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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-05-19 - PB TOWN OF ULYSSES PLANNING BOARD 05/19/09 APPROVED 06/02/09 with correction Present : Acting Chairperson Rod Hawkes, Rick Rainey, Stan Beames, Rebecca Schneider, Deputy Supervisor Dick Coogan. Excused : Ken Zeserson, John Wertis Public : Scott Sherwood Mr. Hawkes stated Mr. Zeserson asked him to Chair the meeting. He called the meeting to order at 7 : 02pm . He asked the members if they all had a copy of the latest draft that was sent, Mr. Zeserson also sent copies in the body of an additional email . He stated he had received an email from Mr. Zeserson concerning limiting the number of recreational vehicles (RV ' s) in campground. Ms Schneider read the email sent and Mr. Zeserson was concerned with the trailer park look due to the nature of the RV ' s . Mr. Hawkes asked Mr. Sherwood how many RV ' s are in the campground. Mr. Sherwood stated all the sites are allowed to have RV ' s on them. He generally has about 12 tent campers. Any type of tent camper, tow behind, and fifth wheel are classified as an RV . Mr. Kerness stated he has spoken with Mr. Zeserson and he was concerned with the large units that would resemble a mobile home park. They have restricted park trailers however there is no restriction on RV ' s . The members discussed the repercussions/benefits of restricting the numbers the viability of the business if this restriction was enacted. They appreciated the concern however the feasibility of this would restrict the business from functioning. There are different classes however they are all recreational vehicles . The tent campers and pop up tent campers are becoming a thing of the past ; the self contained units are what are usually purchased as a ready to go . The travel trailer less than 34 feet are what are usually on the road and being used at campgrounds . Ms . Schneider stated she had other fish to fry thus was not concerned with this issue . Mr. Rainey stated he can appreciate that Mr. Zeserson may have been considering the look of the campgrounds at Sheldrake Point or Watkins Glen and can appreciate his concern. The way this park is established this view would not be an issue. The members agreed this was not a feasible option to restrict the number of recreational vehicles . Mr. Hawkes asked Ms . Schneider where they stood regarding the sewage. Ms. Schneider stated she had contacted the Town of Ithaca Planning Department and spoke to Sue Ritter and Darby Kiley. Mr. Zeserson had forwarded her conversation with these individuals to the other members . She stated the planners stated they need to have a site plan. What they have been given is not adequate. Mr. Hawkes asked if the Health Department maps would be adequate. Planning Board 2 05/ 19/2009 Ms. Schneider stated that they would require more than that. A complete Site Plan Map would have to be provided by Mr. Sherwood. It is an onerous task however with a rezoning this is a must have item. She discussed the Town Board as Lead Agency and Ms. Ritter was very adamant the DOH is not appropriate to take the lead; they are not assigning a permit. They could be a collaborative agency but the Town Board would be the lead and planning board would be doing the SEQR. This town has stream side protection she explained to Ms. Ritter that they were grandfathering the current sites. Ms . Ritter stated this is a Board decision however since they have the requirements in place they should consider this action. Mr. Hawkes asked Mr. Sherwood if he had received this email . Mr. Sherwood stated he had not . Mr. Beanies stated he should have been sent a copy. Ms Carlisle Peck stated she had asked Mr. Zeserson if Mr. Sherwood should be sent a copy of the recommendation and he stated he did not see any reason for this . Ms . Schneider stated she had the email and read it to the members as follows : Ken : just had a very useful discussion with Sue Ritter and Darby Kiley at the Ithaca Planning Department to get some clarification regarding the environmental issues that were raised at the last planning board meeting about the Spruce Row Campground permit. They responded : a) we really don't have sufficient information to evaluate the issue of sewage management on the site given the current site plan . They recommend that we request as part of SEQR an updated, professionally drafted site plan map that shows the actual locations of all the underground sewage holding tanks, as well as the septic leach fields for the two septic systems, and the public pump-out station and locations of all 200 existing sites. These should