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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-09-10TOWN OF GROTON — MINUTES OF TOWN BOARD MEETING TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 10, 2019 AT 7:30 PM THE TOWN HALL, 101 CONGER BOULEVARD Town Officers Present: Donald F. Scheffler, Supervisor Richard Gamel, Councilperson Brian Klumpp, Councilperson Michael Perkins, Highway Supt. April L. Scheffler, Town Clerk W. Rick Fritz, Code Official Francis Casullo, Attorney Town Officers Absent: Crystal Young, Councilperson Sheldon C. Clark, Councilperson A. D. Dawson, Town Justice John Norman, Town Justice Charles Rankin, Bookkeeper Also Present: Dan Brocht Jeff Cronk Kris Buchan John Benson Andrew Sullivan Glenn Morey Richard Urda MOVED by Councilperson Klumpp, seconded by Councilperson Gamel, to approve the minutes of the August 13, 2019 meeting as presented. Ayes - Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler RESOLUTION #19-083 - APPROVE PAYMENT OF BILLS MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Gamel WHEREAS, vouchers for Abstract #9, numbered 3 89 - 43 6 were reviewed and audited by the Town Board, be it RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby approves said vouchers for the accounts and in the total amounts as follows: Code Fund Totals A GENERAL FUD 14,185-23 B GENERAL FUND PART TOWN 9,386.97 DA HIGHWAY FUND 12.943.3 7 DB HIGHWAY FUND PART TOWN 1-3.190.90 L- PERUVILLE LIGHTING DISTRICT 160.81 SLI- MCLEAN LIGHTING DISTRICT 244-50 Total. 50,111.78 Ayes - Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Monthly Reports: Charles Rankin, Bookkeeper - Was not present but had submitted monthly reports for the Board's review. Town Board Minutes Page 2 September 10, 2019 W. Rick Fritz, Code/Fire Enforcement Officer - Submitted monthly reports for the Board's review. We've had a lot of stop work orders and orders to remedy. There has been an investigation on the Drain Brain. We have the trucks cleaned up at the other place on Route 222. Michael Perkins, Highway Superintendent - We've been busy cutting shoulders, ditching, and tree trimming. We rebuilt the catch basin and storm drain out in back of the Highway barn. We've replaced some culvert pipes. Next week we should be oil and stoning. During the sale on Auctions International everything was sold and then at the last minute the guy who wanted the Brockway dump truck backed out. The guy who had the second bid is still interested and Mr. Perkins asked for the Board's permission to proceed and sell the truck. RESOLUTION #19-084 - AUTHORIZE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT TO SELL BROCKWAY DUMP TRUCK MOVED by Councilperson Klumpp, seconded by Councilperson Gamel RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes the Highway Superintendent to sell the Brockway dump truck to the person who had been the second highest bidder for the truck at auction. Ayes - Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Mr. Perkins - And if I've done my math right, except for the Brockway, we've taken in $17,885 from the other stuff. April L. Scheffler, RMC, Town Clerk/Tax Collector - Submitted monthly reports for the Board's review as well as a final accounting for the photo show. She told the Board about the new amendment to the marriage law that the Governor had signed on August 20 which waives the State's share of the marriage license fee for a person who is active duty members of the United States Armed Forces. The law went into effect immediately without any notice to Town or City Clerks and without even notifying NYS Department of Health, which is the agency that manages marriage licenses and who the clerks pay the fees to. There is no definition of what is to be considered active duty in the law and clerks have not received any direction from the NYS Department of Health on how to proceed. The law also allows the Town to waive their part of the fee if they so desire. After some discussion, the Board decided to wait until things were clarified better before deciding whether to waive their fee or not. Clerk Scheffler and the Historian had visited the Town of Ithaca offices recently. They were giving away all sizes of storage boxes and minute book binders because they are scanning and getting rid of a lot of paper. We were able to get quite a few things that will be useful for storing our historical and antique documents and items. Francis Casullo, Attorney for the Town - Had nothing to report. John J. Norman and A. D. Dawson, Town Justices - Were not present but had submitted monthly reports for the last two months the Board's review. Councilperson Crystal Young as Representative to Joint Youth Program - Was not present. Dan Brocht, Representing Abundant Solar - I am from LaBella Associates in Rochester. I'm the civil engineer representing Abundant Solar for this proposed project, the 5 megawatt solar farm on Cortland Road. I'm here tonight to introduce myself and the project, to answer any questions. Normally I keep my presentations very informal, more than a question and answer type deal, so I don't just ramble on about water running down hill, because that's what engineers do. So, direct me if you are interested in something. I've come tonight to answer as many questions as I've anticipated. If I don't have the answer to something that you or anyone