HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-07-200260 NOVEMBER 07, 2002 7:00 P.M.
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
PUBLIC HEARING
NOTICE OF COMPLETION OF DRAFT ENVIRONMENTAL
IMPACT STATEMENT FOR EXPRESS MART-REROB, LLC.
A Special Town Board Meeting for a Public Hearing for the Notice of Completion
of Draft Environmental Impact Statement for the Express Mart-ReRob, LLC. was held by
the Town Board of the Town of Cortlandville at the Cortlandville Fire District, 999 Route
13, Cortland, New York, with Supervisor Thorpe presiding.
Members present: Supervisor, Raymond Thorpe
Councilman, Theodore Testa
Councilman, Edwin O'Donnell
Councilman, Ronal Rocco
Councilman, John Pilato
Town Clerk, Karen Q. Snyder
Others present were: Town Attorney, John Folmer; Water & Sewer Sup't Peter
Alteri; Rerob, LLC Attorney, Mike Shafer; Rerob, LLC Consulting Engineer, Jim
Mickham; Mobil Gas Station Manager, John Weisbrodt; Resource Associates
representative, Chuck Feizsli; Whelan and Curry representative, Mike Curry, Petr-All
Petroleum representatives, Pat Hyde and Sara Campbell; Clough, Harbour Associates
representatives, Walter Kalena and Dr. Chris Burns; Cortland County Planning Board
Director, Daniel Dineen; Attorney Richard Van Donsel; Patrick Reidy of Cortland County
Soil & Water Conservation District; John Helgren of the Cortland County Health
Department; Cortland County Legislator, Danny Ross; Town Residents, Lydia Ferro: Sue
Fitts; Chris Wright; Robert Whitney and Ada Cornell; Connie Mack; Marilyn G. Mayer,
Elizabeth Kniffen, and Mike Kniffen;.
Supervisor Thorpe: Goodevening. Can you hear me? Alright. I normally conduct
meetings of this sort, ah, I'm in the position of the photographer who tried to take pictures
at his own wedding. I came here to listen tonight and don't want to be distracted by the
details of running the meeting. So, I prevail upon council, Mr. Folmer, to substitute for me
and to maintain order. He's a much better prominentery than I am so he's ideal for the job.
I would ask people who want to speak to come up to the podium. The acoustics in this
room are not very good, and it's important that we tape record all the testimony and, ah,
we have the equipment here to do it. But, when you use the microphone, don't lay it down
because it'll shatter. Pick it up and make sure it's turned on. I guess it's turned on. Madam
Town Clerk, would you read the :notice.
Town Clerk Snyder: Notice of Completion of Draft Environmental Impact Statement.
This Notice of Completion and Notice of Public Hearing have been prepared in accordance
with Article S of the New York State Environmental Conservation Law. The Lead
Agency, is the Town of Cortlandville Town Board, of the Town of Cortlandville, located
at 15 Terrace Road, Cortland, New York. The project title is Express Mart-Rerob, LLC.
The project description: The construction and operation of an approximately 6,670
square foot Express Mart at the southwest corner of the intersection of State Route 13 and
Lime Hollow Road. In addition to the 6,670 square foot building, the Express Mart will
consist of separate parking areas and driveways for cars, recreational vehicles and tractor
trailers and fueling areas. It vcfill also house a convenience store.
The project location is located in the Town of Cortlandville, in Cortland County, in
the State of New York.
The SEQRA Classification: Unlisted Action, Positive Declaration.
Copies of the Environmental Impact Statement, the EIS: Copies of the Draft
Environmental Impact Statement may be obtained from the Town of Cortlandville Town
Clerk's office, at 3577 Terrace Road.
Notice of Public Hearing Period. Please take notice that the Town of Cortlandville
Town Board deemed the Draft EIS of Express Mart/Rerob "Complete" at its meeting of
August 21', 2002.
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NO v EMBER 07, 2002 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING P AGE 2
Please take further notice, a public hearing regarding the Draft EIS of Express Mart
will take place, this evening, November 7', 2002 before the Town of Cortlandville Town
Board at 7:00 PM at the Cordandville Fire Station, located at 999 Route 13.
This was prepared by Raymond G. Thorpe, Town Supervisor.
