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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-11-12TOWN OF GROTON — MINUTES OF TOWN BOARD MEETING TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 12, 2019 AT 7:30 PM THE TOWN HALL, 101 CONGER BOULEVARD Town Officers Present: Donald F. Scheffler, Supervisor Richard Gamel, Councilperson Crystal Young, Councilperson Brian Klumpp, Councilperson Sheldon C. Clark, Councilperson Michael Perkins, Highway Supt. April L. Scheffler, Town Clerk Charles Rankin, Bookkeeper W. Rick Fritz, Code Official Don Armstrong, Attorney Town Officers Absent: A. D. Dawson, Town Justice John Norman, Town Justice Also Present: Glenn Morey Heather McDaniel Dan Carey Lisa Maloney Hahn John Benson Lillyan McCormick Abby Corcoran Averie Roberts Daniel Spitzer Andrew Sullivan MOVED by Councilperson Gamel, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp, to approve the minutes of the October 8, 2019 meeting as presented. Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler MOVED by Councilperson Young, seconded by Councilperson Gamel, to approve the minutes of the October 15, 2019 public hearing and special meeting as presented. Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler RESOLUTION 419-101 - APPROVE PAYMENT OF INVOICES MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Gamel WHEREAS, vouchers for Abstract #11, numbered 492 - 55lwere reviewed and audited by the Town Board, be it RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves said vouchers for the accounts and in the total amounts as follows: Code Fund Totals A GENERAL FUND 84,960.67 B GENERAL FUND PART TOWN 437.79 DA HIGHWAY FUND 34,539.85 DB HIGHWAY FUND PART TOWN 3,065.44 SL2- PERUVILLE LIGHTING DISTRICT 160.81 SLI- MCLEAN LIGHTING DISTRICT 261.65 Total: 123,426.21 Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Town Board Allnutes Page 2 November 12, 2019 Monthly Reports: Charles Rankin, Bookkeeper - Submitted monthly reports for the Board's review and requested a budget transfer. RESOLUTION 419-102 - 2019 BUDGET TRANSFERS MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves the following 2019 Budget Transfers: From: General Repairs, Contractual. D135110.4 ....................................$15.000.00 Employee Benefits, Workers Compensation Insurance. DB9040.8........... 500.00 To: General Repairs, Personal Services. DB5110.1................................5.000.00 Employee Benefits, Health Insurance. DB9060.8............................10.000.00 Employee Benefits, Social Security. DB9030.8..................................500.00 Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed W. Rick Fritz, Code/Fire Enforcement Officer - Submitted monthly reports for the Board's review. nlichael Perkins, Highway Superintendent - We helped the County with some paving on Pleasant Vallee and Smith Road. Also assisted with some flooding on Smith Road on Halloween night. Most of the treks are ready for winter. We did a lot of repair work on the salt shed and I think in the spring or summer, we'll have to do something different with that. We fixed up some shoulders and driveways and did a little bit of plowing and sanding. April L. Scheffler, RMC, Town Clerk/Tax Collector - Submitted monthly reports for the Board's review which included the _fig & Markets inspection reports on Country Acres Pet Services. Don Armstrong, Attorney for the Town - Had nothing to report. John J. Norman and A. D. Dawson, Town Justices - Were not present. Councilperson Crestal Young as Representative to Joint Youth Program - Gave the following report: Tompkins Coamtr Recreation Partnership Board: Nothing to report Groton Joint Recreation Committee: • Cabin Fever event will take place on February 29th. 2020. A grant was completed and awarded for $1.000. • Summer Concert grant is done • Trails Committee: Working on final reports and submitting reimbursement documents for the Trails Grant. Will have final report done my mid-November. Revised Local Law No. 4 for the Park to include 'trails". This includes Hours of Operation: Entry at other than authorized hours without a permit: Possession or Town Board Allnutes Page 3 November 13, 3019 consumption of alcoholic beverages: and Disorderly person. This is being taken to the Village Board for approval. There were several trees that came down during stone. Some were cleared, but some were going to be left to deter motorized vehicles on trails. A document is being drafted to _adopt -a -Trail. Lots of people/groups have offered so we just need a system in place. There are five sections to be adopted. Fall and spring will be busy times for these groups for trail cleanup. Hunting is banned on trails, however there are tree stands that are being used. These are being taken down and "NO HUNTING" signs are being posted. It was decided not to close the trails during hunting season, but will post warnings about hunting season. Most people are aware and avoid trails during hunting. Plexiglass on one of the trail signs at the park along with fencing was damaged due to vandalism. Fids were identified. Big THANKS to Fire Department and EXIT's who spent a day on the trails evaluating them for emergency response. Groton Louth Commission: • Monica has lots of events happening with the youth. _approximately 400 children enjoyed this year's Trunk or Treat despite the rain. • Angela Conger was hired as the Media Coordinator for Groton Harvest. Youth will also be hired this month to begin helping with the "Groton Fresh" program which will allow 25 families fresh produce, spices and recipes to go along with the traditional backpack food program over weekends and school breaks. Glenn Morey, County Legislator - Had nothing to report. Chuck Rankin, as Representative to Health Insurance Consortium - There is a municipal cooperative agreement between all the municipalities that participate in the Consortium, and every five years it goes up for review. So. 2020 is the year for review and we're starting to get ready for it. They've had a bard time getting the labor representatives to come to the meetings. Currently there is one labor rep for every five municipalities but they have decided to cap it at ten once they bit 58 municipalities. Right now we are in the comment period and if you think everything is fine. I have a form letter to be signed. The whole thing is posted online if you want to read all of it. The big thing is that they are going to go to an executive committee of between 11 and 15 people and there is a new section to lay that out. RESOLUTION 419-103 - UTHORIZE SUPERVISOR TO SIGN LETTER TO HEALTH INSURANCE CONSORTIUM MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Gamel RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby gives authority to the Town Supervisor to sign the letter to the Health Insurance Consortium in reference to the proposed changes to the municipal cooperative agreement. Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Town Board Allnutes Page 4 November 13, 3019 Supervisor Scheffler - Last month we tabled the discussion on speed limit changes on Salt Road. (He asked the Town Clerk if she had received anything else from the petitioners and she had not.) What does the Board want to do with it? Councilperson Gamel - My personal opinion is that it's fine just the way it is. Councilperson Klumpp - I go back to what I said last month, it's not a speed issue, it's an enforcement issue. We could put the speed limit at 35 and people are still going to go 65 on that road. Councilperson Clark - I feel the same way. Councilperson Young - Yes, I feel the same way. I think it's an enforcement issue. Consensus of the Board was to take no action. Supervisor Scheffler introduced Dan Spitzer, an attorney representing _abundant Solar and Heather McDaniel. _administrative Director of the Tompkins County Industrial Development _-agency (IDA). Ms. McDaniel - Just to give you a little bit of background, the IDA was created by the Tompkins County Legislature in 1973. They are given the authority by the State to abate a variety of property taxes, sales taxes and mortgage recording taxes for projects. Since 1973 we've delivered incentives to 139 projects that have paid over 46 million in new property taxes: invested over 1.2 billion in facilities in Tompkins County: and created over 4.500 new jobs in our communities. I think we've delivered incentives in every municipality in Tompkins County. They primarily deliver incentives for industrial facilities and manufacturing facilities. They create long tern, quality job opportunities. More and more, we've been doing research and development facilities affiliated with Cornell to help start companies and keep companies growing in Tompkins County. We've done some work in Groton in the business park there. You have a new cheese maker out there. And we've partnered with the City of Ithaca to do more community development projects downtown. We've actually increased the tax base by almost 100 million dollars in the City of Ithaca. So, why would the IDA be involved in solar? It's not your industrial or manufacturing kind of project. It's not creating direct jobs on site. We got involved with solar because we started bearing from our counterparts throughout the State that the State had allowed off-site community solar to happen but no projects we being developed. In 2016 nothing was happening. We were seeing a lot of solar development in other states but in New York State the electricity rate is very low and the incentive amounts being offered by the State were very low compared to other states. Other states are incentivizing solar for 10. 15 and 20 years. New Fork the State is providing a declining incentive for 3 to 5 years. So, the economics for these projects really didn't work in New York. Then layer on top of that, the property taxes. If you build a building, that improvement increases in value over time and the way that New Fork State law is written, that's bow you value a solar improvement, much like a building. But a solar panel doesn't actually increase in value over time, it declines. So, there's a little bit of an issue with the way the State law is written around valuing solar facilities. They'Ve fixed that in other states. In 2016 nothing was being developed in terns of off-site community solar. These are 2-5 megawatt projects that enable consumers to purchase energy that's generated from renewable sources. So it provides consumer choice. The reason the IDA has gotten involved is because of this property tax issue, recognizing we can't do anNqhmg about some of the other issues that were impacting solar. So, we got involved and started looking at this extensively. We started by looking at the State's goals. The Governor has this Reforming the Energy Vision and has broad goals around reducing carbon emissions. Then we looked at Town Board Allnutes Page S November 13, 3019 the County's goals to reduce carbon emissions, transferring more to renewable energy sources. So, we started talking to solar developers and asked what's going on. The economics don't work on these projects. So, we took a look and very similar to what happens around wind development, they've started delivering a property tax payment valued at a certain dollar amount per megawatt of output of the facility. We were one of the first IDAs in New York State to develop a policy. _y policy that supports the State's goals and our County's goals around developing renewable energy. I spent a lot of time working with existing solar developers. They came in: they opened their books: they showed me their revenue models: they showed me all of the tax implications for these projects. So, what we did is we set a range, working with NYSERDA, who is also providing some incentives for solar. So, we sort of identified what a reasonable rate was based on a number of variables: what utility area you were in: and set a dollar amount that was a reasonable amount for projects to start happening. Every off-site solar project that has been built in New York State to date has had some sort of property tax payment affixed to it that's not based on the actual value. When we looked at the projects, if you assess them the same as you do a building, their tax payment would be more than 10 times what the actual revenues on those projects would be without even taking into account any of their