HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-02-05 - PH Town of Ulysses
2009 Draft Comprehensive Plan
Public Hearing
February 5, 2009, 7 : 00 P.M.
Verbatim Transcription
Time called to order : 6 : 58 p. m.
Sue Poelvoorde
Well it is close enough, I think I' ll get started. I ' ve got a statement I want to read and so, that
will make sure we get enough time for folks to make a statement, although a lot of you folks did
not mark yes to make a statement you can change your mind along the way and I will call on you
through the process .
Good evening. My name is Sue Poelvoorde. I am the Chair of the Town of Ulysses
Comprehensive Plan Update Committee and I will be presiding over the public hearing this
evening. The hearing is being conducted in accordance with Town Law, Article 16, Section
272A, Subsection 6 (b) which requires that the Committee, charged by the Town Board to revise
a Comprehensive Plan, allow full opportunity for public comment on the Town of Ulysses ' Draft
I 2009 Comprehensive Plan before the Committee passes it on to the Town Board with a
recommendation to adopt the plan .
As the hearing officer, I am responsible to make sure that everyone who wishes to do so will be
given an opportunity to submit an oral or written statement for the record. In accordance with
this, it may be necessary to limit the time for comments so that everyone has an opportunity to
speak. Sign-in cards were available at the door. If you did not sign in yet, please do so . I will use
the cards to call on persons wishing to provide a statement. The cards were numbered
sequentially and distributed in that order. I will call speakers forward in accordance with the
numbering system . We will also use the cards to record attendance at this hearing.
I would like to stress that this is a public hearing, a time to take comments on the plan. It is not a
session for questions and answers . If you have a question, please ask me or one of the Committee
members after the close of the hearing session. Since most of our time will be spent listening, I
ask that all of us recognize and respect the statements and positions of others . Please respect
other' s viewpoints and avoid personalizing your comments . The Committee is very interested in
comments on the accuracy of the information in the Plan.
If you have a written statement, please submit it to me. Also, if you feel your statement may go
beyond the allotted time, I would appreciate it if you could summarize the items of most
importance to you, especially if you are also submitting a written statement.
If anyone wishes to comment on the plan between now and the end of the comment period on
February 16, 2009, you may submit a written statement to my attention either my mailing or
dropping off your comments here at Town Hall or at the e-mail address listed on the hearing
notice mailing you received and also on the posters to my right and to my left.
Comments received this evening and up to the close of the comment period on February 16`h
(close of business) will be reviewed and considered by the Committee on February 19`h Any
changes or additions to the plan coming out of this comment period will be made to the
document prior to submission to the Town Board.
Once the Town Board, Roxanne noted to me, and I ' ll introduce our members here shortly but,
that a couple folks have been asking about the process . I mentioned the Town Law. Town Law
does say that if the Town Board requests that a special committee prepare a comprehensive plan
or prepare an update that public hearings be held to give folks an opportunity to comment on it.
Once this committee is done with our task of revising the comprehensive plan, we will be
passing it along to the Town Board. Once the Town Board gets it, they will consider it and
review it and they too will hold a public hearing. So there is another opportunity to take a look at
this plan and make comments on it before it is adopted by the Town Board.
Is that answering the questions that you received, Roxanne? Okay.
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02/05/2009
Roxanne Marino
Yes . So, the document that ' s here now may not be the document exactly that is submitted to the
Town Board. So there will be another document and notice of a public hearing. A lot of people
were asking well why weren ' t there a lot more copies printed. We didn' t print a lot partly
because this really isn' t the final, we hope it ' s the near final, but it is not the final document
submitted to the Town Board for consideration for their public hearing.
Sue Poelvoorde
So again, as Roxanne said, we did not print a lot of copies . We do have it available on the Web .
If you would like a printed copy, I did write a gentleman' s name down tonight and we will get
that to you, if you do want a printed copy please see us after the hearing and we ' ll try to get a
copy made as soon as possible. It might not be all color, but a lot of it might be black and white
just to save on the expense of that.
Before I get started on the main purpose of the meeting tonight, I ' d like to start off first by
making a, at least, to start off I need to note an error on the printing of the Future Land Use Plan,
this map that you see up here, in the document on page 37 . As you noted we have a lot of
different green colors . In the document there is an area to the east of the Village of Trumansburg
that ' s the avocado green area, I ' m going to call it, and that should be light green the Agriculture
Priority Area color. That ' s what it was in the plan, and unfortunately, I think the computer got
confused with all of the green colors that we have on our map and somehow that got switched.
