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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-CAC-1974PROCEEDINGS OF TFIE ENVIRONMiTAL COMMISSION Regular Meeting PRESENT: Voting Members: NOR MEMBERS OATH OF OFFICE 7:30 P.M. Lawrence Bach - Chairman Vincent Giordano Joy Daley Alderman Nancy Meyer Michael Hall Timothy Ray April 16, 1974 Michael Ball and Timothy Ray took the Oath of Office and were seated on the Commission. ELECTION OF OFFICEPS Chairman Bach asked for nominations from the floor for Chairman and Vice Chairman. By Nancy Meyer seconded by Vincent Giordano, RESOLVED, That Joy Daley be nominated for Chairman. By Joy Daley seconded by Vincent Giordano, RESOLVED, That Nancy Meyer be nominated for Vice Chairman. By Michael Hall seconded by Timothy Pay, RESOLVED, That the nominations be closed and that the Secretary cast one vote for the nominees. Carried COMMUNICATIONS Chairman Bach read a letter from Commissioner James L. Biggane: February 22, 1974 Dear Mr. Bach: Since the Department of Environmental Conservation was formed during 1970, the local conservation commission program has grown to include 760 city, town, and village commissions and 27 county and regional environmental management councils. The success of the program is giving rise to forecasts of increased financial support from the legislature this session. These are strong indications that conservation commissions have achieved consid- erable stature within a very short time. As the State's new Commissioner of Environmental Conservation, I want to express my appreciation for the many accomplishments that have been made, and also to assure you of my support during the time ahead. So that the Department can keep in closer touch with the activities of the Commissions, I have asked out regional offices to assist you even more than they have in the past. Our nine regional directors will now be handling many of the communications that have been coming to you from the Department's headquarters in Albany, In addition, where state aid and reimburseua,nt are concerned, including cooperative projects, the necessary applications will be reviewed and approved at the regional level rather than in Albany, thus ensuring on our part a more responsive effort to meet your needs. And, of course, the regional offices will continue to offer all possible technical assistance in your programs. I hope you will feel frae to call on our Director for Region 7, William Hicks, or his community relations representative Carol Meusgeier, for any help you might need. They can be reached at 100 Elwood Davis Road, Syracuse, New York 13212, telephone (315) 473 -8301. Sincerely, J. L. Biggme Commissioner April 16, 1974 Chairman Bach read a letter from Cornell University° April 3, 1974 Mayor Edward Conley City Ball Ithaca, New York 14850 Dera Mayor Conley: In the last two years Cornell Universtty has been operating a recycling program which recycles glass and paper. An integral and very important part in our program is Ithaca Scrap Processors. Ithaca Scrap Processors collects all of our paper and glass so that they may be sold to those mills who recycle these materials. Without Ithaca Scrap Processors, or an equivalent operation in the city, the Cornell recycling program would no doubt come to an end. This would be a tragic event, especially in a period of time whien the general public is becoming more aware of the need to conserve its resources. Mrs. Weber, the owner of Ithaca Scrap Processors, appears to be very civic minded and a person dedicated to conserving our natural resources, including the public landscape. She has stated a willingness to comply with the zoning ordinances and fire codes if given the tine to do so. Any assistance that your office could provide that would enable Ithaca Scrap Processors to be given time to comply with these regulations would be very much appreciated by those of us at Cornell concerned with the recycling progran. Thank you in advance for your assistance with regard to this matter. Sincerely, R2,-chard T. Fauntleroy Administrative Aide cc: Building Commissioner Board of Zoning Appeals Planning Board Environmental Commission Board of Appeals, Fire Codes By Nancy Meyer seconded by Joy Daley RESOLVED, That this letter be referred to the Common Council's Charter and Ordinance Committee. Carried Unanimously EIIVIRONIMMAL MAr1AGEME�?T COUNCIL APPOINTIMIT Chairman Bach appointed Timothy Ray to represent the Invironmental Commission. NYSACC HEI38ERSHIP By Timothy Ray seconded by Joy Daley, RESOLVEED, That the Environmental Commission of the City of Ithaca appropriates $50.00 for a municipal membership in the Mew York State Association of Conserva- tion Commissions. Carried Unanimously A?INUAL REPORT ACCEPTANCE By Nancy Meyer seconded by Joy Daley, RESOLVED, That the Annual Report for 1973 as submitted by Chairman Bach be accepted.- (See copy attached to minutes) Carried Unanimously RECYCLI;IG PROGRAMS 'fancy Heyer reported on the progress of the recycling programs to date. GOALS kM CURRENT ISSUES A list of goals and current issues was suggested as follows: 1. Reaffirms direction given by Council given in the orginal formation. -3- April 16, 1974 2. Continued surveillance of the Cass Park developments. 3. Support of recycling efforts on part of the City and /or private groups. 4. Exploration and possible development of Rikeways. S. Support and interest in Hass Transit. 6. Sewage Treatment and quality of lake water. 7. Air pollution S. Support of tree replacement. 9. Bottle legislation. 19. Concern for reuse of Stewart Park for swimmin -,. 11. Citizen use of all natural resources. ST171ART PARK SWITRII ?G. By Vincent Giordano seconded by Timothy Rays P.ESOLVED, That the City of Ithaca Environmental Commission go on record of favor- ing Commissioner Clynes resolution to restore swi:-.ning at Stewart Park. ICE, SKATING Nancy Meyer suggested exploring the possibility of ice skating on the flood control channel and other outdoor areas. RESOLUTIGN OF APPRECIATION By Vincent Giordano seconded by T4ichael Hall, RESOLVED,, That Challenge Industries, Kiwanis Club and all other citizens and agencies involved in recycling be commended for their efforts. BI..XETaAY P%CSENTATIOF? By Nancy Meyer seconded by Joy Daley, RESOLVED, That Mike ?call prepare a presentation in open form for the May 21, 1174, meeting on the whole concept of Bikeways and that in his presentation he contact both the Finger Lakes State Parks Commission and the Ithaca City Planning Dept. and other interested groups working on Bikeways. Carried ENVIROMMKITAL EDUCATION CAMP. By Vincent Giordano seconded by Michael Hall, RESOLVED, That the Environmental Commission of the City of Ithaca appropriates $60.00 to send a boy to the Environmental Education Camp. On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 9o15 P.?i. Carried Unanimously j- J ph A. Rundle, City Clerk PROCEEDINGS OF THE EiIVIRO ? !MB1TAL COnIISSION Regular Meeting 7:30 P.M. May 21, 1974 PRESENT: Voting Hembers: Joy Daley - Chairman Alderman Nancy Meyer - Vice Chairman Lawrence Bach Vincent Giordano Tlichael Hall Ex- Officio Member - Anne Jones ABSENT: Voting Member- Timothy Ray OTHERS PRESENT: H. Hatthys Van Cort - Director of Planning INUTES. Joy Daley reported that an error was made by the City Clerk in re- cording the.Environmental Education Camp Resolution. The resolution should read: RESOLVED, That Vincent Giordano look into the possibility of securing the necessary funds from private groups ($60.00) to send a boy to the Environmental Education Camp. By Lawrence Bach: seconded by Michael hall, RESOLVED, That the minutes of the April 16, 1974 meeting be approved as corrected. REPORT O'i7 ENVIROWENTAL CALHP Vincent Giordano reported that h to see if they would sponsor a b thought that it was a wonderful Board meeting for approval. Mr. deadline and it would be to late suggested that this be placed on AINNUAL BUDGET carried Poproached two fraternal organizations �y. Mr. Giordano said that the organizations dea, but they would have to take it to their Giordano said this fell beyond the May 1, to send a boy to camp this year. Mr. Giordano the agenda and that it be pursued next year. City Clerk Rundle reported that Common Council passed the Annual Budget May 1, and reduced the Environmental Commissions allocation to $50.00 from a request of $300.00. The resolution of April 16, 1974 to join the New York State Association of Conservation Commissions for $50.00'will use up the entire budget for 1974. The clerk also pointed out that in order to pay for this membership, the Environmental Commission will have to request the Common Council's Budget and Administration Committee to transfer $50.00 from account A -4090 310 Office Supplies to 436 Dues, Memberships and Publications. By Vincent Giordano: seconded by Aancy Meyer, RESOLVED, That the payment for membership to the New York State Association of Conservation Commissions be cancelled. AYES - (1) Giordano NAYS - (4) Hall, Daley, Bach, Neyer Aiotion Defeated -2- `:ay 21, 1974 2y Nancy Meyer; seconded by Vincent Giordano, RESOLVED, That the Environmental Commission request Council for $50.00 to pay for membership in -Jew York State Association of Conservation Commmissions leaving a balance of $50.00 in case any small amounts are needed. Carried REPORT ON PAPER RECYCLING Nancy I4eyer gave a progress report on the paper recycling; program in the co-mun i ty . REPORT Oil SOUTH HILL PAPER DRIVE Fancy 11eyer reported that 1500 lbs. of paper was collected in a two week period. REPORT FROM AREA BEAUTIFICATION COUNCIL TP.EE COMMITTEE I4r. Van Cort remarked that seven meetings have been held and the committee is in the process of preparin a tree survey forri. The form will be tested and if successful, the whole city will be surveyed and all street trees will be cataloged as to species, size, etc. This will give an updated inventory and can rationally go about the business of replanting Ithaca because of all the Elm trees thy*_ have been lost. Mr. Van Cort remarked that voluntary groups would probe_. -y be used to conduct the tree survey. LALL RESOLUTION By Vincent Giordano seconded by Nancy Meyer, RESOLVED, That the Environmental Commission go on record urging the Board of Public Works and CoL -neon Council to accept the bid for tha Ball, and to proceed with construction. Carried Unanimously BII:E WAYS PRESENTATION Mike Hall gave an excellent bike ways presentation using a map and slides to shaa the potential the Ithaca area has in developing a bike way. After the presentation an open discussion took place on the floor. By Vincent Giordano seconded by Lawrence Bach, I?:I'SOLVED, That the City of Ithaca Environmental Commissions absolutely backs the idea of proposed bike ways in Ithaca and surroundinry areas and will do everything in its utmost power to help such bike ways become a reality, &4D FURTHER RESOLVED, That Bike Hall be appointed Chairruan of the Bice Way Committee and give him the permission to enlist the aid of a group of local citizens that are interested to help promote a bike way system. Carried Unanimously On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 9<10) P.M. J �eph, A. Rundle, City Clerk PROCEEDINGS r-' THE ENVIRONIMENTAL COISIISSION REGULAR MEETING 7:30 P.M. July 7.6, 1974 PRESENT: Joy Daley, Chairman Alderman Nancy 111eyer Michael Hall Timothy Ray Vincent Giordano ABSENT: Lawrence Bach OTHERS PRESENT: Alderman John.Gutenberger itrs. Legrace Benson PAPER COLLECTION: Alderman Meyer gave a report of paper collection. Alderman 'Meyer reported that the Planning and Development Committee has met with the Department of Public Works and at this point they talked about who might be interested in the collection of paper in the City. Alderman Meyer reported that Mr. Irving has looked into it and there are people in the City who are interested. Alderman Beyer stated that they haven't met again as a committee. Alderman Meyer said that she thinks that because of the economic complications she is going to recommend that a system be set up for mandatory separation and possibly licensing private carters, sort of a scavenger license. Alderman Meyer reported that it is just a suggestion, that the Planning and Development Committee has to hear it and the Department has to hear it. BIKEWAYS: :4ike Hall reported on the Bikeways in the City. Mike Hall stated that the Bike Committee has met since the last meeting of Environmental Commission with the Planning Department and all the volunteer help as well as the Ithaca Planning Department was present at the meeting. TUke Hall reported that the Bike Committee had decided.to continue to look at the subject of bikeways this summer and continue with publicity, but that this Fall they would enlist the help of a planning class at Cornell to study the needs of cyclists in Ithaca with the idea of coming up with a well thought out plan so that a pitfall wouldn't be run in to. Mr. Hall stated that the Bike Committee wants to set up bikeways of the class 3 level, which are bikeways that are marked along the roadways to warn motorists and to act as guides so that cyclists will have routes to follow. Also a class 1 which will run to Cass Park. Mike Hall reported that the Bike Committee will meet again in August but that the next important thing that will happen will be the class picking it up and finding out what the needs are. Mike Hall stated that a proposal will be drawn up and can be referred to Common Council to ask for funds and then possibly start next Spring. ir. Hall also stated that in the next few years he hopes to see Bikeways between all the state parks, and now the State is getting interested in it, because there is so much local support. COiJDITY BOARD: Timothy Ray reported that he has been working with I,4x. Cary who is on the County Board regarding bikeways. IZr. Ray stated that they have researched into who owns the Lehigh Valley Railway as far as up to Geneva which is the Cass Park bedway. Mr. Ray said that it is owned by N. Y. S. E. & G. all the way up to Geneva who bought it in 1960. :11r. Ray said that about after 2 miles out of town there is nothing on the bedway all the way up to Geneva, it is used for nothing. Air. Ray said there is also the old Lackawana that goes south out of Ithaca and goes down toward Owego, it goes all the way to Caroline with nothing on it. Mr. Ray said that in speaking to Mr. Cary some of the problems that have arose have been quite extensive with the people complaining about motorcycles and snowmobiles. 