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TOWN OF ITHACA
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
r
SEPTEMBER 81 1976
A Meeting of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals was held in
the Town of Ithaca Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street ( second floor ) ,
Ithaca , New York , on Wednesday , September 8 , 1976 , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Chairman Peter Francese , Jack Hewett , Laurene Ripley ,
Edward Austen , Edward King , Lawrence P . Fabbroni ( Building Inspector ) ,
ALSO PRESENT : Helen Lasher , Gale Austen , William Reynolds ,
Nicholas J . Sturgeon , Fenton Loomis , Gladys Loomis , Kathy Reynolds ,
Frances E . Gangl , Leo Gangl , Robert E . Bacon , Carolyn W . Bacon , Lillian
S . Vail , David Gluck , Susanne 0 . Hander , Bill Hague , Dr . Michael A .
Goodfriend , Dr . Louis W . Munchmeyer , Dr . C . Judson Kilgore , Dr . Robert
G . Hickes , Arthur Sherwood , Bruce Rich , Lynn Rich , Anne Ouellette ,
Virginia Freeman , Eleanor Glauer , Ann Jordan , Eileen Rhonemus , George
Van Epps , Evelyn Ainsworth , Richard L . Pollock , June Chandler , Esther
Martin Larry Rhonemus , John R . Howe , Nick Plataniotis , Donald C . Ball ,
Louis A . . Webster , Alan Goodman , David Be Gersh , Esq . , Robert J . Clune , Esq ,
hob2rChairman Francese called the meeting to order at 7 : 45
p . m .
APPEAL OF DR . LOUIS W . MUNCHMEYER ET AL , APPELLANTS , FROM THE DECISION
OF THE BUILDING INSPECTOR DENYING BUILDING PERMIT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF
A MEDICAL CLINIC ON DUBOIS ROAD ( A PORTION OF PARCELS NO , 6 - 22 - 2 - 2 . 2
AND 6 - 22 - 2 - 16 ) , ITHACA , N . Y . , SPECIAL APPROVAL BEING REQUIRED FROM
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS UNDER ARTICLE V , SECTION 18 , PARAGRAPH 11 , OF
THE ZONING ORDINANCE ,
Chairman Francese declared the adjourned Public Hearing on the
rehearing of the above -noted matter duly opened at 7 : 45 p . m .
Chairman Francese outlined the order of business ,
1 . The Appellants are represented by Mr . David Be Gersh who will be
heard first .
2 . After Mr . Gersh ' s presentation , any statements in favor of this pro -
posal will be heard ,
3 . The neighbors in opposition are represented by Mr . Robert J . Clune
who will be heard
4 . After Mr . Clune ' s presentation , any statements in opposition to this
proposal will be heard ,
Mr . Gersh stated that he appears before the Board , not only on behalf
of the , appellants , the Doctors , but also on behalf of a large number of
neighbors here present in favor of the construction of this medical
facility .
Mr . Gersh stated that this matter is a rehearing of an appeal by
Drs . Munchmeyer , Kilgore and Goodfriend , who have now been joined by Dr .
Robert G . Hickes , in connection with their proposed construction of a
medical facility , as shown on the map on the wall . The lot in question
is situated 240 ' northerly from the intersection of DuBois and Indian
Creek Roads . The Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca , which does not
have initial jurisdiction , has considered this proposal in terms of use
and has indicated by letter to the Zoning Board of Appeals that this is
r'
Zoning Board of Appeals - 2 - September 8 , 1976
a desirable use for this area and no member of the Planning Board
evidenced any objections to it .
Mr . Gersh continued and stated that the judgment of this planning
body as to the fact that this is an appropriate use in this area has
merit . The lot is 2 - 3 / 4 acres in size . There is access from DuBois
Road and Indian Creek Road . This then does anticipate that most of - - _
the people attending this facility will come in via DuBois Road or
Indian Creek Road from the hospital .
Mr . Gersh , indicating the map on the wall , stated that those
people who are immediately affected by this traffic , that is , the
next door neighbors on either side and across the street and those
shown in green on the map , green indicating those homeowners in favor ,
the people directly affected , have indicated their approval . Mr .
Gersh stated that the people who have voiced opposition , to the best
of his knowledge , again indicating on the map on the wall those
homeowners in red being in opposition , are with the exception of three ,
Reynolds , Porter and Bacon , all located some distance northerly . Mr .
Gersh stated that they will not have any involvement directly in the
facility in the sense of traffic , looking at it , etc . Mr . Gersh asked
the Board to put appropriate weight on the favorable opinions of these
people ( indicating on map the green parcels shown ) who are immediate
neighbors with those who are not immediate neighbors .
Mr . Gersh stated that the lot is owned by Mr . George VanEpps who
owns much of the property in the back of the proposed site , 97 acres
in all , and across the street , 19 acres .
Mr . Gersh stated that
the proposed use is for a medical office for
these four doctors . They are presently occupying an office with room
for two doctors at the Professional Building on Trumansburg Road , Mr .
Gbrsh stated that he felt the doctors are very fortunate to have been
joined by Dr . Hickes , who is a chemo - therapist , and that the modern
facilities proposed were certainly a part of his inducement to come
to this area .
Mr . Gersh stated that the Doctors request the Board ' s approval of
construction of this building . He said that the site plan which he
would like to spread before the Board members shows the building set
back some 60 ' from DuBois Road , and , that the architect has now shown
that the building can be moved back just about anywhere on the site
that this Board deems appropriate . Mr . Gersh noted that some of the
neighbors , Mrs . Reynolds and Mr . Bacon , were concerned with the view
of the Lake . He said that the building can be moved back 100 ' from
the DuBois Road , and if the Board makes that a condition , the appellants
will accept that condition , and there will be no obstruction of the
Lake . * * Mr . Gersh stated that he wanted to impress upon the Board that it
is his view of the Board ' s duty in this matter to impose whatever con-
ditions it deems appropriate . He stated that in his judgment that is
what a special approval is all about . It is not to determine whether
the use is permitted . As you are well aware , it is a permitted use .
You should have the opportunity to impose conditions on the site plan ,
® on driveway widths , screening , etc . Mr . Gersh continued and stated
that the appellants will be willing to do whatever is asked of them .
Mr . Gersh noted that the question was raised by Mr . Francese as to
whether the building can be moved back 1001 . The answer is , yes it can .
Mr . Gersh noted another concern voiced by the Reynolds and maybe the
* * ( Sentence omitted ) - -Mr . Gersh stated that the building is proposed to be
of brick facing with a mansard roof and very tastefully and very quietly
done .
Zoning Board of Appeals - 3 - September 8 , 1976
Bacons is apparatus on the building such as air conditioning ducts ,
heating vents , etc . Mr . Gersh stated that as a condition the Board can
require that no unattractive apparatus be visible from the street .
Mr . Gersh stated that he would like to call upon Dr . Munchmeyer
to describe the proposed operation of this medical office , its use ,
what they are doing , etc .
Dr . Munchmeyer stated that he and the other three doctors are four
Internists practicing general medicine in Ithaca . There is no surgery
done in the office . We see patients fairly infrequently - - 15 to 20
patients on a _given day in the office . The office hours are from 8 : 30
a . m . to 5 : 00 p . m . or 5 : 30 p . m . There are no evening hours . We are open
some Saturday mornings from 9 : 00 or 10 : 00 a . m . to Noon . We do not do
any surgery . That is important . We are a low water . user . There are
no whirlpool baths . We will not lower the water level . We will use
less water than the average house . We have no intentions of any
expansion at this time . There are four of us .
Mr . Gersh asked Dr . Munchmeyer if there will be any light or glare
from the property . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that the screening is shown .
He said that they can screen the front ' in any number of ways so that it
can be barely seen . It will look like a regular house . There will be
hemlocks screening the parking lot . There will be low set lights at
the bottom of the office and the parking lot for safety .
Mrs . Ripley asked for clarification she stated that she under -
stood the Doctor to say that there would be no floodlighting . Dr .
Munchmeyer said that there will be no floodlighting .
