HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-BZA-1978-03-07 li I
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MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, ITHACA,
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NEW YORK - MARCH 7 , 1978
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'; APPEAL NO. 1190 Richard B. Rhodes 2
212 W. Buffalo Street
!! APPEAL NO. 1190 Executive Session 6
i;. APPEAL NO. 1191 Benedetto & Filomena LaRocca 7
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908 North Tioga Street I
APPEAL NO. 1191 Executive Session 17
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'; APPEAL NO. 1192 Anthony Albanese for
Cox Restaurant 18
', APPEAL NO. 1192 Executive Session 69
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;; APPEAL NO. 1193 Anthony Albanese for
JaBe Mills Pet Foods 70 j
i1APPEAL NO. 1193 Executive Session 74
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dAPPEAL NO. 3-1- 78 Anthony Albanese for
Ithaca Calendar Clock Co . Sign 75
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APPEAL NO . 3-1- 78 Executive Session 80 j
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': APPEAL NO. 1194 Norman Long 81
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`I 208 Stewart Avenue
ii APPEAL NO. 1195 Roger Dennis 81
?I 17- 21 Hudson Place
jIAPPEAL NO. 1195 Executive Session 98 I�
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!' CERTIFICATION OF RECORDING SECRETARY 100
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
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CITY OF ITHACA I
March 7, 1978
� A regular meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals , City of Ithaca,
was held in the Common Council Chambers , City Hall, Ithaca, New j
York on March 7, 1978 :
PRESENT: Peter Martin, Chairman
Judith Maxwell
Dr. Martin Greenberg
William Wilcox
Joseph Gainey, Jr.
Thomas Hoard, Secretary to the
Board and Building
Commissioner
Barbara C . Ruane, Recording
Secretary
ABSENT: Gregory Kasprzak
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN called the March meeting of the Ithaca City Zoning
!Board of Appeals together . The Board operates under the provisions!
, of the Ithaca Zoning Ordinance and the Ithaca City Charter and the i
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!!Ithaca Sign Ordinance. Present this evening are all but one member!
jof the Board. For those of you who have not taken part in Board
hearings before, let me briefly outline our procedure . We take up
the cases in the order in which the applications or appeals have
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=been filed; we hear all testimony and evidence in one case and then]
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,move on to the next. On a particular case we hear first the appel-
Ilant and then anyone else who wants to speak in favor of the re-
quested action and then we invite anyone who wants to speak in
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Ilopposition, to be heard. Our hearings are not governed by strict
rules of evidence, we do ask that everyone who speaks come forward
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llto the front of the room, identify themself by name and address !
!and limit their remarks to the precise issues that are before the
IlBoard and not deal in extraneous matters . After hearing all of
I�the cases , in full public hearing then the Board goes into executiv�
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session to deliberate on what we heard and to reach a decision.
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When we have reached those decisions the Board reconvenes in public!
! session for those of you who want to wait around for it and announc�s
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the result and explains the grounds of those decisions . Mr. I
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Secretary what is our first case?
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!SECRETARY
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!SECRETARY HOARD announced the first case to be heard:
APPEAL NO. 1190 : Appeal of Richard B. Rhodes for
I` a use variance under Section
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30 . 25 Column 2, and an area
variance under Section 30 . 25
Columns 11 and 14, to convert
the first floor of the premises
at 212 West Buffalo Street to
a dental office and laboratory.
A dental office is permitted in
the R- 3a zone in which the
property is located, but the
ordinance is unclear on the
matter of the dental laboratory.;
The property is also deficient
f�j in front yard setbacks on Buffa-
to and Albany Streets , and is j
l( also deficient in rear yard
depth.
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ROBERT WILLIAMSON: Mr. Chairman, with me this evening is my
,,client Dr. Richard Rhodes who is a dentist and with me also is
JlLouis Thaler who represents the owner of the property. As indicated;
!by Tom Hoard this is a request for a variance for a use permit
land a building permit under the sections of the ordinance , Sec.
130. 25, Column 2 and Section 30 . 25, Columns 11 and 14. My client
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is a dentist who specializes in reconstructive dental medicine,
in other words he reconstructs the mouth . And I think that ' s
important, he does not engage in general dentistry. His clientele
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may come for 3 hr. appointments , in other words all morning or all
afternoon. It is a reconstruction of the mouth in which Dr. Rhodes;
lis engaged. I say that because I think it 's important in consider
ing the off-street parking aspect of this matter. The property
that he wishes to purchase is owned by the Maude Gillette estate
j;at 212 W. Buffalo Street and Mr. Louis K. Thaler is here represent-1
11�ing the estate. This property is in excellent condition and was
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built prior to 1900 and as you can readily see , in those days -
!!that was far before any zoning ordinance was ever in effect in the
.city and, as Mr. Hoard also indicated, we do not conform to the
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11front yard set back, the side yard set back or the rear yard set
llback. I hasten to add, however , that we do have 2 garages on the
; property, which exit onto Buffalo St. and ample room for 6 to 8
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toff street parking spaces and I say that this is ample to take
llcare of the Doctor and his dental hygenist needs for parking as
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well as his patients .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Am I right that this complies then with the
requirements of the Ordinance so that that is not part of the
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variance you are seeking?
ROBERT WILLIAMSON: Well, if you are referring to - I 'm saying
that the dental office itself complys with R-3 requirements , I e
think that the Planning Board felt that the laboratory which the
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Doctor wants to have in the office , Mr. Chairman, is a laboratory
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only for his own patients . In other words , as you would realize
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the has to do certain appliances . . . . j
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: That was the understanding that we had from the
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' minutes of the Planning Board meeting.
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�jROBERT WILLIAMSON: That is correct. He is not in the business of
�Idoing laboratory work for all dentists in the City or anyplace else!.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: So that it is purely an adjunct then of his
practice. . . .
ROBERT WILLIAMSON: Absolutely.
!CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Then the understanding under which the Planning
;Board was operating and it sounded reasonable to me was that there
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Iwas no use variance required, that that made it simply a part of '
the dental practice which was a permitted use in an R-3. So that j
to focus on the issues then for this Board they pertain to area
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!!variance that will be necessary because you have a non-conforming
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fIstructure in which there is a change of use. I
(ROBERT WILLIAMSON: Correct. Yes . I
!(CHAIRMAN MARTIN: So what I am trying to understand now are what
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[(those area variances are . Do they include the parking or not? I
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,i ROBERT WILLIAMSON: I think it is only the front yard set back,
Ilthe side yard and the rear yard.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay.
ROBERT WILLIAMSON: And I hasten again to state that the house was
1built prior to the 19001s . It' s in excellent condition and Dr.
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Rhodes will keep it that way. There is an apartment upstairs
in which there lives a long time tenant and Dr. Rhodes intends to
have the tenant continue on as long as she wishes and as you would )
imagine, there is no way that when they built this home back in
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x1890 - that they would envision requirements of set back from the
ilfront, the side and the rear. And so that is the reason for our
E' request. There is absolutely no way they could have realized that
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11may be a requirement in these days and I feel that this variance
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' should be granted for that reason. j
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,CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there questions from the members of the j
Board? Are you planning on having witnesses , Dr. Rhodes or others .. ?
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ROBERT WILLIAMSON: Dr. Rhodes is here, you have a long agenda
and I don' t like to make it lengthier than it need be. Dr. Rhodes
, is here and Lou Thaler is here also . . . . .
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(CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I simply didn' t want to be premature with open-
ling things up for questions but you are holding them in reserve in
�icase there are questions for them? Are there any questions from
{members of the Board?
i�IROBERT WILLIAMSON: Yes , they both are here .
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(CHAIRMAN MARTIN: There is no misunderstanding on the point that
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�ithe dental lab will be used only for the practice . I mean that' s
jJwhat we have from the Planning Board hearing and that. . . . . .
dROBERT WILLIAMSON: That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
'?CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright. Any questions from members of the
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`Board? I see none.
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(ROBERT WILLIAMSON: Thank you,
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�iCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright - on this case, Case 1190 , the proposal
I11to put a dental office and lab in a property which does not meet
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IIcertain of the yard requirements of the R- 3 zone in which it is
l� located - are there any others who would like to speak, first
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are there any who would like to speak in favor of the requested
( variance? Are there any who would like to speak in opposition? f
jde ' llmove on then to the next case.
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
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i' CITY OF ITHACA
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!' MARCH 7 , 1978
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EXECUTIVE SESSION
( APPEAL NO. 1190
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I move that the area variance in case 1190
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be granted.
DR. GREENBERG: I second the motion.
FINDING OF FACT: 1) Since the lab will be used only in connection
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with Dr. Rhodes ' practice no use variance isl
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required. I
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2) The building was located on the lot before i
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present zoning requirements were enacted
and the change in use should have no signi-
ficant impact on the neighborhood. Testimon�
presented on the nature of Dr. Rhodes ' prac- !
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tice indicates that it will not generate
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heavy traffic.
3) There is adequate off-street parking on the
property .
VOTE : S Yes ; 0 No .
Area variance granted, �
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;ISECRETARY HOARD announced the next appeal to be heard:
APPEAL NO. 1191: Appeal of Benedetto and Filomena
( LaRocca for an area variance under(
!i Section 30 . 25 , Columns 10, 12 !
�i and 13, to convert the single-
family dwelling at 908 North
Tioga Street to a two-family
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cient in both side yards , and the
lot coverage by the existing buil `
ings exceeds the maximum permittel
in the R- 2b (Residential) district
in which the property is located.
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Lou Thaler is here to represent the case.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright. This is a case which has been before
the Board not too long ago. The variance requested here was re-
quested and denied in November of 1977 by the Board so that it
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ficomes here in the posture of a request, I would gather, for a I
I�reconsideration of that November decision which focuses the issue
more narrowly to one of whether there is some new consideration
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or new evidence that the Board did not have at that November
!hearing which you now have to lay before us , Mr. Thaler.
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jILOUIS THALER: I have Mr. Chairman. At that time I was asked the
Inumber of rooms and I since have made some investigation. Down-
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stairs there are 3 rooms , kitchen and a bath - and it is now
occupied by a husband and wife which at that time it was not. And
lupstairs is room and I again say a separate entrance off the porch.!
At the time of the hearing before the Planning Board it was mentioned
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(that the entrance is off the kitchen which is not true, there is a
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door off the dining room which can be eliminated so that it would
have a private separate entrance off the porch and the upstairs is
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room for 4 rooms and a bath and I submit that that could only be
'occupied by a husband and wife, either a young couple or retirees
and it' s been my experience that there is quite a demand for senior
to have a small apartment and would have no difficulty in renting
the downstairs since our last hearing . And I also would like to
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�Ipoint out to the Board, as you probably know, that there are 2
,' apartment buildings in this area that is within the provisions
!of the zoning ordinance as it now exists . It' s true this building
'Iwas probably built long before 1890 because it was in the Freese
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Ifamily for about 100 years . At the time that I represented the
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exector of the Fanny Freese's estate and looked at the abstract
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of title, I found that her father purchased the lot there or
j1whatever - I assume it was just a lot at the time - just about
111100 years at the time that she passed away. Now these folks bought,
the property from the estate in good faith - they have 2 other 2-
family dwellings in that area which are being very well maintained
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Iby them, both inside and outside - they were examined from the
1outside by the Building Commissioner. He made an examination of f
I�the interior of the property on Tioga Street which is now before
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I;the Board and I feel that these folks who bought the property in
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t, good faith expecting that they could have 2 families or - should
111be permitted to do it because it would be a hardship upon them '
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; and it lends itself very readily to 2 small families as I have
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pointed out to you and that is the reason that I have come back I
1Ibecause I felt that I was not sufficiently informed at the pre-
1�vious hearing so that I could answer the Question. If there are
!any further Questions I will be glad to answer them.
{JOE GAINEY: If I 'm not mistaken this has been a one- family house
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;for Quite some number of years .
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l�LOU THALER: Well, yes , At the time that the Freese family lived j
Ian it there were a father, mother and 4 children. But there were
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'more people living in it than would occupy it now.
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I�JOE GAINEY: This side entrance that you are talking about - that
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lready existed right? This is not an entrance that they have
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!gone and. . . . . . .
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1:1LOU THALER: That entrance has been there probably for some time .
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Ny guess is - and that is a presumption of course -
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!;JOE GAINEY: So when they bought this house, then, it was a one-
;+family dwelling? It was not a two family dwelling? i
I, LOU THALER: No it was not used by 2 families . As a matter of
jfact when they bought it from the estate I represented the
lexecutor and that ' s why I 'm here now. . . . . .
60EGAINEY: This house will have to be converted?
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LOU THALER: Yes it will be - it was occupied by Fanny Freese alone
after - she was the last of the mohicans so to speak - her family j
had all passed on - her mother, her father, her sisters and her
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!brother .
,lJOE GAINEY: Alright, if I 'm not mistaken then - we just had
;changes made down there in that neighborhood to control the
;number of 2 family houses that were being converted down there. . .
�Iland. . . . .
!CHAIRMAN MARTI •1: This was like many other neighborhoods in the
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,jcity, part of the residential rezoning effort that went on last
;year, so there are new zoning requirements in affect there . They-
!in terms of use - the use stipulation - are not violated by the
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proposal - the problem comes with the yard size requirements .
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LOU THALER: Yard variance - that 's what we are after .
'CHAIRMAN MARTIN: But that does figure in the grounds of the Board' S
jdecision last November and the advice that we've had consistently
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from the Planning Board on this case that neighborhoods have been
;!part of a study and a rezoning effort which would be substantially
flunderccut if, in a case of a significant deficiency, such as this ,
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la variance was granted.
fILOU THALER: Well before - I would also like to point out that therb
� is - what we used to call as kids , a barn, but it can be used as a
(garage. And there is also area between the house and the barn -
�Ito the rear of the house -so that there can be no problem as to
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jioff-street parking - I mean on-street parking because there is
more than sufficient room for off-street parking, especially if it
pis developed - as it apparently will be - for people - two downstairs
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jt.nd two up.
(HAIRMAN MARTIN: Well - focusing on the presentation this evening j
nd trying to compare it to what we heard last November, strikes
I e that the principal new evidence concerns the precise number of
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ooms .
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JOU THALER: That' s correct.
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1PHAIRMAN MARTIN: That otherwise - time has gone by and there is
�' ow some people downstairs but everything else that we 've heard,
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I e 've heard before.
OU THALER: That' s right - essentially, except that I , unfortunately,
! ouldn' t answer that question and I hadn' t made an inspection -
either I nor the Building Commissioner, prior to the other hearing.'
i�nd I might also like to point out that the Building Commissioner,
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nd I think rightly so , asked me to take him so he could see , as I
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ktated the other 2 places that these folks own and he saw how well
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they are being kept. I
HAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there questions from the Board?
PU THALER: And I 'd like for you to have in mind it 's a hardship
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or these people because they bought it in good faith, from the
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xecutor of the estate expecting that they would be able to convert !
t to 2 families .
I� OE GAINEY: I don' t see what the hardship is .
'�OU THALER: They paid it - the price was paid accordingly.
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j HAIRMAN MARTIN: That point was made before in November and at
j� hat point I expressed curiousity - I do again now. How might i
I1;; hey have been led to that belief when - had they looked at the
��oning ordinance they would have seen that there were deficiencies?
(�OU THALER: Well, it ' s true that there is a rule of law that ig-
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1�orance is not - is no excuse .
JFHAIRMAN MARTIN: Were they represented or. . .
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;LOU THALER: No - well they were represented by an attorney but
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IInot to that extent and I ' d like for you to take into consideration
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! that these folks are not as well versed in matters as you and I or
members of the Board. I think you should take that into considera-
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(tion in all fairness .
��ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: You represented the seller, they had their own
1,re res nta ion
p e t . . . .
LOU THALER: That is correct.
ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: And as you watched things happen, they had the
impression that they could put it into 2 family use.
LOU THALER: That is correct and they spoke about having 2 other
places in that area where they had 2 families , without any difficulty.
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JOE GAINEY: Those houses were probably purchased before the new
zoning laws took affect.
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LOU THALER: That could very well be, however, again I say. . .
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JOE GAINEY: I can' t see where it's a hardship to the point where
the law is law. It stated they were represented by an attorney, yon
have to look into these things .
;(LOU THALER: Granted, its . . . . . . Right but if you ever heard of a
flaw of equity they think there are ways - this isn' t a strict rule, !
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,this is a rule where all they are asking for is a variance on area. ;
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lAnd if the rest of it is brought up to code I can' t see where it is'
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Jany different from their other homes that they own in that area.
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lAs a matter of fact, if it was used as a one-family house, more
jpeople would be using it then will be using it as a 2-family house
because of the number of rooms and it was that way before they boug�t
1it . When the Freese family had it more people were in it .
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!CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there any further questions from members of
lthe Board? Thank you.
��LOU TRACER: You are welcome.
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! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Is there anyone else who would like to be heard
ion this request for a reconsideration of a Board denial of a vari-
;lance last November? Is there anyone who would like to speak in
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Ifavor of the request for reconsideration? Is there anyone who
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(would like against it? Please come forward.
SHEILA MUNCH: I 'm Sheila Munch, I live at 902 N. Tioga Street.
.First of all, I don' t like to come up here and speak but the thing
11that bothers me about the whole thing is the fact of the absentee
landlord. We own a house at 902 N. Tioga. That is a 2 family
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house. We've had tenants that we 've had trouble with and I feel
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that being a landlord you need to be there to see what the people
`are doing and being an absentee landlord, it would be just about
) impossible . There are other houses in the area that have been
changed to 2-family and there have been students in them. We 've
had a lot of trouble with noise and they might say that they are
putting in retired people and older people now but who is to say
later on it ' s not going to be more students and our area does not
need more students .
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Without in any way attempting to rebut your point.
I ' d like to make this point. If there were enough yard around that{
property - it wouldn' t be here. There would be no question but
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that they could go ahead and turn that into a 2 family dwelling
ecause that use is permitted and absentee ownership or on premises )
joccupancy by the owner would make no difference . So that, while
what you say is quite true I don ' t think the Board can take it into;
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;account, anymore than it can take into account the fact that the
11IlLaRoccas have taken good care of the other properties that they own'
IThose are matters which may reflect on problems of the neighborhood;
�I:and, on the other hand, how good owners and care takers of the
jjproperty the LaRoccas are but it doesn' t bear upon the matter of
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�Ithe variance . i
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i1MRS . MUNCH: Well then I am misinformed on the zoning laws . Because
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'I thought that was part of it.
LOU THALER: May I quickly answer that?
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Well, no. I ' d like to hear the other people in i
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Ilopposition and then if there are unanswered points I would certainl
11invite you to respond to them. j
TRAY BORDONI : I 'm Ray Bordoni , the Councilman from that area and I j
am speaking for myself, Robert Boothroyd, the other Councilman j
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from that area, and several residents from that area that just
(aren' t willing to come up in front of a body like this and talk.
It ' s not my favorite hobby either but I will remind everybody , I
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4don' t think we 've heard this mentioned yet, that the deficiency in
the yards - is not just a little bit. My understanding is that
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the building coverage on the existing property is 58% rather than
'1350 . I think this is quite a bit more than what should be allowable.
To digress a little bit more, we 've had too many conversions in
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Ilthat area, in the entire fall creek area, too many conversions in
1�most of the residential areas in the city . This has led to problem
with population density, parking and traffic. The reason for the I
11977 rezoning was to restore the residential character to these
11eighborhoods . I must remind you of that. I am sure that most of i
1�ou are aware of it. I 've grown up in that area I have lived on
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tica Street for 39 years , I 've seen what was once a nice quiet
residential area, turn into a neighborhood that has transient per-
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sonnel where sometimes you hardly know the people who live next
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' door to you or across the street from you. It has changed the
;character of the area and I think our rezoning laws were put into ii
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(iaffect just for that purpose to try to reverse that trend. As far
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as I can see we are still dealing with the same reasons now that we!
were before. The property was deficient and it still is . I urge y�u
to keep that in mind. Thank you very much.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Is there any further bearing on this request
;;that the Board reconsider its denial of a variance last November?
Now there was a point made Mr. Thaler that you wanted to respond to�
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LOU THALER: Yes , very briefly. These folks are not absentee owner
they live within 4 or 5 blocks of there and they 've , as I say as I
evidence of the kind of owners that they are, the 2 properties that
they now own - where there are 2 families in each of them, how well;
(kept they are, how well behaved the people are that are in it and
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lyou can rest assured that after they have spent considerable money
`lin renovating this property there will be good tenants there . And
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Ino parking problems .
IDR. GREENBERG: Mr. Thaler, I 'm asking a question because Mr.
Bordoni left very quickly. How many properties have 35% coverage
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!in that area - of their lot size? How many would you think or
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{lestimate?
