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Home My WebLink AboutPB Minutes 2005-06-21FILE DATE TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD TUESDAY, JUNE 21, 2005 The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular session on Tuesday, June 21, 20051 in Town Hall, 215 North Tioga Street, Ithaca, New York, at 7:00 p.m. PRESENT Fred Wilcox, Chairperson; Eva Hoffmann, Board Member; George Conneman, Board Member; Tracy Mitrano, Board Member; Larry Thayer, Board Member; Rod Howe, Board Member; Kevin Talty, Board Member; Jonathan Kanter, Director of Planning; John Barney, Attorney for the Town; Creig Hebdon, Assistant Director of Engineering; Christine Balestra, Planner. EXCUSED Daniel Walker, Director of Engineering; Susan Ritter, Assistant Director of Planning; Mike Smith, Environmental Planner. OTHERS Bill Paladino, EDC; Tom Fox, EDC; Corey Stewart, EDC; Scott and Sue Hamilton, 201 Christopher Ln; John Murray, Ashley Management; Maria Andrews, Ashley Management; Adam and Kim Scholl, Newfield; Jayme Asselin, 668 Coddington Rd; Joan Jurkowich, Tompkins County Planning Department; James Hamilton, Conservation Board. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Wilcox called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. Chairperson. Wilcox read the Fire Exit Regulations to those assembled, as required by the New York State Department of State, Office of Fire Prevention and Control. Chairperson. Wilcox announces that there are no public hearing scheduled. PERSONS TO BE HEARD Chairperson Wilcox opens this segment of the meeting at 7:06 p.m., and asks if any members of the public wished to speak. With no one wishing to speak, Chairperson Wilcox closes this segment of the meeting at 7:07 p.m. SKETCH PLAN Consideration of a Sketch Plan review for the proposed 2 -lot subdivision located between 668 and 674 Coddington Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 49 -1 -17.2, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal includes subdividing the +/= 4.172 - acre parcel into two lots for future residences. William Goodhew, Owners Adam & Kim Scholl, Applicant. Chairperson Wilcox opens this segment of the meeting at 7:07 p.m. PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED Adam Scholl, 78 Bull Hill, Newfield The reason my wife and I are asking for this subdivision is because we would like to build a smaller home closer to the road and when we become more financially stable we would like to build a bigger home on the back of the lot. Please understand that we are not going to have the answers to all the questions until we invest money for the proposed subdivision. However, we do know that we will need a variance for a number, of areas. One of those is the flag lot. We would require variance for road frontage width and the width at the setback line. We are hoping that that won't be as much of an issue due to the Town of Ithaca approving such a variance on both the left and right side of the proposed property. Also due to Tompkins County Health Department requiring 100 feet diameter circle for the septic system, we would most likely need variances for the front lots for the width at setback, the front side and rear yard setback. The purpose of meeting today would be to see if the Town would be open to such suggestions and if the Town was open to such suggestions then we would purchase the land and provide proposed subdivision, which would include the grading plan, the erosion, sedimentation plan, the proposed septic system_ location and the survey for the 30,000 square feet for the front lot. We have not purchased the lot yet due to. seeing if the Town of Ithaca is open to this before we purchase, it. Chairperson Wilcox — Anything else? Mr. Scholl — Not at this time. Chairperson Wilcox — Questions, comments, concerns, other than it is an odd shaped lot? Board Member Thayer — Really odd. Chairperson Wilcox — Really odd and I think we are responsible for creating this lot or allowing this lot to be created. I believe in subdividing off the parcels that surround it that we have created this lot. Chris, comments other than what was in your memo? Ms. Balestra — No. Board Member Hoffmann — I don't have such great problems about the width at the road frontage or even at the setback as I have with the fact that there needs to be a septic field and it seems the conditions aren't very good for putting in a septic field there. That troubles me. And the other thing that troubles me is we got some comments from the Town Engineer about the construction of the driveway, the continuation of it to the second lot and how it has to... how there has to be a lot of excavation to create it because its very steep there and it would be a very long driveway, too. I'm really more concerned about those things than about a few odd feet missing here and there, though in this case its quite a few feet, actually. 2 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 217 2005 APPROVED Board Member Conneman — I am going to agree with Eva. Do we have any history of how this was created? It seems to me that... Attorney Barney — It was over the objections of the Town Attorney, that much I remember. -.- -Board Member Conneman — I was going to say that I wasn't on the Planning Board. Attorney Barney — I raised a question about it at the time. I remember this. Mr. Kanter — You may have been, George. This is not that long ago. Attorney Barney — Yeah, it was only a couple of years ago. Ms. Balestra — 2003. Board Member Conneman — Oh, is that right? Board Member Hoffmann — At the time that we last saw this property, I don't think the lot was created, but we did these little adjustments of swapping a small triangle of land for another. I think that was all we did at that time. Ms. Balestra — That was part of it. Chairperson Wilcox — I. also don't think that anyone thought at the time that they would ever want to subdivide this lot again and maybe we would have been put into the resolution that the lot should. not be subdivided again. Lets try to go through the issues. Does anybody have an issue with the creation of a flag lot because this is clearly is a flag lot? Board Member Hoffmann — No. I don't really have a problem with that. I think in some ways it is better to have one road entering a big road like Coddington instead of having two. So if you can do this sort of arrangement where one lot enters the driveway from the side and shares the last bit of driveway, I think that is a good solution, but.it is not wide enough here that is part of the problem. Chairperson Wilcox — Now, the other question becomes the various side yard, the potential for side yard variances given where the structures would be proposed to be built given the need for ... there is no sewer available at all or not economically ... so unless you want to spend a lot of money, including a pump... Mr. Kanter — Well, it's not even close enough to tie in with the pump at this point. There is water, but there is no sewer. Chairperson Wilcox — We have the maps that you provided us one area that is labeled front house site and that would be the initial ... a rough idea.of where the initial structure 3 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED would be proposed to be built if this subdivision was proposed to be built if this subdivision were approved. The septic system would be behind it, I assume. Mr. Scholl - That is correct. Chairperson Wilcox - I shouldn't say behind it. That's inappropriate. This would be to the westessentially- - — - - — -- - - - Board Member Thayer - Are you looking at the back house site? Which one are you looking at? Chairperson Wilcox - No. I'm looking at the one up here right now. Board Member Thayer - The front house? Okay. Chairperson Wilcox - Yeah. That would be the first one built Mr. Hebdon - The idea would be for you to live in the front house, sell it off and then move to the back house? Mr: Scholl - No, sir. Most likely we would rent the front house. Mr. Hebdon - So it would be a separate residence for somebody. Mr. Scholl - That is correct. Chairperson Wilcox - Comments with regard to the side yard variances and other lot variances relative to placement of structures within the setbacks? Eva has expressed her opinion and George has expressed his. Board Member Conneman - If you were asking to build the back house I would say that there are some things here, but I would let them go. But, I don't know about the front house. Chairperson Wilcox - Yeah, the front house... Board Member Thayer - Yeah, that's the tight one. Chairperson Wilcox - And just for the house itself being where it is proposed to be located would be extremely close to ... clearly the flag pole of the flag lot. I'm not sure if there is sufficient side yard to the lots to the, I'll call that to the north. Creig, any other comments that you want to offer from the engineering department with regard to the topography. Mr. Hebdon - Just like what Dan said, there was concerns about the continued road edge in the back. There would need to be switchbacks that are going to take up further 0 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED back lot area. The placement of the first house is going to have to be done carefully to leave enough room to do what they need to do and how that will affect the livability of that lot. Board Member Hoffmann — I think somewhere in the description of this or maybe it was the letter from the applicants, there was mention of the possibility of having access to. the back lot from the land off Troy Road. Is that right? Mr. Scholl — That is correct, depending on subdivision plans. It may be a possibility. Mr. Kanter — That is very unsure at this point. Chairperson Wilcox — That is the subdivision sketch plan that we saw 6 -8 weeks ago maybe. Mr. Kanter — Correct. Board Member Hoffmann — That might otherwise be a good solution than one wouldn't have to have this long road and it would be easier to place the front house on that site so there would just need to be a shorter driveway for that house and one wouldn't have to build a road up the steep slope, but I guess since that land hasn't been subdivided and no roads are built it wouldn't work for you now. Mr. Kanter — Actually, we have had discussions with Mr. Ruben on his follow up to his subdivision and he is talking about phasing it in away that the first lots would be just fronting on Troy Road and who knows when anything else might ever happen. Chairperson Wilcox — The question before us is would this Planning Board look favorably upon this subdivision as proposed. Eva? Board Member Hoffmann — No because there are too many problems, I think, as proposed. Board Member Conneman — I would say the same thing. Chairperson Wilcox — Larry? Board Member Thayer — You guys really like the lot that much? Mr. Scholl — We do. We like it. It's close to town and it's by'the nature center. Board Member Thayer — I mean I couldn't vote for it either with that problem with the septic system unless we saw a good layout that was approved, but I don't see how it is going to work. Mr. Scholl — Is your main concern the septic system? 9 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED Board Member Thayer — I think so. I think the variances could probably be worked out, but the septic, like Eva said, is a big problem. Mr. Scholl — Meaning that you would be possibly open for a variance for the front lots with that setback front, side and rear? Board Member Thayer — It looks like a possibility, but it's just a good shape at all. Mr. Scholl — Would the next step then be if we were to continue to be interested would be to get a percolation test and have Tompkins County Health Department come out and say if it would be possible to put in a septic system on the front lot? Board Member Thayer — I guess that would be probably one of the steps, right, Jonathan? Chairperson Wilcox — Well, before we get there, as this is laid out right now we have no, no... Board Member Howe— I'm with Larry. There is a gray area. If there was a way to work it out I would consider it but there are lots of problems. Chairperson Wilcox — Kevin? Board Member Talty — Ditto. Chairperson Wilcox — I'm in that camp for what its worth as well. It's a horribly shaped lot to begin with. It could support ... it will easily support a house. Board Member Thayer — In the back. Chairperson Wilcox — In the back. Absolutely. Board Member Thayer — If you could drop the plans for the front house and go to the back it would be much better. Chairperson Wilcox — If I squint real hard, maybe it could support .a house in the front. I am not so sure, but certainly not without having to put in the pole because that just makes it even worse. It magnifies the existing issues with that piece of land there. Mr. Hebdon — If they were going to come back, from the Engineering Department standpoint, I would want to see a lot more information about what they were going to do with the road in the future and how that is going to affect the way the subdivision line is. Chairperson Wilcox — That is another issue that should be considered. I must admit when I had a conversation with Mike Smith usually the Friday, a week and a half before R PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED the meeting when I get a preliminary version of the agenda, and I call up Mike and we talk about it. I said Mike why are we having a sketch plan for a two -lot subdivision. It was my initial reaction when I saw it and he said wait until you see the map. Board Member Thayer - It's got to be a first. -C -hair- -person - Wilcox - - - -- Clearly - - the - purpose here is to not have you expend money unnecessarily. That is clearly why we are here. The Planning Department has given you advice of lets see what the Planning Board says about this. I think the Planning Board unanimously, for those who were here at the time, have said that this has some problems that the board could not, would not be in favor of granting it. You of course, could get. a perk test, work with the County Health Department and see if it could be located in the front and after spending that money, formally providing application then you run the risk of not getting the approval and then what