HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001-01-10 - TB I
f I 13 I AR "• I
11� I , I I I ( I , [II
) a
Town of Ulysses
Joint Town Board & Planning Board Zoning Work Session
1/ 10/2001
PRESENT: Planning Board Chairman George Kennedy, Planning Board Members
Lorren Hammond, Rose Hilbert, Paula Horrigan, David Tyler, Town Board
Members Andrew Hillman and Sue Poelvoorde, Planning Clerk Kahn Lanning .
Chairman George Kennedy called the meeting to order at 7 : 37 p. m .
The first matter of business before the assembled was the approval of minutes
from the Zoning Work Session of December 13, 2000 . Ms. Hilbert moved to
approve the minutes with an amendment she had noted . Mr. Tyler seconded
and the motion carded unanimously.
Chairman George Kennedy introduced the next matter of business as the
report from the Town Board to the Planning Board concerning its future work.
Mr. Kennedy noted that the Town Board had scheduled a Special Board Meeting
to discuss a written directive to the Planning Board for Wednesday, January 17m.
Mr. Hillman responded by noting that he was particularly interested to hear the
specific ideas of Board members Carolyn Duddleston and Robert Weatherby for
future work by the Planning Board and stating that all Town Board Members
would be thoroughly discussing the matter at the scheduled meeting .
Mr. Hillman introduced some photocopied excerpts he had brought for the
assembled from the book Rural By Design . Mr. Hillman called attention to one
excerpt concerning "the final crop", which is a technique for preserving open
farmland while allowing property owners to supplement their income by selling
lots. The final crop" method centers around low-grade, dirt roads existing on
the sidelines of a 100 acre plot of land, and lined by a cluster of houses. The
clustering of the houses along low-grade roads allows property-owners to sell
small lots for additional income while preserving a majority of their open land as
open space, and creating only two road-cuts. The acreage that remains open
space, under the "final crop" model, would continue to be zoned and taxed as
unimproved vacant land .
Ms. Poelvoorde noted that the Ithaca-Tompkins County Transportation Council,
which she serves on, is conducting a freight study to examine freight traffic
throughout Tompkins County and informed the Planning Board that the Council's
Director, Fernando De Aragon, had offered to speak to the Planning Board if they
so desired .
Chairman George Kennedy asked the Town Board members about a note
made at the Town Board meeting of January 9th, 2001 concerning the water
supply for the Jacksonville Water district coming out of the Town of Ithaca .
Mr. Hillman explained that the water the Town of Ithaca had said it could sell
to the Town of Ulysses would be drawn from Six Mile Creek, rather than Bolton
Point as had been understood . The source of the water created an issue of
legality for the selling of water by the Town of Ithaca to the Town of Ulysses.
This information was brought to the Town Board 's attention by a letter from City
of Ithaca Mayor Alan Cohen addressed to Ulysses Town Supervisor Douglas
Austic.
Ms. Hilbert noted a discussion she had had with a resident of Poughkeepsie,
New York, who told her about a sub-development effort similar to the "final crop"
method described in Rural By Design . Ms. Hilbert stated that in Poughkeepsie
property owners who formed such a development would not be taxed beyond
Town of Ulysses
Joint Town Board and Planning Board Zoning Work Session
1 / 10/2001
the levy for their land as undeveloped vacant land , so long as the new
development yielded at least that levy. Ms. Hilbert also noted that the
development of low-grade dirt roads in New York State had to be approved by
the State Attorney General 's Office .
Mr. Tyler expressed concern that this practice would create more demand for
municipal services while not raising the tax levy.
Ms. Hilbert stated that the development would yield more in taxes as soon as
houses were constructed .
Mr. Hillman noted that the practice of "the final crop" would reduce the labor of
the Highway Department by reducing the number of culvert installations it would
have to do, and would thereby alleviate some demand on municipal services.
Mr. Tyler noted that New York State roads not maintained by government
officials must be maintained by a Home-Owner's Association, and that obtaining
a permit from the State Attorney General's Office can be a very difficult process.
Ms. Hilbert stated that creating a "final crop" development would be
challenging , and wondered if it would be possible to create a deed clause
concerning road maintenance .
The assembled discussed this possibility.
Mr. Tyler stated that New York State law demanded sorne party be responsible
for maintaining low-grade roads, and noted that issues could also arise should a
sub-development be started but not fully filled .
