HomeMy WebLinkAboutMN-CAC-1974PROCEEDINGS OF TFIE ENVIRONMiTAL COMMISSION
Regular Meeting
PRESENT: Voting Members:
NOR MEMBERS OATH OF OFFICE
7:30 P.M.
Lawrence Bach - Chairman
Vincent Giordano
Joy Daley
Alderman Nancy Meyer
Michael Hall
Timothy Ray
April 16, 1974
Michael Ball and Timothy Ray took the Oath of Office and were seated on the
Commission.
ELECTION OF OFFICEPS
Chairman Bach asked for nominations from the floor for Chairman and Vice Chairman.
By Nancy Meyer seconded by Vincent Giordano,
RESOLVED, That Joy Daley be nominated for Chairman.
By Joy Daley seconded by Vincent Giordano,
RESOLVED, That Nancy Meyer be nominated for Vice Chairman.
By Michael Hall seconded by Timothy Pay,
RESOLVED, That the nominations be closed and that the Secretary cast one vote
for the nominees.
Carried
COMMUNICATIONS
Chairman Bach read a letter from Commissioner James L. Biggane:
February 22, 1974
Dear Mr. Bach:
Since the Department of Environmental Conservation was formed during 1970, the
local conservation commission program has grown to include 760 city, town, and
village commissions and 27 county and regional environmental management councils.
The success of the program is giving rise to forecasts of increased financial
support from the legislature this session.
These are strong indications that conservation commissions have achieved consid-
erable stature within a very short time. As the State's new Commissioner of
Environmental Conservation, I want to express my appreciation for the many
accomplishments that have been made, and also to assure you of my support during
the time ahead.
So that the Department can keep in closer touch with the activities of the
Commissions, I have asked out regional offices to assist you even more than they
have in the past. Our nine regional directors will now be handling many of the
communications that have been coming to you from the Department's headquarters
in Albany, In addition, where state aid and reimburseua,nt are concerned, including
cooperative projects, the necessary applications will be reviewed and approved
at the regional level rather than in Albany, thus ensuring on our part a more
responsive effort to meet your needs. And, of course, the regional offices will
continue to offer all possible technical assistance in your programs.
I hope you will feel frae to call on our Director for Region 7, William Hicks,
or his community relations representative Carol Meusgeier, for any help you
might need. They can be reached at 100 Elwood Davis Road, Syracuse, New York
13212, telephone (315) 473 -8301.
Sincerely,
J. L. Biggme
Commissioner
April 16, 1974
Chairman Bach read a letter from Cornell University°
April 3, 1974
Mayor Edward Conley
City Ball
Ithaca, New York 14850
Dera Mayor Conley:
In the last two years Cornell Universtty has been operating a recycling program
which recycles glass and paper. An integral and very important part in our
program is Ithaca Scrap Processors. Ithaca Scrap Processors collects all of
our paper and glass so that they may be sold to those mills who recycle these
materials. Without Ithaca Scrap Processors, or an equivalent operation in the
city, the Cornell recycling program would no doubt come to an end. This would
be a tragic event, especially in a period of time whien the general public is
becoming more aware of the need to conserve its resources.
Mrs. Weber, the owner of Ithaca Scrap Processors, appears to be very civic
minded and a person dedicated to conserving our natural resources, including
the public landscape. She has stated a willingness to comply with the zoning
ordinances and fire codes if given the tine to do so. Any assistance that
your office could provide that would enable Ithaca Scrap Processors to be
given time to comply with these regulations would be very much appreciated
by those of us at Cornell concerned with the recycling progran.
Thank you in advance for your assistance with regard to this matter.
Sincerely,
R2,-chard T. Fauntleroy
Administrative Aide
cc: Building Commissioner
Board of Zoning Appeals
Planning Board
Environmental Commission
Board of Appeals, Fire Codes
By Nancy Meyer seconded by Joy Daley
RESOLVED, That this letter be referred to the Common Council's Charter and
Ordinance Committee.
Carried Unanimously
EIIVIRONIMMAL MAr1AGEME�?T COUNCIL APPOINTIMIT
Chairman Bach appointed Timothy Ray to represent the Invironmental Commission.
NYSACC HEI38ERSHIP
By Timothy Ray seconded by Joy Daley,
RESOLVEED, That the Environmental Commission of the City of Ithaca appropriates
$50.00 for a municipal membership in the Mew York State Association of Conserva-
tion Commissions.
Carried Unanimously
A?INUAL REPORT ACCEPTANCE
By Nancy Meyer seconded by Joy Daley,
RESOLVED, That the Annual Report for 1973 as submitted by Chairman Bach be
accepted.- (See copy attached to minutes)
Carried Unanimously
RECYCLI;IG PROGRAMS
'fancy Heyer reported on the progress of the recycling programs to date.
GOALS kM CURRENT ISSUES
A list of goals and current issues was suggested as follows:
1. Reaffirms direction given by Council given in the orginal formation.
-3- April 16, 1974
2. Continued surveillance of the Cass Park developments.
3. Support of recycling efforts on part of the City and /or private groups.
4. Exploration and possible development of Rikeways.
S. Support and interest in Hass Transit.
6. Sewage Treatment and quality of lake water.
7. Air pollution
S. Support of tree replacement.
9. Bottle legislation.
19. Concern for reuse of Stewart Park for swimmin -,.
11. Citizen use of all natural resources.
ST171ART PARK SWITRII ?G.
By Vincent Giordano seconded by Timothy Rays
P.ESOLVED, That the City of Ithaca Environmental Commission go on record of favor-
ing Commissioner Clynes resolution to restore swi:-.ning at Stewart Park.
ICE, SKATING
Nancy Meyer suggested exploring the possibility of ice skating on the flood
control channel and other outdoor areas.
RESOLUTIGN OF APPRECIATION
By Vincent Giordano seconded by T4ichael Hall,
RESOLVED,, That Challenge Industries, Kiwanis Club and all other citizens and
agencies involved in recycling be commended for their efforts.
BI..XETaAY P%CSENTATIOF?
By Nancy Meyer seconded by Joy Daley,
RESOLVED, That Mike ?call prepare a presentation in open form for the May 21, 1174,
meeting on the whole concept of Bikeways and that in his presentation he contact
both the Finger Lakes State Parks Commission and the Ithaca City Planning Dept.
and other interested groups working on Bikeways.
Carried
ENVIROMMKITAL EDUCATION CAMP.
By Vincent Giordano seconded by Michael Hall,
RESOLVED, That the Environmental Commission of the City of Ithaca appropriates
$60.00 to send a boy to the Environmental Education Camp.
On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 9o15 P.?i.
Carried Unanimously
j-
J ph A. Rundle, City Clerk
PROCEEDINGS OF THE EiIVIRO ? !MB1TAL COnIISSION
Regular Meeting 7:30 P.M. May 21, 1974
PRESENT: Voting Hembers: Joy Daley - Chairman
Alderman Nancy Meyer - Vice Chairman
Lawrence Bach
Vincent Giordano
Tlichael Hall
Ex- Officio Member - Anne Jones
ABSENT: Voting Member- Timothy Ray
OTHERS PRESENT: H. Hatthys Van Cort - Director of Planning
INUTES. Joy Daley reported that an error was made by the City Clerk in re-
cording the.Environmental Education Camp Resolution. The resolution should
read: RESOLVED, That Vincent Giordano look into the possibility of securing
the necessary funds from private groups ($60.00) to send a boy to the
Environmental Education Camp.
By Lawrence Bach: seconded by Michael hall,
RESOLVED, That the minutes of the April 16, 1974 meeting be approved as
corrected.
REPORT O'i7 ENVIROWENTAL CALHP
Vincent Giordano reported that h
to see if they would sponsor a b
thought that it was a wonderful
Board meeting for approval. Mr.
deadline and it would be to late
suggested that this be placed on
AINNUAL BUDGET
carried
Poproached two fraternal organizations
�y. Mr. Giordano said that the organizations
dea, but they would have to take it to their
Giordano said this fell beyond the May 1,
to send a boy to camp this year. Mr. Giordano
the agenda and that it be pursued next year.
City Clerk Rundle reported that Common Council passed the Annual Budget
May 1, and reduced the Environmental Commissions allocation to $50.00 from
a request of $300.00. The resolution of April 16, 1974 to join the New York
State Association of Conservation Commissions for $50.00'will use up the
entire budget for 1974. The clerk also pointed out that in order to pay for
this membership, the Environmental Commission will have to request the
Common Council's Budget and Administration Committee to transfer $50.00 from
account A -4090 310 Office Supplies to 436 Dues, Memberships and Publications.
By Vincent Giordano: seconded by Aancy Meyer,
RESOLVED, That the payment for membership to the New York State Association
of Conservation Commissions be cancelled.
AYES - (1) Giordano
NAYS - (4) Hall, Daley, Bach, Neyer
Aiotion Defeated
-2- `:ay 21, 1974
2y Nancy Meyer; seconded by Vincent Giordano,
RESOLVED, That the Environmental Commission request Council for $50.00
to pay for membership in -Jew York State Association of Conservation
Commmissions leaving a balance of $50.00 in case any small amounts are needed.
Carried
REPORT ON PAPER RECYCLING
Nancy I4eyer gave a progress report on the paper recycling; program in the
co-mun i ty .
REPORT Oil SOUTH HILL PAPER DRIVE
Fancy 11eyer reported that 1500 lbs. of paper was collected in a two week
period.
REPORT FROM AREA BEAUTIFICATION COUNCIL TP.EE COMMITTEE
I4r. Van Cort remarked that seven meetings have been held and the committee
is in the process of preparin a tree survey forri. The form will be
tested and if successful, the whole city will be surveyed and all street
trees will be cataloged as to species, size, etc. This will give an
updated inventory and can rationally go about the business of replanting Ithaca
because of all the Elm trees thy*_ have been lost. Mr. Van Cort remarked
that voluntary groups would probe_. -y be used to conduct the tree survey.
LALL RESOLUTION
By Vincent Giordano seconded by Nancy Meyer,
RESOLVED, That the Environmental Commission go on record urging the Board
of Public Works and CoL -neon Council to accept the bid for tha Ball, and to
proceed with construction.
Carried Unanimously
BII:E WAYS PRESENTATION
Mike Hall gave an excellent bike ways presentation using a map and slides
to shaa the potential the Ithaca area has in developing a bike way. After
the presentation an open discussion took place on the floor.
By Vincent Giordano seconded by Lawrence Bach,
I?:I'SOLVED, That the City of Ithaca Environmental Commissions absolutely backs
the idea of proposed bike ways in Ithaca and surroundinry areas and will do
everything in its utmost power to help such bike ways become a reality,
&4D FURTHER RESOLVED, That Bike Hall be appointed Chairruan of the Bice Way
Committee and give him the permission to enlist the aid of a group of local
citizens that are interested to help promote a bike way system.
Carried Unanimously
On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 9<10) P.M.
J �eph, A. Rundle, City Clerk
PROCEEDINGS r-' THE ENVIRONIMENTAL COISIISSION
REGULAR MEETING 7:30 P.M. July 7.6, 1974
PRESENT: Joy Daley, Chairman
Alderman Nancy 111eyer
Michael Hall
Timothy Ray
Vincent Giordano
ABSENT: Lawrence Bach
OTHERS PRESENT: Alderman John.Gutenberger
itrs. Legrace Benson
PAPER COLLECTION:
Alderman Meyer gave a report of paper collection. Alderman 'Meyer reported that
the Planning and Development Committee has met with the Department of Public
Works and at this point they talked about who might be interested in the
collection of paper in the City. Alderman Meyer reported that Mr. Irving has
looked into it and there are people in the City who are interested. Alderman
Beyer stated that they haven't met again as a committee. Alderman Meyer
said that she thinks that because of the economic complications she is going to
recommend that a system be set up for mandatory separation and possibly licensing
private carters, sort of a scavenger license. Alderman Meyer reported that it
is just a suggestion, that the Planning and Development Committee has to hear
it and the Department has to hear it.
