HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1966-10-13 r
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EXECUTIVE SESSION, BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, CITY HALL, OCTOBER 13, 1966
THE CHAIR: Let us consider Appeal No. 716.
MR. PFANN: Move that the application for exception be granted be-
cause the applicant shows special conditions and practice
difficulties which render the proposed use of the land
unreasonable under the existing ordinance, namely,
1) that the cost of acquisition, demolition and construc-
tion of the allowable number of units under the existing
ordinance makes the per unit cost prohibitive;
2) that since elderly people only would be allowed in
the project, the required land space of 1500 square feet
per unit does not seem justifiable; and that the excep-
tion is granted subject to the following conditions: that
the original design contain no more than one bedroom per
unit and with a statement of intent that there are no
plans in the future for re-design so that a living unit
will have more than one bedroom, except subject to further
appeal, and further, that a further statement be given to
exercise the option to acquire premises at 215 South
Geneva Street.
COL. COMSTOCK: Second.
VOTE: YES - 5 NO - 1
THE CHAIR: Appeal No. 717.
MR. EWANICKI: Move that the application for exceptions be denied for the
reason that there are not sufficient practical difficulties
nor special conditions because he is the owner of the
entire premises of 402-404 West State Street, which amount
to a 66 feet frontage.
DR. BALDINI: Second.
VOTE: YES - 6 NO - 0
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PUBLIC HEARING, BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, CITY OF ITHACA, CITY HALL, Oct.13/66
PRESENT:
GEOFFREY WEAVER, Chairman
RALPH P. BALDINI
GEORGE R. PFANN, JR.
W. H. ELWOOD
JOHN EWANICKI
RICHARD COMSTOCK
C. MURRAY VAN MARTER, Building Commissioner, Secretary
THE CHAIR: The first case for tonight is No. 716, appeal of McGraw
Housing, Inc., and/or Ladies Union Benevolent Society,
Ithaca, New York, for permit to construct 49 apartments
units at 217-19.23 South Geneva Street, Ithaca, New York,
Exception required under provision Section 7, Column 7,
of Zoning Ordinance. R-3 District.
Do we have some one here to present this case?
ALAN H. TREMAN: Alan H. Treman, and I am pinchhitting for Boardman Lee,
who has been the attorney in connection with these matters.
The petition dates back for some time; this organization
was organized late in 1870's for various humanitarian pur_
poses, primarily for orphans and old ladies. In recent
years most of the people in Ithaca have known the organization as the "Old
Ladies Home", and that is what has been carried on at 514 South Aurora Street
for many years. It became apparent that the Old Ladies Home no longer has the
importance for the area as it once did, and various people connected with it
had in mind trying tocdo something toward modernization or benefits to the
community for the corporation to perform. It came up with what might be a
housing situation for the benefit of, not completely in the nature of free
occupancy, but to furnish an apartment setup Oich would give reasonable cost
of housing for the elderly people. In other words, the notice which went out
was that the organization was undertaking to expand their activities to pro-
vide housing for the elderly, married couples or single people, small but com-
plete apartments not to exceed fifty in number. The Ladies Union Benevolent
Society caused a separate corporation called the McGraw Housing, Incorporated,
to be incorporated, and hope to take advantage of some of the laws of the
Federal Housing and the State of New York in keeping with this.
Will you permit T. B. Maxfield, Treasurer of the corpora-
tion, to explain the details, and Carl Crandall, another Trustee, as I am of
the Old Ladies Home corporation, and when we get through we will try to answer
any questions. I will ask Mr. Maxfield to present the project.
T. B. MAXFIELD: I have been for some years treasurer of the Ladies Union
Benevolent Society Estate and also presently of the new
corporation, the McGraw Housing, Inc. You might be in-
terested in knowing where the name "McGraw" comes from. Jane McGraw turned
over the property on South Aurora Street to the Ladies Union Benevolent Societ
with the thought that we perpetuate this fund with a corporation to be called
McGraw Housing, Inc.
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T. B. MAXFIELD! This is a non-profit corporation but it will not have an
automatic exemption from real estate taxes. The propert
on South Aurora Street is exempt from tax because it is a charitable organi-
zation and has devoted its resources and income to the care of elderly women.
Also, in these changing times, people now have pensions, Social Security and
other means of taking care of themselves longer in life, and there is a trend
towards independent housing. Naturally, even though there is a preponderance
of women of alder ages, they still like to associate with men, so that change
has been recognized by this corporation or organization. We contemplate that
the apartments will be available to married couples and also to single person ;,
man or woman. We hime the problem of having to continue to take care of the
small group of women left in the present home, where the Society guaranteed
to provide them lifetime care, and that has come to be a considerable respon-
sibility. In the year just closed we spent almost $10,000 on medical care
for the few remaining residents of that home. Hopefully, that condition will
now change. But the basic philosophy is changing and for that reason we have
tried to get started a program of providing housing for older people who were
able to pay a reasonable rental for their housing and to provide this in the
downtown area or near, so these people could continue to be involved in
civic and social regulation activities. This is the new development also the
we think helps to slow down the aging processes. The mambers of McGraw Housi g
therefore, which is an organization sponsored by the Ladies Union BenevolentSoc-
iety, are the Trustees of the Ladies Union Benevolent Society, so this is a
vehicle employed by the organization which has been in existence since 1870.
