HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-06-02 - PB TOWN OF ULYSSES
PLANNING BOARD
06/02/09
APPROVED
Present : Chairperson Ken Zeserson, Board Members : Stan Beames, Rod Hawkes,
Rod Porter, John Wertis, Deputy Supervisor Dick Coogan, Town Board David Kerness .
Excused : Rick Rainey, Rebecca Schneider
Public : Scott Sherwood
Mr. Zeserson called the meeting to order at 7 : 00 pm . He stated this Board had done a lot
of work at the last meeting that he could not attend . They would be reviewing the draft
from that meeting to finalize a document. Then hopefully they can review the final
document and forward to the Town Board at the next meeting. He stated they would be
going through the document editing each section.
The discussion/changes are noted as followed :
16.3 . 1 (a) Allowed uses
Mr. Wertis questioned the intent to be camper phrase.
Mr. Zeserson noted it was to eliminate the permanent look e. g. trailer park, ry park. If it
was designated as campers they had hoped to eliminate this .
Mr. Porter suggested they use intended for transient use. The members agreed.
Mr. Zeserson stated he felt they should add the term at any one time to the limitation for
the snowmobiles. The members agreed
Mr. Zeserson noted Mr. Sherwood had brought another map .
Mr. Sherwood provided the members with a map he had drafted that illustrated the items
they had requested in the previous meeting. He stated this is a hand drawn rough draft, if
the members feel this is sufficient he will take it to Frontenac Designs who will make the
formal copy and put it into a PDF for final presentation.
Mr. Zeserson stated that sounded like it would work and they proceeded to review the
map and draft for final editing.
Mr. Hawkes noted he would like to have no more than 12 feet added as a limit for
Recreational Park Trailers . The members agreed.
16.3 . 1 (b) District Area Boundaries
Mr. Hawkes asked about the descriptions .
Mr. Sherwood stated he does not know where this information came from, the military
lots are not on his map .
Mr. Coogan stated Mariette could do this . She would review and make sure the
descriptions would reflect and the language in the document is on the map . If it is not she
would contact the Mr. Rachun to correct this . She would work with Mr. Rachun to make
sure the he can interpret the map and that it is legally correct.
Mr. Zeserson stated with this in mind they should make a recommendation that this
should be reviewed by the Town Attorney.
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Mr. Coogan stated Mariette would not make the metes and bounds. Mr. Sherwood would
have to do this .
Mr. Sherwood stated he had a survey done when the house was split he could review that
for the boundary lines .
Mr. Zeserson stated that Mr. Sherwood should update the map to reflect the metes and
bounds . .
16.3 . 1 (c) Specifications for campsites
Mr. Hawkes stated he had underlined items that seemed to need attention. He noted the
term vegetation should remain as it is today did not make sense .
The Board agreed, discussion about the changes in climate, types of trees, etc this term
should not be temporal wording. They would like to keep the vegetation in this area
natural . They would like to maintain natural vegetation in this area as a natural buffer.
The members agreed .
Mr. Porter noted number 2 indicates they can park on the Kraft Road side.
Mr. Sherwood stated the campers use this to park next to the pond for fishing.
Mr. Zeserson asked if there were questions on number 3 .
Mr. Sherwood stated he is not clear why this area is here. He reviewed it quite awhile and
there is not a place that this reflects .
Mr. Zeserson asked if they removed it would that be a problem.
Mr. Sherwood stated no . The members agreed to remove this section.
Mr. Zeserson noted that there was a note to have number 5 listed earlier in the
Development District.
Ms. Carlisle Peck stated this was a note Mr. Hawkes had presented at the last meeting.
Mr. Hawkes stated he thought it should be earlier in the specifications .
Mr. Zeserson stated he agreed. The other members agreed and the sections should be
renumbered to reflect this.
Mr. Porter asked if the measurements are accurate .
Mr. Sherwood stated they are not-the NYS code lists at 1250 square feet, Town of
Ulysses code is 1500 . He did not catch this before .
Mr. Zeserson stated they should update this . A discussion led to remove NYS . If they list
1500 they would use the most restrictive, if the state regulations change to 1700 they
would have to comply with this . The members agreed.
A discussion regarding the new sites, it was noted that they have classified the current
sites as legal and conforming, any new sites would have conform with the new zoning.
Mr. Coogan stated that Mr. Rachun advised him if the Board discussed the 425 sites he
stated the Board should recommend the Town Board change the Development District to
208 sites and recalculate the items on 208 which is what the Health Department is
regulating right now . If they did not and Mr. Sherwood or a new owner decided to
expand the Health Department would require engineering and at the same time he would
have to get Planning Board approval .
