HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1970-04-21 �-' BOARD OF 'ZONING APPEALS, CITY OF ITHACA, CITY HALL, APRIL 219 1970
PRESENT:
JOHN BENTKCWSKI, Acting Chairman
DONALD LUCENTE
JAMES ROGAN
RALPH P. BALDIN I
FRANK ALO
BEVERLY MARTIN
EDISON JONES, Building Commissioner & Secretary
THE CHAIR: Calls meeting to order.
MR. ALO: Nominate Beverly Martin for our Chairman.
MISS MARTIN Deoline the nomination,
MR. LUCINTE: Nominate John Bentkovski.
MR. ROGAN: Second.
MR. ALO: Mows that nominations be closed.
JOHN BENTKOWSKI duly elected Chairman of Board of Zoning Appeals, City of
Ithaca.
THE CHAIR: Opens meeting. Our first case is that of Cutting Motore'
Request for a Special Permit to Section 7, Column 4, of
Zoning Ordinance. This is a re-hearing of the previous
appeal and David Cutting is here to answer some questions.
DAVID CUTTING: This is a drawing or rather a plot plan, and here is the
south corner of the covered canopy. We came to you some
meths ago to ask to put a sign up underneath the canopy.
This is a General Motors product sign, carried by most
automobile dealerships. It is put on a sign, will be
lighted, and is the smallest sign that General Motors makes.
We have two nice trees in the corner and we depded long
ago never to remove these trees, and thepn- . agn that
would work is this small one. We would rather not put any
sign up than to put a large one above the treses. I think
it is 38 feet high. This is an aerial photograph of our
property. (Indicates where the sign would be erected)
It would be is feet in from the edge of the road. Being
in a B-4 sone, under petition, this could give us 250 square
feet, and this request would keep us within that. It is
28 feet 6 inches and 8 by 8.
-2-
`.� DONALD LUCENTE: Is there any requirement for distance from the road?
COMMISSIONER JONES: I believe 10 feet in that area. The front yard is
10 Feet and 5 Peet on the side.
DAYID CUTTING: And this will be 15 feet in from the road and 5 feet
6 inches from the side.
DR. HALDIN I: You were asked before if this sign was temporary and
you said you would have to say it is, and I asked if
it was lighted and you said, "I don't think so".
Will this sign take the place of the others?
MR. CUTTING: I would like to take that word "temporary" off. It
won't last long. I would like to have something there
first which you approve under the canopy. It is made
out of wood and is really only temporary but it may
last there two years. 148 square feet and 69 square
feet now would give us 217 ware feet.
THE CHAIR: Is there any one who wishes to speak in favor of this
application?
None.
Is there any one who wishes to speak in opposition to
�.. this application?
None.
-3-
THE CHAIR: The next case is No. 874. Who is here representing?
STANLEY TSAPIS: I am Stanley Tsapis, attorney for the appellant. We
are here to appeal the order demanding that we remove
the signs on the building, which are the lettering
signs on three sides. The Supreme Court of Tompkins
County has ordered us beck here after we took the
appeal, to exhaust oar remedies, whish require that
this Board act upon the application. We are asking
for this exception because we need it and mast have it.
This matter has a long history and many statements
hare been made, m&W representations made, and $ome
hard fWAngs created. We are here, like some of the
new members of this Board, as inheritors of this
problem.. The group now operating Roast Beef is in no
way connected with Martin and Bassett, who created the
business. The franchise has been sold to wily
Pried Chicken. Also, we were not part of the oreati.on . ,
of the problem. The Donut Shop has nothing to do with
the franchise of Roast Beef. The two problems have to
be separated and I hope the Board can pat aside in
their minds what has happened in the past, and Judge
this appeal on its merits and in context with the
present-day situation. The reason the Zoning Crdiaaae
provided for signs was to prevent annoyances in the
neighborhood. They want to maintain a certain stan.» .
lard in the area, prw"t traffic hazards, and to make
sure the local neighbors are consulted and considered.
We have, here a petition sigro►d by 42 people in the
neighborhood, Indicating no objection to the signs am
urging the Board to consider this again. Darr signs
are not out of keeping with the neighborhood nor the
building. These signs are very attractive in relation
to the kind of signs on Meadow Street, in keeping with
the neighborhood and the manner in which the street
is developing. We feel this sign is an integral part
of the business; we need it for expanding competition
that our company fades each day. , The cost of removal
of the signs is a factor which we request you consider.
We think it is within your ability to grant what we
ask, 229 square feet of sign. That these signs be lit' '
is not any part of this appeal. We would however,
consent to abide by any reference from this Board with
relation to lighting the signs. The Planning Board
has twice previous turned down our request, but this
time has voted to take no position either for or
against the petition. I say this, knowing that this
Board is not bound by any recommendation by the
Planning Hoard. I find it iiteresting that they have
preferred not to oppose or recommend any action bythis
Board - previous to this time, as you all know, they
flatly rejected our application.