1,1r. Ray said that using the railway for recreational purposes, such as biking, hiking, etc. 111r. Cary is very interested to go to the State with this. 14r. Ray reported that he will now get together with Mr. Hall and his committee. ENVIRON'�EWTAL CAI ,T: No report ANNUAL BUDGET: Alderman Meyer reported that Common Council did allocate another $50.00 for the Environmental Commission. Alderman Meyer reported that they do have the dues paid now to the New York State Association of Conservation Commissions and still have $50.00 if the Committee wants to do any mailing or such, they now have some financial backing. -2- July 16, 1974 NEW YORK STATE ELECTRIC AND GAS COAL PLANT 11r. Bach was not present to give a report, however 74r. Ray stated that speaking with Mr. Cary, that they were looking over the impact statement that was put together regarding the plant and it seems that when the State and Federal regulations were put through, it seems that everybody and their friend gets a copy of the impact statement, but it is surprisinyr that the City of Ithaca gets none. Mr. Ray said that Mr. Cary had told him that 5 tons of impact statements were printed up and distributed in the State to certain people. There was a discussion regarding the bonding of money from New York State Electric and Gas. By Alderman Meyer: seconded by Mike Hall RESOLVED, That Common Council investigate the funds available for studying the impact of the New York State Electric and Gas Plant. Motion Defeated NEW BUSINESS BOTTLE LEGISLATION Mrs. Daley introduced 117r. John P4cClain who gave a discussion on Bottle Legislation. I -fr. AcClain introduced himself to the Commission, as a Professor at Cornell in the Business School, and he is also in the group which calls itself the Tompkins County Citizens Committee for Returnable Beverage Containers. . "4r. McClain stated that two participants would speak at the meetinry, they were: Carol Killian and Forest Golden. Carol `a llian gave a Slide presentation on bottle legislation. Carol Killian stated that an average family consumes 1,646 bottles or cans of beer and carbonated soft drinks each year. The `I'omnkins County consumers are buying most of their beverages in non - returnable bottles and cans. Carol Killian reported that if non - returnables were outlawed the average family would save $44.00 per year in beverage purchases. This means that the consumers in Tompkins County could save at least $800,000 per year. Carol. Killian said that other costs are also involved, those being: litter clean -up, solid waste disposal, energy use, and use of ral -y materials. Save energy by putting the beer back in refillable deposit containers. Each time an aluminum can is produced 12 kilowat of energy more than that required to produce a returnable bottle, which is the same as burning a 100 watt lightbulb for five hours. Massive industry efforts to encourage recycling centers for glass and cans are generally failing. Recycling beverage containers is neither practical norprofitable for the consumer or for industry, only 3.7% of about 60 billion throw away beverage containers produced in 1971 were recycled. A 1972 study by Prof. Bruce Hannan of the University of Illinois showed that for the entire glass beverage container system, that includes production, transportation and disposal the returnable system uses much less energy than both the throw array and the recycling systems. This study was based on eight return trips per bottle. Recycling beverage containers is not the answer, especially the aluminum cans. Fverytime we throw acyav 48,000 cans we rob the American economy of $200 of valuable metal, most of it contributing to U. S. trade deficit. According to 1970 data for the U. S. Aluminum industry the production of cans is the number one use in a list of 72 catagories. Carol Killian reported that there are three good reasons for ending the non - returnable beverage container: 1) Deposit containers could save the average family $44.00 a year in direct purchase cost. 2) We can no longer waste the tremendous amount of energy we are spending today to produce no deposit no return containers. 3) Cost and waste of aluminum a relatively scarce almost totally imported non renewable natural resource. The main reason to get rid of non returnable bottles in Canada, Oregon, Vermont, and neighboring Cayuga County, which is litter. Carol 1 llian said that aluminum doesn't rust and lasts forever. Several cities and county's have enacted similar legislations. Cayuga County where New Yore's -3- July 16, 1974 first enacted deposit law, passed a legislation largely on the litter issue. The Boy Scouts and other volunteers in Tompkins County have conducted an impressive litter pick up. In April 1974, 272 miles of roadside were cleaned up in the County, 100,000 cans and bottles were picked up, laved end to end they would run from Stewart Park to Milikan Station: 1i.4 miles. The beverage own public relations campaign "Keep America Beautiful" reports eye - hopping cost. The Sierra Club sponsored a random telephone survey in June 1974, the 211 people contacted were asked if they would favor a mandatory 5� deposit on all soft drink and beer containers sold in the County. Almost 68% were in favor of the proposed legislation, while only 9i' were opposed. The Sierra Club survey reflects the feelings of other central New Yorkers surveyed during the past year. The strong majority of those surveyed favored deposit legislation. Bob Simpkins, Superintendent of Robert H. Trerran State Park, is 100f in favor of a mandatory deposit lair, since the throwaway can, the amount of litter in the park has grown dramatically along with this has come increased costs for clean -up and disposal. Erie "?iller, Chairman of the Public Safety and Correction Committee of the County Board of Representatives has said "when I was a boy we used to be able to return pop bottles for 2¢ and milk bottles for 5�, we never found it to be an inconvenience. Today the bottles and cans litter our roads and land, especially in the country aide now, kids can't make money picking up these bottles and cans, even if r*irls and boys (like the Scouts) clean up the roads and then bring them to recycling; centers more energy would be used to crush, melt and make new containers than if they were just washed, returned and reused. When I was a kid, there are some things we did better than we do today, the returnable bottle wag one of them." Legrace Benson, a member of the County Board of representatives Public Safety and Correction Committee says "we cannot afford to use scarce m.r.terials such as bauxite and expensive resources such as electrical energy to produce cans and bottles which all to quickly become part of the additional problems of litter and solid waste disposal. Throw aways are a minor and temporary convenience that we are buying at the price of our future." In Oregon, the first state to have mandatory deposit legislation, Governor Tom McClaw has said that the container deposit bill is a "rip roaring; success ". Since the enactment of the legislation in Oregon beverage container litter has been reduced by 90`/00 Carol Killian said that when it comes to the debate over throw away containers versus refillable containers there is one point that even the beverage industry cannot challenge: the easiest problem to solve is one you never created in the first place, help decrease solid waste cost, save our natural resources, con- serve energy, reduce litter, and save yourself money: support the return of the returnables. 11r. McClain then stated that Forest Golden would make some additional comments on bottle legislation. Then the opposition would speak. Mr. Golden then introduced himself. I.1r. Golden is from the City of Auburn and is a registered professional engineer in the State of lNew York. Mr. Golden reported that he has been studying bottle legislation for three years now. Mr. Golden reported that it was three years ago that the Cayuga County Environmental management council heard about the Oregon landmark decision. It was in July 1971, and since then an intensive study has been held, and came up with a 60+ page report and it was issued to the County Environmental management Committee of the Legislature. Mr. Golder said that as a result of this report the council recommended to the legislature that the legislature hold a public hearing, largest public hearing in Cavuga County, was held on this subject. Prior to the public hearing several surveys were made, which gave similes results as what Carol i,illian reported, basically 2 /3rds of the public were in favor of the legislation and most of that was by the litter issue. Hr. Golden said that after the public hearing it became rather clear that somebody was weighing "the facts of the Oregon experience ", that perhaps things couldn't be black or white in Oregon it had to be one way or the other. Ar. Golden said that he and the other peo -ole who supported the citizen effort, passed the legislation saying that it was working in Oregon. The opponents of the legislation said there was a disaster in Oregon, prices were sky high, litter was up and a number of other things. Consequently, the Chairman of legislation sent three legislators to Oregon to study the situation. One of the legislators was an opponent of the le-- gislation, prior to going because he was in the liquor business, a second one tras neutral and the third was an involved proponent of the proposed legislation. Mr. Golden said that they spent several days in Oregon and upon return -4- Jul',, 16, 197h .jusly reported that the legislation in Oregon was workint -. This osslation does not ban cans, it merely requires all containers to be refundable for a nickel. Vr. Golden said that the vote took place on PTovember 26 in a packed legislative chamber and the vote was affirmative, that on ??ov. 26 the law would go into effect. 14r. Golden said that alot of counties are now getting involved in bottle leffislat.ion, defeated in one county, active in Onondaga County, Suffolk County, Oneida County, in Herkimer County, etc. Bottle legislation has to be started somewhere in New York State and Cavuga County has passed it. In Albany it has never even gotten out of committee, in four consecutive years, and it won't ever get out of committee in Albany unless the heat is put on Albany through public action. ^!r. Golden said that he was in Vermont last week and Utica Club is selling in Vermont for $1.19, in the City of Utica, home of the westend brewing company it is selling for w1.29, which slows that the refillables are less and the people are not driving out of Vermont to buy throw aways. A small town by the name of Oagland, Ohio; population, 9,000 has had a deposit law in effect for two vAars or more and it is working on a city level. ir. Golden said for information and a copy of the law write to Mr. Dave Sonner, City Councilman, Oa,--,land,- Ohio. Mr. Golden then read parts of letters from brewing company's, who favor mandatory container deposit law. OPPOSITION TO THE BOTTLE LEGISLATION Carl Yengo, a local businessman in the wholesale beer industry. 11r. Yengo said that he is for protecting the environment and for improving_; the environment. "Ir. Yengo said that he feels that the approach to solid waste, litter and the energy problem cannot be solved on the local level with the proposed beverage container law. 111r. Yengo stated that there are many ramifications that are beyond the powers of local. government, but he suggested the' three "E's ": Education, Enforcement and Equipment to sub- stantiate his statement P1r. Yengo introduced Mr. Steve Chiles of Coca -Cola Company. Hr. Chiles said that there are two central issues to the container deposit legislation., letter and economic issijes. The most authoritative source that he knows of is the study done in 29 states of this country by "Keep America Beautiful'' and they found that litter was comprise(9. of beverage containers by roughly 20 %, which varies greatly with other figures. 