So , that is an error and that will be corrected before we forward it on to the Town Board.
David Tyler
But the map over here, is correct .
Sue Poelvoorde
These are correct. These are correct. This is the way, yes, thank you, that ' s the area in the plan,
it' s the, what I ' :m calling avocado green, the very kind of bright green area, so that is one error
that occurred.
The Town' s first comprehensive plan was prepared over several years in the 1990s, with
adoption by the Town Board in 1999 . As the first plan of its type for the Town, it was
acknowledged by the Town Board that a review of the plan should occur in 5 years after
adoption. It was anticipated that time that the Zoning Law would be updated and would have
been field tested by this time to determine what, if any, issues or areas of land use planning that
required further consideration or refinement that is done in a comprehensive plan. We are ten
years past that point, but we ' re getting there .
In 2006 , the Town Board passed a resolution creating the Town of Ulysses Comprehensive Plan
Update Committee and appointed members to serve following a meeting that sought interested
citizens to participate on the committee. And at this time I would like to recognize the
Committee members in attendance here tonight. We have Bob Weatherby, John Wertis, Dave
Tyler, Rod Hawkes, Liz Thomas, Liz is also a Town Board member, Roxanne Marino and Bob
Brown. And, then we also have Deirdre . Deirdre Cunningham is also on our committee, she is
out there in the audience .
I ' d also like to recognize, I think Dave Kerness is still here. Is he still here? Is he out in the hall?
Okay. There he is . Thank you, Dave. Dave Kerness is one of our Town Board members and he is
here tonight. I didn' t see anyone else I need to recognize at this time .
Our Committee hit the ground running shortly after the Town Board ' s charge was official and
between August 2006 to today we have worked hard with the consultants from Bergmann
Associates from Rochester to prepare the 2009 Draft Comprehensive Plan.
The updated plan, directed by community input through a Town-wide survey conducted in 2007
and public information gathering meetings and workshops in 2008 , includes a vision, policy
areas with objectives and action strategies to accomplish the objectives and a Future Land Use
Plan to guide land-based development patterns . In addition to land-use direction, the plan also
includes recommendations for initiating new or supporting existing social and cultural programs
that make our community strong and vibrant .
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While a large number of the action strategies will be accomplished through Town government
action, many others will, and are recommended to be, accomplished by residents of the Town
coming together on special committees . There is much to be done, and the Committee hopes that
residents of the Town will use the plan as a call to action.
The 2009 plan, the 2009 update builds upon the 1999 version more strongly recognizing the
unique features of the Town. It is valued, one its location along the largest Finger Lakes through
the Lakeshore, Conservation, Natural Areas/Parkland and Environmental Protection Areas zones .
Its valued historical assets, the cultural heritage and the hamlet of Jacksonville through the
Agricultural Priority and Mixed Use Hamlet Center areas . The need to provide a variety of
housing options through the Village Residential and Mixed Use Hamlet Center areas, and
the need to work to support, maintain and supplement economic diversity through the Office and
Technology Mixed-Use, Transitional Commercial areas .
Like, the 1999 version, this plan continues to encourage, in stronger terms , nodal development,
strengthening the existing areas of Jacksonville and Trumansburg, where making use of the
infrastructure in place saves municipal financial resources and encourages sustaining our
agricultural base .
As with any topic or issue, there are many different points of view and ways to approach issues.
The Committee, with Bergmann' s assistance, did its best to find consensus and prepare a plan
that preserves and protects the cherished character of the Town, an opinion that was expressed
nearly unanimously throughout the information gathering and input opportunities .
With that said, I will now start the formal portion of this evenings meeting. Let ' s see, we ' ve got
some more folks signed in.
Dave Tyler
Do you want to officially open the public hearing?
Sue Poelvoorde
Yes, we officially open the public hearing.
Dave Tyler
Was there a public notice?
Sue Poelvoorde
Yes there was.
Dave Tyler
Do you want to read it?
Sue Poelvoorde
Yes. Marsha, do you have a public notice?
Marsha Georgia
No, I 'm sorry I don ' t have one with me.
Audience attendant offers a copy of the mailing notice.
Sue Poelvoorde
No, the legal notice that was in the paper. We ' ll make sure that gets included in the record.