expenses. So, clearly, they weren't going to happen. Our solar policy, we set a tax payment over 20 years somewhere between $4.200 and $4.800 per megawatt and it increases by 20o per year. Now, why would you do that? It provides certainty for the taxing jurisdiction. You know what you're going to get for the tax payment. It provides certainty for the project so they can underwrite and finance those facilities over a 20 year period. And it provides additional tax revenue for the municipalities. We've been delivering payment in lieu of tax agreements since 1973. We have a model in place and have experts on staff that can do that. We have a process for billing all of those PILOTS through the County Finance Department and the County Assessment Department. So, we stepped in and since 2016, we've approved 13 solar projects throughout Tompkins County that will deliver almost 52 megawatts of renewable energy generation. The capitol investment on those projects is over $100 million. With the stable tax rates that we've assessed for those projects over a 20 year period it's estimated that they will pay over $10 million in new property taxes. So, that's new tax base for the Town, the County, and the School District. The School District is really the big beneficiary here because there's no impact on the School to have solar panels generating renewable energy. I'm happy to answer any questions. I was asked to give a value if it's a 5 megawatt project. My estimate would be that they'd pay about $21.000 in property taxes in year one and that would increase 20o a year. That's based on our policy. So, over 20 years a 5 megawatt project would pay over $522.000 in property taxes split between the School District, the Town and the County. We do not set any tax payments for is special districts. Those property taxes would be based on the frill value of the facility. Couneilperson Klumpp asked what they would be paying if they didn't have a PILOT. nls. McDaniel - I can't tell you that number off the top of my bead. It would be significantly more than that. What I have found is the projects wouldn't happen because they couldn't afford to pay it. Couneilperson Klumpp - I understand that but it's important to know what they're asking for. I spoke with the Tompkins County Assessment Department and I believe the number was $30.000 per megawatt is what they would be paying. Mr. Spitzer - So that's not assessed value, you're saying that's the tax? Couneilperson Klumpp - Yes, so we're looking $21.000 a year as opposed to $150.000. Mr. Spitzer - I think it would be higher than that actually. That sounds pretty low to be honest with you for frill taxes and what I understood your taxes to be. Town Board Allnutes Page 6 November 13, 3019 Councilperson Klumpp - I'm just trying to say that those two numbers are a long distance apart. Ms. McDaniel - Well they're a long distance apart because there's an issue with the way that the State values a solar facility. Councilperson Klumpp - Well, wouldn't it make sense that instead of creating PILOTS for each municipality, if there's a problem with the way the State is taxing solar fauns, shouldn't it be solved at the State level? Shouldn't they change it there. Ms. McDaniel - That's the first thing that I said. Mr. Spitzer - So, the State doesn't tell you how to value it. It's done by the local assessor. The problem is that the State hasn't given guidance. Councilperson Klumpp - It's a State initiative for the green energy. Mr. Spitzer - It's a State initiative and it's a State entity. NYSERD_y, that said here's a calculator that you can use to calculate a fair PILOT and here's a calculator to value a fair assessment. Councilperson Klumpp - What's fair? Are we using fair correctly? Mr. Spitzer - _y fair number for a PILOT that my client is looking for is what can they afford to pay and achieve a rate of return so an investor will invest in the project. If I'm going to invest or buy this project, there are certain tax aspects that are useful to me.....(not using microphone)... accelerated depreciation: cash flow attributes: I'm looking for a rate of return based on my investment. If I look at affordable housing credits: I look at other credits: opportunity zones that have come up recently, and I say how much money can I make if I invest in those. And so to have solar or any other competing investment opportunity make sense, you basically have to have the rate of return. Councilperson Klumpp - So if a company has a product. It's going to cost me this much money and I'm going to go to the assessors and say I can only pay this much in taxes or I'm not going to do it. Mr. Spitzer - That's exactly right. I don't know of anybody who builds a product or a plant or solar plant or anyone else if the taxes and other cost are such that they don't make a profit. Councilperson Klumpp - No, but in this situation you're telling the IDA, your telling the municipality, we can only pay this much in taxes as opposed to trying to make your product a viable product. Mr. Spitzer - Go back to what Heather said the goal is here. The way community solar works is, it only works if you can take the revenues they give you and the subsidies and the tax credits and sell energy in a way that local people within the zone save 100 0 on their energy bill. If I get an invitation to buy from a solar facility and it's going to cost you 100o more obviously you're not going to buy it. One of the things we often do as far as the PILOT is give people in the Town first right of refusal and say the people in the Town get the benefits first and get the first shot at the energy savings. That's very typical in our offers. Sometimes, if the numbers are right, we give an additional discount to the people in the community. It's all about at the end of the day can you sell your product for a profit. And selling our energy for a profit, it means that we have to sell energy for less than it costs. Energy is actually very cheap these days. Councilperson Klumpp - But you can't sell your product at a profit unless you get a significant reduction on what you're paying on taxes. Town Board Allnutes Page - November 13, 3019 Mr. Spitzer - That's exactly right. That's