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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-07-28 - TB Q 3 I far TOWN OF ULYSSES SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING / VILLAGE HALL July 28 , 1994 Present : Supervisor Doug Austic ; Oouncilpeople Tom Reitz , Catherine Stover ; Village Mayor Tom Bennett ; Trustees J ackie Merwin , Don Fairchild ; Marsha Georgia , Town Clerk . Others Present : Karl Heck / TC Planning ; Fran & Tim Maguire ; James S eafuse , Ingrid & David Potenza ; Peter Penniman / Master plan . - Mr . Austic called the meeting to order at 7 : 35pm and stated that a petition has been received from landowners requesting that a water district be formed from the Fairgrounds to Rabbit Run Rd / Taughannock Park Rd . . . Mr . Austic decided to call this joint meeting with the Village to see if this is - worth pursuing . What we are talking about is e stablishing a water district on both sides of - RT • 96 to cover the commercial districts that are already zoned in the Town as commercial . The Master Plan Committee has agreed to - designate the field behind Maguire E' ord and Jim Seaiuse ' s as mixed use for light industrial or commercial use . -The question is "what are the advantages to the Village to extend water ? " Our . proposal is to - establish light industrial - - job producing - not environmental destructive work in area - shop in area in the Village and that would stimu •late ' downtown . Another advantage - - - if no cost to the Viilage : to : establish - then they w ould sell the water for what eve n rate you would establish and this would raise - money to : help . pay for other needed . improvements , e xpansions , or whatever they have planned - for the ' future . - Also in his opinion • and ` probably the Town Board ! - - we understand the ✓ illage - has a - probl em - on ' the - end 1 of : Towns with - pressure - at the - trailer park T I would assume • that - it wouldfbe reasonable for the Town to add - some : money t o help alleviate that problem one - way o r another . • if this - eras - approved or ' at - l east we have - the gb ahead from the Village to have - the - water ; than when we ; apply for as many grants that wei can = come up with to • help - alleviate - the cost to the land ! owner and to addJ money - to - the pumping system w hich you need to increase pressure to . . the Village . - Those are the two or three advantages I can see to the Village - - plus the jabs for . people : living in the Village would : be . gaining . = Even - the commercial business that are there . Mr . Austic ? asked stow - many people are now employed ? Mr . Seafuse stated he increased jobs - irom 19 to 52f when he moved to his present location . •. l - . - • - - - - - _ . - . - . - - - ; - - • The next step , if we have approval for water would ' be • to : do the e ngineering study - - first we would come up with a potential maximum use for the water in this area . . ' What ° build out : ' hen the Town= would tell ' the - Village how much water they would - need . • _ I We would have engineering studies lined up or the cost of it , but w e don .t -t want to ' get = into - eipensive engineering studies if . there is no chance of the Village extending water . Mr . Austic opened it up : for discussion . • - . 1 . • : 1 • Mr . Fairchild asked what exists - now as far as how many businesses , haw many , residents -. . M • - . - a - Mr . Austic stated we have . - - - Shursave , Maguire Chevy = and Ford , L ittle - Venice , e the • Veterinarian ' s , and one - house .. The - residents are zoned - ask commercia •, also Halsey House , - • . • 1 Special Board Meeting Town and Village July 28 , 1994 Mr . Seafuse stated that the Village is already supplying the ✓ eterinarian and the house next to the fairgrounds with village w ater . The next question is where would the line go . The water line is on the fairgrounds side but along Smith Woods there is a 9 " gas line . Mr . Rustic stated that the way Town Law sets this up is that the cost of this is assessable to residents of the district . Grants could help reduce this . Maguire ' s stated that they employ 18 to 20 people . They have e well but the problem- is they are always running out of water . Some times they have to close down . Mr . Austin asked if they had considered alternatives ? Mr . Seaters commented that problems are that State regulations are changing . The State now says that the water coming out of the faucets has to be okay for all uses . Right now they use all bottled water except for toilets and clean - up . He is on a time schedule right now with Tompkins county Health Dept . that he has to do something . He would prefer to go with a water district instead of the cost of another well . He is prepared to to to the Village on his own and ask for water under a hardship . They are n ot a big water user . Theoretically you have a water district down there - - we can sit here and say its an illegal line but its been there over 20 years. or better - - if it was really an illegal line - - if you didn ' t want it down there I guess someone could have turned it off and made it a not a legal line - - a non - e xisting line - - so you are