BIKEWAYS:
:4ike Hall reported on the Bikeways in the City. Mike Hall stated that the
Bike Committee has met since the last meeting of Environmental Commission with
the Planning Department and all the volunteer help as well as the Ithaca
Planning Department was present at the meeting. TUke Hall reported that the
Bike Committee had decided.to continue to look at the subject of bikeways this
summer and continue with publicity, but that this Fall they would enlist
the help of a planning class at Cornell to study the needs of cyclists in
Ithaca with the idea of coming up with a well thought out plan so that a pitfall
wouldn't be run in to. Mr. Hall stated that the Bike Committee wants to set
up bikeways of the class 3 level, which are bikeways that are marked along the
roadways to warn motorists and to act as guides so that cyclists will have routes
to follow. Also a class 1 which will run to Cass Park. Mike Hall reported that
the Bike Committee will meet again in August but that the next important
thing that will happen will be the class picking it up and finding out what the
needs are. Mike Hall stated that a proposal will be drawn up and can be
referred to Common Council to ask for funds and then possibly start next
Spring. ir. Hall also stated that in the next few years he hopes to see
Bikeways between all the state parks, and now the State is getting interested
in it, because there is so much local support.
COiJDITY BOARD:
Timothy Ray reported that he has been working with I,4x. Cary who is on the
County Board regarding bikeways. IZr. Ray stated that they have researched into
who owns the Lehigh Valley Railway as far as up to Geneva which is the Cass
Park bedway. Mr. Ray said that it is owned by N. Y. S. E. & G. all the way
up to Geneva who bought it in 1960. :11r. Ray said that about after 2 miles out
of town there is nothing on the bedway all the way up to Geneva, it is used
for nothing. Air. Ray said there is also the old Lackawana that goes south out
of Ithaca and goes down toward Owego, it goes all the way to Caroline with
nothing on it. Mr. Ray said that in speaking to Mr. Cary some of the problems
that have arose have been quite extensive with the people complaining about
motorcycles and snowmobiles. 1,1r. Ray said that using the railway for
recreational purposes, such as biking, hiking, etc. 111r. Cary is very interested
to go to the State with this. 14r. Ray reported that he will now get together
with Mr. Hall and his committee.
ENVIRON'�EWTAL CAI ,T: No report
ANNUAL BUDGET:
Alderman Meyer reported that Common Council did allocate another $50.00 for the
Environmental Commission. Alderman Meyer reported that they do have the dues
paid now to the New York State Association of Conservation Commissions and
still have $50.00 if the Committee wants to do any mailing or such, they now
have some financial backing.
-2- July 16, 1974
NEW YORK STATE ELECTRIC AND GAS COAL PLANT
11r. Bach was not present to give a report, however 74r. Ray stated that
speaking with Mr. Cary, that they were looking over the impact statement
that was put together regarding the plant and it seems that when the State
and Federal regulations were put through, it seems that everybody and their
friend gets a copy of the impact statement, but it is surprisinyr that the
City of Ithaca gets none. Mr. Ray said that Mr. Cary had told him that 5
tons of impact statements were printed up and distributed in the State to
certain people. There was a discussion regarding the bonding of money from
New York State Electric and Gas.
By Alderman Meyer: seconded by Mike Hall
RESOLVED, That Common Council investigate the funds available for studying
the impact of the New York State Electric and Gas Plant.
Motion Defeated
NEW BUSINESS
BOTTLE LEGISLATION
Mrs. Daley introduced 117r. John P4cClain who gave a discussion on Bottle
Legislation. I -fr. AcClain introduced himself to the Commission, as a Professor
at Cornell in the Business School, and he is also in the group which calls itself
the Tompkins County Citizens Committee for Returnable Beverage Containers.
. "4r. McClain stated that two participants would speak at the meetinry, they were:
Carol Killian and Forest Golden. Carol `a llian gave a Slide presentation on bottle
legislation. Carol Killian stated that an average family consumes 1,646 bottles
or cans of beer and carbonated soft drinks each year. The `I'omnkins County consumers
are buying most of their beverages in non - returnable bottles and cans. Carol
Killian reported that if non - returnables were outlawed the average family
would save $44.00 per year in beverage purchases. This means that the
consumers in Tompkins County could save at least $800,000 per year. Carol.
Killian said that other costs are also involved, those being: litter
clean -up, solid waste disposal, energy use, and use of ral -y materials. Save
energy by putting the beer back in refillable deposit containers. Each time
an aluminum can is produced 12 kilowat of energy more than that required to
produce a returnable bottle, which is the same as burning a 100 watt lightbulb
for five hours. Massive industry efforts to encourage recycling centers for glass
and cans are generally failing. Recycling beverage containers is neither
practical norprofitable for the consumer or for industry, only 3.7% of about
60 billion throw away beverage containers produced in 1971 were recycled.
A 1972 study by Prof. Bruce Hannan of the University of Illinois showed
that for the entire glass beverage container system, that includes
production, transportation and disposal the returnable system uses much less
energy than both the throw array and the recycling systems. This study was based
on eight return trips per bottle. Recycling beverage containers is not
the answer, especially the aluminum cans. Fverytime we throw acyav 48,000 cans
we rob the American economy of $200 of valuable metal, most of it contributing
to U. S. trade deficit. According to 1970 data for the U. S. Aluminum industry
the production of cans is the number one use in a list of 72 catagories. Carol
Killian reported that there are three good reasons for ending the non - returnable
beverage container:
1) Deposit containers could save the average family $44.00 a year in direct
purchase cost.
2) We can no longer waste the tremendous amount of energy we are spending today
to produce no deposit no return containers.
3) Cost and waste of aluminum a relatively scarce almost totally imported
non renewable natural resource.
The main reason to get rid of non returnable bottles in Canada, Oregon,
Vermont, and neighboring Cayuga County, which is litter.
Carol 1 llian said that aluminum doesn't rust and lasts forever. Several cities
and county's have enacted similar legislations. Cayuga County where New Yore's
-3- July 16, 1974
first enacted deposit law, passed a legislation largely on the litter
issue. The Boy Scouts and other volunteers in Tompkins County have conducted
an impressive litter pick up. In April 1974, 272 miles of roadside were cleaned
up in the County, 100,000 cans and bottles were picked up, laved end to end they
would run from Stewart Park to Milikan Station: 1i.4 miles. The beverage
own public relations campaign "Keep America Beautiful" reports eye - hopping cost.
The Sierra Club sponsored a random telephone survey in June 1974, the
211 people contacted were asked if they would favor a mandatory 5� deposit
on all soft drink and beer containers sold in the County. Almost 68%
were in favor of the proposed legislation, while only 9i' were opposed.
The Sierra Club survey reflects the feelings of other central New Yorkers surveyed
during the past year. The strong majority of those surveyed favored deposit
legislation. Bob Simpkins, Superintendent of Robert H. Trerran State Park, is
100f in favor of a mandatory deposit lair, since the throwaway can, the amount
of litter in the park has grown dramatically along with this has come
increased costs for clean -up and disposal. Erie "?iller, Chairman of the Public
Safety and Correction Committee of the County Board of Representatives has said
"when I was a boy we used to be able to return pop bottles for 2¢ and milk bottles
for 5�, we never found it to be an inconvenience. Today the bottles
and cans litter our roads and land, especially in the country aide now,
kids can't make money picking up these bottles and cans, even if r*irls and
boys (like the Scouts) clean up the roads and then bring them to recycling;
centers more energy would be used to crush, melt and make new containers
than if they were just washed, returned and reused. When I was a kid, there are
some things we did better than we do today, the returnable bottle wag one of
them." Legrace Benson, a member of the County Board of representatives Public
Safety and Correction Committee says "we cannot afford to use scarce m.r.terials
such as bauxite and expensive resources such as electrical energy to
produce cans and bottles which all to quickly become part of the additional
problems of litter and solid waste disposal. Throw aways are a minor
and temporary convenience that we are buying at the price of our future."
In Oregon, the first state to have mandatory deposit legislation, Governor
Tom McClaw has said that the container deposit bill is a "rip roaring; success ".
Since the enactment of the legislation in Oregon beverage container litter has
been reduced by 90`/00
Carol Killian said that when it comes to the debate over throw away containers
versus refillable containers there is one point that even the beverage industry
cannot challenge: the easiest problem to solve is one you never created in
the first place, help decrease solid waste cost, save our natural resources, con-
serve energy, reduce litter, and save yourself money: support the return
of the returnables.
11r. McClain then stated that Forest Golden would make some additional
comments on bottle legislation. Then the opposition would speak.
Mr. Golden then introduced himself. I.1r. Golden is from the City of Auburn
and is a registered professional engineer in the State of lNew York. Mr. Golden
reported that he has been studying bottle legislation for three years now.
Mr. Golden reported that it was three years ago that the Cayuga County
Environmental management council heard about the Oregon landmark decision. It
was in July 1971, and since then an intensive study has been held, and
came up with a 60+ page report and it was issued to the County Environmental
management Committee of the Legislature. Mr. Golder said that as a result
of this report the council recommended to the legislature that the legislature
hold a public hearing, largest public hearing in Cavuga County, was held on
this subject. Prior to the public hearing several surveys were made, which
gave similes results as what Carol i,illian reported, basically 2 /3rds of the
public were in favor of the legislation and most of that was by the litter
issue. Hr. Golden said that after the public hearing it became rather
clear that somebody was weighing "the facts of the Oregon experience ", that
perhaps things couldn't be black or white in Oregon it had to be one way or the
other. Ar. Golden said that he and the other peo -ole who supported the
citizen effort, passed the legislation saying that it was working in Oregon.
The opponents of the legislation said there was a disaster in Oregon, prices
were sky high, litter was up and a number of other things. Consequently,
the Chairman of legislation sent three legislators to Oregon to study the
situation. One of the legislators was an opponent of the le-- gislation,
prior to going because he was in the liquor business, a second one tras
neutral and the third was an involved proponent of the proposed legislation.
Mr. Golden said that they spent several days in Oregon and upon return
-4- Jul',, 16, 197h
.jusly reported that the legislation in Oregon was workint -. This
osslation does not ban cans, it merely requires all containers to be
refundable for a nickel. Vr. Golden said that the vote took place on PTovember
26 in a packed legislative chamber and the vote was affirmative, that on ??ov.
26 the law would go into effect. 14r. Golden said that alot of counties
are now getting involved in bottle leffislat.ion, defeated in one county, active
in Onondaga County, Suffolk County, Oneida County, in Herkimer County, etc.
Bottle legislation has to be started somewhere in New York State and Cavuga County
has passed it. In Albany it has never even gotten out of committee, in four
consecutive years, and it won't ever get out of committee in Albany unless the
heat is put on Albany through public action. ^!r. Golden said that he was in
Vermont last week and Utica Club is selling in Vermont for $1.19, in the City
of Utica, home of the westend brewing company it is selling for w1.29, which
slows that the refillables are less and the people are not driving out of
Vermont to buy throw aways. A small town by the name of Oagland, Ohio;
population, 9,000 has had a deposit law in effect for two vAars or more and it
is working on a city level. ir. Golden said for information and a copy
of the law write to Mr. Dave Sonner, City Councilman, Oa,--,land,- Ohio.
Mr. Golden then read parts of letters from brewing company's, who favor
mandatory container deposit law.
