HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-05-27 - TB TOWN OF ULYSSES
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
MAY 27, 2004
PRESENT : Supervisor Doug Austic, Town Councilpeople Lee Scott, Robert Weatherby;
Roxanne Marino and Don Ellis ; Town Clerk Marsha Georgia; Attorney Bruce Wilson;
Deputy Supervisor Richard Coogan.
Others Present: no one in attendance.
Supervisor Austic called the meeting to order at 8 PM following the Stormwater Public
Informational Meeting.
Planning Board Appointments
Mr. Austic stated that the first item on the agenda is to appoint two new members to the
Planning Board after the interviews of the following residents : (Mr. Weatherby and Mr.
Ellis were absent from the interviews)
• Margo Chiuten
• Elizabeth Thomas
• Don Schlather
• Gerald VanOrden
Ms. Marino moved for the nomination of Margo Chiuten to fill the unexpired term of
Richard Coogan expiring on December 31 , 2009 .
Ms. Marino feels with Ms. Chiuten ' s background would add a lot of scope to the
Planning Board. Ms. Chiuten has a lot of access to information and a lot of experience
dealing with planning boards from the other side of the table so she understands where
they may be coming from. Ms . Chiuten lives in the Hamlet of Jacksonville, which will be
an unrepresented area with the resignation of Mr. Coogan.
Mr. Scott seconded the motion. Mr. Weatherby and Mr. Ellis felt they could not vote on
this nomination because they had missed the interviews .
Mr. Austic aye
Mr. Scott aye
Mr. Weatherby abstained
Ms . Marino aye
Mr. Ellis abstained
Adopted.
Mr. Scott moved to nominate Gerald VanOrden to fill the unexpired term of George
Kennedy expiring on December 31 , 2008 .
Mr. Scott stated that Mr. VanOrden lives on the out skirts of the Town just on the other
side of the Village limits and he thinks he has had water problems but his background is
that he is a retired school teacher so that he has had to work with groups . Mr. Scott feels
that he has a good head on his shoulders and feels that he could have a calming effect on
the Board and he has the time. Mr. Scott feels he would do a good job .
Ms. Marino asked if it could be discussed the thoughts on other residents interviewed.
Mr. Wilson stated that a motion has been made.
Mr. Austic seconded this motion to appoint Mr. VanOrden and called for any discussion.
Ms . Marino stated that she had other people that she is more in favor of Ms . Marino
feels that Elizabeth Thomas would have a lot of the things — she has a good agricultural
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background. Ms. Marino stated that she is the person that she would like to argue for or
against with Gerald more than the other two .
Mr. Wilson stated that procedurally what could be done is rule to table Mr. Scott ' s
motion and raise another motion.
Ms . Marino moved to table the foregoing motion on the floor, seconded by Mr. Scott.
Unanimously approved.
Ms. Marino feels that Elizabeth Thomas ' s attributes are much the same as Gerald
Van Orden, she would have a calming effect, and she has a lot of experience with certain
conflict resolutions and coming to a consensus with broad groups . It is Ms. Thomas ' s job
to travel around and deal with Cooperative Extension all over the State to get people to
come to agreement on things . She also has a background on agriculture and expressed
several times' of her real understanding as to what farmers are dealing with. Ms . Thomas
also has the best connection to the lake community of anybody and the Town does not
have any representation from that area at this time .
Mr. Austic stated that he felt that Don Schlather could be good . Ms . Marino said yes she
feels that they all could be good but is trying to focus on who could do the better job . Mr.
Austic commented that there would be another opening in January.
Mr. Ellis stated that he could be pretty happy to support Mr. VanOrden if he knew him,
Elizabeth Thomas on the other hand Mr. Ellis knows and is a good person and agrees
with Ms. Marino previously stated.
Mr. Scott mh ved, seconded by Mr. Austic to nominate Mr. Gerald VanOrden to fill the
unexpired term of George Kennedy expiring December 31 , 2008 .
Mr. Austic called for discussion. Ms . Marino repeated her thoughts on Elizabeth
Thomas.
Mr. Austic Called the vote.
Mr. Austic . aye
Mr. Scott ' aye
Mr. Weatherby abstained
Ms . Marino' nay
Mr. Ellis nay
Motion failed.