do you do. The other thing clearly that has been brought up both in what Creig said, Jon mentioned it and in the memo that we have from Christine is that this is going to be an expensive back lot to develop. On many simple two -lot subdivisions, the landowner comes in, we look at the subdivision, we approve it, ' and they build a house eventually at some point. We may need estimates of cut and fill here potentially, engineering drawings of how that access road to the back parcel is going to be put in. Certainly, storm water runoff and how that might be mitigated during construction of the road. It is a tough problem. Personal recommendation is to build a house in the back and... Mr. Kanter - Is there any possibility of building a smaller starting house in the back and then adding onto it? A lot of people do that these days. Mr. Scholl - It is certainly possible, but we were looking at having the income from a rental house. Chairperson Wilcox - You can save money by building a smaller house back there, but the price of getting access back there is what is going to be steep. Attorney Barney - Larry has indicated that if you work out the septic problems you might be more amenable to considering it. I think it would probably be useful for these folks to hear whether that is the way the majority of the board feels or whether the other problems are such that even if the septic system could be worked out, you would still be reluctant to approve it. Chairperson Wilcox - Good point. Mr. Kanter - We did hear the engineering concern of the driveway as well. So I think you would probably want to add that into the statement that John just made. Board Member Hoffmann - Actually, I have a question about the septic system. I have never lived with one myself, but I understand that you might build one, but it might fail and you might have to expand it or replace it with a new one. On this lot, which I think I 7 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED read somewhere it was quite wet in parts, you are likely to have to build a big one, I think and then if you have to replace that there may not be enough room on the lot to do that.. . Attorney Barney — They won't usually give you a permit, the Health Department will not give a permit now unless there is sufficient room to build a replacement system. Mr. Scholl - My understanding is that we would have to, spend extra money for the percolation because it is rocky soil that we would have to invest in having sand brought in, in order for it to percolate properly. Dan, when we came out, walked the land and thought that there was sufficient amount of flat area in the front of the area to where that would be possible to do. Mr. Kanter — Do you want to address John's question and then I had another question to add to that? Board Member Thayer — So we have the driveway and the septic problem. Chairperson Wilcox — Right. You made the comment that if the septic system could be located on a different part of the property, which would allow the house ... the proposed location of the house to be moved that you might be able to look favorably upon the application. Anybody else? Board Member Howe — I'm with you, as well. Chairperson Wilcox — Kevin? Board Member Talty — I'm in line with... Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah. Its kind of a weak we could, I don't mean to put words in people's mouths, but I'm getting the feeling that it is kind of like we could look favorably if the information we got back was... Board Member Thayer— Favorable. Chairperson Wilcox - Yeah. I was trying to quantify that. Certainly much more favorable that what we are looking at now. I'm hard pressed to think that that is going to be likely. Now, you won't know for sure until you spend money. Mr. Scholl — Understood. Board Member Thayer — So you could build an apartment in the back and attach the house later. Chairperson Wilcox — So, I didn't hear from you on that. 8 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED Board Member Hoffmann — I still have a concern about the road. Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah. We will get to that in a. second. So, certainly the Planning Board would be willing to consider or reconsider should you be able to come back with a plan that is significantly different. Now the road and specifically the construction of the road and what would be involved with it is the concern. My personal feeling is that we - know - the- r-oad_or.we know-that a_road_can_be_ built,.. but all it takes is-money-and its not only the money to build the road, its money to deal with potential water runoff while. the road is being constructed. There is the length of the road, which I haven't even calculated yet, but its certainly... it's a driveway. I shouldn't call it a road. Mr. Hebdon — There is going to be expensive. There is the second septic system to go in and the water service that is going to be a long water service. Chairperson Wilcox — Anybody know what they get per trench foot nowadays? Mr. Hebdon — It depends on how hungry your contractors are. Chairperson Wilcox — Your right and having lived on South Hill, we also know there is an awful lot of rock. Sometimes you get through that clay pretty quickly to the rock underneath. Mr:, Hebdon — It could be $20 per foot. Chairperson Wilcox — And that would be if it was relatively easy digging. If it is rock and their progress is very slow, it could be a lot more. In my opinion, the road can be done, its just going to cost a lot of money. I'm sorry. The driveway. Mr. Scholl — I am aware of the procedure to figure out about the septic system, but I am not so sure what the Planning Board is looking for and guaranteeing that the road would be acceptable. Would I have to have an engineer come out? How does that process work? Chairperson Wilcox — I think I would want to know where that driveway is going to go. I would love to know whether cut and fill could be balanced because if you are going to have to remove fill from the site or bring fill in possibly depending up on how its constructed or where it is constructed that is something that we would want to know. Mr. Hebdon — I think to answer his question though, yeah, you are probably going to need to hire an engineer to come out and take a look at the topography and design something that is going to go back there of time bouncing it back between us and you are looking for, but you are going to back and be told, no we still don't like it. you decide to proceed. Otherwise I think you are just spending a lot you. I realize that this is not quite the answer have to spend money and may have to come So there are going to be risks on your part if N PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED Chairperson Wilcox — But I think it's doable. Attorney- Barney — What is the -width of the road that you show on your map there? Mr. Scholl — 50 feet. --Chairperson-Wilcox---And there is -no - guarantee that- any driveway, at least right now, could stay within that 50 foot width right now, not until someone gets out there and... Mr. Hebdon — Dan said it depends on... (not audible)... Mr. Scholl — Do you have a suggestion of who we can hire to find that out? Mr. Hebdon — We don't make suggestions under engineers. Attorney Barney here and they to the parcels that shows a 52 foot you scale those, here. You can take a look in the phone book — You say it is 50 feet, but there are a couple ok to be about twice the width of that road. F are being conveyed there on the northwest dimension and on the opposite side of it is a they look to be about double what the size of Mr. Kanter.— It looks like it may be. more like 20 feet or so. Ms. Balestra - This survey map has also been reduced. of 50 foot dimensions on )r example, if you look at corner of parcel... but it 51 foot dimension and if the road is showing over Attorney Barney — If it is 51 feet, it doesn't matter what the scale is. 51 feet is 51 feet, so it says to me when you plot a 50 foot road on there, you may find that you don't have much room left for a house at all. Chairperson Wilcox — We have another problem, John, too. I'm going to look at this dimension right here, which seems to indicate that that is 25, if that is 25 feet wide then the proposed road is only about 25 feet wide. Mr. Scholl = So it's not drawn to scale? Chairperson Wilcox — It's not drawn to scale. Attorney Barney — And when you draw it to scale... Chairperson Wilcox — That makes the front house site more difficult. Mr. Scholl — Would we need 50 feet? The only reason I put 50 feet was due to the other flag lots in the area being 50 feet. 10 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED Attorney Barney — I don't know that you would have to have 50 feet, if you could get by with less, but you have to have enough to cut a road base that a vehicle could get up and in particular an emergency vehicle because that is what we are looking for is if a fire engine can get to the property. Mr. Scholl — I contacted the fire department and I believe they said 20 feet. Chairperson Wilcox — But in order to create a solid 20 foot base, how much room do you need on either side? You need another 10 feet on either side that you need to own or control in some way so that you can build that road. So quickly you are up to roughly 40 feet right there if not more. So we are generally okay with... nobody is dead -set against putting a road in there if they can show that they can build it appropriately and make sure that they are able to mitigate all of our concerns with regard to environmental issues. You had one more, Jon. Mr. Kanter — Yeah, the question is the lot line between parcel A, which is the subject parcel and parcel B, which was part of the Goodhew subdivision, which has a house on it. Is there any possibility of getting the now owner of parcel B to agree to in a sense shift their lot line and sell you some of that parcel to get more width near where the house on the front part of the lot would be? It's showing, I can't quite make it out, but it looks like 54 some -odd feet for a side yard setback between the house and that side lot line. I forget what the side yard setback is in that zone, but it is certainly less than 54 feet. So it is possible that that lot line, if the lot owner of parcel B were agreeable, might be, able to get a little additional width around the house that would help the road alignment that would help the septic system. So I guess the question is whether that maybe a possibility. Again, Mr. Goodhew doesn't control that property any more. From what I understand that was conveyed to his wife. Chairperson Wilcox — If the northern lot line of parcel B could run much more parallel with the southern lot line of parcel B, for example, you would gain quite a bit in that bottleneck if you will Mr. Kanter — Which also maybe leads to a comment, maybe this is the time, Chris. We did hear from Mr. Goodhew on this. Ms. Balestra — Mr. Goodhew called and left a message saying he couldn't make it to the meeting, but said that if anyone asks what his opinion is of the proposed subdivision, please tell them that I have not offered Scholls any encouragement on their proposal. In his opinion, it didn't seem to fit the criteria of the Town in the subdivision process, but they wanted to go through the process anyway. Board Member Hoffmann — The other thing that I noticed on this sketch is that you have drawn both of the proposed houses quite large, probably much larger than you really intend them to be especially when compared to the house and the garage and the barn on the neighborhood lots. So maybe they look to us bigger than maybe they should look. 11 Board Member Thayer — That's a good point. Board Member Conneman — I don't know if Adam and Engineer, don't just get feasibility, figure out what it that can be very costly. PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED Kim know this, but if you go to an going to cost you first because Mr. Scholl — The other proposal that I have is I know that the Town of Ithaca was interested in using this plot to connect a trail system. Was anyone aware of that? That is what Dan was telling me. Mr. Kanter — That is not something that we have discussed with the Planning Board, but it is something that we have been looking at. Mr. Scholl — I was thinking that another option would be to give rights of passage through that lot and possible the Town of Ithaca could help out with the building of the road so that it could be a trail system. Mr. Kanter — I don't know that we have that kind of interest in it. Chairperson Wilcox — A lot of that would depend on Mr. Rubin. Mr. Kanter — Again, that is so unknown at this point. Chairperson Wilcox — Any other comments, ladies and gentlemen? Anything else you want from us? Mr. Scholl — That's good. Thank you very much. Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you for coming. Chairperson Wilcox closes this segment of the meeting at 7:37 p.m. SKETCH PLAN Consideration of a Sketch Plan review for the proposed redevelopment of the Judd Falls Plaza properties located at 322 =350 Pine Tree Road and 930 and 946 Mitchell Street, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 62A=3.2, 62- 1 -2.2, and 62A A , Community Commercial Zone. The proposal includes removing the existing plaza to construct approximately 45,464 square feet of retail, office and other related commercial uses in several new buildings, including a +/- 14,564 square foot Rite Aid Pharmacy store in the first phase of development. The project will also include new stormwater facilities, parking, landscaping, and lighting. Susan Hamilton, Owners Ellicott Development Company for 1093 Group, LLC, Applicant. Chairperson Wilcox opens this segment of the meeting at 7:40 p.m. if�� PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED Board Member Talty — I am going to have to excuse myself from the proceedings due to the relationship that I have with both the current owners as well as the applicants themselves..._ . Board Member Talty sits in the audience. Bill Paladino, Ellicott Development Company We are preferred developers for Rite Aid pharmacy. We develop for them throughout New York State and Pennsylvania and do the majority of their sites throughout New York State and Pennsylvania, not all of them. That is what has brought us here to Ithaca. We looked at this years ago for a replacement site for the existing store currently situated in the East Hill Plaza. Its an older and in their minds an outdated store. They would like to improve the visibility, accessibility and just the overall general appearance of the store for the future. The feel Ithaca, here, it's a growing area. They feel this area here with the store is a growing area. They feel that they will be a staple in this community for along time if they are able to improve the location of the existing store and that is what has brought us to this site here. Looking at the area, Judd Falls Plaza is really up there as we feel as the last site that is somewhat undeveloped at this time. In looking for a site for Rite Aid I we realized that talking with the Hamiltons initially that we would have to purchase the whole site in order to accomplish what we need accomplish for Rite Aid. Therefore, as we present to you tonight, you will see we are going to complete the project in phases. Rite Aid being our initial thrust to get done, in a position that is acceptable to them and suitable to them and handles all the requirements that they look for in a new location as a first phase of this development. As a first phase also we will be looking to do some general improvements to the overall site, just improvements in appearance and to give us something to work with in the future for other potential tenants. The first phase of the development will involve the demolition of the Ides bowling alley; the existing house on Mitchell Street and another existing house will also be demolished. The site lines, at the site we are purchasing, starts here along the property line for the Courtside Fitness center and encompass all of lot one and back up to this point here in the back of the bank and then around to the point and sort of this odd shaped property line on this side. That is what we are purchasing. Currently this is a separate tax parcel that the Hamiltons do ground lease and has been in effect for years for HSBC bank. That will remain as it is currently situated. . In the first phase what we would like to do, as I stated before, is satisfy the requirements of Rite Aid pharmacy being where this current bowling alley is and other retail building and building a new building for the Rite Aid as situate on the other plan we show there. The existing tenants have all agreed to lease termination agreements. A few of them are looking for other locations in the area. We have given them adequate time and will continue to give them adequate time to find other locations. A few of the tenants, though, just assume to move onto other things in their lives and that is what they wish to do. So when in the redevelopment, in the first phase, Rite Aid will be the 13 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED only tenant located on site here. What I should have done is a phase I and phase II plan. The initial phase will be developing Rite Aid in the front, but the remainder of the site as you see here with existing houses will be taken down and cleared and it will be graded somewhat properly, not per se for a new development, but just to look aesthetically pleasing. We will grade it, plant grass, maybe some landscaping to give it a good appearance in the future. The existing pavement that is here in the middle will be repaired and put back in decent condition for its appearance. The lot behind will remain as is. It is currently brush and trees and is not that bad of an appearance currently. As for the first phase, like I said, we look to do the development for the Rite Aid pharmacy. As for the other phases, we simply showed what we showed there to show the Planning Department, at their request, what possibly could be done with the property. Over the years the Hamiltons have tried to redevelop the property. They have had many different conceptual plans that they have worked on. We don't necessarily know what the demand is right now for other development in this area, whether it be retail as we have shown here, office, residential. We just really haven't explored it that much at this point in time nor do we intend to in the foreseeable future. It's the first phase that we would like to complete the Rite Aid development and then put for lease signs up and see what comes along before we actually get a plan that we want to proceed with in the future. Here is something conceptual. We very well come back with a retail oriented plan such as this if we feel the demand is there or we might come back with something totally different. In any event, it will come back into your hands obviously to get your final approval on the site. I may be using, since there are a lot of issues here, using Mr. Kanter's memorandum here. as sort of a guideline. I will go. through the different portions of the plan and how we arrived at them. Like I said the site is a little over 6 acres here. Rite Aid will generally be using about an acre and a half to two acres of the site up in the front portion along Pine Tree Road. They will be taking a majority of the frontage along Pine Tree Road between the bank and the current fitness center. In designing the plan, we are a tenant oriented development company. We normally don't buy property on spec. We usually have a Rite Aid development or some other type of retail or office development before we proceed in hand. We currently do have a lease with Rite Aid Corporation and they sort of dictated how the site will be developed to their requirements. Like I. said, they are our primary tenant and they are the tenant that we are intending to accommodate at this point in time as well as we can on this site. If Rite Aid for some reason find the project unacceptable or Rite Aid doesn't go here, we would not be proceeding with the site, and the purchase of this site and the redevelopment of the parcel. Keeping that in mind and taking into account how we arrived at our site plan, it was based on their criteria of what they would like to see in one of these new locations for their new large stores. The new stores are different from what you currently see down on Route 13. The stores are about 4,000 square feet larger now with a number of 14 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED new amenities inside the stores and the look of the store has obviously greatly changed from what they had before. Board Member Hoffmann - Could you repeat what you just said about the look of the store as compared to the one on Route 13? —Mr -P- aladino - - -T -hey- have - changed - -a- number of components as to how the store is designed being the height, the entrances, the drive - through and just the overall appearance of the store has changed from what they had previously. Board Member Hoffmann - And something about the size, too? Mr. Paladino - The size and square footage. This store here would be 14,564 square feet. That store down there is a little over 11,000 square feet. So their new prototypical store is larger than what initially they were doing five or six years ago. Along Pine Tree in developing the site we tried to maintain the same setback from the street as the other existing tenants that are currently located there, being situate between the fitness center and HSBC bank so as not to create this sort of void. We tried to maintain the same setback line as them with parking in front and on the sides. Currently, with HSBC, the parking is somewhat shared at this point. The access is shared with HSBC. HSBC in this development has called us and they are, even if this does not go through, HSBC is planning on facade improvements and improve the overall general appearance of their lot, which was pleasing for us to hear based upon what we are planning proposing to do here. With regard to the Rite Aid plan, it is a new 14,564 square foot building that we are proposing to construct with 67 parking spaces around the front and side of the building. There will be spaces remaining when we complete our initial redevelopment of the back being put in better... making it look more aesthetically pleasing. There will be more parking available in the rear of the store to accommodate any overflow. The pharmacy business in general does not use... (not audible) ... it is more of a continued business throughout the portion of the day. There's not really any one time and they get a great hit and all those spaces will be used at once. It is more of a perception of easy access and convenience, having so many parking spaces. As for access and circulation on the lot, we will be maintaining this agreement with HSBC and sharing this access -way here. The access -way will be improved with new curbing and will be defined better than it is currently defined. The curb cut along Mitchell will stay primarily in the same place that it is now after our initial comments with Mr. Kanter and his development team there. We had initially proposed a curb cut just directly south of the curb cut for HSBC here. There is access I guess through that in any event we decided that it wouldn't be that much of a hindrance to keep the access as far back as we could on the property.. So you can see here is the existing entranceway it is staying primarily right where it is right now. That would be our primary access off of Mitchell Road. Along Pine Tree Road here we are showing a curb cut here on our 15 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 2112005 APPROVED property. Courtside, here, also has a curb cut that is shown. They have access through an agreement through Mitchell Road through to the rear of their property also. And through the front -here, we have talked with Mr. Murray, who is currently here, regarding sharing a curb cut along that road so we would be very well amenable to getting rid of this access point. Either maintaining this access point or as Mr. Murray suggested, moving it down closer to the property line if that would be acceptable. We are showing. - three - access- points here. —We -are- willing - -to reduce- it- -to -two access points One is shared with HSBC and the other being shared with Courtside to the west of our side area. There is also an agreement with regard to parking for Courtside to utilize those spaces along that side of their building for their business as well as I'm sure some of the parking as left in the rear they'll utilize a portion of that. We are also working with Mr. Murray to redevelop sort of the front of his parcel along with ours and HSBCs to give it a nice cohesive look along the front and make it all more aesthetically pleasing that it currently is right now. Regarding sidewalks, as I said, we will probably do a plan for our next meeting that just shows what we are interested in doing in the phase I completely, which will better define where this sidewalk will remain. We are willing to provide the pedestrian access through the property, probably continue it where it is right now to some point . and then obviously, bring it over to the store. This right now, obviously, does not have these existing structures when we complete the Rite Aid. It will be mainly pavement and grass in this area so we have to better define that, when we just look at doing just a phase I plan for the site. The traffic flow, as far as our studies show, the area right now is not a very good level of service presently. We don't feel that phase I of this development will be creating a worse situation than what exists. If anything we might possibly be creating a better situation by ridding ourselves of the bowling alley and the other retail that is there and replacing it with the pharmacy, which is already situate at that intersection in the East Hill Plaza. For the future phases, there very well might need to be some mitigating measures to the area, but as I said, phase II of this project could happen anywhere from a year or two or five or six years or even longer down the road. We don't have any development prospects currently nor have any focus as to what is going to go there in the future. As for stormwater management, detention, we will detain our stormwater on site and develop a system that is acceptable to the Town. Our engineers have looked at the situation here. They don't feel that we will at all be creating a worse situation with what we are doing here. As with all our sites we'll develop some type of storm detention on site whether it be some type of pond or underground retention, which we have done in other areas. We are amenable to doing either kind of detention, whatever our engineers work out with the Town as being the best means of doing that we will proceed with. IL PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 2112005 APPROVED As for the current look of the Rite Aid, as I said, we feel the new prototypical look they have right now, they put a lot of time into the store. There is currently only. one other store_ anywhere constructed such as this store. The brick on it is a nice amenity. _The glass that they have on there... its... we feel the overall general look is a nice look in the area and whatever we did in the rear of the site we would continue that look into the rear to make it one cohesive development at the end of the day. Obviously not knowing. -what- is -there yet; we - can't..:we don't -have renderings or anything -to -show you, but it will be in the same character as what we develop in front. As for landscaping and lighting, it will be designed lighting, photometric studies will be done of the site and adequate lighting will be provided on . site. Landscaping, even in our total development, we are showing almost 30% landscaping and green space on the site, which we feel is more than adequate for a site of this size. Board Member Hoffmann — Excuse me. Could you again repeat that last? How much green space did you say? Mr. Paladino — Right now this plan including both phases as shown is roughly 28 %. Just phase I of this plan will be significantly more than that shown on and we will be actually adding more green space to the.front and be adding a ton of more green space on the side. As I said before, the green space in the rear will all be staying in phase I of this project so it will be significantly more, I mean probably around 40% in the beginning. That is pretty much a general outline of everything that we are proposing here and looking to do. If anyone has any questions I will be more than willing to entertain them. Chairperson Wilcox — I'll get the ball rolling. I'll just pick... and I don't want to go through my set of issues here, I will just pick one in particular that is very important to me. That is the walkway. If I may before we get going, what is the legal status of that walkway through the property? Does the Town have some sort of agreement with the current owner? Mr. Kanter — We think so. Mr. Paladino = It is a very vague agreement. Chairperson Wilcox — Is there a written agreement? Mr. Paladino — There is some written, but it is very vague. Chairperson Wilcox — To me it is very important, crucial, that that walkway be maintained, not necessarily in that position, but that the access to the residents on Mitchell Street. 