Ms. Hilbert stated that the risk facing a party living at the end of a dirt road
would have to be acknowledged at the time of construction .
i
Ms. Poelvoorde noted that sub-development, or clustering, had been identified
as proactive and desirable, but was concerned that the Town Board members
that disapproved of previous proposals would also disapprove of the concept of
developing "final crop" sub-developments.
Mr. Kennedy introduced discussion on means of educating the public about
future proposed changes to the Town Zoning Ordinance.
Mr. Hammond asked about the possibility of submittina.i articles to local
newspapers.
Ms. Poelvoorde suggested public workshops to discuss changes, ramifications,
issues,etc : in order to give Town residents the information needed to form
informed and educated opinions on Zoning Ordinance changes. Ms. Poelvoorde
suggested holding a number of workshops in a variety of locations throughout
the Town of Ulysses.
Ms . Poelvoorde also suggested developing a Question and Answer sheet that
could be mailed or placed in the Pennysaver.
Mr. Hammond asked what level of participation could be expected and hoped
for at workshops.
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that those individuals who were most adamantly
opposed to changes would not come to speak until at a public hearing , and
noted that workshops would most likely be attended by a significant number of
undecided people .
2
:Ili r
Town of Ulysses
Joint Town Board and Planning Board Zoning Work Session
1 /10/2001
Ms. Horrigan stated that the Town should have hired a professional planner
who would have been able to inform Town Board , Planning Board and Town
residents about planning issues. Ms. Horrigan noted that Town of Ulysses
Planning Board Members were not professional planners, and noted a mixed
view of planning on the part of Town Board Members. Ms. Horrigan noted her
agreement with the frustration expressed by the Planning Board members at the
meeting of December 13th 2000, and stated that the Planning Board members
had addressed the disapproval of some Town Board members well .
Mr. Hammond noted that he felt "shouters" who spoke against the proposals
submitted by the Planning Board were listened to more than the advice of. the
Planning Board .
Mr. Tyler noted that the Planning Board was an advisory board, and that the
ability to change the Zoning Ordinance was held by the Town Board .
Mr. Hillman noted that the Town Board only lacked one vote in favor of
proposals.
Mr. Hillman stated that attentions should be given to the Jacksonville area, as
this area will be a prime location for rapid development if a water district is
formed at the south end of the Town of Ulysses.
Mr. Tyler agreed, and stated that a professional planner experienced with this
and other issues facing the Town should be hired . Mr. Tyler asked Mr. Hillman
and Ms. Poelvoorde if this would be likely.
Mr. Hillman felt it would be if he and Ms. Poelvoorde pushed for it.
Ms. Poelvoorde stated she did not believe Supervisor Austic was opposed to
the idea, and noted that she already asked him to set funds aside for this
purpose.
Ms. Poelvoorde recommended George Frantz to the assembled .
Mr. Hillman agreed with Ms. Poelvoorde's recommendation, and noted that
$3,000 of funds allocated for a contract with a Tompkins County Circuit Planner
would not be paid, as the terms of this contract were not fulfilled .
Ms. Poelvoorde recalled that Town Board Member Robert Weatherby had
nodded to her assertion at the January 9th Town Board Meeting that hiring a
professional planner would be an investment in the Town's future.
Mr. Kennedy asked if it was premature for the Planning Board to continue
working on developing a revised Zoning Ordinance without knowledge of
whether a Jacksonville/South End water district will be formed .
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that other issues in the Town need to be addressed and
acted on .
Mr. Hillman suggested proceeding as though the water district had already
been approved .
Mr. Kennedy asked what would happen if the existence of a Jacksonville area
water district was planned for and the water district were voted down .
Mr. Hillman stated that the planning would still be a good investment.
3
CaN•S
Town of Ulysses
Joint Town Board and Planning Board Zoning Work Session
1 / 10/2001
Mr. Hammond noted that the previous proposals drawn up in Joint work
sessions would not have been seriously altered by the existence of a water
district.
Ms. Hilbert noted that investors would start buying property as soon as they
believed that a water district would be formed, and that they would certainly
dissent any proposed changes after they had invested with the hope of
developing in the municipal water district.
Mr. Tyler noted that municipal water could change the .dacksonville area rapidly,
and that a wait could make the Planning Board unable to protect the character of
the Jacksonville area .
Mr. Hillman noted that, if the water district is approved ;, the district probably
would not be operational until 2003 .