be drawn relative to the topographic contours, stream location and other relevant natural features so that an adequate and accurate assessment can be made concerning their potential for impacting the groundwater and stream . Given the high density of people that occupy the site each summer currently (about 800 people) and the potential for twice that, the town planning board should treat the issues of environmental impacts seriously. b) The issue of who is taking lead on the SEQR review was brought up given this is technically a rezoning . They believe that our Town Board is the appropriate lead given that the town is responsible for allowing him to sell the vehicles. They agree that DOH should be brought in as a coordinating partner but DOH should not be taking the lead since he is not asking for any permit from them . Sue Ritter encouraged that we get the town lawyer Marlette engaged in this discussion about who should be the lead agency and also about the existing issues of sites directly adjacent to the stream given our zoning ordinance. Hope this helps. Feel free to distribute bec She stated she was getting perspective for this board ' s use. Mr. Hawkes asked for discussion. Ms Schneider stated the issue is what does this Board want to do about it . She stated Mr. Zeserson had sent an additional email and stated he was in favor of requiring this . Mr. Hawkes stated they should take a vote, he asked all the members that were in favor of requiring Mr. Sherwood submit a site plan. Mr. Beames commented or current maps . The members voted unanimously. Ms. Carlisle Peck clarified that a site plan or current map was acceptable. Ms . Schneider stated NO, he had to have all of the information as required by Site Plan. They get them all the time, topographic maps, etc . Mr. Coogan stated as a review board DOH regulates the systems . Ms Carlisle Peck asked if Ms Schneider had called DOH for the regulations as she stated she would in the previous meeting. Yn Planning Board 3 05/ 19/2009 Ms Schneider stated no she had forgotten that she said she would do that, she called the Planning Department instead but would contact the Health Department. Mr. Coogan stated DOH is regulating this so they will have some kind of map on file. At times it was as simple as a sketch on a napkin. It should show where the leach fields and tanks are as well as the capacity. Ms Schneider stated if they have this information that would be a good basis but they want to make sure the other features are on the map . Mr. Coogan stated it may just be a rough sketch here is the tank, here are the leach fields . What he is hearing is what they want is very specific the site plan tends not to be . Ms Schneider stated they could see what it is . It would be nice if they are specific to save time and money however they should be looking at specifics . Mr. Hawkes stated with a project like this development district are there areas that specify what are required. Mr. Coogan stated it is in the zoning, however the sewage system is usually not specific on the site plan map . The requirement has always been that DOH is contacted for permits . Ms Schneider stated they have to be concerned as this is in the MS4 District . Mr. Coogan stated this is not in the MS4 District . Mr. Beames noted page 13 outlines the Site Plan requirements . It does state water and sewage systems outlined on the Site Plan. Ms Schneider stated if what DOH has on file is not adequate they would need the additional information. Mr. Coogan asked if the members are now requiring Mr. Sherwood to submit the Site Plan requirements . If as a Board they continue to request information on a monthly basis this project could be dragged out. This Board needs to make a decision to inform the applicant of what they will need and accept. Mr. Sherwood stated at the last meeting this Board stated this process was all but completed. The meeting tonight was to just dot the I ' s and cross the T ' s per a conversation with Mr. Zeserson earlier today. He stated after hearing this information it is clear that the members of this Board are not communicating. He stated this information should have been presented to him in March not after what he concluded to be the final step . Ms Schneider stated this has been a concern for her all along, which is why she wanted to get an outside opinion. She does not care about the noise or light standards this are not her purview and she is reviewing the environmental impacts seriously. They do not have a map indicating the impact of a 1000 people . Mr. Coogan stated the request from the Town Board was to review the use of commercial sales. Ms