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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1973-02-20 • MIN OF IrHMA PLANNING BOAP.D February 20 , 1973 A re ula,r meeting of ° g b � she 'Torr►� as Ithaca Planning Board was held on Tuesday , February 2.0 , 1973 , in the Town Offices at 103 East Green Street , Ithaca , New York , at 7030 p . m . PRESENT : Chairwoman Barbara 1-11olcomb , Daniel Baker Jack Lowe , Sam Slack , Maurice Harris , Iden Kroohs ( Planning Englneer5 , David Cowan , ( Zoning Officer) , Kay Burgunder ( Student Planner) . ABSENT : Robert . Scannell , Arnold Albrecht , Robert Christianson , ALSO PREZ) Es _ < Mr . Herbert Mahr , 103 Judd Falls Rd . , Ithaca . Members of the Press and Radio , The meeting was brought to order at 3015 p . m . by Mrs . Holcomb who stated that the first part of the Agenda , i . e . " Routine Businessca would be omitted , since the meeting was beginning date because of the prior committments of two members of the Planning Board . CONTINUED DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED COMMERCIAL AREA ON FINE -MILE DRIVE - - FAAG AND WHITE , _ - - — - - -- -- — Messrs . Haag and White presented to the Planning hoard a proposed site plan for multi - family units and the Madison Electric Company offices on the former Prince land on Five - Mile Drive . • Mr . Haag noted that Fidler Road runs through the proposed development , and stated that there are fourteen non- conforming uses on Five -Mlle Drive , four of which are in the City of Ithaca however~ it is still the same road . He described the present uses in this area citing Mancini Construction , Pbimsey - Ithatcu and thereby remarking on the wide use of trucks on the road . Mrs . Holcomb summarized a conversation that she and Mr . Kroohs had with Mr . Haag in the Torn Office on Friday , February 16 , 1973 . When Messrs, . Haag and White came to see the Planning Board originally to request ° the rezoning of these two parcels , the Planning Board asked that the first meeting be adJourned so that the Board could get a better look: at the whole picture of the area involved and not just this particular proposed development . Mrs . Holcomb staked that it was her opinion then and it is now that to rezone part of the area requested to commercial would be spot zoning . Mr . Haag feels that the character of Five - Mile Drive because of its present uses might make this proposal acceptable as a commercial development . Mrs . 1-lolcomb felt that if the Planning Board should accept this as being a fact and if it makes planning sense to e.Putend the Commercial zone to cover a more extensive area then it would not be spot zoning . However , even if the Board decided that it was good planning to have a lame commercial zone in this azea in the future the traffic problems presently existing because of the Octopus and Elmira Road would indicate that the area could not tolerate commercial development now . • ,lir . White stated that this is not a high traffic proposal and Mrs . Holcomb agreed' but stated that if they should sell the land and it has a commercial designation then nothing can prevent another developer from putting in a high traffic commercial development . Mr . Torn of Ithaca Planning Board - 2.- February 20 , 1973 White stated that they are prepared to take a chunk out of the other Proposed business zone in order to prevent this from happening . Mr . Hargis stated that he had expressed his opinion four weeks ago on the spot: zoning at the . Planning Board meeting of January 16 , 1973 . He -reiterated that he would not be in favor of this proposal because it is in his estimation spot zoning . Mr . Lowe! agreed . He stated that the area around this proposal is a hodge - podge but that the argument over spot zoning is justified . It is anything but well planned along Five - Mile Drive he stated and further , he would vote against this project mostly because he isunsure Mr . Kroohs felt that the area along Five - Mile Drive is patchwork and even if the Planning Board does allow any more lands to be rezoned some day it could be light industrial completely at which time there could be an argument for the proposal . Mr . Haag felt that the character of the land itself is a valid consideration . It is all a gravel pit and the lands on the other side of them are under water . Mrs . Holcomb noted that the Planning Board is trying to discour- age strip development of commercial areas . Mrs . Holcomb read from the Industrial Section of the proposed Intent of the proposed Zoning Ordinance , as follows : " There are two existing light industrial and one existing heavy industrial district in the Town of Ithaca . It is the intent of this ordinance that no additional areas be rezoned to industrial unless it can be clearly demonstrated that a proposed industrial plant ass too large to fit into an already existing unoccupied industrially zoned area . ` Q Mr . Haag argued very much against this not really in connection with his proposal but as it refers