in the audience asks, I'll make sure that I find the answer for you and get Town Board Minutes Page 3 September 10, 2019 back to you within 24 or 48 hours so that you will have that for your consideration. I believe a representative from Abundant has been here before but this is the first time that you've seen any plans as a formal application for your review. The solar project that we've proposing is a 5 megawatt project and there's various stages that we go through along the way towards approval and we're a long way off. The first step is to introduce the project to the Board, to get a letter supporting a PILOT program, to take input from the Board and the Town staff and incorporate that into our drawings and project model and then submit it for a Special Permit and site plan approval. I don't know if you have any questions, or I can tell you about solar in general, or about Abundant, or if you want to talk about PILOT programs, or site design. Supervisor Scheffler - Why don't you start with telling us about the company and go through the process and your plans. Mr. Brocht - I'm relatively new to LaBella. I was with another engineering firm for almost 20 years. This is actually my 10th project with Abundant. Abundant is one of the largest solar companies in Canada. They do have a Rochester office that handles all of their US sites. I have 4 sites that are completed and interconnected and I have 6 more, including this one, that are in the approval process. So, if you want to see one of these sites, I've got 4 of them in Rochester that I'd be happy to walk you through. Abundant does a really good job of listening to the concerns of the neighbors, towns, municipalities, as far as screening and visual representation, the fencing, glare study, everything that's usually required by a project. They do a really good job as far as trying to make sure that they're part of the community. On that note, one thing about Abundant is that they actually purchase the land opposed to a lot of companies. The property is purchased and owned by them. They don't buy it and sell it. They're a company that is doing very strong from my opinion and what I've heard and seen. Step one is to introduce you to the project and go over what I hope is the process to get it approved. I give you my contact information and I'm pretty much the point of contact all the way through the process. If you have a question, you can ask me. If I don't have the answer I will get it from Abundant or whatever authority there is and relay it to you. As far as the solar sites go, the process usually starts with finding a parcel of land that is acceptable. We usually try to find one that's cleared. Unfortunately, it does sometimes fall on agricultural land. They will submit a concept plan and submit it to the electric company. The electric company will hear them, and each submission requires a payment that keeps getting larger. By the end, when you get to the interconnection agreement, they are paying a heavy fee to be able to have the electric line enter the property. And that really is what makes or breaks that project once you're past your approvals. We are showing a full build -out, meaning we're showing the whole thing being dedicated to solar. If the interconnection comes back that the substation can't handle 5 megawatts, they can handle 3 megawatts, what Abundant will do is redo the plan. My intention is never to come here and show you a plan and then tell you we're going bigger. If anything, we might have to shrink it. But if the interconnection comes back and says instead of 5 megawatts, they can do 8 megawatts. What they do is arrange the panels and subdivide the property and have 3 - 5 megawatts per property. As far as the approval process, we could talk about the County PILOT program. Normally, there's a letter that the Supervisor sends by action of the Town Board saying that they're in favor of the PILOT program. Going on the pretense that they've already shown you the PILOT program, I don't have copies to hand out. My impression is that they've already talked to you about the taxes and the PILOT program. Councilperson Klumpp - That was being discussed. Supervisor Scheffler - They talked to us, they've brought it up. Councilperson Gamel - We've asked for them to explain the whole tax portion. Mr. Brocht - Okay, when I explain it, it's in simple terms because some of it is above my head. For this site, Abundant will do $5,000 towards a PILOT program per megawatt. So this project is based on 5 megawatts, so we're looking at about $25,000 to go into a PILOT program that would be distributed to the County, Town, Fire Department, Pool...... Councilperson Klumpp - Can I ask what the appraised value of the property would be after the megawatt facility is installed? That's an important item. You're proposing to pay $25,000 a year in taxes Town Board Minutes Page 4 September 10, 2019 versus what the rest of the community is being asked to pay. I think there's two distinctive parts to this project, at least in my mind, more or less unrelated: The PILOT program and convincing us that there's a reason to do that and then the actual site plan review. Mr. Broch - As far as the PILOT program goes, I do know they're pretty much the same. People with better math and money skills than me have come up with an economic scheme for the