HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-12-02-PH1
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VERBATIM REPORTING &VIDEO
(800)368 -3302
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PUBLIC HEARING
TOWN OF ULYSSES
REGARDING PROPOSED ZONING REVISIONS
HELD ON:December 2nd,2013 at 7:00 PM
HELD AT:ULYSSES HISTORICAL SOCIETY
39 SOUTH STREET
TRUMANSBURG,NEW YORK 14886
APPEARANCES:
ELIZABETH THOMAS,Supervisor
MARSHA GEORGIA,Town Clerk
KEVIN ROMER,Board Member
DAVID KERNESS,Board Member
LUCIA TYLER,Board Member
NANCY ZAHLER,Board Member
DARBY KILEY,Planner
HEARING REPORTER:SHAUNA M.POTTER
Court Reporter
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MS.THOMAS:It's seven o'clock,and
we are going to start this meeting,but
we're starting it first by saying there's a
Toyota Tundra with its lights on with
license plate GD323,something,58 maybe.
If you have a Toyota Tundra you might have
your lights on.
PUBLIC:GDJ.
MS.THOMAS:GDJ.Okay.Sorry.
Some technical difficulties here.I would
like to start this meeting with a motion to
open the public hearing.Do I have a
motion?
MS.TYLER:So moved.
MS.THOMAS:Second?
MS.ZAHLER:Second.
MS.THOMAS:All in favor?
BOARD MEMBERS:Aye.
MS.THOMAS:Opposed,abstained?
Okay.Welcome.My name is Elizabeth
Thomas.I'm the supervisor for the Town of
Ulysses.I'm conducting tonight's public
hearing on behalf of the Town Board of the
Town of Ulysses.Before I begin,I'd like
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to introduce the other town board members.
Dave Kernas,Nancy Zahler,Lucia Tyler,
Kevin Romer,our Planner,Darby Kiley,and
our Town Clerk,Marsha George.
So just some housekeeping.There are
restrooms in the back,and if we do start
going,I may have to recess the hearing if
it starts going too long.So we'll just
take a recess for a little while for people
to have a break if we need one.
So the subject of this public hearing
is the proposed local law to amend the Town
of Ulysses zoning law.New districts have
been added along Cayuga Lake,parallel to
Route 89.These areas have been described
as the lakeshore and conservation districts
and have been discussed by the town board
and several committees over the past four
years.Other major changes besides the
lakeshore and conservation districts are a
marina district where the yacht club is now
which is now zoned residential.We have an
addition of the revised nonconformance
language that's also known as
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grandfathering.We have revised article
three which is the administrative part of
the zoning.We added some new definitions
and corrected some inconsistencies
throughout the document.
All of those pieces have been
reviewed individually and discussed as
individual parts.This proposed zoning law
takes all those parts we have reviewed over
the years and rolls them into one document,
the Town of Ulysses Zoning Law.What is
not being presented tonight are any
regulations governing docks,boat hoists,
moorings or riparian rights.All of the
water sections of the previous lakeshore
zoning drafts have been removed.If the
town board chooses to take up these in
water regulations,it may do so in a future
change,but these areas are not the topic
of tonight's public hearing.
For those of you in the back,there's
still quite a few seats up front,and
you're not disturbing anyone,and you'll be
a lot more comfortable if you come sit
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down.So feel free to come and go as you
need to.
Copies of the proposed zoning
regulations for the proposed new lakeshore,
conservation and marina districts and other
sections of the zoning law proposed
revisions are available by the door.Those
are excerpts though and the full text of
the entire proposed zoning law consists of
189 pages.It's available on the town
website for download or the town clerk can
provide a printed copy for a fee.
The date of this public hearing was
set by resolution of the town board on
November 18th,2013 and a notice of the
hearing was posted in the Ithaca Journal on
November 21st,2013 and posted on the Town
Clerk's notice board on November 18th,
2013.Notice of the public hearing was
mailed on November 19th,2013 by the
Ulysses Town Clerk to the clerks of the
Village of Trumansburg,the Town of Covert,
the Town of Hector,the Town of Ithaca,the
Town of Lansing,the Town of Enfield,the
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clerks of Tompkins,Schuyler and Seneca
Counties and the Regional New York State
Park Commission.
This has been a long process.With
the town board initiating work on
conservation zone in 2008 and lakeshore
zone in 2009.The planning board presented
a draft of the conservation zone in
September 2010 and a committee was formed
by the town board --let's see.A
committee was formed by the town board to
present their version of lakeshore zoning
in September 2011.
After the public information meeting
of October 24th,2012,the town board
formed an ad hoc committee to review the
comments that were submitted and create a
revised version of the lakeshore zone.
This happened from January to June this
year,2013 with the ad hoc committee
formally presenting its recommendations to
the town board on June 25th,2013.The
town board then reviewed both the
lakeshore,conservation,and marina
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districts beginning July 9th,2013 and
finishing on October 8th,2013.
So the public has had an opportunity
to comment on these documents throughout
the process,and has had opportunity to
comment specifically on the lakeshore and
conservation zones since the last draft was
available on October 9th,2013.The board
completed their review of the marina
district on September 24,2013,and on the
nonconformance language on September 10th,
2013.That's it for all the dates.Oh,
except for one more.The public
information meeting on this topic was held
on November 18th,2013 and provided a more
detailed description of the changes to the
zoning law revisions.
Tonight's meeting is a public hearing
which is a time for the town board to
listen to comments from the public on the
proposed local law.This is not a time to
answer questions or debate the matter,but
if you do have questions,please contact
Darby Kiley,myself,or other town board
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members after the public hearing.
Darby Kiley,the Planner for the Town
of Ulysses will now briefly summarize the
proposed zoning law amendment once I give
her her voice.
MS.KILEY:I'll try to do this so
you guys can hear me.I'm going to --the
course of the presentation is very similar
to the public information meeting that was
held a couple weeks ago.I am going to go
through the process and timeline,a little
overview of the zoning in general,overview
of the changes,some background on the 2009
comprehensive plan,information on the
unique natural areas,overlay area,and
then go through the contents of the
lakeshore,conservation,and marina
districts and the nonconformance.
Liz just mentioned kind of the
details of the zoning process and timeline,
and this graph also includes the
comprehensive plan which began in 2006.
And they worked on,the comprehensive plan
worked on by committees through 2009 was
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adopted in 2009,and then here are some
dates for the conservation district and the
lakeshore district.
Just some general information about
zoning,and our zoning law is similar to
many other municipalities across the state
or includes a number of general provisions,
anything from definitions and just general
standards that are applied throughout the
entire municipality and they also include
zoning districts and this is our --the
proposed zoning map that divides the town
into a number of districts.While I hear
someone else's cell phone,if people can
silence their cell phones to not distract
anyone else in the audience.So the zoning
districts,within each district there are a
list of uses and examples of those,a
single family home,restaurant,or church,
and then the district also includes lot
dimensions,which is lot area,lot coverage
and setbacks.
And the zoning applies to new
projects and new construction.It's not
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meant to apply to ordinary maintenance of
existing homes,and the way ours is
written,if you have a nonconforming lot or
a nonconforming structure,you don't need
to bring it into compliance with the zoning
in order to meet the zoning requirements.
So I'll just briefly go through the
administration definition section and then
go through the lakeshore district
separately.In the administration section,
we have information about the board and
zoning appeals and the planning board and
what was added into those sections were an
option for having alternate members of the
BZA and the planning board.We currently
don't have a provision for that.That was
a recommendation that came up years ago to
add that to the zoning law.
(PHONE RINGS).
PUBLIC:It's me.