Schneider stated they could make a recommendation to the Town Board they review this for the septic/environmental issues . But it would probably come back to us to do the review. Mr. Kerness noted the planning board had done the SEQR for a prior project and the Town Board read the SEQR at the hearing but it was done by the Planning Board. The Town Board has to regurgitate the entire document eventually. Planning Board 4 05/ 19/2009 Mr. Hawkes stated the Town Board should be lead agency the Planning Board would review and submit to the Town Board with their recommendations . Mr. Coogan stated the only action this Board would be reviewing is the commercial sales . Ms Schneider stated she understood this however, Mr. Rachun had stated they should make sure they dot their I ' s and cross their T ' s with this project. This would be a zoning change and this was a contentious issue back in 1991 . They did not want any problem with people stating the project was not reviewed. Mr. Hawkes stated they need to decide what they want Mr. Sherwood to do . He noted he was referencing section 3 .4 .4 (page 13) of the zoning law. Mr. Kerness asked Mr. Sherwood if he understands what they need. He reviewed the listed items in the zoning and asked if there is a reasonable expectation of what he has available to him currently. Mr. Sherwood stated he understands what Ms Schneider wants related to the sewer and water but he does not know about the other items they have discussed. DOH issues a permit every year and he has to be in compliance with their regulations. Ms Schneider stated as a first look there are items that are not relevant but they need the topography. Mr. Hawkes stated for the purpose of Site Plan they are going to ask Mr. Sherwood to do the sections 3 .4 . 4 #2 a to j and #2 Site Topography. Ms Schneider stated she is not concerned about lights and sound however if they feel it maybe an issue this is up to them. She is concerned about the stormwater. Mr. Hawkes stated he sees her point. The lighting would not be on the map they currently have on file. He stated he does have concerns with the hedgerows wording indicated in the zoning, they do not have a map that indicates the hedgerows . He asked for other comments/questions . Mr. Rainey stated he feels for Mr. Sherwood however as they get into this project they are concerned of contentious issues thus the Site Plan process does have to be done . Being new to the Board it seems there is a delay but the public could make a bigger problem/delay later. Ms Schneider stated in the past it has been contentious, and as the Planning Board this is their job . It may be advisable to ask Mr. Rachun what the process should be. Especially concerning the other standards, lighting, noise etc . Mr. Hawkes stated they would like to ask Mr. Sherwood to prepare the specific items. Mr. Beames asked if they could ask Mr. Sherwood for specific items . Mr. Coogan stated the word "shall" requires submission of that item, they cannot pick and choose . Mr. Hawkes stated with that understood they would require Section 3 .4 .4 1 to 4 if applicable and #2 Topography. Mr. Rainey asked regarding the traffic pattern with 425 sites how would they handle the traffic . Mr. Coogan stated it has already been considered. Ms Schneider stated this may all be mute if the maps that DOH have are sufficient. Planning Board 5 05/ 19/2009 Mr. Beames stated for the best interest of the community they need to require this process . Mr. Sherwood stated they may have a map of each system and the map for that year drawn in with that system . It usually has the elevation drops, lines etc . Mr. Kerness asked when the next meeting would be. Ms Carlisle Peck stated the next meeting is June 2"a Ms Schneider stated she would be leaving for China and would not be here for the June 2nd meeting. Mr. Sherwood stated they are in full swing and he cannot have this done in two weeks . The DOH would have maps that may satisfy Ms Schneider but the not the rest of the requirements . Mr. Rainey the first meeting he came to because it was a change and there is no procedure it was a complete process from A to Z. It was overlooked and they apologize but they need to go forward. Ms Schneider stated they are trying to do their job but worry about what they are putting on him. They have groups that come in and they require stormwater plans . Ms Carlisle Peck stated they had the Site Plan and these would be grandfathered in. Ms Schneider stated she understands that however now they are reading the zoning and it does require Site Plan. Mr. Kerness stated the Town Board requested the Planning Board review the