HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-09-13-PB TOWN OF ULYSSES
PLANNING BOARD
09/13/05
Approved with Corrections 09/20/05
Present : Interim Chairperson David Tyler, Planning Board Members : Margot Chiuten,
Rose Hilbert, David Means, Rod Porter, Darien Simon , John Wertis . Code Enforcement
Officer Alex Rachun, Secretary Robin Carlisle Peck
Others in attendance : MCCl/PDD-Judith Cone, Cheryl Thompson, Architect .
Washington Street Partners-Joe Hucko-Principal, Bruce Poushter, Attorney, Matthew
Moore. West Hill Community Church-Cliff Morris-Pastor, Tom Chaffee-Building
Committee Chairperson, Cheryl Thompson, Architect. Falls Tavern-Fred Vanderzee,
Trumansburg Shursave-Jim Seafuse and Brett Seafuse .
A quorum is present at the meeting ; the meeting was called to order at 7 : 30pm by
Mr. Tyler.
Minutes :
The minutes of the August 18th meeting were presented . Mr. Porter requested the addition
of Mr. Porter heading the MCCl/PDD project as well as Mr. Tyler heading the West Hill
Community Church project be added .
Mr. Tyler submitted typographical errors ; it was noted that Ms . Simon ' s name had been
presented incorrectly and needs to be revised .
Mr. Wertis motioned to accept with corrections, seconded by Ms. Hilbert.
All in favor-Minutes approved.
MCCI/Judith Cone-
Mr. Wertis questioned if material from the Town Board had been received regarding action on
the PDD .
Mr. Porter stated the PDD was approved by the Town Board .
Mr. Rachun indicated Mr. Wilson drafted a legal description of the property-there is no physical
map for review.
Mr. Porter offered that Ms . Cone has property located at 3520 Krums Corners Road . She would
like to do an expansion of her Computer Research and Development business that is located a 1/4
mile from her home . The addition on the building now occupied by the business on this property
would allow a maximum of 30 new employees to be hired . She applied for and was granted a
PDD to allow this . The total acreage involved is 22 . 84 acres ; 3 acres are designated for
Residential/Business and the remaining 19 . 84 acres will be designated as Agricultural-these
conditions are incorporated as terms of the PDD .
Mr. Rachun indicated the application is complete and all drawings with applicable revisions have
been received ; a Public Hearing is the next procedure necessary.
Mr. Tyler questioned which Zoning Ordinance would be required for this project.
Mr. Rachun informed them that the date of the application would be the deciding factor.
Ms . Cone ' s COMPLETED application was received prior to the Adoption of the Zoning
Ordinance (August 30, 2005) thus the OLD ZONING ORDINANCE would be in effect.
Mr. Rachun will verify this with Mr. Wilson.
Mr. Porter requested additional questions from the members-none were indicated .
Mr. Porter offered the Public Hearing could be scheduled for September 27th, 2005 at 8 : 00pm for
MCCl/Judith Cone . Ms . Hilbert requested the Planning Board meet at 7 : 30pm .
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Mr. Tyler informed Ms . Cone she will need to give a historical perspective as well as the future
plans at the Public Hearing.
Ms. Hilbert made the motion to schedule a Public Hearing, seconded by Mr. Wertis.
All in favor-motion carried.
Washington Street Partners-
Introductions- Mr. Tyler requested all in attendance introduce themselves with their positions .
Ms . Hilbert and Mr. Tyler indicated that they are Ulysses Planning Board members with dual
positions in the Village of Trumansburg; Ms . Hilbert is a Village Trustee and Mr. Tyler is the
Village Attorney. Mr. Tyler wanted to disclose this and inquired if the applicants have any
objection, the applicants indicated they did not have an issue with this .
Mr. Tyler indicated that Mr. Means is the appointed head of the project and is the most familiar
with this thus he would be turning this portion of the meeting over to him .
Mr. Means stated that he has met with Mr. Rachun who had been working with Mr. Moore to get
the paperwork together for a Site Plan Review . Mr. Means indicated that upon review items have
been found that still need to be done. The water and sewer plans. have issues , there are concerns
with the traffic patterns-he understands the study would be given to DOT for approval, there are
questions on signs, as well as lighting. He offered that the Board would like to evaluate with
them all of the items needed prior to Site Plan Review to alleviate problems later down the line .
Mr. Means requested from the other members any comments or questions they have .
Ms . Chiuten requested a traffic pattern study be done especially with the drive thru business
anticipated at this site .
Mr. Hucko indicated that they had just received that day the study from their engineer and it had
been sent to DOT .
Ms . Chiuten indicated she had a question on the stormwater discharge it indicates they are not
discharging into a 303d however the Cayuga Lake Watershed is a 303d .
Mr. Hucko advised he does not have the answer however if this is the case they will have to deal
with it as is appropriate. He will consult with their Environmental Engineer to determine this .
Ms . Chiuten requested the Planning Board would like a full drainage plan with locations of catch
basins and where the outlets would be ; there is drainage to Taughannock Creek which discharges
to Cayuga Lake . The other option would be to send their drainage to the DOT swale on 96 which
also requires approval from DOT .
Mr. Hucko stated that it is part of DOT to require drainage so this study would be done ;
they are anticipating draining to the DOT drainage swale.
Ms . Chiuten stated that the only other concer she had was the photometric plan submitted;
it indicates that there is . 1 offsite-she would prefer it be brought down to 0 to prevent trespass .
Mr. Hucko indicated that they would address the photometrics to have them be acceptable .
Mr. Tyler asked who currently owns the property.
Mr. Hucko stated it is owned by Mr. Bill Auble ; they have a contract to purchase .
Mr. Rachun informed Mr. Hucko this should be indicated on Part 1 of the Environmental
Assessment form as the Owner of Record .
Mr. Tyler asked if Mr. Auble has given any written confirmation that Mr. Hucko is authorized to
be before the Planning Board for this project on his property.
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Mr. Poushter stated they can provide this to the Board .
Mr. Means indicated there were 50 parking spaces for 14,000 sq . ft. building; he is concerned
this will not satisfy the zoning regulations .