Mr. Zeserson stated they are getting into the numbers allowed next. Based on 208 this
would allow a maximum of 21 Park Trailers/Cabins in number 7 , they currently allow 43 .
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Mr. Kerness asked if they do this and he wants to expand would he have to establish a
new Development District.
Mr. Coogan stated yes unless the Town approves a law to amend a Development District.
Mr. Porter asked why they could not require Site Plan Review for the sites above 208 , yet
still allow the 425 sites as the amount allowed.
Mr. Sherwood stated it seems as though he has been approved for 425 .
Mr. Coogan stated there would not be a trigger, in order to get more sites he would need
Town Board approval . It would be easier to regulate, they may not know unless they have
to come to the Town for approval .
A discussion reviewing the DOH procedures, Town regulation, Town procedures, etc .
The map which lists the campsites currently onsite which is 198 , DOH has approved up
to 208 . There is a Development District line which restricts where Mr. Sherwood can put
campsites . Mr. Sherwood was not content with restricting him to 208 . The decision to
include Site Plan on the first section of the district requirements . The previous Board
incorporated the 425 allowed sites . It was written in 1991 , everything has changed they
are not 425 tents vs . 425 RV ' s, if it stays the way it is and they expand they may or may
not be involved. The way the Development District reads all new sites would be in
compliance with the current zoning. The current Campgrounds-Seasonal lists the
allowable number of campsites as 10 per acre density. Using this method would allow the
campground to have 830 sites . The Board decided to still use the 425 sites as the
regulation. In addition, they would require Site Plan for any sites/changes/additions
above the 208 regulated by DOH and be in compliance with current zoning . The
members agreed this should provide the review tool . They decided to put number 5 up to
position 1 so it is prevalent when reviewing the district in the future .
Mr. Zeserson noted since they have the number of campsites they have to review the
listed items for maximum allowed. If they base it on the existing sites they have the
whole of 208 vs . 425 . He noted that using this for Recreational Park Trailers they would
want to review the numbers, he asked Mr. Sherwood what number he would like to have
using the method they would limit him to 20 .
Mr. Sherwood stated if he had to put a number it would be 30, if he achieved that in 10
years he would be very happy.
Mr. Zeserson stated using that method they could change the 10% to 15 % which would
allow Mr. Sherwood the opportunity of 30 sites using the existing sites . If he expands
later he would still only be allowed 43 . He recommended they change the wording from
maximum to up to a maximum of 43 sites . He asked if the Board felt they should use the
same formula for camping cabins.
Mr. Sherwood stated he would prefer they keep these the same.
The members agreed to the above changes .
16.3 . 1 (d) Sewage and Garbage Disposal
Mr. Zeserson noted the changes they had made in a previous meeting. He asked if any
members had questions/concerns .
Mr. Sherwood stated he did check and he is currently in compliance with the sewage
regulation as outlined in section 5 at the last meeting.
Mr. Zeserson thanked Mr. Sherwood for informing this Board as this is a item of concern
for Ms Schneider. The members stated they had no further questions/concerns .
16.3. 1 (1) Maintenance
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Mr. Hawkes stated he was not sure of the term along and upgradient, he underlined it for
clarification .
Mr. Beames stated this would be a good specification to have here as it would restrict any
uphill locations along Willow Creek.
The members agreed this would remain.
Mr. Zeserson noted they had addressed the issue of chlorinated water being discharged.
Mr. Sherwood stated regarding this he has to backwash the filters like any pool. This is
not possible it currently goes into a grey water filter system. He is not sure what other
people who have pools but this is how they handle it . He is concerned with this
restriction.
Mr. Porter asked how much water is discharged during this process .
Ms . Carlisle Peck stated this was specified so they would not empty the chlorinated pool
into the ground, stream, pond, etc .
A discussion regarding normal maintenance procedures, amounts discharged, restricting
the water to gallons discharged per 24 hour period. How often does he have to do the
filters . He has two filters which when the pool is busy he has to backwash would
probably not meet a maximum of 100 gallons in a 24 hour period. The pool water is
regulated by the DOH as well as the water. The Board stated they would still like to
regulate and decided the 100 galloons within a 24 hour period as the maximum should
allow Mr. Sherwood to perform maintenance procedures. The Board agreed to this
change.
16.3 . 1 (g) Signs
Mr. Zeserson stated they had not made any changes to this area.
16.3 . 1 (h) Commercial Sales
Mr. Zeserson asked the members to review this area as this was a change to the district.
The members reviewed and noted the map allowing sales is the survey map presented.
Recreational Trailers and Recreational Park Trailers are allowed. The new units are being
allowed to be set up on a site, there are 6 allowed in the sales area however he is limited
to 30 Park Trailers so if they are set up already on a site he is self limiting the amount.
