HomeMy WebLinkAboutCAC Minutes - 08_27_18Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council Minutes Page 1 of 10
Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council
Minutes of monthly meeting on Monday, August 27, 2018
Danby Town Hall, 1830 Danby Road, Danby, New York.
Council Members present: Matt Ulinski (chair), Joel Gagnon, Don
Schaufler , Clare Fewtrell, Ruth Sherman
Council Members absent: Mary Woodsen, Bill Evans
Others present: Elizabeth Keokosky (secretary), C.J. Randall (Danby
Town Planner), Ronda Roaring (Danby resident), Bill Keokosky (Danby
Resident), George Adams (Danby Resident and member of CAC
subcommittee considering changes in logging regulations), Camille
Doucet (Danby resident), Scott Davis (Danby Planning Board member
who is also on CAC subcommittee above – came in after 8:30)
Meeting opened at 7:05 pm
Agenda Review (Additions or Deletions) - Randall’s presentation of
GIS maps of Natural Resource Index (NRI) was put first on agenda, to be
followed by Reports and Updates, and then rest of Action items.
Public Comments/Privilege of the Floor (later referred to as PoF)
Logging comments were put off till the topic was discussed. No other
comments.
Reading and Discussion of previous Minutes
• Required addition of SWPPP acronym definition (Storm Water
Pollution Prevention Plan) and more accurate description of
Bruce Richards experience and current professional connection to
logging industry vis-a-vis discussion of logging ordinance.
Secretary will contact him (After_Note: Wagner lumber reported
his title there is “Head Coach” of Wagner Lumber – he was
originally hired by them in 1990 and has extensive experience)
Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council Minutes Page 2 of 10
Approve Minutes MOTION
• Moved that CAC approves the minutes of July 23, 2018.
• Moved by Gagnon, Seconded by Ulinski. The motion passed.
• In Favor: Matt Ulinski (chair), Joel Gagnon, Don Schaufler , Clare
Fewtrell
• Abstained: Ruth Sherman
Action Item - Presentation of GIS maps from Natural Resource
Inventory (NRI)
C.J. gave an illustrated discussion of the ArcGIS NRI mapping for Danby
using projector to display 20 separate .jpg images extracted from the 20
layers. All geology information is from USGS Data mapped in 2016.
• In response to the question of who was audience for this data,
Randall replied that the main purpose is to allow Planning Board
have a more in-depth view of a property in question and to
provide a legal basis for environmental determinations.
Conservation Advisory Council (CAC) would work with the NRI
(as would Randall and Paul Hansen) and be the vehicle to do
background research on parcels for Randal who would take
information to the Planning Board. The purpose of changing CAC
meeting time to before, not after, the Planning Board meeting time
is to allow this to happen. Information contained in the NRI
supplements CAC member knowledge and provides factual data to
support conservation related decisions.
• Another audience who might be interested are citizens interested
in characteristics of their property, and one suggested way of
letting people know the availability of this resource is to hang
plotter prints of maps around town hall walls.
• NRI’s other major contribution is to help determine projects and
get money for them, especially from Federal government and NY
State. As C.J. says, “Sky’s the limit on this.”
• Drill down for in-depth information is only available from on-line
database
• The maps shown include:
o Surface Hydrology – Danby is on continental divide between
two watersheds: Lake Ontario and Chesapeake Bay (which
Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council Minutes Page 3 of 10
also means we have greater cache to apply for federal
grants)
o Streams and Water Bodies
o Rare Species Habitat Suitability – greatest concentrations -
includes both flora and fauna
o Bedrock Geology
o Hillshade Gradients – topology
o Habitat and Wildlife – from State natural resources and
Audubon breeding list
o Farmland Classification
o Hydric Soils
o 2015 Digital Orthographic image – photo of town of Danby
o Slope – useful to determine steep slopes that need more
protection
o Soil Drainage - drainage classification needs clarification
o Soil types – question about lack of classification for “Danby
clay”
o Surficial Geology – comment that color choice here gave
better visual contrast to categories
o Topography – one lump category at high end (in feet or
meters?)
o Woodlands
o Land Use
o Private and Public Forestland – does not include Finger
Lakes Land Trust parcels – which are not published
o Cultural Resources – such as views, etc. (though the value
of some of these views was questioned)
o Unique Natural Area (UNA- designated by Tompkins
County)
o Nature Preserves and Conservation easements
Comments:
• PoF:Adams asked how can UNA be used? Randall responded
that it can be used to determine best habitat connectivity and
conservation easements to most aggressively pursue. UNA are
assigned by Tompkins County, but the town has to decide how
to use them.
Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council Minutes Page 4 of 10
• C.J. spoke of county having a pot of money, which we can use
with NRI for easements, land and stream protection, habitat
protection using capital improvement money. PoF: Roaring
reminded her that much county money is temporary and not
long term. Capital Improvement money is from Strategic
Tourism Planning Board (STPB). Randall agreed and said that
FEMA and the Army Corp of Engineers were updating flood
insurance data for the southern part of Cayuga lake right now
and so the money was going to “upstream” projects. The more
long-term money was from State and Federal sources.
