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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1966-10-13 r t } L.. EXECUTIVE SESSION, BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, CITY HALL, OCTOBER 13, 1966 THE CHAIR: Let us consider Appeal No. 716. MR. PFANN: Move that the application for exception be granted be- cause the applicant shows special conditions and practice difficulties which render the proposed use of the land unreasonable under the existing ordinance, namely, 1) that the cost of acquisition, demolition and construc- tion of the allowable number of units under the existing ordinance makes the per unit cost prohibitive; 2) that since elderly people only would be allowed in the project, the required land space of 1500 square feet per unit does not seem justifiable; and that the excep- tion is granted subject to the following conditions: that the original design contain no more than one bedroom per unit and with a statement of intent that there are no plans in the future for re-design so that a living unit will have more than one bedroom, except subject to further appeal, and further, that a further statement be given to exercise the option to acquire premises at 215 South Geneva Street. COL. COMSTOCK: Second. VOTE: YES - 5 NO - 1 THE CHAIR: Appeal No. 717. MR. EWANICKI: Move that the application for exceptions be denied for the reason that there are not sufficient practical difficulties nor special conditions because he is the owner of the entire premises of 402-404 West State Street, which amount to a 66 feet frontage. DR. BALDINI: Second. VOTE: YES - 6 NO - 0 I t ' PUBLIC HEARING, BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, CITY OF ITHACA, CITY HALL, Oct.13/66 PRESENT: GEOFFREY WEAVER, Chairman RALPH P. BALDINI GEORGE R. PFANN, JR. W. H. ELWOOD JOHN EWANICKI RICHARD COMSTOCK C. MURRAY VAN MARTER, Building Commissioner, Secretary THE CHAIR: The first case for tonight is No. 716, appeal of McGraw Housing, Inc., and/or Ladies Union Benevolent Society, Ithaca, New York, for permit to construct 49 apartments units at 217-19.23 South Geneva Street, Ithaca, New York, Exception required under provision Section 7, Column 7, of Zoning Ordinance. R-3 District. Do we have some one here to present this case? ALAN H. TREMAN: Alan H. Treman, and I am pinchhitting for Boardman Lee, who has been the attorney in connection with these matters. The petition dates back for some time; this organization was organized late in 1870's for various humanitarian pur_ poses, primarily for orphans and old ladies. In recent years most of the people in Ithaca have known the organization as the "Old Ladies Home", and that is what has been carried on at 514 South Aurora Street for many years. It became apparent that the Old Ladies Home no longer has the importance for the area as it once did, and various people connected with it had in mind trying tocdo something toward modernization or benefits to the community for the corporation to perform. It came up with what might be a housing situation for the benefit of, not completely in the nature of free occupancy, but to furnish an apartment setup Oich would give reasonable cost of housing for the elderly people. In other words, the notice which went out was that the organization was undertaking to expand their activities to pro- vide housing for the elderly, married couples or single people, small but com- plete apartments not to exceed fifty in number. The Ladies Union Benevolent Society caused a separate corporation called the McGraw Housing, Incorporated, to be incorporated, and hope to take advantage of some of the laws of the Federal Housing and the State of New York in keeping with this. Will you permit T. B. Maxfield, Treasurer of the corpora- tion, to explain the details, and Carl Crandall, another Trustee, as I am of the Old Ladies Home corporation, and when we get through we will try to answer any questions. I will ask Mr. Maxfield to present the project. T. B. MAXFIELD: I have been for some years treasurer of the Ladies Union Benevolent Society Estate and also presently of the new corporation, the McGraw Housing, Inc. You might be in- terested in knowing where the name "McGraw" comes from. Jane McGraw turned over the property on South Aurora Street to the Ladies Union Benevolent Societ with the thought that we perpetuate this fund with a corporation to be called McGraw Housing, Inc. -2- T. B. MAXFIELD! This is a non-profit corporation but it will not have an automatic exemption from real estate taxes. The propert on South Aurora Street is exempt from tax because it is a charitable organi- zation and has devoted its resources and income to the care of elderly women. Also, in these changing times, people now have pensions, Social Security and other means of taking care of themselves longer in life, and there is a trend towards independent housing. Naturally, even though there is a preponderance of women of alder ages, they still like to associate with men, so that change has been recognized by this corporation or organization. We contemplate that the apartments will be available to married couples and also to single person ;, man or woman. We hime the problem of having to continue to take care of the small group of women left in the present home, where the Society guaranteed to provide them lifetime care, and that has come to be a considerable respon- sibility. In the year just closed we spent almost $10,000 on medical care for the few remaining residents of that home. Hopefully, that condition will now change. But the basic philosophy is changing and for that reason we have tried to get started a program of providing housing for older people