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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB Minutes 1988-11-29TOWN OF ITHACA SPECIAL BOARD MEETING November 29, 1988 At a Special Meeting of the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca, Tcmpkins County, New York, held at the Town Hall, 126 East Seneca Street, Ithaca, New York, on the 29th day of November, 1988, there were: PRESENT: Noel Desch, Supervisor Henry McPeak, Councilman Shirley Raffensperger, Councilwcman Robert Bartholf, Councilman Patricia Leary, Councilwcman ABSENT: Thomas Cardman, Councilman ALSO PRESENT: Robert Flumerfelt, Town Engineer Nelson Roth, Town Attorney Richard Langendoerfer, 685 Coddington Road John Whitcarib, 233 Troy Road Jon Meigs, 235 Culver Road Representatives of the Media: Elvin Isenlin, WHCU Radio D. H. Debb, WTKO-WCNY PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The Sii^jervisor led the assemblage in the Pledge of Allegiance. PERSONS TO BE HEARD Richard Langendoerfer, 685 Coddington Road remarked, on this upccming thing of extra paid fireman. He stated that he was not going to sit here and say that we don't need the extra help. But he believes that we haven't done v^at we could have done or should have done, to increase our volunteer system and he felt it could be done. He stated that he had put down a few things that he feels are alternatives that could be used. He went on to say that a few years ago ^len he was Captain of Number 2's, Chief Wieaver presented to us a proposition for a Volunteer Fire Chief that would work with the Chief. Now this was shortly before he was retiring. He stated that he did not know exactly vhat his motives were behind this but he could assume he could see something like this coming down the road. He stated that he put in his report, a few things that he feels that would help. One of the problems, there is a gap between the paid and the volunteers that has existed for a good number of years. Over the years we have made changes in the fire system vhich has put us to the point \^ere seme of the stations were put into Central, into one station and we lost a lot of volunteers through that. Number 4's truck was taken away from them, their membership went way down to practically nothing. The stations that seem to be doing better with the volunteers seam to be stations like 7's vdio have their own building, their own truck and less involvement through the paid end around it. He felt that basically vhat volunteer Chief would be a liaison between your paid Chief and your Volunteer Fire Department and he would have ccnplete charge of Page 1 Richard Langendoerfer OCCUPATION Private family business, owner/operator of Help of Ithaca HISTORY: 23 years of volunteer fireman service, Ithaca, New York RESIDENCE: Homeowner, Coddington Road- Town of Ithaca REASONS TO PRESENTATION: Short and long term OBJECTIVES AND GOALS FOR FIRE PROTECTION WITHIN THE TOWN OF ITHACA. CONCERNS: 1. Adequate protection 2. Timely response to major incidents 3. Progressive increase of tax base, for homeowners, within the Town of Ithaca 4. Stabilize and expand volunteer fire fighting force CREATIVE ALTERNATIVES TO BE CONSIDERED: I. Volunteer fire chief. with administrative decision making power. A. Volunteer fire chief with equal decision making power, Ithaca paid fire chief, at all times, except a working fire, at which time he and volunteers, respond to orders, as provided by the paid fire chief. B. Volunteer fire chief: will be responsible for reei»-t4rfts>, scheduling required training, and monitoring Page 2 monitoring volunteer efficency standards, to meet identical standard of all paid fire personel with the Ithaca fire department. C. VOLUNTEER FIRE CHIEF will maintain alarm response. This would ensure attendance, and efficency of volunteer creative alternatives, to be considered. II. Ithaca paid and volunteer chiefs should meet regularly. A. To coordinate community fire management, education needs and concerns volunteer recruitment and incentives B. To thoroughly review and resolve, all internal concerns, as they apply to paid and volunteer fire f ighters. Additionally, paid fire fighters, must respect, and schedule training sessions, and related functions for volunteers, during hours which complement thier paid jobs, reconizing, volunteers provide a main contribution to the fire fighting force as well as the community at large. III. Volunteer Fire Chief to work closely with the Mayor of Ithaca, City Common Council, Town Board Supervisors, and paid fire chief , as a reconized member of The Mayors Page 3 Advisory Team. IV. mi FIRE STATIONS; A. Paid fire fighters drivers only B. Volunteer fire fighters will provide all fire fighting functions and station support services to be reenforced with paid fire fighters as needed. CREATIVE ALTERNATIVES TO BE CONSIDERED! V. BUDGET AGENDAS: A. Ithaca Fire Department Budget development input, must be provided by taxpayers residing within the town and or city of Ithaca, New York. VI. Corporate and non-profit institutional responsibility within City and Town of Ithaca. A. Local industries, and non-profit agencies to provide "in-kind" service personel to assist with fires within their immidiate locale, when extra unanticipated fire fighting staff is required. B. Employers to actively participate in the volunteer fighting system as a working advisory council. Page 4 This council will monitor and provide volunteer assistance in areas of the community with the highest request for services SUMMARY With continuous housing expansion and development in the outlying aresa of the city» Ithaca is quickly approuching the status of a **tenant** city. Unfortunately* this evolution leaves fewer and fewer volunteers to draw from* in times of need. Additionally we can no longer ignor the dwindling assistance of State and Federal dollars. Therefore* I am firmly convinced the need for volunteer recruitment will far exceed all our expectations. Creative alternative to be considered. SUMMARY In keeping with the original theme of my presentation* permit me to suggest a few creative alternatives* for your consideration: 1. New fire stations are to be operated with and by volunteer staff. 2. One paid fire fighter driver assigned to each station. 