11r. Chiles said that he would like to propose a litter program that deals with the entire litter problem, and he is working with material taken from Christopher Giles, who is a recognized national litter control man. Nir. Chiles said that we think of litter as being connected to ,just two sources that being pedestrian and motorist, and Pr. Giles has advanced five others: 1)Improper refuse outputs at comet rcial establishments 2)i m, household refuse put out 3)lack of containment at loading platforms and unloading platforms 4)uncovered trucks carrying; refuse 5)lack of containment at construction projects. Mr. Chiles said that ',"r. Giles has worked with New York City in actual litter control experience. In their actual litter experience in N. Y. C. they have reduced litter 62°0 on a sustaining basis within their given areas that they have advanced. NIr. Chiles said that Mr. Giles set up community programs to include: sanitation codes to cover the sources of the spread of litter, makin r it easier for people to dispose of litter properly, educational programs, and better enforcement methods. Mr. Chiles said too that ,,Ir. Giles feels in accordance with the community, the State government should, 1)require all -rotor vehicles to carry litter containers 2)require operators of open trucks to cover them when carryin,,,r, loose material 3)require roadside establishments between towns to provide and maintain adequate litter receptacles. fir. Chiles said that it has been the result of Mr. Giles experiment that litter has been reduced by 60J. 'this approach seems to be muc'i more practical than an approach such as a container ban, or deposit legislation which the Coca -Cola company believes would only reduce litter by 11 %. %Ir. Chiles also reported on the economic issues involved. In a container deposit law i:r. Chiles believes the consi=er will pay much more for soft drinks. If you combine the economic disruption to the packaging industry, to the beverage manufacturing industry, and to the retail.erz who finally bass this on to the consumers and total those costs up; it has been found that the consumers ultimately will pay more for their soft driiiks and their beer that it would surpass by many times over the total cost today of all litter programs. nir. Chiles also reported on a study done by Dr. Clark Strausser, Economics Professor, formerly with the University of Buffalo and retained by Erie County. It was found in Erie County not to enact the legislation that the price? of beer and soft drinks in returnable bottles would be higher than the non - returnables contrary to what he had earlier. reported. "r. Chiles said that there are over 250 coca -cola can vending machines in this county, it would automatically put these local merchants right out of the can vending business, -5- July 16, 197+ they just have no way to collect and control those deposit containers. Mr. Chiles said that capital expenditures in returnable bottles, cartons and cases, the obsolescence of coca -cola assets would cost the company in access of $500,000 to undertake this system. 111r. Chiles also said the final and most important issue of economics is the decline and rate of return of empty returnable bottles. Mr. Chiles said that in 1950 the coca -cola company experience bottle trippage levels, that is the probability that a bottle will continue to come back, cola bottles were .getting 15 to 20 trips. In 1960 it fell to 10 trips, and currently they are getting five trips, A high trippage level is the only way that a returnable system will work, if they don't receive the bottle trippage rate there is .just no way they can see these products on the market. Consumers in Tompkins County currently have a choice between the returnanles and nonreturnables, they are overwelmingly choosing the nonreturnables. Mr. Chiles said that if 68;2 of the consumers prefer the legislation then why is that 68% of coca -cola drinkers aren't buying a returnable package. The container deposit legislation in Coca - cola's opinion does very little to solve the litter problem, the cost to the consumer will be enormous, the cost of the beverage and container industry x-rill be enormous. Mr. Chiles asked everyone to consider the type of constructive program proposed by ir. Giles that was outlined. The next speaker was 11r. Jerry Howardam from Pepsi Cola Company. Mr. Howardam said that it is very interesting to note that all the surveys on litter they have always pointed out carbonated beverages, they forget all about brine bottles, whiskey bottles, mayonnaise and ketsup. 11r. Howardam said that there are hundreds of bottles on the shelf that you use and throw away but they single out the carbonated beverage bottles for all of the litter. In Cayuga County it was passed by a slim vote - 11 to 10 and the Erie County rejected it by 21 to 7. rir. Howardam said that the cities with the major population are opposed to bottle legislation and the New York Times had an article on the proposed legislation. The press has openly stated that it will be defeated in the City with the highest population in the United States. Mr. Howardam said that it was rejected in Suffolk County four years ago overwelmingly. i'r. Howardam asked what chance it has for statewide basis when the counties and municipality's turn it down cold. Bob Garrett from Coca -cola was the next speaker in opposition of the bottle legislation. Ar. Garrett said that he is general manager of the associated coca -cola bottling; company. Mr. Garrett said they have producing centers in Syracuse, Albany and 8 sales centers are served from the plants, Cortland which covers Ithaca. 11r. Garrett said that he agreed with what ter. Chiles said, and stated that they do have returnable bottles in every territory in which they do business, and most food stores have cooperated, however 900 of the sales are in nonreturnable bottles. "ir. Garrett said if this law was passed the soft drink industry in N. Y. S. it would take approximately 250 million dollars to convert to an all returnable system, at todays prices of money, slot would drop by the wayside. :4r. Garrett said they would then need new machinery, because most industries are not equipped to do all sizes of return - ables. Mr. Garrrett said that it would also be a complete change over for the glass company, and would probably be devasting to them if it were possible to do so. The Midwest Research Institute said "A national ban on one -way bottles and cans would have a negative 10 billion dollar im_oact on this country. A loss of $800 million dollars in taxes, and would cause a loss of more than 160,000 jobs. Mr. Garrett said that California, a neighbor of Oregon, has defeated this legislation several times as has over 3,000 other proposals of similar types of legislation. t°r. Garrett said. that Par. Strausser who is economics professor of the University of Buffalo, who was on the Coma ttee, and had five hearings throughout N. Y. S. concluded that if passed in Erie County, he did not believe that it would solve the litter problem and would seriously disrupt all of the beverage industry in that county. In Syracuse the papers there have said that it is not in their opinion for a county level, and they recommend recycling. Mr. Garrett said that he would leave with the chairman of the committee a copy of the Americacolo*y, which states a system for separation of solid waste. Mr. Stanley Tsapis also spoke and said that he has as interest in Bottle Legislation. Mr. Tsapis said that most business people are very conservative people because they invest their money. Mr. Tsapis said that he is a Lawyer and also a partner of Art Milligan's store, and they can sell beer for fi1.10 in non - returnable bottles. 1.4r. Tsapis said that he would like very much to see some kind of legislation passed, but not county wide, he would like to see an Oregon experiment possibly or Vermont. :x. Tsapis said that he and his partner are concerned that they are trying to compete with the counties around. -�- Jv1y 16, 1974 Tompkins County and. they would have to nay more if all returnable bottles were used. `°,r. Tsapis said that nationwide, or statewide legislation would be more to his liking because if it were only county, people are Roing to go to the neighboring county if they can get it for 30fi less. If Few York State were going to pass the legislation that would be fine, but 'le doesn't want to see Tompkins County experimenting with his money. "Ir. Milligan sai(I. that they do have returnables in the store, the ratio in soda is 25', beer is less than 2% in returnables. ?dr. McClain read a portion from the New York Times, July 8, 1974: "In the New York City Council a proposed law to require returnable beverage containers has been sponsored by 28 councilmen, well over a ma,iority of the 44 member volume. The bill known as: Intro Ho. 345, has the enthusiastic backinn of many councilmen who say they would like to stop the growing litter and garbage problems, caused by cans and bottles tossed away after one use. Intro 345 is given no chance of becoming a law "It's goin!7 no place" saic?. a source close to the council. It is politically dangerous. Bills almost identical to Intro No. 345 have been introduced across the country in the last few years, as the tide of non- returnables increased sharply, but most of these bills have died because of one of the most intensive lobbying campaigns in recent history. A majority of the council cosponsored the legislation that is the massive industry lobbying campaign that makes it politically dangerous and gives it very little chance of being passed, r4r. McClain said that during; the past several weeks he has attended meetings and met privately ti*ith people in .favor and opposed to the proposed beverage container deposit l.a,,T. Ar. '.cClain said that he was at the meeting to talk about facts versus innuendo. The facts have been carefully documented by two professors of Oregon University published in `March 1974. . The Oregon State University study based their conclusions on three primary sources: 1)the Oregon liquor control commission 2)the Oregon State highway division 3)their own survey of 100% of the licensed malt beverage distributors, 1001, of the licensed soft drink bottlers and 400 retailers in the state of Oregon. '''r. `IrClain then compared some innuendo with facts. lie strongly sup -orts the beverage container deposit le 7islation but wanted to advise the commission that things can be said without knowl.edgn or fact. '`4r. McClain said that there is not one shread of evidence that indicates the people of Orerron have anv reason to be sorry that their container legislation was passed. '4r. Garrett read a portion of the editori=.1 of the Post Standard, :'ay 7, 1974, which was a reversal by Dr. Strausser on containers: "An interesting* reversal of position by consultant, an introduction of net,, data are expected to have an impact of the Erie County legislation when they vote today on a bill that prohibits throw away beverage containers. An earlier meeting on the measure ended in a deadlocl_. Last summer Erie County executive Edward Raegen commissioned Dr. Strausser, an economic professor at the University of Pittsford, to make a study of the feasibility of a ban on one -wa,v containers. Subsequently, Dr. Strausser, a former University of Buffalo professor recommended that Erie County enact legislation to prevent the sale of beverages in such containers. But last Friday, Dr. Strausser announced that he had new information as a result of additional research and he was changing his mind. Among other things he said that he had found out from manufacturers that the price of beer and soft drinks in returnable bottles would be hArzher than in non - returnables, contrary to what he had earlier reported. Also he declared that the anti- litter goals of the proposed legislation probably would not be achieved, for example: he declared that litterers -uho now are throainry beer cans along road ways and other places, might be throwing glass bottles instead. Dr. Strausser said also that thro-v away containers purchased in other counties still could be used in Frie County and also would be potential. litter. This is similar to one of the problems in Vermont, where there is a statewide ban on non - returnable containers. Vermonters can buy be veranes in the prohibited bottles and cans in adjacent states and eventually disgard the container in Vermont. Dr. Strausser stated that many peonle just don't return their beer and soft drink containers even though they may be of the returnable type. Since they are bulker and heavier he says waste disposal would be increased. I wish I could have shown somethin,7� else, Dr. Strausser declared, the possibility that this proposed ban won't wor's is too high I believe." QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD After all parties had stated their opinion on the Bottle Legislation, a question and answer period was then held. Several noints were made as follot.rs: -7- July 161, 1974 f�lr. Vincent Giordano said tliat ve are doing- it here in the City of Ithaca, and Tompkins County. Mr. Giordano said he fouv�,it for the commission for 4 years as past president, and also as director of Challenge Industry for 4 or 5 years to give the handicap people some work in the City of Ithaca. We've got a fine system and the people are carrying the bottles back. The handicap people enjoy doin; the work. 24r. Giordano said they are not having the bottles dumped in landfill areas, and they get at least 65") of the bottles. 11,r. Giordano said that they collect bottles from the City, Lansing, Trurnansburg and Interlaken. Ar. Giordano said that when he was director of Challenge Industries the money from the bottles kept the industry going. 