existing development district with a change of the commercial sales area. It was sent to them as a resolution that stated "the existing use would not be subject to new zoning laws". They have the existing septic systems etc . which is the correct thing to do, but what would they do with that. The direction they gave was the current site would not be subject to new zoning, the Draft stated the new zones would be required to have 100 foot setbacks . Ms Schneider stated if they want to make a resolution and vote she would probably abstain or vote no but that she feels it is an inadequate evaluation given the new zoning and their goals. Mr. Hawkes asked since the Town Board has requested they review this under that stipulation does that mean they should not request additional information. Mr. Kerness stated they cannot stick their head in the sand, but follow the directive. Mr. Hawkes made the suggestion that they respect the directive of the Town Board, they make the changes to the district allow the sales with restrictions . He would suggest they vote but also express the Planning Board ' s concern the Town Board review the plan due to septic system potentially being too close to the stream . Mr. Rainey stated should they include a recommendation a current site plan review be done and on record. Ms Carlisle Peck stated this document would go to Mariette who would review and edit the metes and bounds with the current map . Ms Schneider stated she would not review for Site Plan. Mr. Coogan stated the Town Board is not doing Site Plan, they are doing zoning change. Mariette would review and define the boundaries of the change in zoning. Their resolution could be as simple as everything will stay the same and park trailers would be allowed and sales would be allowed, all items on the map stay the same. Planning Board 6 05/ 19/2009 Mr. Kerness asked if the DRAFT included the terminology allowing existing sites to remain. Ms Carlisle Peck indicated in the DRAFT the compliance of new sites to meet the Seasonal Campgrounds which require 100 foot setbacks . Mr. Hawkes stated before they take a vote he has wording he would like to clarify. 16 . 3 . 1 Storage he would like specified. Mr. Sherwood stated it is to the right behind the office and along the hedgerow. Mr. Hawkes stated they should include this as the hedgerow that runs between the pole barn and the office/store. He noted the location of the mobile home was also confusing. Mr. Sherwood indicated on the map where the mobile home is . Mr. Beames stated he would like to propose the recommendation but would like to require an updated Site Plan on file at some point . Ms Schneider stated she seconded the MOTION, Mr. Rainey stated there are two issues, the original which he would vote for to allow the commercial sales, also the recommendation to require the Site Plan. He would like to propose they require the Site Plan be done. Mr. Sherwood asked if he could update the map they currently have on file . It was drafted in 1962 and updated 1991 . He noted the information from the map to try to research. He stated they are having the property surveyed in January. The purchase was a two part process, the corporation was done first then the property followed. He realized a survey would not be done as there are no banks involved. Mr. Hawkes noted the map indicated it was digitized and had the contour lines on the map per USGS . He stated he would like to get something resolved. Mr. Coogan stated this Board needs to decide what they are going to accept. Their requirement would indicate to Mr. Sherwood what is acceptable. Mr. Beames/Rainey reviewed the zoning which indicates Mr. Rachun should review the Site Plan for completion. Ms. Schneider stated this Board should talk to Mr. Rachun regarding this as well to determine this . Mr. Sherwood has done a good, job do they require a survey, sketch etc . Mr. Coogan stated what usually happens with Site Plan is Mr. Rachun, Mr. Zeserson, the applicant and Mr. Coogan will review the information submitted. When Mr. Rachun and Mr. Zeserson agree it is complete it will go to the Planning Board. Since this came in as a resolution from the Town Board it was not treated as a Site Plan. Mr. Hawkes asked if they as a Planning Board could they make the recommendation as it is now and Mr. Sherwood supply the detailed site plan at a later time. Mr. Coogan stated the Town Board would review and if it is passed then there is no ( ' enforcement to have the map done at a dater date. The danger is they have not asked anyone else to update the Site Plan. Mr. Hawkes stated he is still concerned in that the district wording