HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003-12-02 - PH TOWN OF ULYSSES
JOINT PUBLIC HEARING TOWN OF ULYSSES / VILLAGE OF TRUMANSBURG
DECEMBER 2 , 2003
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* * * NOTE : THE FOLLOWING IS THE LEGAL TRANSCRIPTION OF THE PUBLIC HEARING .
1 STATE OF NEW YORK
2 •
3 COUNTY OF TOMPKINS
4
5 JOINT PUBLIC HEARING OF
THE TOWN OF ULYSSES TOWN BOARD
6 AND THE VILLAGE OF TRUMANSBURG COUNCIL
FOR ANNEXATION APPLICATION
7
8
PUBLIC HEARING held in the above - entitled matter on
9 the 2nd day of December , at The Trumansburg High school
Auditorium , Trumansburg , New York , commencing at 7 : 00 p . m .
10
APPEARANCES :
11
For the Town Board : DOUGLAS AUSTIC , Town Supervisor
12 CAROLYN DUDDLESTON
ROBERT WEATHERBY
13 SUE A . POELVOORDE
LEE SCOTT
14 MARSHA L . GEORGIA , Town Clerk
15 For the Village Council : ROD FERRENTINO , Mayor
JOHN LEVINE
16 MARK RICH
( RICK WILLERS
17 CARL POTTER
CAROLYN BENNETT , Clerk Treasurer
18 DAVID TYLER , Town Attorney
19
20
21
22 REPORTED BY : Gabrielle Paige Hackett
Registered Professional Reporter
23 Certified Shorthand Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
24
25
2
1 I N D E X
2 Witnesses :
Page
3 Guy Krogh 5
4 Rodney Porter
14
5 Richard Burlew
15
6 Don Ellis
19
7 Dolores Higareda
22
8 Roger Rector
26
9 Rodney Porter
27
10 Don Ellis 29
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
3
1 MR . AUSTIC : Okay , I guess we ' ll start
2 the meeting we have to do before the public
3 hearing . We scheduled the public hearing for
4 seven o ' clock , but it doesn ' t look like there ' s
5 anybody prepared to start , so we won ' t at this
6 point .
7 First of all , we have to call a joint
8 meeting to order and choose a presiding officer
9 from one of the village or town boards .
10 So I ' ll call this meeting to order ,
11 and do I hear any nominations for a presiding
12 officer over the hearing ?
13 MR . FERRENTINO : I nominate Doug .
14 MR . AUSTIC : Can I hear a second ?
15 MR . RICH : Second .
16 MR . AUSTIC : Any other nominations ?
17 Okay , proceed to vote . All in favor ?
18 ( Whereupon the motion passed
19 unanimously . )
20 MR . AUSTIC : I guess I ' m the presiding
21 officer . Okay , with us tonight we have the
22 village board and the town council . On this
23 side Carl Potter , Rick Willers , Mark Rich , John
24 Levine and Mayor Ferrentino .
25 From the Town Board , I guess I ' m not
4
1 there . There ' s Marsha Georgia , Town Clerk ;
2 Carolyn Duddleston , councilwoman ; Sue
3 Poelvoorde , Councilwoman , and Lee Scott .
4 First of all , just to prove we did
5 advertise this , the advertisement appeared in
6 the Ithaca Journal on 11 / 1 / 03 and the copy ' s
7 available or has been available at the Town Hall
8 or Village Hall , if anyone wanted to read it .
9 It was also published in the Free Press on
10 11 / 5 / 03 and copies are available from that . In
11 addition , a copy of the notice was sent to
12 ninety registered voters on 11 / 10 / 03 . The list
13 is available if you desire .
14 Is there anything anybody else wants
15 to add before we open the public hearing from
16 any of the boards ? Okay , then I suggest that we
17 open the public hearing to receive evidence and
18 information on the proposed annexation of
19 Mr . Auble ' s property into the Village of
20 Trumansburg from the Town of Ulysses .
21 As you came in , there was a map that
22 indicated the parcel that is going to be
23 proposed to be annexed . So we ' re here to take
24 information concerning the petition ; whether the
25 right person signing the petition is qualified
5
1 to sign , whether the person signing the petition
2 represents owners of majority in assessed real
3 property valuation within the territory ; whether
4 or not the petition complies with the General
5 Municipal Law ; and whether or not it is in the
6 overall public interest of the town , village and
7 the territory being annexed .
8 Before I get into the public hearing
9 and we start taking public comment , Mr . Auble ' s
10 attorney , Mr . Guy Krogh is here . Do you want to
11 make a statement as to the petition ?
12 MR . KROGH : Certainly . I don ' t know to
13 what level you ' d like me to address the
14 petition , but as a point of interest in the
15 first matter , if the combined boards
16 individually decide that they would like to
17 proceed , I would submit an amended description
18 of the property . I inadvertently carried one of
19 the lines too far north and part of the property
20 description is actually in Seneca County , which
21 you cannot annex . So I would correct that
22 error .
23 And Doug , would you like me to speak
24 to the petition itself and be the first speaker ?
25 MR . AUSTIC : If you wish . Is there
6
1 anybody in a real hurry to make public comment ?
2 At least we ' ll have more information about what
3 the actual petition is if you want to make a few
4 comments for a minute or two .
5 MR . KROGH : I ' ve been asked a number of
6 times about what Mr . Auble ' s plans might be for
7 this property and they are precisely none . He
8 is hoping that it would come into the village
9 and remain commercially zoned so that it would
10 be , so that he would be able to sell it in
11 whatever size parcels are appropriate for that
12 zone .