who were able to pay a reasonable rental for their housing and to provide this in the downtown area or near, so these people could continue to be involved in civic and social regulation activities. This is the new development also the we think helps to slow down the aging processes. The mambers of McGraw Housi g therefore, which is an organization sponsored by the Ladies Union BenevolentSoc- iety, are the Trustees of the Ladies Union Benevolent Society, so this is a vehicle employed by the organization which has been in existence since 1870. We have spent a year --- you have been reading in the paper the1ast days of the difficulty in the City in finding a place to construct low cost houseing. There are no vacant lots in the downtown area, and we have spent a year trying to find adequate land to construct this facility whibh we hope will consist of 48, 49 or 50 one-bedroom apartments. The costs we encountered some places were entirely out of line. Our cost is still going to be rather substantial for the land because we have agreed to pay the property owners on South Geneva Street their asking price for the properties on which we now have options. They are 217 Geneva, owned by Joe Burin, 219, Larry Bly, 223, occupied by Mrs Woodhall, and in her name; we also have an option on the rear of 215, occupie by a barn at present, and which belongs to Cutting Motors. This application is for an exception on the lot size for each apartment. We feel we want to present this thing in its narrowest dimers sions. We also have an option on the front part of 215, belonging to Walter Gee. We have not yet decided to exercise that option but this does not in- clude that particular parcel as of now. We have approximately 33,000 square feet of land area. The building will occupy no more than 35% of that area, with parking spaces for 49 cars. It is impossible tosay how many we will nee . Also we will have a small garden space. We think that this development will actually improve the property values in that area. It certainly will act as a buffer between the developing Urban Renewal district which bounds this on the east and help to shield the prmperties on the west of us from the noise and other encroachments that might develop. I shall be glad to answer any questi ns and shall not now take more of your time. THE CHAIR; Do you have the plans with you? A. We have not gone over more than just the outline plan* -3- THE CHAIR: Would you care to show that to the Board? T. B. MAXFIELD and WILLIAM S. DOWNING, of 512 East Seneca Street explain plan to members of Board and those of audience who are interested. MR. DOWNING: This would give 33,834 square feet without the 215 Sputh Geneva Street property, and with it would allow 5,566 more or a total of 39,400 square footage, which would giNe adequate parking space and access to the property. This would give the proper square footage for parking space, which Mr, Van Marter found adequate. MR. MAXFIELD: Doctor Baldini has asked the question about the people for whom this facility would be available and I explains that we are hoping to qualify this project for Section 202, a loan under FHA. This will enable us to construct the building and finance it much more economically than any other way and is one means of enabling us to reduce the rents. I have mentioned this as a non-profit organizatio and the whole project is set up on the basis of average actual costs to each tenant and taking 50 years to amor- tize the Federal Government's loan. The requirements are that occupancy be limited to persons of the age of 62 or older without any other discrimination, and that the in- come of such persons must be not more than $3,000 per year if they are single and $4,100 if a married couple or if two persons are occupying the same apartment, they would have to have a joint income of not more than $4,700. The law makes no reference to the amount of capital a person has. In this respect our program will differ radically from what it has been at the Home on South Hill because we were offering full care. There, if a person had any worldly goods or any expectation of any, they were re- quired to turn this over to the Home and the Federal Govern- ment ove -went does not have that requirement. So that a person may have substantial capital and is still eligible so long as his income does not exceed these figures. Another factor, each apartment must be complete; it must contain a bath room and minimum kitchen facilities so that persons can prepare their own meals. Because of our ex- perience in taking care of older people, we have found that we all ultimately reach a point when we need help, and the women at the Home at present have reached that age, up to 92, so that at the Home we provide three meals a day. In our plans, we hope to provide in addition to thest minimum kitchen facilities, a kitchen and dining facilities on th first floor of this structure so if the need develops, an if the tenants want it, we can perhaps serve one meal a d y to all the tenants, and this is permitted by the governme t so long as costs stay **thin the limits. THE CHAIR: Have you applied for this federal grant? Is it definite that you will? ..4.. MR. MAXFIELD: We have already initiated the application and the federal man has been here. We are assuming our application is accepted; if not, we still have the Mitchell Lama Act in New York State, which we would then investigate next. THE CHAIR: Would that put an age limit on the tenants? MR. MAXFIELD: I believe it does, yes. MR. PFANN: I still do not understand what are the practical diffi•. culties or special conditions which made the regulations governing the lot size impossible to comply with