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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB Minutes 2001-05-21 Special Meeting of the Ithaca Town Board Monday, May 215 2001 at 3 : 00 P . M . Ithaca Town Hall , 215 North Tioga St. , Ithaca , NY At a special meeting of the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca , Tompkins County , New York held at the Town Hall , 215 North Tioga Street , there were present : PRESENT: Supervisor Cathy Valentino ; Councilwoman Carolyn Grigorov ; Councilwoman Mary Russell ; Councilman Ed Conley (3 : 15 arrival ) ; Councilman Bill Lesser; Councilman Tom Niederkorn ; Town Clerk Tee-Ann Hunter; Attorney John Barney ; Director of Planning Jonathan Kanter; Director of Engineering Dan Walker; Highway Superintendent Fred Noteboom , OTHERS : Lisa Thompson , 130 Oakwood Lane , Ithaca Call to Order : The Supervisor called the meeting to order at 3 : 00 p . m . and led the assemblage in The Pledge of Allegiance . Agenda Item No . 7 — Consider Approval of Recreation Partnership Attorney Barney — Going through that there were a number of questions raised . It looked more to me like it was a program than an agreement . For example , the formulae that is set out for how the smaller municipalities are going to contribute was not clear. I didn 't have the appendix and it may be clearer with the appendix . The agreement was definitely long ; we can only go 5 years . Supervisor Valentino — I 've told them to change that . Attorney Barney — Regarding , "The members would serve a two year term " , I would assume the members would serve at the pleasure of the appointing board . It talks about the municipal boards will ratify the budget annually , but there ' s not provision if one municipality chooses not to ratify . Do you still go ahead with the budget ? Supervisor Valentino — I think basically , yes , we have to re-do the budget . I don 't know . Attorney Barney — I think that is something we ought to work through a little because it is kind of up in the air. Supervisor Valentino — Do you want to make some notes to me ? Attorney Barney — I would be happy to send a letter to you with all these changes . Agenda Item No. 6 — Set Public Hearing for Water Main Extension on Sapsucker Woods Road Attorney Barney — When did you want to set the hearing for? APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Supervisor Valentino — Let ' s set it for June 11 , 2001 at 6 : 30 p . m . Attorney Barney — Second whereas would be Costich Engineering , 217 Lake Avenue , Rochester, New York . And we ' re talking about the construction of 2 , 000 lineal feet with 12 inch . Resolution No. 63 — Set Public Hearing for Water Main Extension on Sapsucker Woods Road WHEREAS, a plan, report and map has been duly prepared in such manner and in such detail as heretofore has been determined by the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York, relating to the creation and construction, pursuant to Article 12- C of the Town Law of water system improvements to be known and identified as the Town of Ithaca 2001 Sapsucker Woods Road Water System Improvement, and hereinafter also referred to as "improvement ", to provide such water improvement including extensions, to the present Town water improvement, such water system improvement to be constructed and owned by the Town of Ithaca, and WHEREAS, said plan, report and map have been prepared by Costich Engineering, 217 Lake Avenue, Rochester, NY a competent engineer duly licensed by the State of New York and have been filed in the office of the Town Clerk where they are available for public inspection, and WHEREAS, the area of said Town determined to be benefited by said Town of Ithaca 2001 Sapsucker Woods Road Water System Improvement consists of the entire area of said Town excepting therefrom the area contained within the Village of Cayuga Heights, and WHEREAS, the proposed Town of Ithaca 2001 Sapsucker Woods Road Water System Improvement consists of the water improvements set forth below, and in the areas of the Town as set forth below, and as more particularly shown and described in said map, plan and report presently on file in the Office of the Town Clerk: Construction and installation of approximately 2000 lineal feet of a new 12 inch water main along Sapsucker Woods Road, together with related controls and other structures. WHEREAS, the maximum proposed to be expended by the Town of Ithaca for the aforesaid improvement is $0. 00, said improvement to be constructed by Cornell University at its expense and subsequently conveyed to the Town. WHEREAS, it is now desired to call a public hearing for the purpose of considering said plan, report and map and the providing of said Town of Ithaca 2001 Sapsucker Woods Road Water System Improvement, and to hear all persons interested in the subject thereof, all in accordance with the provisions of Section 209-q of the Town Law; NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS HEREBY ORDERED, by the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York, as follows: 2 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Section 1 . A public hearing will be held at 215 North Tioga Street, in said Town, on the 11th_ day of June, 2001 , at 6:30 o 'clock P. M. , to consider the aforesaid plan, report and map and the question of providing of said Town of Ithaca 2001 Sapsucker Woods Road Water System Improvement and to hear all persons interested in the subject thereof and concerning the same and to take such action thereon as is required by law. Section 2. The Town Clerk of the Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York, is hereby authorized and directed to cause a copy of this order to be published once in The Ithaca Journal, and also to post a copy thereof on the Town signboard maintained by the Clerk, not less than ten nor more than twenty days before the day designated for the hearing as aforesaid, all in accordance with the provisions of Section 209-q of the Town Law. Section 3. This order shall take effect immediately. The question of the adoption of the foregoing order was upon motion of Councilperson Grigorov, seconded by Councilperson Lesser, duly put to a vote on a roll call, which resulted as follows: Supervisor Valentino Aye Councilperson Russell Aye Councilperson Conley Not present for vote Councilperson Grigorov Aye Councilperson Lesser Aye Councilperson Niederkorn Aye The order was thereupon declared duly adopted. Agenda Item No . 8 — Consider Approval of Attendance at NY State Association of Tax Receivers and Collectors Supervisor Valentino — This is for Carrie Whitmore and Debbie Kelley to attend this meeting . Resolution No. 64 — Approval of Attendance at NY State Association of Tax Receivers and Collectors WHEREAS, the New York State Association of Tax Receivers and Collectors will be holding their Annual Conference in Lake Placid, New York on June 10 — June 13, 2001 ; and WHEREAS, the Receiver of Taxes believes this conference will provide essential training and information regarding the functions of Receiver of Taxes, including any state law changes or updates associated with the duties and responsibilities of the said position; now, therefore, be it RESOLVED, the governing Town Board does hereby approved the attendance of Deborah Kelley, Receiver of Taxes and Carrie Whitmore, Deputy Receiver of Taxes at the 3 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED referenced conference on June 10 — June 13, 2001 in Lake Placid, New York; and be it further RESOLVED, the expenses for attendance at the said conference shall not exceed $850. 00 for registration, lodging, meals, and travel to be charged to the General Fund, appropriation line Tax Collection, Conference/Mileage A 1330. 410 MOVED: Councilman Niederkorn; SECONDED: Councilman Lesser. VOTE: Supervisor Valentino, Aye; Councilwoman Russell, Aye; Councilwoman Grigorov, Aye; Councilman Conley, Aye; Councilman Lesser, Aye; Councilman Niederkorn, Aye. Motion carried unanimously. Award to Town of Ithaca from Town of Dryden , Village of Dryden , and Village of Freeville Supervisor Valentino — The Town of Ithaca got a very nice award from the Town of Dryden , Villages of Dryden and Freewill " For Its Commitment to Community Protection Through Hazard Analysis and Mitigation Planning to Reduce or Eliminate the Effects of Natural and/or Technological Disasters" . Agenda Item No . 9 - Discussion of Voting District Reapportionment Supervisor Valentino — I have been invited to sit it on the County' s meetings as a Town rep on their reapportionment discussion . At the very first meeting that I attended , I appealed to them not to carve up the Town of Ithaca because it would be very easy for them to do that seeing we border on every municipality except for Caroline and Groton . Along the way of those discussions , it became apparent that the City reps had been meeting on a regular basis , and they have been meeting with the County reps . While we were looking at different scenarios of 13 , 15 , 16 and 17 , the City of Ithaca decided that they really wanted to have a 15 member board of representatives , but they wanted to keep 5 of their own reps , which with simple math means that all the rest of the municipalities in the County get short-changed because their population went down ; they' re now only entitled to 4 . 5 . The Town of Ithaca has gone up , we ' re entitled to at least 3 and then a portion of another. We raised issue with that as did some of the other rural reps . Even though we appealed to them to do that , they had a board meeting a week ago on Tuesday where I went and again made the plea that they look at other scenarios and look at fair representation . I even appealed to them to consider stopping the reapportionment effort at this point , go to weighted voting and have an election in 2 years so the community has a chance to study it and a chance to evaluate the situation . They could even go to 4 years and do weighted voting for 4 years . There has been a law case in this community back in the 80s that upheld weighted as being fair and equitable and the way that they should do it until they can reapportion . Agenda Item No . 3 — Public Hearing — West Hill Water Line Project Supervisor Valentino — Has this been posted and published ? Ms . Hunter — Yes it has . 