already supplying water down there and you have been for many years - - you have already created a w ater district down there - - probably legal by this point and time . We are willing to do our part to make it happen for e veryone down there and certainly I would think if it is run properly you could make some money on it . Mrsd betenza replied that they are dealing with the some problems w ith the Halsey House . Mr . Maguire asked if the Village would want to supply Jacksonville or have Ithaca he it . Mr . Reitz stated that the Village in ' 86 stated they would supply water to Jacksonville . Mr . Rustic commented that the way he looks at it if there was a capacity problem then the Town would help the Village do whatever it would take - - another well , etc . Mr . Fairchild stated that at the moment there is not a .capacity problem . Ms . Merwin responded - - she came here to -hearcwhet Mr . Austic . had to say and listen , but some of the things that I am thinking - - there was a study done 86 - 87 about capacity , but the latest thing „ we have been going through is the pressure problem did not . mention the source and that ' s one thing we would have to look at . At that time they talked about enough capacity for 200 residents and that was eight years ago . That is one factor . Some other thoughts that have come to mind - - we can ' t put the cart before the horse - - before I would want to , as a Village representative say we should do it we would have to know some other things . Mr . Aastic replied - - obviously . . opt tv Special Board Meeting Town and Village July 28 , 1994 Mr . Reitz asked what she would like to know . Ms . Merwin - - it would be really important that it would work out - - I think it would be fairly complex to work things out now so that it would not impact financially on Village rate payers . The o ther issue I am thinking about is fairness - - we ' re talking about starting this South of the Village area - - fairness to o ther areas in Ulysses - - because what if you then - say all the people on - the . Korth -. side want - water too and every where else - - w here do you stop and haw do you decided that this is the place to start - - because the supply is not limitless . I ' m not looking for answers right now but throwing out thoughts . we are taking about another well - and would it make sense to do that to our ! system or have the Town do their own system . Mr . Bestir - - we would have to get some engineering on it , but it would seems as though if it would be mutually beneficial - - you could have more water - - tie could have water by using the same lines , just increase the size whatever - - it - would make more sense than running a whole new system to the lake . Ms . Bernie - - as = e last point let me state where my skepticism comes from - - some of the stuff we have been dealing with recently - - like the pressure at the North end , the problems with the lack o f chlorine time at the boy scout camp - - some of the problems at the trailer park - - what that is saying to me - - every time you do something like this you do not know , unless you study it real carefully what problems may come up down the road and that I would not want to rush into this . . Mr . Rustic - - I think in the past , by the Village just providing water without a water district , you have problems . With e district you have more control - - lines - how it is set up - if you just run a line to someone ' s house then you have no control over basically how the system is net up . As I explained before I think it be only fair that the Town help alleviate some of the problems that are causing low pressure and that sort of thing . More discussion followed along these lines . Mr . Rustic said engineering studies would have to be done . Mr . Fairchild asked what is the desire of the Town tonight . Mr . Rustic stated informational . - - Mr . Fairchild - The next Village board meeting is the 8th . Mr . Rustic - it would be nice to know that not only the Town but the business at the south end of the Village would Iike to know w hich - way - too . These things take time - costly . Mr . Reitz - engineering - studies would probably - define area . Mr . Rustic - first - step , get the engineering study - design map - showing = detail . where - this really is - - - get - figures on how much w ater , potential we can use and how the best nay , ty get there . We hate to get into expensive engineering studies if really there is NO CHANCE to buy water from - the • villege : That is what this meeting - is all about . - - Mr . Reitz - - thaw . is - the bottom line - in fact we had a document from our - Town - Attorney at the time ( 8 ) when we did the Alpha House Water - District that said next thing - after a petition - is to ✓ eport and a nag - must be • draw by an engineer to show the source o f the supply - of - water , proposed district -, method of construction and water - supply systems and location of water - mains and . : I I w tit Special Board Meeting 4 Town and Village July 28 , 1994 hydrants . So it is advantageous to find a supply - if we can hear from the Village andLzt is not going to happen at all , then w e would have to look for other