HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-05-28 - TB iL3
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TOWN OF ULYSSES
SECOND MONTHLY TOWN BOARD MEETING
May 28 , 1996
P resent : Supervisor Doug Austic ; Councilpeople Catherine Stover ,
Carolyn Duddleston , Peter Penniman ; Town Clerk Marsha Georgia .
O thers Present : Greg Hoffmire , Mark Scorelle , Peter Demjanec .
Mr . Austic called the meeting to order at 7 : 15pm . Mark viewed
the Home Page Demo for the above .
Members of the Planning Board and Master Plan Committee arrived .
P resent : Alex Rachun , CEO ; David Tyler , Gail Zabawsky , Ruth
Kahn , Bruce & Nancy Wilson , Sue Poelvoorde , Grace Wolf / Free -
P ress , Krys Call .
Sue Poelvoorde distributed Draft Comprehensive Plan materials .
Guess we need feed - back from the Town Board .
Mr . Austic said he assumes that this is basically the same as
before . Ms . Poelvoorde said yes , a few words , but nothing —
significant .
Mr . Austic asked what questions the committees had on the memo he
sent ? Ms . Poelvoorde said no questions . . . going back to the first
memo . . . you didn ' t have all the back - up material , but there was a
comment about some of the work we did did not seem to be –
consistent with the map . As we went back and drew that again ,
K rys compiled the survey results , and actually started working on
write - ups and then going back through the goals and objectives
statement , it actually is consistent . -
Mr . Austic said , high density housing isn ' t an important thing ?
Ms . Poelvoorde said in the sense that there were some
inconsistencies with the data , that we asked the question about
h igh density and they thought high rise . There was concern about
being able to live here throughout your lifetime . Let ' s look at
t he map we ' ve produced . Instead of calling it high density
residential , it ' s more appropriate to call it a mixed density
residential ; could be single family or apartments .
Members looked at the map ; discussion ensued concerning.
commercial ( a floating zone ) ; tourism ( floating zone along -
lake / RT 89 ) ; mixed density residential . Mr . Austic reiterated
t he need for more commercial area .
Various Planning Board and Master Plan members commented on
d ifferent zones ; perhaps create definitions for zones . Also , --
t his area has a lot to offer , perhaps focus on the positive
aspects . Mr . Tyler continued . . . if you don ' t have any plans and -
you let them happen as people come in with an idea . . . the value ,
o f the land for particular purposes . . . scenic purposes , etc . is -
lost . Look at what has happened in other communities . The
sentiment is generally " I ' ll do whatever I want with my land . "
Unfortunately that has to be tempered with where are we going as
a community and how do we get there . Mr . Austic asked what we
don ' t have in the Town . Mr . Tyler asked what the survey said .
Jobs , a few small shopping areas , that sort of thing . Mr . Tyler
said for six years we ' ve had this 22 acre parcel zoned ; no body
wants to build for two reasons ; water and sewer . It ' s a prime
property .
Krys Cail said the trouble is once you zone it commercial , they
have certain rights that can ' t be denied . If someone really
wants to have Tri - County Used Car Lot , 55 acre parcel , why not ?
Mr . Austic said the B2 Zone was set up for specific uses .
Requires Site Plan Review . . . so you can do these things even
Town of Ulysses 2
Second Monthly Board Mtg .
May 28 , 1996
though you have a commercial spot doesn ' t mean you can do
anything .
Town Attorney Wilson said it ' s hard to group things together . If
you want to create a zoning ordinance that has modifications you
can have 1 through 5 ; think the primary concern here - in terms of
planning and where the Town Board comes from , is we are trying to -
get something that is forward thinking that can and does require
map referencing . See where those areas are . You ' ve focused on -
industrial ; looking at it . . . trying to be nonjudgmental here . . . you
must say how much of the Town do you want for each , then pick
your spot . How much do you want residential , how much
tourist / recreation , and then within those try to find the most
reasonable expectations within that . It ' s very easy to focus on
what is there ; think contemplative planning is not just
committing to what is there , but considering what the other
concerns are .. If you are going block zoning , fine ; if you are -
going strip , go strip . But have the rationale that what you are
saying is that you are accommodating all these different
interests ; because that is what you really have an obligation to
try to do .
Within the concept of what you are trying to look for in the Town
you should really make it clear as to why you are doing what you -
are doing in terms of Is there an expansion area
within it . Would seem , even if you did not zone something
further , the plan allows for a bigger area , that allows for the
future .