Dave Tyler
I ' m happy to see a lot of you here attended those public information sessions we had in the past
year and carried through to come here tonight .
Roxanne Marino
Sue, we might just add also, that there are a couple other members of the committee who
couldn 't attend tonight . Heather Filiberto is a member of the committee; as is Sue Ritter. Just in
case if you may know them and want to give them input .
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Peter Houghton
Is anyone from Bergmann here tonight?
Sue Poelvoorde
No, they are not here tonight. They will be attending the public hearing with the Town Board.
The comprehensive plan is a Town plan, it ' s the committee ' s plan. We did have assistance with
Bergmann, but it is our plan.
Sue Poelvoorde
Did someone go get that (legal notice) ? So, I can read that into the record.
Notice of Public Hearing
Town of Ulysses
Draft 2009 Comprehensive Plan
Date of Notice : January 22, 2009
The Town of Ulysses Comprehensive Plan Update Committee, working with Bergmann
Associates, Inc . , has completed the Draft 2009 Comprehensive Plan for the Town of Ulysses .
The draft plan, which is an update of the1999 Comprehensive Plan, will be the subject of an
informational workshop and public hearing on February 5, 2009 , in the Town of Ulysses Town
Hall, 10 Elm Street, Trumansburg, New York. The workshop will run from 6 : 00 p .m . to 6 :45
p .m. followed by the public hearing beginning at 7 : 00 p .m. The purpose of the workshop is to
offer an opportunity to become more familiar with the Draft 2009 Comprehensive Plan.
Persons may provide comments at the hearing or in writing no later than the end of the
comment period on February 16, 2009. All written comments should be forwarded to the
following contact or to : Ulyssescp2008 @gmail . com .
Contact Person :
Sue A. Poelvoorde
Chair
Comprehensive Plan Update Committee
Town of Ulysses
10 Elm Street
Trumansburg, New York 14886
Availability of Draft Plan : The Draft 2009 Comprehensive Plan is available for review on the
Town of Ulysses website, www.ulysses .ny .us . Copies of the Draft Plan are available for review
at the following locations :
Town of Ulysses, Town Hall, Trumansburg
Village of Trumansburg, Village Hall, Trumansburg
Ulysses Philomathic Library, Trumansburg
Peter Houghton
When was that published?
Marsha Georgia
It ' s not printed on here, but I can get that for you.
Sue Poelvoorde
It should have been January 22 , 2009 .
Marsha Georgia
It ' s around that date .
Sue PoelvoordeOkay. Alright. When you make your statement, we ' ve put up a microphone
here. It' s much easier for Marsha to pick up your comments if you would please come up to the
microphone to make your statement.
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I have a question mark for Janet Hawkes . Would you like to . . . .
Janet Hawkes
No .
Sue Poelvoorde
I have a question mark for Jackie Merwin. Jackie did you want to make a comment?
Jackie Merwin
I don ' t think so .
Sue Poelvoorde
We have a lot of shy people tonight. Diane Hillman. You have a maybe. Would you like to make
a comment?
Diane Hillman
No , I don 't think so .
Sue Poelvoorde
A lot of shy people here tonight. Yeah. Well, we ' ll have time to talk, time to chat. Stan
Koskinen. Did you? Can you . . . .
Stan Koskinen
Yeah. I don ' t walk too well . You ' ll have to bring the microphone to me. I can talk loud enough
so you can hear me without it.
Sue Poelvoorde
We ' ll try to get the microphone over to you, or close enough.
We ' ll start out with 5 minutes, Stan. Do you have more than that?
Stan Koskinen
How long do you want me to talk?
Sue Poelvoorde
Well, Stan, do you really want to know? No, we ' ll give you 5 minutes .
Stan Koskinen
I ' ve been a resident of this town since 1930 . I was a little kid when I came here. But anyway,
I ' m considered a large land owner. And, the purpose of this meeting is to preserve farm land.
Alright, why is there just two farmers in the whole dang room? I came up the hard way. I saved
my money. Every piece of land that my wife and I had planned to own, we paid, we bought it.
We didn ' t inherit it. And, I don ' t really want my land to be preserved for farm land. Because I
can ' t retire on it. How would you like to have a 5 , 000-cow dairy farm within three miles of your
place? You wouldn ' t like that. You can ask me questions if you want. I 'm not smart enough to
speak. I ' ll state my opinion.
