HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1965-07-14 I
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In the Matter of the Appeal from the
Decision of the Building Commissioner
of the City of Ithaca upon the APPEAL FROM A VIOLATION
Application of ITHACA LODGE #719 OF SECTION 79 COLUMN 29
I.O.O.F., and LEMM BUSH and MARTIN OF THE ITHACA ZONING
BUSH, being Cases #626 and #627, ORDINANCE
wherein the Building Commissioner denied
the Application of the above named Ap- HEARING: JULY 14, 1965
plicants and asked that the same be
(� presented to the Board of Zoning Appeals
of the City of Ithaca
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HARDSHIP CLAIMED ON THE PART OF LENKE BUSH and MARTIN BUSH
;. in that they are senior citizens, retired, and have expended large sums of
Mj money in improvements of their residence at 450 North Aurora Street, Ithaca,
New York, and because of age and inability to care for the same, they are no
j' longer able to keep such pvemises and they have been able to find no private
family which is able to afford to purchase the same or to lease it, and they
have an opportunity to sell to ITHACA LODGE #719 I.O.O.F., which is able and
willing to purchase said premises at the priice fixed by the present owners.
HARDSHIP CLAIMED ON THE PART OF ITHACA LODGE #71, I.O.O.F.
in that they have been induced to sell their real estate at 310 North Cayuga
Street, with the assurance that there would be no difficulty on their part
in behalf of the zoning rules and regulations of the City of Ithaca.
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PRESENT:
JOSEPH CONLEY, Chairman
JOSEPH LUCARELLI
i JEOFFREY WEAVER
WALTER MAXI
i JOHN GEHERIN
OLIVER JONES
ALBERT A. WARD, JR., Building Commissioner
RICHARD I. MULVEY, ESQ., for Norman D. Freeman, Esq.,
City Attorney
ARTHUR G. ADAMS, ESQ., for Ithaca Lodge #71, I.O.O.F.
WALTER J. WIGGINS, ESQ., for Lenke Bush and Martin Bush
MARTIN BUSH and LENKE BUSH, Applicants
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Chairman: Are you ready, gentlemen? Mr. Ward, will you read the
request?
Request read by Mr. Ward
Chairman: Mr. Bush, or Mr. Wiggins, would you like to speak?
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} Mr. Wiggins: I would like briefly to explain. This property was pur-
chased in 1950, and I have brought along some tax returns which may answer i
some of the economic questions you might ask. The tax base, not including
the land, is around $37,000, and plus the value of the land, somewhere around
$409000. The character of this type of building, which was completely in
accord with its time, has substantially cgdd over the years, so we have a
situation where the owners are in their declining years, and they are unable
to sell the property as a residence because it does not fill today's needs
for such. It is not so constructed as to lend itself for multiple family use
If rented now there would be a total rental of about $3600 a year, and using
five times the gross rental as indicating a value of the purchase for invest-
ment, you would have a price of between $18,000 and $20,000. We are faced
! with the ownership of a property which can only be used by sometking like thi
lodge. If there were a request for an unrestricted variance for any lodge,
I think you would be justified in denying the request. But this particular
lodge, - there would be no hesitancy on our part to oppose, if approval were f
given for the use of intoxicating beverages or the use of the facilities for
many of the purposes for which a different kind of lodge might wish to use it.
With this particular lodge, this would not be true. As to parking, the best
thing I can suggest to you is that in the course of the last sixty years at
310 North Cayuga Street, although that property had ample parking, the Odd
Fellows actually rented out thirty spaces, and reserved only five or six to
themselves, one reason being that this particular lodge has a greater appeal
to elderly people, people who often do not drive, and people who live within
the City. To service these people is a difficult task; to be faced with the
hardship which the Bushes are faced with is equally hard. So, gentlemen,
having arranged this marriage, we are asking for a minister to perform the
ceremony.
a This property has been carefully kept, and would continue
to be, I am sure, if taken by the Lodge, and if not, might put this property
to some use not compatible with the area. Consider that the Wagner Funeral
Home is near; there was the Conklin Sanitarium in the immediate vicinity, and
which was later changed to Ithaca College. This was in the close area, and
was used as a multiple use. In this zone other facilities could be permitted,
all of which should make us cognizant of the fact that this is a twilight zone
between the original and the other. I feel that the character of the neigh-
borhood lends itself to granting this variance. Of the income tax base on
the property, only one-half reportable, is $18,000. This does not include
the land. The rental value of this property last year was $1600, with expenses
t against it of $1400. So it is not an income-producing property.
