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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB Minutes 1989-01-18TOWN OF ITHACA SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING January 18, 1989 At a Special Meeting of the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca, Tcirpkins Coimty, New York, and Ccxnmon Coimcil of the City of Ithaca, Tcantpkins County, New York, held at City Hall, 108 East Green Street, Ithaca, New York, in Ccjtimon Council Chambers on the 18th day of January, 1989, there were: PRESENT: ABSENT: ALSO PRESENT: Noel .Desch, Supervisor Shirley Raffensperger, Councilwonan Robert Bartholf, Councilman Patricia Leary, Councilwcman David Klein, Councilman Henry McPeak, Councilman Richard Ruswick, Town Attorney Mayor John Gutenberger Robert Rcmanowski, Alderperson Raymond Schlather, Alderperson John Johnson, Alderperson Richard Booth, Alderperson Benjamin Nichols, Alderperson Sean Killeen, Alderperson Carolyn Peterson, Alderperson Daniel Hoffinan, Alderperson Ray Wheaton, Ithaca Fire Department Dave Burbank, Ithaca Fire Department Gloria C. Howell, Fire Cotmissioner David Cornelius, Fire Ccramissioner P. K. Reeves, Fire Ccninissioner Lyman Baker, Volunteer Company 2 Bill Baker, Ithaca Fire Department Dan Rhoades, Ithaca Fire Department Lyle Neigh, Ithaca Fire Department Wendell J. Schucle, Ithaca Fire Dept. Jeff Bangs, Bangs Ambulance Service David Reynolds, Ithaca Fire Dept. Willis B. Sheldon, Ithaca Fire Dept. Scott Gingras, Ithaca Fire Department Tcm Whitmore, Ithaca Fire Department David Teeter, Ithaca Fire Department T. J. Riley, Ithaca Fire Department Russ Fellows, Ithaca Fire Department John Cook, Ithaca Fire Department Dan Tier, Ithaca Fire Department Richard J. Smka, Ithaca Fire Dept. C. Thomas Parsons, Ithaca Fire Dept. Lee La Buff, Ithaca Fire Department Eleanor May, Town of Ithaca Chris O'Connor, Vama Fire Department Gillian Sharp, Ithaca Fire Department Linda Godfrey, 107 West Lewis Street Gene Ball, 1317 Trumansburg Road Leigh Marshall, 186 Van Dom Road Carl V. Nyberg, Ithaca Fire Dept. George i^ar, Ithaca Fire Department Brian Wilbur, Ithaca Fire Department Dave Cynoske, Ithaca Fire Department Town Board Minutes 2 January 18, 1989 Gary Moravec, Fire Coninissioner G. David Sharp, relative of fire fighter Barbara Caldwell, Ithaca Fire Dept. Guy VanBenschoten, 602 N. Cayuga St. Dave Mills, 617 Elm Street Extension Representatives of the Media: Fred Yahn, Ithaca Journal FLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The Supervisor led the assemblage in the Pledge of Allegiance. PUBLIC HEARING TO DJL'rm<MINE WhiJi'tiaR TO AMEND THE FIRE CDNTRACT WITH THE CITY OF ITHACA TO SHARE THE INCREASED COST OF ADDING 5 AND cm HALF FIRE FIGHTERS Proof of posting and publication of a notice of a public hearing to consider v^ether to amend the Fire Contract with the City of Ithaca to share the increased cost of adding 5 and one-half fire fighters having been presented by the Town Clerk, the Supervisor opened the public hearing. Supervisor Desch welcomed all, saying he was not quite sure \^at to call this meeting except frcm the Town's viewpoint this is a formal public hearing. It is in essence a joint meeting although our City colleagues consider it a work session or an informal session. The Town, of course, needing to have a public hearing to consider any amendment to a contract and that is v^at we are here to talk about. The Supervisor encouraged the members of the City Council to join the members of the Town Board at their usual place and he thanked the City for being a very gracious host. It is a little bit of a new experience for seme of us to try to piece all of this together but he was confident it would work. The Town Clerk then read the following public hearing notice: "TOWN OF ITHACA, NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING. PLEASE TAKE NOTICE, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and conduct a joint public hearing with the City of Ithaca on January 18, 1989, at 7:30 P.M., at Ccmmon Council Chambers, 108 East Green Street, Ithaca, New York, to determine v^ether to amend the Fire Contract with the City of Ithaca to share the increased cost of adding 5 and one-half fire fighters and will at this time hear all persons for or against said proposal." Lyle Neigh, Ithaca Fire Fighter stated he intended to be very brief. He went on to say that he thought most of the people know vdiere he stands on everything that is going to be discussed here tonight. He stated that v^at he wants to emphasize is the fact that vdiat he has felt in the past that even though correct information was used, put together and presented here, it's like any statistical information, it's designed to present a certain side of a situation and is not necessarily totally accurate in how it effects the items being discussed. So, vtot he thought \tot he was addressing mostly are the Tcwn Board and perhaps Council to carefully weigh vtet is said not only career personnel but by volimteers and the public at large. Put it in the proper perspective, please before making a final judgement. Other than that he did not want to get involved in any of the specifics. Leigh Marshall, President of the Ithaca Paid Fire Fighters Association stated that it should be clear to everyone now that Town Board Minutes 3 January 18, 1989 Ithaca needs more fire fighters. The news media reported that 100 fire fighters responded to the fire last Thursday morning on State and Aurora Streets. There may have been infact, 100 fire fighters at the fire scene at seme point. Most of them arrived many minutes, even hours after the fire was reported and many of reported 100 fire fighters were volimteers from mutual aid fire departments. During the first all iitportant minutes of the fire, four fire filters and two officers were sent to the fire scene. This is a routine response for a reported structure fire in the Ithaca Fire Department. Those six people attempted to do the work of twenty people necessary to do a thorough and coiplete initial fire attack. Because of the lack of personnel the fire continued to grow and spread to an adjacent structure. By the time more help did arrive the fire damage was already done. Every person in Ithaca \^o understands fire fighting agrees that more help is needed now, the volimteers, the paid fire filters, the Fire Commissioners and the Fire Chief have all asked for more personnel. The question is not Wiether to add fire fighters but how to add them and vdien. Ithaca's Common Coimcil set aside $130,000 to immediately begin the process of adding fire fighter positions. We are asking that the Town Board match these funds. If the Town would do this there would be a total ccninitment of $260,000 for new fire fighters positions in 1989. This would be a serious step forward to bring the Ithaca Fire Department up to miniitium safety standards. Safety for the citizens we protect and safety for the fire fighters ccramitted to doing their job. We also request that all of the $260,000 be spent exclusively on fire fighter positions. We need fire fighters first. Staff positions can be added later. The Ithaca Paid Fire Fighters Association is standing firmly behind its request for twenty-two new positions. If the remainder of the twenty-two positions cannot be immediately guaranteed then firm plans must be made tonight to add them in the near future. We are not concerned (he underlined this) if a fire fighter is paid or volimteer, the Paid Fire Fighters support and need the volunteer system if the Ithaca Fire Department is survive and meet today's and tomorrow's challenges. We need fire fighters, paid or volunteer, that are properly trained in gear and guaranteed to be on the fire scene on or with ainriving fire apparatus. The present volunteer system does not meet these needs and will never be able to do so. The Ithaca Paid Fire Fighters will continue to recruit, train and work with volunteers. Foremost our needs for increasing the paid staff will be made and our request for additional fire fighters will heard and dealt with. We would like to be represented at all futtare City/Tcwn meetings on this and other safety issues. We want to be involved so we can provide technical information and suggestions for the decision making process. We are enthusiastic about the outcome of this meeting and want to thank all of you for your valuable time. Thank you. Dan Rhoades, Captain of Volunteer Ccnpany # 1 and Chairman of the Ithaca