HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-02-20 - PB TOWN OF ULYSSES
PLANNING BOARD
02/20/07
Approved 03/06/07
Present : Vice Chairperson Darien Simon , Planning Board Members : David Kerness ,
David Means, Rod Porter, Rebecca Schneider, John Wertis, Code Enforcement Officer Alex Rachun
Excused : Ken Zeserson
Applicants : Bridgid Beames , Stanley Beames , Dana Stafford, Steve Holzbaur, Adrienne Stearns,
George Breuhaus , Eileen Driscoll, Steven Engelman
Ms Simon stated the meeting was advertised as a Public Hearing for Namaste Montessori
Daycare, 1508 Trumansburg Road, Town of Ulysses . She informed the public the
purpose of the meeting is to received public comment for the project. She asked if any
correspondence regarding the project had been received .
Ms . Carlisle Peck stated no correspondence had been received .
Ms . Simon asked the Board if they would like to have the applicants provide a brief
summary of the project .
The Board agreed they were comfortable with the information they had received to date .
Ms . Simon asked the audience if they had any comments . The audience responded that no
comments would be offered . She stated they would hold the hearing open for 5 minutes
to allow time for any comments .
Ms . Simon closed the Public Hearing at 7 : 40 pm .
Ms . Simon asked the Board if they were comfortable with the project.
Ms . Schneider stated they had not received any public comment, the only concern she
had is pending approval with the associated agencies , i . e . DOH for the septic system . If
there is a major change would they reevaluate, as long as it is reflected in the resolution
she is comfortable .
Ms . Wertis stated he would be happy to move forward .
Mr. Means stated he had no problems regarding the project .
Mr. Porter stated he was satisfied .
Mr. Kerness stated he was comfortable making a decision .
Ms . Simon asked if any member would like to make the motion .
Mr. Rachun asked for clarification since he would be issuing the permit he would like to
know what is considered a major change .
Ms . Schneider replied they have a smaller septic tank that DOH has stated they need to
upgrade . She is concerned if there is a major change regarding the leech fields,
stormwater management etc . would this project come back to the Board .
Mr. Rachun stated there are thresholds that would be triggered and DOH would evaluate
that .
Mr. Porter stated if they have to put in a whole new septic system it still would not
concern the Board . This is governed by DOH and is regulated by them .
Planning Board Mtg. 2
02/20/2007
Mr. Rachun stated if they look at it using stormwater the applicants would have to move
over an acre of land and that would not happen. In an uncoordinated review under SEQR
the DOH is obligated to maintain DEC guidelines . They have the final say and will
evaluate where the buildings are, property lines, wells and septic on their property as well
as the adjoining property. They have a design professional that will review this . He does
not think they will need a SPDES permit even with a larger septic system .
Ms . Schneider stated she was comfortable with this and does not need the contingency of
requiring major changes the project be returned in the resolution.
The motion was made as follows :
TOWN OF ULYSSES
PLANNING BOARD
RESOLUTION NO. 2007-003
Namaste Montessori Site Plan Approval
Tax Parcel No. 33-5-3 . 3
1608 Trumansburg Road
Town of Ulysses, New York
Planning Board, February 20, 2007
MOTION made by Ms . Schneider, seconded by Mr. Means ,
WHEREAS , the Town of Ulysses Planning Board has reviewed the application for Namaste
Montessori Daycare (Bridgid and Stanley Beames) to be located at 1608 Trumansburg Road, and
WHEREAS , . the application has been deemed complete and a legal, conforming use within a B1
district per Town of Ulysses Zoning Law (August 2005 ) , the SEQR done 02/06/07 was
completed with no negative impact,
WHEREAS , a Public Hearing held February 20 , 2007 , 7 : 30 pm, Town of Ulysses Town Hall ,
10 Elm Street, Trumansburg, NY to receive public input resulting in no public comment nor any
written correspondence relative to the project.