OPPOSITION TO THE BOTTLE LEGISLATION
Carl Yengo, a local businessman in the wholesale beer industry. 11r. Yengo
said that he is for protecting the environment and for improving_; the
environment. "Ir. Yengo said that he feels that the approach to solid
waste, litter and the energy problem cannot be solved on the local
level with the proposed beverage container law. 111r. Yengo stated that
there are many ramifications that are beyond the powers of local. government,
but he suggested the' three "E's ": Education, Enforcement and Equipment to sub-
stantiate his statement P1r. Yengo introduced Mr. Steve Chiles of Coca -Cola
Company. Hr. Chiles said that there are two central issues to the
container deposit legislation., letter and economic issijes. The most
authoritative source that he knows of is the study done in 29 states of this
country by "Keep America Beautiful'' and they found that litter was comprise(9.
of beverage containers by roughly 20 %, which varies greatly with other
figures. 11r. Chiles said that he would like to propose a litter program
that deals with the entire litter problem, and he is working with material taken
from Christopher Giles, who is a recognized national litter control man.
Nir. Chiles said that we think of litter as being connected to ,just two
sources that being pedestrian and motorist, and Pr. Giles has advanced five others:
1)Improper refuse outputs at comet rcial establishments 2)i m,
household refuse put out 3)lack of containment at loading platforms and
unloading platforms 4)uncovered trucks carrying; refuse 5)lack of containment
at construction projects. Mr. Chiles said that ',"r. Giles has worked with
New York City in actual litter control experience. In their actual litter
experience in N. Y. C. they have reduced litter 62°0 on a sustaining basis
within their given areas that they have advanced. NIr. Chiles said that
Mr. Giles set up community programs to include: sanitation codes
to cover the sources of the spread of litter, makin r it easier for people
to dispose of litter properly, educational programs, and better enforcement methods.
Mr. Chiles said too that ,,Ir. Giles feels in accordance with the community, the
State government should, 1)require all -rotor vehicles to carry litter containers
2)require operators of open trucks to cover them when carryin,,,r, loose material
3)require roadside establishments between towns to provide and maintain adequate
litter receptacles. fir. Chiles said that it has been the result of Mr. Giles
experiment that litter has been reduced by 60J. 'this approach seems to be muc'i
more practical than an approach such as a container ban, or deposit
legislation which the Coca -Cola company believes would only reduce litter
by 11 %. %Ir. Chiles also reported on the economic issues involved. In a container
deposit law i:r. Chiles believes the consi=er will pay much more for soft
drinks. If you combine the economic disruption to the packaging industry, to
the beverage manufacturing industry, and to the retail.erz who finally bass this
on to the consumers and total those costs up; it has been found that the consumers
ultimately will pay more for their soft driiiks and their beer that it would
surpass by many times over the total cost today of all litter programs.
nir. Chiles also reported on a study done by Dr. Clark Strausser, Economics
Professor, formerly with the University of Buffalo and retained by Erie
County. It was found in Erie County not to enact the legislation that the price?
of beer and soft drinks in returnable bottles would be higher than the non -
returnables contrary to what he had earlier. reported. "r. Chiles said that
there are over 250 coca -cola can vending machines in this county, it would
automatically put these local merchants right out of the can vending business,
-5- July 16, 197+
they just have no way to collect and control those deposit containers. Mr.
Chiles said that capital expenditures in returnable bottles, cartons and cases,
the obsolescence of coca -cola assets would cost the company in access of
$500,000 to undertake this system. 111r. Chiles also said the final and most
important issue of economics is the decline and rate of return of empty
returnable bottles. Mr. Chiles said that in 1950 the coca -cola company
experience bottle trippage levels, that is the probability that a bottle
will continue to come back, cola bottles were .getting 15 to 20 trips. In 1960
it fell to 10 trips, and currently they are getting five trips, A high
trippage level is the only way that a returnable system will work, if they
don't receive the bottle trippage rate there is .just no way they can see these
products on the market. Consumers in Tompkins County currently have a choice
between the returnanles and nonreturnables, they are overwelmingly choosing the
nonreturnables. Mr. Chiles said that if 68;2 of the consumers prefer the
legislation then why is that 68% of coca -cola drinkers aren't buying a
returnable package. The container deposit legislation in Coca - cola's opinion
does very little to solve the litter problem, the cost to the consumer will be
enormous, the cost of the beverage and container industry x-rill be enormous.
Mr. Chiles asked everyone to consider the type of constructive program proposed
by ir. Giles that was outlined.
The next speaker was 11r. Jerry Howardam from Pepsi Cola Company. Mr. Howardam
said that it is very interesting to note that all the surveys on litter they have
always pointed out carbonated beverages, they forget all about brine bottles,
whiskey bottles, mayonnaise and ketsup. 11r. Howardam said that there are
hundreds of bottles on the shelf that you use and throw away but they single
out the carbonated beverage bottles for all of the litter. In Cayuga County
it was passed by a slim vote - 11 to 10 and the Erie County rejected it by 21
to 7. rir. Howardam said that the cities with the major population are
opposed to bottle legislation and the New York Times had an article on the
proposed legislation. The press has openly stated that it will be defeated in
the City with the highest population in the United States. Mr. Howardam
said that it was rejected in Suffolk County four years ago overwelmingly.
i'r. Howardam asked what chance it has for statewide basis when the counties
and municipality's turn it down cold.
Bob Garrett from Coca -cola was the next speaker in opposition of the bottle
legislation. Ar. Garrett said that he is general manager of the associated
coca -cola bottling; company. Mr. Garrett said they have producing centers
in Syracuse, Albany and 8 sales centers are served from the plants,
Cortland which covers Ithaca. 11r. Garrett said that he agreed with what ter. Chiles
said, and stated that they do have returnable bottles in every territory in
which they do business, and most food stores have cooperated, however 900
of the sales are in nonreturnable bottles. "ir. Garrett said if this law
was passed the soft drink industry in N. Y. S. it would take approximately
250 million dollars to convert to an all returnable system, at todays prices of
money, slot would drop by the wayside. :4r. Garrett said they would then need
new machinery, because most industries are not equipped to do all sizes of return -
ables. Mr. Garrrett said that it would also be a complete change over for the
glass company, and would probably be devasting to them if it were possible
to do so. The Midwest Research Institute said "A national ban on one -way bottles
and cans would have a negative 10 billion dollar im_oact on this country.
A loss of $800 million dollars in taxes, and would cause a loss of more than 160,000
jobs. Mr. Garrett said that California, a neighbor of Oregon, has defeated
this legislation several times as has over 3,000 other proposals of similar
types of legislation. t°r. Garrett said. that Par. Strausser who is economics
professor of the University of Buffalo, who was on the Coma ttee, and had
five hearings throughout N. Y. S. concluded that if passed in Erie County, he
did not believe that it would solve the litter problem and would seriously
disrupt all of the beverage industry in that county. In Syracuse the papers
there have said that it is not in their opinion for a county level, and they
recommend recycling. Mr. Garrett said that he would leave with the chairman
of the committee a copy of the Americacolo*y, which states a system for separation
of solid waste.
Mr. Stanley Tsapis also spoke and said that he has as interest in Bottle
Legislation. Mr. Tsapis said that most business people are very conservative
people because they invest their money. Mr. Tsapis said that he is a Lawyer and
also a partner of Art Milligan's store, and they can sell beer for fi1.10
in non - returnable bottles. 1.4r. Tsapis said that he would like very much to
see some kind of legislation passed, but not county wide, he would like to see
an Oregon experiment possibly or Vermont. :x. Tsapis said that he and his
partner are concerned that they are trying to compete with the counties around.
-�- Jv1y 16, 1974
Tompkins County and. they would have to nay more if all returnable bottles
were used. `°,r. Tsapis said that nationwide, or statewide legislation would be
more to his liking because if it were only county, people are Roing to go
to the neighboring county if they can get it for 30fi less. If Few York
State were going to pass the legislation that would be fine, but 'le doesn't
want to see Tompkins County experimenting with his money. "Ir. Milligan sai(I.
that they do have returnables in the store, the ratio in soda is 25', beer is
less than 2% in returnables.
?dr. McClain read a portion from the New York Times, July 8, 1974:
"In the New York City Council a proposed law to require returnable beverage
containers has been sponsored by 28 councilmen, well over a ma,iority of the
44 member volume. The bill known as: Intro Ho. 345, has the enthusiastic backinn
of many councilmen who say they would like to stop the growing litter and
garbage problems, caused by cans and bottles tossed away after one use.
Intro 345 is given no chance of becoming a law "It's goin!7 no place" saic?.
a source close to the council. It is politically dangerous. Bills almost
identical to Intro No. 345 have been introduced across the country in the
last few years, as the tide of non- returnables increased sharply, but most
of these bills have died because of one of the most intensive lobbying campaigns
in recent history. A majority of the council cosponsored the legislation
that is the massive industry lobbying campaign that makes it politically dangerous
and gives it very little chance of being passed, r4r. McClain said that
during; the past several weeks he has attended meetings and met privately ti*ith
people in .favor and opposed to the proposed beverage container deposit l.a,,T.
Ar. '.cClain said that he was at the meeting to talk about facts versus
innuendo. The facts have been carefully documented by two professors
of Oregon University published in `March 1974. . The Oregon State University
study based their conclusions on three primary sources: 1)the Oregon liquor
control commission 2)the Oregon State highway division 3)their own
survey of 100% of the licensed malt beverage distributors, 1001, of the
licensed soft drink bottlers and 400 retailers in the state of Oregon. '''r.
`IrClain then compared some innuendo with facts. lie strongly sup -orts the
beverage container deposit le 7islation but wanted to advise the commission
that things can be said without knowl.edgn or fact. '`4r. McClain said that there
is not one shread of evidence that indicates the people of Orerron have anv
reason to be sorry that their container legislation was passed.
'4r. Garrett read a portion of the editori=.1 of the Post Standard, :'ay 7, 1974,
which was a reversal by Dr. Strausser on containers: "An interesting* reversal
of position by consultant, an introduction of net,, data are expected to have
an impact of the Erie County legislation when they vote today on a bill
that prohibits throw away beverage containers. An earlier meeting on the
measure ended in a deadlocl_. Last summer Erie County executive Edward Raegen
commissioned Dr. Strausser, an economic professor at the University of
Pittsford, to make a study of the feasibility of a ban on one -wa,v containers.
Subsequently, Dr. Strausser, a former University of Buffalo professor recommended
that Erie County enact legislation to prevent the sale of beverages in such
containers. But last Friday, Dr. Strausser announced that he had new
information as a result of additional research and he was changing his
mind. Among other things he said that he had found out from manufacturers that
the price of beer and soft drinks in returnable bottles would be hArzher than in
non - returnables, contrary to what he had earlier reported. Also he declared
that the anti- litter goals of the proposed legislation probably would not be
achieved, for example: he declared that litterers -uho now are throainry
beer cans along road ways and other places, might be throwing glass bottles
instead. Dr. Strausser said also that thro-v away containers purchased in other
counties still could be used in Frie County and also would be potential. litter.
This is similar to one of the problems in Vermont, where there is a statewide
ban on non - returnable containers. Vermonters can buy be veranes in the
prohibited bottles and cans in adjacent states and eventually disgard the
container in Vermont. Dr. Strausser stated that many peonle just don't
return their beer and soft drink containers even though they may be of the
returnable type. Since they are bulker and heavier he says waste disposal
would be increased. I wish I could have shown somethin,7� else, Dr. Strausser
declared, the possibility that this proposed ban won't wor's is too high I
believe."
QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD
After all parties had stated their opinion on the Bottle Legislation, a question
and answer period was then held. Several noints were made as follot.rs:
-7- July 161, 1974
f�lr. Vincent Giordano said tliat ve are doing- it here in the City of Ithaca, and
Tompkins County. Mr. Giordano said he fouv�,it for the commission for 4 years as
past president, and also as director of Challenge Industry for 4 or 5 years to
give the handicap people some work in the City of Ithaca. We've got a fine
system and the people are carrying the bottles back. The handicap people
enjoy doin; the work. 24r. Giordano said they are not having the bottles
dumped in landfill areas, and they get at least 65") of the bottles. 11,r.
