Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-08-21 - PH Planning Board 1 08/21 /2007 TOWN OF ULYSSES PLANNING BOARD 08/21 /07 APPROVED 11/13/07 Present : Chairperson Ken Zeserson, Planning Board Members : David Kerness, David Means, Rod Porter, Rebecca Schneider, John Wertis, Deputy Supervisor Richard Coogan Excused : Darien Simon Applicant : Mr. Scott Sherwood Mr. Zeserson called the meeting to order at 7 : 30 pm . He stated the minutes of 04/ 17/07 and 07117/07 need to be approved. Mr. Zeserson made the MOTION, seconded by Mr. Kerness to approve the minutes of 04/ 17/07 and 07/ 17/07 was made. The vote was unanimous . NOTE : Mr. Porter was not in attendance when the vote on the minutes was taken. Mr. Zeserson stated they had received an application from Spruce Row Campsites to sell campers on the site. If you go to the Zoning Law it indicates it is not allowed, this brings them back to the beginning to make a new application for a Development District this is what they are here to do now. He asked Mr. Sherwood to give an explanation of the project. Mr. Sherwood stated it is his intent to obtain a NYS Dealers license. It is a requirement to apply that he be allowed by Town Law to sell. He does not intend on developing a big sales lot, he just wants to be able to attend auctions and buy new units to sell. He cannot order directly from manufacturers without a dealer ' s license. It is a way to enhance his business. He wants to do things on the up and up and he cannot do this without the license. He is approached from visitors to the campground regarding sales, he thought this would be a way to boost his business . Mr. Zeserson asked if he planned on any major development on the site. Mr. Sherwood stated nothing would change, there is a parking lot where the units would be stored. He does not plan on changing anything that is not on the map now. The only difference is he would have new units on site. Ms . Schneider asked if in theory he could put 20- 50 units on there. Mr. Sherwood stated he could except the lot is not big enough. Ms . Schneider confirmed that they are not here to determine how many but rather the fact that he would like to be able to sell on the property. Mr. Sherwood stated that is correct, he is not planning on going big. He supposed he could but he would have to have a professional surveyor and the size of the lot is not big enough. Mr. Kerness stated they need to do the whole Development District, there is no place where they can revise, and it specifically states a new district would have to come to the table. Thus, all the other items would have to be reviewed, including a public hearing as well as a new SEQR. Mr. Coogan stated the Town Board requested Mr. Rachun to determine completeness of the application. Mr. Rachun stated with the existing map of the development district and the new letters and new maps it was complete . If you read through the development district section 16 . 3 . 1 paragraph 2 (Commercial sales) you would strike two and change Planning Board 2 08/21 /2007 the wording to commercial sales allowed with up to 5 units. Thus the whole project would not be reviewed but just the area related to commercial sales . Mr. Kerness stated this Board has needs boundaries and conditions . Mr. Wertis stated it should also be put into a format that is easily read by the Board, the pile of items presented from prior years is not realistic to expect the Board to go through the entire file; to get information from . Mr. Coogan stated that is essentially what the zoning law is . The information presented was reviewed and compiled to compose the development district regulations for this area. Mr. Wertis stated he appreciated that interpretation . Ms . Schneider stated she would like to know what the original intent was for the development district, why did they not allow sales originally. She would like to know why, she views this as a major change. She does not feel it is their job to facilitate all the changes without inquiring what is around this area and what it means for their town. Mr. Means agreed with Ms . Schneider and stated he would like public input and if it means they have a public hearing then so be it. Mr. Coogan stated as a Board they have all the rights to review as they want. They can do a SEQR hearing and they can do a public hearing, however it is not a hearing that will end with an action. They can only make a recommendation. Mr. Zeserson informed Mr. Sherwood they are not trying to be difficult but it is more of public situation and more comprehensive hearing then it may have appeared . Mr. Means stated this is a major change and development districts are unique. Mr. Coogan stated if they have a public hearing they should ask for neighbor notification, rezoning is the only area this is not specified . If they have a public hearing ask for neighbor notification and he will see that these go out at the same time. Ms . Schneider stated she would like to clarify this, she would like more information and has qualms approving this . She understands they may come to a consensus as a group but the group seems to feel it is worthy of public input . Mr. Zeserson agreed that this seems like a simple request but it seems to open up a much larger issue, at one point in time Route 13 was a simple cow path. If they work together they can probably