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, the Town of Ulysses approved the Site Plan
application for Namaste Montessori Daycare (Bridgid and Stanley Beames) , 1608 Trumansburg
Road, Town of Ulysses (Tax Parcel 33 - 5 -3 . 3 ) as presented, it is the understanding the Tompkins
County Department of Health is responsible for inspection and approval of changes to the septic
system on site .
The vote on the motion resulted as follows :
AYES : Mr. Means, Mr. Kerness , Mr. Porter, Ms . Schneider Ms . Simon , Mr. Wertis
NAYS : NONE
ABSENT : Mr. Zeserson
ABSTAINED : NONE
The vote on the motion WAS CARRIED unanimously.
Ms . Simon informed the public the next item on the agenda would be the Regional
Access application for Site Plan review . She asked if the members of the Board had any
questions .
Ms . Schneider stated at the last meeting they had requested additional information, they
° had received a map and she wondered if this is what the applicant had provided .
Mr. Breuhaus stated Mr. Coogan had contacted him and told him he would be providing
this to the members .
Ms . Schneider stated this document was really inadequate for stormwater, and it is very
hard to determine where the contour lines are . There are two creeks that run through the
property by the parking lot and these drain into Cayuga Lake. They would expect and
Planning Board Mtg . 3
02/20/2007
typically see the topographic on the Site Plan, where the buffer would be even if they are
impermanent the Town requires a 25 feet buffer.
Mr. Breuhaus stated they are shown on the Site Plan as ditches, they are not going near
where they are . Nothing they are developing is near the streams .
Mr. Wertis stated there is some confusion on the mapping, he asked if Mr. Breuhaus had
a copy, he provided a copy to Mr. Breuhaus and indicated the streams .
Mr. Breuhaus stated he has a survey from TG Miller ' s and it indicates a ditch but no
stream .
Ms . Schneider stated the Town requires a USGS 1 : 24 , 000 topographic quadrangles are
used as a base map to identify streams . She indicated the map provided by Mr. Coogan
was still poor but does illustrate the streams . She is unsure what he used for the base but
it is insufficient for their needs . They probably have enough room but it needs to be
designated on the Site Plan . The contours for the property need to be illustrated so they
can review it in comparison to the parking lots etc .
Mr. Breuhaus stated he had spoken to Mr. Coogan and he stated in his opinion he had
provided the information the Board would need to continue the review .
Mr. Porter stated that what Mr. Coogan would probably be sufficient to satisfy the
questions they had regarding the pond . But it does identify the streams on the map thus
they need to be reviewed .
Ms . Schneider stated her concern is the streams probably feed into the MS4 district which
the Town is now responsible for regulating. If they feed down into Cayuga Lake this
would be a problem .
Mr. Breuhaus stated Mr. Coogan stated it was only for impermanent streams .
Mr. Rachun stated the scale he was using he calculated it would be well over 25 feet from
the developed area. But it is difficult to be absolutely sure .
Mr. Breuhaus stated it is interesting because the survey indicates a ditch but not a stream .
Ms . Schneider stated that is the information they need, it would be difficult to obtain this
with the snow but they need the stream and elevation contour information on the Site
Plan.
Mr. Porter asked Mr. Rachun if there was any way they could get a better map from the
County.
Mr. Rachun stated the maps provided actually have the best information.
Mr. Wertis asked if there was a way they could have the information provided so they
could see the stream information in relationship to the buildings and development on the
Site Plan .
Mr. Engelman stated the stream which is also on their property was originally fed from a
seasonal pond on their property, it runs along the row of spruce trees and it heads due
East towards Cayuga Lake, it is more than 25 feet . It starts in a wetland North of their
house and runs East.
Ms . Schneider stated NYS has a GIS website that they could get the topographic map for
these two streams and it will state if they are permanent or impermanent . She will
determine if this is an MS4 district . If it is they have to be careful regarding runoff on this
property.
Mr. Breuhaus stated answers to a lot of their questions can be summarized in the letter he
is distributing.
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Planning Board Mtg . 4
02/20/2007
Ms . Simon suggested he go through the letter he distributed item by item .