Mr. Tyler asked which Zoning Ordinance this would fall into . (the old or the new)
Mr. Rachun stated that since the application is not complete this would fall in the
new Zoning Ordinance (August 30 , 2005 ) . Unfortunately, the document has been sent to the
printer but the copies are not available ; when they are he will give a copy to the applicants . He
will verify this with Town Attorney, Bruce Wilson, however the Washington Street Projects will
follow the NEW ZONING ORDINANCE (August 30, 2005 )
Ms . Chiuten questioned where the SEQR process is .
Mr. Rachun indicated that the Long Form has been completed but the drainage and traffic issues
will impact these thus Board will have to review upon completion .
Mr. Tyler indicated the Site Plan he has is not dated .
Mr. Rachun stated that they are drafts as there is no engineering stamp or date. He
informed Mr. Hucko they would need to include the well location and the septic location on the
dated and stamped plans .
Mr. Hucko stated that due to being denied water by the Village of Trumansburg, they have
arranged an easement over a portion of a contiguous parcel along the southern edge of the main
parcel toward Rabbit Run Road . They hope to locate the well in this portion of land .
Ms . Chiuten asked if it would be possible to have the Site Plan put on the survey.
Mr. Hucko informed the Board this would be possible . He displayed the survey map
indicating they are not purchasing the whole lot . He illustrated the area they would be
purchasing.
Mr. Means asked if there is an expansion area on the parcel for septic .
Mr. Hucko stated yes they have done perk tests individually; they sized it for expansion with the
results being pretty good .
Mr. Tyler asked what type of retail would be planned for this property.
Mr. Hucko indicated they have a client that would be the drugstore; they have requested the
ability to put a gas island with a sub tenant .
Mr. Tyler stated that one of the issues is water; the Shursave went in across the street without a
public water source . This became a problem later on possibly resulting in being shut down due to
water.
Mr. Seafuse offered that what had happened was the well quality did not pass as the state
increased their water quality levels . They hydro -fractured the well and were purchasing water for
cooking. After 8+ years of applying for water through the Village it was approved by a 3 -2 vote
yet was contingent on paying for attorney fees, installing/expanding the water line, he is charged
2x the rate etc .
Mr. Vanderzee offered that he is on the other side of the fairgrounds and he has two wells that
are used and yet still has issues with water.
Mr. Hucko asked the depth of the wells .
Mr. Seafuse indicated his was 200 feet, and Mr. Vanderzee indicated his was 138 feet.
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Mr. Hucko indicated that they would like to make it work they will drill their well test and see
what results- it is a challenge . Mr. Hucko offered as an aside that there is currently a small line
that runs to this property, there is a meter and they are being charged by the Village .
Mr. Seafuse offered that he believed this is a line Mr. Auble ran himself.
Mr. Tyler stated that a water district is required now vs . when Mr. Auble ran this line .
Mr. Means asked if any additional information is required from other members or the applicants .
Mr. Tyler stated that since this is the first appearance a "sketch plan conference", would they be
willing to give an outline, the more details the better. What do they have in mind, what have they
done- i . e . they have indicated water is an issue . Would this be a deciding factor.
Mr. Hucko offered that they would have due diligence on the water. They would continue to
meet with the County Health Department with additional information being provided . It was his
understanding that water depth/quality is approved by the Health Department.
Mr. Tyler stated this is true; but he is asking if they do not get anything that meets their needs,
would they wait to satisfy their needs before continuing.
Mr. Hucko stated no they plan to continue, water is an issue but so is Site Plan Review .
There are variables as far as depth and they may run in their favor.
Mr. Tyler asked if they find they yield quality but not quantity what would happen .
Mr. Hucko offered that he could appreciate where Mr. Tyler is coming from but he could say the
same thing about the curb cuts, or the septic ; just as if the Site Plan is not approved . They are all
components contingent on each other.
Mr. Tyler stated they cannot review for Site Plan if they do not know how the property is going
to be developed ; where the services are going to be . We need something fairly concrete-not when
we get to Site Plan we will get the water, etc .
Mr. Hucko indicated he does not want to seem vague but they have land that runs to
Rabbit Run Road and they feel fairly confident they will find water- at what cost and what depth
is the questions . They need to go to DOT for curb cuts, the Site Plan in front is what they want
approved if variables change they could review their position.
Mr. Rachun offered that one of the Site Plan requirements is the location/design of water and
sewage facilities . They should be on the map and concrete even though it is Environmental
Health that approves permitting. The general area indicating the well but the specifics of the
septic location would need to be indicated.
Ms . Chiuten asked if they could take it from the other end and get the pressure/flow demands of
the three tenants .
Mr. Hucko replied there would be one tenant with two sub tenants, but the gas station is part of
the primary candidate . (tenant?)
Ms . Chiuten stated that from the pictures presented it was obvious that one of the tenants would
have a higher water demand.
Ms. Hilbert stated that the information is in the SEQR application ; she referenced the application
as stating the Construction effort involves for a new Kinney Drugstore, and an attached
McDonald ' s restaurant along NYS Route 96 in the Town of Ulysses . A petroleum dispensing
station would be immediately adjacent.
Mr. Hucko stated he is not trying to be evasive, but their contract is with Kinney Drugstore they
will be doing the building and they would have a sub-contract . Their firm and the drugstore firm
does not have a firm contract and he cannot represent that .
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Ms Chiuten stated irregardless if it is McDonald ' s or Burger King they are planning on a food
establishment to be reviewed within this project.
Mr. Hucko stated yes that is what they are sizing the septic for and what they would be looking
for when they evaluate the water.
Ms . Hilbert stated when we review we would be reviewing it on the requirements for a drugstore,
restaurant and gas station.
Mr. Hucko stated this is correct and when they requested the traffic study those were
incorporated as well .
Mr. Tyler stated then Washington Street Partners will be the owner, Kinney the primary and
master tenant for their drugstore with the other two stores
Mr. Hucko said this is true but they may not opt to sublet the other spaces, in which case they
still build the shell of the building.
Mr. Tyler asked how they would get the traffic study if they did not list the type of businesses in
the project .
Ms . Chiuten offered that they would list the worst case scenario .
Mr. Hucko agreed and stated that this is what they incorporated into the traffic study.