work together and make it work well . Ms. Schneider agreed and asked if the Comprehensive Plan group should be in on it. Mr. Wertis read the resolution and stated he does not remember hearing it this way at the Town Board imeeting, but his understanding the Town Lawyers opinion was not just looking at just one item but rather a new development district . Mr. Coogan stated the Town Board when they review must review as a new development district, it will not be development district 1 it will be reassigned . Mr. Wertis stated if they do that would they have to review all aspects of the development district. They have responsibilities then to review for the new zoning regulations, setbacks, etc . It would be nice to know before we review this . Mr. Zeserson stated that is up to the Town Board, they have asked the Planning Board to make a recommendation based on their review, how they chose to get the input-Public Hearing, SEAR is this Boards decision. Ms . Schneider stated she is comfortable with that. 7 Planning Board 3 08/21 /2007 Mr. Wertis stated then this Board is not allowed to review for the bigger picture. Mr. Coogan stated this Board can, however the Town Board has the final decision. Mr. Zeserson stated he understands that, however they can pursue the avenues they feel are justified and present the information to the Board . Mr. Coogan stated this group is functioning as a 2391/m similar to the County. If this Board makes a recommendation it would require a super majority vote to overrule the Planning Board ' s recommendation. Ms . Schneider stated so they are the final but we can assist in gathering and reviewing information . Mr. Kerness stated the DD1 section is pretty well spelled out. He would like something that limits the amount of units on site-he is not particular as to the amount-but there is a limit of space available . He just does not want to see them keep their inventory on the property, this type of wording needs to be included if it is included . His concern is everything in this document becomes open to public hearing. In the beginning it states they cannot revise a DD it has to be rezoned . Mr. Coogan stated they could grandfather the rest then amend the commercial sales part. Ms . Schneider asked if there were other businesses along this road she has not had a chance to drive down there. Mr. Sherwood stated there are not. Mr. Means asked if he currently uses signs to advertise his rentals . Mr. Sherwood stated they do have rental units that they sell as they replace them . Mr. Means asked what type of complaints from neighbors they receive . Mr. Sherwood stated they do not get complaints, he has been there ten years and they have not received any. They regulate the campgrounds as a family area, fireworks are not allowed and they evict any individuals who do not comply with the rules after they are warned . Mr. Kerness agreed it is a nice camp they have stayed there . Mr. Sherwood stated the only comments and Mr. Rachun can verify this is when they have a band 1 or 2 time per season. They have not received complaints but comments that individuals could hear it 1 road over and listened to the music that night. Mr. Wertis stated camp fire smoke is a complaint, he stated Mr. Rachun the public will not comment until there is a public hearing but they all come out. Mr. Means stated there is a boat business on Dubois road and he wondered if they store and sell new boats there . Ms . Carlisle Peck stated they just service motors and equipment they do not sell boats . Mr. Kerness stated he had reviewed DD6 which was new sales and cars for comparison. Mr. Means noted this is in an agricultural district. Ms . Schneider stated this is a major change, they have farmers that could come in and want to sell equipment. Mr. Coogan stated they can sell farm related equipment according to the agricultural regulations . Planning Board 4 08/21 /2007 Mr. Zesersoni asked in relation to next steps what do they do . He has made an application what is the time limits if any. Mr. Coogan stated he has gone in front of the Town Board and has accepted the application, he has paid the fees . He is not aware of any time frame, the time limits would be on the Town Board not this Board. Ms . Carlisle Peck asked when the new Zoning would be going into effect so we would not get caught in another split zoning regulations situation. Mr. Coogan stated it would probably not happen soon, thus that should not be an issue . Mr. Wertis stated the requirements for the zoning are in the works, have there been any amendments in the original from what is here today. Mr. Coogan stated no the Development District is still the same . Mr. Sherwood stated he has spoken with his father in law who owned the property before him and nothing has been changed in this district. Mr. Weber tried to get this put through about 10 years ago but it did not go through. Ms . Schneider asked if he has sold trailers here before. Mr. Sherwood stated they have sold to individuals, or they have individuals that leave their camperi there for sale . Mr. Wertis stated there are items to look at that may or may not be in the development district that he would like to have provided. One item he would like to see is the topography maps . If someone could sort out the information it would be helpful . Mr. Porter stated he is curious why, the