.Attorney Eolmer: Good evening. I am not going to try to use that.... If you can't there
are probably people up here who would trade places with you. Ah, the theory here would
be this. This is a process that is continuing and when we finish this evening the additional,
an additional period of time to submit written comments will continue until twelve o'clock
noon on Monday November the 25". If after you leave here this evening you wish to
submit additional material in writing you may do so by directing it to the Town Board
through the Town Clerk's office at 3577 Terrace Road. The format after that will be that
the applicant must then prepare a final statement in which they respond to each and every
substantive comment that is made, either here or in writing between now and November
the 25'. They have a period of up to sixty days to do that. Once that process has been
completed and submitted they Town Board then has thirty days to render its decision with
regard to the environmental issues that have been raised and commented on throughout this
entire process.
The process that we are going to try and utilize tonight is this. First, because one of
the reasons that this is being tape-recorded is because we need a record of what is said so
that we can be sure thatwe have the comments recorded. Both the Town Board needs that
done as does the applicant, because if they have to respond they need to have an accurate
idea of what was said. So, that's why it's being recorded.
In addition to that there have been some written comments that have been submitted
prior to tonight through the Town Clerk's office. Those are available to be inspected at the
Town Clerk's office if you choose to do so. In addition to that there was a couple, there
have been at least two, and there may be more, three or four, letters received over the
course of several months that have been received by the Town Board, which the Board is
going to include in their deliberations as they reach their final decision with regard to the
environmental review.
The process that we are going to try and follow this evening is this. Some of it for
purposes of the record. We're going to ask first for a representative of the applicant to put
on to the record a summary of the steps that they have taken and some comments with
regard to that.. In addition and following that anyone who wishes to speak will be given an
opportunity to do so for as long as you want concerning whatever items you feel are
necessary to be commented on. We will do that kind of by random choice and we'll see
how that goes. So, I think we'll begin by asking the applicant to make the short summary
statement and I suppose Mr. Shafer will be doing that. When your speak it would be
appreciated if we would have your name and your address for the purpose of the record.
Mike, it's yours.
Attorney Shafer: Thanks John. My name is Mike Shafer and I have an office at 127
North Main Street in Cortland, and I do represent Express Mart in this application. The
current application permit. before the Board is an Aquifer Protection Permit application to
develop an Express Mart, convenient store, gas station, and car wash at a site located
southwest corner of Limehollow Load and Route 13 in the Town of Cortlandville.
In August of 2001 the applicant. and the Town reached accord on the final scoping
requirements pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, which we
commonly refer to as SEQRA. That scoping document included among other things water
resources and the risk of contamination to ground water, transportation issues, waste and
odor issues, and the impact on growth and character of the community in the area of the
proposed development.
The property is zoned commercial and it is bordered on the immediate south by
commerical lot, on the west by industrial zoned property, on the north, north of
Limehollow, by additional commercial zoning, and on the east, east of Route 11 by
additional commercial lots. Everyone I think in the room is probably familial- with the site.
It is northwest, excuse me, northeast corner of the former Smith Corona parking lot.
Currently the site is eighty or ninety percent paved blacktop. In November of 2001 Rerob
LLC, doing business as Express Mari, submitted a draft Enviromnental Impact Statement.
to the Town for its consideration. The Town Engineers, Clough, Harbour & Associates, in
conjunction with the Town Board reviewed that. And, on December 18, 2001 the
applicant received a letter from Clough Harbour addressing a number of issues that it felt
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NOVEMBER 07, 2002 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE 3
needed to be incorporated, or more fully discussed, in the draft Environmental Impact
Statement to make that impact statement sufficient for this procedure for the Town to take a
look at it or for interested parties and agencies to review that draft Environmental Impact
Statement.
Supervisor Thorpe: Down here Mr. Shafer.
Attorney Shafer: Members of the engineering and accounting, or excuse me, engineering
and legal representatives for the applicant, folks from Clough Harbour, Mr. Folmer, I can't
remember if we had a Town Board Member... We had a meeting in late December of last
year at the Clough Harbour offices to more fully go through what the Town wanted us to
incorporate and how it should be addressed in the draft Environmental Impact Statement,
again with the goal that it would be relatively understandable and accessible to the public
to review.
Over the next six months the applicant spent a considerable amount of time, mostly
on engineering issues relative to ground water and groundwater safety. Ali, and in July,
specifically on July 26, 2002, Express Mart submitted a revised proposed draft
Environmental Impact Statement. And that was thereafter.... complete. I think the date
was perhaps August 28r' of this year. And all that means is that this it's ready for the public
to take a look at it, ask questions, submit comments, and for the Board to have this public
hearing. The basic development plan would be to construct a new facility on Route
13/1-imehollow site. It's a 2.47 +/- acre site. And, upon completion of that site, Express
Mart would decommission its existing Mobil gas station, ah, which is on the southwest
cornea- of the intersection of McLean Road and Route 281 in Cortlandville, maybe
approximately a mile north of the proposed development site.