Volunteer Conpany Captains stated that he was here tonight, again, in support of the paid staff's request for increased paid positions. He went on to say, now he was told before, the other day, that he should come out with facts and not treat it as an emotional issue. Mr. Rhoades stated that he becomes emotional in seme of the other meetings that we have had on it because it is an emotional issue with us. For one thing, we are putting our lives on the line out there and we want to have adequate people to back us up vhen we do put our lives on the line. Mr. Rhoades went on to say, let me throw seme facts at you that you may not know. In 1987, we had 2,970 alarms in the City of Ithaca. Last year it increased to 3,355 alarms, that's an increase of almost 400 alarms in one year. Himself, last year he hit 410 alarms. That means that just the alarms he hit was just v^at the Town Board Minutes 4 January 18, 1989 increase was for one year. Facts like this you cannot ignore. You are burning out the volunteers that you have. They cannot possibly go to all the alarms and follow the incidents that happen. That's \diy we have to have more paid personnel. We have actively recruited people and we have done our part to tiry to build up out depleating forces. But when you have the sheer number of alarms that we do in a given year and the sheer number of incidents that we do that requires manpower you can bum out these people very easily. These are facts and figures that you cannot ignore. They are here in black and vdiite and that's v^y we hope tonight that you will approve the positions, the five positions that have been set aside. Also, one other thing too that nobody seems to have talked about, see this isn't only this year, if you want to spread it out over two or three years fine, we really need the original twenty positions, twenty-two positions, we really need those desperately. If you want to spread it over two or three years, fine but give us a plan tonight so that we know v^t's going to happen in the future. We do not want situations \ihare we have to be pulled out of fires because the thing gets to dangerous because we have a lack of personnel to actively control the fires that we are fighting. And that has happened recently vdiere fires have gotten out of hand because we do not have enough personnel to control them. Please help us, we need it desperately. Thank you. David Cornelius, stated he was Chairman of the Board of Fire Coiimissioners. Mr. Cornelius went on to say that as his first ccrament, as Chairman of the Board of Fire Comnissioners, is that the Board of Fire Ccmmissioners supported an increase in paid manning two years ago, the City put money in the contingency fund. The money stayed in the contingency fund, it was not used to fund any additional positions. We were told, wait until the Town representatives are added to the Board and have them take a look at the manning issue. Then cone back with a reccnmendation. The tvro people from the Town of Ithaca were added to the Board. The unanimous conclusion was the same, additional career manning was needed in the Ithaca Fire Depairtment. To date, still no additional people in the Fire Department. Mr. Cornelius went on to say, it has been brought about the fire the other night on Aurora and State Street. The Board of Fire Canmissioners asked for 22 positions in this years budget. If we had gotten all those positions that would have added, at most, three fire fighters to that fire. We had a hundred there including volunteers and mutual aid corpanies so any thought that we are trying to institute an all paid department in the City is nonsense at this point. Just point two additional would have given us three more at that fire and that would not have been on the initial call probably because scarte of them would have been spread out in outlining stations. In throwing out seme figures of over 3,000 alarms for the year, 1,000 of than are IMS calls, most of Wiich volimteers do not respond to. There are a total of 216 fires, actual fires, and an average volunteer response to those are 5. A minimum response of 0, a maximum response of 19 to any one of those alarms on an average. We had 1,580 total false calls. Average volxmteer response to those is 3, maximum 14. One of the big things that he has seen that is a change over the past ten years is that a decrease in the bunkers has stayed, live at the stations and respond with the apparatus. We tried to put together seme figures from ten years ago, from fifteen year ago and we really couldn't come up with any accurate figures in the short time that he had asked the staff to provide figures with. But his recollection ten years ago vhen he came in, was that each engine that responded out of the stations probably had at least two possibly three people riding on the engines along with the drivers. The drivers are lucky if they have anyone riding on the trucks with them right now. Part of the problem is that we are tying to remodel and build new Town Board Minutes 5 January 18, 1989 stations to help make bunking more attractive to people. However, money again got in the way. The architects came up with a figure, tried to slice it down, make it more palatable, spent about a year jockeying back and forth, ended up back with the same original price. Those stations were supposed to have been corpleted a month ago. The architect hasn't even finished the drawings yet, to go out to bid. It didn't make a lot of sense to try to go out and try to recruit bunkers if we weren't going to have a place to put them. Having stations torn apart or in the process of construction. This has hurt the number of people responding to alarms. We need to get the remodeling done, we need to build the new stations. We also, as a comiunity as a vhole, need to address traffic flow problems. The moving of fire apparatus and volunteers, if we are going to stick with volunteers, expect them to respond, they have got to be able to move through traffic, get across town. Get across the railroad tracks. Through the octopus, over the octopus. The Board of Fire Cotimissioners did not cone out with a specific support of any plan of the octopus, but his personal opinion, anything short of being able to get across the tracks v^en there is a train going through and multiple lanes of traffic so people can get around the cars that are moving is irresponsible on the part of the people that have to make the decision on vMch plan they are going to support. It's in your hands now to decide vtet funding level you feel you can support. Mr. Cornelius went on to say that personally he was sorry he had signed the contract v^en he did. He stated that he had concerns at the time, that the contract did not address just these problems of manning, the additional alarms, the construction going on and it has proven that way. A bid delay in getting additional people. That hind sight, we can only work from here and try to improve the problem that is there. Thank you. Jeff Bangs stated that he was here tonight to support the Ithaca Fire Department's request for twenty-two additional personnel. He went on to say that as co-owner of Bangs Ambulance, Inc., he has found the medical assistance that the Ithaca Rescue Squad provides to the ambulance and to our cormunity invaluable. He stated that he was concerned that the increase in the number of calls and the cxirrent shortage in the number of fire fighters at these calls, that the Emergency Medical Service is going to be jeopardized. It will result in the reduction of quality and quantity of service that Bangs Ambulance and the Ithaca Fire Department can provide to our canmunity. The number of otergency calls grows each year. Ithaca Fire Fighters risk their lives to save peoples lives at fires and they save many more lives through the effoirts of the Emergency Medical Technicians. As a resident of Town of Ithaca, he stated he was asking the Town and City to support the hiring of more fire fighters. Mr. Bangs went on to say that further more he did not realize the total number. We are talking about, vdien Dave Cornelius just gave the figure of 1,000 EMS calls, we are talking life and death situations at times. If you want to jeopardize that, that's v^at the main concern is here. concern. Scott Gingras, First Lieutenant for Corpany #5 stated that before he read the statement he had he would like to give an account of the first ten minutes or so of the fire at the comer of State and Aurora. He stated