DD in the zoning is a compilation of that. Ms . Schneider stated she would like a topo map due to having oils and fluids in the campers -if there is a leak where does it go . Mr. Sherwood stated there are not fluids in the campers, he is not selling automobiles, campers do not run like that . Mr. Wertis stated he visited the site and he saw some inconsistencies in the description and what is on site and it raised question for him. Mr. Sherwood asked for an example. Mr. Wertis 'stated he noted cabins were available, the DD does not list cabins, he heard at the beginning what the Town Board wants this Board to look at. Ms . Schneider asked what other issues Mr. Wertis had. Mr. Wertis stated the fact that Mr. Sherwood is selling campers on the site indicates he is not in compliance with the DD . Mr. Sherwood asked if Mr. Wertis sells a personal vehicle out of his yard is he in the commercial auto sales business . Mr. Zeserson stated he can see a distinction between casual sales and listing yourself as camper sales . Mr. Porter stated there is a distinction between commercial and personal sales . These are important questions . Mr. Wertis stated our zoning does not classify commercial sales . Planning Board 5 08/21 /2007 Mr. Zeserson stated he would like to schedule a meeting between the Board members t6 review the application and work out how they want to proceed. Mr. Sherwood is welcome to attend this would allow the members time to review the application and come prepared. Mr. Coogan stated Mr. Rachun informed him you could sell up to four a year. Mr. Kerness stated he would like to get some idea of what Mr. Sherwood ' s needs are. Mr. Sherwood would like to have the license by spring but there is nothing binding. This is a busy time of year for him . Ms . Schneider stated some of the information she would be looking for how much of the acreage would be used . Mr. Sherwood stated this information has been provided , the acreage allowed for campgrounds is on the map . The rest are woods and fields and it will remain that way. Mr. Wertis stated he had some difficulty trying to match the specifications, what sticks in his mind is the miniature gold area is still visible from the road. Mr. Sherwood stated there are two rows of pines , some have died and not been replaced. He mows them every week and he has some difficulty mowing between them. He stated it is also in the zoning that if they die they are replaced with another 4 foot tree . Mr. Wertis stated prior to the next meeting all the members should visit so all know what they are talking about. Mr. Means asked how many trailers are onsite that are not hooked up . Mr. Sherwood stated there are about 10 behind the storage area that are not hooked up . Mr. Wertis asked what he considers the placement of rocks on the bank that says Spruce Row . Mr. Sherwood stated it is landscaping. It is his opinion he should not have to back down over a minor change in the district . Mr. Kerness stated he can appreciate that, however doing this opens up the whole document and when you invite the public that is the chance you take. Mr. Zeserson stated that is one consideration, he knows his neighbors and what could happen. Mr. Wertis stated he is still confused, they are looking at it as a new development . In the new zoning there are new setbacks . The campground is close to Willow Creek, that could come out in a public hearing and be reviewed . There are a whole row of campers along Willow Creek, this is a new application thus would that have to be reviewed and revised . Ms . Schneider stated would the whole campground he reviewed . Mr. Means stated he thought it would be grandfathered . Mr. Zeserson asked by changing this would it open the whole campground to review . Mr. Coogan stated it would be a new district . Mariette (Town Attorney) stated there is always a possibility the Town can change any provision including provision of the development district. There would be a grandfathering claim for uses of zoning when they went into effect . Spruce Row can come back and state it was in force when it was developed, the Courts would uphold the Spruce Row claim. Planning Board 6 08/21 /2007 Ms . Schneider stated she would like to understand the logic, if they were adding new campsites . Thus, since they are reviewing the new sales area they would be reviewing that in terms ,of runoff etc . Mr. Coogan affirmed this . Ms . Schneider asked when the next meeting would be. Mr. Zeserson stated he would be available the next week. Mr. Coogan suggested they have a regular scheduled meeting on the fourth. Mr. Zeserson stated they should all take a field trip to the site and they will meet on September 4°' to review the material . Mr. Coogan stated the material is available at the Town Hall for review, he cannot allow the items to be removed but they can copy the information they would like to take with them . Mr. Wertis stated after reading the note from Mariette, the grandfathering clause what is the definition of changing use . He asked Mr. Coogan to ask the specifics of what they discussed be given to Mariette. Specifically, the stream buffers, if it is a new district do they review the entire campground vs . just the trailer areas . He asked for copies of this and asked why the Board was not given copies of it since it was given to him on July 23`d . Mr. Coogan