3lrs. Daley explained to everyone attending the Committee meeting that what is bein,^7 discussed is the proposal for Tompkins County, that the Commission is just tryinf* to form an opinion, from the information they are getting so that they can give a recommendation. airs. Daley said that the Commission was not forming a legislation, but that they do have representatives on the County Environmental Management Commission who will act for the Commission. '_lrs. Legrace Benson of the Board of Representatives said that the County at this time is studying the problem. The county does not have any -proposed legislation and probably will not have any proposed legislation for some time. -Mrs. Benson said the county is studying the problem of safety standpoints, of resources,economic standpoint, and from awareness of the problems that would arise in storage, etc. 14rs. Benson said the county does not have any legislation for ban, for deposit, or mandatory refillables, etc. because at present they are studying the problems associated. with litter, landfill, etc. Several comments were made on how the retailers would store the returnable bottles and where they would store them. Several Deople seem to think that this would definitely create a problem. ',like Hall said that he had a couple points to make. Ir. Hall asked two questions: 1)The first question was to 1r. Garrett asking him if he had to wait: in line for gas last winter; the answer was yes 2)The second. question was to 'ir. Yengo asking him if he had ever complained about the cost of fuel to heat his business; the answer was obviously. '?r. hall said that he thinks the central issue is energy, we can live with bottles up to our ears but we can't live without oil, and people should be concerned about saving energy. Tim Ray asked Mr. Chiles, what were some of the reasons for 1.07'7 tri.n(ret.urn) rate. Tlr. Chiles then answered that the Coca -cola company which manufactures . syrups, sets standards for a bottle, for all the coca -cola bottles through the country. The Cola company has no control over the bottle itself, I,lr. Chiles said. that the problem as he sees it, is the changing; consumer attitude, deposit has been increased to 10¢ and as ,yet there has been no increase in return rate. Alderman 1,ieyer asked the folloYving qeestion of any beverage representative: Would you not agree that besides the energy problem and tJ.. litter problem, we are also talking; about a life style problem, and the life style problem is very relative to the relationship of the economic situation countrywide and the programming of these economics by business. Would you not agree that just as the County was programmed into throw fiva.gs, they can be porggrammed out of the throw aways but they aren't going; to do it unless it is legislated, because it is a larger issue then just a lot of people being nice people doing this kind of turnabout after they have over 20 years been programmed into throw away concept. The answer was that if the consumer wants the product in a pa-per bag that is how he will get it. Alderman IIZeyer than sai(l that, from that answer as she sees it, we, the consumer have to prove to comi)Pnies that people are willing; to go through the pain of programming back into returnables. L,rs. Daley's response to Alderman Meyer's question was as follows: When talking about a life style it has been proven, how many gears has everyone been involved in keeping_; American Beautiful program, the litter program, people have proven over and over again that the;r are not interested in this litter problem and that is why the commission met trvin g to find. a wedge to force people to do the things that they should do on their ov,m. They have obvi.ousl�T chosen this life style and if they want to live like pigs, what are you ,7oin7 to do about it except go to legislation. Alderman Iv;eyer said the issue is I eyond litter. -8- july. 16, 1974 :r. McClain said that in Oregon the return rate in 1972 on soft drink containers was 80% return rate, in 1973 it was 92 return rate, in the meanwhile what happened was the law was passed, and people all of a sudden were behavin_7 differently because everybody was expected to return the containers. x. Jerry Fielding stated at the meeting in 1967 Canada Dry was all returnable and they loved them, they trade good money on them, they had flood prices, and had a good market. The retailers would ask for nonreturnable containers. The interest keeps rising and as the competition increased Canada Dry deeded non- returnables to compete. Mr. Giordano stated that in 1965, 66 and 67 when ev�r•yone was asking, and goin? to non- returnables it was for sanitation reasons. The bottles that were returned may not have been cleaned properly, even though, there were sanitary restrictions. Ivr. Giordano also said that he had at least 100 employees and after work most of his employees will pick up a beer to drink after work an(l they aren't going to take the bottle home to their wives to return. r4r. Garrett said they do have strict sanitation regulations at Coca -cola and they are inspected regularly by the state, and he wanted to assure the public that the bottles are clean. "Irs. Daley asked A4r. Golden if the can eater, is som ething t'riat there is a possibility for in the near future. TIr. Golden sai�,4 that it is being- developed and that is all he knows, and there was another machine that wa.s invented in Norway, that sorts the bottles and cans and issues receipts to customers. One statement was made, that if refillable cans or bottles are used, the mixture that goes into the bottles does not have to be changed, and companies do not necessarily need new equipment. The law does not state what type of container that the drink has to be in, as lop'-, as it is returnable. A question was brought out retarding the use of plastic bottles 'or Coca -Cola. It is being experimented with in New England, but that is all that is known at this time. Pepsi Cola also is trying the plastic bottle in Las Vegas, and in Philadelphia and one of the southern cities and it is a long way off. The plastic bottle doesn't have a good appeal to customers. It was decided that the commission would have to discuss this matter at another meetinn, with the information that they had learned front the speakers. On a motion the meeting was adjourned. Nancy R. "'eye'r, Actin, Se _et '7 PROCEEDINGS OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION Regular Meeting 7:30 P.M. September 17, 1974 PRESENT: Joy Daley, Chairman Alderman Nancy Meyer Lawrence Bach Michael Hall Ex- Officio Member - Alderman Anne Jones ABSENT: Vincent Giordano Timothy Ray MINUTES: By Lawrence Bach; seconded by Michael Hall RESOLVED, that the minutes of the May 21, 1974 and July 16, 1974 meetings stand approved as recorded by the City Clerk. Carried REPORT ON BIKEWAYS: Michael Hall reported that the bikeways is in the hands of two professors working with Mr. Van Cort as a class project. The project has not been started. Alderman Meyer added that the work that is going to be done on the bikeways will fit into the decision regarding the D.P.W. maintanence garage. This will keep the waterfront exposed as a possible location for the bikeway. Alderman Meyer added that the nearby D.O.T. facilities have landscaped their front yard nicely, but they have used the water side of their property as their main piling yard. By Nancy Neyer: seconded by Lawrence Bach RESOLVED, that the Environmental Commission write a letter after Nancy Heyer and Michael Ball meet with D.O.T. requesting that they move their fence back 10 feet and remove the piles or cover their piles with shrubbery. Carried Alderman Meyer further stated that there were two purposes here; 1. we ,set the landscaping for the visual and 2. would be making preparation for access to the bike path. REPORT ON PAPER RECYCLING: Alderman Meyer reported that she attended a meeting of the Charter and Ordinance Committee and has talked with Jack Dougherty and they are going to work up something to bring back to Charter and Ordinance, which would be mandatory separation. Alderman Meyer stated they would have to take the whole refuse section of the code and revise it. They will likely have mandatory se;.e.ra.t.i.on and private carters picking up paper maybe once a month. This wouyzi allow for Kiwanis to have their four yearly pick -ups. Newspaper will be all that is picked up. Alderman Meyer remarked that if they get this off the ground then they will pursue metal. Joy Daley felt that education was also a part of the Commissions role in gaining 109% participation. Discussion was raised regarding obtaining funds from the Budget and Finance Committee for educational and materials purpose which are specific to environmental matters. It was suggested that some- one be hired or volunteer to work on this problem. Alderman Jones suggested the Commission could ask for their own budget then get with someone about hiring part -time help. Joy Daley stated that unless the project is news worthy the media will drop it. 1975 BUDGET: Alderman Meyer restated the D.P.W. maintanence garage and D.O.T. problem as a viable stand for the 1975 budget. Michael Hall felt it would take 3,500.00 to run a decent program. Hall added that 2,500.00 would pay an assistant working 15 hrs. a week from Cornell, and to run a publicity campaign. He figured it would cost 1,000.00 above that to send them to all the conferences they should go to, and provide office supplies and other necessary things to run the operation. Joy Daley raised the question of whether this is necessary, is this the way we want to go? Lawrence -Bach felt that through Planning they could attack environmental problems. The place to get environmental concern into the system is through Planning. Alderman Jones restated that the Commission is not associated with anybody and they need to be. Alderman Jones also recommended that they not ask for money for a salary, but rather eventually have the associated person ask for salary money, but that you have money for some kind of services in the budget that can be drawn on and channeled through a city department, rather than the descretion of the Commission. By Nancy Meyer: seconded by Lawrence Bach RESOLVED, that we request in the 1975 budget a total sum of 2,550.00 with an allocation of: 50.00 Literature and Supplies 500.00 Travel and Conferences 2000.00 Contractual Services under the auspicious of the Planning director and his staff. Alderman Neyer wanted to make it clear that the Planning Department would be the facilitator but not the spokesman. Carried UNFINISHED BUSINESS BOTTLE LEGISLATION: A discussion took place on the floor with the following resolution being presented. By Michael Ball: seconded by Lawrence Bach RESOLVED, that the Environmental Commission go on record as supporting the county effort in drafting a refurn.able bottle legislation. Carried COU14TY Mr 41',GEIIE NT COMMISSION: The Environmental Commission will invite Mr. Earle to speak at their next meeting, and set up a program for at least a few months. 'Michael Hall offered to check with Environmental Education at Cornell about some possible services needed of their students for projects. He said there was also a possibility that Cornell would sponsor a student and take the load off of the city. NEW BUSINESS: There was no new business CONIMNNI CATI ONS : Syracuse Conference, September 20, 21, and 22, 1974 - no one was able to attend. Syracuse Conference, October 19, and 20, 1974 - Joy Daley will attend and Michael Hall May be able to attend the evening sessions. Cornell Coal P= =e Joy Daley reported that Cornell is having problems in not getting the right kind of coal. They have the dam built and are looking into an underground tank system. The runoff would not be a problem if they could get the quality coal they need. Cornell looked into changing their plant into natural gas or oil but the energy crisis called a halt to the idea. By Michael Hall: seconded by Lawrence Bach RESOLVED, that the Commission urge Common Council at it's next meeting to pass a resolution supporting Cornell University's efforts to reopen the rail line. Carried On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 9:46 P.M. ;fJosep'h A. Rundle, City Clerk EIIVIROI *TENTAL COMMISSION MEETING City of, ITHACA, IND? YORK. Regular Meeting 7:30 p.m. October 15, 1974 PRESENT Joy Daley, Chm. Alderman Nancy Pieyer Lawrence Bach Michael Hall Vincent Giordano ABSENT Timothy Ray OTHERS PRESENT Pat Riexinger - Cornell Conservation Club Tony Incalcatera - Cornell Conservation Club Dave Burnett and sons - Daniel and Arron Dan Hoffman City Clerk - Rundle MINUTES By Lawrence Bach: seconded by Michael Hall RESOLVED, that the minutes of the September 17, 1974 meeting stand approved as recorded by the City Clerk. Carried COrfiiITTEE REPORTS Meeting with D.O.T.: riichael Hall reported he had not met with D.O.T. yet, and for the benefit of those who were absent at the last meeting, Mr. Hall summarized what they are trying to accomplish with D.O.T. Paper Recycling: Alderman Meyer reported that it was taken to Common Council, and Jack Dougherty was asked to report at the next Council meeting with some sort of plan. Alderman Meyer stated that in the Environmental Pianagement Bulletin there was a section on resource recovery. Alderman Meyer noticed that the big push was total Community programs that have to do with plants. Joy Daley reported on a waste plant article she read. Lehigh Valley Railroad Freight Station: Alderman Meyer reported that the Historical Legislation Act of 1966 enables a review of building to be torn down for highways being built. This review has slowed down the road building process. Some questions that have to be answered are; what are the choices the City is going to make in moving people? and what are those choices going to do to the environment? Alderman Meyer felt that the Commission should take a stand on the problem,.. Michael Hall stated that the Sierra Club is interested in transportation in Ithaca and they are forming a group to look at the problem. Discussion continued regarding the proposed cross town rt. 13 and problems relating to that. Bikeways: Michael Hall reported that there will be no report on the Bikeways Committee until January. Discussion was raised pertaining to the amount of land the State is going to buy for the bikeway. Alderman 14eyer made it clear to the Commission that every person should keep up with what is going on, otherwise the bureaucracy will environmentally be distructive to the people. -2- County Hanagement Commission Report: Joy Daley reported that she and Robert Earle talked about participating in County Management program, and discussed several problems common to both groups. Powers and Duties of the Commission. The powers and duties of the commis- sion shall be to: 1. Advise the Common Council on matters affecting preservation, development, and use of the natural and man -made features and conditions of the City insofar as beauty, quality, ecologic integrity and other environmental factors are concerned, and in the case of man's activities and developments, with regard to any major threats posed to environmental quality, so as to enhance the long range value of the environment to the people of the City. 2. Develop and, after receiving general approval by resolution of the Common Council, conduct a program of public information in the community which shall be designed to foster increased understanding of the nature of environmental problems and issues and support for their solutions. 