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HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-03-2006MARCH 03, 2006 5:00 P.M. CONTINUTATION OF PUBLIC HEARING DRAFT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT WAL-MART SUPERCENTER NYS ROUTE 13 TAX MAP # 105.00-01-22.211 The continuation of the Public Hearing concerning the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (Draft EIS) on the proposed Wal-Mart Supercenter was held by the Town Board of the Town of Cortlandville at the Cortlandville Fire Station, 999 NYS Route 13, Cortland, New York. The application is by APD Engineering, PLLC for a planned unit development for the construction of two future outparcels and a Wal-Mart Supercenter consisting of a single story building containing approximately 205,000 square feet of floor area with paved parking, access driveways, utilities and storm water facilities to support the proposed project, to be located at the corner of Route 13 and Bennie Road in the Town of Cortlandville, Cortland County, New York, and for the purpose of hearing public comments on the Draft EIS. The property is owned by Homer C. Gutchess, tax map # 105.00-01-22.211. Members present: Supervisor, Richard Tupper Councilman, Theodore Testa Councilman, Edwin O'Donnell Councilman, Ronal Rocco Councilman, John Proud Town Clerk, Karen Q. Snyder, RMC Others present were: Town Attorney, John Folmer; Highway Sup't. Carl Bush and wife, Karen Bush; Planning Board Members, Nick Renzi and James Bugh; Scott Smith from Clough Harbour & Associates LLP; Representatives of C.A.P.E.: Robert Rhodes, Norma Rhodes, Richanna Patrick, Jan Thomsen, Catherine D. Smith, Grace Meddaugh, Ron Powell, Arnold Talentino, Andrea Rankin, Jamie Dangler, Hilary Penney, Christyann Maxfield, Bonnie Carlson; Jim Mulherin, 3262 Coventry Ln., Cortlandville; Roger and Dorothy Thornton, 238 McLean Rd., Cortlandville; Corey Preston, News Reporter for the Cortland Standard; Sandra Walls, 721 Lime Hollow Rd., Cortlandville; Beverly Sherman, Cortland; Ernest M. Dodge, 3926 Highland Rd., Cortlandville; Barbara Tupper, 3741 Lyncort Dr., Cortlandville; David Yaman, 3924 Perris Rd. Cortland; Roger Orlandini; Joseph and Nancy Governali, 3316 Fairway Heights, Cortlandville; Melissa L.P. Chan, 3285 Coventry Ln., Cortlandville; Holly Greer, 100 N. Main St., Cortland; Richard and Theresa Henry, 4046 Collegeview Dr., Cortlandville; Richard Buttny, 2298 Carson Rd., Virgil; Kay Breed, 3301 Gracie Rd., Cortlandville; Sally MacGregor, 1425 E. River Rd., Cortlanvdille; Fred Wilbur; Anne Vittoria, SUNY Cortland; Colleen Kattau, 16 James St., Cortland; M.N.,12 Frederick St., Cortland (name could not be deciphered); Carol Navarro, 3097 Gracie Rd., Cortlandville; Marie Kautz, 3283 Walden Oaks Blvd., Cortlandville; Tom Pasquarello, 743 Sleepy Hollow Rd., Cortlandville; Marilyn Mayer, 4074 Highland Rd., Cortlandville; Ken Woodman, Abdallah Ave., Cortlandville. VOLUME III STATE OF NEW YORK COUNTY OF CORTLAND TOWN OF CORTLANDVILLE ------------------------------------------x In the Matter of PROPOSED WALMART SUPERCENTER, ------------------------------------------x Public Hearing on the Draft Environmental Impact Statement continued on March 3, 2006, at 5:00 p.m. at the Town of Cortlandville Fire Station, 999 NYS 13, New York, before Jennifer A. Gofkowski, Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of New York. APPEARANCES For Wal-Mart: HARTER, SECREST & EMERY, LLP Attorneys at Law 1600 Bausch & Lomb Place Rochester, New York 14604-2711 BY: KELLY A. PRONTI, ESQ. MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 2 PROCEEDING ATTORNEY FOLMER: We hope that you will bear in mind that at the end of this evening's session the Board does plan to adjourn the public hearing. The public comment period will remain open, I'm going to suggest, until the 15th of March at 5:00 in the afternoon. And, hopefully, what you are going to hear tonight is not going to be purely repetitive but will be, perhaps, new and we hope that it will be relatively brief so that the people that have signed up to speak -- and there are 15 or 16 -- will all have a chance to do that, plus two people at least who indicated that they would like to be added to the list. We're going to start with the list to begin with. The first person on the list as of last night is Kay Breed. KAY BREED: I'm Kay Breed. I live on Gracie Road. I'm the legislative representative in District 13. I'm here tonight on my own behalf. But I did have remarks from the people when I was campaigning. Many people were -- I would say that the division was far more in support of Walmart than against it, even given discussions about the aquifer. I'd like to thank the Town Board for extending the hearing so that we do get a chance to speak. I respect that CAPE has gone to great lengths and the attorney and hydrologist and the other experts. I would like to compare that with what happens in a trial. Defense hires qualified experts to support their client's interest while the prosecution also hires qualified experts which will support their position. These experts may all be qualified in their fields, but who determines which is the best qualified, which one is right or which one may be slightly off the mark, so to speak, or bending their opinion to fit a circumstance? I feel that this is a case with the DEIS presented by Walmart. CAPE feels that their experts are correct and the USGS is wrong. I tend to put a bit more credence in the USGS but others may not. Another interesting point is that the people in Walden Oaks have properties which are located on a hill, meaning that they have pesticides, herbicides, waste that they may produce will also run downhill in the aquifer. They have roads and driveways which also may or may not use salt for the icing of the golf course could produce waste that flows into the aquifer for topical applications to care for course. The more houses that are added on the hill the more possibility from pollution of them, as well. And they may have topical on them. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I think it's great that we have Walden Oaks and I think it's a beautiful housing development. I'm just pointing that there are some — that some of their arguments may be slanted toward their own view. We didn't have to look at them up on the hill at that point, either, and it did create more congestion just from their traffic, as well. When I first moved here, there were very few people on Bennie Road. That entrance and exit out here on 13 was not used nearly as much as it is now. We already have a Walmart which has been here since 1992. And any stores that may have been pushed out of business I think would have gone out a long time ago. Cortland has developed a lot more specialized shops that carry products and specialty items that people don't even go to Walmart to purchase. They're for more distinctive and specialty items and I think that we need to be very cognizant that Cortland County is not a wealthy county. We do have a lot of people on public assistance; we do have a lot of senior citizens on fixed incomes. Those people need a place to shop where they can afford products where they can afford to live here. They aren't all wealthy. We can't afford big homes. They can't afford -- some of them can't even afford heat for their apartments. I speak from authority because my parents have a hard time meeting their bills and they're retired on a fixed income and they can't afford to shop at a lot of other places, either. I've spoken to one of -- one other point. Since Walmart came in 1992, we have had a lot of other places come in out here that might not have otherwise been here. There are two banks, the Applebee's, the Ace Hardware, Aldi's. We've had the big conversion of the Smith Corona building with a lot of businesses coming into one place which was an empty building for some time. I've spoken with many Walmart employees, both current and former, and I have yet to find any that were dissatisfied or felt that they've been discriminated against, yet speakers in these meetings are indicating that many of these people are not insured and/or on social services. I would like to know what comparisons have been made on a local level with local employers to determine how many of them employees require some level of social services and the Medicaid benefits because I know for a fact there are several. And what are those percentages? When all of the statics were being recited regarding the wages, health coverage and other information, was any information and any comparison given reporting our local average wages for cashiers and retail clerks, particularly in the smaller businesses in Cortland, or were the statistic numbers skewed in an attempt to make Walmart look like the evil empire? How many 1 1 �J MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 3 local employers offer health benefits? What is the cost to the employee for that coverage? What is their deductible? What are their co -pays? I know for a fact that some employers in our area offer health insurance, but the cost to the employee is 60 to 80 percent of the monthly premium and that the deductibles are applied, 2500 for an individual employee with co -pays ranging from 10 dollars for generic to 50 for name brand. I know this because I've had this type of coverage from two previous employers. I'm not speaking from not having any knowledge of it. Another factor that can skew numbers, how many employees an employer uses that are part time by choice. A mother who only wants to work a few hours a day while her children are in school or a retired senior who only wants to keep busy and is already on Medicare and others who may be covered by their spouses insurance by their own choice. As for the decreasing the number of people on social services, what about those who actually might find one of the new jobs created by Walmart and thereby reduce their reliance on public assistance and that would actually save us money? As for the tax rates that Mr. Renzi criticized as being incorrect, I know that those were the rates in effect for 2005 while the DEIS was being developed. I must say that they should have been changed, but I can also guarantee that those rates won't remain the same in the coming years. Based on my participation in ad planning and environment committee and the legislature, the Social Services Committee and the Legislature, Budget and Finance, there's no way that the tax rates are going to remain the same so there will be increases; there will be increased costs for the County, as well, and the towns. And mentioning sales tax, the sales -tax negotiations are coming up for the County, City and towns to discuss. The last negotiation ended up in the Town's share potentially being reduced by quite a bit. We don't know what's going to happen with those negotiations. And, technically, the County can take the whole thing for itself if it wants to. I doubt that it would ever do that, but there are potentials for that to happen. The city can take their portion