4 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Supervisor Valentino — Is there anyone here that would like to speak to the West Hill project . Lisa Thompson , 130 Oakwood Lane — This is the property immediately adjacent to the water tower and has the driveway easement going across it . I spoke to Mr. Walker earlier this morning . We were just interested in getting information about what to expect in terms of the building project that was going to be taking place . I think I obtained from Mr. Walter the information we needed . My husband and I are fine with the project that is going on . We think that is a worthy public works project that will serve a good purpose . We just ask that you share information with us about whatever plans you have . Also , if we could come to any mutual help in terms of some of the problems we have with the property in terms of dead trees that are failing over on to the driveway and also there are some pretty severe drainage problems along the driveway . Supervisor Valentino — Dan , did you talk to her about some of the drainage problems ? Mr. Walker — Yes . We have a little wrinkle in the project and have to take it before the City Planning Board for Site Plan Review , which was more than was indicated 2 months ago . So we will be in front the Planning Board of the City on June 26 . They' re concerned about the vegetation in the stream area , which I think , are some of the dead trees that are falling into the roadway . We ' re in the process of reviewing that with them . There is a small drainage- way on the site , which apparently doesn 't catch all the water that flows across the driveway . Ms . Thompson — Especially if that driveway is to be paved , I think it could be a problem . We would like to see it paved from our point of view that would be wonderful . But in the springtime the water just basically runs down that driveway and it doesn 't go into the ditch on either side . Supervisor Valentino — If you feel that you ' re not hearing anything , please just contact Dan or Fred . I ' m sure they' ll be happy to work with you . Thank you for coming in . Agenda Item 4 — Consider SEAR Relating to West Hill Water Line Project Supervisor Valentino — Are there any questions about the SEQR . There were none. Resolution No. 65 - SEOR: ADDITION OF A 2000 FOOT WATER LINE AND CONSTRUCTION OF AN ASSOCIATED 10 FOOT WIDE GRAVEL MAINTENANCE ROAD ON WEST HILL (Attachment # 1 ) WHEREAS, this proposal, to be undertaken by the Town of Ithaca, involves the addition of a 2000 foot, 10 inch water line, and construction of an associated 10 foot wide gravel maintenance road; and WHEREAS, this. is an unlisted action for which the Town of Ithaca Town Board is legislatively determined to act as Lead Agency in environmental review with respect to the enactment of local laws; and 5 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED WHEREAS, the Town Board, at a public hearing held on May 7, 2001 , has reviewed and accepted as adequate the Short Environmental Assessment Form, Parts I and 11 for this action; RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Town Board hereby makes a negative determination of environmental significance in accordance with the New York State Environmental Quality Review Act for the above referenced action as proposed and, therefore, neither a Full Environmental Assessment Form, nor an Environmental Impact Statement will be required. MOVED: Councilman Conley, SECONDED: Councilwoman Grigorov. VOTE: Supervisor Valentino, aye; Councilwoman Russell, aye; Councilwoman Grigorov, aye; Councilman Conley, aye; Councilman Lesser, aye; Councilman Niederkorn, aye. The motion was carried unanimously. Aqenda Item No . 4a — West Hill Water Line Public Interest Order Supervisor Valentino — All the funding for this is from money that we already have in our Water Surplus Fund and Operating Fund . Resolution No. 66 - Public Interest Order — West Hill Water Line Proiect WHEREAS, a plan, report and map has been duly prepared in such manner and in such detail as heretofore has been determined by the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York, relating to the creation and construction, pursuant to Article 12- C of the Town Law of water system improvements to be known and identified as the Town of Ithaca 2001 West Hill Water System Improvement, and hereinafter also referred to as "improvement ", to provide such water improvement including extensions, to the present Town water improvement, such water system improvement to be constructed and owned by the Town of Ithaca, and WHEREAS, said plan, report and map have been prepared by Daniel Walker, P. E. , the Town Engineer, a competent engineer duly licensed by the State of New York and have been filed in the office of the Town Clerk where they are available for public inspection, and WHEREAS, the area of said Town determined to be benefited by said Town of Ithaca 2001 West Hill Water System Improvement consists of the entire area of said Town excepting therefrom the area contained within the Village of Cayuga Heights, and WHEREAS, the proposed Town of Ithaca 2001 West Hill Water System Improvement consists of the water improvements set forth below, and in the areas of the Town as set forth below, and as more particularly shown and described in said map, plan and report presently on file in the Office of the Town Clerk: Construction and installation of new pump station and water mains to reinforce the existing water service area and replace the existing Cliff Street pump station as the primary 6 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED source of water for the Trumansburg Road Tank Grid. The improvement includes construction of a new pumping facility adjacent to the City of Ithaca 's Oakwood Lane Water Tank with two pumps and controls and approximately 2. 100 lineal feet of 10 " ductile iron main running from the new pumping station to the existing 12 " main running south from the Trumansburg Road Water Storage Tank, together with related controls and other structures; and WHEREAS, the maximum proposed to be expended by the Town of Ithaca for the aforesaid improvement is $375, 000. 00; and WHEREAS, the proposed method of financing said improvement to be employed by said Town of Ithaca consists of expenditure of current revenues and surplus funds from the operation of the Town- Wide Water System; and WHEREAS, said maximum estimated cost is not greater than 1/1 0th of 1 % of the full valuation of taxable real property in the area of the Town of Ithaca outside of any villages; and WHEREAS, it is proposed that the cost of the aforesaid improvement shall be paid out of surplus funds and current revenues derived from the operation of the Town - Wide Water System; and WHEREAS, the aforesaid improvement has been determined to be an Unlisted Action pursuant to the regulations of the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation promulgated pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act and the laws and regulations of the Town of Ithaca, the implementation of which as proposed, the Town Board has determined will not result in any significant environmental effects; and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca duly adopted an order on May 7, 2001 , calling a public hearing upon said plan, report and map including an estimate of cost and the question of providing water improvements to be known as the Town of Ithaca 2001 West Hill Water System Improvement, such public hearing to be held on the 21St day of May, 2001 , at 3: 15 o 'clock p. m. , Prevailing Time, at the Town Hall, 215 North Tioga Street, in the City of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York, at which time and place all persons interested in the subject thereof could be heard concerning the same; and WHEREAS, notice of said public hearing was duly posted and published as required by law; and WHEREAS, said public hearing was duly held at the place and at the time aforesaid and all persons interested in the subject thereof were heard concerning the same; and WHEREAS, it is now desired to authorize the improvement to be known as the Town of Ithaca 2001 West Hill Water System Improvement; NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED RESOLVED, by the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York, as follows: Section 1 . It is hereby determined that it is in the public interest to make the water improvement hereinafter described and such water improvement is hereby authorized. The proposed area hereby determined to be benefitted by said Town of Ithaca 2001 West Hill Water System Improvement is all of the Town of Ithaca outside of the Village of Cayuga Heights. Section 2. The proposed improvement shall consist of construction and installation of a new pump station and water mains to reinforce the existing water service area and replace the existing Cliff Street pump station as the primary source of water for the Trumansburg Road Tank Grid. The improvement includes construction of a new pumping facility adjacent to the City of Ithaca 's Oakwood Lane Water Tank with two pumps and controls and approximately 2, 100 lineal feet of 10 " ductile iron main running from the new pumping station to the existing 12 " main running south from the Trumansburg Road Water Storage Tank, together with related controls and other structures at an initially determined maximum estimated cost to said benefitted area of $375, 000. 