Ms. Marino moved, seconded by Mr. Ellis to nominate Elizabeth Thomas to fill the
unexpired term of George Kennedy expiring December 31 , 2008 .
Mr. Austic nay
Mr. Scott nay
Mr. Weatherby abstained
Ms . Marino aye
Mr. Ellis aye
Motion failed.
The two Bc'lard Members, who missed the interviews, will schedule to meet with the
residents and bring this up for vote again when they can be more informed.
Mr. Austic asked if the Board was interested in appointing a Chairman for the Planning
Board and asked for any nominations. No current Planning Board Member have come
forward with a firm commitment to act as Chairman of the Planning Board .
Mr. Coogan reported that he has been in contact with John Wertis because of a couple of
comments that lead Mr. Coogan to believe he would make a very good candidate for
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Chairman. Mr. Wertis stated that he would be willing to be Chairman if the Town Board
wished him to serve. Mr. Coogan is recommending John Wertis for Chair because he
thinks he would be the one that the Planning Board would be fine with. Mr. Coogan feels
that anything else could have extreme problems and could be a conflict . Mr. Coogan
heard that Mr. Tyler had said he would be willing to do it for a couple of months over the
summer and Mr. Hammond might be willing to do it in the fall .
Ms. Marino is concerned with Mr. Wertis being totally new that perhaps a Chairman
could be done as an interim Chair, like Mr. Tyler or someone that knows it while John
learns and see if John could really do it.
Mr. Austic stated that in six months a Chairman would be reappointed at the January
meeting.
Mr. Coogan stated that Mr. Tyler is on record at a public meeting saying he has too much
'conflict of interest to serve as Chair. Mr. Austic stated he served previously and was not
a good Chair.
Mr. Austic moved, seconded by Mr. Scott to nominate John Wertis as the Chairman to
the Planning Board.
Ms . Marino is concerned with his lack of experience on the Board. Mr. Austic stated that
he is the kind of person that will take the time to figure it out . Mr. Scott feels he will be
very capable to run the meeting and if he does not know something he will stop and ask.
Mr. Coogan stated that John had asked him for help pulling it together and Mr. Coogan is
willing to do that. Mr. Ellis stated that he would support John.
Mr. Austic aye
Mr. Scott aye
Mr. Weatherby aye
Ms . Marino aye
Mr. Ellis aye
Adopted.
Mr. Coogan will contact Ms. Chiuten and Mr. Wertis that they have been appointed and
come in to the clerk ' s office and sign the Oath of Office .
Zoning Ordinance
Mr. Austic previously distributed the comments that were received from Ed Marx of
Tompkins County Planning and Crystal Buck the planner who represents the Planning
Department at the Agriculture and Farmland Protection Board.
Ms . Marino questioned that the Board had not seen Mr. Austic ' s original response to Mr.
Marx . She wanted to be reassured that Mr. Austic had mention that the Planning Board
had voted to go forward with the 30/70 .
Mr. Ellis stated that he was under the understanding when he left the last two Town
Board meetings that the temper of the Town Board was for the 30/70 in Al .
Mr. Austic stated that he was under the understanding that it would be looked into .
Ms . Marino stated that she left that meeting thinking we were suppose to bring to this
meeting specific pieces of information to discuss .
Mr. Austic stated that is what we are doing. Mr. Austic stated that he had said he would
contact Mr. Marx and get information.
Mr. Ellis stated that he had offered to do a whole bunch of work, none of which is done
which he apologizes for. If the Town Board wants this pursued further he still will but he
thinks at this point it maybe a wasted effort.
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Mr. Austic stated that is what he is wondering — should we do this (referring to the
information from Mr. Marx) . Mr. Austic asked Attorney Wilson what he had found out
about deeds .
Mr. Wilson stated that you are not going to get restricted covalence, which is what he
explained at the last meeting, but you can file, just like is done with a subdivision, a
notice. It is not binding it is just a notice on all the parcels that would be subject to
review. For future owners looking at the abstract of title will be alerted. There would be
no liability on the Town to do that a more or less an end game.
Mr. Austic stated that there are 145 to 146 parcels .
Ms . Marino corrected that and said there were 169 parcels per George.
Mr. Austic stated that the point is if you were going to do that you would not necessary
have to do until a person sold part of the parcel so you would know that it had started.