13 His vision is basically very low
14 impact commercial development , mixed use type
15 things , not just strip malls or anything like
16 that , doctor ' s office , whatever would be
17 appropriate based on what the land use ordinance
18 would describe is appropriate for that parcel .
19 At one time many years ago , some of
20 you were on the boards the last time annexation
21 was sought , and there were some detailed plans
22 of what the architecture would look like ,
23 et cetera . That was at a time when Mr . Auble
24 was basically working with construction.
25 companies . At this point he ' s largely retired
7
1 and he would simply be looking to sell the land
2 to interested parties who wanted to place
3 businesses there that would be permitted .
4 So to that extent , he doesn ' t have
5 any specific plans for the property except to
6 parcel it off as permitted and sell it . He
7 believes that commercial development in the
8 downtown area would reinvigorate the commerce of
9 the village and that would have a cumulative
10 impact that would help not only the existing
11 downtown , but will have several benefits .
12 One of the principal aspects he
13 envisions is dedicating a portion of land to the
14 village that would be used for a water tower to
15 increase water pressure . That would be
16 beneficial to the village , the entire water
17 district as a whole not only by increasing water
18 pressure to bring it up to Bolton Point
19 standards , but also from an engineering
20 perspective , the higher water pressure is better
21 for fighting fires . It ' s better for home use
22 because it prevents all harmful infiltrates from
23
being within water systems . The higher pressure
24 prevents build - up on pipes .
25 The reason that the property is
8
1 sought to go into the village is that you. simply
2 can ' t do anything with any of the property
3 unless it has access to water , municipal water
4 specifically .
5 The alternative for developing
6 without it being in the village would be to have
7 septic and / or sand trap systems , and because of
8 the topography of the land , the lateral lines
9 and different types of dispersal trenches would
10 end up running downhill towards the village .
11 Mr . Auble doesn ' t believe that that ' s a
12 preferred method of commercial development .
13 The county board and the DEC are
14 discouraging SPDES permits for commercial uses ,
15 although they still do grant them . And a SPDES
16 permit is just , it ' s a point source discharge
17 permit for septic systems . Most homes , without
18 the homeowners actually knowing it , when they
19 put in a septic system , they actually end up
20 with a DEC permit for that septic system . You
21 never see it but it exists . Same thing happens
22 with commercial businesses as well .
23 So while it ' s permitted , it ' s
24 certainly not preferred , and again , the
25 topography of the land would have everything
9
1 flowing downhill towards the village . There are
2 residences there . There is going to be a large
3 residential community there . He doesn ' t think
4 that ' s a good way to go and certainly the State
5 of New York is encouraging that point of view .
6 As far as other benefits to the
7 village , some people can debate these points
8 until there is no end to time , but the issues
9 that we would briefly raise for consideration by
10 the board is not only the dedication of space
11 for a water tower , but by placing this
12 relatively large tract within the village , that
13 clearly has commercial potential , it would allow
14 better coordination of joint comprehensive
15 planning .
16 This is particularly important , we
17 believe , given current zoning and the proximity
18 of the parcel to the existing downtown business
19 district . We also believe it would be
20 beneficial ' cause it would provide for a
21 mandatory manufactured housing zone . As most
22 board members here are certainly aware and some
23 members of the public may be aware , you cannot
24 use zoning as an exclusionary tact . You. can ' t
25 use zoning to keep out certain types of people
10
1 or people of certain ethnicity . Municipalities
2 are required to have different types of parcels
3 so anyone can choose where they want to go in a
4 community . They can ' t say no , we don ' t allow
5 mobile homes or no , we don ' t allow modified
6 homes or manufactured homes , everything has to
7 be stick builds .
8 The legislature and the courts don ' t
9 allow that type of zoning and we believe the
10 creation of a manufactured home park would be
11 beneficial in that regard because it would ease
12 compliance with law .
13 We believe that it would also be
14 beneficial because if ever developed in the
15 future , it would allow for the creation of jobs
16 that would add to the local economy as well as
17 provide people that don ' t have the mobility to
18 go to and from Geneva or Ithaca with an
19 opportunity to work locally as well as it would
20 provide some needed goods and services .
21 We also believe from an urban planning
22 standpoint , not that Trumansburg is an urban
23 center , but certainly it is a center of commerce
24 for the area , we believe that keeping the
25 development concentrated in the downtown area
11
1 will prevent , you know , problems with view sheds
2 and what ' s called sprawl down along the 96
3 corridor .
4 If you ' ve watched the few things that have
5 been developed over the past ten , fifteen years ,
6 you can see everything ' s being developed down
7 the 96 corridor ; and you can go a half a mile
8 and run into a business , and then go a quarter
9 mile and run into a business . And if you ' ve
10 ever been to Northern Ohio or some areas where
11 there are urban sprawl problems , you ' ll probably
12 understand what I mean .
13 And again , the last point that I would
14 raise is , is that by placing this piece of land
15 that ' s very much adjacent to the downtown
16 business district within the zoning power of the
17 village , the village would have significant
18 control over the types of business and what
19 types of low impact benefits can be associated
20 with that , whether it ' s the planting of
21 screenings , the control of noise , utilization of
22 specific travel corridors to alleviate any kind
23 of problems along 96 or County Line Road ,
24 et cetera .
25 Those , we believe , are the essential
12
1 benefits and , you know , on behalf of Mr . Auble ,
2 I ' d like to thank you all for your time . If you
3 have any questions , I ' ll certainly answer them
4 to the extent I ' m capable .
5 MR . AUSTIC : Does anyone have any
6 questions for Mr . Krogh ?