Mr. Maki: What is the assessment?
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Mr. Wiggins: I can tell you the taxes.
Mr. Bush: The assessment is $16,500.
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1 Mr. Chairman: Any other question for Mr. Wiggins at this time?
Mr. Adams: Mr. Chairman, I would like to be heard in behalf of the
Odd Fellows from another standpoint entirely. I doubt if
you have ever had a situation in the years we have had zoning, similar to thi
I I would like to take it up quite carefully, because this matter means life or
death to the Independent Order of Odd Fellows here in the City of Ithaca. Th
ij Odd Fellows have sold their property to the County of Tompkins, at half of
i' what it is actually worth. I myself was in the insurance business for fifty
I years; I called upon an appraiser to look the property over and he appraised
our Temple at $225,000. Of course the Temple is now old, and I wanted to know
what it was worth now for insurance purposes, and he said "easily $150,000".
And yet we have sold it to the County of Tompkins for just one-half of that,
$75,000. So in this way I say this is a novel situation. And since we have
tried to find something we could afford. We went from one place to another.
One was listed at $15,000. One woman said, "'Who wants it?" Answer: "The
Odd Fellows. What do you want for it?" Answer: $40,000". "We understood s
$15,000." Answer: "No. That was years ago; now we want $40,000." This
situation was true everywhere; others heard about it through the neighbors.
I want now to callyour attention to two different things t1at
! have occurred here. First, what has the City of Ithaca done for the Odd
Fellows, and second, what has Odd Fellowship done for the City of Ithaca?
You might say that this is out of place here, because this situation does not,
mean how good or poor the Odd Fellows are, but I say this is something that
has never happened before and may never happen again. In connection with
fraternity, Theodore Roosevelt had these words to say: "In the final analysi
we shall find the stability of our government depends not upon our armies and
our navies, but upon the brotherhood of humanity. This government will endure
just so long as it protects the interests protected by Fraternity."
In thisksspect I am going to tell you something of what the
Odd Fellows are doing fraternally, because I feel you do not know of these
things. You iffift we are all interested in and have the Cancer Research. You
may not know that the Odd Fellows have a cancer research of their own, and
spend thousands of dollars every year for this. We have the Eye Bank, which
is national, but there again the Odd Fellows have an Eye Bank of their own,
just second to the national Eye Bank. We have Homes for the aged. Many of
you belong to fraternal orders. Most of these orders have few of these Homes
for their aged. I know there is only one for the Masonic Fraternity in the
State of New York. But the Odd Fellows have four in the State of New York,
and sixty throughout the United States. I believe that the Moose has only
one in the entire Untted States.
We have blood banks. We all contribute blood, if young
enough, two or three times a year, but do you know that the Odd Fellows have
a blood bank of their own? These are some of the things that the Odd Fellows
are doing for humanity. We sponsor heart specialist work. Every year we
donate $5,000 to educate two doctors, who have become internes in their pro-
fession, in the mAtter of the heart, and our efforts work after their intern-
ship. That is without regard to politics or religion. Two years ago they
gave one fellowship to a lady doctor in Ireland, and the other one was given
;i a scholarship for work in Manilla, Phillippine Islands.
We also work with polio. The Odd Fellows have a xzpvcx=
i, specialty for that, in establishing funds for research, and also for muscular
dystrophy, to both of which the Odd Fellows contribute substantially.
At the Ithaca Savings Bank one can borrow for education,
and they have to pay it back some time. The Odd Fellows also help with this
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type of benefit. They have plenty available to put out and they charge only
4% on these scholarship loans.
One of the finest things they do is the matter of the Yout
Pilgrimage to the United Nations. For the past sixteen years the Odd Fellows ,
have sent a thousand or more boys and girls to United Nations free of charge. !
