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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 2004-02-26FILE DATE SPECIAL MEETING OF THE TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2004 The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in special session on Tuesday, February 26, 2004, in Town Hall, 215 North Tioga Street, Ithaca, New York, at 7:00 p.m. PRESENT: Fred Wilcox, Chairperson; Eva Hoffmann, Board Member; George Conneman, Board Member; Tracy Mitrano, Board Member; Rod Howe, 'Board Member; Kevin Talty, Board Member Jonathan Kanter, Director of Planning; John Barney, Attorney for the Town; Dan Walker, Director.of Engineering EXCUSED: Board Member; Larry Thayer; Susan Ritter, Assistant Director of Planning; Michael Smith, Environmental Planner. OTHERS: Diane Hardy, James Knowlton, Jon Llitsous, Alex Schrieb - Tompkins County American Red Cross; Joyce and Sydney Merritt,. 127 Woolf Lane; Patricia and Gerald Hall, 1307 Trumansburg Road; Doria Higgins, 2: Hillcrest. Drive; Nina Kethevan, 250 Dubois Road; Jim Saunders, 120 Woolf Lane; Roase Teeter, 297 Bundy Road; Elizabeth Quill, Ithaca College; Sandra Conrad, Ithaca Neighborhood Housing Services; Gordon and Jane Walden, 121 Hopkins Road; Chris Papamichael, Aris Investments; Jemma Macera,.125 West Green Street; .Marcie Finlay, 154 Bundy Road; Steven Daughhetee, 245 Hayts Road; David Gombas, 1452 Trumansburg Road; Tony Lucatelli, 1456 Trumansburg Road; Carol Theobald, 142 Indian Creek Road; Laura Lewis, 509 Willow Avenue; Peter Trowbridge, 1345 Mecklenburg Road; Michael Cannon, 409 W. Buffalo Street;. Gina Lord, 92 Peruville Rd Lansing; Steve Bowman Y Yvonne Fogarty, 238 Bundy Road; George Gesslein, 118 Sharpsteen Rd Locke; Don R. Crittenden, 173 Bundy Road; Robin Tessell, 135 Campbell Avenue; Bob Kirby, 103 Grove Road; Tim Ciaschi, 120 Grove Road; Martha Robertson, 1655 Ellis Hollow Road; David W. Sprague, 109 Queen Street; Lee Dillon, 176 Vanbuskirk Rd Newfield; Virginina Bryant, 613 Iradell Road; Ann & Andy Byrne, 137 Hopkins Road; John and .Celia Bowers, 1406 Trumansburg Road; Lenore and Vern Durkee, 115 Woolf Lane; Joanne Carlyle, American Red Cross; Keith Brown, 29 Princleney Road; Sharon M. Marx, 156 Bundy Road; Anna Smith, 242 Dubois Road; Rose Mcerady, 201 West Clinton Street; Herb Engman, 120 Warren Road; Susan J. Suwinski, 5790 Rt, 14A Dundee; Mr. and Mrs. Whitney, 100 Graham Road; Steve Heslop, 175 Woolf Lane, Steve Ferranti, SRF Associates. Chairperson Wilcox declared the meeting duly opened at 7:06 p.m., and accepted for the record Secretary's Affidavit of Posting and Publication of the Notice of Public Hearings in Town Hall and the Ithaca Journal on February 18, 2004 and February 20, 2004, together with the properties under discussion, as appropriate, upon the Clerks of the City of Ithaca and the Town of Danby, upon the Tompkins County Commissioner of Planning, upon the Tompkins County 1, 1 Commissioner .of Public Works, appropriate, on February.20., 2004. PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 2.6, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 and upon the applicants . and /or agents, as Chairperson Wilcox read the Fire Exit Regulations to those assembled,. as required by the New York State Department of State, Office of Fire Prevention and Control. Special meeting called to order at 7:13. p.m. Chairperson Wilcox — I will ask the members of the Board and staff and Town Attorney to speak into the microphone. I am told that it worked very well last Tuesday, both the public was able to hear us and the minutes were very, very easily understood or the tapes were very., very easily understood. Before we move on, some of you may have noticed in the paper this morning that Bill Seldin passed away. Board Member Mitrano — Oh, l didn't know that. Chairperson Wilcox — I respected Bill Seldin greatly. He appeared before this Board a couple of times representing difficult clients and I think he did a wonderful job. I express my condolences to his family, loved ones and relatives. Board Member Mitrano .7 Absolutely. Goodman. Chairperson Wilcox -- George, you wanted to say something before we get started? Board Member Conneman — I was not here at the last meeting. I have been to all of the previous meetings and I had also been to the fieldtrip that Cathy Valentino and the Town Board had a number. of months ago when we first looked at the Overlook. There is an implication in a letter. that someone wrote that it would be impossible for those of us who were not here to read the minutes, wanted to assure, that having a hip surgery and having been home, I absolutely always read minutes, but this time I was able to read them twice. If you don't believe that, you can look at the notes I made on the minutes. I received them. last Saturday and I have had lots of times to read them and all the other things that go along with it. So I want to assure you that I am prepared, as I would be had I been at the meeting, to make the comments that are appropriate. I have some comments to make and I will make them when they are appropriate. I will also ask some questions of my board members, too, when they are appropriate. So I want you to know that I am fully up to speed. Board Member Mitrano — Well, I didn't have hip surgery, but I have prepared for this meeting. 7 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Chairperson Wilcox — All right. The first agenda item as always is persons to be heard. AGENDA ITEM. PERSONS TO BE HEARD Chairperson Wilcox opened this segment of the meeting at 7:16 p.m. Chairperson Wilcox - If anyone in the audience. wishes to address the Planning Board on an issue, item or topic that is not part of. this evenings agenda, which means that you may not come to the microphone and address us in regard to the proposed Overlook at Ithaca site, project.. If there is anything else, please come to the microphone and have a seat. We ask that you give us your name and address and we will be very interested to hear what you have to say this evening. Yes, ma'am. Robin Tessell, 135 Kendall Ave — The best schools have involved parents and the schools are always looking for parents to be involved. In terms of preventing teenage violence, the community is always solicited whether it be to prevent gangs and guns or self- destructive kinds of violence like drugs or suicide. They are always looking to the community to come together and create options and programs that will prevent teens from taking the wrong route. And in terms of .preventing or, well not preventing, but dealing with natural disasters like fires or. floods or issues of natural security, when the budget is cut and like the police and the fire departments and hospitals are maxed out, they are, always seeking the community to come fourth and participate. I think it is really important in times when there are important issues at hand that when the community comes fourth, that we be validated for who we are and not just kind of imbedded to be passive and just pay taxes. We are the people that help support the programs that help the kids to grow and help support you in getting programs to work. So, that is what I want to say. Chairperson Wilcox - Anybody else? Yes, ma'am. Carol Babcock, 262 Bundy Road — I have lived on West Hill all my live, starting down on Westview Drive and then moving to. Bundy Road. I would like to offer my suggestions or comments having lived there all this time... Chairperson Wilcox — Are you going to speak about Overlook? Ms. Babcock — Yes. Definitely. Chairperson Wilcox — Your comments are out of order. Ms. Babcock — I'm out of order? 91 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH:16, 2004 Chairperson Wilcox — Yes,. you are. This session is for anything other than Overlook. Thank you. Anybody else? There being no one we will move on to the next item. Chairperson Wilcox closed this section of the meeting at 7:20 p.m. AGENDA ITEM: Continuation of SEQR Determination regarding subdivision approval, site plan approval, and a recommendation to the Town Board regarding a zoning change, Overlook at 'West Hill, 9290 Trumansburg Road, Chairperson Wilcox opened this segment of the meeting at 7:20 p.m: Chairperson Wilcox - Here is how 1. would like to see this go. I don't think we need..a presentation from the applicant at this point. They are here to answer any questions that we may have. It is our opportunity to discuss this amongst ourselves, raise questions amongst ourselves, raise questions to the applicant and their agents who are here. I wish to point out to the members of the: public that I have received three letters this week asking that they be read into the record and as I did last Tuesday, when we met before, I will read them into the record after the close of the public hearing, should we get to the public hearing. So, they are right here. Having said that I ask the members of the public to sit there, observe. That is your job right now that is your duty and your responsibility. And if we should make a negative determination of environmental significance, then we will move on to consideration of site plan, subdivision and zoning recommendation. Having said that, I open the floor to members of the Planning Board, Board Member Conneman — I would like to start by saying I think that there are some things that are really not an issue in this. You may not agree with me, but I don't think they are issues. For example, schools. The Ithaca. City School District is going to redistrict anyway. We pay the Superintendent and Administration multi -dollars to run the school system. That is going to be run anyway, so that has nothing to do in my opinion with the Overlook. I don't know. if my colleagues agree with me, but I wouldn't even discuss that again. I don't think it has anything to do with anything. Okay? The second thing is, and I may hurt some people's feelings on this one, : but somebody made the point in the minutes that the character of the neighborhood,. that this was a beautiful, rural area. Look, 1 travel more around New York State and know what beautiful, rural areas are than most people in the world and the Trumansburg Road is a mixed area. It's a nice place, but it's got all kinds of things in it. I don't think that is a real issue. I don't believe that the 0 I PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Overlook makes it any better or any worse than it is now. Sure, for those of you who had a 42 -acre field in front of you for 20 years that is great. That is fine. If .you want it to remain that way then you should have bought it. I don't think it changes the nature or character of the neighborhood at all. I do think it is a nice place, but it is not a pristine, rural area. If you want pristine- rural areas I'll write you out a list that you can. travel within 15 miles of this place and I'll show you where they are, but Trumansburg Road is not pristine, at least when I drive up to the hospital and everything else, 1 don't think it is. I don't think that is an issue. Okay? Keep going? Chairperson Wilcox — Floor is yours: Board Member Conneman — The other thing is, I think the drainage and storm water management. There are things that I think need to be tweaked on that, but think that we have to take the message of our Town Engineer to say that this can be done and will be done in the site plan review. I'm not an engineer. I don't know what that all means. It looks okay to me. Fire equipment. I love firemen. They do an awful lot, but I really think that the way that this has been addressed so far probably is okay. The firemen always want more toys.. They do in the Village of Cayuga Heights where I used to live and everyplace else and that's fine. But, I think we've done the best that we can. There was a better solution, but we rejected that when we did not build a bridge, across the railroad tracks: The issue came..up last time about the Department of Transportation. I think Kevin raised the issue. He didn't necessarily think the Department of Transportation was too . swift on a lot of things. I think that is what he was saying even though that is not the term that he used. The. Department of Transportation, in my opinion, isn't too swift on things: I have been in Ithaca probably as long as anybody, except maybe John Barney.. Would you believe that at Route 13 and Warren Road, when that road was opened there was a stop sign: The only reason that we got a light there is because we killed people. DOT operates on you have to kill them or have accidents before they do anything. We had a chance to solve the Octopus problem and they weren't very swift about that either because if we had done that, we would have solved all your problems on T -burg Road and you would have a four -lane going to Ithaca. Over the tracks would have solved all the problems, instead DOT made what I think is a dumb decision. I do not know who runs DOT. I hope it is engineers, Dan, but sometimes l wonder they must be strictly bureaucrats. So I don't think that is an issue as Kevin raised it because you can't do anything about it. Traffic. Let me tell you something. There is a heck of a lot of traffic on that road. If you want testimony, my wife when she gets back to take me home will testify what it is coming up to the hospital on all kinds of nights and driving that road. 5 � F PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 But I .don't believe that the. traffic on that road is going to increase measurably whether you build 86 private. family homes or you build 128 other homes because let me tell you something, people who are supposedly in affordable housing, they will have cars too and people who are otherwise have two sub's and a car to boot. So there is going to be the same amount of traffic. It does not matter what you build there and even if you don't build anything, if you can see a difference going into Ithaca through the Octopus, I can't. All they did was distribute the traffic from one road to another. So that is not an issue. I think there are public safety issues that really concern me. The public safety issues that concern me are not traffic, but first of all we have set aside or someone has set aside a turning lane. So if we need a turning lane to get into the Overlook that will be available. Right? Male voice — Wrong. Chairperson Wilcox— Please, Please. Board Member Conneman — I hope that is true. That is what the minutes say that that has been true. That DOT will insist that Mr. Kyong or whoever put it in. What I am concerned about is that traffic light and people getting across the Trumansburg Road. I like kids. I think kids are going to cross that road. If you are going to put anything in there, what we need is a way to get across that road with a walk sign not just stripes like that have at Cornell that are not very effective. In addition of that in my opinion, somehow TCAT has to come into the hospital complex go around, do whatever they do, come .back and go into the complex of the Overlook and come out. If you don't do those things in. my .opinion, you have a public safety issue and whether we vote for this in the SEAR, Fred, or we vote for this in the site plan, I will promise you I will vote no unless we have public safety at that intersection. That is a hell of an intersection to cross. It is a hell of an intersection drive through let alone cross. So I think that is the issue. On affordable housing, I read all the stuff on affordable housing and I think you could come out with any conclusion that you want. I noticed that..:) got a call this morning from a County Legislator that thought I should be informed that it was okay. There are a lot of letters in our packets that also-say the same thing. You have to have someone wiser than 1 am that when you talk about affordable housing. The one thing that I will say about affordable housing, which will not be very popular with anybody,. is that I don't think Cornell graduate students should live in affordable housing. I think what should happen in affordable housing is that we serve the needs of the community of the people that work in the community and so fourth. If Cornell wants to accept people to go to graduate school and you get a degree, they should provide housing for them in some fashion. G 1 L PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED. MARCH 16, 2004 The other thing I wanted to say that has been positive is that I think the developer has tried to move the houses around so that the view shed of those of you from Bundy Road is much better than . it was before. I don't know if it is perfect because I don't know how they can build houses, but I believe in view sheds and I think that if they move that around and reduced the number of houses as I understand and so that those of you who come from. Bundy Road and, I have been up there looking at that also, that in fact is there. The other issues that came up I think is sidewalks. I believe that Mrs. Bowers was the one that raised the idea of sidewalks. I had my wife graciously drive me from Pete's up to the Overlook this afternoon. There is about a mile and a half of sidewalk in the City of Ithaca, which is not half bad. It is fairly wide. You could walk up and down it. I'm not sure I want to with that traffic on it, but anyway that is another issue, there is a about a mile of sidewalk from where the City stops to where the old walk goes. That is a lot of sidewalk. My personal feeling is that if there were service so the kids could ride the bus, but you have to have service by TCAT,- safety to get on it and also that service has to be service that tells you when the bus is going to come. I was in Oklahoma City this summer and the best thing about Oklahoma City is if you want to ride their trollies and buses. there is a sign on the side of the road that says we will be here at "x" time and by god they are. That is all I have to say. I hope I haven't offended anybody, but I think there are issues and there are non - issues. Chairperson Wilcox — Do you have any questions for the applicant at this point, George? Board Member Conneman — No, I don't. I don't have a map actually. I couldn't find a map where they had jerry- rigged the houses to make the view shed better, but I trust that Peter knows how to do that. Board Member Howe — Fred, do you want us to focus on the environmental issues now or also talk about the site plan? Chairperson Wilcox — Just the environmental issues. Board Member Howe — I .am, just as I was the last time; I am prepared -to vote at anytime on the SEQR so I don't have any additional questions. Chairperson Wilcox — The women are looking at each other. Board Member Hoffmann — All right. I'll start then, but I trust that you might have some comments too, Tracy. There were a couple of things that I have some particular concern about because it didn't seem clear to me that a decision had actually been made and maybe a decision can't be made yet because 7 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH-1.6, 2004 discussions have to go on with TCAT and DOT, but I wanted to talk about my concerns. There were a number of questions about the timing of the traffic studies and I wondered if someone from the applicant could tell us a little-more about the timing of the studies that were done for this project and the timing of the other studies that you compared with like the studies that were done for Linderman Creek, both before it was constructed and after it was constructed. And what I mean be .timing is, as you remember: the comments were from the audience last time whether the studies were done at a time when most people were in the apartments that is when both the local public schools, Cornell and Ithaca College were in session or whether they were done at other times. And if they were done at other times, was it consistently done so that one could compare one study with the other because they are both covering a similar time period. Stephen Ferranti, SRF & Associates — We are traffic engineers. We have done a number of projects... many projects in the Ithaca area. To answer,your question, the original study for this project, the Overlook Project, was initiated and data was collected in particular at the main intersection, of 96 and the hospital in August of 2002 1 believe when school was not in session. Board Member Hoffmann — And what do you mean by school in this case? Public school or college? Mr. Ferranti — Public school, but college activities were going on, but at that particular time I don't think classes were in session. Let me get the exact date for you. Chairperson Wilcox — Take your time. Mr. Ferranti — Page 2 of our September 2003 traffic report, Section 5, subsection b states, "weekday am and pm peak hour traffics were .obtained by SRF .