Necessary permits for this project, include a petroleum bulk storage permit, which
is mandated under the Cortland County Health District Sanitary Code; a Special Permit for
Use under Section 178.46 of the Town Zoning Ordinance; a Site Plan approval by the
Town Planning Board; Aquifer Protection Permit, which is under the jurisdiction of the
Town Board; various sign permits for variances as might be required; Conditional Permit
for use in the business district. This is an allowable use in the business district, but it has to
be allowed on Conditional Permit and that is another review phase for the application.
And, in a, well an issue that has been discussed on a couple of occasions, the plan
development would include as part of the protective technology to ensure that runoff did
not reach groundwater with any petroleum contamination would be a loyal water separator
system and a discussion of whether or not a SPEDES Permit, which is a permit concerning
discharge of, ah, potentially contaminated materials into the general environment. So that
would be a permit that we would have to look at as well.
The applicant's position throughout this development, and this is going back a
couple of years, but ah, the application has been pending before the Town. We have
worked very closely with the Town Board, with Town Engineers on this matter, with the
Town Planning Board as well. We've been in front of Mr. Dineen's folks over at County
Planning on several occasions. And our goal on behalf of the applicant, and I know that
this is a goal that is shared by Mr. Hyde and is basically concerned with project
development of Express Mart, is that if this gas station/convenient store complex is built,
other municipalities would be able to tell applicants who came to them and said we would
like to build a gas station/convenient store in your municipality, that they could say, "Go
take a look at the one that Express Mart built on the corner of Lime Hollow and Route 13
in Cortlandville, and if you want to build one in our municipality you're going to have to
build it that way."
Um, the draft Environmental Impact Statement has a number of areas of discussion,
and they basically trap that scoping document that we talked about before. There is a full
traffic study from the corner, from the intersection, the single intersection of Route 13 and
281 to the single intersection, which is the old Smith Corona east exit, across from the
Cortlandville Crossing entrance. The conclusion of that full traffic study, which is attached
to the draft Environmental Impact Statement as a separate Appendix I, was that the
proposed development traffic in conjunction with the adjacent development traffic will
have no notable impact on traffic operation in the study area.
Under noise and odor, the issues that were addressed in the draft Environmental
Impact Statement are sections 3.0401 and 3.0402. And, there were very minimal impacts,
but potential impacts for noise and odor. The main mitigation measures were placement of
the building for noise to ensure it was not located so that it would face to the northwest
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where there is some residential development north of Limehollow Road. And also to
ensure that the mechanicals and those items were placed appropriately again to restrict that
impact or lessen that impact. Potential odor issues came with food preparation and
potential waste storage on the facility site. The mitigation measures there were to ensure
that we had first of all, excellent maintenance of the site, that we not allow refuse and those
sorts of things to accumulate, that we have appropriate waste disposal facilities and storage
containers, and again, some of the siting issues to ensure thatany food orders would not be
flowing northwest towards the residential areas. I would note that just immediately to the
north of this site is a substantial restaurant operation, which I don't believe has had any
significant complaints from the residential neighborhood about food odor. I can'tcomment
about their garbage maintenance.
Growth and character of the community. Again, this was identified as a small
potential issue. The site is right in the middle of one of the most heavily developed
commercial areas in Cortland County. It has in fact become the business district of the
County; some planning for downtown Cortland district in many respects. The primary
focus of the draft Environmental Impact Statement, and I know the primary concern of all
of the boards that we have dealt with, and the primary concern of the applicant, is the
discussion of... Is that alright Ron?
Councilman Rocco: I'm sorry, but you may have to use the mic because the chill is
working over here....
Attorney Shafer: Okay. The primary focus of the draft Environmental Impact Statement
is...
Supervisor Thorpe: Turn it up. Sorry.
Attorney Shafer:... is the issue of insuring that if the gas station/convenient store is built
that we not have contamination of the ground water. This site is within the primary aquifer
protection zone for the Town of Cortlandville and it is located over a sole site, excuse me a
sole source aquifer for the Town of Cortlandville and for a portion of the City of Cortland.