Mr. Tyler stated then this is what they have to evaluate on ; he was having a problem with what
were they looking at. We are looking at a drugstore with two sub-tenants which initially you
indicated you were not sure what they would be — but now it is appearing you are asking for Site
Plan approval of a drugstore, gas station and fast food establishment.
Mr. Hucko stated this is correct .
Ms . Hilbert indicated this is in writing on the SEQR is this enough for the Board to base its
decision on.
Mr. Rachun stated it should be in the information required in 3 . 4 . 4 which he believes they will
fall under-they would have to state the project .
Mr. Means stated that Mr. Rachun is the expert and he knows what we have to do and he would
like to know if Mr. Rachun is comfortable with the information at hand .
Mr. Tyler stated his feeling is if they have a site plan they need to know the type of business as
well as the square footage .
Ms . Chiuten indicated this information is in the packets .
Mr. Hucko asked if there is a special permit for a drive thru .
Mr. Rachun stated yes there is a permit required by the Board of Zoning Appeals under the
Zoning Ordinance (August 30, 2005 ) .
Mr. Hucko stated that they want to do a nice project and are not trying to be evasive. But the
Planning Board is asking for absolute questions but he does not have absolute signed agreements
to give them- he would like to get this site plan approved . He informed the board they have
worked with other municipalities and every one is different. They do not know the answers here ;
but there are a lot of municipalities that you bring a plan for commercial retail use in- no special
permits required, X Y Z tenants and they get the approval/validation . There are other locales that
have a mandate or special permits for any drive thru such as banks or restaurant and they have to
be more specific . He stated he does not know if he agrees with Mr. Tyler, respectfully, that
absolutely they have to tell you everything that would be going there, we are not trying to be
evasive, but he cannot tell you absolutely-because he does not have final arrangements .
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Mr. Porter offered that the Board evaluates on what is presented and if the project changes then
they would have to come back to the Board . So , what they are proposing is a gas station,
drugstore and fast food and it should be evaluated on that.
Mr. Hucko stated he does not want to debate but if he changes it from a drugstore to a traditional
retail store why would he have to come back.
Ms . Chiuten indicated it would change the traffic pattern or had an impact on other components .
Mr. Rachun stated there would be instances where he would not have to come back.
Mr. Means asked if he envisions the project going forward without water.
Mr. Hucko stated that there is some potential it could .
Ms . Chiuten asked if they were still in sketch plan .
Mr. Hucko asked what sketch plan is .
Mr. Rachun stated it is the initial meeting to get everything together to request additional
information. He had asked for additional information on signage, Steve Mabee is working on
discharge, they have Notice of Intent and the SEQR. What is really needed is the reply from
DOT . They would like to have the Site Plan on the survey map .
Mr. Hucko stated they will get the DOT reply and can revise the map .
Mr. Tyler asked about the pole barn on the adjacent property.
Mr. Hucko replied part of the barn had been demolished .
Mr. Rachun indicated the set back for commercial is 15 feet, thus this might be a concern.
Mr. Hucko stated that the contract specifically states that any setback/requirements necessary
would be met .
Mr. Means asked if it would be premature to be concerned with the parking spaces for the size of
the buildings .
Mr. Tyler inquired how they decided on the parking represented on the site plan .
Mr. Hucko asked if the Board had latitude in granting parking modifications .
Mr. Means stated 70 spaces seemed more realistic .
Mr. Rachun indicated that most of the business would be drive thru .
Ms Hilbert asked when they could get a copy of the new Zoning Ordinance . Just looking at the
signs on the picture they appear larger then what is allowed and she would like to have these
regulations given to them .
Mr. Porter asked how the entrance on the North side is adjacent to the entrance of the Shursave .
Mr. Tyler indicated it is offset about the width of the driveway to the South ; the North lane of the
project would be facing the South lane of the Shursave-staggered across from each other.
Ms . Hilbert asked if DOT would be responsible for all of these issues .
Mr. Rachun indicated DOT have all the discretionary power.
Ms . Hilbert asked if they still have the discussion on how it relates to other businesses,
properties and home and how it relates to character.
Mr. Rachun asked if she was referring to driveway cut or traffic flow .
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Ms . Hilbert stated in terms of the project itself, how it relates to the business across,
the one next to it (storage place) , the fairgrounds and the homes in the area.
Mr. Rachun stated under the parameters of the Site Plan they would be required to review for
these areas .
Mr. Tyler indicated that if Shursave is generating traffic then yes , they are concerned with public
health and safety of the community.
Ms . Chiuten offered that DOT driveway manual states there are minimum distances between
driveways ; obviously the driveways should be aligned for safety reasons .
Mr. Hucko offered that the North driveway would be for ingress they would anticipate advising
it as such that it could truly only accommodate South bound traffic .
Mr. Tyler asked why they would have this North entrance at all if they could check with their
engineer; even though the DOT will address this as well . This is a fairly sophisticated project and
the Board does realize they may need professional help in evaluating this .
Mr. Rachun would like to make the Board aware there will be an enormous landscaping change.
The major trees will go and there will be plantings-but the site will be dramatically altered .
Ms . Hilbert asked if the trees alongside the fairgrounds are on this property or the fairgrounds .
She would like to see these remain-they are very good buffers .
Mr. Tyler asked why they have such a small piece of property with very intense use. They could
go to top of the bank and give themselves significantly more lot.
Mr. Hucko stated this is what the seller was willing to sell to them .
Mr. Tyler asked the Board if they would like to prepare a list of items to have prepared for
review .
Discussion resulted in the following items to be submitted to the Board by Washington
Street Partners
1 . Traffic study/DOT reply
2 . Drainage Plan/ SPDES Permit
3 . Topographical Map/Site Plan Grading Plan and Structure elevations
4. Details on lighting and shielding
5. Details on signs
6. Note of Authorization from Mr. Auble
Mr. Hucko asked when the next meeting would be, when they would want the information back
to the Board .
Mr. Tyler advised that the next meeting would be September 20 for a working meeting.
He advised Mr. Hucko that it would be a working meeting but they would be welcome to attend .
He asked what would be a reasonable expectation to gather the necessary items .
Mr. Rachun offered that when they get the reply from DOT could they schedule a meeting within
a week, the members stated this was sensible .
