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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-03-22-PB TOWN OF ULYSSES PLANNING BOARD 03/22/05 Approved August 18, 2005 Present: A. Rachun- Zoning Officer, Planning Board Member-Rose Hilbert, David Means, Loren Hammond, Rod Porter, David Tyler, John Wertis . George Frantz, Planning Consultant Excused : Margot Chiuten Meeting was called to order at 7 : 11 pm Special Planning meeting to discuss the Zoning Map as part of the process for the Zoning Ordinance . Mr. Frantz stated Mr. Austic wanted to make sure the Planning Board understands what happens when a water district is going through an Ag district . When the Town takes possession of a water district —after Bolton Point approves it-at that point there can be no additional hookups from the Ag District. Mr. Tyler asked if hookups are allowed up that point . Mr. Frantz replied that was correct because it is as if the water district did not exist until the town takes possession. Mr. Hammond asked how you could hook up to something that does not exist. Mr. Frantz answered that you can build a lot then request a hook up . Mr. Frantz stated once it is the Ag district those people cannot hook in, it is a long procedure and can take up to four years . If the farmer sells all the frontage lots out he then cannot denotification ad goes away and if those people do not like the smell of manure or pesticides they can complain, he loses a lot of his rights for farming. Mr. Frantz stated that once it is transferred- individuals can put a well on a lot, but not hook onto the water; the only exception is a hardship such as a contaminated well (i . e . petroleum in Jacksonville) . Mr. Hammond asked why it takes 4 years . Mr. Frantz replied they only revise the Ag District every 7 years ; the Maps are done by the county Agri Farmland Protection Board. They are currently working on the Ag district 1 across the lake and the process takes a year. Mr. Frantz informed the members that last Thursday the Town Board requested the Planning Board review the Zoning Map and review for any changes to be done ; if a district is to be changed it has to be done by the majority of the Planning Board, the minimum of 4 votes is necessary to change a parcel . If anyone at anytime is not comfortable with the majority they are free to contact the Town Board . Mr. Tyler stated one area that jumped out at him are some land that is East of Krums Corners Road and North of Wilkins Road in terms of soil type, farm and large acreage. Mr. Hammond stated that the lots in question are all actively farmed by various individuals. Mr. Tyler stated according to the soil map and current usage should it be designated moderate residential or not. Mr. Rachun questioned why that would change it based on the soil map , either it would be Ag or not. Planning Board 2 03/22/2005 Mr. Tyler staffed should it be taken out of the Ag. Mr. Rachun stated right now it is moderate density, he understood the possibility it could be rural residential . Mr. Tyler stated that he believes the concern is the size of the parcels ; this has been brought up before in different meetings . The parcels are currently pretty much Agricultural and the characteristics of Krum Corners Road are similar to this . Mr. Rachun indicated that is also consistent with the Comprehensive Plan . Mr. Tyler stated that his feeling is that this area is pretty much gone as far as intense residential development. Mr. Porter questioned if you were to remove some of this what would you change . Mr. Tyler stated he would be inclined to take a little area on each side of Krums Corners Road out and make it Ag use . Mr. Hammond stated he would be inclined to take area just across from this . Mr. Porter stated that would remove road frontage from the district. It means that this area is being farmed and it is fairly high density. Mr. Tyler asked if they really wanted to have this area be a little blob of suburbia. Mr. Frantz added that if they really want to foster cluster development it would have to be done where a water district is . Mr. Hammond commented that it makes sense to have development access the side roads vs. the main corridors for safety reason. 