Each lodge has paid toward the expenses, and this pays for their room, meals
in New York, but after their training of one week in New York, they are on
their way home as guests of the Odd Fellows. On a week from Saturday the bus
load of Kansas teenagers are going through Ithaca as they have for sixteen
years now. I myself am meeting them in Candor, and I am not bringing them F
down South Hill. They are Seniors or Juniors, picked from all over the Unite
!I States, practically one thousand of them, and many come from Europe. These
I� young folks are picked because of their good character. They have spoken witli
Adlai Stevenson, with representatives of the Soviet Union, and they go back
!i home in an endeavor to do more for their government than they otherwise would
This is demonstrative of the policy of making America better for tomorrow's
Americans. The boy or girl who will be numbered 10,000 in New York, gets a
free trip to Chicago.
This variance we have asked for - we have been living for
60 years at 310 North Cayuga Street. There has been no complaint concerning
us there whatsoever. We were there under the original section. We have sold
" this property for 50% of what it is worth, in order to be a good fellow, not
with the thought that we would get something back for it. We had no idea we
would have any trouble in moving anywhere we wished. And we had no thought
that we were giving away $75,000. Most of us here were teenagers at that time
but 45 years ago something happened here in Ithaca. A committee of the Grand
Lodge of Odd Fellows of the State of New York was sent from various places of the
State, seven in number, and they wrote to the Chamber of Commerce of Ithaca
and said they were trying to find a site for an Odd Fellows Home. There is
now one at Albany, one at Lockport, one in New York City, and one on Long
Island, but they are all corporate private homes. They said they wanted
axmada another for all Odd Fellows to go to. So this committee said they
would like to meet a committee of Ithaca members of the Chamber of Commerce
in order that they could help them to find a site. They made various other
planned trips, to Utica, Auburn, Syracuse, and then to Ithaca, and this was
back in the days of the old railroad, the Short Line, which few of you remem-
ber. We met them at Rogue's Harbor. We showed them a place there but they
wanted to see what else we had. We took them to South Hill and to Cayuga
Heights; they looked but they wanted to see something else. Then Peter
Campbell said he knew of a place on the Trumansburg Road, beautiful, with a
farm of about 120 acres. We went there and Lou Smith, whom some of you know
f about, pointed out the surroundings. The Committee liked the site, but they
said, "What will Ithaca be willing to do?", and Lou Smith said, "If you will
bring the Odd Fellows Home to the City of Ithaca the City of Ithaca will give
you free and clear any deed to any place you select for the Odd Fellows Home. '
They went away; they went to Binghamton, but two and a half days later we
got the word that Ithaca was selected for the site of the Grand Lodge Home.
That was the beginning of something successful in this community.
Then Lou Smith said that the City of Ithaca could not do
all this, but he went to Ithaca Realty, and contributions poured in, about
$3,000 ala being donated to the Odd Fellows, and then the other $22,000 had to
' be raised, and Lou Smith said, "Leave it to me". He wrote to every Odd Fell
' in Rompkins County and requested every member to attend a meeting, and we
fixed a meeting, and that meeting was held in 1920, and at that time we fills
the Odd Fellows Temple full of Odd Fellows, and the idea that Lou Smith had
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was to station certain Odd Fellows at certain places in the building, and then
throughout the meeting had them stand up and say what they themselves would
give. This was after explaining to the members assembled from all over the
County that the Odd Fellows of the State intended to spend a million dollars
in Tompkins County. The response was gratifying, one saying, "I will give so
much", etc. and they raised the bulk of the money needed of the $22,000.
Practieally everybody in the room gave something. We then borrowed the bal-
ance of the necessary funds and went to Ithaca Realty and paid the money, free
and clear, all raised by the Odd Fellows over a period of three years.
Mr. Jones: Have you had much difficulty in locating a place now?
Mr. Adams: We have had no success at all, the members have gone
to every place possible, places about ready to fall
down, places over-priced, for our needs, considered putting up a structure,
which could have been inadequate, but when we got to Mr. Bush, while the
price is considerable for us, that place is all ready to move into, new siding,
new roof, new heating plant. We had been led to believe that there would be
nothing to do if we would give a deed to the County of Tompkins, but when we
came to ask for a variance, discovered that we had to come before this Zoning
Board. And then I heard from the County Attorney that the Odd Fellows had
no right to ask for a variance; that it had to come from the owner. So I had
to have Mr. Bush make the application.