Sue Poelvoorde
This is a public hearing. We 're just here to listen to you, this is not a dialogue back and forth.
Stan Koskinen
Had enough yet?
Sue Poelvoorde
If you are done Stan, that ' s fine . If you have something else you would like to tell us that ' s fine.
Stan Koskinen
Most of the people in this room have had a good job some place and they get their retirement and
insurance paid . My land, our land is our retirement and we can not sell it for agricultural
purposes because the local farmers won ' t pay enough for it because they know how tough it is to
make payments on land. Agricultural thing is in recession just like anything else. I ' ve been
through one . I grew up as a little kid and this is, you haven 't seen anything yet. Wait until you
ti
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see how this one is going to end up . All I know is what I read in the papers, and I don ' t believe
any of it. I guess I said enough.
•
Sue Poelvoorde
Thank you Stan.
Don Ellis you are next. So , you might just as well take that microphone and continue.
Don Ellis
Well, I worked in the area of land use planning for a while, and saw quite a few land use plans
for small municipalities, and I' ve got to say congratulations to all of you. This is really an
exceptional job . I couldn ' t endorse it more. Very, very well done. I am particularly supportive of
the mention and inclusion of area allocation as a method for managing subdivision. I hope in the
future that zoning actions and zoning ordinance revisions can follow on from that little piece that
is in the plan at this point.
If there is one area that I wish there was more attention given to, which has received really none
at all and very typically doesn' t in plans of this type so I ' m not criticizing anyone very much for
it, is governance . We can plan our governance as well as our land subdivision and many other
kinds of things ; it is really pretty well unaddressed. It ' s kind of a critical' time for small
municipality governance . Right here in our own county there is a growing interest in returning to
the old form of board of supervisors as opposed to legislature, which we have now. I would see
that as a move away from a democratic and otherwise more efficient form of government than
we currently experience . On a State level, home rule is being attacked extensively; and given the
current economic situation the opportunity for those who would reduce home rule in New York
State is larger than it has been in decades . Home rule is the form of governance where we have
all these little municipalities . As confusing as they are, as difficult as it is to keep track of them
when you live in them sometimes . Do you live in the town? Do you live in the village? Do you
live in both? These kinds of things go around, people are plenty confused. But, I think in tough
economic times what we 're going to see is a good deal of clamor for more efficiency in
government and that will be addressed at reducing home rule, combining municipalities,
combining this and so forth. If we measure efficiency in terms of dollars per something rather
than in influence per citizen than the argument in hard economic times is a rough argument. But,
I think this plan that we have before us right now is an excellent example of the second; that
citizens have come together and the influence per citizen in the creation of this plan is really
exceptional . And that ' s the kind of efficiency that I would support.
Sue Poelvoorde
Thank you Don.
Next person wishing to speak is Greg Reynolds . Greg Scott Reynolds .
Greg Scott Reynolds
Stan, right, I really appreciate what you had to say. I can ' t tell you.
Stan Koskinen
I don' t know who you are, but you ' re an alright guy.
Greg Scott Reynolds
My grandmother would be proud of you because she used to sit on the planning board.
Stan Koskinen
I ' ve been on that before.
Sue Poelvoorde
Okay, you need to do your comment to the board.
Greg Scott Reynolds
I ' m just making my comments, because I agree with what he had to say. Those are my
comments . She helped keep out mobile homes, which I think is a good thing. But, to affect
people like you, Stan, is a bad thing. And, in these times we want to pass things on to our kids
too .
Stan Koskinen
Well, the planning board has chased three of my kids away from here . There ' s only one left.
t
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Greg Scott Reynolds
Yup , and I understand that too . That ' s important to me as part of my comments . But, I see this,
there are some errors here folks and you ' ve done a good job and you ' ve worked really hard and I
can ' t believe the amount of time you volunteered to do it away from your families . Family is
very important to me .
We ' ve been paying on this farm of 80 acres since 1931 and even before that if you include my
uncles ' farms at 250 combined acres in the family representing 40 people . And to see it turned
into Environmental Protection Area and Conservation Area, 100 percent of it, just tears me apart.
How do I sell it when I lose my job? How do I sell off part of it? AAM doesn ' t really help me;
not at all . It ' s got to be contiguous? But, it can' t be 100 percent contiguous . It ' s has to be
stacked. Can ' t be along the road frontage, you have to have so much set aside. Then we ' ve got
creeks that run for half a month out of twelve. They' re waterways . Right? Then we have our tax
dollars going toward unique natural areas studies . Did those people come on my farm, trespass?