Mr. Hucko offered that DOT dances to a different drummer and they have control over the other
items, they will copy the Board when they submit items to DOT. But he would respectfully
request that we satisfy the requirements and come before the Board, what he would be hopeful is
that they may not receive final approval but could get conceptual approval .
Mr. Tyler stated the entire Site Plan may change; he does not want to schedule a Public Hearing
until it is on paper.
Mr. Porter indicated that what DOT decided could have a significant impact.
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Mr. Tyler does not want the Board to have to review this multiple times . This project is more
involved and he would like to wait until the DOT items come in. Mr. Tyler asked Mr. Hucko if
the applicant would consent to holding scheduling the Public Hearing until the DOT report was
in hand.
Mr. Hucko indicated his consent .
Ms . Hilbert indicated that as items come in they could continue to meet .
Mr. Porter stated this would be helpful as more questions may come up as they review the
additional information; but as far as scheduling Site Plan or a Public Hearing it is too early.
Mr. Tyler stated they could not deem this complete until the DOT information is in .
Mr. Poushter offered that maybe they could get close enough to have a commitment from them
so we are pretty sure conceptual this is how it is going to be, then the final approval would come
later.
Mr. Tyler stated that they have a working meeting next week; then further work after the. Public
Hearing on September 27`" ; at that point they could return for a brief meeting prior to the
scheduling the Public Hearing.
Mr. Hucko stated he appreciated that .
Ms . Chiuten asked if the traffic study included a level of service analysis including the Shursave .
Mr. Hucko stated he just received it today and he does believe it was done ; it included car counts
and cars turning into the Shursave, there was observation done on site .
Mr. Rachun informed the members that due to Mr. Hucko requesting a water district the
information was submitted to the agencies, one of which was DOT . The DOT came back and
requested the traffic study.
Mr. Tyler restated his concern the Board would need professional help in evaluating this
application.
Mr. Rachun stated he has submitted the Site Plan to a consultant to receive a cost of the analysis .
They would review whatever the Board requests but initially he asked them to consider
stormwater and traffic flow , Environmental Health has jurisdiction over the water and sewer.
West Hill Community Church
Mr. Tyler requested all in attendance introduce themselves .
Mr. Rachun stated that this application came in for a church located on the corner of Van Dorns
Road and Iradell Road, geographically located across from the new water tower. The site plan
had changed over a period of time mainly based on their ability to get water from
the town. So , they brought the church further up on the plan to tap into the town water.
Mr. Tyler asked if Mr. Rachun would deem the application complete .
Mr. Rachun indicated he had a meeting with Ms . Thompson yesterday and there were a couple
issues that she can address ; mainly concerning the scope of the project and the impacts that exist
if certain thresholds are crossed .
Mr. Tyler inquired which ordinance would this project fall under.
Mr. Rachun stated that it would be considered under the OLD ORDINANCE . He will verify this
information with Mr. Wilson.
Ms . Thompson informed the members West Hill Community Church wish to build a very simple
building. The dimensions are on the plan, it is 126 x 52 , the Sanctuary at the East end facing Van
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Dorns Road which is indicated by a circular window on the building plan . She would like to
offer a new copy of the site elevations she brought with her. These show the front of the building
and the peak of the roof is lowered by 5 feet. They have chosen to use shingled roofing vs . metal
roofing. The siding would be stucco ; the color would be light-white, off white or
light green-the color would be similar to the character of the neighborhood . She added two more
drawings of the elevations .
Mr. Wertis asked why the change in the roof' s pitch .
Mr. Chaffee stated that the building committee chose to go with the 6- 12 , 3 - 12 inside because it
would be easier to shingle . The color would be gray or black but they plan on using architectural
shingles .
Mr. Tyler commented that the maximum traffic would be 30 cars in one hour, he cannot see a
reason for a traffic study. He requested Mr. Rachun explain the stormwater situation involved .
Ms . Thompson and Mr. Chaffee discussed this ; the building and the parking lot
are only . 5 acres . She stated Mr. Chaffee plans to do one part at a time and keeping the soil
scraped off the site to backfill the lower end .
Mr. Chaffee stated he plans on marking out 208 x 208 and will not go over that amount.
The extra expense and penalties involved in going over the acre of disturbed soil would be
avoided with his plan .
Ms . Thompson asked if she still has to do the SEQR form .
Mr. Rachun indicated yes per Planning Board requirements .
Ms . Thompson indicated that after reviewing the form she had a better understanding and would
like to submit a new form for consideration. The major changes are in acreage, and is the soil
leaving the site or not, she also learned that there is solid waste-there aren ' t major changes just
minor changes due to her interpretation of the form .
Mr. Tyler suggested that she would like to amend the SEQR previously submitted.
Ms . Thompson confirmed this and the other members agreed this was acceptable .
Ms . Thompson provided amended copies to the members .
Mr. Chaffee advised the members regarding the outside of the building they would be using
stucco because they would be using insulated concrete forms . They have discussed the
possibility that they may brick halfway to the window heights to dress it up if finances allow it .
Mr. Tyler asked if they would like to have this approved with the application. He advised Mr.
Chaffee that during the public hearing this should be presented so it is covered if they are able to
do it vs. having to come back to the Board .
Ms . Thompson indicated on the plans there is a port to cover the cars when they come in;
it shows a peak on the south base that uses building materials consistent with the neighborhood .
Next to the port is a 30 car parking lot that will be gravel . The driveway goes to Van Dons Road
which has already been checked by the Highway Superintendent-the culvert has been installed .
There will be a sign and the trees planted .
Ms . Hilbert asked if they have the specifications on the sign .
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Ms . Thompson indicated they are on the plan and will be 5x5 . There is currently a sign on Van
Dorns Road they will have a second sign on Iradell Road .
Mr. Rachun advised he will check the ordinance for the allowable size of signs.
Ms . Hilbert asked about the lighting involved on the signs or building.
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Ms . Thompson advised there is no lighting on the sign ' s, there is lighting on the driveway and
the covered entry. They plan on using metal halide lamps nothing big, no plans to use at night-
just for entry in and out of the building.
Ms . Hilbert asked if they would have lights in the parking lots .
Ms . Thompson stated they had not planned on them .