sources . Mr . Rachun - you • may $ want , to keep in mind the sources of grant monies we are looking at from Small - Cities and - ARC look very much favorably on inter - municipalities working together than if we w ere to go it along and - try this - a ; poke in the dark - ✓ einventing the wheel . Karl Heck came here - from the County P lanning and he can say a few words about getting grant monies . f ' - I - Mr . Heck - Small Cities Grant up to $ 400 , 000 . - promising for - e conomically development project - jobs - business without water o r need water will make a very good case . I talked with John Anderson of the health department and he would be more than w illing to state the hardship of the businesses water situation and things like that get you grants . Problems like this could lose jobs . Important to have application state the source of w ater and the commitment to provide . It would be a Town application . Other sources could be ARC . Now is not to early too start applying . Ms . Merwin - do you need the engineer report before you do the g rant ? Mr . Heck - yes Ms . Merwin - where will money come from to do this ? Mr . Austic - petitioners for the water or the Town would pay - that ' s the next step - we need a first step and that is - - will the Village provide water . This may not be the perfect may to do this , but it could save everyone money . Mr . Reitz - first step - SOURCE - will Village provide ? Ms . Merwin - - this would be subject to a public hearing . Mr . Austic - why get into all that if there is no hope . Ms . Merwin - to me I feel which comes first - l don ' t feel I an ✓ eady to say yes . Mr . Austic - I am not asking for a decision tonight . Mrs . Potenza - with the benefits mentioned earlier why would you be against ? Ms . Merwin - am I the only one here with concerns or questions . Mr . Fairchild -- with the money the Village is spending right now o n sewer , but I know that does not have anything to do with this . Mr . Austic - we are not asking the village to spend any money . Mr . Maguire - if we go through this grant process it may be possible to get some monies to help with your problem at the North end of the Village . h e . Mervin - would like to get back to what Mrs . Potenza stated . one is that what I ' ve seen is that some of the out of Village w ater that was granted in the past has been coming back to haunt us now because some of this low pressure is because of water going to the trailer park at a higher elevation . Some of the o ther water problems at the boy scout camp are also from things that were done without putting a lot of thought into them . So o ne of my concerns would be really making sure a lot of bases are covered and that we knew how much there is there . But before I 1St Special Board Meeting 5 Town and Village July 28 , 1994 w ould want to say yes I an interested in doing this I would want to know some of those things . The other thing that has hardly been mentioned - Mr . Austic was talking about light industrial and not having commercial and one of my things that I talk about is not draining the life out of the downtown Trumansburg . I know you might say we are not in business to do that - - how can we n egotiate so we know that is not going to happen . Mr . Austic - why does the life go out of downtown - he you have any than why - because there is no body here to shop in Trumansburg - if you have more people from jobs - you may have more people . Ms . Merwin - that would be great but how do we get things laid out so the kind of development that happens creates jobs and not competition for downtown . Mr . Austic - we are going for jobs . Mr . Penniman - if I was on the Village board that would be my biggest concern . What we are talking about is stimulating development outside the Village and there are a lot of things like traffic - - if you put stores in outside the Village then you could lose retail business but if you put industry outside the ✓ illage then tot stand to gain sales taxes and the demand for houses . It is an opportunity . Mr . Austin - once you have the services than you can go out and actively pursue getting the type of industry you want . Mr . 8eafuse - it ' s nice that you are concerned about downtown Trumansburg , but I would say your concern about downtown Trumansburg - - you may be the only one , as far as the merchants - t he merchants are not concerned about downtown and what they are doing down there . I was a downtown merchant for a long , long time . They are so unconcerned down there that you can not area get than to put sidewalks in - - if they were real concerned about business and loosing business they would keep the shops up - they would put sidewalks in - you can ' t even get the downtown merchants to shovel their sidewalks in the winter - now how concerned are you about doing business and taking care of your customers if you leave the sidewalks unshoteled dawn there for d ata and days at a time after a major snow storm . Get the merchants together and see how concerned they are , because I think that they are not concerned I think they are pretty happy . d ot many that are not unhappy . Ms . Kerwin feels that she and Mr . Seafuse are