And, then we have highly erodible land above 89, but not below 89? And then we have
environmental protection area. It looks arbitrary. And I know you guys followed documents from
other groups, so I 'm not aiming this at anybody, alright? And, I' m glad I ' m here now for the
process for I hadn ' t been in the past because I chose to raise my kids here. Brought them in the
back.
I 'm trying to honor my roots and start a farm. This makes the year I ' ve had even tougher. It ' s
been horrible, but it just doesn ' t feel good. It doesn' t say that my farm is going to be marketable
if I need and when I need or if I will even sell part of it .
And, my farm surrounds the Black Diamond Trail . I ' ve had a lot of concerns with that and I ' ve
wrote publicly to Albany about that. And I did that on a Wednesday and on a Thursday I
received comments back and I agreed to meet someone on a Saturday morning. That Saturday
morning my whole buffalo herd was let out, and that person never showed up , never left a
business card, never left a note at my door step . What am I to think about that? My comments
become public and something bad happens to me . I was scared to be here, wasn ' t I Bob?
Concerned about what ' s going to happen next. You know, I think the Black Diamond Trail is
probably a really good thing and overall and I wrote that I ' m in support of it. But, to protect it
versus my 40 members of the family and 250 acres and generations of tax paying people that
paid on rural residential, not agriculture. That ' s a lot of tax dollars to pump into something that
really is going to be used by a few. And I 'm not just talking about the Black Diamond Trail cuz
nobody' s going to use my land but for trespassing. So, as a farmer I ' m going to have to put on
some complementary agricultural stuff and I 'm going to have to use the New York State Ag and
Markets Law to my fullest advantage to protect myself from EPA designation and Conservation
Area designation. And I ' m very passionate about this . I think it ' s, you know it goes down to our
bill of rights and what you should be able to with your own property and the use of your own
property to provide for you family. And, I want to see some complementary development to go
on, because we need jobs in this community. And, I need to be able to get a good start as a
farmer. So I can not be run out like the rest of them. Right? And, this doesn ' t do it in my opinion
and if I ' m wrong pull me aside and tell me so . I have open ears, I ' ll listen . You know, I just feel
it, it just doesn ' t look good. I read through all 202 pages . That ' s what the pdf said anyways, and I
tried to get a copy and I was refused one. So, I went and printed it myself at my own cost and I
downloaded it at my own cost. But, I 'm just trying to do the best I can. I ' m respectful of my
neighbors. To the north of me is my uncle, to the west of me is my other uncle . And then I have
89, which runs 100s of garbage trucks down it every day. So, that Cayuga Scenic Byway stuff
when you are listening to a semi a half a mile away right on by with garbage flying out on the
return trip or there, they don ' t always put tarps on. Doesn ' t call it the Scenic Byway to me. Okay.
I call it the garbage highway, because I have to pick up after it. And now I ' m hoping that I don ' t
have to pick up something in the middle of my property either, where trash is .
And, I hoping that we kinda get smart on tax payer dollars as you said and start consolidating
municipalities as was mentioned in here and the State has grants for that. Because Trumansburg,
Ulysses, Town of Ithaca, Ithaca, Tompkins County there is just too much government right now.
And we need to consolidate it. You know I watch one small plow go down my road pouring salt.
Then I watch a bigger plow go down the road and put that salt in the same ditch, which ends up
in Cayuga Lake. And I ' m wondering are we really looking after the watershed, or are we looking
after trail . Okay? It just doesn ' t make sense . And if we are not going to make this purple area
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just as highly erodible and it ' s steeper by the way, there ' s a problem there too . And if we ' re not
going to take care of our culverts along the trail that a 1 ,000 or 100 metric tons of dirt flow into
the lake all at once. My family discovered there was a trestle there in Glenwood Creek went for
80 years and never knew about it. That ' s crazy too . So, we can ' t even take care of what we have.
And now we ' re trying to force it on the private lands owners when we publicly don ' t do a good
job of taking care of it as well . Am I over?
Sue Poelvoorde
Yes .
Greg Scott Reynolds
Thanks. Sorry I got emotional, but it ' s really a personal thing for us because we ' re getting
attacked on both sides as these agricultural land owners along here and we 're agriculture but
paying rural residential taxes . And it ' s just being taken away from us one law and regulation at a
time . Thank you.