We have now turned over to the City of Ithaca for goods,
merchandise, help, clothing, furniture, and so forth, $8,000,000 in the last
40 years, and besides that, we have sold a property we owned for 60 years,
one which has been in Ithaca since before Cornell University was established,
and we have been at 310 North Cayuga Street for 60 years.
I am asking you gentlemen, not for any gifts or money,
but just honest justice to this fraternity that has done so much and is doing
so much. The fraternity does not want to go out of business, but I fear that
Odd Fellowship in Ithaca is out of business after 123 years in Ithaca unless
we can get this variance. This would be the great hardship to us after we
have done the best we could for the City of Ithaca.
Gentlemen, I thank you for the time I have taken. Yes-
terday, 24 hours ago, I turned over the deed of 310 North Cayuga Street to
the County of Tompkins, so now we have no place to go.
Mr. Chairman: May we hear from any neighbors who are opposed to this?
Mrs. Mangeruga: 433 North Aurora Street. I appreciate the position of
the Bushes and the situation of the Odd Fellows, but
where are the members all going to park?
Mr. Adams: That is the problem all over the Sity. There is a
3-car garage and 4 cars could park in the driveway,
so that would take care of 7, and that is more than
we have at the present Temple.
�,,.. Mrs. Mangeruga: How about your bazaars and people coming in and out?
Mr. Adams: Certain things have to be done, but that is more the
function of the Grand Lodge Home than the Lodge. We
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could not have large gatherings on North Aurora Street.
We had to -have such affairs and efforts at the Temple
because we had to dig for money all the while to pay
our taxes of about $2400 a year on that property.
Mrs.4ngeruga: It is hard-to get a parking place there. Our friends
now can not park near. We are afraid that if you do
not have parking now, that you will be buying a house
on the other side. If that were so you would be right
across from me and my property would be facing next to
a parking lot.
Mr. Wiggins: As I understand this particular section, this neighbor-
hood parking area would be permitted without a variance
There would be nothing to prevent that, whether the Oe .
Fellows were there or not. I think one of the reasons
they want this place is because they are elderly and do
not, for the most part, have automobiles and need and
want a place where they can walk to their Temple. I do
not think this hes been a problem in their present
location.
Robert Dickens: 409 North Geneva Street. I am a member of the Odd
Fellows. This afternoon we had a military funeral in
that area and I took the opportunity to look over the
two blocks, and I had occasion to look between Tioga
and Linn Streets, and there were at least 10 open parkin
places there. The parking problem would be nothing at
all. We meet on Friday nights. I do not thunk there
are more than 10 who come in cars, and not usually that,
and if we can park 8 in the driveway and garage, that
would put only two on the street, And of course Wagner
is in that area. I would like to add that we do not
open the Temple on Sunday. There is no neighborhood
imbalance at all.
David Murray: 437 North Aurora Street. May I have the report read of
the Planning Board in this situation? We bought this
as our home and raised our family there; we bought this
for residential purposes. I can not say how vigorously
I am opposed to a variance. We want it for residential;
it is our home. I will feel this way ten years from
now. I feel this way now. I definitely do not wish a
variance granted.
Mr. Wiggins: First of all, there are three residential zones. If a
man wanted to buy a house, he would go into a particular
zone. I would ask this Board to consider the fact that
having 20 meeting once a week on Friday night, and as a
fact, less than that, is less onerous than a nursing
home, a tourist home, a rooming house or multiple
�-� dwelling, and so forth. In the beginning, when Mr. Adams
was speaking, I had some concern that his remarks might
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not be directed to the variance involved, but as he
went on I reAlized it was pertinent. I think if the
number is even approximately 20, with 8 parking places,'
that you should have less objection than to any of the
other things you might permit in that zone. We made
an effort; we sent out fifty notices.
Mr. Chairman: May we have a show of hands of those in opposition?