�ILOU THALER: I say none . And I defiant to point one out that only
11occupies 35% of the land.
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1DR. GREENBERG : Thank you.
I�ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: That question I gather was for you Mr. Bordoni .
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�MR. BORDONI : I wouldn' t dare attempt to answer that question as
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quickly and surely as Mr. Thaler did because I don' t think he has
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the figures to deal with it and neither do I .
LOU THALER: I lived in that area a lot longer than Mr. Bordoni
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sand was proud of it.
IJ OE GAIN Y: That ' s beside the point .
'CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Is there any further testimony on this case?
Yes . Could you please come on up front and identify yourself?
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RONALD HOUSE: My name is ;cnalc; House , I live at 904 N. Tioga
(Street. Sorry I got here a little bit late. I spoke here back in
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November about this issue. I haven' t spoken to many of my neighbor$
1� n the last few days , at least 3 or 4 of them are away. The conveT-
f ation I did have a few weeks ago however hasn' t changed my mind ani.
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t 'm not really happy about the fact that we talked about this once
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`before and now we have to come back and talk again about a variance.;
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The main issue that I see is that it didn' t comply before and I �
on' t see why the property should be changed from the single dwell-
}ng residence that we 've had in the past to one of occupying at
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.east 2 families in that home. It is my understanding that people I
hat presently bought it are not going to be living there . I would !
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ike to see that neighborhood stay the way it has been over the yeas .
moved in there because it was a single dwelling family type commuoi-
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ty and the main issue that I see here is that how many times do we j
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ave to come back and talk about a variance? If this does pass I ' d
also like to raise the Question as to whether and what alternatives
� e have to come back and seek a change in that variance? `
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HAIRMAN MARTIN: Well, as I 've said - I gather before you came in -
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his is here not as a fresh request for a variance but in the form !
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�f a motion to the Board that they reconsider the action taken and
hat limits our field of vision. Ude are asking the appellant if
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lhere is anything new to tell us . And frankly my ears didn ' t hear
uch new but that was - I am just speaking for myself. Other member's
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f the Board were listening for the same thing and that' s what we
i�sked from others who were present . So that it ' s not as though this,
hing is being taken a clean new swing at but a rather tough job
hat the appellant has taken on himself.
ONALD HOUSE: Thank you.
HAIRMAN MARTIN: Any further testimony on this case? Yes .
AN RHOADES: My name is Dan Rhoades , I live at 620 N. Tioga Street.]
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'rp one of the organizers of the Fall Creek Civic Association and
ne of the reasons that we came tonight was to speak out against
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his proposed zoning change . We fought for a year and one half to
et that new zoning law passed through Common Council, supposedly j
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1�o restore our neighborhood back onto a residential neighborhood and
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6w what you - if you push through an exemption this time what ' s i
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'- going to happen next time it happens , are you going to push through
4 another exemption to it? In other words are we - is the law going !
to become meaningless? This is what we are trying to avoid. We
fought hard to preserve our residential neighborhood down there,
�, we want to keep it that way, because we were getting sandwiched -
� so to speak - by landlords who came in there and what they were
sdoing was buying property and then sardining - what they call sard ..
ining students - into the housing down there - by that I mean they
were putting more students than the property called for as far as
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habitation is concerned. This is what we have tried to avoid -
this is why we pushed through that zoning law to protect the indi-
vidual residential character of that neighborhood and we just don' -
Ithat's why we feel that we have to speak out against this proposed !
change .
IICHAIRMAN MARTIN: And I ' ll repeat that the Board is very sensitives
to those concerns and it did last November deny this variance on I
F€ that - among other, grounds and this is only back here because the !
! appellant thought they had some new information to lay before us .
DAN RHOADES: Thank you.
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I1CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Is there anything additional that hasn' t been
11said that should be said on this case? Let us move on then to
the next.
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
!' CITY OF ITHACA
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�i MARCH 7 , 1978
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EXECUTIVE SESSION I
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APPEAL NO. 1191 :
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I move in Case 1191 that the Board not
reconsider the denial of the variance that
it denied in December 1977 (_Appeal No . 1182)
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I MR. WILCOX: I second the motion.
FINDING OF FACT: No material new evidence was presented at
�g this hearing that would warrant reopening
the case .
VOTE: 5 Yes ; 0 No.
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ISECRETARY HOARD announced the next appeal to be heard:
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APPEAL NO. 1192 : Appeal of Anthony Albanese for a use var+
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iance under Section 30 . 25 , Column 2 , to
use part of the premises at 102 Adams
jp Street (the old Ithaca Calendar Clock
'I Company building) for a restaurant . The !
building is located in an R- 2b (residen
jtial) use district where restaurants arel
not a permitted use .
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Let me try to set the stage very quickly - again ! -
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in an effort to keep us from devoting time to material we don' t need
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to. This is the most recent in a series of requests for variances
on this property. The Board, in a much earlier action, decided
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1Ithat the property owned by Mr. Albanese could not reasonably be
Mused for a residence even though it ' s in a neighborhood that is
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zoned for residences and so it made the necessary findings of hardt
( ship that would warrant a use variance but in that original variance ,
it said that before any new uses were put in the building a request
for a variance would have to be made here and on the sub-- sequent
�iloccasion we would be reviewing the proposed use and its compatibilT
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lity with the neighborhood. So we need not hear tonight , unless the
I� Board thinks otherwise , new evidence about hardship or the compatit
1iIbility of a residential or the possibility of a residential use ofl
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�lthat property - all we need here is testimony about what is proposed
�yand its likely impact on the neighborhood.
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(s GEORGE PATTE : Mr. Chairman and members of the Board, my name is
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George Patte . I represent William Cox and James Colangeli , the j
, applicants with Mr. Anthony Albanese . Mr. Cox is here tonight andi
IIsits at the end of the table on my left and Mr . Rick Albanese is
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; here representing his father, on my right at the end of the table.
I I take it from the introduction Mr. Chairman, and from the silence !
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I� of the rest of the Board members that testimony in regard to hard- `
11ship in fact will be unnecessary, is that a correct understanding? f
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11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: That ' s right unless any member of the Board want
�, to be persuaded again that the Ithaca Clock Factory can' t be used
!! for residents .
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!l' MR. PATTE : I plan to call at least four witnesses , Mr . Chairman
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Mand - two of whom sit before you now at the table . I have specifi6
iquestions I want to ask and I simply ask for your advice in terms
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of a format . I assume that I can ask questions from here of any
witness I wish to call and have them sit . . .
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Yes . The one concern is that we get it all in I
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Ilaudible fashion on our tape so that to the extent that your wit-
finesses are able to come up front with you near the tape recorder , j
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I it eases things for us . If that is possible why don' t you do it b
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iI that way?
�IMR. PATTE : Fine . I ' d like to start with the explanation of the
recent modifications which were proposed by me on behalf of both
filMr. Cox and Mr. Albanese . The modifications - I ' ll start again.
(after a complaint from the audience that he couldn' t be heard) .
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II wanted to start this evening by making it clear that we have j
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! amended our original application. We have amended it as follows :
in terms of square feet for this restaurant proposal in the old
Clock Factory Building we have proposed 3, 775 square feet to be us d
I! for the restaurant . That is a reduction from your original pro-
posal of 5 , 300 plus , square feet. Second, we have reduced the seat -
ing capacity from roughly 220 down to 150 total seats . The seatin
will be broken down in terms of 120 seats for dining and thirty seats
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iin the lounge area. Third, we have proposed that we are prepared o
The permitted to build a buffer, a screen for shrubbery or combination
of both which would be sufficient to insulate nearby neighbors fro�
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any noise or bother that may originate in the parking area or the
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restaurant in general . Fourth, in terms of the parking itself, the
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�parking plan remains intact and it calls for forty-three spaces fob
�11the 150 seats inside. I believe that ' s a ratio of about one parking
�ispace for every - roughly 3 . 5 seats inside and I think the Board
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jmembers are well aware that that would fall well within the recommejn-
Iided parking requirement for a parking space for every five seats i
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Ila business area. In addition we are prepared to state on the reco d
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! before you that parking will be supervised. That is to say that
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;; parking will be supervised by an attendant at all times in the
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parking area itself. It would be under his direct control and we f
`l think that that would take care of a lot of the problems that could
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�loriginate in the parking area. We feel that our proposal is a conf
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cept which is going to offer quality dining, in a first class res-
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taurant and will enhance not only the building itself, in the Fall ;
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Creek area, on Adams Street, Dey Street and Auburn Street in the i
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(! immediate area but will enhance the neighborhood too . We want to
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stress the positive aspects and in order to do that , I think that
should at this time show you the schematic drawing which our archi+
tect, Mr. Anton Egner, has prepared for us .
+ CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I have one question more before you do that. Your
proposition has gotten more specific and smaller in a few respects
I am curious about the hours of operation and where they now standil
MR. PATTE : Okay. I was going to let Mr. Cox, himself, answer than.
iquestion for you and could I put it off for a moment and show you
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l� the schematic . . . ?
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iCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Go ahead.
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4MR. PATTE: Thank you. I have here a schematic drawing of a one
level plan for the restaurant . It takes up the Adams Street side
hn the second floor and it extends partially back on the Auburn
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1Street side - part of the way back on one wing. As I said it is aj
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total of 3, 775 square feet and I 'd like to lay it out for you just
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lin terms of the color scheme perhaps - some or all of you can makel
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that out . First of all the dining facility itself is 120 seats ands
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lit calls for 1 ,625 square feet in the dining area. That ' s the greeln
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area. The kitchen sits in back of that and it' s 750 square feet -
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that ' s the brown area that you see . The red area that you see over]
(here - cross-hatched - is the lounge area which is 600 square feet
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iwith a thirty seat capacity. Now we have an assorted collection of!
Fother space toward the Adams Street side which makes up the deficit
' in the square footage - it ' s made up of storage area, toilet facilil-
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11ties - toilet facilities being 380 square feet and perhaps the most
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significant remaining part of the space and then also a room for
reception and coat area, stairway and elevator. By the way that
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! would be a new elevator that would be put in there at a substantia
! investment . I ' d also like to show the parking area.
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Question from the floor: Unintelligible .
MR. PATTE: Is this proper at this time?
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Sir, we' ll have plenty of opportunity for questions
and further elaboration after they have completed their presenta-
tion but I would like it if you could leave the questioning to the !
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Board members at this time. We 'd be glad to keep anything here wel
need to have to get questions .
MR. PATTE : I also have here something that I 'm sure will be hardei
to see for most of you folks but it represents the whole building, ;
outlined roughly as follows . That would be the whole building and '',
+ that is surrounded by parking spaces laid out around two sides of
iIthe building on the Auburn Street side there is a main entrance . i
IThere is no entrance on the Adams Street side which adjoins the pack .
That has been eliminated, principally in mind there was the fact
that the park area is used by children and others and that keeping '
jthe entrance away from that park use would be advisable. There aro
a total of thirty-nine (39) spaces shown in the diagram. In addi
tion to that there is a loading area located approximately here
(pointing) that in the evening when it ' s not being used for a load4,
ing area by any of the businesses there would accommodate four card
, so therefore I say there is forty-three total parking spaces .
EMR. GAINEY: I have a question for you. The letter that you sub-
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mitted here says that the entrance will be on the Adams Street or
the Auburn Street side , if I 'm not mistaken. Is there still an en
trance way on Adams Street or has that been completely closed off? '
� MR. PATTE : There is a - let me start again. The entrance way I was
speaking of was the walk entry way into the restaurant . The entry !
way I referred to for the parking lot was the parking lot entrance ';
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, only. The actual entry way that you would walk into to get into the
building , into the restaurant could conceivably be on the Adams Street
side. That is - we have not gone that far with our plans yet . It
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!: would be either on the Adams Street side or on the Auburn Street
!' side - the actual walk way entry way to the restaurant. There would
; have to be a stairway up along with an elevator .
.; CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Now these parking spaces you counted for us - hoer
many additional parking spaces are there for that building which afe
allocated to other tenants? I mean what part of the whole do those
I� comprise - those thirty-nine that you counted for us?
, MR. PATTE : I would defer that question to Mr. Albanese who is more
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aware of that . Can you answer that?
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Can you answer that question? How many . . . i
MR. ALBANESE : Yes . At this time, or I was going to get into it
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later . . . There will be eleven that are used at the present time
during the day.
:; CHAIRMAN MARTIN: But by other tenants?
MR. ALBANESE: Right.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: So that the total spaces are those eleven plus te
thirty-nine?
(1MR. ALBANESE: No . The eleven is deducted from thirty-nine . In
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! other words , of the thirty-nine . . .
, CHAIRMAN MARTIN: There are for the building, thirty-nine spaces?
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{ MR. ALBANESE: That is correct.
IIICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Eleven of them are in the daytime used by other
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tenants so in the day . . .
IMR. ALBANESE : At some time during the day, right. We have to
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! designate a space , two spaces for each small business .
11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay, because many of those spaces have already leen
! counted in earlier variances - you know, relied on in earlier var- '
iances that the Board granted for other tenants , so that in a sensd
they are being counted again tonight in favor of this request. Thd
rationale is , for those eleven, that they will be available at the ;
! night time when the restaurant will be open.
�IMR. PATTE : That is correct , Mr . Chairman. Unless there are furthgr
squestions on the parking I will drop that and point out as a follow!
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�, up that the investment made by both Mr . Cox and Mr. Albanese is su$-
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istantial . We plan to present further proof but at this time we world
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like to say that each of their individual investments will be in
the neighborhood of $110,000 tol20 , 000 . That is Mr. Cox will
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make that investment as will , in addition, Mr. Albanese will make !
that investment . That figure is a rough estimate but we are sure !
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Ii that we are in that neighborhood for each in terms of that capita.
investment. That - in regard to Mr . Albanese that investment is !
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in addition to investments he has already made . At this time I j
would like to turn to Mr. William Cox and ask questions of him, Ii
I may, of which I think will answer your earlier question.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay. Could he come forward and speak loudly s¢
jl that not only our tape but those in the rear can hear you. I!
MR. PATTE : I would first like the Board members and members of t�e
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public in general to be aware of Mr. Cox' s background. I think i�
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can safely be said that he comes from a restaurant family. He is
a third generation to be in the business . He is devoted to the
business and he comes to you tonight to explain a little further
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about his background and a little further about his particular co -
!f cept here . I think perhaps that he would like to start out in
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terms of his background with his father ' s restaurant. �
MR. COX: I simply want to say that my father ran a restaurant in !
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4 Homer, New York for approximately forty years , before that my
!i grandfather was associated with that operation and that my trainig
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came through that operation and we intend to bring the same calibte
and the same type of operation restaurant to this location. To
'j attest to the type of operation we ran in the town of Homer for
the forty years , I brought along a few letters that George might
I like to read to you from local members of the community who , you
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might be interested in hearing from as far as the type of operati�n
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that Dasher, my father, ran for quite a long time .
!i CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Well , I leave - I guess - such questions to tho
Board ' s discretion. I think we can take it as a given that the
II Dasher is a fine restaurant and that your intention is to have th s
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1 MR. COX: Yes that is correct . I thought possibly you might need
,t g P Y Y g
testimony as to the type of operation that he ran. Or that you
ii might like it - I don' t . . .
�ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: No . Our main concern here with the variance is 1
! with the impact of the proposed restaurant on that neighborhood.
' Impact in such terms as traffic , movement in and out , noise , etc .
MR. COX: Okay the only - our only concern was we were led to beli ve
that one of your concerns was the calibre of the restaurant we werq
proposing. In fact, it might be misconstrued as a bar or somethin
( along those lines , so we were prepared to argue that .
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�iCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Well , let us - unless there are doubts on the
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subject , take it as a given, that what you intend is a high-qualit�,
ilrestaurant, however, we might take that term.
MR. PATTE : Mr . Chairman, if that is brought into issue , could I b4
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free at that point to furnish these letters?
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: If that becomes an issue then surely we can j
unfurl the letters of testimonial .
IMR. COX: Alright , thank you.
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( MR. PATTE : In addition to that, if you would stay here for just al
second, I know your question was in regards to hours of operation j
and I ' d like to get into that a little bit right now.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Right. I would like some as much apecificity on
ithat point as you can give us at this point .
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MR. COX: Alright , I can tell you exactly. We would be serving on a
seven day basis we would be serving Monday through Friday . . . 1
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Mr. Cox said that so far they are going to operatie
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seven days a week and then he was about to say:
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MR. COX: We would be serving Monday through Friday - through Thursiday,
` I 'm sorry, dinners between the hours of 5 and 10 : 00 with probably the
peak hours , if you are concerned about that , between the hours of
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6 and 8 .
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1MRS. MAXWELL : Would you close at 10 : 00?
11MR. COX: The operation would not close at 10 : 00 . We would stay
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open for approximately - during the week we would be open at the
latest by midnight - on the weekends until about 1 : 00 . !
I MR. GAINEY: Weekend - do you include Friday and Saturday or Friday
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Saturday and Sunday?
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MR. COX: Friday and Saturday . . . Sunday is not - I wouldn' t say
is the weekend, I 'm sure some - it couldn' t be . . .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright , you've given us 5 to 10 as the hours fo
Monday through Thursday. Now would you tell us about the other days .
MR. COX: Okay. Friday and Saturday they would be 5 to 11 : 00 -
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serving dinner. We would be serving lunch from the hours of 11 : 30 ;
to 2 : 00 in the afternoon.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: 11 : 00 to 2 : 00 .
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MR. COX: 11 : 30 to 2 : 00 .
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: 11 : 30 to 2 : 00 now is that which day?
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IMR. COX: And those are Monday through Friday. i
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Monday through Friday.
IMR. COX: That ' s right.
IMRS. MAXWELL : Would the lounge area be open from 2 : 00 in the aftei-
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noon or do you intend to close it?
MR. COX: Well the lounge would be open but not as simply the fact !
that the whole operation would be open by the time you have cleare4
away your lunch trade you are practically in the preparation of tho
dinner. . .
MRS. MAXWELL : But there is no shut down?
MR. COX: There is no shut down between those hours , no . !
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i MRS. MAXWELL: So you are saying basically 11 : 30 to midnight? 4
MR. COX: That is correct.
MR. GAINEY: Are we led to believe then that the way you talked th�t
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your lounge area is going to close at the latest - Monday through
Thursday at midnight and on weekends - 11 : 00 o 'clock?
iMR. COX: At 11 : 00 o 'clock? No, . . .
jiCHAIRMAN MARTIN: 1 : 00 o 'clock - you answer the question. When on
Friday and Saturday?
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'! MR. COX: 1 : 00 will be the hour it is closed on the weekends - that ' s
Friday and Saturday. During the week it would be 12 : 00 .
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4ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay and can you tell us about Sunday? I think � e
haven' t yet set a time . .
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IMR. COX: Okay, Sunday we would be serving between the hours of
2 : 00 to 10 : 00 and also it would be pretty much the situation as faf
� as the lounge being closed at midnight . . . and - well , we ' ll let if
stand at that.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Now, at the Planning Board when you were talking )
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11about a larger capacity place you gave some break even figures whi( h
presumably gave one a sense of what you were counting on. Has tha�
�Igone down as your capacity has gone down or is that going to be th
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, same - fifty to one hundred dinners on a week day and two hundred
If on Fridays and Saturdays?
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IMR. COX: Well I don' t think those figures have gone down. I thin)
lin fact they weren' t break even points , they were more a question
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of projections .
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! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Projections . Alright. That ' s what you expect to
have? _
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I, MR. COX: Approximately. Within the range . . . i
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright - and so that stayed about the same even !
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ithough the number of seats has gone down?
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MR. COX: That ' s right.
IICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay.
MR. PATTE: Could I ask a question? In terms of average car - number
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of cars coming and going for a week day, when you expect to serve
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( fifty to one hundred dinners , do you have an estimation in terms of
i1number of cars coming and going in which period are you talking abdut?
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IMR. COX: Right , well the peak hours probably, in all probability from
Amy past experience has normally been in a restaurant between the
hours of 6 : 00 to 8 : 00 during the week . I would say on Friday and
{)Saturday 7 : 00 to 9 : 30 and those would be the period of times when
�Emost of your cars your traffic would be going through that area, ;
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jand if we take the average figure of seventy five during the week,
of total dinners - dinners served - you would have probably an
!' estimate of three people per car so you would have over five hours '
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approximately twenty five cars flowing to the restaurant and leavi g
the restaurant .
MR. GAINEY: How many people do you plan to employ?
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MR. COX: Well it will vary between - you know on the days . As fa
as actually working in the restaurant I would guess approximately
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l� twenty five to thirty people . You have to understand those are onf
�ivarying times and shifts and status also , I think.