Mr. Breuhaus stated Regional Access purchased a decibel meter and did the
measurements on Wednesday night which is their busiest night . Dana took readings head
on facing theitrucks, and behind is away from the refrigeration units . They took the
readings using various distances . Noting the readings distributed in the letter they meet
the decibel requirements . The readings behind the building were lower thus the building
does act as a buffer. They are looking at the trucks being parked away from the building
or move the panel trucks so this arrangement could be used as a mitigating factor. They
have started to get price quotes on the coolers , they have received a quote for a 30 x 135
ft. cooler. This would allow them to keep all the merchandise in the warehouse vs . the
trucks for cooling . It is a light industrial zones so there are no specified hours of
operation thus they could load early in the morning .
Mr. Wertis stated he was confused about the cooler, why is there a question as to why
they could or could not put in a cooler.
Mr. Breuhaus stated if they put in an addition of 10% they would have had to come in for
Site Plan Approval , one of the items that came up was truck noise thus now they are
looking into getting a cooler which would be an addition of 10% .
Mr. Wertis asked if as a rhetorical question why would they object, if it will help mitigate
the noise .
Mr. Breuhaus stated they were really not sure what would be available to them to
purchase and are finding it would be a workable plan but they are not sure what size they
will be going with to date .
Mr. Wertis stated so a big part of the question is the uncertainty and they would like to
move the plan along. He asked if they could come back or could the Board approve up to
a specific size ..
Mr. Breuhaus stated they could do that.
Ms . Schneider stated if they do this it would be a trade off that the trucks would not be
running at night .
Mr. Stafford stated with the nature of their business they could not guarantee this . The
reality is they fall within the code, if the cooler helps with the sound impact they are still
within their rights to run the trucks . They could not guarantee this 100% .
Mr. Holzbaur stated it would be unrealistic to state they would not run the trucks if
necessary, if the business expands they have to do what they have to do . They do not
want to run the cooler units and run the trucks for energy reasons as well . It is in their
best interest to not run both .
Ms . Schneider , stated she understands that they want to make sure the issue is dealt with.
One of the items they list is they could not have the trucks parked as they are they could
use the building as a buffer. This is something they could require as a factor to mitigate
the noise .
Mr. Breuhaus stated one of the problems is they did the readings on Wednesday and they
all know what happened on Wednesday. But they did use all the trucks for the readings
and they may riot have all the trucks running.
Ms . Driscoll stated she would like to state they are 100 feet from the property line not
175 feet, so she is not sure they meet the requirement.
Mr. Means stated he has a question on the newer hybrid units that can be run off 220
electric .
Planning Board Mtg . 5
02/20/2007
Mr. Stafford stated they run a lease operation and the hybrid units are extremely costly.
The life span of these units is not good, they buy second hand equipment or refurbished.
A big way they have been able to grow is using older equipment . A new refrig unit goes
for $45 ,000 . 00, a used trailer and refrig unit can be purchased for $ 10, 000 . 00-$ 15 , 000 . 00
which is a considerable savings . They are interested in considering possibilities but at this
point it would not be a realistic approach . One item he is concerned with is where should
the measurement ' s be taken to and from .
Mr. Rachun stated the boundary is at the property line, he would suggest it would be any
portion of that boundary.
Mr. Engelman stated it is not a complaint of the business , but it is becoming like a truck
stop , before it was a machine shop , Babcock ' s , 100 years before agricultural . Mr. Novarr
came in and opened the machine shop he stated if there were problems he would take
care of it and he did . Now he feels more adversarial , they are neighbors, if it was their
house and this business is coming in with 5 semi ' s and 4 trucks how would they feel .