in this situation. In other words, in order to help, we have to make a determination on these matters. It appears that this already is being used for residential purposes. Coul you enumerate? MR. MAXFIELD: The parcels, exclusive of the 215 property, would permit us to erect 22 living units on this 33,700 square footage The cost of this land, including demolition, grading, an so forth, is approximately $100,000 for these parcels. That means we would have a cost for the land alone of over $4,000 per unit for the apartments. THE CHAIR: If you do not use 215, how far would you be from the othe buildings? MR. DOWNING: We are required to have at least 10 feet. The building itself would be about 20 feet, and also over here (indi- cating on pian). MR. TREMAN: I think the Board should realize that directly east of th s Is what is now called automotive row, part of Urban Renewal, and while in effect this is infringing to a certain exten 0 on what is residential, the fact is that this would be a good addition to the area and not more out of place than, for instance, the Cayuga Apartments on North Cayuga Street. I think it will enhance the neighborhood to a great exten to have it there. Apparently there are eneggh parking places to comply with the present law. What we want to d is to have this place available for maybe 45 or 50 families to occupy at a minimum cost. I could say that the committee working on this for the Old Ladies Home has looked over many sites in the central part of the city and this is the only one that we have found that seems applicable. Accor ding to last night's paper, with the other type of dwells g which is being contemplated by the City, they have troubles with City xa acquisition, and we do have this land under option. We do not know where to find a comparable area. How much the government advances, it is probable the or- ganization will have to put in money on this on its own for dining facilities and recreational purposes, which perhaps in the future could be used by other associations -5- of elderly people. There are many groups of older citi- zens who need places to meet and this may be possible to work out a solutionfor their benefit. I just hope that the neighborhood will realize that this will not be at al detrimental to the private residences on three sides and the commercial on the east. We hope that the Board will approve this because we have tried to find a suitable. place all over Ithaca. To divert completely, we have studied all possibilities but for this type of occupancy these other places are not suitable. These people want tobe where they can go on their own, or to church, the movies, or a store, and enjoy life to the utmost. It is housing for the elderly, a non-.profit benevolent organi- zation. For many years we have not asked the United Fund or the Community Chest for any money. Every cent of this will not redound to anybody's profit. It will be a non- profit setrup. All we want to do is make 50 places avail• able to the elderly for their declining years. THE CHAIR: The location is a requirement if you are eligible for the Federal grant - is that correct? MR. TREMAN: Yes. THE CHAIR: Any one to speak in favor? CARL CRANDALL: 207 Cayuga Heights Road. You might consider me an out- lander. I still own an interest lit property on West Hill inside the City. I had quite a lot to do with the selec- tion of this site and I could amplify a bit more as to the reasons for the choice. There is a question of founda tion conditions. Despite the fact that although these people will not be wealthy, they should be able to get to the shops and places of that sort, and that will come much better under Urban Renewal, without walking far. But if you go north of Buffalo Street you are in the muck as far as foundations are concerned, and would result in resortin to piling. The location should be on a street with heavy traffic; it ought to be on the fringe of the residential district where there are changes to business. The Zoning Law of Bourse was adopted ander conditions which no longer prevail in that neighborhood. When you think of the re- quired area upon a plot, it is the rear yard as well to consider. Under Urban Renewal everything is cleaned out in the center of a block. I do not know if they have de- cided exactly what they will do witch that land but I would expect a good deal would be parking. So there is nothing on the east of this property that they would be discrimi- nating against as far as the amount of space left. Also, when you think of the Zoning Ordinance which requires so many square feet for an apartment, you think of a house that will be converted into four or five apartments, and and then the next one does the same thing and you wind up -6- with three or four houses converted to apartments, and al of the opien space has been split up and divided with fenc s. With this project all of this open space will be thrown together. I would question whether under the present conditions the Zoning would have been set for that neigh- borhood of the way it is now. At the time it was set, nobody knew just what the situation would be there. I wo Id like to see the building set back as far from the street as possible. As to the question of hardship, there is the matter of paying an excessive amount for these foundations but there are, after all, people who do not want to sell. You can not just go in and say, "You must sell". So I say that maybe it is a hardship to try to force somebody to sell his property. I think from various points of view, that the Society should try to limit this land taking over to as small an area as they can and still have decent open spaces around it. I think that