00. The method of financing of said cost shall be by expenditure of current revenues and surplus funds derived from the operation of the Town - Wide Water System. Section 3. It is hereby determined that the estimated expense of the aforesaid improvement does not exceed 1 110th of 1 % of the full valuation of the taxable real property in the area of said Town outside of Villages and, therefore, in accordance with the provisions of subdivision 13 of Section 209-q of the Town Law, the permission of the State Comptroller is not required for such improvement. Section 4. Pursuant to subdivision 6(d) of Section 209-q of the Town Law, the Town Clerk is hereby directed and ordered to cause a certified copy of this resolution to be duly recorded within 10 days of the date of adoption in the Office of the Clerk of the County of Tompkins, which when so recorded, shall be presumptive evidence of the regularity of the proceedings and action taken by the Town Board in relation to the aforesaid improvement. Section 5. It is hereby further determined that all of the cost of the aforesaid improvement shall be borne wholly by property within the Town of Ithaca outside of the Village of Cayuga Heights. Section 6. This order is adopted subject to permissive referendum. The question of adoption of the foregoing resolution was, upon motion made by Supervisor Valentino, and seconded by Councilperson Councilman Lesser, duly put to a vote on a roll call, which resulted as follows: Supervisor Valentino Voting - Aye Councilperson Russell Voting - Aye Councilperson Conley Voting -Aye Councilperson Grigorov Voting -Aye 8 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilperson Lesser Voting -Aye Councilperson Niederkorn Voting - Aye The resolution was thereupon declared duly adopted. Agenda Item No 5 — Consideration of Approval of Plans , Specifications, and Authorization to Bid West Hill Water Line Project Councilman Niederkorn — Do you think , Dan that the City' s Site Plan Development Review Process is going to possibly attack you for anything , or is this just a formality? Mr. Walker — Two months ago I thought it was a formality , and now they've identified a ditch that was excavated probably 40 or 50 years ago when they roughed out the roadway as a stream corridor. We met up there with the Planning Staff from the City and we ' re shifting the alignment a little bit to go around some trees and I don 't think there is going to be a big problem getting the approval from the Planning Staff especially since one resident who lives right there has indicated that these valuable trees are dying already . We ' re proposing some additional landscaping with our own forces after the project is done to bring it back to whatever they want to see out there . Councilman Niederkorn — The point of my question was , if they require some changes , is what we' re adopting now going to have to be re-done or can it be subject to modifications? Mr. Walker — No . The only thing that I can see that they' re going to want to see is different plantings . And we ' re doing this outside the contract . We are going to do it with our own people . I am holding off receiving bids until after the review by the Planning board , that `s on June 26 . This pushes us back , but I 've just accepted that at this point . That gives us plenty of time now because we have 30 days from this date . So the 21St of June will clear us from the permissive referendum . We are going to advertise and put the bids out , but have them due in June 29 , 2001 which is before our July meeting . Councilman Lesser — When is the expected start and completion of this project? Mr. Walker — Construction will start mid or late July . The pipeline is the biggest part of the work . That can be installed during July and August and be completed by September. The buildings take about 30 days to order because they are pre-cast . They can be in by the end of August . The pumps and controls have the longest lead -time on them so we may not have them in place until October, but the groundwork will be done during the construction season . Councilman Lesser — Is there sometimes a problem with the number of bidders or price if the work is supposed to begin fairly soon after the bids are awarded ? Mr. Walker — No . Most contractors are anxious to get in there . This is a relatively small project , at the most 2 to 3 weeks of pipeline work . Resolution No. 67 - Authorizinq Biddinq of Town of Ithaca 2001 West Hill Water Improvement 9 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED WHEREAS, plans, specifications and bid documents have been duly prepared relating to the construction of water system improvements known and identified as the Town of Ithaca 2001 West Hill Water System Improvement (hereinafter also referred to as "improvement ") by Daniel Walker, P.E. , the Town Engineer, a competent engineer duly licensed by the State of New York, which plans, specifications and related documents have been filed in the office of the Town Clerk where they are available for public inspection, and WHEREAS, the Town Board has, by public interest order adopted earlier at this meeting, authorized the construction of such improvement, subject to the possibility of a permissive referendum; and WHEREAS, the Town would like to have the improvement constructed during this (the 2001) building season because of the potential harm that could befall the West Hill water system grid if one of the existing old pumps or the existing old water line were to fail; and WHEREAS, to expedite the construction process the Town Board wishes to begin the bidding process, realizing that if a permissive referendum were requested no bids could be formally accepted until the outcome of the referendum was known; NOW, THEREFORE, be it RESOLVED, that the plans, specifications, and related documents for the construction of the Town of Ithaca 2001 West Hill Water System Improvement prepared by Daniel Walker, P. E. Director of Engineering for the Town of Ithaca, are hereby approved; and it is further RESOLVED, that the Director of Engineering be authorized to advertise for, and solicit bids for, the construction of such improvement provided, however, that no bid shall be accepted until thirty days have elapsed from today, the adoption of the public interest order authorizing such improvement has been duly posted and advertised, and no petition requesting a referendum on the adoption of said public interest order has been received during such 30-day period. MOVED: Councilman Conley, SECONDED: Councilwoman Grigorov. VOTE: Supervisor Valentino, aye; Councilwoman Russell, aye; Councilwoman Grigorov, aye; Councilman Conley, aye; Councilman Lesser, aye; Councilman Niederkorn, aye. Motion carried unanimously. Agenda Item No . 9 — Discussion of Voting District Reapportionment (continued ) Supervisor Valentino — Even though the Town appealed to the County to look at other scenarios other than the 15 with 5 reps in the City , a straw vote they took that night at the meeting , they all said they favored 15D . The only vote that was against it was Dooley Kiefer. Since that time when I went back to another meeting of the reapportionment and again pleaded our case in a stronger mode than the appeal I had made the night before . I basically said to them that the Town couldn 't accept the 15D scenario . That it cuts our fair share of representation and that they need to reconsider. At that point I told them that , it ' s our very 10 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED last choice , but if we had to we would have to consider legal action to make sure that we got fair and just representation . Councilwoman Grigorov — When was that one ? Supervisor Valentino — Last Friday , Mike Lane went ballistic for a little bit . Finally the rest of the committee settled him down . Of this whole mess there seem to be two things that are clear. One is that the City has been working with some of the County reps and they have worked out a deal for them to maintain 5 representatives on a 15 scenario . They've convinced the County Board Members that they shouldn 't look at any other scenarios than that . I guess in this whole thing , as I work through it today , we sat down with Jonathan , we did a freedom of information request of the County for all their GIS information so that we can start looking at scenarios ourselves . They answered our request very , very quickly . I think the fastest we 've ever seen anything get back to us from the County . One of the things that is clear in this whole thing is that Greg Potter has done a fantastic job , but for us to try and sort out what might be a fair and equitable reapportionment is a huge job . I don 't know how we can possibly do it . Councilwoman Russell — Well , we can do it , but it would be very difficult to come to any sort of conclusion within the 10 days that we have left before the County votes . Supervisor Valentino — The other thing , especially after talking with some of our residents today and people that have called me , it seems to me that what has happened is that the County has put this on a fast track . They should just stop what they are doing at this point . They should decided to go forward with the County Board of Reps doing a 2 -year election instead of 4 . In the interim , while we are working this out , go to weighted voting . That 2 year period where people could take our time , look at it , where the public could have a chance to have really important input into the process . There was a case back in the 80s that , interestingly enough , was put against the County by Jean Engle , on the reapportionment they did then . The court upheld that the weighted voting was indeed the fair and equitable way for the County to proceed . Even though it took them 4 years at that point , they waited for the 4 years . The Court basically said , 4 years was a long period of time but because of the weighted voting . . . Attorney Barney — The County did two things . This happens every 20 years in this County because the way our Board of Reps is set up , the election for the Board of Reps occurs the year following the Census . In 81 when the information was released , the County did 2 things . They adopted a local law saying they were going to maintain they' re current membership for 4 year, until 1985 . They simultaneously adopted a resolution , which said we ' ll do weighted voting for those existing seats . The Court said that since both these actions had been taken the court felt that was an appropriate and reasonable way to go . It was held up by the appellate court on appeal . We have a very good , solid precedent . Councilman Conley — My concern is that every time they talk about this they keep saying , " it only affects the County , it doesn 't effect you at all I don 't see how that happens . 11 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilman Niederkorn — I agree with that . Agree that it only affects the County because this is a County Board of Representatives and they represent the entire county , the whole population of the county , which is being divided up into districts . Each district to have a representative , which we have right now . Right now we have Dooley Kiefer who is one of the Town ' s representatives also represents part of the Village of Lansing . Here is an example of the Town of Ithaca , which reached out and got part of an adjacent town . We 've had no problems with that what so ever as far as I can tell . But we ' re still going to have our districts , or our representatives , Town Board members in the Town of Ithaca . The City of Ithaca is going to have its Councilpeople , and all the towns are going to have their own Town Boards , and Villages , and so forth . But the county is an independent legislative body that deals with the whole county . That' s what they are talking about in my mind . Supervisor Valentino — I feel that is not correct . The reason we have County districts and the reason we have the Census and the Census count , is so that we each get our proportional and correct share of our County Reps . We have County representatives that are supposed to represent the interest of the municipalities that they are elected from . Otherwise , why wouldn 't we have them all get elected at large . But they do represent specific districts in our community . Now we have 2 . 