Mr. Ellis stated that ounce this is established there is no need to really note precisely
about the parcel until it gets divided.
Mr. Wilson said that he is not saying there couldn ' t be mistakes in this — it would not be a
perfect system.
Mr. Ellis feel 's that you may find a lot of very disappointed landowners, if that notice is
not there from the first because what if the first action that is done is divided and no other
could be done.
The filing fee would be $20 to $25 and whatever time it takes to figure out.
Mr. Austic stated than the question is are we going to hold off and think about all this or
do we want to just say like Ed Marx says somewhere around 300/350 feet for road
frontage in Al!t and than also say within five years we will watch this and figure out a
system to modify the zoning ordinance, so that puts the whole rest of the zoning
ordinance into effect which may be there are some good things in there.
Mr. Scott stated that what he is concerned about is if the Town Board was to error he
thinks that the Board would be a missed to error on the side of being over aggressive on
this. If we error he says we should error on the side of conservative. There are a lot of
other things in the proposed ordinance that are very good and should be in place.
Mr. Austic feels that there are a lot of things to be done before coming up with a plan
where we are! basically saying we want to save open space . Because the original concept
in the Agricultural Zone is not saving open space. If now the concept is going for saving
agricultural land and open space, than we need to define open space . We need some kind
of definition and everyone has a different idea and than it will have to be determined that
we cannot do it all. Are there places to save and places willing to sacrifice? hi Mr.
Austic ' s opinion these are kinds of things to consider before we actually pass something
that we have not really talked about for only a couple of months.
Mr. Ellis stated that part of what Mr. Austic is describing is a view shed survey and than
looking into the issue of buying rights . All those things are not less complicated than
what is sitting in front of the Board. We are trading one set of complexities for another
and we are doing nothing with the time too, which may or may not be a thing we should
be doing. Mr. Ellis appreciates Mr. Scott ' s comment, coupled with the fact that there are
a lot of things about the proposed zoning ordinance that we really should have in place by
now.
Mr. Austic asked again — Does the Town Board want to let it go or put something into
effect now and say within so many years we will do the open space thing and all the other
stuff and get a plan together? In the meantime we could see how many lots are sold in
four or five years in these places and maybe it is not as big a concern.
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Mr. Scott stated that he just did a little figuring and on a 300 ' lot — on that lot and
building a big house ( 1800 square feet), put a two car garage on the end, which is a total
of 90" long, you still would have 210 ' of open space so therefore you have 67% of that
300 ' road frontage as open space.
Mr. Ellis stated that if you did this over and over again you would have what we now
have on Perry City Road or the impression. Mr. Ellis feels that is very clear that this is
what people do not want.
Ms . Marino said that it is rural character, we need to define this open space — she agrees
with Mr. Austic . Ms . Marino stated that she has been thinking for a while that this is
complicated (30/70) and that we need more information. She is all for it and would not
like to see it dropped because she feels that it is very forward looking and it is what a lot
of people are trying to use it and trying to work throw the details and since we don ' t have
a huge amount of development pressure projected for the very near future we have the
opportunity to really study this and look at it in the contents of the comprehensive plan
that is suppose to be revised and decide what our town thinks rural character is and than
implement this into it. Now here in comes the probable controversy is going to come.
Ms. Marino stated that if we go forward with a similar thing she would be strongly in
favor of the road frontage that is in the draft ordinance now because it has been out for
public review and the previous Town Board agreed on in December, which is the 500 feet
/ 3 acres . That is pretty feasibly different in terms of the density of houses you can get
along frontage strips. Ms . Marino reviewed some data she had put together in reference
to this .
The board discussed the fix ratio frontage. It was discussed that very possibly the smaller
frontage lots should be taken out of the agricultural district .
Mr. Austic asked, then am I hearing we should say a lot frontage and go for it?
Mr. Ellis stated that if this could be an A or B discussion but it is not we have a C in here
and he is not sure why we have it. It seems to him that we are choosing here between
advancing this 30/70 or falling back to what was in December the 500 ' , but he does not
hear so much enthusiasm for the 500 ' . If the alternative is going with 300 ' or 350 ' he has
problems with that it is way too much like the R1 District so why are we creating
something slightly different. It does not address the open space very well at all and the
other thing he does not like about it is that if you go to 300/350 the pressure is all gone
and nothing will be done about it. The 500 ' has been discussed out in public, already
been shot at and been accommodated in some ways, we would keep the pressure to do
something better. Mr. Ellis feels 300/350 is not good.