the full requirement of the Zoning Ordinance for open land would be entirely un- necessary and unreasonable. But you do have these factors. Many decisions on variances are based on a showing of hard. ship. MR. PFANN: That is right. MR. CRANDALL: I am stating this question of foundations and the question of not being able to find another site that meets the re- quirements, the hardship that might be suffered jointly b the neighborhood. I am in favor of the project. MR. DOWNING: I would like to point out ogee more that the application is requesting a variance on the basis of the number of square feet per apartment. The project would meet, so fa as parking places, set-backs, height of buildings, but the number of square feet per apartment would not be met, be- cause of the difficulty in finding adequate sized property available. In this type of apartment development where there are no children the number of square feet per apart- ment becomes less of an issue. You might have 22 apart- ments with an equal number of people. MRS. T. G. MILLER, SR. South Albany Street. I think it will help the neighborhodd and will be a boon to older people. I'have gone up and down South Aurora Street, taking elderly ladie to church and it is difficult* I think it will be wonder- ful for them to go to church and to the movies and it is all there right in the block. THE CHAIR: Reads letter from Lucie G. Bolton, dated October 12, 1966 (Made a part of record) Is there any one here who wishes to speak in opposition? -7- DONALD WELLS: 224 South Geneva Street. When you talk about there being no legal lot in this town other than in the vicinity of the 200 block of South Geneva, I can hardly believe that, that there is no other facility available. This is beyond the bounds of possibility. I received one of these letters. As to the property values at my place, 224 South Geneva Street, I have not heard how it would improve my property values or how the rest of my neighborhood situation could be improved. I am concerned about my neighbors in this block, as well as myself. This includes very distinguished people in this town; this is a young block of people in- terested in maintaining the quality of the block. Would you like to hear the nacres of the people on that block? THE CHAIR: Are they here? MR. WELLS: No, THE CHAIR: Do you represent themin any capacity? MR. WELLS: No, only as for myself. THE CHAIR: Then the answer must be no. MR. WELLS: It is very vague as to how this structure is to be built, how far it is to be set back in one way or another. I would prefer to know how this place is to be built. JANET CANTREL: 228 South Geneva Street. I would endorse everything in Mrs. Bolton's letter and everything that Mr. Wells has sai . This looks to me like the beginning of a marked change in the residential area; It is perhaps like cutting off the dog's tail a little at a time so it won't hurt so much. You go into a multiple housing unit in that lot, which is already critical for walking and parking - this will Bhang the neighborhood and before long somebody else comes along and it is pretty sure we will be concerned with depressed values and many of us are going to be hurt. I feel that i would be unfortunate to jump into this without considering whether you want to re-zone the entire block on both sides to a different type of thing. If not, I think we should b permitted to keep the original character of that lot. -8- THE CHAIR: We will go on to the next case, No. 7179 Appeal of Salvatore I. Pirro, 115 East Green Street, Ithaca, New York, for new construction at 404 West State Street, Ithaca, New York, exception required under provisions Section 7, Column 5,6,7,8,11,12,14 and 15 in B•2 zone. Who is here representing this appellant? STANLEY TSAPIS: If it please the Board, at this time I would like to in- corporate by reference in the record all of the file of The City Building Commissioner's Office concerning this project. My name is Stanley Tsapis, attorney in Ithaca, and I represent Salvatore Pirro, the owner and proprietor of Pirro's Pizzeria on Green Street. As you all know, the City is hoping to make a parking lot there or put in Woolworth's. I would like to open my remarks by reading a letter from the Urban Renewal Agency, for the record. This is undated but it was typed today and it is signed by John F. Blanchard, Relocation Officer, as f6itows: "The Ithaca Urban Renewal Agency feels this appeal of Sal Pirro should be given very careful consideration due to the hardship involved in the reloca- tion of this business. There is at the present time no suitable place for his proper relocation. "We would appreciate every consideration given to this appeal for exceptions at 404 West State Street in an attempt to assist a business displaced by gov- ernmental activity." I would like this entered into the record. I intend to have Mr. Pirro testify, Mr. Hurlbut, Contractor, and Mr. Gersh, briefly to outline our intentions. We are not asking for a variance. The area is properly zoned. We are asking for exceptions. I have before me the recommendations of the City Planning Board, which was to deny this project, and I would like to go into that. First, I think we must prove to this Board that we are requesting exceptions for the reasons of practical diffi- culties which are impossible to comply with. In our moving papers we indicate that it is impossible to comply with the City Ordinance under its present state, to do anything with that lot. No construction is permitted there the reason being that a 40 foot frontage is required and we can not most that. This lot is separately assessed by • the City of Ithaca for $3,100 and it can not be used for construction