3. Encourage husband and wife fire fighting team participation. (The days of women only makeing and serving coffee have ended) . ' . Page 5 Families working together, helping others feeling good about themselves and each other tend to stay together. REMEMBER Each paid position you/we create is and will become a burden for future budgets and increased tax dollars. VOLUNTEERS ARE OUT THERE: Our citizens have repeatedly demonstrated their commitment in hundreds of ways. PRIDE must be reinstated within the volunteer fire fighting network. I*m certain, each of you are as concerned as I am,thus, with careful implementation of some of ra y suggestions,we can rekindle one of our most vital community services. OUR VOLUNTEER FIGHTING SYSTEM: Please accent my gratitude for providing me with this opportunitv Is. speak, and share my ideas. Should you have questions. 1 * 11 gladly answer them at this time. speak with you individually.or at your convenience. Thank You again. Town Board Minutes 2 November 29, 1988 the Volunteer Fire Department. He felt that any problems that arise at that time the Volunteer Chief would be responsible to Ccmmon Council, the Town and any conmittees, the same as the Chief is at that point. He stated that again he thought that by having either a Volunteer Chief like Charlie Weaver had expressed at that time or a liaison for scxnebody to pick up the problons that the volunteers are having and bring it to the proper authorities rather than the Chief. Mr. Langendoerfer went on to say that v^t he was trying to say was that there were problems in between there and if those problems are solved he was sure there would be plenty of volunteers out there to join. He stated that he had talked, in the last few days, to eight or nine people just in the Town of Ithaca and they are all willing to join and seme of them would like to join as husband and wife teams. They want to be in the new stations that are coming up and with a little bit more ccnmunity involvement into it, like things used to be in the past. The volunteers are out there, they have to be asked they can*t be thrown little cainrots or little annuities to get in and say okay, we will pay you so much. They really aren't interested in that but if you get them involved back into the community again and make the Volimteer Fire Department a community spirit thing, you are going to have the volunteers. He stated that down through his report he had listed some of the things v^ch he wouldn't go into, felt it would be better to leave it and let the Board read it. He went on to say that the other thing vdiich really bothered him right now is, the Ithaca Fire Department budget like all other budgets he felt should be put together by a person that has a direct influx on the budget, in other words, he should be a taxpayer of that community. He did not think a Fire Department budget should be put up by somebody v^o lives in another community and spends oiu: tax dollars v^en it really doesn't effect that person. The other thing that we have that we can draw volunteers from and he did a study back in 1970 on this, we have Ithaca College, Morse Chain, National Cash, all of these big industries up on South Hill and they have in their work force people vho cane from all over Tonpkins County. While they are on duty and they have m^ on shifts twenty-four hours a day, and he thought that in that, Morse Chain vho has their own fire department trained within the place, we could work something out with those places to help bring volunteers into the system so at least if there was a fire up on the campus or the major buildings they would have people there vho could work, work right in with the fire department and work on the working fire. There are two ways they could go about it, they could have in-house fire protection possibly give a little incentive to take five or six enployees each day and allow them to answer any alarms in the immediate area. For example, if it's Ithaca College and seme irrroediate area around there v^ere they could leave campus and go answer those fires and come back if they are a working fire. Seme kind of system v^ere the Chief could call in and say he needed extra numbers of volunteers and he was a half mile away from it, they could call them. Mr. Langendoerfer continued, now the two new fire stations that are going up, he presented a few years ago in Common Council, the idea of the new fire stations and the need for them and he was very h^jpy to see they were eventually coming to light. Along with that, at that time they realized the problem we were having with volunteers, that far back, and we felt that these stations going \:p could become part of the community. Cormunity involvement in it and if you get involvement into anything you are going to get one person asking another person to join and first of all you are going to have a pretty good force in either of these outlining stations, he was sure of that. He stated that he also made a promise to the Town that he would actively go out and solicit volianteers, v^ch he stated he would do for these areas. The other thing that worried Town Board Minutes 3 November 29, 1988 him tronendously, it is caning up at this time, once positions are made in the Fire Department and you open up more positions, six positions or vdiatever, they becone permanent positions there is no turning it around. We have right now, our State budget is in a mess and he was sure the Town realizes sane of this will trickle down in the amount of aid the City and Towns are going to get in the next year or two. The Federal Government with their trillion dollar bxodget deficit is going to have a lot of cuts made there and we know that, reasonably sure. They are going to be made in the catraunities around in sane of the services and so on and so forth. As the man said, read by lips no new taxes. He stated that he could only see down the road his taxes on his property raising to the proportion v^ere he could not afford to own his hane and he was sure that a lot of others are worried about the same thing. He stated that he wanted to thank the Board for allowing him to speak to the Board on this and again he put these position papers out so that he would not talk too long on it. Councilman McPeak asked Mr. Langendoerfer if he had spoken to Mr. Neigh about the supply of volunteers? Last month he stated that he had approximately twelve line up and does that include the number you have? Mr. Langendoerfer replied no, he had not talked to Mr. Neigh about that. Councilman McPeak