MS.KILEY:Just a little
distracting.Then the special permit
procedure was changed a little bit.So it
is to be reviewed by the planning board,
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and we also added review criteria to that
section which had not been included before
and site plan review process is just much
more streamlined than it had been in the
past,and there was a change in state law a
few years ago that addressed reservation of
park land or money for under residential
development so that was included in our
zoning law to be consistent with the state
regulation.This article three
administration was reviewed by the planning
board and they presented recommendation to
the town board a number of months ago.
Under the definition section,the few
changes that were included there is a
minimum dwelling unit size was removed.We
improved the flag law description.The
planning board worked on that.Throughout
the document the reference to code
enforcement officer was changed to zoning
officer and then we added a number of new
definitions,clear cut,tree,unique
natural area,slope overlay area,and the
bike,ski rental business.
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Under the nonconformance which I will
address towards the end of the
presentation,the reason why that was,
there was some changes made there,because
that hasn't been changed in the zoning
documents since 1960.There's been some
confusion between nonconforming uses and
nonconforming building and also the town
board is expanding some of the allowances
so that you can have a voluntary demolition
and rebuild that in the same square footage
and footprint and height and then they also
extended the timeline for rebuilding.
This is the cover of the
comprehensive plan that was adopted in
September 2009,and a number of the
objectives that were part of the
comprehensive plan under objective number
one which was to preserve and protect the
town's natural and environmental resources.
It has letters A,E,and H which all are
addressed by the zoning changes presented
in this --for this proposal,to
investigate and implement different
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mechanisms to protect and preserve
environmentally sensitive areas,such as
steep slopes,wetlands,unique natural
areas and so on,and then to enact zoning
regulations to protect the Cayuga Lake
waterfront,and the third one listed here
is for official recognition and
preservation of the unique natural areas.
So the town board did pass a resolution in
2010 concurring with the designation of the
unique natural area as was presented by the
Tompkins County Environmental Management
council.The comprehensive plan includes a
future of the land use plan which is part
of the map as shown here which on the
Cayuga lakeshore shows the lakeshore area
and conservation area.So the idea behind
the future of land use plan is to identify
how the town would look ideally in the
future as development occurs.Specifically
within the lakeshore future land use area,
it describes that area as a natural --as
natural and environmental resources that
should be considered as part of development
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process.That special consideration should
be given to steep slopes,water quality,
erosion,and viewed as that there is
environmental sensitivity as needed for
establishing strong building regulations.
Any future development should be evaluated
for any negative impacts on natural
resources and the mechanism to achieve
these goals include overlay zones,size,
and density limitations,et cetera.
The conservation area also is
described in the comprehensive plan that
that's the area of steeply sloping land
that is to the west of 89 and it also warns
a high level of scrutiny for any new
developments,their environmental sensitive
area that demands that establishing strong
building regulations and also have a list
of mechanisms for that protection.
This is our existing zoning map.You
can see in this area of the orange is all
the R1,rural residence districts and that
includes a few more spots throughout the
town in R1 zone.This is a proposed zoning
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map which keeps everything to the west of
conservation zone as the same.I'm going
to just zoom in a little bit.So it has
the lakeshore zone in the purplish color
and conservation zone in the aqua color and
also the marina district and I just want to
point out the Girl Scout camp has been in
the park and recreation district,the Girl
Scout camp and Cayuga Nature Center as well
as the Taughannock Park.That's all been
in the park recreation and it's going to
remain in that.So there is no change to
the zoning in those areas.And we'll also
be discussing the unique natural areas and
slope overlay areas that's shown in the
hatching here.That's one of the maps of
the handout.The intent of these is not to
prevent any development,but it just is to
require an extra level of review and using
site plan review taking into account the
sensitivity of those areas.So as far as
the unique natural areas as I mentioned
it's a designation by the Tompkins County
Environmental Management Council,the
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original,they began doing the work in 1973
and I think they had a couple different
variations and the last update was finished
in 2000 and in 2010.The Town of Ulysses
passed a resolution concurring with the
designation,and in this the lakeshore and
conservation area,there are three
different unique natural areas and the
reasons they were selected are listed here,
because the geologic important,part
aesthetic,scenic value,and the plant
community where scarce plants and old
growth forest.This is the Willow Creek
Glen and lake slopes area to the south of
Craft Road and little to the east of
Taughannock Boulevard around Willow Creek
Point Road and the other two unique natural
areas include the Maplewood Glen lake
slopes and the Glenwood ravine and lake
slopes which is south,towards the southern
end of town.
In the slope overlay area,we --
there are a couple different iterations on
how to protect steep slopes but this is a
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little more specific than just using one
percentage.We are actually targeting six
specific soil types,because of their
steepness and erodible characteristics and
they are just of particular concern and so
those are the soil types that are listed in
for the slope overlay area.And I chatted
with a couple different people on the phone
today and recently about how do you really
look at your specific site.This was in a
previous presentation.The best way to do
it is to go through the NRCS's web soil
survey.So if you just do a Google search
on that,find this website and has a little
green button you push,then you go into a
mapping,interactive mapping site where you
can click on your --zoom in and look at
your property and then you can come up with
a soils map.And so you can see that there
are different soil types within a property.
And this is an example of one that's in the
conservation district,and it has a number
of soils that are similar to those in the
slope overlay area,but percentages are
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lower than threshold for the slope overlay
area.So they would not be subject to site
plan review.
Within the conservation and lakeshore
districts they include purpose,the
permitted uses either as of right uses or
accessory site plan review or special
permit,lot area and yard requirements and
design standards.Just as a note,Liz
mentioned this in her introduction,that
the in lake structures,the docks,boat
hoists,et cetera are not addressed in the
proposed zoning law.
The purpose for the lakeshore and
conservation district are pretty similar.
That they are pretty general protection and
preservation statements about the Cayuga
Lake unique natural areas and the slope
overlay area.
Permitted uses include very similar
to what's in the R1 district now,and the
site plan approval requirement is only if
the proposed project is in a unique natural
area or in a slope overlay area.So this
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is,I am just going to run through these,
just the uses that are allowed by site plan
approval in the lakeshore district and then
here in,this is in the accessory uses in
the conservation district and site plan
approval is only required in a UNA or slope
overlay area.Uses allowed by special
permit in the lakeshore and the
conservation more the commercial and
nonresidential type uses.In terms of the
lot area and yard requirements on the
right-hand side is the current R1
regulation and there is lakeshore,
nonlakeshore and conservation listed.And
the town,we've gone back and forth on the
lot area requirement and right now for
lakeshore property it's two acres and,you
know,actually all similar requirements as
the current R1 except for the tree setback
which is actually there is some more
flexibility in terms of the impermanent
streams,except in streams that are in the
unique natural areas or slope overlay area.
And then the conservation district is much
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geared towards much larger lot development.
And the lakeshore and conservation
district also include a number of design
standards,and they're listed as either
requirements or recommendations.So I'm
not going to go through all these.We've
talked about them quite a bit in the past.
So there is streams and wetlands
design standards.In terms of the
vegetation and landscape,the requirements
for tree removal is that no approval is
needed if a tree is a threat to life or
property.So if it's too close to your
house or concerned about it falling down,
no permission is needed for removing that.
If there is a building permit,any of the
trees in the footprint for that
construction area can be removed.In both
the conservation and lakeshore zone,clear
cutting is prohibited by this definition,
and then only in the unique natural areas
and slope overlay areas is a woodland
management plan required for firewood and
lumber and forest management in other area
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so outside of the UNA and slope overlay
areas,the forest management plan is only a
recommendation for tree removal.So trees
can be removed for any reason outside of
the UNAs and slope overlay area without a
woodland management plan or without
permission from the town.Then we have a
number of recommendations,and these were
developed by the various committees working
on this and wanted to keep them in the
zoning regulations as just some guidelines
for future development.