8 . With the new census figures , what the law says that we are supposed to do , it says that we are supposed to get 3 . 2 . What ' s happened is that the City is saying they want to keep their 5 reps which gives them a larger proportion of votes than all the rest of the Towns in the County . So , yes it affects the County , but the County Board of Representatives is supposed to represent their districts that they are elected from and the municipalities that they are elected from . If the City maintains 5 under the 15 scenario , then every other community has lost some part of that vote . It means that the City can dominate those votes . Councilman Niederkorn — Isn 't it theoretically possible , since we now have 3 and we would be having 4 more by 15D , that those 4 representatives would come out of the Town of Ithaca ? Supervisor Valentino — But that doesn 't matter Tom . You know why? Because each one of those districts , the one in Danby is a population of 6 , 000+ . The portion of the town that they've grabbed is 500 . So whoever gets elected , whether they are from the Town of Ithaca or from Danby , their responsibility is going to be for that larger group . And if they want to be re-elected it has to be from that . Every section that has been sectioned off from the Town has been not over 1 , 000 . The largest one is on West Hill which is 1 , 000 , which is a zone that is 6 , 400 . From the beginning of time once a politician figured out that they wanted to run for re- election , they figure out immediately who they have to give most of their representation to in order to get re -elected . Do our County reps do that on a regular basis ? No , I think we have some good people there . But that is the reality . There is no way that we can get equal or fair representative when they' ve carved up so many small pieces . If it were one larger piece , where we were in a district that was closer to 50- 50 or maybe even 40-60 we ' d have some reasonable representation . But the way we ' re carved up in those really small little pockets , there is just no way that we can be guaranteed that at all . Attorney Barney — Also , just a purely financial problem , you have these 4/5 other districts , you basically have to supply a voting machine for each one . 12 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilman Niederkorn — I don 't think we ought to mix those two arguments in . The philosophy of fair representation and the philosophy of costing more I think are two different issues . Supervisor Valentino — One of the arguments that the County uses for 16 or 17 is the additional cost . The cost is relative there . The other bigger problem than the voting machines is we would have to create 4 districts , and talking to some of the other Town Clerks about this coming up so quick and so fast is for the Town of Ithaca , and this would be a County responsibility , for each one of those districts we have to have 4 election inspectors . That ' s 12 more inspectors that would have to be found to make sure that the voting works correctly . We would have to find voting places that are handicapped accessible . We had a terrible time finding those kinds of places for the ones that we have . I guess my biggest argument is to rush to this at this pace is going to put this whole community in turmoil . Because every single municipality is going to have to look for these new voting places , add some machines , have this problem . One of the other problems that I heard today is that , and I am pretty sure this is true , the Census numbers that the County is using have not been certified by the State and the State is not willing to give help and aid to this reapportionment because they have not been certified . In fact they' re using numbers that they claim need to be corrected . There is no guarantee that the U . S . Census will even accept those changes , they often don 't . They' re going on a premise that those numbers will be corrected and that' s what they' re using . And they are using numbers that aren 't even certified and I believe that would just throw this total County into chaos . The Board of Elections , although they' re trying to say we can do this , when Town Clerks and the like have talked to them basically what they've said is "we don 't know what is going on and don 't know how we are going to do this" . Councilwoman Grigorov — What is the advantage to the County Board of doing it the way they want to do it ? Is it because they can keep all their same members? Supervisor Valentino — By coincidence it works out that way . Councilwoman Grigorov — What is their rationale ? Councilwoman Russell — That is what makes that scenario attractive to all the other reps , is that basically the outlying rural communities stay fairly much the same in the scenario that they've played out . And the City gets to keep their 5 reps . Supervisor Valentino — So basically everyone that is currently on the County Board is in a safe haven . Councilman Niederkorn — Except that there will be two new ones . Supervisor Valentino — What two new ones? Councilman Niederkorn — Barbara Mink and Stew Stein . Both districts of which extend , according to this , out into the Town of Ithaca . 13 i APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Supervisor Valentino — That would still be safe havens for them because the extensions into the Town are so small . Councilman Niederkorn — I ' m not sure . If you were to run , Cathy , you could probably knock them off . Supervisor Valentino — It ' s just not mathematically possible . They have 6 , 400 residents and we have only 800 or 500 in that area , there ' s no way that can happen . Councilwoman Russell — Tom , today in our discussions it also became clear that the City districts are balanced as far as the County election districts go . But it throws them completely out of balance for City elections because two of them aren 't totally within the City and they don 't reach out and grab that extra population so their numbers are going to be completely out of whack for City elections . It doesn 't even seem that they have considered that . Supervisor Valentino — The City is going to have havoc itself trying to redistrict for this . Councilwoman Russell — They want to redistrict according to these lines , but those districts are going to be completely out of balance because one of them is going to be down a thousand . . . Supervisor Valentino = Another thing , in our election districts it ' s a whole different set of numbers . They go by registered voters and each district is supposed to have not more than 950 registered voters . Again , rushing this train down the track is throwing all these things into the mix that make it incredibly difficult to have it come out in any kind of fair and equitable way . Councilman Lesser — What ' s the precedent for reapportionment like this when it does create a situation which at least partially for practical purposes turns out to be difficult if not impossible to satisfy? What happens ? I ' m sure this isn 't a first time . Attorney Barney — You ' re making an assumption that it is difficult or impossible to comply . That is something that really hasn 't been explored yet , because the problem , as I understand it , is that the County gentleman who has been doing this has been given certain parameters : maintain the districts in the City . Therefore , everything kind of falls out around that . Nobody as far as I know has yet to explore the possibility that we reshuffle some of the districts in the City , maybe create a combined Town/City district which would make some sense . Whether it ' s been impossible or not has not yet really been determined . Councilwoman Russell — The County' s own charter says that the Board of Reps shall meet the following standards and one of those criteria is maximum practical consistency with existing municipal lines . Councilman Lesser — As I under stand this , there are basically three arguments . One is a fairness of representation . The second is the practicality of applying those districts if indeed that is what is imposed . And third , the fact that these figures are not certified . The first one , 14 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED at one level , is by far the strongest but it is also the most abstract , difficult to argue . The second , if I understand correctly , may be important to us but on another level it is kind of our problem . What about the third ? What about the fact that these aren 't certified figures , is there any precedent in that area , on moving on figures that aren 't certified ? Attorney Barney — Quite frankly , I am hearing this for the first time today . Councilman Conley — New York State has to certify them . New York State has to say we accept this . They haven 't done that yet . Attorney Barney — When are they likely to do that? When did they do that in 1980 — 1981 ? Was that reapportionment done on uncertified figures? I don 't know how crucial that is in practice . In principle it sounds very important . Supervisor Valentino — Especially if they are using numbers that need to get authorization for corrections . They are using the numbers that they feel are the numbers that stand a good chance of being able to correct . Attorney Barney — How much of a deviation ? Supervisor Valentino — The Cayuga Heights City Line is over 500 and some . In that area it would be significant . It would probably be the biggest one . If you look at the area between the City and Cayuga Heights that could change that by a pretty significant number. The other big change is in South Hill , Ithaca College they put in a totally different area . If they change how we have to come around and redistrict the Town to reach our 950 balance , having that in the wrong place in the Town could cause a problem . Councilman Lesser — Is there an indication that the numbers are large enough that if the decisions go one way or another it would necessitate further adjustments? Suppose 500 switch from the City to Cayuga Heights or Cayuga Heights to the City , what would happen ? Would they have to adjust the boundaries again ? Supervisor Valentino — Yes . Any change like that begins to shift everything . That' s why we ' re having so much trouble trying to work out a thing . Everything effects everything else . Councilwoman Russell — These scenarios are not the be-all and end -all . These are only some possibilities that are being presented . They haven 't been done with the Town ' s interest in mind . Councilman Niederkorn — Explain to me if you will , please , how the idea of weighted voting would occur? What would that mean in simple terms? Attorney Barney — You take your existing districts , then you increase or decrease the vote of each representative in that district proportionate to the population relative to the average . So , for example , let' s say the . average population was 6 , 000 . Bow you have district like Tom Todd ' s up in Lansing which is probably about 9 , 000 . And you have somebody that' s around 15 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED 5 , 000 . Tom would have 1 and a third votes ; the person with 5 , 000 population would have . 