7 MR . KROGH : Thank you .
8 MR . AUSTIC : Okay , do I hear a motion
9 from one member of the joint boards here to
10 accept the petition as Mr . Krogh has suggested
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11 modified taking out the mistake he made putting
12 part of Seneca County in the petitions ?
13 MR . LEVINE : This would be accepting
14 the petition as corrected ?
15 MR . AUSTIC : Right , as corrected .
16 MR . LEVINE : Yeah , I ' ll move to do
17 that .
18 MS . POELVOORDE : I ' ll second .
19 MR . AUSTIC : Sue seconds , is there any
20 discussion on that motion ?
21 MR . FERRENTINO : So that ' s based on
22 making the change to the right dimensions ?
23 MR . AUSTIC : The metes and bounds were
24 incorrect , and it showed the parcel extending
25 into Seneca County . So with the correction that
13
1 Mr . Krogh suggested , we put it back into
2 Tompkins County and the Town of Ulysses at that
3 point . So are there any further discussion ?
4 All in favor ?
5 ( Whereupon the motion passed
6 unanimously . )
7 MR . AUSTIC : I guess we will continue
8 with the public hearing then . Where ' s my list ?
9 I have everybody signed up here on the way in .
10 I will ask if anybody wants to make a comment
11 even though they had no on here just so maybe we
12 can get some more comments . Dave Boyd ?
13 MR . BOYD : I just have one question for
14 you . You said they ' re going to make the
15 property available for the water tower . Would
16 this be , we would have to purchase that , the
17 village have to purchase that or would that be
18 made gratis ?
19 MR . KROGH : It would be dedicated free
20 of charge .
21 MR . BOYD : Thank you .
22 MR . AUSTIC : Lynne Potter or Porter ?
23 MS . PORTER : No .
24 MR . AUSTIC : Does not wish to make a
25 comment . Rodney Porter , it says here
14
1 " possibly " , what does that mean ?
2 MR . PORTER : Yeah , I have a few
3 questions .
4 MR . AUSTIC : Questions or comments ?
5 Would you go to the microphone ?
6 MR . PORTER : Can I use that one ?
7 MR . AUSTIC : You can use whichever .
8 MR . PORTER : I own property adjacent to
9 this parcel , and so I had a couple questions .
10 You mentioned Mr . Auble ' s ability to parcel
11 parts of the land off and commercial
12 development , but you don ' t mention any other
13 type of development or uses . Does he have any
14 other plans , residential or other ?
15 MR . KROGH : He envisioned that the
16 residential uses would be the mobile home park
17 and that there would be , as is normal under site
18 plan review , buffers for any residential
19 districts nearby . I don ' t think he had planned
20 any residential uses other than the mobile home
21 park , but certainly that ' s , to a certain extent ,
22 in the village ' s hands . When it comes in , it
23 has to be zoned .
24 MR . PORTER : Okay , and that would be
25 another question I would have to the village
15
1 board if they were to annex this , how would this
2 parcel or different parts of this parcel be
3 zoned ?
4 MR . AUSTIC : Are you expecting an
5 answer ?
6 MR . PORTER : No , no . Well , it would be
7 nice , but . . .
8 MR . AUSTIC : Well , we ' re not going to
9 answer you tonight .
10 MR . PORTER : I may have other
11 questions , but that ' s all right .
12 MR . AUSTIC : I don ' t think they really
13 know at this point . Lisa Chase ?
14 MS . CHASE : No .
15 MR . AUSTIC : Louise Parke - Dabes ?
16 MS . PARKE - DABES : No .
17 MR . AUSTIC : Is that proper
18 pronunciation ?
19 MS . PARKE - DARES : Close enough , it ' s
20 close enough .
21 MR . AUSTIC : Bob Lodinsky ?
22 MR . LODINSKY : No .
23 MR . AUSTIC : Richard Burlew maybe ?
24 MR . BURLEW : Yeah , I have a couple
25 questions .
16
1 MR . AUSTIC : All right .
2 MR . BURLEW : Probably rather
3 elementary . I have to make an assumption , I
4 guess , if a new or expanded manufactured home
5 park goes in there , that it would fall under the
6 new zoning requirements ? Is that a yes ?
7 MR . FERRENTINO : Yes .
8 MR . BURLEW : So it couldn ' t just be
9 added on the way the mobile home park is there
10 now ?
11 MR . FERRENTINO : No .
12 MR . BURLEW : And also does anyone have
13 any idea what it would cost for the
14 infrastructure , for the water basically ?
15 MR . FERRENTINO : I can address that
16 roughly . We have some engineering costs for the
17 potential of siting a tank as part of the land ,
18 but there is a difference in the style and size
19 of the tank , and height of the tank . So the
20 figures that we have are all based on one type
21 of tank . And without looking into different
22 tanks and options , we can ' t say that figure at
23 this time of roughly what that cost would be and
24 we are looking at other sites . We have relative
25 cause to do it .
17
1 MR . POTTER : We have about six sites .
2 MR . BURLEW : That are possibles ?
3 MR . POTTER : That we ' re looking at .
4 MR . LEVINE : In the ballpark , it would
5 cost more than half a million and less than a
6 million dollars , but the ballpark .
7 MR . BURLEW : I guess I ' m not asking the
8 right question . That ' s an expense we ' re going
9 to deal with whether we annex , we ' re going to
10 have to do something with a water tower ?
11 MR . LEVINE : Right .
12 MR . BURLEW : I guess what I ' m asking is
13 what is it going to cost us for the mobile homes
14 or do they have it already ?
15 MR . POTTER : They already have water .
16 MR . BURLEW : They have their own sewer
17 system ?