It also includes design standards for
soil and sediment control mostly targeted
in the unique natural areas and slope
overlay areas.Design standards for
driveway and parking.The only requirement
is to avoid backing vehicles onto 89 and
that's again for new development.That
does not impact the existing parking that
might be already in existence along 89.
The subdivision requirement for the
lakeshore and the conservation is that
simple and minor subdivisions are allowed
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as well as cluster subdivisions,but major
subdivisions which is four or more lots are
prohibited.Lakeshore adds on several
requirements of what's needed to be shown
on a subdivision plot.
In the marina district as we were
developing the lakeshore district at some
point,we realized that to continue having
the yacht club in the residential district
wasn't very applicable.So the idea was to
preserve what is in existence on the lake,
and to not have the yacht club be of a
nonconforming use.So we have a number of
these are the permitted uses within that
district,and then their accessory uses to
would be accessory to an allowed use and a
number of uses kind of more business
office,and retail,and restaurant site
plan review and several uses allowed by
special permit,and then those that we also
apply the lot area and yard requirements to
that zone which is in comparison with the
current R1 district.
I'll just talk about a number of uses
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that need to go through site plan review.
This is a four phase current site plan
review process,and as we've been looking
at reviewing the Article 3 section of the
zoning law,we decided that this is an area
that really needs some improvement to
streamline the process.So it's going from
this four phase approach to a much simpler
one or two submission approach which should
be easier on the applicant regardless of
what the project is.The nonconformance
section includes several different
sections.I've talked about this at I
forget how many meetings now I'm going to
go into a lot of different details other
than quickly review,what is a
nonconforming use:A nonconforming use has
either been in existence since before we
had zoning and it's no longer allowed in
that zone or it's an existing use that's in
an existing R1 zone or another district and
then that use is no longer allowed in the
district so it becomes nonconforming.If
an existing use is single family or two
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family and the zoning district changes to
lakeshore and conservation,they both allow
for residential uses so that residential
use continues as a conforming use.So it's
not nonconforming,and so any issues with
nonconforming uses are not applicable to
that because it's a conforming use.There
is no time limits on occupying structures
or not occupying.I think that was a
concern that came up a number of months
ago.And so what's a nonconforming
structure:It's an existing structure that
does not meet the lot dimension
requirements,and I will show an example of
this in the next slide,and/or existing
structure can become nonconforming if the
zoning changes and the lot doesn't meet the
new district requirements.In this example
there is a house that's built really close
to a southern property line and right now,
the requirement in the R1 district is a 15
foot side yard setback,and that's what is
continuing into the future for the
lakeshore zone.Say this house is 10 feet
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away from the property line instead of 15
feet,you can add on to any side of the
house except for this southern property
line.So you can't get any closer to the
neighboring property line.You can't
increase the amount of conformity in that
area,but you can add on in different areas
within the property.And a lot of the lots
at least on the lakeshore are smaller than
what's required with the two acre zoning
and actually the 1960 zoning had a 2,000
square foot area requirement,and this just
shows that there is even within a much
smaller lot than what's required right now,
you have a buildable area meeting all the
setbacks,50 feet from the road and the
lake and 15 feet from the side yard,and
with a five percent lot coverage,you have
about a thousand square feet of lot
coverage.So if you have an existing house
that has a 700 square foot footprint,you
have 300 square feet for either an addition
or a new building and then you can even
build up,and we have a 32 foot high height
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requirement.That's just some of the
options that there are with even some of
the smaller lots.
Then I'm going to turn it back over
to Liz.I've again been getting a lot of
e-mails today,and so those will be
incorporated as part of the written
comments section and all of the verbal
comments tonight will be taken into account
and I'll let Liz talk about that some more.
MS.THOMAS:So hang on one second.
All right.So back to you.The purpose of
the public hearing is to afford the general
public an opportunity to make statements
and comments about the proposed amendments
to the Town of Ulysses zoning law,and
allow for a smooth and fair process and
ensure that everyone who wants to speak can
be heard,this won't be a question and
answer session.At previous town board
meetings,there were presentations about
the proposed amendments to the zoning law
by the planner.
The hearing will remain open until
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all members of the public who are present
at the hearing have --who want to speak
are given an opportunity to make statements
or comments on the proposed amendments.
There is a stenographic transcript of this
hearing being made.Comments presented at
this hearing will be taken into
consideration by the town board when it
considers action on the proposed local law.
The town board may take action on a
proposal of the law later this month at a
meeting set on December 10th and December
17th,but the agenda for those meetings
have not yet been set.The agenda will be
on the website.
Written comments submitted prior to
this public hearing will be considered by
the town board.The town board will also
accept and consider additional written
comments received until the end of
tonight's public hearing.I request that
speakers sign in on the sheet by the door.
Those wishing to speak are asked to speak
at this microphone here.In order to give
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everyone an opportunity to speak,each
speaker will be allotted three minutes to
make their comments.Speakers will be
given a signal when one minute of their
time remains.You may but are not required
to state your name and address.If you are
appearing as a representative of an
organization or government entity,please
again identify the organization or entity
and its address.Please speak clearly into
the microphone.
So next I will address some
administrative matters by asking the
stenographer to mark the documents I
provided to her earlier as exhibits to the
hearing transcript.And I provided her
with a public hearing notice that appeared
in the Ithaca Journal on November 21st,
2013.There is also an affidavit of
publication in the Ithaca Journal and
posting and also a copy of all the 189
pages of the local law.
So now I would like to ask anyone who
would like to speak to approach the
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microphone.It might make sense just for
people to approach,maybe have three at a
time up there,something like that.I
don't have a system,just,you know,you
just have to come up.Also before we get
started,those of you who are in the back
there is still,you know,quite a few seats
up here in the front if you'd like to come
up and sit.So speakers and members of the
audience should observe commonly accepted
rules of courtesy and public decorum and
respect the rights of others to different
viewpoints.So with that,I mean,we could
raise hands if you want,and I can call on
you or,who would like to --well,who like
to begin?Must be somebody here wants to
make a comment.
MR.ZESERSON:Just a housekeeping
note.This is my sound system the mic goes
up and down.We're not all the same sizes
so the way you adjust it,is just,go up go
down.Okay.
I'm Ken Zeserson,and I speak as a
lakeshore dweller and also as the Ulysses
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Planning Board Chairman.We're in that
second half,I wanted to submit in the
record the resolution that the planning
board passed November 19th.I know the
town board has seen it,but I want to make
sure it's in the resolution.I'm not going
to bore us all by reading it,especially
because Ms.Kiley did a great job of citing
the parts to me that are the most
important.The planning board follows the
recommendations of the regulations of the
comprehensive plan,is one of things we're
supposed to do.And the comprehensive plan
clearly,as you've already heard,says
we're supposed to be considering the
environmental sensitivity of the
conservation area and establish zoning
regulations and we're supposed to
investigate,implement,manage,protect and
preserve environmentally sensitive areas
such as steep slopes,wetlands,unique
natural areas,what have you.So that's
what we did as a planning board.I also
want to stress that the process of the
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proposal was indeed transparent and open to
all citizens.I know you've heard that
already,but it really is true and a lot of
people just don't seem to believe it.
Those that feel that feel they were shut
out,just didn't take advantage of it until
recently,and to me that's very good news.
I'd like to point out this has been a
contentious process.We all know that,but
one reason the draft nonconformance to the
grandfathering clause as Darby just
explained to you,as raised by the
lakeshore association.They raised really
good issues about that that we haven't
considered since 1960s,not that I've been
here that long.It's a document as result
of their input.Let's also remember the
most contentious issues,is the repairing
dock issues,they're not even involved here
tonight.As far as --there still has been
a lot of contentious back and forth and we
recently had an election,and I would like
to call the board's attention to the
results of that election,because I think
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in effect it was done on lakeshore zoning.