Giordano said that they collect bottles from the City, Lansing, Trurnansburg
and Interlaken. Ar. Giordano said that when he was director of Challenge
Industries the money from the bottles kept the industry going.
3lrs. Daley explained to everyone attending the Committee meeting that what
is bein,^7 discussed is the proposal for Tompkins County, that the
Commission is just tryinf* to form an opinion, from the information they
are getting so that they can give a recommendation. airs. Daley said that
the Commission was not forming a legislation, but that they do have representatives
on the County Environmental Management Commission who will act for the Commission.
'_lrs. Legrace Benson of the Board of Representatives said that the County at
this time is studying the problem. The county does not have any -proposed
legislation and probably will not have any proposed legislation for
some time. -Mrs. Benson said the county is studying the problem of safety
standpoints, of resources,economic standpoint, and from awareness of the problems
that would arise in storage, etc. 14rs. Benson said the county does not
have any legislation for ban, for deposit, or mandatory refillables, etc.
because at present they are studying the problems associated. with litter,
landfill, etc.
Several comments were made on how the retailers would store the returnable bottles
and where they would store them. Several Deople seem to think that this
would definitely create a problem.
',like Hall said that he had a couple points to make. Ir. Hall asked two
questions: 1)The first question was to 1r. Garrett asking him if he had to wait:
in line for gas last winter; the answer was yes 2)The second. question
was to 'ir. Yengo asking him if he had ever complained about the cost of fuel to
heat his business; the answer was obviously. '?r. hall said that he thinks the
central issue is energy, we can live with bottles up to our ears but we can't
live without oil, and people should be concerned about saving energy.
Tim Ray asked Mr. Chiles, what were some of the reasons for 1.07'7 tri.n(ret.urn)
rate. Tlr. Chiles then answered that the Coca -cola company which manufactures .
syrups, sets standards for a bottle, for all the coca -cola bottles through
the country. The Cola company has no control over the bottle itself, I,lr. Chiles
said. that the problem as he sees it, is the changing; consumer attitude,
deposit has been increased to 10¢ and as ,yet there has been no increase in
return rate.
Alderman 1,ieyer asked the folloYving qeestion of any beverage representative:
Would you not agree that besides the energy problem and tJ.. litter problem,
we are also talking; about a life style problem, and the life style problem is
very relative to the relationship of the economic situation countrywide and the
programming of these economics by business. Would you not agree that just
as the County was programmed into throw fiva.gs, they can be porggrammed out of the
throw aways but they aren't going; to do it unless it is legislated, because it
is a larger issue then just a lot of people being nice people doing this kind of
turnabout after they have over 20 years been programmed into throw away
concept. The answer was that if the consumer wants the product in a pa-per
bag that is how he will get it. Alderman IIZeyer than sai(l that, from that
answer as she sees it, we, the consumer have to prove to comi)Pnies that people
are willing; to go through the pain of programming back into returnables.
L,rs. Daley's response to Alderman Meyer's question was as follows: When
talking about a life style it has been proven, how many gears has everyone
been involved in keeping_; American Beautiful program, the litter program,
people have proven over and over again that the;r are not interested in this
litter problem and that is why the commission met trvin g to find. a wedge to force
people to do the things that they should do on their ov,m. They have obvi.ousl�T
chosen this life style and if they want to live like pigs, what are you ,7oin7
to do about it except go to legislation. Alderman Iv;eyer said the issue is
I
eyond litter.
-8- july. 16, 1974
:r. McClain said that in Oregon the return rate in 1972 on soft drink containers
was 80% return rate, in 1973 it was 92 return rate, in the meanwhile
what happened was the law was passed, and people all of a sudden were behavin_7
differently because everybody was expected to return the containers.
x. Jerry Fielding stated at the meeting in 1967 Canada Dry was all returnable
and they loved them, they trade good money on them, they had flood prices, and
had a good market. The retailers would ask for nonreturnable containers. The
interest keeps rising and as the competition increased Canada Dry deeded
non- returnables to compete.
Mr. Giordano stated that in 1965, 66 and 67 when ev�r•yone was asking, and goin?
to non- returnables it was for sanitation reasons. The bottles that were
returned may not have been cleaned properly, even though, there were sanitary
restrictions. Ivr. Giordano also said that he had at least 100 employees and
after work most of his employees will pick up a beer to drink after work an(l
they aren't going to take the bottle home to their wives to return.
r4r. Garrett said they do have strict sanitation regulations at Coca -cola and
they are inspected regularly by the state, and he wanted to assure the public
that the bottles are clean.
"Irs. Daley asked A4r. Golden if the can eater, is som ething t'riat there is
a possibility for in the near future. TIr. Golden sai�,4 that it is being-
developed and that is all he knows, and there was another machine that wa.s
invented in Norway, that sorts the bottles and cans and issues receipts to
customers.
One statement was made, that if refillable cans or bottles are used, the
mixture that goes into the bottles does not have to be changed, and
companies do not necessarily need new equipment. The law does not state
what type of container that the drink has to be in, as lop'-, as it is
returnable.
A question was brought out retarding the use of plastic bottles 'or Coca -Cola.
It is being experimented with in New England, but that is all that is known at
this time. Pepsi Cola also is trying the plastic bottle in Las Vegas, and in
Philadelphia and one of the southern cities and it is a long way off. The
plastic bottle doesn't have a good appeal to customers.
It was decided that the commission would have to discuss this matter at
another meetinn, with the information that they had learned front the
speakers.
On a motion the meeting was adjourned.
Nancy R. "'eye'r, Actin, Se _et '7
PROCEEDINGS OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION
Regular Meeting 7:30 P.M. September 17, 1974
PRESENT: Joy Daley, Chairman
Alderman Nancy Meyer
Lawrence Bach
Michael Hall
Ex- Officio Member - Alderman Anne Jones
ABSENT: Vincent Giordano
Timothy Ray
MINUTES: By Lawrence Bach; seconded by Michael Hall
RESOLVED, that the minutes of the May 21, 1974 and July 16, 1974 meetings
stand approved as recorded by the City Clerk.
Carried
REPORT ON BIKEWAYS:
Michael Hall reported that the bikeways is in the hands of two professors
working with Mr. Van Cort as a class project. The project has not been
started. Alderman Meyer added that the work that is going to be done on
the bikeways will fit into the decision regarding the D.P.W. maintanence
garage. This will keep the waterfront exposed as a possible location for
the bikeway. Alderman Meyer added that the nearby D.O.T. facilities have
landscaped their front yard nicely, but they have used the water side of
their property as their main piling yard.
By Nancy Neyer: seconded by Lawrence Bach
RESOLVED, that the Environmental Commission write a letter after Nancy
Heyer and Michael Ball meet with D.O.T. requesting that they move their
fence back 10 feet and remove the piles or cover their piles with shrubbery.
Carried
Alderman Meyer further stated that there were two purposes here; 1. we
,set the landscaping for the visual and 2. would be making preparation
for access to the bike path.
REPORT ON PAPER RECYCLING:
Alderman Meyer reported that she attended a meeting of the Charter and
Ordinance Committee and has talked with Jack Dougherty and they are going
to work up something to bring back to Charter and Ordinance, which would
be mandatory separation. Alderman Meyer stated they would have to take
the whole refuse section of the code and revise it. They will likely have
mandatory se;.e.ra.t.i.on and private carters picking up paper maybe once a
month. This wouyzi allow for Kiwanis to have their four yearly pick -ups.
Newspaper will be all that is picked up. Alderman Meyer remarked that
if they get this off the ground then they will pursue metal. Joy Daley
felt that education was also a part of the Commissions role in gaining
109% participation. Discussion was raised regarding obtaining funds from
the Budget and Finance Committee for educational and materials purpose
which are specific to environmental matters. It was suggested that some-
one be hired or volunteer to work on this problem. Alderman Jones
suggested the Commission could ask for their own budget then get with
someone about hiring part -time help. Joy Daley stated that unless the
project is news worthy the media will drop it.
1975 BUDGET:
Alderman Meyer restated the D.P.W. maintanence garage and D.O.T. problem
as a viable stand for the 1975 budget. Michael Hall felt it would take
3,500.00 to run a decent program. Hall added that 2,500.00 would pay an
assistant working 15 hrs. a week from Cornell, and to run a publicity
campaign. He figured it would cost 1,000.00 above that to send them to all
the conferences they should go to, and provide office supplies and other
necessary things to run the operation. Joy Daley raised the question of
whether this is necessary, is this the way we want to go? Lawrence -Bach
felt that through Planning they could attack environmental problems. The
place to get environmental concern into the system is through Planning.
Alderman Jones restated that the Commission is not associated with anybody
and they need to be. Alderman Jones also recommended that they not ask
for money for a salary, but rather eventually have the associated person
ask for salary money, but that you have money for some kind of services
in the budget that can be drawn on and channeled through a city department,
rather than the descretion of the Commission.
By Nancy Meyer: seconded by Lawrence Bach
RESOLVED, that we request in the 1975 budget a total sum of 2,550.00 with
an allocation of: 50.00 Literature and Supplies
500.00 Travel and Conferences
2000.00 Contractual Services
under the auspicious of the Planning director and his staff.
Alderman Neyer wanted to make it clear that the Planning Department would
be the facilitator but not the spokesman.
Carried
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
BOTTLE LEGISLATION:
A discussion took place on the floor with the following resolution being
presented.
By Michael Ball: seconded by Lawrence Bach
RESOLVED, that the Environmental Commission go on record as supporting the
county effort in drafting a refurn.able bottle legislation.
Carried
COU14TY Mr 41',GEIIE NT COMMISSION:
The Environmental Commission will invite Mr. Earle to speak at their next
meeting, and set up a program for at least a few months.
'Michael Hall offered to check with Environmental Education at Cornell
about some possible services needed of their students for projects. He
said there was also a possibility that Cornell would sponsor a student and
take the load off of the city.
NEW BUSINESS:
There was no new business
CONIMNNI CATI ONS :
Syracuse Conference, September 20, 21, and 22, 1974 - no one was able to attend.
Syracuse Conference, October 19, and 20, 1974 - Joy Daley will attend
and Michael Hall May be able to attend the evening sessions.
Cornell Coal P= =e
Joy Daley reported that Cornell is having problems in not getting the right
kind of coal. They have the dam built and are looking into an underground
tank system. The runoff would not be a problem if they could get the quality
coal they need. Cornell looked into changing their plant into natural gas or
oil but the energy crisis called a halt to the idea.
By Michael Hall: seconded by Lawrence Bach
RESOLVED, that the Commission urge Common Council at it's next meeting to
pass a resolution supporting Cornell University's efforts to reopen the rail
line.
Carried
On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 9:46 P.M.
;fJosep'h A. Rundle, City Clerk
EIIVIROI *TENTAL COMMISSION MEETING
City of, ITHACA, IND? YORK.
Regular Meeting 7:30 p.m. October 15, 1974
PRESENT
Joy Daley, Chm.
Alderman Nancy Pieyer
Lawrence Bach
Michael Hall
Vincent Giordano
ABSENT
Timothy Ray
OTHERS PRESENT
Pat Riexinger - Cornell Conservation Club
Tony Incalcatera - Cornell Conservation Club
Dave Burnett and sons - Daniel and Arron
Dan Hoffman
City Clerk - Rundle
MINUTES
By Lawrence Bach: seconded by Michael Hall
RESOLVED, that the minutes of the September 17, 1974 meeting stand
approved as recorded by the City Clerk.