8 or . 9 percent of a vote . Supervisor Valentino — There are some counties that do weighted voting as part of their regular charter. Cayuga County does , for example . There are several other counties in the State of New York that do a weighted voting as part of their regular charter. Councilwoman Russell — Wherever there is still a Board of Supervisors , instead of a Board of Representatives , there is weighted voting . Councilman Nied'erkorn — So then if we had 15 representatives , several of them would be more influential in terms of their votes than several others . Even though they would be only one person . No it' s not one person one vote , it' s one person 1 . 25 votes . Councilwoman Grigorov — Because there are that many people . Councilman Lesser — That ' s clearly the way to represent most directly the voting population . Councilwoman Grigorov — And it is one person , one vote . Councilman Conley — Also , many of us have been around a long time in politics and getting people out to vote . It is pretty difficult , almost every time we go to the house we have to tell them what day the election is , where they go for election , what time it is open , what time it closes . They would get very confused . I ' m confused and I 've been around a while . Councilwoman Grigorov — If we should take to the courts on this , does it get delayed automatically if you do that ? Attorney Barney — Not necessarily . Supervisor Valentino — I don 't think they' d stop an election . Attorney Barney — We ' ve been in contact with a consultant . What you have to do with these is you have to have somebody who comes in and tells you a better plan and comes up with it . Somebody has got to walk in the door and say we ' ve got a plan that works . Because the argument that you ' re faced with is this is the only plan that works . So you have to present one of your own that accomplishes a better arrangement . What you say , I think , without having to do that perhaps , that these are uncertified numbers . And probably you ' d demonstrate the certification process would change it enough . Supervisor Valentino — What we could say to the Board is to pass a resolution or local law to say we ' re all going to be up for election this year in our respective districts , up for two years , and that we will implement during that two year time weighted voting so that everybody gets an opportunity to slow down and study this and let the public have an opportunity to mull this over and try as a joint group to come up with something . 16 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Attorney Barney — Cathy , that would probably be a Charter amendment . It would probably require a countywide vote calling for a special election . Councilwoman Russell — Actually , John said they could do it themselves anytime up until just before the election . Supervisor Valentino — The other option they can do is get elected for their 4 year term and go to weighted voting , like they did before . Councilman Lesser — That makes sense . I can understand why , as far as the Board of Reps is concerned , why they don 't want to have to run 2 years hence . Supervisor Valentino — Ask them to do what they did in 1980 . Run for four years and implement weighted voting so that we can keep the districts intact until we can come up with a better Councilman Lesser — Or maybe we can get the numbers certified and understand what the final boundaries are . It sounds to me as if that ' s the strongest case we have politically . We' ll have to see legally . Supervisor Valentino — I think it gives us time to focus on it and say what really is the real impact . Is Tom right , or am I right ? We' re sort of rushing to decisions here . Councilman Niederkorn — The difficulty for me is that it' s clear that the County Board of Reps are the ones who make this decision , one . Point two , is they voted 14 to 1 on this particular plan . The one being Dooley who is keen on having a two-year term . I can 't imagine how we as the Town of Ithaca can expect to come up with a plan that the City would not like , probably , the County would not like , probably , and expect them to pay any attention to us . They' ve got this thing the way they want it , apparently . I ' m sorry that it' s rushing so fast because I wish we had another maybe not two years , but at least another month . How is it that we can come in with a plan after doing whatever we do to these figures and say here' s the ideal situation that ' s going to satisfy the City' s point of view , going to satisfy 14 of the 15 representatives point of view . Whether it takes 2 years or 5 years , I just don 't know how that is going to happen . Councilwoman Russell — Well , if the City' s expecting to get 5 reps out of a fair plan , then I think that will have to fall . Councilman Lesser — One of the ways you get that , Tom is to convince the voting public that indeed it is to their disadvantage to go with this plan . Again , there ' s the one - person one vote argument , which is important , but it is more abstract . The much more tangible one is , if we go with this we may have to do it again in the future ; if you go with this we ' re going to have to provide this much more voting services and it ' s going to cost the taxpayers such and such an amount . I think it is important that people understand that at the very practical level there are real cost ramifications . My guess is if we had to buy and maintain 4 new voting machines and have 4 new voting areas , I guess that ' s substantial cost . Do we have any idea how much ? 17 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Supervisor Valentino — The machines are not that expensive . They' re close to $3 , 000 , reconditioned machines . Beyond that we have to pay for 12 election inspectors at a minimum of $ 100 each . Councilwoman Russell — It might be as many as 16 . Supervisor Valentino — There would be an ongoing cost to us for something that isn 't really fair. I think the hardest part of the whole thing is to actually come up with the polling places , where these people are going to go and vote . Councilwoman Grigorov — I think any amount of money and trouble would be worth it if it were going to mean you were going to take an unfair plan and make it fair. But they' re doing it the opposite . Supervisor Valentino — David Klein agrees that this plan is not acceptable to the Town of Ithaca , there ' s no way that we can accept this . We 've talked with Mark Varvayanis from Dryden and he ' s not in favor of this plan either. Councilman Niederkorn — He likes one of the other ones better? Supervisor Valentino — I think some of the rural reps , they' re not going to fight as hard as we are , but Lansing , Dryden , Caroline , Danby . Actually they see clearly that if the City ends up with 5 representatives in a 15 board scenario all of us end up losing some of our strength in that . The just strength that we should have on that Board . The math is pretty simple . Councilman Niederkorn — They should have 4 '/2 ? How are they going to get 4 '/z ? Councilman Lesser — I think weighted voting is the only way . Councilman Niederkorn — Not just for 2 years , but forever. Councilwoman Russell — If they would consider seriously the other numbers of reps that could go a long way to helping find a fair solution , but they are not really seriously considering that . As you can see , they've only gone to 1 or 2 examples of that . Supervisor Valentino — Greg has been told that he is not to explore those any further. Councilman Niederkorn — It seems like an impasse . I don 't see how we are going to change their minds at all ; the ones that I 've talked to . We can keep talking as much as we want and come up with different alternatives if we have time to do that , but I can 't believe that it ' s going to have any effect at all . Supervisor Valentino — I think the thing that they have to do is go to the weighted voting until it can be sorted out fairly. 18 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilwoman Russell — We' re hearing a lot from members of the public that feel that they've been totally left out . Councilman Niederkorn — Let' s hear them then . I mean only 50% of the public vote anyhow . Supervisor Valentino — Even less are going to vote if they feel that they are not fairly represented . This is not any type of plan that' s going to encourage people to have any faith . . . Councilman Niederkorn — They don 't even know who represents them . Councilman Lesser — I think we agree with you . But just think about if the Board has the authority to make a decision or do something that we don 't agree with , how can we convince them . Councilwoman Russell — We ' re trying with logical arguments . Our other alternatives are attorneys . Supervisor Valentino — John , say that we address our argument to the County and they still say they are going to go with 15D and that' s tough luck Town of Ithaca , what can we do? Attorney Barney — You ' re talking what legal procedures are available ? Supervisor Valentino — Yes . Attorney Barney — I think probably an injunction asking for them to stay the implementation of the plan because it' s an inappropriate , illegal plan for whatever reasons . It could be the deviation is too great . The lack of certified numbers . Councilwoman Russell — The County Charter . Supervisor Valentino — They are not operating under their own charter. Attorney Barney — If we could come up with somebody who could come up with a better plan , closer to the spirit of what the Charter says . Councilman Lesser — How much time would we have to come up with another alternative ? Attorney Barney — Not a lot . It ' s an article 78 proceeding or an injunction . An injunction proceeding statute of limitations is probably 6 years . The article 78 proceeding is 4 months . As a practical matter you wouldn 't want to let this thing sit for any great length of time . Councilwoman Grigorov — As a sideline , I don 't think that the County Reps care what we think at all anyway . We ' re not really represented on the County Board . 