This is what was worked out to be,because
two of the candidates were running for town
board clearly said that they were running
only because they wanted to dismantle this
potential resolution --regulation.They
lost sizably in town by a two to one margin
and two,most salient,is they didn't even
win the lakeshore.They didn't win the
lakeshore,and presumably didn't win
because of zoning.I would hope you take
that into consideration.Finally I'd like
to take a step back if we all could,we're
getting a little nutty,but we all have to
think hard about this,not just what's in
front of our face,but the world outside,
the people running for the town board in
line,we're running on issues of property
rights --
PUBLIC:Three minutes.
MR.ZESERSON:I'd like to talk about
the rights of property.The rights of
property and --
PUBLIC:Three minutes.
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MR.ZESERSON:If you want to hear
about the rights of property,talk to me
after.
MS.THOMAS:Do we have another
speaker?
MR.REYNOLDS:Hello,everyone.I'm
Greg Reynolds.1084 Glenwood Heights Road.
Our family has over 200 some acres in the
proposed conservation area.I don't really
recall getting an e-mail or call to discuss
that area with anybody,but I have been
here and I have participated,and I've
tried to do it in an amicable way and not
finger pointing or backstabbing or anything
like that.We also own property next to
the yacht club,and I'm not quite sure from
the level of map how far it extends or if
it's to the current yacht club property or
not.Family's in the area over 90 years.
We've worked very hard.My Uncle Dick,
caring for the property and caring for the
Black Diamond Trail which we support and
you'll see the best maintained spots of the
trail between Perry City Road and the Town
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of Ithaca.There is a reason for that,my
Uncle Dick.And you know,as a kid growing
up here for the three months of the year I
was allowed to be here and being a part of
the agriculture and farming put that in my
heart to come back here and do the same
thing.And we really want to work with the
community to keep that going for our fifth
generation kids who are now doing it,one
of them full time and I'm very proud of
that.Not only is it a sustainable
business,it's a growing business and we're
able to have more interns and put more
agriculture in the spirit of the younger
generation and just hope after taking care
of the property for 90 years I don't have
to ever get in a situation to be told how
to take care of it still.Thank you.
MR.FALLON:My name is Tim Fallon,I
live at 3 Maplewood Point,Ithaca.The
town board may have been working on the
zoning since September 2012,but for the
whole time you've absolutely tried to
block,ignore the Ulysses Lakeshore
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Association also known to ULA.It has
taken multiple town meetings to make simple
requests for corrections to technical
issues such as buoys,streams,and
surveying.No wonder it seems to be such a
long process.There's been a consistent
lack of town deliberation on many items
brought forward by the ULA and residents
that should have been discussed by the town
board.Last minute changes were made that
even blindsided your fellow town board
member.Questions of process,integrity
have also been raised by a town board
member.For all the time you've spent,the
proposed zoning document is lacking
definitions for some key,long debated key
items and at least five articles or
sections that are referenced throughout the
document don't even exist.The town's
using the 2009 comprehensive plan as
justification for proposed zoning,but the
comprehensive plan survey was more general
as quoted by Supervisor Thomas in the
November 30 Ithaca Journal article.This
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is a core issue that the residents have
been making for the last 30 months.Last
February the ULA asked for a proper survey
for that request and got no response,even
in July when 55 percent of property owners
petitioned for a proper survey.The Town
still denied the request without one bit of
public deliberation.The Ithaca Journal
quotes the town is essentially not going to
ask the residents whether the zoning
changes are desirable.Is that because you
already know that the answer does not agree
with you?This zoning process is like
continuing to force us into a new car and
then holding a public hearing to see if we
want blue or green,even though we don't
even want a new car.
For five years the Trumansburg Sewer
Plant has been polluting the streams in the
town of Ulysses and Cayuga Lake.When this
was brought up at a town meeting,the
initial response was to ignore the
citizens'concern.It was a number of ULA
members that finally got the town to pay
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attention.
The Black Diamond Trail has been the
environmental poster child for Ulysses and
an environmental disaster.The
multilocation erosion on the Black Diamond
Trail is enormous.At one location a 25
foot section of the trail has washed away
leaving a 17 feet deep ravine.The erosion
was caused by inadequate maintenance and/or
design and additional DOT cleanup costs
were around $100,000.I believe we all
share concerns for the environment and
Cayuga Lake.With most of Ulysses
lakeshore already developed,property
owners are well aware of dealing with steep
slopes.The cost of erosion or other steep
slope issues fall squarely on the property
owner.There is a huge self interest by
owners to mitigate environmental issues and
they have done rather well with that
without Ulysses micromanaging.I wish the
town would focus on building community for
things like a Friends of Black Diamond
Trail for things like working with other
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municipalities for the big picture common
goals.They need to focus on real time
business instead of trying to micromanage
the lake district properties owners.The
existing R1 zoning is sufficient.
MS.LAMBERT:Hi,there.My name is
Hilary Lambert.I'm the Executive Director
of the Cayuga Lake Watershed Network.
Thank you for this opportunity to comment.
The Cayuga Lake Watershed Network was
established in mid 1990s.It's a small
nonprofit with about 500 members to work
with agencies,municipalities,and
organizations to support research,public
education,and protection of the 860 square
mile Cayuga Lake watershed.The network
encourages and supports lake fronts and
slope conservation practices that protect
the lake's water quality.Effective
conservation practices here must focus on
Ulysses'steep slopes,streams,and gorges
to minimize erosion and water impacts.
The draft law supports good practices
in several ways including prohibition of
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the altering of streams,a recommendation
to avoid plowing salt-laden snow to
streams,consideration of variations in
tributary-courses when siting docks,
minimizing bank erosion by retaining
vegetation and/or removing invasive plants;
encouraging native plants,and not blocking
streams with structures.Provisions about
removal of trees and erosion control are
good recommendations.Setbacks,
recommendations for us on permeable
surfaces for driveways and parking areas,
and restrictions on excavation in
vulnerable areas are also prudent measures.
The draft law identifies slope overlay
areas that are vulnerable to erosions
because of soil and steepness combinations.
Each soil type is associated with a range
of slopes which we assume defines the
natural range of vulnerable slope for each
of those soil types.Thus vulnerable lands
may be fairly well identified,although the
possibility of slope variation within a
tract of land should be clarified.
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These proposed water protective
provisions will benefit all users.We
congratulate the Town of Ulysses for the
development of a protective zoning law that
will ensure long term shoreline and water
quality protection and support its passage.
Thank you.
MR.RICHARDS:Good evening.My name
is Ben Richards,and I live at 1220 Perry
City Road,and I also own an adjacent lot
to that.My request is somewhat kind of
personal is that under,within UNA 62 and
how it was drawn my house,half of my house
is in R1,and half of my house is now going
to be in the conservation district.I am
just simply asking that when you look at
how these were drawn,use some common sense
and not just follow what the UNA broke
down,because my lots now --I sent a
letter to Darby,and I'll follow up with
all of you also looking,but just use some
common sense.I have several impermanent
creeks on my property,but for some reason
they listed one and followed it all the way
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up into my property when many of the other
impermanent creeks in my property are not,
wasn't done with that at all.That's my
request.I'll send a follow up to Darby
and the rest of you also.Thank you.
MR.RIEDERER:Yes,I'm Heinz
Riederer.I live at 1 Maplewood Point.
I've been here on numerous occasions,and
today I have a short statement.I have
appeared before you on numerous occasions
pointing to procedural issues relative to
the above referenced zoning proposal.