Mr . Francese noted by way of clarification that they do plan to
illuminate the parking lot . Dr . Munchmeyer replied that they do , with
low set lights as a safety measure .
Mr . Gersh asked Dr . Munchmeyer if there would be any fumes in
connection with this medical office . Dr . Munchmeyer said there would be
none . Mr . Gersh asked Dr . Munchmeyer if there would be any light glare .
Dr . Munchmeyer replied , no . Mr . Gersh asked Dr . Munchmeyer if there
would be any noise involved in this medical office . Dr . Munchmeyer said
there would be no noise .
Mr . Gersh turned to the question of traffic . Mr . Gersh stated that
this is a fear that has been expressed . There seems to be a fear on the
part of some that the traffic might interfere with the enjoyment of
their properties . Mr . Gersh stated that they believe that most of the
traffic will come by the homes of those people who approve of the
proposal - - indicating the colored map on the wall .
Dr . Munchmeyer stated that there will only be three doctors in the
office at any one time . He stated that they see about 15 patients a
day , that is , about 45 cars a day . He said you could realistically
talk about 45 cars a day . Dr . Munchmeyer said that there are 9 employees
in addition to the four doctors . Dr . Munchmeyer said that it was his
opinion that you could count on about 6 to 8 cars per hour during the
time that they are there .
Mr . Gersh asked Dr . Munchmever about signs for the proposed medical
office . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that there will be a placard placed next
" Zoning Board of Appeals - 4 - September 8 , 1976
to the door with the four doctors names on it .
Mr . Gersh noted that the drainage plans would have to be approved
by the Town Engineer completely .
Mr . Francese stated that he would like to state some points for
clarification . The first is that as he understands it , the number of
patients will run about 10 to 20 per day each . The second is that this
office will have four doctors plus nine additional employees . The third
is a question - - does the building permit expansion so that there may
be five doctors and more employees ? Dr . Munchmeyer stated that the
building is a one story building . He stated that the only part they
have any intention of developing at this time is the main floor . The
building fits into a __slope . The basement will be left unfinished .
Mr . Francese asked the Doctor if they, have a height on this
building .
Mr . Gersh introduced Mr . William Hague , Architect , with Marshall
Erdman & Associates , Inc . , Design/Engineering /Prefabrication/Construc -
tion , of Madison , Wisconsin , Princeton , New Jersey , Dallas , Texas , and
Atlanta , Georgia , said firm being specialists in Medical Facilities ,
Mr . Gersh noted that this firm was responsible for the Medical Facility
located at 821 Cliff Street in the City of Ithaca and which houses Drs .
Yale , Baldwin , McKeen and Stewart .
Mr . Hague stated that the proposed building will stand 12 - 1 / 2 '
from the ground to the peak of the mansard roof . Mr . Hague noted
that he . is at one disadvantage - - they have had to interpolate on this
topography . He noted that it is a fairly consistent grade lowering .
It is not a level lot .
Mr . Gersh asked Mr . Hague if it is accurate to say that this
building can be so designed and so placed that it would not obstruct
the view of the people living across the street on DuBois Road . Mr .
Hague replied , yes , no question about that . Mr . Hague requested that
the Board look at the " eye line " detail on the Partial Site Plan dated
November 5 , 1975 , and which was overlooked by the Board at the previous
hearing . Mr . Hague stated that this detail , using only the 60 ' setback ,
which is not accurate for this hearing , clearly shows no obstruction
from across the street .
Mr . Gersh now asked Dr . Munchmeyer to tell the Board and the
citizens present what efforts they have made to find other sites for
this medicial office .
Dr . Munchmeyer stated that they did make a number of inquiries
along Route 96 , really from the Octopus on up to Indian Creek Farms ,
i . e , , from inside the City of Ithaca , through the Town of Ithaca , and
into the Town of Ulysses . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that he should mention
at this time that they ( the doctors ) feel that they must be in this
area . He stated that all of them have practices where they are fre -
® quently back and forth to the Hospital . He stated that it would be a
terrible time waste to be some place else ; so they only explored this
area as just noted . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that they looked at Dr .
Yale ' s office and property . Mr . Hague also looked at Dr . Yale ' s
property and determined that it was too narrow and too steep . Dr .
Zoning Board of Appeals - 5 - September 8 , 1976
Munchmeyer stated that the question of obtaining land from the Budget
Market on Cliff Street , a parcel thereof , was discussed with Mr . John
Vasse , Realtor , Dr . Munchmeyer stated that the purchase of land from
the Budget Market was only on an entire package basis - - 17 acres in all
as a unit . The Odd Fellows Home property was looked at with Mr . Vasse
also . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that the property was for sale for $ 150 , 000 . 00 .
He stated , however , that in order to make that building into a medical
office , which , he said , he really wanted to do because he really loves
that building , renovations were required . He stated that two persons
were asked to submit costs for the renovations required to serve the
needs of the doctors . One estimate came in with a figure of $ 81 , 000 . 00
and the other came in at $ 100 , 000 . 00 . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that this
possible site was just too expensive , but , more importantly , even with
substantial renovations the building would just not be suitable for a
medical office . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that they looked into the Odd
Fellows parcel across the street . He said that one whole parcel was
for sale - - 35 acres - - for $ 230 , 000 . 00 . Dr . Munchmever said that he
talked to the Board of the Odd Fellows and asked if they would sell
him a two or a one acre parcel and they told him that they did not want
to break it up .
Dr . Munchmeyer stated that the doctors looked into Dr . Goff ' s
property , again on the Trumansburg Road , with Realtor Esther Martin
approaching Dr . Goff . Dr . Goff stated that he was not interested
in selling . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that Dr . Goff is a veterinarian
and that he ( Munchmeyer ) asked Mr . Hague to look at the part of this
property that would be used for an office . Dr . Munchmeyer said that
Mr . Hague found that the site was poorly drained , " there is an electrical
line coming down through it , and there is not enough room on which to
build .
Dr . Munchmeyer stated that they looked at a one - half acre parcel
of land at the northeast corner of the Professional Building , where they
are now located . He said that they discussed the matter with Dr .
Hirshfeld . who is the owner . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that the site is
poorly drained and there is a . ..New York State Electric and Gas encumbrance ,
i . e . , a 50 ' easement . Dr . Munchmeyer said the issue was discussed with
Mr . Hague and he looked at the site and deemed it not suitable for the
doctors ' needs .
Mr . Francese asked if Dr . Munchmeyer would say that these lots are
the only lots from , say , the Budget Market on up to , say , a quarter of
a mile past the Hospital . Dr . Munchmeyer replied , yes . Dr . Munchmeyer
said that Mr . Vasse had said that we have covered the waterfront . He
said that we had covered every available site .
Mr . Gersh pointed out also that Dr . Munchmeyer had worked with
Realtor Esther Martin . Mr . Gersh also pointed/ that Mr . Vasse is an
expert in commercial properties . out
Mr . Gersh stated that the area in question is an R- 30 zone . It is
not intensely developed . He stated that the tax maps indicate enormous
areas of undeveloped land . Mr . Gersh stated that the people favor this
® development because they want more housing going into this area because
then the better the chances of water and sewer for the area . He said
the neighbors said they were losing out to the Northeast because they
do not have this type of facility .
Mr . Gersh asked the Board to consider the following :
Zoning Board of Appeals - 6 - September 8 , 1976
1 . The area is not intensely developed .
2 . There are a number of non - residential uses within the area - -
a . Poyer Orchards .
b . Tompkins County Hospital .
c . Lakeside Nursing Home .
d . The Odd Fellows Home and Rebeckah Lodge .
e . The Professional Building .
3 . The nearness to the support facilities such as the County Laboratory ,
4 . There is a drug store in the Professional Building . That is a
business zone .