of any kind under this ordinance. (Cites cases) We are here asking for that exception. That is one practical difficulty and a special condition. Even if we could comply if we had 40 feet, allowing for yards and covering only what is permitted to cover and provide for parking, we could build something about 10 feet by 7 feet. the fact as to whether this condition is unique, we support that by stating to you that there is no other open lot which we can purchase for the purpose of construe ting bhis building in that area. We made a careful survey of the area and we find no building with the exception of one which does not apply to at least one line, or complies with the zoning ordinance as it exists today. I think there is no new construction in that block. There is no great change in this neighborhood by putting in what we as this Board to permit us to do. We feel the conditions are unique and not shared by other paoperties in the area. If there were to be any change in the character of this dis- trict, we point out that this is zoned a business district and the use we intend is within the ordinance. There are other buildings of a similar nature, other businesses of a similar nature. So we also submit that it will not change the character of the neighborhood. What we intend to buil is a steel frame building with a brick front, which I t is a one-story building, which I think you may agree is no unattractive; it will be new and the only new building in that area. That, in addition to what we consider a seriou hardship - the City on the one hand - Mr. Pirro is perfect happy to stay where he is and has been there for six years leased for six years, and he is being displaced by a move- ment for progress in this community; that we quire agree with, but is causing him at this point to be a person with out a place to operate his business. The City Council wen into a turmoil because the Council is concerned with what will happen to the little business man, when you consider Woolworth's. Mr. Pirro owns that particular lot upon whit he wants to construct this building. He has made every effort to obtain other quarters in the City. You can see that the Urban Renewal Agency has not found him a place to go. He will testify as to what he has done to find anothe place. I submit that nothing is proposed here which will change the neighborhood. Again, nobody is a niighborhood likes to change a bit, but the duty of this Board is to the community as a whole. I think this is. a special circum- stance, a happening created by the City and one from which the City should get him out. SALVATORE PIRRO, having first been duly sworn, testified as follows: BY MR. TSAPIS: Your full name is what? A. Salvatore J. Pirro. Q. Do you presently operate the business of Pirro's Pizzeria? A. Yes, at 115 East Green Street, Ithaca, New York. Q. For how long have you been there? A. Going into our eight year. Q. Do you have a written lease covering these premises? A. fes, we do. Q. Have you had a continuous lease for eight years? A. Yes. Q. Did a time come when you learned that you would have to move from this ar a? A. Yes. -10- Q. How did you learn that? A. I learbod it through talk about Urban Renewal going to buy up the properly about seven months. Q. What did you do when you learned about this? A. I started looking for some place to go. Q. Did you find a place? A. Yes. Q. Did you purehase a place? A. Yes. Q. Where is. this located? A. 402 West State Street. Q. Is, there a vacant lot attached to the building there? A. Yes. Q. Do you know if the address there is 404? A. Yes, I believe so. Q. Do you own the premises now occupied by Hart's Pharmacy for twenty-six years? A. Yes. Q. Do you own that building? A. Yes, I do. Q. Did you attempt to obtain other quarters in and about the City of Ithaca before you purchased this? A. Yes, I did. Almost every raaltor in this town has my number to call me and this is how I bought this piece of property. Q. Have you made efforts to rent property on State Street? A. This is impossible. Q. Wby? A. When Ithaca's Urban Renewal went into effect all the rents doubled and tripled. Q. The units you looked at were excessive within the limits of your business? A. That is correct. Q. Did you look any place else? A. Yes, all over the hill and close to the college. This move here is as far as I would like to go. Q. Did you also inqufte through me with reference to renting a building at the chicken shop on West Buffalo Street? A. Yes. Q. Did you learn the rent? A. Yes, over $400. Q. Youfeel that that is beyond your means? A. Definitely; correct. Q. At least twice what you are paying here? A. Yes, it is twice the amount. Q. This building which you propose to construct, have you discussed tt with Mr. Hurlbut? A. Yes. • Q. He,is the man who would construct it for you? A. Yea. Q. WhAt. is the size of the building proposed to be built? A. 30 ffet by 80 feet. Q. Do you know how wide on State Street your lot is? A. I believe 33.2 feet on State Street. Q. How deep is it? A. 84 feet. -11w DR. BALDINI: The lawyer keeps talking about this "lot". This property consists of 402 and 404. MR. TSAPIS: He has title to the two lots, but they are separggely assessed by the City. DR. BALDINI: When did he buy the property? MR. TSAPIS: February 28th, 1966, I believe, the entire property. DR. BALDINI: Two properties in one unit, separately assessed? All right. MR. TSAPIS: Q. Have you an estimate as to what the entire project will cost you? A. About $170000. Q. For the construction? A. Yes, Q. This would not include furnishings and fixtures for the building? A. No, it does not. Q. You are talking about slab, no basement? A. Slab, no basement. Q. I show you