and the County can hold the rest. So really what I'm saying is, I don't know that the -- all of the aquifer facts are firm on either side. I think that any measures to abate any spills will be done as good as they can. I don't think that we're ever guaranteed anything in life. We have hazardous waste transported through our county. We have salt trucks on the road every day. Last year a salt truck tipped over on Lime Hollow Road probably 500 feet from my home. There's now a huge patch where there are no trees and everything is brown. So I don't think you can guarantee that we will never have pollution from anything. And as for the liner that's going to be in the -- their abatement system, our landfill has a liner. There's no guarantee in the world that that liner won't ever leak, either but you have to do sometimes things that will do their best to protect us, but I think that we need to be cognizant that there are a lot of factors involved and it's not just the aquifer and it's not the jobs and it's not just the taxes. We have to consider everything, but I still think that the Super Walmart is not going to be detrimental to our economic development and I think it could still draw more and if the Lowe's goes in that's also going to produce jobs that will also help our economic development and our tax base. And if they draw people in from other areas to take those jobs, it can also increase our tax base on them purchasing new homes which might be constructed. I think that we need to be aware that the aquifer has been here for a very long time, that a lot of us have homes with septic systems that are not on public water and sewer and my water isn't polluted; my water tastes better than city water, and I have a septic system. So it all runs into the aquifer. Just -- I'm just saying, I think we need to be aware that there are a lot of other things to be considered here. Thank you. ATTORNEY FOLMER: Paul Long, perhaps. Paul Long. Norman Triggerhoff [phonetic]. Norman Triggerhoff. I know she's here, Sally McGreggor. SALLY McGREGGOR: Am I misunderstanding something, we're only supposed to talk about the DEIS? Is that what you're saying tonight? ATTORNEY FOLMER: That's the purpose of this meeting. SALLY McGREGGOR: Everybody else has had a chance to speak and I've stood here for three nights waiting to speak, now I can only speak on DEIS? MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 4 ATTORNEY FOLMER: It's your turn. SALLY McGREGGOR: Excuse me? ATTORNEY FOLMER: Come and speak. SALLY McGREGGOR: My name is Sally McGreggor. I've lived in the Cortland area. I've lived in Homer for 50-some years. I am 58 years old. I lived in Cortlandville for eight years. I live on East River Road; 1425 East River Road in Cortlandville on the river. On Tioughnioga River, and if I'm here to talk about pollution, let's talk about pollution. Let's clean up the Tioughnioga River; it's terrible. What I'm hearing here is and I'm not — I don't know anything about this DEIS thing and I -- you can laugh, you can do whatever you want to do in the audience which I'm appalled of people that I've seen laugh in the last three nights. To me, it's a serious matter. What I want to say is, is I went to Walmart because I didn't have a job. I left teaching school because you couldn't hug kids, the principal wouldn't allow me to hug my learning disability kids. So I ended up, anyway, going to Walmart and I've heard a lot of things about Walmart that I'm very, very upset with in the last three nights and that I read the paper. The people in Cortland Walmart -- I'm speaking for Cortland Walmart. The people in Cortland Walmart, they were a family. We were a family. We still are a family. I no longer work there. I'm not speaking for Walmart. I'm speaking for myself and I do know the facts about the Cortlandville Walmart. I have watched Cortland lose its industry since I was a little girl when Wickwire Brothers lost. My father lost 30 years of employment; he worked for Chet Wickwire and he lost everything. He had nothing. They didn't have what Walmart has. They didn't have stocks; they didn't have 401(k)s; they didn't have what Walmart has. And I'm just appalled with the community -- with our community. We need jobs here; we need industry, whatever we need, but we need jobs in Cortland County. You know, what is the matter with you people? It's all I hear is "Walmart." What if it was any other store? Let Walgreens come in. We've let everything -- you don't need to clap for me, either, because I'm not working for Walmart. We've let all these other people come in. We need another drug store. We need jobs. It boils down to jobs. And everybody at Walmart was not on "Medicaid" or "food stamps." I want to say one more thing. Have any .of you ever, any of you, needed a job? I did. Walmart hired me. They hired me twice. I quit for them twice. The third time that I quit for them was because of health reasons and because my daughter chose to not raise her daughter so I'm raising her daughter, my granddaughter. And I had a tough time leaving Walmart, a real tough time. I cried when I left Walmart because I enjoyed it. On a lighter note, you know, my husband and I go shopping out there and he wants to know where the black hole in Walmart is because I seem to fall in it. And we need some humor in our lives. And we go to Florida and I have to stop at every state in Florida to the Walmart center, otherwise my husband says I get Walmart withdrawals and I guess I do. But I enjoy shopping there. I walk out here and the people greet you. Little Norma is a little old lady that's had a heart attack; she's had all kinds of physical problems, but she's still working there. She loves to get a hug from my husband every time he walks in. These are real people you're talking about. And I am very, very sad that people have had to -- to put down the people in Walmart. I'm very sad. Yes, Walmart has done some unfair things, I'm sure. My husband was a corrections officer for 30 years. Do you want me to start telling you about the prison system in New York State? I don't think so. Anywhere you work, I don't care where it is, you're gonna have problems. You know, we're not living -- you're not living in a real world here, and I've had to learn how to live in the real world. And whatever you people decide, it's your choice, we've had drinking water. God's gonna provide us with drinking water, I believe that. And I just -- I don't know. You know, Walmart's gonna create another 200 jobs; Lowe's is going to create a couple hundreds if they come in. We're supposed to have four or five restaurants that are going to come in to create jobs. We need people coming in to our community to help us out. We need that. And when they were talking about some Walmart in Chicago, yes, like I said, Walmart makes mistakes. Don't you? I do. And I learn by those mistakes, I hope. Sometimes I don't and I have to repeat them, but I try to learn by them. And, I don't know, I'm just very, very sad with the community in this — this community, because we need Walmarts and Kmarts and any other stores that can come in here for jobs, for 1 1 1 Mal MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 5 our kids, and if anybody can work at Walmart or any other store in this community and get food stamps and Medicaid when they've only had their one child or two children to raise, more power to them. Thank God that they can get it. I have a daughter that owns Jordons Corner Store and she's had one heck of a time to get the City of Cortland to help her down here. When the road came down through, she lost one hundred thirty thousand dollars. No one in Cortland helped her, no one. And she raises her son. It's not a mom-and-pop store; it's a mom -and -son store. It's named after her little miracle baby. So Walmart hasn't hurt her one darn bit. And if you want to talk about welfare and people, welfare and the drunks of Cortland come to my daughter's store and buy their goods because they can't get to Walmart and Walmart doesn't sell what they need. And I'm not knocking the drunks and the welfare people, I'm not, because I'm not in their shoes and I don't know what how they're living and it's -- but I've been there. You know? And think about -- think about what's in your heart, not about economy and water and -- I mean, yes, you do have to think about water. I apologize for that. You know, I'm not knocking this aquifer; I'm not knocking what you people are saying, you know? And — but if you've ever been without a job, go to Walmart because chances are they might hire ya'. And they are good people, no matter what you said or think about them, go talk to some of them. To this day -- I might not have gotten along with a lot of the Walmart associates, but to this day, I can walk out there and I can say, "Hi, how are you doing?" And some of them didn't like me, either, because I say it like it is and -- but they're still there. You know? They're talking about Walmart employees not making a lot of money. Well, some of us didn't make a lot of money. But if I was still there, I'd be making about 15-20 dollars an hour. When my husband started out in corrections, he made 18 dollars an hour; he got up to 27 dollars an hour, but he had to work his way up just like they do at Walmart, just like anyone else. I came in here upset because of what was said about the DEIS and I apologize for that, but I didn't understand and the only way to understand is to ask. And that's why I asked. If I sounded angry, I was. And I have -- I've listened for the last three things — three nights, and I don't speak well, as you can tell, and I'm just appalled. And I thank you very much for listening to me and thank you very much. I hope you consider the Walmart company, whether it's Walmart or whoever comes in here, consider it. We need them. Thanks. ATTORNEY FOLMER: Branid Hansen. I don't see Branid here. Richard Butney. RICHARD BUTNEY: Town Board Members, fellow citizens, I'm Richard Butney. I live in Virgil. And responding to Richianna and Jim Murphy about Virgil, we do not want Walmart in Virgil. Although I was talking to some of my fellow Virgilians at the last meeting and we were joking about that maybe we could -- if the water turns bad here, we could set up a pipe and send clean water down to Cortlandville, so we'd happy to help out as a neighboring province. But really what I came here to talk about is, I was actually talking to a fair number of people about coming to this meeting. I mean, before Wednesday. And they said largely it was kind of a waste of time. They said, the decision has already been made behind closed doors. They said the public hearing is going to be letting off steam for the public. They said, big money as usual gets its way. And I must say this is my third public hearing over the last couple of years on this issue. And I've heard a number of arguments and positions, mostly from opponents but on both sides. I must say I haven't heard what the town board members think. It seems to me democracy is more than just voting. Democracy means