Mr . Gersh stated that all these things make this site so appropriate
for the doctors . He said that it is important that they be near the
County Laboratory and the Hospital , both of which they use regularly
every day . Mr . Gersh stated that unless we have these facilities
near these support facilities we are not going to have doctors in this
community that we need . Mr . Gersh said that he would submit that this
is an ideal location for this use . Mr . Gersh said that he would submit
that it is an ideal site . He said that it is important to have an idea
that the proposed use is in connection with the rest of the VanEpps
property - - 97 acres . Mr . Gersh said that one of the fears expressed
was that this medical office would open the door to more doctors ' offices ,
to stores , etc . Mr . Gersh pointed out that a medical clinic is allowed
in this R- 30 zone - - a drug store is not . Mr . Gersh said that in order
to allay any fears that may still remain , he would ask Mr . VanEpps to
outline his proposal for the remaining acres .
Mr . VanEpps stated that he is not a real estate dealer . He said
that he has been working with Thomas Niederkorn , Planner , on plans
for the development of his (VanEpps ' ) land . Mr . VanEpps said that there
is a roadway on the east side of this lot in question off Indian Creek
Road and it is proposed to run in a circle north from the proposed
facility . He said this proposed development would involve about 21
parcels including the doctors ' parcels . He said that this land would
be developed as residential parcels only ranging in size from three to
six acres with adequate play areas , etc . Mr . VanEpps said that he has
been approached by several people to buy property from him in this area
and they are all interested in horses . He said that he is proposing
the development of bridle paths for the proposed parcels running about
a mile for the parcels . Mr . VanEpps said that there is plenty of water .
He stated that there are 20 gallons a minute from the doctors ' well .
Mr . Francese asked Mr . VanEpps if he has any plans for his land
across the street . Mr . VanEpps replied , no , not yet . Mr . VanEpps said
that Carl Crandall , Engineer/ Surveyor , worked out plans for him which
have been signed and sealed by the Health Department ,
Mr . King asked Mr . VanEpps how many acres he has on the one side of
DuBois Road , Mr . VanEpps said 99 acres with the doctors ' parcel .
Mr . Gersh asked Mr . VanEpps if it is his intent to develop the
remaining lands into quality lots conferring with Tom Niederkorn in
terms of three to six acre lots . Mr . VanEpps said that he is working
with Mr . Niederkorn on the development and the doctors expressed an
interest in being there . He said he talked to Mr . Niederkorn and he
( Niederkorn ) said that this proposal of the doctors will not devaluate
the area .
Mr . Gersh asked Mr . VanEpps how long he has owned the property that
Zoning Board of Appeals - 7 - September 8 , 1976
is indicated on that map ( indicating the colored map ) . Mr . VanEpps
said he has owned the 99 acres for 12 years . Mr . Gersh asked Mr . VanEpps
if , in his ( VanEpps ) judgment , this would devaluate or enhance the area .
Mr . VanEpps stated that he looks to it to enhance the area .
Mr . Gersh asked Mr . VanEpps if the proposed Route 96 relocation is
a factor . Mr . VanEpps said that he was aware of the three proposals
for the Route 96 relocation and that he and Mr . Niederkorn plotted them
out to see what they would look like . Mr . VanEpps indicated on . the map
and said that one proposal goes right up through the area of his
property and touches the Ainsworth property just north of the proposed
medical site . He said the other one goes east of his property and the
third goes south of the Hospital . Mr . VanEpps said that they would
keep Route 96 out of that area if they put the medical facility in
there . Mr . VanEpps said that he would locate Route 96 south of the
Hospital .
Mr . Gersh noted that the Route 96 relocation south of the Hospital
is the proposal favored by the County Planning Department and the Town
of Ithaca , it being both bodies feelings that the State would have to
purchase the least amount of valuable property with that plan .
Mr . Francese asked who owns the parcel shown in white on the
colored map . about 900 ' up the DuBois Road , Mr . Gersh replied , Yenei .
Mr . Francese noted that Yenei or Jenks on the corner about 250 ' south
have never appeared in support or in objection .
Mr . Gersh called upon Mrs . Esther Martin to speak to the Board .
® Mr . Gersh asked Mrs . Martin how long she has been working as a realtor .
® Mrs . Martin replied , 26 years . Mr . Gersh asked Mrs . Martin if she had
an opinion as to whether this medical facility would , enhance or devaluate
the area ? Mrs . Martin stated that she has felt all along that it would
enhance the area . She said that they are willing to fix it in any way
that would be best for the area . She said she has worked with the
doctors and , yes , she has checked out every parcel up and down the road
and has not found anything .
Mr . Clune said that Mrs . Martin is not a certified appraiser . Mrs .
Martin said that she has been a realtor for 26 years . She said she is
not an M . A . I . appraiser . Mrs . Martin said that to her knowledge there
are no M . A . I . appraisers in Ithaca . She said she was certain of that .
Mr . Clune strongly questioned Mrs . Martin ' s memory .
Mr . Gersh stated that Mr . John Vasse , Realtor , was present at the
December 10 , 1975 , meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals where this
appeal , here being reheared , was heard . Mr . Gersh quoted from the Minutes
of that hearing , as follows :
" Vasse - I have just completed an appraisal of the Cliff Street property
and that medical facility has not decreased the value in that
area in any way . I think that in no way would this proposed
clinic hinder the neighborhood in property values . To me , I
would think it would enhance the area . I would rather see it
® in the Town of Ithaca . I think it is a very nice piece of real
estate . "
Mr . Gersh stated that he would like to call upon Mr . Lawrence
Fabbroni , the Town of Ithaca Planning /Engineer and Building Inspector ,
Zoning Board of Appeals - 8 - September 8 , 1976
to express his opinion as to the planning , engineering , and zoning
aspects of this proposed medical facility .
Mr . Clune strongly objected to this and stated firmly that it was
totally improper. .
Mr . Francese ruled that it was not Mr . Fabbroni ' s place to express
his opinion .
Mr . Francese asked if the Planning Board had seen this plan . Mr .
Fabbroni replied , yes . Mr . Fabbroni read the letter that Mrs . Barbara
P . Holcomb , Chairman , Town of Ithaca Planning Board , had written to
Mr . Francese on November 19 , 1975 .
" November 19 , 1975 .
Mr . Peter K . Francese , Chairman
Zoning Board of Appeals
10 Muriel Street
Ithaca , N . Y . 14850
Re * '
e : Appeal of Dr . Louis Munchmeyer et al
Dear Peter :
On November 11 , 1975 , at its regular meeting , the Planning Board
of the Town of Ithaca reviewed and discussed the plans for a proposed
medical facility as presented by Dr . Louis Munchmeyer et al with Mr .
Stanley Tsapis acting as their attorney .
It was the consensus of the Planning Board that if the Zoning Board
of Appeals of the Town of Ithaca should find that the proposed building
and use fall within the definition in Article I , Section 1 , paragraph 26
of a medical clinic and , therefore , is subject to special approval by
said Zoning Board of Appeals , the Planning Board offers the following
comments for the information of said Board of Appeals .
1 . That the building on the lot seems to meet rear yard , side yard ,
and front yard requirements of an R- 30 District . We recognize ,
however , that R- 30 residential requirements really have little
meaning for this sort of specialized use .
2 . That , based on the information presented to us that approximately
50 cars per day will constitute the patient traffic load , the
parking area seems to be adequate for employee and patient parking .
3 . That we have not seen plans for , nor do we pass judgment on , any
matters concerning surface drainage , and therefore , if this plan
should be approved by the Zoning Board of Appeals , a drainage plan
must be approved by the Town Engineer before permission is given to
build .
4 . We note that a screening from the adjacent properties has been
® indicated .
5 . That some members of the Planning Board felt that this is a desirable
use for this area and that no member of the Planning Board offered any
adverse comments . However , we took no formal action in this matter
feeling that this determination falls more properly within the
Zoning Board of Appeals - 9 - September 8 , 1976
.jurisdiction of the Zoning Board of Appeals .
A Motion of resolution that this letter be sent to the Zoning
Board of Appeals from the Planning Board was duly made , seconded , and
approved unanimously by all seven members of the Planning Board
present .