18 MR . AUSTIC : No , it ' s our system .
19 MR . BURLEW : And I have the same
20 question that the last , about the zoning , I
21 think that ' s going to be very important and how
22 will that , I suppose that would be subject of
23 another public hearing ?
24 MR . FERRENTINO : Yeah , I ' ll just make a
25 general statement about that . Right now it ' s
18
1 zoned a particular way in the town .
2 MR . BURLEW : Right .
3 MR . FERRENTINO : And it ' s commercial in
4 nature .
5 MR . BURLEW : Right .
6 MR . FERRENTINO : One of the things that
7 we would do at the same time that this comes
8 together , if it comes together , is that we would
9 rezone it to match what we would like in the
10 village so that it ' s all done at one time ,
11 keeping in line with the theme of what the town
12 did is what we would choose to do was in the
13 bigger master plan of the bigger picture of the
14 area . The town has designated that as a
15 commercial area , so we would work with the town
16 when we put that together .
17 MR . BURLEW : Whatever you put together
18 would be the subject of another public hearing ,
19 I would imagine .
20 MR . FERRENTINO : Yeah .
21 MR . LEVINE : It would be before the
22 planning board .
23 MR . FERRENTINO : Definitely .
24 MR . AUSTIC : Margaret Burlew ?
25 MS . BURLEW : No .
19
1 MR . AUSTIC : Don Ellis ?
2 MR . ELLIS : I never said no , so . . .
3 Well , I had a fairly long worked out thing to
4 basically read , but given that it ' s mostly just
5 us chickens , gotta scratch a little closer .
6 And also the business that this
7 parcel is drawn incorrectly in the petition
8 makes me think of another meeting we had back in
9 the spring when the housing project adjacent to
10 this Auble land was up for review . And it
11 really goes to the point that is the main point
12 I wanted to make in any case this evening .
13 And that is that the land needs to be
14 brought in zoned residential , because that
15 provides the highest level of opportunity for
16 the village to deal with it in a careful way .
17 And going back to the meeting in what must have
18 been April , could have been March , that
19 developer came before the village Planning
20 Board , and began apologizing almost immediately
21 for not being sure if the proposed parcel was
22 actually in the village as drawn or in the town .
23 Now , that ' s about as ridiculous as
24 you can get in terms of incompetence in
25 presenting a proposal . Literally said we don ' t
20
1 know if it ' s in the village , but here we are in
2 front of the village planning board . What would
3 you expect the outcome of that planning
4 procedure to be ? They gave him preliminary
5 approval .
6 This planning board is unprepared to
7 deal with the complexities that come with the
8 annexation . We need time for the planning board
9 to get better organized , trained for the village
10 to reconsider whether or not it wants a
11 comprehensive plan adopted or not . Without a
12 comprehensive plan , the planning board simply
13 becomes a group of people that rule upon whether
14 or not a procedure is correct .
15 I don ' t think that ' s what people in
16 the village want the planning board to do . They
17 want the planning board to do that for sure and
18 we know that they ' re not qualified . They ' ve
19 demonstrated it at least twice this year . So
20 they need to be better qualified to do that
21 fundamental thing to review a proposal properly .
22 But beyond that , I think what we
23 really want of the planning board is that they
24 speak on behalf of the village as to whether or
25 not proposals are appropriate , whether they ,
21
1 whether they are what the community wants or
2 not . Without a comprehensive plan , their hands
3 are tied . They have no place to stand and say
4 yes , this does represent what the village has
5 said it is interested in or no , it does not .
6 In 1992 and 1993 , the village looked
7 at the comprehensive plan which contained years
8 of work and decided not to adopt it . I think it
9 should be revisited . Without a plan you are
10 subject to all kinds of legal problems ,
11 decisions can look very arbitrary , and in fact ,
12 the comprehensive plan didn ' t look very
13 different from what this annexation may be
14 headed toward , but it was not adopted . That
15 needs to be corrected .
16 The planning board will have a lot of
17 very difficult and challenging work to do if the
18 annexation goes through and we need to give , we
19 need to start from the right place , bring it in
20 as residential . We can always go back and
21 rezone it when it ' s appropriate and so forth .
22 In the village , little things count a
23 lot . Mr . Auble ' s attorney thinks of this
24 annexation as being a piece of land that is
25 downtown . Those of you who have worked in
22
1 village planning here in the village , which many
2 of us have for years , know that we don ' t think
3 of this as downtown at all . As a matter of
4 fact , downtown comes in two pieces , there ' s
5 upper village and the lower village . How ' s that
6 for Fine Grain ? Fine Grain is very important
7 because the Town of Ulysses is a very tiny
8 little place and the Village of Trumansburg is
9 even a tinier place within this . All of these
10 things need to be made on a very fine and
11 careful level .
A
12 I think we need commercial
13 development . Every time I speak in the public
14 I ' ve said that . But we need it done right . I
15 don ' t think we have the instrument in place to
16 do it right , and therefore , I think we should
17 proceed in the very most conservative way .
18 MR . AUSTIC : Dolores , do you want to
19 speak ? Dolores Higareda .
20 MS . HIGAREDA : Okay , I have a couple of
21 different things that I ' m concerned about , and
22 it may take me a couple different ways to try to
23 get it out so I understand it as well .
24 I ' m a little concerned about the
25 annexation that is right next to a piece of
23
1 property that ' s not going to be having low
2 income housing , and when that was brought up ,
3 there were certainly lots of questions and
4 concerns about the placement of the apartments
5 and the roading and being too close to the
6 Seneca - - I mean , the town line versus the
7 village line and so , and now we ' re talking about
8 annexing this piece of land into the village .