that he was inside with another fire fighter searching the third floor and we came upon a trapped victim. The victim did not want to go to the window to get in the bucket truck with Chuck Fish. As he entered the room the window was being broken out by Chuck. The man was very frightened, he did not want to go to the window. Chuck Fish would have had to left the bucket, went into the room and brought the guy back out but then there is Town Board Minutes 6 January 18, 1989 nobody in the bucket to help him out there. So, there we are with one guy in a bucket trying to make a rescue. Mr. Gingras went on to say that the January 12th fire was undoubtly devastating for many Ithaca residents. It is time for the City and the Town of Ithaca to take a serious look at the problem it has with the shortage of fire fighters. Since he was the first fire fighter in the East State Street building, he was able to evaluate the extent of the fire in that structure. He and two fire fighters entered the building, the fire at that time was on the second floor in the rear. After about two minutes of fighting the fire he called for an increased amount of water and another hose line. His tactic here was to knock the fire down on the second floor and then place one line on the third floor to check for extension. The line on the second floor would have kept the fire from reentering the building. A.11 was going well v^en one of the low pressure valves on one of the fire fighters air pack rang telling him to get out. This left only two of us to fight the fire. He stated that he abandoned one of the hoses and tried to assist Fire Fighter Tony Scaglione with his line. He stated that he then called Command and requested more manpower. His answer was a very fri^tening, "tb»r® isn't anyone". At this point we could no longer advance the line because he did not want to leave Fire Fighter Scaglione all alone in the room. He stated that he called Command and told them we were going to abandon our position in the building. This was done because of the lack of manpower. Not because the fire was overpowering us. Mr. Gingras went on to say that it was his belief that they could have stopped the fire in that building. He stated that he felt it was unsafe for only two people to fight the fire with no one on a hose line to protect them. We could have prevented the entire loss of the building. Chief Olrastead's and the Fire Fighters Union's request for twenty-two new men is not an unreasonable request for the safety of our citizens, our fire fighters and the buildings in the City and Town of Ithaca we must meet this request. Thank you. Eleanor May, stated that she was a resident of the Town of Ithaca and she stated that perhaps she misunderstood vtot you meant by a hearing because vtot she brought were questions that she did not understand frcm \^at she read in the paper. Mrs. May stated that she had a false alarm, fortunately, called to her house in the last few years from the Fire Department and she was not here because she did not appreciate the services of the Fire Department or recognize their value. Mrs. May stated that her husband did serve on the Master Planning between the Town and the City and it was her understanding that an agreement was made that there was no more fii^ fighters needed, that none would be hired for five years. If this was correct, she stated that she would be interested in knowing vtot has changed in the Town and City since that agreement was made to now merit twenty-two new eaniployees. Mrs. May went on to say that her second question was, her husband is an employer and he paid his oiployee v^o did not come promptly to work after being up all night at the fire as a person from another fire company vdio came to assist. She stated that she wondered v^t is done to encourage employers in the Town to release volunteers to a fire and to pay them v^en they obviously can't stay up all night at a fire and then come an work all day. Fire Chief Edward Olmstead remarked that he wanted to take a few minutes to try and, as he thought he had individually with both the Common Council and the Town Board to try to put sane things in perspective in terms of vtot's happening here tonight. The Chief stated that it has taken us 19 months to get to this meeting. The original request from the Board of Fire Commissioners came to the Town Board Minutes 7 January 18, 1989 Ccnroon Council in i^ril of 1987 about personnel increases that caitie about as a result of much work within the Fire Department. It was a process of consensus involving the career and volunteer personnel of the Department and ultimately the Board of Fire Ccmmissioners. It was done because in the Fire Master Planning process that took place, one of the most difficult issues that that cotroittee faced or that group faced, was the issue of people. Paid people, volunteer people, bunker people. It took up much of the discussion time. When that Master Planning Process took place for the majority of the process the Board of Fire Ccninissioners, and it was a different Board, by their choice did not participate in that process. So largely the decisions that came out of the Fire Master Planning were the decisions of the representatives of the City of Ithaca and the Town. It was only at the very end of those discussions that the Board of Fire Caimissioners began to take a participative role in that discussion. When the contract was signed, the Mayor, the Town Supervisor and he knew the Ccnroon Council heard from him very specifically that the contract had failed to address the most significant issue that faced the Fire Department v^ich was the people issues. And yet vtot we had before us was probably the best deal we could get and the understanding was that the personnel discussions would continue. Chief Olmstead went on to say that in April of '87 \^en we came to the Ccnroon Council we came with a phase in plan that would extend over a rairber of years to acccnplish the personnel needs of the Fire Department. One of the things that has happened in the ensuing discussion is that many people have taken the position that all are talking about is adding paid personnel to the Fire Department. Our need for personnel includes all kinds of people. Career personnel, volimteer personnel and the bunkers. The contract requires that the Board of Fire Ccnmissioners ccme to you and request the addition of paid personnel and we have been doing that for scmetime new. But we can't ccroe to you and ask you to give us more volunteers and yet ^en we ccme to you and ask for support in the budget for itens in the budget v^ch effect all of the msnbers of the Fire Department, scmetimes directly volunteers but mostly all of the members of the Fire Department it is a struggle frcm the time we make the request until it is granted to ajprove that. And on major items we have to do it twice because we have to go both to the Ccmmon Council and then to the Town Board. We have to get that joint agreement. We also can't ask you for more bunkers, again that's our recruitment program. But vtot we do ask for you is for the space and accorroodations and as Ccnroissioner Cornelius pointed out, the one and only factor that has ham strung our attCTipt to get the bunkers program back on line as been over a year of debate by the City and Town on the renovations on the existing fire stations and the construction of new fire stations. The word "no" has never ccme frcm the Board of Fire Ccnmissioners. The word "no" or let's wait has ccme once we get outside the front doors. He stated that he felt there was a need to understand that in trying to make this Fire Department functional and operational to keep up with the added demands in growth we need more of all of the people and we acknowledged scmetime ago that we were not about to try and make up the total need in anyone of the three areas. The number of paid personnel that we are requesting no ^ere ccmes close to addressing the minirrium number of people required to operate this department, successfully and safely. The Chief went on to say, we are dealing here with a very specific safety issue, a very limited scope. If we added twelve fire fighters to the roster, v^ich is our request, that would net out to slightly less than three per shift with the balance made up by overtime and because of the distribution of the stations and the number of calls you don't get all three of those people to the call. We are actively recruiting more volunteers