Sincerely yours
( sgd . ) Barbara P . Holcomb
Barbara P . Holcomb
Chairman
Planning Board
cc - Jack Hewett
Laurene Ripley
Edward Austen
Edward King "
Mr . Gersh said that he would request that the Board , if not at
this Public Hearing , perhaps at Executive Session , seek the opinion of
its professional employee , Mr . Fabbroni . He said he would respectfully
request that his opinion be considered .
Mr . Gersh stated that he would like to ask the doctors to address
themselves to the matter before us and in particular to the need which
this community has to attract and keep physicians .
Dr . Munchmeyer said that with the new hospital being constructed
and all the talk of there being enough patients being available to put
in it , there is no question that there is a need for doctors . Dr .
Munchmeyer said that their need is very present . He said there are
four of them in a two -man office . He repeated , their need is very , very
real . He said that there were six new physicians come into the area
in July alone . He said that he would hope that increase continues and
that we can only expect that we can increase the number of doctors that
will come into the area .
Mr . Francese asked Dr . Munchmeyer how many additional doctors will
be practicing in Tompkins County after the hospital is constructed ?
Dr . Munchmeyer replied that he had absolutely no idea .
Mr . Clune stated to Dr . Munchmeyer - - you are not planning on putting
them in this building ? Dr . Munchmeyer replied , I have made it very clear
that we have no plans to expand .
Dr . Hickes stated that he , his wife , and daughter just moved here
six weeks ago . He stated that he has become acutely aware of the pro -
blems of this building that we are in . Dr . Hickes stated that he is a
cancer chemotherapist ; his present office is most inadequate for any
cancer chemotherapy which is mostly done on an outpatient basis . He
said his practice requires much time and an inordinate amount of space
beyond the normal internist practice . He said that the people that he
is unable to see still have to go to Rochester and Syracuse where chemo -
therapy is available . Dr . Hickes said that the day to day office prac -
tice requires a lot of space - - a lot of injections . He said often the
Zoning Board of Appeals - 10 - September 8 , 1976
patients get sick and must remain in the office for an hour or two .
He said that there is a bottleneck . He said that he could not see
iis adequately performing in * six months from now . Dr . Hickes said that
ce - they must have facilities for him as soon as possible .
Dr . Kilgore stated that he has been practicing here for 12 years .
He said that he guessed he was the senior man here . Dr . Kilgore said
that when they talk about being close to the hospital it is not so much
for their convenience as for the patients . Three of us live only 2 or
3 minutes from the hospital .
Dr . Kilgore stated that they see patients who have coronaries ,
bleeding ulcers , strokes , and they need to send them to coronary care
and other hospital facilities as quickly. - as possible . Some must go to
the County Lab . He said that they cannot do the proper services to
their patients if they have to drive across town . Dr . Kilgore said that
they do not necessarily have to be on DuBois Road , but they have looked
everywhere else , and they , honestly , cannot find any other place .
Dr . Kilgore stated that in the proposed new facility_ there is still not
going to be more than the high - : average of 15 patients per day per
doctor . Dr . Kilgore said that the proposed facility has only space for
the four of them . He said that there is nothing in our plans for
building in the basement . He said that nobody could certainly preclude
that this might not happen in the distant future . He said that 8 , 000
or 9 , 000 patients are to be serviced by the four of them . Dr . Kilgore
said that he did not think that any of the sweeping objections as far
as the whopping traffic load on the neighborhood really hold any
credence . He said that he is looking at this from a selfish standpoint .
He said he hopes that doctors keep being attracted to the Ithaca area .
He said he is concerned with the type of practice that he is placing on
his partners ' shoulders . Dr . Kilgore stated that they feel that they
must be close to the hospital .
Dr . Goodfriend stated that he is a cardiologist . He said that
proximity to the hospital emergency room is good for all in the comuni
m -
ty . He noted that the emergency room entrance is a half a mile from
this site . Dr . Goodfriend stated that he must be close to the hospital .
Dr . Goodfriend stated that Dr . Hickes desperately needs a desk in his
office and there is just no room . He said that he hopes that Dr . Hickes
does not go back to New York City ,
Dr . Hickes stated that he is not going back to New York City ; Ithaca
is too nice .
Mr . Gersh stated that clearly this location is ideally suited to
this use in terms of its location with its closeness to the hospital . and
lab . Mr . Gersh stated that - the ' proposed traffic - - patterns are ideal . Mr .
Gersh stated that this Board is , and should be , responsive to what the
citizens want . He said that the people who are most closely affiliated
with this request want it . Mr . Gersh pointed out that normally those
against a project are usually the most vocal . Mr . Gersh stated that there
are here present about a dozen people who are willing to speak to their
support . Mr . Gersh noted that this is unusual . Mr . Gersh stated that
the people who object to this doctors ' office are perhaps a quarter or
half a mile away who cannot even see it . He noted the exceptions are
the Reynolds , the Porters and the Bacons . Mr . Gersh stated that the
doctors have tried very earnestly to meet their concerns . Mr . Gersh
stated that the doctors have directed the architects to make this
Zoning Board of Appeals - 11 - September 8 , 1976
building look as much as possible like a residence . He said the
applicants will shield everything ; they will screen the roof ; they will
® make the setback a hundred feet ; they will shield the entire building
with hemlock trees . Mr . Gersh stated that he would implore the Board to
put on any restrictions , conditions , hours , expansion , that it wishes
to . Mr . Gersh said that the doctors want to be good neighbors ; they
serve ' the public . He said they are willing to do anything that this
Board wants them to do in connection with this proposal . Mr . Gersh
pointed out some of the uses that are permitted by the Town Zoning
Ordinance in this R- 30 district or any other R- 30 district - - a fire
house , a club house , a lodge , a nursing home , a Town highway garage .
Mr . Gersh stated that the doctors are proposing a tasteful , conservative ,
medical facility .
Mr . Gersh stated that he would ask the people in support of this
proposal to speak .
Mr . Gersh introduced Mrs . June Chandler , the neighbor immediately
adjacent to the southwest corner . Mrs . Chandler stated that this is a
very good thing , and , " I think we should have it . " Mrs . Chandler stated
that there will be no more traffic than what is already going over to
Poyer ' s for . - food . Mrs . Chandler stated that she thought it will enhance
the property in the neighborhood .
Mr . Gersh introduced Mr . and Mrs . Rhonemus , the neighbor immediately
to the east of Mrs . Chandler and also immediately adjacent to the proposed
lot which borders their north lot line . The Rhonemuses stated that they
have lived there for ten years ; they are only the second family in that
home . They stated that the property under discussion covers the full
width of theirs to the rear and the full width of theirs to the east
could ' be an access road . The Rhonemuses stated that the medical office
would be an asset ; it would only be a minute to the hospital . They said
they chose this location because it is near the hospital . They said
they like being near the hospital . They said it is as important to them
as it is to the doctors . The Rhonemuses said , " we feel it will enhance
our property . "
Mr . Francese stated to Attorney Gersh , " you have no objection . to an
access road to the east of the Rhonemus property ? " Mr . Gersh replied that
that could be a condition to have an access to Indian Creek Road ,
Mrs . Vail stood and stated that she is of the group known as
" elder citizens " . Mrs . Vail stated that her property is one field away
from the proposed building to ; the - - north . Mrs . Vail stated that the
neighborhood will be enhanced by this clinic . Mrs . Vail said , " I think
it would be a very desirable place to have it near me . "
Mrs . Glauer stood and stated that she lives next to Mrs . Vail to
the north . Mrs . Glauer said that she approves of the proposal and stated
that it would enhance property and bring up the value .
Mrs . Loomis stood and stated that she lives next to Mrs . Glauer to
the north . Mrs . Loomis said , " I feel we need this building . I have
been very sick this summer and I have had to go out of Town because we
do not have a facility that could handle this . " Mrs . Loomis said that
she has had to personally make 26 trips to Arnott -Ogden in Elmira for
radiology .