Tonight I'm wondering if the proper
notification has been given to all those
entitled to notice concerning this matter.
Since I'm only able to speak for three
minutes,I would like to incorporate all my
previous formal objections to this proposed
zoning law which are recorded in minutes of
prior meetings of the board,into the
record of this meeting,specifically but
not limited to my comments of November
12th,November 18th,and November 26th.
I've included copies of the minutes.Land
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use regulations are often unnecessary and
counterproductive.This regulation is
particularly troubling relative to future
land values and represents a taking of the
land in many instances.Unintended
consequences have not been fully
considered.In summary,there is no
inherent evil or demonstrated problem with
current zoning.What's the rush?Frankly,
what's the rush?The two new board members
which are coming aboard on the 1st of
January should have an opportunity to weigh
in on this proposed zoning laws.
I have a short statement from Mrs.
Bioudi.She indicates I am against this
proposed zoning law on the basis that it
restricts property rights.Mrs.Bioudi
lives at 4 Maplewood Point.
I have a short statement from my
wife,Anna Riederer.I'm against this
proposed zoning law on the basis it
represents a taking of the land without
compensation.Thank you.
MS.THOMAS:Do we have anyone else
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who would like to speak?
MS.ANGER:Hi,my name is Barbara
Anger,and I have property at 1583
Taughannock Boulevard.I know there is a
lot of acrimony around the zoning,that no
one likes to feel restricted or controlled;
however,I believe that even though it's
not perfect,proposed lakeshore zoning is
more protecting the lakeshore and the
quality of the lake for our community than
restricting.I live next to the Girl Scout
Camp and the proposed zoning would preserve
the land in the camp.Under the present
zoning it could be developed into a
residential community that could change,
negatively change the land,environment,--
the land is environmentally sensitive areas
and ecology of more than a mile of natural
beauty and home to unique wildlife
indigenous to this area.I feel it's
important to maintain these natural
resources and to preserve them.I truly
appreciate those who are already
maintaining the quality of the lakeshore
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even without zoning,but I believe that
forethought often prevents natural
disaster.
MR.CULLER:My name is Johnathon
Culler.I own a small cottage on the lake
in the Town of Ulysses.My entire property
is nonconforming.Our lot is too small,
the house is much too near the property
line,et cetera,but I would urge you to go
ahead and pass this,the proposed zoning
regulations.I think second,Hilary
Lambert's remarks about the importance of
protecting the lakeshore environment
especially in areas where they're quite
closely packed together.Clear cutting on
one piece of land across the road could
quite radically disturb the small lots of
many of us on the downstream on the
lakeside of Route 89.The question about
takings without compensation or without due
procedures makes one wonder what sorts of
plans these lake dwellers might have for
their properties.For the most part lake
properties have been in quite good shape
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these days and people are,as several
speakers have said,maintaining the
environment quite well in the existing
properties,but it really is a deep concern
that passing this rather modest zoning law
is the taking of property makes one fear
all more for plans of some land owners to
do something fairly radical and disruptive
to the environment.
MR.PENNINGROTH:Hi,my name is
Steve Penningroth.I live at 2080 Cayuga
View Road.I'm also the Director of
Community Science Institute.We have a
water quality monitoring program in the
Town of Ulysses which is supported by the
Ulysses Town Board and by seven other
municipal governments in Tompkins County.
And I don't have any prepared remarks.I
have studied the plan carefully,but my
sense is that it is not onerous,and it is
in fact just prudent management,and it's
--I think plans like this are intended for
the minority of cases when there's a
problem.I think in vast majority of cases
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people do the right thing.I think people
here who have owned lands for generation
are doing the right thing,but that does
not mean that someone who would come along
or a company would come along at some point
and not do the right thing.That's what
these kind of plans are for.It's like
insurance.You buy insurance for the
accident case,not for the every day,the
99.99 percent of the time,when,you know,
when there is no problem.I guess I'd also
like to,you know,commend the West Shore
Homeowner's Association whom has,they have
become concerned about the possibility of
contamination along the lakeshore for
pathogenic bacteria.We've started working
with them to collect samples and hopefully
figure out whether the onsite septic
systems along the lake are functioning or
not and that's,you know,I think a good
thing.And if there were more,if there
were,how should I say this,less
vegetation on the slopes,if there is more
runoff,you're going to get more bacteria
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in the lake and --I've talked for two
minutes already.I'm sorry.Sorry.Okay
just 30 more seconds,but you get more
runoff.So just looking at it from that
angle of,you know,wanting to protect the
lake from pathogenic bacteria,run down
streams,or you know,roll off the slopes,
you know,there is runoff,I think that,
you know,maintaining the vegetation and
natural areas on the slope overlay is
really important.Thank you.
MR.WILSON:Don Wilson,lifetime
lakeshore resident,Willow Creek Point.
Like many of you,I made some zoning
comments at the public meeting a year ago
in October.Following that,I was
appointed to the ad hoc committee,planning
committee to review the lake front
regulations,the proposed regulations.In
the past year,I've learned more about
zoning than I ever thought I wanted to.
And you can ask me these questions about
this later,but I'd like just to make some
general comments now.The --when the ad
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hoc committee was formed,the Ulysses
Lakeshore Association put forth five names
to be on the committee.You can argue
whether that's a good idea to overwhelm the
committee that way or not,but one person
that was appointed,that was me,and I
think that the bias here was my self
described conservationist philosophy.The
committee has met over the course of six
months.At the last public meeting Darcy
made very good notes on all of your
comments and they were all addressed,and I
think it's overstating an issue to say that
the people sitting in front you have not
been listening.I believe they have been
listening.I've gotten to know Liz Thomas
over the past year,and I know that she
does listen to all of these comments.You
may not agree on the results,but you're
being listened to.
Another point to make relates to the
public relations nightmare of the past
year.This is more of a plea than a
comment.I would suggest we try to put
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this behind us.Ulysses Lakeshore
Association has acted as a gad ply
(phonetic),it has been very helpful in
pushing the process forward but the
polarization involved also creates the
other factors of anger,personal attacks,
things that we are not,that we should be a
little embarrassed about maybe.And I
think we don't have to forget these things,
but we can put them behind us to try to
move forward,and what I would suggest is
that we look at the document as it stands
at this moment in black and white in front
of us and not the past year.Occasionally
CNN starts to report news.
(TIME BUZZER SOUNDS).
MR.WILSON:I'm going to ignore
that.Reports news as it's happening and
then turns out not to be news.
MS.THOMAS:Don,I'm sorry.I have
to cut you off here.
MR.WILSON:The news reporting of
the past year has --in the case of our
present document proven to be not news.
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MS.THOMAS:Don,I can't let you go
on.I'm sorry.
MR.WILSON:Okay.As I said,I've
learned quite a bit about this.You can
ask me afterwards too.
MS.McCANN:Cheryl McCann,and we
own land at 40 Maplewood and our land is
designated as part of the unique natural
area,slope overlay,and lakeshore zones.
The proposed zoning laws place undue
hardship on us and other landowners.Our
dream to build a home on our land will be
too prohibited if this document is pressed
on.For every step of the way including a
simple driveway we'll have to go through a
site plan review,employ a town board
appointed engineer and licensed forester
with no guarantee that we will be able to
move forward.We can not afford all this.
These proposed zoning laws are too
restrictive and cross the line of
unnecessary self interested exclusion.A
member of the ad hoc committee described
the situation of eminent domain.As a
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zoning law has been greatly relaxed across
our street on the lakeshore side,our side
has been tightened to where its virtually
impossible to build,all in the guise of
conserving the lake.The zoning laws
should separate land uses for the good of
the community,not limit other people's
property rights for the benefit of the
select few.