asked Mr. Langendoerfer if he would? Mr. Langendoerfer replied that he sure would. He stated that he could get six and in his own business he had 32 enplqyees, of those 32 orployees 16 said they would join. One lives on West Hill, we have a couple on South Hill and a couple v^o live outside the Town of Ithaca area. We have always, if my men are on a job, and there is a working fire, at the time they are on a job, they are allowed to leave that job go to that working fire and help. But we have had sane problems in the past \^ch they feel they have been harassed at a working fire and there are other little things undermining always. He stated that he knew he was caning into this late and he had a couple of calls asking him to get involved into it because of the work he had done in the '70's on it. But he felt a little bit more restraint should be used before those positions are funded because they are there for good as you and I know. Councilwonan Raffensperger remarked, when you talk about fires you talk about working fires and non-working fires, one of the things we have heard here from the paid fire filters in the groups that have come is that v^en they answer there is only one man that goes and that this is unsafe. Now \^en you and I talked she stated that she got the impression that, and perhaps there is something that she misunderstood about this, that a call come in and the truck goes out and v^en it gets to the site of the fire then they know v^ether or not it's a working fire. Tell me then, how other personnel are called in, at that point. Mr. Langendoerfer replied, usually seme of the....there is only a few of than, he didn't know saying perhaps Mr. McPeak would know, there are only a very few of them that have pocket scanners. He had a man vdio has one, so \»^en an alarm comes in he is alerted to that alarm and if he is somev^ere's within a reasonable area of it he goes there. Now we are talking about one person showing up to an alarm, he stated that he has gone \^ere the fire trucks have gone out and he has gone to see v^ere they were going, although he cannot fight fires anymore, he stated that he would see that maybe after the fire trucks are coming back three or four or five blue lights heading in that direction. So he may get there but vdiere these people are caning faxm may not get there in time, they are Town Board Minutes 4 November 29, 1988 heading back and unless they go down and sign the book in the station v^ch seme of then don't take the time to do then they assume well we only had one person there, if there is only one name in the book. We had a couple of working fires the other night and he stated that he would be interested in the response and that he had always been curious v^ether the response figures were put in with the EMT figures vdiich the paid fire fighters go to only. If they are added in that will make it look a lot worse because the volunteers do not go to BMT calls, this he could not say for sure but he knew at one time it was done that way. Councilman McPeak remarked, the paid guy drives the truck so that's the one they are referring to. Councilwcman Raffensperger stated that she understood that but v^t the Board got a discussion of how really unsafe it is not to have two paid fire fighters to every call and she just wanted to understand this better. Mr. Langendoerfer replied, they really shoxild have more than twc because in the station you have your Assistant Chiefs, if the Chief isn't around, you have your lieutenants v^ch also should be responding along with it and of course your driver and at any given call there is at least two or three trucks so if it was something that they needed to man one truck at one time those drivers and lieutenants could help hook that up until the volunteers got there but response time is always a problem. The other thing that he felt was wrong was vAien they took the alarm system off at night. Now this alarm system would create a lot of volunteer response, yoimg and old. The alarm would come in they would hear it, if it was one or two o'clock in the morning, they would hear it, get out of bed and rush to the alarm. He stated that he did not feel that it made that much noise for the annergency that it created. He stated that he could remember way back in time vtei the alarm system went off at night, and in fact he thought it was on South Hill, the neighbor heard it, it woke him up, and he went over and got the people out of the house next door that was having the fire. He stated that he always felt that the alarm system was essential and it is essential to response. Councilman McPeak added, he thought the alarm system was the best thing we had because it would wake you up and many times that monitor if you have it turned down you can't hear it if you are in bed. Supervisor Desch asked Mr. Langendoerfer vdiat he thought the prospects weire of staffing the West Hill fire station, vdiether it be capacity for sixteen bunkers with volunteers? Mr. Langendoerfer replied that he thought that if creative means were used to staff it he felt it would work for either one of them. First of all, we used to staff seme of the bxank rocms at night with students and the students were trained into fire fighting and these were people vdio would respond in return for that they had a room and a roof over their head, etc., and it helps cut down on the cost of their college education. For seme reason or other he thought it had gotten away from this again over the years. As far as getting volunteers in there he did not think there would be any problem but you can't put an add in the paper and say you want volunteers you have to go out and ask them and v^en you get them in there you have to make them feel a part of the system, not just going out and fitting the fire and cleaning up the mess afterwards, etc., and he always felt it was the old ccraraimity stations that made the fire companies thrive because ^en he joined his fire station was down vdiere the parking rairp is now. We had our own building, our own truck and our own driver there. We would have about 100 to 150 Town Board Minutes 4 November 29, 1988 heading back and unless they go down and sign the book in the station vdiich scrae of them don't take the time to do then they assume well we only had one person there, if there is only one name in the book. We had a couple of working fires the other night and he