(8 hands raised)
Mrs. R. B. Dikeman: 433 and 433k North Aurora. If this is going to be a
lodge, what guarantee would one have that it was not
later sold to another organization? We like to feel
that we have a home in a residential area, and I know
there is a parking problem.
Mr. Adams: I think I could answer this lady with reference to that
We have been where we are for 60 years and would have
been for another 60 years if we hadn't given the place
to the County of Tompkins. Let me add that we have no
liquor nor gambling on our premises or in our lodge
rooms.
Mr. Wiggins: The Applicant would be very pleased to consider a con-
ditional variance, conditioned upon these things which
are objectionable.
Mr. Ward: A variance would be granted subject to the conditions
stipulated by the Board of Zoning Appeals and it would
be made non-transferrable.
Mrs. Mangeruga: I think the Lodge is wonderful but the point is that I
wish to be assured that you won't buy a residence and
be having a parking lot for people to look at.
Mr. Chairman: I might say that by the Zoning Ordinance no one could
be stopped from doing it.
Mr. Wiggins: I understand that Mr. Adams would be pleased to assure
you that that is not their intent. I do have a note
here. (Reads note, Van Ness, 445 North Tioga Street),
Mr. Chairman reads memorandum from Planning Board.
Ward Spencer: 435 North Aurora Street. I hate to keep harping on this
parking rpoblem, parking on one side of the street or
the other. I might say that Mr. Wagner has permission
for parking. The Lodge says they are composed of elderly
people. What about the future, not just today? They
will have young ones coming in. There are certain
things we can not stop. When we have this opportunity
to try to keep it a residential area, I think we should
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try to do so. We have a standard parking lot; they
have a lot of cars and overflow onto the street. Who
is the hardship concerned with - Mr. and Mrs. Bush or
the Odd Fellows? Don't we all have the problem that
the Bushes have?
Mr. Wiggins: I think the point is well taken. I would ask you gen..
tlemen to understand and recognize that the ckiaracter
of this structure is such that unless converted to a
rooming house or tourist home, it would be more offen.
sive.
Mrs. Christoferson: 444 North Aurora Street. What would it do to my property
to have the Odd Fellows Lodge right next to me. They
would face my property on the back. I am on the south
nide of Mr. Bush. Then I want to know if this goes
through, will it lower the price of my property. Maybe
I couldn't even rent my property, my apartment. I am
very opposed.
Mr. Dickens: I used to park in front of my own house but then I could
not do it usually, and I had to put up a carport. If
you people belonged to the lodge, you would know this
would be no hardship. I really hesitate to tell the
attendance at the meetings, 12 to 15, and in the summer
you are lucky to have a quorum.
Mrs. Christoferson: If they are all old people they will sell it to somebody
else later.
Mrs. Myers: 441 North Aurora Street. We purchased the first of Marc
and never owned before. We own three cars. We have an
apartment upstairs and these people have to park on the
street. I came home today at 3:30 and at the funeral
home they were parked on both sides of the street. The
Police tolerate the parking on our side. And the nur-
sery school is held at the Church. I am definitely in
opposition to this. We have no parking and we have to
keep our apartment rented in order to own our home.
Mr. Weaver: I live two blocks away. I have my own garage. I would
suggest that you consider this angle. You now have a
right to speak out. Let me point out A if because you
are opposed to it and the appeal is denied, the next
purchaser might not require a variance and you may not
have an opportunity to speak out, as the next could be
within the Zoning Law* if some one wants to purchase the
property for these other things, student fraternity or
sorority, multiple family swelling, apartments, rooming
house, tourist home, nursing home and dormitories.
Mr. Wiggins: It seems strange that this lodge would have to ask for
a variance when a student fraternity would not..
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Mr. Weaver: I personally feel that this might be the lesser of the
soy-called various evils.
Mrs. Gere: How often is this building used?
Mr. Adams: The Rebekahs meet once in two weeks, the Canton once a
month, the Encampment once a month, and the Subordinate
Lodge once a week, all evening meetings.
Mrs. Gere: Are there plans for rummage sales?
Mr. Adams: There are no plans for that.
