HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1965-12-13 I
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MR. CR%IRXW i Iwo is NO dt&gm of tho proporwt
au" UMN at for pISA4 !s ommtai► ion lith ur.► Mwo*
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rd.I!► be alms t ons only add 04 QM PUWANI Dowd rpm 4"Ato
s bit of tim with us* gelft ovw their va
stUAftod AM the plft ve ars of * a t e d
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suo aw M~ I "'I'vvatthilm
s I UVI" Uke to aim- ids lottwo and
Promidow4 Wowt HLU C ivio m@ mrd t Up*
mmft# and ado► a pat of ths rosawd bar"#h)
D=WW s I b lithe ** a lotOft chwuo 'K# Irsoft,A&
ft"W" M ftm JeIn$# W of ub"go I"" x vish
to a aid p #t 3n ovid w.
vo at 140 am& Johm "" tv NV* swo
• MR, DIOW r bt addition I have had a telephone min i'ot
Jame craves, our Met Whrd Super iaora whe said he
wa rd to sail or attention for presentation at this
seating to the fast that swab► of the residents adore "9�
corned with that loser oadt to alar Street offered bF the
dowolspssrnt as a ***end *gross; that it was In
poor oaasditiaan► and ssare should be sande to
keep tete road in passable oondition.
LMS B=s I an an adjasoint paropertr ower as Sam Street. This
read soars right out at or baese. It eerls&Wy *hm21A
be &UWwd asd gh+a'4d not be se winding at Us Stireet.
It is very tibet there, This read sherd be stridghtewd
and a evo roost pewided there. I also ob jeat that the
PUming Heard proposed that they talao two or three
parking pis &wW aro Slay Street. I &Us hoe ng
doubts•about the sohool Obildrsars TWO to nothift
boyand the p>arbe but a few* and the drainages oma►
right chaser the road instead e f late the ditabss and In
lay mother it An make the roads dwWorearso Also this
road is not yatwed and we have sgffo red aareh frost dut.
ROM 8. MATS I err president of the West RLL Civie Assoolatt,e n and
I wish to ask that the fire association +o1wok tw VIVINg
card also rosessure the slopes of the drlvwAW to the
apartaruts for ptrg parrpoeapes.
MR, TSAnS t The fire Impactors =at Impost# and %bA*y hsws been
Inspected ted oe„ owe by the C,t'W and *rule► by taw bits
derrrlutbers Brad our plans wear* Impoirted ahead of Usie
I —.
as to tbo *W of oaastswU a s the so" of seatstawtoUsn.
and all to oomply idth the toning OMIUMM. As to Ww
oonstaa Ute„ abat to tr heap to a ■attor of and
that is aaet a valld argammko TbWO is mo, questlea batt
Ott we Medd vol e"O say iaopootiara of two he"TAS.
As for CA SU"t the eatssmeo is sdcdmWl, and It ot1
be parod and the lAtob bas boom, shod* We brwo marred
a mound an up the bdLU old* so ono amn soo *an ppoeft Lug
and it has baron us& nearly loves an the plw4 and It vUl
bo dons that wW. The dast Al bo elixilawtod at`toar
oamst;r!astien. A tu&1 fir, this is not adding wW aoaa
smopt the 24 %bat vould all be lo"t" to tbo omth.
It Is Uicing the agars off Ma and Most dlaa"U a Aaad�
tbovo Mill bo a parking spaoo fair *v*V oompwts
Mei. UUM a Does th4 make some to Ton, Kr. ftyl*T
A. lost if it rases out teat wAy. FlIght maw it arae oar moots motor y m
ba" tar salt In tbo staroot.
KK. RAMNOR i Yos, ve ,ars v1daning it and osfoty argils W*
instal ledo Wo v iU abserro the +aars uW provis on. The
fU% Uwks t!JU tbW it easior sand safiair newt. All of �
owr drlvanag+s have boon, fft0 t"M MW# MA
a utIUMlr and vas prodded at r deable a+oaaroo, ,Mw fir*
truko. ?baa* awa go ar>aar Wray or tbs otbo r. WAISO
video a sbeltsared voodlaard "a&W vith a dambU "ar of
for asfety. This is +alprady somod tw &PWA-
ments
taxa ve aro aamplyiag.
on. Tana: That dfjV$WW rss a major somom of 1 ► pandas Hoo!
and wo o ntwwh.Saar,on, it aarad alh�+f t �aawo suuc sti
.b.
which Tom Holderkorn did require were incorporated
In this plan.