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� MR. GAINEY: Alright, if you take half of that you are saying you 4av,
forty-three spaces . Are your employees going to use these spaces
I or are they going to park out on the street?
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MR. COX: They would be using spaces on the premises . j
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I MR. GAINEY: Okay so that cuts your parking right in half - that
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cuts your parking to twenty spaces for the business . Twenty-five
at the maximum.
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! MR. COX: You are saying that we have fifteen employees . . .
MR. GAINEY: That ' s right .
MR. COX: Well , the employees would definitely be using the spaces
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to park in. My understanding is the - well , no we' ll let it go at
�Ethat . That' s exactly right - they would be using the spots .
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!! MR. GAINEY: So now you are parking for your customers - has been
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scut drastically?
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MR. PATTE : It was my understanding, in terms of the parking, that !
1the, I think Mr. VanCort at the Planning Board level stated that j
Ithe parking requirement of the 1 to 5 ratio included employee parka
ing?
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: In terms of the Ordinance requirements that is
true.
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! MR. PATTE : Are there further questions in regard to hours of oper*
ation by the Board members for Mr. Cox?
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II DR. GREENBERG : There is a question I think that will probably be
i! asked later but I ' ll ask it now since the question was brought up
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H about the type of restaurant that Mr. Cox is associated with, is j
there any other type of activity such as a bar or night club that
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either you or your partner is involved in at the present time?
IMR. COX: Myself, I 'm now associated with the Rusty Nail , Inc . in
Cortland, New York, which is a restaurant . He now works for an I
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operation in Portland, Maine called F . Parker Reedies and they are !
both owned by the same - well , actually the Rusty Nail is now owne4
Iby an independent group but it was owned by the Fosters who operat$
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the restaurant that my partner works for and they are both restau
�irants by the way. I
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DR. GREENBERG: Both restaurants - that' s what I wanted to know.
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MR. GAINEY: They both have entertainment?
,, MR. COX: The Rusty Nail has entertainment ; F . Park Reedies does
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not .
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IMR. PATTE: Do you plan on having entertainment of a rock and roll
group nature?
IMR. COX: No we don't .
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( CHAIRMAN MARTIN: -Do you plan on having entertainment of some other ]
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nature?
MR. COX: We intend to have possibly a piano player but nothing
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more than that .
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Further questions? Thank you Mr. Cox.
IMR. PATTE : I had intended to let Mr . Albanese address himself to i
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the hardship issue and I take it that that is not going to be
( necessary?
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Right, although I think I for one have a few
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( questions I 'd like to ask Mr. Albanese. Is that all you were goin�
to have him speak on?
MR. PATTE: No , it was not. At this time, however, I would like
Ito call an Ithaca Realtor, Mr . John Vasse , as a witness .
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright.
SMR, PATTE : As a brief introduction to the Board of Zoning Appeals ;
,
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. members I am sure that most, if not all of you, are familiar with
Mr. Vasse who is a long time Ithaca Realtor . I 've asked him to c4e
;; here and answer a few questions in regard to possible impact that
this proposal would have , in his opinion, on the neighborhood.
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Also I would ask him to comment in terms of his knowledge , of the
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( background and development of this particular neighborhood. I ' d
( like to start off with one question and that is , Mr . Vasse , would
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! you tell us please how you first came in contact with - in your
e; real estate business - with this particular building?
IIJOHN VASSE : I originally sold the building to the Albanese Plumbing
Company a number of years ago , with the thought we might develop it
f
into a residential apartment typw dwelling. However, it wasn' t
' feasible economically and through the past few years Tony Albanese !
1has been attempting to make the - put the building on a profit or
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jlbreak even basis and I 've seen him make some delightful improvements
from what the Clock Company was when I initially sold it to him.
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He has cleaned it up - he ' s put a bright new paint job on it , re-
�Iplaced the roof, etc. and I can' t think that a high type restaurant
operation would be all that detrimental to the neighborhood. I
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! would like to see Mr. Albanese make a success out of this building
, It is a historic site and it is certainly less restricted at this
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I point and I think the restaurant will keep it that way, then it
was when it was a laundry and spilling soot and fumes all over the ;
Ijneighborhood.
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IMR. PATTE: The particular time you are referring to when it was a
4laundry, was when can you tell us that?
jMR. VASSE: Well it was probably a year prior to the sale to Mr.
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`JAlbanese I think it was probably six months to a year - it might
have been closing down.
1IMR. PATTE : To turn to the topic of the nature of this building in
�
!; particular I had a question which compares this piece of property
I
with other pieces of property in the city of Ithaca. Let me start "
.; with a premise or an assumption that is , that this is a commercial !
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ilbuilding and it is surrounded by residences - this is a residential
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area. Mr. Vasse are you familiar with any other situation that is !
'jsimilar to that in the city of Ithaca?
MR. VASSE: Probably the only one tht comes to mind would be the
Villa - at the moment, which does have a three-sided residential
area across the street from it . The only other one , I think, nearY
by, might be Turbachs but that ' s in the Township of Ithaca which i$
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! agricultural and residential areas . {
� MR. PATTE: Is it safe to say sir, that this is a fairly unique
�larea in the City of Ithaca, the way that the residential and the
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commercial have been combined at this address?
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IMR. VASSE : I would say so . It does have a limited function and j
�'g
1use - there ' s no question about it .
IMR. GAINEY: I have a question, Mr. Vasse . You live in a residen- I
If tial neighborhood?
MR. VASSE: Yes , in the Town of Ithaca.
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MR. GAINEY: Town of Ithaca. Are there any restaurants or anything
�Iaround your house?
°
MR. VASSE: Not a thing.
MR. GAINEY: No businesses or anything? '
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,! MR. VASSE: Yes , home occupations .
IMR. GAINEY: Thank you.
1MR. VASSE: Electrician, plumber, photographer, hair dresser , real ':
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Testate . . .
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? MR. PATTE : Sir , in terms of your real estate experience over a
! period of some years , can you give us your opinion as to how this
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! would affect this neighborhood if this proposal went forth?
IMR. VASSE: I think if the restaurant , and knowing Cox' s restauran{
as I do from the Homer area, it is operated as a high-type unit I
that I see , and have been to , I can' t see where it would be a detr�-
l� ment to the neighborhood. However, it ' s all in I think, in the
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management and the operation itself. I can' t say that Mr. Cox cant
come in here and run a perfectly delightful place and sell out in
two years and expect the character of the business to be the same .
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;, This is something I don' t know but on the surface I ' d say Mr. Coxit
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would probably be an asset to the area - the building .
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j' MR. PATTE : So it ' s on the record, Mr. Vasse , could you briefly
( tell us the number of years you have been in the business and the
types of experience , in terms of commercial or residential , that
jyou have?
MR. VASSE : Well probably two-thirds of my business at this point ,
�Iafter thirty years, is mostly commercial business , and probably ono
of the most recent deals we have been involved in has been the
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lHoliday Inn which has just sold on the hill . . . It is commercial
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business .
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MR. PATTE: Are there any further questions for Mr . Vasse? Thank
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you sir. If I could call Mr. Albanese as a witness . Mr. Albanese ]
! you are Anthony Albanese' s son?
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j MR. ALBANESE: My name is Rick Albanese , I reside at 706 N. Cayuga '
Street .
MR. PATTE: And isn' t that a fact that your father had to be out of
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town this evening and has turned over to you the full authority to
act, any representation of him and his building?
II MR. ALBANESE: Yes he has .
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IMR. PATTE : In speaking with Mr. Cox about this development, and ii
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negotiating the terms of any development , let me ask you sir , if
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you and your father have been concerned looking down the road as
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I to what would happen within the development if Mr. Cox were to
; choose to leave or to sell his business?
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MR. ALBANESE : Over the past years we have had very few interested !
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parties looking at the second floor. Noone has been - had a legi- I
timate interest because of the structure of the building. There
are large 12 x 12 pillars about every 10 feet down the entire cent�r
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lof the building which was - which is a main obstacle for about any
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kind of a meeting place, a dance room - it ' s not been practical . !
To Mr. Cox this was an asset to maintain a type of this character
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; and he has shown us a lot of enthusiasm and we hope to get together
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ion this .
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1IMR. PATTE : In specific terms - in terms of the negotiations that
'( have gone on between you and Mr . Cox , has there been an agreement
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lireached between you and him that if this building - if his busines
H
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!! were to be sold, that you maintain a certain amount of control as
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{! to what use the building and the space was put to?
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MR. ALBANESE: Yes there has . We have appreciated in the past yeas ,
coming before the Board and getting variances , and doing so having
a relationship with the community and mostly through my dad' s ef- {
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, forts we have developed a good relationship and we want to continueq
i it and I feel , talking with Mr . Cox, that what is proposed will bel
a
Inothing but an asset and will just help the community out . It will
I
( bring business into the area, make a few jobs , and that, in the
' event that there was a change , I for one , personally, this would
be something for myself and speaking for my father, would not want
(! this to - building to drop back in the condition that it was pur-
` chased in.
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IMR. PATTE: Now if the use changed, if the use changed perhaps to -`
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!cif the thinking of the business owners turned to running a "watering
, hole" or a "bar" has there been a discussion in terms of your con-
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Itrol over the situation where that would arise?
{
� MR. ALBANESE: Yes there has .
IMR. PATTE : Are you prepared to state publicly tonight that you and
{�Mr. Cox have reached an agreement that if the dining facility turnejd
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lout to not be used as a dining facility, you would have the right tp
come in and terminate his lease?
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IMR. ALBANESE: We have reached that agreement .
�IMR. PATTE: Mr. Cox, is that your understanding sir?
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fMR. COX: Yes it is .
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� MR. GAINEY: Has there been a lease signed for the number of years?
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MR. PATTE: No.
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SMR. GAINEY: There is no lease , no standing time period that they
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have committed , . . . ?
(MR. PATTE : There has been serious negotiation and would most likel�
be , the way I understand it now, a ten year lease , a long-term leas
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.! calling for a substantial rental payment . I
ii MR. GAINEY: Go back to the parking that we talked about earlier.
!i If I 'm not mistaken, the garages - the whole length of the back
' border now acting as a buffer between the houses and the business . ;
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MR. PATTE: I think Mr . Albanese would agree that that is correct . !
IMR. GAINEY: Do you plan to tear these down for parking or . . . I
� MR. ALBANESE : They will be taken down.
IMR. PATTE: I think that ' s the very area where neighbors are perhaps
! concerned that the buffer will be gone . However, our proposal is
to build a substantial buffer there mature evergreens , combination
with a fence which I think would provide them with needed protection.
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I think I stated also that the commitment to a parking attendant
would alleviate any loud noise that might come from that area, if
not control it.
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� MR. GAINEY: One question that I have with the parking again - it i I
�lenters and exits on two different streets and, if I 'm not mistaken
;fit ' s spread out over three quarters of the lot , the parking? It' s
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from front all the way down one side, across around the back and I
l� on to the other side?
n takes u two sides of the building.
, MR. PATTE : Right, I think it to e p ,
s
lIMR. GAINEY: I 'm kind of curious how one parking attendnat is goi4
I�Ito handle such a large area when you have two exit ways? If he is
over here (pointing to map) and . . .
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IMR. PATTE : What was anticipated and what has been discussed is
that when you enter the parking lot a parking attendant or atten-
I E
(� dants , we haven' t limited ourself to one , would park your car and
Jhe would also get your car when you get ready to leave . There are
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! most likely times that one person would not be adequate because yo�
may have two and three cars arriving within minutes of each other. !
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( Perhaps at that point it would be necessary to have two attendants !
and I think Mr. Cox and Mr. Albanese are willing to do that . If
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there are no further questions for Mr. Albanese at this time , I
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would like . . .
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;; CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I do have some questions for Mr. Albanese, I was ,
;; saving them until your presentation was done.
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; MR. PATTE: I do have further questions of him but I was going to
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jreserve that for a later time but I think that he is free to answer}
your questions .
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: My questions concern where this fits in terms of
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what is going on in the rest of the building? That is to say, I
think we would be mistaken if we dealt with all of these cases
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'I totally piece meal . So I would like you to do for us , if you can, (
Ilan inventory of what other things are now going on in the building
!
i� including the other one that you are seeking a variance for tonigh
�land how much traffic and parking they account for as they have de- �
11veloped rather than as they were presented to the Board back when I
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ever they got their original variance . Could you do that?
�JMR. ALBANESE : Sure . Going - circling the building from the Adams !
( Street side, our building is in the southeast corner . Next would
The the Clever Hans Bakery. We have noticed that - thanks to a zoni Ing
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I1appeal or a variance, our street was not closed off and Clever Hans
Bakery has plenty of room to park in front of their business .
�ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Now, when that case was presented it was said thajt
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most of their business would be neighborhood people walking there
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and it would generate very few automobiles , has that indeed turned
d�out to be the case? Well , I 'm interested in Mr. Albanese' s answer j
jand then anyone else who wants - later when they are speaking to
(respond to my question, can do the same . Mr. Albanese .
MR. ALBANESE: There are people from the neighborhood that frequent!
(the bakery. There has been, at times , more traffic than possibly
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was anticipated. However, we are talking about twenty - thirty
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minutes at a time as I have seen it . I don' t - I 'm usually not at
i
the building on the weekends . I understand that there is a - at
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times there may be ten - fifteen cars parked in front of the bakery! -
lion
akerylion the Adams Street side.
(CHAIRMAN MARTIN: And that ' s on-street parking. Does the Bakery j
. have any of your thirty-nine spaces?
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�IMR. ALBANESE: Yes they do .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: How many?
MR. ALBANESE: Two . j
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i CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Two . Okay, do you want to continue on around?
MR. ALBANESE: The next would be the Circuit Tree - an electronics '
shop. They are on the Dey Street side. Their traffic is , as I 'vej
seen it , is nil . The people that come are there for minutes - two '
or three minutes and they are gone - and they are hardly noticed I
i! at all . The same with the . . .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: How many spaces do they have allocated?
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'IMR. ALBANESE: Two .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Any how many, to go back to the Albanese occupan
Ijcy, how many do you have?
!
j! MR. ALBANESE: We have four.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Four. Okay. j
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MR. ALBANESE: When I first answered the question about how many
jspaces I mentioned eleven. That' s not correct. That ' s thirteen.
IThe previous question.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay.
MR. ALBANESE: The next would be an advertising company, The Ad
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! People. They have two spaces .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay, and the traffic they generate as you see i ?
IMR. ALBANESE: Very little . And that would be that ' s the extent
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lof the tenants.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay. And so - and all of that is on the first
floor right?
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jMR. ALBANESE: That is correct .
( CHAIRMAN MARTIN: And so now with the proposal this evening you
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take us up on the second floor . . . I
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' MR. ALBANESE: Which would be the Friends of the Library Book Clubj
and those people we hardly ever see them.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Lot ' s of traffic at one time of the year - at th6ir
!! sale season?
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11MR. ALBANESE : In October they have their annual sale and it goes
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; for ten days and they have a peak period of two to three days wherl
there is considerable amount of traffic .
�
I` MR. GAINEY: Didn' t you leave a tenant out?
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MR. ALBANESE: Excuse me? I
MR. GAINEY: Didn' t you leave a tenant out? i
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: You've got one that you are putting a variance
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1 before us for this evening.
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1 MR. ALBANESE: Proposal . That ' s right. That would be the Pet Food
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�; Store - JaBe Mills .
( CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright, would you just throw that in now so we
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know how . . .
"
! MR. ALBANESE : At the present time they have one parking space and !
1 their traffic is two to three cars a day.
IICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Now with the restaurant and the Pet Food, will
you have your building pretty well rented up or are you going to hove
{
some more surprises for us in future months?
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I MR. ALBANESE : That ' s very hard to say. I would not like to take
the Board' s time again but I would not anticipate anything in the
i
near future - next few years , if this . . .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay, there aren' t any parking spaces in reservej -
�lyou served them all up tonight , right?
MR. ALBANESE: That is correct, yes .
MR. GAINEY: Did he just change this from eleven to thirteen but
"
j I only show eleven spaces being used. Four - two - two - two and
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one .
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j� MR. ALBANESE: I added it a couple , two , three times . I came up
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with thirteen. Eleven.
MR. PATTE: I think eleven it does stand corrected. Isntt that
I
correct? j
( MR. ALBANESE : You think eleven is correct? Because that is what
i1had - we don' t have. . . I
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Eleven fits what you have just given us as you rq.n
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! down them unless the j
111MR. ALBANESE : I added wrong. Then eleven stands , does that satis ' y
I everybody?
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IiMR. HOARD : Is Sawtooth Builders still in there?
I, MR. ALBANESE : Yes they are . I
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' CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright, so we 've got - alright , Sawtooth. Do
�s
they have spaces? Traffic?
MR. ALBANESE: I didn' t mention Sawtooth?
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: No , you didn' t.
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MR. ALBANESE : They have two spaces .
! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Back to thirteen. Alright.
�e —
IMR. ALBANESE: Back to thirteen, I thought it was correct. The
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` amount of traffic that they create would be a car or two a day.
! They have someone stop and make some things and leave .
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iICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay. All of those commercial tenants are day
time operations?
MR. ALBANESE: That is correct.
A
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: So it ' s anticipated that their parking spaces wi11
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not be used in the evening - they will be used during the lunch
I
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�Iservice of this restaurant but not the dinner.
MR. ALBANESE : That is correct - that is right .
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�! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay.
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MR. PATTE: Is there a loading area on one side of the building
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fwh-ich is used during the day?
MR. ALBANESE: On the Adams Street side or on the Auburn Street side
i
there is . j
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1+ MR. PATTE: And is that used at all after 5 : 00?
E, s
i�MR. ALBANESE : No it' s not . f
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(II MR. PATTE: Would that accommodate cars comfortably?
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MR. ALBANESE: Three or four cars could conceivably fit in that ar�a .
IMR. PATTE: And have you been advised by your architect , Mr . Egnerj
ithatthat is the case that four cars would fit in there?
i
I! MR. ALBANESE : Yes he has advised us of that possibility. j,
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M. PATTE: And that would be four additional spaces on top of
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Ithirty-nine which would make it forty-three, i's that correct?
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,SMR. ALBANESE: That is correct . i
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ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there other questions from members of the j
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Board for Mr. Albanese?
MR. GAINEY: Is the Bakery the only one that is open on Sunday?
ItMR. ALBANESE: Yes it is .
11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Further questions? Okay, I think that is all we
have for you at this point .
MR. PATTE: I 'd like to reserve the right to recall Mr. Albanese
Eon one matter but I would like to , at this time call Mr . Dick
e
( Patterson.
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s' CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright, call Mr. Dick Patterson.
MR. PATTE: Would you state your name and address and give the
jgeneral location of your place of residence please?
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MR. PATTERSON: I 'm Dick Patterson, 107 W. Jay Street and it ' s j
about a block away from the Calendar Clock Works . !
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: May I interject? Mr . Patterson, we have a letter
on this case from you - I ' d just as soon not have to read your words
alto you and to the audience so I would hope that in your testimony ;
you could say anything of importance that you have said to us in
your letter.
IMR. PATTE: And could you give the number of years you've resided
I I� ?at that residence .
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SMR. PATTERSON: I 've lived there for three years now.
�MR. PATTE: And are you familiar with the commercial development in
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the Albanese building?
�MR. PATTERSON: Yes I am.
MR. PATTE: And have you recently had occasion to chat with Mr.
Albanese about the commercial development in general and this pro-
posal
in particular?
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IMR. PATTERSON: I spoke with Rick today for a couple of minutes but!
Mother than that we haven' t gone into detail .
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IMR. PATTE : Did you sir take it upon yourself to inquire as to trafl-
fic patterns in your neighborhood?
, MR. PATTERSON: Yes I did. This morning I stayed at the corner of
j�Dey and Adams Street about five minutes and approximately forty carjs
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�1passed.
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MR. PATTE : And what time was that?
!! MR. PATTERSON: That was at 8 : 30 .
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IMR. PATTE: Of what nature was the traffic? Le me rephrase that
I
for you. Was that traffic passing through or was it neighborhood i
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traffic , can you characterize it?
SMR. PATTERSON: That was , I would say it was traffic passing throuih -
lit was traffic on Dey Street alone . i
MR. PATTE: Can you say whether children were present during those )
hours on the street?
11
IMR. PATTERSON: Yes that ' s the time that most elementary children I
go to school .
ed
( MR. PATTE: And you said, sir , how many cars pass/by you in how
i
long a time period?
IMR. PATTERSON: Forty cars in a little under five minutes .
MR. GAINEY: Of what value is this? You are talking 8 : 30 in the
morning. The business is going to be open from 6 : 00 until noon?
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MR. PATTE: If I could draw a conclusion . . .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Please do .