Sue Poelvoorde
Thank you, Mr. Reynolds .
Peter Cooke you have a question mark. Would you like to speak?
Peter Cooke
I guess no . Thank you.
Sue Poelvoorde
There ' s a voice in the hall . Well I don ' t have anyone else that ' s checked yes . Is there anyone that
did not? Peter Houghton.
Peter Houghton
My name is Peter Houghton. My family dates back to the 1920s in the Town of Ulysses . I
personally lived here from the 40 ' s until the mid 60 ' s. My brother has been here his whole life.
I ' ve since returned . This is the first opportunity I ' ve had to look at these documents in the last
half hour, but I do have three or four comments that I would like to pass on to the board. The
first one would address what ' s in here as the, as the Environmental Protection Area. I feel you ' ve
got some inconsistencies here . If you look at the document, the 200-page document, which I ' m
disappointed there ' s not enough copies for each of us to have, I ' ve been looking at that briefly
tonight. On page 93 is the Soils Map indicating the soil types in the Town of Ulysses . That soils
map indicates that there are thousands of acres of prime agriculture property, land that ' s mapped
east of the Dubois Road and east of the Willow Creek Road . Yet, you have this Environmental
Protection Area going all the way up to the Dubois Road and the Willow Creek Road and that ' s
highly inconsistent. You can ' t have prime agricultural land mapped below that, east of that and
then call that an Environmental Protection Area. So, that needs to be addressed.
The other thing in. the Environmental Protection Area description it talks about, the wording has
the phrase as far as insuring development to be considerate of the natural character in and
adjacent to that particular EPA zone. I don ' t see how you can indicate that you ' re going to
control adjacent activity in a zone . It ' s either in the zone or it ' s out. It ' s like being pregnant, you
are, or you aren ' t. You can ' t control it outside of the zone by including the term in and adjacent.
So , I think that needs to be addressed too .
I have comments on the Conservation Zone itself and I ' m sorry that the Bergmann people
.weren ' t here . I don ' t understand why the Town spent thousands of dollars on the Bergmann
Associate firm and there is not a representative with us tonight. But in any event, the
Conservation Area, which is the crosshatched area, stops at the boundary of Taughannock Falls
State Park. If there is any area in this town that has sharp, steep terrain, multiple streams, deep
gorges and ravines, it ' s Taughannock State Park. I don' t understand why it is arbitrarily halted at
the Taughannock State Park boundary. I realize zoning, when you get to, when this goes to the
next iteration three levels from now, when it gets through the Town Planning Board, Town
Board, and Zoning Board, and zoning comes up, obviously zoning restrictions don ' t apply on the
State owned land . But, for land use purposes that Conservation Area should certainly extend all
the way through the state park and in fact encompass most of Taughannock State Park if the
description is as is indicated here steep and erodible soils, and ravines, and streams and steep
terrain. So that to me is also inconsistent, that that isn' t zoned that way.
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The third point I wish to make addresses the area that is called Lakeshore . I don ' t understand
why there isn ' t an exception on the Lakeshore as far as a different color-coding for the Girl
Scout camp . Obviously, I would think would fall in the same category as the State Park. The
State Park you have the purple stops both north and south of the state park and the State Park
intrudes all the way to the lake as a Natural Area/Parkland and I would think that the Girl Scout
camp which has got some 4, 000 feet of lake frontage, would be accorded the same type of
classification as the state park, because its obviously a non-profit. It doesn ' t pay taxes, etc . , etc .
But, you ' ve got this purple running all the way through it and I don ' t, I think that ' s very
inconsistent also .
Lastly, the meeting, you made reference that comments, written comments can be made up
through the 16th of February and will be taken into consideration at your February 19th meeting.
Is that a public meeting?
Sue Poelvoorde
All of our meetings are public .
Peter Houghton
Is that here?
Sue Poelvoorde
Yes, we meet here at Town Hall .
Peter Houghton
1 What day of the week is that?
Sue Poelvoorde
That ' s a Thursday evening, 7 : 00 p .m .
Peter Houghton
But that does not allow for public input? If public comes to that meeting, it ' s a working session
of this committee.
Sue Poelvoorde
If the public attends, we would engage the public comment at the meeting.
Peter Houghton
You would engage the public?
Sue Poelvoorde
Sure .