to the Intent of the Zoning Ordinance . Mr . Slack stated that he thought that the area is non-- conforming and much of what is there is strip development . The Planning Board is faced with the problem of spot zoning . He agreed that it is difficult to put anything in there . He stated that he would vote against the proposal for the Commercial part . Mr . Baker stated that he felt that the area is going towards residential and that he would like to see this continued . He stated that he would vote against the proposal . Mrs . Holcomb commented that as fo-. the non- conforming uses - - this is a legal use - - should any of them be destroyed and the area is zoned something else , i £ the building or building , are destroyed 75% , they cannot be rebuilt . Mr . Cowan stated that there are not any businesses that are i;'n that area that are non- conforming that have been put in since the adoption of the Zoning Ordinance . There is one that was built afte'i~ the Ordinance and it is there not an non- conforming but it is illegal . Mr . Haag mentioned a piece of property on the corner next to their land which was owned by a Mr . Allen . He said that he could not Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 3 - February 20 , 1973 substantiate ,it but it was his understanding that this land , which they are inter=erred in purchasing , was at one time zoned commercial but when Mr . Allen wanted to build his house there it was rezoned residential . He felt that this might. have an effect on the decision of the Board , but nevertheless , it seemed clear to him that the consensus of the Board was a rejection of their proposal and that Mr . White and he must be willing to accept that . Mr . Haag then moved on to the other proposal being made by him and Mr . White for the apartment development on a parcel of land that has partly been rezoned to multiple and partly remains RowtW . They are proposing to construct 30 apartment units in sig: buildings . Mrs . Holcomb asked hoPf-7 many acres are involved and Mr . Haag noted that Of you included the parcel previously proposed for commer- cial there are 9 . 3 acres , which would be approximately 3 dwelling units per acre . It was asked if the project could be done as a cluster develop - ment under Section 2081 of Town Law , to which the answer was no since the developer wants to build multiple residence buildings . Mrs . Holcomb explained the meaning of clustering under 201 of Town Law to Messrs . Haag and White . Mrs . Holcomb also pointed out to Messrs . Haag and White that the rear portion of the land they own is zoned R30 and the front • portion is P- 9 because the previous re - zoning never was completed because the required plans were never presented . Mrs . Holcomb also , spoke of the requirements of the Health Department of Tompkins County . for the Information of Mr . Haag and Mr . White . She noted that the County Health Department is a controlling force in developments where there is no water and sewer . Mr . Haig asked just where he and Mr . White should start to work together with the Planning Board so that they could get going , Mr . Cowan defined the meaning of two , tory houses . He stated that one story is probably 101 or 12 ' in height . Mrs . Holcomb asked what if You are on a ;rade and the front is only two stories and the back is three stories . The Planning Boa ��d felt the Haag, and White building could be considered two story . Mrs . Holcomb also noted a conflict here by stating that Haag and WhICe are proposing to build apartments at roughly the same density as in a residential zone but there are rentals and multiple , so under vection 2.31 what is it called ? Is this p �oposal multiple or cluster , Mr . Slack stated that under our present interpretation we are/ saying that 4 units under one roof can be considered a cluster and four units can be put next to it . But if you put a under one roof , then iL is multiple . Mrs . Holcomb stated foz the information of Messrs . Haag and White that if they want: to go for multiple residence zoning their • density is clearly within the confines of that zoning . Mr . White stated that he and Mr . Haag feel that it is economi - cally unfeasible to go to cluster assuming the definition of Mr . Slack is the correct one . They must go multiple . Town of Ithaca Plannin Board - 4; g February 20 , 1973 Mrs . 