engaging in a dialogue with technical parties, with technical experts and with the citizens of the community. So what I want to propose is thinking outside the box. And if I may pass out this handout to everyone. I was talking to a gentleman up at the Maxwell School in Syracuse University, and he works in the Environmental Finance Center. And this is an outfit that has expertise in water and waste water. And they work with communities free of charge and they do things, like, have focus groups with community members, that express their opinion, concerns they have, public input. They will do surveys or questionnaires or interviews of the public to find out about public sentiment. I mean, do we really know what the public thinks? Different people have that said that most people are against Walmart. Some people have said most people are for Walmart. I don't think we really know. This outfit might be able to get more input from the public. They also do round -table discussions with community leaders and experts. And I think, you know, we've heard -- like Kay Breed made that point, that each side brings their experts in. Why not Man MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 6 really get the best kind of information from the scientists and the water quality experts rather than he said/she said, have opposing experts talking on this. I think that's' one thing we all agree on is, we want the best science and the best water - quality experts on this. So why don't we really bring in all the people that know about this and have a discussion, a dialogue, rather than just these reports that get written up. So I guess, basically, what I want to say, why do we have to rush to a decision, especially the magnitude if things go wrong on this decision? So let's think outside the box, let's have dialogue with members of the community, not just a backroom decision. Thank you. ATTORNEY FOLMER: Dean Hubble. Richard Contento. Ginger Thomas. Marie Kouts [phonetic]. Am I saying that correctly? MARIE KOUTS: That's correct. ATTORNEY FOLMER: Or close anyway. MARIE KOUTS: I think my timing is good. I just walked in the door and I was afraid I would miss my chance. My name is Marie Kouts. I'm a Cortlandville resident and a part of the Walden Oaks Community. I work for the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation as a wild life manager. Tonight I am speaking not in my professional capacity but as a private citizen and Cortlandville resident concerned with the proposal to build a Walmart store at the corner of Bennie Road and Route 13. My remarks today are in two areas: First are comments on the DEIS and after that are comments on the proposal itself. My review time for the DEIS was brief and I could give careful attention to only a few pages of the total document. I support other statements that have been made in this form by CAPE and by the Walden Oaks community members. From my personal statement, I would like to call the Board's attention specifically to what I believe are errors or misrepresentations in descriptions of present use of the site. On page 19,. paragraph 3, the DEIS overview describes the present use of this site as involving turf grass management thus suggesting active and intensive use of chemicals and practices which I believe are not substantiated in fact. This claim should be substantiated if it is to be used in comparison with chemical usage anticipated during and post -construction at the Walmart. In another place -- and that will be on page 19 or page 35, I'm not quite sure, I don't have the specific reference at the present time -- the DEIS raises the spector of fecal contamination of our aquifer as a risk under the present use of the site. In fact, current use of the site by livestock is at a low density, infrequent and of short duration. Again, I believe Walmart's reference to fecal contamination of ground water under present use is a gross exaggeration, not even unsupportable assertions like these have no place in a serious document and serve as examples of that document's overall lack of quality. After Wednesday night's meeting, I heard a reference that Walmart might be willing to hire a security guard or night police officer to patrol the back of the store. While on the surface that seem like a good solution to criminal activity anticipated from the presence of the store, it doesn't do much to' ease my mind. Over time guards make mistakes, economic bottom lines demand cost reductions, attention to salaries and motivation may flag, all resulting in less security and reducing the value of this mitigation strategy. I've seen and heard discussion on the storm water plant. It has many shortcomings and design in documentation that were pointed out on Wednesday night and last night. Protecting our aquifer from hazardous chemicals is of the utmost importance but so is protecting our air from chemicals generated during fire, explosion or other kinds of chemical releases. Because chemicals and petroleum products will be stored on the site in significant quantities, what is the protection plan in event of fire or other catastrophe for the Walden Oaks residents and for generally upwind residents along Bennie Road? My final point. After, again; Wednesday night's meeting, Supervisor Tupper was kind enough to speak with me for a few minutes and I had a chance to ask him, given the acknowledged overestimates • 6 MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING — DRAFT EIS PAGE 7 of tax revenues in the DEIS document what he saw as the benefit of bringing the Walmart to this location. Mr. Tupper, I believe I understood you correctly when you shared the following vision with me. You indicated that the tax benefit of approving Walmart's proposal would come not so much from the Walmart itself but is from the notion that other big stores will follow it in: First the Lowe's, then Builders Best, then they'd there would be a Wegman's. You said they seem to like to compete with each other. We discussed for a short time your vision that the Route 13 corridor south of Cortland could become a shopping destination drawing revenue from the north side of Ithaca, from Groton, from Dryden and even as far away as Casenovia. Mr. Tupper, I'm moved by your vision, your years of service and your intention to do well for this community. The belief that Walmart is key to the future economic success of Cortlandville and it surrounds may be a powerful force influencing other board members. But I ask you: What are the chances of that happening? And more important, how can you responsibly start the process without considering the combined affects of the envisioned development on quality of life, air, water, noise, traffic, pedestrian safety and crime? You, as board members, have a wonderful opportunity now to reject the PUD application, to revisit the zoning ordinance and bring some rational attention to the total development picture before you. The converse: Allowing Walmart to come in, providing them with tax relief and services despite negative consequences and affects on the community and its residence in the hope of attracting other businesses is just not good leadership. The number of people who are passionate enough to come to Wednesday's night's meeting, Thursday night's meeting and tonight's hearing, the number of supporting CAPE and the coming together of the Walden Oaks community of busy, intense people ought to tell you that we care. Substantial numbers of Cortlandville residents care deeply about aquifer protection, water, sensible, workable traffic patterns and sustaining the quality of life in this community. A quick decision to approve Walmart is not the answer to sustain supportable income and economic growth for Cortlandville. Let's take another care when considering how best to avoid the downside of your vision. Walmart is not the answer. Thank you. Oaks. BOARD MEMBER: Mr. Folmer, clarification, her address is -- she lives in Walden ATTORNEY FOLMER: Yes. BOARD MEMBER: Do you overlook -- if I may ask, for the board's information, overlook the polo field? MARIE KOUTS: I'm not on the rim. I'm up above that. BOARD MEMBER: Thank you. ATTORNEY FOLMER: I've been -- I hope you will forgive me if I tell you I've been dreading this particular moment all day. He tried to tell me how to pronounce this last night and I'm afraid I'm not going to get it right. Tom, where are you? SPEAKER: Pescarello [phonetic]. As you just found out my name is Tom Pescarello. I live here in Cortlandville. I want to thank Mr. Tupper and members of the Board for giving me the opportunity to speak this evening and I really want to say how proud I am of members of the community. For the most part, we treated each other — people have treated each other on both sides of the issue in a very courteous manner, respectful manner and that seems sadly lacking to me in politics today and I'm glad to see it's not happening here for the most part. After hearing planning board members Nick Renzi and James express their concerns over the DEIS, I'm sure the Board is aware that there's at least some risk to our aquifer in the planned development of a Walmart Supercenter. Similarly, I don't think there's any doubt that the proposed Walmart Supercenter has the potential to snarl traffic and adversely affect residential neighborhoods. I also recognize, however, that any new development invariably brings with it risks and costs that must be balanced against potential benefits and I don't envy the Board its task of balancing costs and benefits for this or any large scale development; it's a daunting task. MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 8 But I would like to take a few minutes to express or present my beliefs about the potential benefits of the Walmart Supercenter. Proponents of the proposed Supercenter site three potentials for our community: New jobs, increased tax revenues and lower prices for consumer goods. But as I think about this, I question whether we should really expect to receive those benefits if the development is allowed to proceed. It's far from clear to me how building a supercenter will bring new jobs to our community. Because there are two, and it seems to me only two, ways to bring new retail jobs to a community: Bring in new shoppers or entice current shoppers to spend more money. As far as bringing in new shoppers is concerned, the attractions of the proposed Super Walmart would seem to be lower prices and being able to shop for consumer goods and services at the same store where you shop for groceries. And I think we have to ask ourselves -- I've asked myself many times -- whether these advantages are enough to attract consumers from other communities who currently shop in Ithaca, Binghamton or Syracuse. Does it really seem likely that shoppers from Ithaca will abandon Wegman's and travel 30 minutes to buy groceries and clothing under the same roof in the Walmart Supercenter? I ask the members of the Board to ask themselves if they built the Super Walmart in Ithaca how much would you go there to shop, especially given