After_Note 1: Strategic Tourism Planning Board (STPB) is an
outdoor recreation plan to promote Tompkins County as a
premier recreational destination.
After_Note 2: Randall added later that another program, the
Natural Infrastructure Program is a Tompkins County Planning
& Sustainability Department Capital Program pot of $ running
through 2022. Those funds are committed long-term so not all
“county money is temporary.” Please see page 6 of the 2018
County Budget for more info. That said, Ronda is correct that
STPB has $, and that it’s typically temporary, but that STPB $ is
not Capital Improvement funding.
• Presentation was received with favorable reactions from
members of CAC and next steps discussed: Next step is to have
Town Board adopt NRI as an official document and CAC can
petition Town Board to become an advisory board instead of an
advisory council – which would carry much more weight. Then
CAC would receive the same prepared packets that the Planning
Board gets to make planning decisions and could contribute to
these decisions from a conservation point of view. Alternatively,
CAC could remain a council and use NRI information to prioritize
properties for approaching their owners about adding additional
protection from development by donating conservation
easements they wanted to pursue. This would not leave them out
of the loop entirely with the Planning board and they still could
make recommendations since the new meeting time better
situates them to preview materials before the Planning Board
meets.
Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council Minutes Page 5 of 10
Reports and Updates
• Town Management Plans: still waiting on information and work
from committee members, Schaufler and Gagnon
• Series of presentations on “Alternative Income from Land”: Date
has now been set for first presentation on Thursday September
13th for CCE Educator, Monika Roth to give an overview, to be
followed in October by Steve Gabriel (website
https://fingerlakespermaculture.org/tag/steve-gabriel/ ) on
forest farming. Arranged by Schaufler and secretary Keokosky.
Fewtrell suggested having it on different days of the week to allow
people not available some days the possibility of attending.
PoF:Roaring suggested videotaping it for people who missed it.
Suggested trying Park School at IC. Keokosky said she would try
calling.
• Finalize permanent CAC meeting change for a different day-of-
the-month: better facilitate giving C.J. Planning Board related
conservation analysis to work with before Planning Board meets
(3rd Thursday). New meeting time will be second Tuesday of the
month starting in October. Will start on Oct 9 since September’s
date already announced in newsletter. September’s meeting will
be at normal date on 4th Monday.
• Possible conservation easement with Auto Salvage of Ithaca on
Hornbrook Rd. --This item will be dropped since the owners are
not interested at this time.
Additional Action Items
1. Continued discussion of status of logging regulation in response to
Deputron Hollow Road logging this past winter and early spring.
• (During discussion Chairman Ulinski distributed a letter sent
to town supervisor Dietrich and CCing CAC from the New York
Central Chapter of the Society of American Foresters (SAF)
Members concerning the problems Danby is having coming up
with legislation for dealing with logging damage caused by
poor contractors. They also invited the group to see a recently
completed timber harvest to see best management practices.)
Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council Minutes Page 6 of 10
After_note 1: SAF mention in the letter that there is an existing
way to close a road that Danby could have utilized on Deputron
Hollow Rd in current NY Highway laws. (See
https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/highway-law/hay-sect-104.html )
After_note 2: Gagnon notes that we were aware of it, but our
right to farm law exempted agricultural activity, including
logging, from that law as well.
• PoF: Adams reported on status of the site, which is the same,
still scattered with piles of residual logs on the side of the road
and the staging site. The road is badly eroded with the recent
rains. The logs block the repair of the road since they have
become embedded and are holding the roadside in place.
Ulinski noted that the contractor, Santos Oliver, will not be
cleaning up since he was arrested in violation of parole with
drug charges while Adams added that he was also is in the
hospital as the result of a car accident. He added that cleanup
is many thousands of dollars and it is now time to contact the
landowner. Who is going to remedy this? Ulinski: Town
contacted property owner once at the start of this logging
episode but not since.
• PoF: Doucet said that she had talked to Highway
Superintendent Carl Seamon and he said that repairs to the
road will probably be put off till next year. She wanted to
know who would pay for the repairs – the taxpayers or the
landowner? Ulinski said Laura Shawley, assistant to Highway
Supervisor, had said the Highway department was waiting for
contact from Santos. Question raised about getting in touch
with town attorney.
• What followed was some discussion on how to proceed with
property owner, St John, with every option brought forward
from negotiating with him to donate land (37 acres), to town
assuming ownership of land, to having him pay damages, to
advantages of continued collection of taxes with his continued
ownership. The site does have value for the town since it is
adjacent to already owned town property, is in an area of
Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council Minutes Page 7 of 10
already established easements, and is in a location previously
identified as containing a unique natural area (UNA). General
consensus was that a dialog with owner is next step
o Site is a mess with degraded property. Ulinski: Start
dialog based on what he has done with his property. He’ll
never be able to sell it – he’ll just have to sit on it.