stated that he would be interested in the response and that he had always been curious whether the response figures were put in with the EMT figures vdiich the paid fire fighters go to only. If they are added in that will make it look a lot worse because the volunteers do not go to BMCT calls, this he could not say for sure but he knew at one time it was done that way. Councilman McPeak remarked, the paid guy drives the truck so that's the one they are referring to. Councilwcman Raffensperger stated that she understood that but vtot the Board got a discussion of how really unsafe it is not to have two paid fire fighters to every call and she just wanted to understand this better. Mr. Langendoerfer replied, they really should have more than two because in the station you have your Assistant Chiefs, if the Chief isn't around, you have your lieutenants vAiich also should be responding along with it and of course your driver and at any given call there is at least two or three trucks so if it was something that they needed to man one truck at one time those drivers and lieutenants could help hook that up until the volunteers got there but response time is always a pr<±>lem. The other thing that he felt was wrong was v^en they took the alarm system off at night. Now this alarm system would create a lot of volunteer response, young and old. The alarm would cone in they would hear it, if it was one or two o'clock in the morning, they would hear it, get out of bed and rush to the alarm. He stated that he did not feel that it made that much noise for the otiergency that it created. He stated that he could remember way back in time vdien the alarm system went off at night, and in fact he thought it was on South Hill, the neighbor heard it, it woke him up, and he went over and got the people out of the house next door that was having the fire. He stated that he always felt that the alarm system was essential and it is essential to response. Councilman McPeak added, he thought the alarm system was the best thing we had because it would wake you up and many times that monitor if you have it turned down you can't hear it if you are in bed. Supervisor Desch asked Mr. Langendoerfer \tot he thought the prospects were of staffing the West Hill fire station, v^ether it be Cc^city for sixteen bunkers with volunteers? Mr. Langendoerfer replied that he thought that if creative means were used to staff it he felt it would work for either one of them. First of all, we used to staff seme of the bunk rooms at night with students and the students were trained into fire fighting and these were people v^o would respond in return for that they had a room and a roof over their head, etc., and it helps cut down on the cost of their college education. For some reason or other he thought it had gotten away from this again over the years. As far as getting volimteers in there he did not think there would be any problem but you can't put an add in the paper and say you want volunteers you have to go out and ask them and v^en you get thorn in there you have to make them feel a part of the system, not just going out and fighting the fire and cleaning up the mess afterwards, etc., and he always felt it was the old community stations that made the fire conpanies thrive because \^en he joined his fire station was down \^ere the parking raitp is now. We had our own building, our own truck and our own driver there. Wfe would have about 100 to 150 Tcwn Board Minutes 5 November 29, 1988 people, to a company meeting. Seme of the guys came in an himg around during the day, they had nothing to do, maybe shot a little pool, play seme cards, an alarm came in and they were right there to go out on the trucks. There was no problem with response but once we moved down to Central you are putting four cenpanies into one building with a meeting room no larger than this room right here and if you want to put a pool table in there is cuts down on the size, it took the cemmunity spirit out of it. It took the spirit out of it for the volunteers v^o would go out and raise money for the things that the City is now paying for and the Town is paying for. They were more or less self sustained and we have let that get away and he felt that if we could get that back and instead of asking the husband to join ask the husband and wife to join. If a person is afraid of climbing a ladder and go into a working fire there is plenty of ground work afterwards so you really don't just have to have a person there that will go into a fire. He believed it could be staffed. Supervisor Desch asked if he had any idea how many of the volunteer Captains would agree with v^at he just shared with the Board? Mr. Langendoerfer replied that he had no idea, right now. But he wanted to emphasize that he was representing himself and his own thoughts. He stated that he had had a couple of calls before he called up and requested this appearance frcm other members asking him vtot he thought about it and would he get involved in it? He felt he was at least responsible for at least the start of the two stations ip there and he had promised the Town at one time that he would work diligently if they got the stations up there to get volunteers for them, vdiich he would do. Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked, in the paper the West Shore Drive fire, she asked if that was in the Town of Ithaca? The paper said that the fire could have been fought more effectively if they had had more personnel. She asked vAiy mutual aid was not called if this indeed was the case? Councilman Bartholf replied that the fire was in the Town of Ithaca and that there were at least 30 people there, thirty fire fighters, v^en he was there. Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked, so this ccannent, Councilman Bartholf stated that he did not know vhen it first started but he did have his xmit on and they did ask for more volunteers and he felt they did get more volunteers. Supervisor Desch stated that he did talk with the Chief yesterday and the Chief did not have any specific numbers. Councilwoman Raffensperger replied one has to be concerned, either there were enought people there in a timely fashion to fight it or there weren't and she felt they needed to know if they were not mutual aid was not ertployed or \totever needed to be done and if indeed there were enough people this kind of publicity in the paper is not a favor to anybody. Sipervisor Desch agreed. Mr. Langendoerfer remarked that he would just like to make one caiment to that. On that particular fire if the proper alarm system had been in you would have had even more people there. If they don't know there is a fire, they can't respond. Town Board Minutes 6 November 29, 1988 Supervisor Desch stated that before the Board got into the Route 96, Nelson Roth is here to tell us about the decision of the Appellate Division, the reason he has cotie is to not only tell us vdiat it says but also to correct seme of the publicity that has been in the newspaper about it. Attorney Nelson Roth stated that he assumed the Board had had the qpport\mity to look at the decision. This relates obviously to the Randy Brown, Louise Brown greenhouse up on Route 96 in the Town. The Brown's applied seme year to a year and a half ago for a authorization to construct a greenhouse after a bam burned down. It was in a residential area but the bam that bumed down was a valid non-conforming use. The ajplication was submitted, was considered by the Zoning Board of i?^peals and ultimately the Zoning Board after holding two hearings granted the application as an extension of a non-conforming use. And several neighbors, as you know, challenged that decision in Supreme Co\art an Article 78 Proceeding was brought and ultimately Justice Bryant decided that the Board had abused its discretion and further held there was a denial of due process. And the Brown's appealed and the Town appealed. He stated that he would like to cover a few of the points. There was a recent airticle in the newspaper v^ch did not bear much resemblance to the actual decision and he felt it might be useful to clarify vdiat the i^pellate Court in Albany actually held. Justice Bryant held that the Board must consider the application under the standards applicable for a use variance, that is that the Board was required to find a practical difficulty or unnecessary hardship ^^ch he stated you know is fairly rigorous legal standard. And he held that that had not been demonstrated. The Town argued that the Board could, that is had the right and did in fact consider the application pursuant to a different standard that is the standard set forth in Section 77 (7) of the Zoning Ordinance of the Town rather than 77 (6) viiich relates to use variances. Justice Bryant had rejected that argument. The Third Department adopted the Towns analyses in it's entirety in fact the language seems to quote in much detail, the brief that the Town submitted sighting the Appellate Coiu±s recent decision in the case of Hull vs the Town of Ithaca on vdiich the Town also prevailed. Reading from the opinion, "there is nothing irrational in the Zoning Board's application of these clearly worded provisions of the ordinance. Accordingly we conclude that Supreme Court errored in holding that the Brown's needed a use variance vdiich required the showing of a hardship. Justice Bryant held that the Zoning Board's determination was tainted by a lack of due process because the Board refused to allow additional public ccrament at a subsequent proceeding on the same matter. What had happened was that there were requests frcm the Board for further information frcm the State Department of Transportation as to the impact on traffic if the Brown's were permitted to build this greenhouse. The public hearing was closed the Brown's and Town officials met with the State Department of Transportation, they made seme recommendations v^ch were accepted by the Browns, they agreed to do it, and these reccninendations were considered at a siabsequent hearing. At that subsequent hearing the Board took the position that the pxablic hearing had been closed, heard further frcm -^e Browns and heard further frcm the Department of Transportation recommendations. There was an argument that the hearing should have been open. Hie Third Department held specifically "we also disagree with Supreme Courts holding that the Zoning Boards decision was tainted by a lack of due process". They reject that argument in its entirety. The Court did hold that the second hearing should have been open for public conoment but not because there was any due process violation but rather because the form notice that was published concerning the second hearing said that all persons would be heard concerning this matter and a Vcuriety of other matters that were on the agenda. He felt that viiat happened Town Board Minutes 7 November 29, 1988 was that a form notice was sinply published and since this was on the agenda the Brown matter was listed under those public hearings. The impact of the decision is quite simple and that is that the Board, as any municipal Board has an inherent authority to regulate its own proceedings and decide v^en public hearing will be held and how long they will last and v^o will be heard and at vtot length and if the Board decides to close the hearing it can do that but it then cannot publish a notice saying that further ccrament will be taken. And that's a technical defect it really has no substantial impact on vdiat happened and it certainly is a far cry from a finding of a violation of due process. Mr. Roth went on to say that Justice Bryant also foimd that the Boards findings were inadequate to support the decision that was actually made by the Board, that is that the authorization should be given. The Town argued that even if that were true, that the findings were inadequate, that the Board should be given the opportunity to make adequate findings. That the matter should simply be remanded to the Board for further discussion and determination. Justice Bryant said, no you can't do that, that he was finding that the findings were inadequate and there will be no further reconsideration. The Appellate Division, the Third Department specifically held that the appropriate judicial remedy in these circumstances "is to annul the determination and remit the matter to the Zoning Board for appropriate action to cure the defects in the administrative process". In other words this is a problem that could have and should have been easily remedied by the Board itself, it should have been given that opportunity and the Appellate Division sent it back to the Board to cure the defects in the administrative process, as the Court said. So if the Browns decide to resubmit their application the