3. Conduct studies, surveys, and inventories of the natural and manmade features within the City of Ithaca and such other studies and surveys as may be necessary to carry out the general purposes of this Local Law. 4. Taintain an up -to -date inventory or index of all open spaces in public or private ownership within the municipality, including but not limited to natural landmarks, glacial and other geomorphic or physiographic features; streams and their flood plains, swamps, marshlands and other wetlands; unique biotic communities scenic and other open areas of natural or eco- logical value and of the ownership, present use and proposed use of such areas, so as to provide a base of information for recommendations by the Commission for their preservation and /or use. 5. Seek to coordinate, assist, and unify the efforts of private croups, institutions, and individuals within the City of Ithaca in accord with the purposes of this Local Law. 6. Maintain liaison and communications with public and private agencies and organizations of local, state and national scope whose programs and activities have an impact on the quality of the environment or which can be of assistance to the Commission. :Jotee Specific requests may be made to local organizations to designate one of their members as liaison officer to the Commission. 7. Working in cooperation with the planning board, recommend from time to time to the Common Council features, plans, and programs relating to environmental improvement for inclusion in the Master Plan of the City of Ithaca and similarly, recommend to the Common Council appropriate and desirable changes in existing local laws and ordinances relating to environmental control or recommend new local laws and ordinances. 8. Prepare, print, and distribute books, maps, charts, pamphlets, in accord with the purpose of this Local Law. 9. Obtain and maintain in orderly fashion maps, reports, books, and other publications to support the necessary researches of the Commission. 10. lghen authorized by resolution of the Common Council of Ithaca, the Commission may accept by gift, grant, devise, bequest, or otherwise, property both real and personal in the name of the City of Ithaca as may be necessary to conserve and otherwise properly utilize open spaces and other land and water resources within the boundaries of the City of Ithaca. Such real property may be accepted in fee for land and water rights, or as any lesser interest, development right, easement, including conserva- tion easement, covenant, or other contractual right including conveyance with limitations or reversions. 11. Carry out such other duties as may be assigned from time to time by the Common Council. Alderman Geyer suggested some areas in Ithaca that the Commission could take a stand on. Chairman Daley mentioned that the Commission might benefit by connecting themselves with the County Management Commission. Alderman Meyer suggested that the Commission pica: a certain project for each month for the next six months. Lawrence Bach recommended a presentation of maps of open spaces around the Ithaca area by Mr. Van Cort at the November 19, 1974 meeting. -3- Alderman Meyer suggested for the January 1975 meeting a presentation by historic Ithaca, historic preservation and its implications. Michael Hall suggested that the County Planner come and talk on the Countys plans. Alderman Meyer felt that the Commission should focus on the history and uses of the gorges surrounding Ithaca. Michael Hall was asked to plan the program for the February 1975 meeting. Michael Hall suggested for the March 1975 meeting that the state D.O.T. could come and talk on what they are doing on highways, etc. It would also be good to get films and slides tc show to the public. The guests were asked if they had any questions. Mr. Burnett asked the Commission if they had anything to do with the dredging of the inlet. Alderman Meyer stated that the Commission was an advisory committee and the dredging could go on against the Commissions say so. Alderman Meyer asked the Commission if they wanted to have anything from the Commission taken back to Council. Alderman Meyer asked that it be put into writing and she would present it to Council. There was discussion on the budget request for 1975 and that the Commission should get a strong budget in the coming years so that the state could refund such projects like radio spots or short t.v. spots. Tony Incalcatera suggested that the Commission *.Hake use of the student interest from the Colleges for help in projects. Michael Hall suggested relative to the Education program, that he get together with Pat Riexinger and Tony Incalgatera before the next meeting and Professor Kelly and see what they can come up with. The students could find something in the City and do a project then report to the Commission later. Absentee Member: A discussion took place regarding a member that has missed several meetings. Chairman Daley said she would contact the individual regarding his status. On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 9 :10 p.m. V41 J Joseph /A. Rundle, City Clerk E14VIRONMENTAL COMMISSION MEETING City of ITHACA, NEW YOP.K Regular meeting PRESENT Joy Daley, Chm. Lawrence Bach Michael Hall Alderman Nancy Meyer ABSENT Vincent Giordano David Bechhofer OTHERS PRESENT 7:30 p.m. Mayor Conley Tony Incalcatera - Cornell Conservation Club Frank Liguori - County Planning Commissioner Alderman Jones City Clerk - Rundle MINUTES By Lawrence Bach: seconded by Michael Hall RESOLVED, that the minutes of the October 15, recorded by the City Clerk. COMMITTEE REPORTS November 19, 1974• 1974 meeting be approved as Carried Meeting with D.O.T.: Michael Hall met with D.O.T. and stated that they didn't get around to discussing the problem of their piles and refuse and fill along the inlet. Michael Hall hoped to get to talk with them again. Alderman Meyer reviewed what they were trying to do with D.O.T. Paper Recycling: Alderman Meyer said that the D.P.W. was asked to bring figures back which they failed to do so they will have to be asked again. Alderman Meyer stated that they will be doing this through the Planning and Development Committee. Alderman Meyer reviewed ideas for recycling. Mr. Liguori commented on the program of solid wastes in existence now. Mr. Liguori stated that there is a tri- county solid waste recovering study under a 100% funded grant from the Department of Environmental Conservation. This will be to identify what opportunities might exist in the three counties for recovery of the valuable resources in refuse. One area of value is the possibility of the refuse being used as fuel at Milliken Station, and other possibilities will be looked into around the area. Mr. Liguori further commented that there is an opportunity for skimming of removing certain fractions of the solid wastes before it gets to the collection system. He stated that it would be six months before they would have a definative report. Alderman Meyer asked if this was a situation where it would be operating at a County level and if there could be consistent pick -up. Mr. Liguori stated that half of the County is covered by Municipal pick -ups and the other portions of the County are covered by private collectors, and 75 to 80 percent of the homes are using these collectinns. Further discussinn was held pertaining to disposal points, what items can be taken out before they go to the transfer station, and further possibil- ities of different collections. Bikeways: Michael Hall reported that there have been several meetings between Pro- fessor Gentiley and Mr. VanCort,'of which he has not been able to attend. Mr. Ball was able to attend a meeting on Transportation in general, and -2- - he felt that one objective of the bikeways study was to consider how any- thing that Ithaca does might integrate with plans of surrounding communities. Discussion was held pertaining to the group at Cornell doing research for City Planning. Conferences: Joy Daley reported on the conference she attended in Syracuse. She offered the material that she obtained to the Commission to loot: over. Mrs. Daley stated that this Commission was to submit a report to them every year. Joy Daley and Mike Hall explained to the Commission about Transfer Develop- ment Rights, and what it entails. Unfinished Business: Alderman Meyer commented that the Commission should investigate what the Area Beautification Council is interested in and how the Commission could use their official charge to bring some of the concerns to Council. Alderman Meyer gave some areas that the Beautification Council is inter- ested in. Mr. Liguori commented on the idea of preserving the shore line and restrain Cayuga Lake as a recreation area and reduce the pressure of growth along that area. Discussion was further held pertaining to the law of control of land use along water areas, and proper land use. Alderman ;ieyer requested that Mr. Liguori send the Commission information on the law of land use and that the Commission will study it and make it one of their concerns. December Meeting: Joy Daley cLatcd Ovat they will have problemR with the date of the December meeting, in order to have Mr. VanCort attend. Chairman Daley asked if the date could be changed to the third Monday, December 16, 1974. There were no objections from the Commission. Commercial Use of School Property on South Hill: Alderman Jones stated that she was concerned with a commercial use of School property on South Hill by N.C.R., who is using part of the School Districts property on Aurora Street fortemporary parking. Alderman Jones stated that the City along with the School Board have tried to develop this area. Joy Daley commented that this area has bean an open playground area for a long time. Alderman Heyer suggested that this be one of the specific questions that the Commission send to Mr. VanCort and ask him to report on this and all open spaces in the City. Alderman Jones stated that variance has been applied for from the Building Commissioner for the use of parking on this land. Alderman Jones wants to keep this open green space an open green space. Michael Hall stated that the Commission couldn't do anything about the situation at this time. Mr. Hall felt that it would be good to act on this matter at the next meeting. He stated that everyone could take a look at the situation some time during the next few weeks and report what they think should be done. Mr. Frank Liguori County Planning Commissioner, Presentation: Mr. Liguori spoke on the County Environmental Management Council and its responsibilities and future goals. Mr. Liguori presented several open space land use maps of Tompkins County and discussed these maps in detail, Mr. Liguori stated that with the kind of growth that they are expecting, if the land is used judiciously open space in the next 20 to 25 years should not be reduced by anymore than three or four square miles. -3- After the presentation a question and answer- period took place. Environmental Council Education Program Report: Tony Incalcatera reported that he had met with Pat Riexin -er twice and has gotten a basic outline of what they would like to see instituted in the University through an independent study project in the natural Resources Department. Mr. Incalcatera stated that they had someone who would sponsor some students to work on the project. Itichael Hall reviewed what they were trying to do for those who were not familiar with the program. Mayor Conley asked if there has been any inventory on open spaces in the City? Joy Daley replied that this is one of the things that they are trying to do with Mr. VanCort through the Planning Department. On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 10:00 p.m. i`l) •:'.