reflects items that are not on this map . Mr. Rainey asked if someone asked to see the map how would they explain that there is not a map . . er. . ;• , ; L. Planning Board 7 05/ 19/2009 Ms Schneider agreed this was a very important point. Mr. Coogan stated Mariette would do this if requested when reviewing the document. Ms Carlisle Peck stated they request Mariette review the map on file, submit the document to her to review for updated metes and bounds . This would be her responsibility to clarify per the map on file. Mr. Coogan stated yes she would do this. Mr. Kerness stated he was playing devil ' s advocate as a member of the public he asked why site plan was not done. They are concerned about public who may or may not show up in favor or against . Ms Schneider stated as the Board they should be doing their job . Ms Carlisle Peck stated they have done what they were asked. They reviewed for commercial sales . They could make the recommendation to the Town Board to review for septic as well . Mr. Hawkes asked where they were at related to the map . Mr. Coogan stated they had passed a resolution approved by all members to require Mr. Sherwood submit a Site map . This cannot move until the map is submitted. They can acknowledge the specific items as being not applicable, e. g. new construction. Mr. Rainey asked how long that process would take. Mr. Sherwood stated if he could sit right down and do it a couple days. He needs to know what the Board considers acceptable in terms of who draws it etc . Mr. Beames stated they had accepted hand drawn sketches. Mr. Hawkes stated he would call Mr. Rachun to determine the expectations and what they would accept for a map . Ms Schneider asked if they should meet as a group . Mr. Hawkes stated they have to publicize a meeting, if less than 3 they could meet with Mr. Rachun without publishing it. Mr. Kerness stated he thought it would be a good idea to meet there are minimums to be obtained. Ms Carlisle Peck asked if the Town could obtain copies of what DOH has on file for Spruce Row. Mr. Coogan stated he was not sure he would have to check into this . Ms Schneider said if they could meet before Sunday morning she would be happy to do it. She noted a closed sign on the door for Friday. Mr. Coogan stated it maybe one of the other offices but he would be there. Mr. Hawkes stated he would call Mr. Zeserson and Mr. Rachun to set a meeting this week. Ms Schneider is interested, Mr. Zeserson would he asked Mr. Beames and Mr. Rainey if they would be interested . He was going to suggest 8 : 00 am . Ms Schneider stated that would work for her schedule. Mr. Rainey stated he could meet with the group . Mr. Hawkes stated since they have voted and resolved to request a Site Plan from Planning Board 8 05/ 19/2009 Sherwood he would also suggest they have the wording amended to the current map . The current map on file is 1991 . Mr. Coogan stated the request for Mr. Rachun should be if Mr. Sherwood updates the October 1991 map would that be sufficient. Ms Carlisle Peck asked what the decision for wording on the mobile home was. Mr. Beames asked if they could also put that on the map and indicate that in the wording. Mr. Hawkes stated it sounded like they really could not go forward until they receive a determination on the map and how they would proceed once that determination is made . Ms Schneider clarified the resolution is to have a site plan map prepared and once Mr. Rachun indicates what is necessary they would review that. Mr. Hawkes stated that was the process . Ms Schneider stated she would not be in attendance at the next meeting but would appreciate it all of the information as requested is reviewed. Mr. Sherwood stated if he has to hire someone to redraw the map it would not be possible within two weeks . Mr. Hawkes stated one recommendation the Planning Board should make to the Town Board is to change zoning to allow development changes . Ms Carlisle Peck stated this was done after the Cone project as well as the Mini Gulf project. Mr. Rainey stated they are doing due diligence before this goes to public hearing. Mr. Coogan stated that is true however they have to treat all applicants the same. They cannot ask this of one and give the next one a free pass . Mr. Rainey stated he is looking at this from a newbie ' s eyes. Mr. Hawkes stated he has concerns regarding a map that does not match the document. Ms Carlisle Peck stated they needed to review the minutes of 05/05/09 . Ms Schneider stated she had not read the minutes thus would have to abstain. Mr. Hawkes adjourned the meeting at 8 : 40 pm. Respectfully submitted, Robin Carlisle Peck Secretary