Now they are looking at semi ' s parked and idling overnight . Their bedroom is in the back
o f the house, this is their property and they have been here for 18 years, it is not a matter
o f regulations but this is their house and they want to be good neighbors . It is not a matter
o f light industrial their house is light industrial now , they have made it clear for business
they have to do this . Put yourselves in this position would you want to see this, and what
would you want to see to make this happen. They are not getting younger and they will
have to sell in the future, the property value is diminishing . The road is getting busier and
they have trucks adding to the traffic flow . They have to be very careful pulling out onto
this road . He is asking the Board to consider what they can do to mitigate these
conditions .
Mr. Stafford stated he has been in the warehouse and up until 11 : 00 pm it is a major
traffic corridor and the noise inside the warehouse was immense . They are not a large
trucking company but it seems like they fit into the light industrial area well .
Mr. Breuhaus stated the stream comes into issue in mitigating the trucks, they bought a
decibel meter so they can do the readings . The problem they have is the refrig units sit
high on the trailers . If you look at the readings if you get something solid between the
truck and offended person it does buffer. He is not convinced a 10 foot fence looking like
Attica will help either. It is a lower frequency, that is where mounds help but to build up
to that point would be a problem . A mound with plantings would do the most sound
mitigation . It would have to be about the width of the parking lot and one of the problems
is it would have to slope down, it would end up making a channel between the mound
and the buildings . The Agway parcel cleared and made mounds that shield neighbors on
that site .
Ms . Schneider stated she likes the ideas however they still need the three pieces of
information requested previously. She would like to see the readings done on a day when
it is not snowing, the snowstorm acted as a buffer.
Mr. Stafford stated they would need a few days to get the site cleared .
Ms . Schneider clarified that they would be clearing snow not vegetation .
Mr. Kerness asked what the decibel level on the refrigeration unit would be .
Mr. Stafford stated they do not know as they do not have the unit, they do plan on
enclosing the cooler unit.
Ms . Simon asked if the specifications for the unit would list the decibel levels .
Mr. Porter stated that they need to be reasonably assured that the meet the specifications .
It is up to them to maintain these standards and if they do not they will have to make
modifications to be in compliance .
Planning Board Mtg. 6
02/20/2007
Mr. Wertis stated what he is hearing is they want to be good neighbors and that is
pleasing, but he cannot help but react to the Driscoll ' s questions in making sure there is
no sound etc . The Planning Board does have rules and regulations and they can only
require what the Zoning Ordinance states . They cannot change rules and regulations nor
legislate new zoning, they are bound by what is in the code. There appear to be a lot of
variables that will not be known until they live with it . Once that happens someone will
have to come, onto the site and measurements can be taken, if it is not in compliance they
would have to do something to fix it. It is his understanding that would be Mr. Rachun .
Mr. Rachun stated the Design Standards were put in the zoning law for specific reasons .
There is a lot of ambiguity and the Planning Board was reaching for them and had
nowhere to look in reviewing applications . They have Design Standards now, you have to
live by these standards, you have to have sound this level between these hours if not you
are not in compliance . They can mitigate all they can however if he comes onsite and
they are not in compliance then they will be issued a Notice of Violation issued .
Ms . Driscoll stated she appreciated that they have regulations but they have complained
about the band practice for over a year and Mr. Rachun has not come out and done
anything.
Mr. Rachun stated he did issue a Notice of Violation, if it has started up again it was not
brought to his attention. Mr. Curran informed Mr. Rachun the practices were being
discontinued .
Ms . Schneider asked if they applicants had a good understanding of what is needed .
Mr. Breuhaus asked if they needed to have a new survey.
Ms . Schneider stated she cannot require that if they can do an overlay with the
topographic indications on the Site Plan map to work from that would be sufficient .
Ms . Simon stated they need readings on a day when it is not snowy and other weather
conditions are, not buffering the sound. In addition, please measure the sound from
different points on the property line . She noted they used 4 trucks, she asked if this would
be the maximum trucks they would use.
Mr. Stafford stated he used 4 trucks as this is indicative, however he could bring all the
trucks onto the site and measure.
Ms . Simon asked regarding Mrs . Driscoll ' s comment if the measurements should be to
the house as well .
Mr. Porter stated the measurements should be to the property line .