'Holcomb said they have to go through all tine procedures to rezone for their proposed number of units . Mr . Han; stated that they do not have w:� -+ tten approval from the Health Department , but they have a preliminary statement based on the data that they do have . They do not have septic tail." fields in , etc . Mr . FjLaag wondered just wizere that left them . Hie askedif the Planning Board granted approval subject to Health Dept . approval , Mrs . Holcomb said that it is correct that the Planning Board can grant approval subject to health Dept . approval , ? f they have a letter from the Health Dept , saying that according to the information that is available at moment , the Health Dept , thinks it will be approved . The Planning Board gives preliminary approval and then the developer goes to the TmArn Board where rezoning will or will not be granted . Then the developecomes bac?, to tie Planning Board with final site plans and at that point the Health Dept . has to approve the develop - ment . The Town Board gives final plan approval and then a building permit can be granted . Mrs . i-iolcomb suggested that it would not be in the best interest of Messrs . Haag and White to include in their next presentation the parcel on the other side of Fidler Road ( the original Madison Electric proposal ) . It was agreed after discussion that they would leave out 'two pieces of land that were in the pro - posal submitted earlier this evening to the Planning Board for . the commercial development . It was also noted that Fidler Road has not been dedicated to the Town , Mrs . Holcomb suggested that there be a stopping place or a pull - off for the school bus so that children could wait off the road . Mr . Isroohs mentioned that he could see a potential traffic problem . However , Mr . Baker noted that many of the neighbors approved of the Rolfe proposal . Mrs . Holcomb outlined the procedure to be followed from this point . There mast be a legal description , showing metes and bounds of the rpoposal for the 30 units of apartment dwellings . Mr . Slack asked if this plan being presented this evening could be accepted as a preliminary site plan . Mrs . Holcomb stated that there has to be another one showing the boundaries . Mrs . Holcomb noted that the Planning :hoard is meeting next on the 13th of March ., 1973 . A Public Bearing must be held by the Planning Hoard . She asked that Messrs . Haag and Viaite notify the neighbors , the County Planner since the project is within 500 ' of a State road and then the following timetable will be followed . The Planning Board will at tris meeting tonight call for a Public Nearing to be held by the Planning Board on the 8th day of March which will make it possible for the Planning Board , should it so decide , to mnke a recommendation to the Town Board for presenta- tion at theme meeting on the 12th of March , 1973 . She directed Messrs . Haag and White to gather the material that has been dis - cussed this evening and have it ready for the 8th of March . This was agreeable to everyone present , • MOTION by i'Ars . Barbara Holcomb , PIESOLVED that the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca call and hereby does call for a Public Hearing to be held by the Planning Board on the cath day of March , 1973 , to consider a proposal by Messes . Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 5 - February 20 , 1973 Haag and White to rezone approximately 7 . 5 acres of land off Five Mile Drive from R- 9 and R- 30 to multiple residence . The MOTION was seconded by Mr . Sam Slck . The vote was unanimouo and the Motion was carried . DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED ZONING ORDINANCE , Mrs . Holcomb stated that since Mr . Francese is not here this evening , the :Intent will be mailed to the members of the Planning Board , howeve .c , there are a few things that have come up that need discussion , 1 . In connection with the preparation of the new zoning map showing the new zones it is to be noted that we now have a non- conforming use: in the Town of a mobile home park located on Seven Mile Drive . There will be a provision in the new ordinance for mobile home parks but that mobile home park will not be in conformity withthe new zoning ordinance . MOWED by Mr . Sam Slack , that the mobile home park presently existing within the Town of Ithaca as a non- conforming use , remain as a non - conforming use upon adoption of the revised Zoning Ordinance of the Town of Ithaca . The MOTION was seconded by Mr . Jack Lowe and passed unanimously . s 2 . There is a very small legal multiple residence district on Coddington Road owned by William Farrell . It was Mrs . Holcomb ' s opinion that this ought to be shown on the new zoning map . The lot is actually larger than the Multiple Residence District . MOVED by Mr . Sam Slack that the presently existing multiple residence zone on Coddington Road , owned by William Farrell be shown on the new zoning map as a multiple residence zone . The MOTION was seconded by Mr . Jack Lowe and passed unanimously . 