replied it was sent to him directly as a memo clarifying the actions . Mr. Wertis stated this is information that is useful to the Board and it should have been provided prior to this date for clarification. Mr. Coogan stated information is provided to him as an attorney that the Board is not privileged to . Mr. Kerness; stated he thinks what he is hearing is that this is a new Development District, in this case does it have meet the current laws . What is the position on grandfathering within the zoning area. Mr. Coogan , stated he would get clarification regarding meeting the new standards vs . grandfathered. Ms . Schneider stated the grandfathering clause could be questionable. If there are areas you do not want universal coverage for this could lead to other problems . Mr. Zeserson stated in lake front lots there are lots of variances obtained, they get the approval for the variance but the rest of the house, lot does not get reviewed. Mr. Coogan stated any zoning district can be reviewed and changed at anytime. A court can review for grandfathering. Mr. Zeserson stated the next meeting will be September 4`" , all members should try to get to the site, if desired review the information in the Town Hall, and they will get ' clarification; from the Town attorney. Mr. Wertis suggested they stop in the campsite office and get a copy of the map provided there, it was very informative, and it is not to scale but very helpful in reviewing the campsite. Mr. Coogan stated he would also try to get a time line from the Town Board, he will also get the definition of commercial sales . Mr. Wertis asked if Mr. Sherwood could compile occupancy statistics during the season. Planning Board 7 08/21 /2007 The development district allows 425 , they have 200 some numbers currently. During the season what are the occupancy numbers . Mr. Sherwood stated they have computer programs that can get that information. Mr. Wertis stated what he is considering is if there are complaints of smoke currently, there could be more if the increase to 425 . Mr. Zeserson stated that is not what they are reviewing . Mr. Coogan provided the County regulation regarding campfires . Ms . Schneider stated the reality is he is trying to keep his business lucrative, her question is they start selling like crazy, would he keep coming back to sell more. Mr. Sherwood stated that is not his plan, he wants to be able to buy from the manufacturer' s whatever fits in there , probably 6 is what he can sell . Ms . Schneider stated that the sprawl affect can make it a problem, piece by piece this area becomes a commercial area, selling campers etc . Mr. Sherwood stated he is not planning to do that, he likes his seclusion. Ms . Schneider stated if he chooses to sell , the right to sell goes with the sale of the property. This person could decide he likes the camper sales and opt to expand . This is their chance to review and decide is this somewhere we want to see this type of business developed . Mr. Sherwood stated he appreciates this , but also wants the Board to understand the business side of this application as well . Mr. Zeserson thanked Mr. Sherwood for coming in . Mr. Wertis stated he has a resolution he would like to present to the Board . Whereas, from time to time the Ulysses Town Board has reason to communicate with the Ulysses Planning Board, and Whereas, some such communications have only been verbally passed on to the Planning Board through Town Staff, and Whereas , verbal communication my be subject to the communicator' s interpretation of the Town Board ' s wishes , and Whereas, incorrect or multiple interpretations can lead to confusion as to what the Planning Board is supposed to do, and Whereas, the Planning Board members are only human, their meetings are public meetings, and they do not like to look stupid or unprepared in the public eye, Therefore be it resolved that the Ulysses Planning Board requests that all future communications from the Town Board be in writing in the form of a Resolution, or a letter from their Chair, in which the expectations of the Town Board are clearly expressed. Such communications shall be delivered to the Planning Board in a timely manner so as to enable the Planning Board to carry out their responsibilities to the public in accordance with the Planning Board ' s regular meeting schedule and without undue delay to the public involved. A discussion of the resolution ensued . The Board felt it would be better to put the request in a letter. They would like to be effective and have communication between the Town Board and Planning Board . The system creates confusion and interpretation. The liaison role from the Town Board was reviewed . The Board would appreciate timely and consistent information be relayed to the Planning Board . Mr. Wertis made the MOTION, Mr. Zeserson seconded . The vote on the Motion is as follows . Planning Board 8 08/21 /2007 Mr. Means Nay Mr. Porter Nay Ms . Schneider Nay Mr. Wertis Aye Mr. Zeserson Nay Mr. Zeserson stated he could draft a letter to the Town Board requesting the above information. The members agreed he should do this as the Chair of the Planning Board. They will send the letter first, and then send a resolution later if there are no results . The meeting was adjourned at 9 : 06 pm . Respectfully submitted, Robin Carlisle Peck Secretary 11 /04/07 II