MR. RAIMIs Let roe say that the play area was not replaced by the
addition of parking spaces. The present plan she"
an addlo ml play area to "vm the additional sport-
amts on the slope in a mare woodland and level setts
And this is being added for only 34 emits.
PAUL KILM I mould like to place in the record my belief that the
A.D.D. may not be a legal exercise of the Citx's Zoolve
powers. I believe that the A.D.D. sets up a separate
apartrsat development district which in affect cbsup
the toning maps, seta up a new area and is carried out
by the Board of Zoning Appeals an refeommendation of tie
Plmaing Board. First, I believe that the apsatament
dewlepsent district is a separate soning action In
itself. Redd, as A.D.D. is written, the regulation
p"vidt for a aaximum of 10% grade. I feet the grade
maximmm is exceeded on both "Its to Chestnut and Elsa
Streets. Third, i believe there will stili be a dam-
Serous exit on Ila Street elven if completed as writtak.
Thecae *11.1 still be a steep grade with only room for
couple of ears on a level grade. I would ilk* to point
out that the Planning Board in its early discussion
described this as a slum on west Bill. This is not' mv
opinion; I have heard it expressed. I would like to my
that it looks mese like a low rent housing project.
would like to ask the question about whether the ea
trran as and a:#to are twomiay an berth Chestnut and Ila
or one-way.
-7-
MR. T 'ISs As to the part where be describes the ares, I ask that
it be stricken.
MR. RABINt3As The entrances on Chestnut and 'nu Streets are twoway. In
acctordanao with the A.D.D. soningw they bawe been wade morly
level, a widsasd area at Chestnut which is level and oars at
Us Street which is nearly level. Ws are widening it,
and cutting down the bank sad making it visible from boot
cliraations. we are trying to comply not: only with the
letter of the law but the spirit of ssoming. Mrs. Pat
Nordbotmer wade several suSgoattions wkieh we IncorpoistAd
into the plan and we followed Mr. Beiderkorn�s su"ostious.
Vis fell that the spserty mts ase well built and an asset t
Ithaca. That they are tar from a slum. its fool that t
apartment* are elegant and we have had essay compliments
their elegance, appearance and charm and landscaping and
overall lay-out. Many people have come up to see it.
lRR.AMU s I think on the grade that most people asw teferring to t
entaassce from Chostawt Street. All we cam do is provide
a level area: prior to the eatmes. Beyond that these to
nothing that we can do. It is a hilly street. In am
chane with Zoning 4rdinanc» and tb* A»D.D. there it ler
than a lQX grade where it joins Ile and Chestnut Street .
That is what the iaw requires. 4n the driveway entrow e
that is the law.
MR. RADDIDILt The widened areas at Chestnut and Us have to be nearly
level. The driveway way be close to 10% at pointe, but we
brake it up to help for safety poses.
MR, CRAIRMRRs This is not for us to be talking about anyway because t1kat
place is already tbare. We have notbing to do with that . ,
We are talking about the new addition.
Mt. RKMI I as speakioo for Mrs. Hama iton who could not be here.
She obooksd an the assessment and found the true valuation
o
decreased,by 10% due to the location of the apartments.
Suppose she wants to seii this plass.
MR. T ISt Mrs. Hamilton my have toad bar aeeessmaut decreased but
the basis on which she tbinbe it was decreased is dif
West than: what the people used in the tax office. It
dependa upon the original assessment.
MR. CRAIRNOi I might mention to you, Mfr. Kilby, that the Planning
Board bas as authority to put in the Zoning Ordinance
and the people did It.