We have spent a year --- you have been reading in the paper the1ast days of
the difficulty in the City in finding a place to construct low cost houseing.
There are no vacant lots in the downtown area, and we have spent a year trying
to find adequate land to construct this facility whibh we hope will consist
of 48, 49 or 50 one-bedroom apartments. The costs we encountered some places
were entirely out of line. Our cost is still going to be rather substantial
for the land because we have agreed to pay the property owners on South Geneva
Street their asking price for the properties on which we now have options.
They are 217 Geneva, owned by Joe Burin, 219, Larry Bly, 223, occupied by Mrs
Woodhall, and in her name; we also have an option on the rear of 215, occupie
by a barn at present, and which belongs to Cutting Motors.
This application is for an exception on the lot size for
each apartment. We feel we want to present this thing in its narrowest dimers
sions. We also have an option on the front part of 215, belonging to Walter
Gee. We have not yet decided to exercise that option but this does not in-
clude that particular parcel as of now. We have approximately 33,000 square
feet of land area. The building will occupy no more than 35% of that area,
with parking spaces for 49 cars. It is impossible tosay how many we will nee .
Also we will have a small garden space. We think that this development will
actually improve the property values in that area. It certainly will act as
a buffer between the developing Urban Renewal district which bounds this on
the east and help to shield the prmperties on the west of us from the noise and
other encroachments that might develop. I shall be glad to answer any questi ns
and shall not now take more of your time.
THE CHAIR; Do you have the plans with you?
A. We have not gone over more than just the outline plan*
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THE CHAIR: Would you care to show that to the Board?
T. B. MAXFIELD and WILLIAM S. DOWNING, of 512 East Seneca Street explain plan
to members of Board and those of audience who are interested.
MR. DOWNING: This would give 33,834 square feet without the 215 Sputh
Geneva Street property, and with it would allow 5,566
more or a total of 39,400 square footage, which would giNe
adequate parking space and access to the property. This
would give the proper square footage for parking space,
which Mr, Van Marter found adequate.
MR. MAXFIELD: Doctor Baldini has asked the question about the people
for whom this facility would be available and I explains
that we are hoping to qualify this project for Section 202,
a loan under FHA. This will enable us to construct the
building and finance it much more economically than any
other way and is one means of enabling us to reduce the
rents. I have mentioned this as a non-profit organizatio
and the whole project is set up on the basis of average
actual costs to each tenant and taking 50 years to amor-
tize the Federal Government's loan. The requirements are
that occupancy be limited to persons of the age of 62 or
older without any other discrimination, and that the in-
come of such persons must be not more than $3,000 per year
if they are single and $4,100 if a married couple or if
two persons are occupying the same apartment, they would
have to have a joint income of not more than $4,700. The
law makes no reference to the amount of capital a person
has. In this respect our program will differ radically
from what it has been at the Home on South Hill because
we were offering full care. There, if a person had any
worldly goods or any expectation of any, they were re-
quired to turn this over to the Home and the Federal Govern-
ment
ove -went does not have that requirement. So that a person may
have substantial capital and is still eligible so long as
his income does not exceed these figures.
Another factor, each apartment must be complete; it must
contain a bath room and minimum kitchen facilities so that
persons can prepare their own meals. Because of our ex-
perience in taking care of older people, we have found that
we all ultimately reach a point when we need help, and the
women at the Home at present have reached that age, up to
92, so that at the Home we provide three meals a day. In
our plans, we hope to provide in addition to thest minimum
kitchen facilities, a kitchen and dining facilities on th
first floor of this structure so if the need develops, an
if the tenants want it, we can perhaps serve one meal a d y
to all the tenants, and this is permitted by the governme t
so long as costs stay **thin the limits.
THE CHAIR: Have you applied for this federal grant? Is it definite
that you will?
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MR. MAXFIELD: We have already initiated the application and the federal
man has been here. We are assuming our application is
accepted; if not, we still have the Mitchell Lama Act in
New York State, which we would then investigate next.
THE CHAIR: Would that put an age limit on the tenants?
MR. MAXFIELD: I believe it does, yes.
MR. PFANN: I still do not understand what are the practical diffi•.
culties or special conditions which made the regulations
governing the lot size impossible to comply with in this
situation. In other words, in order to help, we have to
make a determination on these matters. It appears that
this already is being used for residential purposes. Coul
you enumerate?