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MR. PATTE : One of the concerns I think and rightly so , is that
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I� children will be exposed to danger in the neighborhood.
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iCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Right .
MR. PATTE: Mr . Patterson has given us certain facts which indicate
that traffic is at a rather high - it ' s at a forty car volume for
' five minute period at 8 : 30 when children are on the street, presum
ably walking to school I think it is safe to say. Our feeling is w
that if you take forty cars and put them into the parking lot at
the Albanese building and they are going to attend Mr. Cox' s estab-j
I lishment , that they would - number one , be coming on a staggered
basis , that they would be coming over a several hour period and thalt
it would probably not be forty cars - it might be more like twenty
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( five or thirty cars that would come. We are simply drawing a com
�lparison, showing that the danger the kids are now exposed to in thq
!! morning is perhaps greater than what they would be exposed to from
, this particular building and it is used as a restaurant. In addition
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1i to that we wanted to point out that reservations at this restaurant
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ljwill be required - it is quite unlikely, given the style and nature
ijof running this establishment , that you are going to have a deluge !
of thirty or forty cars in a five minute period which is the case, )
a ,
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in fact , at 8 : 30 in the morning. So we are simply saying that thele
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are risks in that neighborhood now that should be pointed out and
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that we are not , we feel , substantially contributing to any danger)
to children or others during the hours of operation of this res- i
taurant. Mr . Patterson, a further question. Do you have children
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sir?
MR. PATTERSON: Yes , I have two , ages four and two .
MR. PATTE: And would you just express your general feeling or coni
i
cern in terms of traffic?
MR. PATTERSON: Well right now we live next to a gas station and
�I across from a Gun and Tackle Shop and I don' t think that the res- I
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i taurant would be any added hazard than is in there now.
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MR. PATTE: And did you sir submit a letter to the Board of Zoning;
i' Appeals basically testifying to these facts that you related to us�,
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MR. PATTERSON: Yes .
i! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Mr. Patterson there is one thing in that letter
you've not alluded to in your testimony and that is your letter
'i
1 says that you are indirectly involved in this leasing. Could you
help us to understand how that is?
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MR. PATTERSON: Well , the lease is being written through Patterson
Real Estate - although I have no personal gain, neither being an
owner of Patterson Real Estate or the leasing agent.
!i CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay. You did feel obliged to mention it in the!
letter and so we now have it here .
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MR. PATTERSON: Yes . And I would hasten to add that they are the
! leasing agent , they are not drawing the terms of the least itself. ;
!i That is a completely independent negotiation. Patterson is taking;
�! no direct part in that.
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jMR. PATTE : Any further questions for Mr. Patterson? Thank you sit .
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liCall Mr. Anton Egner please. Would you state your name , occupantion
jand general relationship to this project sir?
ANTON EGNER: My name is Anton Egner , I 'm an architect, city plann r
I and again I 've been with this project, not this particular one but ,
even previous to Mr . Albanese we tried for another - we worked wits
la client before Mr. Patterson or Mr. Albanese owned the building i�
an atempt to put housing in this building and that did not pass an4
therefore that particular client did not buy the facility. Mr.
�lAlbanese then bought it , asked us to try again on the basis that h�
( might be able to put it together, being a contractor . He again di4
((� not. I am just giving you the history of how long I 've worked with
thisarticular building. In other various capacities along with
II P P ,
'Idoing a drawing for one client or another of Mr. Albanese we 've ,
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Viand they may have come in front of your Board at one time with my
name or so on. In a way I have a strong feeling about , as many
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; others do , about the benefits of maintaining a building such as
this . I also have a strong feeling about the kind of compatible
I
facilities that ought to be put into a building such as this . I
, was approached by Mr. Cox to outline some potential ideas of how
a restaurant might fit in this building . We had to merge this with
Ithe already present checkerboard pattern of leasing that Mr . Al-
i
fbanese has done , so at one point there was a proposal of having a
i
restaurant on two floors and the essence of what was submitted to
the Planning Board indicated the scope of a two floor scheme . At j
that time we already had the one floor scheme also , which represent
ted the scope and the size and the number of people based upon thei
� I
square footage allowance . We have done no specific design because
the intention was to get really the feeling of the community and
the feeling of the Planning and Zoning Boards in the kind of thing!
that was being proposed. That is about where we are . If you want!
me to comment on�I my thinking on how this might
go in design or som�-
Ij thing, I will .
' I
4� I
fe
42
�IMR. PATTE: A follow up question - you say that you have not de-
veloped specific plans or gotten into the details of what this
operation is going to look like both inside and out - you have simH,
i
ply done a schematic drawing - with that given however, can you
comment and give your opinion on the overall appearance that this
building will take , based on what you now know?
i
MR. EGNER: Yes . Let ' s basically start from the inside . You men- 1
tioned one of the potential attributes of the building to a client !
such as Mr. Cox, are the almost rustic nature of the interior . Ev�n
the fact that the floor levels don' t line up - aren' t level so to
i
speak, do not hinder its use for this kind of a restaurant . In
j fact the large beams and the braces and the bolts and the - holdin�
of this building together are apparent - will not hinder the ap-
i
Ipearance of this kind of restaurant. In fact, these kind of thing
would be a benefit to the kind of rustic nature that he is looking ;
at - even to the potential of more decoration and even to the ex-
tent of perhaps having one or two Ithaca calendar clocks as part o
the decor. Now, as I said, we don' t have any detail , we have
looked at the potential of an entrance coming in from Adams Street
just to the west of the Albanese Plumbing Establishment which Al-
banese now is using for miscellaneous storage. We would like to - '
you know, my mental picture of this is a very nice entrance to a
I
stairwell . Now if we have to meet the codes - once we come off the
�ifirst floor level we have to run a stair up this - two sets of stairs
complete - fire enclosed and fire resistant construction of both j
ends of this three story wing. We also - we don' t have to have a
1passenger elevator but for the particular type of facility and the
i
level of restaurant that Mr. Cox is looking at - we 've already
i
' called in an elevator person to get the cost and the potential of
I
putting a hydraulic elevator in the building. The existing elevatgr
!iis a freight elevator - this would have to be refurbished, even to
ii
The continued as use for a freight elevator for the kitchen area as
you saw it. Generally from that aspect of it , the interior would
it
it
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" have - would maintain the kind of look that a cleaned up kind of
j �
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;; let ' s say, warehouse , factory, restaurant would have and I think you
Ican all conjure your own image of that kind of rustic nature of the
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�Ifacility. There is a court yard in the building which at one time
llor another with all the proposals that we have been involved in, I
have always suggested that the court yard be cleaned up and the
trees and shrubbery be planted in this . I have suggested again at !
i
this time and as you come in the entrance that you are able to see !
into the court yard. I think that this potential exists . And also
i
look down at it from the second floor and from the lounge area. NOw
the exterior is another thing and the attempt at parking - we could
potentially even increase the amount of parking. I don' t think, ar d
I didn' t suggest it - and I didn' t recommend it that we took the
i
! entrance off Adams Street for the parking where it is now, I can' t )
II
i tell you that I 'd have the specific final answer but I - we could
have parked a couple more cars at the location of the east entranc�
i
! where there is a wide potential planting area. Also on the east
side of the building by the Albanese Plumbing we are suggesting, f
without any detail at this time that that remain as an open space
with planting and perhaps the plaza to get you to whichever entrance
1wherever we might locate the entrance - either on Adams Street or
� on the parking lot side and it may be on both sides because we could
have access to the same stairwell from the same location. So I 'm
I
just conjuring up some of the things that I 've thought about . Thel,
lother potential is that the whole , not facade , but the whole side f
I
� of Adams Street it self - if it is going to be maintained as an
I
l� open street, could become an attractive - almost drive with seriesjof
low-level lighting standards to slmost have a soft glow on the front
of the building at all hours of the night. It could be developed
to a great extent . The other aspect that was mentioned here beford
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liwas the kind of buffering that could happen in each side of the
I
11property there is room for evergreen plus fence or miscellaneous
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I� kinds of evergreen shrubbery or even trees , and I would recommend
!( evergreen just because of the acoustical value and the absorbency
i
of it as well as the light absorbency of it for the year round.
's
These are just thoughts that I have had and I have not been commisfi
1sioned to go any further than the diagramatic drawings that you have
Ijseen which relates specifically to how many people can I fit in an
1
area so big based upon what a good restaurant service might accom
modate .
i
IMR. PATTE: Sir is it safe to say that there is a good deal of
�ilandscaping on the exterior that you were talking about when you shy
, developing the facade, developing the parking lot area and all of
those things you mentioned.
I; MR. EGNER: Yes .
�! MR. PATTE: And, in your opinion, would that be an improvement in
Il the appearance compared to what is there now?
MR. EGNER: Absolutely.
i
;SMR. PATTE : Are there further questions for Mr . Egner?
fMR. WILCOX: Yes , what about offices - did you consider offices?
I
MR. EGNER: Well you asked the question - again, having been in-
volved with this particular building, my recommendation to Tony a
' while back, and my recommendation to Mr . Cox at the time that I was
putting these two potentials to Wther, even though they have no
clients for office space at this time , except maybe Rick, was that;
the third floor could accommodate offices quite easily. And the
fact , that we have to at this point - at this junction - put in two
complete stairwells to the third floor plus if they consider the
(� elevator which would also then run to the third floor, the rentabit
�II lity of that third floor as office space would be very much enhanced
i
I and it would be the kind of office space that probably could
(' benefit from the restaurant , from the other kind of facilities that
I are there . That' s a potential , now I can' t tell you where they . . i.
I� MR. WILCOX: What about the second floor itself, wouldn' t that mak'
i! good offices?
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4
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1MR. EGNER: The second floor would probably make good offices , too !
I�
I don' t know whether there is that much potential for offices in
P
;; that area. I think you have to look at that and I think you have
I�11,1to look at the potential investment of $30 ,000 . for an elevator;
about $40 , 000 . between the two stairs , $20, 000 apiece for the two
i
istairs - what you could return. I don' t know anything about that
the leasing arrangements , etc . , okay?
i
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Any further questions from members of the Board? :!,
Alright , if I 've counted right, Mr . Patte, those are your four with
nesses and you are ready to . . .
SMR. PATTE : I wanted to recall Mr . Albanese or - Mr. Rick Albanese ; . .
ii
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright . And then you will pull things together ;
for us?
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MR. PATTE : That is correct sir . Mr. Albanese I asked you if you
had had occasion to , in the past week, to become familiar with
neighborhood sentiment and opinion in regard to this proposal?
�iMR. ALBANESE : Yes I have.
i
I, MR. PATTE : Can you tell us by what means you have become so familiar .?
IIMR. ALBANESE: I have, along with Mr. Cox, gone through the neigh- j
�iborhood on those blocks adjacent to the building. A couple of blocks
of Adams or Dey Street , Auburn Street , Franklin, Short , Jay - in
other words those blocks directly around the building.
SMR. PATTE: Is it generally a two block radius around the building
IMR. ALBANESE: That ' s approximately it .
i
MR. PATTE : And you went out to knock on doors , is that correct?
MR. ALBANESE : That is correct .
(I
SMR. PATTE: And on how many occasions approximately?
i
IMR. ALBANESE: Oh, the past four or five days . i
IMR. PATTE: And did you go out sometimes alone and sometimes with i
Mr . Cox?
I
I MR. ALBANESE : Yes , the first time I went out alone .
I
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- 46 -
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,i MR. PATTE : Could you tell us the results of your efforts the first
'Mime - let me start with a prior question. Can you tell us if you ,
I
, carried with you a petition with specific wording and I refer to
the petition itself saying "We the undersigned support in principal
the concept of a first class family restaurant at 102 Adams Street
Ithaca. " Is that the petition that you carried?
MR. ALBANESE: Yes it is .
MR. PATTE : And can you tell us the results of the first evenings
, petitioning and the results?
i
f MR. ALBANESE : The first night I went out , was a couple of nights
;I after the Planning Board hearing and I wanted to get a feel from
f
the people - get an idea on how they felt . It was my belief that
( went if I went to ten houses and I got eight or nine people that ;
I
were against - that felt that the idea of a restaurant was a poor j
idea and they did not want it in their neighborhood, that this is fhe
i
route I would follow - I would respect their feelings on it .
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MR. PATTE: And is that the feeling that you found eight or ten
r
people against your proposal?
i
� MR. ALBANESE : No , I got eight signatures out of about nine or ten ;
�I houses that I went to .
MR. PATTE: And those were signatures indicating support?
IMR. ALBANESE: Yes they were .
11 MR. PATTE And that was on this petition which I have read?
it
MR. ALBANESE: Yes it
MR. PATTE: Alright, can you follow that up with, a general discussion
I
of the subsequent petitioning which you did - give us the results
I� and the general ratio of supporters that you found for this petition?
i �
MR. ALBANESE: I felt it was a good idea that not only I go out
p but that if a new person - let ' s say he is going to come into the
l
i` community and we 'll say -- I 'm talking about Bill , he ' s not a
i
native Ithacan but he ' s from Homer - surrounding area, that if
people, you know, saw me and looked at Bill - and said, okay, do Zi
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!I want this guy in the neighborhood or don' t I? Let ' s talk and see
f
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how they feel . Without going too much further - over the next
�i �
�ithree or four days we went out to probably forty to fifty homes an�
1� we acquired forty-eight signatures in the area of people that said
IE i
I, that they would support the idea of a first class restaurant . We
0
( talked with them, they had questions . . .
MR. PATTE: Were there concerns expressed with the proposal and
what were they?
Ii MR. ALBANESE : Well , their concerns were with the questions that w�re
i
brought up before on parking - we explained to them that we felt j
i
that we had enough parking and that on noise that we could make
accommodations to not increase significantly the noise level in tho
I' community and - those are probably the two big concerns of the peo�le ,
IMR. PATTE: And were those concerns or questions , in our opinion, !
� a y �
I
generally answered when you took the time to explain them?
IMR. ALBANESE: I felt the people were reasonably satisfied and the*
I
had faith in me and I respect that.
MR. PATTE: Can you give us an idea how much time you might have
I
` spent in a household talking to the people?
iMR. ALBANESE : It averaged about ten - fifteen minutes , we talked
iwith each family.
iMR. PATTE: And the ratio of success of signers that you enlisted
I
for this petition when you asked, was what , about?
i
MR. ALBANESE: About 900 - about nine of the ten homes , the people :;
that we talked to agreed to sign the petition.
i
IMR. PATTE : And is that petition the one I am now holding in my
i
hand?
i
MR. ALBANESE: Yes it is .
i
IMR. PATTE : And I ' d like to turn over to you, Mr. Chairman.
i
IMR. GAINEY: Of all these households that you vistied, do you have ;
lI i
a rough idea how many are the actual home owners? - how many are
renters?
IiMR. ALBANESE : I assume most of the people - most of them are home !
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f: !
- 48 -
owners . I couldn' t say more than that Joe, I have no idea.
i
MR. PATTE : Are you familiar with the neighborhood to know that
I; I
�? there are many home owners there?
!9
MR. ALBANESE: Most of them are home owners . i
i
MR. PATTE: And can you give us an idea of the cross section of
f
people you talked to? I
MR. ALBANESE : There were all age groups that signed the petition
Iand just a pretty good cross section. It didn' t matter - in other
words , it' s not the people of a certain age group who are against
i it, or a certain age group who are for it ; it ' s young and old - itl
didn' t matter too much where they were living.
MR. PATTE : Was there any distinguishing factor in terms of long
i j
time residents being opposed to this?
i�
I MR. ALBANESE: Not really, although the long time residents did sem
to be maybe a little more in favor it ' s a difficult thing but th
long time residents were not opposed to it .
MR. PATTE : Thank you Mr. Chairman.
I�
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright are you ready now to pull things togetheO
! MR. PATTE : Yes sir . I appreciate the chance to sum up and I ' ll
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try to do it effectually and efficiently.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: And briefly.
i
MR. PATTE: And briefly. I ' ll start again where I believe we - I
i raised my first question and that' s that it ' s my understanding
!
from tonight ' s meeting that Mr . Albanese . . .
i
e
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: You need not establish again that it can' t be i
I
residents up there . Alright , we were talking about some kind of
use which is not permitted by R- 3 but the Board is quite concerned!
��! with the compatibility of that use with the neighborhood.
i i
I MR. PATTE: Yes . I think the issue boils down to just that and
ii 'you can probably sub-divide that into seven or eight different sub
r
categories and I think right at the top of the list there is the
i
parking issue. We have come forward with, I think, fairly convin-
r
cing proof that there are at least forty-three parking spaces
jII f
there , that the main use in this building will be 6 : 00 to 10 : 00
E� i
!s
e
jf
€t !
- 49 -
Illo' clock, let ' s say roughly and that those hours fall after the day
':ytime use, therefore we feel that we have shown you that we have
i
;, forty-three parking spaces to be used solely by the restaurant and !
;I
f its employees in the evening. So that , again, that ' s a 3 . 5 ratio . !
( We 've provided a parking space for approximately every 3. 5 seats j
I !
! inside , given 150 people total capacity inside . How often it would
lbe filled up to one hundred fifty seats is a matter of conjecture
! but it would probably, I think we could safely assume , not be real
A j
loften and that there would be , in fact, many times extra spaces I
I I
` outside were not being used. The parking lot attendant , I think,
! is a step that goes a long way toward showing you the good faith o
Mr. Albanese and Mr. Cox. I 'm not sure how many people would come !
i
! forward and make that sort of public commitment to control their I
parking area and make an effort to deal with a problem, it could goIt
Ito be a sticky problem. I think that they are ready to do that, and
3
they are ready to put more than one attendant out there if necessa�y.
j( In termsof traffic flow itself, I , as an individual , was impressed ;
l; ,
; with what Mr . Patterson told us . That there are times when there ils
la flow of traffic that is considerable through that area and you halve
� a restaurant which is not going to generate flow-through traffic ,
! it' s traffic coming at a fairly leisurely pace , somebody has a reser-
!
ivation in a nice restaurant , they go in, they spend a couple of hours
and they quietly leave. I think that the emphasis should be on the!
i
(quiet and should be on the leisurely pace because that is the type
lof place that is being established here - a quality restaurant thatj'
f!is going to attract people out for an evening, in a respectable
{1quiet sort of way. I don' t feel that the noise issue is a real issue
i
Ithat we have not answered. I think that there is going to be a
�Iminimum amount of noise generated. This is not a watering hole ,
l
', this is not a place where noisy entertainment is going to occur . Ij
think a minimum amount of noise will be present , I don' t think it
i
Hwill bother neighbors at all . I think you can go back to a previou,6
Iltime when noise in this area did bother neighbors and that ' s the
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Fold Petrillose Laundry which, in the summer time , had its windows 11
,!wide open and there was noisy machinery going
and there were com-
I, j
;;plaints too , probably rightly so but I think if we compare that with
I
this ., we are on a much, much lower noise scale . Safety of children
i
is a concern for all of us . I think that Mr . Patterson again made
I� the point that children are exposed down there to a danger from j
traffic , I 'm not sure what the accident rate is down there but I
don' t think it' s increased by the type of traffic that is going to �
Ibe generated by this restaurant . In addition to that we had conce�n
for the playground area across the street . We are eliminating the ;
entrance to the parking lot directly across Adams Street from the
i
play ground area. I think that that is a convenient access way toj
! the parking spot but we are again making a concession, we are_ sayiJIg,
I
let' s not take a chance, let ' s move the area over on to the - I
guess it ' s the Auburn Street side and away from the play ground area.
fII don' t think, in regard to the noise and I mention the buffer, again
1we publicly committed ourselves to putting a substantial buffer in !
there that would more than adequately meet the buffer that is now
i
provided by the garage there and it does provide a buffer of sorts .
But I think we are 'saying - we are committing ourselves to providing
i
at least as adequate a buffer as that is and all the way around thq
property bounds wherever it may affect the neighborhood. In terms
lof real estate values in the neighborhood. I think that ' s a concern
too. I think that Mr . Vasse ' s testimony indicated that the - I
i
think, as I recall in his words , is that it would not be a detriment ,
i
( I think that it' s a safe assumption that this is not going to have
an adverse affect on property values down there , that in fact, you ;
are going to enhance the appearance of a building down there that
started six years ago when Mr. Albanese moved in, it was in a very
I
poor state of affairs and it has gradually increased and improved
hand now we 've got Mr . Albanese in a position where he is ready to
( make the major commitment that probably, if this building is going
� to go forward, must occur and that is , a substantial tenant on a
i
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{! - Sl - 1
ii
long term basis with substantial investment to the tune of $110 , OOQ
!y I
i
� or $120 , 000 from each of these gentlemen who came before you tonig�t
�i
!' And I think that with that substantial investment goes a lot of
( responsibility and I think that these two gentlemen are willing to `
�lbend over backwards to meet that responsibility. You've got a
` building which - overall is going to be enhanced and I think Mr.
lEgner ' s opinion backs that up that there is a great deal of poten- 1
I
tial there and that that potential has been studied and that these !