MR. TSAPIS: The A.O.A. guns co%Uia guide lines by which to comply,
M. BIt.AY: This obanges the ?Boning map.
MR. TUPISs I can not eater Into a discussion of the validity of
the Ordinance.
MS. KIUWI (Road$ the Ordinances "That driveways shell have a 1
gradeM
MR. TWISs That Is no part of this situation anyway.
MRS. JAMES SCEs You claim you are going to do these things. Are you finish
Chestnut Street
except for paving? Is it now what it is going to be?
MR. BAS t: The driveway as It approached Chestnut Street is the wa
it is going to bre and the driveway on Bim the way as s
on the plan. That driveway will be aider and more le 1.
MRS. LAN" CBt On the hill part?
MR. RADMI: Yes, and the bank will be out dawn so the visibility will
be .
MRS. LWRXWNi Raw such wider do you intend to maks it?
MR. RABDOORt As sbown on the plan it will be 1:7 foot miaimm and as
it appraoohes 210 Strftt 'it bocomrs wider.
tdi$. LWOMCgt I would tike to tater *xetption than. Might atom noire is
a bad curve and the widened agree now is the width of only
ona agar. I bawl been up it in s station w"os and I do
not know what you would do with scow on It. Also nary om
who has driven up and dawn isdu m that the sander keeps i
clear but it snows in Ithaes often and it is like *tats
and is exactly three cars wide. Man the sam is as, the
hill mad you skid a little you be" nowhere to go. wbrrnun,
people pull out on a curb you way not be abbe to steps.
Thor* is also a dangerous o romsisg there for that school
and it you were cowing down is winter mad aomw one *am
out and you skidded you would not have aayabere to go.
The street to not wide enough to come down on Ila and
you expect two-way traffic in srid auto still any eme who
pulls from glee into that driveway is gaud to be" to as
a complete V turn within a 20 foot width. There to not
roam to turn your carr around. I as not against telae apm-
mems but 1 feel that the safety of the okildren should to
co nsiderwtd. And further* if you can not tura on your
stove and your toaster and your lights without the light
dunning, thore is something wrong. This is year old eon.
struction. We had a wind storm and the front door blew
off from am* one** hems. By that token you SISnt f ietd
your twaddler out thorough a wiadowr that haps blown off. I
•1Q-
OWM JoYsSI Vas the drainage been planned on the new place? Will
the water from these reads ruA into the street?
MR. RAAUWRa go, they will go ,to the ditabeq. In regard to the door
Moving off, the,senant -left the door oM and tbore,wast
a f ifty mi ie wind, but we bov a cormted that now. And
the plan shows an adeequats area for making a turn and
entering a nearly level area nearly two ears is width*
I think it will be a credit to the arse and that it will
not be unsafe. it is not our fault if a street in 10*0
is unsafe. We bave dons our best to csorreest bids.
MR WRAMt When it is completed you will be able to turn gaff tboro
oven if another car las parked these?
NR. TSS 15; Us, we spent a good bit of tiers going over this drriweirae
and eorrsctions are to be *sods for clean visibility to
the east and the went. of all the points that is the ko
question. The planner* think it can. Nth tbeir rroossio
eendations the" is no, problem. No intorseecetien Is sass
of course, but the corrections will make it safer.
NR. WXAVUI lsu t your driveway well down on the straightaway?
MR. TSAFIS t Yos.
M. XABZNORI The last 25 or 30 foot will, be straight into Rle Sitrrss t,
NR. LA4fMM: At the ior*r part where Ble Street woken that cuM
opposite the school is where I meats.
OUM SONESs 1 think that we should stick by the things tfiaret the
Zoning Board is rewspanaiblo for. The soly thisepo bm
to contend with in this meeting tonight is If It eeetst
with all the A.D.A. rocecomendstions, this O&W of tees
toll-
line. As far as I can sees all this neer past is up to
some *that department. I think what we should do to to
decide on whether or net we should allow -perking herr
to the 14 toot Property line. Will that depreciate, the
Property adjacent if we allow this.
MR. XABIMR We still have about four teen of ploaaf`tta#. We on not
sight up to the line. Then is :a fairly desp ravine in
that section anyway.