MR. MAXFIELD: The parcels, exclusive of the 215 property, would permit
us to erect 22 living units on this 33,700 square footage
The cost of this land, including demolition, grading, an
so forth, is approximately $100,000 for these parcels.
That means we would have a cost for the land alone of over
$4,000 per unit for the apartments.
THE CHAIR: If you do not use 215, how far would you be from the othe
buildings?
MR. DOWNING: We are required to have at least 10 feet. The building
itself would be about 20 feet, and also over here (indi-
cating on pian).
MR. TREMAN: I think the Board should realize that directly east of th s
Is what is now called automotive row, part of Urban Renewal,
and while in effect this is infringing to a certain exten
0 on what is residential, the fact is that this would be a
good addition to the area and not more out of place than,
for instance, the Cayuga Apartments on North Cayuga Street.
I think it will enhance the neighborhood to a great exten
to have it there. Apparently there are eneggh parking
places to comply with the present law. What we want to d
is to have this place available for maybe 45 or 50 families
to occupy at a minimum cost. I could say that the committee
working on this for the Old Ladies Home has looked over
many sites in the central part of the city and this is the
only one that we have found that seems applicable. Accor
ding to last night's paper, with the other type of dwells g
which is being contemplated by the City, they have troubles
with City xa acquisition, and we do have this land under
option. We do not know where to find a comparable area.
How much the government advances, it is probable the or-
ganization will have to put in money on this on its own
for dining facilities and recreational purposes, which
perhaps in the future could be used by other associations
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of elderly people. There are many groups of older citi-
zens who need places to meet and this may be possible to
work out a solutionfor their benefit. I just hope that
the neighborhood will realize that this will not be at al
detrimental to the private residences on three sides and
the commercial on the east. We hope that the Board will
approve this because we have tried to find a suitable.
place all over Ithaca. To divert completely, we have
studied all possibilities but for this type of occupancy
these other places are not suitable. These people want
tobe where they can go on their own, or to church, the
movies, or a store, and enjoy life to the utmost. It is
housing for the elderly, a non-.profit benevolent organi-
zation. For many years we have not asked the United Fund
or the Community Chest for any money. Every cent of this
will not redound to anybody's profit. It will be a non-
profit setrup. All we want to do is make 50 places avail•
able to the elderly for their declining years.
THE CHAIR: The location is a requirement if you are eligible for the
Federal grant - is that correct?
MR. TREMAN: Yes.
THE CHAIR: Any one to speak in favor?
CARL CRANDALL: 207 Cayuga Heights Road. You might consider me an out-
lander. I still own an interest lit property on West Hill
inside the City. I had quite a lot to do with the selec-
tion of this site and I could amplify a bit more as to
the reasons for the choice. There is a question of founda
tion conditions. Despite the fact that although these
people will not be wealthy, they should be able to get to
the shops and places of that sort, and that will come much
better under Urban Renewal, without walking far. But if
you go north of Buffalo Street you are in the muck as far
as foundations are concerned, and would result in resortin
to piling. The location should be on a street with heavy
traffic; it ought to be on the fringe of the residential
district where there are changes to business. The Zoning
Law of Bourse was adopted ander conditions which no longer
prevail in that neighborhood. When you think of the re-
quired area upon a plot, it is the rear yard as well to
consider. Under Urban Renewal everything is cleaned out
in the center of a block. I do not know if they have de-
cided exactly what they will do witch that land but I would
expect a good deal would be parking. So there is nothing
on the east of this property that they would be discrimi-
nating against as far as the amount of space left. Also,
when you think of the Zoning Ordinance which requires so
many square feet for an apartment, you think of a house
that will be converted into four or five apartments, and
and then the next one does the same thing and you wind up
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with three or four houses converted to apartments, and al
of the opien space has been split up and divided with fenc s.
With this project all of this open space will be thrown
together. I would question whether under the present
conditions the Zoning would have been set for that neigh-
borhood of the way it is now. At the time it was set,
nobody knew just what the situation would be there. I wo Id
like to see the building set back as far from the street
as possible.
As to the question of hardship, there is the matter of
paying an excessive amount for these foundations but there
are, after all, people who do not want to sell. You can
not just go in and say, "You must sell". So I say that
maybe it is a hardship to try to force somebody to sell
his property. I think from various points of view, that
the Society should try to limit this land taking over to
as small an area as they can and still have decent open
spaces around it. I think that the full requirement of
the Zoning Ordinance for open land would be entirely un-
necessary and unreasonable. But you do have these factors.
Many decisions on variances are based on a showing of hard.
ship.
MR. PFANN: That is right.
MR. CRANDALL: I am stating this question of foundations and the question
of not being able to find another site that meets the re-
quirements, the hardship that might be suffered jointly b
the neighborhood. I am in favor of the project.