two drawings prepared by Mr. Hurlbut and ask you whether or not this is what you propose to construct on that site. Is that the front of the building? A. Right. Q. And this is what it would look like inside? A. Right. Plans shown to Board and those of audience interested. THE CHAIR: All set? MR. TSAPIS: There have been some questions directed, which I want made a part of the record. Q. You are open until approximately one in the morning? A. Yes. Q. There will be music but no dancing? A. Not live music, just juke box, a record player. Q. The seating capacity is 70 people? A. Approximately. Q. Is there a fan of some kind or just a vent? A. This is just to get the heat from the ovens out. Q. This is intended to be installed as close to the building as possible? A. That is correct. Q. Does part of your present operation include a beer license? A. It does. Q. Do you intend to continue this? A. Yes. Q. You will conduct the same business as here, sell beer and soft drinks to go, sandwiches and pizzas? A. Yes, that is the extent of our business, no drinks are served. DR. GALVIN: Any dancing with the juke box? A. No, none. Q. Any go-go girls? A. We had them when there was a fad. This has died out. -12- Q. How long sirme? A. January 1st this year. Q. Tbam are several large trees on the west side of the building. Is it you intent to preserve these? A. If it is possible, yes, MR. TSAPIS: Are any other questions? JAMES BUYOUCOS: Can you tell the percentage of business which is carry ( ut? A. Approximately 75%. BY MR. TSAPIS: Q. Is some of that business delivery business? A. This is carry-.out. Q. Don't some people like myself carry them home? A, This is what I stated as about 75%, between delivery and carry-out. MR. BUYOU60S: The frontage of the lot you bought is 66 feet? MR. TSAPIS: No, 33 feet. There aretwo lots separately assessed. MR. BUYOUCOS: What is his total purchase? MR. TSAPIS: I believe it might be about 66 feet. MR. BUYOUCOS: Yes, it is. THE CHAIR: 402 is not involved in the application. MR. BUYOUCOS: No, this is the terms of the ownership. DUANE HURLBUT, 78 Asbury Road, Ithaca, New York, having first been duly sworn, testified as follows: BY MR. TSAPIS: Q. This building is to be constructed of what material? A. Steel columns, trusses, serving to support the building, roof, basically all steel. (Shows on plans) Q. Is this constructed with a basement? A. Concrete slab. Q. 30 .feet wide? A. Right, Q. Is that the minigium width of building constructed by this corporation? A. Yes, 30 is the minimum size, if smaller, the cost would be much greater. Q. The standard size is 30 feet? A. That is correct. ` Q. What about fire hazard, what about that, would this building be quite fire resistant? A. Yes, this is a steel building, 2 inch fibre gat glass insulation on the outside and we apply our steel skin to it. This insulation has a frame support of 25 foot units and has a class C fire rating, 26 gauge steel, primed on the inside and painted on the outside, and if I bend this back and forth I can take this piece of metal and it gets hot, but the paint will still stick to each edge. The inside will have aat studs bolted to -13- the girds and apply sheet rock to the insides of the walls and use the stringered gird type ceiling with panels, and the building would be of spume masonry construction, aluminum front door and will be of brick of Mr. Pirro's choice. MR. TSAPIS: This is basically as shown ill the plans which are a part of the record and which you prepared for us? A. That is correct. Appellant's Exhibits 1 and 2 marked Q. What is the life of one of these buildings? A. This depends on where the building is placed; next to the ocean there is a tendency to rust. This is of all structural steel, is painted, with the skin on the interior and exterior, with side panm:ts channels so it will not twist. This is a well designed building. The life of a steel builds g would be for tax purposes, 40 years plus. You like to set this up on a 40 year basis. Q. Have you constructed any of these buildings in this area? A. Yes, our last project was for Cayuga Press, the corner of Route 13 and Hanshaw; next door to it on Hanshaw Road is the Eastman Advertising A§enc , 3200 square feet; up right this side of the Gas and Electric, LaFayette Radio was the first building in the area for this type of building and I myself am building a four-unit apartment house for myself out of this type of steel construction, Q. There was some question as to overhang. Is there an overhang on the east and west sides? A. No, a commercial type eavestrough, galvanized steel, nothing is open, and we have a nice trim around the building. This is not an Invader or Chale» lenger model. This is our best type of building, first class, no price cutting, We wanted to give it character and I suggested a 3 foot overhang on the front side and the side of the building back of the sidewalk, and it would help in case of rain. I recommend that this building be set bac with the brick structure on each side of the front door, so one can grow grass or flowers in the front and people would have to walk around this. He can have flowers or grass in front. The overhang is a help to enhance the beauty of the building, FREDERICK GOODWIN: 108 North Plain Street. Where would the building be located? A. One foot from the north edge from the property line. Q. Where would the water go? A. The water won't run sideways because there are ribs in this construction. This skin comes in 3 foot widths up to 40 feet long and the ribs will guide the water to the edge so no water will be coming off the back of the building. MR. TSAPIS: Call Mr. Gersh. DAVID GERSH, having first been duly sworn, testified