the price of gasoline today? Would you travel there? I just can't see it happening. Seems to me that while the Supercenter might attract a few new shoppers from Dryden, Tully, maybe even Whitney Point, the claims of 200 new jobs seem wildly inflated to me, seems far more likely that every new job at Walmart will be created at the expense of an old retail job somewhere in our community and that every additional dollar in tax revenue paid by Walmart, assuming they don't receive tax abatements which we've heard about, will come at the expense of a dollar in tax revenue paid by a retailer driven out of business by them. So new shoppers doesn't seem likely to me. How about getting people who already shop in our community to spend more money? Unless shoppers in Cortland are very much different than people in our country in general, and that seems unlikely, we're pretty well maxed out in terms of consumer debt and spending in this country. Of course, if creditors keep raising credit limits then, perhaps, the lower prices at Walmart could spur a new round of consumer spending but that hardly seems like a sound economic development plan for our community. And how about those low prices we always hear about from Walmart? It's no secret that Walmart's low prices put other retailers out of business, even proponents don't deny that. And in fact, when they talk about it, Walmart supporters tell us that's just an active rational self-interest in a competitive market economy. I'm a firm believer in competitive market economies as long as there's regulation to keep things fair. And I understand the argument that Walmart is simply acting in its own self-interest in using low prices to put other retailers out of business even if I don't agree with it. What I don't understand is, why anyone would believe that Walmart's prices will stay low once the competition is driven out of business. Since keeping prices low is contrary to that same rational self-interest, you can't have the principal operate on one hand and then not operate on the other. They're naturally self -interested and they dominate the economy. There's no reason for them to keep prices low. That to me is the real risk in this scenario that we're discussing. The proposed Walmart Supercenter will almost inevitably come to dominate the retail market in Cortland. We won't be creating new jobs or new tax revenues, just shifting them from several smaller retailers to a large one. And it seems unlikely for the reasons I mentioned before that we'll see lower consumer prices for our community as a result. So the bottom line to me, I can't see any reason why we should risk damage to our water supply and denigration of our quality of life. We live in a place like Cortland because we want a small-town atmosphere. I've seen traffic on the 281 corridor -- I've lived here 15 years -- and you've seen it, too. You have to see that as you try to get across. The traffic is getting worse and worse. Adding a Super Walmart can't improve that situation. If you want to have traffic like that, I would move to Syracuse or someplace. I like the fact I can drive to work in five minutes. So I don't see any reason why we should risk damage to our water supply and the denigration of our quality of life given that we should reasonably expect only meager, if any, real benefits in return. And I urge the Board to consider this as they balance the potential cost and benefits of this proposal. Thank you. ATTORNEY FOLMER: Kelly Kattell [phonetic]. MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 9 SPEAKER: Hi, everybody. Hello. It's great to hear the diversity of views offered here by many people who have come to spoke and I think it's -- we should have more public forums on many, many issues, not just the issue before us today. My name is Kelly Cataw [phonetic]. I work at the State University of New York College at Cortland where I teach a Spanish language and culture. I'm also a folk singer. I've lived in Cortland for 30 years and, my God, I can't believe it, four of those as a college student and the rest because I found community here; a community not subsumed under a consumerist culture like the one that, unfortunately, dominates Long Island where I'm from. I've submitted written commentary to the Board before concerning the issue of the 281 corridor development and I've been alarmed at the direction of the development there and elsewhere around the globe. Despite the contradictions that we all face, I've been trying to live the values that my Catholic school early years and my subsequent college years reinforced in me, values like equality, justice, freedom, love, do no harm. To attempt this, I try to buy only locally -- to scrounge around for clothes at secondhand shops and grow as many of my own vegetables organically without pesticides herbs or processed fertilizers and I buy food even domestic products mostly through the east branch natural foods co-ops, a local buying club, created by local people, going on for many years. Nothing means more to me than air, water and beauty that this planet provides, nothing. I used to commute to Ithaca and took a cut in salary to be able to work in Cortland so I could stay local and do better on walking the walk of living lightly on the earth. Walmart's dishonorable labor and environmental practices, already described by several people who have spoken here, are some of the reasons I do not shop at Walmart and have little need for big -box stores. I've also seen the ravaged landscape and capitalism gone wild and the effects of consumer culture on families in communities both here in and in Latin America. My experience in Cortland has also taught me that at the end of the day multi -national corporations, like the one in question here, do little for the community. In fact, they most often supplant community uniqueness and with sameness and lower standards of quality and then they leave when the tax bill is due or when they fine cheap labor elsewhere. I've seen that. I know you have, too. While a few people may benefit from employment and cheaper goods, a vast majority of the people around the world suffer environmentally and socially from corporations like Walmart. That competition is natural or keeps prices down is a myth. If that were the case, a cup of coffee would still cost a nickel like it did back in the '30s. Walmart forces established businesses to close, so it defeats competition and monopolizes. No industry or commercial outlet ought to be built on top of the headwaters of our aquifer period. That's how I feel and that's a rational opinion. The corporation in question has repeatedly violated the Clean Water Act and has multiple lawsuits pending in this country for causing environmental damage. As it forges its way into other countries in Latin America and other parts of the world where environments of regulations are not as enforceable, I can just imagine the pollution and ecological devastation that will happen there and is happening as we speak. What I need to know and what any DEIS report should include is how any multi -national corporation business affects -- not just a compartmentalized area, but what its environmental and labor impacts are from start to finish. That is, from the natural resources used, how they are extracted, to what it takes to produce the product, factory conditions, the amount of energy use, emissions from production, et cetera, to the finished product, how and how far its transported and then to the disposal of that product. There's is no away. Where do we get rid of the products, the excess that we have here? Answer to these quarries would give us a more realistic picture of the environmental cost of the product. We should also ask who makes the product? Does the worker who makes the product earn enough to live to provide for a family to not have to leave his or her family to not make a living? Are they safe? This last question, because workers often give their lives to produce raw materials and other goods for others use, think of the 65 miners buried underground in Mexico right now or those who died in West Virginia. It's not just about Walmart. I've travelled to Columbia -- this is not in my written statement, but there are workers who try to organize in a bottling factory, Coca-Cola bottling factory were killed by paramilitaries and the Coca-Cola authorities looked the other way and there's evidence that they actually helped the paramilitaries to kill those workers organizing. We have to be in solidarity with those kinds of issues, I feel. 90 MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 10 In terms of the Walmart Supercenter as proposed, aside from its threats to ground water from polluted water runoff, it's garden department, automotive department will house toxic chemicals that threaten ground water. The vast parking lot will further add to increases in road salt chemicals and automobile fluids leaking constantly 24 hours a day. I'm not willing to accept a loss of a critical recharge area for the aquifer ever. I do not see any benefit for the store being built. I see it as an attempt to put other stores out of business as it has many other towns. Is it good for Cortland to have one giant store controlled by one giant corporation? I don't want to be supersized. And, finally, laws can and indeed have been changed. I think that the laws that are governing the current 281 corridor need to be re-evaluated and quickly. People have -- people make laws and have every ability and, indeed, responsibility to ensure that they are just and reasonable and are in everyone's best interest, not just to appease business. I even wrote a song about it. But I'm going to spare you, unless you want me to. But it's -- you know, Janice Joplin, she wrote, "Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz," and I just had to make a little paradigm of that. Do you want to hear it? Just a little bit. (Singing.) ATTORNEY FOLMER: How about Mary Mayor? MARILYN MAYOR: Good evening. My name is Marilyn Mayor. I also live in Cortlandville. I, too, am really pleased to see how the community has turned out and, for the most part, how respectful people have been. I want to echo Tom's feelings that too often it's not found in politics today. So I think we, as a community, can be very proud of ourselves. I come to you not as an economist, not as a geologist, I come to you as a mother, first, and, second, as a teacher. Oh, a little segway. I also wanted to compliment the number of you that brought your children. As someone who is a teacher of 20 years, many of them teaching Social Studies, it's really great to see children coming to see their parents caring enough about an issue to give up quite a number of evenings now to come and speak out. The other night I left just, as I believe he's back here, it was a -- an expecting father was talking about his life story and he was saying how growing up in a very urban area they had to let the water run for several minutes to let the brown come out and how his younger brother -- excuse me -- died