19 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilman Lesser — Do you understand why the city and/or the County are so opposed to expanding the Board . Mary is saying to me that it is possible to work this out , but you need more than 15 members . What is the basic objection to that? Supervisor Valentino — To put it bluntly , Mike Lane that is chair of this Committee is absolutely opposed to anything but 15 . Councilman Lesser — Why? Supervisor Valentino — I am not sure why . 16 , they don 't like to look at because they are afraid of what would happen in a tie vote . The reality is there are over a dozen counties in New York State that have even numbers , and they've all been contacted and they' ve never found it to be a problem . In fact , if you look at the minutes of the County Board , you will find that a great number of their meetings do have an even number because somebody is absent . If it doesn 't pass and you ' ve got a tie , you can just revote it next time . They are using that argument . The argument against 17 is that it would add $50 , 000 a year to their County Budget . We ' ve been having a hard time figuring that out because I think the County Reps are going to go up to 15 which is 30 . That means that each rep is getting somewhere in the neighborhood of $ 10 , 000 worth of fringes , which is pretty steep . Again , its fairness . If 17 is really the fairest way , $50 , 000 in the scheme of their Whole County budget would not even increase our tax rate . Attorney Barney — Wasn 't one of the other issues that the 17 made quite a variance from the existing districts in the outlying areas ? Supervisor Valentino — Greg Potter was told not to explore any ways to mitigate that . Supervisor Valentino — When 15 goes up to 'T' scenarios . 16 has 2 , and 17 has 2 . It' s pretty easy to figure out they've spent all their time on 15 . They haven 't really developed 16 and 17 to see if they could take care of those imbalances on 17 . Councilman Lesser — What about our State reps ? Do they have any position on this ? Supervisor Valentino — They' re not going to touch it . Supervisor Valentino — Can we come to some kind of a consensus? Councilman Lesser — I ' m sorry to say , but I think if the decisions is to go to some sort of legal action , if we ' re essentially running simultaneously two suits against the County , I ' m afraid that in public opinion , however justified each case may be , we ' re the ones who end up looking bad . Supervisor Valentino — I don 't think so . I started getting e - mails today and people calling us saying that they absolutely understand the position of the Town . Saying that they feel we are very justified in going forward with legal action . 20 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilman Lesser — I have no doubts that is true . Of course , you pick up the people who feel that way . Just on the surface of it , it looks bad . Councilwoman Grigorov — Usually it ' s negatives that people express . Councilman Lesser — I think if we ' re talking about something of significance , something of importance , I think that this issue far overshadows the rights of our zoning ordinances . I think in terms of principle , one- person one vote issue , I think that principle is substantially greater. Councilwoman Russell — I think both principles are extremely important . Councilman Lesser — I ' m afraid if you ' re running two suits at the same time , you look really bad . Councilwoman Russell — We' re part of 8 municipalities in that other issue . Councilman Lesser — But I think it is pretty clear who has initiated this . Councilwoman Russell — We didn 't initiate it . Dryden and Caroline initiated it . Councilman Lesser — I think in terms of the public , if they look at what the driving force behind it is , I think they' re going to look at us . Councilwoman Russell — Why? Councilman Lesser — We ' re outspoken on it . Councilwoman Russell — If we ' re outspoken on an issue that we feel that we' re absolutely correct on , how are we going to be criticized ? Councilman Lesser — I ' m talking about public opinion . If you stop the average person out there and said , "whose the force behind this ? " I bet they' re going to say the Town of Ithaca . Councilwoman Russell — Well , that would be incorrect . Councilwoman Grigorov — What does this mean , then ? Supervisor Valentino — Does this mean we shouldn 't do what is right? Councilman Lesser — I just think we really need to think really , really carefully before we take a position that could make us look poorly on behalf of a large portion of the residents of the area . Supervisor Valentino — Could we take the position tonight at this meeting , and in the future , that we believe the County should go to weighted voting until the public has had a fair and equitable chance to review , and be able to weigh in on this , and make sure that everybody understands exactly what is happening to them . That should be our position . 21 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilman Lesser — Absolutely . Councilman Niederkorn — I ' d like to have some counter arguments for weighted voting . Supervisor Valentino — I know what they don 't like . They don 't like they way it messes up their committees . Voting in committees . You don 't have to have weighted voting in your committee , unless those committees are making specific decisions . Councilman Lesser — Maybe we could think about sketching out a press release . I say this because when you say weighted voting , I think what comes to most people ' s mind is that if you ' re in one portion of the County , your vote counts more than somebody else ' s when it ' s really voting by representative . I not sure most people think in those terms . I think if we had some kind of statement and began emphasizing that point , I think people can relate to that . When you think about weighted voting , I think most people think about when they vote and not when their representatives vote . Councilman Niederkorn — Have they given anybody any information on how that weighted voting would spread out ? I think we ought to have that information . It must be fairly simple to do . It would certainly be reasonable to ask them to give us some information on what a weighted voting scenario would look like . Councilwoman Russell — What are you looking for from that? Councilman Niederkorn — I ' m looking for, "What does that mean , weighted voting ? " . What does it really mean in terms of votes . How many votes does Joe Lally have , for example ? I understand the principle , but I want the details , the numbers . Councilwoman Grigorov — We can 't do that at the meeting tonight . Supervisor Valentino — What it means to the Town of Ithaca is that Tim , Mike , and Dooley would , between the three of them , end up with 32 votes . Councilman Niederkorn — You know that on the basis of your numbers ? Councilwoman Russell — The disputed numbers . Supervisor Valentino — The City , instead of having 5 votes would end up with 4 . 5 . Councilman Lesser — So some of the outlying districts , probably Lansing , would also pick up . Attorney Barney — Lansing would certainly end up with more because the biggest population growth is in the Town of Lansing . Supervisor Valentino — It would begin to shift the balance of power to the Towns away from the City . That ' s fair, because we have the population , and that ' s what they are worry about . 22 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilman Niederkorn — I ' m trying to think what issues have come up where that' s been a problem over the last 4 years . Where the balance of power, as you say , from the City what difference that would have made . Supervisor Valentino — I can think of things . How that extra 1 % sales tax was distributed , it went mainly to the City ; towns really didn 't get anything out of that except some good will allegedly from the County . Councilman Niederkorn — Yes , but that was voted on by the whole Board , was it not? 5 of who were City people . So there must have been a lot of support from that from outside too . Councilwoman Russell — It makes it so much easier for them to get three more votes to be a majority . If they were 5 out of 16 it would be much harder for them to put together the votes to get something to pass that is in the City' s interest , not necessarily the Town . Supervisor Valentino — The City' s got the biggest proportion of all the funding in the past on the Youth Development Programs . They had the votes to go out and pick up a few more . Councilman Niederkorn — It seems to me that there are relatively few substantial kinds of issues that have happened over the years that have made any difference whatsoever. Councilwoman Grigorov — Usually we are not opposed in our interests , still . Councilman Niederkorn — I ' m sorry to have to break away like this , but I just can 't feel the passion about this issue . Supervisor Valentino - Look at the tower' s issue , for example . The City has chosen not to join in on that , but there are 8 municipalities that can 't seem to get the County reps to recognize the importance of our zoning . For the city reps it' s an easy call for them because they are not directly affected by that . Councilman Niederkorn — But there again it' s virtually a unanimous vote of the 15 people , only 5 of whom are from the City . If they had 4 1/2 instead of 5 , 1 can 't see that there is going to be a world change in difference here . Supervisor Valentino — Well you never know in an election . You know , different people get elected . What we have to do is try to see what is fairest and hope that reasonable people get elected . Councilwoman Russell — It would be very easy for those City reps the feelings of their Town constituency to the extent that it conflicts with any issue that comes up where the Town might have a difference of opinion . Supervisor Valentino — If it is not that important why is the City fighting so hard for it . 