feasibility of the project. From what I've been told, that number is $5,000 per megawatt. If all of the sudden, we did the interconnection down the road and go with 8 megawatts, then it would go to $40,000 for the PILOT program. Councilperson Klumpp - I realize you're an engineer so this may not be an appropriate question to you, but I would like to be convinced, why should Abundant Energy get that tax break. Mr. Brocht - Okay. Anything I..... Attorney Casullo - I just talked with Rick Urda and I think what the gentleman up here is saying is that the Board is being requested to consider giving a letter of support for the PILOT program. As I told Rick, I've been around this before. I guess I'm having a hard time, but how can you consider, and not to say you won't, but shouldn't we have something tangible, in writing as to what the PILOT program will be .... (All Board Members said they have asked a number of times) .... for this particular project before we consider a letter of support. And I mean this in no disrespect of you two, but if you're going to be asked to consider approving a PILOT program, someone should at least be able to give you the parameters of what the PILOT program is. (The Board agreed.) Mr. Urda - I cannot speak on behalf of the company, but I can speak on behalf of what they told me. I had conversations with the woman who put together this application today on the phone. Her name is Rachel Clar. She's answered my questions. I had a lot of these same questions. I'm representing, John, and he's a lifetime resident of Groton and has done a lot of good things for the people around throughout his life. He's just trying to sell some land and says that the farms can't even afford it today because milk prices are so low. We got this purchase agreement hoping that if they could get approval, we could sell the land to them. It's just an arms length deal. There's nothing special in it. But when I asked her the same questions, and this was, why in the world would the Town agree to this. And as it's mostly explained to me is it's basically a payment in lieu of taxes that the Town actually receives a greater benefit than that property produces now by a multiple of........ Councilperson Klumpp - I apologize for interrupting you, but it's an important argument that I'm going to make against that. Basically, anybody that comes in to town and builds a new house is going to be improving the property and paying more in taxes than what's being paid now. But they're not allowed to come to the Board and say, well, we're going to build a $325,000.00 house but we only want to pay what a house of $125,000.00 would pay, but we're still paying more than that empty field. Mr. Urda - If that house is for the sole purpose of the person who built it benefit, that's a very understandable argument. But here's where your argument kind of differs in this case. And that is that this property is designated for the public's good. This property is producing electricity, not for the owner to use. He doesn't use it in his own house. Councilperson Klumpp - Groton's carbon footprint in relation to the City of Ithaca, New York City, down -state, it's significantly less. Mr. Urda - Absolutely, this project would benefit, if you look on a map .... well, let's just step back. As I understand, solar is supposed to be a benefit over a carbon product like petroleum. And that the Federal Government is designing a PILOT program and basically, the Federal Government makes payments to the local municipality in lieu of taxes. Councilperson Klumpp - Significantly less. It's not even close to being equal. Mr. Urda - I disagree. If right now you took the tax parcel as it stands now........ . Councilperson Klumpp - We can't do that. Mr. Urda - No, no, but just if you did. Once this project is approved, they're going to pay three and a half times as much in every tax category. Town Board Minutes Page S September 10, 2019 Councilperson Gamel - If something came in there other than solar, and put a million dollar facility there that manufactured, whatever, pens, are they going to get a PILOT program? No, they're going to pay full taxes..... Mr. Urda - But, but, but what you're overlooking is there aren't PILOT programs for somebody to build that. This is something the Federal Government has tried to create to allow towns to say, hey, let's go slowly, let's try to assist the country in getting off carbon greenhouse gases. Councilperson Klumpp - What's the immediate benefit for Groton? Mr. Urda - The immediate benefit for Groton is your Fire Department will get somewhere in the vicinity of, I think, $5,500 or $7,000 a year. Attorney Casullo - First of all, let's take this step by step ... hold on Rick...... Mr. Urda -....I was just trying to answer their question. Attorney Casullo - Go ahead. Mr. Urda - Currently, the Fire Department gets $145.00 for that parcel. Under this program, would be guaranteed $4,542.00. Councilperson Klumpp - Okay, is there a ballpark figure as to what the property would be assessed at? Mr. Urda - That's 31 times what it is now. Councilperson Klumpp - That comes back to my same argument that anyone who improves the property, be it residential or a commercial property, they're still going to pay full assessed value. I'd like a ballpark idea.....those numbers don't fulfill the argument. Mr. Urda - You're