MR. DOWNING: I would like to point out ogee more that the application
is requesting a variance on the basis of the number of
square feet per apartment. The project would meet, so fa
as parking places, set-backs, height of buildings, but the
number of square feet per apartment would not be met, be-
cause of the difficulty in finding adequate sized property
available. In this type of apartment development where
there are no children the number of square feet per apart-
ment becomes less of an issue. You might have 22 apart-
ments with an equal number of people.
MRS. T. G. MILLER, SR. South Albany Street. I think it will help the
neighborhodd and will be a boon to older people. I'have
gone up and down South Aurora Street, taking elderly ladie
to church and it is difficult* I think it will be wonder-
ful for them to go to church and to the movies and it is
all there right in the block.
THE CHAIR: Reads letter from Lucie G. Bolton, dated October 12, 1966
(Made a part of record)
Is there any one here who wishes to speak in opposition?
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DONALD WELLS: 224 South Geneva Street. When you talk about there being
no legal lot in this town other than in the vicinity of
the 200 block of South Geneva, I can hardly believe that,
that there is no other facility available. This is beyond
the bounds of possibility. I received one of these letters.
As to the property values at my place, 224 South Geneva
Street, I have not heard how it would improve my property
values or how the rest of my neighborhood situation could
be improved. I am concerned about my neighbors in this
block, as well as myself. This includes very distinguished
people in this town; this is a young block of people in-
terested in maintaining the quality of the block. Would
you like to hear the nacres of the people on that block?
THE CHAIR: Are they here?
MR. WELLS: No,
THE CHAIR: Do you represent themin any capacity?
MR. WELLS: No, only as for myself.
THE CHAIR: Then the answer must be no.
MR. WELLS: It is very vague as to how this structure is to be built,
how far it is to be set back in one way or another. I
would prefer to know how this place is to be built.
JANET CANTREL: 228 South Geneva Street. I would endorse everything in
Mrs. Bolton's letter and everything that Mr. Wells has sai .
This looks to me like the beginning of a marked change in
the residential area; It is perhaps like cutting off the
dog's tail a little at a time so it won't hurt so much.
You go into a multiple housing unit in that lot, which is
already critical for walking and parking - this will Bhang
the neighborhood and before long somebody else comes along
and it is pretty sure we will be concerned with depressed
values and many of us are going to be hurt. I feel that i
would be unfortunate to jump into this without considering
whether you want to re-zone the entire block on both sides
to a different type of thing. If not, I think we should b
permitted to keep the original character of that lot.
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THE CHAIR: We will go on to the next case, No. 7179 Appeal of
Salvatore I. Pirro, 115 East Green Street, Ithaca, New
York, for new construction at 404 West State Street,
Ithaca, New York, exception required under provisions
Section 7, Column 5,6,7,8,11,12,14 and 15 in B•2 zone.
Who is here representing this appellant?
STANLEY TSAPIS: If it please the Board, at this time I would like to in-
corporate by reference in the record all of the file of
The City Building Commissioner's Office concerning this
project. My name is Stanley Tsapis, attorney in Ithaca,
and I represent Salvatore Pirro, the owner and proprietor
of Pirro's Pizzeria on Green Street. As you all know,
the City is hoping to make a parking lot there or put in
Woolworth's. I would like to open my remarks by reading
a letter from the Urban Renewal Agency, for the record.
This is undated but it was typed today and it is signed
by John F. Blanchard, Relocation Officer, as f6itows:
"The Ithaca Urban Renewal Agency feels this appeal of Sal Pirro should be
given very careful consideration due to the hardship involved in the reloca-
tion of this business. There is at the present time no suitable place for
his proper relocation.
"We would appreciate every consideration given to this appeal for exceptions
at 404 West State Street in an attempt to assist a business displaced by gov-
ernmental activity."
I would like this entered into the record. I intend to
have Mr. Pirro testify, Mr. Hurlbut, Contractor, and Mr.
Gersh, briefly to outline our intentions.
We are not asking for a variance. The area is properly
zoned. We are asking for exceptions. I have before me
the recommendations of the City Planning Board, which was
to deny this project, and I would like to go into that.