Board now has direct approval frcm the T^pellate Division to reconsider it and render new findings presumably in accord with applicable legal standards. The Town took the position, in this appeal as you know, that we weren't concerned per say with the outcome on the specific request, that is v^ether the Brown's prevailed or didn't prevail or v^ether the neighbors prevailed or didn't prevail, rather we were concerned specifically with the interpretation of our own Zoning Ordinance and the position the Zoning Board had taken on it. That was the most significant issue that was presented in the case and on that the ^^jpellate Division squarely agreed with the Town's position. Supervisor Desch remarked, so the next move is on the part of the Browns to reapply, if they were to so choose? Attorney Roth replied that he may have slightly over stated that. The Court specifically directed that the matter be remitted to ^e Zoning Board of J^peals for proceedings not inconsistent with its decision. He felt it was on the Browns to come and say they w^t that reconsideration at which point the Board is required to give it to them. Councilwcraan Raffensperger asked, are you saying that if Board of Zoning Appeals or any other Board of the Town had held the initial public hearing, closed it and even though at the subsequent hearing vdiich was advertised as a public hearing, that if new information was introduced for example from DOT, from the Browns, from anybody, frcm the staff, did the Court then say there was no need to reopen the public ccsrment portion of the hearing? Absent that little thing at the top of the meeting notices that say everybody that ccroes can talk? Attorney Roth replied, unfortunately the Court doesn't give us a vbole lot of guidance. What they say specifically on the point is that the mere fact that the petitioners wished to be heard further on the matter, that is the neighbors, does not if so facto Town Board Minutes 8 November 29, 1988 establish a violation of their rights. Then the Court goes on and says nonetheless we conclude that in this specific instance they should have been given that opportunity because the published notice of that hearing stated that it was a public hearing on several matters including the Browns application at vdiich the Zoning Board would "hear all person in support of such matters or objections thereto". And then the Court went on to say that having notified the pi±>lic that would hear all person in support of the Brown application and all objections thereto, it should have heard them. If the notice hadn't included that he felt v^t the Court was saying was that the hearing was properly closed and that the Board does have that right to regulate its proceedings. Councilwcman Raffensperger replied, this is a matter on v^ich we have had controversy. She stated that she felt the Town and its Boards need guidance as to the circumstances in vMch public hearings must be reopened vdien substantial new information is introduced. This is just an opportunity for us to get a better idea of vtet we ought to be doing. Attorney Roth replied that they would be happy to subnit a manorandum on that if the Board would like them to do it. Councilwcman Raffensperger replied that she thought it would be helpful. Supervisor Desch felt the Town Board had errored on the side of being conservative in doing that, for exairple with the Kyong matter and others. Councilwcman Raffenspearger replied that for once she wasn't pointing the finger at the Town Board. DISCUSSIOJ OF ROUTE 96 DEIS Town Planner Susan Beeners remarked that they had received a letter frcm DOT and also frcm the Southern Tier East Regional Planning Board requesting that caranents on the DEIS be submitted, she believed, by the 20th. She then handed out seme draft ccawtients. She went on to say that the Assistant Planner would be very happy to walk the Board through them, each section. (Copy attached to minutes). Supervisor Desch asked if there was any need to walk through the alternatives quickly or was the Board comfortable with them. He did not know hew many people had time to get into the DEIS in detail. Councilwcman Raffensperger replied, just for clarification, the last thing she remembered the Board doing was that a couple of years ago the Board passed a resolution at the request of the Paleontological Lab. Just tell me which alternative that encompassed? She knew it was the one that took out the lab. Assistant Planner Frantz remarked, just for clarification also on these ccmments, is that they are directed to the draft environmental irtpact statement directly and only the project indirectly. This here (pointing to the map) is the option Number 3 vdiich is the one the Board voted a few years ago to reccmmend. The one v^ch goes through the main PRI building. Supervisor Desch remsurked, we basically added that as an option we would be comfortable with to the other two at that end of the project. Comments on RTE. 96 DEIS (Draft) To be sent to: N.Y.S. D.O.T. S.T.E.R.P.D.B. Tompkins County Dept. of Planning City of Ithaca The following are comments by Planning Staff on the Route 96 D/EIS which have been reviewed with the Town Board on November 29, 1988. 1. Alternatives B and. C will require the acquisition of approximately 44 acres and 53 acres of land within the Town of Ithaca, respectively. In addition the two proposed alignments will isolate approximately 90 acres of land from direct access to the existing Route 96. Approximately 40 acres of the land acquired for right of way or cut off from the existing Route 96 have potential for extensive development for residential purposes because of slope and soil conditions on the West Hill escarpment. Under existing Town of Ithaca zoning and subdivision regulations approximately 60 dwelling units could be developed on that 40 acres. The potential impact of the loss of this residential land in close proximity to the City of Ithaca may be partly mitigated through available Town land use regulations such as clustered development, or through transfer of development. 