Mr. Rachun asked if they planned on having afternoon/evening classes in the Winter months it
can get dark by 4 : 00pm ; the parking lot could be dark and dangerous .
Mr. Moths stated they do .
Mr. Tyler indicated they may want to give this some thought .
Mr. Chaffee informed them that he had considered lights that would come on at night
automatically with low wattage .
Ms . Hilbert stated she would prefer they be turned off Motion detectors would be fine but the
people would have to get out of the car and approach the building before the lights come on
perhaps one on a switch that could be turned on for the event.
Mr. Porter advised against motion detector lights in a parking lot due to dogs and deer etc that
would activate the mechanism .
Mr. Tyler asked about the septic and water.
Mr. Chaffee indicated the septic is North of the building the water is Town water. Mr. Eric Bond
had called him and said it is very basic for the water-it would be similar to residential and the
mechanical room they have will work for what they need.
Ms . Hilbert asked Mr. Morris what activities would be occurring at the Church. She knows what
preschool is and classrooms but is it a school .
Mr. Morris responded that there would not be a school . Most of the activities are on a weekly
basis- Sunday Services, Wednesday night prayer group/bible study; eventually one night a week
a youth group such as AWANA would be scheduled .
Ms . Hilbert stated so this is not educational but Sunday school education.
Mr. Morris affirmed this, someday way down the road that may be an option.
Ms . Hilbert inquired if anyone would be living in the Church, like the Pastor. What would the
kitchen be used for.
Mr. Chaffee/Mr. Morris offered they would be using it for Fellowship meals-warming up food,
basic refrigeration, washing dishes, conventional stove.
Mr. Means asked if expansion of the parking lot were necessary where would it go .
Mr. Chaffee indicated they own 38 acres and would go up towards Iradell Rd, the original plan
was for 150-but they are only running with 50-60 people so decided to go with 50 spaces .
Mr. Tyler credited them with being foresighted in their plans .
Ms . Hilbert commented on the expansion of the building noted on the plans .
Mr. Morris stated they could never envision needing to build a huge complex on this site, if
needed they would run multiple services . They would use it more times vs . huge expansion.
Mr. Tyler asked what the seating capacity is .
Mr. Chaffee stated there are no pews it would removable seating and the seating capacity would
be 120-200 .
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Mr. Tyler asked for additional comments/questions .
Ms. Hilbert asked for the formal hearing what kind of trees deciduous it says evergreens and
fruit trees .
Mr. Rachun offered they may want to bring a rendition of the sign, how high it would be .
Ms . Thompson advised they would send a letter about Parking lot lights, brick on the bottom and
the signs .
Mr. Porter advised that for the parking lot they should have designated what type and wattage.
Mr. Tyler indicated light pollution would be evaluated .
Mr. Means asked if there have been any comments from the neighbors .
Mr. Chaffee indicated the man across the street thought it was a wonderful thing,
offered the use of his house during building.
Ms . Thompson showed a description of metal halide lamps she had been looking into .
Ms . Chiuten advised this would have to be mounted on a pole, and it would project out so she
would advise on ones that project down/shielded.
Mr. Tyler offered the Public Hearing could be scheduled for September 27th , 2005 at
8 : 30 pm for West Hill Community Church.
Mr. Wertis made the motion to schedule a Public Hearing, seconded by Mr. Means.
All in favor-motion carried.
Mr. Wertis asked Mr. Rachun when the new Zoning Ordinance would be available
from Kinko ' s .
Mr. Rachun indicated that the new Zoning Ordinance (August 30, 2005) had been approved by
the State and had been sent to Kinko ' s for printing but he had not been given a definite answer
when it would be available . He would check with Ms . Georgia to try and get copies to all
necessary individuals .
Mr. Porter reiterated that it is very important to get the clarification from Mr. Wilson
as to which Ordinance each project would be reviewed.
Mr. Rachun indicated he appreciates this ; he has dealt with this under a three time
Building Code change- the legal requirement is when there is a complete document.
Mr. Tyler stated the next meeting is September 20th at 7 : 30pm for a working session.
Motion to adjourn made by Mr. Porter, seconded by Ms . Chiuten. Voted unanimously.
Meeting adjourned at 10 : 00 pm .
Respectfully submitted,
Robin Carlisle Peck
C Secretary
TOWN OF ULYSSES
REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING
SEPTEMBER 13 , 2005
PRESENT: Supervisor Doug Austic, Town Councilpeople Lee Scott, Robert Weatherby;
Roxanne Marino and Don Ellis ; Town Clerk Marsha Georgia; Highway Superintendent
James Meeker; Deputy Supervisor Richard Coogan ; Attorney Bruce Wilson.
Others Present : Ruth Kahn, Christine Springer and Fred Vanderzee
Supervisor Austic called the meeting to order at 7 : 30 pm, and led those assembled in the
Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America.
APPROVAL OF CLAIMS
Mr. Austic said that before the vouchers can be approved for payment a couple of
accounts need to be addressed. Account #A1620 . 4 in the amount of $ 1811 . 78 and
A5132 . 4 in the amount of $ 183 . 55 is or will be overdrawn. Mr. Austic is suggesting
transferring $2500 to each account to cover these shortages from A1990 .4 . Mr. Scott
moved, seconded by Mr. Ellis to authorize Supervisor Austic to transfer $2500 to account
#A1620.4 and $2500 to account #A5132 .4 from account A1990 . 4 (contingency)
Mr. Austic aye
Mr. Scott aye
Mr. Weatherby aye
Ms . Marino aye
Mr. Ellis aye
Adopted.
Mr. Ellis moved, seconded by Mr. Scott approve the previous examined vouchers # 405
through 460 in the amount of $29,472 . 83 .
Mr. Austic aye
Mr. Scott aye
Mr. Weatherby aye
Ms . Marino aye
Mr. Ellis aye
Adopted.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Minutes were distributed late to the Board members so no one had any time to review.
They also had not been edited. The Board tabled the minutes until the next Regular
Town Board meeting.
REPORTS OF REPRESENTATIVES
Peter Penniman, Tompkins County Board Representative — absent.
Alex Rachun, Code Enforcement Officer — Mr. Rachun was absent but he previously
distributed his monthly report to the Board members .