and yet the sheer ••I Town Board Minutes 8 January 18, 1989 number of volunteers we would have to irecruit to make up for the increase in calls for the decline in volimteer participation and the loss of numbers, the numbers in the hundreds, not in the dozen or so that we were able to recruit after several months. Because out of the hundreds that you recruit, in the first two years 75% are gone and that is not ovir figure that is a national figure. The ability to retain volunteers is a national problem. We have give you paper upon paper upon paper that documents that problem. In the 1990 budget he stated that he guarantees you that you are going to see a request from the Fire Department that is measured in hard dollars and cents to financially support the volunteers in a very specific way. The Governor has recently signed a length of service awards program vdiich is a retirement syston for volunteers. You can also be e3q)ected to start considering health insurance and health care programs for your volunteers and that costs money. We are trying to get more bunkers in the Fire Department and yet the same thing is true there, you cannot reasonably escpect the 35 to 40 people vdio will live in the stations to go to all of the calls of the calls that we go to and that is one of the features of this vdiole renovation that those people will be on duty schedules. And we are only going to get seme of the initially. Oh yes, if we have a major problem we can call back and say get here seme way but we are talking atout those critical first minutes of a call. And so that we utilize our people in different ways then we did ten years, twenty years or one hundred years ago i^en there were fewer calls. He stated that he thought you also have to keep in perspective in looking at this \(diole issue of paid and volunteer and he guessed he couldn't tell you how distressed and disappointed and discouraged he was to read the article in the paper. How much different it would have been if the Mayor would have shewn strong support for the Fixe Chief instead of using the innuendo of the rumor that he was out to make this a volunteer Fire Department. The very nature of a combination Fire Department is a deviceive syston. You have people \(dio extensively perform the same job and yet have those people operating under different sets of standards. There are different training standards, there are different discipline standards, there are different operational standards and in seme cases there are no standards at all. Chief Olmstead went on to say that viien he was appointed Fire Chief one of the very clear demands and priorities from all people was that we work very hard to make this one fire department. And so if you are going to acccxrplish that \tot you have to do is take this deviceive elements and try to minimize them, to try to get away frcm them. Since 1985, three out of every four new employees we have hired are active volunteers. In the last round we hired two Fire Chiefs of volunteer fire departments and one Assistant Fire Chief. That makes a very strong ccmmitinent to trying to keep that feeling of a combination system very strong. It's not an easy task under the best of circumstances in this ccrabination system to make it work because there are always seme people in a combination organization v^ether it's in Ithaca or Canandaigua or somev^ere out in the mid-^west, there are always elements of people in both paid and career vAio are against each other. But they are a very small percentage. He stated that he called them a silent minority, they meet in secret, they don't confront the truth in the cpen. In 1957, the Board of Fiire Commissioners had a choice to make for Fire Chief in the City of Ithaca and there were two candidates. There choice was very clear, they chose the candidate vdio was not acceptable because he was out to make this into an all paid fire department, he was going to get rid of the volunteers. They appointed the person v^o was preconceived as somebody who wanted to keep the system the way it was and that person was a very sincere and dedicated individual and he was Fire Chief for one year and after one year he said he had had enough of the politics he wanted to be a fire fighter again and he resigned as Fire Chief. So the Town Board Minutes 9 January 18, 1989 Board was left with only one choice vdiich was the person they didn't want but he was the only choice. And he was appointed amongst all of those rumors that he was going to turn this into an all paid fire department. And that person was (Charles Weaver. And everybody recognizes today that he had a very strong camiitment to this combination department. Chief Olmstead stated that v^en he was appointed in 1985, the same rumor surfaced again. There were people vho tried very hard to keep me from being appointed because they said that he wanted to make this into an all volunteer Fire Department. And those rumors are surfacing again, and they are surfacing from the same group of people vho just sinply can't face the truth of \*tot they can't do a thing about. They can't face the reality. They can't face the fact that may be after a 165 years this Fire Department needs to change some of the way if does some of its things. We still have a strong carmitment to a combination Fire Department. We are here tonight to talk to you about twenty-two more people, twelve fire fighters, five lieutenants, a Deputy Chief, a Fire Protection Engineer, two Codes Specialists and a Volunteer Coordinator. Because that is the only thing that we can talk to you folks about. We can talk to you about more QTiployees. We are out there working very hard to take care of the other two-thirds of the department and we are going to be asking you to support that financially. But he did not want anjtody to construe this discussion as a move to make this into a paid Fire Department. If we were going to try to make it into a paid Fire Department, then a request would be for more than 100 people inroediately and would go beyond that. We simply aren't out to do that. We are out here to try to keep the system vAiich has worked so well, continuing to function. We can't keep it functioning by standards that were set 50 years ago. Thank you. jQima Macera, 125 West Green Street remarked that most of the fire tioicks go past her house. She asked vdiat percent of the fire trucks that go past her house go to Cornell? Chief Olmstead replied, 20%. Ms. Macera replied, and Cornell contributes toward the fire protection? SipervLsor Desch replied seme. Chief Olmstead replied, 2% of the budget. Dcminick Cafferillo replied, $106,000. Ms. Macera asked, vhat percentage of the 18% of fires calls do they contribute? Supervisor Desch replied, if they paid for calls, 20% of three million dollars would be $600,000 roughly. Ms. Macera asked, how may go up to Ithaca College, vtot percent? Chief Olmstead replied, 11%. Ms. Macera replied, are they paying? Supervisor Desch replied no, nothing. Ms. Macera asked, vhat was being done to get them to pay? Supervisor Desch replied, that are a lot of things being done. He stated that this was a very appropriate question and he would put it on the table in case other people wished to ccmnent. Town Board Minutes 10 Januairy 18, 1989 As no one else present wished to speak, the St:^)ervisor closed the public hearing. Supervisor Desch reariarked that the first question he would like to ask for clarification was, the $130,000 that is in the contingency budget, would saneone please explain a little bit v^t that is for? Mayor Gutenberger replied, basically it is for a request for five people for fire fighters and he thought one staff person. It is for enough money to take us frcm a point of hiring through the end of the year since they wouldn't be hired for twelve months out of the year. Alderman Schlather replied, it's actually five and one-half. Four fire fighters, one staff person and a half-time volimteer coordinator. Supervisor Desch replied, that he heard the number, frcm David Cornelius, of $260,000 how does that relate to the $130,000 other than being twice? Alderman Schlater remarked, that his understanding was that in this statement there is a request that the Town meet this but that is not actually vtot the City's request is. The City is sinply requesting that the Town join with the City in authorizing the increased roster by those five men positions. Then your bill will be coming to you in 1991. Supervisor Desch replied, in