( people can come forward and put the plan into action, not just tale
about it. Finally, I think, is another crux in this whole issue a�d
i
' that is what does the neighborhood think? Now I think we are goin
to hear some things about what the neighborhood thinks , tonight , b t
I
g
I hope you remember what Mr. Albanese told you, what Mr. Albanese
I can show you tonight and that is forty-eight (48) signatures - I
+ think he said that they came from within a two block area in the
i
immediate vicinity of his building, Mr. Cox and he took that peti*
tion and made a considerable effort to talk to people , took the ti e
i
to listen to their concerns and I think basically reason with themf
l! that this is a proposal that they can live with and, in fact , are I
!t going to be proud of. It could even come to the point where this
is the focal point of the neighborhood . After all you've got a
lbuilding there that sits in the middle of the area and it' s begging
'I I
for development of a proper nature . Obviously it' s a situation
that - is a unique situation in that it ' s a commercial building
ii surrounded by residences . I think that ' s unique I think Mr. Vase
I
said that too so the question is where do we go from here . I ' d lie
4 to leave you with the thought that we can do positive things in th�t
area and that the neighborhood basically, the immediate neighborhopd,
�jlikes that approach. Mr. Albanese has dealt in good faith for sev}i
feral years -- that he is going to deal in good faith now and the
t
11I people are listening and forty-eight people in that immediate areai -
�! 90o according to his testimony - 900 of the people said okay Mr .
!
Albanese we are listening, we support your concept. Thank you.
it
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it
°; CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Any questions for Mr . Patte? I see none from th+
=;i Board. You are finished?
rMR. PATTE: I 'm free to answer any questions . f
�ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: I don' t see any questions , you have been very
� I
thorough . If there are questions raised by others present then I
will ask you to come back and respond to them. Let me ask if them
is anyone else here tonight who would like to speak in favor of
this requested variance before I invite those who wish to speak in
i
opposition. You' d like to speak in favor, sir? Would you come
] forward? j
JOHN SCHMIDT: I appreciate your asking for favorable responses i
i
first , I have another commitment I 'd like to get out of here . I 'm
j I
lJohn Schmidt, I live at 211 Auburn Street within a block of the
i
; laundry. I 've resided within one block of the laundry since I cam$
I !
to the city in 1946 - that ' s thirty-two years ago . I 'd like to ,
j� first of all , correct a couple of statements I heard tonight . Ones
�Iwas by Mr. Vasse that we were bothered with soot and films down thdre .
We were , definitely back in the days when the laundry was operated
Eby Mr. Van Lent and I don' t know just when the conversion was made !
that elimianted this but it has been quite a few years . Maybe Pau]
,lPetrillose can straighten out on it but it has been quite a while
back, I know that. It was a real problem and we put up with it fo
a number of years and raised a lot of fuss and it was corrected.
! The other statement was made here that the laundry was noisy when
iPetrillose operated it the windows were open at night . I don' t
s
i
recall that that was the case . It may have been but I don' t thinkil
that was the case, really. I 'm as concerned as anyone here about
i �
this becoming a bar and a noisy place . I have watched the progress]
that Albanese' s have made with the building, they've put consider
Ijable money and effort into it . For one item they've replaced a lob
o
, of windows which wre again broken out and they have since replaced
i
Ithose again. I think their concern for
i
upgrading the building is I
; genuine and I am wholly in support of it. I know they have a size
fable commitment and they need to get a return on this building to
I!
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to maintain it this way and I am concerned that if they don' t it
4 might pass on to other hands who are not as concerned or might just
ii
fall into disrepair . As I say, I am concerned about noise in the
I
area. I 'd like to say that if it is operated as tye type of operaF
i
j tion I envision it , it will be far less problem than the play ground
i
that is across the street from my house. That is a real nuisance
I� nights and days too . As far as the parking area is concerned, I am
not familiar with the statistics , I 'm not here to get into any I
i
�i technicalities between Mr. Albanese and his agent and the Board of
it
Zoning Appeals . Those things can be straightened out . I would lie
to endorse the establishment of a restaurant here . I think that t�e
� Albaneses will act in good faith and if they don' t , I ' ll be the fist
I !
i` one to raise a fuss about noise or whatever problems arise . Thank!
li I I
you.
I! i
I'
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there any questions for Mr. Schmidt? Thank
i
it you.
VOICE FROM THE AUDIENCE : One question for Mr. Schmidt . You said
�i that there are a lot of kids that play in the playground at night? �
I
I MR. SCHMIDT : That is correct. I didn' t say a lot but there are j
I kids in thatplay ground at night up to midnight half a dozen kid
i
Imany nights in the summer time .
VOICE: Do you think that it would be a hazard for these additional
cars to be coming down to the restaurant at this time of night?
MR. SCHMIDT : Well in the first place the park is supposed to be
closed at 10 : 00 o ' clock and I don' t know that these kids are not
running in and out of the park into the street, I don' t think it
I i
would be any more of a hazard than it would be any other time of
day. There was another statement here about traffic on the street;
and I want to verify that there is considerable traffic on Auburn
` Street and much more on Dey Street since the advent of Route 13 and
i�
!) the location of the high school where it is at the present time, WO
i
have cars on Auburn Street , I would say on an average of one a I
i�
E
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I
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f
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54
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liminute at least all day long and on Dey Street quite more than thaf
,�
band we have , especially in the summer time, we have sixty kids i
practicing football and baseball and this type of thing in the parr,
,1we haven' t had a real problem there yet, I don' t foresee that the
i
amount of difference in the traffic going to this restaurant would !
create a real problem. Have I answered your question?
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay. Things are going to get more complicated
r
land lengthy than they already are I think if we start ending up with
i
lots of cross exchanges so I would ask if the Board has any more j
kI
questions for Mr. Schmidt . And then I would leave others to have
opportunity to make whatever points they want to make at their own
Iturn. Does the Board have any more questions for Mr. Schmidt?
f
iIThank you Mr. Schmidt. Now, is there anyone else who would like toj
f I
lrspeak in favor of the requested variance? Let me , before I then
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invite those who wish to speak in opposition read a letter which,
,! although not clear in its ultimate recommendation, I think has a
I favorable tinge to it. The letter is from the chairman of the
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! Ithaca Landmarks Preservation Commission, Mr . Ian Stewart. It reads
slas follows :
j "Mr. Peter Martin, Chairman
3
Zoning Board of Appeals
608 E. Seneca Street i
!Ithaca, New York 14850
iII i
Dear Mr . Martin:
"I am writing in regard to the proposal to permit a restaurant as aj
new use in the old Ithaca Calendar Clock Factory. It is not my
! intention to comment on the specific issues pending before the Zonlpg
Board or upon the more general issue of neighborhood impact. These
are properly within the exclusive purview of your Board and the
Common Council .
1
I"As Chairman of the Ithaca Landmarks Preservation Commission, how-
ever, I should like to comment on the very positive activity invol-
ving this building over the last year and one half. As you are
aware , this building has been formally designated as a local land-
mark. Working within the constraints this implies , the present ownr,
�Mr. Albanese, has cooperatively and sensitively begun to restore this
building and adapt it for present day use . A few short years ago
this was a derelict structure , an eyesore to the neighborhood, and
! a likely candidate for demolition. Its recent transformation is a
very positive accomplishment and because of its renewed appearance
and increased tax revenues , one in which the entire community share .
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It is not easy to balance community benefit against neighborhood
; impact but it is my hope that the Zoning Board will consider the 1
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!; above facts along with the evidence and opinion it traditionally I
ilgathers . My purpose is not to seek to sway opinion to one side or
! the other, but only to insure that the likely debate is as informed
las possible . j
;j
�i "Thank you for your consideration.
"Sincerely yours ,
/s/ Ian R. Stewart (4
!1I I
11Ian R. Stewart"
ICHAIRMAN
MARTIN: Alright , now let me invite all those who would I
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Rlike to speak in opposition to the requested variance do so . Sir,
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would you come forward?
ROBERT BOOTHROYD : Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, my name is
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l� Robert Boothroyd and I live at 807 N. Cayuga Street and amongst other
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ithings I am one of the ten members of the Common Council of theCit
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4articular
lof Ithaca. Now as an indication of the concern that I have in thil
issue , many of you know that I happen to be a rabid
! Cornell fan and there happens to be a rather important game tonight
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�Ibut I felt it was more important to be here. Now I would like to
compliment the Albanese ' s for the wonderful job that they have don4
! in being a good neighbor and restoring that building down there .
I think it ' s super and I also would like to compliment Mr . Cox, an
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especially his father because I have had some of the most deliciou�
plobster I 've ever had in my life at your restaurant in Homer but I
I you y can
lam sure that put in a wonderful restaurant and I am sure
that you can run it well , but that ' s where my concern comes in. I
( would like to just reiterate a little bit of history that you may I
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Jor may not be aware of. I 'm sure you are - and I am going into my
( sixty year as a public official and if anything has been hammered
home to to me as a representative of, not only the Fall Creek area, 1
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but the City of Ithaca it is that the residents of the City of Ith�ca
l have an abiding concern that the residential areas remain just that .
it I would point out to you that one of the concerns of Council as
, brought to the members of Council through the people of the City of
Ii Ithaca was to revise the zoning code and toughen it to that end. I
'1 We finally provided the prosecutor ' s office as Mr. Hines will be
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j� glad to testify, with the proper funds to enforce it. We have pro
iivided the Building Commissioner with the proper people to do the
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things that should be done . The thrust and intent of all of this �s
that we want residential neighborhoods to stay residential . You j
can argue that you have a wonderful restaurant, you can argue that {
, it won' t be an impact on the neighborhood but the fact is that it � s
non-conforming and it does not fit in with the zoning laws or the
intent of the Common Council of the City of Ithaca.
!
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there any questions for Mr . Boothroyd? Do
you have anything to add particularly about the impact of this prof
posed use on that neighborhood. . . Concededly the Board had decide
in the past that there are adequate grounds for permitting commer
Icial use in that building so that the - it ' s a more refined point
jand that is whether this is too heavy a commercial use for that . .
�! MR. BOOTHROYD: Mr. Chairman, I guess my real concern for the neig�-
s
Iborhood is that the impact that the traffic will have, that the
I+Iimpact that the noise will have no matter how you try to cut it an4
M
that the impact that the hours will have . And also , I am concerne
!
has to what might happen if we grant this variance and two or three
!
years down the road the - Mr. Cox decides he doesn' t want to be
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there anymore and something else happens . The variance is granted)
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and we are stuck with it.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: To respond to that very particular point , of coutse ,
the board can - if it grants a variance , attach conditions to it of
quite constrain the use so that any material change in use, althou h
not change in ownership, would be beyond the scope of the variance ;
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Are there any further questions from Mr . Boothroyd?
1 MR. WILCOX: Many neighborhoods do want to stay just that - neigh-
borhoods . Could you enlighten us , is there any tone or any para-
meters that the Council used - I mean, are you going to go back tothe
!
iIteepee days with the Indians or are you going to go back to when a
neighborhood had a small industry - was there some kind of tone sed
for - are you trying to reconstruct the neighborhoods as they were ;
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!! one hundred years ago , before the zoning ordinance or . . .
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111MR. BOOTHROYD: We are saying - we were saying , and we are saying
;; now in the zoning that we are enforcing or we are asking to be
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1� enforced, that what has happened in the East Hill area in particul4r ,
is not in the best interest - no disrespect Bill - is not in the b st
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interest of a residential neighborhood and that someplace , somewhe e
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along the line we 've got to say stop . We aren' t trying _ in my ow4
mind, in my own opinion, we aren' t trying to go back one hundred
years and make it - you know - from Court Street down it' s just
( houses and nothing else . But we have to say someplace - stop , thi
is enough. And that' s my idea of what the zoning is .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Further questions? Alright , let me - are you. . .
I� MR. BOOTHROYD : That ' s all , Mr . Martin.
I
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay. Thank you very much. Let me invite then
�Isomeone else who would like to speak in opposition. Mr. Bordoni
IMR. BORDONI : The first part of this is kind of lengthy so I am
� going to stick to about six questions that I have and its going to
deal with parking, traffic, noise , safety, future use as Mr. Booth-
royd just mentioned, and property values . It got a little confusing
but I think we started out with thirty-nine spaces and then we jumped
up four, made it forty-four, then we jumped - we lost eleven and w4
gained two so we had thirteen. Wherever we were I think we ended
up with twenty-six spaces for the restaurant . It seems to me thati
there is a problem here already where we are going to be fighting
i
to get the daytime tenants out in time so that the spaces will be
I
available for the nighttime people . When those thirteen spaces ar6
empty I hadn' t heard anybody mention where do the staff of this
restaurant park? I 'm not in the restaurant business but I can' t
imagine an operation that has one hundred twenty seat dining capaciity
Il and thirty seat lounge or bar capacity, I can' t imagine any less t4an
Bone-half a dozen to eight people at one time. You have to take into
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consideration that you are going to need cooks , dishwashers , bus
, boys , waitresses , bar tenders , maitre d ' s , parking lot attendants , '!
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land probably other things I haven' t mentioned. So I think we are
I p Y g i
'agoing to have a parking problem right there . It' s true that traffic
is going to be worse , it ' s bad now, route 13 is a feeder street , of
+� Dey Street is a feeder street to route 13 ; it' s been bad for the list
f
iten years , it gets worse , I can' t see that a restaurant is going 0
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improve it but I do think it will hurt it. The noise . You have a
' buffer which you propose to tear down. I don' t care what type of j
trees you put in there or wooden fencing, it ' s going to be a long
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p! time before it ' s an effective buffer. Aside from buffing the
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�inoise you are going to have a nighttime departure problem. When
4people leave an establishment like this here and have had a good
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time they are usually not very quiet . The area that they are talk�ng
about removing this garage or this buffer zone faces the back lots
I
lfof some homes where I think five out of six homes are elderly people.
f
There is one young family in there . I have pictures in my mind of
I
people leaving the restaurant, around midnight, before or after
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then, whenever, saying goodbye to each other, starting their engings
up, turning their headlights on and driving out. I don' t know howl,
effective you can be in building a buffer to deter this sort of
distraction and annoyance . I have serious questions about that. i
Safety. I guess we have gone over that . I don' t have to elaborat
.I
very much on it but the park is used. It' s used day times when it
should be used. It ' s used in the early evening, when it should be !
used. And it' s used in the late evening when it shouldn' t be used !
1but it is used. There are children there. Future use . As Mr . i
IlBoothroyd brought up , if the profit picture doesn' t look good two I
years from now, the smart thing to do is to revise your operation
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or sell , have someone else come in there and run a similar type
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business . But I find it very hard in my mind to be convinced that
i
Ino matter what type of zoning laws we have that I just have a gut
feeling that this is a very difficult thing to police . Changes car
'hake place very subtly, things can happen before anyone realizes
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lichanges have been made. I just don' t feel comfortable with the an wer
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'; that zoning restrictions will guarantee us against that because I 1
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have seen it fail in other areas in the residential districts
n and I think it would probably fail here too . Mr . Vasse' s comments +
ion property values , I couldn' t hear him very well , I don' t think i�
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iwas his intent not to be heard very well , but I think if I were in
+ the real estate business and two-thirds of my income were derived ,
� from commercial properties , I ' d be a damn fool not to give the I�
�lanswer he did, and I mean that. I had to travel the streets west
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of Cayuga and north of Adams Street during the last week on anothe�
6
related matter. In each place that I approached and had the oppo�-
jtunity to talk with a home owner, I discussed the business that I
I
was there to discuss with them, then I asked them if they were aware
e
of the restaurant that was being proposed. And then I asked them f
they were aware of the lounge that was going to accompany this resp
� taurant? And I don' t have a petition to back up what I am saying ;
Ibut I only found one person north of Adams Street that was in compljete
+agreement with it . I did not receive one phone call from anybody
,that was in favor of it . I received up to twenty phone calls against .
I
' I guess the only thing I can say in departing here , is if your home
were in this area how would you like to have an operation like that#
near you? And then again I wonder too of the residents on the Short
+!Street side of the block in question, how many of those people and j
, the people on Auburn Street - how many of those people were agreeable
{ to having a restaurant there? How many of those people understood j
{that, along with the restaurant comes delivery problems , garbage
`depositories , I guess I 'm not really prepared to bring up all the
+!problems that there could be , but I 'm sure that if you will concen-
trate on the parking, traffic, the noise, the safety, the future us6 ,
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Ithe property values and the way the restaurant takes care of itself
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physically on the exterior as far as deliveries and garbage go , tho$e
+considerations I think are very important. I think that is about
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all I have to say. Are there any questions? Thank you.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there any questions? Thank you. Yes sir.
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:' DAN RHOADES: My name is Dan Rhoades and, as I said before , I 'm on
of the organizers of the Fall Creek Civid Association. I must I
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apologize first of all for our not speaking out on this issue befo e .
lWe 've had a slight flooding problem down in our area which we have !,
been working very hard on and haven' t had the time to devote to thjs
question that we should. But I was asked to come tonight to speak ;
i
-ion this for our Association. We have received a number of calls
from individuals in the affected area as well as other areas of
Fall Creek who have all said that they are dead set against having ]
(
this establishment brought into the neighborhood. Now I even of
g g g j
11some calls from people who had signed the peitition. Now some of
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: them had said that they were under the impression that it was a
.' restaurant. There was nothing said about a lounge . In other word ,
! they were not aware of the fact that there was going to be a bar -
which the lounge really is , and so we - and not only that , I 'd
like to remind Ray Bordoni back there , about something else that - !
] about a week ago - we had a flooding meeting. One of the meetings ]
i
that we had with residents in the Fall Creek area concerning some ;
11problems - information that we were trying to get out of them con
I
cerning the flooding problem that we have down there. At the end
i1ofthe meeting we took a voice vote on the question - we had over
eighty people , residents of the Fall Creek , there - we took a voic
11vote on the question of whether we wanted that restaurant in there '
j
Hand the answer was overwhelmingly no . In fact, there was no one
I
11there who said that they wanted it . So , what I have to say basically
'lis that people do not want it in the neighborhood. They were undef
;tithe impression that it was one thing and not the way it was pre- r
� sented to the Board here . They weren' t aware of the fact that it
lwas going to be a lounge or a bar in there when it was presented t
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F� them. So I hope that the Board takes this into consideration. . .
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j� CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I might say in that connection, since this is obi
11viously a matter in which there is a lot of neighborhood sentiment
I
I that the Board is very concerned about the impact on the neighborhood
lof any proposed use , and it is quite interested in what people canl -
what light those who live in the neighborhood can cast on that im-
Ipact . The Board never , though, gets in a position of counting up
l� signatures on petitions or , you know, a proxy vote of what people
think for or against so that . . .
+ MR. RHOADES : I ' d like to address if I could, one other point and
that ' s child safety. I coach a Kiwanis Baseball team, in fact the
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Fall Creek Bombers , who incidentally won the Class D championship
Mast year in Kiwanis , but we are down there every night, during the
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III summer months we practice sometimes until 7 : 30 - 8 : 00 there are kis
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playing there every night during the summer months until 9 : 00 - 9 : 0
at night - you know, when the days are much longer and the increased
amount of traffic that is concerned with this restaurant has only
i got to - has got to affect them. Let me mention one other thing . ' I
i don' t know if you have ever been down to that park down there , but ;
' they have a back stop down there where they play baseball and I do�' t
I know how many times we 've had to have kids run out into the street#
for instance , on Adams Street or on Auburn Street to chase balls
Ibecause the back stop is much too small for the baseball field dow4
there and we are constantly having to have kids run out to retriev
I
balls that have gone past the back stop out into the street and th�
danger that this increase in traffic can bring to them - it ' s not
; only when we are there but I mean when kids are playing there con-
stantly in the summer time , because they do use this for a ball fi�ld
in the summer time . It ' s there - it ' s the neighborhood play ground
land they do use it until quite late , until dark, in fact, the kids !
flare always there until after dark so we are talking about children�s
safety also with this increased amount of traffic in there . So
Iltherefore, I hope the Board will vote this issue down.
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H CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there questions for Mr. Rhoades? Thank you
; sir. Who else would like to speak? Yes .