The areas that are discussed in the Environmental Impact Statement include appropriate
measures during the construction phase. That's for any storage of petroleum products on
site or equipment and materials, a discussion of operational above ground site spills. And,
that's if you think aboutgoing to a gas station and you're filling your car and you don't
completely drain the hose before you remove your nozzle from the car and you have a few
drops of petroleum product, gasoline, that spills on the side of your car and down on the
pavement. This is a primary concern for people that don't completely put the oil in their oil
intake and they spill some on the ground.
So, there's a significant. discussion of how that waste product could be migrating off
site or to the perimeters of the site and how that should be mitigated. We also have a
discussion in there concerning the technology for the storage tanks, themselves; the lines
that access the storage tanks to the dispensers, and the dispensers themselves; the
monitoring systems that would be employed. There is also significant component of the
draft. Environmental Impact Statement, which specifically addresses the issue of what are
the current mechanics and characteristics of the aquifer as it flows through this portion of
the Town of Cortlandville, Cortland County. And, how would that impact the situation if
there was a catastrophic discharge of petroleum product on this site. And as part of that
analysis, the applicant did engage the services of James Mickham, who's here tonight.
And, he put together Appendix DD to the impact statement, a model using the scenario of a
catastrophic spilled petroleum product where we vision 19,000 gallons of gasoline being
discharged, and being discharged basically directly to the aquifer, a spill on the site that
went into a dry well and went down right into the ground. He also in this scenario
indicates that this spill occurs and it's not known, it's not discovered, not detected, and it is
unremediated. Nothing is done to recover the spilled petroleum product. And that
modeling discusses what the potential impact would be to the well site to the Town of
Cortlandville and the City of Cortland.
Mr. Mickham's conclusions are that even under that worst case scenario, an
undetected, unremediated, catastrophic spill of 19,000 gallons of gasoline that wentright
into the aquifer, what would be the impact at the well sites, for example at Terrace Road.
And, his conclusions were that the most, I guess dangerous component of gasoline in a
spill such as this would be a benzene byproduct. And his modeling indicated that the level
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NOVEMBER 07, 2002 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE 5
of benzene, I think it was of two years, and I'm not sure you'd have to look at the specific
document, at the contribution site of the well would not exceed the New York State limit
for benzene in drinking water. Now, if that was the way we left it I don't think anybody
would be happy with that. Nobody wants to have any benzene at the site for the well at
Terrace Road. That's why we used a worst case scenario, because nobody is going to lose
19,000 gallons of gasoline and not have some knowledge of that spill taking place.
Another significant impact of the draft Environmental Impact Statement is the
mitigation or protection components that would be built into the design of the gas station.
Obviously things have changed over the years of the technology for the tanks; the storage
tanks themselves; how gasoline is transported from a storage tank to a dispenser; how it's
dispensed. The Board has received in the past, and there are exhibits attached to the draft
Environmental Impact Statement with all the technical data concerning the mechanics that
would be employed at this site and including the detection systems that would be
employed. This is a continuous detection, leak detection system that is employed. And
Mr. Hyde has discussed with the Board in significant detail in the past how it's monitored;
how it's controlled; what happens if there is a spill; what the response time is; how that
takes place.
The goal, however, of the applicant, and I think the tenor of the draft of the
Environmental Impact Statement is that everything would be done first on a preventative
status to make sure that we didn't have a situation where we were going to have any
significant spill that could potentially contaminate the environment including the ground
water. As we have noted, I think candidly, throughout this application process none of us
could assure you or the Board with one hundred percent accuracy that there would never
be a spill of petroleum products. We live in a world where people make mistakes, and
people do things that can cause problems. The goal, however, is to ensure that any project
that is allowed to proceed has the least possible risk, and that that risk is a manageable risk
and a risk that is not going to be a significant risk to the contamination of ground water.
I am going to sit down and shut up now for a minute. I know there will be a lot of
other comments. Thank you.
Attorney Folmer: Thank you Mike. Who would like to start? Who wants to make a
comment of any sort with regard to this project? That's what we're here for, and we invite,
encourage, need, your comments and your input.
Yes Ma'am. Would you... You were not here at the beginning and that's alright,
but we would to have you come up here so that we can get your comments on tape and we
have an accurate record of what is being asked and said. We would like you to identify
yourself by your name and your address if you would. And, thank you for being first.
