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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-06-03 - PB TOWN OF ULYSSES PLANNING BOARD 06/03/08 APPROVED 06/17/08 Present : Chairperson Ken Zeserson, Planning Board Members : Rod Hawkes, David Means, John Wertis, Deputy Supervisor Dick Coogan, Town Board Member David Kerness Excused : Rod Porter, Rebecca Schneider Guest: Sue Ritter, Planner Town of Ithaca Mr. Zeserson called the meeting to order at 7 : 30 pm. He stated they had invited Sue Ritter, a Planner from the Town of Ithaca to speak with them regarding the process Ithaca had used in establishing their conservation zone . He informed her they had started out with what they are trying to do and realized they had no idea how to do it. They decided to have Ms . Ritter come and present in the most basic sense how they should start. They come up with the why, which is they would like to protect view shed ' s, the recharge area for water supplies, steep slopes are environmentally critical due to drainage as well as the UNA ' s . Mr. Doyle had presented them with different methods to pursue these zones . Ms. Ritter stated in Ithaca they had worked with the property owner' s in Ithaca there were 5 owners in the steep slope area, however in other zones there were many owner' s involved. Mr. Zeserson noted that in the area East of 89 to Taughannock Park there are 217 properties involved, West of 89 to Dubois/Willow Creek there are 135 properties . The area they are trying to protect would be contiguous to Ithaca up to Taughannock, encompassing the Black Diamond Trail and include the lakeshore. Ms . Ritter stated she drives Route 89 daily and has looked at it knowing they want to protect it. They are thinking conservation zone thus they would be down zoning. They would be going from 1 house per 2 acres to 1 house per 7 acres . There are legal precedent for doing this, they need to make sure in that area they have these features . They have the steep slopes up to the point in 89 where the small gas station/store is . She is not sure once they past the store they have justification. She goes as far as Kraft Road but once you hit Taughannock it is zoned as Parks & Recreation under Ulysses . Mr. Wertis stated the consultants for the Comp Plan put together maps and pages of information that indicates all of this information. They were in a bound document that was presented at the Racker Center meetings . It has slopes, topography, soil types maps. There were bigger maps but the smaller maps are easier to share. This document could help by reviewing these documents and find the data for justification. The members agreed this would be a good document, the Comp Plan members will get a copy for the next meeting. A brief discussion regarding steep slopes West of 89 was held. The members discussed how Ithaca interpreted the erodible soils using agronomic maps that were provided. It was determined this information should be available to Ulysses properties via the Comp Plan research. The Town of Ithaca initiated the Conservation Zone by indentifying steep slopes and contiguous forested areas, view shed ' s, 89 Scenic Byway, biological components. The zone needs to be justified in criteria, i . e. water supply/quality of streams, stormwater in the area. Mr. Means asked if there is a practical size for a zone . Planning Board 2 06/03/2008 MS . Ritter stated they had never dealt with a small area. They viewed it as a biological rich area where animals can move around, viewsheds obviously viewing the lake and the forested areas . Route 89 is a scenic byway. They also used practical applications and tried to use property lines as boundaries. They used the hospital boundary for example . It does not always work but they do try to do that. It was the goal of Ithaca to lower the density of development to protect sensitive resources within the conservation zone. They did not want to prevent development but wanted to alleviate Stormwater problems . If anyone driving up 89 noticed the Petucci property which had a lot of problems with stormwater, the driveway is very steep . Mr. Means asked if they he were a property owner on Dubois Road would he want this zone . Mr. Zeserson stated that sounded like a very good reasoning. If he were a property owner he would either be happy or mad. It depended on each owner. Mr. Kerness stated if they could review the properties and develop criteria as well as walk the area it would help establish their goals . He would like to include everything West of Maplewood up to Route 89 . If they could pin down the specific areas they feel would be appropriate they could understand the challenges they may encounter. Mr. Zeserson agreed and stated a field trip would be a worthwhile trip . Mr. Wertis suggested the delineate areas they would like to see vs . just starting to walk west. He stated the goal of limiting development does not sound like a good goal . It sounds very contentious to the public . Mr. Zeserson stated it would need to be presented appropriately. If someone asked him if he wants 150 houses developed over Maplewood Road, his answer would be no . Is he against houses being developed there, he understands it probably will happen but he would not object if it was handled appropriately. He is not against development but he would prefer it to be developed using criteria to protect resources whether it be Maplewood Road, Dubois Road or any other part of Ulysses . Mr. Means asked if a zoning district is different from a conservation district. Mr. Coogan stated it would still contain everything the zoning law requires they could also use an overlay district. Ms . Ritter agreed there are several ways to deal with this . Mr. Means stated he understands and what he is visioning is several different conservation zones . Mr. Zeserson stated that is what they may want i . e. Zoning requires 2 acres, they may consider 7 acres for lake areas, and 3 acres for Dubois Road area. Mr. Means asked if they had a public hearing they would have to present all these requirements . Ms. Ritter stated Ithaca uses one conservation zone, which all require 7 acres . They considered additional zones however were concerned it would be too confusing. Largely, the reasoning for Ithaca was to reduce the density of development. They are revisiting the wording due to the forest management plans . Currently, the property owner has the right to clear cut up to an acre, after that they have to have a forest management plan. The streams are not protected in their plan. Mr. Zeserson stated they would probably want to be more inclusive of streams, forested areas . Ms . Ritter showed on the map the first area that was designated as a conservation zone . The 6 Mile Creek area public hearings were very contentious when the conservation zone was first introduced Planning Board 3 06/03/2008 Mr. Kerness stated after reviewing the Ithaca and Ulysses map he feels the best place to start would take the Ithaca zone and go North up through Ulysses, the Black Diamond Trail would make a good border. Mr. Zeserson agreed as the Black Diamond Trail is protected by the State Parks, he noted NYSEG is involved on some portions of the property. He stated they should review the Comp Plan maps, walk around the areas, he would like to have the members that are knowledgeable regarding the biological components . Rebecca and others are good resources for the watersheds and biology aspects, steep slopes, trees, etc . Ms. Ritter stated resourcing the UNA books for important items for specific criteria is good idea. They need to list plants, etc . that are critical areas . Mr. Kerness noted Ithaca had expanded the UNA in their conservation zone. Ms . Ritter stated they did, they included more of the forested areas. Mr. Kerness stated this would be a good item to look at. They could review the UNA and borders . Mr. Wertis stated he is not sure if they are taking a step forward or step back. He has been involved with the MS4/Stormwater committee . They have looked at Route 89 and have discussed conservation overlay for this area. Mr. Coogan stated that this is a critical thing, an overlay could be used vs. conservation district. Mr. Wertis agreed and stated it would be easy to develop but it is less than what he has been involved in. Mr. Kerness stated it is, but if they start with too much it could grind to a stop . They could look at both areas, he does not have a stormwater map but they could consider this. Ms . Ritter stated one item they could consider is leave zoning then put an overlay over it. That would leave everything at two acres . She demonstrated on a Town of Ithaca map what an overlay district would do , it could increase restrictions . Mr. Coogan stated they could do this via conservation efforts, in the overlay they have setbacks for streams, require site plan review for a conservation area. An overlay district could be used as a preliminary step . Overlay districts are easier and they can be done for two years to review where problems may occurs, they can then update at a later date vs . changing zoning. Ms . Ritter stated they could do both. They could locate the sensitive areas, steeper slopes, just outright state conservation zone with 7 acre lot size . Then they could have another area with a conservation overlay with 7 acre lot size, this would have two acre lot size with expanded setbacks within the Dubois area as an example. Mr. Kerness stated he believes they need to establish their goals, the areas they are - concerned with then review the criteria and system they believe they should use. Mr. Hawkes stated it does not sound like Ithaca had