Ms. Hilbert and Mr. Tyler pointed out that property would be purchased in
hopes of developing some time before this point. Mr. Tyler pointed out that the
owner of the former County Home had already sought to have this land
developed .
Ms. Hilbert suggested the Planning Board submit an article to the local papers
for the purpose of announcing the Board 's interest in seeing that Jacksonville
develop in the best way.
Mr. Tyler stated that this would be premature until the Planning Board receives
written directions from the Town Board .
Ms. Hilbert noted that the Town Board had encouraged the Planning Board to
educate the public at the December 13th, 2000 meeting .
Ms. Horrigan stated that the Town Board should express approval of the
Planning Board 's work to the public, and noted that certain speakers at the
public hearing on the proposal to increase minimum lot size and mandate a
storage facility should have been quieted by Town Board members.
Ms . Hilbert stated that Town Attorney Bruce Wilson had stated at the joint work
session of December 13th that the Town Board has no right to promote the
Planning Board at a public hearing .
Mr. Tyler noted that he felt Planning Board was a "trial Galloon " for the Town
Board .
Mr. Hillman and Ms. Poelvoorde stated they understood Mr. Tyler's
frustration, but this was not the case.
Ms . Poelvoorde noted that the recent public hearing was informally and
unprofessionally conducted . Ms. Poelvoorde noted that public hearings she has
been a part of in her profession opened with a presentation .
Mr. Hammond noted that the procedure at the last public hearing had alienated
the Planning Board from the Town Board .
Ms. Hilbert stated that Planning Board members should discuss future
proposals with Town residents personally.
4
1 I fl 1
L _ ' t ��
1I
.. t J . , fi . 6' v .i� le ` Cr , Mkt
I . 4 R . � • . I. f 141 RYI �i . : .:r.....c• .._..:m
DI
Town of Ulysses
Joint Town Board and Planning Board Zoning Work Session
1 /10/2001
Mr. Hammond stated that speaking of Jacksonville's future with the assumption
that a water district will be formed would stir up confusion as to the undecided
state of this matter.
Ms. Hilbert noted that an article could be submitted without mentioning
municipal water, and suggested simply citing Jacksonville as a key area for future
development.
Mr. Tyler noted that municipal water was, in essence, a direct anathema to
open space as it encourages clustered and rapid development. Mr. Tyler stated
that the complex issue created by Jacksonville's need for clean water and the
desire to preserve open space was one that could best be dealt with by a
professional planner to work with Town officials.
Mr. Hillman agreed, and noted that it would be preferable to issues of planning
if the water district only included the Hamlet of Jacksonville. Mr. Hillman also
stated that it was very important that changes to protect open space be
instituted soon to stop strip development, which would only be multiplied by the
development of a water district.
Chairman George Kennedy asked Ms. Hilbert for an update on the work of
the commercial subcommittee.
Ms. Hilbert reported that Supervisor Austic and Town Board Member Carolyn
Duddleston had cancelled one meeting and declined to re-schedule.
Mr. Kennedy stated he thought it would be best to not hold public workshops
until the commercial districts are better defined .
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that workshops could be held sooner to discuss general
amendments to the Zoning Ordinance and to get input from some Town
residents.
Ms. Horrigan noted that a professional planner and other laborers are needed
to conduct research .
Ms. Hilbert noted that a professional planner and college students could work
on research for the task of revising the Zoning Ordinance while public workshops
were conducted by Town Officials.
Ms. Horrigan agreed .
Mr. Tyler suggested conducting workshops in conjunction with other Town
meetings.
Ms. Horrigan suggested a strategically planned "visioning day" where Town
residents would be challenged to develop a view for the Town's future. Ms.
Horrigan noted that this would make planning a community issue.
Mr. Tyler suggested contacting educators of the Trumansburg Central School
District to gain some knowledge of other residents that are interested in
planning .
Ms. Hilbert suggested dividing the Town of Ulysses into regions and working
with different regions to determine what issues concern the residents of specific
areas in the Town . Ms. Hilbert asked if there was a good means of dividing the
Town into regions.
5
Town of Ulysses
Joint Town Board and Planning Board Zoning Work Session
1 / 10/2001
Mr. Tyler and Mrs. Lanning stated that tax parcel maps would serve this
purpose well .
Mr. Hammond asked if Town would agree to fund such mailings.
