HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-03-14 - PB IF
TOWN OF ULYSSES
P LANNING BOARD BUSINESS FORUM
MARCH 14 , 1994
TOWN HALL
P RESENT : CHAIRMAN DAVID TYLER ; MEMBERS : BUDD STOVER , DAN SMITH ,
GREG HOFFMIRE , GERRII' KEIL , KRYS CAIN, ; SECRETARY : ROXANNE
SMITH
G UESTS : DAVID ALLEN , CATHERINE AND BEACH STOVER , DOUG AUSTIC , TOM
REITZ , KAREN AND LARRY THOMPSON , RUTH KAHN .
The Chairman called the Business Forum to order at 7 : 38 PM .
H e gave a preamble to the guests on what the Planning Board is
® hoping to achieve with the two scheduled forums . The Board is
seeking to find out how businesses fit into our community . The
Members are looking for input ; ideas on how this community can
e ncourage the businesses it has and perhaps foster some new busi -
n esses . The local Chamber ' s businesses were all contacted . There
will be another forum on Monday , March 21st to accomodate those
who could not make this meeting . David mentioned that on two sep -
arate occasions the Board listened to two speakers . The first was
Mike Stamm from Tompkins County Area Development ( TCAD ) ; the second
was Tom King from the Tompkins County Chamber of Commerce , specific -
ally the Convention and Visitors Bureau . Out of these two meetings
t he Members arrived at two conclusions :
1 . Trumansburg is well set for attracting tourism .
2 . The Chamber of Commerce ' s budget is supplied by the room
tax ( a sizeable amount ) . How much of that , that is
collected from local B & Bs and Inns , comes back to the
Town of Ulysses ?
With the introduction completed , David turned the meeting over to
t he guests .
Planning Board Member Budd Stover. ( seated in the audience ) ,
asked , what does the Planning Board see as the future of agriculture
in this Town ? David replied that historically agriculture has been
a shrinking part of our economy . He mentioned Glen Applebee ( previous 1
Master Plan Committee Member. ) . His findings here and in the Northeast
were that it would continue to shrink unless some vital incentives
were provided to encourage it . He cited Vermont . It undertook 1
q uite an initiative about 20 years ago to provide tax incentives for
agriculture , especially dairy farming . It helped to the extent that
t he farming industry there has held its own . They did put more tax
burden on their businesses though . Agriculture will continue to
d iminish if there is no help at the state level or the very least the
local level , said David . Gerri asked what the proportion of agricul -
tural land was , that was actually being utilized in the Town of Ulysses ;
and how many people owned it ( many small farms versus a few large farm i
o wners ) ? Exemptions have to be maintained , absolutely , replied Krys .
P eople coming into the community ( in new housing ) need to know that
t hat is not going to change . Dan mentioned the right to farm legisla -
t ion that has been enacted . The Planning Board should not write
any restrictions on Residential or Commercial that will infringe on
t hat policy . David stated , a year ago , the State came through and
• said that every time there is a conveyance of a piece of property
in the Ag district , there has to be a statement from the seller to the
buyer , that the buyer acknowledges that this property is in an Ag
d istrict with intended agricultural activity . Krys thought that in
a positive vein it might be possible to put pressure on the County to
assess property that is actively farmed differently than agricultural
land that is waiting for development .
Beach stated that one way to preserve farm land is to make it
profitable . The real estate taxes need to be reduced . Farmers in
N ew York State are paying twice what farmers pay in Pennsylvania for
Workman ' s Compensation . Small businesses are facing that too . Seneca.
County is considering a 6 % tax rate , which could draw a lot of Ulysses ' s
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TOWN OF ULYSSES 2
PLANNING BOARD BUSINESS FORUM
MARCH 14 , 1994
businesses that way . They are welcoming them with open arms . We
cannot tax ourselves into prosperity . Dan said there are only a -
bout 4 full time farmers in his age group . The question is not
will you ever be able to regain , but do you want to keep what you
h ave ?
David asked if the exemptions created in the 50 ' s were help -
ful ? Dan replied that the benefits are decreasing about 3 % a year .
In 5 to 8 years ( if the trend continues ) it will all be negligible .
O riginally the breaks were up to 50 % off the tax bill . Krys men -
t ioned a surprising factor - it is based on soil type - you get a
® better break if you farm poor soil ! Gerri said the formula worked
better when there were lots of small farms . Doug responded that
if he went into an ag district it would have doubled his assessment .
Your best farm land is going to grow your best houses , commented Budd .
K rys suggested that fire protection could be assessed differently
for agricultural land . The school taxes are the most burdensome
said Gerri , across the board . An area the Planning Board has little
control over , responded Krys . Ithaca school taxes are the lowest in
t he County . One third of the assessment in the Town of Ulysses is
in that district , said Catherine . Beach mentioned that we are losing
land to the State a little piece at a time , which reduces the tax
base .
A part - time farmer working another job can write off his losses .