other words if the Town Board were to approve the five and one-half positions it would simply be a matter of the City making a budget transfer frcm contingency to the Fire Department budget and that would be done? Dcminick Cafferillo replied, right. Ben Nichols, Alderman ronarked that in the discussion all should realize that what both the volunteers and the paid and the Chief are saying is that this is only a first step down the line to what is really needed and he thought that ought to be kept in mind. This has to be done now and he hoped the Town Board would approve it but he thought you could rationally expect that the Board's must look down the line and ask vtot are we going to need in the next few years beyond that. He did not know if this could be done tonight but that has to be part of the process. Sipervisor Desch replied, that sounds like a joint planning effort of seme sort that perhaps should begin fairly soon. Supervisor Desch went on to say that there were things that he would like to take issue with, both in David's (Cornelius) and Ed's (Olmstead) case. He stated that he was a little bit surprised to leam there has been a, he stated that he hated to use the word moratorium, but a hiatus in hiring bunkers because of this delay in the construction of the fire stations. That's news to him. He went on to say that the thing that he would like to take issue with Ed is that his understanding of the debate with respect to the budget for the fire stations ended in May of 1988. We are still waiting for the project to get conpleted. He stated that he did not think anyone expected it to take as long as it has so that he was not sure you could call it a debate. Certainly the Town hasn't been involved with delaying it from one day beyond the May 24th public hearing v^ere after a long discussion we increased the construction budget. He stated that he just wanted to make that clear for the record. He asked if there was in fact a hiatus in hiring bunkers because there is no place to put them? Town Board Minutes 11 January 18, 1989 Chief Olmstead replied, we have been under the same, he felt the same idea as ever^^ody that the plans were around the comer and the fact simply is that when this \^ole project kicks off there just isn't going to be any place for these folks to stay. And so we are dealing in a situation where people cane to college for a four year or three year cormitment, most cases after their first year, and it's a housing issue with these folks. It's pretty tough if part way through the senester we say we got no place to keep you. We siirply don't have the space and that was in the initial plans that we were going to start our vdiole program up in the Fall of 1989, bring the people in have them trained so that \dien the stations were there we could bring them in. Wie have kept our conmitments to the people we presently have there and will provide space for them but we can't extend it beyond that. We make it up in the meantime on part time contracts mostly through the volunteer corpanies of people v^o cone in and bunk on a less frequent basis. Mayor Gutenberger remarked that it seemed to him that a year ago or a couple of years ago we had figures of runs to Ithaca College in the 20% area, 23%, on this sheet we have tonight it says Ithaca College runs are only 6%. Chief Olmstead replied, we have been working very closely with both Cornell and Ithaca College to deal with the alarm system prc±)lQns. The case of Ithaca College there was a change of personnel and seme rather aggressive work to strai^ten up a lot of the alarm system problems. Cornell is engaged, and we have done the same thing with them and identified target buildings, and actually systan wide last year versus this year we have about a 4% reduction in false alarms. So there has been a coimitment on our part and the decrease in Ithaca College has been quite dramatic. Mayor Gutenberger asked if there was any correlation then between the very substantial decrease in the number of calls at Ithaca College... Chief Olmstead added, the percentage of decrease, he thought the number of calls and he stated that he would go back and take a look at the 1987 gross nxmiber... Alderman Nichols stated that he had the numbers if the Chief wanted them. Chief Olmstead asked, \tot was the gross 1987 nuinber for Ithaca College? Alderman Nichols replied, 328 for 1987 and it's down to 210 for 1988. Chief Olmstead remarked, it's down about 100 calls. Alderman Nichols remarked, the big reduction is in false calls from 291 to 184. Chief Olmstead continued saying that Ithaca College has very aggressively prosecuted people who were caught pulling false alarms, there have been expulsions, there was an arrest made toward the end of 1988 that cleared up about fifteen alarms that we have been called to, so there has been an extremely aggressive program by the College to deal with malicious but more specifically with a lot of system problems they had up there. They've put a lot of money into the systems. They have fewer systems and less carplicated systems than the University does so it is a little easier for them to deal with these problems. Town Board Minutes 12 January 18, 1989 Mayor Gutenberger reniarked that again on the figures we have tonight, and he was going to round than off, but the way he reads it out of the total number of all responses the 3,368 about 1,580 or roughly 50% were sane type of false. C3iief Olmstead replied, that's correct. Mayor Gutenberger continued, and out of that 50%, again roughly, 725 or roughly 50% were on the two caitpuses. Chief Olmstead replied, that is correct. Mayor Gutenberger continued, stating that it sounded to him that the biggest chunk of our work is in false alarms and the biggest culprits or the biggest contributors are the two campus ccmraunities. Chief Olmstead replied yes, and he thought that if you took a look at the.... a couple of things that say about false calls, the preponderance of false calls particularly on the Cornell Campus is a function of over 350 alarm systems on the campus. He stated that he has said this before and he would say it again, Cornell spends a lot of bucks on physical plant detection and suppression systems as a result of a dormitory fire where nine people died and they made a ccmmitment both in their living units and their academic buildings to try to prevent that from happening. So he thought there had been a trade of the type of business. There is also a reality that if you take any chunk of that business out of there you want to take out, you will still end up with more net calls for the Fire Department then the first year of this contract. You will cone up with more than 2,000 calls. Sean Killeen remarked to the Fire Chief, can we also compute from vAiat you are saying that viiere Cornell could be moire aggressive as Ithaca College has been, there could be a comparable reduction in calls, response? He remarked that he did not want to put words in the Chief's mouth. Chief Olmstead replied that he believed that Cornell was being aggressive and there has been an increased effort on the part of the University on new system design. In fact on some of the new buildings they have literally gone through and replaced all the critical elenents of the systan because they would not pass our tests and our inspection. Where buildings have been identified as problems they have been just as aggressive. But again, you are dealing with a city of 25,000 up there and a city of 6,000 on South Hill so he felt you needed to keep that in context in terms of the numbers of buildings, the numbers of populations, the numibers of systems. It's just going to breed more of that type of activity as veil as more legitimate fire business. Sean Killeen remarked that he thought the Chief was saying that Ithaca College was using more educational means to pronote the concept of fooling around with fire alarms was bad business. Chief Olmstead replied no, it been largely technological. Ithaca College is using largely technological means to deal with system problans. They are also very aggressive in prosecuting the malicious false alarms but if you take a look at the malicious false alarm rate on the Ithaca College Caitpus it's a percentage, it's about two and a half times more. He stated that he was not looking at numbers but he thought the rate was about two to two and one-half times higher than the Cornell campus. So there is a higher degree of social responsibility on the Cornell