17 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 2112005 APPROVED Mr. Paladino — I guess our... maybe the board could give us more of an understanding as to what you are looking for in our redesign of it. We have looked at a number of different things, but without having the actual input from the board itself and Jon has given us some input as to what you would like to see, but we are open to ideas on it. We would like to maintain it, too. We want to be consumer friendly and pedestrian friendly with our center also. Whether we continue something along this road and come up in between the bank and then over, whether we continue down here around, I'm not sure. What different criteria would you like to see? How would you like to see it done? Chairperson Wilcox — Pedestrian safety is the key. I think number one and that includes not only access to your property, but also access to the Plaza across the street. I will tell you right now that the current means of coming up Mitchell Street on the walkway, crossing the Ides property, going along side the building then walking across the parking lot is not the best. Then if you will there is I guess I will call it a pedestrian curb cut to get across the street to the sidewalk that is in front of the P &C. We need some way. Mr. Paladino - We are going to work with HSBC on redeveloping on this portion of it. It might make sense if this is continued down here, maybe up through here somewhere and over and then they continue on a sidewalk. I agree, right now it is not a good situation and it is hard for us in the future, based on what we are working with, to not have the same issues you have now. If we have to talk to the adjacent property owners to try and come up with a better solution, we are willing to do that. Chairperson Wilcox — That provides better access to your facility, as I said, also better access for access to the plaza across the street as well. That's my main concern. I have others, but any other comments regarding the walkway. Board Member Hoffmann — Yes. That is an important one to me, too. Board Member Thayer — Absolutely. Board Member Hoffmann — I was wondering was there some Town input about the placement of the crosswalk across Pine Tree Road there from the bowling lane property over to East Hill Plaza? Mr. Kanter — I don't know what kind of input there was. It is a County road and so the County would have had to approve the location of it. When you get to the front parking area of the current bowling site, it just kind of ... everything disappears and you are sort of pointed toward the crosswalk from the sidewalk on the building. I think it was chosen, I'm not sure what the process was for choosing it, partly because of the location of the entrance to P &C, East Hill Plaza and that was seen as probably the most direct and maybe the safest place for a crossing, but I think that should all probably be revisited as well when we look at this. PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED Mr. Paladino — We would prefer if it just went normal course of most streets down up and stayed along the streets and crossed at the normal intersections and crosswalks. Chairperson Wilcox — If you can do it well and provide normal safety for the people who are using it or the pedestrians with it then I don't have a problem. - Board- Member- - Hoffmann --Well, -I -do-have-a-p rob lem with- that - because what happens here is that usually people will take the shortest route and if you don't provide a safe short route then they will make it across whatever there is and it won't be safe.. This is the same problem that we have with car traffic through the gas station up at East Hill Plaza. People are not supposed to drive through there, but they do even if it is very dangerous and even if there are signs saying that they shouldn't do it and there is a speed bump and all of that because it is the shortest route. So I don't think it is a good idea to put the sidewalk along Mitchell Street and Pine Tree Road and then for people to go back up and cross over into East Hill Plaza or even worse, to have to cross at that intersection and through the gas station. Chairperson Wilcox — No and I don't think that is being suggested. You mentioned that you would bring it up to the intersection... Mr. Paladino — Yeah. Maybe we would either cut through... somewhere where you were cutting through less parking area. People at the end of the day are going to walk wherever they want to walk no matter what path you give them.. To really have us create something that is a perfect path through that is not very fair to the property owner himself for the redevelopment of his plan, but I think we can come up with something between us and the adjacent property owners to make it more useable for people and safe, obviously. Mr. Kanter — Eva, it could be a combination of the two because we would also be looking for a safe, convenient access for pedestrians within the parking lot. Parking at Rite Aid and then getting safely to the building, especially as the future phases develop. So there maybe opportunities to do some internal sidewalks as well as a perimeter one, but that all has to be looked at. Board Member Hoffmann — Right, but that means paying for two sets of sidewalks and maybe financially that is not so good if one could come up with a good solution of just creating one that would serve people and give them access to both what is within this plaza and then give them a safe way to get across to the other plaza. I almost think it might not be a good idea to move the crossing across Pine Tree Road at this point because people have now gotten used to it, both drivers, who look out for the pedestrians and the pedestrians who are using it. If one were to move it, one. would almost have to put up special signs or have stop signs there or have a traffic.light or something. Chairperson Wilcox — I am not suggesting that they move, I hate the terminology I am going to use, where the walkway terminates on Pine Tree Road. 19 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED Mr. Paladino — You would just like to see them get here to here in a safer manner. Chairperson Wilcox — Yeah, you are right because we have an existing sidewalk across the street on the side of the P &C, which leads you out to the road on the east side and would be appropriate to have a sidewalk that terminates directly across the street on the west _side- of_P_ine_T_ree_Road._I would_love_to_ keep _that_cr_osswalk_acr_oss.the road away from the intersection. That is a big, wide intersection. Board Member Hoffmann — And I don't think it was intended for pedestrians crossing there. that is why there were walkways built in areas off that crossing. Chairperson Wilcox Any other comments with regard to the walkway? Eva, do you want to move on to another? Or whoever has another concern? Board Member Conneman — I have a number of issues. Let me ask you. How big is the Rite Aid in East Hill Plaza? Mr. Paladino — I think it is roughly 6,000 square feet. Board Member Conneman — I don't think any Rite Aid buildings are beautiful, as you imply. The one downtown is certainly isn't among my favorite buildings and neither is Eckerd's or CVS. But this one, in my opinion, beats all things. I mean if you look at this, you have more signs up there than anything. Mr. Hamilton in his bowling alley does not put up that he rents shoes and he's got snacks and everything else. It says bowling alley in little letters. Is it possible to have Rite Aid have less signs on the building? It seems to me like this ought to be what I call a neighborhood shopping center. I don't know if you have ever been Westchester County where they do a beautiful job of blending everything in and if there is a Rite Aid, everyone knows it is there. It seems to me that we had a model for this across the street, which is Burger King. Burger King has almost no signs. Mr. Paladino — I am not sure ... those renderings show a typical store. We have not even looked at the signage issue yet and I doubt what they have there would even be within your signage requirements. I'm sure we're well above that. In all honesty we haven't gotten into that issue yet. Board Member Conneman — It seems to me... Mr. Paladino — I would assume they would be amenable to decreasing the amount of signage on that store. I don't see that being a very large issue with that. Board Member Conneman — Because I don't think you need it. Secondly, I would make it just much more attractive without all these signs on it. Burger King actually went back to the national people and said we don't need those signs like that. This is a neighborhood and we have less signs there than we have probably on any Burger King PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED in the world. They don't have a red light around the top. So that is one issue. It seems to me that this is, I won't use the four - letter word that got quoted on in the Ithaca Times one time, but this will qualify in capital letters in the same way. So it seems to me that that may be, I don't know whether Rite Aid would agree to sort of smaller signs, but I think that they would want to in a neighborhood like this, which is one of my concerns. The second thing that I am concerned about is I think this board would like to have - -some -sort of- a- plan -on- the - rest -of- -the- shopping- center-._For_example,_that_is a. parking lot in back of Rite Aid that looks pretty dull to me. It looks like a lot of space. There. are ways to design a parking lot so that they are attractive and they don't look ... you sort of decrease the sight of cars and everything else. I think that also the other issue is that if you have some sort of a general plan, and that is up to, I don't know what development you are in, but it you have some sort of a general plan, you won't come back to us and want to put in a whole bunch of hotdog stands there. You'll want to put McDonald's and so on and so, etc. That would not be a very attractive neighborhood shopping center, which is what I think the Town would like and I think the public would like. Mr. Paladino — As far as the shopping center concept, I don't know if there is demand up here for a shopping center per se and that is what we're... and in all honesty we haven't really delved into very much at this point. From what we have seen and heard, are we going to attract a lot of retail to .come to this site, I've heard that we probably won't be able to attract them. Ithaca is a town where you already have the majority of the retail out on Route 13. Most of those people are already there; they are not going to do a second location up here. So to answer your question, in redeveloping the rest of this site we really have no idea what will go back there. It may not even be retail. There may be even just one or two other retail components to it and maybe in the back becomes some type of office tenant. Board Member Conneman So it becomes more important in my mind to design the Rite Aid site so that it is in fact very attractive in case that becomes the only thing that is there. Otherwise it will stick out like a big box. Chairperson Wilcox — A small, big box. Board Member Conneman — No, no, no. A bigger box than you will find any else. Mr. Kanter You really can't define big box until you get to at least 25,000, but 50,000 is more like it. Board Member Conneman — Relative to the developments on East Hill, that is a...14,000 is big. Scott Hamilton, 201 Christopher Lane This building is a third of the size of the current structure there. It will be. a dramatic cosmetic improvement to the community. The building that is currently there is almost 60 years old. It is completely decayed and dilapidated. It requires major, major renewal. 