focused, Brian, on what the value of this thing is going to be once it's built. It's actually a huge investment. It's a capital investment in order to have 25 acres of solar panels. I just represented a person who put one in Enfield. If you go on Route 79, that's my client. He put that in and there's somewhere around 12 million dollars of product that they're investing into that property and they don't realize a huge return on this. This is over 20 years to recoup this return. This PILOT program is to allow you guys to assist and not lose a penny. Councilperson Gamel - I disagree. Attorney Casullo - Look guys, I think the point here is that we're putting the cart before the horse. Let's get back to trying to do this in a step by step, logical fashion. If the question is that you are being asked to consider a resolution to do a letter to approve a PILOT for this potential program. Is that the general gist of what you're asking for? Mr. Urda - Not approval. Support. Something that the Town is going to be willing to support. Attorney Casullo - Then with this application should be the PILOT proposal that they can see that they are going to be supporting instead of, well, we think it's in the neighborhood of this, we think it's in the neighborhood of that. Kris Buchan - According to Rachel, who's not here tonight unfortunately, she said that she submitted that already. Mr. Urda and Mr. Brocht say something about figures and they were given to the Board on March 6. Attorney Casullo - Quite frankly, if that's the one that was submitted, is that the one that still stands? Supervisor Scheffler - We don't know if it's the same. Mr. Urda - Nothing has changed about that. I just talked to her about it today. Listen, I'm not running that company nor do I work for them. This is exactly what she focused on today with me. Attorney Casullo - But is that what the County is asking us to consider? Mr. Urda - She stressed to me that 3 1/2 times the tax revenue would be given to the Town every year for the purpose of libraries, school, solid waste, and Tompkins County Taxes. 31 times the amount would be Town Board Minutes Page 6 September 10, 2019 given to the Fire District and it would go from $145 a year to $4,542. So the total benefits to the Town, would be $24,898, each year, every year, for 20 years. It actually goes up over time. So, there's a huge, immediate tax benefit to the Town. Now, is this solar project a benefit to the company and are they someday going to sell that, and is there some way that the Town appraises utility companies or quasi - utility companies? I don't think so. I think that's regulated in a different manner. I don't think that stands for a typical assessment and evaluation. Councilperson Klumpp - I don't think that, like Milliken Station, was assessed at $25,000 a year. Mr. Urda - As a public utility, I don't think it pays taxes. Councilperson Klumpp - They pay taxes. Because when they shut down, it was a huge hit to the local tax base. I don't know exactly what it is. But I would like to be convinced that .... I need to see something more than "we are paying more taxes than what the site was prior to us developing it." The $25,000 a year is miniscule to what the value of the property will be after the build -out. Attorney Casullo - What I'm going to say, hopefully for the final time, what the gentleman said, that the PILOT program was tendered six months ago, what my question was, has it changed in the six months. And that answer should come from the County. Clerk Scheffler - And those figures were incorrect. Attorney Casullo - I'm not challenging them, but what I think needs to be done is no one is saying you're going to give a letter of support or not, but if you're going to be asked to consider a letter of support for a PILOT, are the numbers given to you six months ago, is that still it? We don't know. I'll do it and find out if it's still the numbers and then you'll know the numbers to consider. Mr. Brocht - I think tonight our real purpose was to say hello, that we actually exist, and we actually have a company that's interested in investing in Groton. Mr. Urda - I can't say that I do a lot of board work. But fundamentally, this is like an opportunity to take advantage of a Federal program for the local locality to benefit on some land that sits there as it is. And you actually have to think about how might it be used over the next 20 years and how might it be developed otherwise. If we had like a looking -glass ball, and could see 20 years from now what the rest of the neighborhood is going to be up there, are we giving up an opportunity or are we taking advantage of an opportunity to help the Fire Department. Fundamentally, that's the question. It's not like there's other competing people trying to buy that property and build a hundred million dollar corporation, you don't have alternatives. John actually wanted to have a farmer buy it. The farmer said he can't buy anything at this time. John is at a point where he wants to retire and he's trying to sell it. Attorney Casullo - I think the first issue, and it's great that they've put an application together, I'm not here to say for or against. What I'm trying to do is get this in an orderly fashion. A request is being made for a letter of support for a PILOT, then you have to know what the parameters of the