& Associates at the study area intersections and timeframes 7 to 9 and 4 to 6 were selected since they represent the greatest combination of site generated traffic and through traffic on the highways. Data collection occurred on Tuesday, August 26 and Wednesday, August 27, 2003 just last year. That is the original basis for our study. You also mentioned that after- studies or post- studies performed at Linderman Creek. We also performed the original study for Linderman Creek and then the post -study for Linderman Creek and I have some information on that. I have too much information is what I have. Chairperson Wilcox — You think you have a lot? Mr. Ferranti — Bear with me. It is in a binder. PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED.MARCH 169 2004 Board Member Hoffmann — So Cornell would have been in session? Board Member Mitrano — I think so. Chairperson Wilcox — Lets be careful. They may have returned, but they might not have been in session.. Board Member Mitrano — Especially the week before Labor Day. Chairperson Wilcox— When I was a student, we started on Labor Day. It was the first day of classes. Okay. Mr. Ferranti — My recollection is that the counts at Linderman Creek for the post - study were taken in July of ... the year I don't have at my fingertips, but they were July counts. It is here somewhere. We have a letter dated December 23, 2003 to the New York State Department of Transportation that outlines quite a bit of material and in this is embedded that information. I just can't find it. Board. Member Hoffmann - children, the school children and Ithaca College students summer students here, but who would have been here. right? Grad students? So in July, those of you maybe who have school would have been on vacation and Cornell students would not have been here. There might have been )therwise it wouldn't have been the regular students Regular undergraduates wouldn't have been here Mr. Ferranti — It says here in that letter that I referenced December 23, 2003, page 4 of the letter that was sent to the New York, State Department of Transportation, under revised analysis. "We conducted. a post -study at the Linderman Creek development in 2001," and it was July when the data was collected there. Board Member Hoffmann — Okay. And you don't know when the original study for Linderman Creek was done there? I'm just trying to get a feeling for whether the studies can be compared with each other because they were done at times when similar number of people were around. Mr. Ferranti — To answer that question, I would say yes. Even though we do have variation, we expect variation in traffic in the order of 5 to 10 percent at least. Typically from often times daily variation in traffic for whatever reason. Events in the area, vacations, all sorts. So we look at the variation and the trip generation and in the volumes generated by projects and more importantly we look at the volume of traffic on the adjacent roadways, like Route 96 for example and we closely determine the seasonal variation attached to those roadways because generally the forehand mentioned, Route 96 is the heavy traffic roadway. So it is that number that is more important than the smaller trip 0 { 1 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 1.6, 2004 generating numbers. We looked closely at the seasonal variation on Route 96. We. based much of our information on New York State . Department of Transportation records. I have a copy of some of their material that they document.:.that they classify roadways according to factor groups. Factor groups are a fancy name that just gives you an indication if the road way is seasonal in its use or not seasonal or heavy commuter traffic or not heavy commuter. According to New York State records, Route 96 is classified as a factor group 30 highway, which means that there is some seasonal variation. The seasonal variation they've determined and they have tables. that indicate what that variation is for every month of the year. Based on their information, which I have a copy of, August counts, when we did our counts for this project represents the near highest volumes on Route 96 according to their records. Their records are based on permanent count stations across the State in this region and regions around us that reflect roadway characteristics similar to Route 96 on recreational routes, commuter routes. Board Member Hoffmann — I understand this and this was also explained .in the papers that you provided us, but a lot of us who live in Ithaca feel that Ithaca is very different because there are so many students here and the figures about seasonal changes, which I understand are there regionally, maybe different here. I think that is where the concern comes from. Mr. Ferranti — We have the New York State Department of Transportation data. We also have in .our office, in our records data that we have collected on numerous projects. The Museum of the Earth, we worked on that project. We worked on the Linderman Creek. project. We studied traffic on 96 as,an original part of that first study. So, we have historical traffic count records. The exact dates I don't have right at my fingertips, but we also rely on that information. We collect as much information as we can to account for exactly what you are saying, local factors, so.that we are not just generalizing based on something in Canandaigua, New York. It is specific to here. We have counted traffic on Route 96 multiple times. We use New York State Department of Transport ation machine counts to help validate our information to tell us if we are high, low. or off base one way or another. Then we do our best to come up and determine a volume or number to use as the basis for our reports. Board Member Hoffmann — Okay. Thank you. Chairperson Wilcox — Before you leave, do me a favor, would you state your credentials please. Mr. Ferranti My credentials, thank you for asking. I'm a professional engineer. I'm a professional traffic operations engineer, there are few of us, but I am one of them in the country certified by the Institute of Transportation of Engineers. Certified also by the New York State Education Department. I've. been in traffic 1.0 1 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16,.2004 solely for almost 30 years, working exclusively in traffic engineering. When we get brought in on projects that are sensitive or controversial or involve litigation, the first thing asked us is please provide us your credentials or some information that qualifies you to what you are doing. I believe our experience.:.) am confident in what we put together. I am confident in the data that we collect. We may have to work with as much information as we can to come up with the best picture, but I stand by. our conclusions and I stand by our recommendations and urge any of you to seek out anyone with experience at any of the regions around us in the New York State Department of Transportation, although this gentleman did not speak highly of the Department of. Transportation, so I say that with a littler asterisk. I urge you to touch base with the experience people in Region 3, Region 6, and Region 4 where 90 percent of our work takes place. In the 30 years time, one last thing, we've worked and I've personally worked on over 600 and our company has worked on over 1200 traffic impact studies similar to this. We have been in the business a long time. We have worked on many projects very similar to this. We don't have all the answers. We seek input. Local knowledge is very important, but we give you the best snapshot of what the implications are of a project. Board Member Talty — Has staff received copies of all the documentation that we have been given tonight to the applicant? Mr. Kanter — Most of them' ..the ones that we felt were important for him to see before the meeting yes. Board Member Talty Are you in receipt of the letter dated February 25th from John Bowers and Andy. Byrne with regards to the issues that they've had with regards to traffic evaluation? Mr. Ferranti — Yes, I am. We received it today via fax. Board Member Talty — Eva, I don't want to cut you off. I'd like you to specifically identify because for us, as George so notably pointed out we are not traffic engineers and don't pretend to me, it seems to me that there is a distinct separation between the numbers and figures you have provided the board and what has been indicated here. I.would like to know if Mr. Feak of Cortland DOT is an individual that you know and have contacted. in the past and are his credentials up to speed and does he support the documentation that you have been given. Mr. Ferranti — Let me answer the first question. Do we know Mr. Feak and are we familiar with Mr. Feak? I personally am not. Someone. in my office is, Amy Dake. She was here for an earlier presentation. Mr. Feak, I'm not familiar with that gentleman. He may be new into the Region 3 or he may not be. It's just that our paths may not have crossed. 11 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Board Member Talty — How.about some of the actual figures that he assisted the two individuals who gave us this documentation this evening? Have you had time to analyze what was before you? Mr. Ferranti — Is this an appropriate time you would like me to talk about this? Chairperson Wilcox — The question has been asked, yes. Mr. Ferranti — Yes and I'm glad you did because we did get this, this letter and commend Mr. Bowers and Mr. Byrne and I hope they are here tonight to talk to this letter. Anyone can collect traffic information. That is one of the reasons why traffic is such an issue with so many people. Everyone drives. Everyone experiences it.. It is not a structural engineer where you don't see the interworkings of the beams or any of the underground, but traffic everyone sees and experiences it. Anyone could go out and collect data and I don't doubt some of the data that is collected here and I will get to it specifically that was collected at Linderman Creek: Has everyone read this letter on the board? Chairperson Wilcox — I have. Board Member Hoffmann — We just received them tonight. I didn't have time to get through it completely, but I read the beginning of it. I'll look at it now that you. are talking about it. Mr. Ferranti — I think it is very important that you all have read it before I speak to it. Board Member Hoffmann — Well, when such a volume of mail is presented to us as we come to a meeting, I just feel it cannot be expected of us that we read everything. Mr. Ferranti — For sake of time, I'm going to cover what I feel are the. four most important points in this letter. The first item that I made note of was pedestrian safety. We agree with everything that is said here regarding pedestrian safety. We always have, with the traffic signal at. the main entrance and . with the modification to the signal that needs to be made to accommodate this extra leg, pedestrian signals would be installed. We recommend that they be installed. We do not have the final answer, New York State Department of Transportation does. But by all means, , we see that as a natural component of that signal modification, which we have to do if this project moves forward: It would have push buttons, it would indications, it would have crosswalks... all of the necessary pedestrian features that you typically see at an intersection with pedestrians. We agree on that. 12 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Number two, there is mention and reference to in the second paragraph a figure of 8,000. vehicles 'per day recorded by New York State DOT and then it elaborates on saying that there was another figure of 9,300 vehicles per day, that whole paragraph even though it provides information and the information is .on average daily traffic on Route 96, in our. report the 8,300 number is. solely for information purposes only. It is a standard part included in traffic impact studies, the daily traffic on the road. It is for information purposes. Planners, long term planners look at that number to determine if one lane or two lanes is adequate or do we need more lanes and where are we in that vicinity in needing more lanes in a particular highway, but for our purposes we only gave it for information and none of our conclusions or recommendations are based on that number so it is a mook point to spend a lot of time dwelling on that number relative to the conclusions in our report. Number three, the safety issue. Safety is paramount with traffic engineers. We looked hard and it is one of our responsibilities and so is part of the SEAR to -look hard at traffic and in particular safety. I have the original traffic report with me. Again, dated September 2003 submission. In it on page 12, Section 9, we. have a section entitled Safety Investigation at Route 96 and Bundy Road intersection. And we did this, typically we don't include accident studies in every traffic impact study. Every region in New York State is different. Buffalo requires it. The Rochester region .does not. The Syracuse region generally does not. We included this because there was a concern brought to our attention by the Town that the safety at the Bundy / 96 intersection and also probably at the main intersection was perhaps an issue so we looked at it. And bear with me; I would like to read through this. And we always check, generally, with the .planners as far as the development issues so that we can be comprehensive in our reports. "Concerns were identified by the Town of Ithaca over existing safety conditions at Route 96 / Bundy intersection. Accident history for the most recent three years of data available, September 1998 through August 2001; was obtained from the New York State Department of Transportation." That.is referenced in this letter, that we didn't use that. We did collect that. I have it here with me if anyone would like to see it. We did review it: We did consider it. In addition, the New York State recently, March 27, 2002, which is more recent than that previous information, conducted a highway safety investigation in this area. They sent their own safety experts down here and physically did an inventory investigation, March of 2002, HIS, Highway Safety Investigations, based on accidents that occurred from October 1996 through September 1999. That is what they based them on. This is their information. I have this full report if you would like to see it. It is .very detailed and it is more than you typically see in a traffic impact study that is why we included it. It is better information. It says identify the following existing conditions at the time of the study. This is a two lane State highway ... the location is on the Pill list which means it is on an accident location list ranked 142, severity 1.52 from linear and selected intersection accident rates 13 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 are above the statewide average. They spell that right out. A significant pattern of deer accidents were identified in the corridor, sign up grade needs identified at Bundy / Hayts / Dubois. intersections. These are all some of things that came out of study. Brush clearing needed at Hayts. The following solutions were proposed; this is in their highway safety investigation report. Deer zone extended with appropriate warning signs. Upgrade signs at Bundy, Hayts and Dubois Road intersections. Clear brush near Hayts Road. Upgrade .weathered sign in quarter with new 36 -inch signs. That is from their investigation. And we looked at, as I said, the three -year accident history from September 1998 to August of 2001. Why is it only 2001? That is the latest date that the State compiled accident records on and they still don't have it much further to today. I think it is up to September of 2001. Based on September of 98 to August 2001, six accidents occurred at the Route 96 Bundy intersection during a three -year period. Three. of the six accidents were non - reportable with no information available. That means there is no description as . to causization, type of accidence, anything related to that. The other three included animal collision, one collision with a parked .vehicle and one rear -end.. No discernable accident clusters were .identified. No intersection modifications are recommended. One accident occurred at 96 Cayuga Medical intersections during the three -year period with the data provided by New York State Department of Transportation. We rely on that data always for our studies and even local data if we can get it. This accident involved a northbound vehicle and a southbound left turn vehicle. Given the frequency of occurrence, no inherent safety deficiencies have been identified at this in and no modifications are required or recommended based upon that safety investigation. So I bring that to light because that is in this letter and it says we didn't consider that information and we certainly did. And the predominant type of accidents, even though there are more than normal accidents on a road of that nature, on that stretch, they are animal related accidents that do not involve multiple vehicles. They involve an animal and a car. It is not to.say that can't be a dangerous situation, but it is not as a result of side traffic or friction from Cayuga Medical Center or from Bundy Road or from Hayts Corners Road. I leave it at that. The last and probably the most important piece of information and without elaborating and spending so much time on it, there is a large paragraph here that speaks to an actual traffic survey, data collection, traffic count taken by, I assume these two gentlemen or their agents at Linderman Creek for the. purposes, I believe, of validating what we said at the last meeting or to validate the volume of traffic we collected . at Linderman Creek in our post- study. I'm going to cut through the quick of this. In essence, they are saying our numbers, our volume of traffic that we collected at Linderman and that based on those numbers we revised our analysis and resubmitted that to the State and ended up with the conclusion where we are today. So, they are putting a lot of weight on these 14 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Linderman Creek volumes. Our volumes, as I said, we taken in July of 2003 or post- study, whichever. I said it earlier I think. I'm not going to go look back, but it was done in July. The letter in essence in questioning the validity... Board Member Hoffmann — 2001 is what you said. Mr. Ferranti — Thank you. Questioning the validity of the volumes. Throughout this letter or throughout this paragraph that speaks to the Linderman Creek volumes, it says that the study that they performed ... and therefore decided it was essential to make up an up-to -date count of the traffic generated at peak hours at Linderman Creek. This was carried out in the peak a.m. hours of 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. on Monday, February 23 and for the peak p.m. hours 4:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. on Tuesday, February 24th. The results of the count are astonishing. Indicates that they are higher in essence than what we collected. There is one statement in here I would like to read.' "Comparing this to SRF's revised figures . of 1592 for the peak. a.m. and peak p.m. hours, respectively we see that the number of a.m. trips that Overlook will generate based on actual current data is more than double the number estimated by the developers while the number of p.m. trips; probably an underestimate for the reasons mentioned by ... because they are at least 26 percent higher. The a.m. figures are particularly striking because SRF's absurd vehicles of three vehicles entering Overlook would not even take into account buses, etc. It is clear that the site generated traffic volumes projected by .SRF are not even close to reality." Throughout this paragraph and as it indicates here, data was collected 7 to 9 a.m. on Monday, February 23rd and 4 to 6 p.m. on February 24th, for a two hour period and everywhere it references the data collected over the hours ... the two hour period. This data looks fine with what they collected, but its using this data is where the inexperience get misguided. That is a two -hour count. All the analysis, all the investigations, all levels of service, all investigations operationally are on a one hour basis. So these volumes are reflective of two hours of counting, versus our which was one hour. Of course they would be approximately double of what we collected. All the decisions and recommendations, conclusions in our report are based on hourly volumes. That is the standard measure used in traffic impact study reports, not two hours. If we use broke down their data on an hourly basis, which we don't have access to, I'm sure it would be on the order of what we collected. So, consequently, the argument is unfounded, unsubstantiated and incorrect and we stand by our completions and recommendations. Chairperson Wilcox — Kevin, the floor is yours if you want it. Mr. Kanter — Cou.ld I add something on the accident part of it if I could? Just to clarify, there was also a statement in the letter on Page 3 that made an assumption that the accident figures gotten from the State probably did not include deer collisions. In fact, our department over the last couple of years has collected accident and volume in formations and we actually put together this 15 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 map and the particular area that was referred to in this report is between.Hayts and Bundy Road. In those years, 1999 to 2001, there were actually.. a 16 of those accidents were animal collisions specifically. We actually were able to separate out if you look at the legend, the types of collisions are recorded, which was obtained from the State Department of Motor Vehicles, which is really the only place that collects the exact information and they are the actual reports that are submitted by the reporting sheriff or State trooper. So out of the 58. accidents that are. mentioned here, 16 of them were animal collisions. I assume that most of them were deer, which.is about 28 percent of the total number of accidents in that timeframe. So, then the other thing that became clear by looking up the accident types, most of the others were vehicle collisions; one vehicle colliding with another one or more. There was a cluster of a number. of accidents right around the hospital intersection, which indicates that likelihood that many of these