21 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED Board Member Conneman - I looked at the site this afternoon. . Mr. Hamilton - I think it would be a dramatic improvement for the community and we have lived there for a lot of years. -Mr— Paladino - - -In- the -- redevelopment of -the- site,-the site -is . -sort _ of._two - fold. Rite Aid wants to come here. That is the main tenant we have for this. We also know that we are going to have to develop something in the future in the back to absorb the cost of the property and the cost of all the improvements of the property. But to plan that now is...I have no problem coming back to you with everything in behind where we are looking to propose this Rite Aid later on because that is how much up in the air it is at this point. I don't want to state to you that I'm going to do retail and then find myself in a bind later unable to do retail. I-would rather get-done the first phase of -this,- satisfy the requirements of our tenant right now and then move on later and then explore it and really come back to you with a nice development for the rest of it, whatever that may be. And it very well may be a little more piecemeal again if we find a couple of good uses for the property that we feel would fit in. But at that time...I mean the current design of the building is back there. The current design of the lot is all up for discussion once again. If anything is putting me in the bind by not having a planned development for the whole piece at this point in time its sort of restricting, maybe the uses and what I do with the property in the future and my ability to recapture our finances on the property, but as I said in the beginning, we are preferred developers for Rite Aid. That is the main client we are intent on satisfying at this point in time. The rest of it is just something that as it comes it comes, but it will be done in a very good manner in the future. As far as the look of the Rite Aid building and the look of the structures are going to be on this site, this is what they proposed. If there are modifications or things like that, they are open to discussing it. As far as what the rest of the buildings will look like on the site and whether they blend in with what we do with the Rite Aid or whether there is some other type of business that demands some other look to it and we will bring it to you. If it is acceptable it is, if not we can stay with the same thing that we did with Rite Aid or do something that is maybe different or maybe something else in the area will have been developed in the area before we complete the rest of this development that will blend in better with the community at that time. I just can't stress enough that we do want to do some phases, not permanently trying to push a Rite Aid down your throat to do that, but just because we really have no idea what we are going to do with the rest of this property and I guess try and forecast what we are going to do and define it right now is just, we just have no idea. I think we would be coming back later. It would sort of be a waste of time, I'm sure, on a number of the issues because this .is purely conceptual at this point. Chairperson Wilcox - I agree that we need to see that conceptual part of the other phases. We will want to see that. We may concentrate on phase I, but we will want to see something that indicates what could happen on phase II or phase III or phase IV 22 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED and then what you are planning to do with phase I is consistent with potential development later on down the road. Mr. Paladino — Correct, I mean come back to you and see all that or now? That's where it becomes tough for me. Mr. Kanter — The environmental review I think we need to talk about because a lot of it gets into that as well. Chairperson Wilcox — The issue that I have with environmental review is not to segment this into so many pieces that we wind up doing an environmental review for each phase and we look at each phase individually and therefore, I happen to agree with Jon Kanter that we need to, from an environmental review point, look at the entire parcel with the three parcels. Therefore, it makes sense to look at the drainage issues, traffic circulation issues on the site. Obviously lighting, but that would only be relative to the first phase. But I think that is the most appropriate thing to do as we proceed with the environmental review. Then we will concentrate or you will concentrate on phase I, but continue to show potentially what phase II would be or phase III. That also helps you because you don't want to preclude potential options down the road. Mr. Paladino — Exactly, but we are going to, assuming Rite Aid becomes acceptable to you after our continued discussions, we are going to try to explore ideas with this property as to what we can possibly do with it and we want the infrastructure of what we build there to be supportive of what we should do in the future. We can understand that. I . Board Member Hoffmann —.1 have a couple of follow up questions to this. If you are only concerned about having Rite Aid developed initially, why then do you want to raise the whole site, including the two existing buildings that are residential properties? Second question is what about the current smaller tenants in the bowling alley building? Mr. Paladino — As far as the existing tenants there, they have all agreed to lease terminations. We didn't force anything on them. They were willing to agree to relocate on their own. We are willing to accommodate them in leaving also. Pine Tree Road is the main road there. This is not by any means a cheap site. Therefore, Rite Aid being the main tenant here and the anchor tenant, for them to be agreeable to absorb in their rent the majority of the site costs and that, they want to be where the frontage is. The buildings themselves, the bowling alley and the other structures are not in the best of shape. A few of those tenants will relocate in the surrounding area. They are exploring options with different brokers. We will give them the time to do and the definitely will have the money to do it and relocate and set up their businesses again. A few of them will not be relocating. They will probably just move on to other things. They are content with the run their businesses have had in the current locations. In the current houses themselves, we have been through them. They don't really serve any current use. They are such in bad shape; their character has been compromised. They are no 23 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED longer what they were designed. to be. Mr. Hamilton has some pictures of the inside of some of them. Board Member Hoffmann — We have some of them. So we will be looking at that, too. pictures, too, and some historic evaluations -Mr.-Paladino We- don't -mind- looking at that - further. We are comfortable with that, but we would just assume for the cost of the property and being a commercial... its residential sitting on commercial financially feasible in any event. would be better off just building residential. property. To go redo those properties would not be Like I said the structures are so deteriorated that it you something new if you did want to do some type of Board Member Conneman — Point of information. Who owns the house on the corner? Mr. Paladino — Cornell University. Board Member Conneman — That's what I thought. Chairperson Wilcox — The house at 946 Mitchell Street, is that vacant right now? Mr. Hamilton —.We have tenants in there right now. Board Member Hoffmann — I was just puzzled if you don't have any plans for the rest of the parcel why you were planning to raise all of it including trees and so on except for the very western most part? Mr. Paladino — Because of the cost of maintaining those structures and the liability of maintaining those structures and the presentation of them. We would like to put the site in a condition when people drive by and see it, it is going to be inviting to them to come and maybe locate their business there. Right now when you look at the property, you can't really define what is there, what is available, and its tough for some: people to have vision as to what can happen on a property. We feel if we improve the look of it and give it a much better aesthetic look, it would be more attractive to people and it will help us in defining what we do back there in the future. In its present state, I think it is too difficult for people to foresee what can be done there. Board Member Hoffmann — So you are saying that, for instance, in raising the building that is called the old school house that you would take down all the trees on that piece of land, too? Mr. Paladino — We would leave the trees, but the brush and ... we would clear the property. We would not necessarily make it wide -open space. We would clear it and make it more appealing to look at. 24 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED Chairperson Wilcox — Did you walk that property at 946? It's an eyesore. There is a tarp on the roof. Board Member Hoffmann — You don't see very much of it in the summer because there is a lot of greenery around there. --- Mr.- P-aladino- -We- will - try-to- maintain- the -- trees -on - the -p rope rty,_even_in_ the next phase if possible. Chairperson Wilcox — I didn't walk the property at 930 Mitchell Street, which is the one way off the road because I didn't want to walk in someone's yard while they were there. Mr. Hamilton — It is totally uninhabitable. The pipes froze this winter. I have pictures ... the mildew is so bad you can't enter the premises. The roof is completely gone. Plus I was up there the day before yesterday and some kids have apparently broke in. Who knows whether they are using it as a hangout. We don't know. So it's really a liability for... Chairperson Wilcox — Eva's point is well taken, though, that if the structure needs to come down, which is fine in my opinion and if you want to beautify the entire three parcels that is fine, but the point about trying to retain those trees that are appropriate to retain, in my opinion or our opinion, so that you provide some appropriate screening would be wonderful. Board Member Hoffmann — I think there is enough visibility into the property from the driveway off Mitchell Street and from the driveways all along Pine Tree Road and even from the intersection of Pine Tree Road and Mitchell Street. If I can move on to another question that I had. If the intent is to have the entrances that are opposite the entrance into the P &C off Pine Tree Road be the main entrance, why is the drive -in part located in the northern end of the building and the other end of the building because that would seem to me to make people want to drive in through that northern driveway. Mr. Paladino — We would like as many entrances as possible. We want people to get in an out of this site as easily as possible. The location of this is dictated by the inter layout of the. store. In our relocation, it is in the same spot that is back where the pharmacy is, is in the rear of the store, so that is dictated where the drive - through is located. The front door they always want oriented towards the intersection. Board Member Hoffmann — That can't be changed? Mr. Paladino — No. That can't be changed. Board Member Hoffmann — Flipped like a mirror image or something? Mr. Paladino — No. 25 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED Mr. Kanter — I did raise the point about there could be some potential vehicle conflicts at that driveway entrance and we really need to look at that and make sure there are no conflicts or are minimized to the extent possible because there could be cars entering from Pine Tree Road going into the drive - through lane and at the same time vehicles trying to exit above that going out to Pine Tree Road and you have possible crisscrossing. Mr. Paladino — We are going to close this and shift it to here and move this down a little bit. Mr. Kanter — That might help. That might actually help. Mr. Paladino — I would hope it would alleviate that concern. Chairperson Wilcox — Jon did make the point about circulation on the property. Mr. Paladino — This will help tremendously, I think, just shifting that curb cut. Chairperson Wilcox — I would appreciate it if you could in some way when you come back provide detail to me as to how that solves the problem rather than just pointing. I see the potential conflicts both from the one or potentially two curb cuts, which exist on Pine Tree Road, the one shared with the bank and then possibly the one to the north, but also you have the rear entrance as well. You will have cars coming in off Mitchell Street and trying to make their way to the drive - through as well and they are going to come around the drive - through and they are going to be facing the entrance on the wrong side. Mr. Paladino — There will be signage as to where everyone is supposed to go, whether they follow it or not is a different story in most cases. Board Member Mitrano — won't repeat them. One You said 67 spaces and more spaces than what perception of openness actually needed or what ic. Many of the issues that I had noted have been addressed so I that hasn't is the parking designated for this preferred site. you used the word perception as if the reality is that that is is actually needed, but that Rite Aid prefers some type of or something. What is the percentage of spaces that are the number? Mr. Paladino — I don't have any studies that show that, but we own about 75 locations and about 25 -30% of the parking lot is used throughout the course of the day. After work probably about 50 -60% is used. With pharmacies, they are sort of conveniences in a way. They are there to provide prescriptions in a convenient way. It's the whole idea behind the drive - throughs, its what makes it easier for people to drop -off and pick up prescriptions. The same with parking. They want people to feel... a lot of their clientele is older and don't like to walk long ways so the amount of parking that they have around their doors is vitally important to them. When people ... when you drive into a lot and you see a ton of cars and the spaces full, you are not as_ inept to stay there C9 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 2112005 APPROVED and maybe shop at that location. So when people look at a parking lot there they will see a lot of spaces typically and will therefore be more inept to use the store. Board Member Mitrano — Will it create a greater area devoted to parking than ordinarily one would expect to see at least in this area of the Town of Ithaca? - -Mr.