Just because this identifying mark takes the form
of lettering is not less of a sign than the Golden
Arches of Mac Donald's, nor the orange top of Howard
• Johnson's, nor any symbol. I submit our sign is
different; it contains lettering. If that were a
flat piece of yellow, would it be any less of a sign
than the golden arch? Now I would request your
permission to call several witnesses.
JET MACK9 245 Hayts Roadp Ithaca# being drily sworn, '<
answered as follows:
BY MR. TSAPISs
What is your full name?
A. John F. Mack.
Q. Are you employed at present?
A. Yes, by Kentucky Roast Beefs a subsidiary of Kentucky ,hied Chiakern,
which is operating now at 744 Buffalo Street.
Q, What is your capacity there?
A, Supervisor of Ithaca Roast Beef.
Q. The subject of the premises before this Board tonight?
�.. A. Yes„ right.
Q. Are you here to apply for permissions to retain the signs on your
building at present?
A. Yes,
Q. Is Mr. Martin relating to this corporation in any way?
A, No. in no way.
Q. How about Mr. Bassett?
A. That is also true for Mr. Bassett.
Q. Is your personal relationship separate and apart from them?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have any interest over the Donut Shop?
A. Ne.
Q Is there arq relationship between that operation and your operation?
A. No.
Q. Do you own the signs on the building?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this part of a national advertising identification scheme?
A. Yes, this is the Number One store in the nation and fits in with our
general scheme; it A me of the fox company owned operations in this
area. Ih fact,, it was the pilot operation in the Nast.
Q. Is this building as it exists, the one advertised throughout the
country?
A. That's right.
Q. Have you asked in your petition that these signs be lit?
A. No, in no way.
Q. Have you lit them?
A. No, as far as m' knowledge goes, there is no wiring provided in the
building for this.
Q. Do you need these signs for the attracting of customers?
A. We need them to promote this national image, for recognition, so
people knew what is there.
Q. Did you and David Gersh go about the neighborhood and ask the neighbors
to come tonight?
A. That is right.
Q. Did you ask them to sign a petition?
A. If they couldn't be present - and we asked if they had any objections
and if anything was offensive to them in the area, so anybody we have
talked to could see the building.
Q. Laid the people you talked to sign a petition?
A. Right, and not one refused.
Q. Did you go to every house in the area?
A. We vent to every one.
Appellant's Exhibit 1 marked for identification,
being such list of signatures
Q. Z show you Appellant's Exhibit 1, marked for identification, and
dated April 210 1970. Is that the petition you circulated throughout
the neighborhood?
A, Yes, sire
Q. Would you readthe petition, and we will leave it with the Board to
consider.
A. Reads:
"We, the undersigned, live or own property near the Col. Sanders
Kentucky Beef. building. 'do have seen the signs on the side of
this building, reading "Kentucky Beef" and know that the owners of
this business are asking permission to use and display these signs.
We have no objection to this request and believe that the use of
these signs would not detract from the appearance of our neighborhood
or otherwise be undesirable." (Lists names)
Q. What is the size of the signs requested?
A. 229 Square feet, total.
�.. Q. You were not connected with the original application, nor the can•
struotion of the building?
A. 3h no ray. I awo November lot, 1969.
MR. LUCENTS: How late do you stay open?
A. Sloven o'clock and we are considering closing earlier than that.
And let me say that I do not believe that it would be a help to have
the signs an the building lit. There aaren's air wires there atyay.
DR. BALDINI: Are you aware that the first photos shown here did not
shat these signs nor the bucking plate nor the bolt
holes?
A. No.
DR. BALDINI: You talk about a national image. I wonder when did
Kentucky Roast Beef decide thein national image had to
be different than the initial plans of the building?
It would seem, if you are trying to establish a national
image, like the golden arches$ which have no words an
them, that it would not be similar.
MR. TSAPIS: It is my understanding that they did show a picture
of Kentucky Roast Beef with a picture of the buildings.
Q. Hr. Naok# who owns and operates the Kentucky Roast Beef franchise that
operates there now?
A. Kentucky Fried Chiokent out of Lo dsville, MMtu01y. They purchased it
from Fred Martin and Associates and they are completely divorced from it
neat.
THE CHAIR: When did your purchase the franchise?
A. October 1st, 19690 when Mr. Martin was with the cospuW as a corporate
officer, and he sold out and went to work as an employee, and since
than has resigned. Originally he owned the franchise and operated it,
and then sold it back to the parent company and they now owan and operate
that franchise.