23 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilman Niederkorn — Well , I don 't know . The only thing I heard was that they need to have 10 members of Council . If they go to 8 members of Council their work load would be so heavy , probably they' re micro- managing or something , but that ' s the only thing I 've heard . Councilwoman Russell — They could go to 5 in a 16 . They could go of 4 and then 2 at large . Supervisor Valentino — There ' s scenarios they could do for Common Council to keep their balance without getting the 5 reps . Councilman Niederkorn — If those arguments are so compelling , why is it that they are being resisted so much ? Councilwoman Russell — We don 't know . Supervisor Valentino — They don 't even want to look at 16 or 17 . If they wanted to just keep the reps in the City for Common Council , then they should be willing to look at 16 or 17 because they could keep 5 reps . There insisting on 15 and the 5 , so what conclusion can you draw from that except the balance of power on the County Board of Reps? Councilwoman Russell — Pat Vaughn came right out at that meeting and said that this scenario was the one that helped the City maintain its influence on the County Board . Councilman Niederkorn — I suppose they could have 5 wards , 2 Councilpeople from each ward , and still have only 4 County Rep Districts . Councilwoman Russell — Sure . Supervisor Valentino — That ' s what they are asking of us . It ' s okay for us , but it ' s not okay for them . Councilman Lesser — Can you make a connection of the fact that if you look at the communities in the County , those that are in the most difficult financial position are the City and the County? It seems to me the Towns are fiscally are more stable . Councilwoman Grigorov — Of course their obligations are so different . They don 't have to do social services . Councilman Lesser — Could one make the argument that to the extent that the City has proportionally more voting authority on the 15 reps proposed here that they can increasingly look to the County to absorb some of the City expenses which means that the cost is getting passed on . I think that ' s an understandable argument . Councilwoman Grigorov — It has been brought up many times by the communities of Caroline and Groton . They' re not getting as much attention as the Town of Ithaca and the City of Ithaca . 24 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilman Lesser — If you ' re trying to make a case with the public that ' s something the people can relate to : Supervisor Valentino — I think the argument that we 've been making so far about the 5 and 15 , and that the Town of Ithaca is really entitled to at least 3 . 2 and we end up with only 2 reps even though we 've gotten increased population . The City Ithaca has decreased population but they've been able to maintain . Wherever we 've talked to the public about that , they under stand that very well . The letter we sent out , we got some phone calls backing saying they appreciated the letter that I sent . They thought it made the issue pretty clear to them . Councilman Lesser — You will need a strong reaction from a large portion of the voting public , enough to get the County Board to change it' s opinion . You ' re probably going to have to hit additional buttons . And there ' s not much time to do that . You ' re going to have to get people involved . Supervisor Valentino — If you go out and about and talk to the general public , there is a fairly strong feeling of resentment against the County . They've got a budget that' s $3 million short , the tax increase , they' re not happy with the representation that they are getting on those increases . Quite frankly a lot of people think that putting the solar panels was a monumental waste of money . Regardless of what we think , a lot of the public thinks that was a big waste . It' s not like we ' re in a position where we are taking on an entity that has strong public support . It doesn 't seem from where I 've been and people that I ' ve talked to that is not the case . People are really upset about County taxes , fair or not fair. Mark Varvayanis basically said that he felt there would support from the Town of Dryden to go in on a lawsuit with us on this . Ed Edmund called in and said keep up .the good work , you really need to take them to task on this . Doug Austic supports us on this . Councilman Lesser — If there was to be a law suit , what ' s the final date of which that can be done ? Attorney Barney — First you have to have them take an action to react to . I assume they' re talking about doing something May 31 , 2001 . Then you have 30 days . Councilman Lesser — It may come to that , but I think there are a lot of reasons that should be , if at all , an absolutely last priority . I think we ought to have a really strong press conference , and I think we ought to really hammer on the Board . You 've got to get some pocketbook issues too if you ' re going to get people to react strongly . Supervisor Valentino — There was a big op ed piece in this morning from the Town of Ithaca Republican Community . Gary Stewart had an editorial a while back about rushing so fast in to this . Tom Hatfield was on Casey Stevens for a long time this morning saying basically the same thing , they' re rushing to a decision that just doesn 't make sense . They need to stop and take they' re time and give people a chance to respond . The Ithaca Journal ' s had three or four articles now . 25 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilwoman Grigorov — I think that' s our strongest point as far as the public goes . This is a big rush and they are not doing it right . I would hope we wouldn 't be giving a press conference demonizing anybody , or any board . Councilman Lesser — If you ' re going to go out and sue them you 've got realize we ' re moving in the hardball league . You can 't have a nice gentlemanly suite about something like this ; it ' s going to be a nasty business . Supervisor Valentino — I was more worried about the zoning issue on the towers because of the way the volunteer fire fighters and those people really , it was a very difficult issue for the community to understand , but we really turned that around . I think we really got the public to understand exactly what the issue is , we got the 8 municipalities to come in on broad support for that . It just takes repeating , repeating , and trying to get it down so the public really understands the importance of what ' s happening here . Councilman Niederkorn — I feel more passionate about that one going to court because that's a matter of some law , than I do about this one . Councilwoman Russell — This affects people ' s voting rights for the next ten years . Supervisor Valentino — We need to go down to the public hearing at 5 : 00 p . m . Is it our position at this point that we would like to see the County not rush to having reapportionment by May 31St? That they should attempt to go to weighted voting for the next 4 years so that reasonable people can try to understand and come up with a more equitable solution . Attorney Barney — You are only allowed to reapportion once in ten years . Supervisor Valentino — If they' ve made a horrible mistake in rushing forward this time , you ' re stuck with it . Councilman Niederkorn — I don 't know that you can go in there with a consensus because I don 't share in all of those points that you make . I don think that the fact that it has to be rushed is not good . I don 't know what reasonable alternative accept the other things you mentioned . I ' m not particularly keen about the idea of weighted voting if it can be avoided , and I don 't think we ought to have for 4 years , for sure , in case it doesn 't work . You know it is very difficult for me to stand with you , though I ' d love to do it , shoulder to shoulder and say we' re here and this is what we all think . I don 't agree with all of the things that you say . Supervisor Valentino - Bill where do you stand ? Councilman Lesser — I am for delaying this important decision until the numbers are finalized , until we consider the alternatives and the ramifications , and from my understanding the most likely effective way to do that is to go to weighted voting , certainly at least two year but probably practically speaking 4 . Supervisor Valentino — Ed ? 26 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Councilman Conley — I agree with what Bill said . Councilwoman Grigorov — I agree . Councilwoman Russell — I agree with you . Supervisor Valentino — And I know that David agrees with us because he spoke very strongly . Councilman Niederkorn — I think it would be reasonable to get a response to that position . A point by point reasoning . Supervisor Valentino — What they say about weighted voting is one of their first and early meetings of the committee they discussed it . People on that committee said they really didn 't want to do it and so they discarded it on that basis . Councilman Conley — I think we really ought to make an effort to express this to the populace in article and what have you so that people understand that weighted voting seems to be more fair than what we are looking at here . Supervisor Valentino — We need to incorporate that weighted voting gives one person one vote . Attorney Barney — Exactly the situation you have now was done here 20 years ago . Councilman Lesser — I was going to volunteer in the morning to try drafting an op ed piece . What should I do with that? Have people comment on that and make changes until it is acceptable? Whoever supports it can sign it ? Councilman Niederkorn — Couldn 't we also talk to our representatives ? We at least have a few of them . The three of us have one person . The three of you have another . And I don 't know who has Dooley . Supervisor Valentino — We've talked with Dooley . Councilman Conley — I can 't make that public hearing . I have a very sick friend in the hospital over in Elmira . ADJOURNMENT On motion by Councilwoman Russell the meeting was adjourned at 4 : 50 p . m . Motion carried unanimously . Respectfully submitted , Tee-Ann Hunter 27 APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED - JUNE 11 , 2001 - APPROVED - APPROVED - APPROVED Town Clerk 28 ATTACHMENT # 1 617 .20 PROJECT ID NUMBER SEQR APPPENDIENDI X C STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW SHORT ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT FORM for UNLISTED ACTIONS Only ART 1 - PROJECT INFORMATION ( To be completed by Applicant or Project Sponsor) APPLICANT / SPONSOR 2. PROJECT NAME Town of Ithaca West Hill Water Improvements 3.PROJECT LOCATION : Town of Ithaca Tompkins Municipality County 4. PRECISE LOCATION : Street Addess and Road Intersections, Prominent landmarks etc - or provide map Oak Ave from Water Tank Westward 2000 feet 5. IS PROPOSED ACTION : ❑� New ❑ Expansion ❑ Modification / alteration 6. DESCRIBE PROJECT BRIEFLY: Pump Station being placed at Oak ave Water tank. New water line to run from tank 2000' west to existing line AMOUNT OF LAND AFFECTED: nitially 1 acres Ultimately 1 acres WILL PROPOSED ACTION COMPLY WITH EXISTING ZONING OR OTHER RESTRICTIONS? ❑✓ Yes El No If