accidents were caused as vehicles were approaching the intersection of the traffic light. Rear -end collisions are typical in that type. And also because of the way that some cars veer to the right to enter the hospital, some of the sideswipe types of accidents. Board Member Talty — So, Jon, do the figures that you gave coincide with the applicant's figures? Mr. Kanter — Well, the total numbers of accidents between Bundy and Hayts Road basically coincide with what both groups were saying, but it is how you use the data that you have to be careful of. That is what I am saying. Chairperson Wilcox — All set, Kevin? Board Member Talty —Yup. Board Member Hoffmann — I may actually ask this gentleman to come back. If you don't mind, you might be able to give me some information about my other concerns and that has to do with the fact that it is still a little uncertain about what is going to happen to bus access to the site and the setting aside of a strip of land along the western side of Route 96 just east of this property fora possible future left hand turn lane being constructed in the middle, but that would mean the road would have to be widened, I assume there. There reason 1 think of these two things as related is that we did get a letter from TCAT saying that they would be happy, I shouldn't say they would be happy to build maybe, but they would agree to build bus turnouts. I cannot remember exactly the wording, on either side of Route 96 at this point for buses to be able to stop safely and pickup and drop off passengers, but it seems to me that you can't build a bus turnout in a piece of land that is being reserved for a future possible widening of the road and the recommendation from our own planning staff has. also been consistent with what the applicants has recommended, which is building a turn around in the project area for. the bus to come in with a little bus shelter and to pick up and 16 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 drop off passengers there. That makes a whole lot more sense to me. It seems safer, more convenient and all that. So, but I don't understand and I feel uncertain about the status of these things. I don't know if you have any updated information tonight about that. Peter Trowbridge, Trowbridge Wolf Architects — A week ago Friday, Margo Chuten, who's project manager in our office., did speak with Dwight Mengle about this issue. Steve Ferranti and Chris Papamichael and myself were at a DOT meeting late last year. We did present both TCAT's proposal of a pullout on the shoulder on Trumansburg Road as well as our proposal for a turn around on the site. DOT clearly preferred the turn out in the site and we have continued to carry that with a bus stop. The discussion with Dwight Mengle a week or so ago, the outcome of that was that he would like to sit down with staff from the Town, perhaps the Town Supervisor, and have a broader discussion. He wasn't willing to have a final negotiation with our firm, but we had been in regular contact with. Dwight Mengle and I think that between now and hopefully prior to final site plan approval we could arrange for that meeting. So we continue to carry a preferred proposal that both DOT and the developer and the project team have. It.does require, however, more conversations primarily with the municipality and TCAT and ourselves.. It isn't resolved at this point, Eva. Board Member Hoffmann — Right, but were you saying that both DOT and TCAT would prefer to have the buses go into the site? Mr: Trowbridge — TCAT at this point, because of their scheduling certainly will provide service at the site. No one is doubting that. DOT expressed their interest in having buses pull, because fundamentally the buses would. be pulling on to the shoulder and it would be much safer for the buses to pull into the site as part of the turn around. However, there needs to be, I think a larger conversation with Dwight Mengle of TCAT about that operation. Clearly, with Linderman, initially as you know TCAT was not willing to go into the site and now they see it as a very good stop for them. Sometimes it is a matter of a chick and an egg because this project is not finalized yet, there is sort of a. positioning. 1 think if the project moves on, TCAT will also see that there is a level. of seriousness about the project and perhaps will engage that conversation. The last time we discussed it with Dwight . Mengle, he would like to sit down with the Supervisor, staff and other interested parties. Board Member Hoffmann - But if that were not possible, would it in fact be possible to build a turn out for the bus on the western side of the road is that strip of land is going to be reserved for future lane. Mr. Trowbridge — It is not mutually exclusive. If the bus pullout got built now, Eva, and lets say at some future date 15 years out we needed a left hand turning lane and we still couldn't negotiate for a turn around on the site, the pullout would 17 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 just move further into the site. They would move along with the lane. So they are not mutually exclusive. We understand as a part of the agreement that there would be a set aside, a least for the extent of property that we have control of, set aside for possible future development of a left hand turning lane. Board Member Hoffmann — And if it should be that this is how it ends up, with the pull off instead of a turn around on this property, would you still save some room for a turn around in the future? Mr. Trowbridge — There is a lot of room on. the north side of our entrance drive. .There, in fact, Steve Ferranti's office did a preliminary intersection design as we were looking at what might be possible for a left hand turning lane. We looked at that and there certainly plenty of accommodation between the playing field that we are proposing for a left hand turning lane and a bus pull out. So those things, in the worse case scenario, all be accommodating. Board Member Hoffmann - Okay. So we could put in some condition for future alternatives. Okay. Thank you. I'll let someone else go for awhile. Chairperson Wilcox — Do you want to go? Board Member Mitrano — I would like to move the motion. Chairperson Wilcox — I have a motion to. declare a negative determination of environmental significance. Board Member Hoffmann — Well, then I do have some more questions. Board Member Conneman — Well, I have .a concern ... (not audible). Chairperson Wilcox - I've got a motion. Board Member Howe — And lets make sure that we are not confusing site plan issues with SEQR issues. Board Member Conneman — Rod, I don't know, but I want it in the minutes that raised the question that the SEQR and it they're not addressed in the SEQR, that they will be in the Site Plan, otherwise I will vote against the Site Plan, Okay? Is that okay? Mr. Kanter — But what are your issues that you want us to address? Board Member Conneman — What are my issues? My issue is that we have to worry about public safety. We have to have a walk light and pedestrian crossing. We have to negotiate with TCAT to have expanded service and for them to pull PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16,.2004 into the site. We have.to be sure that there is a set aside for a possible left hand turn lane and we have. to. be sure that this view corridor has actually been changed so that the people who are on Bundy Road and elsewhere get what they want, which is better view. Those four things, if you promise me does those either in the SEQR or in the site plan review, I will vote yes. Whichever way you want me to do it. If I vote yes to. SEQR and then you don't do it, I'm going to vote no. Mr. Kanter — Maybe we could ask the applicant to address the view shed because we didn't talk about that. The others... Board Member Hoffmann — And I have some questions about that, too. Board Member. Conneman — I have great in Peter to do that, but I haven't seen the diagram. Chairperson Wilcox- That's right. You didn't see the diagram in the minutes. Mr. Kanter — You can get a second for the motion and then discuss. Board Member Conneman — Okay. Fine, Board Member Howe — I'll second. Chairperson Wilcox — .Second from Rod Howe. Board Member Hoffmann — All right. Shall. I bring up my other concerns then? This is actually one, which was mentioned in the environmental assessment form, part II by our staff. So, but I had a question about it. It mentions that it would be, there is some concern about having paths and walkways and such .to connect this land with land on the other side of Route 96 and further south with other paths and other public spaces. I just wanted to ask you a little bit about that. How you were thinking of putting those in place? Mr. Trowbridge— I can address that, Eva. Along with Holt Architects, we are currently working on a master plan for the hospital. I know that staff has sat down with the design team and has reviewed our preliminary plans and we are hoping to bring that to the Board in the next two months. The hospital . is committed to extending their sidewalks and their pedestrian paths that currently exist on hospital property, as you know. They are also committed to connect those paths to the Black Diamond Trail at such time that the trail is constructed. They sidewalks on the hospital property are almost contiguous all the way up to the intersection. There is a small segment on hospital property that needs to get constructed to make the connections all on contiguous. As you know, the Museum of the Earth along with the hospital, did make a sidewalk connection 19 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 from a. TCAT bus stop to provide convenient pedestrian connections from the museum to the hospital and then subsequently with a very small stretch of sidewalk, probably less than 100 feet on the hospital side, we'll have a continuous walkway to the intersection. And I think, George, that we have committed as you heard Steve Ferranti say, that a part of the intersection design will have pedestrian crossings. There is a sidewalk then that runs on the Overlook property right down to the intersection as .proposed and we are carrying that on our site plan. So, with a very small segment of sidewalk on the hospital property, again, we will be bringing this to the board in the next couple of months, there is a continuous connection all the way down to the proposed Black Diamond Trail, which would allow people then to have pedestrian access to Cass Park and other city parks in the City. Board Member Hoffmann — Now, to follow up on that, would any of the paths on your property be available for the public to use? Mr. Trowbridge — Sure. Let me just show you. The intent of the area out near Trumansburg Road, there is a half size playing field, as you know, near the bus stop. The walkway extends up to the bus stop so in terms of the general public up to the loop road there is a walkway that is currently constructed. We have talked about in the proposal as well.as a part of the recreation and open space master plan that the Town has that there would be accommodation for the continuation of the trail. along what we are calling West. Hill Drive, which ultimately would be the. dedicated roadway within the project to the Town. Board Member Hoffmann —.So are you saying that there would eventually be a trail all along Overlook Drive? Mr. Trowbridge — Well, there are sidewalks all along Overlook... Board Member Hoffmann — I'm sorry. I didn't mean Overlook Drive. I meant the other one. Mr. Trowbridge — The West Hill Drive. There is certainly an accommodation. Right now the trails don't go anywhere and so until such time there is a destination, we would be providing a semi - public and it would fall in the ultimate dedicated right -of -way. So the reality is that it would become a public sidewalk, passively become a public sidewalk at such time that the road is dedicated to the Town. So that segment is a part of the site plan and it would be constructed as part of the .first phase, actually the 1A phase, the very first phase of the project development. Board Member Hoffmann — Yes, but I guess what I am trying to make sure is that I understand correctly that that sidewalk would be extended all the way to Hayts Road eventually. i PLANNING BOARD MINUTES. SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Mr. Kanter — I think that would be a Planning Board decision when that comes in form subdivision. Mr. Trowbridge — I think Jon is absolutely right. We don't have an overall site design for the third phase of construction. Mr. Kanter — The current site plan shows the sidewalk up to the entrance road. Board Member Hoffmann — I noticed that you describe the interior road now in the latest revision as a private road. Mr. Trowbridge — That's right. So only the through drive, what is called West Hill Drive between Hayts and Trumansburg Road would ultimately dedicated to the Town. Board Member Hoffmann — And then if I could change the topic a little bit, but it is still you who would be answering the questions, unless you have something else? Chairperson Wilcox — No. Somebody asked about the views and he had the cross - sections there. Board Member Hoffmann.— Well, what I wanted to bring up has to do with the views so you can have that up and it has to do with the landscaping and the views. Chairperson Wilcox — If landscaping is site plan related, hold off. Board Member Hoffmann — I think it is related to view, which I think is related to SEQR. Did you want to add something? Mr. Trowbridge — No. If there is a question about the site plan, Eva, I'd be happy to answer that first as long as it is up. Board Member Hoffmann — On both the section and on the site plan, you show a buffer along the eastern edge of this area you are building now. It looks fairly solid. There is an opening in the middle,.but it looks pretty much like a solid line. I would like to make sure that there is buffer only where needed and spaces. left open to preserve whatever distant views there might be from Hopkins Road. So, judicious planting of the trees where it is important to have them, but leaving spaces open where it can be open. Mr. Trowbridge — That is a very good comment. As you know, the buffer is required of us because ultimately, if there is two different zones, a buffer is 21 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 1.6, 2004 required anyplace where we have a change of zone. So the buffer is a Town requirement. We are.not imposing that on ourselves. So it is a requirement of our site development and the guidelines. Board Member Hoffmann — Is it a visual buffer necessarily? Mr. Trowbridge — I just want to follow up that the staff did express to us that there are some concerns about .buffers, .heights of buffers and view obstruction. So, the second round. of plantings we have gone back to small stature trees. So we are looking at Crab apples, small stature Maples for just that reason. Staff did bring that up to us and we modified species accordingly so that what we are looking at really are there are some larger stature trees in there, White pines for instance, but you see both the Maples and the Crab apples really provide the buffer in terms of the letter of the law, but do accommodate views over them. Board Member Hoffmann — It is also then a matter of planting them in such a way that they do the job for what is needed, but leaving open space. Mr. Trowbridge — It is something, certainly, that our firm would take on as a part of any construction and sort of layout observation. Board Member Hoffmann — And.when one talks about views, one doesn't only think about views from the site like this, but across the lake from the other side. I. noticed that there is this buffer along the western edge of the Kyong property where the doctor's office is and there were not too many trees indicated east of the eastern most. buildings. Most of the houses otherwise have trees all around them, but along that edge there aren't any trees along the eastern edge. . Mr. Trowbridge - We have some photographs and the. intent was that we were trying to save as much vegetation on both. the north and the east side. I can show you the photographs of the vegetation that.we are saving. We thought that sometimes and it has been our experience or my experience personally is that in this climate with vegetation, often times with native species is much more rapid than going out and planting new plants. So our strategy has been to preserve vegetation on the north and east side and we did bring photographs in to show you what that looks like. Board Member Hoffmann —.So you are saying there are trees there, which are not indicated on the site plan. Mr. Trowbridge Well, they are just off the site plan. So there are a number of ... this is the hedgerow that we would be retaining on the east side. This is the hedgerow, actually both sides that we are retaining on the north side. So those are plans that are currently out there. We didn't feel that it was necessary to add 22 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16,.2004 yet another new buffer planting. Our hope was that we would be preserving vegetation that currently exists on the site and that is our intention. Board Member Hoffmann — Isn't most of that vegetation on the site that is .not part of this proposal? Mr. Trowbridge — Its true, some of it is and some of it isn't. The front edge of this and all of this vegetation is so that everything back to the big Norway, almost to the Norway spruce are a part of this project. Board Member Hoffmann — Okay, but that is a fairly low hedge and I understand that is also nice to have views from these housing units .and not to block them, but I was a little bit puzzled as to why there were trees all around the houses in the more western most section and not in this eastern most section. Mr. Trowbridge — Well, because there is existing vegetation over there. In the western most section when construction is done there will be no vegetation at all. So we were trying to utilize existing vegetation as part of the landscape character on the north and the east where on the west side there would-be regrade there really would be very little of if no vegetation left on that side. Board Member Hoffmann = What do the rest of you think about plantings there down towards the doctor's offices? Board Member Conneman — I think views are very important. I think we have to see what Peter develops for the site plan to address what you are talking about. I realize Mr. Kyong could wipeout all of this tomorrow. Mr. Trowbridge — I agree. Board Member Hoffmann - That was my concern about the fact that they are not on the property that you control necessarily. Board Member Conneman — There again, you have the argument from people who on Bundy Road and elsewhere would like trees, but not necessarily 100400t Norway spruces. Mr. Trowbridge — No. Again between' our preliminary ... our sketch plan and our preliminary submission, we did make alterations based on staff comment. Board Member Hoffmann — Okay. I think that takes care of the things that wanted to ask. I . have some more comments about trees, but I'll do that under site plan review. Mr. Trowbridge - Thanks for the remote microphone. a] PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 1.6, 2004 Board Member Conneman — Peter, I just. wanted to do the view shed. I think I understand it, but I want to be sure everybody in the audience also sees it. Mr. Trowbridge .