Peter Houghton
Because I have had very little time, the hour or so • tonight to quickly look at this document and
briefly look at the 200-page document. But, as little bit of background about myself I am retired.
I was , I am a licensed engineer, with, my whole career was with the State Department of
Transportation. So , I ' ve had a lot of involvement in these type of activities. Not necessarily in
the Town of Ulysses, obviously, but in other endeavors throughout my career and I really. Will
Bergmann Associates be available on February 19th?
Sue Poelvoorde
No . This is the Committee ' s meeting. What specifics do you have that you wanted to talk to
them about?
Peter Houghton
In my experience with these types of endeavors throughout the State, and there are many of these
that go on year after year in different communities ; the towns, the villages, the cities, etc . The
consultant plays a role in pulling everything together into the document and I would think that,
obviously, they don 't work free, we paid them a considerable sum I presume, to assist this
committee in their development of this 200-page document and I would think that they would
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be present to answer some inconsistencies if any come up as to how certain things got into the
document or why certain things got omitted from the document.
They are the ones who printed the document, correct? Part of their contract?
Sue Poelvoorde
Yes, they printed it.
Peter Houghton
They printed it. But, they will not be here on the 19th?
Sue Poelvoorde
No .
Peter Houghton
Okay.
Elizabeth Thomas
They will however, be here at the next hearing for the Town Board. There was a choice we had
to make . We only contracted with them to be at so many meetings . So, there is one more hearing
that the Town Board will have and they will be presenting then. We had to make a choice as to
whether they would be at this one or that one. The date hasn' t been set for that one .
Peter Houghton
Well, I only attended one other meeting.
Sue Poelvoorde
We can continue this conversation after close of the public hearing.
Peter Houghton
I attended the meeting at the Racker Center about a year ago and someone was there. That was a
very stormy night, and they wanted to get home quickly. Have they been to other meetings? Is
that the only meeting they came too?
Roxanne Marino
No, they were at several other public meetings and several of our committee meetings .
Peter Houghton
But, not this one .
Sue Poelvoorde
No .
Peter Houghton
Thank you.
Sue Poelvoorde
Was there anyone else that wanted to make a comment that didn' t check the box when they came
in?
Lyle Gordon
I didn' t check any boxes because I wasn' t sure .
Sue Poelvoorde
Okay.
Lyle Gordon
I have been at a number of the other meetings with Bergmann at the Racker Center and going
through that process and this seems to fairly accurately reflect what I felt was the community
input that was received at that time. So , basically I would agree with the plan. One of the things
that I understand is that this, because there' s been a lot of discussion on the, this -protected area
along the lakefront. My understanding is that there is nothing in this that would change the
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ability of people to continue to farm and use the land that they have in the manner in which they
are using it now . And I would certainly hope that there is nothing in the plan, which does change
that in any way. As far as the Conservation Area, it does seem to me to reflect, and I rather wish
that it had some topographical lines on it so that we could see the break in the steepness of the
slopes . Because it seems to me that is probably what this follows . Although, Dubois Road and
Willow Creek they are more or less there, but that seems to be one area where it ' s following the
road as opposed to what the actual contours lines are and maybe the contour lines does . And the
Lakeshore area, as was pointed out, is an extremely steep area and in many areas steeper than the
Conservation Area. And so, that should have as much protection, I would think, as the
Conservation Area and again, as you say in the documents that ' s now mostly single-family
residential . And so the zoning needs to reflect restrictions on any additional building or changes
in those areas to protect the slopes and prevent even more erosion than we are getting now.
Beyond that I just wanted to speak briefly about the area around Krums Corners Road. This
already is an area where there are a number of businesses and things like that and while it
certainly isn ' t up to the Town to decide exactly how things get developed . I mean you are not
going to go out and purchase the property and build a store . For me at least, that would be a nice
area since I live just up the road on Perry City. That would be a nice area to see a little more in
the way of commercial some development, rather than having to go all the way into Jacksonville.
Thank you.
Sue Poelvoorde
Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to now feel inspired since other people have
spoken. If not, I will close the public hearing.
Peter Houghton
Am I allowed to speak again? Did I use up all my five minutes?
Sue Poelvoorde
If you have something else that you would like to point out as an inaccuracy.