2. Although Alternatives B and C will restrict growth along their proposed alignment due to the limited access nature of the new Route 96, the reduction of traffic on the existing Route 96 is expected to make that corridor more attractive to residential development. Alternatives B and C may thus encourage growth within the Town in the vicinity of Tompkins Community Hospital and along the existing Route 96 corridor between the City/Town line and the hospital. It is likely that with Alternatives B and C a focus for higher intensity development would be provided at the interchange of the new alignments with Trumansburg Road. Under Alternative A, it is likely that higher intensity uses might occur in a sprawl development pattern along the Trumansburg Road corridor. 3. Under Alternatives B and C three alignment options are given for the northern terminus of the new Route 96. In addition to the impacts listed. Option No. 2 and Option No. 3 eliminate approximately 3 acres of land in the southwest corner of the Tompkins Community Hospital campus from possible future use.(Exhibit A, Parcel A) Access options to the large tract- of land on the west side of the existing Route 96 between the NYSEG substation and the cemetery (Exhibit A, Parcel B) should be evaluated under the three alignment options. Under the existing zoning (R-15 Residence) and the historic mix of single- and two family homes within the Town (+/-12% of homes being two-family) approximately 120 homes could be built on this tract. Most of these homes could be expected to utilize an access point onto Route 96 somewhere between the substation and the cemetery. Option No. 3 may preclude access to the parcel from the existing Route 96 south of its proposed new intersection with Alternative B or C. 4. The traffic projections for the year 2010 for Elm Street, Hector Street, and Cliff Street at the Octopus appear to be low. For example, at this time there are five developments in the West Hill area of the Town representing approximately 380 dwelling units proposed or under review by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board. Beyond this there would. Jbe approximately 500 acres of land zpned R*15 on West Hill. 5. Town records show that the ownership of several parcels of land along the Alternative B and C alignments has changed, and those parcels may no longer be tax exempt (Tax Parcels No. 6-24-3-3.1, -3.2, -3.3, -3.4, -3.5). 6. The intersection of Hayts Road and Route 96 should be realigned as part of the overall project to create a safer intersection at that point. 7. It would appear that the 24" siphon near the Octopus (Utilities Section) would have to be relocated in Alternative A. .»lwOl^tON N6. 1 AUTbMHENTI •* A''^^^^<''''^/\ ' ^ ALt^Ml^NTOPTION 110. 3/»t6NMlr^I 1 1o loo Town Board Minutes 9 November 29, 1988 Assistant Planner Frantz replied, yes. He stated that he spent the past week or so trying to put together a history of the Route 96 of all of the decisions made in the course of the years. And of course the PRI has played a very significant role in the proceedings. Originally in 1977, there was an alignment that appeared to be suitable to PRI and that is very close to Option Number I (here). In fact he traced that original alignment, the PRI did say was suitable to them, on a map showing Option Number I and in essence it cones down to approximately this point (indicating on the map) and then that alternative alignment came down further along the slope. Hov^ver, this one does have, the PRI mention that 90', a 90' setback fron the road to their auxiliary building would be okay and the 200* setback from the main building to the road was also okay as far as they were concerned. This does appear to meet that criteria that they had set in 1977. Supervisor Desch remarked, the hospital also signed onto that new alternative. He felt it was understandable that they would because it pushes it quite a bit further away from their building and eliminates the problem of conflict with parking. Mr. Frantz continued, vdiat we did was we reviev^ the environmental impact statement and came up with a few things that we thought the State should include in the final environmental impact statanent. The first item is the impact of the highway in regard to taking land that has potential for residential development out of residential development potential. We figured that there is a potential for perhaps at seme point in the future without a highway perhaps maybe 60 or so dwelling units being constructed really in this area (indicating on the map) from here i^pwards. The criteria we used for deteimining that (this was not so much developable land) was the fact was we limited the slope to 15% or less and from here on down it's more than 15% and also there is a band of soil that runs for quite a distance along here \^ch has been in the soil survey of the County, described as being unsuitable for accommodations. So we sort of eliminated this from possible development purposes and limited it to 40 acres in this area. We think though that the cluster divisions in the Town's Subdivision Ordinance will go a ways toward mitigating that lost land. Mr. Frantz went on to say, on Alternative "B" and "C" this is under number 2, we looked at the impact of the Alternative "A" on development along Route 96 as well as the fact that although in the draft environmental impact statement they stated that the Alternatives "B" and "C" will not induce development. What they are saying is that it will not induce development along the corridor of the highway simply because it is a limited assess corridor. However, we think they should mention the fact that it will probably induce more residential development on the old Trumansburg Road between the hospital and the City line. It will basically reduce traffic on the road and make it much more attractive an area. Point 3 was, we looked at the iitpact of the three options for the northern terminus on potential land use in the area of the hospital. The alternative nximber 2 and nurtiber 3 tend to remove this general area of land approximately three acres frcm any potential for being developed and we feel that is something that should be pointed out because vMle they push over here they don't really provide much usable land to the hospital between the new routes and the hospital grounds itself. Also, we felt they should look at the impact of Option III especially on any sort of development on p>arcel ip here vdiich is currently owned by Mrs. Kyong. But under Option III it's questionable \^ther there can be any access to this parcel of land frcm the Tirumansburg Road and this is through discussions with the State Engineer's. If under Town Board Minutes 10 November 29, 1988 