Mrs. Gere: It does seem to me that this is the lesser of the evils
we might encounter, rather to have people once or twice
a week than to have a tourist home, with cars coming in
and out every day. I am not opposed to it.
Mr. Chairman: To be fair to both sides I have to point this out.
There is a restriction on parking, and for a rooming
house you have to have one place for every car.
Mr. Wiggins: The building would not be used during the day at all.
Mr. Adams: Not unless some one might drop in for a rest room.
Mr. Dickens: Once in awhile we have a game of penochle, if we can
find some one to play.
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EXECUTIVE SESSION
Mr, Ward: As an offshoot from the last decision, I started to
fill out the yellow sheet before and am waiting for the
total transcript. You all have copies of the decision
form. What we have to come up with is either granted
or denied, for reasons, and spell the reasons out, as
to what spells out a hardship, what spells out the un-
iqueness of the situation.
Mr. Chairman: What is your pleasure?
Mr. Jones: The principal things seem to be the parking situation
and the possibility of the Odd Fellows later selling it
to some one else.
Mr. Chairman: Is that a hardship, is it a hardship for the Bushes?
Mr. Jones: I do not see where the Bushes come in,
Mr, Chairman: Materially we are not bound to them to give them a
good deal.
Mr. Weaver: Isn't it legitimate if we can get them $18,000 more?
Mr. Mulvey: Can they show a proper return? If you want to know now
I do not think legally there are any facts to spell
hardship; first, they have never shown how long the
property was on the market; seconds what they paid for
the property; third, what efforts did they really make
to get rid of the property; fourth, with respect to the
Odd Fellows, I would take it these people bought the
property in 1950, and would want what the Zoning law
was at that time. I think they would have to show that
they just can't sell this property to anybody else.
Mr. Chairman: I would say the property has been listed in our office
for a year or two, for $40,000. I am sure anybody woul
like to sell for that. This house is not worth $40,000
Mr. Maki: First, I am concerned with the fact that maybe the Bushes
put more money into this property than they should have
but that is not a basis for hardship. No other propert
near is claiming that as a hardship. Right across the
street is the Button property and I can not see that what
would be applicable to this would not be applicable to
the Button property. I haven't in my mind anything as
a sound basis for granting a variance to the Bushes.
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Mr, Jones: As a matter of fact, wasn't this case postponed because
k.- the seller must show hardship?
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Mr. Ward: Yes. What Wally is trying to say is that the type of
structure of this property and its obsolesce is creating
the hardship. I know that in some cases you can get
hardship.
Mr. Jones: I think the Odd Fellows have created their own hardship
Mr. Mulvey: Mr. Freeman has ruled that the Odd Fellows did not have
the right to ask for a variance. I feel that they do.
Mr. Ward: To get back to my statement that with a structure ob-
solence is a cTIteria for demolition in any renewal
standard. It can cause you to lose a building under
urban renewal.
Mr. Jones: Is that in an urban renewal area?
Mr. Ward: No.
Mr. Jones: It was a popular decision on the part of every one, for
the Library to be there. Probably the Odd Fellows got
as much as they would have gotten.
Mr. Chairman: 310 North Cayuga Street is B-1, whereas 450 North Auror
Street is R-3.
Mr. Ward: The intent was to a hearing for both applicants to be
consolidated.
Mr. Chairman: There is a definite interest in both parties.
Mr. Ward: Technically you have two appeals here.
Mr. Mulvey: Mr. Adams did not set an appraisal figure.
Mr. Ward: I was asked to appraise but could not do it.
Mr. Mulvey: They were never compelled to sell that building. I am
sure it would have been dondemned. It would seem that
they were satisfied with $75,000. With respect to the
parking, it is true that they do rent spaces but maybe
only to their own members.
Mr. Jones: No, that is not so. Other people rent those spaces.
Mr. Wiggins said they did not need day parking but
needed night parking. I feel that there is room there
at night. We have made decisions here when there have
been no objections, whereas we heard the people who wer
against it. In many cases we have had to consider when
there were no petitions against or for it.
Mr. Ward: What do you want to work under, which request? The
request was made on the second page of the Bush appeal.
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Mr. Mulvey: Frankly, I do not know whether the Odd Fellows have
signed a purchase offer.