PILOT are. Is it still the same as March or has it changed? Mr. Urda - She indicated it was the same. I don't know if the numbers are right. And I think another really good question has been raised by you guys and that's how do you accept these going forward and how long does this last for and what can we do with it afterwards. I think those are legitimate questions. I don't know the answer to these things. I legitimately am here just to say, because I'm local, and take all these questions back to Rachel and see if we can't figure out whether this would be something the Town would be interested in. I think that supporting via a letter to the IDA is just the mechanism to get them working on it. I don't think that they come and work on it too much without some concept that the Town is interested in considering this. Councilperson Gamel - I think all we're saying is we're not interested in approving anything that we don't have in front of us. I'm not against solar at all. I'm kind of against clear -cutting nine acres to put solar panels in, but I kind of really want to see what the PILOT is and then we'll move on. Supervisor Scheffler - We'd like to see the whole plan. Attorney Casullo - We can get hold of the County and if the PILOT is the same as was given in March, and if it has changed, then we know the change. Then you can decide whether you want to give a letter of Town Board Minutes Page 7 September 10, 2019 support. But to come and ask for a letter of support and not even have something saying that what was tendered in March, six months ago, is still it, is kind of putting you on the spot here. Mr. Urda - Well the last thing we want to do is put anyone on the spot, I know that. If we could table this conversation; I think tonight was to really say hello. We'd like to try to answer your questions and try to figure this out. I don't think we really expected much else. I think she was hoping the Town would say, well tell them we're interested in looking at it so that we can get done working on it. But I don't think that approves anything, I mean there's still site approval, there's still Planning Board approval. None of this is a final approval. Attorney Casullo - And getting to the application, and I told Rick, it would appear to me, if it's going to disturb more than 10 acres, under the SEQR laws, it's a Type 1 Action. As a Type 1 Action, it's going to need what's called a coordinated review or you have to select the lead agency. It would appear from the application that the various entities that would need to be contacted would be the Town Planning Board of Groton, the Tompkins County IDA, NYSERDA, the State DOT, and the State DEC, to see if they wanted to be a lead agency. I suspect that they would say "no", but we have to do that. Also, is technically we're not supposed to do that until the applicant has a full assessment form. Right now they've only filed a short one. Other than that the application is solid and a well thought out presentation, but I think this is what we need to do. Mr. Brocht - I agree with you and that's something that I can remedy by the end of the week. As far as this board, I'm assuming you would be lead agency? Attorney Casullo - Yes, I think once we get the form, the Town could say that they would like to be considered lead agency. They could do that tonight. Mr. Urda - That's part of the request. Attorney Casullo - Could we get some of these requests in writing so I know so I'm not getting it sprung on me in the middle of a presentation? But I do think that we can say that if this project is going to be submitted here that we'd like to be considered the lead agency, but give the other agencies the opportunity to say no. Mr. Urda - I completed my conversation with Rachel today by saying I don't think they're ready to do anything. I don't think this board is ready..... . Attorney Casullo - Well, we could simply do this, we could table it as long as you're going to say that the clock starts ticking, and you agree that SEQR trumps everything. Mr. Urda - I made a purchase agreement to put them under some..?..to keep them moving. But in all reality, my client and I are willing to negotiate that if we see some real action. We put this under contract last year and honestly, we didn't see enough action. We've renewed the opportunity to try again. Attorney Casullo - Well, I think what the Town can do tonight is, provided we get the full form, the Town can consider itself the lead agent. Once we get the full form, it goes out to the other involved agencies and we wait to see if anything comes back. Mr. Urda - And there was one benefit and you guys probably haven't heard of this. But a thousand homes is what's anticipated. If a thousand homes in the Town of Groton chose Abundant Energy as their supplier on their NYSEG bill and they save 10% each. Now they have to deliver that electricity to homes anywhere in this Subdivision C that extends from Oswego, down to Elmira, and out to Stuben County. It has to be somewhere in District C that's set up by, I guess the utility company. She said they would promote it to those homes in the Town of Groton itself with a priority over... whoever is closest. Basically it's saying the consumer with benefit 10% on his electric bill with renewable energy. Supervisor Scheffler - See, half of our Town is a public power.... Mr. Urda - I know it doesn't help the Village.... Supervisor Scheffler - ....they're paying four cents, so it's not a benefit.... Mr. Urda - ...to the Village. I understand that. Town Board Minutes Page 8 September 10, 2019 Mr. Brocht - Abundant usually pairs up with a company called Ampion as the project moves along... (not using microphone)... and go door to door and get the people in Groton first before they look for outside people to sign up. That's a one benefit that we can say. We can't make everybody sign up for it but this company will go after the Town of Groton first and give them the first opportunity to sign up. Mr. Urda - And I know that some of the farms around here try to create their own cost savings and uses from their farms, but other farmers pay utility companies and I would assume that 10% for them would be something that's pretty sizable. So, your local farmers really might benefit the most in terms of the reduction. Another advantage that she wanted me to say is that it's a very quiet neighbor. It doesn't create any pollution or any noise or any light, pollution or anything. It's a very conservative use of the property. They would pollinate it with flowers that are highly pollinated, good for the wild life. These are points that she raised to me to just mention. I think the real question, and I think it gets back to what you're thinking, Brian, is what are the Town's alternative usage for this particular property or property in this vicinity? And, how valuable.... you know I used to think 20 years was a long time but I've been a lawyer for 32 years and it feels like a drop in a bucket. I don't see that many changes in the next 20 years. Councilperson Klumpp - My concern is fairness. Mr. Urda - And I agree with fairness. In fact, the little towns usually get left behind and this might be an opportunity to benefit from that land in ways that we can't benefit otherwise, and that's probably the bottom line. The Fire Department could benefit $4,500 a year versus $145 now. Every dollar matters, but I don't know what the alternative is. I don't think there's a lot of commercial operations that want that land. In fact nobody else is asking to buy it. We don't have any options. Mr. Brocht - I just want to go back to the PILOT program. I was under the impression you've seen it. What I can do is, I'm not sure at what level it actually gets created, but I can get you at the very least an example of a County PILOT program and the way it's written for your review so you do have time to see exactly what the verbiage is and how it's worded. And I can confirm with Rachel as far as how the money will be distributed and find out if she got this from the County. But I'm not sure if you want me to do that or if you want to do that on your own. I don't want to step on toes. Attorney Casullo - This is what I would suggest. That we get everybody to agree to table this for a month with the idea that we're going to make some phone calls. Is the proposed PILOT program the same as what was tendered to the Town in March? And if it is, we should get something in writing to that effect because then you know what you're dealing with to say you're going to support. Number two, then in that month period, you could get a long form SEAR. You do that and then at the October meeting, you can either give your letter of support or not and once you have the long form SEQR here so that you actually have it at your meeting and when you resolve that you desire to be lead agency for this project then you can send it soon thereafter to all the other agency to get the 3 0 days starting which will be shortly after your October meeting so that you have this all on track. It would be a lot cleaner, and when you come here in October we can start to get to the nuts and bolts of this project. Mr. Urda - And we'll try to get some information on future appraisals on it and how that works. Attorney Casullo - So I guess the question would be, Rick and Dan, is are you willing to table this project and hold any time period, including getting the SEQR squared away, to the October Board meeting on October 8th. That way we can get this squared away and have a far more productive meeting on this issue in October. Mr. Urda - I think we're at least beyond "hello". Mr. Brocht - I think this was very successful. Attorney Casullo - So, are you going on the record saying.... Mr. Urda - Oh, absolutely. Attorney Casullo - And Dan, you're okay with tabling everything; no time period starts until we get this all squared away? Mr. Brocht - Yes. Town Board Minutes Page 9 September 10, 2019 Attorney Casullo - And then I can work with Dan and Rick, and the Supervisor can do what you need to do with the County. Mr. Urda - And I agree with you guys having questions. I have them myself and I haven't gotten all the answers either. Honestly, we're kind of learning together. Councilperson Gamel - Well, I think that's part of it. It's a learning curve and we don't want to do jump into anything. I'd love to see John Benson sell his property. I'd love to see them go in. I think it's like Brian said, it's a matter of fairness if any one of the residents of Groton were to open a business tomorrow they would be paying full taxes. Why aren't these guys? That's all. Supervisor Scheffler - And how do we talk to the neighbors up there, look them in the