MR. JOBS: That to all we We to dna i der an tli stet.
Mt. RA81MRs 24 foot of spMa is provided and +stare for sash, aateno-
bile. The terrain is such that it will not depnrsel at#
It. We comply in all respect& *%ceept this one excep-
tion of 10 lest.
MR. MACKIs The Planning Bea" says all objeactious kove to be act.
They are g1vtog us a clear mandate.
MR. TSAPISa In the plan as submitted to you they have made, additional
suggestions and that no errti is sts of ocampane y be Sivia
until all those things an est.
MR. I MNt i would dike to say Haat the Planning Board's r000mmen«
dation was that these was a possibility of no parking tit
front of Mr. Boyle and Mss. house to allow for exit to
Chestnut Suet. Mould net this suit have. to have sonef
lietent cleasanco as a safety factor?
MR. CRAlttliAMa I believe we have heard this Olen susfi'idientlys gentl
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In the !latter of Appeal #661, dated
November 20, 1465, Stephen Zifohock
Location of Property: 128 fares St.,
Ithaca, N. Y. Requestt Zwoption;
Permit for Occupancy
MR. CRAIRWMs The next case is No. 661. I believe Mr. Ztfchock is havite
JAMBS ZIFCVDCKs We have a two-story garage behind the house and we would
129 Farm Street
like to make a second stir for an aparteent.
DMR. CRAIRM#Ns Do you have any plans drawn, up?
MR. ZIFCRDCKs No, only a rough sketch, if you want to sere it, of the lot.
(Shoos sketch)
MR. CRAIPJW: nid you see this Planning Board recowatendatiou?
(Rands recommendation to Mr. Zifebook)
MR. ZIFCHDCKs I gust want to re-finish the upsts*ft of the garage and
wake an apartment, no snore area, designed for me f=117.
with either one or two bedroom# not more than two. 'I
have roods for six parking places offstreet.
MR. JONS3s Is that foundation strong enough to take on a secaad
story?
MR. ZIFCH�CKs It is going to creed a little rs-working. The structure
Is there. I as gust going to partition the upsta , of ,,
put plue3sing fn, and Insulate it.
MR. CHAIR MAN I think that is all we need.
13--- -13-
----------------------X
--------------------X
In the Matter of Appeal +l663, dated
December 1, 19651 Purity Los, Cream
Co., Inc., 700 Cascadilla Street,
Requesting a variance to Zoning,
Ordinance
------------------------•--------•X
MR. CHAIRMAN: We have the sketch here and you can tell us about it.
LED GU NTBRT: I got ready since the last heaving with a dopy of the
Zoning, Ordinance, and when we built who" we are we wars
classified as industrial and you pat us in B-1.
MR. CHAIRMAN: When they changed the Zoning Ordinance, tboy changed the .
area.
MR. GUNTIRTs But there is a difference in what you can do in B-1 and -1..
M. CHAIRMAN: They changed June 15, 1961.
MR. www But you can't take some one who is established and aha
tbb Zoning.
MR. CHAIRMANi This is all we have to go by. This Common Council abseved
this Ordinance in the City of Ithaca.
MR. WRAVZRt The Planning Hoard's memorandum: Sign limitations for
the 1-19 not for B-10 so it would appear that the Planning
Board is giving you the benefit of that.
MR. QMNTERT: That gives only 250 square fleet.
MR. WUVRR: We are still bound by the present Code.
MR. MoLAtTGHL%Nt On page 2 it says 270 square foot. It sear m rsaliatii ,.
It is actually 170 square feet. One sign is 3 by 10 an
the other 9 by 13.
Mit. CHAIRMANt This is a revolving sign?
MR. MolAtJMINa Right. What about Towao right down the street?
-14
—
MR. CBAIRM N: I called Mr. From and be dida•t knew. We have to
decide how big a sign we are going to give you. Aotuvall
It is in a B•1 sone, which is a maxima of 25 square fee
of sign.
MR. aiMWXRTt Who has the right after we built In an industrial sone?