— Just to be clear, we have preliminary subdivision, not a final subdivision for the market.rate lots and what we are proposing are the lots that are immediately east. of the properties along Hopkins Road. that they would be very large lots, up to two acres. So the greatest view obstruction that we thought would occur here. was the potential of single family homes in this area. So the thing that we could do in the long run that would obstruct the view the least would be to make sure that the lowest density on the site would occur immediately east of the existing homes on Hayts Road. So while you don't have a final subdivision, you have a preliminary one in your packet and that is what we have done. The lots here could be 15,000 square feet and many of them are six times that just to make sure that we have as much open area in this location as possible. But the other things that we looked at last time, we did provide a site section to sort of understand the various topographic heights. We did explain this a bit last time, but I'm happy to do that again. You can see that the existing elevation up at Hayts Road is 1045. The very first unit that we are building, the elevation is 983. So you see that we have something in the range of 60 feet of difference between this elevation and the highest house and these buildings are only 30 some feet high. Clearly the long views out towards the lake are well over the top of the very highest unit on the site. As you know, the other units step down towards the Kyong buildings. As you look back up because I think Eva was talking about views of the site, the Kyong buildings for the most part, this ensemble of buildings will really continue to dominate the view from Trumansburg Road. As you look up the new West Hill Drive, you are going to see very few of these homes. Most of these homes will be obstructed both in terms of mature vegetation and the barn and the house .on the Kyong property as you look west from Trumansburg Road. Chairperson Wilcox All set. Board Member Conneman — I had one other question that I would like to make. We have a number of letters in our packet from County and State legislators. I would want to put in the minutes that I expect them to pressure TCAT to do the right thing at that intersection. I will hold them accountable for that. They like to say it really gets pushed down to them. Lets push up to them once and say you guys do it because you are going to get some money apparently out of that and TCAT should service this area, the hospital, the professional buildings and this area because I don't want any kids killed there. I would feel badly if any kids are killed. They are going to have the money. We don't have the money. They got the money. So that is in the minutes Fred,. right. Vill I PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Chairperson Wilcox — That's in the minutes assuming you are close enough to the microphone and it wasn't garbled. I think you said .it loud enough. We have a motion and a second. Board. Member Talty — Fred, I would like to make a couple more comments if could. Chairperson Wilcox — Sure. Absolutely. Board Member Talty — First of all I would like to say that I really appreciate everyone turning out because as was indicated a little earlier, I think that when a project of this sort is introduced the public should have a say and everyone should be here to hear exactly what is being said because often even though George did read the minutes twice, a lot of things can be misconstrued from the minutes and everybody hears for themselves. So I would like to say that. So I'm glad to see a large crowd here tonight. Second of all, I would like to say no matter what project is built. The character of the community is forever altered. Whether or .not you like it or you don't, it changes the character and the lay of the land. I would like to say that this board always takes that into consideration. I feel as though that particular area up there will be forever altered and I'm not so sure that this type of project is needed in that area. I think there is still a huge concern for traffic and intertwined with .that,. safety. As far as this board member is concerned, I don't think that the burden of proof has been met. I still think there is a huge safety issue up there and a traffic issue as I indicated at the last meeting. The amount :of units there, lets face it, everybody is a two -car family. You can almost I There is n.st assured that each one of those units is going to have two cars. no question in more of a bottle there on Monday, my opinion it was sure how to do it. neck and my mind coming down in the City there will become even and I don't care what the traffic study say because I sat I didn't do a physical count coming through the City but in a mess and we need to straighten it .out and I am not exactly The second.thing is I did watch how many people get on the bus at Linderman Creek. There ain't a whole lot. I didn't count them exactly, but the comments that were made with regards to TCAT and turn around and as far as I am concerned. It is nice. It's needed. There are certainly people that will utilize TCAT, but lets face it, most people will be driving their cars. You can see it everyday in the Octopus and if you don't believe it, I don't know what you are seeing out there.. So as far as this member is concerned, the burden of proof has not been met for traffic or safety and the character will certainly be changed whether it is a positive or negative. RZ, PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 1.6, 2004 Also, what has not been brought up yet is, I wanted to know what the current dollar figure. is proposed for tax revenue for this project. How is it going to relieve the burden of taxes in this community? I have not read that. Maybe i misread it or didn't see it. If somebody could point it out to me I would be very happy. think most of the people in this room would like.to hear that'as well considering the reassessments that are going on once again. With that in mind, i will not be voting for this for the environmental impact and I just want to go on the record as saying that. Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you. I have a motion and a second. Any further comments? All right we need to make a slight modification to the draft resolution to change the dates from February 17th to today, which is February 26th. Then, whereas number 5, 1 would like to note that the public hearings had public hearings held on December 16, 2003, and continued to February 17, 2004. That change acceptable Tracy and Rod? Our discussion was continued through today, even though the public hearing was not. Any: further discussion? All those in favor please raise your hand: Chairperson Wilcox, Board Member Hoffmann, Board Member Conneman, Board Member Mitrano, Board Member Howe — Aye. Chairperson Wilcox — i have 1, 2, 31 4, 5. Those opposed? Board Member Talty —.Nay. Chairperson Wilcox — Kevin Talty. There are no abstentions. The motion is passed by a vote of 5 to 1. Thank you all very much. Alrighty. PB RESOLUTION NO. 2004 -006: SEQR - Overlook at West Hiii, Preliminary Site Plan and Subdivision Approval and Recommendation to Town Board Regarding Rezoning, Tax Parcel No. 24 =4 -14.2; 1290 Trumansburg Road MOTION made by Tracy Mitrano, seconded by Rod Howe WHEREAS: 1. The Town of Ithaca Planning Board is considering Preliminary Subdivision Approval, Preliminary Site Plan Approval, and a recommendation to the Town Board regarding the Zoning Change for the proposed residential development, Overlook at West Hill, located at. 9290 Trumansburg Road (NYS Route 96), Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 24 -4 -14.2, Residential District R -15. The proposal consists of two phases of residential development, consisting of 128 affordable rental apartment units in 16 17: PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVEDWARCH 16, 2004 buildings and a community center in Phase I on a 24.5 + /, acre portion of Tax Parcel No. 24 -4 -14.2, and 15 lots for single- family, market rate homes in Phase II on about 19 acres of the subject property. The current owners would retain about 5 acres containing the existing medical practice fronting on Trumansburg Road. The applicant is currently requesting consideration of rezoning the 24 +/- acres for affordable rental apartments from R -15 Residence to MR Multiple Residence and preliminary subdivision and site plan approval for the Phase I apartments. Song Ja Kyong, Owner; Aris Investments, Applicant; Grace Chiang, HOLT Architects and Peter Trowbridge, Trowbridge & Wolf, Landscape Architects, Agents, and 2. The proposed actions, which include subdivision approval and site plan approval by the Planning Board and rezoning by the Town Board, are Type I actions pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, 6 NYCRR Part 617, and Town of Ithaca Local Law No. 5 of the Year 1988 Providing for Environmental Review of Actions in the Town of Ithaca, and 3. The Town of Ithaca Town Board, in a resolution dated October 23, 2003, has referred the petition to rezone the above - referenced parcel to the Planning Board for a recommendation, and 4. At its meeting on November 4, 2003, the Planning Board proposed to establish itself as Lead Agency to coordinate the environmental review of the above - referenced actions, and notified potential Involved and Interested agencies of its intent to serve as Lead Agency, and 5. The Planning Board, at a public hearing held on December 16, 2003, and continued on February 17, 2004, and at a special meeting on February 26, 2004, has reviewed and accepted as adequate the. Full Environmental Assessment Form (EAF) Part I prepared by the applicant, Part II of the EAF prepared by the Town Planning staff, and has reviewed other application materials, including the applicant's "Submission for. SEQR, Site Plan Review, Subdivision, Rezoning for the Proposed Overlook at West Hill, Aris Investments, Ithaca, New York," dated 14 November 2003, "Site Traffic Impact Evaluation for the proposed Overlook at West Hill," dated September 2003, "Preliminary Stormwater Management Study — Proposed Residential Development, Overlook at West Hill," dated November 2003, "Phase 1A Cultural Resource Assessment," dated October 15, 2003, "Phase 1B Archeological Survey; " dated November 25, 2003, "Supplemental Information and Submission fora SEQR, Site Plan Review, Subdivision, Rezoning, Proposed Residential Development, Overlook at West Hill, Aris Investments, Ithaca, New York," dated 9 January 2004, preliminary plans for "Overlook at West Hill Apartments. including. Drawings C001 — C0121 L001 — L006, and A001A — A006, all 21 ' . , PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 1 6, 2004 prepared by HOL T Architects, P.C., Trowbridge & Wolf, Landscape .Architects, and T.G. Miller, P.C., and dated 9 January 2004, and 6.. The Town Planning staff has recommended a negative determination of environmental significance with respect to the proposed rezoning, Site Plan and Subdivision Approval, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board, having received no objections from other Involved Agencies, hereby establishes itself. as Lead Agency to coordinate the environmental review of the. above- described actions, and AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED: That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination of environmental significance in accordance with the New York State Environmental Quality Review Act for the. above referenced. actions as proposed and, therefore, a Draft Environmental Impact Statement will not be required. A vote on the motion resulted as follows: AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Mitrano, Howe. AYS: Talty. ABSENT: Thayer. The motion was declared to be carried. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Preliminary Subdivision Approval, Preliminary Site Plan Approval, and a recommendation to the Town Board regarding the Zoning Change for the proposed residential development, Overlook at West Hill, located at 1290 Trumansburg Road (NYS Route 96), Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 244-14.2, Residential District R -15. The proposal consists of two phases of residential development, consisting of 128 affordable rental apartment units in 16 buildings and a community center in Phase i on a 24.5 +/- acre portion of Tax Parcel No. 24444.2, and .15 lots for single- family, market rate homes in Phase 11 on about 19 acres of the subject property. The current owners would retain. about 5 acres containing the existing medical practice fronting on Trumansburg Road. The applicant is currently requesting consideration of rezoning the 24.5 +1- acres for affordable rental apartments from R -15 Residence to MR Multiple Residence and preliminary subdivision and site plan approval for the Phase I apartments. Song Ja Kyong, Owner; Aris Investments, Applicant; PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Grace Chiang, HOLT.Architects and Peter Trowbridge, Trowbridge &Wolf, Landscape Architects, Agents. Chairperson Wilcox - It is 8:37 .p.m. Do you wish to make a presentation with regard to site plan, subdivision and zoning recommendation? Mr. Papamichael — No. We will answer any questions that you have Chairperson Wilcox — As is often the case. We spent a lot of time on the site plan as part of the environmental review. Board Member Hoffmann — I feel that is okay. Chairperson. Wilcox — Sometimes that is the right thing to do. Are the questions that the board would like to ask with regard to site plan, subdivision or the zoning recommendation or would you like. to open it up to the. _public to hear their comments? There being none, we will give the public an opportunity to speak. Hands go up quickly. Ladies and gentlemen, for those of you who have. been here before, this will be somewhat redundant; we ask that you step to the microphone. We ask that you give us your name and address. This board has not in past - imposed time limits and we don't wish to do so. We ask that you use your time efficiently. We ask that you address the questions before the board, which are the rezoning, the recommendation for rezoning, the subdivision and the proposed site plan. .Having said that, I will take the gentleman with the white hair on the aisle. Sidney Merritt, 127 Woolf Lane - The request for rezoning by Overlook has been under the guise of affordable housing. The truth of the matter is that they are in it for profit. I haven't heard one thing said about profit. I don't know why it is a dirty Word, but they are in this to make money: My feeling is that is shouldn't be done at the expense of the residents of West Hill: Now, the developer has cited some negative aspects of this development on West Hill and the residents of the Town of Ithaca, but they tend to really minimize this in their. favor and I just found a typical one being your traffic engineer, who spent 80 percent of his presentation talking about his 30 years of experience and not once said anything to the listening public here about the negative aspects that Overlook is going to create to the traffic and also to the safety aspects. Now he quoted a lot of things, none of which we had access to. So we really don't know what the implications are in terms of the added traffic. Now, he refuted some of the studies that were made, but that is the only thing that we know. So don't really know what the added loading of traffic .that Overlook is going to create because it was never made public to the listening audience here tonight. Is that correct? I didn't here it. Chairperson Wilcox — Please address the board. 29 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Mr. Merritt — I'm sorry. Now in the February 20th issue of the Ithaca Journal, the reporters say that TCAT was never consulted by Overlook and that they had no intentions of entering that property and this means to me that residents that require public transportation are going to have to go down the roadside to access it. That means that the residents of Overlook have to go down Route 96 to get on the buses. They have off 96 to get off the buses and then cross Route 96 and I think that is dangerous. I don't know. He cited...prior.to Overlook that safety was never a consideration in terms. of traffic on 96, this was comforting. So why add to it by putting in this development. I ask the board if for the accidents that may occur to the people that are standing by Route 96, who is going'to have the responsibility for them? Certainly it won't be the developer. Will it be the Town of Ithaca? I ask the question. Chairperson Wilcox — Your question maybe addressed to the Town Board as they set policy. Mr. Merritt — The Planning Board will not answer, then I take. Chairperson Wilcox — I am not giving you an answer. They are welcome to if they want to. Mr. Merritt — Okay; but I asked the question. Mr. Kanter — I think the board would prefer not to have a response question and answer session. They would like to hear from the public and then as appropriate will respond later. Isn't that the way we usually do it? Board Member Hoffmann — Yes. Mr. Merritt — As I looked at the second site plan, I may have been mistaken, but I didn't see any sidewalks in Overlook. But what I did see with. cars on the same street parked back to back on both sides of the street,. which raised a couple of questions. Now does that mean that individuals and residents there are going to have to between the cars to get access to the street so they can walk down to Route 96. If the sidewalks are there, then I'm mistaken. But is. does create a safety problem with in the Overlook engineer make any mention of this. winter is as severe as it is this yea roads if there are cars parked in the I raise. Also, I understand that there that runs diagonally. across this pro Overlook project. I understand that mistaken in stating that. complex in itself and I didn't hear the safety Also, it occurred to me that if next year the r, who is going to take care of plowing the E treets on both sides. So it is a question that is a water right -of -way from the water tower perty that is now covered by houses in the is going to have to be moved, but I may be 30 1 1 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 I only attended last meeting and in that last meeting, I believe the residents of West Hill. were virtually 100 percent opposed to the Overlook project. 1 see the negatives far outweigh any of the positives if there are any positives that would accrue to we the residents of West Hill. Therefore, I urge the board to vote against it and that is the some total of my discussion. Doria Higgins, 2 Hillcrest Drive — One aspect of the increase in traffic, which has not been discussed here, is the difficulty in which the ambulances have in already getting to the hospital. Before the last meeting here, I found Bangs Ambulance and asked if they were going to say something and they said no they weren't taking a stand publicly, but they said that they were already having very great difficulty in getting the ambulances up to the hospital and leaving the hospital with patients who had to be taken to other facilities like down in Sayre. I think that is something that has not been discussed here and I think it is crucially important. I'm surprised that the hospital is supporting this in view of that particular fact; maybe they are not aware of it. I . Another point I would like to make is that I read Martha Armstrong's letter to you in which she discussed John Bowers' memorandum to you at the last meeting and I'd like to bring to your attention that she said Mr. Bowers in his points. one and two accurately reflects the reports presentation of the distribution of rental housing prices. I hope that you will take that into consideration and not let someone else pull it to pieces as was done here today about another thing. One other thing, years ago when I was briefly in planning in Washington D.C. in the 1950s it had then been researched and publicly discussed that development does not bring increased revenue to municipalities. In fact, because .of it being the increase in services, which have to, be an upkeep of the development, that taxes for the citizens in the municipality inevitably go up ,with new development and that is something to keep in mind. Thank you very much. Chairperson Wilcox — Yes, you. My favorite person. Joel Harlan, Newfield — I have been to many, many meetings. This sounds like Burger king, the issue on East Hill Plaza, the same thing. All, you know, you know small drive through businesses. The way I see, they just tellin' ya they don't want it in their back yard. I mean you are being .very, very intimidated by these people. Every place that I have been to at meetings including Lansing, and the City, they are henpecking and they are being fussy because they don't want any development in this Town. Throughout the whole valley, I'm glad Alan Cohen stuck to his guns because it sounds like you guys are not going to stick to your guns and get this in. They're backing you up against a wall and Alan stuck it out and now Carolyn has to find the same antidevelopers shoving it down her throat about stopping this growth. What it is to these people and around the City, which I love, I thrive on it is active terrorism. 