- Paladino - -No- -We're - not - looking --I- mean -if -this -was -any other business -the same amount of parking spaces would be required under code for it. I think actually we are saying in the first phase there will still be some ansulary parking down in the rear of the building that currently exists now. If you take ... from here forward we actually don't have enough parking for the size store we have. So like I said we are comfortable with fewer spaces. You will never see all the spaces utilized at one time. Chairperson Wilcox — That means I would hate to see so many parking spaces there in the first place. Mr. Kanter — The code is interesting because for the Rite Aid phase I portion our code requires 73 spaces and only 67 are proposed, yet for the future spaces our code only requires 227 total and there are 287 total shown for a full build out. There is, obviously, that back central parking area has a lot of possibility, flexibility for changing that, but the actual spaces for the Rite Aid is pretty close. The Planning Board has the authority to reduce by 20% the amount of parking. That would put it just about in the range that is proposed. So that is pretty much on target. Then there is the issue of parking in the required front yard that we haven't talked about yet. Board Member Mitrano — I guess the only other question, I just wanted to be sure that I understand completely. Mr. Hamilton, you are not selling the property. This would be a lease? Mr. Hamilton — We are. Board Member Mitrano — You are selling the property. Mr. Hamilton - We have a purchase agreement contingent on getting the necessary approvals. Board Member Mitrano — I see. So what you said then is that Rite Aid doesn't usually purchase land but in this case they were? I just want to be sure that I understood what you were saying. Mr. Paladino — No. I am a developer, Ellicott Development Company. I also am going to be the new property owner of the site and I will lease the site to Rite Aid pharmacy. The 1093 group is a wholly owned company of Ellicott Development. It is a holding company for property. 27 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED Chairperson Wilcox - The comment may have had to do with having to purchase all three parcels rather than just the amount of land necessary to construct the Rite Aid. I think that might be ... maybe...you did say that. Mr. Paladino - We are purchasing all three, but I can say in Mr. Hamilton's defense that I wouldn't want to split up my properties either. You can obviously get the highest and - best - value - keeping - -them all- together. He- certainly -would not sell _me -the front and maintain the back because it is less desirable property, obviously.. Board Member Mitrano - It wasn't a criticism. I was just confused about who was buying what then who was leasing to whom. I am done. Chairperson Wilcox - Any other questions? Board Member Thayer - It is difficult for us to look at the whole picture when you are showing four separate buildings and you say that they are not even going to be there. It is a little misleading for us. Mr. Paladino - I agree. Board Member Thayer - Then you are showing us a picture of the new building and you say that it's not going to be like this. Mr. Paladino - Oh, no. That's what we are proposing. What I am saying is... Board Member Thayer - Well the signage isn't going to like this. Mr. Paladino - The signage will most likely not be like this. That is what we are going to ask for in signage, obviously... Board Member Thayer - You're not going to get that. Chairperson Wilcox - Well said. Mr. Paladino - Everything we have shown you is what we are proposing, except for the buildings in the rear. It was I more put there to show meeting most of the setbacks and the requirements. What, I guess, the amount of footage that .could possibly be built on the rear of the property is what we were looking to show on that. We have had some interest from restaurants and have really been the only thing to express an interest, which I don't think the area would be objectionable to. Chairperson Wilcox - Comments? Questions? Board Member Howe - Probably somewhat in line with what George was talking about. As we think about further development, thinking about a neighborhood shopping center feel to it and maybe that means that it is not a parking lot in the center. Maybe the PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 2112005 APPROVED buildings will be grouped closer together and parking around it so that people aren't always having to cross a parking lot to go from one retail to another. So I hope that we can be imaginative, as this gets further developed to really think about the feel that we are creating. I was somewhat intrigued by that old schoolhouse and the history that is there, but it sounds like its too far gone to do anything with, it. Mr. Kanter — I think what we can do through the SEQR review is try to get more documentation of what historic significance either of those structures may have had. Provide the documentation, additional photographs perhaps. We would probably be looking to the State Historic Preservation Office for assistance in making a determination, but ultimately going through the SEAR does. not mean you can't tear the buildings down, but we do have to make..a determination regarding their significance. Board Member Mitrano — How does one get a plaque? Chairperson Wilcox — One finds money first. For those in the audience who are not aware, the two houses that are on the properties, one is estimated to have been built in 1845 and one is estimated to have been built in 1860. Again, the structures may have had significance, they may still have significance, but there is also the potential that the land surrounding them might provide some interesting historic artifacts as well. That is also a possibility. A couple quick ones if I may, gentlemen. Does someone... has someone done a site location analysis for this with regard to justifying to Rite Aid that the appropriate demographics and or drive time and all that sort of stuff. Mr. Paladino — The existing business proves that. Chairperson Wilcox — Have you done one for this proposed site? Mr. Paladino — Correct. Chairperson Wilcox — If you have done one, make sure you submit it. Mr. Paladino — I am not sure what you are asking for. Chairperson Wilcox — If you have done some sort of site location analysis for what you are proposing tonight, if you have done a study, a feasibility study, a market study, whatever you want to call it where you have gone to Rite Aid and said here is why you should move your store here because there are these many cars that drive by or there are these many people with this sort of income. that live within a 3 -mile ring of this site. If you have done anything like that, please provide a copy so that it is available. One, it is interesting to me. And two, I may have to mention, not a conflict, but if you have used a company that I work. I don't know if you have. I work for Claritas by the way, which provides demographic data and is often used by... Mr. Kanter — So if you haven't done one... 29 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 217 2005 APPROVED Chairperson Wilcox - I simply need to acknowledge that. You made the comment that you don't need that much parking. Good. We will see what we can do to reduce the - amount of parking and 20% is a starting point. We don't like asphalt. We talked about the walkway. We talked about drainage to some extent. We need to talk about the parking in the front yard. -Mr. Hebdon---T- here -is -a- large- parking -area- that -is- outside of phase -I, I would like to know what is going to happen to that. Is'that going to stay parking? Mr. Paladino — We are going to improve that someone and put it back in reasonable repair. Mr. Hebdon — So it will be overflow parking for Rite Aid and... Mr. Paladino — HSBC uses a portion of that parking and Courtside uses a portion of the parking in the back and they ... a significant portion of that will be improved just because that whole row in back of Courtside is a mess. Chairperson Wilcox — Mr. Hamilton, do you and or your wife or relatives own all the way up to the Courtside building? Mr. Hamilton — Six inches from the wall. Chairperson Wilcox — So those unmarked spaces that could exist to the south side of Courtside would be mostly on land that you presently own or control. Mr. Hamilton — We have had an agreement with the neighbors since the inception to use shared parking and work as neighbors. Chairperson Wilcox — There are not many cars parked there now. Its not very convenient entrance or exit to the Courtside facility. Ms. Balestra — The west side is also where there is a significant amount of parking that exists. Maybe that needs to be included ... (not audible)... Mr. Kanter — One thing that I really tried to point out in the memo is that we really will need a phasing plan and a demolition plan, in a sense, so that we know exactly what is going to happen in conjunction with phase I development and when other things are going to happen. Particularly important for things like the remaining parking area, infrastructure development, how the stormwater system is going to be built to handle the whole site. All that kind of thing, but this is kind of early to be thinking about that. Chairperson Wilcox — Parking in the front yard, per se. Anybody? It is there today in a sense. Mr. Kanter — But is that a good thing? 30 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED Chairperson Wilcox — I'm looking over here. It is up to them. Board Member Conneman — You could have some screening around it, which according to that diagram, you .have a lot more screening than is here now. Mr.- Paladino -- -Currently -it -is right up to- the - street. We- are -about 20- something feet back. We have actually placed our building back. This is going to be a requirement for Rite Aid to have this amount of parking there primarily because HSBC right now utilizes a great portion of what Scott had. They don't have many spaces whatsoever, HSBC. That is going to be a concern of theirs. You can see in here, here is the actual. Ides building that goes somewhat like that. So part of it is behind where the current Ides is. No portion of it protrudes out further where Ides is right now. We are creating much more of a green space buffer between the road and our parking. And we are, this doesn't show that much landscaping, but we be placing shrubbery and bushes and things of that nature, which will screen the parking from the street. Right here when you come in this lot this is sort of a mess to. This will all be landscaped and more adequately defined than it is currently. Chairperson Wilcox — Scott, you or your family will maintain control of the land under the bank? Mr. Hamilton — We will maintain ownership of the bank property, which is on a long -term land lease with the bank. Chairperson Wilcox — There maybe the potential or potential need for legal agreements between you and the new owner of your .property and potentially, between Tom Murray and... Mr. Paladino — We are going to update all of those agreements. Chairperson Wilcox — I spoke too much. Board Member Conneman — I would encourage you to come up with as little signage as you can get. _ Board Member Mitrano - I guess so long as we are still talking, it is such a preliminary stage and maybe a little pie in the sky, the question of if you have done a feasibility study for Rite Aid and then you indicated a shopping mail center is not feasible? Mr. Paladino — No. I just know that Mr. Hamilton over the years has tried to do different developments and hasn't really attracted much attention. I know...I think there was a Tops proposal at one time to come in here to compete with the existing supermarket, but even talking with them they didn't have much interest from other retailers to come along with the Tops, who would have been just . competing. against P &C. Mainly because as I said before the majority of your retail is already established here down on 31 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED Route 13 and another location in Ithaca really isn't feasible for a number of the different retailers. That is not to say that in the future it wouldn't be, but presently that is what we -are finding._As. for the feasibility study about Rite Aid, we really didn't do a feasibility study of the area. This is area is a little different being there is so much limited area for new commercial development. The other corners you pretty much can't look at the other corners to redevelop. This site, though, to place a Rite Aid here, they know what -- their - existing _ store_ does_ and -_in_ other_ similar -_situations_given_ similar_ demographics they can project what the increase in business would be and that is primarily what their internal feasibility was to propose to complete this location. Board Member Mitrano - As a developer, how much of a percentage of your work is done with Rite Aid? Mr. Paladino - Probably 50 %, Board Member Mitrano - I guess because my pie in the sky idea is that I am not sure that ... I mean you are thinking, big, big places, Barnes and Nobles and CVS and all the big ones. What I am thinking is something a little muted, which isn't to count Rite Aid out, but to put it in the context as something that could accommodate.the dry cleaners and the computer kind of stores, and the restaurants and the ice cream shop. If I had my way that is the kind of operation that I would like to see there, including Rite Aid and with all best intentions and wishes for their business, but something that would integrate a lot more and could be done with that area and could also answer some of the questions that you have heard us ask about... its hard to tell what is going to come when you are already going to designate one thing with a very determined, no signage or not, it is going to be what it is right there and its going to set the tone. It may inhibit if not prohibit, the kind of development that would be more homogenous and uniform in catering to a variety of other businesses. So it would be great if with the other 50% of your development acumen, if maybe you would think about something that's a little bit more open, blended and suitable for the unique area given the unique nature of the Ithaca community. Board Member Hoffmann - I absolutely agree with what you said. Board Member Conneman - Cornell started out across the street to build a nice little country shopping center. They screwed up in a lot of different ways. I think you have a great opportunity to do the same kind of thing here, which would be very attractive. That's why I said if you seen the one in Westchester, that would be the model... Mr. Paladino - We don't have many big retail developments. We are not like what you see the Bendersons doing down there.., Our main other side of the business is office buildings and residential complexes. Most of our retail centers are small mom and pop type centers in inner city, urban neighborhoods. Board Member Thayer - Great. 