Peter Houghton
Again, I scribbled on this paper and I overlooked, on the Conservation Area there ' s terms that
are very general and very, purposely I presume, non-specific . But, there are words that concern
me. It says that the environmental sensitivity of this area demands establishing strong zoning
regulations to guard again inappropriate development. Now appropriate that ' s a very general
term. What ' s inappropriate to me, may be appropriate for you, vice versa. And to protect these
resources that give the Town, blah, blah, blah. In order to implement protection of this area, the
Town should consider, it doesn ' t say may consider it says should which is a strong term, a
number of mechanisms including overlay zones . I don ' t know what an overlay zone is . To me if
you are designating an area a Conservation Area, you ' ve established a zone and I don ' t know.
There is nothing to overlay it with. I don ' t, I . Again, to me that is inconsistent.
(Break in statement, while tape was changed)
words that leave an awful lot to interpretation and I presume as it gets before the Town Board
someone ' s got to start honing in and defining these, the intent of what these very general terms
are . And certainly, specifically when you get to the zoning level it is going to be very pertinent
that it ' s spelled out precisely what appropriate is and what inappropriate is and what overlay
zoning is and all these other things . Thank you.
Sue Poelvoorde
Thank you, Peter.
David Tyler
Let me just say one thing. You were talking about coming to our meeting, which you are
welcome to come to on the 19th . That is going to be a working session for this body. If you have
something significant to say, you ' d be best to put it in writing because I don ' t think there will be
a lot of time which to be allocated to just a discussion like we had here tonight .
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Peter Houghton
Well, between now and then it ' s going to be an attempt to get a hold of one of these 200-page
documents. Obviously, these six pages is insufficient for me to give any kind of in depth
comments, Hopefully, I can get a copy of this between now and then, with time to review it and a
time to submit written comments .
David Tyler
That is preferable . Thank you.
Sue Poelvoorde
Anyone? Yes . Greg .
Greg Scott Reynolds
Yes, I apologize about earlier. But, I wanted to, Stan reminded me of something earlier. There ' s
a group of people in the Town that are older and that have been farming for a long time. Some of
them are one of the forty people I am here to represent and Stan would maybe in that category.
When you ' re self-employed and you ' ve been a farmer since 1930 or in the family you didn ' t pay
social security.
Stan Koskinen
No , No . It wasn ' t in the family.
Greg Scott Reynolds
Okay. But, I was talking about my family. My family started in 32 , Stan. You don ' t pay Social
Security taxes . Okay so you don ' t have that for your retirement. What you did have, was
something, on the back of the dollar bill it says "In God We Trust," other people trusted in land .
And they want to sell that when they got older to fund their retirement, medical expenses,
nursing homes, things that we shouldn ' t take for granted. Especially, for those people that have
been in this Town for a long time . Thank you .
Sue Poelvoorde
Thank you. Okay, any other comments? Yes .
Heinz Riederer
I ' m Heinz Riederer. I live at Maplewood Point.
Sue Poelvoorde
Heinz, are you making a statement? Come to the . . .
Heinz Reiderer
No, just a quick comment. I am perhaps trying to get a little background on a statement . .
(Audience member asks Heinz to use the microphone as they could not hear him. Someone
else asks him to state his name again.)
Heinz Reiderer
I am Heinz Reiderer. I live on Maplewood. And, this is my first exposure to this document and I
am somewhat curious and maybe I am presenting this as a question . In one section you indicate
that between Taughannock State Park and the southern end of the town, which is all the
lakefront, there is no public access and you say so exists as presently, at present . But, yet when
you do the Lakeshore description you speak about actually making zoning available for some
type of lakeshore access which possibly may be commercial not necessarily public park and you
seem to direct some thought toward a public access, and A) I question that being in a
comprehensive plan, because it presently does not exist. So , the question is why you put it in?
It ' s not a present situation. And I would say I would certainly be opposed to any commercial
development on the lake if that entire area is presently private land, single-family homes . So , I
would like to have some response to that. What the thinking is .
Sue Poelvoorde
Anyone else like to make a comment?
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Stan Koskinen
I have to leave now, but my comment to the selected few that sit here have no constitution right
to tell a private property owner what he can do with his property. Thank you.
Sue Poelvoorde
Thank you, Stan. If there are no other comments we will close the public hearing. I would like to
thank you all for coming out tonight. Again, we will receive comments up to the close of
business on February 16`" . I guess that ' s it and we will be here to talk to .
Public hearing closed at 7 : 48 p. m.
Transcribed by : Sue A. Poelvoorde, Chair,
Town of Ulysses Comprehensive Plan Update Committee.