9 There could potentially may be some problems
10 there .
11 You folks are supposed to be the
12 experts and know how this all comes together and
13 works , so that ' s something that I think you need
14 to address and think about .
15 I think the annexation is not good at
16 this point since the village , from my
17 understanding , still yet we really don ' t have a
18 village comprehensive plan that ' s passed , and
19 this is the law and all of that , and we ' re
20 talking about this large parcel of land that has
21 lots of different kinds of things on it , or
22 could have lots of different things on it . And
23 I think that that needs to be known at this
24 point and even if you think about a yes , I think
25 it should just be as residential property
24
1 because from residential , you can , you can down
2 the line change that to , you know , low
3 commercial and whatever else the different , you
4 know , the zoning codes are .
5 As far as , you know , what is that
6 going to do to the village ? I ' m very concerned
7 about annexing something that is commercial of
8 any type . Um , there are lots , I mean , there is ,
9 there are a group of people living there , that ' s
10 their homes . The trailer park is not huge , and
11 it ' s not tiny , but it ' s a community . And
12 anything we do next to it , around it that is
13 considered some sort of light commercial , what
14 does that mean ? Does that mean that somebody
15 can buy that and put up a small factory of some
16 type that could have lots of traffic on that
17 road ?
18 That road is not made for lots of
19 traffic . It is not made for heavy equipment .
20 You know , big four ton trucks or whatever it is
21 that they use these days to haul stuff . I think
22 that ' s a real concern .
23 It ' s also a real concern for that
24 intersection of 96 and Seneca Road . There is
25 certainly a lot of local traffic at that corner
25
1 for the village traffic , that as well as town
2 traffic . So that ' s a very big concern for me
3 too also is traffic , and I think when we ' re
4 talking commercial , I think that could cause
5 some real , some real problems with that
6 intersection .
7 Sometimes it ' s difficult getting in
8 and out of that intersection onto 96 in either
9 direction . So commercial is just , I don ' t think
10 at this time should even be thought about .
11 And there are - - something else , um .
12 Oh , the water tower issue , um , I heard say among
13 all of you that there is like , you know , a half
14 dozen sites in which you ' re thinking of for the
15 new water tower . And that ' s , that ' s really nice
16 to know that you ' ve got some options there . But
17 I also should think that because something is
18 free doesn ' t mean that that ' s good . And so I
19 can see where it can be tempting to annex a
20 piece of property because then the village has
21 this free spot , but that doesn ' t always make it
22 good .
23 Let ' s see , I think that was it .
24 Thank you .
25 MR . RUSTIC : Okay , that ' s all of the
26
1 list I have of people who signed in .
2 Mr . Rector , do you want to make a statement ?
3 You don ' t have to , just I ' m asking .
4 MR . RECTOR : Thanks . I guess my
5 question would be if the village would annex the
6 property which included a mobile home park ,
7 would you be grandfathering in the mobile home
8 park in its existing condition or could you put
9 some kind of restrictions on it that it had to
10 be brought up to current code in order for it to
11 come in the village ? I don ' t think it was ever
12 completed when it was built in the town in the
13 manner that it was presented . That would be my
14 concern or my question .
15 MR . FERRENTINO : Is there a list
16 available of what the conditions are that
17 haven ' t been met of the trailer park ?
18 MR . RECTOR : I think if ou
y go back to
19 the original proposal that all were presented at
20 the time he built the park , there was quite
21 elaborate plans as to how it was going to be
22 finished when it was completed . It ' s never met
23 those conditions and I was just concerned as to
24 whether the village had any power , if they were
25 to annex , to enforce those provisions or
27
1 whatever the village ' s standing would be as far
2 as what you would require if somebody would
3 build a mobile home park or a manufactured home
4 park in the village under existing rules and
5 regulations .
6 MR . AUSTIC : Does anybody else want to
7 make a statement or several second statements ?
8 Anybody want to make a second statement ?
9 MR . PORTER : Rodney Porter . One
10 comment and potential correction , Mr . Ferrentino
11 mentioned that in the town , this parcel was
12 currently zoned as commercial zone . I don ' t
13 believe that that ' s true of both of the parcels .
14 To my knowledge , the parcel that has
15 access on Route 96 is , is zoned as commercial
16 and planned to remain commercial in the town ,
17 potential new town ordinance . But the parcel
18 that includes the trailer park is , is zoned as a
19 residential zone . And I think it would be very
20 inappropriate for any sort of substantial
21 commercial development in the remaining parcel
22 that includes the trailer park , mainly because
23 of the amount , the level of residential use of
24 that parcel and adjacent parcels both within
25 Tompkins County and in Seneca County .
28
1 And while the road construction is
2 probably appropriate to handle weight , the width
3 could probably be an issue for traffic of
4 commercial type vehicles on any kind of a large
5 scale basis . So I think commercial zoning of
6 the trailer park parcel would be very
7 inappropriate , and I would be opposed to that .
8 And my other question is on the
9 notification , what are the requirements for
10 who ' s to be notified by mail and who are these
11 ninety people that were - -
12 MR . AUSTIC : Residents in the
13 territory .
14 MR . RECTOR : Of the actual - -
15 MR . AUSTIC : Right .
16 MR . RECTOR : All right .
17 MS . HIGAREDA : Could you say that
18 again ?
19 MR . AUSTIC : Registered voters in the
20 territory , which would essentially mean people
21 in the trailer park .
22 MR . RECTOR : And there ' s no requirement
23 for notification of adjacent homeowners ?
24 MR . AUSTIC : No , that ' s the requirement
25 under General Municipal Law . Don ?