�Z • 'Vl� ', L /Joseph A. Rundle, City Clerk PROCEEDINGS ("k THE ENVIRONMENTAL COI-IMISSION REGULAR MEETING 7 :30 P.M. July 16, 1974 PRESENT: Joy Daley, Chairman Alderman Nancy Beyer .ichael Hall Timothy Ray Vincent Giordano ABSENT: Lawrence Bach OTHERS PRESENT: Alderman John _Gutenberger Mrs. Legrace Benson PAPER COLLECTION: Alderman Meyer gave a report of paper collection. Alderman .Meyer reported that the Planning and Development Committee has met with the Department of Public Works and at this point they talked about who might be interested in the collection of paper in the City. Alderman Meyer reported that Mr. Irving has looked into it and there are people in the City who are interested. Alderman 1,4eyer stated that they haven't met again as a committee. Alderman Meyer said that she thinks that because of the economic complications she is going to recommend that a system be set up for mandatory separation and possibly licensing private carters, sort of a scavenger license. Alderman Meyer reported that it is just a suggestion, that the Planning and Development Committee has to hear it and the Department has to hear it. BIKEWAYS: Mike Hall reported on the Bikeways in the City. Mike Hall stated that the Bike Committee has met since the last meeting of Environmental Commission with the Planning Department and all the volunteer help as well as the Ithaca Planning Department was present at the meeting. Mike Hall reported that the Bike Committee had decided, to continue to look at the, subject of bikeways this summer and continue with publicity, but that this Fall they would enlist the help of a planning class at Cornell to study the needs of cyclists in Ithaca with the idea of coming up with a well thought out plan so that a pitfall wouldn't be run in to. Mr. Hall stated that the Bike Committee wants to set up bikeways of the class 3 level, which are bikeways that are marked alone the roadways to warn motorists and to act as guides so that cyclists will have routes to follow. Also a class 1 which will run to Cass Park. Mike Hall reported that the Bike Committee will meet again in August but that the next important thing that will happen will be the class picking it up and finding out what the needs ,are. Mike Hall stated that a proposal will be drawn up and can be referred to Common Council to ask for funds and then possibly start next Spring. Mr. Hall also stated that in the next few years he hopes to see Bikeways between all the state parks, and now the State is getting interested in it, because there is so much local support. COUNTY BOARD: Timothy Ray reported that he has been working with 1,4r. Cary who is on the County Board regarding bikeways. Iir. Ray stated that they have researched into who owns the Lehigh Valley Railway as far as up to Geneva which is the Cass Park bedway. Mr. Ray said that it is owned by N. Y. S. E. & G. all the way up to Geneva who bought it in 1960. Mr. Ray said that about after 2 miles out of town there is nothing on the bedway all the way up to Geneva, it is used for nothing. Mr. Ray said there is also the old Lackawana that goes south out of Ithaca and goes down toward Owego, it goes all the way to Caroline with nothing on it. Mr. Ray said that in speaking to �!'r. Cary some of the problems that have arose have-been quite extensive with tl°,e people cormlaining about motorcycles and snowmobiles. Mr. Ray said that using the railway for recreational purposes, such as biking, hiking, etc. Mr. Cary is very interested to go to the State with this. Mr. Ray reported that he will now get together with Mr. Hall and his committee. ENVIRON14ENTAL CAMP: No report ANNUAL BUDGET: Alderman Meyer reported that Common Council did allocate another $50.00 for the Environmental Commission. Alderman Meyer reported that they do have the dues paid now to the New York State Association of Conservation Commissions and still have $50.00 if the Committee wants to do any mailing or such, they now have some financial backing. -2- July 16, 1974 NEW YORK STATE ELECTRIC AND GAS COAL PLANT Mr. Bach was not present to give a report, however Mr. Ray stated that speaking with ^lr. Cary, that they were looking over the impact statement that was put together regarding the plant and it seems that when the State and Federal regulations were put through, it seems that everybody and their friend gets a copy of the impact statement, but it is surprisinrr that the City of Ithaca gets none. Mr. Ray said that ?Mr. Cary had told him that 5 tons of impact statements were printed up and distributed in the State to certain people. There was a discussion regarding the bonding of money from New York State Electric and Gas. By Alderman Meyer: seconded by Mike Hall RESOLVED, That Common Council investigate the funds available for studying the impact of the New York State Electric and Gas Plant. Motion Defeated NEW BUSINESS BOTTLE LEGISLATION ,,rs. Daley introduced Mr. John McClain who gave a discussion on Bottle Legislation. Mr. ?McClain introduced himself to the Commission, as a Professor at Cornell in the Business School, and he is also in the group which calls itself the Tompkins County Citizens Committee for Returnable Beverage Containers. Mr. McClain stated that two participants would speak at the meeting, they were: Carol Killian and Forest Golden. Carol 'Gillian gave a slide presentation on bottle legislation. Carol Killian stated that an average family consumes 1,646 bottles or cans of beer and carbonated soft drinks each year. The Tompkins County consumers are buying most of their beverages in non - returnable bottles and cans. Carol Killian reported that if non - returnables were outlawed the average family would save $44.00 per year in beverage purchases. This means that the consumers in Tompkins County could save at least $800,000 per year. Carol Killian said that other costs are also involved, those being: litter clean -up, solid waste disposal, energy use, and use of raw materials. Save energy by putting the beer back in refillable deposit containers. Rach time an aluminum can is produced 2 kilowat of energy more than that required to produce a returnable bottle, which is the same as burning a 100 watt lightbulb for five hours. Massive industry efforts to encourage recycling centers for glass and cans are generally failing. Recycling beverage containers is neither practical norprofitable for the consumer or for industry, only 3.7% of about 60 billion throw away beverage containers produced in 1971 were recycled. A 1972 study by Prof. Bruce Hannan of the University of Illinois showed that for the entire glass beverage container system, that includes production, transportation and disposal the returnable system uses much less energy than both the throw away and the recycling systems. This study was based on eight return trips per bottle. Recycling beverage containers is not the answer, especially the aluminum cans. Everytime we throw a,wai* 48,000 cans we rob the American economy of $200 of valuable metal, most of it contributing to U. S. trade deficit. According to 1970 data for the U. S. Aluminum industry the production of cans is the number one use in a list of 72 catagories. Carol Killian reported that there are three good reasons for ending the non - returnable beverage container: 1) Deposit containers could save the average family $44.00 a year in direct purchase cost. 2) We can no longer waste the tremendous amount of energy we are spending today to produce no deposit no return containers. 3) Cost and waste of aluminum a relatively scarce almost totally imported non renewable natural resource. The main reason to get rid of non returnable bottles in Canada, Oregon, Vermont, and neighboring Cayuga County, which is litter. Carol :wtllian said that aluminum doesn't rust and lasts forever. Several cities and county's have enacted similar legislations. Cayuga County where New York's -3- July 16, 1974 first enacted deposit law, passed a legislation largely on the litter issue. The Boy Scouts and other volunteers in Tompkins County have conducted an impressive litter pick up. In April 1974, 272 miles of roadside were cleaned up in the County, 100,000 cans and bottles were picked up, layed end to end they would run from Stewart Park to Milikan Station: 11.4 miles. The beverage own public relations campaign "Keep America Beautiful" reports eye - popping cost. The Sierra Club sponsored a random telephone survey in June 1974, the 211 people contacted were asked if they would favor a mandatory 5¢ deposit on all soft drink and beer containers sold in the County. Almost 68% were in favor of the proposed legislation, while only 9% were opposed. The Sierra Club survey reflects the feelings of other central Nev Yorkers surveyed during the past year. The strong majority of those surveyed favored deposit legislation. Bob Simpkins, Superintendent of Robert H. Treman State Park, is 100% in favor of a mandatory deposit law. since the throwaway can, the amount of litter in the park has grown dramatically along with this has come increased costs for clean -up and disposal. Erie Miller, Chairman of the Public Safety and Correction Committee of the County Board. of Representatives has said "when I was a boy we used to be able to return pop bottles for 2¢ and milk bottles for 5¢, we never found it to be an inconvenience. Today the bottles and cans litter our roads and land, especially in the country side now, kids can't make money picking up these bottles and cans, even if girls and boys (like the Scouts) clean up the roads and then bring them to recycling; centers more energy would be used to crush, melt and make new containers than if they were just washed, returned and reused. When I was a kids there are some things we did better than we do today, the returnable bottle was one of them." Legrace Benson, a member of the County Board of representatives Public Safety and Correction Committee says "we cannot afford to use scarce materials such as bauxite and expensive resources such as electrical energy to produce cans and bottles which all to quickly become part of the additional problems of litter and solid waste disposal. Throw sways are a minor and temporary convenience that we are buying at the price of our future." In Oregon, the first state to have mandatory deposit legislation, Governor Tom McClaw has said that the container deposit bill is a "rip roaring success ". Since the enactment of the legislation in Oregon beverage container litter has been reduced by 90 %. Carol Killian said that when it comes to the debate over throw away containers versus refillable containers there is one point that even the beverage industry cannot challenge: the easiest problem to solve is one you never created in the first place, help decrease solid waste cost, save our natural resources, con- serve energy, reduce litter, and save yourself money: .support the return of the returnables. Mr. McClain then stated that Forest Golden would make some additional comments on bottle legislation. Then the opposition would speak. Mr. Golden then introduced himself. I•Sr. Golden is from the City of Auburn and is a registered professional engineer in the State of New York. Mr. Golden reported that he has been studying bottle legislation for three years now. Mr. Golden reported that it was three years ago that the Cayuga County Environmental management council heard about the Oregon landmark decision. It was in July 1971, and since then an intensive study has been held, and came up with a 60+ page report and it was issued to the County Environmental Management Committee of the Legislature. Mr. Golder said that as a result of this report the council recommended to the legislature that the legislature hold a public hearing, largest public hearing in Cayuga County, was held on this subject. Prior to the public hearing several surveys were made, which gave similar results as what Carol Iri.11ian reported, basically 2 /3rds of the public were in favor of the legislation and most of that was by the litter issue. Mr. Golden said that after the public hearing it became rather clear that somebody was weighing "the facts of the Oregon experience ", that perhaps things couldn't be black or white in Oregon it had to be one way or the other. 7r. Golden said that he and the other peo?ole who supported the citizen effort, passed the legislation saying that it was working in Oregon. The opponents of the legislation said there was a disaster in Oregon, prices were sky high, litter was up and a number of other things. Consequently, the Chairman of legislation sent three legislators to Oregon to study the situation. One of the legislators was an opponent of the legislation, prior to going because he was in the liquor business, a second one was neutral and the third was an involved proponent of the proposed legislation. �Ir. Golden said that they spent several days in Oregon and upon return _4_ 'Tuly 16, 1974 unanimously reported that the legislation in Oregon was working. This legislation does not ban cans, it merely requires all containers to be refundable for a nickel. Mr'. Golden said that.the vote took place on November 26 in a packed legislative chamber and the vote was affirmative, that on Nov. 26 the law would go into effect. Mr. Golden said that alot of counties are now getting involved in bottle legislation, defeated in one county, active in Onondaga County, Suffolk County, Oneida County, in Herkimer County, etc. Bottle legislation has to be started somewhere in New York State and Cayuga County has passed it. In Albany it has never even gotten out of committee, in four consecutive years, and it won't ever get out of committee in Albany unless the heat is put on Albany through public action. Mr. Golden said that he was in Vermont last week and Utica Club is selling in Vermont for $1.19, in the City of Utica, home of the westend brewing company it is selling for $1.29, which shows that the refillables are less and the people are not driving out of Vermont to buy throw aways. A small town by the name of Oagland, Ohio; population, 9,000 has had a deposit law in effect for two Nears or more and it is working on a city level. is. Golden said for information and a copy of the law write to Mr. Dave Sonner, City Councilman, Oagland, Ohio. Mr. Golden then read parts of letters from brewing company's, who favor mandatory container deposit law. OPPOSITION TO THE BOTTLE LEGISIATIO14 Carl Yengo, a local businessman in the wholesale beer industry. Mr. Yengo said that he is for protecting the environment and for improving the environment. 