Sue Fitts, 801 Pheasant Run: I'm Sue Fitts and I am very much opposed to this. There
is no reason that this has to be located over the aquifer when they could go, I believe on
the other side of Monarch, they could locate their gas station without a problem, or the
other side of Groton Avenue, and it wouldn't be a problem affecting the aquifer. I think it's
going to set a precedent, and this is why I'm against it. Because we'll be gasoline alley
right over our aquifer. And it's fine if there's not going to be a leak because they've used
this, and they've used that, but he's right. We're all human and there are problems and it's
us who are going to pay for it. We are the ones that are going to pay for it when there is a
problem. And then the taxpayers and everybody's going to be unhappy. I have not talked
to one person that is in favor of this. Unfortunately not everyone always shows up at the
meetings because they are busy, but that's why we have representatives and their vote
against it, I hope, will be enough to represent the people, because the people don't want it.
There are other areas. And it isn't that we don't want the gas station, we just don't want it
right over our aquifer. We've already had problems and we should have learned from
that. That's all I have to say.
Councilman Rocco: Sue, where do you live?
Sue Fitts: On Pheasant Run where we've already been polluted and we know what it
feels like.
Attorney Folmer: Thank you Ma'am. Chris...
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NOVEMBER 07, 2002 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING i AGE b
Chris Wright, 8 Pheasant Run: I'm with Sue too and I live on Pheasant Run and we
have had water problems with, before.
Attorney Folmer: Chris I know who you are but...
Chris Wright: Chris Wright.
Attorney Folmer: Thank you.
® Chris Wright:... and we live on Pheasant Run and we have had water problems with the
water situation there with the Smith Corona dump. And having a station put on that corner,
especially with the traffic control there is awful. We go out of there everyday to go to our
jobs. That corner is a disgrace as it is now with Walmart across the street. You guys go to
any gas station here in Cortland and it's like dodge ball trying to get in and out of any gas
station here in this County. You put something like that on thirteen, on that corner, and you
just try to go into McDonald's on thirteen, how many accidents have been there? How
many accidents coming out of Walmart? You're going to put a gas station on that corner
which is even going to be worse. So I'm fairly, it's fairly safe to say, I've dealt with being
on the road for many years selling to convenient stores. I know what the impact of these
places do. They can talk a good story but I know what they do. Unfortunately if we allow
this we're crazy. This is our opinion as residents of that area. Thank you.
Attorney Folmer: Thank you Chris.
Lydia Ferro, 710 McLean Road: I am Lydia Ferro and I live at 710 McLean Road. I
am here to represent my neighborhood and I am speaking for a number of people. Um, I
tried to obtain, or I did obtain the SEQRA document. I also obtained a copy of the
Clough, Harbour and Associates recommendations. They, after reviewing these, with the
help of a consultant we all became more concerned. We are concerned about the traffic
we're concerned about the effects it will have on the environment. We are concerned
about our neighborhoods. We take pride in our neighborhoods and it seems like everyone
has documented about the traffic, they've documented about what might happen, what
might not happen. But is seems like no one is taking into consideration that we're residents
and we're paying taxes in this area also. We accept the fact that businesses are important
but I agree with the other two comments. This is a very serious situation and I hope that
you will take great measures in your decision. We're um... I can't express to you the
effect that we feel that your decision will have on all of us. Remember clean air and clean
water is important to all of us. Thank you.
Marilyn Mayer, 4074 Highland Road: I'm Marilyn Mayer and I live at. 4074 Highland
Road and I am here representing my Husband Mike Kniffen and my daughter Elizabeth
Kniffen, and we would just like to say that we are one hundred percent against this
operation. As Sue said, it is being built on top of an aquifer in a water poor world, where
fresh water is becoming increasingly hard to come by. Wily are we giving up a treasure?
I just don't get it. Because there is no way, in my opinion, that you can prevent accidents.
If a semi unloading gasoline is hit by another car, where is that all going to go? It is going
to get all washed down and everything eventually ends up in the ground. You can't
guarantee it. And if you can't, then I don't feel we should have it. For the sake of the
future of our children, I think we need to protect the clean water that we have in Cortland.
As an example I teach in Ithaca. I've had a number of friends who are taking
courses at SUNY Cortland. They bring their- water bottle, empty from Ithaca, fill it up at
the SUNY Cortland campus because they know how good the water is. It's free, its there.
Why are we trying to throw it away?
I also don't see this as anything that's going to benefit our community. You go past
the gas stations, half the time they're empty. Why do we need that many more? I don't
have a problem getting gas in Cortland. I just see this as a lose -lose situation. You're
talking about how this area has surplanted the downtown area, I find that really sad. We
should be putting money into our downtown area instead of siphoning money out of it.