31 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 1.6, 2004 Chairperson Wilcox — Joel... Mr. Harlan — I'm all for it. They've got fear in their backyard of growth. What it is, is the Twilight Zone and Nightmare on Elm Street. All this is coming down their back yard everywhere it is they don't want growth. I'm all for growth in this Town because you are going to need it, especially. affordable housing. You can send a clear message throughout the County, just like you said, but you got to say it on the front page not on the back page so everybody can read it that this Town and all the other towns including the City of Ithaca has got to work on affordable housing because a lot of people are going out homeless. They cannot afford to live like this. These people want $250 a month for a one - bedroom house. Dryden Hotel ... is $450 per month. So how can you get down to $250 for one bedroom? J 'm tellin' ya, you guys gotta approve of it because they are going to shove it down your throat until you give in to them and the next development is going to be the same thing and the next development after that. Whatever you do in .this Town and down on the Ithaca. Like I told the Common. Council,. it has been read in the Ithaca Times. I'm like some hero trying to bring all this development in, but I'm also a terrorist, .terrorizing the anti - developers and I'm loving every minute of it. I love it when the people rally like this all through out the area. I want to shove it down their throat because they are shoving it down your throat and they are telling you we don't want it in our backyard and I love to see this in their backyard. To me, they are living it right now.. They are sweatin'. whether you guys ... hopin' you guys deny this project because right now it is Nightmare on Elm Street and the Twilight Zone. Anything that goes around they can't control the power and they feeling powerless that is what you call, what they are going through right now is twilight zone. I'm all. for it. I think you guys ought to vote for it. Board Member Mitrano — I think we got the point. Chairperson Wilcox - Great timing. Thank you, Joel. The gentleman in the middle. Keith Brown, Virgil NY — I have been living in Tompkins County my entire life and just recently moved out there. Currently I have the opportunity to work.with a lot of low- income individuals in Tompkins County. I have people coming to me who are basically struggling with the issue of not being able to find affordable housing at all in the County. I sit down with them and come up with different solutions and what kind of things that they can do. I find myself always telling them the exact same thing, which is I'm going to sit here and I'm going to tell you that you need to move away from where the work is and away from downtown and out to one of the surrounding areas and I'm going to tell you this because you will find housing that your family will be comfortable in and your family cane afford because it just is not going to work out downtown. It is not going to work out in 32 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED. MARCH 16, 2004 the surrounding area in an area that you can get in very easily, but I'm going to tell you this because I'm not the one that is living with that choice. You are the one that is going to have to deal with all the consequences of being anywhere that is not central to Ithaca. I would love to have other options to give them. I'd love to have the chance to tell them there is a place that is closer and a place that they can get to the resources they need closer that is either in the Town of Ithaca or closer to the City and it seems to me that this is an option that .could fulfill that for a lot of individuals and.families. I have had the chance to do this for about two years now and it has been probably one of the best jobs I could ever ask for. Personally, though, I would love that I didn't have to do it. That people would just have the chance to live in the area and work in the area without having to worry about being able to afford it. Thank you very much for your time. Mike Thompson, 5798 RTE '14A, Dundee — I work over here in Ithaca and it takes me approximately one hour to drive here to work every day, just to get here to go to work. I find it a little personal that people are objected to building income - based housing. I make approximately $250 a week and at the gas prices today, am spending 60 of that in gas. Now, it makes it very difficult for me to live on. that kind of income when I have to drive so many miles and there is no place here that I could afford. I can't pay $800 a month in rent. I have heard objections that .this road is already unsafe. Well, that seems to be a separate issue to me. It seems that if the road is already unsafe then that needs to be fixed. This housing isn't going to change that road being unsafe. The road needs to be fixed, not the housing. The housing should. and does need to go in. My parents taught me not to run out in front of moving cars and I would expect everybody else to teach their kids the same thing. I was taught manners and. I was taught to respect me elders and I also know that most people up there are. going to be against this because that's their homes, that's the way it has been for years and they don't want it to change. This is 2004, things are changing all over, there's Lowe's going in, there's building that is going on all the time. New people, new traffic is coming, you have to keep up grading, that is just _a part of life. That is a part of life: You have to just keep changing.. That road is a hazard now and it will be, whether that project goes in or not. Something is going to have to be done. This will probably expedite something being done to that road to make it a safer road. I hear some if the people talking about it and it sounds like . they are talking about a dump going in. It's not a dump; it's a beautiful place, from what I've seen. It will be architectural landscaped and be quite attractive. It won't be a dump or a gravel pit. It's just a brush lot know. I need this job; there are not a lot of other places. This community is thriving now, when others are dying. So people are going to gravitate to this area and they're having to drive in here. When I have to drive in from a rural area that means that I can't carpool. So, each person that comes in here from a rural area is driving another car in here. If you had another local place, where I could be, then I could commute with other people and /or 33 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH-1.6,2004 public transportation. I don't have that option today. So, I just think that it would make common sense that this community is growing, whether the people on .West Hill like it or not. It has to grow some place and that road needs to be fixed and this will expedite that being done. Thank you. Eric Clay, 832 North Aurora Street — I'm here tonight as a member of the Board of the Community Foundation of Tompkins County. I am a co- author of the report on housing that was recently discussed at a public meeting on February 12th and which is referred to by Mr. Bowers and seriously misinterpreted. Martha Armstrong, in her response, is a very gracious person and she does note that Mr. Bowers accurately reflects the report's presentation of the distribution of rental housing prices, but none of the reasons for why. None of the reasons why they are what they are represented accurately. Chairperson Wilcox — If you just pull the microphone toward you that will. solve the problem. Mr. Clay — I, too, have a soft voice. As part of the Community Foundation, we a trying to sponsor conversations in the community on tough issues, where there is good information with as many of the interested stake holders as possible and because of this one misreading of our report, Mr. Bowers has created an impression that this housing would not necessarily address this problem. I can't speak to the quality of the project, but I can speak to the quality of the criticism. based on a misinterpretation of our report. Tompkins County has 14,000 people coming into the County for jobs. That is a third of our non- student work force, a third, 33 percent, 14,000 people. Only 4,000 people are going out. We have a vacancy rate in apartments that runs about four percent, which is way low because it would normally be five percent, if we have normal occupancy patterns at full occupancy, okay? There is a crunch. When there is a crunch, we have this massive number of apartments that are attempting to be rented and rented at. a median or near median crunch and that are pushing the bottom prices up for the low- income groups: There is not a lot of incentive to. improve the apartments because you know you have got a sure thing. So, we have a crunch where we over provide for the middle class segment and we don't provide for anything below it very well and we're not really providing for the high end very well, if you look at the study. If we went in and added 25 percent more housing units at the median level that would drop some of the poorer quality units down into lower income brackets, but that is a very slow process, over time. That is a problem. We haven't generated enough housing in the County, but it is not the way that Mr. Bowers is interpreted it. As you take this report and you take Martha Armstrong's rebuttal, in the Year 2000, there were 600 housing- burdened non. student households in the Town of Ithaca, over 600. This project deals with 128 households, you can do the math. 34 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16,.2004 Chairperson Wilcox — .Thank you. I will let you go now Mr. Bowers because think that it's appropriate. I would be nice to have this topic covered all at once. John Bowers, 1406 Trumansburg Road - I'm sorry, I didn't catch your name. Mr. Clay — Eric Clay. Mr. Bowers — Harry Clay. Mr. Clay — Eric. Mr. Bowers — Eric, sorry. Well, Mr. Clay, if I heard you correctly- Chairperson Wilcox — Sir, please address the Board. Mr. Bowers — I am addressing the Board. Chairperson Wilcox — .No, you are turning around to him, please address the Board. Mr. Bowers — Mr. Clay, if I understood him correctly, said exactly what I said in my presentation last week, mainly that there is a sever shortage at the very lowest rental levels and a very severe shortage at the very highest levels, which is putting pressure on the property around the median. Now, he seems to believe that we can solve this problem by building more rental property in the median level. I think it is very clear when you look at the data that that is not going to solve the problem. What really needs to be done is to build more housing at the high end and more housing at the very lowest end. That will take off the pressure from the middle. Now, in Ms. Armstrong's comments on my Ithaca Journal article, which I only had a chance to look at this afternoon, once again, she agreed basically with what I said in my article. She had a number, of criticisms that I would like to respond to. First of all, she noted correctly that the 2000 census figures on which the data that we are all - using, was not adjusted for.inflation, of course that has to be done. If they were going to do an up to date study, they would have to do that. I would like to point out that she also, she didn't adjust incomes for inflations, so it is meaningless to jack up the figures for rent on the basis of inflation if you are not also going to take into account the fact that people are now earning more. For that reason, I think that that point is simply invalid. She also noted that the median unit in the median range would be in the range of 560.to 1010 instead of 500 to 899. Now, this is sort of harder to describe, but'we never questioned the rents in the 30 percent range, at which there will be 20 in Overlook, would be affordable. What we're disputing is that although they're cheap, they are simply not cheap enough to house people and the 10,000 - income level or under. Even if we adjusted the .figures for inflation, we might squeeze eleven one - bedroom apartments in the affordability range by $36 dollars 35 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 a month, but that is it. Nothing that she says really refutes what I said .in my article. The fact is that Overlook is going to be providing rent at the same level where the market is already saturated. Her point number four was that revised rental figures actually lower the median rent for the County to 605. In the Tompkins County Housing. Forum Report, they gave average rents at 611 if one included utilities and 580 if one doesn't. The figure that she came out with is actually lower than that. So,. it seems to me that that actually further supports what I have to say, namely that there is a glut of housing around the median. Okay, next point; she said that there are 3,860 people in Tompkins County who pay more than 30 percent of their income on housing. From that, she extrapolates that, based on the population of the Town of .Ithaca; there are 610 households who are paying over 30 percent of their incomes in.rent. Her solution, and apparently that of the Town, is to say, well, there are 610 households that are rent - challenged, therefore we should built 610 units to ensure that these people are not going to be burdened. The problem with this is that we know . nothing about the distribution of these people. All we know from the census figures is that there are 610 households who are paying more than 30 percent of their income. We don't. know how many of those are people earning 100,000, we don't know how many people of those are earning under 10,000. Without that data, it is just simply meaningless to talk about addressing affordable housing. We need to find.out what is actually going on and that is the main burden of what I had to say in my newspaper article was that the planning departments of this entire area, including the Town, the City and all the municipalities should be getting together to try to figure this out jointly instead of doing it piecemeal. You will have to forgive me because I only saw this stuff this afternoon and it's a little bit difficult to analyses it on the spot. If the Town builds, I would like to point out that I have already built 138 units in the Town of Ithaca at Linderman Creek, there's more projected and that is going to bring it up to 200. So already, the 610 housing units, at least a third of those are already being met. Now, you're asking for another 128 units. It seems to me that it would be a good idea to try and sit back and see what the effect of the already existing 138 plus however there are in the remainder of Linderman Creek have on the housing market before jumping in and trying to build another 128. In short, I didn't see anything in Ms. Armstrong's comments, which actually refuted anything that I said, in effect, In some cases her figures are actually, seem to me; to further support what I had to say. If I understand correctly, the purpose of this meeting is to recommend approval of the re- zoning of the Kyong property and I also understand that in order.to justify re- zoning the Board has to find 1.) That there is a need for the proposed Overlook project and 2.) That the existing and probably future character of the neighborhood will not be adversely effect by it. Now, I think that the residents of this area and numerous other people that have testified and written to you has shown that the answer to the. second question is that it will 36 I PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16,.2004 definitely have adverse effects on West Hill, including greatly increased traffic, heighten risks to pedestrians, doubling of the pedestrians on the Trumansburg Road, etcetera, etcetera. I don't think that there is any doubt of that. The second question is, is Overlook necessary, and here is the market report that was prepared by the developers, that's the crucial thing. Now, I've spend considerable time and effort trying to understand this market study, analyzing the data that has been made available by the Community Foundation, and it still appears to me, crystal clear, what the problem is, I stated it earlier, there's too few units at the very lowest lever, too few at the high, that's putting the pressure in the middle, so let's build units at the high end and the low end. Crucially, will Overlook really alleviate the problem? No, as I pointed out, it's not going. to provide on single rental unit at 250 or less where the need is most acute. There will be 20 units at.the 30 percent level; otherwise the rents at Overlook are going to range between 496 and 827, placing them squarely in the median range. The second crucial question is are Overlook's apartments really affordable compared to what is currently available 'on the market? Now, here the developers claim that the average market rent for a one - bedroom apartment is $820 for example: That makes Overlook's rent. of 600 at the 60 percent level look affordable, but that is the wrong figure to use here 'because an average is irrelevant. If you have 100 rental properties, one rents for a million dollars and the other for nothing, the average rent is 10,000 per unit, but that doesn't tell you anything about the distribution of housing. Now, we have looked into this matter as much as we can, given the limitations of time and so fourth, and what we find is that Overlooks rents are actually not cheap, given the actual costs of housing in this area. We found, for example, just by making a phone call, that at Candlewick Apartments, one of the best apartment complexes on West Hill, there are, right .now, one=. bedroom apartments available for $600. The same size apartment at Overlook is going to cost 600 plus the cost of utilities. It is actually less to rent this one bedroom apartment at Candlewick than it will be at Overlook and it's available right now. Another serious problem with the applicant's market study is that, a very troubling aspect of it, is that I have been unable to find out how the developers calculated the average rental figures that they. give in their study in which they compare obviously that's crucial because, you know,. if you are claiming that the average market rent is extremely high and then it shows that the rent that you are proposing to charge is lower than that, then, of course, it makes it look affordable. Nowhere in this study is there any indication of this . data on which their average market rates are. based. There. is no explanation of the methodology that used in arriving at these figures. Did they conduct surveys? Do they have access to some other source of housing data that I don't know about and, that no body else knows about? I really am offended by the fact that this study doesn't even begin to approach the level of rigor and accuracy that would be required in order to really demonstrate a need for this. kind of housing that they are proposing. I think there are indications in the report that they are even aware of that the rental properties in the area are approaching the saturation point. There are indications that they are aware of that. They have made it quite 37 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 clear that they are intending to rent to graduate students and in fact, there are already ten graduate student families at Linderman Creek. I don't think that we should be using tax credit - financed apartments to support. graduate students. That's not the job of the Town of Ithaca that is the job Cornell University if it is the job of anybody. They also anticipate that the tertiary market from outside the Tompkins County is going . to contribute approximately, 10 to 20 percent of the tenant base. I am quoting from their market study. Is a development. which has roughly 25 percent if we add together the graduated student and the tertiary market, is a development whose residents are either Cornell graduate students or people from outside Tompkins County, who are only moving here because of the low rent, is that going to benefit the Ithaca community? Does that justify a major zoning change that will totally change the character of West hill? I don't think so.. Nobody who lives here thinks so. I really believe that this is a misguided project. It simply is not going to accomplish what it has claimed that it will accomplish: I think that the Board should ask themselves whether there are feasible alternatives to Overlook. Are there other ways less invasive that would have less drastic effect on our neighborhood and other neighborhoods, that we could accomplish these goals? Incidentally, I would add at this point, that this kind of project specifically Violates the current HUD guidelines that recommend against concentrating lower income housing and. large developments a single geographic area. Many low- income families have difficulty finding housing, not because the apartments are unavailable, everybody at the Affordable Housing Conference I was at agreed on this. Very often what happens is that they simply can't afford the first month's rent, the final month's rent, and they have trouble passing the credit checks and so fourth that most landlords require. I found out at the conference that there are some funds available through the Tompkins County home - ownership. program to help renters in this situation, but why couldn't the municipality of Ithaca and all the others, at minimal expense, most of the money would come back, maybe you would lose a .few bucks to people who welched, but, you know, that's not going to be a huge amount. You could provide, at very little expense, additional funds for this purpose. I also discovered in reading an article in the Ithaca Journal on August 30th that the Town's of Dryden, Caroline, Groton; Lansing and Enfield have secured funds with the help of .Better Housing for Tompkins for State and Federally funded housing rehabilitation grants and mobile home replacement programs. I also found out that the Town of Ithaca has not applied for a single grant of this sort. Why not? Why couldn't we apply for grants of that sort instead of getting into these huge housing projects? Another possibility: it has come to my attention recently that INHS owns a lot of housing. I'd like to know if INHS rents to people with incomes of under $10,000. 1 think they should. I also think that they, instead of returning the houses that they currently refurbish selling them at market value, they should insist that c: PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 they be. re -sold at an appropriate fraction of the market values, thus building up a stock of low - income rental properties. The Village of Trumansburg recently — Chairperson Wilcox — Can I ask you to be considerate to the fact that there are many other people who wish to speak? Mr. Bowers — I will finish, but this is an important issue. You are making a decision that affecting the lives of everybody who lives here. Chairperson Wilcox — Sir, sir. Please be polite to everyone else in the audience who wishes to speak this evening. Mr. Bowers — Are you saying that I am being impolite? Chairperson Wilcox — No, I'm saying that if you= Mr. Bowers —What are you. saying? Chairperson Wilcox — I am saying that if you could be concise and to the point and make your remark so I can let others have their chance to speak. Mr. Bowers — This is a difficult issue and I'm afraid that you can't summarize all the factors that go into it in a few short sentences. Now, if you want to tell me to shut up, go ahead. Chairperson Wilcox — I don't want to tell you to shut up. Mr. Bowers — Well, you are. Chairperson Wilcox — No, I am asking you to please be concise and finish your remarks. That's all I'm asking you to do. Mr. Bowers — I object to this treatment. I want that on the record and I object to the kinds of statements that were which certain members of the Boai is simply a not- in -my- back - yarder. suggest that you listen to what the by these kinds of remarks, nade at the. last hearing., the last meeting, in i implied that everybody in this neighborhood If you want to have a public hearing, then I public has to say. I am really, really. offended So, my conclusion, is that the developers have failed completely to demonstrate the need for a project such as Overlook. I don't think it's going to do a (profanity) thing to help affordable housing. I think that it's simply going to add more apartments in the median level, where we already have enough apartments. I don't think that it's going to help. I also think that it may well exacerbate the situation and I'd like to conclude this by asking, directly, the �01 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 developers and /or the Planning Board two questions: I want to know what data the market -value rent figures that they sited in their market analysis to justify the need for these apartments were based on. Where is the data? And I want to know what methodology was used in arriving at these figures. Without that information, there is simply no way of evaluating the claims that are made in their market report. I would urge the Board not to make any further decision on this issue on this issue until they also know that. This is far to important a decision to simply take for granted figures that were drawn out of the air, as far as I can tell. There is nothing in the market report to indicate where they go their figures from and I want an answer to that question. Thank you very much. Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you sir. . I. Board Member Hoffmann — I have a question for you Mr. Bowers, if I might ask. A very good friend of mine, who I trust absolutely, called me today because an employee of hers lives at Candlewick Apartments and she..had seem what you had wrote in the paper and she was very puzzled by the figure of $600 a month rent that you mentioned in the article because this woman lives in a one - bedroom apartment at Candlewick and she pays $815 a month. As far as she knew; $800 was the lowest rent that you could pay there. My question to you is, was. there something special about this apartment that you had quoted a $600 rent for, as far as you know? Mr. Bowers — Yes. Apartments that have a lake view cost more than ones that are the ground floor. So, the figure that was sited, which was obtained directly from the manager of the project, was for a ground floor, one - bedroom apartment. Board Member Hoffmann — And how many such apartments are there? Mr. Bowers — I don't know. My point is that this is the kind of information that we should be collecting. We need to know how many apartments are available. Incidentally, I would like to say that within the week and a half since I last appeared before this Board, numerous people have come up to tell me that they are either renting apartments that are no more expensive than the ones that are available at Overlook or they know people who are or they are living in apartments that cost less than the ones at Overlook will cost. I, myself, know, a former colleague of mine owners a duplex in the City of Ithaca, she is renting a two - bedroom apartment for $650, all utilizes included. There are apartments out there and we simply don't know. It's all very well to talk about, use these census figures, but I would think that good planning would involve going out, finding out what the facts are, finding out what the real need is and then addressing it. What adopt this reactive position? Somebody comes along and says, "Oh, we can take care of your affordable housing problem" and you are just simply "okay, fine you do it." 40 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY.26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Board Member Conneman — Would you collect that data for us so that we can check. on it? Mr. Bowers — Which data? Board Member Conneman.— The data that says that you can find rentals for 600 or 500 or 800 or whatever it happens to be. Mr. Bowers — Look, I'm not in a position to .do this.. l don't run a. planning department. This is my point, let's go out and Board Member Conneman — You could ask everyone in this audience to call you or leave .a message on you answering machine and say "I rent an apartment for $600 at blank, blank, blank and my name is such and such." Chairperson Wilcox — We don't want to get into an argument. Mr. Bowers — I am not in the planning business. Board Member Hoffmann — Mr. Bowers, you have answered my question, thank you. Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you. Martha? Woman's voice from the audience — There is a young woman with small children, who wants to speak. They probably want to go home. It's a school night. Chairperson Wilcox — You're right, it is a school night. Thank you Martha. Jasmine Cubero, 123 Farm Street - Before I begin talking about my experience, I would like to defend Ithaca Neighborhood Housing Services because they do rent to people who have under $10,000 income a year. I know that because I work for Tompkins Community Action for the section 8 program. I currently take care of the waiting list and I see the number of pre - applications that come into the office every single day. On these pre - applications there are several options on the backside of the pre - application, it says "Are you homeless ?" "Are you paying more than 50 percent of your income towards rent ?" "Are you living in substandard housing ?" "Do you have a disability ?" "Are you requesting special consideration because of your disability ?" The percentage that people. check mark the homeless option is very high, in Ithaca. In Tompkins County, I shouldn't say Ithaca, but Tompkins Count. Linderman Creek, I understand that they have affordable housing. Yes that's true, right, but do you also know that they have a waiting list. That this waiting list is not two months, it is not three months, it is not six months, it's two years. One to two years. Now, had they not built Linderman Creek, where would have everyone in those apartment complexes been, where 41 . I PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16,.2004 would they go. I get calls from the Department of Social Services, all the time, every single day and the question is "Can you help them, do you a have vouchers open for them ?" My answer, "I'm sorry, no we don't, we have a waiting list." You want to know what the time from is? The time frame is 12 to 18 months. That's a long time for a family. That's a long time for a single person who is homeless, living in a car. That's a long time for a family of three or two or four or five to live at a friend's house, parent's house, in an abusive relationship that they want to get out of. I would like to see more affordable housing. I would.like to say to whoever calls my office, saying "I need affordable housing I. want to say " Well, guess what, yes there is affordable housing and here's the number, give them a cal, I don't think the waiting list is that long." That's what I want to say. Now, I know that we have a short time here, but I'm not only talking for Tompkins Community Action and not only speaking for the affordable units that we are talking about, but I 'am also speaking on behalf of the tenants. I have not heard, from the time that I walked in that door, the benefit of the tenants that my live there, or the families that will be living there. I_ stared a family eleven. years ago. That was a young age for me, but I chose that. I was against abortion. and I wanted to be responsible. I couldn't afford an apartment. I. didn't have a job. I had nothing at all, but today, with the help of Section 8... Chairperson Wilcox — Do you want to take .a second? Ms. Cubero — I just want you to know that if it weren't for Section 8 who gave me the opportunity, I wouldn't be where I am today. I have. a good family, I am a mother, I finished college, and. I have a wonderful apartment with a great neighbor who is also a. single mother of three kids and also a participant of section 8. If it wasn't for section 8, 1 wouldn't be able to afford housing. My family would have been torn apart. I wouldn't have finished college because of stress. Who knows what could have happened. If it wasn't for the opportunity for affordable housing through section 8, 1 wouldn't be very happy today, single and happy. So please consider affordable housing. I understand that there is a safety issue. I understand that there is a traffic issue. There. are ways around that, I know there are and we have the professionals to do so. We -have the expertise. We are fortunate now more than ever before; we have them to make this happen. I want to thank you for your time and forgive me for being emotional. This truly is my story and I wanted to let you know. Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you. I ask that you hold your applause until the end, just like I did for everyone else. Martha Robertson, 1655 Ellis Hollow Road — That's a hard act to follow. I want to thank her; it's hard to tell those stories. I want to thank you and I want to that the whole Town of Ithaca for the work you've already done for affordable housing, but we've only just begun. 42 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 I'm Chair of the Health and Human Services Committee of the Tompkins County Legislature and last June, we started a study of housing and homelessness in Tompkins County. I had no idea what we would learn. This is just one of my folders about housing and homelessness. Nobody is making up numbers. here. This is a crisis. This is an absolute crisis in Tompkins County: Jasmine talked about Section 8. The proposal from the President for this year freezes Section 8; there will be no new vouchers. In 1976 there were 400,000 new vouchers for Section 8 that went down to 34,000, this is nationwide, in 2003. In the proposed budget there will be no new vouchers and, in fact, there is a 1.6 billion dollar cut to federal housing programs proposed by President Bush. We are. seeing tremendous dislocation, tremendous despair. I just heard on Monday night a report from the Learning Web and a group of homeless youth who actually did a survey of other homeless youth. They surveyed 165 young . people from ages 24 down to thirteen who are living on the own in Tompkins County. The survey was done last January. Where do those kids.live? They are living with friends. They bounce around. Sometimes they go to the shelter. They spend time in the jails. They spend times on rooftops. One talked about a box on Route 79. They live under bridges. They break into buildings and sleep on the stairways. They sleep in Dewitt Mall. This is our future. We're not talking about homelessness in this project,.but I like to think of this issue as a slinky, if you pull it at one end, it reverberates throughout the whole rest of the market. Sure there is a need for higher end rental. In fact, the Chamber of Commerce first got interested in the housing problem because they heard from CEO's of new businesses that they were having trouble recruiting high end executives because there were no choices for them for the kinds of houses that they want in Tompkins County. Well, I have confidence that the market will take care of that, but the market simply can't take care of affordable units. Contrary to what Mr: Bowers has said, these are affordable units. In fact, if the rents were proposed to be 200 or less, I imagine there would be even more outcry about "those people" in our neighborhood. Well, those people are already in.our neighborhood. They are already waiting on you at Wegmans, they're cleaning your offices, they're driving your school buses, they're teaching your kids, and they are working in your County offices. These are people all around us whose incomes have not kept up with the price of housing. I love the ideas of towns getting together around the County and talking about where we should put affordable housing. I'm all for that. In fact, the County has embarked on a comprehensive plan, the draft is nearly ready, it will be brought out to communities beginning in April and May this year and housing issues are a big' section of the draft comprehensive plan. We would love to be able to convenient that kind of a conversation. I think the Town of Ithaca is clearly a leader in this area. As the Board here knows, the County has no land use authority. We can encourage municipalities to think about land use issues and 43 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 2692004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 how zone and how they provide for our citizens. So, that's a suggestion I would love to follow through. Maybe Mr. Bowers can help us on that. Questions about TCAT. At one of your earlier meeting, you had a letter from Barbara Blanchard, my colleague on the Legislature and the representative for the district that you are talking about. She has been on the TCAT Board for years. She is a firm supporter of this project. I have no doubt that with Barbara's help. TCAT will be able to make whatever the adjustments are that are needed. I would also like to address this question of are there loose services and expenses associated with new development. That is true, so the property taxes gained from new residential development can sometimes be overwhelmed by the costs of new roads, new school bus routes, new emergency service, however this positioned so that there will be very, very little impact in terms of new services. It's already on public transportation; it's already on a main thoroughfare. It seems to me that .they have thought very carefully about how to place this project so that there will be minimum impact on the required services. Finally, I would like to respond to Mr. Talty's question about assessments and taxes. I think if I turned around and asked everybody in the room how many are concerned about the assessments on their houses, I bet a lot of hands would go up. Assessment by the County is full market value of your property and it is completely and directly related to supply and demand. The longer we have a housing shortage in Tompkins County, the longer your assessments are going to go up, those are directly related. The issue of taxes, well we spend almost a million dollars in local money for the emergency shelter last year. That's almost four percent on your tax rate right there. If we could do something about homelessness, we wouldn't need to spend that much money just to keep people off the street. Last year we set another record. The homeless bed nights. have been going up since 1997. Last year we set another record of 15,300 bed nights in the shelters. That's 42 people a night and that doesn't count the people who aren't in the shelter and there are a lot of them. Everybody, of course if worried about traffic, well, as somebody said before, the further people have.to live from where they work, the more traffic we have. It's as simple as that. The Town of Ithaca is absolutely the right place for this kind of development. It is close to infrastructure, it is close to where people work, it is close to the bus routes. The City is working on new housing projects; they are close, to built out. This is really the right place for this to go. I deeply appreciate your consideration to this and I hope you will support it tonight. Thank you. Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you Martha. Doria, you have already spoken. The lady behind you. Heather Weiss, 105 Dubois Road — I live on the corner of Dubois and Trumansburg Road. MA PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Chairperson Wilcox —'Can I get you to pull that up close, that way the people behind you can hear too. Ms. Weiss — I have lived there 20 years. I have raised my daughter there and the first thing I will say to you is that in that 20 years, she.has not been allowed to walk on Trumansburg Road because of the traffic. It is just not safe for. kids. I think if nothing else, what is happening here and in the paper today and I hope in the future, is a discussion around how you help people who need affordable housing in this community. I served for a dozen .years on the Board of the Committee for Boston Public Housing in Boston. It was set up to take Boston public housing .out of receivership because it did such a poor job of housing in Boston. I learned a great deal from that experience: I also, in my daily life, do research on things that support low- income children and families. So, I know a fair amount about services and I know about housing. I am amazed and I thank you all for. taking a look at what many of us have written and thinking about this and I hope that you will continue to think about the affordable housing issues. As public servants, for which I respect you, you have a responsibility to think about the issues that we're asking you to think about. I've looked at the Overlook stuff, I've listen to the discussions and I have come to the conclusion that it is simply not a safe place for kids and families. There will be over a hundred children at Overlook; I don't think they will have a safe place to live. There are many other places that this kind of housing can be located in Tompkins County and in the Town of Ithaca, including not far from where I live. That housing could be located in a place that is not on one of the busiest roads in and out of the community. So, there are alternative places for this kind of housing and I wouldn't have any problem with them being close to me. My problem is around the safety issues. You ask any low- income mother with small children where would she prefer to live. It's probably not on one of the busiest streets in and out of Ithaca: She probably also wants to live in a place where there are sidewalks and other kinds of safety features, more . amenities than I think this kind of development is affording the families that would live at Overlook. Second point I would make is, there has .been major research done in this Country in the last 20 years on the characteristics of affordable housing that promote the human, as well as housing options, human development as well as a housing option of low- income families. The controlled program in Chicago began that in the 1970's. The results of moving people from high concentrations of public housing out into mixed and higher- income neighborhoods were such that the feds put money into the moving to opportunity experiment in the early nineties. That experiment continues to go on and it shows that families that move out of concentrations of low- income people into mixed neighborhoods do better 45 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16,.2004 in multiple ways; they're kids are more likely to stay in school, they have better personal safety, their mental and physical health increases. This is the data from HUD websites, independent researchers; it's an experiment with treatment and controls. It shows that when you. disperse low- income people into decent housing around a community, as opposed to concentrating them in low- income housing projects, they do much better. They have higher - quality housing and there are lots of other positive . human development outcomes. for those kids and those parents as a result of that kind of housing policy. In a progressive community like Ithaca, there is no reason why we can't have a housing policy that takes into account this kind of research. If you were to talk to low- income mothers with kids in this community, my bet is that they would tell you, as I suspect the previous lady would, that she would prefer. to live in an apartment, next to another mom in Fall Creek and have her kids go to the Fall Creek School, rather .than live in a low- income housing project: So, if you were to do a survey, which I strongly recommend you do of the folks that you would like to help, my bet is that their preference would be to be disbursed around the community, to have the opportunity to buy housing and get that kind of equity and if they can't do that, to live around the community and integrate into .the community, as opposed to be clustered in high- density. low= income housing. I have said and I think that many people from the area where live would agree, that as a citizen of the Town of Ithaca and Tompkins County, .appreciate the attempt to try to create more affordable housing, but I also think that ought to be mixed with progressive housing policy and that means.policies that means policies that truly provide affordable housing. and housing solutions that are safe for children and families and that support life chances of low- income children and families. We have'the possibility of doing that; the Tompkins County Community Foundation has shown leadership by bringing this issue to the table. think we need to let that play out and I think we need to come up with. more progressive housing solutions, than are suggested by this particular project and 1, for one, would certainly be happy to help do that. Board Member Mitrano — With your experience, I am sure that you .understand that the role of this Board,.as an earlier speaker said, it's reactive, we are not a boy that is voted in by citizens and we are not in a position to affirmative, as you have recommended and probably quite rightly so, set housing policy for Tompkins County. Given our role tonight, by law, Jonathan outlined what that is, we are given an application, and we have criteria by which we review that application, that's what we do tonight. You're saying that, on the basis that what should be a policy, that we are in no positions to control, we should vote this down tonight? Ms. Weiss — I am saying that there are major