32 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED Board Member Conneman - Great. That's what we want. Board Member Hoffmann - I think if you want to serve the neighborhood so that people don't have to drive through Ithaca down to Route 13 to do everything, then you would. look into trying to get some smaller business on the same line that Tracy mentioned. -Mr. - P-aladino -What--we do-in-the-rear-there,-we very_well_ may look_to_do_ that. The problem is you need the bigger type retailers to justify the costs of the property and.the redevelopment. The smaller people typically won't pay the rents necessary to open a new location and redevelop a site. You see them typically going into the older centers. If we could find a few other national -type retailers to absorb the majority of the costs then it will be a reality for us to go look to put ... find space for the smaller type mom and pop shops to go in. Board Member Hoffmann - Just make sure you don't bring in any more of what we have already. Mr. Paladino - No. We don't look to cannibalize what's there. Board Member Hoffmann - I have another request. I would like for you to bring in for us to see some alternative designs for Rite Aid stores, which perhaps would be more pleasing to us in architecture. Mr. Paladino - Can I ask you if there is something in the area that is along the lines of what you are thinking of? Board Member Hoffmann - I can only give you the example of the Burger King at East Hill Plaza, which came in as a standard Burger King to us. We were able to talk to the developer and get what is there now. So you can go and look at that as an example... Board Member Conneman - It's the only one in the world that has flowers and trees. Board Member Hoffmann - Its not just the building, it's the landscaping too and the lack of big, colored and lit signs and things like that. Mr. Paladino - Okay. Chairperson Wilcox - Anything else over here? Staff, comments? Mr. Kanter - One quick question. We were talking about competition with other businesses and I noticed on the sign, which may or may not reflect what's going on in the food mart. Could you just describe briefly what food mart means in this type of a building? Mr. Paladino - It will be no more food than what they have in there. Obviously with a bigger store they're be a little more food than what they have in their store right now, but 33 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 2.1, 2005 APPROVED mainly just convenience items, bread, milk. The same type of staples that they have right now. It's not going to become a grocery store. Mr. Kanter — Are these typically open 24 hours a day? Mr. Paladino — Some are. I don't think' this one would be. I don't know. if they would -have -a 24- hour - one - Ithaca. I don't know -what the current- one -is -down the street. Mr. Kanter — CVS is open 24 hours, but I don't know about the Rite Aid. Mr. Paladino — Usually the customers dictate how long they are open. In an area such as this they typically won't come in and say it's a 24 -hour store. Chairperson Wilcox — We may not look favorably on a request. to be a 24 -hour store. Are you all set, Jon? Is there anybody else as part of your team who wishes to make a statement? Mr. Paladino — No. I think we are all seta Chairperson Wilcox — Then if you are all set, why don't you take a seat and I will give the public a chance to speak, which I always do. Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a public hearing this evening, but nonetheless this board has always allowed the public to speak at sketch plan reviews so we can get input as soon as we can. Therefore 1 will give any members who are in the audience this evening a chance to address the Planning Board. Keep it brief, but we want to hear what you have to say. Then remind me that we have a letter from one of our County Legislators who has asked that I read it into the record and I will do that later. James Hamilton, Conservation Board I am on the Ithaca Conservation Board and I got the agenda here and I came because in the Conservation Board we are worried about the trees on the site. As Eva mentioned, the Burger King kept some trees and there is a stand. of Conifers on the Burger King property that is probably about the same age as a stand on 946. 1 don't see any problem with raising the fairly decrepit homes there, but there are some beautiful trees on the property as well as junk trees. If phase I could be developed with not just with green space that is seeded lawn, but green space that preserves the fine trees that were planted long ago and have many years left in them, the Conservation Board would be real happy to have you planners be sure what can be conserved is conserved. I have heard from his presentation that he would like to keep some good trees. Right in here is a beautiful stand of trees that would make for this property what that stand of Conifers by Burger King does. It redeems it a bit. I think back in here on the other house, I don't think we are going to miss when that is raised. There are some fine trees there. When you just bulldoze everything and then plant bushes and lawn and. say that is green space that is not really green. It is landscaped space. So if you could keep what is there and worth keeping, the Planning Board would make the Conservation Board really happy. 34 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 211 2005 APPROVED Chairperson Wilcox — I assume that the Conservation Board at some point will review these plans and be able to provide more comment. Mr. J. Hamilton — I just wanted him to know that the greener he can be, the happier we will be. Board Member Hoffmann — Could I make a comment about trees, too? I meant to say it earlier.. May I? Chairperson Wilcox — Absolutely. Board Member Hoffmann — In that strip to the east of the proposed building, which will be made wider and where there will be plantings, that is the perfect place for putting trees, too, because it is the side of Pine Tree Road where there aren't any overhead lines so the trees will have a chance to grow into their. beautiful natural shape without having to be cut and mutilated at some point later on. And trees very often, I don't mean evergreens that block the view all the way down, but hardwood trees once they have grown up a little bit, you can see through the trunks what building is behind, but you have the beautiful crowns to look at and provide shade for the cars that are parked. So I would encourage you to include trees in the plantings over the whole lot, but especially there. Mr. Kanter -Chris was reminding me that there may be some utility lines in there that might be a restraint. If the whole site is being redeveloped, that is something to look at and see how that fits in. Again, that issue with parking in the front yard may come into play because if there is a utility line here and you were able to move the strip back another ten feet and plant trees that certainly would be a worthwhile thing to do. Chairperson Wilcox — Is there anybody else who wishes to address the Planning Board this evening? Than I think you very much. Do you have the information you need from us? You have a lot of work to do. Any last comments over here? I think we are all set. I want to give you this, though, if I may. I did get an email from Martha Robertson. She's a County legislator representing Dryden. (See Attachment #1). Board Member Hoffmann — Her main concern, just for the other people in the audience, is that the elderly people that live in the Ellis Hollow Apartments and there are also some in the Summerhill Apartments, though there are mainly younger people living there, but the elderly would find it much harder to get to the drug store if the drug store is across Pine Tree Road than where it is currently where they can walk somewhat more safely to the drugstore and not have to cross a busy street. Chairperson Wilcox — All set? Thank you, all. Chairperson Wilcox closes this segment of the meeting at 8:55 p.m. 35 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 217 2005 APPROVED AGENDA ITEM Update Regarding the Cayuga Lake Waterfront Plan — Joan Jurkowich, Tompkins County Planning Department Chairperson Wilcox opens this segment of the meeting at 8:55 p.m. and .welcomes Kevin back to the board. Joan Jurkowich, Tompkins County Planning Department Thank you. Thank you for making time on your agenda forme. I think most of you are familiar somewhat with the history of the waterfront plan, so I am not going to go into a lot of detail, but just to give you a quick, quick overview. There was an original waterfront plan done in 1997, as you may recall, as a joint effort of the Town of Ithaca, City of Ithaca, Tompkins County, the Chamber of Commerce and Cornell University. One of the recommendations of that plan was to go ahead and prepare what is called a local waterfront revitalization program. The thinking of that time was that the primary purpose for recommending that was to make projects within the waterfront area eligible for state funding. There is a pretty decent sized pot of money for waterfront project and the plan in 1997 recommended following the state guidelines to prepare the LWRP as they call it to make communities on the waterfront eligible for those funds. Another sort of argument for having a waterfront plan is that once it is adopted by the local municipalities and the state accepts it, any state actions within the waterfront area would have to be consistent with that plan. So it gives localities a little check on state actions that might otherwise not be friendly on the waterfront. lam imagining the day that the DOT wants to relocate their maintenance facility back on the waterfront. There will be an opportunity for local officials, local governments so say that is not what we want our waterfront to be. So that is another reason. Since I have been working on this plan for many years. It has developed into a little more than that, which I am happy to say. I think it has really developed a vision for the waterfront by all the municipalities on the waterfront in terms of what they want to see in the area and sort of give some direction to what is happening in that area. As you may have noticed if you flipped through the plan a little bit, a lot of the projects, a lot of the programs that are recommended are actually already underway. I think that is a good sign, in terms of we like the idea so much that we went ahead and we don't, at this point, going to worry about if the state likes them or not, we like them. I think that speaks well for the plan and the planning process and the intermunicipal cooperation that went on in preparing the plan. So we actually started working on the waterfront plan in 1999 and it was largely completed by 2002. As I mentioned, many of the projects are already underway or even completed in some cases and what we will be doing... I had a suggestion actually from the City of Ithaca, which was suggested to not make a part of the plan, but to include a front piece that says here's an update since the... of the things that have 36 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED happened and are already under way, which I think is an excellent idea rather than trying to update the entire document, which I found a rather daunting task. When I first looked -at this about 6 months ago I said well I will just quickly go through and update it and then realized there was a change on virtually ever page. So that is sort of a quick overview of why a waterfront plan and how we got to the point of actually preparing one. Just let me mention a couple of things that are in the plan that are specific to the Town of Ithaca that might be of particular interest to you. There are several projects recommended that would in whole or in part be located within the Town of Ithaca. Several are more intermunicipal in nature and some have actually already happened. One for example is the boating regulations that all the waterfront communities have now pretty much adopted, identical sets of regulations to help address noise and safety issues on the lake surface. Another project that is recommended in the plan that again would occur at least partially within the Town of Ithaca is the Black Diamond Trail. I think we are all hopeful that it gets built sooner rather than later. Then a couple of the other projects that are mentioned that are a little bit further away. The plan recommends improvements to the Six Mile Creek corridor, which would include, hopefully, providing trail access all the way from Inlet Island up into the City's reservoir area and into the Mullholland Wildflower Preserve. The plan also looks a little bit more long range and actually recommends establishing an East Shore Recreation Way on the day the railroad no longer runs through the area. It is better to put those things in a plan so that if the opportunity arises we have immediate desire of what we want to see happen with that area. Basically it would mirror the idea of the Black Diamond Trail that is happening on the west side of the lake to do something on the east side of the lake. And frankly, I think the east side of the lake would be an even more exciting trail because there are many places that are right on the water. In some ways it is even more waterfront related than the Black Diamond Trail. Then there are a couple of projects that are located exclusively in the Town worth mentioning. One of them, I won't say its done, but it is largely established, is the Town park at East Shore. It has the fishing access that is recommended by the plan. I could not, remember off hand if you could get a small boat in there or not. Mr. Kanter — There isn't really a formal boat access. There is an informal one that could be enhanced at some point. Ms. Jurkowich — But actually right now, the adjoining site provides boat access so that's not really an issue currently. Then there is also a recommendation in the plan to provide a pedestrian /bike trail connection between the Town Park and visitors center. If you look at it there is no obvious solution to that problem, but we put some things in the plan saying if we ever get the chance, lets try to figure out how to do this. Board Member Thayer — When the railroad leaves? 