set slopes they used. Ms. Ritter stated they did not draw the line with the slopes, but she thought they used 10 to 15 degree slopes . She is on staff at Ithaca thus she had resources, it is up to them to assist in developing rational . They have committees who determined what is appropriate and justifiable in developing the lines . She then took this information and developed it for presentation at public hearings. This is a voluntary board thus they would have to do all of this work on their own. Mr. Zeserson agreed and stated they hope they can use some of Ithaca' s information, as well as information gathered by the Comp Plan. The UNA book listed out the critical Planning Board 4 06/03/2008 features of this area. So, it would take time but he felt a small group of members could gather and compile information using these resources . Ms . Ritter stated the conservation zone in Ithaca did not include the lakefront as it was already fully developed. They need to determine what they want to protect and develop areas to do it. Mr. Zeserson agreed, on Maplewood Road there are 60 houses within a 1 mile swath. Mr. Coogan stated in these areas if there are already lots divided into 2 acres they would grandfathered in as allowable sizes . Mr. Zeserson stated he understands that, on Maplewood Road there are houses on 'A acre lots . They discussed various areas within this area that have excellent views . He noted that if they establish 7 acre requirement it would not affect him. Ms . Ritter stated the conservation zone does require a variance if an owner wants to add a porch for example. Ulysses zoning is actually more restrictive than Ithaca, Ulysses require 2 acres and Ithaca is 15 ,000 square feet for a lot size. Mr. Hawkes noted that Kraft/Agard Road, Route 89 have lots that are not wide but are long, they average about 5 acres . Ms . Ritter stated that an example would be if the Girl Scout camp were sold, there are limited restrictions currently in place. These could be subdivided into 2 acre lots. Mr. Zeserson asked how long Ithaca took to get their zone developed . Ms. Ritter stated they used the maps, books available, it was in the Comp Plan but work had not been done before on the conservation zone. It took several years to pull all of the work together and get finalized. Mr. Wertis stated he could see the need to establish a group to work through the information, he feels it would be difficult to get all of this information prepared by the full committee. Mr. Coogan stated it could be construed as a meeting if they get a group together and discuss information. Mr. Zeserson stated he would like to establish a working committee to include himself, Mr. Wertis and Ms . Schneider. He asked Mr. Kerness to attend as a Town Board representative to research and prepare a preliminary presentation. Ms . Ritter stated Ithaca had GIS programs and the staff to gather this information. She stated she could get the aerial maps for Ulysses for them. Mr. Kerness asked if they walk the land as a group is that considered a meeting. Mr. Coogan stated if they walk together it would. He suggested Mr. Kerness contact the Town Attorney for clarification, she had been asked for clarification regarding this however had not gotten back to them. This has been raging through the state for years . Ms. Carlisle Peck stated on NYS Open Meeting law it did state a group of members qualified as a meeting. Mr. Kerness stated he would contact the attorney for clarification. A discussion regarding problems incurred with the Comp Plan Committee and quorum was held. Mr. Zeserson presented they would establish the committee and once clarified by the Town Attorney they would proceed. Planning Board 5 06/03/2008 Ms. Ritter stated with the Planning Board site visits it gets tricky as they do have quorum. She stated they could have extra meeting ' s, they have to make the legal announcements. Mr. Zeserson stated they would meet again on June 17th at the regular meeting to review the maps and present research gathered to date. He stated they might have a site plan to review from a software company that would like to build on Route 96 . They do programming for homeland security. He informed them they need packets by June 11th to review prior to the meeting. The applicants seemed eager to cooperate and stated they would have this information to them asap . Mr. Means made the MOTION, seconded by Mr. Hawkes to APPROVE the minutes of 05/20/08 . All members voted yes, Minutes 05/20/08 approved unanimously. Mr. Wertis stated he would appreciate an agenda and reminders via email of meetings . Ms . Carlisle Peck stated she would issue reminders . Mr. Zeserson stated he would prepare an agenda for the meetings . The meeting was adjourned at 8 : 35 pm . Respectfully submitted, Robin Carlisle Peck Secretary 06/ 11 /07