Carried
COrfiiITTEE REPORTS
Meeting with D.O.T.:
riichael Hall reported he had not met with D.O.T. yet, and for the benefit
of those who were absent at the last meeting, Mr. Hall summarized what
they are trying to accomplish with D.O.T.
Paper Recycling:
Alderman Meyer reported that it was taken to Common Council, and Jack
Dougherty was asked to report at the next Council meeting with some sort
of plan.
Alderman Meyer stated that in the Environmental Pianagement Bulletin there
was a section on resource recovery. Alderman Meyer noticed that the big
push was total Community programs that have to do with plants.
Joy Daley reported on a waste plant article she read.
Lehigh Valley Railroad Freight Station:
Alderman Meyer reported that the Historical Legislation Act of 1966
enables a review of building to be torn down for highways being built.
This review has slowed down the road building process. Some questions
that have to be answered are; what are the choices the City is going to
make in moving people? and what are those choices going to do to the
environment? Alderman Meyer felt that the Commission should take a stand
on the problem,..
Michael Hall stated that the Sierra Club is interested in transportation
in Ithaca and they are forming a group to look at the problem.
Discussion continued regarding the proposed cross town rt. 13 and problems
relating to that.
Bikeways:
Michael Hall reported that there will be no report on the Bikeways Committee
until January.
Discussion was raised pertaining to the amount of land the State is going to
buy for the bikeway.
Alderman 14eyer made it clear to the Commission that every person should keep
up with what is going on, otherwise the bureaucracy will environmentally be
distructive to the people.
-2-
County Hanagement Commission Report:
Joy Daley reported that she and Robert Earle talked about participating in
County Management program, and discussed several problems common to both groups.
Powers and Duties of the Commission. The powers and duties of the commis-
sion shall be to:
1. Advise the Common Council on matters affecting preservation, development,
and use of the natural and man -made features and conditions of the City
insofar as beauty, quality, ecologic integrity and other environmental
factors are concerned, and in the case of man's activities and developments,
with regard to any major threats posed to environmental quality, so as to
enhance the long range value of the environment to the people of the City.
2. Develop and, after receiving general approval by resolution of the
Common Council, conduct a program of public information in the community
which shall be designed to foster increased understanding of the nature
of environmental problems and issues and support for their solutions.
3. Conduct studies, surveys, and inventories of the natural and manmade
features within the City of Ithaca and such other studies and surveys as
may be necessary to carry out the general purposes of this Local Law.
4. Taintain an up -to -date inventory or index of all open spaces in public
or private ownership within the municipality, including but not limited to
natural landmarks, glacial and other geomorphic or physiographic features;
streams and their flood plains, swamps, marshlands and other wetlands;
unique biotic communities scenic and other open areas of natural or eco-
logical value and of the ownership, present use and proposed use of such
areas, so as to provide a base of information for recommendations by the
Commission for their preservation and /or use.
5. Seek to coordinate, assist, and unify the efforts of private croups,
institutions, and individuals within the City of Ithaca in accord with
the purposes of this Local Law.
6. Maintain liaison and communications with public and private agencies
and organizations of local, state and national scope whose programs and
activities have an impact on the quality of the environment or which can
be of assistance to the Commission. :Jotee Specific requests may be made
to local organizations to designate one of their members as liaison officer
to the Commission.
7. Working in cooperation with the planning board, recommend from time
to time to the Common Council features, plans, and programs relating to
environmental improvement for inclusion in the Master Plan of the City of
Ithaca and similarly, recommend to the Common Council appropriate and
desirable changes in existing local laws and ordinances relating to
environmental control or recommend new local laws and ordinances.
8. Prepare, print, and distribute books, maps, charts, pamphlets, in
accord with the purpose of this Local Law.
9. Obtain and maintain in orderly fashion maps, reports, books, and
other publications to support the necessary researches of the Commission.
10. lghen authorized by resolution of the Common Council of Ithaca, the
Commission may accept by gift, grant, devise, bequest, or otherwise,
property both real and personal in the name of the City of Ithaca as may
be necessary to conserve and otherwise properly utilize open spaces and
other land and water resources within the boundaries of the City of Ithaca.
Such real property may be accepted in fee for land and water rights, or
as any lesser interest, development right, easement, including conserva-
tion easement, covenant, or other contractual right including conveyance
with limitations or reversions.
11. Carry out such other duties as may be assigned from time to time by
the Common Council.
Alderman Geyer suggested some areas in Ithaca that the Commission could
take a stand on.
Chairman Daley mentioned that the Commission might benefit by connecting
themselves with the County Management Commission.
Alderman Meyer suggested that the Commission pica: a certain project for
each month for the next six months.
Lawrence Bach recommended a presentation of maps of open spaces around
the Ithaca area by Mr. Van Cort at the November 19, 1974 meeting.
-3-
Alderman Meyer suggested for the January 1975 meeting a presentation
by historic Ithaca, historic preservation and its implications.
Michael Hall suggested that the County Planner come and talk on the
Countys plans.
Alderman Meyer felt that the Commission should focus on the history
and uses of the gorges surrounding Ithaca.
Michael Hall was asked to plan the program for the February 1975 meeting.
Michael Hall suggested for the March 1975 meeting that the state D.O.T.
could come and talk on what they are doing on highways, etc. It would also
be good to get films and slides tc show to the public.
The guests were asked if they had any questions.
Mr. Burnett asked the Commission if they had anything to do with the
dredging of the inlet.
Alderman Meyer stated that the Commission was an advisory committee and
the dredging could go on against the Commissions say so.
Alderman Meyer asked the Commission if they wanted to have anything from
the Commission taken back to Council. Alderman Meyer asked that it be
put into writing and she would present it to Council.
There was discussion on the budget request for 1975 and that the Commission
should get a strong budget in the coming years so that the state could
refund such projects like radio spots or short t.v. spots.
Tony Incalcatera suggested that the Commission *.Hake use of the student
interest from the Colleges for help in projects.
Michael Hall suggested relative to the Education program, that he get
together with Pat Riexinger and Tony Incalgatera before the next meeting
and Professor Kelly and see what they can come up with. The students
could find something in the City and do a project then report to the
Commission later.
Absentee Member:
A discussion took place regarding a member that has missed several
meetings. Chairman Daley said she would contact the individual regarding
his status.
On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 9 :10 p.m.
V41 J
Joseph /A. Rundle, City Clerk
E14VIRONMENTAL COMMISSION MEETING
City of ITHACA, NEW YOP.K
Regular meeting
PRESENT
Joy Daley, Chm.
Lawrence Bach
Michael Hall
Alderman Nancy Meyer
ABSENT
Vincent Giordano
David Bechhofer
OTHERS PRESENT
7:30 p.m.
Mayor Conley
Tony Incalcatera - Cornell Conservation Club
Frank Liguori - County Planning Commissioner
Alderman Jones
City Clerk - Rundle
MINUTES
By Lawrence Bach: seconded by Michael Hall
RESOLVED, that the minutes of the October 15,
recorded by the City Clerk.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
November 19, 1974•
1974 meeting be approved as
Carried
Meeting with D.O.T.:
Michael Hall met with D.O.T. and stated that they didn't get around to
discussing the problem of their piles and refuse and fill along the inlet.
Michael Hall hoped to get to talk with them again.
Alderman Meyer reviewed what they were trying to do with D.O.T.
Paper Recycling:
Alderman Meyer said that the D.P.W. was asked to bring figures back which
they failed to do so they will have to be asked again. Alderman Meyer
stated that they will be doing this through the Planning and Development
Committee. Alderman Meyer reviewed ideas for recycling.
Mr. Liguori commented on the program of solid wastes in existence now.
Mr. Liguori stated that there is a tri- county solid waste recovering
study under a 100% funded grant from the Department of Environmental
Conservation. This will be to identify what opportunities might exist
in the three counties for recovery of the valuable resources in refuse.
One area of value is the possibility of the refuse being used as fuel at
Milliken Station, and other possibilities will be looked into around the
area. Mr. Liguori further commented that there is an opportunity for
skimming of removing certain fractions of the solid wastes before it gets
to the collection system. He stated that it would be six months before
they would have a definative report.
Alderman Meyer asked if this was a situation where it would be operating
at a County level and if there could be consistent pick -up.
Mr. Liguori stated that half of the County is covered by Municipal pick -ups
and the other portions of the County are covered by private collectors, and
75 to 80 percent of the homes are using these collectinns.
Further discussinn was held pertaining to disposal points, what items can
be taken out before they go to the transfer station, and further possibil-
ities of different collections.
Bikeways:
Michael Hall reported that there have been several meetings between Pro-
fessor Gentiley and Mr. VanCort,'of which he has not been able to attend.
Mr. Ball was able to attend a meeting on Transportation in general, and
-2- -
he felt that one objective of the bikeways study was to consider how any-
thing that Ithaca does might integrate with plans of surrounding communities.
Discussion was held pertaining to the group at Cornell doing research
for City Planning.
Conferences:
Joy Daley reported on the conference she attended in Syracuse. She offered
the material that she obtained to the Commission to loot: over. Mrs. Daley
stated that this Commission was to submit a report to them every year.
Joy Daley and Mike Hall explained to the Commission about Transfer Develop-
ment Rights, and what it entails.
Unfinished Business:
Alderman Meyer commented that the Commission should investigate what the
Area Beautification Council is interested in and how the Commission could
use their official charge to bring some of the concerns to Council.
Alderman Meyer gave some areas that the Beautification Council is inter-
ested in.
Mr. Liguori commented on the idea of preserving the shore line and restrain
Cayuga Lake as a recreation area and reduce the pressure of growth along
that area.
Discussion was further held pertaining to the law of control of land use
along water areas, and proper land use.
Alderman ;ieyer requested that Mr. Liguori send the Commission information
on the law of land use and that the Commission will study it and make it
one of their concerns.
December Meeting:
Joy Daley cLatcd Ovat they will have problemR with the date of the December
meeting, in order to have Mr. VanCort attend. Chairman Daley asked if the
date could be changed to the third Monday, December 16, 1974.
There were no objections from the Commission.
Commercial Use of School Property on South Hill:
Alderman Jones stated that she was concerned with a commercial use of
School property on South Hill by N.C.R., who is using part of the School
Districts property on Aurora Street fortemporary parking. Alderman Jones
stated that the City along with the School Board have tried to develop this
area.
Joy Daley commented that this area has bean an open playground area for a
long time.
Alderman Heyer suggested that this be one of the specific questions that
the Commission send to Mr. VanCort and ask him to report on this and all
open spaces in the City.
Alderman Jones stated that variance has been applied for from the Building
Commissioner for the use of parking on this land. Alderman Jones wants
to keep this open green space an open green space.
Michael Hall stated that the Commission couldn't do anything about the
situation at this time. Mr. Hall felt that it would be good to act on this
matter at the next meeting. He stated that everyone could take a look at
the situation some time during the next few weeks and report what they
think should be done.
Mr. Frank Liguori County Planning Commissioner, Presentation:
Mr. Liguori spoke on the County Environmental Management Council and its
responsibilities and future goals. Mr. Liguori presented several open
space land use maps of Tompkins County and discussed these maps in detail,
Mr. Liguori stated that with the kind of growth that they are expecting, if
the land is used judiciously open space in the next 20 to 25 years should
not be reduced by anymore than three or four square miles.
-3-
After the presentation a question and answer- period took place.
Environmental Council Education Program Report:
Tony Incalcatera reported that he had met with Pat Riexin -er twice and
has gotten a basic outline of what they would like to see instituted in the
University through an independent study project in the natural Resources
Department. Mr. Incalcatera stated that they had someone who would sponsor
some students to work on the project.
Itichael Hall reviewed what they were trying to do for those who were not
familiar with the program.
Mayor Conley asked if there has been any inventory on open spaces in the
City?