of cancer and his mother is now suffering. And I left to go to Mass for the start of Ash Wednesday and I thought, are we living really the way we should be? Is this what Jesus would do? I'm not a Bible thumper, but I can't believe that as we -- I'm assuming most people in this audience consider themselves Christians — are entering the most somber, serious of our Christian seasons, a Lenton Season, that we're looking at consumerism more than the future of our children and it just appalls me. Are we going to be happy paying for cheaper toilet paper or the fact that we can get forty- nine -dollar DVDs when we might risk our water source? I just can't understand it. I have to ask, as the Iroquois said, look to the seventh generation in every act that you do. My students are used to getting papers from me. There's always something on the back. They don't ever get a blank piece of paper. They think, that's kind of odd, where did this -- what's this? Sometimes the back of the paper is more interesting than the front of the paper. I say, well, I don't know; it's just some quiz my husband typed for his students or it's, whatever, an attendance sheet. And they think, God, that's kind of odd, but now they're so used to it. Even the smallest act, if it means that I can use a paper twice on both sides, I try to walk the walk. Are we walking the walk when we are going to build this monstrosity? Are we going to get more goods that we already aren't? Is Walmart going to supply us with more groceries than Tops and P&C and the other grocery stores aren't? We already have a Walmart. How much more do we need? I just don't understand it. And then I also have to ask myself: Do you know how long it took for this aquifer to form? Billions of years. If you had one billion dollars, do you know how long you would be able to spend that money? You would be able to spend a dollar a minute, 60 minutes an hour, 24 hours a day. How many years do you think? I'd like to take a guess. A billion dollars; 2,000 years. Wouldn't we like to have a billion dollars? I have to give that statistic because I don't think we fathom how long it has taken for us to have this earth and how quickly in a heartbeat it can be gone. It took 2 billion years for the ozone layer to form. There's a huge hole permanently over Antarctica. And we're going to destroy the possibility, destroy our water supply? I just don't get it. So, with that, I just want to say — and I don't mean this in a negative tone because I really appreciate how many of you have come out, but I have to end with the words of Mark Twain, whiskey's for drinking, water's for fighting. Let's care about our water. 91. MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 11 ATTORNEY FOLMER: Pam Jenkins. We'll take a five-minute break and when we come back, the first person to be called on will be Ron Powell and I see Ron is in the room. (Recess taken.) ATTORNEY FOLMER: Ron. RON POWELL: Thank you, John. Good evening, Gentlemen, and Ladies, and audience. With the Board's permission, I am going to continue CAPE presentation from a couple of nights ago, which was interrupted due to technical difficulties, meaning we didn't have the statement quite prepared. This is a statement prepared by Steve Garbet of Carpenter Environmental Environmental Associates which is a firm that CAPE retained to prepare a statement in reference to the environmental impact statement and, specifically, with the storm water management plant. And this is a summary. We will submit a complete version of this at a later date. This is rather lengthy and I promise I will not sing. Don't really want to clear the room. Okay, item 1, page 28 of the DEIS — one other thing. This has been a very long day. This is pretty lengthy statement and I may call on the bullpen for some relief at some point here if that's permissible. Page 28 of the DEIS makes reference to the Cortland Zoning Code which prohibits the open storage of pesticides, herbicides, spongicides and artificial fertilizers in areas 1 and 2. The Applicant states that the proposed project will have a completely enclosed enroofed garden center. There will be no open storage of prohibited materials. However, the DEIS also states, quote, "Materials of concerned sold through the garden center will be stored and sold from inside the roof area." The statements on the storage of the prohibited materials seem to contradict one another. It is not clear from this description of the garden center as to whether the prohibited materials will be stored inside the building or simply within an area that only has a roof structure. Fourth: If a spill of the prohibited material were to occur, is there a chance that the material will reach the storm drain system surface water or pervious ground? Will the storage area be equipped with floor drains? If so, where the floor drains lead? Will they drain to the storm water collection system? Will they drain to the sanitary sewer? Will the storage area be equipped with secondary containment? The storage of the prohibited materials is a major concern as a spill from this area could have a significant impact on the storm water runoff, surface water and, possibly, the aquifer. The Applicant should be required to store the prohibited material in an area with secondary containment. In addition, the Applicant should provide, as part of the SEQR process, a detailed plan describing the storage and handling of all prohibited materials. Item 2, Town Code, Section 1780-94133C states, quote, "The smallest area" -- this is in reference to the construction process. "The smallest area of land practical not exceeding 2 acres shall be exposed at any given time and that exposure will be kept to the shortest practical period of time." The DEIS does not address how the Applicant will comply with this requirement perfect or if a waiver is required. Furthermore, the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation general permit for storm water runoff and construction activity, GP-02-01, and so on, does not allow the disturbance of more than 5 acres at one time without prior written approval from the DEC. The DEIS does not state whether or not the Applicant has applied for or obtained this authorization. Given the magnitude of this project, i.e., the building itself is 4.7 acres, it seems unlikely the Applicant can complete the project without disturbing more than 5 acres at one time. If required, this approval should be obtained as part of the DEIS process because failure to receive this approval may result in a substantially modification to the proposed project. Item 3: The Applicant is required to complete a storm water pollution prevention plan based on Town and DEC requirements. Since the project is located in a sensitive area, i.e., an aquifer protection area, the Applicant should be required to submit the storm water pollution prevention plan as part of the DEIS review process so it can be reviewed and commented on by the public. The DEIS does not -- this is Item 4. M MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 12 The DEIS does not address the Applicant's proposed method to address melt water storage and treatment as required by the Route 281/13 land use aquifer protection plan. Item 5: The DEIS states that the facility will store oils, grease and other potentially toxic substances in excess of 220 liquid gallons per month. The DEIS does not specify the total volume of petroleum product to be stored on the site. However, if the total exceeds 1,302 gallons, a spill prevention control and counter-measure plan will be required. If required, the SPCC plan should be included in the DEIS for review by the public. Item 6: The Applicant has provided an appendix 1 of the DEIS, a hazardous materials plan, which includes a listing of the maximum quantities of hazardous substances stored at Walmart stores and supercenters. The listing provided in the DEIS was last updated in December of 2003 and is now out of date. The Applicant should provide a current listing of quantities and hazardous substances that may be stored at the facility. BOARD MEMBER: Could you repeat that? I didn't hear that. RON POWELL: Okay. Item 6: The Applicant has provided in appendix 1 of the DEIS a hazardous materials plan which includes a listing of the maximum quantities of hazardous substances stored at Walmart stores and Supercenters. The listing provided in the DEIS was last updated in December of 2003 and is now out of date. The Applicant should provide a current listing of quantities of hazardous substances that may be stored at the facility. Item 7: Page 51 of the DEIS states that the storm water management system has been designed to limit the peek post -development runoff rates to less than the existing rates for the two, five, ten, twenty-five and hundred -year storms. The Town Code also requires that the peek post -development runoff rate for the 50-year storm not exceed the pre -development rate. The Applicant must demonstrate compliance with this requirement. Table 12 on page 52 of the DEIS also fails to demonstrate adequate control of the 50-year storm events. Item 8: Due to the large nature of the proposed project, significant adverse storm water impacts. can occur during the construction phase. During construction runoff -- during construction, runoff rates can be the highest of all phases of the project because this is usually the time when the least amount of vegetative or other surface cover is available. In addition, it is also the same time when the storm water treatment system is minimal; i.e., usually only seven of the control structures are available for storm water treatment. Therefore, as. part of the DEIS process, the Applicant should be required to conduct a storm -water analysis for the construction phase of the project. Item 9: The DEIS, appendix F, page 1, states that the proposed storm water management facilities were designed utilizing the latest DEC regulations for storm -water mitigation which includes designing the storm water management areas, quote, "As per the majority of guidelines within the DEC's..." unquote, New York storm water management design manual dated October 2001. That's dated October 2001. The most recent version of this guidance document is dated August of 2003. The storm water management facility should be redesigned to comply with this more recent guidance doctrine. Item 10: The DEIS, appendix F, page 6, indicates that the storm sewer system will be sized for a ten-year frequency storm. Therefore, during storms with a return frequency greater than ten years, the areas drained by the storm sewer may become flooded. The proposed storm water management facility is designed to handle a 100-year storm event. However, if the storm water collection system is only designed to convey a ten-year storm, then the available storage within the storm water management facility is wasted. Admitted knowledge of the Town's designs -- design storm requirements is unknown. However, it seems irrational to design a storm water management system to be capable of handling a 100-year storm and a storm sewer only evade the flow from a ten-year storm. The Applicant should be required to design a storm sewer to convey at a minimum the 25-year return frequency storm. Item 11: The Applicant may have underestimated the presented -- the percentage of the impervious area for the outparcels. According to the DEIS, appendix F, page 12, the Applicant assumed that the outparcels when developed would have 60 percent of the area covered with impervious services. The runoff curve number for commercial and business properties typically assumed at 85 percent of the area will be covered by impervious surfaces. The Applicant should be required to support the selection of 60 percent impervious cover for the outparcel or revise their calculations. 