Campus. We had a particular problem at Cascadilla Hall and we met with the dormitory and the University officials and he stated that he was up Town Board Minutes 13 January 18, 1989 there and we went through floor by floor because of a series of problems we had. Councilman Klein asked, if Cornell were to create their own fire depai±ment, v^t effect would that have? Chief Olmstead replied, it wouldn't diminish anything that we are about here. That was the thing that he had said, if you took a chunk out of this, if you took anyone of those chunks, if would take the Town out, if you took Cornell out, if you took Ithaca College out, the numbers of responses that we are left with, as a Fire Department, still is a large number of responses. That would be just that that many less calls that we have, but if you take a look at vtot that does it drops us back a few years, may be four to five years, but we don't go back dramatically. Supervisor Desch asked if any of the Town Board members or Ccninon Council members have any insight as to the question with respect to contributions from either Ithaca College or Cornell? Alderman Richard Booth replied that he thought the only insite and he did not think it comes as a surprise to anyone is v^at we have is probably v^t we are going to see in the foreseeable future. So it is incumbent on us as municipal officials to made decisions accordingly. He stated that he did not think the heavens are going to open on East Hill and that lots and lots of new money was going to appear. He stated that he woxild like that to happen but he thought that was unrealistic to expect in the near future that that was going to happen and he thought the Boards needed to go ahead and make the decisions that are responsible for manning the Fire Department in accord with vdiat the Department and the Board of Fire Catmissioners have asked. Supervisor Desch replied, it doesn't appear that there is any likelihood of State legislation right now, does it? Alderman Nichols remarked that he did not think it took the burden off of the City frcm pressuring Cornell or the Town frcm pressuring Ithaca College. We each have our own responsibilities. Councilman Klein remarked that he supposed legally they can't be taxed. Is there any legality to a fine for system malfunctions, are there any mechanisms? Supervisor Desch replied, the Fire Master Planning Ccnmittee spent many, many hours considering vhat we called an Alarm Ordinance similar to the City of Rochester. It's on the table in both municipalities. Administratively there are seme difficulties. Alderman Schlather replied that he did not have any recent information but at the time it seened like a very realistic prospect. There was seme concern raised 1^, he believed the Fire Chief, that anything that penalizes malfunction will encourage shut-off and, therefore, we shouldn't put in such a system or impose such legislation. He stated that he was not so sure that today we shouldn't take another look at this. He stated that he knew Supervisor Desch and himself, there was a s\abccramittee that actually hammered out this proposed ordinance. It is on the table and we probably could resurrect it and take another look at it because he felt it was ceirtainly worth talking about again, he thought. Supeirvisor Desch remarked, well one of the reasons that the Town adopted the Sprinkler Ordinance was because of the heavy amount of construction both at Ithaca College and Cornell. We felt that the investment in capital construction is out stripping our ability to Town Board Minutes 14 January 18, 1989 gear forces to respond to alarms, v^tever type. This was one of the major concerns not only in life safety but the sheer weight on the taxpayer. Councilwcman Raffensperger remarked that v^ile she understood the we can't tax Cornell and Ithaca College, ccnmunities around other universities have used seme innovative moves to not only bring in financial support but volunteer support. The State University in Albany bills, to its students on its tioition bills, an optional charge for the emergency services it provides to the university. In doing this as an optional charge the university is encouraging it and additionally it provides a kind of public relations effort to get the university services. It not only encourages the students to make that optional contribution but it also enlists volunteers. She stated that she did not know how the mechanism is arranged there but she did know that they still do it and she wondered if the Board might not look into, not only for the financial support but for encouragement of the participation of the students. Supervisor Desch asked Coiancilwcman Raffensperger if she had any idea how much the City of Albany collects? Councilvonan Raffensperger replied that she did not know that it was the City of Albany because this is the caitpus that is on the outskirts of the City, she thought it might be the Town there, however, the last she knew the charge was $5.00 per semester per student. Her impression was that most of the students seemed to do it as a matter of course, put in with a lot of other little fees. Jerama Macera remarked, vdiy an option? She stated that it was not an option for her to pay her taxes. She stated that she did not want to lose her house because she could not pay her taxes. Sean Killeen stated that he felt it was necessary to keep seeking financial fund contributions from Cornell and Ithaca College but what we want the money for is personnel, trained personnel. These two educational institutions have an abundance of people and have a certadln capacity and capability in education v^ch is kind of like training. So we shouldn't lose sight of asking Cornell for these things as well. Historically, Cornell and Ithaca College as \jellf historically there is reluctance to give money because they don't have to and once they start... .he stated that he understood their reluctance clearly. Also, it is a good strategy to ask someone in a couple of different ways \dien you want something from them. Give thou a choice of giving and giving mechanisms. But for sure the 25,000 population conmunity on Cornell is capable of generating more people to participate in the fire fighting responsibility of this catmunity than their not contributing. We let them off the hook he felt, far too easily by simply asking for money and training. Ef® training and all the other kinds of training we need for a ready, capable fire service. It's right down their alley. Those are the kinds of things and he did not think that they should wait until the renovations are done on the fire houses to ask for bunkers, there is a vrtiole variety of kinds of capable people on both those hills \dio probably would be willing to participate in this connunity responsibility if asked in a variety of ways. He felt this was the task in front of the Boards. Mayor Gutenberger stated that he had one other question on the figures he asked, on the EMS calls are the volunteers or the volunteer fire filters called on the EMS calls? Chief Olmstead replied, on most emergency medical calls, health related things, life threatening calls, such as heart attacks, strokes, volunteers are not alerted for that. Where there is a Town Board Minutes 15 January 18, 1989 call involving an accident or a rescue, yes, because we are doing more than just emergency medical services. We are doing extractions, we are doing other types of rescue operations and requires more personnel. EveryvAiere from a body retrieval in the gorge to an accident out on 13. Mayor Gutenberger remarked, then the number of volunteers that might be called on EMS calls is a rather small poirtion of the total EMS calls? Chief Olmstead replied, yes. Mayor Gutenberger continued, the point that he wanted to make was that and this is for the wear and tear on the volunteer system in this comtunity, if by and large, and again he was rounding off the numbers, if the volunteer system is by and large not used for the EMS calls, out of the 3,400 alarms total and you s\:ibtract the 1,000 EMS calls you are down to 2,400 calls of vdiich the volunteers would most likely he called. Out of that 2,400 calls that the volunteers would be expected to respond to, 1,600 of those are false calls. He stated that vhat he was trying to do was make a better case for the two caitpuses to be involved. Soneone remarked that sane of the EMS calls could be false alarms too. Mayor Gutenberger went on to say that the point