Joy Daley replied that this is one of the things that they are trying to
do with Mr. VanCort through the Planning Department.
On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 10:00 p.m.
i`l) •:'.�Z • 'Vl� ', L
/Joseph A. Rundle, City Clerk
PROCEEDINGS ("k THE ENVIRONMENTAL COI-IMISSION
REGULAR MEETING 7 :30 P.M. July 16, 1974
PRESENT: Joy Daley, Chairman
Alderman Nancy Beyer
.ichael Hall
Timothy Ray
Vincent Giordano
ABSENT: Lawrence Bach
OTHERS PRESENT: Alderman John _Gutenberger
Mrs. Legrace Benson
PAPER COLLECTION:
Alderman Meyer gave a report of paper collection. Alderman .Meyer reported that
the Planning and Development Committee has met with the Department of Public
Works and at this point they talked about who might be interested in the
collection of paper in the City. Alderman Meyer reported that Mr. Irving has
looked into it and there are people in the City who are interested. Alderman
1,4eyer stated that they haven't met again as a committee. Alderman Meyer
said that she thinks that because of the economic complications she is going to
recommend that a system be set up for mandatory separation and possibly licensing
private carters, sort of a scavenger license. Alderman Meyer reported that it
is just a suggestion, that the Planning and Development Committee has to hear
it and the Department has to hear it.
BIKEWAYS:
Mike Hall reported on the Bikeways in the City. Mike Hall stated that the
Bike Committee has met since the last meeting of Environmental Commission with
the Planning Department and all the volunteer help as well as the Ithaca
Planning Department was present at the meeting. Mike Hall reported that the
Bike Committee had decided, to continue to look at the, subject of bikeways this
summer and continue with publicity, but that this Fall they would enlist
the help of a planning class at Cornell to study the needs of cyclists in
Ithaca with the idea of coming up with a well thought out plan so that a pitfall
wouldn't be run in to. Mr. Hall stated that the Bike Committee wants to set
up bikeways of the class 3 level, which are bikeways that are marked alone the
roadways to warn motorists and to act as guides so that cyclists will have routes
to follow. Also a class 1 which will run to Cass Park. Mike Hall reported that
the Bike Committee will meet again in August but that the next important
thing that will happen will be the class picking it up and finding out what the
needs ,are. Mike Hall stated that a proposal will be drawn up and can be
referred to Common Council to ask for funds and then possibly start next
Spring. Mr. Hall also stated that in the next few years he hopes to see
Bikeways between all the state parks, and now the State is getting interested
in it, because there is so much local support.
COUNTY BOARD:
Timothy Ray reported that he has been working with 1,4r. Cary who is on the
County Board regarding bikeways. Iir. Ray stated that they have researched into
who owns the Lehigh Valley Railway as far as up to Geneva which is the Cass
Park bedway. Mr. Ray said that it is owned by N. Y. S. E. & G. all the way
up to Geneva who bought it in 1960. Mr. Ray said that about after 2 miles out
of town there is nothing on the bedway all the way up to Geneva, it is used
for nothing. Mr. Ray said there is also the old Lackawana that goes south out
of Ithaca and goes down toward Owego, it goes all the way to Caroline with
nothing on it. Mr. Ray said that in speaking to �!'r. Cary some of the problems
that have arose have-been quite extensive with tl°,e people cormlaining about
motorcycles and snowmobiles. Mr. Ray said that using the railway for
recreational purposes, such as biking, hiking, etc. Mr. Cary is very interested
to go to the State with this. Mr. Ray reported that he will now get together
with Mr. Hall and his committee.
ENVIRON14ENTAL CAMP: No report
ANNUAL BUDGET:
Alderman Meyer reported that Common Council did allocate another $50.00 for the
Environmental Commission. Alderman Meyer reported that they do have the dues
paid now to the New York State Association of Conservation Commissions and
still have $50.00 if the Committee wants to do any mailing or such, they now
have some financial backing.
-2- July 16, 1974
NEW YORK STATE ELECTRIC AND GAS COAL PLANT
Mr. Bach was not present to give a report, however Mr. Ray stated that
speaking with ^lr. Cary, that they were looking over the impact statement
that was put together regarding the plant and it seems that when the State
and Federal regulations were put through, it seems that everybody and their
friend gets a copy of the impact statement, but it is surprisinrr that the
City of Ithaca gets none. Mr. Ray said that ?Mr. Cary had told him that 5
tons of impact statements were printed up and distributed in the State to
certain people. There was a discussion regarding the bonding of money from
New York State Electric and Gas.
By Alderman Meyer: seconded by Mike Hall
RESOLVED, That Common Council investigate the funds available for studying
the impact of the New York State Electric and Gas Plant.
Motion Defeated
NEW BUSINESS
BOTTLE LEGISLATION
,,rs. Daley introduced Mr. John McClain who gave a discussion on Bottle
Legislation. Mr. ?McClain introduced himself to the Commission, as a Professor
at Cornell in the Business School, and he is also in the group which calls itself
the Tompkins County Citizens Committee for Returnable Beverage Containers.
Mr. McClain stated that two participants would speak at the meeting, they were:
Carol Killian and Forest Golden. Carol 'Gillian gave a slide presentation on bottle
legislation. Carol Killian stated that an average family consumes 1,646 bottles
or cans of beer and carbonated soft drinks each year. The Tompkins County consumers
are buying most of their beverages in non - returnable bottles and cans. Carol
Killian reported that if non - returnables were outlawed the average family
would save $44.00 per year in beverage purchases. This means that the
consumers in Tompkins County could save at least $800,000 per year. Carol
Killian said that other costs are also involved, those being: litter
clean -up, solid waste disposal, energy use, and use of raw materials. Save
energy by putting the beer back in refillable deposit containers. Rach time
an aluminum can is produced 2 kilowat of energy more than that required to
produce a returnable bottle, which is the same as burning a 100 watt lightbulb
for five hours. Massive industry efforts to encourage recycling centers for glass
and cans are generally failing. Recycling beverage containers is neither
practical norprofitable for the consumer or for industry, only 3.7% of about
60 billion throw away beverage containers produced in 1971 were recycled.
A 1972 study by Prof. Bruce Hannan of the University of Illinois showed
that for the entire glass beverage container system, that includes
production, transportation and disposal the returnable system uses much less
energy than both the throw away and the recycling systems. This study was based
on eight return trips per bottle. Recycling beverage containers is not
the answer, especially the aluminum cans. Everytime we throw a,wai* 48,000 cans
we rob the American economy of $200 of valuable metal, most of it contributing
to U. S. trade deficit. According to 1970 data for the U. S. Aluminum industry
the production of cans is the number one use in a list of 72 catagories. Carol
Killian reported that there are three good reasons for ending the non - returnable
beverage container:
1) Deposit containers could save the average family $44.00 a year in direct
purchase cost.
2) We can no longer waste the tremendous amount of energy we are spending today
to produce no deposit no return containers.
3) Cost and waste of aluminum a relatively scarce almost totally imported
non renewable natural resource.
The main reason to get rid of non returnable bottles in Canada, Oregon,
Vermont, and neighboring Cayuga County, which is litter.
Carol :wtllian said that aluminum doesn't rust and lasts forever. Several cities
and county's have enacted similar legislations. Cayuga County where New York's
-3- July 16, 1974
first enacted deposit law, passed a legislation largely on the litter
issue. The Boy Scouts and other volunteers in Tompkins County have conducted
an impressive litter pick up. In April 1974, 272 miles of roadside were cleaned
up in the County, 100,000 cans and bottles were picked up, layed end to end they
would run from Stewart Park to Milikan Station: 11.4 miles. The beverage
own public relations campaign "Keep America Beautiful" reports eye - popping cost.
The Sierra Club sponsored a random telephone survey in June 1974, the
211 people contacted were asked if they would favor a mandatory 5¢ deposit
on all soft drink and beer containers sold in the County. Almost 68%
were in favor of the proposed legislation, while only 9% were opposed.
The Sierra Club survey reflects the feelings of other central Nev Yorkers surveyed
during the past year. The strong majority of those surveyed favored deposit
legislation. Bob Simpkins, Superintendent of Robert H. Treman State Park, is
100% in favor of a mandatory deposit law. since the throwaway can, the amount
of litter in the park has grown dramatically along with this has come
increased costs for clean -up and disposal. Erie Miller, Chairman of the Public
Safety and Correction Committee of the County Board. of Representatives has said
"when I was a boy we used to be able to return pop bottles for 2¢ and milk bottles
for 5¢, we never found it to be an inconvenience. Today the bottles
and cans litter our roads and land, especially in the country side now,
kids can't make money picking up these bottles and cans, even if girls and
boys (like the Scouts) clean up the roads and then bring them to recycling;
centers more energy would be used to crush, melt and make new containers
than if they were just washed, returned and reused. When I was a kids there are
some things we did better than we do today, the returnable bottle was one of
them." Legrace Benson, a member of the County Board of representatives Public
Safety and Correction Committee says "we cannot afford to use scarce materials
such as bauxite and expensive resources such as electrical energy to
produce cans and bottles which all to quickly become part of the additional
problems of litter and solid waste disposal. Throw sways are a minor
and temporary convenience that we are buying at the price of our future."
In Oregon, the first state to have mandatory deposit legislation, Governor
Tom McClaw has said that the container deposit bill is a "rip roaring success ".
Since the enactment of the legislation in Oregon beverage container litter has
been reduced by 90 %.
Carol Killian said that when it comes to the debate over throw away containers
versus refillable containers there is one point that even the beverage industry
cannot challenge: the easiest problem to solve is one you never created in
the first place, help decrease solid waste cost, save our natural resources, con-
serve energy, reduce litter, and save yourself money: .support the return
of the returnables.
Mr. McClain then stated that Forest Golden would make some additional
comments on bottle legislation. Then the opposition would speak.
Mr. Golden then introduced himself. I•Sr. Golden is from the City of Auburn
and is a registered professional engineer in the State of New York. Mr. Golden
reported that he has been studying bottle legislation for three years now.
Mr. Golden reported that it was three years ago that the Cayuga County
Environmental management council heard about the Oregon landmark decision. It
was in July 1971, and since then an intensive study has been held, and
came up with a 60+ page report and it was issued to the County Environmental
Management Committee of the Legislature. Mr. Golder said that as a result
of this report the council recommended to the legislature that the legislature
hold a public hearing, largest public hearing in Cayuga County, was held on
this subject. Prior to the public hearing several surveys were made, which
gave similar results as what Carol Iri.11ian reported, basically 2 /3rds of the
public were in favor of the legislation and most of that was by the litter
issue. Mr. Golden said that after the public hearing it became rather
clear that somebody was weighing "the facts of the Oregon experience ", that
perhaps things couldn't be black or white in Oregon it had to be one way or the
other. 7r. Golden said that he and the other peo?ole who supported the
citizen effort, passed the legislation saying that it was working in Oregon.
The opponents of the legislation said there was a disaster in Oregon, prices
were sky high, litter was up and a number of other things. Consequently,
the Chairman of legislation sent three legislators to Oregon to study the
situation. One of the legislators was an opponent of the legislation,
prior to going because he was in the liquor business, a second one was
neutral and the third was an involved proponent of the proposed legislation.
�Ir. Golden said that they spent several days in Oregon and upon return
_4_ 'Tuly 16, 1974
unanimously reported that the legislation in Oregon was working. This
legislation does not ban cans, it merely requires all containers to be
refundable for a nickel. Mr'. Golden said that.the vote took place on November
26 in a packed legislative chamber and the vote was affirmative, that on Nov.
26 the law would go into effect. Mr. Golden said that alot of counties
are now getting involved in bottle legislation, defeated in one county, active
in Onondaga County, Suffolk County, Oneida County, in Herkimer County, etc.