eye and say you've been paying taxes for three generations and this company comes out of Canada and they come in here and then leave and they don't have to pay taxes, but you still do. That's the issue. Councilperson Klumpp - I spoke to probably 10 or 12 people regarding this project over the last week or so, some of which are pretty progressive. And I didn't find one person that was in favor of this company not paying their fair share in taxes. We hear that all the time from the same people that are pushing this agenda. Mr. Urda - I totally get that but I don't see it so much as a, if there wasn't this program, this PILOT program that is supported Federal dollars which enough of them don't come to our local area. You pay Federal taxes but I don't think we get the benefit that a lot of people do from the Federal Government. But you've got a program that actually helps you out here and builds up your local tax base. This piece would do that because of the PILOT program. Councilperson Gamel - It would do it more if they paid full taxes, wouldn't it? Mr. Urda - I don't even know how the taxes work on utilities. I'm not sure, really how to answer that question. Councilperson Klumpp - I think that's important. I think it's something we really need to see so that we have a comparison. Supervisor Scheffler - Thank you. And I too am not for or against this. I just want to make sure we do it right. I don't want to harm John Benson's sale either. Mr. Brocht - If there's any other information that I could bring forth that hasn't been mentioned. Supervisor Scheffler - I looked at things like water run-off and maybe there would have to be retention ponds but that would covered in the SEAR. Mr. Brocht - And I think you made a comment about clearing the trees. Councilperson Gamel - It's kind of an oxymoron to do something green by putting solar in but we're clear -cutting 9 acres of mature trees to do it. Mr. Brocht - I will say that this site has gone through a lot of different layouts. There are things that we have to look at as far as shading. I would be very surprised if this is the way it's built (referencing the map showing the entire property covered with panels). Mr. Urda - And speaking for John, I might have a slight answer for that. He says he's already logged it. So, it's basically just firewood. Councilperson Gamel - Well in 20 years it would be ready to log again. Mr. Brocht - That is something that I can take back and maybe we can minimize it. Councilperson Gamel - I just want to know the full scope of it as we get into it. The last question that I have, you keep talking about when the interconnection happens. That happens after it's all built? So, we don't really know that it's going to be a 5 megawatt, it could be a 3 megawatt, so that $25,000 could really be $15,000. Mr. Urda - If the Town was unwilling to approve the project as proposed, if the proposal was forced to be modified, I guess that would modify everything. Town Board Minutes Page 10 September 10, 2019 Mr. Brocht - This proposal is based on a monetary amount per megawatt. Councilperson Gamel - What I'm saying is that you won't know what the output is until you interconnect. Mr. Brocht - No. There are three applications that are done with the electric company. The first one is about $500; the second is $1,500; and the last one is around $150,000 and that's the one that gives you the true megawatts because that's what the line in front of your property will support. So, we don't know what the full size is until that process is done. Abundant won't commit to putting that much money in until they know that the Town is going to approve at least 5 megawatts on it. To answer your question, we will know that before it's all signed off on. Councilperson Gamel - Okay, so we'll know what, even if there was a PILOT, we'll know how many megawatts will actually be. Mr. Brocht - We'll base it on $5,000 per megawatt. Councilperson Gamel - Yes, $5,000 per megawatt but you're not positive it can handle 5 megawatts. Mr. Brocht - That is correct. Councilperson Gamel - So, the $25,000 that we keep talking about right now, is not a known entity. It really could go to a 3 megawatt, which would take that $25,000 tax down to $15,000. Mr. Brocht - Or it could go up to $45,000. The site has been done in rough sketches. The site can handle, I believe about 9 megawatts, because of the size of the property. We usually put an application in for 5 megawatts until we see what the site can do. Five megawatts is the most you can do per property. What would happen if all of a sudden NYSEG says you can do 9 megawatts is we would come to the Board and do a subdivision plan with 5 on one and 4 on the other. It is a reality that you could get 9 megawatts on this site but we won't know that until Abundant has done the final application for connection. But that's a huge payment on their part and they don't want to commit to that part until they know that..... Mr. Urda - And just to go back on the economic analysis, you're concerned that they're not paying their fair share of taxes but in a sense the Federal Government is going to offset that 3 1/2 fold. In other words, you benefit 3 1/2 times the taxes, not lose the taxes. Supervisor Scheffler - How? Mr. Urda - By this payment under the PILOT program. It's my understanding that these are payments in lieu of