Ii MARIE MC RAE: My name is Marie McRae and I live at 210 Dey street
and I ' ve just recently moved into this neighborhood and I moved fr m
a home in which I had lived for five years because two years ago a
bar opened up across the street from me and my life became so un-
comfortable that I was forced to leave . I found very soon after if
opened that I couldn' t come home and find my private parking space
open. Even though they did have a parking attendant that I had tol
; constantly tow cars - that my sleep was disturbed every night be-
tween 10 : 30 and 1 : 00 or 2 : 00 in the morning because of the noise o
3�
; people coming and going and then I really began to wonder when I
came home if I ' d find my possessions undisturbed. It really bothe s
if me that this might happen again. I do understand that you are note
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f� proposing to open a night club . However, once the variance is j
!
granted I really feel that , if the reataurant fails or if you choo�e
I� to move on, that the variance and the bar will remain and that
bothers me a lot . I really feel that our neighborhood doesn' t need
( a restaurant , thatit doesn' t need any increase in traffic and nois
and that it doesn' t need any increased safety hazards for our chil�
dren. There are, I 'm told by people in the City Planning Office ,
vacant spaces downtown where the people drawn in by a restaurant
would be an asset rather than a nuisance. I 'd like to address a
few points that were brought up . First of all maintenance is also
good business as well as good neighborliness . I do like the buildF
ing, I think that the businesses which are currently in the buildi�g
can be an asset to the neighborhood but they do close at 5 : 00 and ,
i
they don' t bring the traffic load. My bedroom is directly across
the street from what would be the entrance to the parking lot on
s� Dey Street. I don' t know of any way to buffer my windows on a
summer evening from the cars coming and going through that entranco
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ii and unless you block it off there will be cars coming and going
I! even if you have a parking attendant . It ' s been pointed out a num�-
ber of times that the traffic on Dey Street is heavy and yet you
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(; propose to have the traffic - much of which will probably come offj
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11of 13 , come down Dey, across Adams and around to the entrance on
1Ithe Auburn Street side . I think that ' s really increasing the traf�ic
�iload on Adams Street between that building and the play ground. A
I
far as the traffic that is currently there for the businesses on m�
t
side of the building which are the Circuit Tree and the feed store #
very rarely do people use the parking lot. People park in the
street and often times I have trouble getting out of my driveway.
So I feel that already, even though there is supposedly parking spices
javailable for them, they aren' t used and it is very difficult to git
- -
Ilpeople to use them to enforce that. People stop in the street
i 1
pit' s easier and they do it that way. Also, figures were given for !
t
the number of cars that it was felt would be coming and going at
any given time and they were given on a per meal basis - in other
I
jwords , you were going to serve seventy-five to one hundred meals
therefore - and you broke it down. You are discounting people who !
would come only to the bar, who perhaps would come singly to the
I
! bar and thereby bringing even more cars . Your bar is going to be
it
open before and after your dinner hour and I really don' t think that
you can discount those cars . I think that is all I have to say ate
this point .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there questions from members of the Board?
You had a question that you wanted to ask?
I
fMR. PATTE : Can you give us the name of that establishment where yol
formerly resided?
IMS. MC CREA: Yes , it was the Waterfront Bar.
MR. PATTE: And that is strictly a bar is it not? j
i MS. MC CREA: It is a nightclub .
i
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Thank you Ms . McRae . Who would like to speak net?
Yes sir.
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( PAUL PETRILLOSE: My name is Paul Petrillose and I live at 312 Auburn
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(i Street. I was a former owner of Albanese 's building. To get back ]
I �
to a few statements the noise, a laundry does have a little noise
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laundries - but we were open from 7 : 30 in the morning,! P g to 3 : 30 in
A'
lithe afternoon. People weren' t sleeping then. Parking - I think
1Mr . Egner said there would be four places at the loading dock .
There won' t be any it ' s a concrete loading dock that ' s raised
! about 6 to 8" off the ground. How are you going to park cars up
I
ilthere? As to the impact of traffic down there , it ' s bad enough noir,
as John Schmidt said, we get cars going down - up and down Auburn
i Street one or two a minute. Maybe more . The people on Auburn '
� � Y P p i
Street across from me , there ' s several homes , they don' t have park
` ing facilities , the homes were built before they had 'em, they par
E
on the streets , it ' s practically a one-way street down there , f
especially now with the snow problems . His buffer zone , it ' s been;
I
said by several here, I don' t know how you are going to grow trees !
" I
�I� fast enough to block off the noise that the garages there buffer n�w.
ii As a park , you all know that the kids play there until 10 : 00 o 'clolk
at night - it' s open. You are saying, your busiest peak will be I
i
6 : 00 to 8 : 00 - you are going to have a problem. I don' t think all !
of your customers are going to park in the parking lot and I don' t!
think you do either because it ' s going to be a long ways to walk.
1 j
Several of our neighbors , I 've talked to a few of them today, in '
fact, there is seven houses on Auburn in that immediate block that
weren' t approached for any petition, myself is one . I think its -
i
with a restaurant there I think it would deteriorate, allow the
resale value of the homes in the immediate area, I think there 's j
F
!i other businesses that could be contacted. You say there isn' t any
problems with the book sale . Well there is about two weeks beforei
I!
the book sale , and about three weeks or four weeks that it goes on
that you can' t park on any of the streets down there . You can' t °
it even drive b there there are so man cars down I
y y n there . There is
�1 supposed to be eleven parking places now? I know several of the
44
I tenants in the building that never use a parking space . What does !
1Mr . Albanese propose to do with his own equipment at night? Are !
you going to take them out of there Rick? All your trucks at nigh?
II �
11 MR. ALBANESE : It' s a possibility.
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ijMR. PETRILLOSE: It' s a possibility but if you don' t there is less !
parking places. So that is about all I have to say.
;1CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Thank you. Yes. Who else would like to speak? j
iFAY BOWER: My name is Fay Bower and I live at 514 N. Tioga Street
land I am Vice Chairman of the Fall Creek Civic Association. There ;
was one question I wanted to ask Mr. Cox - you did say that you weie
1 1
going to have a lunch hour?
" MR. COX: Lunch hour? That' s right .
I
, MR. BOWER: From about what time? I
1
IMR. COX: Between the hours of 11 : 30 to 2 : 00 .
SMR. BOWER: And you maintain that you will have these parking plac4s
available - twenty-six parking spots available for your customers`
MR. COX: That' s right. Our lunch trade will
! MR. BOWER: It will? One thing I would like to refer to the Board)
I worked a year and one-half on this zoning and we got our zoning
changed to R-2b and that says no restaurants . This also includes
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j our housing too . We were pretty distraught with some of the cases ;
that have been coming up and what we fought so hard for with this I
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i rezoning to get our area rezoned, we keep seeing - like the case i
( before come up and they want to change it . Well we don' t want that{ .
, I
I don' t know what we have to do to tell people that we don' t want
this but that ' s the way that we want our community - it' s always '
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I been that way and we want to leave it that way.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Well , in some cases to conform the community to
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the zoning you would have to knock some buildings down, including
this particular one . The ordinance, while it was changed, still
provides for variances under appropriate conditions and so as long ;
i
I as variances are part of the ordinance you will have people who will
�Iseek them and the Board will have to decide whether or not to grana
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j! them.
! MR. BOWER: Well in this particular case I would like to know in
advance for Mr . Albanese - if you ever convert the third floor
I1would you come back for a variance and ask for more parking space? j
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MR. ALBANESE: That' s what the Zoning Board has told us - we must I
do that.
I MR. BOWER: Do you think you will be able to get it?
I MR. ALBANESE : There is no way to know - no way to tell . Impossible .
r
iMR. BOWER: Would he be able to get it? If this restaurant went i�?
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�II 'm asking you now because I would like to know.
{ CHAIRMAN MARTIN: The Board has forever been concerned about the
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whole building not just the little bites that have . . . .
MR. BOWER: Well the little bites have taken place right along herd .
i�
IICHAIRMAN MARTIN: That ' s why we tonight asked for a full inventoryl)
�jof what is there - the Board has been concerned about the total
i,
number of parking spaces - if you listened to our questions this
E
evening - we are quite aware of the fact that all of the spaces ark
i
now spoken for, alright? I don' t think the Board is blind to what
is going on. I
MR. BOWER: Okay. I 'm just here to - just to keep my eye on it .
Il Thank you.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Thank you. Yes .
I ANN MC BURNEY: Mr . Chairman, my name is Ann McBurney and I live a
103 Franklin Street. I am one of the seven houses in the immediat
block of Albanese and I don' t think not one person of the seven
i
!I signed the petition for the restaurant. Okay — you' re going to ha e
a lunch hour. To get back to the parking, where are those cars gof
i ing to park at lunch time when all the businesses are open and their
1 i
trucks and their cars and their customers and everybody else is t
there? Another thing , it ' s an old building- what about fire? We
are right there where we would have to get out if that building
ever went . It ' s an old building - you just take a good look at it #
�II don' t care how much paint you put on it, it is still an old buil4-
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d ing and some of us are pretty close to it . We would be scorched.
�lSure you got a petition - you got the petition - Jay Street and i
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' down Lincoln Street. We 're right in the same block and we don' t
; want it . That ' s all .
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( CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay. Thank you. Others who have new information
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Ito add - yes sir . Please come forward, yes . i
! MR. MC BURNEY: My name is Jim McBurney, I live at 103 Franklin
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Street, corner of Auburn Street . That was my wife who was just upj
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here. I don' t have much to say because everybody else has covered
all the points. The only thing that I think - I 'm friends with Ri4k
fand I met Mr. Cox just last week and I know Tony Albanese , and I
!
want to stay friends with them but I feel that the parking probleml
lis one of the big parts of this situation, here , and seeing as howl
I invested in a couple hours here tonight, I wanted to just be up j
here and say that I second what Mr . Boothroyd and Mr. Bordoni and
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some of the other people who spoke - the points that they covered, !
too . Thank you.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright , Thank you. Anyone else? Is there any
I information that anyone here would like to bring before the Board
I on Case 1192 , the proposed restaurant? Yes .
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JANET VOLPICELLI : My name is Janet Volpicelli and I live at 415
i Willow Avenue and I would just like to add that when the kids do
come to the park to practice for Kiwanis and their little league b ll ,
the parents drive them in cars. Now there are tons of cars around )
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that park, usually all summer while they are practicing. I think ,
that ' s - the other thing I ' d like to say is that the small businesses
in the building that you were talking about and you mentioned one
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or two cars during the day came to the businesses , right - customers
or whatever - the dog food place , is that right?
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! MR. ALBANESE : Pet foods , ma'am.
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MRS . VOLPICELLI : Pet foods , right . There is tractor trailers on
there have been tractor trailers on Dey Street unloading I don' t !
what they are unloading - whether it is dog foor or if its for the !
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11Circuit Tree or whatever, but there is a lot more traffic than oneT
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� or two cars.
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iCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like
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' to be heard in opposition on this requested variance? Alright , let
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�Ime repeat what I said before about petitions for and against , the j
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! Board does not count signatures on petitions but , having heard P
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tabout a petition in favor of and a fair amount of testimony about
j� the conditions under which it was obtained, let me give a petition]
now of people who are opposed, that has been furnished the Board. i
It is dated February 26 , 1978 - "We the undersigned concerned abou
the proposed opening of a restaurant and bar at 102 Adams Street !
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lbecause we feel that it will adversely affect the quality of life i
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Iin our neighborhood. " And that petition has ten signatures from
people around the building in question. Now, Mr . Patte you have
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something that you need to say?
jjMR. PATTE : The question in regard to the possibility of danger
through fire of course fire codes are going to be complied with.
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I think it should state on the record that there is a sprinkler
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system in the building now, it will be updated to specifications
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1 of the code and I think anything that can be done will be done in
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that respect .
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I believe then that that concludes our hearing irk
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this case . I want to thank everyone for their patience and sittin
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! through what has been a very thorough hearing of the evidence on
�Ithis case and I 'assure you the Board will pay close attention to
all of it. The next case .
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
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II CITY OF ITHACA
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!� MARCH 7 , 1978
EXECUTIVE SESSION
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APPEAL NO. 1192 :
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jMRS. MAXWELL : I move that the use variance in
Case No . 1192 be denied.
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MR. GATNEY: I second the motion. �
( FINDING OF FACT : 1) Traffic problems will be increased
2) Late night noise will be generated
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� and annoying to neighbors .
3) The parking problems will be in-
creased.
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4) The buffer zone cannot be maintained
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because of increased parking space .
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S) While testimony indicated that thele
is already a serious traffic probl�m
in the area the proposed restaurant
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E and bar would generate additional
i traffic , especially at times when
the park is in heavy use by childr�n
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and later in the night when the
neighborhood is otherwise quiet .
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VOTE: S Yes ; 0 No .
Use variance denied.
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` SECRETARY HOARD announced the next case to be heard:
APPEAL NO. 1193 : Appeal of Anthony Albanese for a
use variance under Section 30 . 25 ,
Column 2 , to use part of the pre-
mises at 102 Adams Street for a i
pet food store . The property is j
located in an R-2b (Residential)
use district where merchantile use4
are not permitted. I
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright, so in this case we are talking about thq
same address - the Pet Food Store?
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IIMR. ALBANESE : That is correct .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Tell us about that business and I gather we are
talking now about something that is there rather than something
proposed although it is going to have to go pretty quick if we don t
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grant a variance.
q MR. ALBANESE : The Pet Food Store is in a small establishment - it
has one employee , J. C. Muncey, and he is from the Lansing area .
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He - his area is about 1800 square feet of which 1400 is storage .
!
He has one vehicle and, as I have seen , very low volume of traffic1
And he will - the area that we are talking about is in the center
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north section of the building. If - no one has a map or anything . !
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pDo you need to locate that? Are there any questions I can answer? l
ii MRS . MAXWELL : Is it a retail store? People come in and buy?
MR. ALBANESE: Yes , people come and buy pet foods .
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I MRS. MAXWELL: How long has he been there?
MR. ALBANESE: Since about the first of the year.
�iCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Can you tell us about deliveries? We 've heard that
! there are big trucks coming.
MR. ALBANESE: The only vehicle that I have seen that is of a tractor
iltrailer type was in his initial starting - there was a tractor trainer
; there for about a half a day and it came in on the - where the
` parking lot is on the Auburn Street side and spent about a half a
IIday and he has a delivery truck - a smaller truck where he packs
I�1packages of food in, contained food - dog food, cat food, horse
`Ifood and that sort.,
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( CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright.
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; DR. GREENBERG : Is it bulk delivery - you say all packaged and
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;': nothing else?
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IMR. ALBANESE: It' s packaged.
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� DR. GREENBERG: Nothing bulk?
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MR. ALBANESE: No . It ' s all packaged.
DR. GREENBERG : There might be a problem with vermin anyway, would* t
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there? It could be a problem with vermin?
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IIMR. ALBANESE : We have taken some precautions and he is aware of
! that - that up until this time there has been no vermin problem,
because there' s nothing there. But with him being there , he is - 4e
are going to - how should I say it - be sure that that won' t be a
problem - in other words , have a cat around, have whatever is
Eneeded to protect his goods . He' s got goods to protect - he can' t
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afford to have that either so - but I mean that is one of the
reasons it' s packaged it' s prepackaged, it' s not open to the air -
! it' s not open to the - not in open containers .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: You say low volume , can you give us a little mord . . .
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i sense of that?
MR. ALBANESE: What I 've seen are two or three cars a day that would
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come up . A car would drive up and that would be it , I have not se6n
( more than that.
DR. GREENBERT: Rick I hate to labor a point , does the Department df
Health have anything to do with it?
MR. ALBANESE : Excuse me?
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DR. GREENBERG : I mean, it' s food - it' s foodstuff, does the Board !of
Health - the Department of Health have anything to do , do they have
� to approve this facility?
SMR. ALBANESE : No, I don' t know.
� DR. GREENBERG: Does anybody know?
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MR. HOARD: I don' t think so - not for animal foods .
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IDR. GREENBERG : Not for animal food?
HMR. GAINEY: I have a little concern as far as that ' s concerned be-
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;! cause I 've received numerous complaints about the rat problem that ;
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jthey have over behind the P & C which is only a two block area and,!
!jas you know, if you clean up one area they seem to tend to go to
';another area or transient back and forth between two areas . When
it
.!the creek level is low. I don' t know what I am really looking for
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but I am a little concerned about that as far as that could become
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' a problem.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Is your tenant here , can - I mean, it would help
to have somebody who knows the business . . . the packaging and whethe
vermin are . . .
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I1MR. ALBANESE: No , he is not .
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IMR. GAINEY: You know, we are talking also a restaurant , possibly
lbeing here and we ' re talking, you know, garbage that is going to be
'laying around even though they have these dumpsters that are en-
iiclosed, and stuff, but it scares me a little bit .
� MR. ALBANESE: Well, like I say, as far as they - his foods , every-!
'thing is packed - nothing is open. It ' s all in containers and people
(come in, pick up a container of bird seek, or whatever, but it' s all
contained.
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there further questions? I guess not. Is
{there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the requested
variance for the Pet Food Store? Is there anyone who would like to!
'speak in opposition to it? Mrs . McCrae.
MRS. MC CRAE : I think that I 'm not exactly in opposition to this
food store . It seems to be a small operation. The person who runs
lit is amiable - the things that come to mind however, are the number
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I'of cars that I see when I am home at mid-day. My job allows me time
iduring the day to be home and the cars coming and going are pretty j
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constant. Again, the parking. That parking lot just is not used.
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, People park on the street and there they sit . The person I believe;
lit ' s the person who runs the place , has a pick-up truck which is i
either always parked next to my driveway or across the street which'
makes it very difficult to see cars coming. Okay, there is a trailier
��jbed in the parking lot now. A big 40 or 50 foot enclosed - I 'm
IIwonderi i
ng if that belongs to the owner of the Pet Food Store and if
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11it will be moved? 1
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1IMR. ALBANESE : No.
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i1MRS . MC CRAE: No? It has his sign on it though.
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�IMR. ALBANESE : It' s got his sign on it? It doesn' t belong to him. ;
, I hadn' t noticed it.
MRS. MC CRAE: Okay. And I guess the only other point - about the
�Irats - that I would make is I could probably chew through a paper
'Ibag and I don' t know how many times I 've picked up a bag of dog '
ifood or bird food and had it go all over the floor . Thank you.
( CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Is there anyone else who would like to speak on
'+ this case? Anyone else who would like to speak on the requested
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variance for the Pet Feed Store? Alright , that concludes our hearI-
ing on that case.
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- 74
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
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CITY OF ITHACA
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MARCH 7 , 1978
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EXECUTIVE SESSION
�I�
1APPEAL NO . 1193 : I
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;(CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I move that the Board defer decisio
in case no . 1193 until the next
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�) meeting at which hearing it would
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j like the opportunity to get the
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testimony of the proprietor of the
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!j store.
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R. WILCOX: I second the motion.
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MOTE: 5 Yes ; 0 No .
I Motion carried. I
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SECRETARY HOARD announced the next appeal to be heard:
�i
APPEAL NO. 3-1- 78 : Appeal of Anthony Albanese for a
variance under Section 34 . 5-B- 1 of
.t the sign ordinance to restore the
j' original "Ithaca Calendar Clock
Company" sign to the front of the
building at 102 Adams Street. The
sign would greatly exceed in area
the five square foot maximum for
!� signs in the R-2b (Residential) use
f district in which the property is
located.
�IICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Let me set the stage . Here I believe you start
11from scratch although that was not the case with the prior use var-
1
dances because here you are seeking a variance to the sign ordin-
'ilance and a variance , as I understand the interplay between the sig
l�
' ordinance and the zoning ordinance would require you to show some
llform of impracticality or hardship in complying with the sign or i-
finance . So that I 'm not only - I take it the Board would not only
'�jbe interested in how large and how pretty and how historic that sign
( would be but also the difficulty of complying with the much narrower
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!iterms of the sign ordinance.
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,iMR. ALBANESE : The whole idea behind, my father should be so lucky
;Ito be here - not to be here tonight - the whole idea behind this
1Iproposal - this variance was to restore help us restore - refurbilsh
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;;the historical nature of the building. I cannot see that this is al
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,sign. It has words , it not advertising , there is no longer an
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; Ithaca Calendar Clock Factory in a nutshell , I feel it is just a
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request for restoring something to its historical nature . Since its
lihas been declared a landmark. . .
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(!CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Well , if I can disagree with you, I mean - maybe
'iyou are making not so much: a legal point as some other one , but I
11would feel rather confident it is a sign within the definition of I
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!!the Ithaca Sign Ordinance and that indeed it serves many of the puri-
11poses of a sign. It would identify the building so that any of your
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;;tenants could then advertise their location as in the Ithaca Calend4r
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Klock Factory, and that would help people find their way to that
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';particular tenant 's operation so that I think we clearly have a sig
;land the question is whether you are entitled to a variance for it .