Bottle legislation has to be started somewhere in New York State and Cayuga County
has passed it. In Albany it has never even gotten out of committee, in four
consecutive years, and it won't ever get out of committee in Albany unless the
heat is put on Albany through public action. Mr. Golden said that he was in
Vermont last week and Utica Club is selling in Vermont for $1.19, in the City
of Utica, home of the westend brewing company it is selling for $1.29, which
shows that the refillables are less and the people are not driving out of
Vermont to buy throw aways. A small town by the name of Oagland, Ohio;
population, 9,000 has had a deposit law in effect for two Nears or more and it
is working on a city level. is. Golden said for information and a copy
of the law write to Mr. Dave Sonner, City Councilman, Oagland, Ohio.
Mr. Golden then read parts of letters from brewing company's, who favor
mandatory container deposit law.
OPPOSITION TO THE BOTTLE LEGISIATIO14
Carl Yengo, a local businessman in the wholesale beer industry. Mr. Yengo
said that he is for protecting the environment and for improving the
environment. 14r. Yengo said that he feels that the approach to solid
waste, litter and the energy problem cannot be solved on the local
level with the proposed beverage container law. 11r. Yengo stated that
there are many ramifications that are beyond the powers of local government,
but he suggested the* three "E's ": Education, Enforcement and Equipment to sub-
stantiate his statement Mr. Yengo introduced '4r. Steve Chiles of Coca --Cola
Company. Mr. Chiles said that there are two central issues to the
container deposit legislation, letter and economic issues. The most
authoritative source that he knows of is the study done in 29 states of this
country by " Keep America Beautiful" and they found that litter. was comprised_
of beverage containers by roughly 20 %, which varies greatly with other
figures. Mr. Chiles said that he would like to propose a litter program
that deals with the entire litter problem, and he is working with material taken
from Christopher Giles, who is a recognized national litter control man.
Mr. Chiles said that we think of litter as being connected to .lust two
sources that being pedestrian and motorist, and t-1r. Giles has advanced five others:
1)Improper refuse outputs at commercial establishments 2)imnroper
household refuse put out 3)lack of containment at loading platforms and
unloading platforms W uncovered trucks carrying refuse 5)lack of containment
at construction projects. Mr. Chiles said that :fir. Giles has worked with
New York City in actual litter control experience4 In their actual litter
experience in N. Y. C. they have reduced litter 620 on a sustaining basis
within their given areas that they have advanced. Mr. Chiles said that
i4r. Giles set up community programs to include: sanitation codes
to cover the sources of the spread of litter, makin.r it easier for people
to dispose of litter properly, educational programs, and better enforcement methods.
Mr. Chiles said too that Mr. Giles feels in accordance with the community, the
State government should, 1)require all *!rotor vehicles to carry litter containers
2)require operators of open trucks to cover them when carrying loose material
3)require roadside establishments between towns to provide and maintain adequate
litter receptacles. Mr. Chiles said that it has been the result of Mr. Giles
experiment that litter has been reduced by 600. This approach seems to be muci
more practical than an approach such as a container ban, or deposit
legislation which the Coca -Cola company believes would only reduce litter
by 11 %. ?v1r. Chiles also reported on the economic issues involved. In a container
deposit law 11r. Chiles believes the consumer will pay much more for soft
drinks. If you combine the economic disruption to the packaging industry, to
the beverage manufacturing industry, and to the retailers who finally pass this
on to the consumers and total those', costs up, it has been found that the consumers
ultimately will pay more for their soft drinks and their beer that it would
surpass by many times over the total cost today of all litter programs.
Mr. Chiles also reported on a study done by Dr. Clark Strausser, Economics
Professor, formerly with the University of Buffalo and retained by Erie
County. It was found in Erie County not to enact the legislation that the price
of beer and soft drinks in returnable bottles would be higher than the non -
returnables contrary to what he had earlier. reported. 7� 1r. Chiles said that
there are over 250 coca -cola can vending machines in this county, it would
automatically put these local merchants right out of the can vending business,
-5- Jui-y l6, 1974
they just have no way to collect and control those deposit containers. Mr.
Chiles said that capital expenditures in returnable bottles, cartons and cases,
the obsolescence of coca -cola assets would cost the company in access of
$5009000 to undertake this system. Mr. Chiles also said the final and most
important issue of economics is the decline and rate of return of empty
returnable bottles. Mr. Chiles said that in 1950 the coca -cola company
experience bottle trippage levels, that is the probability that a bottle
will continue to come back, cola bottles were getting 15 to 20 trips. In 1960
it fell to 10 trips, and currently they are getting five trips. A high
trippage level is the only way that a returnahle system will work, if they
don't receive the bottle trippage rate there is just no way they can see these
products on the market. Consumers in Tompkins County currently have a choice
between the returnables and nonreturnables, they are overwelmi.n gly choosing the
nonreturnables. Mr. Chiles said that if 68;j' of the consumers prefer the
.legislation then why is that 68% of coca -cola drinkers aren't buying a
returnable package. The container deposit legislation in Coca - cola's opinion
does very little to-solve the litter problem, the cost to the consumer will be
enormous, the cost of the beverage and container industry 'rill be enormous.
iir. Chiles asked everyone to consider the type of constructive program bronosed
by HTr. Giles that was outlined.
The next speaker was ''7r. Jerry Howardam from Pepsi Cola Company. r?r, FIoi�mrdam
said that it is very interesting to note that all the surveys on litter they have
always pointed out carbonated beverages, they forget all about brine bottles,
whiskey bottles, mayonnaise and ketsup. !''Tr. Howardam said that there are
hundreds of bottles on the shelf that you use and throw away but they single
out the carbonated beverage bottles for all of the litter. In Cayuga Countv
it was passed by a slim vote - 11 to 10 and the Erie County rejected it by 21
to 7. J"r. Howardam said that the cities with the major population are
opposed to bottle legislation and the New York Times had an article on the
proposed legislation. The press has openly stated that it will be defeated in
the City with the highest population in the United States. Mr. Howardam
said that it was rejected in Suffolk County four years ago overwelmin gly.
1r. Howardam asked what chance it has for statewide basis when the counties
and municipality's turn it down cold.
Bob Garrett from Coca -cola was the next speaker in opposition of the bottle
legislation. Tor. Garrett said that he is general manager of the associated
coca -cola bottling company. !r. Garrett said they have producing centers
in Syracuse, Albany and 8 sales centers are served from the plants,
Cortland which covers Ithaca. Nr. Garrett said that he agreed with what tr. Chiles
said, and stated that they do have returnable bottles in every territory M
which they do business, and most food stores have cooperated, however 90, in
of the sales are in nonreturnable bottles. Mr. Garrett said if this law
was passed the soft drink industry in N. Y. S. it would take approximately
250 million dollars to convert to an all returnable system, at todays prices of
money, alot would drop by the wayside. 11Tr. Garrett said they would then need
new machinery, because most industries are not equipped to do all sizes of return -
ables. Mr. Garrrett said that it would also be a complete change over for the
glass company, and would probably be devasting to them if it were possible
to do so. The I1Iidwest Research Institute said "A national ban on one -way bottles
and cans would have a negative 10 billion dollar impact on this country.
A loss of $800 million dollars in taxes, and would cause a loss of more than 1609000
jobs. Pair. Garrett said that California, a neighbor of Oregon, has defeated
this legislation several times as has over 3,000 other proposals of similar
types of legislation. �r. Garrett said that lr. Strausser who is economics
Professor of the University of Buffalo, who was on the Committee, and had
five hearings throughout N. Y. S. concluded that if passed in Erie County, he
did not believe that it would solve the litter problem and would seriously
disrupt all of the beverage industry in that county. In Syracuse the papers
there have said that it is not in their opinion for a county level, and they
recommend recycling. Mr. Garrett said that he would leave with the chairman
of the committee a copy of the Americacolog
of solid waste. y, which states a system for separation
PIr. Stanley Tsapis also spoke and said that he has as interest in �3ottle
Legislation. _Xr. Tsapis said that most business people are very conservative
people because they invest their money. 'x. Tsapis said that he is a Lawyer and
also a partner of Art Milligan's store, and they can sell beer for "1.10
in non - returnable bottles. fir. Tsapis said that he would like very much to
see some kind of legislation passed, but not county wide, he would like to see
an Oregon experiment possibly or Vermont. ?r. Tsapis said that he and his
partner are concerned that they are trying to compete with the counties around.
July 16, 197+
Tompkins County and. they would have to nay more if all returnable bottles
were used. 1r. Tsapis said that nationwide, or statewide legis�loanio�o�.00ld be
more to his liking because if it were only county
fory30 people 1 less. If , nT ewgYork�
to the neighboring county if they can get State were going to pass the legislation that would be fine, but 'he doesn't
want to see Tompkins County experimenting frith his money. ^fir. Milligan said.
that they do have returnables in the store, the ratio in soda is 25`", beer is
less than 2% in returnables.
Mr. McClain read a portion from the New York Times, July 8, 197+:
"In the New York City Council a proposed law to require returnable beverage
containers has been sponsored by 28 councilmen, well over a majority of the
44 member volume. The bill known as: Intro No. 345, has the enthusiastic backing
of many councilmen who say they would like to stop the growing litter and
garbage problems, caused by cans and bottles tossed away after one use.
Intro 345 is given no chance of becoming a law "It's going no place" said,
a source close to the council. It is politically dangerous. Bills almost
identical to Intro No. 345 have been introduced across the country in the
last few years, as the tide of non- returnables increased sharply, but most
ecause of one of the most intensive lobbying campaigns
of these bills have died b
council cosponsored the le
in recent history. A majority of the legislation
that is the massive industry lobbying campaign that makes it politically dangerous
and gives it very little chance of being passed, gr. McClain said that
during; the past several weeks he has attended meetings and met privately frith
people in favor and opposed to the proposed beverage container deposit la-vr.
Mr. McClain said that he was at the meeting to talk about facts versus
innuendo. The facts have been carefully documented by two professors
of Oregon University published in March 1974. The Oregon State tniv(-rsity
study based their conclusions on three primary sources: 1)the Oregon liquor
control commission 2)the Oregon State highway division 3)their own
survey of 100% of the licensed malt beverage distributors, 100% of the r_`r.
licensed soft drink bottlers and 100 retailers in the state of Oregon.
rClain then compared some innuendo with .facts. He strongly supports the
2��
beverage container deposit legislation but wanted to advise the commission
that things can be said without knowledge or fact. Mr. McClain said that there
is not one shread of evidence that indicates the people of Oregon have any
reason to be sorry that their container legislation was passed.
Mr. Garrett read a portion of the editorial of the Post Standard, 'lay 7, 1974,
which was a reversal by Dr. Strausser on containers: "An interesting reversal
of position by consultant, an introduction of new data are expected to have
an impact of the Erie County legislation when they vote today on a bill
that prohibits throw away beverage containers. An earlier meeting on the
measure ended in a deadlock. Last summer Erie County executive Edi-rard Raegen
commissioned Dr. Strausser., an economic professor at the University of
Pittsford, to make a study of the feasibility of a ban on one -wav containers.
Subsequently, Dr. Strausser, a former University of Buffalo professor recommended
that Erie County enact legislation to prevent the sale of beverages in such
containers. But last Friday, Dr. Strausser announced that he had new
information as a result of additional research and he was changing his
mind. Among other things he said that he had found out from manufacturers that
the price of beer and soft drinks in returnable bottles would be h.ipher than in
non- returnables, contrary to what he had earlier reported. Also lie declared
that the anti- litter goals of the proposed legislation probably would not be
achieved, for example: he declared that litterers -T-rho now are throvincr,
beer cans along road ways and other places, might be'throwing Qlass bottles
instead. Dr. Strausser said also that throw away containers purchased in other
counties still could be used in Erie County and also would be potential. litter.