Ms. Hilbert believed so and suggested that a list of regional meetings could be
published in local papers.
fl
Ms. Horrigan suggested a " Planning Contest" as a means of fostering i
community interest and gaining knowledge of residents' ideas for the Town of
Ulysses. Ms. Horrigan described a similar contest held in Ithaca concerning ideas
for the "Octopus", noted that submissions would come in a variety of formats
and suggested offering prizes and setting up an exhibit. The submissions would
provide fuel for discussion .
Mr. Tyler stated this would be a good means of drawing out community
members that favor planning, but have not spoken up to date.
Ms. Horrigan noted that a contest could also be held in Social Studies classes at
Trumansburg Central School .
Mr. Tyler discussed the character of the Town of Ulysses, noting that a great
deal of local growth had bypassed the Town and that thus had caused the Town
of Ulysses to remain aesthetically attractive.
Mr. Hillman agreed .
Mr. Tyler stated that the very attractiveness of the Town of Ulysses and the
good rating of the Trumansburg Central School District are currently drawing �
people to the Town, and thus posing a challenge to the 'Town's aesthetics.
Mr. Hillman agreed and stated that relatively crowded conditions in the Ithaca
area are also pushing people towards the Town of Ulysses.
Ms . Hilbert stated that community pride, and a meeting to discuss the most
cherished characteristics of Ulysses would be good issues to look at in
conjunction with a "visioning day".
Ms. Horrigan suggested setting up dinner gatherings to discuss planning in the
various regions of the Town .
Ms. Hilbert and Mr. Hammond both stated this was a good idea .
Mr. Tyler stated that it was important for Town residents to understand that
changes or the status quo would each carry a cost to the Town . Mr. Tyler noted
that the understanding that some individuals would not be able to do what they
would like to with their land would put Town residents in the position of the
Planning Board members, as they try to decide what will! be best for the Town of
Ulysses.
Ms. Hilbert noted to the Town Board members present that a budget from the II
Town Board concerning the expenditures of the Planning Board to educate the
public would be helpful .
Ms. Horrigan noted that public meetings would provide a good opportunity for
Planning Board members to meet Town residents.
6
/1 . .. = I 1 . , �. ,. .!�_ a v r al a S LV 1114 . k ‘141 ,1
Town of Ulysses
9.S.
Joint Town Board and Planning Board Zoning Work Session
1 / 10/2001
Mr. Hillman noted that a local election will take place in November and
encouraged Planning Board members to run for positions on the Town Board .
Ms. Horrigan stated that grant applications for NYS Council of the Arts
Architecture, Planning and Designing funding are due March 1st.
Mr. Hillman thanked the Planning Board members for their insight and stated
that he and Ms. Poelvoorde had obtained some information to discuss with the
other Town Board members.
Mr. Hillman noted the current vacancy on the Planning Board and stated that,
though Mr. Budd Stover would be willing to serve again , he has become very
busy. Mr. Hillman noted that the Town Board would like the place to be filled by
an individual in agribusiness.
Ms. Hilbert suggested Meredith Kwiatkowksi and both Marvin and Alison Pritts.
Mr. Hillman noted that Robert Howarth has applied for a Planning Board
position several times.
It was noted that Mr. Howarth will be moving out of the Town .
Mr. Tyler stated that although Mr. Stover's participation as a Planning Board
member was minimal, he presented a diverse view . Mr. Tyler stated that he felt
this had been beneficial to the efforts of the Planning Board .
Ms. Poelvoorde stated the Town Board was looking for someone who would
participate.
Mr. Tyler stated that it was important to have someone involved in agriculture
on the Board .
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that she did not necessarily think a professional
planner's consensus with the Planning Board would change the minds of other
Town Board members.
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that it was her hope that George Franz, or another
professional planner will be hired soon , that more serious work might be
undertaken .
Mr. Hammond asked if the ideas of a professional planner would be better
received by the Town Board than those of the Planning Board . He wondered if
the Town Board 's opposition to the recent proposals reflected personal issues
with the Planning Board or Planning Board member.
Ms. Poelvoorde and Mr. Hillman both stated that a professional planner's
opinion might not be held any higher than the Planning Board 's
recommendations.
Ms. Poelvoorde also noted that there might be a new Town Board member in
2002 .