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- 76 -
FMR. ALBANESE: Well , my thought was that a sign is going to be ad-
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`: vertising for somebody. A sign is there to direct somebody to do
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j;' something or to shop or to indicate some positive gain for someone ]
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jjand in other words , this - there is no Ithaca Calendar Clock Factoly
;] this is the way we looked at it and we approached the Planning Boa d
jwith this idea that we would like to restore the historical nature
Hof this building and one way we could do it was if the sign could
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; be returned - original lettering . I submitted a picture , I don' t
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; know if you have it - or a copy of it?
'! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Yes - it ' s attached to the application.
'! MR. ALBANESE: Okay. Other than that I - if it ' s technically - it' s
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;] technically a sign and it would not be protruding from the building
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;; and it would not be neon; it would not be a florescent paint - we
; just felt that that would be an appropriate thing since we had
ypainted the building and got it going forward, that this would help.
; the whole character of the building.
;=CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay, are there questions from members of the
j Board? I mean, as I read the sign ordinance , it has a very aggres-
! sive, a very all encompassing definition of signs so that we would
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!]have to say that those letters would comprise a sign and so , in order
!I.I
;oto put it there , at least as the ordinance is now written, you would
!have to persuade the Board of grounds for a variance from the limi-i
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citations of the sign ordinance .
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�,MR. ALBANESE: Well , I - was there a question?
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HCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there questions from members of the Board?
�MR. WILCOX: What ' s the 1874 - 1876?
&R. ALBANESE: Excuse me? I
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!jMR. WILCOX: What are these two dates , now - these dates , are they. . . . :
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kMR. ALBANESE: I think those are the approximate dates - somewhere
jin that time span when that picture was taken. To give you an i
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;!idea of what it would look like , it would return those letters to
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`the front of the building.
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ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: I mean, it might well be that the ordinance would
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- 77 -
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be better off if it had some provisions to create exception for
historic signs or signs that refer to some historic use of the
property but it doesn' t have that as it now reads .
1` MR. GAINEY: By doing this , do you become more affiliated with the
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lhistorical societies and does this open you up for funds that are
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(! available through historical . . . ?
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IiMR. ALBANESE : I don' t know anything about that - no I 'm not familiar
11with that at all .
11MR. WILCOX: Well , the building is already on the historical regis-
ter? I
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;; CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Right . They would need, I 'm quite sure , the
approval of the Landmarks Commission to do it , put the sign there .
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!! MR. ALBANESE: Yes , I was supposed- I have to get in touch with
it
1Mr. Meigs . . . . i
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: But it doesn' t - the doing of it doesn' t , as I
, understand it , open up any new possibilities for you.
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�iDR. GREENBERG: The question to the Board I think, if the Landmark
' Committee came to us with the request , would we have another view as
11regards the sign as a sign or as a hardship proof, if they came to
'Jus rather than if Albanese came to us? Or it would make no differ
ence?
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; CHAIRMAN MARTIN: It might make a slight difference but my reading
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of the sign ordinance and the Board' s past application of it , has
been limited to presentations made by particular property owners
,, that the constraints of the sign ordinance simply as applied to thim
iimpose a hardship . Given the configuration of their property in
relation to highways , etc . they couldn' t be as small or in the
jplaces the sign ordinance said their sign had to be and get proper
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; identification. It strikes me that those are not the grounds on
i1which. you are seeking to have that larger sign but they are really
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'! quite different and I don' t see a proper place for that in the sign}
ordinance as it now exists.
DR. GREENBERG: They would have to invent a place .
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+IMR. WILCOX; What would the appellant do then, what would you Sugg st?
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'! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I would suggest going to Council and saying thatf
IIthis is really a very special case and maybe there ought to be an
,, exception to the sign ordinance for historic signs - signs that . . .I
� MR. WILCOX: Yes , I agree with you, I think maybe they should writ
something that fits into the ordinance . And then if you get a re-
,, commendation of historic Ithaca or the Landmarks Commission it wou d
:; be a shue-in. It seems like a lot of work for a sign but . . .
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Well the sign ordinance as it now exists , repre- i
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I1sented a very aggressive attempt to put limits on signs - not limits
ii defined by any kind of aesthetic judgment about how pretty or his-
!; toric the signs were but simply size standards and set back standa�ds ,
;; with few loop holes .
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1MR. ALBANESE : I might find that we would be a little different if '
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ithe building were situated within visible distance of Route 13 and '
!! you wanted to restore the sign but it' s turned right around facing
lthe community and the whole idea behind it was purely just to re-
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1store the nature and get it looking back the way it used to . But
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!1that ' s the only thing that - our only thoughts .
i1CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay. Is there anyone else here who would like
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H to speak on the sign issue? Yes .
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I, JON BERNSTEIN: I 'm Jon Bernstein of 216 Dey Street and the baker
'i of Clever Hans Bakery. I would propose to you, Mr. Chairman and
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members of the Board that in view of the action which seems eminenj
Iltonigh.t that everything you could do to assist Albanese in making j
itheir property more marketable , be done and if that means modifyin '
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or violating the initial intent of the Common Council in this parti-
cular
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cular case I would consider that appropriate in view of the hard-
ship which I would see likely that the neighborhood would be impost
ding on Albanese . There, what I am saying is , I don' t see the var-
iance for the restaurant going through, it ' s going to be very roug
sledding for these people in the future, they may fail and every i
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llittle boost you can give them to make the building more marketable
! as an institution of local prominance, boosting the historic signil
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� £icance of the neighborhood as a landmark, would be of great help j
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j to them in the future , especially if considerable percentage of th
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; footage of the building remains unrented. There are very few act;
vities that I can conceive of which you will probably allow in the ,
,, building and it being as difficult to maintain as it is , if you car
[, giv;
e it a greater identity as a historic building, that might help I
s�
I them a little bit because they are going to have very rough sleddi g
jahead. Perhaps a clinic , perhaps storage but I think they got a
1hardship case because I 'm looking down the road about an hour and
done-half when you reach your decision - I may be wrong but they have
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a hardship case and the sign is a small modification to make in this
; particular case . I cannot believe of anyone in the neighborhood j
objecting. No . Any questions?
II, CHAIRMAN MARTIN; Are there questions? I must say that I should
1'
respond to your suggestion that we would violate the intent of the
1Isign ordinance to do a boost to somebody. We try to be very sensi-
+ tive to proper cases for variances but it is not our role to violate
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I� the terms of the sign ordinance . If it poses constraints on some-
body that may be unwise or unreasonable given the very special cir-I
Icumstance there should be special exceptions for historic signs -
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r! that' s not our business to amend the sign ordinance or to change itl
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or to violate it. In terms of proof of hardship , as I 've heard Mr .
1!Albanese he is not focused on the hardship of the sign ordinance for
11
(;him and it is that kind of hardship imposed by the sign ordinance
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lthat we 'd have to consider to justify a variance from it . Alright
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;pare there others who would like to address this request for a var-
liance from the sign ordinance? We will move on to the next case .
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
I CITY OF ITHACA
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MARCH 71 1978
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( EXECUTIVE SESSION
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11APPEAL NO. 3-1-78 :
1ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: I move that the variance from the
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j Sign Ordinance in Appeal 3-1- 78
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be denied.
MAXWELL : I second the motion.
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',FINDINGS OF FACT : 1) The testimony presented does not j
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II indicate that the requirements of
the sign ordinance impose hardship
or great practical difficulty on
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i= the property owner. j
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jj 2) The Board does not have broad
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authority to vary the provision of I
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I; the Sign Ordinance for attractive
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3) Perhaps such an exception ought to
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be added to the Sign Ordinance .
Ii If so that is a matter for Common
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Council . j
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'VOTE: 5 Yes ; 0 No .
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j Variance denied.
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, SECRETARY HOARD announced the next appeal to be heard:
APPEAL NO. 1194 : - Appeal of Norman C . Long for an ar a
variance under Section 30 . 25 , Columns
4 , 6 , 10 , 11 and 14 to expand and
enclose the rear porch of the two-
family dwelling at 208 Stewart Ave ue
and to add decking to said dwelling
that would extend to and connect
the workshop/garage at the rear of
the lot to the dwelling . The prop
erty is located in an R- 3a (Reside -
i tial) use district , is deficient i
`i off-street parking, and front yard
setback. If the variance is grant d
the construction will cause maximu
'i lot coverage to be exceeded and th
rear yard to be deficient .
11MR. HOARD : I don' t see anybody here on this appeal .
;;CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Is there anyone Mr . Hoard doesn' t see here on th s
; appeal? Then we will pass it over. The next case?
?. SECRETARY HOARD announced the next appeal to be heard:
v
;APPEAL NO. 1195 : Appeal of Roger W. Dennis for a use
variance under Section 30 . 25 Colum
2 , and an area variance under Section
30 . 25 Column 7 , to permit construction
of a fifteen unit multiple dwelling
at 7 - 21 Hudson Place. The property
j is located in an R-2a use district
which permits only one or two-family
dwellings. The property does not h ve
width at the street sufficient to
support the number of one and two
family dwellings that would produce
the equivalent number of units .
{MR. HOARD : Mr . Dennis is here and his attorney, Mr. Hines .
' MR. HINES : This is going to be very short. We are going to rely o�
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lithe common sense of the Board and so, I think there is still some
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(left. As Buzzy Boothroyd pointed out , we 've missed the game , I kno
Ajit was 5 to 5 the last I heard. I don' t know what it is now. I ha
;!some photographs taken of the instant property together with a coupe
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11architectural drawings and I have a map of Hudson Heights - the
Ilproperty that we are referring to are identified on the maps as loth
19 and 21 , and I ' ll just leave the map. The entire parcel of
;Mand was owned at one time by Gene Dennis who is Roger ' s father andl
I was on the Common Council when the land was annexed to the City s�me
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;years ago . Gene Dennis then transferred ownership of all but these
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llthree lots that we are talking about to Mr. 'Glover from Syracuse
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:who developed Hudson Heights . Last summer Roger bought Hudson Hei ht;
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;! from Mr. Glover and just very recently his dad transferred the thr e
' lots to Roger. Now Roger owns the entire project. The argument i
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lquite simple, you can use - in any event the three lots - contiguous
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( lots have a grade which is depicted in the photographs which you can
;! examine , slopes generally to the north and down rather steeply to
' the immediate west is the Southside Fuel Company owned by Ted Fish
!land that ' s shown in the photographs and he has been there for a i
,number of years and his driveway in which his trucks go in and out
!;abounds these lots on the south. Hudson Heights is to the south of
;lit and there are other commercial uses - there is a restaurant -
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!Chinese Restaurant on Coddington Road which is shown in the photo-
graphs . Immediately adjacent to the east of the lots is the - are
!;single and two-family dwellings and I am sure the people are here tO
!
!;talk about the impact on those . The proposed use is simply this :
!!Roger who is here, feels that he has built a number of buildings ,
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the has been in this business for awhile , he has some idea of the
!
{!economics of it. It isn' t economical to build single family or
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'Idouble family residences there because he doesn' t think there - for
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lthhe construction cost - that they will sell because of the Southsid�
( Coal & Fuel Oil Company and the other multiple dwellings immediately
!adjacent to this property. This is - so the land isn' t going to bei
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jeconomically used for the use consistant with the zoning ordinance .
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;;Therefore he feels that the only logical use is to expand the densi y
on those lots and try to obtain transient use through the rental of
!apartments . If somebody is not going to make a long term financial
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'commitment to buy a house next to a Southside Coal & Fuel Company,
!maybe somebody might rent an apartment for a periodic use . He' s !
jjbeen successful renting the units of Hudson Heights - so he has
;f
;asked that he be permitted to build multiple residences . Now there
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lis no sense dragging a real estate broker in who doesn' t know any j
;pore about it than you do and say that this is a nice economic use .
!;The logic of it is that he doesn' t think he can build a single or
!double family residence and sell it to anybody and therefore he doe n' t
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Iwant to do that . He wouldn' t expend the money he doesn' t think it'
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Jeconomical to build just a few units for commercial rental . The
: economics of building are such that he feels the more units , the
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,higher density, the better rate of return. So he has some lots whi h
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the feels because of the slope and grade and location and the fact
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I�that they are situated in a sense , in a buffer area between the
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;'existing apartments and the single and double family residences tha
tit ' s not practical to use consistent with the zoning ordinance and
(that' s why he has come before you. I have a bunch of photographs
There which. . .
!'CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Will you be able to leave them with us?
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R. HINES : Oh yes , I ' ll leave all of them - as long as we can get
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!!,them back - some time.
!(CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay.
IMR. HINES : They have no practical value to anybody else , I 'm sure .
`'Roger, do you want to explain to them why you want to do this?
i�ROGER DENNIS: I have these three lots and they are really not being
i
ut to use except to collect taxes for the city. There is already
n existing parking lot on it - on the facility, so there shouldn' t !
e any problem with parking places for off-street parking. The land
really slopes off drastically after this parking area - right
1�traight down the hill so there is really not much other use to use
4t for. And - I don' t know - it would be a nice site to construct
it
building on. It has a nice view. I talked with the people in
11�he China Inn and people about obstructing the view which is one of
it
'the big concerns about the south hill area because you do have a
Dice view of the lake and Cornell University and also west hill and
� ith the slope of the land you can build apartments that are only aj
1�tory and one-half above the parking lot as it stands and it won' t
I�
i6bstruct anybody' s view and it should be fairly compact and should
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it in pretty much with the surrounding area providing, maybe, a
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;duffer between the Southside Fuel and the residential district and
41so being of different type of units I 'm not going with studios , I 'm
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going with two bedrooms and the philosophy that I 've always had is
I 'm not a landlord that just goes out after "students . " Ithaca, a
;!: everybody knows , is a very studient-oriented town but with Morse
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j� Chain and NCR there are a number of families or single people that
Ijwould like to rent apartments. Therefore I don' t think that . . .
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1ICHAIRMAN MARTIN: How many bedrooms will these units have?
s!
JMR. DENNIS: These will have two bedroom apartments .
,CHAIRMAN MARTIN: You've got three lots , zoned R- 2 so that the
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�lexisting zoning would permit you to put a - to have three, two-unit
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!buildings there and you want , instead, to have fifteen units on the.
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jthree lots?
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fJMR. DENNIS: Right.
;!CHAIRMAN MARTIN: And what can you add to what' s already been said
11by Mr. Hines that there is a question of whether you couldn' t put
I1three two-unit buildings there as the Ordinance says you should?
1MR. DENNIS: Well , we built on the corner of Hudson and Coddington
jve built two buildings there and the price ran very high to build
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!two separate buildings. Also the landscaping of this particular
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; Site - you know - you could probably do it but you' d build one buil -
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ng and have to build another one right next to it and just put a
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,walk way through if you wanted to separate the buildings . It is ju t
�eally not feasible to make a corridor down through the center of
fhe building for that small a number of units . You know, exterior
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Riding is fairly expensive compared with - you know - a common wall
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between a building - it ' s really pretty much unfeasible to do it .
It could be done okay? but the cost would increase considerably.
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i!CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there questions from members of the Board?
�, R. WILCOX: When you make that - when you make the turn off from
4udson Street on to this curbed street - what is it, is it the firs
Orb?
R. DENNIS : Would you like to see a map?
$R. WILCOX : Yes , I would.
(Discussion between Mr . Wilcox and Mr . Dennis while looking
at the map wasn' t picked up by the tape recorder . )
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,, CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Let me remind you if there is anything that the
' rest of us should be hearing and we should get on the tape it should
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` be said louder than you are speaking. Are there any further ques-
t,
tions from members of the Board? Anything you want to add?
MR. DENNIS: Not really.
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!! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright . We will come back to you if there are
H
any questions that are raised by others here . Is there anyone her
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this evening who would like to speak in favor of this requested
11variance? Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition t
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Jit? Sir .
1MR. BOARDMAN: My name is Allen Boardman. I live at 15 Hudson Place
, which is adjacent to Lot No . 17 of these three lots . I 'd like to
i�begin by filling you in on some of the details of the history of
1the property up there. Mr . Dennis - Mr . Gene Dennis , I believe
is
11purchased all of this property either from Mr. Fish or from the
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I?Lackawanna Railroad Company then divided it up into building lots . )
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1I bought my lot at number 15 from Mr . Dennis in August 1963 . At
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the time the whole area, which was zoned R-Z was planned as building
;; lots. After - well mayby three or four of the lots on the total o
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Iabout four or five lots on the north the downhill side of Hudson
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(Place were sold and houses were constructed on them, then Mr. Dennis
(decided that he would like to go into the apartment business and
11rather than sell these other lots off as individual building lots ,
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Ito build efficiency apartments . In 1965 he applied for a zoning
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!1wariance in order to construct the two studio apartment buildings oh
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!! the corner of Coddington Road and Hudson Place . These two buildingls
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have thirty apartments and two laundry units each so a total of
11
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I�sixty apartments in that area. The Planning Board, in approving
IjMr. Dennis ' request to build these two buildings suggested - place
; the condition that Mr . Dennis reserve some property on the east side
i'of Hudson Place for recreation space for these units which were on i
!! the west side of Hudson Place . About a year after this , Mr . Dennisf
;;decided that he would like to build two more apartment buildings o
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sthe east or southeast side of Hudson Place . Each building to con-
,... �
;stain nineteen efficiency units plus one laundry room so there would
be a total of thirty-eight more units there . These were to be con
' structed on lots number 6 through 16 . Along with it - now these
!� e
'' buildings - these numbered units were more than the R-2 zoning law
jpermitted at the time - in 1966. Therefore , Mr . Dennis proposed
'Ithat lots number 13 and 17 be used as recreation space for these
t
,: two apartment buildings . At the time Mr . Dennis had sold lots 19 j
j; and 21 to Mr. Pavely and so he couldn' t offer 17 , 19 and 21 as
';; recreation space but he offered 13 and 17 . And this was in an applli-
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,, cation to the Building Commissioner of September 14 , 1966 . Some
; time after this , it may have been a month, maybe a couple weeks , d
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„ maybe a month and one half, Mr. Dennis repurchased lots 19 and 21
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( from Mr. Pavely and then proposed at a public hearing down here in
; Common Council Chambers that lots 17 , 19 and 21 be used as recrea
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!: tion space for the thirty-eight units on lots 6 through 16 . The
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'! architect at that time , it was D. Ferentino of Syracuse , showed
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;` lots as a green area - lots 17 , 19 and 21 - as a green area, on
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'. his map which has apparently been presented to the Building Com-
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missioner. Mr. Dennis told me that he wanted to use part of it
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IJor a tennis court and part of it for badminton court and he graded
off two areas . In 1971 I purchased from Mr . Dennis lot no . 13
,, this was a single lot between my house at 15 and Mr. Warner' s houso
'' down there at no. 11 . I built a two-family house on it hoping to
11sell it but I made it a little too big for the neighborhood so I 'm '
'' still owning it and renting it out . Shortly after I bought this
'property from Mr . Dennis in the early summer or late spring of 1971
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I11Mr. Dennis paved one of the flat areas of - mostly on lot 19 - of
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., this 17 , 19 and 21 complex. He paved this for a tennis court. This
is the black top area which is referred to as a parking lot. The
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' lower area is just been left in its natural condition. I have cuts
:,,, the grass on there but nothing was ever done to make it into a bad-'
, minton court or anything else like this . But I believe , that it
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; was Mr. Dennis ' intention, at least to develop the tennis court.
': However, he retired before he finished the project. So I think
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that we should consider this the history of this area before you 1
'; grant any variance . My other thing - my other concern is that
this plan on a 15 - two-bedroom units would place approximately
thirty bedrooms on ten building lots or - sorry, thirty bedrooms
!
on three building lots or approximately ten bedrooms per lot . Thi
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�! is a considerably greater density than exists in the rest of the
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jarea . I just quickly tried to figure what was on the rest of the
;; street in terms of the number of bedrooms in each house and I camel
'i up with about thirty-three bedrooms in seven houses - just under
lIfive per house and across the street in the efficiency units , Hud- !
! son Heights - thirty-e,ight on six lots is about 6-1/3 per lot . Anj
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ithis had already exceeded the R- 2 zoning . Now the city did - when !
,! the city rezoned they changed the area where Hudson Heights is to
'! R- 3 rather than leave it R- 2 with a variance but this area on lots
17 - 19 - 21 was still zoned as R- 2 or R-2a. I am concerned about !
,; the effect of this on my own property value . If I - I think it
; would detract from the value of my house - if this many units were °
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placed over there . Like Mr. Dennis said, it ' s not profitable to p t
la two- family house on there. I happen to own a two-family house rilght
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;; next to this and I think the value would go down further if all of
;, these units were there . I would have to check with a real estate E
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lagent - or real estate appraiser to see what he would think. And
jmost of the houses on the north side of Hudson Place and down to
; the north of lots 19 and 21 are occupied by permanent residents
Mand the apartment would definitely bring in transients . TransientS1
;; don' t have the interest in the neighborhood that permanent people -!