This is similar to one of the problems in Vermont, where there is a statewide
ban on non - returnable containers. Vermonters can buy beverages in the
prohibited bottles and cans in adjacent states and eventually disgard the
container in Vermont. Dr. Strausser stated that many people just don't
return their beer and soft drink containers even though they may be of the
returnable type. Since they are bulker and heavier he says waste disposal
would be increased. I wish I could have shown something; else, Dr. Strausser
declared, the possibility that this proposed ban won't wore is too high I
believe."
QUESTION AND ANSWER PERIOD
After all parties had stated their opinion on the Bottle Legislation, a question
and answer period was then held. Several points were made as follolls:
-7 July 16, 1974
Mr. Vincent Giordano said that we are doing it here in the City of Ithaca, and
Tompkins County. Mr. Giordano said he foirg,ht for the commission for 4 ,years as
past president, and also as director of Challenge industry for 4 or 5 years to
give the handicap people some work in the City of Ithaca. TATe've got a fine
system and the people are carrying the bottles back. The handicap people
enjoy doing the work. 14r. Giordano said they are not having the bottles
dumped in landfill areas, and they get at least 65� of the bottles. Lir.
Giordano said that they collect bottles from the City, Lansing, Trumansburg
and Interlaken. Air. Giordano said that when he was director of Challenge
Industries the money from the bottles kept the industry going.
Mrs. Daley explained to everyone attending the Committee meeting that what
is being discussed is the proposal for Tompkins County, that the
Commission is just trying to form an opinion, from the information they
are getting so that they can give a recommendation. AZrs. Daley said that
the Commission was not forming a legislation, but that they do have representatives
on the County Environmental Management Commission who will act for the Commission.
1,1rs. Legrace Benson of the Board of Representatives said that the County at
this time is studying the problem. The county does not have any proposed
legislation and probably will not have any proposed legislation for
some time. Mrs. Benson said the county is studying the problem of safety
standpoints, of resources,economic standpoint, and from awareness of the _problems
that would arise in storage, etc. 14m. Benson said the county does not
have any legislation for ban, for deposit, or mandatory refillables, etc.
because at present they are studying the problems associated with litter
landfill, etc. ,
Several comments were made on how the retailers would store the returnable bottles
and where they would store them. Several people seem to think that this
would definitely create a problem.
'_ -like Hall said that he had a couple points to make. Mr. Hall asked two
questions: 1)The first question was to _lr. Garrett asking him if he had to wait
in line for gas last winter; the answer was yes 2)The second
was to ;Ir. Yengo asking him if he had ever complained about the cost eoflfuel
heat his business; the answer was obviously. Mr. Hall said that he thinks the
�.
central issue is enery, we can live with bottles up to our ears but we can't
live without oil, and people should be concerned about saving energy.
Tim Ray asked Mr. Chiles, what were some of the reasons for lov tri.n(return)
rate. Mz. Chiles then answered that the Coca -cola company which manufactures.
Syrups, sets standards for a bottle, for all the coca -cola bottles through
the country. The Cola company has no control over the bottle itself, TvIr. Chiles
said,that the problem as he sees it, is the changing consumer attitude,
deposit has been increased to 10¢ and as yet there has been no increase in
return rate.
Alderman ieyer asked the following qeestion of any beverage representative:
Would you not agree that besides the energy
we are also talking about a life style problem and the litter problem,
Y problem, and the life style problem is
very relative to the relationship of the economic situation countryl de and the
programming of these economics by business. Would
as the Count was you not agree that just
Y programmed into throw 1111,1173, they can be prrgrammed out of the
throw aways but they aren't going to do it unless it is legislated, because it
is a larger issue then just a lot of people being nice people doin,n this kind of
turnabout after they have over 20 years been programmed into throw away
concept. The answer was that if the consumer wants the product in a paper
bag that is how he will get it. Alderman Meyer than said. that from that
answer as she sees it, we, the consumer have to
are willing to go through the bin of prove to combanies that people
P programming back into returnables.
rs. Daley's response to Alderman Meyer's question was as follows: When
talking about a life style it has been proven, 'low many gears has everyone
been involved in keeping American Beautiful program,
people have proven over and over a ,�' the litter program,
gain that ,, are not interested in this
litter problem and that is why the commission met trying to find a r, *edge to force
people to do the things that they should do on their otm. `Thee have obviously
chosen this life style and if they want to live like
to do about it except Pigs, what are You noing
P go to legislation. Alderman Meyer said the issue is
beyond litter.
_8- July 16, 1974
4r. McClain said that in Oregon the return rate in 1972 on soft drink containers
was 80% return rate, in 1973 it was 92 return rate, in the meanwhile
what happened was the law was passed, and people all.of a sudden were behaving;
differently because everybody was expected to return the containers.
Mr. Jerry Fielding stated at the meeting in 1967 Canada Dry was all returnable
and they loved them, they made good money on them, they had good prices, and
had a good market. The retailers would ask for nonreturnable containers. The
interest keeps rising and as the competition increased Canada Dry deeded
non - returnables to compete.
Tyr. Giordano stated that in 1965, 66 and 67 when everyone was asking and goin p-
to non- returnables it was for sanitation reasons. The bot.tles that were
returned may not have been cleaned properly, even though, there were sanitary
restrictions. Mr. Giordano also said that he had at least 100 employees and.
after work most of his employees will pick up a beer to drink after work and
they aren't going to take the bottle home to their wives.to return.
Mr. Garrett said they do have strict sanitation regulations at Coca -cola and
they are inspected regularly by the state, and he wanted to assure the public
that the bottles are clean.
"sirs. Daley asked Mr. Golden if the can eater, is something that there is
a possibility for in the near future. Mr. Golden sairl that., it is being
developed and that is all he knows, and there was another machine that was
invented in Norway, that sorts the bottles and cans and issues receipts to
customers.
One statement was made, that if refillable cans or bottles are used, the
mixture that goes into the bottles does not have to be changed, and
companies do not necessarily need new equipment. The law does not state
what type of container that the drink has to be in, as ion-, as it is
returnable.
A question was brought out regarding the use of plastic bottles for Coca -Cola.
It is being experimented with in New England, but that is all that is known at
this time. Pepsi Cola also is trying the plastic bottle in Las Vegas, and in
Philadelphia and one of the southern cities and it is a long way off. The
plastic bottle doesn't have a good appeal to customers.
It was decided that the commission would have to discuss this matter at
another meeting, with the information that they had learned from the
speakers.
On a motion the meeting was adjourned.
Nancy R. Heye , Acting Seo�,etary
PROCEEDINGS OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMISSION
Regular Meeting 7:30 P.M. September 17, 1974
PRESENT_: Joy Daley, Chairman
Alderman Nancy Meyer
Lawrence Bach
Michael Hall
Ex- Officio Member - Alderman Anne Jones
ABSENT: Vincent Giordano
Timothy Ray
MINUTES: By Lawrence Bach; seconded by Michael Hall
RESOLVED, that the minutes of the May 21, 1974 and July 16, 1974 meetings
stand approved as recorded by the City Clerk.
Carried
REPORT ON BIKEWAYS:
Michael Hall reported that the bikeways is in the hands of two professors
working with Mr. Van Cort as a class project. The project has not been
started. Alderman Meyer added that the work that is going to be done on
the bikeways will fit into the decision regarding the D.P.W. maintanence
garage. This will keep the waterfront exposed as a possible location for
the bikeway. Alderman Meyer added that the nearby D.O.T. facilities have
landscaped their front yard nicely, but they have used the water side of
their property as their main piling yard.
By Nancy Meyer: seconded by Lawrence Bach
RESOLVED, that the Environmental Commission write a letter after Nancy
Meyer and Michael Hall meet with D.O.T. requesting that they move their
fence back 10 feet and remove the piles or cover their piles with shrubbery.
Carried
Alderman Meyer further stated that there were two purposes here; 1. we
get the landscaping for the visual and 2. would be making preparation
for access to the bike path.
REPORT ON PAPER RECYCLING:
Alderman Meyer reported that she attended a meeting of the Charter and
Ordinance Committee and has talked with Jack Dougherty and they are going
to work up 'something to bring back to Charter and Ordinance, which would
be mandatory separation. Alderman Meyer stated they would have to take
the whole refuse section of the code and revise it. They will likely have
mandatory se : -radon and private carters picking up paper maybe once a
month. This wou d allow for Kiwanis to have their four yearly pick -ups.
Newspaper will be all that is picked up. Alderman Meyer remarked that
if they get this off the ground then they will pursue metal. Joy Daley
felt that education was also a part of the.Commissions role in gaining
100% participation. Discussion was raised - regarding obtaining funds from
the Budget and Finance Committee for educational and materials purpose
which are specific to environmental matters. It was suggested that some-
one be hired or volunteer to work on this problem. Alderman Jones
suggested the Commission could ask for their own budget then get with
someone about hiring part -time help. Joy Daley stated that unless the
project is news worthy the media will drop it.
1975 BUDGET:
Alderman Meyer restated the D.P.W. maintanence garage and D.O.T. problem
as a viable stand for the 1975 budget. Michael Hall felt it would take
3,500.00 to run a decent program. Hall added that 2,500.00 would pay an
assistant working 15 hrs. a week from Cornell, and to run a publicity
campaign. He figured it would cost 1,000.00 above that to send them to all
the conferences they should go to, and provide office supplies and other
necessary things to run the operation. Joy Daley raised the question of
whether this is necessary, is this the way we want to go? Lawrence-Bach
felt that through Planning they could attack environmental problems. The
place to get environmental concern into the system is through Planning.
Alderman Jones restated that the Commission is not associated with anybody
and they need to be. Alderman Jones also recommended that they not ask
for money for a salary, but rather eventually have the associated person
ask for salary money, but that you have money for some kind of services
in the budget that can be drawn on and channeled through a city department
rather than the descretion of the Commission.
By Nancy Meyer: seconded by Lawrence Bach
RESOLVED, that we request in the 1975 budget a total sum of 2,550.00 with
an allocation of: 50.00 Literature and Supplies
500.00 Travel and Conferences
2000.00 Contractual Services
under the auspicious of the Planning director and his staff.
Alderman IZeyer wanted to make it clear that the Planning Department would
be the facilitator but not the spokesman. Carried
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
BOTTLE LEGISLATION:
A discussion took place on the floor with the following resolution being
presented.
By Michael Hall: seconded by Lawrence Bach
RESOLVED, that the Environmental Commission go on record as supporting the
county effort in drafting a refurriable bottle legislation. Carried
COUNTY r(ANAGEI•ZENT COMMISSION:
The Environmental Commission will invite Mr. Earle to speak at their next
meeting, and set up a program for at least a few months.
,- Jichael Hall offered to check with Environmental Education at Cornell
about some possible services needed of their students for projects. He
said there was also a possibility that Cornell would sponsor a student and
take the load off of the city.
NEW BUSINESS:
There was no new business.
C0I01UNI CATI ONS :
Syracuse Conference, September 20, 21, and 22, 1974 - no one was able to attend.
Syracuse Conference, October 19, and 20, 1974 - Joy Daley will attend
and Michael Hall May be able to attend the evening sessions.
Cornell Coal P _ ;.e
Joy Daley reported that Cornell is having problems in not getting the right
kind of coal. They have the dam built and are looking into an underground
tank system. The runoff would not be a problem if they could get the quality
coal they need. Cornell looked into changing their plant into natural gas or
oil but the energy crisis called a halt to the idea.
By Michael Hall: seconded by Lawrence Bach
RESOLVED, that the Commission urge Common Council at it's next meeting to
pass a resolution supporting Cornell University's efforts to reopen the rail
line.
Carried
On a motion the meeting was adjourned at 9:46 P.M.
/Jose City Clerk