1 Mr. Porter stated that it would be possible to have this area developed . Mr. Frantz stated that there are really not any access points onto 96 from the side roads . Mr. Hammond he would like to see the section designated as Ag stay as such, but have the area around designated as high density housing for future growth . Mr. Tyler stated that area has high probability to go to high density housing ; but the question continues to arise is how people would access this area. Mr. Rachun stated that whatever we do does not change the county Ag map . Mr. Tyler said apparently this is how it will be thus felt the meeting should move on . Mr. Hammond stated he still feels the side corridor should be the focal point as far as • development. — if this was changed he would feel comfortable with the area as it is . Mr. Frantz stated that he did not see an issue of moving the yellow area down; there are about 2 square miles of red area and considering a range of 800 to a 1000 dwellings in the red area . Mr. Frantz stated that you should have about 3 times the land you believe you would need, thus the likely potential would be 300-400 units over the next 10-20 years . The reason ii is red is efficiency, it is a transportation corridor and there is water. If a good developer comes in and does efficient cluster development; with water and sewer the potential ] is there for development . Mr. Tyler stated that having the red area being bigger than the Village of Trumansburg indicated to him that the area has not been planned for. i Planning Board 3 03/22/2005 Mr. Frantz stated that if you have a farm surrounded by development it can heavily impact its viability, it is tougher to run farm equipment hack and forth on the land . Mr. Frantz asked if there is enough interest on the board to pursue this . Mr. Porter stated that the area between Wilkins, Krums Corners and Perry City should stay as is ; it would make more sense to alter the West Side of Krums Corners . Mr. Hammond stated that the area Mr. Austic penciled in. (Stick and Stone Farm) and the area across the road there is a row of houses tight against the road and around them is good looking farm . Mr. Rachun stated the Wilkins Road is a hardship access with a stone bridge that a tractor cannot get onto , it is also all woods in that area . Mr. Frantz said the area is very small and what he could see happening is somebody buying it and carving it into three acre lots with large homes aka Lakewatch in Lansing. Mr. Hammond asked how - there is no frontage . Mr. Frantz stated they can build a road , thus he recommends it left as moderate density so if it does go to development it will most efficiently use the land . Mr. Hammond stated that what he believes will happen first is the first two spots on Route 96 will fill in with strips of little houses along the 96 . Mr. Frantz stated that is where the Planning Board would enact their right to say no to allow access to the back lots to the highway. Mr. Hammond asked based on what- will there be subdivision on single divisions of property. Mr. Frantz stated there is a very good reason for having these single lots in the regulation ; there is no control on single lots . In the Town of Ithaca it was 10 to 15 minutes before the Planning Board but at least they could review to make sure it conforms to Zoning and making sure future opportunities were not being cut off Mr. Hammond asked if it is in the ordinance. Mr. Frantz stated it is NYS law ; if you want to subdivide this lot —a public or private road would have to be built to serve these lots . Mr. Frantz asked how many in favor in leaving the red area as it is . Mr. Frantz offered to lay down some guidelines that he has worked with before 1 . Contiguity- in terms of Agricultural land , it is not effective to zone individual parcels, especially in terms of development, 2 . Soils-the soils in this area may not be great 3 . Public utilities-this is a minus for Agricultural zoning. Mr. Hammond stated he just hoped it is clear what is going to happen in the red area. Once water comes in there will be house after house along the entire stretch unbroken. There is no incentive to have a Lakewatch unless something changes , current developments along this corridor have empty lots- such as Wolfe Lane the desire for this type is not happening. But what is happening as has been seen in Ulysses is houses placed along corridors in rows . Mr. Frantz indicated that Wolfe Lane was poor planning, there are three huge houses sharing a driveway and has nothing to do with the conventional housing market . Mr. Rachun indicated that having the Hospital on this side of the lake, and the Planning Board 4 03 /22/2005 Town of Ulysses-the draw for us is Trumansburg School District. A lot of people coming to Ulysses are coming due to the school or to be on the lake. The Wilkins Road — Krums Corners Road area tend to be in Ithaca City School District which detracts from building on this corridor. Mr. Hammond stated that he would like to go on record that he does not like the idea of having an unbroken stretch from corner of Van Dorn Road to the Ithaca line . Because what will happen are houses will be build