the reason why, as Heather mentioned, every single generation project, not just solar, that's been built in this State has tax break. Councilperson Gamel - You're certain about that? Mr. Spitzer - Oh absolutely. I've probable worked on more solar than anyone in the State. But I'm not aware of anyone who ever built a power plant of any kind without going to an IDA or otherwise getting a tax break. For example, one of the things that happens when you build solar facilities or other generating facilities, by state law, most of the generating facilities are exempt from sales tax. The panels, for example are, not the whole project. The State Legislature made the detennination, we're not going to charge sales tax on certain equipment and power generating equipment is one of those things that they've exempted. So, there's no project in the State that would ever say, know what New Fork. I'm not going to take that sales tax break, here's a check for sales tax anyways. I'm quite positive that every power plant has gotten at least a sales tax break. You cannot afford to build a profitable project and pay frill taxes, so you'd just walk away. Also, from Houtan Moaveni, who you may be aware of. I spoke to him again recently and I've worked with NYSERDA actually, helped them write the solar calculator and PILOT laws. Every project in the State has gotten some tax break. You can not afford it and have a profitable project and pay frill taxes. So, you would walk away rather than build that project. Supervisor Scheffler - Then it's not a viable business. Mr. Spitzer - It's a viable business under New York State Law. Supervisor Scheffler - But not on even keel with any other business. Mr. Spitzer - Well. I'd like to know what business you think- is going to come to town without a tax break. No factory is going to come to town without a tax break. Supervisor Scheffler - I beg to differ with you. We have successful businesses here now that have never asked for a break or expected a break. Mr. Spitzer - Do you have a lot of fanning here? 9000 of exemption on their taxes because of ag exemption. Take some of those exemptions away and tell me how many fauns would be left. Supervisor Scheffler - They'd all be left because we have to eat and the price of food would go up. Mr. Spitzer - That's really not true of agriculture in this state. If you took those ag exemptions away, our fanners are already hurting in this state. The State proposes an enormous impact ......?.... (not using microphone).......... So, you're absolutely right that this model would not work without a property tax break. If anybody comes to you and says A this isn't a break, or we're not getting a break, they're obviously not telling the truth because it is, as Heather said, a tax break. Now, let's talk about why you would give a tax break. What would you get if you didn't give a break. And anybody who tells you, A this is the exact amount of a fair break. I'd like to meet that person, because it certainly is an art more than a science in teams of what the correct break is. But there's a lot of things we use, so let me give you an example. On of the problems that schools have with PILOTS is that PILOTS help tax base, not towns and schools and counties. PILOTS go against your tax cap. Now, if you're a town you can override the tax cap with three votes. If you're a school district, and all of a sudden the PILOT money disappears after 15 years, you've got to go out to the vote of the people. So, one of the things we've done with school districts, and I don't know if anyone has done this with your IDA, instead of giving them a PILOT, we call their share an educational contribution agreement. And we take the money that we give the school and we fund scholarships, science fairs, trips, we fund all the things that taxpayers can't fund. What that does is add wealth to the community with this Town Board Allnutes Page 8 November 13, 3019 payment, rather than just saving taxpayers some money. Everybody understands that the PILOT money reduces the burden on the taxpayer but it doesn't necessarily create wealth for the entity itself. We did this with an IDA up in Wayne County, the Town of Williamson, we took their town payment and figured out what the payment would be over the period of time and we wrote one check to them and they were able to do a project that they wanted to do without financing it because they got it all at once. So, while Heather has described what a typical PILOT is under New York law which is an annual amount divided up amongst the entities by tax rate there's actually ways to work with the solar companies to actually increase the wealth in the community, not just save the taxpayers a little bit of money. That's what PILOTS do. If I gave you a PILOT. that would go against your tax cap unless you had additional needs .... that way you'd be spending the same and it would save taxpayers money. There's no question. The larger the project is, for example the wind faun up in Clinton County, up by the Canadian border, they get PILOTS from two wind fauns. They have no town tax at all and they write one check to the County for everybody's county tax. The benefit there is to the taxpayer. The budget of those towns stay the same. So, if you were to allow this project in, what would you get? You'd get around $21.000 a year, going up every year at least for 20 years. That would save the taxpayers in the county, school, and town, that much money. It would shift the money over. But we could set the agreement up in certain ways, with the IDA's help and your help, so that we call it different things, we could actually improve the wealth of the community. If there was no tax break, if you said we understand that the State has stated that these will be tax exempt however we want a PILOT equal to frill taxes. I assume you all know that even if you haven't opted out, you can ask for a PILOT equal to frill taxes, which opt outs are nice but they're meaningless, because you have a right to a PILOT that's equal to frill taxes. So, you work out a deal that brings money into the community that the community otherwise is not going to get. Unlike most IDA deals, you don't get a