A full time farmer who has 3 bad years in a row will go under , said
D an . Larry Thompson wondered if income based versus property tax
could be promoted ? Ruth Kahn responded that as a delegate to a
school board convention , she heard that topic addressed . It was stated
t hat it must be made a priority .
B each stated in order to help small businesses you need to be
less restrictive . A B2 has to comply to site plan review . A lot
o f our sales tax is going to Seneca County .
L arry Thompson said small businesses need municipal water . Mr .
S tamm ' s focus is in Ithaca . There isn ' t a benefit to our Township .
We could promote a better tax break than Ithaca ( lower rent here ) .
H e makes statements that deter businesses from coming here .
D avid interpreted some of Mike Stamm ' s comments to mean that
t he businesses that do not require close proximity to the northeast
corridor of our county ( airport area ) ; the businesses that are here
already ; are the businesses that will be the most successful . This
is why the Members decided on this forum . They hope to hear businesses
say , we ' re here ; we ' re thinking of expanding ; we ' re doing well ; we ' re
n ot doing well ; why or why not . Obviously the business here that
e xpands and does well , that ' s going to be our strongest basis for
improving our community . Beach queried who is it that says whether
a business is a good business or a poor. one ? The American way of
life - you have a right to be successful or a failure . We have no
✓ ight judging whether one business is going to be better than another .
® David responded that one of the biggest complaints is the tax burden .
A promotional point being made about the 82 coming in here will be
that businesses ( retail , grocery store ) would provide for increased
t ax revenues , resulting in some needed relief . The poor business
will be a detriment to your tax base . It will cost the Town money .
B each again asked , who would be the judge in deciding whether it ' s a
g ood or a poor business ? Those judgements are made regularly in
housing , stated Krys . We say we don ' t have mobile homes in the Town
o f Ulysses unless they ' re in a park and that every dwelling needs
t o be at least 750 square feet . That means that certain types of houses
aren ' t built here , period . She asked the audience if they had a clear
idea of why businesses aren ' t utilizing the commercial district ?
D avid Allen said he would like to speak to that . He gave a brief
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TOWN OF ULYSSES 3
P LANNING BOARD BUSINESS FORUM
MARCH 14 , 1994
h istory of his business experience . He has been a half owner of the
✓ illage Greenhouse , prior to that he was with White ' s Nursery ( 17
years ) and has owned a store up at the Pyramid Mall . There is an
aura starting with the Village that says " not in my backyard - no
g rowth " . It has creeped inticr the Town of Ulysses . A small business
will have start - up costs of at least $ 50 , 000 to $ 100 , 000 . That ' s a
scratch . To do business in Ulysses you can plan on spending as
much money on a lawyer too . For this Town to really want to do
business , you have got to change that perception ( attitude ) . When
h e works in Seneca County , the attitude there is , what can we do
t o help you ? That is known going in . They ' re " user friendly " .
They are not , here . Integration of businesses is good . When a
business has a down time , and they all do , it will be somewhat masked
by the other successful businesses . You avoid strips of empty
lots ( like what you see outside of Buffalo with the defunct defense
industry ) . The Planning Board has got to sell itself . The business
community has a bad taste as a result of past Planning Boards . The
word gets out fast . The developers know which Towns are more accept -
ing .
Larry Thompson spoke about available commercial space . ( He is
an owner of Ulysses Square . ) When he saw an article in the Journal
written by Mike Stamm regarding the needfor more space , he galled
h im to make him aware of Ulysses Square . He was told that that was
n ot how they operated . He does not feel that Mike Stamm is inter -
e sted in promoting space in the Town of Ulysses , only Ithaca .
David Tyler said that the point Larry made about water and
sewer was excellent . The Members have gone on record stating that
t hey support a water initiative . Larry responded that water is not
t hat far away . Krys asked the audience which was the more likely
o ption - water from the Village of Trumansburg , or water from Bolton
P oint ? Everyone agreed on Bolton Point . Bolton Point is offering
it . Dan stated to the audience that the Planning Board had a joint
meeting with the Village Planning Board . They told them that the
Master Plan is currently being worked on . If they continue to
stonewall on water and sewer the Board can just as easily change
t he Master Plan and put the thrust of Ulysses ' s commercial develop -
ment down in the Bolton Point area . Larry made the observation
t hat the Village ' s supply is somewhat limited . He could have had
at least two more tenants if he had more water .
David Allen asked what the Planning Boards ' feelings were a -
bout small businesses ? David Tyler responded that there has not
been a cohesive thrust of how they want things to go . As examples ,
h e cited the Shur - Save area and the inability to get a commitment
o n municipal water , and the Auble property , north of the Village ,
again potential for commercial , business development . The lack of
water and sewer is a big stumbling block .
There are smaller businesses that are not critically in need
o f water and sewer , said David Allen . Krys asked , in the already
established commercial zones , what are the reasons for the businesses
t o keep from utilizing them ? Water is the issue , along with terrain
t hat isn ' t appropriate . If you want to change anything from Residen -
t ial / Agricultural ( PUD ) you have to come before the Board , said Dan .