DAVID G SH, having first been duly swroxrn, answered
as follows:
BY MR. TSAPIS:
Q. Your name, address and occupation?
A. David Gersh, 213 Richard Placer partner in the firm of Wiggins, Tsapis,
Colder, Holmberg and Gersh.
Q. At my request did you investigate the traffic problems created by this
store, which is the subject matter of this proceeding in the City of
Ithaca?
A. Us. Ih doing some prelimWary research, I faced that the reason behind
the sign restrictions and the Zoning Ordinance is to avoid creating a
neighborhood nuisasme, and second, avoiding traffic hasardso and because
• I admit nV om lack of knodedge I spars with Chief of Police, Herbert
Van Ostrxnd and discussed traffics patterns in and about Meadow Suet
with him, and these signs as they now exist.
Q, Did he indicate any traffie problem as a result of the display of the
signs in that area?
A. No. He indicated to ms there had been no aacidents, to his knowledge,
caused by these signst and seoond, as a police officer, these signs could
not possibly cause any distraction or traffic hasard because of their
location back from the road and because they were high in the air. He
Indicated that he would Like to appear before the Hoard but had a prier
oomaittmont. I went around with Jobn Moak to see the neighbors in the
ansa and although we spent three or four hours knocking on doors, not
being able to see soars people who were at work# but did knock on their
doors, without exceptiien from the Kentucky Hoof building in all, direa-
tions, and all of these peapie who were home,, posted us enthusiastically
and sapportod the application, thought the signs attractive and wanted
us to know they had no objection tcthe signs anA in fact, supported our
application. We asked them to appear tonight, or if they could not,
to sign this application.
,Q, Have you filed our mailing affidavit also?
A. Right, I have.
THE CHAIR: What is the purpose of the signs?
A. The basic purpose is a sump orbial purpose, to identify this eastablishrmmat,
and attrsot customers.
THE CHAIR: What were the reasons you mentioned, the reasons for
the restrictions?
A. To avoid having a subject promises with an over-abundaraa of of signs in
terms of area or design, to create a nuisances in the area, and to avoid
traffic hassards or distractions.
THE CHAIR: We talk about polution. I think signs can create
visual polutAon.
A. I submit that the people best able to maks that determination are the
people who have to look at these signs every day, and these are the sane
people who told moa these signs were nice cued they felt added something
to the neighborhood and think they are an asset,
MR, TSAPIS: The thing I hoped to avoid in the beginning was to
divorce this application, from the past. I know certain
reprh►sentations were made acid mein that misrepresentation
ware made, but now I ask you to ,fudge this application
�.. on its merits, re-assess it as to what yam, have dans
along that street for some time! and I submit that
along that strest have such signs, and I respectfully
urge this Hoard to consider this matter on its om and
not on what has occurred in the past.
e
e^
s°
DR. BALDINI: Who brought the ease to the Suprema Court?
MR. TSAPIS: I did it in Vincent Giordano's name. I think when I
first boomw involved, Mr. Martin was a member of the
corporation but when it was argued in March, he was not
part of the organisation. Regardless of what Martin has
said or done, I an asking you to consider this in and of
itself, on its own merits, tonight. That is what Judge
Bryant has asked you to do bg reforring it back here.
mNg J. SULLIVAN: 206 -south Meadow Street. We are apprroodmately only
about loo feet from the sign on Maadow Street and we
have no objection. We Zook at that sign emery day and
don't seoar:ything wrong with it. I think it helps their
business some; I have seen people come in fror4 sayp a
football game and they find the place. It doesn't bother
me at all and I live right across the road from it.
MR. L fTM: Would you object if it was lit?
r A. That I isouldn't answer. They said they didn't want it lit. If
didn't drag bugs, it would be all right with me.
MRS. SULLNAN: I think we are qualified to speak because we look at
two sides. I thank it is an attraction instead of a dis-
traction. I too have observed mwW oars see the sign
�.. and pull in because the sign attracts them.
ANNA MAHOM: 703 West green Street. I have no objection to that
sign and I live right around the corner.
BLANCHS THOMPSM: I live right on the side of it. No objection unless
they light them. They have so maw lights around there
now gun can't even sleep. Yq back yard is just U*L
day air night. That Donut Shop operates 24 hours a ciy«
You think the cars are coming right through the house.
4 7f I an 70 years old and I can't fall asleep right
That place shouldn't be open 24 hours a day right beside
people's hoes. I just wouldn't want any light around
there, lit up like day all the time. I never have to
turn an lights to get around the house. I don't care
about Kentucky Beef if they don't light those big lights.
I live an Cleveland Avonne right next to ,the Donut Shop.