he was trying to make was that the wear and tear on the volunteer system going to non-fire situations, EMS calls also, the biggest bulk of that wear and tear is again back on the campuses and if you subtract the EMS out it is even worse, about 1,600 calls out of 2,400 calls that the volunteers are responding to are of non-fire type. You wonder viiy these men and wonen get burned out in the volunteer system. And a good share of those false calls burning out the volunteer system are on those campuses. Chief Olmstead replied, the false calls on the caitpises are not 1,500 or 1,600. Mayor Gutenberger replied no, total. Chief Olmstead continued, the false calls include Titus Towers and the schools. City Hall, Town Hall, we have had calls in all of. those places that were false. Mayor Gutenberger replied that he didn't make his point, the point he was making earlier on the false calls was that the total was actually much worse if you subtract the EMS out of that. Chief Olmstead remarked that he thought you could look at this another way too and just deal with the 216 fire calls. In a staff meeting a few months ago in trying to wrestle with this issue, we are going to reach a point here. Either we get people or we are going to have to get out of stuff. We are going to have to get out of programs because we are trying to manage and operate to much right now and trying to deal with the safety issue the simple thing is to get rid of the safety issue, all we have to do is get rid of the 216 fire calls. Because that's vhat we have been talking about here, about the critical times that we face. That the most dangerous times that we face are v^en we have fires. If you want to take a Monday morning look at false calls v^ere you show up and there is nothing going on so there is no risk. He stated that he was not talking about conventional wisdom that you have to treat every call like it was the real thing. Most of these other calls that we do and are able to do with reduced numbers of people. But for those 200 plus calls vdiich are legitimate fires of one type or Town Board Minutes 16 January 18, 1989 another, those are the times when are people are at a greatest risk and the majority of those calls occur in dwellings. The Town tried to deal with those problems in their Sprinkler Ordinance and got a pretty resounding "shelacing" on getting the dwellings out of here. Supervisor Desch remarked not really, the only thing that has been changed is the detached single and two family. Chief Olmstead continued, if we could take the fire calls out of this then a lot of the safety issue would disappear. Si:5)ervisor Desch ronarked to the Chief that seme of his statistics have made reference to trying to increase the staffing, the manning levels from the 8 to 11 per shift. Chief Olmstead replied, 11 to 14. Minimum manning from 8 to 11, total manning frcm 11 to 14. Supervisor Desch questioned last Thursday's fire there was a discussion about there being five, he asked if there was another call at the same time that took the other three away or was there an EMS call or was that typical. Chief Olmstead replied, the initial structural response was three engines, a ladder truck and a coimand vehicle. There was an additional engine called to the scene. That left the City with two engines and a ladder truck. The incident cormander in each and every case makes a determination based on vtotever else is going on, v^ether he is going to call that stuff in and ccrannit it or not. Because we have left three people to protect the rest of the vdiole ar^. Supervisor Desch remarked, so you had three people essentially on stand by. Chief Olmstead replied yes, and at seme point they were committed either one way or another to the fire so that's v^en mutual aid was called in. We kept covering and backfilling. Councilwcman Raffensperger stated that she was going to propose a motion to amend the Fire Contract with the City of Ithaca to share the responsibility of adding five and one-half fire fighters. She went on to say, however, that her concern was that the material presented to her justifies this action, she was concern that the Boai?ds have a more ccnplete stack of plans devised by a smaller group than a cast of thousands. Perhaps two mattbers of the Town Board, two menbers of Ccramon Council, three Fire Cotmissioners. She stated that she did not have any great devotion as to how this was made up but with vhatever other manbers that seem wise. To try to make decisions by the vhole Ccramon Council, the vhole Board is extremely difficult and she felt that that group should be asked to develop for us a standing plan v^ch includes the professional and the volunteering including the budgets and that need to be referenced to location, to function, the cost and the timing. And also, she stated that she had received all kinds of wonderful information over the past months from the Fire Department and she continually reads about recommendations for such a staffing plan, requests for recoaimendations for inproving the volunteer system to include senior citizens, women vto might participate in the EMS services more than is being presently done and an enhanced role for the veteran volimteer association. Perhaps in responding to sane of the legislative proposals that were made \^ich she understood this community made no response to or had absolutely no representation. She stated that she would like to move the short resolution but with the understanding that, as she felt, a great Tcfwn Board Minutes 17 Januaa^ 18 / 1989 deal more needs to be done before another seventeen or twenty or twenty-two are hired. Supervisor Desch asked Councilwonan Raffensperger if she had a time frame? Councilworaan Raffensperger replied, no she did not. She stated that she assumed that that money was in contingency and that there was seme kind of a timing scheme within the City and she did not need to overcome that. S\:pervisor Desch remarked that he meant as far as the plan was concerned, not the resolution. Councilwoman Raffensperger replied no, that she would hope that the Boards would receive at least some kind of initial information within a period of six months. By that time some of the questions that still remain as far as the new fire houses and the renovations will be at least initially addressed and we can have some idea of staffing that will be necessary for those renovated or newly built facilities. Si:pervisor Desch remarked, you have the budget cycle caning on as well so that would dovetail. He asked the Fire Chief if this would dovetail with him v^en he spoke of the need to commit hard dollars for volunteers, tonight. Chief Olmstead replied, that would be part of the operating budget. He stated that he guessed he had other questions vMch is in response to some of that and it relates to a plan for staffing. He felt this was the appropriate place to ask a question which has come up at the Board meetings. He stated that he would say this for the Board, the Board of Fire Commissioners, under the City Charter, is charged with exactly vhat you are suggesting be done. And they have done it at least twice in the past 19 months. He asked, are you suggesting that the power of the Board of Fire Commissioners be in some way diminished because you are suggesting three Board members, there is a Board of five Fire Cormissioners with two from the Town and three from the City and again with a specific charge to do exactly vtot you are saying. He stated that he wondered if this wasn't a run around the Board. Councilwoman Raffensperger replied no, by no means and in fact if all wish to participate that would be fine. She guessed that the focus was that members of the Town Board and Common Council be involved in this process early on so that you, the Board of Fire Coimissioners, Mr. Cornelius and anyone else doesn't feel that some how or another the decision making is delayed by the need to ej^lain every proposal and every staffing need and every plan to various committees, to various Boards. So that we have a better liaison with the Board of Fire Commissioners and the Fire Department. Si:^)ervisor Desch remarked, aren't you really calling for vtot Dave Cornelius has asked for? In your statement you said we need to cormit ourselves to a plan not only for vhatever we do tonight but for the full commitment of v^at needs to be done, both volunteer... .he stated that he was not sure but he thought it was Dave, if he remembered right. Councilwoman