Now you people say we are is a 5•1. I think if we went
to court you people would have to put us in I.1.
MR. CBAIItW: This miry be but we have no control over it. This to wba
Canon Council did in MI. Instead of revising it they
wrote a new one and they made those changes in the teat
Oldinance itself. Sven if we said 1-1, we couldn't give
it to you.
M8. JONES: It is a matter for the Building Code Board of Appeals.
Before that he has first to have a right to sweet the
sign, to keep the thing in order. We bad bettor get
on the also first. In other words, the Building Code
ti can not allow him to erect a larger sing than Is per.
witted. He has first to determine the silo of the aims
and than go to the Building Cede.
OR CBABBi t This is what was said last time*
MR. MACKIt We haw to decide bow big a sign to to be permitted and
If he attacbea it to the building there is another question.
M. JUNIst Now they are asking for 170 feet. Does your plate show
the sign being braced from the base?
MR. MaLAWRLIlet Our contention is that the sign will be no diffor"t oa
a pole than on the roof. The aesthet-ic value would be
of greater value on the roof. There is no place on our
ay
land for it.
MR. CHAIRMNs We art talking about 29 oqurrre Utt to 170 64%0" f**t
. WAVER: In B-1 we have no latitutds in the matter.
MR. 'COMM: I still saiotain that you �.no right to abang+e this
Sontag. We built on the stela of their telling us t
was on industrial area.
MR. WAVER: But we b*V*n't the aestb0ri.ty to do anything *bout it.
MR. C IIs s They are in B-1 sone and they made a variance to us to
change that square footage reguiream"t.
Not. WAVER: Co ld we get on opinion from Noraton rreeman?
MR. CHAIRW: We still have to think about the sine of the sign.
MR. DINOWt I do not believe you can legally grant it unless ties* is
swain way you van interpret Zoning. Apparently this group
is the final appeal. If your neighborhood is correct it,
Is in 3-1 and you van not grant it. If you could inter
pant this as being I-1, you would have e no problem. And
the other question is about moving a line. This is a rrer
risky business. Since the Planning Board says it is is
B-1 and gauss of that thw * is no appeal, Isis boot hot
would be to gat it in I.J.
Ia. 14ACKI s Only lze certain subdivisions of the Code do you heave any
leeway.
MR. CRAIMMA hs Right now they or* ,to B-1 arena and can put up a *M.iWo I
s of 23 square feet as long as there is no moron or fts:ft ah
affect used. Now they went a bigger sign.
MR. DDlQW; Let me draw your attention to Switon 13, 8-1, page 31
MR. KPlCitls I feel this is the only thing ws can use and bush over
Into that maser thing.
F,. -16-
MR. CU1IBMAMs Lot's table the whole thing and go to the Pl ening Board
and have there toll us what son* it is in.
MR. DIM MNI You have board what the Planning Board said. It is An.
d!lef ini tie.
MR. CMAIRM t It says here that the Purity toe Crena is located in 3•1
MR. GIMIM i Maybe they elan be convinced,
Mit. CRAILW t But that is what we have to go by.
a. iii Who can to to the Planning Dearrd7
Mit. DINIGU MI I do not knew his bests nor'vbAt ba"t the Planning Brea
has for determining what :one he is in. 1 40 net tiMf
It is up to Mr. Guentert to so to theca. It ought be ;
worth your whi Is to address s request to Novom freeman:
for an opinion as to whether there is any lop, way you
elan grant a 270 foot sign and deterMne what sons that
would be in.
MR. G1llMIK i I do not think any am has the right to sone us out of ,
i�nstrrial.
MR. CxAtxW i Why **not we do i t 7
Mil,. VACJM and
W VMVIRi Because Seer:tion 8 limits us. We do not want to get into
deep water.
MR. MACKII get Mr. r for an opinion to straighten out what
score it is in.
MR. MMIN t We car always spot gene it.
MR, CRAlRWXI I think it best for you, liar. Quentert, to find out for
suite what we are doing.: If we f Ind it to I-1 we have
no problow.
.17.