Zoning Board of Appeals - 12 - September 8 , 1976
11 L
Mrs . Jordan stood and said that slie lives on the west side of
DuBois Road next to Mrs . Loomis but across the street . Mrs . Loomis
said , " I am in favor of it . I do not think it will take away from the
value of the property . It is certainly not a sore spot . "
Mr . Pollock stood and stated that he lives just east of the
property being discussed , about 200 ' away , on Indian Creek Road and Far
View . Mr . Pollock stated that he has considered the amount of traffic
that is now going through DuBois Road to the hospital . Mr . Pollock said
that he did not see that 40 or 50 cars a day would be any major problem
for him or his family . Mr . Pollock said that he did not care if it
enhanced the value of his home or not . Mr . Pollock said that 50 cars
a day on Indian Creek Road by his house would not bother him . Mr .
Pollock stated that he does consider that if he needs this service he
does not have to go through the Octopus . Mr . Pollock stated that he
is very much in favor of having available to himself and to his family
the services that are being offered by these doctors .
Mr . Francese asked the Board if any members had any questions they
wished to ask of these people . There were none .
Mr . Francese asked Mr . Hague how many square feet is the building .
Mr . Hague said 3 , 800 sq . ft . Mr . Francese asked Mr . Hague what is the
usual cost per square foot . Mr . Hague stated that it was around $ 40 . 00
per sq . ft . just for the building .
Mr . Clune said , " let me ask Mr . Gersh , aside from the efforts that
the doctors themselves maintain they have made since the adverse deci -
sion in December , what other facts have changed : Just what is
different in your application from that of December 1975 ? "
Mr . Gersh stated that the doctors efforts are critical which is
what Mr . Francese indicated in speaking for the majority who voted against
the motion in December 1975 . He said other concerns were blocking of
the Lake view , the building set too close to the road , 601 , concerns
about traffic patterns , apparatus on the roof . He said the appellants
have clearly attempted to meet these concerns and have come back to this
Board with the suggestion that the building be moved back to 100 ' and
since the land slopes the building will not block anyone ' s view . He
said the appellants will shield the building by plantings required from
the road ; they will shield any apparatus on the roof . Mr . Gersh stated
that at the December hearing he was not aware that there was this much
support for this matter . He said all these people here tonight in
support is a new consideration . He said this was not brought out before .
Mr . Gersh stated the Dr . Hickes ' being now established in the office is
a neva consideration . Mr . Gersh said that all these points are pertinent
to this rehearing .
Mr . Clune stated that , having listened to Mr . Gersh and the doctors
and the proponents and the significant efforts made by the doctors to
locate another suitable site and the fact that there are so many
additional uses that can be made in an R- 30 zone , including , of course ,
the clinic , let him suggest to the Board :
1 . The people that he represents have drawn up a new petition of objec -
tion to the construction of an alleged medical clinic proposed by Drs .
Munchmeyer , et .al . Mr . Clune stated that there were 45 signatures of
those people in the immediate area in opposition .
Zoning Board of Appeals - 13 - September 8 , 1976
2 . The people that he represents do not oppose the public service
® rendered to the community .
3 . The assertion by Mr . Gersh that denying this approval will drive
capable doctors from our community is an absurd fear and should not be
a part of your decision .
4 . If you will note what is allowed in an R- 30 zone , which is a
residential zone , it talks about uses other than dwellings that serve
the public . One of these uses is a medical clinic . Mr . Clune stated
that he disagreed with Mr . Gersh that what these doctors have , in the
pure sense of the word , is a clinic . They all have the same specialty .
They are all internists . They house only internists . Mr . Clune said
that when you grant to an R- 30 district a medical clinic it must be
primarily designed to service that community in the medical needs of
that community . These doctors do not fully serve the needs of the
area in which they wish to construct that clinic .
5 . Mr . Clune indicated the colored map and stated that this graphic
map is totally misleading and somewhat inaccurate . Mr . Clune said that
Mr . VanEpps is totally shown in green ( the proponents ) and he owns a
large piece of land .
� 6 . Mr . - .Clune -. stated that Esther Martin is the realtor involved in
this matter . She has pecuniary interests in this matter and that should
be weighed by this Board .
® 7 . Mr . Clune stated that Mr . Gersh ' s suggestion that the bulk of the
traffic in the area where the doctors proposed to build their clinic
will come from Indian Creek Road or off the Trumansburg Road ( Route 96 )
into DuBois Road , Mr . Clune stated that he knew for a fact that there
is a great deal of traffic coming up from Taughannock Blvd . and south
on DuBois Road . This proposal will increase the traffic flow . Mr .
Clune stated that Mr . Gersh is also inaccurate when he says this is
some half mile when it is really 2 / 10 of a mile .
8 . Mr . Clune , indicating the colored map , stated that there are some
people who are here who are not on this map in red .
9 . Mr . Clune stated that he thinks that the character of this
neighborhood will change . It does not support the residential charac -
ter of the neighborhood . Mr . Clune stated that this clinic fits the
doctors immediate convenience to the Tompkins County Hospital .
10 , Mr . Clune stated that with that in mind ( the above ) , the one area
that has been discussed is a problem with the view . He said that now
the doctors say we are going to have hemlocks . Mr . Clune said he did
not know if that will obstruct the view . Mr . Clune said that he did not
know if the screening of the roof projections will obstruct the view .
Mr . Clune stated that the view is not really the crucial problem .
11 . Mr . Clune stated that the County Superintendent of Highways should
be checked with . Mr . Clune said that there is a dip in DuBois Road just
south of Indian Creek Road which is , in the wintertime , an absolute and
total weather hazard , in that the northwest wind blows through into
DuBois Road and no matter what the County Highway Department does , they
cannot adequately cinder this road . Mr . Clune said that they tell him
Zoning Board of Appeals - 14 - September 8 , 1976
that that road is absolutely treacherous . Mr . Clune said that the
doctors may know that and they may not know it . Mr . Clune noted that
Mr . VanEpps wants to develop the area and add to the traffic . Mr .
Clune said hopefully some doctors will live up there ^ too . Mr . Clune
said that if the doctors are anything like the doctors and lawyers in
the Town , they have a way of living away from where they work .
12 . Mr . Clune stated that one factor that was not brought to the
Board ' s attention previously , which he has just learned , is that at
the present time the school bus for the six and seven year olds picks
up at DuBois Road and Indian Creek Road , Mr . Clune stated that that
traffic hazard in and of itself is reason enough for the Board to
confirm its decision .
It was noted that the bus is due at 7 : 27 A . M . this morning and
came in at 7 : 54 A . M . It is scheduled between 7 : 00 and 8 : 00 A . M . to
Enfield and goes south to Route 96 . The kindergarten busses are at
other hours . It was stated that the doctors ' office opens at 8 : 30 A . M .
Mr . Clune stated that he wished to ask the doctors questions
concerning the . efforts they have made in seeking other facilities .
Mr . Clune asked Dr . Munchmeyer what the square footage is that they
are going to use in this proposed .building . Dr . Munchmeyer stated
that the building contains 3 , 800 square feet and that he really did
not know the area of the parking lot . Mr . Clune asked Dr . Munchmeyer
how much of the 3 , 800 sq . ft . he will use . Dr . Munchmeyer said that
each doctor will have 1 , 000 sq . ft . Mr . Clune repeated , " you will use
the entire 3 , 800 sq . ft . " Mr . Clune then stated to Dr . Munchmeyer ,
" in the basement there will be 3 , 800 sq . ft . Dr . Munchmeyer said ,
" yes , of unused open space . " Mr . Clune wondered about expansion . Dr .
Munchmeyer said , that he can only say that they have no plans for
expansion , but that he supposed it could happen some day .
Mr . Clune continued and said to Dr . Munchmeyer - - " when you
realized that you were going to be cramped for space , did you go to
the Hirshfeld group and discuss further space ? " Dr . Munchmeyer replied ,
" yes , we did . " Mr . Clune asked if there was a proposal to add an
addition to that building ? Dr . Munchmeyer said , " no . " Mr . Clune
asked if it was discussed ? Dr . Munchmeyer said , " yes . " Mr . Clune asked ,
is it not a fact that you found the proposal unfeasible ? " Dr .