I'm hoping and hopeful our many
voices and concerns will be heard and
considered but disheartened when I hear the
Town Board Supervisor say the public
hearing is a misnomer.What purpose is
served by an e-mail that I have here that
the town board is instructed by two lawyers
not to speak or respond tonight.This is
the kind of undemocratic process we have
been dealing with since the last public
hearing in October 2012.The town board
has refused to respond to many of our
requests for clarification,information,
and fairness and inclusiveness.Please
postpone the vote on this document and have
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a dialogue with the affected landowners and
citizens.Thank you.
MS.MARKS:My name is Katie Marks.
I live on Garrett Road.My property
extends down to Route 89.I'm only here
tonight,because I bought my property a
year and a half ago.I only knew about
this evening because of some kind neighbors
who left me a wonderful letter about what's
going on,and I have a unique situation,
because the home that I live on is also the
Black Diamond Trail so I have to build a
driveway now down to Route 89,and because
of all these new zoning laws,it will make
my life a lot more difficult,and I would
like you to extend some time before moving
forward on this vote.I understand it's my
responsibility as a citizen to know what's
going on in this area and something like
this is now moving me forward to know more,
but I think as a young homeowner,there
wasn't enough outreach.So I would like
more,to be informed.Thank you.
MR.CLEMENT:Hi,my name is Dan
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Clement.I live on Dubois Road,5027.We
own land that's below the Black Diamond
Trail and adjoins part of the nature
center.It's in the unique natural areas.
I want to talk just about the requirements
you have a forester,pay a forester to make
a report in order to cut firewood,and I
think we own about probably 40 acres of
woods.Before I came,I just looked
briefly on the Internet and it seems like
there might be something about 500 trees on
the average acre of land.So that's 20,000
trees,maybe 10,000.I take like 10 or 15
trees.And I think that it would be silly
to require someone in my situation to hire
a forester to make a report.My concern
would be that they would probably suggest I
take down more trees than I have the time
to take down to clean the forest.It's a
lot different than having somebody clear
cut or do a heavy forest cutting for timber
and there should be a threshold before that
requirement clicks in.Thank you.
MR.SMITH:My name is Don Smith,and
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I live at 1329 Taughannock Boulevard,and
I'm primarily here about focusing on the
lakeshore on this side.I appreciate one
of the things that Don said.You have to
look,forget about some of the things that
have been said in last year.There have
been a huge amount of just simply incorrect
interpretations of what was being proposed,
just absolutely crazy,inappropriate
statements made,and it's got a lot of
people inappropriately upset.You have to
look at this with a clear eye,and when you
do so you'll see some majority advantages
on the layout of this today.One of things
that is a total misconception is people are
saying my God,90 percent of properties are
nonconforming.Yeah,it's true.That's
not because of current zoning.That's
because of zoning in 1960 or 1972 or 2002
not because of now.If you look at that
one chart that Darby had up here,it had
some sections there that showed current
setback for proposed lakeshore zoning in
comparing it with R1.You know what's
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different?What's different is it makes it
now --what's now different is you can go
25 feet away from that street rather than
50 feet.This gives you more freedom from
a setback perspective in relation to lake
frontage,in relation to wide area,side
setback,building height,all of the
setbacks are the same.You now have more
freedom from a setback perspective.Look
at that slide.Number two are the revised
grandfather laws.Without getting in
detail,this gives you more freedom.It
gives you more rights from a property
perspective.Number three the proposed
zoning permits your neighbor to clear cut
trees.I hear what you're saying in
relation to Route 89.I really appreciate
people taking care of their properties.My
goodness sakes,across the street from me
on Route 89,they're clear cutting for
goodness sakes.They're just cutting it
all down,and it just makes me cry.Right
now you can clear cut one acre with a
simple burning permit.Proposed zoning may
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facilitate securing public water for people
on Route 89 and Maplewood.Proposed zoning
helps reduce the pollution and runoff from
construction.There's been some recent
projects that you've seen that are just
absolutely --one gentleman he totally
removed a mountain.He removed a mountain.
That's just a shame.That shouldn't
happen.You can still do it,you just need
to get reviews.Thank you so much.
MS.FLANNERY:Gail Flannery,
1157 Taughannock Boulevard.I think a
lot's already been said that I had written
down,and I also think that a lot of angst
could have been avoided if the board had
answered one question,and that was asked
several times:What are the problems that
we're addressing with this zoning?What
are the issues?You can wrap your head
around that,but when you can't get that
answer,it makes you wonder where you're
heading.I can still say I don't get a lot
of it.I really don't.I spent a lot of
time looking at the comprehensive plan.
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It's a lot more general,and I see that the
people want to protect the natural
resources,and I say who doesn't?I mean,
nobody's out to pollute the lake especially
people that live on it.That would be
stupid.So I think overall we've done a
pretty good job with that.The other thing
I saw in the comprehensive plan,we live in
a small,rural,character town.We like
that.We don't want to live in the City of
Ithaca.We don't want to be micromanaged.
We do a good job without asking how high do
we have to jump.I think that's important
to the character of a small town.
Finally,I have one other question.
I see that there is a cluster development
and the lake frontage has been reduced to
150 feet.I haven't heard any discussion
of this previously by the board.I am
wondering what it is,if it pertains to the
parks and recreation which would be the
Girl Scout Camp,because that's the only
last piece of land to be developed and I'm
wondering why we would be encouraging this
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kind of development.Thank you.
MS.WARNER:Hi,I'm Beth Warner.I
live at 1055 Glenwood Heights Road.I was
one of the unsuccessful lieutenant
candidates for the town board that Mr.
Zeserson spoke so kindly of.I'm proud to
have run even unsuccessfully,because I
think we brought up the zoning issues to
the election,otherwise they would not have
been addressed at all.One other candidate
ran on passing zoning.
My concerns about the conservation
and the marina district,the marina
district zoning was just written three
months ago and does not have the proper
time for members to consider and I would
like to have this whole portion delayed,if
not the whole thing.I live in the
conservation district.Believe me,there
are no advantages of being in the
conservation district unlike maybe the
lakeshore district.If the ultimate goal
of this zoning is to protect the lake,the
setbacks,minimum lot,building height,lot
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size,coverage,et cetera they are of
little or no value.There are right now
existing precautions that should be used
and enforced to prevent soil erosion and
stripping of the land like this person up
on 89,that's preventable right now.We
have current regulations.It should be
enforced to prevent this kind of thing.
Excuse me.And prevent the soil erosion
into the stream beds and the lake from the
roofs and pavements during construction,
and any existing storm water practices that
mitigate runoff from completed structures.
We are not against zoning,but we are --we
need to create better balance here of
keeping the rural character of the
community,but not at the detriment of our
tax base.We want to be environmentally
sensitive but not to the extreme of the
town dictating what size or type of tree we
can cut down on our own property.The town
board may have been working on these
additions for several years,but several
conservation district residents have been
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unaware of these issues.There are people
who are directly affected,but have not
been notified that it even affects them.
We were told by the town board that it'd be
too difficult to notify all these people,
but we on our own put up fliers over the
weekend.I'm glad to hear we did help some
people to be notified about this.What I'm
asking is I'd like the zoning to be opposed
and to ask you to truly listen to the
resident's concerns.
MS.SHELLY:I'm Mary Shelly.I have
property at 1383 Taughannock Boulevard.I
guess the thing that bothers me the most is
all the animosity,one side plotting for
one,one side for the other,I'd just stop
the plotting,because I hate the animosity.
And I totally,you know,I don't want to
stop anybody from cutting fire wood on
their land,but let me just describe what
it's like on my property there is no trees
above me and when it rains,it's
(indicating)right down the hill and I get
floods right into of the basement if I'm
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not careful,and I got my property very
cheaply,because somebody cut down a very
large tree that caused all the steps to
erode.So,you know,that --it happens.