29
1 MR . ELLIS : Dolores talked longer than
2 I did , so I have to catch up .
3 There ' s one other thing I ' d like to
4 say kind of on the very same point , the point of
5 the fineness of the thing . I think this is
6 really critical that we , that we , if it ' s
7 annexed , that it be brought in as residential .
8 And as a matter of fact , personally I ' d be very
9 much in favor of that . That would be my
10 preference . I think that ' s good planning and I
11 think it ' s a good thing for the village , but
12 having done it , you know , we can ' t just be
13 breaking this dam and being flooded by the
14 consequence . I think we have to proceed very
15 carefully .
16 And one of the things that I: would
17 like to just share with you is an experience
18 that I ' ve had and I think it really goes to the
19 point here and that is in the mid - 60 ' s - -
20 MR . AUSTIC : Are these comments on
21 this ?
22 MR . RECTOR : This is .
23 MR . AUSTIC : On the annexation ?
24 MR . RECTOR : It ' s on the annexation and
25 what the annexation brings .
30
1 MR . AUSTIC : All right .
2 MR . RECTOR : In the mid - 60 ' s I lived in
3 Saranac Lake for about two years . In Saranac
4 Lake there was a restaurant and a hotel and
5 there were four or five little diners , breakfast
6 diners that everybody used . Just like in
7 Trumansburg we have three now , there ' s a whole
8 group of people that show up in these places ,
9 they ' re the working people , the retired people .
10 It ' s a very important kind of thread in the
11 village , very important kind of network and
12 community . In little communities , little things
13 count a lot .
14 I went back in Saranac Lake in the
15 mid - 70 ' s . I had a choice , I could have
16 breakfast at the hotel or breakfast at Burger
17 King . I didn ' t have breakfast at Burger King ,
18 but I went there to look , those people weren ' t
19 there . They lost that network and that
20 community opportunity .
21 Of all the parcels in this village
22 where those kinds of things should be considered
23 carefully , this is one . If this is brought in
24 commercial or becomes commercial , it ' s going to
25 have a lot of impact on what ' s here already .
31
1 It ' s a very tiny , very fragile place . I think
2 we have to proceed very carefully .
3 MR . AUSTIC : Anyone else wish to make a
4 comment ? Bruce ?
5 CITIZEN : No .
6 MR . AUSTIC : Just want to sit there ,
7 keep warm , all right .
8 Okay , if there are no other comments ,
9 do I hear a motion that we adjourn the public
10 hearing ?
11 MR . TYLER : Adjourn or close ?
12 MR . AUSTIC : Close , adjourn .
13 MR . FERRENTINO : I move that .
14 MR . AUSTIC : Motion ' s been made , do I
15 hear a second ?
16 MR . SCOTT : Second .
17 MR . WEATHERBY : Second .
18 MR . AUSTIC : Are there any discussion
19 on closing the public hearing ? All in favor ?
20 ( Whereupon the motion passed
21 unanimously . )
22 MR . AUSTIC : Okay , we still have a
23 joint meeting open , and what we need to do now
24 is we ' ve got to do SEQR on this annexation . So
25 we need to discuss establishing a lead agency
32
1 for this . In my opinion it would behoove the
2 village to be lead agency on SEQR because the
3 effect on the town may not be deterious
4 ( phonetic ) to the town .
5 MS . HIGAREDA : Can you use the
6 microphone ? We really can ' t hear you out here .
7 MR . AUSTIC : All right . I say we have
8 to determine lead agency for the SEQR of this
9 annexation . And in my opinion it would be more ,
10 more , there would be more affect on the village
11 than it would be on the town related to SEQR
12 events , so I would suggest that the village
13 establish themselves as lead agency of the SEQR
14 review . Do I hear any discussion on that ?
15 MR . FERRENTINO : I think it ' s the right
16 way to go , Doug .
17 MR . AUSTIC : I mean , we ' ll probably
18 want a joint review , but I would say the village
19 should be lead agency .
20 MR . WILLERS : Is that motion , is that a
21 motion , Rod ?
22 MR . FERRENTINO : I would like to - -
23 MR . WILLERS : I would move the village
24 be the lead agency for SEQR on the annexation
25 for the property in the Village of Trumansburg .
33
1 MR . POTTER : I second .
2 MR . RUSTIC : Motion has been made and
3 seconded that the village establish itself as
4 lead agency and all of the requirements of
5 notifying other potential lead agencies as to
6 their intent be carried forth .
7 MR . TYLER : Let ' s see if there ' s any
8 comment on the town board in their perspective ?
9 MR . AUSTIC : Anybody want to comment ?
10 MS . POELVOORDE : We ' ll be involved .
11 MR . TYLER : Anybody here on the town
12 board have any objection to that ?
13 MS . POELVOORDE : No , it would be
14 greater impact on the village .
15 MR . SCOTT : No problem .
16 MR . FERRENTINO : We have both the BEQR
17 ( phonetic ) and the SEQR , we have to do both of
18 those , so it would be a dual .
I
19 MR . AUSTIC : You can ' t do a BEQR unless
20 it ' s in the village , unless it ' s already in the
21 village .
22 MR . FERRENTINO : That ' s true , strike
23 that from the record . It ' ll be SEQR .
24 MR . AUSTIC : Motion is made and
25 seconded for the village to establish itself as
34
1 the lead agency for the SEQR review . All in
2 favor ?
3 ( Whereupon the motion passed
4 unanimously . )
5 MR . AUSTIC : Opposed ?
6 The village will establish itself as
7 lead agency through the normal process of SEQR
8 requirements under the law . We also need to
9 send this to Tompkins County ' s Planning and
10 Development , and who would like to do that ? The
11 town could do that or the village . It makes no
12 difference , just somebody has to submit it .