And also, talking about the traffic pattern. Do you know how long you have to wait. at the
intersection by Pall Trinity where 281 meets McLean Road? You try going there at 5:00.
(O ( NOVEMBER 07, 2002 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE 7
There's a backup and you can easily wait ten minutes. Now granted, that's not a big deal if
you're talking about big city driving, but, you know, I think we all live in a small town like
this because we like the small town atmosphere. If we are going to add that many gas
stations, where are all those trucks, RUV's, all those cars, where are they going to be
going? Where are they going to go after they pick up, get this gasoline? I just don't see us
being able to handle that kind of traffic. It's just going to destroy the whole area. So, I
really plead with you to think about the future because fresh water is hard to come by.
Thank you.
Attorney Folmer: We have... yes sir.
David Berger, Crestwood Court: I'm David Berger and I live at Crestwood Court. I
agree with all the objections to this. I also do environmental research, sponsored by the
Great Lakes Research Consortium, so I know about the problems of limited water and the
effect it can have on people's behavior and health. The only thing that I can add is if you
can't guarantee, absolutely guarantee that water won't sometime be polluted or destroyed,
then you've got to find a way to redo the aquifer. You know, ask God to port another
aquifer next to it. And if you can't do that or build a pipeline that brings us water from
some other source, which it will happen, then .... And I cannot understand why, out of all
places, we would want to build it over an aquifer. It's ridiculous.
Attorney Folmer: Thank you sir. Who's next. We have a lot of people here.
Supervisor Thorpe: Now's the time.
Attorney Folmer: And this is the opportunity.
David Berger: Let's here someone speaking in favor of it}
Attorney Folmer: Are we done? Is this...
Sue Fitts: I think he posed a good question, because there might be some people who are
shy and don't want to speak publicly. Public speaking is a great fear for many people, but
the fact that nobody raised their hand when you said, "lets hear from the people who are in
favor of it," I think speaks volumes.
Attorney Folmer: I think that part of the reason that the written comment period is
extended until November the 25" is to deal with that very concern. There certainly are
folks who don't want to get up here. Not because they are afraid to say what they want to
say, but it's just not there thing to talk in front of a group of people. And I understand that,
but we want to have this opportunity to hear what people have to say if they choose to do
so. We have lots of time.
Sue Fitts: I will say that I did write a letter to Rerob a long time ago when this all started
and asked them why they would want to jeopardize the aquifer of so many people. They
never even responded to my letter and I'm one of their customer's at their Mobil station. I
get my car washed there. But, you know, that will be ending because they just don't care
about me as an individual when I write and ask them a question. And it was a decent letter
and they never responded in any way.
Attorney Folmer: Sir.
David Berger: Why can't they go down the road further? What's the reason for building
it there rather than a mile down the road where there is no aquifer?
Attorney Folmer: Okay. That is to my way of thinking a substantive comment that will
have to be addressed in the final statement. I think that's a legitimate question that should
be asked. And I'm not... I'm not trying to pre -judge what goes on in the decision making
process because I'm not the one that makes that decision. But. I think the comments that
have to be responded to by the applicant as the result of what we hear tonight, are those
that are of a substantive nature. And that certainly would be one I would think. Part of
that is dealt with in the study, but the study deals with it in one aspect, and this question
may be answered in yet another. So that, I think, is something Mr. Shafer and his clients
will deal with.
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Chris Wright: I just think the traffic pattern is enough to make.... Why not take it down
further? It would be easier to get in and out of the station, instead of going across four
lanes compared to two....
Attorney Folmer: Anyone else? Yes Ma'am.
Lydia Ferro: I may be mistaken, but in the Clough Harbour document I read that the, the
traffic survey was done when they did Walmart and that the, the survey, including the gas
station traffic was not included. Is that true?
Attorney Folmer: I can't answer that but we have some folks from Clough Harbour who
perhaps can. Where are they? Where'll they go here?
Walt Kalena: Our traffic engineer is not here tonight, so....
Attorney Folmer: Again, that is a substantive issue that we should make note of, and we
should get a response both from the applicant and from Clough Harbour. Lydia, I will
have to admit to you that I have read through parts of this. I just can't recall that particular
piece of information.
Lydia Ferro: I'm just asking....
Attorney Folmer: I'm not quarreling with you, I just don't recall it.