,! homeowners do . Okay, that' s all I have to say.
z
gICHAIRMAN MARTIN: Excuse me , I have a question I 'm curious whether
in this history that you've accounted, you have the reservation of `
!' that land as green space ever being a firm condition to a variance ;
:! that the Board granted in the past or were there simply representa�
,, tions made that, in your understanding never. . . . j
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1MR. BOARDMAN: Well , this was proposed at a public hearing when th�
variance was asked for and I had assumed it was a condition.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright , any further questions from members of
11the Board? Thank you, Mr . Boardman.
;IMR. HINES : Can I ask a question? I 'm not trying to be argumenta- �
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;hive but what ' s the source of your information?
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4' MR. BOARDMAN: T have a copy of one letter and I have a copy of -
i let ' s see . . . . .
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lIMR. HINES : I take it you weren' t at any Planning Board meetings
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! when this was being discussed?
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!IMR. BOARDMAN: No .
'IMR. HINES : And you didn' t buy the property until some years after
;' this was done?
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jIMR. BOARDMAN: No.
MR. HINES : So what specifically is the source of the information
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!! that you have related as to this history? It may be right , but I ' c
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!; like to know what the source is .
j
!MR. BOARDMAN: Alright , this is a matter of public record. I had i
;! someone look it up for me . You made a report to the Planning BoardI
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,, and the Board of Zoning Appeals dated 1 July 1965 , if I can find
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! this in the public record here .
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,!MR. HINES : I 'm sure that the Board is more concerned with it than ;
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;II am. As long as you can identify what the source is , then they can
draw up a conclusion. II
'AR. BOARDMAN: Oh, alright. And I understand that the map that Mr .l
!D. Ferentino is in the Building Commissioner ' s office . And this
1other application of September 17 , 1966 by Mr . Dennis to Mr . Van
jiMarter then the Zoning Officer.
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MR. HINES : Those are documents that you obtained from Mr. Hoard' s
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office? s
MR. HOARD : Yes , we have the originals here.
1
MR. HINES: Okay, thank you. j
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CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there others who would like to be heard on
this case? Yes .
! RICHARD INMAN: I am Richard Inman of 106 Grandview Place , direct!
: north or it would be northwest of the property involved here . I
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Ilhave seen no drawings on this sketch of what he is building and I
would like to see those . As to what the location would be to our
siproperty - I 'd like to see those.
!i �
I,1MR. HINES : They are right in front of you. !
';MR. INMAN: In the first place, all I see is an apartment buildings
i
,built here . I see no measurements , map of dwellings surrounding its
: and if I 'm correct the way this is going to be located this is going
Tito come within 200 ' of our house downhill? This is going to create
!!,a very sever drainage problem which we already have up there on
E
,Grandview Place. It' s nothing but a mud hole and it has been since!
!Ione other dwelling was built . I don' t know whether this added to
!lit or what, but I know it ' s been worse in the past years . I know
i
he talked about building this for possible renters from Morse Chains.
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!!It ' s logical but not very probable , because I don' t think they can I
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'!afford his rent as to what he is charging right now. This area was{
,;designated as a green area and I understand the variance would have
''Ito be changed to allow to put apartment buildings in there - it ' s
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1R- 2 now for multiple dwellings - what is this going to do to the
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!;value of our property? This is going to lower it no doubt and the !
's
;'big issue - we have started to remodel our home and he wants to putt
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;!apartment buildings just up above it - drainage problems will begin'
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'lower our property value and I have the same information - some of
+the same information that Mr. Boardman has back here on what the
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t�property was designated for - that it was a recreational area. I I
;moved there some fourteen years ago and this is my understanding,
'!too - that this was supposed to be a tennis court up there and
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'{recreational area for the apartments that are now there . I don' t
j! !
'jthink this would improve our neighborhood in fact, I think it is
going to add or to depreciate our property value ,
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rIMR. WILCOX: Can you show us where your house is approximately? f
l! MR. INMAN: I 'm not even sure that Grandview Place is on there .
j (discussion took place between Mr. Wilcox and Mr. Inman
i
that wasn' t picked up on the tape . They were studying
` the map. )
' MR. INMAN: They (the apartments) definitely will border on our
I1 property.
jMR. WILCOX: Are you a member of the South Hill Civic Association? �
i
,, MR. INMAN: No I am not , but I do work for Morse Chain.
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MR. WILCOX: Have they - has the South Hill Civic Association look d
fiat this at all , do you know?
Ir
" MR. INMAN: I don' t believe they have been advised at all . Am I
": correct on that? Has the South Hill Civic Association been advise
jH
' on this?
! UNKNOWN PERSON IN THE AUDIENCE : No they have not .
dCHAIRMAN MARTIN: Questions from members of the Board? Thank you
! sir. Yes , ma' am. I
11MRS . WINTERMUTE : I am Mrs . Wintermute and I have a letter here
!! that was given to me by a man who is old - too old to attend this
, late a meeting .
'; CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Alright , I 'd be glad to read it into the record. f
! MRS. WINTERMUTE : Okay. Seven years ago we purchased a house at
11107 Grandview Place . At the time we were aware of Grandview Court ;
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Apartments . At that time apartment buildings were very short in
IlIthaca and Grandview Courts had waiting lists , they were renting
; mainly to the graduate students , the married students who were no
E
!!problems at all . Within three days after moving in I got up and
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;;found mysterious cigarette butts on my back steps the next morning.
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III was sitting out in our dinette late one night when it was quiet i
!;and someone had taken a key and raked it along the asbestoes shingles
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11of our house. These people were coming from Hudson Heights Apart-
!;
;,ments . Now, also my husband who was not really willing to believe
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Ime, was out having coffee with me in the dinette and we looked up
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and there stood a man right in our door way and my husband chased
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him up to Hudson Heights apartments and we have had - with more j
, apartment buildings going up we are getting a lower calibre of
.; tenants in that area and I am having a constant increase of traffi4
;! going through my back yard. Now where my house sets , the back yard.
,land my bedroom windows both are in the opening between Mr. Board-
!, man' s two houses . I hear the music from 2 : 00 to 3 : 00 o ' clock in i
;, the morning from the apartments . This can be a week night in the
it
;! summer, it can be a weekend you cannot get any sleep . Now that thoy
;! have put the city transit stop over on Aurora Street I 'm getting
people through my front yard. Fortunately, Donna ' s Deli on Hudson
lStreet is getting more business because last spring and last summe
III had a dirt path worn right down to my back yard. We cannot keep
( shrubs , we cannot keep trees and there is a definite drainage j
j1problem. That whole hill is shale and we had to have our gas line !
1� torn up and before the Gas $ Electric Company came to dig it up thO
sent up an engineer who made the specifications said it had to be
j, dug at a certain angle so many feet down which was not the require
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amount. It had to be filled with so many inches of gravel because
I
we would get drainage out of the shale ledges and this is what we ' e
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jibeen doing right along. When they dug it we 've had no problem witY
; water at all but if you dig right straight across the shale you are
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;! going to get drainage - it diverts the natural flow and this is the
;Ione thing I am worried about is more water and more trainsient
'.� peo le coming through my back yard. I can't possibly put up
a fenle
I
'Ito keep them out , or I 'd have six neighbors screaming at you guys
�!Ibecause it would be an eyesore . So I really, I don' t see where he !
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jhas the need for these as for income . He has enough now. 1
;! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Are there questions?
HMR. GAINEY: Are you arguing against homes in general or the mul- i
tiple? i
'! MRS. WINTERMUTE: No , I 'm not against homes , two -family or one-
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family but I am against having thirty - forty - fifty more people
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;sand we 've heard traffic problems earlier tonight but they've been
�t
nothing compared to what Aurora Street , between 3 : 00 and 5 : 00
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1o ' clock in the evening. And this would just add more traffic onto
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11that street.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Let me read for the record the letter which was
'i just submitted. This is from the Beckley' s at 201 Grandview Ave . :
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"Board of Zoning Appeals
I. Planning & Development Committee ,
Ithaca, New York 14850
j Gentlemen:
I
We , the undersigned, wish to strongly protest the proposal of
ilMr . Roger W. Dennis , 123 Coddington Road, Ithaca , N.Y. , to constru t
, a 1S-multiple dwelling unit at 17-21 Hudson Place , Ithaca.
"It is our understanding that the Hudson Place area is already ove�-
jipopulated.
d "Also , due to drainage problems in our area, we are frequently
plagued with excess water. Grandview Place , to the west of our
property, is not a city street. Consequently, any maintenance duet
, to water damage , snow removal , etc . , etc . , has to be financed by
�� the home-owners. We definitely do not need additional problems
Viand/or expenses added to those which we already are saddled with.
Extra pedestrian and vehicular travel in this area will only add
,Ito our woes.
I1 "We might also mention the fact that we in this area protested thel
.! construction of the Grandview Avenue apartment buildings in the
!Imid-40s . These , however, were built in spite of our protests . Oui
Down view of the lake and East Hill is obstructed by a two-store ,
jjfour-family unit directly in front of our home .
1 I '
j; "Please give this proposal serious thought!
I "Yours very truly,
Ii /s/ Harry B. Beckley
ii /s/ Anne C . Beckley''
�ICHAIRMAN MARTIN. Is there someone else who would like to be heard !
on this case? j
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IJQYCE INMAN: I 'm Joyce Inman from 106 Grandview Place . I just
!, wanted to add a couple of things . We are talking about two-bedroom
! dwellings - that means children. I' d like to know where they are
11going to play because there is not 200 ' from my back door up to
i
;` Hudson Heights now. The children play in the neighborhood now - it
,,! that area that he proposes to put the fifteen dwellings . I don' t j
1know where they are going to put the children and it ' s just too
!! much traffic up there. We don' t need that many more people . I 'm
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not saying anything against putting in single dwellings but where
are you going to park? That one space up there is not going to
i
! hold all of those cars for the people . So you've got to have a
I
Jplace for them to play, and you've got to have a place for people j
iito park. That' s my concern.
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11CHAIRMAN MARTIN: The question has come up about the representatio
made at earlier points about the reservation of this property as a1
green space . Mr. Hoard has the old file and some of the documents
Old like him to describe them briefly to us so that any questions
Iwe might have based on them, we can have people respond to while I
we -are still in public hearing.
1IMR. HOARD: We have here the June 1961 Zoning Ordinance for the i
';City of Ithaca which called for an apartment development district
;;which is permitted in R- 2 , R- 3 and business districts by special
�Jpermit. In this district there was a requirement for a green area ;
(;which stated that in R-2 zones at least 800 of the gross lot area
(measured on a projected horizontal plain shall be retained as a
11green area. In R- 3 and business zones at least 500 of the gross
( lot area shall be retained as a green area. The remainder of the
I1
'; lot may be used for building , parking and service areas and shall
jl
lobe known as the net lot area. It goes on to describe that what can
111be included in the green area; lawns , trees , shrubbery, garden areas ,
!'play areas , etc. Submitted at the time of the earlier variance was!
Ila set of plans - plot plans - Gregory D. Farentino was the architect .
111
It was submitted to the Board of Zoning Appeals on 12/5/66 and it
?! shows lots 17 , 19 and 21 designated as green areas , apparently to
,( satisfy this requirement and the zoning that was in effect at that !
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'iI time .
1MR. HINES : You don' t know if that was access or whether it was re-1
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;flied upon at the issuance of the permit? I
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MR. HOARD: From what the record shows we believe that this was pro-
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ivided as the required amount to satisfy the requirement .
)IMR. HINES: It wasn' t excess?
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� MR. HOARD: There is nothing that shows whether it was or not.
CHAIRMAN MARTIN: There is no other designated green space , right?
!MR. HAORD: No . There - well , mostly parking on the other parcels ,
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� a slight amount of green area here along Hudson Place, although it' s
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not marked as green area. The only place that is marked as green
area are these lots - 17 , 19 and 21 .
MR. HINES : There are other green areas - they may or may not be
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shown on that map . I think - I don' t wish to belabor because the
world isn' t going to come to an end over what we do here today, but
1� the question is that it really isn' t economically feasible to use
this consistent with the zoning ordinance aside from whatever con-
lditions may have earlier been imposed or not been imposed. And the
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inumber fifteen isn' t a particular magic number - it ' s just that
;` somewhere along the line it becomes feasible to build and below that
'Inumber it isn' t feasible to build, which will force the retention
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'! of the land in its vacant state and I think that the economic hard-
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ship and practical difficulty of developing this really is why we
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; are here. If we 've been precluded from doing anything there by vi -
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tue of a previous determination or the issuance of a permit which
i�precludes any use whatsoever. I 'm not prepared to meet that because
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�! I don' t know what the situation was at the time . He may be right ,
whatever the records show, obvious you have a better reflection of
the facts than anything I can say.
! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Okay, is there anything else that we should add
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,'Ito the record and the information before the Board on this case be-
Afore wego into executive session to hear all the . . . .
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,VOICE FROM THE AUDIENCE : Aren' t you in receipt of a letter from M .
;!VanTienhoven? He was unable to come tonight, but he did send a
letter.
A
ii CHAIRMAN MARTIN: It has just been pushed in front of my nose . I
IEwill read it.
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"Board of Zoning Appeals i
! City Hall
;; Green Street
Ithaca, New York 14850
"Dear Mr. Chairman,
j "At last Monday' s (Fehr. 27, 1978) meeting the Planning $ Develop-
ment Board denied Appeal 1195 by Mr. Dennis requesting use and are
livariances for the construction of fifteen units of housing on pre-
mises at 17 through 21 Hudson Place .
"I cannot be present at the Zoning Appeals Board Meeting because o
;; previous engagements and am, therefore , addressing myself to you with
:! this letter. I am asking that you confirm the denial of variance . ,
iIMy request is based on the following considerations :
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1 . Lots 13 and 17 were designated for use as a recreation area i
iia letter of Sept. 14 , 1966 by Mr. W. E. Dennis to Mr. C. M. VanMar er
j; Zoning Officer . Later Lots 17 , 19 , and 21 were designated at a
-public hearing of either the Planning Board or the BZA as green i
( areas . This was confirmed on the drawings submitted by the archi-
tect Ferrentino of Syracuse .
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'"'The fact that these areas were not made green areas is the fault
`lof Mr. W. E. Dennis and others who may have owned the Hudson Heights
j�Apartments on Hudson Place subsequently. The fact that neither the
!occupants of the apartments nor the owners of nearby properties hate
! complained and insisted on the development of these areas in true
:' green areas is probably partly a reflection on the lack of faith some
11of us have in the enforcement of such type of agreements .
d "However , as much as we may be at fault for not having insisted
!;upon the enforcement of this agreement, it can not be a valid excuse
dfor Mr. Dennis (the present owner of the Hudson Heights Apartments
1iand lots 17-21) for stating that these lots do not yiel him any
;money and that they are simply vacant lots . ,
2 . If I understand the regulations , Mr . Dennis needs to show, amo�g
Mother things , that these lots can not be used for anything else but
,building lots for apartments. It appears to me that the fact that ,
1these lots (by agreements listed before) ought to be recreation or
green areas is prima-facie evidence that they do have other (and
jbetter! ) and already designated uses . j
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j"3. It is my understanding that the appellant needs to show that
lithe building of these apartments and their subsequent use will not
:!cause deterioration of the neighborhood. It is not difficult to sh w
; that such deterioration will occur because :
a) in the future this area including the residential area
of Hudson Place (1-15 will be rezoned as R- 3 instead ofd
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R-2a because of the apartments ; f
if "b) there will be increased noise and traffic on Hudson Plac ;
"c) there will be a problem with water drainage into Grand- I
view Place because of increased nonwater-absorbing sur-
;+ faces , such as houses , parking lots , etc . Grandview Pla e
I' already has problems with too much water.
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it"The argument used by Mr. Dennis that he bought these lots and lose
!;money on them when they remain vacant lots is clearly irrelevant .
;;The lots were, after 1966 , not meant to be money making properties .
!':They were part and parcel of Hudson Heights and were - because of t ei
';designation as green or recreation area - reasons that permission w s
;'given to build the Hudson Heights Apartments . The money to pay for
j�whatever costs are attached to lots 17-21 needs to come from whatev r
profits are made on the apartments .
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111I trust that the reasons are sufficient to confirm the denial . I
! would also appreciate if the BZA were to emphasize that agreements
! made need to be kept and that somebody (the Building Commissioner?)
;;needs to enforce these agreements and other regulations .
'i"Sincerely yours , I
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Ii/s/ A. vanTienhoven
11A. vanTienhoven" j
Icc: A. Boardman
iI R. Wanner
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MR. HINES: You know there are rules of evidence that we disregard
Iyrobably for a very good reason - we get through faster we think but
Sithe fact is that all this stuff goes in and people really don' t know
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;,the factual basis - for what they say. Mr . Glover of Syracuse deve-
M oped this project. Mr. Glover didn' t own these three lots , never
s
11did own these three lots , Mr. Dennis owned them. Mr. Dennis manage
;Hudson Heights . The property was bought last summer from Mr. Glove
111by Roger Dennis who stands beside me . A lot of the things that get
;!said here - the people really don' t know what they are talking about
! but there may be some basis in what the planning Board - when they
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liissued the permit before when you read letters from Mr . VanTienho en
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Nand hear these other people talk, it ' s conceivable - now without cross
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;;examination, they really don' t know some of the things they are talk-
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Ijing about . I
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!CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Mr. Hines , the Board understands that since the
{Board holds hearings of this kind every month, in which lots of
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ipeople speak and in which we do not adhere to the strict rules of
iievidence so that we know that we have to . . . .
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MR. HINES : Listen, it ' s the truth we seek. . .
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! CHAIRMAN MARTIN: Exactly, and it is sometimes very difficult . Yes`.
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; MRS . WINTERMUTE: Isn' t it up to the developer to first check into
!the zoning of the land that he is purchasing and if he made a bad
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!!purchase then that' s a bad investment? i
,
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{:` CHAIRMAN MARTIN: The question is - is one that makes a point and it
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.his consistent with past decisions of the Board that we do not see
;; our role as baling people out of decisions - bad business decision
( they made in acquiring property. I think that answers your ques-
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1 tion. Is there anyone else who has material to add before we begiri
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;Ito deliberate on these cases? I would ask if someone representing
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� Mr . Long has shown up? Stewart Avenue property? Alright, then we
,, will not hear that case and we will now go into executive session.
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HI will have to ask that all of you leave or at least get beyond th
H
door and those of you who want to wait around are welcome to do so .
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BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
CITY OF ITHACA
March 7 , 1978
Ii
ji EXECUTIVE SESSION
;
( APPEAL NO. 1195 :
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j CHAIRMAN MARTIN: I will move that the use and area
variances requested in Case 1195 be
denied.
iMR. WILCOX: I second the motion.
; FINDINGS OF FACT: 1) The three lots in question, according
to documents in the files of the
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j Building Commissioner ' s office were
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relied upon in 1966 to support plans
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Ij for the apartment development under
'! BZA Case No . 640 for Hudson Heights
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Apartments at 125 Coddington Road.
2) Those apartments and the three lots i
,i in question were then and are again nlow
in the same ownership . The Board,
'! therefore , does not look at those lots
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alone in considering the question of j
hardship . Viewing those lots together
with the apartments , it sees no show-1
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ing that the variance is required in
order to prevent hardship . In addition,
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testimony presented indicated that j
i= those apartments would add considerable
density and a likelihood of drainage
if -
problems in a neighborhood in which
these factors are already a problem.
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APPEAL NO. 1195 (continued)
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FINDING OF FACT : 3) During the recent residential rezoni g
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I the Common Council did rezone the pr p-
erties on which the apartment develo -
ments existed as R- 3 but did not zon
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f these lots for apartments .
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VOTE : 5 Yes ; 0 No .
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j Use and Area Variance denied.
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- 100
II , Barbara Ruane , Do Certify that I took the minutes of the Board
! of Zoning Appeals , City of Ithaca, in the matters of Appeals
'` Numbered 1190 , 1191 , 1192 , 1193 , 3-1-78 , 1194 , 1195 on March 7,
'I
,11978 at City Hall , City of Ithaca, New York ; that I have trans -
cribed same , and the foregoing is a true copy of the transcript
Rjof the minutes of the meeting and the Executive Session of the
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Board of Zoning Appeals , City of Ithaca , on the above date , and j
M the whole thereof to the best of my ability.
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,
Barbara C. Ruane !
Recording Secretar
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lSworn to before me this
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�� 2y day of , 1978 .
ti�I i
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jNotary Public I
j F;TT-,AA7N rr+:1)•;jNT
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l i Notary ub"p, S ..te of New York
223 i
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Cf
ounty
Xpi..� Mari 34, 19 d
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