Mr. Jones: Yes, I understand they have.
Mr. Maki: Can we deny the Bush appeal and grant the Odd Fellows
appeal?
Mr. Chairman: Any ideas for an action, a motion?
Mr. Ward: (Reads letter from Norman D. Freeman, Esq.)
It was the statement of Mr. Adams that they have made
the purchase offer and the closing is contingent upon
the variance to both parties.
Mr. Mulvey: Mr. Freeman m ay not have understood there was a pur-
chase offer.
Mr. Lucarelli: There is no doubt in my mind; my sympathies are with
the Odd Fellows, but on the other hand, we had about
9 people here who were against it. I know it's a good
lodge; no lodge today has any membership any more.
I just might say that compared to my lodge, I guess I
should say that I think they are wonderful people. Yet
there are these 9 against it who bother me.
Mr. Jones: The parking situation seems to be the Number One objec-
tion. Is it possible to get more than 4 parking spaces
Mr. Weaver: No more than six.
Mr. Geherin: If they took the garage down I think they could get
10 or 12 ears in there.
Mr. Lucarelli : If we can make a recommendation that they take this
garage down then I am not against it, if we can find
a way for some parking.
Mr. Ward: That garage is probably 22 by 24 and maybe a 6 or 8 foo
stretch between the garage and the house. If they tear
that down they could get 12 cars in easily and back out
Mr. Chairman: There is a parking problem all over the City. So the
main thing is can we show hardship on either? They hav
shown they want to sell the property, had appraisers,
and so forth. I know what Mr. Adams is talking about;
I am not against the order but still I do not think the kzx
have proved they looked hard enough. Unfortunately the
have given the deed to the other people. They might
have to look around a little more.
Mr. Weaver: Where could you sell them a house?
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Mr. Geherin: Maybe there could be suggestions for property available.
Mr. Weaver: And how do you measure how hard they have worked to fin
another house?
Mr. Chairman: They are supposed to provide it to us, to prove it.
Mr. Weaver: They did to me.
Mr. Geherin: I too can see that.
Mr. Chairman: If they gave me certain places and addresses, I could
understand the effort. But there are no names or
addresses or dates.
Mr. Weaver: Well, the neighbors bother me.
Mr. Chairman: I feel that with 9 or 10 against it they are going to
be affected more than the few in the lodge.
Mr. Lucarelli: The neighbors do not like it. I think at this time if
we say yes that we do an injustice to the neighbors.
Mr. Maki: Aside from my sympathy for the Odd Fellows I still can
not see that the Bushes have presented anything solid.
Mr. Chairman: Is there anybody here for this?
Mr. Lucarelli: I would like to postpone for one reason, to find out the
facts, how much the Odd Fellows paid, what the Bushes
paid, the efforts they have made.
Mr. Chairman: I feel we should say yes or no and then let them appeal.
Mr. Mulvey: You could deny or else you could adjourn and request tha
they submit additional proof, if you deny with permission
to submit.
Mr. Chairman: We would have to have another public hearing.
Mr. Mulvey: We could postpone for our own satisfaction. I feel that
regardless of sentiment, in terms of opinions of neigh-
bors or personal feeling towards the lodge, I would like
to see this postponed to give each party an opportunity
to present something that in turn could be considered as
a bona fide hardship. At the moment we are considering
on emotion and I would lite to see facts brought out.
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Mr. Ward: At the moment the only thing I can see as a hardship
to the Odd Fellows is that if they do not move and get
settled they are out of business.
Mr. Maki: Gentlemen, I move that we adjourn the meeting to give
both parties an opportunity to present factual data
to this Board, which it can consider in arriving at a
determination as to whether a basis for a use variance
can be granted.
Mr. Jones: Second.
Mr. Chairman: All in favor?
Unanimous.
I, LILLIAN M. KEOWN, Notary Public, County of Tompkins
DO CERTIFY that I took the minutes of the foregoing hearing at City Hall,
Ithaca, New York, July 14, 1965, appeal heard before the Board of Zoning
Appeals; that I have transcribed the same, and that the foregoing is a true
copy of such transcript, to the best of my ability, and the whole thereof,
\ j