Further comments between Mr . Austic and Sue Poelvoorde . Mrs .
Kahn asked if the Board had in mind some specific additions you
would like to see on the map . Mr . Austic said he would like to
see the County Home . . . it ' s an ideal spot . Mr . Penniman said
perhaps it would be helpful to decide what the categories ought
to be and then decide how much area fits the .
Commercial " floating " zones were discussed . Mrs . Stover said she
would like to see existing businesses " grandfathered " ; placed on
the map . Mr . Austic asked if anyone knew how much open space is
in the Town . Mr . Tyler guessed 756 ; Mr . Austic said it is closer
to 906 - 926 . You are never going to lose all the open spaces .
Suggestions for using different colors on the map to define
certain areas , etc . was offered by Attorney Wilson . -
Heated discussion concerning size of blocks ; taxes , etc . ensued .
Mr . Austic said a diverse mix of all activities needs to be
created , thus allowing older folks to remain in the community and
younger folks to stay . Not just residential , which sends more -
children to the schools and thus increases school taxes . Need
some activities that perhaps employ a few people and helps the -
tax base .
Mr . Tyler spoke to the potential of our area . Look at 10 - 15
years ago and what took place in the Lansing area . That type of
activity will not take place here . . . need to think of other
communities we emulate . . . and I don ' t particularly emulate what -
has happened with Dryden or RT 13 ; or Enfield ; or Newfield . We
are talking about Yes , we need to have this , but think we need to
agree on a concept of where we are going and I haven ' t heard
anyone talk about that particular issue . Do we want to focus on
being everything to everybody so we can have a little of
everything or do we want to focus on something that is more
specific ; what do we want to do ?
Mr . Austic said he would like to see the Town focus on job
producing , not strictly commercial and retail sales . More things
going on where 15 - 20 people are working ; then when you have more
people here they may want other things and then maybe you ' ll have
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Town of Ulysses 3
Second Monthly Board Mtg .
May 28 , 1996
to change your plans and put in a couple stores . First step is
t o get people here . Mr . Tyler said if we don ' t know what will
bring people here ; do know we have something bringing people - -
Tourism . Can ' t base a community entirely on tourism ; but do need
a focus .
Mr . Penniman said may be able to compromise ; if we could define
some sort of low impact commercial development that would be
allowed in residential ; perhaps if we have three types of
residential ( high , medium and low density ) ; a limited low impact
commercial development that doesn ' t involve a lot of traffic ,
noise or visual impact ; like some of the businesses now where 10 - -
12 people come to a barn and do computer programming . Don ' t know
if it ' s legal but it is going on . Decide what type of commercial - -
would be allow in a residential and then which parts of the Town
we would be willing to allow it .
Ms . Poelvoorde says we have wording on that ; not this type of
industry ; but you can do office and professional . Part of what -
is wrong with this , is that during one of our first meetings with
t he Town Board , that we didn ' t want to rewrite the zoning plan ,
so in not wanting to rewrite the zoning plan , we worked really
hard to keep the number of categories small . That may have been
t he wrong direction . Mr . Tyler said that what we presently have
is residential , agricultural , B1 and B2 . That ' s pretty primitive -
and doesn ' t give much flexibility . If you do have a lot of
possibilities and potential you can do a lot more . Working with - -
three , can ' t do much with it .
Mr . Wilson said you can have a Master Plan ; whether it gets -
rezoned or not is another issue .
Mr . Tyler stated if you ( Austic ) are saying we face problems with
t axes and need to build our tax base , I think this Town governing
body needs to take the initiative to put some services in places ---
where it will foster what you are talking about . Mr . Austic said
we have tried ; can ' t run water if the people can ' t pay for it .
Mr . Tyler said you can ; it ' s a question of whether the Town wants
t o invest in that .
Discussion regarding water attempts in the past ; referendums
voted down , etc . Mr . Tyler said take a typical example . a
private line ends up getting run to Seafuses ' , that was a golden
opportunity to have a fairly modest but fairly significant water
line run and it wouldn ' t have cost that much ; did have a couple
o f property owners who refused to go on after the grant fell
t hrough . That seems to be a ripe type of situation where the
Town should look hard and say maybe we should spend $ 300 , 000 . or
whatever , it ' s a lot of money but it will have a significant
impact on the area where you do it . That was a logical place to --
do it , right outside the Village as a potential for development
and it just never happened , probably never will happen at least
not in the near future because it ' s the- way the thing unfolded _.