They noted Mr. Sherwood is allowed to act as an agent for used units a person would like
to vacate and leave onsite .
16.3 . 1 (i) Storage
Mr. Zeserson rioted there is a change with the existing sites to be allowed for storage.
They noted the changes to remove the 255 and reflect 60% of existing sites . The offsite
storage would be reflected to the area indicated on the June 2009 map as offsite storage.
16.3 . 1 (j) Buffers
Mr. Zeserson directed the members to review this section.
Mr. Sherwood stated the section pertaining to the dumping station was not valid any
longer as they do not use this dumping station. He noted he has labeled this as hedgerow
# 1 and that would better reflect this area.
The members discussed the buffers and the boundaries. The need to continue to maintain
these buffers to screen from road, neighbors etc . The buffers are currently intact and they
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would like to reinforce these remain. The wording was updated to reflect the current
maps . The members agreed.
The buffers for the stream setbacks for new/changes to sites would be required to
maintain 100 feet, the current stream setbacks for current sites would be 20 feet.
Mr. Sherwood stated he could comply with this . They have enough area to allow natural
growth of this area already.
16.3. 1 (k) Mobile Home
Mr. Hawkes noted the mobile home location had been added to the map and the map date
should be changed.
It is part of the parcel and all of the parcels are included in the development district.
If activity takes place in the house or on the grounds it should be included. They operate
out of the house during the winter. They divided off the house as a separate parcel for tax
purposes. If he has the map redone they should reflect these changes as two parcels in the
event the campground is sold. The map should reflect the actual Development District
with all the parcels .
Mr. Wertis questioned the map dates, should they not have an accurate date as this is a
legal document.
Mr. Beames stated they are waiting for the map to be revised and once they have that date
they will insert the map date.
Mr. Zeserson stated Ms . Carlisle Peck is aware of this . He stated once this document is
finalized they will have a document to review and send to the Town Board with their
recommendations . He asked Mr. Sherwood if he would have a map ready for that
meeting.
Mr. Sherwood stated he should be able to get this done by then. He wanted to make sure
it has all the requirements that this Board wanted. The septic system-tanks and leach
fields are illustrated. He labeled what is water/electric and what is water/electric/sewer he
is not sure if he would be leaving these sites this way. He may get DOH approval to make
the rest of these sites sewer. He is already approved for these but wondered if he should
color code these. He is approved for 208 sites but DOH has to approve the changes to run
his lines to these sites . The members stated that would be acceptable.
Mr. Hawkes asked if there is a document reflecting this information.
Mr. Coogan stated it is on the permits they issue.
Mr. Sherwood stated he met with Mr. Mabee at the DOH and they have a file that has all
of the diagrams sketched out with the number allowed total. He has about 107 sewer
sites .
Mr. Zeserson stated DOH is in charge of this area. The next meeting would be June 16th
Mr. Kerness stated the Town Board has a working meeting on June 25th . He would have
to check on the schedule but hopefully the Town Board could review it that night .
Mr. Sherwood asked the time limit.
Mr. Coogan stated they have to have 10 day legal notice for the Public Hearing. There is
no time limit for zoning changes .
Mr. Porter asked if the Board met on the 25th could they set the Public Hearing for their
next meeting.
Mr. Kerness stated he would check into this for this group .
Mr. Coogan stated this Board made a motion at the last meeting that required
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Mr. Sherwood to go through Site Plan, the need to rescind the resolution passed at the last
meeting. They mandated 5 foot contours and a number of other items .
Mr. Zeserson asked if they should do this at the meeting of June 16th or tonight.
Mr. Coogan stated they need to do it tonight or they cannot accept this map .
Mr. Porter made the MOTION as follows :
The map as presented by Mr. Sherwood on June 2 , 2009 has provided the level of detail
as requested 05/ 19/09 to evaluate the Spruce Row Development District. The previous
Motion requesting Site Plan Review has been rescinded.
Mr. Hawke,; SECONDED the MOTION. The vote was taken-ALL IN FAVOR,
MOTION APPROVED .
Ms . Carlisle Peck presented the minutes from 05/05/09 and 05/ 19/09 .
Mr. Beames noted a clarification from the minutes of 05/ 19/09 . Mr. Zeserson made the
MOTION, Mr. Porter SECONDED the MOTION to approve the minutes .
All in Favor, Minutes of 05/05/09 and 05/ 19/09 APPROVED .
Mr. Zeserson adjourned the meeting at 8 : 25 pm . The next meeting is June 16th, 7 : 00pm.
Respectfully submitted,
Robin Carlisle Peck
Secretary
06/07/09