health issues, major safety issues in placing the housing where you want to place it. ER PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Board Member Mitrano — Where you wants to place it? Ms. Weiss — Where this development would occur in the Town of Ithaca will bring with it, as a number of people have said, Mr. Talty, Mr. Conneman and even people who are developing this project, the traffic engineer, have indicated there are major safety issues in placing housing. It seems to me that that's within your preview. I also think it's within the preview of the Town Board to work. with other people in the community, as several people who have spoken tonight have suggested should be the case, to try to create decent affordable. housing that .meets the standards of progressive housing policy and while that may not be on your plate, it perhaps is on the Town Boards plate to begin to be more corrective in those types of things. So, for example, were there to be a reasonable number of housing units for low- income people on the proposed property, I for example, would have not problem with that. Board Member Mitrano — I don't disagree with you at all. My question is that your advise to us is that we should vote this down because of the safety issue? Ms. Weiss — I don't think it's a safe place for families with young children and began my comments by saying I raised a daughter on Trumansburg Road and she was not allowed to walk on that road. I walked up and down it putting out circulars for this meeting. I can tell you it's not a safe place to be. Several of you, who have talked about walking up and down Trumansburg Road, walk up and. down it, stand in front of the hospital and look at what happens to the traffic and think about low- income moms with small kids and their safety. Board Member Mitrano — Where does safety fall into the criteria that we have to meet? Mr. Barney = It is a criterion. Board Member Conneman — You said that you live at Dubois Road and Trumansburg Road Ms. Weiss — I live on the corner of Dubois Road and Trumansburg. Board Member Conneman — Where would you say would be a safe place up there? You said that you- Ms. Weiss — I think that there of rural areas around the Torn can find spots for affordable you're not clustering the poor where you could locate this much better safety features are roads off of Trumansburg Road. There are lots m of Ithaca on West Hill and elsewhere, where you housing, small clusters of affordable housing, so altogether in high density places. There are places type of housing, off main roads, that would have than this particular proposed one. I'll make a 47 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16,2004 prediction, I think within five years of this housing being completed there will be one or more deaths at that intersection and I hope it's not a kid. Chairperson Wilcox — Does the .white- haired lady want to speak. For the members of the.public, this is my mother. Voice of white - haired lady — And Fred didn't ask me to come and speak. Chairperson Wilcox — Name and address please. Jemma Macera, 125 West Green Street — I am actually here because I am favor of the housing. I am a native Ithacan and I live in my family home where I grew up and I've been .aware most of my life that the working class has not been able to afford to live in Ithaca and I think they are more important than other types of people because they clear our roads and they. build our houses and they feed our children in college and they do the work that we don't want to do, they pick up our garbage, they should have a right to live here. I would hope that, those who live out of Town, those who have to commute would actually be able to rent those apartments. As one man said, they need to live here. I have a question for the developers; copper water pipes can be toxic to our bodies, our brains. We should have cast iron, I know it's more expensive, but in the long run, it's less expensive. Chairperson Wilcox — Mom, face us. Ms. Macera - I am wondering if when you pass this resolution, that you might ask them to make sure that the apartments are healthy for everyone and that they do change the piping or plumbing. If it's true that it's not safe on Trumansburg Road, then why don't people see it as an opportunity and as a blessing .and address that issue and deal with it rather than just cross it off. Ithaca has a wonderful history of helping people. My house is part of the Underground Railroad. In 1968 1 joined an organization that integrated the City of Ithaca. As far as needing a damage deposit and last month's rent, we got DSS to come up with them, I believe or we came up with them. I've forgotten exactly how we did that, but we did. I was in many low- income.. family houses and their houses are cleaner than middle class people's houses are today. People with income buy folk art and you know what it costs, I don't know why you can have people who design those and make the folk art live near you. Chairperson Wilcox — Can I ask you to stop for a minute so that we can change the tape? PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Ms. Macera — I think I'll just leave it there.] had a lot of other things that I wanted to say, but because it's late, I think I'll just leave it there. Thank you very much Fred. Chairperson Wilcox — Doria, I am not going to call on you; please don't raise your hand. If there's time at the end, I may allow you — I must give everyone a chance to speak. Board Member Talty — Fred, policy dictates, right, that we go longer. than ten o'clock. Chairperson Wilcox — We normally end at ten. I don't know if. you were here at the time when .I kind of surveyed the Board before the meeting and said can we go to 10:30. I'm sorry; you may not have been here at that point. Is it okay with you? I think the comments were no later than 10:30. Thank you very much. Celia. Bowers, 1406 Trumansburg Road — I would like to preface my remarks by saying that I thought that some of the other speakers were very moving and I, personally, would like to say that I have already told this Board that if I felt this was safe for 100 children, 101 children that this development plans to support, that I would withdrawal my opposition, in spite of the fact that I think it is an ill. conceived and badly designed plan and I don't think it addresses the basic problem. I think it is an excuse because it is quite obvious that.all the people who. have talked, they have talked about the homeless, they've talked about children who have ran away from home having no where to stay. They have talked about having no money and being a single parent. This development is not going to help these people. We need housing at the lowest level. This is , an excuse to make us all feel good, but you are not going to help the people who need help and I have to say that, like my neighbor Heather, I would not oppose truly affordable housing for those who need it. I do agree with her that this is the wrong site. I would like to also address Mr. Conneman's concerns about TCAT and I'd like to point out that whether TCAT comes into this proposed development or not, is really not going to solve the problem. There are projected to be 35 teenagers living there. Now, I don't know how many of you are parents, but 'I have three kids and I am absolutely certain that children are going to want to access downtown. When does TCAT stop running? The last bus leaves form downtown at 6:30 on weekdays and 5:00 on Sundays. There are three buses. on Sunday, three, that's it, okay? Now, if you think a teenager is not going to want to go to the cinema with his or her friends, jostling along down the road after dark ... I can't conceive that you would really think that. I did ask that you walk the road, in fact, a friend of mine and I were driving down Bundy today and what did we see? We saw an accident. One car was slightly damaged, one car was really quite badly damaged and where was it? It was off on the median, it had swung in a circle. If S1 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 2.6, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 there had been a child there, that child would have been. dead. There was another car there, so the other car was slightly damaged. Children are not cars. I really beg you, don't put it there, and put it above my house. We're being told all the time that because we oppose this, we oppose low- income housing. That is not true. We live here, we know it is not the right place for 100 kids, be they right, be they poor, be they black, be they white, be they purple, they have a right to have safe place to live. Okay, now, I'm sorry, I feel strongly about that. I would also like to address the traffic issue because I think what I.wrote have been misinterpreted. I will cut that down a bit because you have it in writing. The Site Impact Traffic Evaluation that SRF and Associated used as a base line for calculating traffic volume, okay? Which they said was irrelevant, but traffic, volume is not irrelevant, was a figure of 8,313 vehicles per day, which was recorded by the New York State Department of Transportations NYDOT at the Perry City Road in 1999. Their traffic study specifically says that this is the most recent DOT count available; this turns out to be untrue. Two years later DOT made a count at '/2 mile north . of Hayts Road, which showed an. increase of 400 cars per year. When I spoke to Mr. Feak at DOT, he told me that the increase of cars seemed reasonable because there had been a lot of development in the Trumansburg area around Jacksonville and he said that an increase in volume of traffic of 200 a year was reasonable in his opinion. I think that my figure. showing the base traffic, when Overlook is completed stand up and will stand up under anybodies analysis. I would . also like to call you attention to the fact that in fact, the traffic study, okay let me read this because I will get confused " In response to requests by the Syracuse DOT for site generated traffic volumes, based on actual counts in an affordable housing . development, comparable to Overlook, SRF revised the figures presented in their September 2003 report." These revisions, which you have, which are contained on a piece of paper, dated 12/22/03 lowered by more than half SRF's original traffic figures. Astonishing, this is not me, this is all their figures and.you all have that. The reason that DOT wanted these figures, it was because the developers were pushing not to have to build a turning lane and they said no, you'll have to build: a turning lane if your project is generating these first figures. So, they produced these new figures, low and behold, for half the amount. These are not my counts, these are their counts. I find it a little odd. The raw data for the Linderman Creek counts on which these revisions were based, were not available to us. Okay, however, we suspect that they were seriously flawed because a.) The count was made in July or what not. So, I was actually the one that went and counted the traffic at Linderman Creek and I do have a few credentials for doing this because, in fact, when I was a student at Harvard, I was on full scholarship, and one of my jobs one summer was to count traffic. It was undoubtedly the most boring job I could conceive, but they did check up on us with movies and, you know, something, I did it okay. I did in fact find double the traffic that SRF. I used two hours, I used the same two hours as 50 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 theirs, I added their two hours together, I added my two hours together and that's I hat I came up with. There is one point in which they may be correct and that is, when they did the revised study that DOT requested, the revised count, based on their Linderman figures, they may have used one hour, that is hard to understand. However, I would like to point out to the Board that I don't think that this is. relevant because SRF, in their revised figures, those hand- written ones that you have, said that the hour that they counted, if it was indeed one hour and not two hours, they thought there was going to be a total of three vehicles entering Overlook in the morning hour. Now, when I was at Linderman, I counted twelve school buses. Now, I don't know where these 100 children are going to go, but they're certainly not going to school on these three buses because we have the Alternate High School and we have the High School, we have BOCES, we have two middle schools, these children could be open - enrolled like any other children, they are just the same. So, you probably have three buses from the elementary schools, you have the special ed buses, you have buses for preschool and you have some special buses for kindergarteners at this .time. Twelve buses came into Linderman Creek and yet, according to. this wonderful traffic study by this great expert, three vehicle, three, in the revised study, their figures, are going to turn into Overlook in the morning hour. By any standards, this is obscured; this has nothing to do with my count, nothing at all.. Their traffic study is absurd..Okay? I also counted pedestrians leaving Linderman Creek. I saw none in the peak morning hours at all and in the afternoon hours, there was a single pedestrian, it was a high school student, he had a pack on his back. There was a bus that went up the road and I suspect that he was dropped off a the top of the road because I found that the high school buses at night, when I could see them, and there was another car blocking when this kid came down the entrance road, that the high school buses do not pull into Linderman, they stay at the top of the road. So, I suspect that he wasn't even a pedestrian; I suspect that he was dropped off by a bus, but I don't know so I put him down as a .pedestrian. the sole pedestrian in four hours. I also counted because I was. very close to where the TCAT buses come in; I counted eleven passengers. That includes people coming into the project and getting off of the bus, people getting into the bus and leaving the project and that is eleven passengers in four hours. Okay? I also would like to reiterate that the SRF said virtually nothing about the safety of the Trumansburg Road. They had mentioned seven accidents between 1998 and 2001. They also claimed in writing, in their traffic report, that these are the only figures available for that area. This is wrong. This is just plain wrong. I am a private citizen, I called DOT, I got shuffled around to various offices and Mr. Feak is in charge of statistics for the Tompkins County area. They can access him, you can access him. He got on his computer, he was very nice, he was obviously a middle -aged gentlemen, he said "Sure we have these figures. I have to warn you Mrs. Bowers, these figures are not accurate." He said, "The problem 51 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, .2004 with traffic reporting is that there are no laws mandating that traffic accidents get reported to us, therefore we are dependant on voluntary compliance, people voluntarily offering us traffic statistics. The traffic statistics that he gave me for the one mile of road between Bundy and Hayts, in the Years 1999, 2000 and 2001 were 20, 1.9 and 19 respectively. Now, after 2001, Mr. Feak said the figures had to go to Albany so that he did not have them and I did spend a whole afternoon trying to access the figures in Albany and I was left in hyperspace. couldn't access them. Apparently they are there and maybe somebody else would have better. luck. However, Mr. Feak was very, very clear, these accidents, these accidents, which were reported. to him or to DOT in Cortland came from three sources, the State Police, the Sheriff and, in a few cases, from insurance companies because the accidents have caused so much damage. They cross - reference to make sure that one has not be reported twice. He was also adamant that this is not car -deer accident. He said he could not say absolutely that there were not one or two, but he believed that there were not because they did try and check up on that. The other point is, I think that is very, very important, the 2002 study by DOT was in fact a deer study. You know they made it sound like a traffic study, it really wasn't, and it was a deer study. Apparently, this area, basically a three -mile area down to the City and back, is. a .deer concentration area for the whole State, maybe partly because there are apple orchards there and deer love apples, okay? However, they said they came in because there were so many deer -car accidents. and these are not put on their DOT statistics, right? He said that there probably were a couple of hundred per year in that, you know, three mile stretch of road. I, myself, in November started counting deer fatalities on the side of the road and I found over 20 in less than a month. I think anybody who lives on that road will agree with. this. If a car hits a deer, this is a dangerous situation in and of itself. If a car hits a deer, the deer dies, but a deer comes towards you when you are driving, you .automatically swerve. If you swerve into the side, you could hit a child. I will withdrawal all opposition to this project, if these developers, who stand to make 20 million dollars in tax rebates, would put in a side walk because DOT will not take care of the issue, .which is that the buses stop too early to accommodate teenagers. We need something that is raised above the level of the street with these could walk in safety and a pedestrian crossing light. As I said, just today, you could check, there was an accident between two cars and one was quite badly damaged, you could see the tire mark where it swerved right across to the edge of the road. If there had been two children walking there, we would have had, not an accident, but two dead kids. It's in your hands. Their safety is in their hands. You can say we don't want affordable housing, but you know something, I can't speak for everybody, but I can tell you you're wrong. I don't care, okay? I don't care. I want the kids to be safe. Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you. IS it getting late? It's getting late for all of us, male voice from audience — I'm enjoying it. 52 I [ PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 1.6, 2004 Chairperson Wilcox — Joel, you would be. Now, having said that, let's be polite. Laura Lewis, 509 Willow Avenue — Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I am also a Board Member of Ithaca Neighborhood Housing Services. I know that there is need for affordable and quality housing and I believe renters deserve the opportunity to choose affordable and high - quality housing. Many reports have demonstrated that the quality and the stock of housing in this area is aging and I think this project offers an opportunity to work with the developer., who is very interested in working with our community, as is evidenced by the experts that have been called in, the Ithaca -based experts. I would urge the Board to approve this zoning change. I understand and I am very sympathetic to safety concerns. Living-in Fall Creek, my children had to cross Cayuga Street to get to Fall Creek School and I certainly am very, very sensitive to safety. issues, I would hope that, as a community, we can work together on issues of. safety and concern for children, rather than denying the opportunity for additional housing that is much needed in this community. I also know that it is difficult to change and I think communities, including Fall Creek, including my own community have a hard time changing. Some of you may know, a parcel that is located behind the Hancock Street P &C ages ago, called the Pogo parcel, and when there was talk of development of that lot, I was very active in my neighborhood in trying lo work with the proposed developer at that time, who was not interested in putting up a project that was consistent with the neighborhood. What we. were able to work toward was what we now, in fact have, which is mutual housing and I am very, very happy that we now have mutual housing as a neighbor in my neighborhood. This was an opportunity where the neighborhood was concerned for a variety of reason about one of the initial proposed development plans. We voiced our concerns, as a number of people are tonight and I think that is what a democracy is all about, however, sometimes change is necessary. As previous speakers have indicated,. we have people working in this community who are driving from far distances, who would much prefer living in our community and, by the way, keeping their paychecks in our community. We have employers, such as Cayuga Medical Center, who indicates that they would much prefer having quality affordable housing to provide to their employees. I think what is an opportunity, which I hope is one that is not lost, is one to work toward a win -win. I don't think that we have to look at,. I say we collectively, this project in opposition to other development of scattered site.housing. I think there is a real need, a critical need for housing in this community and I don't think it has to be this project or something else: So, I would urge the Board to approve the re- zoning. Thank you. Chairperson Wilcox — Ladies and gentlemen, we have about ten minutes left. Is there anybody here who would find it difficult to return to the next meeting, for whatever reason, you're out of town, you normally work at night? If there is 53 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 1.6, 2004 somebody in that situation, I would like to give them the opportunity as we come down to the end. The gentleman in the back. Alex Shrine, 213 South Albany Street — Thank you for allowing me time to talk and I hope everyone can hear me okay. I'm a case manager in the Homeless Services Division of the Red Cross and I'd. like to discuss various pieces of information that I have been. given and share what I know about this, project: think if I were to be brief and concise, I would say I think that this project is a good one and I support it. Overall, what I know is we have a4.6 percent. vacancy rate in Tompkins County and 2.7 vacancy rate in the City of Ithaca: Clearly we need housing. Clearly everyone agrees we need housing for low income families. I think some of the additional issues that are being brought up regarding safety are important, but I think there are some things that aren't being considered. Among those, I saw, perhaps it was in the "opinion" piece by Mr. Bowers or, perhaps it was somewhere else, I apologize. I have seen that there is going to be a community center, sort of rec -room area within this complex. It seems that that would, in fact, help develop part of the community and that is,.a worth. while pursuit. Giving the people the opportunity to live in a housing situation, such as this, is really valuable. I would say, in contradiction to Ms. Weiss' document, that the over crowing type of housing that she is describing this as is not really applicable here, nor is the case here. I believe that it would provide an opportunity for people to use public transportation, .1 think that's something that any city, as it is developing, needs to really look at and try to prevent unnecessary sprawl. If TCAT is truly going to be involved in this project and lower income individuals are going to be residing here then I don't' see any reason why TCAT would not receive a greater response in their use in that area. As far as safety regarding children and adolescents, I would think that children in New York City and other large cities deal with far greater issues and that, with parental supervision and guidance, that children and adolescents are perfectly capable of making wise, intelligent decisions on how to walk to a bus and use a bus. I certainly have the concern that TCAT does not run late enough for the needs of many of our population. I don't see safety as being a primary reason to avoid building this project. What I know is that the rental prices that Mr. Bowers puts in his "opinion" piece, I don't know if those are set in stone at this point.. He is quoting 20 units at the 30 percent income level would range between $96 and $827. 