First, I think we must prove to this Board that we are
requesting exceptions for the reasons of practical diffi-
culties which are impossible to comply with. In our
moving papers we indicate that it is impossible to comply
with the City Ordinance under its present state, to do
anything with that lot. No construction is permitted there
the reason being that a 40 foot frontage is required and
we can not most that. This lot is separately assessed by
• the City of Ithaca for $3,100 and it can not be used for
construction of any kind under this ordinance. (Cites
cases) We are here asking for that exception. That is
one practical difficulty and a special condition. Even
if we could comply if we had 40 feet, allowing for yards
and covering only what is permitted to cover and provide
for parking, we could build something about 10 feet by
7 feet. the fact as to whether this condition is unique,
we support that by stating to you that there is no other
open lot which we can purchase for the purpose of construe
ting bhis building in that area. We made a careful survey
of the area and we find no building with the exception of
one which does not apply to at least one line, or complies
with the zoning ordinance as it exists today. I think
there is no new construction in that block. There is no
great change in this neighborhood by putting in what we as
this Board to permit us to do. We feel the conditions are
unique and not shared by other paoperties in the area. If
there were to be any change in the character of this dis-
trict, we point out that this is zoned a business district
and the use we intend is within the ordinance. There are
other buildings of a similar nature, other businesses of a
similar nature. So we also submit that it will not change
the character of the neighborhood. What we intend to buil
is a steel frame building with a brick front, which I t
is a one-story building, which I think you may agree is no
unattractive; it will be new and the only new building in
that area. That, in addition to what we consider a seriou
hardship - the City on the one hand - Mr. Pirro is perfect
happy to stay where he is and has been there for six years
leased for six years, and he is being displaced by a move-
ment for progress in this community; that we quire agree
with, but is causing him at this point to be a person with
out a place to operate his business. The City Council wen
into a turmoil because the Council is concerned with what
will happen to the little business man, when you consider
Woolworth's. Mr. Pirro owns that particular lot upon whit
he wants to construct this building. He has made every
effort to obtain other quarters in the City. You can see
that the Urban Renewal Agency has not found him a place to
go. He will testify as to what he has done to find anothe
place. I submit that nothing is proposed here which will
change the neighborhood. Again, nobody is a niighborhood
likes to change a bit, but the duty of this Board is to the
community as a whole. I think this is. a special circum-
stance, a happening created by the City and one from which
the City should get him out.
SALVATORE PIRRO, having first been duly sworn, testified
as follows:
BY MR. TSAPIS: Your full name is what?
A. Salvatore J. Pirro.
Q. Do you presently operate the business of Pirro's Pizzeria?
A. Yes, at 115 East Green Street, Ithaca, New York.
Q. For how long have you been there?
A. Going into our eight year.
Q. Do you have a written lease covering these premises?
A. fes, we do.
Q. Have you had a continuous lease for eight years?
A. Yes.
Q. Did a time come when you learned that you would have to move from this ar a?
A. Yes.
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Q. How did you learn that?
A. I learbod it through talk about Urban Renewal going to buy up the properly
about seven months.
Q. What did you do when you learned about this?
A. I started looking for some place to go.
Q. Did you find a place?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you purehase a place?
A. Yes.
Q. Where is. this located?
A. 402 West State Street.
Q. Is, there a vacant lot attached to the building there?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know if the address there is 404?
A. Yes, I believe so.
Q. Do you own the premises now occupied by Hart's Pharmacy for twenty-six
years?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you own that building?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Did you attempt to obtain other quarters in and about the City of Ithaca
before you purchased this?
A. Yes, I did. Almost every raaltor in this town has my number to call me
and this is how I bought this piece of property.
Q. Have you made efforts to rent property on State Street?
A. This is impossible.
Q. Wby?
A. When Ithaca's Urban Renewal went into effect all the rents doubled and
tripled.
Q. The units you looked at were excessive within the limits of your business?
A. That is correct.
Q. Did you look any place else?
A. Yes, all over the hill and close to the college. This move here is as
far as I would like to go.
Q. Did you also inqufte through me with reference to renting a building at
the chicken shop on West Buffalo Street?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you learn the rent?
A. Yes, over $400.
Q. Youfeel that that is beyond your means?
A. Definitely; correct.
Q. At least twice what you are paying here?
A. Yes, it is twice the amount.
Q. This building which you propose to construct, have you discussed tt with
Mr. Hurlbut?
A. Yes.
• Q. He,is the man who would construct it for you?
A. Yea.
Q. WhAt. is the size of the building proposed to be built?
A. 30 ffet by 80 feet.
Q. Do you know how wide on State Street your lot is?
A. I believe 33.2 feet on State Street.
Q. How deep is it?
A. 84 feet.
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DR. BALDINI: The lawyer keeps talking about this "lot". This property
consists of 402 and 404.
MR. TSAPIS: He has title to the two lots, but they are separggely
assessed by the City.
DR. BALDINI: When did he buy the property?
MR. TSAPIS: February 28th, 1966, I believe, the entire property.
DR. BALDINI: Two properties in one unit, separately assessed? All right.
MR. TSAPIS:
Q. Have you an estimate as to what the entire project will cost you?
A. About $170000.
Q. For the construction?
A. Yes,
Q. This would not include furnishings and fixtures for the building?
A. No, it does not.
Q. You are talking about slab, no basement?
A. Slab, no basement.
Q. I show you two drawings prepared by Mr. Hurlbut and ask you whether or not
this is what you propose to construct on that site. Is that the front of
the building?
A. Right.
Q. And this is what it would look like inside?
A. Right.
Plans shown to Board and those of audience interested.
THE CHAIR: All set?
MR. TSAPIS: There have been some questions directed, which I want
made a part of the record.