14r. Yengo said that he feels that the approach to solid waste, litter and the energy problem cannot be solved on the local level with the proposed beverage container law. 11r. Yengo stated that there are many ramifications that are beyond the powers of local government, but he suggested the* three "E's ": Education, Enforcement and Equipment to sub- stantiate his statement Mr. Yengo introduced '4r. Steve Chiles of Coca --Cola Company. Mr. Chiles said that there are two central issues to the container deposit legislation, letter and economic issues. The most authoritative source that he knows of is the study done in 29 states of this country by " Keep America Beautiful" and they found that litter. was comprised_ of beverage containers by roughly 20 %, which varies greatly with other figures. Mr. Chiles said that he would like to propose a litter program that deals with the entire litter problem, and he is working with material taken from Christopher Giles, who is a recognized national litter control man. Mr. Chiles said that we think of litter as being connected to .lust two sources that being pedestrian and motorist, and t-1r. Giles has advanced five others: 1)Improper refuse outputs at commercial establishments 2)imnroper household refuse put out 3)lack of containment at loading platforms and unloading platforms W uncovered trucks carrying refuse 5)lack of containment at construction projects. Mr. Chiles said that :fir. Giles has worked with New York City in actual litter control experience4 In their actual litter experience in N. Y. C. they have reduced litter 620 on a sustaining basis within their given areas that they have advanced. Mr. Chiles said that i4r. Giles set up community programs to include: sanitation codes to cover the sources of the spread of litter, makin.r it easier for people to dispose of litter properly, educational programs, and better enforcement methods. Mr. Chiles said too that Mr. Giles feels in accordance with the community, the State government should, 1)require all *!rotor vehicles to carry litter containers 2)require operators of open trucks to cover them when carrying loose material 3)require roadside establishments between towns to provide and maintain adequate litter receptacles. Mr. Chiles said that it has been the result of Mr. Giles experiment that litter has been reduced by 600. This approach seems to be muci more practical than an approach such as a container ban, or deposit legislation which the Coca -Cola company believes would only reduce litter by 11 %. ?v1r. Chiles also reported on the economic issues involved. In a container deposit law 11r. Chiles believes the consumer will pay much more for soft drinks. If you combine the economic disruption to the packaging industry, to the beverage manufacturing industry, and to the retailers who finally pass this on to the consumers and total those', costs up, it has been found that the consumers ultimately will pay more for their soft drinks and their beer that it would surpass by many times over the total cost today of all litter programs. Mr. Chiles also reported on a study done by Dr. Clark Strausser, Economics Professor, formerly with the University of Buffalo and retained by Erie County. It was found in Erie County not to enact the legislation that the price of beer and soft drinks in returnable bottles would be higher than the non - returnables contrary to what he had earlier. reported. 7� 1r. Chiles said that there are over 250 coca -cola can vending machines in this county, it would automatically put these local merchants right out of the can vending business, -5- Jui-y l6, 1974 they just have no way to collect and control those deposit containers. Mr. Chiles said that capital expenditures in returnable bottles, cartons and cases, the obsolescence of coca -cola assets would cost the company in access of $5009000 to undertake this system. Mr. Chiles also said the final and most important issue of economics is the decline and rate of return of empty returnable bottles. Mr. Chiles said that in 1950 the coca -cola company experience bottle trippage levels, that is the probability that a bottle will continue to come back, cola bottles were getting 15 to 20 trips. In 1960 it fell to 10 trips, and currently they are getting five trips. A high trippage level is the only way that a returnahle system will work, if they don't receive the bottle trippage rate there is just no way they can see these products on the market. Consumers in Tompkins County currently have a choice between the returnables and nonreturnables, they are overwelmi.n gly choosing the nonreturnables. Mr. Chiles said that if 68;j' of the consumers prefer the .legislation then why is that 68% of coca -cola drinkers aren't buying a returnable package. The container deposit legislation in Coca - cola's opinion does very little to-solve the litter problem, the cost to the consumer will be enormous, the cost of the beverage and container industry 'rill be enormous. iir. Chiles asked everyone to consider the type of constructive program bronosed by HTr. Giles that was outlined. The next speaker was ''7r. Jerry Howardam from Pepsi Cola Company. r?r, FIoi�mrdam said that it is very interesting to note that all the surveys on litter they have always pointed out carbonated beverages, they forget all about brine bottles, whiskey bottles, mayonnaise and ketsup. !''Tr. Howardam said that there are hundreds of bottles on the shelf that you use and throw away but they single out the carbonated beverage bottles for all of the litter. In Cayuga Countv it was passed by a slim vote - 11 to 10 and the Erie County rejected it by 21 to 7. J"r. Howardam said that the cities with the major population are opposed to bottle legislation and the New York Times had an article on the proposed legislation. The press has openly stated that it will be defeated in the City with the highest population in the United States. Mr. Howardam said that it was rejected in Suffolk County four years ago overwelmin gly. 1r. Howardam asked what chance it has for statewide basis when the counties and municipality's turn it down cold. Bob Garrett from Coca -cola was the next speaker in opposition of the bottle legislation. Tor. Garrett said that he is general manager of the associated coca -cola bottling company. !r. Garrett said they have producing centers in Syracuse, Albany and 8 sales centers are served from the plants, Cortland which covers Ithaca. Nr. Garrett said that he agreed with what tr. Chiles said, and stated that they do have returnable bottles in every territory M which they do business, and most food stores have cooperated, however 90, in of the sales are in nonreturnable bottles. Mr. Garrett said if this law was passed the soft drink industry in N. Y. S. it would take approximately 250 million dollars to convert to an all returnable system, at todays prices of money, alot would drop by the wayside. 11Tr. Garrett said they would then need new machinery, because most industries are not equipped to do all sizes of return - ables. Mr. Garrrett said that it would also be a complete change over for the glass company, and would probably be devasting to them if it were possible to do so. The I1Iidwest Research Institute said "A national ban on one -way bottles and cans would have a negative 10 billion dollar impact on this country. A loss of $800 million dollars in taxes, and would cause a loss of more than 1609000 jobs. Pair. Garrett said that California, a neighbor of Oregon, has defeated this legislation several times as has over 3,000 other proposals of similar types of legislation. �r. Garrett said that lr. Strausser who is economics Professor of the University of Buffalo, who was on the Committee, and had five hearings throughout N. Y. S. concluded that if passed in Erie County, he did not believe that it would solve the litter problem and would seriously disrupt all of the beverage industry in that county. In Syracuse the papers there have said that it is not in their opinion for a county level, and they recommend recycling. Mr. Garrett said that he would leave with the chairman of the committee a copy of the Americacolog of solid waste. y, which states a system for separation PIr. Stanley Tsapis also spoke and said that he has as interest in �3ottle Legislation. _Xr. Tsapis said that most business people are very conservative people because they invest their money. 'x. Tsapis said that he is a Lawyer and also a partner of Art Milligan's store, and they can sell beer for "1.10 in non - returnable bottles. fir. Tsapis said that he would like very much to see some kind of legislation passed, but not county wide, he would like to see an Oregon experiment possibly or Vermont. ?r. Tsapis said that he and his partner are concerned that they are trying to compete with the counties around. July 16, 197+ Tompkins County and. they would have to nay more if all returnable bottles were used. 1r. Tsapis said that nationwide, or statewide legis�loanio�o�.00ld be more to his liking because if it were only county fory30 people 1 less. If , nT ewgYork� to the neighboring county if they can get State were going to pass the legislation that would be fine, but 'he doesn't want to see Tompkins County experimenting frith his money. ^fir. Milligan said. that they do have returnables in the store, the ratio in soda is 25`", beer is less than 2% in returnables. Mr. McClain read a portion from the New York Times, July 8, 197+: "In the New York City Council a proposed law to require returnable beverage containers has been sponsored by 28 councilmen, well over a majority of the 44 member volume. The bill known as: Intro No. 345, has the enthusiastic backing of many councilmen who say they would like to stop the growing litter and garbage problems, caused by cans and bottles tossed away after one use. Intro 345 is given no chance of becoming a law "It's going no place" said, a source close to the council. It is politically dangerous. Bills almost identical to Intro No. 345 have been introduced across the country in the last few years, as the tide of non- returnables increased sharply, but most ecause of one of the most intensive lobbying campaigns of these bills have died b council cosponsored the le in recent history. A majority of the legislation that is the massive industry lobbying campaign that makes it politically dangerous and gives it very little chance of being passed, gr. McClain said that during; the past several weeks he has attended meetings and met privately frith people in favor and opposed to the proposed beverage container deposit la-vr. Mr. McClain said that he was at the meeting to talk about facts versus innuendo. The facts have been carefully documented by two professors of Oregon University published in March 1974. The Oregon State tniv(-rsity study based their conclusions on three primary sources: 1)the Oregon liquor control commission 2)the Oregon State highway division 3)their own survey of 100% of the licensed malt beverage distributors, 100% of the r_`r. licensed soft drink bottlers and 100 retailers in the state of Oregon. rClain then compared some innuendo with .facts. He strongly supports the 2�� beverage container deposit legislation but wanted to advise the commission that things can be said without knowledge or fact. Mr. McClain said that there is not one shread of evidence that indicates the people of Oregon have any reason to be sorry that their container legislation was passed. Mr. Garrett read a portion of the editorial of the Post Standard, 'lay 7, 1974, which was a reversal by Dr. Strausser on containers: "An interesting reversal of position by consultant, an introduction of new data are expected to have an impact of the Erie County legislation when they vote today on a bill that prohibits throw away beverage containers. An earlier meeting on the measure ended in a deadlock. Last summer Erie County executive Edi-rard Raegen commissioned Dr. Strausser., an economic professor at the University of Pittsford, to make a study of the feasibility of a ban on one -wav containers. Subsequently, Dr. Strausser, a former University of Buffalo professor recommended that Erie County enact legislation to prevent the sale of beverages in such containers. But last Friday, Dr. Strausser announced that he had new information as a result of additional research and he was changing his mind. Among other things he said that he had found out from manufacturers that the price of beer and soft drinks in returnable bottles would be h.ipher than in non- returnables, contrary to what he had earlier reported. Also lie declared that the anti- litter goals of the proposed legislation probably would not be achieved, for example: he declared that litterers -T-rho now are throvincr, beer cans along road ways and other places, might be'throwing Qlass bottles instead. Dr. Strausser said also that throw away containers purchased in other counties still could be used in Erie County and also would be potential. litter. This is similar to one of the problems in Vermont, where there is a statewide ban on non - returnable containers. Vermonters can buy beverages in the prohibited bottles and cans in adjacent states and eventually disgard the container in Vermont. Dr. Strausser stated that many people just don't return their beer and soft drink containers even though they may be of the returnable type. Since they are bulker and heavier he says waste disposal would be increased. I wish I could have shown something; else, Dr. Strausser declared, the possibility that this proposed ban won't wore is too high I believe." QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD After all parties had stated their opinion on the Bottle Legislation, a question and answer period was then held. Several points were made as follolls: -7 July 16, 1974 Mr. Vincent Giordano said that we are doing it here in the City of Ithaca, and Tompkins County. Mr. Giordano said he foirg,ht for the commission for 4 ,years as past president, and also as director of Challenge industry for 4 or 5 years to give the handicap people some work in the City of Ithaca. TATe've got a fine system and the people are carrying the bottles back. The handicap people enjoy doing the work. 14r. Giordano said they are not having the bottles dumped in landfill areas, and they get at least 65� of the bottles. Lir. Giordano said that they collect bottles from the City, Lansing, Trumansburg and Interlaken. Air. Giordano said that when he was director of Challenge Industries the money from the bottles kept the industry going. Mrs. Daley explained to everyone attending the Committee meeting that what is being discussed is the proposal for Tompkins County, that the Commission is just trying to form an opinion, from the information they are getting so that they can give a recommendation. AZrs. Daley said that the Commission was not forming a legislation, but that they do have representatives on the County Environmental Management Commission who will act for the Commission. 