93 MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING — DRAFT EIS PAGE 13 Item 12: The Applicant claims that the ground water level in the vicinity of the storm infiltration system is at about elevation 1,203. DEIS, appendix F, page 15. However, the ground water data pan which this elevation is based was collected between late May and early June in 2003. The Applicant has not demonstrated that the selected ground water level is indicative of the seasonal high ground water level. Therefore, the Applicant should be required to determine the seasonal high ground water level in the vicinity of the infiltration system. The New York State Storm Water Management Design Manual requires that the bottom of the infiltration system in a sole source aquifer be separated by at least 4 feet from the seasonal high ground water level. If the Applicant cannot achieve this separation, then an alternative storm water treatment practice may have to be selected and designed. Item 13: The Applicant proposes the use of heated walkways to reduce the amount of salt needed for the control of ice at the site. As part of the DEIS process, the Applicant should be required to provide additional details on the use of this practice at the site. At the very least, the Applicant should provide a drawing to show which portions of the sidewalk will be heated with some conceptual drawings showing the design of the system. Item 14: The Applicant has considered the storm water basins to be pervious when they will be impervious. Repeating: Applicant has considered the storm water basins to be pervious when they will be impervious. The Applicant calculates the runoff curve number for post -development conditions in the DEIS, appendix A of appendix F storm water management plan. These calculations show that the Applicant assumed that the surface cover for areas A3 and A4, i.e., basins 1, 2 was only landscaped and not impervious. The storm water basins in areas A3 and A4 will be impervious since the Applicant plans to install a liner or clay at the bottom of the basins to retain the storm water. The Applicant should have considered these areas to be impervious in the runoff curve number of calculations. The Applicant should revise the calculations and properly calculate the runoff curve numbers. Item 15: The proposed drainage map, drawing DR2 in appendix F of the DEIS and the drainage profile plan, drawing C32 were provided in a scale that is difficult to review which prevents the public from fully understanding the proposed storm water management plan. As part of the DEIS process, the Applicant should be required to provide a larger version of the plan that is legible so that a thorough review can be completed. Item 16: The design of storm water ponds and wetlands require specific maintenance and safety features, such as a perimeter safety bench and maintenance access to the four bay and outlet. It's unclear from the plans and maps provided in the DEIS that the Applicant has included these required elements into the design of the storm water pond wetlands proposed to the site. If these elements are not going to be incorporated into the design, then the Applicant should be required to redesign the pond and wetlands. I'm on a roll now, Folks. Item 17: The Applicant includes stage/storage information for basin 2 in the DEIS. This stage/storage information indicates that the pond height is up to elevation twelve fourteen. However, drawing C32 which indicates a profile of the pond shows that the pond elevation is not at elevation twelve fourteen. The Applicant should be required to correct this error. In addition, this stage/storage information indicates that there is no outlet control device, yet information at the bottom of the page lists outlet flow rates from the basin for different elevations. The only conclusion that could be drawn is that the Applicant has directly inputted discharge rates for basin 2. The Applicant should be required to provide the data that supports the use of these discharge rates in the DEIS. Item 18: The Applicant storm water calculations and plans are inconsistent. The storm water management plan, appendix D of appendix F, provides a table that shows the storage volume in basin 1 and basin 2 of each foot of elevation. This table shows that the bottom of basin 1 and basin 2 is elevation twelve zero five. However, drawing C32, range profile plan, shows the bottom of the basins at elevations twelve zero six. In addition, the Applicant provides a table titled "Combined Basins for Pond Modeling" which appears to be incorrect. The table appears to be a summary of the storage volume provided by the three proposed storm water basins. However, if you add the storage volumes for each of the three basins for a specific elevation, you don't achieve total listed on the table. For example, if you had the storage volumes from basins 1, 2 and 3 to the area below elevation twelve zero nine, you get a total volume of 2.18 feet. However, the summary table only shows a table volume of .19 total feet. The Applicant must revise the calculations and design. The Applicant's drawing -- this is Item 19, excuse me: The Applicant's drawing shows the emergency outflow elevation for the storm water basins to be higher than the sides of the two storm water basins. Drawing number C32, the drainage profile plan, shows the overflow 99 MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 14 elevation to the recharged area at 1213.9. However, the size of basins 1 and 2 of elevations twelve thirteen and twelve thirteen point five respectively. This design can result in the overtopping of the storm water basins. The Applicant should be required to correct the error. Item 20: Tables listing the storm water pond storage volumes which are contained within the DEIS are inconsistent. The Applicant includes stage/storage information for basin 2 in the DEIS, appendix C of appendix F. This stage/storage information indicates the pond height is up to elevation twelve fourteen and the pond storage volume is 346,029 cubic feet. However, in the Applicant's title to combine basins for pond modeling, the volume listed for basin 2 had the maximum elevation of twelve thirteen at 206,474 cubic feet. This example shows that the Applicant's tables are inconsistent once more and the Applicant should be required to correct these errors. Item 21: The Applicant proposed storm water management system, i.e., storm water basins is complex. The plan system includes storm water pumping and multiple storm water basin. The proposed basin design is not clearly explained in the DEIS. And the data included in the DEIS in support of the design is inconsistent. The Applicant should be required to provide a clear description of the proposed system, how it works and supply complete calculations that fully support the proposed design. Without a clear explanation of the system and correct calculations, the adequacy of the proposed system cannot be evaluated. Item 22: The Town Code, at section 178-95D1A1, requires the runoff generated by the two-year 24-hour storm to be stored and gradually released for a minimum of 40 hours. I interpret the Code to require the extent of detention of the two-year 24-hour storm which has a rainfall total of 2.7 inches in 24 hours. The proposed storm water management system is capable of providing 24 hours of detention for the WQV storm. I'm not sure what -- okay, that's -- well, WQV storm which has a rainfall total of only .88 inches. The Applicant should be required to properly size the storm water management system to provide the detention of the two-year storm. Finally, item 23 of the DEIS on page 49 states that the Applicant will utilize a pump station to drain the first -flush basin over a 24-hour period. The Applicant does not provide many details regarding the pump station since the pump station is an integral part of the storm water management system. More details should be included in the DEIS. At a minimum, the Applicant should show on a map where the pump station would be located. I would like to add my own comment to that particular feature there. What happens in the event of a power failure which is a great likelihood in a major storm? How are those pumps go to work? That concludes that report. As I promised, I will not sing and I will be seated. Thank you very much. ATTORNEY FOLMER: Bonnie Carlson. BONNIE CARLSON: Whenever the CAPE people say about the DEIS, I am with, I fully agree with them. Now, I try to be fair minded as a low-income person. And as all the Walmart associates could tell you, I'm a regular. Yes. I enjoy shopping at our local Walmart. I'm happy with my purchases. But in all honesty, I think for the size of your community we don't need a bigger Walmart. The one that we have right now is fine. When I move to Cortland in the spring of '90 and in the spring and I saw them playing polo over by Kmart, I just loved that and ever since every spring I really looked forward to watching them play polo, and I know I would be heart broken if that ever ended. Okay? And then on another matter, you know, the quality of life, of course I think that -- that is paramount and it's always best to error on the side of caution. Now, as far as getting new jobs into our community, I'm sure that there has to be some companies that are very environmentally conscious, very environmentally aware. I'm sure that there has to be -- and maybe more research needs to be done as far as contacting these companies. Maybe if you read alternative medicine magazine, maybe somehow you could find out about better companies that are far more conscientious. Well, yeah, I think we need a Super Walmart like a fish needs a bicycle. Thank you. ATTORNEY FOLMER: Grace Meddaugh. GRACE MEDDAUGH: I promise I won't sing, either. Town Board, thank you for letting me speak tonight. I will make it very short. I personally don't want our water supply put in jeopardy. I don't believe the DEIS really shows how they will protect our water source during construction or after the store is doing business. 