And so I think people are trying to do the
best they can,and I'm hoping this gets put
behind us and we're all friends in the end
so.Okay.
MR.McCANN:Lawrence McCann,2115
Taughannock Park Road.We own property at
40 Maplewood,and we're also members of the
Cayuga Lake Watershed.I stood here 13
months ago,October 2012 questioning the
five acre zoning above Maplewood and two
acres directly below in same zoning spot in
the same lakeshore zoning.This is
preferential spot zoning.Five acres
zoning on one side of the street,
Maplewood,and until last week one acre
zoning on the other side,under the guise
of environmental protection suddenly it's
back to two acres.On our land like
everything else it's a highly restrictive
and unfair five acres.It's a total
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inequality.I cannot build in the 75 feet
of abandoned stream.This can be arguably
increased by 50 percent to 112.5 feet and
streams not defined in the zoning draft and
it's not on the map.How is it different
than intermittent streams?They are not
defined either.I cannot build a 144
square foot or less shed on the land
without site plan review on my 6 acres,a
right provided to all New York State
landowners.You do have more freedom along
the lake,but we have significantly less
freedom directly above on Maplewood.Site
plan review is directed for anything,a
walkway,cutting down one tree,any work on
my 6 acres,even the height of planned
house,any filling,any excavation.I note
that Hilary Lambert said it's the
possibility of variation and the slope
needed to be clarified.That's a really
significant statement.I've been saying
that for a year now and no one's paid
attention to it.I don't have time to
cover the varied slope overlay area which
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lacks scientific supporting data.
Everything is more restricted on our side
of the street while everything is
grandfathered by those who control the
process on the other side where it is
steeper,where it is steeper.It's all of
more cost and significant expense.This is
pricing us out.At the public information
meetings no comments,no clarifications
allowed but it was stated the DEC provided
a free licensed forester service for one
requirement.I called DEC after a great
deal of effort,many calls.We offer no
such service on private land they told me.
I also want to state that any
waterfront property owner who owns lake
property within the lakeshore district
should be required to recuse himself from
voting due to a clear inherent conflict of
interest.So I'm requesting that on the
record.I am also providing some of the
statements I've read over the last year
that have been completely ignored.I also
want to finish a really significant point
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that the supervisor in an early summer town
board meeting that she felt it only fair
and reasonable to hold the public hearing
in the summer when the majority of the
residents were present,here on
Thanksgiving weekend,day after.We have
new town board in January.
(TIME BUZZER SOUNDS).
MR.MCCANN:Both incoming members
have expressed the desire to help resolve
this conflict in the next year.What is
the rush?
MR.HOUGHTON:Peter Houghton,1333
Taughannock Boulevard.My family's owned
Cayuga lakefront property in the Town of
Ulysses for over a hundred years.My
family still owns 500 acres of farmland and
woodland dating back to 1929.I'm a
licensed professional engineer with
knowledge of the west short of Cayuga Lake
through my career with the New York State
Department of Transportation and my
personal experience.In addition to the
oral presentations I gave to the board over
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the 15 months,I submitted several written
documents.I want to submit two of those
tonight,which I will give to the
stenographer,to be incorporated into the
record.
I'm not going to rehash all the
comments tonight.I want to focus on two
issues.One of them is first,first with
arbitrary unsubstantiated requirement of a
five acre minimum residential lot within
the conservation zone and parcels within
the lakeshore zone that do not have lake
frontage.In all the months of discussions
and deliberations,there has not been one
substantiation,one justification,nothing
as far as where this five acres came from.
It could have easily been two,three,four,
five,who knows.The answer I was given
was that to protect the old growth timbers,
forests on the steep slopes with highly
erodible soils between Route 89 and the old
Lehigh Valley Railroad.I was told it is
environmentally sound to protect these old
forest lands.Those statements are false.
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The vast majority of timber land on the
west side of Route 89 and portions of the
lakeshore zone are not old growth forests;
they're second,they're second growth
forests.As part of tonight's record,I am
submitting copies of US aerial photography
from June 1938,some 75 years ago,that
shows much of the Town of Ulysses Cayuga
Lake west shore area that clearly shows
many tilled fields and much pasture land
stretching down these hillsides from the
railroad tracks right through 89.Some 60
years ago,they also did the aerial
topography from October 1964 showing the
exact same thing.So it's safe to say,by
various board members that agriculture was
never possible on these slopes,agriculture
can't be possible today are blatantly
false,because it was agriculturally tilled
and pasture in times past.It's not
possible by today's standards with modern
commercial farming,but it's certainly
appropriate for organic farming and for
small vineyards.
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The second issue is one of process
and procedures applied by this board in
developing the ordinances.Many of the
examples used for justification were not
applicable to the Town of Ulysses,the west
shore of Cayuga Lake.There is too much
validity given to a very small marketing
survey.The request for a professionally
developed independent survey of affected
property owners was summarily denied by the
town board.There are far too many private
deliberations and discussions between board
members considering these documents.
Meetings were held in violation of the New
York State open meeting law.There are far
too many special meetings and emergency
board meetings convened with very little
public notice --
(TIME BUZZER SOUNDS).
MR.HOUGHTON:And the second ad hoc
committee was essentially the same as the
first ad hoc committee.It's been
inappropriately handled and ending with a
very,what should I say,document filled
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with problems.Thank you for your time.
MS.THOMAS:Thank you.
MR.BREUHAUS:My name is George
Breuhaus.I live at 1055 Glenwood Heights.
Primarily I'm going to speak on the
conservation district.But the basis for
the zoning,given basis is to protect the
environment.If we're going to protect the
environment,why doesn't the town enforce
DEC simple swim requirements that would
apply to all residents.The partial that's
being clear cut on 89 has no sill fences
protecting the downhill slope,no sill
fence on the driveway,no sill fence
protecting the streams.You've got all
kinds of setback to protect streams,but
you're not even enforcing what you've got
currently.If you don't write it yourself,
well,it must not exist.That doesn't make
any sense.There's no provisions in any of
this for checking existing septic systems.
I live on an intermittent stream,well,
what you would call an intermittent stream,
and occasionally there'd be algae on it.
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Now when the Cognans moved in and cleaned
up the septic system upstream,the algae's
gone.Well,I wonder what happened?
Probably a new septic system.There are
spots in the lake that we know are running
septic.Biggest thing is Village of
Trumansburg sewage treatment plant.Has
the town done anything to request or put
pressure on the village to clear it up.
I've heard that you're monitoring streams.
If that is in fact true,you know what the
data is or --that or you choose to ignore
it.The thing on two acres versus five
acres.Two acres on the lakeshore which
one could argue is the most environmentally
sensitive area,but across the street,up
the slope it's five acres.That doesn't
make any analytical sense.The argument
for slopes,DEC requires no special permits
for soil types A through D.E soils which
basically start with about 25 percent slope
and F soils start at 45 percent do require
special permits.Once again it seems like
it's not understood.
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I'm going to bring up one last point
that I see the zoning officer is being
asked to issue building permits.If you
check the Department of State website that
administers codes,certified code
enforcement officer does that.So unless
Darby,and I didn't see her name as a
certified code enforcement,Alex is.She
cannot by,I believe by state law,enforce,
do the planning review or issue a CO unless
she's a certified code enforcement officer.
Thank you.