1,1rs. Legrace Benson of the Board of Representatives said that the County at this time is studying the problem. The county does not have any proposed legislation and probably will not have any proposed legislation for some time. Mrs. Benson said the county is studying the problem of safety standpoints, of resources,economic standpoint, and from awareness of the _problems that would arise in storage, etc. 14m. Benson said the county does not have any legislation for ban, for deposit, or mandatory refillables, etc. because at present they are studying the problems associated with litter landfill, etc. , Several comments were made on how the retailers would store the returnable bottles and where they would store them. Several people seem to think that this would definitely create a problem. '_ -like Hall said that he had a couple points to make. Mr. Hall asked two questions: 1)The first question was to _lr. Garrett asking him if he had to wait in line for gas last winter; the answer was yes 2)The second was to ;Ir. Yengo asking him if he had ever complained about the cost eoflfuel heat his business; the answer was obviously. Mr. Hall said that he thinks the �. central issue is enery, we can live with bottles up to our ears but we can't live without oil, and people should be concerned about saving energy. Tim Ray asked Mr. Chiles, what were some of the reasons for lov tri.n(return) rate. Mz. Chiles then answered that the Coca -cola company which manufactures. Syrups, sets standards for a bottle, for all the coca -cola bottles through the country. The Cola company has no control over the bottle itself, TvIr. Chiles said,that the problem as he sees it, is the changing consumer attitude, deposit has been increased to 10¢ and as yet there has been no increase in return rate. Alderman ieyer asked the following qeestion of any beverage representative: Would you not agree that besides the energy we are also talking about a life style problem and the litter problem, Y problem, and the life style problem is very relative to the relationship of the economic situation countryl de and the programming of these economics by business. Would as the Count was you not agree that just Y programmed into throw 1111,1173, they can be prrgrammed out of the throw aways but they aren't going to do it unless it is legislated, because it is a larger issue then just a lot of people being nice people doin,n this kind of turnabout after they have over 20 years been programmed into throw away concept. The answer was that if the consumer wants the product in a paper bag that is how he will get it. Alderman Meyer than said. that from that answer as she sees it, we, the consumer have to are willing to go through the bin of prove to combanies that people P programming back into returnables. rs. Daley's response to Alderman Meyer's question was as follows: When talking about a life style it has been proven, 'low many gears has everyone been involved in keeping American Beautiful program, people have proven over and over a ,�' the litter program, gain that ,, are not interested in this litter problem and that is why the commission met trying to find a r, *edge to force people to do the things that they should do on their otm. `Thee have obviously chosen this life style and if they want to live like to do about it except Pigs, what are You noing P go to legislation. Alderman Meyer said the issue is beyond litter. _8- July 16, 1974 4r. McClain said that in Oregon the return rate in 1972 on soft drink containers was 80% return rate, in 1973 it was 92 return rate, in the meanwhile what happened was the law was passed, and people all.of a sudden were behaving; differently because everybody was expected to return the containers. Mr. Jerry Fielding stated at the meeting in 1967 Canada Dry was all returnable and they loved them, they made good money on them, they had good prices, and had a good market. The retailers would ask for nonreturnable containers. The interest keeps rising and as the competition increased Canada Dry deeded non - returnables to compete. Tyr. Giordano stated that in 1965, 66 and 67 when everyone was asking and goin p- to non- returnables it was for sanitation reasons. The bot.tles that were returned may not have been cleaned properly, even though, there were sanitary restrictions. Mr. Giordano also said that he had at least 100 employees and. after work most of his employees will pick up a beer to drink after work and they aren't going to take the bottle home to their wives.to return. Mr. Garrett said they do have strict sanitation regulations at Coca -cola and they are inspected regularly by the state, and he wanted to assure the public that the bottles are clean. "sirs. Daley asked Mr. Golden if the can eater, is something that there is a possibility for in the near future. Mr. Golden sairl that., it is being developed and that is all he knows, and there was another machine that was invented in Norway, that sorts the bottles and cans and issues receipts to customers. One statement was made, that if refillable cans or bottles are used, the mixture that goes into the bottles does not have to be changed, and companies do not necessarily need new equipment. The law does not state what type of container that the drink has to be in, as ion-, as it is returnable. A question was brought out regarding the use of plastic bottles for Coca -Cola. It is being experimented with in New England, but that is all that is known at this time. Pepsi Cola also is trying the plastic bottle in Las Vegas, and in Philadelphia and one of the southern cities and it is a long way off. The plastic bottle doesn't have a good appeal to customers. It was decided that the commission would have to discuss this matter at another meeting, with the information that they had learned from the speakers. On a motion the meeting was adjourned. Nancy R. Heye , Acting Seo�,etary PROCEEDINGS OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION Regular Meeting 7:30 P.M. September 17, 1974 PRESENT_: Joy Daley, Chairman Alderman Nancy Meyer Lawrence Bach Michael Hall Ex- Officio Member - Alderman Anne Jones ABSENT: Vincent Giordano Timothy Ray MINUTES: By Lawrence Bach; seconded by Michael Hall RESOLVED, that the minutes of the May 21, 1974 and July 16, 1974 meetings stand approved as recorded by the City Clerk. Carried REPORT ON BIKEWAYS: Michael Hall reported that the bikeways is in the hands of two professors working with Mr. Van Cort as a class project. The project has not been started. Alderman Meyer added that the work that is going to be done on the bikeways will fit into the decision regarding the D.P.W. maintanence garage. This will keep the waterfront exposed as a possible location for the bikeway. Alderman Meyer added that the nearby D.O.T. facilities have landscaped their front yard nicely, but they have used the water side of their property as their main piling yard. By Nancy Meyer: seconded by Lawrence Bach RESOLVED, that the Environmental Commission write a letter after Nancy Meyer and Michael Hall meet with D.O.T. requesting that they move their fence back 10 feet and remove the piles or cover their piles with shrubbery. Carried Alderman Meyer further stated that there were two purposes here; 1. we get the landscaping for the visual and 2. would be making preparation for access to the bike path. REPORT ON PAPER RECYCLING: Alderman Meyer reported that she attended a meeting of the Charter and Ordinance Committee and has talked with Jack Dougherty and they are going to work up 'something to bring back to Charter and Ordinance, which would be mandatory separation. Alderman Meyer stated they would have to take the whole refuse section of the code and revise it. They will likely have mandatory se : -radon and private carters picking up paper maybe once a month. This wou d allow for Kiwanis to have their four yearly pick -ups. Newspaper will be all that is picked up. Alderman Meyer remarked that if they get this off the ground then they will pursue metal. Joy Daley felt that education was also a part of the.Commissions role in gaining 100% participation. Discussion was raised - regarding obtaining funds from the Budget and Finance Committee for educational and materials purpose which are specific to environmental matters. It was suggested that some- one be hired or volunteer to work on this problem. Alderman Jones suggested the Commission could ask for their own budget then get with someone about hiring part -time help. Joy Daley stated that unless the project is news worthy the media will drop it. 1975 BUDGET: Alderman Meyer restated the D.P.W. maintanence garage and D.O.T. problem as a viable stand for the 1975 budget. Michael Hall felt it would take 3,500.00 to run a decent program. Hall added that 2,500.00 would pay an assistant working 15 hrs. a week from Cornell, and to run a publicity campaign. He figured it would cost 1,000.00 above that to send them to all the conferences they should go to, and provide office supplies and other necessary things to run the operation. Joy Daley raised the question of whether this is necessary, is this the way we want to go? Lawrence-Bach felt that through Planning they could attack environmental problems. The place to get environmental concern into the system is through Planning. Alderman Jones restated that the Commission is not associated with anybody and they need to be. Alderman Jones also recommended that they not ask for money for a salary, but rather eventually have the associated person ask for salary money, but that you have money for some kind of services in the budget that can be drawn on and channeled through a city department rather than the descretion of the Commission. By Nancy Meyer: seconded by Lawrence Bach RESOLVED, that we request in the 1975 budget a total sum of 2,550.00 with an allocation of: 50.00 Literature and Supplies 500.00 Travel and Conferences 2000.00 Contractual Services under the auspicious of the Planning director and his staff. Alderman IZeyer wanted to make it clear that the Planning Department would be the facilitator but not the spokesman. Carried UNFINISHED BUSINESS BOTTLE LEGISLATION: A discussion took place on the floor with the following resolution being presented. By Michael Hall: seconded by Lawrence Bach RESOLVED, that the Environmental Commission go on record as supporting the county effort in drafting a refurriable bottle legislation. Carried COUNTY r(ANAGEI•ZENT COMMISSION: The Environmental Commission will invite Mr. Earle to speak at their next meeting, and set up a program for at least a few months. ,- Jichael Hall offered to check with Environmental Education at Cornell about some possible services needed of their students for projects. He said there was also a possibility that Cornell would sponsor a student and take the load off of the city. NEW BUSINESS: There was no new business. C0I01UNI CATI ONS : Syracuse Conference, September 20, 21, and 22, 1974 - no one was able to attend. Syracuse Conference, October 19, and 20, 1974 - Joy Daley will attend and Michael Hall May be able to attend the evening sessions. Cornell Coal P _ ;.e Joy Daley reported that Cornell is having problems in not getting the right kind of coal. They have the dam built and are looking into an underground tank system. The runoff would not be a problem if they could get the quality coal they need. Cornell looked into changing their plant into natural gas or oil but the energy crisis called a halt to the idea. By Michael Hall: seconded by Lawrence Bach RESOLVED, that the Commission urge Common Council at it's next meeting to pass a resolution supporting Cornell University's efforts to reopen the rail line. Carried On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 9:46 P.M. /Jose City Clerk