Munchmeyer replied , " yes . " Dr . Munchmeyer continued and stated that
they first considered the possibility of asking Dr . Hirshfeld to expand
our present office . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that it -- does not lend itself
to expansion . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that the other alternative would
be another free - standing building in the northeast corner of Dr .
Hirshfeld ' s property . This would have to be a free - standing building
because of very poor drainage . It would have been constructed like
the Hirshfeld building . Dr . Munchmeyer said that Marshall Erdman is
their architect and that to have the type of facility they needed in
the Professional Building complex was simply beyond their financial
means , i . e . , buying a piece of land of 1 / 2 an acre in the corner . It
did not suit their purposes for what they needed .
Mr . Clune repeated , " you did discuss with Dr . Hirshfeld an
addition7 " Dr . Munchmeyer replied , " yes , it was discussed for about
two months . " Dr . Munchmeyer stated that it was amenable to him
( Hirshfeld ) but he is not practicing in this complex . Mr . Clune said
that then they ( the appellants ) moved on with Dr . Hirshfeld into that
: Zoning Board of Appeals - 15 - September 8 , 1976
group ' s construction of a free - standing building on the same plot . Mr .
Clune asked Dr . Munchmeyer if they did not reject his ( Hirshfeld ' s ) idea
because Dr . Hirshfeld wanted to build the building and did they ( the
doctors ) in fact reject Dr . Hirshfeld ' s offer because they ( the doctors )
wanted to build a building themselves and get the depreciation advant-
age . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that they ( the doctors ) rejected the expansion
of the Hirshfeld building and that they wanted to consider a second
option which was to own their own building and have the depreciation
factor . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that this option was financially more
reasonable to them - - owning their own building on this site or some -
where else . Dr . Munchmeyer pointed out that the Hirshfeld group said
that the rent for the so - called free - standing building was to be $ 24 , 000 . 00
a year which was not financially feasible for them . Mr . Clune stated
to Dr . Munchmever that the doctors then moved away from leasing this
addition to owning a building on Dr . Hirshfeld ' s property and , further
that there was a survey made and a proposal made with respect to that
transaction . Dr . Munchmeyer pointed out that the survey had been made
before all this . Mr . Clune stated , " a proposal was made . " Dr . Munch-
meyer replied , " yes . " Mr . Clune asked , " did those discussions not
embrace 1 , 000 square feet of space per doctor ? " Dr . Munchmeyer said that
that was approximately true and he referred to what he had said earlier
in this meeting - - that they looked at this one - half acre parcel , that
the site is poorly drained , that - there is a 50 ' NYSEG easement , and
that Mr . Hague looked at the site and found it unsuitable for their
needs . Mr . Clune continued and said , " that proposal wherein you would
still buy the land and build your own building was unsatisfactory . "
Mr . Clune continued and said , " you are not suggesting to this Board
that Dr . Hirshfeld and his group are unwilling to build a building or
have you buy property and build on that site ? " Dr . Munchmeyer replied ,
" no it
Mr . Clune asked Dr . Munchmeyer if the doctors did go with Realtor
John Vasse to the Odd Fellows and discussed prices there ? Dr . Munchmeyer
replied , " yes . " Mr . Clune said , " was it not the price that caused you to
reject that site : Dr . Munchmeyer said , " no . " Mr . Clune asked , " were
you not only $ 1 , 000 . 00 apart on this price : Dr . Munchmeyer replied
emphatically , " No , we were certainly never $ 1 , 000 . 00 apart as you suggest . "
Mr . Clune stated that if John Vasse had told him ( Clune ) that they were
$ 1 , 000 . 00 apart , he ( Vasse ) would have been wrong . Dr . Munchmeyer replied ,
eyes 1,
Mr . Clune asked Dr . Munchmeyer if they talked with the County
about leasing space in the " old " Hospital building ? Dr . Munchmeyer
replied that they had not because they need their space now and not
three years from now when the new hospital is finished .
Mr . Francese asked if space will be leased in the " old " hospital
when the new one is completed ? Dr . Munchmeyer said that he did not know
if this is the case . Mr . Clune stated that they intend to lease it .
if he
Mr . Clune asked Dr . Munchmeyer/ knew that the doctors at the medical
facility operated by Drs . Yale , McKeen , Stewart and Baldwin see , on an
average , 35 ' - to 40 patients a day ? Dr . Munchmeyer replied that he would
have no real knowledge of that but that he would guess that that was
true . Mr . Clune asked Dr . Munchmeyer if he knew that they have had . to
increase their parking area to serve these people . Dr . Munchmeyer stated
that he would agree that they increased their parking area but that it
was needed space for their employees . Dr . Munchmeyer continued and
_ Zoning Board of Appeals - 16 - September B , 1976
stated that Orthopedists would probably see many more patients per day
than Internists .
Mr . Clune stated to Dr . Munchmeyer , " is it fair to say that despite
the adverse ruling in December , Dr . Hickes came anyway . Dr . Munchmeyer
nodded .
Mr . Clune stated to the Board that he had attempted to indicate
to them that the only additional facts and input , other than what they
had had before , is the additional efforts that the doctors have made .
Mr . Clune stated that he knew for a fact that the Dr . Hirshfeld group
are willing to lease or build . room . Mr . Clune stated that it is all
personal reasons of the doctors for refusing to deal with Dr . Hirshfeld ,
Mr . Clune stated that the Odd Fellows is also available . Mr . Clune
stated that the hospital is also available .
Mr . Clune stated in summary that the only area that has changed is
that they have been unsuccessful in finding a place . Mr . Clune said
that this is incorrect , there are places available . Mr . Clune stated
that the facts on this proposal are exactly the same ; the hazards are
the same ; the proposal is the same . Mr . Clune stated that there are
no facts that would warrant a complete reversal of what this Board has
decided previously . Mr . Clune stated that the Zoning Ordinance is
designed to assist and fit with particular residences . The other uses
allowed in an R- 30 district are designed to support the residents . Mr .
Clune stated that the zoning ordinance is not designed to accommodate
these doctors .
Mr . Francese spoke to Mr . Gersh and stated that he ( Gersh ) made a
number of statements with regard to the doctors efforts . He asked Mr .
Gersh if he had any documentary evidence to attest to these facts . Mr .
Gersh said that he did not have such evidence with him personally , the
doctors do . Mr . Gersh stated that Dr . Munchmev_ er had testified at
great length to these efforts this evening .
Mr . Francese stated that the Board would now hear from those persons
present who wish to speak in opposition to this proposed clinic .
Mr . William Reynolds rose and stated that he is the third red parcel
up ( north ) on DuBois Road , i . e . , three parcels north of the proposed
clinic . Mr . Reynolds said that he did not want to feel like an ogre .
Mr . Reynolds said that we are lucky to have them ( the doctors ) . Mr .
Reynolds stated that they have a couple of problems up there . He said
that they have lived there for 20 years ; it is a wild area with deer
and rabbits . Mr . Reynolds said that he liked it that wave Mr . Reynolds
said that he would like to see any of the Board members drive down that
road in the winter . Mr . Reynolds said that it is solid ice . Mr .
Reynolds said that he believed that somebody coming out of that drive -
way ( i . e . , cars exiting the proposed lot ) trying to make a left turn - -
there is no . way that a car could get out of the way . He said you could
not avoid a car going 40 m . p . h . north on DuBois . Mr . Reynolds said there
is a water problem . Mr . Reynolds said that during the last dry spell
we had they had to draw water from downtown . Fie said that several
people have drilled wells and come up dry . Mr . Reynolds said that if
you put one building there you will have two - - three - - four - - go in .
Mr . Reynolds said that he did not want to see a lot of blacktop go in
there . Mr . Reynolds said he likes it the way it is .
c
Zoning Board of Appeals - 17 - September 8 , 1976
Mr . Leo Gangl stated that he lives at 140 Indian Creek Road ,
east of the hospital entrance road , 1 / 3 mile from the proposed lot .