Trumansburg Fire Department — no one in attendance .
Planning Board Chairman — attending Planning Board Meeting.
Regular Town Board 2
09/ 13 /2005
Other
Justice Christine Springer addressed the Town Board with a request from the Court
Office to increase their budget by $2000 to cover the cost of Court Security. Ms.
Springer said that in the past the Court has been having a Court Officer attend court,
which is very important in the Judges estimation. The Court budget has fallen short for
the remainder of the year and is requested that this be covered. Court officers are paid
$20 - $30 per hour (or $ 60 — $ 70 per session) .
Ms . Springer said that there is rumor that a court officer may be mandated by the State in
the very near future and the other rumor is that the State may pick up the cost . Judge
Rector is attending a meeting in Syracuse where he may find our more about this .
The Judges will work on their 2006 budget and present that to the Board .
Mr. Austic stated that there is over $ 700 in the court account, which should cover court
security for the next month or so .
The Board gave permission to Judge Springer to resume hiring court security.
TOWN REPORTS
Highway Superintendent James Meeker reported that the highway crew worked on a
box culvert on Maplewood, working on Brook Road getting it ready to pave, stone and
oiled Reynolds Road and Curry Road and helped the Town of Enfield doing some of
their paving. The crew also installed a new culvert pipe for the Church property on
VanDorns Corners Road.
Mr. Austic asked Mr. Meeker what his plan was for the Cold Springs Road bridge? Mr.
Meeker said that he has met with the salesman and are waiting for the plans on the steel I
beams so that he can get started on the bridge . He hopes they can get started before the
next board meeting. Tompkins County Highway Department was working on the bridge
on Durling Road .
Mr. Meeker said that the Town is responsible for the asphalt for to the approach and
railings if the bridge is less than 25 feet the Town would also pave the deck .
Code Enforcement Officer, Alex Rachun previously distributed his monthly report to
the Board . Mr. Rachun is attending the Planning Board meeting tonight
Town Clerk Marsha Georgia reported that the total fees collected for the month of
August were $ 6 , 820 . 50 . Ms . Georgia paid $ 934 . to the Supervisor for monthly fees, $955
for water fees and sent $4632 . to NYS DEC .
Ms . Georgia said that when she was transcribing the special Town Board Meeting of
August 30, 2005 she found that a few minor corrections had not been made in the final
draft of the Zoning Law. Ms . Georgia explained what minor changes have to be made .
Ms . Georgia said that these could be corrected and sent on to the Secretary of State as
technical corrections .
Mr. Wilson said the Town passed what they passed, which was the accurate version; we
filed something that was inaccurate so a corrected version has to be filed . It does not
require any action by the Town Board.
Mr. Ellis asked if the State has acknowledged receipt of the Law.
Ms . Georgia said that she has not had notification from the State that they have received
the Zoning Law.
Regular Town Board 3
09/ 13/2005
Ms . Marino wanted clarification on what could be changed in the Law. For example Mr.
Rachun had brought up that for the maximum size for free standing signs, the height was
not addressed. Ms . Marino asked if documentation was found that the Board had
addressed that at an early date can that be put back in or would the Board have to
completely amend the Law, have the public hearing etc .
Mr. Wilson said that the Board had a draft in front of them on August 30, 2005 . that draft
plus the changes that took place on that evening is the Law. If it was not changed at that
meeting than it is not part of the Law . If any changes in the future need to be made it
would be an amendment to the Law and everything that was done for this Law would
have to be followed for amending the Law, i . e. , public hearing, SEQR, 239 l&m request
and filing with the Secretary of State .
The general consensus was to have Mr. Rachun and others read through and keep track of
changes they may see necessary and wait to amend the Zoning Law until we have a group
of changes that need to be made.
Board Members and Committees
Ms . Marino did not have a report but she had a question in reference to the information
received from the Tompkins County Health Department and the public hearings on the
proposed prohibition on outdoor burning and if that law passes who would enforce it.
Mr. Wilson said that it would be a change in the Sanitary Code and would be enforced by
the Public Health Department .
Supervisor
Mr. Austic pointed out a couple of things in his report.
Ms . Marino asked him to explain account #9901 . 9 Inter- fund transfer.
Mr. Austic explained how this worked .
Deputy Supervisor
Mr. Coogan reported that he attended a Statewide Stormwater meeting in Geneva with
Kate Hacket from Tompkins County Planning. This is where the western and central
New York got together to look at the Stormwater requirements when the stormwater laws
were drafted, which were really done for downstate, so they are trying to see what
changes can be done for upstate. Ms . Hacket had asked Mr. Coogan to attend with her so
that small municipalities are represented. There are some things coming up that they
want to make sure everyone is aware of. The new phasing will be in 2008/2009 and it
will most likely involve school districts . One of the things being proposed is that the
Towns take all the responsibilities for school districts . All towns are rejecting it. School
districts have different boundaries and there own taxing authority. They have said that
the school district will have to be responsible for an MS4 .
The State Coalition and DEC are going to work with small municipalities for specified
training. One will be to evaluate SWPPP when they come in, how to go through and
what to be looking for, how to conduct site reviews and how to manage and store records
and what will be required. This will be for small municipalities that do not have in-house
engineering staffs . One thing the State is looking at is that Soil and Water Conversation
Districts mite take on the responsibility for SWPPP review and if a number of
municipalities would like Soil and Water may be available to take on the inspections .
This would be a lesser cost than going to an engineering firm .
Ms. Marino asked Mr. Coogan to explain again what you would need a SWPPP for?
Mr. Coogan said that if it is a large site or if you have an environmental district on steep
slopes and special sites over five acres need a full SWPPP and a Stormwater Prevention
I
I
I i
1
Regular Town Board 4
09/ 13/2005
Plan will all details, smaller one- acre site disturbances just require a soil , sediment, and
erosion control document .
Mr. Coogan said that the State is not recommending the use retention ponds because they
have become a breeding ground for mosquitoes and West Nile . They have found that wet
ponds do not have the same problem . They also cautioned to watch for sump pumps and
footer drains being put out into storm sewers . They feel this is a big problem because of
what maybe stored in basements . All water coming out of sump plumps and footer drains
must remain on the property.