as follows: MR. TSAPIS: Q. Did I ask you to look at this area? A. Yes, you did. Q. With reference as to parking? A. Right. -14- Q. Is there street parking on both sides of Plain Street? A. There is. Q. Metered or unmetered? A. Well, on the northwest side of Plain, unmetered parking, on the southeest side also, and on the southeast side of Plain there are no meters. The only restrictions on the northeast side of Plain were two-hour parking. Q. With reference to State Street is there metered parking along the front of this building? A. Yes. Q. Is there a City parking lot within 500 feet distant from the proposed sitf ? A. Yes, the municipal lot. Q. How many meters did you count there today? A. 44, Q. How far from this site is it? A. About 400 feet; I paced it off. DR, BALDINI: To the corner of the municipal lot, the southeast corner? A. Yes. Are you aware the meters are to be taken out? MR. TSABIS: No, but we are aware all meters taken would be replaced. DR. BALDINI: I think this is west of the fire station, west of the lot on the State Street side, not west of the fire station. I also think we will not replace the 28 meters which are being removed for the Central Fire Station. MR, TSAPIS: Q. The only other thing then is with reference to the buildings that exist in the area - how many comply with the present Zoning Ordinance? A. I do not think any of them. Q. With reference to the 10 foot set-back and side yard? A. Yes, Q. Also did you measure west of the proposed site to determine how close is the nearest building? A. Yes, about 25 feet. Q. This does not include the 3 foot side yard we would have? A. Right. Q. With reference to loading zone space, are there any spaces marked for loading zones in that area? A. Yes, about two meters. Down from the Ptrro property is a no parking loading zone right on West State Street. Q. Are they shown in the picture which is Exhibit 2? A. Yes, they are. DR. BALDINI: Is there a time limit on each? A. Yes, up to noon. MR. TSAPIS: The purpose of bringing that out was to show that there are places for loading and unloading. I think that is all. Any questions? DR. BALDINI: You said that there are no properties in that area that conform to the Zoning Ordinance about setback. Did you measure the front walk? A. I said in my judgmnet there are no properties in that vicinity which compl ' -15- comply with all the requirements in the Zoning Ordinance. MR. TSAPIS: Q. Did you make some computations to determine that we attempted to comply with every recommendation? Approximately how much building space we woul have? A. Yes, something like 700 square feet of building space. BY MR. BUYOUCOS: This property is located diagonally from the Ithaca Theat e? A. Yes. Q. Did you take account of the availability of parking space at night between 6:30 and 11:00? A. No. MR. TSAPIS: Basically, gentlemen, that is our case. I would like to close by trying to refute each and every point raised by the Planning Board as findings of fact. First, they said there is no off- street parking. That is true. Neither does any other lot in the area, and we could find none. Second, there is parking within 500 feet. There is a City lot there that plans to expand it. Third, with reference to the last sentence under their 111.11, the proximity of streets - that is true of every building in the City. How could we qualify? With reference to loading spaces , 1 I indicated that there are two loading spaces available for use, and there is no intention to ask the City to take out any unmetered parking and any taken out would be greatly made up by the tax revenues paid by Mr. Pirro. We admit that we do not comply with the zoning restrictions, but nothing could be con- strutted on that lot that did. With reference to fire hazard, the building would be all steel and would be fire resistent. With reference to point (4), that no hardship is shown, we take exception; first, we are not required to show hardship under the ordinance, and second, I feel that we have shown hard., ship. I know that you gentlemen will give us your consideration. THE CHAIR: Any one here appeqring in favor of this appeal? None. Any one appearing in opposition to this appeal? BRIAN NEVIN: 408 West State Street. I am a neighbor. I made a few points as I listened. First, we as neighbors would be happy to have a new business as long as it conforms to zoning. I do not know the exact measurements but I still think that a business such as a doctor's office could conform. I agree that a restaurant can not begin to. We are all sorry that Urban Renewal is kicking business out but I do not think that shoul hinder the rest of us already in existence. We are immediate private neighbor and also have a business across the street. My main disagreement is that this should be a hardship situation. That property is a 66 foot property, not a 33 foot property. When it was on the market, it was all on the market. We tried to buy it. It was mentioned if it was to be sold separately and they said, "No, it had to be purchased as a unit". It is a good investment for the price paid. There is no regson why you can not put it in the brick builds g which he bought it for, or as I would assume. But we would be delighted to have the Hart Pharmacy there. There are larger properties on Green Street in the block immediately behind. As to minor points, the property at 408 West • -16- State 16-State Street, the building is considerably less from the property line which was mentioned and that property was bought in 1965. I admit it was not close until January 27, 1966. It is not a matter of asking for one variance, but for eight exceptions, and certainly that building - I think it looks like a