Mr . Gangl stated that they have two properties there . Mr . Gangl said
that there is a water problem there . He said that one complex has
already been built there that ruined his water table and he had to
drill another well . Mr . Gangl said that he is concerned that this is .
a problem not so much for this project but for the future . Mr . Gangl
stated that this is a residential area . Mr . Gangl stated that they
like it that way . Mr . Gangl said that he is more concerned with
Indian Creek Road . He said this project will change the character of
the neighborhood . Mr . Gangl said that he urged this Board not to grant
variances to allow anything but residential . Mr . Gangl stated that
there is a hazardous intersection there at Indian Creek Road and
DuBois Road . He said that there is a dip in DuBois Road and you cannot
see cars coming from the north when you are going west on Indian Creek
Road . Mr . Gangl said that a left turn is hazardous .
Mr . Nicholas Sturgeon stated that he lives at 240 DuBois Road and
is the first red parcel beyond the green ones on the colored map , i .- e . ,,
the sixth parcel up from the proposed site and across the street . Mr .
Sturgeon stated that he is surprised at and resented the inference that
people living down the road are not affected by this proposal . Mr .
Sturgeon stated that the traffic will affect these properties . He said
that the doctors have changed the emphasis if not the substance . He
said that it was stated several times in December - - one hundred cars a
day . Mr . Sturgeon said that this will have a domino effect - - increased
use , increased traffic , etc . He said that they moved to the area because
it was a quiet area . He said that they looked a long time . He said
that they realize that zoning of this kind does not provide guarantees .
Mr . Sturgeon stated that the surface of the road that has been mentioned
in the winter is no exaggeration . It is impossible to plow down to the
hard surface because of the nature of the road and the icy condition does
put three or four cars per winter in the ditch trying to turn into his
driveway .
Mr . Bruce Rich stated that he lives at 253 DuBois Road , about a
third of a mile from the site . Mr . Rich stated that he has children
in this area . He said that his concern is traffic . Mr . Rich stated
that a person going to a doctor ' s office is more preoccupied with what
he is going to see the doctor about or coming from seeing the doctor ,
he does not have is mind on what he is doing on the road .
Mrs . William Reynolds ( Kathy ) stood and stated that a lot of people
will drive right by the clinic and will use their ( Reynolds ) driveway to
turn around because they will not know where the clinic is . Mrs .
Reynolds asked if the doctors are so concerned , would they like to buy
her place ?
Mr . Leo Gangl stood again and stated that this is a commercial
project . Mr . Gangl stated that if this goes through , he will ask this
Board to rezone the whole area for commercial properties so that he
can sell out as a commercial property at a profit and get the hell out .
Mr . Gangl said that he had lived there and built his home long before
there was any of this zoning business .
Mr . Donald Ball stated that he lives at 244 DuBois Road about one
quarter mile north of the proposed site and across the street . Mr .
Ball asked if there are any authorized commercial areas in the vicinity .
_ Zoning Board of Appeals - 18 - September 8 , 1976
He asked how the Professional Building is zoned . Mr . Fabbroni stated
that the Professional Building is zoned commercial because of the drug
store that is there . Mr . Ball asked how Candlewyck Apartments are
zoned . Mr . Fabbroni stated that they are zoned Multi - Family . Mr . Ball
stated that these zones were implanted in the area to do what they are
doing now . Mr . Ball stated that a condominium could be put in there - -
inside of five or ten years someone will ask this Board to do this and
they will cite this type of a building and this type of use as pressure
to allow them to do this .
Mr . Francese ruled that he would allow Mr . Gersh or the doctors to
speak . He stated that they had three minutes .
Mr . Gersh noted that Mr . Clune had questioned whether the nature
of what these four doctors will be doing is a clinic . Mr . Gersh cited
Article I , Section 1 , Definitions , of the Zoning Ordinance , paragraph
26 which reads : " A ' clinic ' is a building or any part of a building
which is used for the group practice of medicine by several physicians
in which certain facilities other than reception are shared by the
occupants and in which patients are diagnosed or treated by physicians
specializing in various ailments and practicing as a group . " Mr . Gersh
stated that the other uses in R- 30 permit a hospital , nursing home ,
convalescent home , utility substations , etc . , and these are not purely
immediate area support uses . Mr . Gersh noted that this medical facility
will more substantially serve the immediate area certainly than many of
the other permitted uses . Mr . Gersh stated that Mr . Clune has said
that the doctors are at fault for not having taken the sites proposed .
Mr . Gersh noted that the examination of other sites by these doctors
does not mean that they are at fault in rejecting them . Mr . Gersh said
that they would love to find a place that would make everybody happy .
Mr . Gersh asked Dr . Munchmeyer , in connection with the Hirshfeld
property , how much they were asked to pay for land on which to build in
that complex . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that the price was $ 18 , 000 . 00 for
one -half acre .
Mr . Gersh asked again for Mr . Hague ' s opinion of the Hirshfeld
property . Mr . Hague stated that it was his opinion that the type of
facility that the doctors need could not be built on that site and
further that the drainage is very bad .
Mr . Gersh questioned Dr . Munchmeyer about any holding of stock
requirement in connection with the Hirshfeld property . Dr . Munchmeyer
stated that the doctors would be required to buy stock in the Professional
Office Complex in order to lease from the group .
Mr . Gersh asked Dr . Munchmeyer again about any requirements in
connection with the parking at the Hirshfeld Professional Building com-
plex . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that they would have been required to
maintain the whole parking area all the way down from Trumansburg Road
both back and front . Dr . Munchmev_ er stated that the doctors had felt
that the parking at the Hirshfeld site would have been inadequate and
that it was unfair to have had to maintain 200 yards of parking instead
of 100 feet .
Mr . Gersh stated that he wished to point out that the doctors did
not capriciously reject other sites .
Zoning Board of Appeals - 19 - September 8 , 1976
Mr . Gersh noted that the highway condition and grading of DuBois
Road is a public highway problem which should be addressed to the
County Highway Department ,
Mr . Gersh stated that he , the doctors , the Board , Mr . Clune , and
the people are talking about a permitted facility which is within the
intent of the Zoning Ordinance , Mr . Gersh noted that the new Town
Zoning Ordinance presently being written at one time proposed to have
a single district within which this type of use would be allowed only
in a special and separate zone . The Town Board totally rejected this
proposal . Mr . Gersh stated that it is the legislative intent of the
Zoning Ordinance to have such facilities in R- 30 zones .
Dr . Munchmeyer requested to speak again in connection with the
Odd Fellows site . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that cost was ,, of course , a
factor - - at least $ 250 , 000 . 00 to purchase and renovate it . Dr .
Munchmeyer stated that even more important than the cost was the fact
that they went through that cottage on two occasions with two contrac -
tors trying very hard to make it work . Dr . Munchmeyer stated that the
rooms are odd - sized ; too big to be examining rooms and too small to
be cut in half . Dr . Munchmeyer said , " believe me , I loved that site . "
Mr . Francese , speaking to Dr: Munchmeyer , stated that their ( the
doctors ) major reason for rejecting sites was unsuitability more than
cost . Dr . Munchmeyer replied , " both . "
Mr . Francese asked Dr . Munchmeyer what they would expect to pay .
Dr . Munchmeyer stated that their maximum figure is $ 175 , 000 . 00 .
Mr . Clune stated in summary that there are other available
facilities for these doctors . Mr . Clune stated that he did not want
to give the impression that the doctors have been arbitrary and
capricious in rejecting the Hirshfeld site and the Odd Fellows site .
Mr . Clune said however by the same token they ( the doctors ) have to
look at the financial question . Mr . Clune stated that tax factors are
influencing them . Mr . Clune stated that they do have viable alternatives .
Mr . Clune asked . why the doctors would want that " extra " 3 , 800 sq . ft , in
the " unfinished " , " open " basement ? Mr . Clune stated that the reason
he brought that up is to show that they do have a viable alternative .
Mr . Clune stated that the Hirshfeld property can be more than 3 , 800 sq .
ft . but it only can have one floor . Mr . Clune stated that this area
will change with that 3 , 800 sq . ft . He stated that no Zoning Board of
Appeals would reject their request for dentists or doctors in the
future . Mr . Clune stated that this Board has no compelling reason to
change their view ,
Mr . King asked the doctors if they have drilled a well on this
proposed site . Dr . Munchmeyer replied that a well has been drilled on
the site and produces 20 to 21 gallons a minute with some sulphur noted .