lot of jobs. You get some constriction money and jobs because everything is done as local as it can be, but this is not like bringing in a plant with 50 or 100 jobs by any means. But it does add to the community. More importantly, it doesn't cost the community anything. There's no negatives. No police requirements, no fire requirements, and the fire people, they get frill taxation. There's school increases. So you get an increase into your community. The fanner gets some revenue. I have a lot of solar projects that I've worked on that the only thing keeping the faun alive and making a difference is to lease the land to us for more than they can make growing crops on it. In a lot of cases we are keeping fauns around the State in business because of that extra revenue. Everything that solar does adds to the community value at almost no cost. People say, now wait a minute, you're not paying frill taxes. Well, if you noticed, that you're clearly aware of, at frill taxes, we're not here. It's simply a matter of you cannot afford to sell your product that local energy users will buy if you have to pay frill taxes, and that's the reality of it. So, the question is that if we have a product that has virtually no environmental impact, if we have a project that meets some of the goals of the community in teens of cleaner air. Some of the other problems that are coming on board as the government shirts down all of these power plants, you're going to see more and more of New York become like California in teens of liability issues. Having a local solar facility gives you the ability to potentially built a micro -grid or otherwise protect yourself in terns of resiliency. A lot of the solar projects that I work on, in addition to selling to the community, we have purchase agreements lease departments, hospitals, schools, so that they're going to stay on if the power otherwise goes down. That's a benefit the community doesn't get without a tax break. So, are you giving a tax break, yes. Are you taking money away from anybody, the answer is no. So, finding the right number, but I have absolutely no question that you are adding wealth to the community by saying yes to a PILOT. Ms. McDaniel - I would just add to that that all of these projects that I've seen in Tompkins County, they've spent significantly on the interconnect, which means that they're upgrading the Town Board Allnutes Page 9 November 13, 3019 electrical infrastructure. All over New York State our grid is in dire need of investment and so these companies are coming in and they're actually reinforcing lines, putting new lines in, which is a benefit to the users of this system. The other thing that I've seen is that communities can develop a host community agreement. They've worked in tandem with the IDAs. The IDAs have reduced the property tax payment and then left it up to the municipalities to negotiate a host community agreement that provides an additional payment that's not a property tax payment. So, there's benefits there for the community. Mr. Spitzer - Said that the production from the solar panel decreases over time, but to remember that the payment with a PILOT increases 20o a year. Also, that if you didn't do a PILOT there was no guarantee that frill taxes would still be a higher amount at the end of the 20 years, it could actually be lower than what you would get with a PILOT. Supervisor Scheffler - If you want a tax break now because you can't afford it, but 15 years from now, you can pay 20o more but the income from your solar panels has decreased, how is this balancing out? How can you pay it then and at the same time you're going to go to the assessment office and say that my solar fanm is only worth $2.000 and get your assessment lowered. Then we still wouldn't get anything. Mr. Spitzer - Well, obviously, if you have a PILOT, you don't care about the assessment, except for the fire department, which is very low. So, you don't go to the assessment office, you don't get an appraisal, you don't spend that money fighting in court over assessments. _also. I'm not aware of a subscription to solar that stays at the same price, so the price also goes up. These companies obviously do business models and they figure in the price they have to charge for these subscriptions. They're not going to charge the same price 20 years from now as they are charging today. Just like everything else in life, things go up, and it's built in. When we do things for a town and give the $50.000, that's capitalized debt, so we actually borrow that. Where we get that is from our investors and we're able to take that as part of our investment. So, that's covered in the price from day one and it's actually cheaper that way for us. That's why we like to offer that to towns. Supervisor Seheffler - I wish our Fire Chief was here. I realize that they will get a higher amount because that's not part of the PILOT. But it worked out to about $4.000 a year. They have to send all the guys to training and there's no money out there for training. So, that's not going to go very far. Mr. Spitzer - With due respect. I'm not aware of anybody who had a solar fanm catch fire in this state. But the training, why don't you ask us to pay for it? Why don't you say in addition to the PILOT, we want you to pay for the training? With the wind fanms we do that all the time. Councilperson Gamel - Why can't we ask you to pay more taxes then? Mr. Spitzer - Because at a certain point, training is not that expensive, you can ask us to pay a higher PILOT and we'll figure out what the PILOT is, but if you ask us to pay frill taxes, the project won't get built. Councilperson Gamel - So there's a breaking point for you. Why don't you just come out and tell us the breaking point. Mr. Spitzer - $4.300. Councilperson Gamel - Of course it is. So, if we come together and say $4.500 a megawatt, you're going to walk? Mr. Spitzer - No, probably not. I also said it was an art. If I expected you not to negotiate I'd be ver, embarrassed that the Town Board didn't at least tr,. Town Board Allnutes Page 10 November 13, 3019 Councilperson Klumpp - I want to bring up a point because that's what we're doing right here, we're