right along the road in strip development which is bad for public health and safety and bad for appearance and rural character of the town . The decision to leave the "Red Area" near Wilkins Road-Krums Corners on the map as is was called to a vote . Motion to accept was passed with 4 votes, Mr. Hammond and Mr. Tyler voted against. Mr. Hammond and Mr. Tyler stated that they did not want big changes but felt that change should have been made thus they voted against . Mr. Porter stated that he would like to address the red on the South Side of Rabbit Run- it is part of Taughannock Creek is it is quite steep . Mr. Tyler stated that near South Street there are some areas that are quite nice and could be developed . Mr. Frantz stated that there is an area he will be writing to request a specific area near Taughannock be changed to larger setbacks . Mr. Frantz stated that Sue had ideas that she would like to see conservation areas be designated in this area. If it is a conservation district then there would be no building, it will fall within the Park. Land designation . The other areas such as Smith Woods , the Cayuga Nature Center are designated conservation districts ; it takes out accessory uses such as business , Bed & Breakfast , and only 8 -9 uses with special permits can be issued . Mr. Means stated that most of the Conservation districts are mostly NYS or Girl Scouts , Not- for-profit ownership . Mr. Rachun said then it does not make sense, these people would not build on them . Mr. Frantz said true, unless one of them goes under or chooses to sell the property such as Camp Barton . Mr. Tyler stated that from the look of it only three property owners are involved on the South part. The Kyle ' s, then the field below Rabbit Run and South Street, it is a wild and pretty area. Mr. Rachun stated part of that had been sold off Mr. Means stated that maybe part of that should be made Rural Residential . Mr. Frantz stated the next red area is the Golf Course with 4 or 5 houses on large lots . Mr. Porter questioned a darker yellow portion on Duddleston Road behind Maguire ' s he suggested it be made red all the way thru the east corner of the blue . Motion to change this area — all were in favor. Mr. Hammond stated there is a lot line that extends almost straight across Falls Road from Duddleston ; he would like to propose that this triangle thus created would be about here and removed and go back to R1 . His reasoning is having it extend this far out really encourages high density sprawl along that road because there is a lot of frontage . • Planning Board 5 03/22/2005 available, and does not encourage dense mode development. There is room in the Village of Trumansburg to be developed if there was pressure to do so . He is afraid if this is included there will be people stretched out vs . concentrated growth. Mr. Frantz illustrated this area (refer to audio tape) on the map at the meeting. Mr. Rachun stated that his feeling on Duddleston Road is that if they need to open it up it could be done up above. Mr. Means and Mr. Porter discussed several variations of zone changes and boundary changes, concerns regarding the Black Diamond Trail were discussed . Mr. Porter stated he would go for it if goes to the lot line . Motion to accept this. Voted- all were in favor. Mr. Frantz stated that the other areas in red not be discussed or changed to promote the growth of Trumansburg. Motion to accept this. Voted- all were in favor. Mr. Frantz offered to discuss some oddities in red — lake front . Mr. Hammond asked why the red was near a hamlet instead of attaching it to . a hamlet. Mr. Frantz stated it was there to not upset the Butterfield ' s ; Mr. Porter offered that it should be attached to the hamlet and Mr. Hammond offered that he appreciates the Butterfield ' s position however it should be hamlet . Mr. Frantz agreed especially since it is in a water district . Mr. Hammond offered that the area abutted to the hamlet be changed to hamlet . Motion to accept this. Voted- all were in favor. Mr. Means asked what the areas on the left hand side were . Mr. Frantz indicated that these are lots that were there and are fairly small , the problem is they are legal non conforming use but have grandfathered in . if they desire an addition etc . they have to put a proposal to the BZA.. Mr. Hammond asked about uses that would be allowed that aren ' t consistent with the agriculture around it . This area is moderate density- which is professional office- questioned if this is by special permit or not . Mr. Frantz stated he does not view this as a burden on the people but it could be on the Town for the quantity of BZA requests that could come in . Mr. Rachun