The enforcement is still up in the air. They did say the Department of Health will be the
enforcement agency for any biological and DEC will take care of any toxin. No
enforcement agency for just water. DEC says that when a town passes a local storm
water law they need to designate who is responsible for enforcement as part of the law .
Another item that came up is that the flyover for the septic detection has caught the
attention of the State and they are very interested in the results because it may become
standard practice .
Mr. Coogan said on a local basis he has distributed to the Town Board the Tompkins
County Soil and Water Conservation District information. They are requesting that all
municipalities pay dues in order to support the work being done .
Ms . Marino pointed out that these rules Mr. Coogan has spoke of would only have to be
enforced in the Town ' s MS4 District, so technically the Town only has to enforce in the
MS4 district. The Town could choose to do enforcement in all of Ulysses when we make
our local storm water law .
Mr. Coogan said yes in the MS4 district and construction sites of more than five acres .
Ms . Marino asked the status of the Ulysses Stormwater Law?
Mr. Coogan said that at this time it is very long and complicated and the Stormwater
Group is working on paring it down . There are a lot of things that have been restated
where the information is available elsewhere and some things do not pertain to Ulysses .
They originally took the Water Resources report from the County and Rebecca added a
lot to it and now they are backing out to see what seems to make sense . They have the
DEC comments and these comments took a lot of time to look at .
Mr. Ellis asked if there were helpful standards available to small lot owners, small
business and small homeowners about how to handle water on site without running it off?
Mr. Coogan said yes there are and the Stormwater Group is putting together a pamphlet
that will have recommendations to small homeowners . Cooperative Extension is starting
to do training programs for rain gardens and things like that.
OLD BUSINESS
Ms . Marino asked if there is any time line with this Trumansburg Commons project. She
does know that it is starting Site Plan Review. She said that it is a reasonably high
visibility project and she is being asked by a lot of people . Ms . Marino said she would
like an update on the time line and what is happening.
Mr. Austic said the time line is when the Planning Board sets up their hearings . The
Town Board is not involved any more is because they withdrew their request for a water
district because there is no source for water. Mr. Austic believes that they are working
with the Health Department and they are planning on drilling a well . They are now under
Site Plan Review with their building and project.
Ms. Marino questioned what the process was if they did not get adequate water for their
project.
Regular Town Board 5
09/ 13 /2005
Mr. Wilson said that the developer is entitled to apply for Site Plan Review like anyone is
and they are applying for it as we speak. The Town Board has no involvement now that
the application for a Water District has been withdrawn .
Mr. Ellis said that he had another item of old business rather a comment . Mr. Ellis felt
that there were a number of administrative things that he thought should have been tightly
related to the Zoning Law and he is going to take Mr. Wilson ' s offer to help him draft a
resolution of his thoughts .
NEW BUSINESS
Proposes Applications and Fees (Zoning and Water)
Mr. Coogan is working on making up applications . He has a draft of one for Subdivision
that he distributed to the Town Board . Mr. Coogan is working with Mr. Rachun. The
Board has to establish fees for the different procedures . Mr. , Austic listed the different
fees that need to be established as follows :
• Subdivision — Simple — Simple on the specified Roads - Minor — Major
• Site Plan Review
• Re-Zoning — Development District — Multi Housing
• Tower Ordinance
There are fees set now for Zoning Variances, Building Permits etc .
The Board was interested in what the real costs would be and Mr. Rachun should advise
them on this .
Mr. Ellis suggested fees for now but would like more information what real cost are but
since the Town needs something this could work until something is figured out. Fees can
be adjusted with a resolution.
• Simple $ 50
• Simple on roads listed $ 75
• Minor $ 150
• Major $ 300
• Site Plan $ 150
• PDD $ 150
Mr. Ellis also feels that the other charges that an applicant will be responsible for be
stated on the application such as the legal advertising expenses and possible consultant
fees .
The Town Board did set a fee sometime ago for a Tower application . Ms . Georgia will
look up what this was .
Mr. Ellis moved, seconded by Mr. Weatherby the following :
BE IT RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Ulysses set the fees for
the following :
• Simple $ 50
• Simple on roads listed $75
• Minor $ 150
• Major $300
• Site Plan $ 150
• PDD $ 150
Mr. Austic aye
Mr. Scott aye
Mr. Weatherby aye
Ms. Marino aye
Regular Town Board 6
09/ 13/2005
Mr. Ellis aye
Adopted.
Fee for Zoning Ordinance
Mr. Austic moved, seconded by Mr. Ellis the following :
BE IT RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Ulysses set a fee of $25
for a copy of the Ulysses Zoning Law with a color map .
Mr. Austic aye
Mr. Scott aye
Mr. Weatherby aye
Ms . Marino aye
Mr. Ellis aye
Adopted.
Mr. Ellis asked if the Town Board could be copied on the application forms so that they
can make comments . Mr. Coogan will do that .
Water Rates
Mr. Austic said that there are fees listed on the application for a Plumbing Permit. But
now the Town is finding out that there are other things that people are asking for that are
not listed on the application form such as filling a pool or repairs due to a customers
neglect . Mr. Austic is purposing that the Town has a $ 50 service charge that would cover
one hour of labor and time after that would be at a rate of $25 per hour.
Mr. Scott moved, seconded by Mr. Ellis the following :
BE IT RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Ulysses set a policy to . l
charge $ 50 for a water service charge for first hour and $25 per hour after that .
Mr. Austic aye
Mr. Scott aye
Mr. Weatherby aye
Ms . Marino aye
Mr. Ellis aye
Adopted .
Abandonment of Road
Mr. Wilson has received a request for abandonment of a road . Mr. Wilson suggested
tabling this so that he can share what paper work he has with the Town Board and to also
arrange to meet with James Meeker, Highway Superintendent at the site.
Health Insurance
Mr. Austic has a request from James Meeker, Highway Superintendent to re-look at the
Town ' s Health Insurance policy. Mr. Coogan has gotten a list of what other towns and
Tompkins County are offering. Mr. Austic said that the question is in order to be
competitive and get people to work does the Town want to change the policy. Mr. Austic I'
said that most towns are paying some portion of the health insurance and some towns still
pay for 100% coverage on family and single.