MR.COOK:Hi.I'm Peter Cook.I do
not have a dog in this fight,but I have
been on the school board,I don't speak for
them,I'm speaking for myself,for seven
years.I believe that our town needs to
build its tax base.And I'm afraid from
what I hear and sense is that the more you
restrict anybody's building of in a
reasonable --in an unreasonable way,the
more the tax base stays the same.Our
school ten years ago had 1,400 kids.We
now have less than 1,100.We need more
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growth.Now,how that happens,obviously
is contentious.But we need to have and
every zoning board needs to be open and
reasonable,and I think this one will take
that into account when you think about our
1,100 children in our district.This is my
main concern,and I don't want to see our
school in decline.
MS.THOMAS:More comments?
MS.CAIL:Hi,my name's Krys Cail,
and I felt like I've hadn't had an
opportunity to kind of say things before.
So I haven't been coming to most of the
previous events that you've had for public
input.I was involved in drafting the
first comprehensive plan that Ulysses did
back in early 90s,and then spent nine
years on the planning board.Folks who
don't think there's been any issues or
problems associated with updating our
zoning haven't been going to all the
volunteer meetings that I went to.There's
been a lot of work done over the years,and
there's been a lot of issues,been some
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lawsuits,there's definitely been reasons
that zoning has needed to be updated.One
of things I think happens sometimes is the
less you know,the more sure you can be to
know the answer.Sometimes the more you
find out,the more you realize there is 2
or 12 or 15 sides to some issues.In
particular,I think it's really interesting
that although I was on the lakeshore zoning
committee,the original one,and it did
change,because myself as a person who was
in the conservation zone,and not a
lakeshore resident was replaced by Dawn,
who is a lakeshore resident,because those
lakeshore residents really were upset,and
they needed more people who were lakeshore
homeowners on the,you know,in other words
just me,a farmer,what represented the
rest of the town.Most of the lakeshore
zoning was put together by people who lived
on the lakeshore,and yet arguably the lake
does kind of belong to all of us,but I was
particularly interested in some of the
comments that were being made about the
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five acres versus two acres.I want to
really praise the two acres zoning.There
is a rationale for that,and that's that
lakeshore residents are powerful and loud
and rich.And that's why we have two acres
there and those of us who live further up
the hill,you know,in fact of terms of
property loss and so on so forth,you know.
I'm going from a 24 acres that could be
made into 12 housing sites to 24 acres that
can probably be made maximum of three.
That being said,there really aren't
environmental issues involved,and the
business about takings.That's nonsense.
I have a Cornell degree in city planning.
There is no takings going on,but what
there is is maybe some process whereby
people are talking to one another much less
than we should,and when the community is
small,you end up depending on volunteers
to do the work.As I've said,I've been to
meetings maybe over 15 years now working on
zoning as a volunteer,and --
(TIME BUZZER SOUNDS).
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MS.CAIL:--I'm sorry for the lack
of service,folks.
MR.AVERY:Good evening.I'm Ken
Avery.I live at 2 Maplewood Point with my
wife.I'm going to be short,about two
sentences.We strongly oppose the Ulysses
Town Board's new proposed zoning
regulations,and we totally support the
remarks made by Tim Fallon and Peter
Houghton,in this meeting as well as past
meetings.I do thank you for this
opportunity,and I sure hope we can come to
some good conclusions for both parties.
MS.THOMAS:The mic is empty.
Anyone else?
MR.HAWKES:My name is Rod Hawkes.
I live at 5054 Taughannock Boulevard.My
house is in the proposed conservation zone.
I'm a member of a planning board.I
volunteered a number of years ago to help
with whatever,the town,and I was placed
on a comprehensive plan committee.It was
an ongoing process when I joined it.It
evolved into being a member of the planning
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board when a vacancy opened up,and I've
been a member of the planning board since.
I might be the only person maybe,with the
exception of John Wertis,to be involved in
all three of these documents,the
comprehensive plan,the lakeshore district,
and conservation district.I was also
asked to chair the ad hoc committee that
was assigned by the town board to react to
the public comment from the October 2012
public hearing.I think I approached that
entire process,and I think I've been
impressed with all the people that I've
worked with in all these processes with an
open mind.I hope that this is a process
that's taken place over the terms of three
town supervisors,lots of changes in board
members,town board and planning board and
all these committees,and I think that
nothing's perfect,and I think that what we
do with zoning is not address existing
conditions,we're planning for future
conditions and that's been the perspective
I've felt we've taken,I'm speaking for
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everyone I've worked with,various
committees and processes,throughout and
we'll never satisfy everyone,but this is
democratic process.It's as democratic as
it can be.There's concerns voiced tonight
about information and sharing notification,
the town has not done all that it's been
required to and all it can afford to to
notify about each of these processes.We
didn't get all 5,000 people in the town
participating in these activities.I don't
think you ever do.So I appreciate all the
comments tonight.I appreciate all
perspectives,we've appreciated all the
various meetings that we've had.Thank you
and I encourage the town board to move
forward and act swiftly on the process,
because it's been a long time,and a lot of
effort's been made.Thank you.
MS.SULLIVAN:My name is Marissa
Sullivan.My husband and I just purchased
a house on Maplewood about a year and a
half ago.We don't know enough about this
process.We have been informed by a lot of
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it,but we don't have time to be up here
all the time.We're currently renovating,
and we'll be leaving here at some point in
the future.We are concerned that we
haven't had time to really study this.
We're not here,my husband had to go home
back to work today,and I stayed longer
just to come to the meeting tonight,but we
would hope this would be put off and a vote
would be made at a time when people are
here.Thank you.
MR.ABLE:I'm a lakeshore resident,
but from the Town of Ithaca,and it's very
clear,very near to Ulysses,and of course,
as a lakeshore resident,I'm concerned with
the health of the lake.
MS.GEORGIA:Can I have your name,
please?
MR.ABLE:Yes.My name is John
Able.I signed the sheet at the back.And
I just think it's maybe worthwhile to
reflect on what Ithaca went through in
similar experience several years ago,and I
have to admit I had some initial misgivings
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about lakeshore zoning and so forth,and as
I've learned more about being grandfathered
and so forth,these were alleviated,and at
the same time,I saw when my neighbors were
making some reasonable additions that were
outside of the zone limits,they were able
to make a reasonable appeal to the planning
board there and succeeded in getting that
done.I was also concerned that the
conservation zone in Ithaca was not either
implemented soon enough or enforced well
enough and just on the other side of Route
89 from me,my property,upstream from my
property because I have a creek running
across it,someone came in and timbered all
along,dropped trees into the creeks,took
out the larger trees,but left a lot of
trash,we could see the effects coming down
the hill,this person built without proper
planning for drainage and so forth.So I
think,I'd just like to lend my voice from
a experience as a neighbor to Ulysses that
the lakeshore and conservation zoning is in
my view a very favorable perspective,and
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there certainly has been a lot more
community input here than there was in
Ithaca.So you're complimented for that,
but I would urge you to go ahead and
complete this process as soon as possible.
MS.THOMAS:Any more comments?I
don't want to,if anybody has a little
niggle of wanting to come up here,now's
your opportunity.No?Okay.The time is
now looks like 8:37.Before I close this
hearing,I'm just going to ask again if
there isn't anyone who hasn't already
spoken,if they would like to make a
statement?One more time?Okay.That is
the end.Thank you for attending.We need
a motion to close the public hearing.Do
we have a motion?
MS.ZAHLER:Move to close.
MS.TYLER:Second.
MS.THOMAS:All in favor?
BOARD MEMBERS:Aye.
MS.THOMAS:Opposed?Okay.This
hearing is now concluded.Thank you for
coming.
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C E R T I F I C A T I O N
I hereby certify that the proceedings and
evidence are contained fully and accurately in the
notes taken by me on the above cause and that this
is a correct copy of the same to the best of my
ability.
___________________________________
SHAUNA M.POTTER