13 MR . TYLER : Why doesn ' t the town do
14 that because they ' re not doing the SEQR .
15 MR . AUSTIC : The town will do that
16 because we ' re not doing the review , we ' ll do the
17 Tompkins County planning .
18 MR . FERRENTINO : Anything you need from
19 us , Marsha , we ' ll put it together .
20 MR . AUSTIC : Okay , at this point I
21 think we ' re just about done with the joint
22 meeting , except that after this meeting , we will
23 go back to our own boards , village and town
24 boards , and make a decision as to the merits of
25 whether it ' s in the public interest to annex the
35
1 territory into the village or the town , on the
2 other hand , letting it go to the village , and
3 also whether it ' s a benefit to the residents of
4 the territory being annexed , meaning basically
5 the mobile home park residents .
6 So that decision has to be made
7 within ninety days of the public hearing or this
8 public hearing . So we need to keep going on
9 this . And there is very specific decisions and
10 facts that need to be presented when the
11 decisions are made . So with that , I ' m sure
12 Mr . Tyler knows what ' s happening as far as - -
13 MR . TYLER : Can I make the suggestion ,
14 since this is kind of separate which means they
15 will be meeting separately until they come to a
16 decision , would it be appropriate to have some
17 dialog with the public interest issues and so
18 forth so they at least , they ' re not decided here
19 today , but they can discuss it here as they ' re
20 here on this panel ?
21 MR . AUSTIC : Makes sense . Does anybody
22 want to make comments ?
23 MR . FERRENTINO : The first comment I
24 want to make is what we will do is we have a
25 board meeting Monday night and we will get the
36
1 time frame to do the SEQR with the public
2 hearing in that process . We will also set up a
3 public meeting to get any additional input from
4 the residents on this for people who couldn ' t
5 come now and anybody that ' s written in from
6 people that haven ' t attended , we can take a look
7 at that at the next meeting .
8 So we ' ll be setting up a time frame
9 to discuss this as the board . Can ' t do it on a
10 night of the board meeting because we have so
11 many other things that we do . We ' ll set this up
12 as a day that all the board members can meet and
13 then we ' ll open it up to the public comment and
14 continue any type of discussion that they would
15 like to put forward for the village aspect when
16 we do our component .
17 MR . AUSTIC : Keep in mind if no
18 decision is made within ninety days , it ' s
19 accepted .
20 MR . FERRENTINO : I recognize that .
21 MR . TYLER : Is that ninety days from
22 the close of the hearing , am I correct ?
23 MR . AUSTIC : Yep . Sue ?
24 MS . POELVOORDE : I have a question for
25 the village board , and there ' s some new members
37
1 on here . Can you address the issue of not
2 having an adopted comprehensive plan ? As far as
3 why you do not have an adopted comprehensive
4 plan in the village ?
5 MR . LEVINE : I don ' t think any of us
6 were on the board ten years ago when it last
7 came up . We ' ve been working on other aspects of
8 the zoning ordinance , but we haven ' t gotten to
9 that yet . This board , I don ' t think we ' ve taken
10 a position either way .
11 MS . POELVOORDE : Well , in order to help
12 you through the zoning update process too ,
13 having a comprehensive plan is a very important
14 document to , to guide you through that , that the
15 town has just gone through . I ' m wondering why
16 you ' re doing all your zoning and don ' t have a
17 comprehensive plan .
18 MR . FERRENTINO : I think when you look
19 at where all the related documents associated
20 with the comprehensive plan are independent ,
21 from zoning , mobile home park , to the SEQR , we
22 reviewed . We looked at the challenge of taking
23 what was done to that point forward . We started
24 tackling them and we took some of the bigger
25 ones first and the comprehensive plan was
38
1 basically laid out , it was pretty close .
2 There was work done on it by some of
3 these board members three years ago . We did
4 make some suggestions to the change , but we have
5 not revisited that . I think when you look at
6 the size of the footprint of the village and you
7 look at what comprehensive plan has been drawn
8 up , it ' s pretty straight forward what we can and
9 can ' t do in the village , when you look at what ' s
10 commercial already and what ' s residential , the
11 size of the village and what land is there .
12 So we prioritized these other topics
13 and we forged ahead on those and got those
14 completed . We still need to go back to the
15 master plan . It ' s almost complete . We have
16 looked at it . I ' m sure we have , assure you we
17 have to brush off the cobwebs to get back up to
18 speed on it , but the reason is that we focused
19 on the other areas .
20 MR . AUSTIC : I ' d like to make a comment
21 on that . If I remember when it was presented to
22 the village board ten or twelve years ago , and
23 at the same time the town was working on our
24 master plan , at that time there was an argument
25 that it was unnecessary to pass a master plan ,
39
1 you could accept it . And I think that ' s what
2 happened in the village , they accepted the plan
3 but didn ' t pass it . But the town on the other
4 hand passed their comprehensive plan , so ten or
5 fifteen years ago , there was some kind of an
6 opinion as to whether you should pass it or
7 whether you should accept it . And the village
8 accepted it and not passed it . So that ' s
9 probably why it wasn ' t passed . If they had
10 passed it - -
11 MR . TYLER : The document is there , you
12 certainly can ' t ignore it .
13 MR . AUSTIC : Right , it ' s there to work
14 from , but they did not actually pass it .
15 Any other comments on either board ?
16 MR . WEATHERBY : I have a question for
17 Mr . Krogh . Is there plans to enlarge the
18 trailer park and there ' s quite a bit of land
19 that ' s residential ?