talking about apples and oranges . Mr . Seafuse a I don ' t believe so - I was a downtown merchant for II o ver 9 years - I think I can speak for what happens down there - I think we are comparing the same things a if you are really concerned about them , get them together as a group - call a meeting and can how many show up and see how many merchants are dissatisfied with what ' s happening down on Main St . I Ms . Merwin - seeing whether or not they are dissatisfied with w hat happens doesn ' t necessarily have that much to do with what might happen if you for instance set up like your awn mini mall I� d owntown . Whether or not they are happy now with what ' s happening - that still might have a really negative effect on the center of the Village . Mr . feafuse - when I moved out of downtown to the edge of the ✓ illage with my grocery stare - the PSC store had never done anything in their entire life in the Village of Trumansburg . They had never paved the lot , updated the store , they had never I III Ve 4 % 10• Special Board Meeting 6 Town and Village July 28 , 1994 done anything except to take the Village of Trumansburg ' s money and send it some place else in New York state to build new stores . Now what happened was we built a store . on the outside of the Village and took a lot of the P & C ' s business - - what happened - - P & C did a 3 / 4 million renovation job , paved the parking lot , changed the store over _ completely - - so I guess maybe if everyone w as so unsatisfied , A ) do it before it happened to them or , B ) do it after the fact . Mr . Austic . - it is not our intention to discourage people . Mr . Seafuse - I don ' t want to get into an argument - BUT I have h eard this even when I was in the Village - I have come to meetings with the Village Board for years - ideas have come up before to improve different areas of downtown Village and other merchants were not interested - ie . new sidewalks . In the 12 years I have been here the downtown merchants have done nothing - - it always comes to this - if the downtown merchants are doing a g ood job and taking care of their people , they are going to have customers . Mr . Maguire - there are a lot of stores in downtown Trumansburg that open and are gone in 6 months - what we are talking about o bviously without complications down there is to stimulate commercial growth , light industry and something like that - - but u ltimately the Village would not be harmed with more people in the area . In the summer you have the tourist people but in the w inter no people . Either , one - it is the wrong business or , n umber two - there is not enough people to support it . I don ' t w ant anything bad for Trumansburg - I live here - I think what we are talking about here is a plus and not a negative thing - we d on ' t want an Ovid or a Willard - I ' m saying this personally but I am being as objective as I can and objective as anyone would look at it - it ' s got to help - employ more people - help with the tax base - it will help merchants with more people in the area . Ms . Merwin - I agree that it could be beneficial , but how do we n egotiate on that . Mr . Austic - the master plan is working and keeping this in mind as to what the Village would like to see and what the Town would like to see . If you do not have services no one will build or develope with out water . Ms . Merwin - then what do you do about sewer ? Mr . Austic - the type of things that we are seeking ; a sewer system is not a real problem . Mr . Bennett - stated he would get together with Mr . Austic and put something together - put resolution together before the ✓ illage Board meeting . Mr . Austic agreed to get together he also stated that the Town d oes not expect to get something for nothing . Mr . Rachun - you might want available where the lines run now so w hen a feasibility study is done by the engineers they would have that information . Further discussion took place on grants and if we could tie in both ends of the Village in one grant , because of problems with the water system . Ms . Merwin asked what do you estimate for engineering studies . Mr . Austic - we need to contact one - probably Hunt - they are Special Board Meeting 7 Town and Village July 28 , 1994 familiar , Mr . Reitz asked if a general letter of intent - a resolution of intent - would be enough for the application for the grant from the Village or do we need a firm letter of intent from the Village . Mr . Rachun - what I think I am hearing here is the concern of the Village to make a commitment without having engineering studies . Mr . Reitz - no one wants to commit the money for the study without having some indication from the Village saying yes the water is available if the engineering report is feasible . Everyone agreed that you do need an engineering report for the grant . Mr . Austic feels that a lot has been put out on the table and he will get together with Mayor Bennett . Mr . Reitz - the time frame is coming up on no fast - can the Village consider reviewing thin and having a resolution on August 8th . Hearing no further business the meeting was adjourned . Respectfully submitted , marshy L . Georgia Ulysses Town Clerk