9S MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 15 If it becomes contaminated, are they willing to supply all of Cortland, Homer and surrounding areas with bottled water? I saw, one time, an advertisement for Walmart and the wonderful things they do for communities. I just saw this one time and it was 2:30 in the morning when I was recuperating from a broken foot and couldn't sleep because of the pain. Haven't seen it since. It said they donate green space in the same acreage that their stores cover. Where is the donated green space in New York State? Do they have any? If they are really concerned about our community, they could buy the polo fields and donate them back to the town for green space in New York State. One personal observation I have made: If you walk in the entrance of Walmart, which I did, it is dirty and unkept. Are these the people you want to protect our water? I don't. Please, Town Board, save our water and say no to Walmart's PUD application. Thank you. ATTORNEY FOLMER: Randy Wallace. RANDY WALLACE: Gotta love that water. It's good stuff. I know it's been said before, but I think it bears repeating for our appreciation for your patience, for your tolerance, for the extra work that the Board and the Town of Cortlandville employees have done to put this together and it's been a long process, a lot of people care about what's going on and you should be congratulated on what you do and thank you for the sacrifice that you make in support of our community. I have a brief statement to read, then I have a couple things to hand in to you for the record. Every community needs development and I support development. However, not just any development. No one group or another should get automatic approval. Everyone should receive the same scrutiny, go through the same steps, meet the same requirements, all of which is designed to protect our community. We all know the lessons we've learned in this country over the past years and how things have been ruined from time to time. Unfortunately, the situation before you involving the proposed Walmart Supercenter, in my opinion, has not been given a fair chance through this process and certainly not the public eye. In my opinion, this project has been delayed and Walmart's reputation smeared. Now, numerous so-called facts have been tossed around that misrepresent the truth. Frankly, this country -- excuse me, this company has been dragged through the mud. Have there been issues, serious issues, on a national level? Absolutely. However, I ask you to discover any issue that has not been adequately and effectively adjudicated. Has it been dealt with in a manner that satisfies everyone? Absolutely not. Everyone has their critics. However, has Walmart ever failed to correct any deficiency procedure or otherwise that has been brought to their attention? We can always find some stores somewhere with a problem. However, who among us was outraged when we discovered McDonald's deceived their customers when they put vegetable -- excuse me, they put beef in their vegetable oil for their frenchfries? McDonald's is a huge enterprise, billions of hamburgers sold and served. But did anyone here in Cortland attempt to close our two locations? Of course not. Some people just chose not to go there anymore. I say the same is true in this case: If you do not like Walmart, do not go there. By the way, I do occasionally go to McDonald's, as can you tell from my overexpanding girth. I ask you to consider the relationship with our Walmart in this community. Has this store not corrected any problem brought to their attention? Does this store support the community as so many other businesses do? Of course, it does. In addition, several years ago over 3,000 people signed petitions in support of the Walmart Supercenter. And I think it's interesting to know that in our last election that's more than voted for any one individual who was running for election. Just thought that kind of odd that we would have so many people turn out for that more than election. Do they have the right to expand and grow their business? Absolutely. Just like any other business does and can. Just take a look down the street at the Essex Steel; they moved, no problem. Many critics claim Walmart destroys mom-and-pop businesses. Does anyone here need to be reminded that Walmart is itself a mom-and-pop business? That's how they started, that's how they grew. The problem is they figured out a better way to skin a proverbial cat. It's called business. If allowed to flourish, it presents outstanding opportunities for consumers and employees alike. No business in this country owes anyone 0 MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING — DRAFT EIS PAGE 16 anything other than an opportunity to work, and if the individual themselves choose to, they can succeed. No business in this country is responsible for your marriage, the number of children you have, the number of children you do not have or your own station in life. No business is responsible to provide its workers with a so-called living wage. I still cannot figure out what a living wage is. I haven't found it. It appears it be a moving target certainly in my house. I can't get there. There is, however, a minimum wage and it's established by the state and federal government. It has been said that Walmart sends its workforce to social services. I find it interesting that every time that's mentioned it's done so with a negative slant. I spent 23 years in the Navy. When I first came, most of you here, paramilitary know, you don't make a lot of money when you first join the military. I was not only taught and trained by the Navy how to apply, they taught our people how to train our people how to apply for Social Services. But we were also provided an opportunity. You had the opportunity to succeed, and if you moved up through the ranks and you made more money, your dependency upon the social services program went away. Fortunately, I didn't have to use that service for very long. Many businesses and the federal government, as I just said, not just Walmart, assist their workforce by making them aware of the various support functions available, such as alcohol and drug hotlines, stress management. I believe no one in this country owes anyone anything except an opportunity. I believe the majority of those in opposition to this project are not truly concerned about just the water. Their main purpose is to stop Walmart. The aquifer in this case is being used, in my opinion, as a scare tactic to alert the neighborhood of what they would like the uninformed to believe is pending disaster. I believe we're all just as concerned but the difference is we're not hiding behind organized labor. This is not about water. We must absolutely protect and preserve the quality of our water. However, this piece of land represents less than one half of 1 percent of the aquifer. One half of 1 percent. There have been comments alleging the new store will not provide any additional tax revenue. I ask you to consider the additional jobs created and the taxes those individuals would add to our tax base. I would think we should probably thank Walmart for providing over one million jobs in this country alone. In addition, I would ask you to consider the new business that is slated to take over the existing Walmart site, the taxes they would pay and the jobs they would create. It's very important to mention that this plan involves an opportunity and it's very rare for any community. This plan involves moving a current Walmart to the new site and then turning that over to another business who is going to erect their own store. How many vacant lots and abandoned buildings do we have to have in Cortland? You see it on just about every corner in the City. By the way, this land is not a polo field anymore than it's a snowmobile trail anymore than it's a practice driving range. I play golf. I'm not Tiger Woods. It is, however, a parcel of land, a piece of property owned by one of our own good citizens who paid the taxes for almost 20 years. Certainly putting this land to use will generate more tax revenue than sitting idle. I would ask you to consider this: The way this land is currently zoned it could have sitting on it today a used car lot, a utility substation, bus terminals, railroad terminals, communication tower, storage warehouse, or a truck terminal. Think for just a minute outside of your paradise. I would offer that erecting a Walmart Supercenter on this property would actually save our aquifer. It would offer protection for our water. I ask you to consider this, as well: Where was the concern in this community for the aquifer when this very town hall added the addition and parking lot constructed over the aquifer? Where was the concern for the aquifer when the new SUNY college stadium went up and it has an associated parking lot? We all know how well maintained the cars of college kids are these days and how long they have a tendency to be in a parking lot. I wonder if there's any mitigation in that place? Where was the aquifer concerned when you give the give people of Homer a 3.2 million dollars for animal feces and urine? This tank will be directly over the aquifer. The end of this process, the decision is yours. I do not envy you or your task before you. I trust you'll make the right decision. This is decision, at best, represents our community. My sincerest hope is that we can come together in a spirit of corporation, not umbrella of confrontation. Our world is filled with negative events of every minute of every day. We see it every day. I encourage all those involved to come together with ideas to make this work for our community. Let's bring a proactive spirit to our decision -making process because we all know anyone can look at a situation and say it will never work. I happen to disagree. 