Mr. Austic stated that 350 is one and a half times what it is now, so it is better than now.
Ms. Marino stated than why go back from what the Town Board put in the draft
ordinance in December.
The general consensus of the Board is to not do the 30/70 now, but not abandon the idea
and get good definitions of rural character, open space, etc .
Mr. Scott stated the other thing to be looked into is buying property rights .
Mr. Weatherby commented on the diagrams Ms . Marino had prepared asking her about
the diagram showing lots less than 300 ' , and looking at this a large percentage of the
property is all bigger than 300 ' . He states that this chart shows that this is not an extreme
problem — you have less than 10% of the property in an Al District falls under 300 ' , 90%
is more than 300 ' .
Mr. Austic needs to know what the Board would like to do — go on or put the ordinance
on hold.
Mr. Ellis stated that he has no problem going forward with the 500 ' frontage right now.
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Mr. Weatherby stated that he is not in favor of the 500 ' frontage ; he would compromise
some where in between and may be a 3 -acre minimum or something.
Mr. Scott also feels the 500 ' frontage is too large, 200 is not big enough but at the same
token he does not believe that a minimum lot size is necessary. I do not see why we need
a minimum.
Mr. Austic agreed with this — we need a frontage . The health department will take care
of the minimum acreage.
Mr. Ellis stated the frontage is the issue — that is what he likes about the 30/70.
Mr. Scott stated that 400 ' is twice what the Town requires now and he thinks that is a
reasonable compromise.
Ms. Marino is curious to know why 500 ' in December was okay and it is not now.
Mr. Weatherby stated that it was not okay with him in December — he couldn ' t speak for
anyone else.
Mr. Austic stated that a meeting in November he brought forward the idea of 500 '
frontage as a compromise to the 700 ' previously discussed at a joint meeting with the
Planning Board. It was a general consensus of the Board Members present at that
meeting to go with 500 ' frontage at the time, for discussion— no formal vote was taken.
Mr. Scott moved, seconded by Mr. Weatherby to use 400 ' frontage in the Al District and
lot put in a ninnimum lot size .
The Board discussed to continue to review ordinance. Mr. Ellis asked if that could be
part of the motion. Mr. Ellis offered a friendly amendment — to return to the question of
the apportioned lots at the regular October 2004 Town Board meeting.
Mr. Scott accepted Mr. Ellis ' friendly amendment. Mr. Austic called for the vote to the
following resolution on the floor:
BE IT RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Ulysses agrees to use a
minimum 400 ' frontage requirement in the Al District with no minimum acreage.
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Ulysses will
return to they discussions of the apportioned lots at the Regular Town Board Meeting in
October 200,4.
Ms. Marino stated that she would like to see a minimum acreage because for some of the
parcels that are long but do not have much acreage so it will force them to be a little less
strict, because they will have to be a little bit bigger than the minimum frontage. Ms .
Marino stated that she just thinks it would spread it out more — she does not think this a
big deal and she would rather see 500 ' but she is willing to go along with 400 ' with this .
To get the 2;00 ' circle the Health Department requires you would have at least over two
acres .
Mr. Austic aye
Mr. Scott aye
Mr. Weatherby aye
Ms. Marino; nay
Mr. Ellis nay
Adopted.
Mr. Austic will advise George Frantz to make the changes, do SEQR, and George will
have someone edit it and this should make it ready for a public hearing.
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Ms . Marino stated that she could submit other comments even though she feels they will
not be considered.
Hearing no further business Mr. Weatherby moved, seconded by Mr. Scott to adjourn.
Unanimously approved, meeting adjourned at 9 : 25 PM .
Respectfully submitted,
Marsha L. Georgia
Ulysses Town Clerk
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TOWN OF ULYSSES
STORMWATER PUBLIC INFORMATIONAL MEETING
MAY 27 , 2004
PRESENT : Supervisor Doug Austic , Town Councilpeople Lee Scott, Robert Weatherby;
Roxanne Marino and Don Ellis ; Town Clerk Marsha Georgia; Attorney Bruce Wilson;
Deputy Supervisor Richard Coogan .