MRS, STAFFORD: 303 South Meadow Street. Some on* made the remark that
they went south on Meadow Street to get the names of
people 1n favor of this. Until tonight I didn't know
this mosting was going to be hers. I understood two
weeks ago that we wos1d be notified again when the
meeting was going to takes place. I would like to know
when +they- Tat those signatures because no one has stopped
at x' house at arty tire. Why should Untucky Beef have
L an excerption when friends of mine have not been able to?
MR. TSAPIS: Because every case is different, This Board has ruled
on =` cases who" they permit these signs and others
they have ruled against.
MRS. STAWORD: I am opposed because what is to hinder them from
wiring those signs up and lighting them?
MR. TSAPIS: This Hoard can, prevent that. This is not ccntemplaterd.
At no time have we asked that they be lit,
BEVERLY MAATIR: How many Rentuo1W Beef stares are there?
MR. MACKt 939 I think„ to be mmot.
MR. TSAPIS t Whether the third or the stye-third stem, under
those conditions should the sign be permitted?
THE CHAIR: Mars. Stafford brought a point up. She is concerned
about the business of the signs being lit, with the
sockets and bulbs in.
MR. TSAPISt The bulbs ars in.
THS CHAIRt you are saying to us that the signs will not be lit?
MR. TSAPISt Absolutely.
TEM CHAIR t What is to prevent you fress selling your franchise and
our having a now appeal?
MR. TSAPIS: That could happen.
.: THE CHAIR: Then we have to consider What Mr. Martin xepre�,
to you.
MR. TSAPISt Because we ars here asking your permission to oaatit�e
our business and aigboctr who succeeded us would have to
comms k+sfcP<♦ this Board and o owin" this Board these
signs should be lit, then, and I subnit at that time you
would have a right to say "No". As fair as we are cart.
c erned, we represmt to youthat these signs will not be
lit; at no time have we asked for it. I could not say
some orae else could not come and appeal an that basis,
Our application is net for a lighted sign„ and anybody
who wants it would have to cone before this Hoard as we
did. I tirill never appear before this Hoard and ask
that they be lit.
Z=UPI{►ffi SBSSICN, BOARD OF ZCNINQ APPEALS, CITY OF MALA, APRIL 21, 1970
it was moved and seconded that the first order
of busing ss In wAsoutive session will be a queue of open meetings w idle
• oaadsa►oting +sxoaut3." sessions.
lane 3aaesiasa►..
BALDI'NI s Move that this Board go along with the valing of the
Attorney t3eewnIq that the reed of the *vete mast be
kept; that &Vtody abstaiabW not sign ballot, and
that we would inforsoally agree that all ballets of We
Board be with rums, date and erase ager.
BW1 WSKI s Second.
YtrB s Yes •. 6 No. .. 0
ALO: Mwe that this body will oli xlywto wosoutive sessions
and opon its entire meeting to the public.
NO SHCCKD.
The reasons for oont41--'ng the executive sessions are as follows:
1. The Hoard fools that the p►alblio wa111 be batter served by +Jds mocative
session.
2. That its doUberatiow c t*roing the petition ars not as important as
its decisions.
Thwof+are, as a ocaprodso between the open or closed sossia% the decision
has been reached that there shall be a psbhies record of the gate talo,,
together with the name, the date and the *as* number, and this shill be a
,matter of record.
FROM r Board of Zoning Appeals
TO: Casa Cowwdl
DAM April 229 1970
MR40 tAN'DUM: It is suggested by the Hoard of Zoning A,ppsals that
the Canon Council consider the feasibility of cone
sideving the signs ereated on property as either
taomble by square footage or assessed with the baUdirtg.
�.. CASE NO. 867: Catting Motors
ALQt Move that the applioatiovn be granted.
EEN'PKOOKl: second.
VOTK: Yea - 6 No - 0
CMS N0. 874: Kmtuoky Beef
L l=z: move that the application be granted in mmordame, v th
the teati,eorW of the appellant, that the appellant wM
nev%,, appear before this Hurd petd tiomUg that the signs
be 41 load hated.
ROQAN t Secsond.
VOTE: Yes - No » 5
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WIGGINS. TSAPIS
GOLDER AND HOLMBERG p `�
ATTORNEYS AND
COUNSELORS AT LAW
908 NORTH TIOGA STREET ✓ A.J,�� ��,.- %f,--Q�4j!,�I/I JI L/I _.. / / �` /�, ,����� �
ITHACA. NEW YORK 14850
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WIGGINS. TSAPIS
GOLDER AND HOLMBERG
ATTORNEYS AND
COUNSELORS AT LAW
308 NORTH TIOGA STREET
ITHACA. NEW YORK 14850