97 MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 17 I still hold to believe that our country in no small part was founded on opportunity. Let us use this opportunity wisely, andat the end of the day, maybe, just maybe we could have a win -win outcome. I think we could all drink to that. Thank you for this opportunity and I thank you all for your sacrifice and contribution to this community. ATTORNEY FOLMER: Ernie Dodge. ERNIE DODGE: I'd like to thank the Board for hearing me tonight. I wasn't on the original meeting on Wednesday. I couldn't be here. My name is Ernest Dodge. I live on Highland Road. I went to college here and then I stayed here and I've been here since 1981 when I attended college. I was born in a small rural community of farms and just decided, dad, sell the farm, because it's not for me. I'd first like to start off with something I found in the dictionary on Webster and for the definition of aquifer. It's from an old dictionary, may not be current with but it was: An aquifer is defined as a water bearing straddle of permeable rock, sand or gravel. But just seems to me in Cortland that we define it as an impermeable obstacle to business development. Now, I've been here long enough that we've turned away a J&J truck stop next to a major interstate. I've seen us turn away a feed mill in a rural community in Preble. I've seen a warehouse from Aldi's go across the border because they couldn't build here in Cortland. It has to stop. Now, I -- I'm not a Walmart fan. I have nothing to do with Walmart. I don't frequent the store. I don't see how they're going to hurt small businesses. They're not going to hurt Dale Taylor at Sarvey Shoes; they're not going to Bernard's; they're not going to hurt places that sell quality goods and quality services. Will Kmart be in trouble? Absolutely. Will some of the other stores? Absolutely. That's capitalism; that's growth. Will Lowe's come in? Everybody wants Lowe's. I haven't heard anybody say they don't want Lowe's. But let's get to the real point as the previous speaker. He took most of the points that I was going to say, as well; it's not about the aquifer. You're hiding behind the aquifer. If you're against Walmart, say you're against Walmart but don't hide behind the aquifer. Walmart doesn't manufacture fertilizer pesticides paints. Correct me if I am wrong, but they're coming from a truck. They're going to a loading dock. They're inside a truck, going to a loading dock inside the building, being sold inside the building. Now, I don't know where the spill's gonna happen, but it's gonna happen inside the building; it's not going to happen outside. If it happens outside, it's by the customer who drops it. So now you're going to hold the customers responsible? A leak -- I've heard the leaky car, the gas tanks, the oil tanks, let me tell ya', they're leaking -- unless there are magical leaks and they start to happen when they're in the parking lot, they leak all across your roads. So now they can't drive on the roads, as well? We talk about the environment. There's -- I wonder where CAPE was when Buckbee- Mears was here? Because if you don't understand what Buckbee-Mears, their process is, when you're in that building when there are tankers of chlorine day in and day out parked there, and their processes were caustic, hazardous waste. They had their own water treatment facility within the building, but because they provided so many jobs and so many high -paying jobs it was okay. Now, if we had the truth serum, Folks, and Toyota wanted that piece of land and they wanted to build something there and they were going to employ a thousand people in union wages, I don't think we'd be having this conversation. The fact is, if you don't like Walmart, fine, everybody will respect you, your decision. But we don't like -- I should say what I don't like is hiding behind the aquifer, using the fear tactics. I also like to address some of the folks at Walden oaks. I know there's an indy faction, not in my backyard. I lived in Homer for ten years before I lived -- before I moved to Cort -- Highland Road, I lived on Grove Street. There was -- Kenny Demon came in from JTS and said, I want to build senior housing, on a piece of land that was right behind us next to the swamp. Of course, we were opposed, we didn't want it, but you know, when it came down to it, he had every right to piece of that land and he had every right within the law to build what he wanted to build there, and when he did it, it didn't bother us at all. He did what he said he was going to do. It was high income -- excuse me, it did tailor to the clientele he said it was going to tailor to; it didn't ruin our quality of life; it didn't lower our value of our homes. MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 18 If you wanted a track of land, you're welcome to buy the track of land. That's an option you have. You can't, just because you don't like Walmart, tell them they can't have that piece of land and you can't tell the person who wants to sell it who they can sell it to. We don't have that right. That's America; that's capitalism. They can sell it who they want to sell it to. I do find it somewhat disturbing -- and I appreciate Kay Breed speaking today — that more of our community government officials did not speak. I wish there was more people from the legislative body in support. I wish somebody from our economic development office were here. These are things that we need -- I'm not a proponent of Walmart, again, but I do -- I'm not blind to the fact that if you drive through southern Ithaca, the City of Ithaca and see how that is developed in the last five years and all that tax revenue and all that sales tax and property tax revenues generated back in that corner of that Ithaca, it's clean, it's -- the traffic flow is fine; it's set off the road; there's nothing wrong with that. And they have every right to that area. I do also want to address the fact that Walmart and their wages. It's retail. If you want to compare apples to apples, compare the local Kmart and the local retail stores to Walmart. Now, small mom-and-pop stores do not have health benefits; they can't afford it; or if they can afford it, it's so expensive that their workers can't participate. So Walmart does offer benefits. They may not be the same as a union benefit -- somebody that works for a union or works for a state organization, but they -- benefits are available if they want them. It's up to the employee whether they can afford or if they want to choose them. Many times they're offered and an employee doesn't want them. They also have options through their spouse. Now, with Walmart, we already know we have a Lowe's coming. We already have heard rumors of the Home Depot. We know there's going to be other businesses developed there. We cannot hold back. We're sending a message to every potential employer — or manufacturer, industrialist who wants to come to this community that we turn away business. When is going to be the right business? Somebody wave your magic wand and please tell me what the right business is we can bring to Cortland. Every time somebody wants to come in here we throw that aquifer at them. You may say that's an asset, but it's becoming a liability and it's not. It's not -- it's a big building on a piece of land. It's not a chemical plant. They're not making pesticides; they're not making hazardous waste. They're selling them inside their building. That's it. Thank you. ATTORNEY FOLMER: Navarro. NAVARO: Thank you for receiving me. I wasn't on the list, as well. And so I want to thank the Board and the Supervisor for the long hours you spent to hear everyone even up to this eleventh hour here. Most arguments -- and that's what we have -- have age-old differences. The differences are in philosophy, of perspective if you will, and it's, basically, one perspective sees humans as part of the natural world and connected to it and it's a priority in all their decisions and they consider all life forms in making decisions and land use and resource use to key exist with a minimal impact on the natural world. Of course, because most of you know I'm the associate director at Lime Hollow, that is my philosophy in life and in my philosophy in any work. However, I present this as a citizen of Cortlandville. I live on Gracie Road next to Lime Hollow. And the other perspective that we -- that dominates our culture in our thinking is that nature is here for us to use and to dominate and that we are separate from nature. So, with these . two perspectives — of course, we all fall somewhere in between -- are highly skewed. So I appreciate the comments that are made on both ends. But we have to remember that you have a very, very difficult decision to make and I hope that it hasn't been made like some people have said, that you will consider taking into hand the need for business in this community to come to this community, but I think that you have to consider that, that is, when we consider the businesses, we're not just not considering -- and we're not against business. Of course I'm on this perspective that we are here to consider every living thing in the natural and consider resources and priority in my paradigm. But we -- I'm open to business and, of course, it's going to be growing out towards Lime Hollow. And I'm all for Fingerlakes East. But that — those businesses are environmentally sound businesses. They've taken into great consideration the environmental impact when they are building and going to opt to build there. And businesses that we invite there. So just as nature, nature is most healthy with diversity. And so I ask us to take a lesson from nature as we are considering growth. As we're considering businesses, to take a lesson from nature that she is wise and most healthy when she's diverse. And big box Walmart or any big box encovering more of the aquifer recharge area is going to be detrimental to the environment. And it's going to be unhealthy for our community MARCH 03, 2006 PUBLIC HEARING— DRAFT EIS PAGE 19 LJ 1 when we have just one business. So what if that one business that employs 200 people does have a problem and does go under? Then like nomenclatures, it creates for unhealthy businesses. So I invite -- I invite growth and I invite diversity with that growth and I ask you, Board, to take this seriously in that don't be hasty in your decision, to allow for continued dialogue as we are all asking for. So I want to say that for the first two arguments, of course it's about philosophy and it's about our quality of life, social considerations, but I -- just after listening to comments for the last couple days, I just cannot see how we would be making a fiscal, wise decision to invite Walmart to take the tax revenue away from two sites. I just think it's fiscally unwise in that would — that burden, the tax burden, would then be on all of us, the consumer -- well, not consumer, but just the population. And I would just like to leave you with a quote that was given by Chief Seattle. He gave to the Congress when the -- the people in Washington were "buying" their land. This we do know, all things are connected like the blood that unites us. We did not weave the web of life. We are merely a strand in it. Whatever we do to the web can do to ourselves." Thank you. ATTORNEY FOLMER: May name is John Folmer and I'm a resident of the Town of Cortlandville and I have for more years that I can admit. We heard a lot about aquifer -- I'm speaking not as the town attorney but as an individual. I learned that from my friend who sits there. I don't want always agree with the way he does it, but I'm going to do it anyway. We heard a lot about the aquifer. We heard a lot about a lot of things, but I want to say one thing, and that is: That when I was a kid this young man's age, when I was a young man, my father and mother told me that the greatest resource in Cortland County was its people and I think the people that have been here for the last three nights prove that they were right. That's the end of my list. (Proceeding concluded at 6:58 p.m.) CERTIFICATION I, JENNIFER A. GOFKOWSKI, Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of New York, DO HEREBY CERTIFY that I attended the foregoing proceedings, took stenographic notes of the same and that the foregoing is a true and correct copy of same and the whole thereof. JENNIFER A. GOFKOWSKI Respectfully submitted, Karen Q. Snyder, RMC Town Clerk Town of Cortlandville