Others Present: no one in attendance .
Supervisor Austic opened the Public Informational Meeting at 7 : 35 PM and stated that
Mr. Coogan is going to present what the Town has done to-date with the NOI and other
municipalities and what we need to accomplish in the future.
Mr. Coogan stated that part of the MS4 Stormwater Plan is that once a year the Town is
required to hold an informational meeting for the public and submit to the DEC an annual
report of the progress made in the Town on stormwater issues as outlined in the Notice of
Intent (NOI) from Ulysses passed in March of 2003 . . Mr. Coogan provided to the Town.
Board the Stormwater Management Program Annual Report — the one that is being
submitted to what has been done this year.
The Phase II small Municipal Separate Storm Sewer Systems (MS4) affects the more
urbanized areas of Tompkins County. Ulysses has two areas designated as MS4, the land
between Cayuga Lake and Route 89 up to the Girl Scout Camp and a very small section
on Route 96 on the very Southern edge of the Town. This second area has been excluded
from the NOI because of its small size . The other aspect of stormwater management is
runoff from construction sites . This requirement is not confined to the MS4 but has
implications for builders on 1 to 5 acres of disturbance and more stringent requirements
on sites with over five acres of disturbance .
To effectively meet the requirements for MS4, the municipalities and other concerned
agencies has formed a coalition called the Stormwater Group that applies for grants,
partners in public out reach programs , works on unified ordinances and laws, and
coordinates training programs . The coalition consists of the MS4 municipalities in
Tompkins County, Tompkins County Planning, Cornell Environmental School
representatives, Cornell Corporative Extension, the Cayuga Lake Intermunicipal
Organization, Tompkins County Soil and Water, Cayuga Lake Watershed Network, and a
number of other not for profit organizations .
The focus of last year as the Stormwater got started was to raise public awareness of the
hazards of storm water run off and what constitutes runoff One of the things the group
will be working on in the coming year is implementing controls to reduce the damage
from storm water. Right now the shelf at the lower end of Cayuga Lake (South of
McKinney Point, over by the Village of Lansing) is listed as a 303 (d) area which means
it is highly stressed. It is expected that DEC will reclassify this portion of the Lake as
impaired this year which is one level worse and this will raise additional concerns .
This last year the Stormwater Group held workshops, monitoring classes, school out
reach programs, festivals, well testing, etc . to increase public awareness. Tompkins
County is a very involved community and we received high marks for this work that was
done through organizations such as the Cooperative Extension. , the IO, Cayuga Lake
Network, Soil and Water Resources Council, and Tompkins County Planning. Every
time they put on a program that is County wide, Ulysses can take credit for it because the
Town appropriates funds for these organizations.
This coming year (MS4 year starts June 1st), Stormwater Group would like to better
coordinate the best management practices efforts and coordinate or facilitate the
formation of local municipal laws . One reason we did not meet several of the intended
goals for last year was we just formed the stormwater group and we are trying to structure
the requirements so that we can work on them as a group to share resources . If an outside
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Stormwater Public Informational Meeting
05/27/2004
consultant is needed for some reason the cost is shared. The state has just notified the
group that our funding has been approved so we can finally start some of projects such as
out flow mapping in the county. In the report of the last year you will frequently see the
reason for not meeting a requirement as "no funding" which we were directed to put in by
the DEC . On May 18th notice was received that the Stormwater Project was awarded
100% of the requested funds which is $ 173 ,000 — which is divided up with all the
municipalities with MS4 — most of the funding is for public outreach. The one big
project that will be funded is having the County do the inflow/outflow mapping of the
streams and culverts. The municipalities are expected to have matching funds, which can
be in time and material . The Town of Ulysses has signed up to do septic testing along the
lakefront in the MS4 district. Mr. Coogan is investigating the use of a thermal imaging
flyover, which he explained at the last Town Board meeting. Because the flyover will be
over several municipalities, the lead agency for this effort will be the IO (Intermunicipal
Organization) with support from TC Planning and the Town of UlyssesThe IO works
with Seneca and Cayuga County and what we are trying to do is capture the entire
Cayuga Lake Watershed and that is one of the big reasons of using the IO because it is
also a more mutual funding source and they can also tap into other State funds that we
would have a more difficult time doing.