Mr. Meeker said that one thing that he would like to mention is that the employees that
work for the Town had as a benefit years ago the flexibility for vacation in the summer
time and the insurance benefit. What this change in the personal policy did in 1992 was
done after the last hired highway employee and the Town Board said that there should be
a change, but in 1992 just paying for the individual and the employee picking up the
Regular Town Board 7
09/ 13/2005
family plan, in 1988 when he last hired there was not that much difference in the cost.
Today there is a large difference, kind of like the gas prices in 1988 and today. Mr.
Meeker said he has people who have worked for him twenty-five and thirty years and
they are making $ 16 to $ 17 per hour. Mr. Meeker asked how many people do you know
that work at a job that requires a safety sensitive CDL license, drug and alcohol testing,
OSHA compliance and other stuff and make $ 16 or $ 17 per hour and now you want to
start charging them for health insurance . Mr. Meeker does not feel that is right. Mr.
Meeker said that they could go to State wage rate, which is three times what he pays and
they would only be doing one thing. His men when on a job paving sees the guys
running the pavers are paid State wage rate, which is $40+ an hour. Mr. Meeker feels
you have to of set the cost, sure the insurance is a large cost per individual but you have
to give some kind of perk. If you are going to have decent employees that you can call in
nights, weekends, holidays and expect them to put in sometimes 80 to 90 hours per week
in the winter time them you have to have some kind of compensation or we will not have
people that stay for the longevity like they are now . You all know when you have an
employee that has done this type of work, familiar with the trucks, the equipment the
roads they are worth a lot more than a person hired off the street with no experience . Mr.
Meeker said he has been superintendent for 26 years and has hired two people because of
people retiring.
Mr. Ellis said that he likes his argument a lot and is 100% with him on it and he thinks
that for this type of worker the benefits count so much that the $ 16 / $ 17 per hour makes
a package that they are satisfied with and satisfied with for a very long time, which is
excellent. Mr. Ellis said that the value for someone that works for five years and more is
very valuable for this kind of work; you do not want someone coming and going. The
only reservation that Mr. Ellis has about it is paying the benefits for people with families
was not very well received by the people who did not have families . They did not feel
like they were getting the same deal . He asked if Mr. Meeker feels he has any risk here .
Mr. Meeker does not see any problem as far as he is concerned; when the family is done
then the coverage drops .
Mrs . Georgia said that she has spoke with others here that are both on single coverage
and they have no problem with that.
Ms. Marino asked Mr. Ellis if he was suggesting paying 100% of all of the family and the
single or having the employee pay a percentage?
Mr. Meeker thinks that for the job done and the type of employee that he has it does not
hurt the Town a bit to pay 100% of the health insurance for either single or family
coverage than all the employees are on the same level . It does not change the overall
budget that much and you are offering the employee a benefit package that is idea for
them . He feels that it is an attraction for the employee and you get the longevity and the
state retirement .
The Board was given some figures pulled together by Mr. Austic and Mr. Coogan on the
health insurance benefits paid by other Towns in the County and the current cost to the
Town for family and single coverage ($ 1153 . 88 and $494 . 58 , respectively) . A change to
full family coverage would increase the Town health insurance budget by $ 8 ,000 per
year for future employees hired with family coverage, as the Town currently pays 25 % of
family for employees hired after 1992 . The Town currently pays full family for all the
employees requesting it, as they were hired before 1992 .
Regular Town Board 8
09/ 13/2005
Mr. Ellis moved, seconded by Mr. Scott the Following :
BE IT RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Ulysses will amended the
Town of Ulysses Personnel Manual dated 4/ 13 / 1999 under Health Insurance to read "The
Town shall contribute 100% of the cost of individual or family coverage on the Town ' s
health insurance plan for a Class "A" employees . " To be effective immediately.
Mr. Austic aye
Mr. Scott aye
Mr. Weatherby aye
•
Ms . Marino aye
Mr. Ellis aye
Adopted.
Training and Enforcement
Mr. Austic said that if Mr. Coogan works on the training manuals and the enforcement
for the planning board, zoning board etc . his budget would not handle the additional
hours .
Mr. Ellis suggested circulating the plan and then return to have a discussion and come
back to it at the October meeting.
Other
Mr. Coogan said that it has been brought to his attention that David Lessinger who is the
Towns representative to EMC no longer lives in the Town of Ulysses and now is a
resident of the Town of Ithaca.
Mr. Ellis said that he had talked with David and said that he would find out if it made a
difference . Mr. Lessinger would be willing to continue if it does not make a difference
where he resides .
The general consensus of the Town Board was if he wishes to continue they do not have
a problem unless someone else comes forward.
Mr. Wilson said that he is preparing a bill for his additional fees that are not covered
under his monthly retainer fees . This will be ready before the next Regular Town Board
meeting for discussion.
Ms . Marino said that she would like to discuss the letter received from Don Barber
requesting the support from the Town in the form of a letter or attending the Tompkins
County Board meeting on September 20th to request that the County Legislature add
three more deputies to the sheriff department so that the citizens of Tompkins County
have more police presence to be safe and protected .
Mr. Ellis said that he is not very supportive of it strictly from the point of view that the
Town of Ulysses has substantial police presence having the Village Police, the Park
Police and the State Troopers but he would support Mr. Barber' s request .
Mr. Austic does not have a problem supporting Mr. Barber ' s cause but he feels the same
as Mr. Ellis .
Ms . Marino would like to support this .
Mr. Austic will write a letter in support and forward it on.
Regular Town Board 9
09/ 13/2005
Ms . Marino said that the budget process is coming up again and suggested that the Board
may want to set a meeting for the first review . She stated that she will be out of town
October 16th through the 20th, and would like to participate in the meetings .
Mr. Austic said that he would be distributing the tentative budget by the end of
September and the Board could schedule a meeting prior to the Regular Town Board
meeting or schedule a special meeting. No determination was made. The Board
discussed the calendar for the budget and when it needed to be adopted .
Adjournment
Hearing no further business Mr. Scott moved, Mr. Weatherby seconded for adjournment.
Hearing no objection the Board unanimously approved for adjournment.
Respectfully submitted,
Marsha L. Georgia
Ulysses Town Clerk
MLG : mlg