Sue Fitts, Pheasant Run: About those signatures that I got early on against this....
Attorney Folmer: Again, at the beginning we indicated that any materials that we have
received from the very beginning to today, and through November the 25', will be part of
the record put together when the Board makes its review of this and its final determinations
on the permits that Mr. Shafer has identified.
Councilman Rocco: So, if someone wanted to submit some comments in writing
because they didn't wish to speak, they should send those comments to...
Attorney Folmer: Again, as I said at the beginning, written comments can be directed to
the Board at, through the Town Clerk's office, 3577 Terrace Road. And, they will be
received and added to the record through Monday, at noon, the 25" of November.
Somebody asked me if I would consider shortening that period to Friday the 22"d and I
said no, because I thought maybe the weekend might give you a chance, another, to sit
back and think about it.
Yes sir.
Mike Kniffen, 4074 Highland Road: Orly name is Mike Kniffen. I live at 4074
Highland Road. I think one of the things that concerns me is the fact that the area we're
talking about is already well developed. And, I'm concerned about what's happening in
that area. I see so much acres of asphalt; new buildings going up; we have a new
restaurantright now. And, so I'm really worried about that. area and it's ability to
accommodate any more structure. And, it does seem to me, I agree with all of the
speakers, it just seems to me to lie in the face of logic to place a gas station over an aquifer.
I mean it would go down as one of the most ridiculous ideas I think we've ever heard of.
So, I want to be very, very careful here. I appreciate all of the attempts that have
been made for safety, the new technology, etcetera. But, human error will intervene. And I
don't, we just can't afford this. We can't afford it. I am totally against it, and I supportall
the speakers that have voted against this with what they've had to say. So, thank you.
Attorney Folmer: Anyone else? Are you sure?
Marilyn Mayer: Can I justadd one? It's, this proposal. This proposal is going to be next
to our nature preserve. I just don't get it. You know, I mean, Lime Hollow, they're trying
to expand. It.'s a wonderful place. Many children go there. I mean, we've gone there as a
family .... and then....of the area you want to have this silly gas station. I think we would
bring in a lot more money by promoting the Lime Hollow Nature Center and expanding
the nature in the area than you would by bringing in this gas station.
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NO'VEMBER 07, 2002 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE 9
Attorney Folmer: Yes sir.
David Berger: One of the benefits that we listed last time we had a meeting like this was
that the existing gas station is not as well protected and that will close, and this would be a
much better alternative.
Attorney Folmer: That's correct. That was said.
David Berger: If that's really so dangerous it. should close anyway. In my opinion. If
it's not protected and also endangers the aquifer, then why would we let it happen? Are
we waiting for a disaster and then do something about it?
Attorney Folmer: Well, there are a variety of reasons that deal with that situation. There
are a variety of things that deal with whether or not that, why that's there and why that's
there, and what's being done with it.. Anyone else?
Lydia Ferro: I have another question.
Attorney Folmer: Yes.
Lydia Ferro: In the .... form, the, ah, the, ah... number eleven says that the project site
containing any species of plant or animal life if identified as threatened or endangered.
And the applicant says no. The project engineer obviously said this. But they did not give
comments. They only listed the U.S. Department of Fish and Wildlife Service, and the
DEC Fish and Wildlife Service. My question is, they just listed them. They, they're, I
couldn't find any documentation as to what .... like what the recommendations were. They
just listed these organizations but there was no further explanations.
Attorney Folmer: I think Mike, the question is, in the SEQRA review form it asks about
endangered species and you're familiar with that inquiry. According to the documentation
there is a notation that the DEC and the Department of Fish and Wildlife were. They're
listed but there is no documentation in the report indicating that they had been contacted
and had communicated that there were no endangered species being affected by this
project. I think that's the question that Ms. Ferro was asking.
Attorney Shafer: Can I ask Ms. Ferro a question?
Attorney Folmer: Sure.
Attorney Shafer: Are you familiar with, or thinking that there might be some major
species of concern?
Lydia Ferro: No, but the area would be the fish and wildlife preserve that we have....
Attorney Shafer: But not on the site.
Lydia Ferro: No, not on the immediate site.... It's in the area. You know it's in the
area.... And how about Otter Creek?
Attorney Folmer: Those again are issues that are going to be commented on when we
get the final statement.
Lydia Ferro: Well how aboutwildlife, how about the.... how about the wildlife in the
area?
Attorney Folmer: I think what the applicant needs to do is to consider fish and wildlife
and DEC, and provide in their final statement documentation to deal with that comment.