Gagnon – he could sell it tomorrow (he just wouldn’t get
much for it). Ulinski – whole other dimension created
with Santos out of commission.
o Question asked whether we could we use energy of
dissatisfied neighborhood people to help clean up. PoF:
Adams remarked that is “Hardhat territory”. Fewtrell:
need owner to get done as much as we can. Gagnon:
People would be more enthusiastic about making it
pretty if town owned it. Question reiterated - who is
going to pay for cleanup? Ulinski: Town does not have a
strategy for purchasing land. Question: Is this a strategic
area? Alternatively would owner donate it to town.
Gagnon: Is any of wood good for firewood? Response:
It’s covered with mud.
o PoF: Roaring reported that she had been to Miller’s and
according to the survey of St. John property the
boundary line is very questionable about whether he
actually owns it. Original parcel never sold and town still
owns it. Ulinski – not Palmer property, but Roaring
responded that this property is in question too. Covers
14 acres in NW corner. Ulinski: going to collect more
information and get in touch with St. John. Next step:
Matt will be touch with Supervisor Dietrich and see
how to proceed with contacting owner.
• Sherman: logging is happening on Trevor Rd and that is a
seasonal road. PoF: Roaring - that is State Land (and being
done with best practices)
• Gagnon – need advice on most reasonable stick. Ulinski said
Town Board working on 3 things:
Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council Minutes Page 8 of 10
1. amend local road laws to eliminate logging
exemption. (passed around SAF letter)
2. requiring a notification process - if you don’t
there is a penalty. At this time give packet of
information on best forestry management
practices.
3. Establishing a threshold when logger needs
more specific plans using a Storm Water
Pollution Prevention Plan (SWPPP) as stick (go
back to SAF for threshold recommendations) or
series of thresholds. SWPPP is legally binding –
comes from EPA and Clean Water act. DEC or
Soil and Water responsible for checking.
• PoF:Roaring said there is a decibel limit noise limit set at 90
decibels which could be used on trucks. Ulinski said that
sound meter doesn’t carry the weight of law. Not accurate
enough.
• Ulinski said to require town notification from loggers would
necessitate a town board decision and a public hearing and
then voting on a resolution. Question: Does this affect every
person who cuts a tree? Ulinski: Not oriented to firewood
cutting. Main goal is to affect commercial logging.
• Ulinski said (Next step) he would have CAC subcommittee
(on logging) meet and put some language together. Then
run it through CJ. Public hearing has to be announced a month
before. The Board is all for it; the public is where the
discussion is.
• PoF : Keokosky(husband of Secretary in audience) said he had
talked to state land loggers who had issued an invitation to go
to SAF Logging operation. (SAF letter repeated this) Ulinski
enthusiastically agreed to this. Scope, scale and size of
cleanup is very considerable and going to required big
equipment. Again question asked how is this going to be done?
Deputron Hollow Rd was scheduled for a re-grading but been
put off – perhaps because logs in the way.
Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council Minutes Page 9 of 10
• PoF: Scott says he had his property logged with horses – much
less intrusive.
• Fewtrell was concerned with administration of these new
rules. Is telling a person they need a SWPPP a CAC job? Who
do they notify? POF: Davis - Having an ordinance does not
mean we are in the enforcement business. Fewtrell concerned
with complexity of ordinance. Wants something “sensible”.
Gagnon: If we are the issuing authority we need a specific
trigger built into notification policy. SWPPP requires
engineer (see June and July 2018 meeting minutes). Gagnon:
Slopes should require a more detailed plan. If it is expensive,
people might think twice of logging there, which would be OK
• Ulinski: disappointed in SAF Letter which does not take into
consideration what effects logging has on town. It is more
concerned what effects town has on logging. SAF is a
professional organization of foresters. Ulinski: Next step:
(CAC) will draft a letter to SAF for feedback on what
circumstances they think should initiate a SWPPP. Group
agreed.
Other Items:
2. In response to ongoing plans for a neighborhood party to work on
easements, Ulinski said he unable to have a neighbor barbecue since his
kitchen has been in a state of construction for past month. People
suggested perhaps a late fall potluck kickoff event for NRI.
3. Gagnon: Further discussions with Mary Wimsatt focus on tax
questions. Is sister in position to take advantage of tax credits? Wants
a little time to get back to Joel. Sister shares same conservation values.
Committeed but still looking for best path forward.
4. Ulinski checked in with group for an ongoing easement: What are
the last steps in closing?
• Both parties agree
• Town Lawyer reviews it
• Town board votes to accept it – preceded by public hearing
Town of Danby Conservation Advisory Council Minutes Page 10 of 10
• Town Supervisor signs on behalf of the town. (signing
ceremony)
Next Meeting is on September 24, 2018 at 7p.m.
Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 9:05 pm
_____________________________________________
Submitted by Elizabeth Keokosky (Secretary)