negotiating. I don't like that there's different riles for different businesses. So, if solar companies have the right to come before municipalities to negotiate, if that's the case, then every business owner should be able to come in front of the Town Board and say I don't want to pay frill taxes. I'm a doctor. I'm offering a good service, and your community needs a doctor, so I really can only afford to pay $300 a year for my property taxes. Ms. McDaniel - The Town doesn't have the ability to negotiate property taxes. Councilperson Klumpp - Well, the IDA, my point is still there. Ms. McDaniel - For an industrial project every IDA has their set incentives. For the Tompkins County IDA, we do one of the most conservative abatement schedules in all of New York State. For a manufacturer, it's a 7 -year faze -in of your new taxes associated with your project. We abate 930 0 of the taxes in year one and it declines over seven Nears. If you go to Steuben CountN and you're going to make the same investment, you're going to get a 20 -Near abatement and I would guarantee you it's going to be 10000 of your new taxes for the first 10 Nears. Most IDAs do 10. 15 and 20 -Near abatements. We're talking about industrial development, a multi-million dollar investment. Those are projects the that we will deliver incentives to. I don't know of any IDA in New Fork State that's going to deliver a property tax incentive for a single sen7ice provider. Councilperson Klumpp - That's my point. Mr. Spitzer - We're talking about a company that's coming to your community and investing 10 -million dollars. We're not talking about a civil sen7ice.... Councilperson Gamel - But they're not investing it here. Mr. Spitzer - Well of course they are. We're building it in your town. Councilperson Gamel - Yes, but you're not investing in our communitN. Mr. Spitzer - What does that mean? We're spending 10 -million dollars in your eonnnunitN. Councilperson Gamel - Not to us, you're not. You're not giving that to us. Mr. Spitzer - Neither does anyone else. No one writes a check to you for the 10 -million dollars that it takes to build an office building. Councilperson Gamel - They are paying taxes. Mr. Spitzer - They pay workers to do the construction. Councilperson Gamel - They create jobs. Mr. Spitzer - Nobody builds a new office building in this state without tax breaks. Councilperson Klumpp - Okay, that's my second point. New Fork State realizes that their property taxes are so high that we can't get people to build here unless we give them a tax break..... Mr. Spitzer - I'm not aware of any state that doesn't give tax breaks.... Councilperson Klumpp - Can I finish? New Fork State's property taxes are. I believe, the highest in the country. If not, they're number two. So, therefore, they're changing tax laws. providing PILOT programs, giving IDAs opportunities to give new businesses or existing businesses that want to expand, they're giving them tax breaks in order to improve New York State's economy. If lower taxes are going to improve the economy, then why not give lower taxes to everybody, big and small? Town Board Allnutes Page 11 November 13, 3019 Ms. McDaniel - That's not a problem I can solve. Mr. Spitzer - Leah, we're not the New Fork State Legislature. Councilperson Klumpp - Well. I'm making a point. I have a chance to vote on something right now... Mr. Spitzer - ...investing in my community because it's too expensive to build in New Fork. Every town in Upstate New Fork is losing population.... Councilperson Klumpp - .....because our property taxes are too high. We're relying on our Governor and our State Legislature that really isn't representing Upstate New Fork very well. We're relying on them and their past decisions. Downstate. New York Cite is much different that Syracuse. Utica. Groton, in that it doesn't matter bow high the taxes are in New York Cite, people are still going to build there, move their businesses there because it's the financial capitol of the world. They have a draw there. We don't have the draw. So if we have these property tax values that are based on downstate assemblymen and senators, we have a big problem. I think Upstate communities should start pushing back on these high taxes. Ms. McDaniel - I don't think we're going to solve any of that here...... Mr. Klumpp - We can solve that here.... Ms. McDaniel - ....I'm here to say that the Tompkins County IDA has been delivering PILOTS since 1973. We're certainly trying to find ways that increase tax base, and increase benefits to communities. We have a police that we will implement for off-site conunercial solar projects and part of the police for solar is that we've asked municipalities to support our ability to do that. And that's completely up to you. I'm happy to answer questions. If this is a project that you want to see move forward, and you'd like the IDA to be involved in terms of delivering that property tax payment amount, we're happy to do that. I'm happy to come out and answer questions if you have follow up questions or want any other specific information and that's really why I came here today. I don't think I can solve the State's tax situation. I've seen what other states are doing in terns of solar and they are giving away a lot more at the state level than New York State even with the IDAs. Mr. Spitzer - Can I ask where we are with the project? It's my understanding from Rachel is that this project is not moving in terns of review of the project. I don't understand so can you fill me in on that? She sent an application for approval of the zoning, is my understanding. A lot of people were talking at once. The Board explained that Rachel was originally given what needed to be submitted but did not do anything for quite some time. Somebody said that Mr. Broclnt had submitted some plans but it was not clear exactly bow many megawatts were going to be built as the Board was told it could be 2 or 3 or up to 8. Councilperson Gamel - So, we've been told as high as 8 megawatts. We're talking about green things, but some of the things that just don't mesh for me is 8 acres of trees being cut down to put in solar panels. That's a big one for me. It was