taxes. That's what the PILOT program does, it allows the IDA of Tompkins County to support the development of this industry through getting Federal money to grant it to them so they then..... . Councilperson Gamel - I think we understand that part. I just don't see how it benefits the Town of Groton. We don't need to get into anything further on that today. It definitely benefits Abundant, which is a Canadian Company. I'm not so sure it benefits Groton, that's all. Mr. Urda - Well, 3 1/2 times what the taxes are now and 31 times for the Fire Department. Councilperson Gamel - There's a lot that goes along with the Fire Department part as well, and if our Fire Chief were here, I think he has some real concerns about what training they have to do, which is totally different, something they're not used to based on a 9 megawatt solar farm that we don't have equipment or standards for at this point. Supervisor Scheffler - And there's no money out there for training. Councilperson Gamel - So that $4,500 for the Fire Department, I think he's like that isn't even close to worth... Mr. Brocht - We can touch base and we can get into that as we go along. But I know we have done that in the past. It's true, there are concerns. What we have done in the past is to get the electrical department at LaBella and offer to meet them and show them. As far as the solar goes, the panels have nothing on them that can burn, but there are transformers and inverters and typical electrical. That concern is warranted because it needs to be explained. It comes up at every meeting I go to. Town Board Minutes Page 11 September 10, 2019 Supervisor Scheffler - We're going to consider it tabled and thank you very much for coming. Mr. Urda - I'm going to take your questions back to Rachel the best I can and see what kind of answers I get. RESOLUTION #19-085 - AUTHORIZE SUPERVISOR TO SEARCH FOR AN ENGINEER MOVED by Councilperson Gamel, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby authorizes the Town Supervisor to search for an engineer to assist with the review of the application for a commercial solar array submitted by Abundant Solar Power, Inc. Ayes - Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed RESOLUTION #19-086 - SET DATES FOR 2020 BUDGET WORKSHOPS MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Gamel RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby sets the following dates and times for 2020 Budget Workshops: ➢ Monday, September 23, 2019 at 3:30 pm - Highway Employees ➢ Monday, September 23, 2019 at 4:00 pm - Highway Superintendent ➢ Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 5:00 pm - Town Clerk ➢ Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 5:30 pm - Town Court ➢ Friday, September 27, 2019 at 5:30 pm - Board will meet if needed Ayes - Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed RESOLUTION #19-087 - SET DATE FOR SPECIAL MEETING MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby schedules a Special Meeting for Tuesday, October 1, 2019 at 7:30 pm for the purpose of presenting the 2020 Tentative Budget to the Town Board. Ayes - Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed RESOLUTION #19-088 - SET DATE FOR PUBLIC MEETING FOR 2020 FISCAL YEAR BUDGET MOVED by Supervisor Scheffler, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp RESOLVED, that the Town Board hereby schedules a Public Hearing on the 2020 Fiscal Year Budget for Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 8:00 pm, as part of their Regular Monthly Meeting. Ayes - Klumpp, Gamel, Scheffler Nays - Resolution Passed Town Board Minutes Page 12 September 10, 2019 Glenn Morey, County Legislator - Is in the middle of County Budget meetings and has 7 meetings left. He will make a report on the Budget next month. Councilperson Klumpp - I attended the Advisory Committee for the Cayuga Lake Watershed Intermunicipal Organization Implementation Planning Project. Not much got done. What they are trying to do is have several projects set to go should money become available for improving the Cayuga Lake Watershed. They invited representatives from all the area municipalities, DEC, DOT, and a total of about 40 organizations. It may not affect Groton at all as it is mostly for municipalities that actually touch Cayuga Lake, but it is good to stay informed and know what's going on. Supervisor Scheffler - The Tompkins County Council of Governments (TCCOG) sent a resolution to the Tompkins County Legislature requesting money for a person to coordinate the groups that are overseeing Cayuga Lake. There are 23 different organizations trying to clean up the lake and do different things and nothing seems to get done. My comment was when you have 23 organizations doing something, that nothing is going to get done. They need to be pared down and possibly somebody overseeing it, but in the meantime, that adds one more organization to the mix. Mr. Morey said that it won't be an easy thing to fix because it's not just Tompkins County but includes five counties in all. Privilege of the Floor: No one wished to speak. Announcements: ➢ Planning Board meets, September 19 at 7:30 pm ➢ Zoning Board of Appeals meets, September 18, at 7:00 pm There being no further business, Councilperson Gamel moved to adjourn, seconded by Councilperson Klumpp, at 9:01 pm. Unanimous. April L. Scheffler, RMC Town Clerk