Raffensperger replied, it seems a way to accomplish it and it might cut down on some of the David Cornelius stated that he felt it was somev^t reluctant to junp> on the band wagon because we have kind of done that before. And to get a couple of representatives from each committee and we Town Board Minutes 18 January 18, 1989 passed out all of the details and came back with a proposal and then the vdiole Ccnroon Council and the vdiole Town Board wants to go through the vdiole thing all over again anyway. Councilvonan Raffensperger replied, that was vAiat she was trying to avoid. David Cornelius contdLnued, that's \tot has happened. It happened with the Master Planning Cannittee. Councilwsman Raffensperger replied, that she had looked at the Mapping Subcatmittee report v^ch has a section in it on staffing needs. It seemed to her that it was very interesting and excellent but nobody went a step further to do the kind of detailed plan that she was talking about. This balance between volunteers, professional, bunkers, at \diat stations, how many per shift, etc., etc. All kinds of questions that she sees raised over several years and have not been answered or developed. David Cornelius replied, there were detailed proposals. If we had "x" number of paid people it would take "x" number of bunkers and "x" number of volunteers and if we had five more bunkers and ten more volunteers then it would take two less paid people per shift. There was a very detailed chart that charted that all out. Part of the new fire stations and renovations plans was based on trying to acconnodate and make bunking more attractive so that we could attract more people into the stations and to be able to put than in individually alarmed rocxns so that they wouldn't have to go on every call. They would only have to go on every third night or how many ever people we had. It seems like most of these questions, to his way of thinking, have already been addressed. Councilwcman Raffensperger stated that she was not trying to argue with Mr. Cornelius and really they were trying to get to the same place. But we seem to be in a place vdiere we don't seem to be able to make any decisions, even if we can make this one tonight. She stated that she did not see a mechanism in force that is going to lead any of us to make a decision for the rest of the kind of request that you made tonight. You may not like the specific suggestion but somebody is going to have to think of saneway to get there from here. Supervisor Desch remarked that he thought Councilwcman Raffensperger was saying that a year from now we don't want to hear that we have delayed the process for 19 months to do vhatever the next increnent should be. Alderman Rcmanowski replied that he thought everjhody has talked about the problem. Number one, any fire fighters of any kind of persuasion hired, it's going to be two years before the Town's contribution kicks in. The City, in other words is paying the shot for them right new, you are giving the City the go ahead. The City pays out of the contingency fund for the personnel. David is absolutely correct and he stated that he ccnmended him tonight for his presentation. But the problem is still dollars, Jerrma Macera said it, she has a nice house, she appreciates the fire company but she doesn't want to lose her house because of taxes. So v^t has happened over the past few years, David and the Board has done exactly v^t their job should be, they have called the shots exactly as they have seen them. We also, the Ccrnmon Council and now with the Town of Ithaca have to do the opposite, v^at can we afford, vdiat do we want to afford, vdiat do we want to pay for the service and v^iat kind of service do we want to pay for. So he stated that he believed that was the conflict, the conflict is not in knowing v^at is needed or v^at is wanted or vdiat is optimal the thing is how can we pay for it, how much can we afford to pay and Tcwn Board Minutes 19 January 18, 1989 that in a nut shell is vhat it is. We have known for the past few years, David (Cornelius). You have said it, been honest, the Board of Fire Cotmissioners have said vdiat we need, the fellows vho work for the Fire Conpany have said vhat they needed. But it ccmes down to how are we going to pay for it, you can only soak so much out of the taxpayers. There has to be a balance and that' s v^t' s happening. The tension is over curing the problems. Alderman Richard Booth stated that he served as a liaison between Ccmraon Council and Board of Fire Ccnmissioners and Bob (Rananowski) is right, the Fire Commissioners have done and are doing what they are supposed to. He stated that he thought Councilwanan Raffensperger's suggestion makes a great deal of sense, he felt there has to be a small group vdiich involves members of the political bodies of both of the decision making entities and and he thought that could be acccnplished in a reasonable period of time. That doesn't mean that that undues the work of the Board of Fire Ccmmissioners but he thought that that kind of process vhich Councilwoman Raffensperger has laid out and can be refined as we figure out vtot the membership should be makes a great deal of sense and we should go forward in that direction. Sipervisor Desch replied, should there not be a liaison from the Town Board to the Fire Caimissioners? Two voices replied, you have two. Supervisor Desch replied no, a liaison. Alderman Schlather ronarked, Councilwcman Raffensperger in your motion you referred to five and one-half fire fighters, are you referring to five and one-half positions that we had laid out - four fire fighters and one staff person? Supervisor Desch replied, we were trying to make it generic enough so that you would not trip over seme technicality . RESOLUTIOSr NO. 22 Motion by Councilwcman Raffensperger; seconded by Councilwcman Leary, RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca her^y authorize the amendment of the Fire Contract with the City of Ithaca to share the increased cost of adding five and one-half fire fighters. (Desch, Raffensperger, Bartholf, Leary and Klein voting Aye. Nays - none). Alderman Killeen asked about forming the committee tonight. Supervisor Desch felt the Board needed to think about it and get back. He suggested that the folks from the City get back to the Mayor and the members of the Town Board get back to him on their thoughts. Alderwcman Peterson stated that for those \dio like to come to meetings, the Human Services Committee on Tuesday night will be picking up the discussion on Cornell and Ithaca College's contributions to our fire services in more detail. Alderman Killeen remarked that on February 6 at 5:00 P.M., at Central Fire Station the New Fire Stations Ccnmittee will be looking at the long awaited specifications and blue prints from the Town Board Minutes 20 January 18, 1989 architect. The reason for the delay is, we spent so much time negotiating vtot the charge was to the architect that the architect got seme other clients and its taken all these many months. It's no loss of faith or loss of interest but because we took so much time deliberating we were moved into a kind of second tier position rather than priority one. Mr. Egner has other fish to fry but they are ccming out of his office within a week or so and we will lock at them. This is a public meeting, the Fire Catmissioners and the members of that Master Planning Ccninittee for new fire stations will meet. Alderman Schlather remarked that he would like to add that since our Human Services Cotmittee is going to be carrying on this discussion that they make a reccitinendation as to a follow up on Councilwcman Raffensperger' s suggestion and then send it to you folks and you can react to that. Supervisor Desch thank all for ccming and the City Alderman for being there and sharing their facilities. ADJOURNMEaSIT The meeting was duly adjourned. Town Clerk TOWN OF ITHACA NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING PLEASE TAKE NOTICE, that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and conduct a joint public hearing with the City of Ithaca on January 18, 1989, at 7:30 P.M., at Canmon Council Chambers, 108 East Green Street, Ithaca, New York, to determine vdiether to amend the Fire Contract with the City of Ithaca to share the increased cost of adding 5 and caie-half fire fighters and will at tliis time hear all persons for or against said proposal. Jean H. Swairtwood Town Clerk PUBLISH: January 12, 1989