no, describe briefly: 9. WHAT IS PRESENT LAND USE IN VICINITY OF PROJECT? (Choose as many as apply. ) R Residential ❑ Industrial ❑ Commercial Agriculture a Park / Forest / Open Space ❑ Other (describe) 10. DOES ACTION INVOLVE A PERMIT APPROVAL, OR FUNDING , NOW OR ULTIMATELY FROM ANY OTHER GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY (Federal, State or Local) ElYes No If yes, list agency name and permit / approval : 11 . DOES ANY ASPECT OF THE ACTION HAVE A CURRENTLY VALID PERMIT OR APPROVAL? ❑ Yes � No If yes, list agency name and permit / approval : 12. AS A RESULT OF PROPOSED ACTION WILL EXISTING PERMIT / APPROVAL REQUIRE MODIFICATION? []Yes ❑✓ No I CERTIFY THAT THE INFORMATION PROVIDED ABOVE IS TRUE TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE pplicant / Sponsor Name Date: Signature------ --------- -------------- If the action is a Costal Area , and you are a state agency, complete the Coastal Assessment Form before proceeding with this assessment PART II — Environmental Assessment : Town of Ithaca Addition of a 2000 foot water line and construction of an associated 10 foot wide gravel road West Hill - approximately 1600 feet north of Mecklenburg Road Town of Ithaca Town Board Proiect Description : The proposal involves the addition of a 2000 foot water line , construction of a pump station, and construction of an associated 10 foot wide, 2000 foot length, gravel maintenance road. The new water line will begin at the City of Ithaca 's water tank on Oakwood Lane , and extend 2000 feet to the west. It will terminate at the west end via a connection to an existing 12 inch water line that runs perpendicular to the new line. The new pump station is needed to move water up the +/- 290 foot gradient between the east and west ends of the proposed new water line. The pump station would be constructed in the City of Ithaca, adjacent to the Oakwood Lane water tank. The maintenance road and new water line will be just south of the Town of Ithaca's undeveloped West Hill Park. See attached map for location . A. Action is Unlisted . B . Action will not receive coordinated review . C Could action result in any adverse effects on, to or arising from the following : C1 Existing air duality, surface or groundwater quality or quantity, noise levels , existing traffic patterns solid waste production or disposal , potential for erosion drainage or flooding problems ? No significant adverse effects are anticipated relating to air quality, water quality or quantity, noise levels , existing traffic patterns , solid waste, or potential for erosion, drainage, or flooding as a result of the proposed action . The proposed project will permanently disturb approximately 0.45 acres of land, spread out over a 2000 foot area. The land is currently in meadow and hedgerows , except for a small young wooded area located near the Town/City line. The gravel maintenance drive will create a more impervious surface than what currently exists . This is not considered a significant amount of additional impervious surface however, and should not result in any noticeable increase of runoff. Drainage patterns will continue as they currently exist. No changes in water quality are anticipated. Noise from construction of the water line , maintenance road , and pump station should be short- term and not significant. C2 . Aesthetic , agriculture , archeological , historic, or other natural or cultural resources , or community or r neighborhood character? 1 No impacts to aesthetic , agriculture, archeological , historic , or other natural or cultural resources, or community or neighborhood character are anticipated. C3 . Vegetation or fauna fish, shellfish or wildlife species, significant habitats , or threatened or endangered species ? None Anticipated. C4 . The Town ' s existing plans or goals as officially adopted, or a change in use or intensity of land or other natural resources ? None Anticipated. Construction of the proposed water line and gravel access drive will have only minor effects on the land. The land is zoned Residential R- 15 , and would be expected to be developed for housing sometime in the future. The Town of Ithaca Comprehensive Plan (September 1993 ) designates this site and surrounding area as " Suburban Residential " . The project itself will be beneficial for overall water service in the currently served area on West Hill, in terms of providing adequate water pressure. Water pressure to West Hill is provided by a combination of the Trumansburg Road water tank and the City's system, and is not currently considered adequate for this area of Town. This is a concern especially for residents of West Haven Road, and especially in consideration of fire protection The proposed project will help to pressurize the water system on West Hill , and is considered part of a two phase project that will eventually result in an additional water tank on West Hill . The currently proposed improvement, however, stands on its own and is necessary for the safety and integrity of the existing water system. Having adequate and well-maintained utilities , particularly in areas anticipated for future growth, such as the subject area, is consistent with the Town of Ithaca Comprehensive Plan . C5 . Growth subsequent development, or related activities likely to be induced by the proposed action ? The proposed project may have some growth inducing effects within the currently served area. Creating a more pressurized water system would allow more residences to be able to be serviced by the existing water line . The new 10 inch water line will be used strictly for pressurizing the system and it is not expected that this line could be tapped into. However the existing 12 inch line, that runs east and west, and currently services the residences along West Haven Road, could be tapped into . Having improved water service , on the currently served area on West Hill , could potentially create a more desirable location for development. The existing 12 inch water line traverses through Residential R- 15 zoned land, and areas designated " Suburban Residential " in the Comprehensive Plan, and is therefore an area that would be expected to have increasing residential growth. While R-30 and Agriculturally zoned lands are just to the west of this area, it is not expected that these areas would be impacted by the 2 project, in terms of induced growth . This improvement will not increase the water service area on West Hill, and is necessary to provide the required pressure for water service in the currently served area. C6 . Long term short term cumulative, or other effects not identified in C1 -05 ? None Anticipated. C7 . Other impacts (including_changes in use of either quantity or type of energy? None Anticipated. D . Is there or is there likely to be, controversy related to potential adverse environmental impacts ? No controversy related to potential adverse environmental impacts is anticipated. PART III. — Staff Recommendation, Determination of Significance Based on review of the materials submitted for the proposed action, the proposed scale of it, and the information above, a negative determination of environmental significance is recommended for the action as proposed. Lead Agency: Town of Ithaca Town Board Reviewers : Susan Ritter, Assistant Town Planner J:"O- Review Date : May 1 , 2001 3 ART II - ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT (To be completed by the Town ; Use attachments as necessary) Does proposed action exceed any Type I threshold in 6 NYCRR, Part 617. 12 or Town Environmental Local Law? YES NO X If yes, coordinate the review process and use the full EAF. B. Will proposed action receive coordinated review as provided for unlisted actions in 6 NYCRR, Part 617.6 YES NO X If no, a negative declaration may be superseded by another involved agency, if any. C. Could proposed action result in any adverse effects associated with the following: ( Answers may be handwritten, if legible) C1. Existing air quality, surface or groundwater quality, noise levels, existing traffic patterns, solid waste production and disposal, potential for erosion, drainage or flooding problems? Explain briefly : See attached. C2. Aesthetic, agricultural, archaeological, historic, or other natural or cultural resources? Community or neighborhood character?. Explain briefly : See attached. C3. Vegetation or fauna, fish, shellfish, or wildlife species, significant habitats, unique natural area, wetlands, or threatened or endangered species? Explain briefly : See attached . C4. The Town's existing plans or goals as officially adopted, or a change in use or intensity of use of land or other natural resources? Explain briefly: See attached . C5. Growth, subsequent development, or related activities likely to be induced by the proposed action? Explain briefly : See attached. C6. Long term, short term, cumulative, or other effects not identified in C1 -05? Explain briefly : See attached . C7. Other impacts (including changes in use of either quantity or type of energy) Explain briefly : See attached . D. Is there, or is there likely to be controversy related to potential adverse environmental impacts? YES NO X If yes, explain briefly : See Attached. E. Comments of staff X CB , other attached. (Check as applicable.) PART III - DETERMINATION OF SIGNIFICANCE ( To be completed by the Town of Ithaca) Instructions : For each adverse effect identified above, determine whether it is substantial , large, important, or otherwise significant. Each effect should be assessed in connection with its (a) setting(i .e. urban or rural) ; (b) probability of occurring ; (c) duration ; (d) irreversibility; (e) geographic scope, and (f) magnitude. If necessary, add attachments or reference supporting material . Ensure that the explanations contain sufficient detail to show that all relevant adverse impacts have been identified and adequately address. Check here if you have identified one or more potentially large or significant adverse impacts which MAY occur. Then proceed directly to the full EAF and/or prepare a positive declaration . X Check here if you have determined, based on the information and analysis above and any supporting documentation, that the proposed action WILL NOT result in any significant adverse environmental impacts AND provide on Attachments as necessary the reasons supporting this determination . Town of Ithaca Town Board Name of Lead Agency Preparer' s Signature(If different from Responsible Officer) Catherine Valentino, Supervisor fignature ame & title of Responsible Officer In Lead Agency Signature of Contributing Preparer irvu c7 DATE : of Responsible Officer in Lead Agency