Q. You are open until approximately one in the morning?
A. Yes.
Q. There will be music but no dancing?
A. Not live music, just juke box, a record player.
Q. The seating capacity is 70 people?
A. Approximately.
Q. Is there a fan of some kind or just a vent?
A. This is just to get the heat from the ovens out.
Q. This is intended to be installed as close to the building as possible?
A. That is correct.
Q. Does part of your present operation include a beer license?
A. It does.
Q. Do you intend to continue this?
A. Yes.
Q. You will conduct the same business as here, sell beer and soft drinks to
go, sandwiches and pizzas?
A. Yes, that is the extent of our business, no drinks are served.
DR. GALVIN: Any dancing with the juke box?
A. No, none.
Q. Any go-go girls?
A. We had them when there was a fad. This has died out.
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Q. How long sirme?
A. January 1st this year.
Q. Tbam are several large trees on the west side of the building. Is it you
intent to preserve these?
A. If it is possible, yes,
MR. TSAPIS: Are any other questions?
JAMES BUYOUCOS: Can you tell the percentage of business which is carry ( ut?
A. Approximately 75%.
BY MR. TSAPIS:
Q. Is some of that business delivery business?
A. This is carry-.out.
Q. Don't some people like myself carry them home?
A, This is what I stated as about 75%, between delivery and carry-out.
MR. BUYOU60S: The frontage of the lot you bought is 66 feet?
MR. TSAPIS: No, 33 feet. There aretwo lots separately assessed.
MR. BUYOUCOS: What is his total purchase?
MR. TSAPIS: I believe it might be about 66 feet.
MR. BUYOUCOS: Yes, it is.
THE CHAIR: 402 is not involved in the application.
MR. BUYOUCOS: No, this is the terms of the ownership.
DUANE HURLBUT, 78 Asbury Road, Ithaca, New York, having
first been duly sworn, testified as follows:
BY MR. TSAPIS:
Q. This building is to be constructed of what material?
A. Steel columns, trusses, serving to support the building, roof, basically
all steel. (Shows on plans)
Q. Is this constructed with a basement?
A. Concrete slab.
Q. 30 .feet wide?
A. Right,
Q. Is that the minigium width of building constructed by this corporation?
A. Yes, 30 is the minimum size, if smaller, the cost would be much greater.
Q. The standard size is 30 feet?
A. That is correct.
` Q. What about fire hazard, what about that, would this building be quite fire
resistant?
A. Yes, this is a steel building, 2 inch fibre gat glass insulation on the
outside and we apply our steel skin to it. This insulation has a frame
support of 25 foot units and has a class C fire rating, 26 gauge steel,
primed on the inside and painted on the outside, and if I bend this back
and forth I can take this piece of metal and it gets hot, but the paint
will still stick to each edge. The inside will have aat studs bolted to
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the girds and apply sheet rock to the insides of the walls
and use the stringered gird type ceiling with panels, and
the building would be of spume masonry construction, aluminum
front door and will be of brick of Mr. Pirro's choice.
MR. TSAPIS: This is basically as shown ill the plans which are a part of
the record and which you prepared for us?
A. That is correct.
Appellant's Exhibits 1 and 2 marked
Q. What is the life of one of these buildings?
A. This depends on where the building is placed; next to the ocean there is
a tendency to rust. This is of all structural steel, is painted, with the
skin on the interior and exterior, with side panm:ts channels so it will
not twist. This is a well designed building. The life of a steel builds g
would be for tax purposes, 40 years plus. You like to set this up on a
40 year basis.
Q. Have you constructed any of these buildings in this area?
A. Yes, our last project was for Cayuga Press, the corner of Route 13 and
Hanshaw; next door to it on Hanshaw Road is the Eastman Advertising A§enc ,
3200 square feet; up right this side of the Gas and Electric, LaFayette
Radio was the first building in the area for this type of building and
I myself am building a four-unit apartment house for myself out of this
type of steel construction,
Q. There was some question as to overhang. Is there an overhang on the east
and west sides?
A. No, a commercial type eavestrough, galvanized steel, nothing is open, and
we have a nice trim around the building. This is not an Invader or Chale»
lenger model. This is our best type of building, first class, no price
cutting, We wanted to give it character and I suggested a 3 foot overhang
on the front side and the side of the building back of the sidewalk, and
it would help in case of rain. I recommend that this building be set bac
with the brick structure on each side of the front door, so one can grow
grass or flowers in the front and people would have to walk around this.
He can have flowers or grass in front. The overhang is a help to enhance
the beauty of the building,
FREDERICK GOODWIN: 108 North Plain Street. Where would the building be located?
A. One foot from the north edge from the property line.
Q. Where would the water go?
A. The water won't run sideways because there are ribs in this construction.
This skin comes in 3 foot widths up to 40 feet long and the ribs will
guide the water to the edge so no water will be coming off the back of
the building.