Minutes of Ruscutiw Meeting of Board of Zoning Appeals • December 139 1965
MR. CRAIR>!# NI Let's go first on 658,0 Lewis Street
MR. G&MINI Move the exaeptioa be 'gummed.
MR. .ACkKI$I Second. I have looked that place over And there is so
hardship Involved there with adjacent property owners.
Mfr. CHAMW: Anybody to speak for or against?
MR. CR41XM N: No. 661.
MR. WAVER: Can we answer these questions that the Flsnnisg Semi
sake? He brought a City plan.
MR. GEMINI There is no obaags In the sires of any structure.
MR. JONES: No will have to build that over and the Building Cear-
missioner will have to sea that he ossieplies with the law
It will take more than resnforeing.
MR. WAVER: Maw* that since the said skstoh was suWIttod that the
request be granted subject to its liaitations: The +tea
addition to be occupied as one apewtsa mt with no ■arse'
than two bedroom and that be will maintain six parkiv4
spaces for the entire property.
. , ONM Second.
mug$ mmurmMU
MR. CHAIR*Aff: No. 659.
MR. JONES: Letts mind our own business and just decide on this 10
toot right of way. That"is the only this $ we have to
"side on. The :rent of the property masts the SmAug
lseee and it is up to the City to see about these other
things,, drainage and traffic,
NIL, W"VXRI I think ve have.to give appal.
MR. CRAI WS This parking closer than 10 fest from the lot line. M.
Sees back to the existing property.
MR. bio ne They Marra asked for approval for the whole new site,
MR. CKAtRMN I They ait talking .about tha liths adjacent to the loser"
proportyi
MR* JO1NBst I do not think we should get involved as long as itpa
the Zontstlaws• to see if it is buiIt psop'etly andtt
is up to the inspectors.
hR, CHAMWs They can go ahead and build these whole new crrwplamats.
M , QMRIhta Subject to. the Planning Board reco dations.
MB. MACKI: He did not have to ask the Zoning Board. Now Mia is goi'
beyond and we Mare to-answer. This it to consider
everything.
MR. (MR=IN: I don't Object to the 10 fest.
Mkt. DINGMRMt I vould say it is possible far these people to design
an adequate exit and entraarsealthout regard to the adjol mS
pv rty•
MR. JDMXSt I wouldlike to say this, that we would allow the veri.
encs, of the 10 feet frost the lot line, but as to the
okaying the A.D.D. permit# that is up to soave one else,
Mit. CRA MM: Not it is up to us; it has to be us.
MR. MACKIs We have to say yet or no.
MK. JOMKS: There is so such concern by the neighbors.
MR. MACK11 'There is a lot of bitterness up there. The children
problem doses into it. This is a recurring thing. t qa
•19-
asked to present this to the Board. It hasn't been
just one individual.
MR. WhAYM: no you feel the principal objection is this driveway
on Biu Street?
MS. MACKI: They have to walk by it.
MR. JAMBS: Is it possible to ask them to submit their plans
about the drainage into the street? That would make
another problem.
bell, Isake the motion that we grunt "parking closer
than 10 feet from the lot line" only, that 14 foot
excseption, and see what happens?
hto iesAionae.
MR. JONES s Than I make a notion that we table it to find out just
haw far we have to go. Let's table it.
MR. CRAIBMAN s its do not need s second.
fATTBit UALap'3
MR. CRAIRW: May we hew a word of appreciation of Oliver Jones*
work with us, as he leaves us.
MR. MACKI: The Board wishes to recognise Mr. Oliver Jones' long
period of conscientious service and to express its
gratttde for his counsel and his overall contribu-
tions to the Zoning Board of Appeals and to the City
of Ithaca in general.
I, LILLIAN M. KNOWN, duly appointed staao8vopher in
the within setters, 00 CERTIFY that I took the minutes of the hearings before
the Board of Zoning Appeals, City of Ithaoa, State of Now York, oa OvesabMr
13, 1963; that I have transcribed the saw and the foregoing is a true and
correct copy of such transcript, to the best of cry abilityo tad the whole
thereof.
�w�M111 Y lii.r/��I IIIIYiIIY