Mr. Kerness stated he should position the trucks according to the position on the map .
He realizes they cannot get measurements for the cooler units .
•
Mr. Breuhaus mentioned they could flip flop the trailers for the delivery trucks, there are
different things they have looked at . The other item to consider is the sound in winter will
be different from the sound in summer.
Ms . Schneider stated once they have the data and know where the streams are and what
the refrigeration unit will be they can lay out the items that may help mitigate the
impacts . The could come back with a better design.
Mr. Breuhaus stated they may not but especially in the summer there is no guarantee they
would not load trucks overnight .
Mr. Stafford stated they want to follow guidelines but they could be flexible in adjusting
the parking spaces .
Mr. Means stated wind direction is another variable that cannot be factored in .
Planning Board Mtg. 7
02/20/2007
Mr. Wertis asked if there is any down side to the larger cooler.
Mr. Rachun stated when the original designer came in the original threshold was if they
did not change the footprint of the building they would not have to go through Site Plan .
Now that they are doing Site Plan he would strongly suggest they do what they need in
the Site Plan .
Mr. Means agreed with Mr. Rachun, it would alleviate the applicants from having to
come back.
Mr. Wertis asked the status of the Public Hearing.
Ms . Simon stated they had scheduled the Public Hearing for March 6 , 2007 .
Ms . Schneider asked when would they have the information .
Ms . Simon stated it would be helpful to have the information for the Public Hearing, they
essentially take comments that night, however the more they can provide to help with
concerns your neighbors have the better.
Ms . Schneider asked how that would effect them , it would be better to have the
information prior to the meeting.
Ms . Simon stated the purpose of the hearing is to obtain public comment . It would be
better to have the information to review prior but they do not have to make a decision that
night .
Mr. Porter stated they can leave the public hearing open if they Board feels they and the
public need additional time to review the plans and provide additional feedback .
Mr. Rachun stated typically the Board should have the information but they can receive
that information then review it after the hearing.
Ms . Simon asked if there were any additional comments , she listed the items still needed
from the applicants as :
a
1 . New set of decibel readings along the property boundary,
2 . Topographic maps showing the exact location of streams with contours,
preferably as an overlay on the Site Plan to relate to buildings, parking lots.
etc.
Ms . Simon suggested when they do the measurements they also do the readings from
between the buildings where the delivery trucks were originally planned to be . If they are
offering this as a buffer to mitigate it would be helpful to compare the two sets of
readings .
Mr. Stafford stated they could do this .
Ms . Stearns asked if they would receive a notice for the Public Hearing, she has not
received any information to date . She is concerned the mail be sent to the Cayuga Street
address vs . the Trumansburg Road address .
Mr. Rachun stated it was his understanding the notices had gone out, but the mailings
will go out within the legal time frame as well as the legal notice . The Public Hearing is
scheduled for March 7 , 2007 at 7 : 30 pm .
Mr. Porter suggested they members meet at 7 : 15pm to review any items received to date
prior to the Public Hearing.
Planning Board Mtg. 8
02/20/2007
Ms . Simon asked if the members would like to do this, the Board members agreed . She
advised the applicants the Board would be meeting at 7 : 15 pm and they are welcome to
attend to answer questions .
Mr. Means stated they still have minutes that need to be approved .
Ms . Carlisle Peck stated the minutes from 01 / 16/07 and 02/06/07 need to be approved .
Mr. Means made the MOTION to accept the minutes from 01 / 16/07 and 02/06/07 as
presented, Mr. Wertis seconded the MOTION. They vote was unanimous, MINUTES
APPROVED .
Mr. Wertis asked if the applicants would be posting the Public Hearing signs .
Mr. Rachun stated they would, he will clarify with Mr. Coogan that these will get posted .
Ms . Wertis made the motion adjourn, Mr. Means seconded the motion.
The meeting was adjourned at 9 : 02 pm .
Respectfully submitted,
Robin Carlisle Peck
02/26/07
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