1 know that the Department of Social Services gives out $354 to a single person with no children. Clearly Overlook will not be the answer for someone seeing a one - bedroom apartment. What we do frequently ask is that clients we're working with move into two bedrooms and share costs. This would clearly open up many opportunities for people who can put themselves in that situation and for families, regardless of Section 8, which would, of course, be incredible helpful, those dollar values are considered realistically affordable by the Department of Social Services. If you 54 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 have anyone who is making more than Federal Poverty Level it seems much more realistic that they'll be able to move into this housing. If, for some reason, that didn't happen, individuals may be able to move into this housing who are more fortunate, opening up other opportunities for lower income families. I don't see Overlook as being ideal. I do see it as being quality and offering us a lot of opportunities and, by looking at some information that Mr. Mazzarella put in his opinion piece, repeatedly in the past 20 years, affordable. housing has been analyzed, documented and .discussed. 20 years is an incredibly long time. What are we going to do about housing problems now? Thank you. Chairperson Wilcox — I think that's going to have to be about it. I can treat you just as badly as everybody else. Catherine Valentine, Town of Ithaca Supervisor — I know George, you are on the Transportation Committee, I believe. Board Member Conneman — Yes. Supervisor Valentino — I just wanted to make a point of some of the things that we talked about on safety. I know safety is a problem in almost all of our neighborhoods in the Town of Ithaca at some level or other. We've put together, what I think is an excellent Transportation Committee, that has been looking at the accident rates. Actually Trumansburg Road is one of the roads that we have been studying and we are looking, now, at seriously, as the Town becomes more urbanized, along with our trails and paths, looking at sidewalks. I know we're looking at Hanshaw Road. we're looking at Coddington Road and I think, after hearing you folks concerns tonight, will definitely be looking at that road, too as trying to get those trails.connected. I just wanted to, from the Town Board's perspective, the safety of our neighborhoods and our families and children is really. a very high priority for us. Thank you. Chairperson Wilcox — Thank you. John, I may have picked the wrong word, but I think that what I'm doing is I'm going to continue the Public Hearing and adjourn it to, at this point, an unspecified time. Mr. Barney — You might want to specify the time. Chairperson Wilcox — We may try to specify the time in the next five minutes. We are going to see what we can do. Mr. Kanter — I won't be March second. Chairperson Wilcox — It will not be March second because we have a meeting on March second and it is a full agenda of various items that have already been delayed. 55 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Board Member Mitrano — And I wouldn't be able to attend that. Chairperson Wilcox — We want you here, male voice from the audience Chairperson Wilcox — Please, please. Mr. Kanter - Excuse me, I am asking the attorney a question. To continue the hearing, we need to re= advertise it? Mr. Barney — I would recommend that. Mr. Kanter — That has partly to do.with when the next opportunity would be. Chairperson Wilcox - In order to, meet the legal requirements for the posting of the — Mr. Barney — You weren't thinking of having a meeting before the five days? Chairperson Wilcox — No, I don't think so. Mr. Kanter — I don't know. Mr. Barney — If you were thinking about having a meeting for tomorrow night, you could adjourn it to tomorrow night without re- posting the notice. If you are going to adjourn it a given date, then you would re -post the notice. Board Member Mitrano — If it matters to you, on the night of the 16th I have a flight that brings me in at six o'clock. So, that might be cutting it tight if you need a quorum. Chairperson Wilcox — That means you could be here by seven. Board Member Mitrano —. I could be here if US Air brings me back in time. Chairperson Wilcox — Alright. What would this Board like to do? Would this Board like to continue this at our next scheduled meet, which would be the 16th of March or would we like to address it sooner, given it is fresh in our mind and allow the public a chance to complete their input? Board Member Mitrano — I can't be here on the ninth. Chairperson Wilcox — Well, we don't have to do it on a Tuesday. 56 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Board Member Mitrano — Well, if I can be back by the 15 1h 1 guess I would say the 15tH. Monday nights are good, except for the first and except for — Mr. Barney — the eighth and except for the 15tH Chairperson Wilcox —.The reason that it's important is that I think we need to have the full six voting members. It's that someone is .going to vote against it or someone is going to vote for it, we just need all six of us here who are going to vote in am attempt to get four one way or the other. Larry won't be voting. We .have. to find a date when all six of us are going to be around and we may not be able to find that tonight. Board Member Hoffmann — Monday nights are good for me. Mr. Barney — The eighth is a Town Board meeting that night. Chairperson Wilcox - Which ties up this room. Board Member Mitrano — Maybe the eleventh. Mr. Kanter — So, we're talking. about Thursday, March eleventh? Chairperson Wilcox — We're talking tentatively Thursday, March eleventh, yes. Board Member Conneman - 1 think I can do that Fred, but I might have to get a ride from somebody. Chairperson Wilcox — I will give you a ride because I live up on your hill. Mr. Barney — That is the least of our concerns. Chairperson Wilcox We'll send a limousine. Mr. Kanter — Just a question, did we rule out any time next week because of people's unavailability to be here? Chairperson Wilcox — Next week. Hold on people. Next week? Board Member Mitrano — What day? Chairperson Wilcox — You tell me. Board Member Mitrano — Can't do Monday, can't do Tuesday. I'd have to do something about the kids on Wednesday or Thursday. 57 .. PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, .2004 Chairperson Wilcox — Does Thursday of next week work? Board Member Mitrano — What's the date of that? Mr. Barney — The fourth. Board Member Hoffmann — I have the Conservation Board meeting. Chairperson Wilcox — And I'm not going to do it on Friday, we're not going to meet Friday night. Board Member Talty — That's a good thing. Chairperson Wilcox — Is there a problem with Wednesday? Mr. Kanter — Wednesday, the third? Chairperson Wilcox — That means two in a row. Board Member Mitrano — I would prefer the fourth Chairperson Wilcox — Let's leave it at the eleventh for now. Alright. We're not going to approve any minutes tonight. Ladies and gentlemen, take it out there. So, right now we are tentatively scheduled for the eleventh. Rod and Kevin will give a call to confirm. You, hopefully, will clear your schedule whatever you have to do. If the eleventh doesn't,work, I would still like to meet next week. I'm sorry, not next week, the first week in March. If we could do it the third or fourth, I would love to while it's fresh in my mind. Okay, the fourth? Board Member Mitrano — I'm less available on the third than the fourth Chairperson Wilcox — Well, the second, we know you are not going to. be here. So, the fourth would work better than the third? Board Member. Mitrano — Yes. Board Member Hoffmann — I will have to excuse myself from the Conservation . Board meeting then. Chairperson Wilcox — How about the fourth? Board Member Conneman — I don't know, probably. I I 1 , PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Chairperson Wilcox — Ladies and gentlemen, right now we have gone from scheduling the Special Meeting from March eleventh to March.fourth. It is still a Thursday. It is tentative. There are people on the Board who must go home and check with calendars and loved ones and spouses or whatever and see if that date works. It's got to be a date where all six of us can be here. So, tentatively the fourth Mr. Barney — I would suggest you have .a Motion adjourning the Public Hearing to March fourth, giving to the Chair, with the assistance of the Director of Planning the option of scheduling it on a different date if it terns out that not enough people can be there on the fourth. Chairperson Wilcox — So moved. Seconded? All in favor? All right, so moved. Who moved.it? Kevin? PB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 007:Adjournment of Public Hearing Regarding Overlook at West Hill, Preliminary Site Plan and Subdivision Approval and Recommendation to Town Board Regarding Rezoning, Tax Parcel No. 24-4- 14.2, 1290 Trumansburg Road MOTION made by Kevin Talty, seconded by Eva Hoffmann. Adjourning the Public Hearing to continue on March 4th, 2004 and Planning Board Chair, .with the assistance of the Director of Planning of scheduling the meeting at a different date if there are not enough able to attend March 4th, 2004. A vote on the motion resulted as follows: AYES: Wilcox, Hoffmann, Conneman, Mitrano, Howe, Talty. NAYS: None ABSENT., Thayer. The motion was declared to be carried unanimously. Chairperson Wilcox — Ladies and gentlemen we are not done yet. .female voice from the audience- What? Chairperson Wilcox — I am. asking you to please respect us, We need to thank the staff for getting those minutes trap: they did. Who do we thank? You and Carrie? Lori and C done. Agenda Item: Other Business: giving the. the option members we are not done yet, cribed as quickly as arrie for getting that 59 I. 1 PLANNING BOARD MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING FEBRUARY 26, 2004 APPROVED MARCH 16, 2004 Chairperson Wilcox — Do.we have any other business? Mr. Kanter — Do we want to motion the minutes? Chairperson Wilcox — No, the next time. AGENDA ITEM: ADJOURNMENT Upon MOTION, Chairperson Wilcox declared the February 26, 2004 meeting of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board duly adjourned at 10: 35 p.m. R spectful)y Submitted e2tc Z. Lori Love .E TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD 215 North Tioga Street Ithaca, New York 14850 Special Meeting Thursday, February 26, 2004 AGENDA 7:00.P.M. Persons to be heard (no more than five minutes) 7:05 P.M. Continuation of SEQR Determination regarding subdivision approval, site plan approval, and a recommendation to. the Town Board regarding a zoning change, Overlook at West Hill, 1290 Trumansburg Road. 7:30 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Preliminary Subdivision Approval, Preliminary Site Plan Approval, and a recommendation to the Town Board regarding the Zoning Change for the proposed residential development, Overlook at West Hill, located at 1290 Trumansburg Road (NYS Route 96), Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 24 -4 -14.2, Residential District R -15. The proposal consists of two phases of residential development, consisting of 128 affordable rental apartment units in 16 buildings and a community center in Phase I on a 24.5 +/- acre portion of Tax Parcel No. 24 -4 -14.2, and 15 lots for single - family, market rate homes in Phase II on about'19 acres of the subject property. The current owners would retain about 5 acres containing the existing medical practice fronting on Trumansburg Road. The applicant is currently requesting consideration of rezoning the 24.5 +/- acres for affordable rental apartments from R -15 Residence to MR Multiple. Residence and preliminary subdivision and site plan approval for the Phase 1 apartments. Song Ja Kyong, Owner; Aris Investments, Applicant; Grace Chiang, HOLT Architects and Peter Trowbridge, Trowbridge & Wolf, Landscape Architects, Agents, 4. Persons to be heard (continued from beginning of meeting if necessary). 5. Approval of Minutes: February 17, 2004. 6. Other Business. 7. Adjournment. Jonathan Kanter, AICP Director of Planning 273 -1747 NOTE: IF ANY.MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD IS UNABLE TO ATTEND, PLEASE NOTIFY SANDY POLCE AT 273 - 1747. (A quorum of four (4) members is necessary to.con duct Planning Board business.) TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING Thursday, February 26, 2004 By direction of the Chairperson of the Planning Board, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN. that a Public Hearing will be held by the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca at a Special Meeting on Thursday, .February 26, 2004, at 215 North Tioga Street, Ithaca, N.Y., at the following time and on the following matter: 7:30 P.M. Consideration of Preliminary Subdivision Approval, Preliminary. Site Plan Approval, and a recommendation to the Town Board regarding the Zoning Change for, the proposed residential development, Overlook at West Hill, located at 1290 Trumansburg Road (NYS Route 96), Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 24 -4 -14.2, Residential District R -15. The proposal consists of two phases of residential development, consisting of 128 affordable rental apartment units in 16 buildings and .a community center in Phase I on a 24.5 +/- acre portion of Tax Parcel No. 24 -4 -14.2, and 15 lots for single - family, .market rate homes in Phase II on about 19 acres of the subject property. The current owners would retain about 5 acres containing the existing medical practice fronting on Trumansburg Road. The applicant is currently requesting. consideration of rezoning the 24.5 +/- acres for affordable rental apartments from R -15 Residence to MR Multiple Residence and preliminary subdivision and site plan approval for the Phase I apartments: Song Ja Kyong, Owner; Aris .Investments, Applicant; Grace Chiang, HOLT Architects and Peter Trowbridge, Trowbridge & Wolf, Landscape Architects, Agents. [Note: The Town Board public hearing regarding the rezoning for the. above action that was scheduled for February 26, 2004 will be re- scheduled for a future date to be determined.] Said Planning Board will at said time and said place hear all persons in support of such matter or objections thereto. Persons may appear by agent or in person. Individuals with visual impairments, hearing impairments or other special needs, will be provided with assistance as necessary, upon request. Persons desiring assistance must make such a request not less than 48 hours prior to the time of the public hearing. Jonathan Kanter, AICP Director of Planning 273 -1747 Dated: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 Publish: Friday, February 20, 2004 i i Tlexlthaca Journal ' Fri day,'February.20; :2004 - :JOWN OF ITHACA ` PLANNING BOARD:'' NOTICE OF ='= ,PUBLICHEARING Thursday,:: :- 'February 26J1004 By:airection_af the Ch6ir- 2004;'at 215.-North,li a (Street, Ithaca,'N.Y., 6t the following time and _on the following matter: -` I': 7:30.P.M. Consideration [of .Preliminary `Subdivisio'n ;Approval, _Preliminary' Site 'Plan Approval; and a rec-. iommendaticn''to ;the 'Town tBoard, regarding ` the Zonin :Change •for 'the, proposed (residential development; ;Town 10-:44- of -two pfiasesof residential . �development; 'consisting ,Of II H affordable rental, !aportrrent-units in- 1'6.build jings and - o.community,cen- ite'rin Phase I on a.24:5, +/- ;acre portion,of.:Tax.;Parcel NO: 24=4 -141 and 15lots :for single-family,' market -iate homes:, in-Phose il.on -about 119' acres :'.of_,the ,subject !property: -The current -own- ers :would - retain 66 ut: -5. on !Trumansburg � Road. " ::The fapplicant_;Js currently" "re'. questing consideration -ff , rezoning ahe 24;5'- + %- ;acres for -affordable'rentol' apait- Iments'koM R-15, Residence jto MR:.Multiple Resjderice site.:plan approval -for Phase" I:;- apartments: =J . a Kyong, Owner; Grace`Chong,;HOlf Archf tects''an' :Peter• Trowbridge, Trowbridge & Wolf, Land scape Architects,: "Agents:' [Note:_ %i .Town Board. the -rezoning ,;for the -above action • that was -.scheduled for 'Februory� 26, °2004'will be' re-sctieduled'for-a future date -to be determined] ' Said Planning'Board.will 'at said time and. said place hear;all,persons,in. support I of sucho-matter:oeobjections ! thereto, ' Persons. may ap- I PP'ear,byagent or in"' person. - I ndividuals withzvisual'im- poirments,.'hearing'. impair - ments 'or other ;•special needs, will be;provided with assistance as .necessory; upon request.; Peiwns'desir- ing assistance must; make such 'a request.not less than 48' hours, prior to the time of the .public hearipg. . Jonathan. Kanter, AICP Director, of.Plonning 273 =1747 Dated: Wednesday, February 18; 2004'. Publish: Friday, , Februay 20,;2004.; _ t I 1 l TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD SIGN -IN SHEET DATE: Thursday, February 26, 2004 (PL EASE PRINT TO ENSURE ACCURACY IN OFFICIAL MINUTES) PLEASE PRINT NAME PLEASE PRINTADDRESS /AFFILIATION czz:z3 al J n c at ) i j 127. L(--; ry e, 1�► Z4d X-3 1 --T' � L` N / ;; z4 -RIC L %�''it I-i:t -1�1 V } \ f' C c TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD SI&WIN SHEET DATE: Thursday, February 26, 2004 (PEASE PRINT TO ENSURE ACCURACY IN OFFICIAL MINUTES) PLEASE PRINT NAME PLEASE PRINTADDRESS /AFFILIATION ;. ?X/77 - Ulj VA C -� ss Zc- . ,•..- C� -' 1.- it " i� "� C-f ( �'l. , , Ll 14Lpc v 1 -I- -- /114( r,., .� . / Vt � � TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD SIGWIN SHEET DATE. Thursday, February 26, 2004 (PLEASE PRINT TO ENSURE ACCURACY IN OFFICIAL MINUTES) PLEASE PRINT NAME PLEASE PRINTADDRESS /AFFILIATION s� Lk q/ i�' i `�. 4, f IN, 1�i. �' c� , ► f <; i .= J �, .. -, c>- •u� //i --�rl �j.�l�y _.�'� :' ^,'� :�+. _l i'•. 1- j ,< -I �l �•' \` G�._. .y i � �_ ^'•Y.- `I`-� \_ J� _�.; lye I / ' / T �.. i i .� � � J � _..G' • .�._ . (_..ice - -C-•. _��� r - _ Ff TOWN OF ITHACA AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING AND PUBLICATION I, Sandra Polce being duly sworn, depose and say that I am a Senior Typist for the Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York; that the following Notice has been duly posted on the sign board of the Town of Ithaca and that said Notice has been duly published in the local newspaper, The Ithaca Journal. Notice of Public Hearings to be held by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board in the Town of Ithaca .Town Hall 215 North Tioga Street Ithaca New York on Thursday, February 26, 2004 commencing at 7:00 P.M., as per attached. Location of Sign Board used for Posting: Town Clerk Sian Board— 215 North Tioga Street. Date of Posting Date of Publication: February 18, 2004 February 20, 2004 64v a_. Qaece� . Sandra Polce, Senior Typist Town of Ithaca. STATE OF NEW YORK) SS: COUNTY OF TOMPKINS) Sworn to and subscribed before me this 20th day of February 2004. Notary Public CONNIE F. CLARK Notary Public, State of New York No. 01CL6052878 Qualified in Tompkins County Commission Expires December 26, 20 6 