explained that the Town had hired an engineer and that they were still waiting to bear from him. Mr. Spitzer - Well. I assume you have the application because I have a copy of it. I'd like to have a process for our engineers to talk to each other and make sure that we're answering your questions. What you said is a question when you do the SEQR review. That's one of the reasons I was sent here tonight is to figure out where the process stands. I wasn't just sent to make you upset about taxes. Town Board Allnutes Page 13 November 13, 3019 The Board discussed the fact that they had not beard from their engineer Attorney Casullo was supposed to be communicating with the engineer. said that be didn't know anything about it. . Someone said that Attorney _ mistrong. Supervisor Scheffler - We are not against solar or this plan. We just want to treat everybody the same and tr, to be fair to ever,bod,. Again, everybody started talking at once. Mr. Spitzer said that if the Board didn't want them to come to just say so and they would go away. The Board said that they were not against solar. Mr. Spitzer said that the $21.000 split between the County. Town and School would be a benefit. Supervisor Scheffler - I'm hard pressed, other than the $21.000, to see the benefit for the Town. When I look at this and Abundant Solar is from Canada, their investors are in New York and Connecticut, they're buying their equipment from Germany, and there are no jobs. The electricity is cheaper here now than what you can provide in the Village, so there's only half the Town you can help. We get cards in the mail every day that we can get 1000 off our bill for doing nothing. So. I want to see a benefit somehow. Mr. Spitzer - Well I've told you the benefits. You may not agree that the benefits are worthwhile, for example the trade off for the trees. But the benefit is plain cash. That's 21 - grand in your taxpayers' pockets, which means something to your taxpayers. Number 2, it does contribute to reducing the carbon footprint within the County. Number 3, they're going to spend 10 -million dollars on construction, mostly in the State, and local people are going to do some of that construction and they're going to spend their money locally, including at retail places. The IDA has facts on where they figure out those benefits for every construction project. Number 4, you're going to add value to the school with my taxes or an educational contribution agreement. The question for you, as leaders of the community, is when you have a project that has virtually no cost other than things like cutting trees or if they want to put in a wetland. Councilperson Klumpp - The cost is fairness. Mr. Spitzer - Then tell us to go away. If the Board feels that solar can't be built here unless they pay frill taxes, just say that. That's your call. And if that's bow you feel, just say I don't want solar because you can't pay. Councilperson Klumpp - I'm not saying that I don't want solar. That's very misleading. Several things that you say are misleading because that isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that I want a fair playing field. I'm not saying I don't want solar. Councilperson Gamel - Heather. I'd like to thank you for coming today because I think the number that you presented was different than Rachel has presented along the way. Ms. McDaniel - $4.300 per megawatt. Councilperson Gamel - Said that this was the first time that Heather had been here to explain the PILOT and that Rachel had been asked for that back in Januar,. Supervisor Scheffler - Asked bow much the total taxes currently are on the property and was told approximately $1.800. Supervisor Scheffler said that would need to be subtracted because they would no longer pay that. Mr. Spitzer - No, we'd still have to pay land taxes, why wouldn't we pay that? Ms. McDaniel - Any additional property tax. So, the $1.800 could very well be paid if there is just land there with no improvement. The PILOT would govern the improvement, not the land. Supervisor Scheffler - Can you at some point tell us how big this solar farm is going to be? Is it going to be 1 megawatt or 5 or 8? Town Board Allnutes Page 13 November 13, 3019 Mr. Spitzer - You said it was between 3 and 8? That's the first time I've beard any number other than 5. Councilperson Gamel - The map we got went up to 8 megawatts. Mr. Spitzer - That's a very fair question. I'll find out for you. I can only tell you what I beard is 5. Supervisor Scheffler - They occasionally throw in a disqualifier that they don't know exactly what it's going to be so someone who was here said that we need to nun our numbers on what they actually build. No one is guaranteeing if it is going to be 5 or 1. Mr. Spitzer - There's generally a rile for this type of solar that it can't go past 5 or they have to subdivide it. Councilperson Gamel - And they talked about that. They also talked about how it was based on the capacity that the grid could bold. There was a little research by someone here that said the maximum on the grid we have right not could be 3. So, now we're talking $21.000 just went down by two-fifths. Mr. Spitzer - That's true. Just to be clear, it's not based on how much it does produce but on what it could produce. It's always based on the capacity. Supervisor Scheffler - Right. But what are they going to build. Is it going to be 1 or 5 or 3. That's what the $21.000 is based on. If it's 1, we could build a house on it and make just as much. _y lot of people spoke at once. Mr. Benson said that be thought the map was for 5 but it could go up to as much as 9. Councilperson Gamel thought that if the Board approved 5 and it went up, that the Town would lose money. Mr. Spitzer said no, and they wouldn't be able to subdivide without the Town's approval. Mr. Spitzer - Would you want a host agreement that says the amount will be N and if you build less than N, we still get N? Councilperson Gamel - Absolutely. There's no question. Mr. Spitzer - Yeah, that's a possibility. So, these questions should be answered by the interconnection study. Councilperson Gamel - We don't have that information. Mr. Spitzer - So. I've sent a text to Rachel saying, size