Mr . Francese asked if anyone else wished to speak at this time .
There was no reply .
Mr . Francese stated that this Public Hearing is declared adjourned .
Mr . Francese stated that this is a very complicated . matter . He
stated that normally this Board would adjourn and reach a decision in
` Zoning Board of Appeals - 20 - September 8 , 1976
executive session and then return that same evening and announce
findings of fact and the decision . Mr . Francese stated that at this
particular public hearing the Board will render its decision in about
a week ' s time when the findings and the decision will be read at a
public meeting . After discussion , it was the consensus of the Zoning
Board of Appeals that the matter of the rehearing of the Munchmeyer
application be adjourned to Thursday , September 23 , 1976 , at 7 : 30 p . m .
where at such public meeting the findings and the decision of this Board
will be announced .
Mr . Francese stated that the Petition presented this evening will
be put in the record as well as any correspondence and the colored map .
APPEAL OF DR . MICHAEL GOODFRIEND ET AL , APPELLANTS , FROM THE DECISION
OF THE BUILDING INSPECTOR DENYING BUILDING PERMIT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF
A MEDICAL CLINIC ON DUBOIS ROAD ( A PORTION OF PARCELS NO , 6 - 22 - 2 - 2 . 2
AND 6 - 22 - 2 - 16 ) , ITHACA , N . Y . , SPECIAL APPROVAL BEING REQUIRED FROM
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS UNDER ARTICLE V , SECTION 18 , PARAGRAPH 11 , OF
THE ZONING ORDINANCE .
Mr . Clune voiced his strong objection to the hearing of this new
appeal stating that it was premature because it affects this same piece
of property .
Mr . Francese declared the Public Hearing in the above - noted matter
duly opened at 10 : 10 p . m .
Mr . Fabbroni duly presented the Appeal Form dated August 18 , 1976 ,
signed by David B . Gersh , Esq . as agent for Drs . Goodfriend , Kilgore
and Munchmeyer . Mr . Fabbroni presented the Town Clerk ' s Affidavit of
Posting and Publication of said Appeal in Town Hall and in the Ithaca
Journal on September 1 , 1976 , and September 3 , 1976 , respectively .
Mr . Fabbroni presented the Secretary ' s Affidavit of Service by Mail of
the Notice of Public Hearings , Mr . Fabbroni read the Appeal as published
and as mailed , as noted above .
Mr . Francese asked Mr . Gersh how this proposal is different from
the one this Board has reheard and ruled that Mr . Gersh had ten minutes
to present his client ' s case .
Mr . Gersh stated that Dr . Goodfriend and his colleagues have gone
back to their architect and unlike the changes presented at the rehearing
just presented , which were , in part , screening , set back , screening of
roof appurtenances , etc . , they want an entirely different type of
building . This is an entirely new plan with new architectural designs .
Mr . Gersh said that Mr . Hague , the architect will make this clear .
Mr . Hague stated that what they have tried to do here is present
a new architectural design with an entirely new building , a different
site plan , reduced roof area , changes in the location of the parking area .
Mr . Hague stated that the doctors need the same basic square footage ,
consulting rooms , waiting rooms , etc . Mr . Hague said that they suggest
that by turning the building at right angles , i . e . , 900 , parallel to
® DuBois Road they are presenting a narrower view from DuBois Road , Mr .
Hague stated that the facade that is shown on this plan is actually a
3 ' fence , i . e . , the mansard has been raised three feet . Mr . Hague
likened the roof line to a bathtub . Mr . Hague stated that the roof
will be a mansard roof ; the building will be brick . Mr . Hague said that
a . Zoning Board of Appeals - 21 - September 8 , 1976
one of the biggest changes is the rear location of the parking area .
He said that they have relocated the parking area and made it minimal
south of the proposed building and extending it around to the east .
Mr . Hague stated that this will minimize the black top visible from
DuBois Road , Again , Mr . Hague noted that the parking will be screened
and behind the building . He said that the black top and the building
will be screened in accordance with the zoning ordinance . Mr . Hague
noted that they can move the building back even more than shown . Mr .
Hague noted that they are utilizing less than half of the land . Mr .
Hague stated that it will still be a 3 , 800 sq . ft . building area with a
33 - car parking area . Mr . Hague stated that as the architect for this
project he would propose and recommend a full basement under this
building . He stated that the degree of exposure of the basement is a
little difficult for him as design . engineer to set forth , exact topo -
graphical data and exact set - back as ordered by this Board , being
necessary . Mr . Hague stated that they can make this building less
objectionable to the neighbors . He noted that the materials in this
building are not in any way commercial in looks . Mr . Hague noted that
internal changes include rearranging rooms .
Mr . King asked Mr . Hague again if the square footage is still
3 , 800 sq . ft . Mr . Hague replied , " yes . " Mr . King asked again about the
parking area . Mr . Hague replied , " 33 cars , the same rearranged to be
more practical and desirable . "
Mr . Gersh stated that the extensive comments made by him and the
doctors relative to the prior hearing apply here . Mr . Gersh noted that
his time had run out but that he would request that the Board note
that the appellants will be and are bound by the plans as modified by
the Board and that he is presenting this as a new appeal for their
consideration .
Mr . Francese stated that the action here may not be obvious . Mr .
Francese noted that in the matter of the rehearing a unanimous vote
by the Board is required to reverse the decision rendered in December .
On this new appeal now being heard it requires only a majority vote of
the Board members present to grant the special approval .
Mr . Francese consulted with the Board members and with their
approval stated that what the Board intends to do is allow Mr . Clune
and others to speak and then they will adjourn this public hearing and
reserve decision until September 23rd , 1976 , Mr . Francese stated
that he will ask for an opinion from the Town Attorney ,
Mr . Clune emphatically proclaimed his objection to this audacious
ruse by these doctors in this what he considers to be a very arrogant
power play , a veritable end - around , to circumvent the Town Law , Mr .
Clune firmly stated that the very fact that Mr . Goodfriend would lend
his name to this flim- flaw certainly does not speak very well for this
group . Mr . Clune charged that the architect does not show any of the
things that were shown on the other plans . Mr . Clune charged that this
was an inconsistent proposal . Mr . Clune repeated that this is a plan
to circumvent the Town Law which says that there must be a unanimous
vote . Mr . Clune pointed out that the Board has upheld the decision of
the Building Inspector to deny this building permit and that the Board
has now reheard the matter . Mr . Clune stated firmly that he would not
participate in this public hearing .
Zoning Board of Appeals - 22 - September 8 , 1976
Dr . I: ilgore rose and stated that he wished to register his
objection to Mr . Clune ' s use of the words audacious , arrogant , f_ lim-
flam in connection with his colleagues and himself .
Mr . Gangl entered his strong objection on the grounds that this
is improper under the set up of our laws . Mr . Gangl strongly protested
stating that this is not a new project .
Mr . John Howe rose from the audience and stated that he wished to
express his compliments to the Board of Zoning Appeals for the excellent
manner in which they have handled these matters . Mr . Howe stated that
he was very well satisfied .
Upon Motion , Mr . Francese declared the Public Hearing in the
Goodfriend Appeal duly adjourned at 10 : 26 p . m .
Mr . Francese reminded all those present that the adjourned hearings
will be held on September 23rd , 1976 , at 7 : 30 p . m .
SECRETARY ' S NOTE :
The record should show that the Public Hearing scheduled by the
Board for this evening at 9 : 00 p . m . to hear the Appeal of Louis R .
Webster was rescheduled for 8 : 30 p . m . on Thursday , September 23rd ,
1976 . The members of the Board duly consulted with Mr . Webster at
9 : 00 p . m . and Mr . Webster agreed that he would be happy to have the
matter postponed to another evening . Mr . Webster stated that a
postponement would create no hardship for him .
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller , Secretary ,
Peter K . Francese , Chairman
Zoning Board of Appeals