You have to seize opportunities when they come along ; that was an --
opportunity that slipped through our fingers . You mentioned now
t hat Auble is applying for a water district again . Have become
d isillusioned , he wanted this thing to be turned into something
t hat we could do lots of things with it and he just let it sit -
-
t here . I was in favor of the B1 largely because of the way it
was situated , didn ' t have a lot of road frontage and wasn ' t
something that would have a big impact on the traffic and so
forth . Master Plan said why if it hasn ' t happened at this point
why should we wait . Couldn ' t argue with that . That is where
some impetus from the governing body could encourage people to do
t hings .
Mr . Penniman said thinks it would be important to get members of
t he Planning and Master Plan committees and the Town Board
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Town of Ulysses 4
Second Monthly Board Mtg .
May 28 , 1996
together on a regular basis .
Mr . Tyler said that a couple of things have been suggested here ;
1 ) the map here is suggested as being quite limited . . . the
question is is the Town Board looking for something that has more
variation to it . . . if that is the case think it needs to be
articulated ; will make a difference as to how this whole process
unfolds ; requires also a commitment on the part of the Town Board
t hat says yes that means we are looking at a Zoning Ordinance
t hat needs to have not just vanilla or chocolate but maybe eight
o r ten .
Mr . Austic said he feels it is least important to worry about the
residential restrictions . Most important is commercial and
industrial .
Mr . Rachun commented on the floating tourism zone . . . being that it
is our greatest natural resource and may end up being our -
g reatest industrial / commercial . . . the whole thing wrapped up in
one , maybe the parameters of that zone should be defined further -
because it may eliminate some of the problems we are thinking
about in terms of industrial . There are things that we could do
in this community to enhance our tourism and think if we can
define that zone a little bit better , and enlarge it and -
encompass more of what we are able to do here , it may open things
up a bit too .
Mrs . Kahn spoke concerning the refinement of the map . Mr . Austic
said the Village has said there are 250 building lots left in the -
✓ illage ; there ' s your high density housing . Would suggest you
let the Village take care of the high density housing and we look
at other areas of concern . Mr . Rachun reiterated what Mr . Austic
said earlier . . . there are at least 1000 acres in the Town
currently on the market , trying to be sold . . . farm land , etc . ,
people having a hard time selling it . An evolving community at
t his point .
Mr . Austic asked when another meeting could be scheduled . Mr .
Tyler said that Mr . Wilson ' s suggestion of having Option A , -
Option B , Option C might be a good way to go . . . perhaps that
should come from different groups . Maybe the Town Board wants to
t ake a map and put down their ideas . Mr . Wilson spoke to this
issue . Mr . Tyler and Ms . Poelvoorde also commented . Mrs . Kahn
said that most of us are interested in providing jobs so that
young people can stay here ; providing housing for older people so
t hat they can stay . So that we can have a three generation type
o f community . Mr . Tyler asked if we could get maybe four
categories of what we are talking about on this business side .
Mrs . Kahn said one of the priorities is to make this a place that
will be job producing . Mr . Austic said he doesn ' t see a lot of
commercial / retail sales coming in . Mr . Rachun said that we have -
the difference between farming and agri - business ; our agri -
business is thriving ; have in the future tremendous expansion -
going on in this area . Talk about enhancing what you have now ;
allowing to grow what exists and make it thrive . Have two agri -
business right now that want to do some major upscaling and
development in this community .
Ms . Cail said you can go anywhere in the Town the , way our Zoning
Ordinance is written now . Mrs . Kahn asked what we do next . Mr .
Penniman asked if work should be done in our respective groups
and get together in two months . Mr . Austic said let ' s work on
it ; define levels of business we want . Ms . Cail asked if they
could get some background information ; if there are maps
available that have scale on them , that would be useful ; maps
t hat have the current commercial use places outlining
specifically where they are ; I don ' t have anything current . Can
we invest the money to have copies for everyone ? Mr . Austic said
Town of Ulysses 5
Second Monthly Board Mtg .
May 28 , 1996
t he aerial maps couldn ' t be copied .
Decided to meet again in three weeks , June 18 , 1996 at 7 : 30pm .
Respectfully submitted ,
Marsha L . Georgia
Town Clerk
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To Planning , Master Plan and Town Board Members :
P lease excuse the quality of the minutes of this meeting . Our
recording devise did not pick up many people commenting on
various topics and basically transcribed what I could hear . The
t apes are in the Clerk ' s Office if you wish to listen to them .
P aula Mount
D eputy Town Clerk