20 MR . KROGH : Not that I ' m aware of at
21 this time . I mean , Mr . Auble doesn ' t have plans
22 one way or the other . If you wanted to expand
23 residential use on that parcel or expand
24 manufactured home use on that parcel , then yeah ,
25 I guess that ' s what he would do . But he doesn ' t
40
1 have any plans other than the water tower and
2 the road that you ' d build to get to the water
3 tower , which wouldn ' t - - he wouldn ' t be involved
4 with . He doesn ' t have any plans one way or the
5 other .
6 MR . FERRENTINO : He did mention to me
7 when I was discussing this with him early on
8 that where the potential site for the water
9 tower is , some of that property would be ideal
10 for a manufactured home park , and at that time I
11 indicated to him that we have a mobile home
12 ordinance , and that if he was interested in
13 doing that , to develop that , to follow that law
14 that we set up and he didn ' t seem to have a
15 problem at that time . He just said well , he
16 might want to do that and then I just said if he
17 wanted to do that , you would have to follow that
18 law to create a new path .
19 MR . KROGH : Yeah , it ' s something that
20 if the zoning came in and expanded the
21 manufactured home park so that it would permit
22 additional lots for , you know , more modern
23 homes , et cetera , yeah , it ' s something he could
24 do . But he ' s not planning on doing anything at
25 this time .
41
1 MR . AUSTIC : Any other comments from
2 any of the board members ? Either board ?
3 Okay , just one thing I ' d like to make
4 clear is whether you noticed or not , this
5 annexation proposal does not include the parcels
6 on the corner of Seneca Road and 96 . There ' s a
7 house and what used to be known as the old
8 Lamnoken ( phonetic ) facility there . So the
9 petition does not include those parcels at this
10 time .
11 MR . LEVINE : Also looks like there ' s a
12 little piece that ' s landlocked of somebody ' s
13 yard .
14 MR . AUSTIC : That ' s across the road .
15 MR . LEVINE : No , it ' s on parcel two .
16 MR . AUSTIC : That ' s in the village .
17 The housing is up in here , that ' s the house on
18 the corner .
19 MR . LEVINE : It looks like part of the
20 lot is landlocked .
21 MR . AUSTIC : Well , it might be , that ' s
22 true , if this map is correct . This would leave
23 a little piece of landlocked property in the
24 town around the village .
25 THE CLERK : That ' s in the village ,
42
1 7 . 288 , that ' s already in the village .
2 MR . AUSTIC : So the only parcel that
3 would be landlocked that the town would still
4 have authority over would be the two houses or
5 the house and the little business on the corner ,
6 Ehrharts , the residential property next to that
7 and the residential property across from the
8 Ehrharts .
9 MR . TYLER : So it ' s just those two
10 parcels .
11 MR . AUSTIC : It would be five probably ,
12 part and parcel of another one .
13 MR . FERRENTINO : There ' s one , two ,
14 three , four , five .
15 MR . LEVINE : Five on one side of the
16 road and two on the other .
17 MR . AUSTIC : The little triangle , that
18 property that Farrow had , that ' s still in the
19 town right behind the house there . So actually
20 if the annexation would proceed , I would imagine
21 that the town would probably rather have all
22 those properties into the village instead of
23 maintaining a little piece of town in the middle
24 of the village for road plowing services and all
25 that kind of stuff . It doesn ' t make sense to do
43
1 that . But at this time there ' s been no petition
2 to get in the village or be annexed in the
3 village . So I just wanted to make that clear
4 that those parcels are not involved in this
5 annexation procedure or hearing .
6 MR . LEVINE : You also have a mobile
7 home park on the other side of the road . You
8 can ' t annex into another town , and I ' m wondering
9 whether it would make more sense if we ' re going
10 to annex the hundred trailers on the south side
11 of the road , if we should annex the trailers on
12 the other side of the road .
13 MR . AUSTIC : I don ' t think you can
14 annex between counties .
15 MR . LEVINE : Yeah , you can . I looked
16 it up . There ' s more than one village in
17 New York in multiple counties .
18 MR . AUSTIC : Can you annex in another
i
19 county or is the village within the county to
20 begin in ?
21 MR . LEVINE : I ' ll go check again , but
22 I ' m pretty sure it ' s annexed .
23 MR . TYLER : It ' s a little more
24 involved , you can do it , but it ' s - -
25 MR . AUSTIC : That ' s your problem , you
44
1 have to get ahold of Covert .
2 MR . LEVINE : I contacted him last
3 night , there ' s no problem .
4 MR . AUSTIC : So go for it , that
5 probably would make sense .
6 MR . TYLER : What we ' re talking about is
7 already in your petition anyway , inadvertently .
8 MR . KROGH : That ' s true .
9 MR . AUSTIC : Any other comments ? Do I
10 hear a motion to adjourn then the joint meeting ?
11 MR . SCOTT : I ' ll make a motion to
12 adjourn .
13 MR . WILLERS : I ' ll second it .
14 MR . AUSTIC : Any discussion ?
15 ( Whereupon the motion passed
16 unanimously . )
17 MR . AUSTIC : Let ' s go home before it
18 snows any further and we can ' t get out of here .
19 * * * * *
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1 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing is
2 a true and accurate transcript of the notes taken by me in
3 the matter of THE JOINT PUBLIC HEARING OF THE TOWN OF
4 ULYSSES TOWN BOARD AND THE VILLAGE OF TRUMANSBURG TOWN
5 COUNCIL ON THE ANNEXATION OF PROPERTY , held on the 2nd of
6 December , 2003 , in Trumansburg , New York .
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Gabrielle Paige Hackett +r ` '
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