That's the purpose of having the final Environmental Impact Statement after we've received
all of the comments that the Board will receive.
Anybody else? I haven't heard from my young friend over here who doesn't
like.... any more than I do. Glad you came. Anyone else? Please?
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NO v EMBER 07, 2002 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE Ill
Chris Wright: I assume that this station is going to be open 24/7.
Attorney Shafer: Yes.
Chris Wright: So that means you're also talking about tractor trailers being parked there
all night, every night, running. I'm going to tell you that.... Once in a while, my house
backs rights up to the area where you're talking about. Once in a while I hear a tractor
trailer at McDonald's or something like that. That's one tractor trailer dropping off a load.
I'm not... I can deal with that. What I can't deal with are tractor trailers being there 24/7... .
because I've been at trailer stops before when I was down in Fort Drum and these drivers
are there, and they're around all night long.
Marilyn Mayer: And those tractor trailers that use those jake brakes. You can here those
a mile away they're so loud.
Chris Wright: Well, you know, I can understand. Yeah, you're right. But I'm more
concerned about the 24/7 that you're going to have trailers there all night long.
Marilyn Mayer:....
Chris Wright: It's going to be a big mistake.
Marilyn Mayer: Yeah. And, why wouldn't you be better off to locate that closer to 81?
Because, it would be a lot....
Chris Wright: Well, even if you headed down 13 where there isn't a lot of residential
areas. That wouldn't hurt us. We've got a nice area over here.
Attorney Folmer: I think though that we have now raised, we have raised the issue of
why this location as opposed to one further south on Route 13 or closer to Route 81. We
don't need to cue them like that. We know that that is a comment that needs to be
addressed and needs to be commented upon. And I am sure that the applicant will be back
to deal with that issue. And if he doesn't, or if it doesn't, I apologize for not being
politically correct. If it does not deal with it appropriately the Board will take that into
consideration.
Yes Mr. Berger.
David Berger: I imagine that the answer is that it's for a good business site. But the
question is does that override the environmental concerns....
Attorney Folmer: Anyone else?
Mike Kniffen: The bottom line statement is the quality of life....
Attorney Folmer: Anything else? Mr. Supervisor, I would suggest then that we close
the hearing.
Supervisor Thorpe: As long as no one else wants to speak, I'll declare the hearing
closed.
Attorney Folmer: Willi thanks for coming. And please, do not over look the
opportunity to submit additional written comment if you choose to do so. That's
important..
Councilman O'Donnell: I would like to say too, if you've got neighbors that couldn't
make it tonight who would like to submit written comments, we'd like those too.
Attorney Folmer: Yes. There is no requirement that you be here to submit a written
comment. If you are not here ... If you have neighbors that wish to submit comments they
are perfectly willing and free to do so. The fact that you may not have been able to be at
this meeting does not preclude you submitting written comments prior to November the
25'h.
Sir?
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iv O vTEMBER 07, 2002 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE i l
Chris White: I know you told us all this before, but can you.... that it's still open for
written comments in the newspaper or something?
Attorney Folmer: My friend Jill sits right here. And there's somebody here with a
microphone that says 101.5. Hopefully we will be able to get something in the newspaper
that indicates that the comment period is open until November the 25".
Marilyn Mayer: Most people I spoke with thought that it was over and that the gas
station wasn't going in. ....that it had been voted down and didn't realize that it was an
ongoing thing.
Attorney Folmer: I think some of the confusion arises because there are steps in the
process and when the board determines, for example, that the draft Environmental Impact
Statement was not complete, if you don't know the process you're apt to think that's the
end of it. What that merely does is just say, "No, you've got to do some more homework
to get this thing on to the next stage."
Marilyn Mayer: It would probably be helpful if it was written that way....
Attorney Folmer: The newlywed reporter from the Cortland Standard will see to that.
Mike Kniffen: Who makes the final decision? The Board?
Attorney Folmer: The Board has to make a determination eventually as to the SEQRA
review and then it has to decide whether or not it will issue the Aquifer Protection Permit
itself. And, without doubt, the opportunity... when the Board gets to a point where they
are going to make that decision we will certainly publicize that event as well. It's notour
intention to do this behind a closed door.
Again, thank you all for coming.
The Special Town Board Meeting for Rerob, LLC was adj ourned at 7:45 p.m.
W
tfully Submitted,
Q. Snyder
Town Clerk
Town of Cortlandville
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