indicated that if this is the case there is concern for the areas along the lake- as many of them require BZA approval for changes . Mr. Hammond. stated the permitted uses between the two zones are almost identical ; however the special permit uses are broader. However, since the courts have declared a Town can deny special permits . Mr. Tyler offered that Mr. Rachun had brought up a broader point that one particular parcel that is a particular PDD are there other areas that should be discussed . Mr. Hammond stated that due to the size of the lots and the definitions he could see it being designated as an R2 in terms of use because the permitted uses are basically the same as Al . Mr. Frantz stated that in that case anything under two acres should be red . Planning Board 6 03/22/2005 Mr. Porter offered that on Swamp College Road there appears to be a cluster of small lots . Mr. Rachun stated that there are lot of these all over the town . The rural residential between the Girl Scout Camp and Taughannock have a zillion 50 to 75 foot lots and that is rural residential so why is there a question of these areas . Mr. Frantz stated that when he did this map the lot lines were on it. This area stood out as far as having lots that were small-like an acre or less and the houses were there . Thinking of the Town ' s resources he was concerned with how much the BZA would want to do . Mr. Rachun stated why not have the Zoning Ordinance say all lots prior to whenever it is adopted existing lots are legally conforming lots . Mr. Hammond offered that the red areas (as indicated on audio tape) changing all the small red areas except Waterburg to R2 Districts . They would be changed from R2 to RI for the map zones (Red to Orange) Motion to accept this. Voted- all were in favor. Mr. Frantz offered that the situation in Waterburg is if they do not get their hamlet district they will secede . The 1865 map indicated it as a hamlet-in some ways it is still a hamlet. The logic here is to allow more intensive residential . Mr. Tyler asked what Waterburg is classified as now, they are currently R2 and Moderate Density. Mr. Hammond indicated that a problem for towns is that they have concentrated development in certain areas and stretches between that are not concentrated . Mr. Rachun indicated that he advises to leave Waterburg as it is on the map . Mr. Frantz offered that the size roughly coincides with what is in Waterburg currently, the bell of the R2 is around it. The alternative is hamlet and surrounding with R1 . Mr. Tyler stated he would be inclined to make it all hamlet-rather than having the separate zones . Mr. Means indicated he liked Mr. Tyler ' s idea as well . Mr. Frantz proposed Waterburg would become all Hamlet district, the arm of red sticking out would change to an R1 . Motion to accept this. Voted- all were in favor. Mr. Frantz stated there are red and orange parcels coming up the lake. Mr. Rachun requested the lot map and indicated that there are R2 and small carved up parcels on both sides of Kraft Road that are currently R1 . At the last meeting creating a lake district was discussed — this would allow zoning on the lake, building on stilts out over the water. Mr. Frantz indicated that a boat house would be an accessory use, if something goes into the lake ( i . e ., a dock ) there are permits required . If push came to shove- NYS would say Ulysses has no authorization over the water. Mr. Hammond asked if there would be any other reason for a lake district . Mr. Rachun offered that there are more places that could potentially require Site Plan Review, due to the slope of the district. Planning Board 7 03/22/2005 Mr. Tyler asked if there was a reason the read area was not carried throughout the lake area. Mr. Frantz offered that most of the lots exceeded 200 feet or more in width. Mr. Rachun noted that along Willow Creek Road there were a lot of lots that were 180- 187 feet in width . Between Taughannock Park and the Girl Scout Camp there were smaller lots as well . • Mr. Frantz stated his original logic was that there seemed to be a substantial Rural Residential requirement but also the lots were fairly deep . Another concern he had was additional subdivision if the .R2 designation was give . Mr. Tyler asked if there was too much R2 within this area. Mr. Frantz offered that there was depth to a lot of these lots that whereas the lake frontage is taken could still have the potential to have subdivisions within these lots . A lively discussion ensued regarding the remaining parcels all suggestions were provided to the Town Board . Motion to adjourn presented —approved unanimously . Respectfully submitted . Robin Carlisle Peck Secretary 1