fireproof building for the country and do not think it is the type of building Ithaca should have on a main street of this town. To the west there are five private dwellings, to the north, two, and across the street, three. It cer- tainly would change the character of that area. I know those properties are not going to change for a long time. The property, since it has been purchased, tas been maintained exactly once as far as the exterior goes. The current proper which they are occupying is not exactly what we would like as a n6ighbor. An there are two large trees on the property, but I think they could not properl be left if that business was put up. They would be killed, and therefore the property would be extremely open to adjacent buildings. MR. BUYOUCOS: Have you observed the condition of parking there at night between 6:30 and 11:00? Well, it is very tight there. Also I notice that the hours of Pirro's is from four to two in the evening. This type of busiiness generates noise and odors. I know that goes with the business. C. S. SO'UTHWICK, JR. Private owner of 408 and 409 West State Street. I happen to be a person who sits up quite late. There is practically no parking in that lot of West State Street from 6:00 A.M. to 2:00 P.M. Mr. Tsapis said that it would not change the character of the neig - borhood. The property in question is surrounded by three private residences and the Hart Pharmacy. Again, since they purchased the property, the lawn has been mowed once. It got knee high and was mowed, and now it has gotten so high it has fallen over. At 409 West Street Street we had both off-street parking, and you mentioned that no place down there was offered for this. MRS. ROBERT DEELEY; 214 North Plain Street, a co-owner of property at 412 West State Street along with my mother and I am here also representing her. We are opposed to this building coming in there. I was born there and raised there and I know that when the property was sold to Mr. Putney that he bought it just for the flowers and trees and I am hoping that it will stay that way. MR. BUYOUCOS: I am here to speak for Doctor Galvin. Doctor Galvin lives at 401 West State Street, the southwest corner of Plain and State. He lives there and has his office there, has hours in the evening between 7:00 and 10:30 and 11:00 and has a full office every night. He is not as immediately concerned as the neighbors on the north except that perhaps some deteriorating influence would affect him and he relies on the Zoning Ordinance, but he is concerned about the parking. The Ithaca Theatre is there and it is just in the evening that these customers start occupying ` these parking spaces and many of his patients are infirm, so he would like as many parking spaces available as possible. Obviously the nature of this busi- ness is not going to be where people park and stroll around and go back later. A great bulk of this business if carry out and these pzttaRta people going there want to park as closely as possible to this business, so all of a sudden they fill the available parking area, at a time when he does not have as much parking space as can be used. This influx of customers, possibly 70 people, -17- . 1 could be in the restaurant at one time, and the Zoning Ordinance requires one prking space to each five seats. So his concern is primarily the traffic late at night. There are places for off-street parking in that area. At the cor- ner of Corn and West State Streets there is a vacant lot where you can have off-street parking. Doctor Galvin realizes that this use is permitted but what he is asking you here is to take into account the various restrictive condi- tions in the Zoning Ordinance, the waiver of which will adversely affect him. Mr. Pirro does own 66 feet and can use this land and these problems would not be necessary. I think Urban Renewal is rather irrelevant but maybe it is relevant as it causes me to learn that it is kicking some of my clients out. But we are not here because we are fearful of change. We do think we have a good idea of what the traffic conditions would be. Our objection is not frivoo lous; we have considered it very seriously before we came here. Doctor Galvin has been in this location since 1940, Mr. Pirro may claim hardship, but again, he has 66 feet. Just think what an exception to the reasonable requirements of the Zon!'ptg Ordinance would do to Doctor Galvin's patients, who hope that they will be able to find a place to park where they can get to his office, and that is the gist of his objections. MISS LYDIA HARVEY: 108 South Plain Street. I would say that the parking is already terrible right now; they start at seven in the morning and the block is filled on both sides of the street and it stays until two, three, or four o'clock in the morning. My sleeping room is right on the front and there is many a time I haven't gotten to sleep from two to after four in the morning because of the noise. Not only that, but the litter is just terrible, beer cans, whiskey and pop bottles, and last Sunday morning I came out and there was a bottle broken on the sidewalk. I did not clean it up until after church. With the VFW and the Ithaca Theatre it is just terrible. My family comes to see me and they drive for three or four blocks before they can park. If we get a restaurant down there and they stay around until one in the morning, I think we had all better move out. MR. SOUTHWICK: His offer was mdde in September of 1965, several months before he received an eviction by Urban Renewal, MR. GOODWIN: My children's bedrooms would be right alongside that res- taurant and I am afraid the place would be noisy, though I have no objection to a bar room.