37 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED Ms. Jurkowich — When the railroad leaves that would be a good time, or ...that is about the only time that is going to happen. The geography and the existing streets and buildings there, there really is no obvious solution to that proposal, but the plan still identifies the need for making that connection if it ever becomes a possibility. The plan also looks at things beyond just specific projects and a couple of things worth noting. The plan does address the language in the zoning ordinance for the various municipalities around the lake and the recommendations in terms of the Town of Ithaca's regulations, I believe, were largely... follows what is in the ordinance update that the Town has already gone through. Similarly other towns have recommendations for establishing special zoning districts for the waterfront that they be treated a little differently than other areas in the community. The final thing that I want to mention before we just open it up for questions and discussion. The plan calls for ... I have often been asked well, what is the authority of the plan. How far does it go? Does it tie your hands? In a way this is the kind of plan that you would check when you get a proposal in or when you get an idea in just to see how well a proposal is consistent with the plan. The plan does not lay any absolutes out, but we would hope that all the towns or municipalities on the waterfront would look at proposals in the waterfront area and look at the waterfront plan and see how they could make the two be as close to each other as possible. So I guess I'll stop there and see if you have any questions or comments: Mr. Kanter — What is the general hope for a timeframe for all the localities to adopt it and send it on to the state? Ms. Jurkowich — For the purposes of the SEQR review, the Town of Lansing Planning Board has been established as the lead agency. I believe that they set the public hearing on the SEAR document and given interested agencies a chance to comment up through July 25th, if my memory serves me. So we wouldn't be able to take action before that time. I am hoping by September that we can submit something to the state. There is not real particular push other than we want to get it done and off our plates and onto the state's plate and see what the state has to say. Given the history of this program in other communities that have done these waterfront plans the state is likely to come back with some suggestions for changes to the plan. They have been reviewing it all along, so I am not sure they would be substantive, but when we submit it to the Department of State they will actually send it out to other state agencies that may not have seen it up to this point. So there is the possibility that it will go through a couple of back and forths between the state and the localities. Usually these waterfront plans are done for one municipality and the back and forth is a little easier, but in this case it will be to the state and then back to 6 municipalities and then back to the state. Mr. Kanter — What happens if one of our decides not to adopt it? Ms. Jurkowich — We can't submit it to the state unless all the municipalities adopt it. I think that was the knowledge going in and that is why I think it was a good Kai PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 2112005 APPROVED intermunicipal effort to prepare it. All the municipalities participated on the communities and there was a very good attendance by all the municipalities in all the meetings about the plan. I am not too worried about that. There might be quivals over wordings and things, which is fine, but I don't think we are likely to see a municipality suddenly now decide they don't want anything to do with the waterfront plan. — Board- Member - Conneman - - -Is it a- legal- document ? - — - -- - Ms. Jurkowich — What do you mean by a legal document? Board Member Conneman — Well suppose something is printed in here and someone uses that in court to say well, you kind of agreed to that. I have a particular item in mind. Ms. Jurkowich — Well, it would have the force of many other plans that communities adopt, which is it is a recommendation. It is not something written in stone that the Town is necessarily forced to do as exactly what it says or that a property owner is specifically forced to do what it specifically said in there. It is a plan. It is not a regulation. It is not an ordinance, which would have a much stronger standing in terms of a legal document, but it is a legal document. Mr. Kanter — I didn't see anything in the plan that would, hypothetically for instance talking about a site like Noah's Boat Club or any particular development project that may have been before the board, I don't think there is anything in the plan that would say you have to approve that plan now because the waterfront plan says this is a good idea. It could actually work more the other way that the plan didn't strongly support this kind of development you could probably use the plan, just like we do with the Comprehensive Plan, policy -wise to say that this just isn't consistent with the plan. Chairperson Wilcox — Or the scale being proposed isn't consistent with the plan. Mr. Kanter - Or the character of the shoreline, whatever. Ms. Jurkowich — In terms of the waterfront plan it is more likely to be development on any site on the waterfront would be is it really related to the waterfront or could this use just as easily be located somewhere else. This plan talks about water dependent uses, water related uses, and water enhanced uses as being the primary uses for waterfront property because waterfront property is a very limited resource and if you use it to locate things like DOT maintenance facilities, there is less things that you can do to locate marinas and other things that have to be on the water.. Mr. Kanter — So the Town Board at their last meeting did officially refer this to the Planning Board for a recommendation and we didn't... we just wanted to talk about this tonight and then for everyone to go back and read the document a little more closely and then come back and revisit it at one of our future meetings, but at some point go Wei PLANNING BOARD MINUTES. JUNE 2112005 APPROVED back with a forma recommendation to the Town Board and then the Town Board would consider adoption. Chairperson Wilcox - Joan, did you make a presentation to the Town Board already? Ms. Jurkowich - Yes, I did. Board Member Howe - Are we uncomfortable with making that recommendation now? Mr. Kanter- I mean you could, but I think it would probably be better to just make sure everybody has had a chance to read through it. Board Member Howe - It seems pretty straightforward. Chairperson Wilcox - Any other questions of Joan? Board Member Thayer - No. Board Member Talty - It's an excellent report. Chairperson Wilcox - Thank you for being patient. Chairperson Wilcox closes this segment of the meeting at 9:11 p.m. AGENDA ITEM Approval of June 6, 2005 Minutes PB RESOLUTION NO. 2005 =066: Approval of Minutes: June 7, 2005 MOTION by Chairperson Wilcox, seconded by Board Member Conneman. RESOLVED, that the Planning Board does hereby approve and adopt the June 7, 2005 minutes as the official minutes of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board for the said meetings as presented with corrections. The vote on the motion resulted as follows. AYES: Wilcox, Conneman, Mitrano, Thayer, Howe, Talty. NAYS: None. ABSTAIN: Hoffmann. The vote on the motion was carried. OTHER BUSINESS The board discussed the announcement of the Town of Ithaca I Cornell University Transportation project. .W The board opinions. PLANNING BOARD MINUTES JUNE 21, 2005 APPROVED discussed new wooden fagade of the board tables, giving several different Cancellation of July 5, 2005 Planning Board Meeting PB RESOLUTION NO. 2005 -067: Permission to Cancel July 5., 2005 Planning Board Meeting MOTION made by Board Member Thayer, seconded by Board Member Talty. BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby gives the Chair of the Planning Board permission to cancel the July 5, 2005 meeting. The vote on the motion resulted as follows: AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Mitrano, Thayer, Howe, Talty. NAYS: None. J The motion was declared to be carried unanimously. Adjournment Chairperson Wilcox adjourns the June 21, 2005 Planning Board meeting at 9:20 p.m. Respectfully submitted, 1 Carrie Coates W ' more Deputy Town Clerk 41 Page I of 2 Fred Wilcox From: "Martha Robertson" <mrob(cn' twcny.rr.com> To: <fred.wilcox @verizon.net> Sent. Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:42 AM Subject: RiteAid at East Hill Fred - Since I haven't heard back on the message below, and since I have to head out for a series of meetings, here are my thoughts on the proposed Rite Aid. I would be very pleased if you'd read them into the record tonight (or whenever the issue comes before the PB.) THANKS. To the Town of.Ithaca Planning Board, I understand that Rite Aid is proposing to close its store in the East Hill Plaza when it opens a new store on the site of the Ide's Bowling Lanes. I am quite worried about the consequences of this move for the residents of the senior housing and Summerhill Apartments to the east of the plaza. My mother -in -law lived in the Ellis Hollow Apartments for almost three years before she had to move to a nursing home with Alzheimer's. She was able to live independently (with support) for that period of time because she was able to walk on her own to the P &C and to the drugstore. Those two stores were vital to her existence, and it made all the difference that she could- get there on her own, even as her abilities declined. If the Rite Aid had been across Pine Tree Rd., she would not have been able to get there on her own. Anyone trying to walk from the Plaza to the west side of the street has a treacherous path to navigate, as cars come up the hill with little ability to see far ahead, cars turn in several different directions,. and there is seldom a break in the traffic during much of the day. In fact, when I have to go to the dry cleaner's and then the grocery store, I drive from one side to the other myself. It just is not safe to walk across the road, for a younger person or a senior citizen. This consequence of moving the Rite Aid may seem trivial. But there are many seniors who live in the Summerhill Apartments as well as the senior housing; I'm sure many chose to live there, like my mother-in-law, at least in part because of the convenience of walking to essential stores. This corporate move will cut them off from the drug store and qualitatively reduce their independence. I have thought about possible solutions, that might include redesigning the intersection to be more pedestrian- friendly, or adding a traffic light where the two shopping plaza driveways meet on Pine Tree Rd. I regret that I don't have any great suggestions. Basic sidewalks don't even exist on the west side of the road. I would only ask that the Planning Board take this problem seriously and work with Rite Aid to find a solution. Perhaps a satellite prescription pick -up counter in the P &C could be an option. I hope the company will be open - minded and creative in trying to meet their customers' needs. For many seniors who depend on Rite Aid, and who I assume are faithful and frequent ATTACHMENT #1 JUNE 21. 2005 PLANNING BOARD MEETING A /11 /innc customers, this move will be a severe problem. Thank you for considering my concerns. Martha Robertson 1655 Ellis Hollow Rd, Tompkins County Legislator, Western Town of Dryden >Date: Tue. 21 Jun 2005 10:41:48 -0400 >To: wilcox_fred >From: Martha Robertson <mrobig twcny.rr.com> >Subject: RiteAid at East Hill >Hi, Fred - >I just remembered that tonight you're supposed to be talking about the >RiteAid at East Hill. Is it still on the agenda? If so I'll get my letter >written toot sweet. > Martha Page 2 of 2 60. 10.0015 1 TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD 215 North Tioga Street Ithaca, New York 14850 Tuesday, June 21, 2005 AGENDA -7 06-P:M - -- - -Persons to be- -heard (no -more than five minutes). 7:05 P.M. Consideration of a Sketch Plan review for the proposed 2 -lot subdivision located between 668 and 674 Coddington Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 49 -1 -17.2, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal includes subdividing the +/- 4.172 -acre parcel into two lots for future residences. William Goodhew, Owner; Adam & Kim Scholl, Applicant. 7:20 P.M. Consideration of a Sketch Plan review for the proposed redevelopment of the Judd Falls Plaza properties located at 322 -350 Pine Tree Road and 930 and 946 Mitchell Street, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 62- 1 -3.2, 62- 1 -2.2, and 62 -1 -1, Community Commercial Zone. The proposal includes removing the existing plaza to construct approximately 45,464 square feet of retail, office and other related commercial uses in several new buildings, including a +/- 14,564 square foot Rite Aid Pharmacy store in the first phase of development. The project will also include new stormwater facilities, parking, landscaping, and lighting. Susan Hamilton, Owner; Ellicott Development Company for 1093 Group, LLC, Applicant. 8:00 P.M. Update Regarding the Cayuga Lake Waterfront Plan — Joan Jurkowich, Tompkins County Planning Department. 5. Persons to be heard (continued from beginning of meeting if necessary). 6. Approval of Minutes: June 7, 2005. 7, Other Business: Consider Cancellation of July 5, 2005 Meeting. 8. Adjournment. Jonathan Kanter, AICP Director of Planning 273 -1747 NOTE: IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD IS UNABLE TO ATTEND, PLEASE NOTIFY SANDY POLCE AT 273 -1747. (A quorum of four (4) members is necessary to conduct Planning Board business.) TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD SI&WIN SHEET DATE: June 21, 2005 (PLEASE PRINT TO ENSURE ACCURACY IN OFFICIAL MINUTES) PLEASE PRINT NAME PLEASE PRINT ADDRESS /AFFILIATION 601 Cu/j, "'o — SJ `Cfl� ala LD r T `'ALL. c� 7a 1�olt 4t) I It. lV� �� Co A- get s- �`c /�� L ? 9