3 . There is a question of whether or not to expand the presently existing Light Industrial District owned by Mancini on the Elmira Road . It has been suggested that it be expanded to a due East -gest line . The present line goes right through Mr . Mancini ' s existing buildings . It was Mrs . Holcomb ' s opinion that the proposed due EastmWest line makes the area too big , but she felt that the area should be moved back far enough so that Mancirii ' s buildings are clearly within the zone . Further , Millbrook Bread and Dairylea have been zpproved as long term leases , but since that time Mr , Mancini has sold this property to them and the situation is getting messy , the question being who takes care of roads etc ? Mrs . Holcomb noted that in a residential zone an owner cannot sell off more than 4 parcels of land at which point he must come in to the Planning • Board with a plan . The item , therefore , for discussion is whether or not there can be a like requirement for a Light Industrial Zone . Mr . Cowan noted that each project has to have its own approval . Mi . Slack noted that this is unlike a subdivision . Mrs . Holcomb felt that this is a subversion of the controls of the Planning Board and wondered just how this problem can be solved . i Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 6 - February 20 , 1973 Mr . Cowan read from Section 44 , Item 3 , of the existing Zoning Ordinance as :Follows : 90Coverage : no principal building shall be erected or altered to cover more than 30 per cent of the lot area . " The Planning Board wished to have it noted that they recognize the problem and that they will ask Mr . Francese to look at this section of the proposed Zoning Ordinance very carefully . There will also be a cheek made on just how much land has been sold off by Mr . Mancini . Mr . Slack stated that if the Planning Board requires that a farmer come to the Planning Board for approval on selling more than 4 lots , the Planning Board should certainly require an owner in a Light Industrial Zone to come before that body with a total develop - ment plan if he sells off a piece or two of his land . Mrs . Holcomb stated that it only makes sense that an owner in a light industrial zone comes to the Planning Board when he is approached by a potential buyer . Mr . Slack felt that an owner in a light industrial zone must propose to the Planning Board what he would like to use his land for . Mr . Slack asked if the Planning Board could look forward to the new zoning ordinance having such a requirement in it . Mrs . Holcomb agreed . Mr . Slack continued and said that he would like a little more definition of what the Planning Board can put in the new zoning . ordinance that will cover the Planning Board in terms of resale or change of ownership . Mr . Lowe felt that it was covered by the requirement that a plan is attached to resale . Mrs . Holcomb stated also that the Planning Board has said that the plan travels with the property . Mr , Slack repeated that what he was talking about is whether it is leased property , or sold property or change of purpose . Mrs . Holcomb stated that this was another sticky problem and the Town Attorney will have to solve it . 4 . As the next item for discussion in relation to the pro - posed zoning ordinance , Mrs . Holcomb stated that the Zoning Ordinance ( present ) has been very carefully amended to include a definition of " family" . Now ,, what about single family cluster in a building with 4 units , a section that must be in the new zoning ordinance . Mr . Slack said that such clustered dwelling units would involve owners . If there are four owners in there then it is just like any other single family zone situation . Mrs . Holcomb agreed , but added what if there is one owner for the whole building ? Mr . Cowan noted also that under cluster you could have eight people in that one building which would generate a goodly number of • cars . Mrs . Holcomb stated that she did not want the Planning Board to hop from single :family to multiple and miss the existence of four dwellings in one building . She stated that when there is a cluster of single family dwellings , the Planning Board wants some controls as they do in single family . Town of Ithaca Planning Board - 7 - February 20 , 1973 5 . In connection with the new concept of density zoning which is being considered for the proposed zoning ordinance , Mrs . Holcomb Mated that while the Misses McCullough and Burgunder are working on this density proposal and formulating percentages , for the Northeast part of the Town they areoing to consider the apartments that abutt the Town as essentially being a part of that neighborhood . The only place on the exterior perimeter of the Town that this applies is Lansing , however , the Town of Ithaca surrounds the City of Ithaca and in East Ithaca Town do we want to consider the fact that Fairview Manor is there ? And , on South Hill the whole area on Coddington Road is apartments . The traffic from Lansing goes through the Northeast neighborhood , but on South Hill it does not . Mr . Baker felt that the Town is affected by proposals that might come in up there on South Hill , After di :3cussion , it was the consensus of the Planning Board that the density of environs applies to the whole Town , not just that part next to the Town of Lansing . Mr . Kroohs wished the Planning Board to be aware that they must not consider the density of the environs only when writing the new zoning ordinance . AWOURME, NT . The meeting was adjourned by Mrs . Holcomb at 10030 p . m . Respectfully submitted , Nancy M. Fuller , Secretary .