MR. TSAPIS: Call Mr. Gersh.
DAVID GERSH, having first been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. TSAPIS:
Q. Did I ask you to look at this area?
A. Yes, you did.
Q. With reference as to parking?
A. Right.
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Q. Is there street parking on both sides of Plain Street?
A. There is.
Q. Metered or unmetered?
A. Well, on the northwest side of Plain, unmetered parking, on the southeest
side also, and on the southeast side of Plain there are no meters. The
only restrictions on the northeast side of Plain were two-hour parking.
Q. With reference to State Street is there metered parking along the front
of this building?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there a City parking lot within 500 feet distant from the proposed sitf ?
A. Yes, the municipal lot.
Q. How many meters did you count there today?
A. 44,
Q. How far from this site is it?
A. About 400 feet; I paced it off.
DR, BALDINI: To the corner of the municipal lot, the southeast corner?
A. Yes.
Are you aware the meters are to be taken out?
MR. TSABIS: No, but we are aware all meters taken would be replaced.
DR. BALDINI: I think this is west of the fire station, west of the lot
on the State Street side, not west of the fire station.
I also think we will not replace the 28 meters which are
being removed for the Central Fire Station.
MR, TSAPIS:
Q. The only other thing then is with reference to the buildings that exist
in the area - how many comply with the present Zoning Ordinance?
A. I do not think any of them.
Q. With reference to the 10 foot set-back and side yard?
A. Yes,
Q. Also did you measure west of the proposed site to determine how close is
the nearest building?
A. Yes, about 25 feet.
Q. This does not include the 3 foot side yard we would have?
A. Right.
Q. With reference to loading zone space, are there any spaces marked for
loading zones in that area?
A. Yes, about two meters. Down from the Ptrro property is a no parking
loading zone right on West State Street.
Q. Are they shown in the picture which is Exhibit 2?
A. Yes, they are.
DR. BALDINI: Is there a time limit on each?
A. Yes, up to noon.
MR. TSAPIS: The purpose of bringing that out was to show that there
are places for loading and unloading.
I think that is all. Any questions?
DR. BALDINI: You said that there are no properties in that area that
conform to the Zoning Ordinance about setback. Did you
measure the front walk?
A. I said in my judgmnet there are no properties in that vicinity which compl
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comply with all the requirements in the Zoning Ordinance.
MR. TSAPIS:
Q. Did you make some computations to determine that we attempted to comply
with every recommendation? Approximately how much building space we woul
have?
A. Yes, something like 700 square feet of building space.
BY MR. BUYOUCOS: This property is located diagonally from the Ithaca Theat e?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you take account of the availability of parking space
at night between 6:30 and 11:00?
A. No.
MR. TSAPIS: Basically, gentlemen, that is our case. I would like to
close by trying to refute each and every point raised by
the Planning Board as findings of fact. First, they said there is no off-
street parking. That is true. Neither does any other lot in the area, and
we could find none. Second, there is parking within 500 feet. There is a
City lot there that plans to expand it. Third, with reference to the last
sentence under their 111.11, the proximity of streets - that is true of every
building in the City. How could we qualify? With reference to loading spaces , 1
I indicated that there are two loading spaces available for use, and there is
no intention to ask the City to take out any unmetered parking and any taken
out would be greatly made up by the tax revenues paid by Mr. Pirro. We admit
that we do not comply with the zoning restrictions, but nothing could be con-
strutted on that lot that did. With reference to fire hazard, the building
would be all steel and would be fire resistent. With reference to point (4),
that no hardship is shown, we take exception; first, we are not required to
show hardship under the ordinance, and second, I feel that we have shown hard.,
ship. I know that you gentlemen will give us your consideration.
THE CHAIR: Any one here appeqring in favor of this appeal?
None.
Any one appearing in opposition to this appeal?
BRIAN NEVIN: 408 West State Street. I am a neighbor. I made a few
points as I listened. First, we as neighbors would be
happy to have a new business as long as it conforms to zoning. I do not know
the exact measurements but I still think that a business such as a doctor's
office could conform. I agree that a restaurant can not begin to. We are all
sorry that Urban Renewal is kicking business out but I do not think that shoul
hinder the rest of us already in existence. We are immediate private neighbor
and also have a business across the street. My main disagreement is that this
should be a hardship situation. That property is a 66 foot property, not a
33 foot property. When it was on the market, it was all on the market. We
tried to buy it. It was mentioned if it was to be sold separately and they
said, "No, it had to be purchased as a unit". It is a good investment for
the price paid. There is no regson why you can not put it in the brick builds g
which he bought it for, or as I would assume. But we would be delighted to
have the Hart Pharmacy there. There are larger properties on Green Street in
the block immediately behind. As to minor points, the property at 408 West
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State
16-State Street, the building is considerably less from the property line which
was mentioned and that property was bought in 1965. I admit it was not close
until January 27, 1966. It is not a matter of asking for one variance, but
for eight exceptions, and certainly that building - I think it looks like a
fireproof building for the country and do not think it is the type of building
Ithaca should have on a main street of this town. To the west there are five
private dwellings, to the north, two, and across the street, three. It cer-
tainly would change the character of that area. I know those properties are not
going to change for a long time. The property, since it has been purchased, tas
been maintained exactly once as far as the exterior goes. The current proper
which they are occupying is not exactly what we would like as a n6ighbor. An
there are two large trees on the property, but I think they could not properl
be left if that business was put up. They would be killed, and therefore the
property would be extremely open to adjacent buildings.