There are not set time frames , that a developer can give to their
financial institutions or their builder that states when a decision
will be made . This has stopped development from getting off the
ground , said Dan . This is an existing reputation that past Planning
Boards have had , said Karen . Gerri suggested that a letter be sent
t o realators making them aware of available commercial space .
If you ask for a conversion of an existing property that ' s
zoned Residential , to Commercial use , if it is granted outright ,
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TOWN OF ULYSSES 4
PLANNING BOARD BUSINESS FORUM
MARCH 14 , 1994
it does put some legal danger into the equation that a spot zoning
d ecision has been made , said Krys . I don ' t know if it is more
illegal than what the Commercial is , you have already got , said Beach .
Budd mentioned a comment made by a Planning Board Member at a
previous Master Plan meeting . He stated that he would like to see
h omes built in this Town that didn ' t have vinyl siding and board
and batten siding . Budd thinks that making a statement like that
is dangerous . Ruth agreed .
L arry observed that those living in the Village ( who don ' t
®
own a lot of land ) are willing to dictate to the small business
owner / farmer what they should be doing with their property - yet
t hey aren ' t the ones paying a lot of the taxes . ( He was referring
to water and sewer. . ) One of the ways to create revenue would be
to work together ( Village and Town ) to create a water district
said Dan ( in the Village ) . Dave Allen mentioned that Hector did
it ( water only ) . Krys shared with everyone that TCAD ' s water
survey should be ready soon ( by April ) . Doug said that the
Village has the capacity to service 150 - 200 new homes . Krys would
like to see the break down of what it will cost the Village for
t he upgrade .
If there were more light industry in the ISA Babcock area ,
K rys didn ' t see that harming the Village . However , if the water
were brought up that fa .r. ( from Bolton ) it would probably make it
h arder for Ulysses Square to get tenants , said Dan .
D avid Tyler said that two big problems were hit upon :
1 . How do we have water and sewer service available as
n eeded ?
2 . In the agricultural area , what is the future in terms
o f taxes and the burden on that sector of our community ?
Is our community willing to consider some shift in the burden in the
Ag area queried David Tyler ?
The businesses going over the line ( Agway , new doctor office )
are what worry ne , said Dave Allen . Tom Reitz said that Gun Black
went to Interlaken specifically because of water . They needed that
phase to promote their product .
A map of the underdeveloped commercial areas should be created
said Krys . Send them to the realtors if you ' re really serious said
D ave Allen .
B each mentioned that he didn ' t think it was necessary to go
t o the lake to get water . There is a good supply of well water
between Kraft and Agard Road .
Tom inquired if there is interest in creating other 82 zones
o n the Planning Boards ' part ? David responded that waster and sewer
® need to go along with it , otherwise it is an exercise in futility .
They have considered the area south of Town ( Shur - Save on down to
H alsey House ) . A 13 zone for heavier commercial use has been con -
sidered too , said Krys .
Tom asked about the Pleasant Grove Associates area . It is on
hold basically , as they are not up and running . Krys asked about
Tom ' s impressions of that area . He felt it was a bit restrictive .
D iscussion of having gradations in the Business Zone ensued .
B each commented that that only creates more controls . When you try
to juxtapose something of fairly intense use up against a Residential
area you run into a hornet ' s nest , said David . There isn ' t a heck
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TOWN OF ULYSSES 5
P LANNING BOARD BUSINESS FORUM
MARCH 14 , 1994
of a lot of difference between a B2 , 133 and a PUD said Beach .
Rural Planning Development is the upcoming planning strategy said
D avid Allen . As long as they fit into the neighborhood , is the key
issue . Dave Allen suggested that that issue really should be re -
solved by the neighbors and not the local Planning Board . The
lack of motels is a problem in our area said Larry . That is some -
thing that needs to be promoted .
The court decision that we received a year ago , made it clear
t hat the PUD cannot be used as broadly as it has been used in this
Town in the past . That was really the only zoning tool that we
®
were using . We need to designate areas where these things can go
as a right so that people aren ' t coming into the Town Board , to
h ave a development district run through the Planning Board , and
back to the Town Board , etc . That ' s where we are lacking . The
P lanning Board is working on these specific locations for these
particular types of uses so people can get their, building permit
and go , said David . With the restrictions in place in 82 they
still have to come before the Board said Dan . It is that site
plan review aspect , said Krys .
Krys asked if anyone was considering expansion currently ?
Several people have approached us , wanting to establish businesses ,
and we say , no chance . The attitudes are such that it will never
get anywhere said Beach . They were interested in purchasing
property or we would build buildings for them to rent . It would
be on the commercial property .
Dave Allen mentioned two large businesses in the Town of
E nfield and The Town of Newfield . He knew that one produces jet
engine parts ( Lockheed ) . The other he was unsure of . Both businesses
are very much out of the way and no one would know they even were
there unless you happened upon them .
David thanked everyone for coming and encouraged them to
invite other businesses to the next forum ( March 21st ) .
The meeting adjourned at 9 : 50 PM .
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