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that part of the problem behind some Town Board
members being opposed to the recent proposal was confrontation at joint work
sessions. Ms. Poelvoorde stated that Supervisor Austic had ceased to express his
opinion after confrontations, such as one where he was told he did not care
about the Town's future.
7
\().N°
Town of Ulysses
Joint Town Board and Planning Board Zoning Work Session
1 /10/2001
Mr. Hammond asked how breakdown of communication could be avoided in
the future.
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that the Town Board and Planning Board members
would have to find a way of communicating at meetings without confrontation .
Ms. Horrigan stated that confrontations stemmed from the frustration of the
Planning Board with the Town Board Members' lack of support and noted that I
the confrontation noted by Ms. Poelvoorde had been apologized for and had
it
occurred some time ago.
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that Supervisor Austic had difficulty communicating at
times.
Ms. Horrigan noted that Supervisor Austic had a problem with failing to support
those who Work for him .
Mr. Tyler and Mr. Hammond noted that Supervisor Austic has a number of
conservative friends. Mr. Hammond stated he did not believe Supervisor Austic
would disagree with any of these acquaintances.
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that Town Board and Planning Board members need to
find a way to discuss opinions without communication patterns that will cause
some individuals to stop participating in discussion . Ms. Poelvoorde urged the
Planning Board not to give up because of previous challenges.
Mr. Tyler noted that the Planning Board had developed into a good group.
Noting that it had previously been made up of conservatives, Mr. Tyler noted
that the current group is much more willing and ready to make changes to the
Town.
Mr. Hammond asked how the situation whereby the Planning Board believed
falsely it had the approval of all Town Board members could be avoided in the
future.
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that the two Boards will have to create a meeting
environment where all individuals can feel comfortable expressing their opinions.
Ms. Poelvoorde also stated that the active involvement of Code Enforcement
Officer Alex Rachun was important.
Ms. Horrigan stated that several recent meetings had I )een civil and that the
understanding of the Planning Board was that the recently proposed
amendments were satisfactory to all Town Board members.
Ms. Poelvoorde stated that all Town Board members had agreed to bring the
proposal to public hearing .
Mr. Hammond stated that Supervisor Austic had no right to agree to do so
when he disagreed with the proposal .
II . .
Mr. Tyler stated that doing so was a politician's prerogative.
Mr. Hammond stated that Supervisor Austic should not have allowed the
Planning Board to waste its time and effort by giving the go-ahead for the
proposed amendments and stating he disagreed with their content later.
Chairman George Kennedy stated that discussion was becoming repetitious.
8
> ' i II I if it
& , I I 11 r r ' tr
$ I
1 ' f Iii { z
ri
it I . � It t ` lt� �a ' I � t
I
1 I t � � r IA 1 3 �'S I � I(
e .. i i . I . _ .. • ., , I I , A . t :.I fl u 11 ' �� 7" I .I [ n .t� . ...,d�a{.a--.i.
Town of Ulysses `
Joint Town Board and Planning Board Zoning Work Session
1 / 10/2001
The Planning Board members thanked Town Board Members Mr. Hillman and Ms.
Poelvoorde for listening .
Mr. Hillman and Ms. Poelvoorde encouraged the Planning Board not to get
discouraged .
Ms. Hilbert stated that the Planning Board has only three years to complete the
Zoning Ordinance before Ms . Poelvoorde's term ends.
Mr. Hillman noted that he, Supervisor Austic, and Robert Weatherby terms will
end this year.
Ms. Poelvoorde noted that Town Clerk Marsha Georgia and Highway
Superintendent James Meeker's terms will also end this year.
Chairman George Kennedy introduced his plan to review the current Zoning
Ordinance in order to identify Articles and Sections needing no change, minor
change, and major change .
Chairman George Kennedy stated that he would be out of town for both
February meetings and possibly the January 25th meeting as well and asked for a
volunteer to serve as acting chair for these meetings.
Ms. Hilbert noted that she would be away for the February 22nd meeting .
Mr. Kennedy suggested canceling this meeting as it would take place only eight
days after the first February meeting on February 14th
After some discussion, Mr. Hammond moved seconded by Mr. Tyler that Ms.
Hilbert should fill this position . The motion passed unanimously.
With no further business, Mr. Tyler moved, seconded by Mr. Hammond to
adjourn . The motion passed unanimously, and the meeting was adjourned at
9 : 23 p . m .
Submitted by,
Karin T. Lanning
Planning Clerk
9
,
FI
de