MR. BUYOUCOS: Have you observed the condition of parking there at night
between 6:30 and 11:00? Well, it is very tight there.
Also I notice that the hours of Pirro's is from four to two in the evening.
This type of busiiness generates noise and odors. I know that goes with the
business.
C. S. SO'UTHWICK, JR. Private owner of 408 and 409 West State Street.
I happen to be a person who sits up quite late. There
is practically no parking in that lot of West State Street from 6:00 A.M. to
2:00 P.M. Mr. Tsapis said that it would not change the character of the neig -
borhood. The property in question is surrounded by three private residences
and the Hart Pharmacy. Again, since they purchased the property, the lawn has
been mowed once. It got knee high and was mowed, and now it has gotten so high
it has fallen over. At 409 West Street Street we had both off-street parking,
and you mentioned that no place down there was offered for this.
MRS. ROBERT DEELEY; 214 North Plain Street, a co-owner of property at 412
West State Street along with my mother and I am here
also representing her. We are opposed to this building coming in there. I
was born there and raised there and I know that when the property was sold to
Mr. Putney that he bought it just for the flowers and trees and I am hoping
that it will stay that way.
MR. BUYOUCOS: I am here to speak for Doctor Galvin. Doctor Galvin
lives at 401 West State Street, the southwest corner
of Plain and State. He lives there and has his office there, has hours in the
evening between 7:00 and 10:30 and 11:00 and has a full office every night.
He is not as immediately concerned as the neighbors on the north except that
perhaps some deteriorating influence would affect him and he relies on the
Zoning Ordinance, but he is concerned about the parking. The Ithaca Theatre
is there and it is just in the evening that these customers start occupying
` these parking spaces and many of his patients are infirm, so he would like as
many parking spaces available as possible. Obviously the nature of this busi-
ness is not going to be where people park and stroll around and go back later.
A great bulk of this business if carry out and these pzttaRta people going
there want to park as closely as possible to this business, so all of a sudden
they fill the available parking area, at a time when he does not have as much
parking space as can be used. This influx of customers, possibly 70 people,
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. 1
could be in the restaurant at one time, and the Zoning Ordinance requires one
prking space to each five seats. So his concern is primarily the traffic late
at night. There are places for off-street parking in that area. At the cor-
ner of Corn and West State Streets there is a vacant lot where you can have
off-street parking. Doctor Galvin realizes that this use is permitted but what
he is asking you here is to take into account the various restrictive condi-
tions in the Zoning Ordinance, the waiver of which will adversely affect him.
Mr. Pirro does own 66 feet and can use this land and these problems would not
be necessary. I think Urban Renewal is rather irrelevant but maybe it is
relevant as it causes me to learn that it is kicking some of my clients out.
But we are not here because we are fearful of change. We do think we have a
good idea of what the traffic conditions would be. Our objection is not frivoo
lous; we have considered it very seriously before we came here. Doctor Galvin
has been in this location since 1940, Mr. Pirro may claim hardship, but again,
he has 66 feet. Just think what an exception to the reasonable requirements
of the Zon!'ptg Ordinance would do to Doctor Galvin's patients, who hope that
they will be able to find a place to park where they can get to his office,
and that is the gist of his objections.
MISS LYDIA HARVEY: 108 South Plain Street. I would say that the parking is
already terrible right now; they start at seven in the
morning and the block is filled on both sides of the street and it stays until
two, three, or four o'clock in the morning. My sleeping room is right on the
front and there is many a time I haven't gotten to sleep from two to after
four in the morning because of the noise. Not only that, but the litter is
just terrible, beer cans, whiskey and pop bottles, and last Sunday morning I
came out and there was a bottle broken on the sidewalk. I did not clean it up
until after church. With the VFW and the Ithaca Theatre it is just terrible.
My family comes to see me and they drive for three or four blocks before they
can park. If we get a restaurant down there and they stay around until one
in the morning, I think we had all better move out.
MR. SOUTHWICK: His offer was mdde in September of 1965, several months
before he received an eviction by Urban Renewal,
MR. GOODWIN: My children's bedrooms would be right alongside that res-
taurant and I am afraid the place would be noisy, though
I have no objection to a bar room.