Option III it appears that seme sort of intersection would have to be developed up here, we think they should look at that and assess the irtpact of that. Again, there is potential under the existing zoning for approximately 120 hcmes on this tract of land which we would anticipate would feed onto seme sort of road down to 96. They can't go South onto Cornell land or we don't want than to go North up Hayts Road either. It appears that the best access to this parcel of land is in this area here. Councilwcman Raffensperger asked, v^y don't we want than to go to Hayts Road? Assistant Planner Frantz replied, the distance between the Western edge of the Cemetery and Route 96, it's a very roimd about way to get out, especially this area. Councilwcman Raffensperger remarked, we did have a secondary access on there didn't we? Supervisor Desch replied, right. Mr. Frantz asked, vdiich? Councilwcman Raffensperger replied, for the Kyong proposal, up on Hayts Road. Mr. Frantz replied right. As they developed the upper portion of the parcel and he felt tliat would happen anyway. But we think that the primary access should be seme place along here since the focus of most of the traffic from the development would probably be down towards the City. Mr. Frantz went on to say they think that the traffic projections are scmething that the State should look at more closely. The traffic projection is really for the Octopus and they do appear to be low for the year 2010. And then the last three ones are minor points. The fact that Cornell has basically sold the Odd Fellows ccnplex and seme of those parcels are on the tax rolls. The intersection of Hayts Road and Route 96 should be looked at and possibly be realigned as part of the overall project. Then there is a, this is very technical, but there is a sanitary sewer vdiich the State has stated would have to be moved for Options "B" and "C". It appears that it is also in conflict with Option "A". Supervisor Desch asked Mr. Frantz to describe v^ere the 90 acres is again. The 90 under Item 1? Mr. Frantz replied, basically this is the City line here (indicating on the map) so it's from the upper portion of the right-of-way to the hospital lands and then down, we are assuming, to 89 or the railroad tracks. Si:5)ervisor Desch replied, so you went all the way. He stated that he did not know if they had taken the part: that was lower than 15% slope in that ccnprise of 90 acres. Mr. Frantz replied yes, the 90 acres includes all of that. Supervisor Desch replied, but goes beyond. Mr. Frantz remarked the 90 acres is the lower, 90 acres frcm the right-of-way down and then 44 or 53 acres is the right-of-way itself. Supervisor Desch remarked, in order to get 90 acres you are taking then the v^ole area between the new highway and Route 89? Town Board Minutes 11 November 29, 1988 Mr. Frantz replied, yes. Supervisor Desch remarked, a lot of that at the lower end of that really wouldn't have access to 96 anyway because of the slopes. Mr. Frantz replied, right and we are sort of eliminating that from potential for residential development. Councilwcman Raffensperger questioning number 4, it's a question about present, past or \^tever, you say beyond this there would be approximately 500 acres of land zoned R-15 on West Hill. Do you mean there is, theire is potentially, there could be? Mr. Frantz replied, right now there is approximately 500 acres beyond that taken up by these five projects. Councilwcman Raffensperger replied that she guessed vdiere he had "would be", for her it would be a lot clearer, if you say "there is". Because we have R-30 out there and she wondered if he had put that into the R-15 lunp. Mr. Frantz replied, no we didn't. Most of the R-30 land, although it should be included and we will do that. It's approximately 1,300 to 1,400 acres, however, a lot of that is also in the vicinity of Coy Glen. But v^at we can do is subtract. Councilwcman Raffensperger replied that she really wasn't asking him to put in the R-30 land she wanted to be sure that there was land out there that is R-30 that has potential for rezoning to R-15 and she didn't think it was appropriate to put it in that figure. You say its not in there, so wonderful. Councilwcman Raffensperger then asked, vdien is this to be sent? Mr. Frantz replied, any \diere been now and the 20th. Supervisor Desch added, the 20th of Deconnber, that's the cut off period. The hearings are on the 13th and 14th, of December right? Mr. Frantz replied, the 14th and 15th. Councilwcman Raffensperger replied, so we coiold have maybe just a coiaple of days to look this over if we have any further ccmments. Its hard to do it all right here. Supervisor Desch suggested that if anyone had anything more just get it directly to the Assistant Planner. The Assistant Planner replied yes we can take more ccmments and include other observations of the monbers of Board. S\:pervisor Desch asked if anyone else had anything more on Route 96? No one present had any further comments. STAFF MEETINGS Sipervisor Desch remarked that he had distributed a memorandum scheduling Staff Meetings for next year and when he sat down with David Klein the thought came up it might be worthwhile to attenpt to schedule, we have done that before and it is always difficult to get everybody available at any given time, so vtot you see on this schedule is basically the second and last Thursdays of each month at noon. He stated that vtere he shows Town Board members that's strictly theoretical, for exaitple David Klein thought he might be able to make the first one but it turns out he has a conflict so Tcfwn Board Minutes 12 November 29, 1988 that any other Board member that would like to ccsoe on the first, feel ccanfortable in doing so. And v^ere these other names are, if you find that you can't come on those days just let somebody else know well in advance in case somebody else wants to come. It is no problem if a couple of Board members want to come that's not problem, the only probloti is if we end up getting a quorum then you get into the problem of v^ether it's an open meeting or not and these are not open meetings, they are working sessions with staff. That's for your information. Councilwoman Leary asked, viien is the Association of Towns Meeting? Supervisor Desch replied, February 16th? The Town Clerk replied, February 19, 20, 21 and 22. ADJOURNMEINT The meeting was duly adjourned.