of project? Supervisor Scheffler - What typically is a host agreement that you would go for up front? Mr. Spitzer - We would figure out the present value of the payment to the Town over the 20 years and we write a check for that amount. So, in Williamson, the total PILOT up there was around $50.000. I wasn't involved in that, but generally what you do is figure out the present value of the solar payments and write a check for it. _y lot of communities like that because if they have to deal with the tax cap, they only have to deal with it once. Or let's say you're buying a new snowplow and you're going to finance it, so if you have 50 -grand it would reduce the amount that you're borrowing. It all depends on what works best for you. Supervisor Scheffler - So you're not going to do a PILOT and a host agreement? Mr. Spitzer - It's possible. (He talked about how some agreements were handled in other towns and other counties and also talked about wind farms, but was not using the microphone.) Town Board Allnutes Page Il November 13, 3019 Councilperson Young asked what the checklist would be to move the application forward. Councilperson Gamel said that hearing back from the Town's engineer was the first step. Clerk Scheffler read excerpts from the October minutes when the Board had declared their intent to be lead agency for SEQR. She said that she had sent notices to all involved agencies on October 10 and had heard back from a couple who stated that they had not problem with it and the others had not replied. She had also referred the application to Tompkins County Planning, but had not received a reply from them. It was determined that the 30 day time limit to reply was up. RESOLUTION 419-104 - DECLARE THE TOWN OF GROTON LEAD AGENCY FOR SEQR REVIEW MOVED by Councilperson Klumpp, seconded by Councilperson Gamel RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby declares itself Lead Agency for State Environmental Quality Review purposes relative to an application for a Special Permit for a Solar _dray submitted by Abundant Solar Power, Inc. Ayes - Clark, Young, Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Councilperson Klumpp said that be would contact the engineer. Clerk Scheffler will let the Board know as soon as she bears back from County Planning. She said that they will need to set a public bearing at some point. Mr. Spitzer said be would try to get answers to the Board's questions. Councilperson Young said that the environmental factors needed to be looked at. Supervisor Scheffler said be doesn't see any jobs. Mr. Spitzer said that generally what be sees is that the workers building the project spend in the community as the benefit, but they do look for locals to do the work also. Ms. McDaniel - At the IDA we do require that all of our projects submit monthly reports of where every single laborer on the job is from. What I've seen with the smaller solar projects is that they've hired local funs. Some of the bigger ones, they have brought a bigger crew in and filled in with some of the locals and they are getting maybe 600 o local labor which is a lot more than you would see on a 50 -million dollar building in the City of Ithaca. Supervisor Scheffler - These are questions and answers we just haven't had before. Councilperson Klumpp - On the application it is Abundant Energy Groton, LLC. Why is that? Mr. Spitzer - When you do these projects, you usually have a developer that develops it and builds it and sells it to a portfolio owner. That way by having what they call a "special purpose vehicle." an LLC that owns just this particular project. If you need to transfer it, it's all under the same name, and what you're doing is you are selling your membership interest in the LLC as opposed to the asset itself. So, it's done for corporate purposes in terns of putting each separate project in a separate LLC and then if you decide to sell it, you basically don't have to come back to the Town and say, guess what, we are now XYZ Company, because it's the same company. It's just easier corporate -wise. If any other questions come up, please don't hesitate to contact me. The Board thanked Mr. Spitzer and Ms. McDaniel for coming Town Board Allnutes Page 15 November 13, 3019 Supervisor Scheffler had been asked a question about training for the Planning Board. It had been asked whether certain training classes could be used to satisfy the training requirements for the Planning Board. _after some discussion it was the consensus of the Board that the particular training classes mentioned did not qualify as Planning Board training. Privilege of the Floor: Dan Carey, Agricultural Advisory Committee Chair - Said that the agricultural communitN feels that solar arrays should not be placed on tillable land. They do however recognize that solar arrays may be of some benefit to the community. He thought that the Town should work with the ID_A. He also said that he had not heard the landowner brought up in any of the discussions. Mr. Carey feels that the landowner is being held hostage by the Town not moving forward with the application and that he might lose his sale because of this. Councilperson Gamel - Said that he thought the solar company should be buying the land up front. When the oil companies came through and leased everyone's land, they paid up front and then didn't end up doing anything. These companies are not in it for the environment: they are in it for the money in their pocket. The Town Board has to look out for the entire Town. Shame on them for not paying for the land up front. They have the money and we don't. While the Board all feels bad for the landowner, it's the energy eompanN's fault for not buying the land. Mr. Carey said that if they got the $1.800 for the land taxes, plus the PILOT, that should be considered. Mr. Gamel said that be had beard more tonight than previouslN Lillyan McCormick, Abby Corcoran, and Averie Roberts introduced themselves and said that they had attended the Board meeting as part of their Government Class. There being no further business. Councilperson Gamel moved to adjourn, seconded by Councilperson Clark, at 9:16pm. Unanimous. _-April L. Seheffler, RMC Town Clerk