The inflow/outflow mapping is a State mandate minimum requirement. One major effort
for the coming year will be to have municipalities pass local laws for stormwater
management. The Genesee/Finger Lakes Regional Planning Council is heading that
work effort and will be sending their representative to the next Town Board meeting to
speak with the Board. They will draft a local law . They expect six sessions at two hours
each. The Town Board can decide who will be part of that.
One of the efforts that the Town of Ulysses agreed to do as part of the NOI was to start a
stormwater library, the Town is coordinating that effort with Tompkins County Planning.
One of the things the Stormwater Group decided that would make more sense than each
municipality buying a whole lot of text that may or may not be good, they are
recommending to us which books we should have in the Town Hall for anyone coming in
to review .
The Local Law was due in year one — no one has completed this so the municipalities
will all work on this together, somewhat like the personal watercraft so we are all passing
the same law . The County receives bonus points when the municipalities work together
instead or independently.
Ms . Marino asked what points are? Mr. Coogan stated that they are for applying for
grants .
What is scheduled for year two is create inspection programs for new developments. The
first training was held on April 15th, 2004 and it is still on going. There is differing
opinions as to as to what constitutes a one-acre disturbance regarding single-family
homes. The different representatives at the Stormwater Group look at it differently.
Municipalities tend to think a single family home as not disturbing more than an acre, the
environmental agencies feel that single family residences do disturb more than one acre
and the not for profits fall in-between.
Mr. Austic stated that at the meeting of April 15th the DEC stated the single-family home
is basically exempt. The question is do we want to do something more than the MS4 at
this point or live with their rule. If it is part of a development or a subdivision than an
MS4 — NOII would have to be done, that is if a new road was put in.
Ms. Marino; stated that the municipalities could pass a Local Law strengthening the
regulations.
The Genesee Regional Planning Council will provide samples of Local Laws and there is
also a sample on the State ' s web page.
Mr. Coogan stated that other training sections are being scheduled for code enforcement
officers and highway departments, included in that erosion control for highway
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05/27/2004
departments and prevention and good house keeping practices where salt, fuel oil, etc . is
being stored. They are also looking at spill response measure training, what happens
when a spill happens .
Mr. Coogan stated that in the report lists many types of events for out reach programs,
everything from Lake Feast, well tests, Ronnie Rain Drop, floating classrooms, stream
measurement groups and all that counts toward public outreach programs .
Mr. Austic stated that overall the Town of Ulysses accomplished more than the some of
the municipalities . The Town does have materials for their library and are on top of
everything. Mr. Coogan stated that Tompkins County Planning would create two full
libraries ; one will be at TC Planning and the other at TC Library.
Mr. Coogan reviewed the thermal imaging that will be scheduled for next spring when
there would be a distinct difference between ground temperature and effluent. The cost is
$700 a mile and what they are looking at is late April or early May of 2005 . They will
use either infrared thermal imaging or use color infrared or both. A test flight is being
scheduled this week, to verify the technology with the topography. Tompkins County
Planning is giving LandCare Aviation the coordinates for the test. TC Planning will be
the repositiory of the data and the agencies for procuring additional analysis . The Town
of Lansing is interested in doing their lakeshore, as is the Town of Ulysses, the other
municipalities have smaller areas and are not as interested. The County would like to see
it all done so that the entire area of the lake in the Tompkins County will be included but
the analysis may not be done for municipalities not participating (this is the high cost part
of the project) . A grant for this project is being submitted and must be finished by the
end of June. It is a matching grant, matching funds are being sought from the County,
Soil and Water, and other agencies in the form of time, materials, and analysis . The
thermal imaging data has many other potential uses that could be used in the future
besides the detection of faulty septic systems . Contamination from septic systems is
expected to be a major issue in 2005 with more State requirements coming our way.
Mr. Austic stated that he talked with John Andersson and the Tompkins County Health
Department would be willing to do some of the stream checks .
No public comments were heard.
The Town Board thanked Mr. Coogan for his report.
The meeting was adjourned at 8 PM .
Respectfully submitted,
Marsha L. Georgia
Ulysses Town Clerk
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