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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-03-14 - PB IF TOWN OF ULYSSES P LANNING BOARD BUSINESS FORUM MARCH 14 , 1994 TOWN HALL P RESENT : CHAIRMAN DAVID TYLER ; MEMBERS : BUDD STOVER , DAN SMITH , GREG HOFFMIRE , GERRII' KEIL , KRYS CAIN, ; SECRETARY : ROXANNE SMITH G UESTS : DAVID ALLEN , CATHERINE AND BEACH STOVER , DOUG AUSTIC , TOM REITZ , KAREN AND LARRY THOMPSON , RUTH KAHN . The Chairman called the Business Forum to order at 7 : 38 PM . H e gave a preamble to the guests on what the Planning Board is ® hoping to achieve with the two scheduled forums . The Board is seeking to find out how businesses fit into our community . The Members are looking for input ; ideas on how this community can e ncourage the businesses it has and perhaps foster some new busi - n esses . The local Chamber ' s businesses were all contacted . There will be another forum on Monday , March 21st to accomodate those who could not make this meeting . David mentioned that on two sep - arate occasions the Board listened to two speakers . The first was Mike Stamm from Tompkins County Area Development ( TCAD ) ; the second was Tom King from the Tompkins County Chamber of Commerce , specific - ally the Convention and Visitors Bureau . Out of these two meetings t he Members arrived at two conclusions : 1 . Trumansburg is well set for attracting tourism . 2 . The Chamber of Commerce ' s budget is supplied by the room tax ( a sizeable amount ) . How much of that , that is collected from local B & Bs and Inns , comes back to the Town of Ulysses ? With the introduction completed , David turned the meeting over to t he guests . Planning Board Member Budd Stover. ( seated in the audience ) , asked , what does the Planning Board see as the future of agriculture in this Town ? David replied that historically agriculture has been a shrinking part of our economy . He mentioned Glen Applebee ( previous 1 Master Plan Committee Member. ) . His findings here and in the Northeast were that it would continue to shrink unless some vital incentives were provided to encourage it . He cited Vermont . It undertook 1 q uite an initiative about 20 years ago to provide tax incentives for agriculture , especially dairy farming . It helped to the extent that t he farming industry there has held its own . They did put more tax burden on their businesses though . Agriculture will continue to d iminish if there is no help at the state level or the very least the local level , said David . Gerri asked what the proportion of agricul - tural land was , that was actually being utilized in the Town of Ulysses ; and how many people owned it ( many small farms versus a few large farm i o wners ) ? Exemptions have to be maintained , absolutely , replied Krys . P eople coming into the community ( in new housing ) need to know that t hat is not going to change . Dan mentioned the right to farm legisla - t ion that has been enacted . The Planning Board should not write any restrictions on Residential or Commercial that will infringe on t hat policy . David stated , a year ago , the State came through and • said that every time there is a conveyance of a piece of property in the Ag district , there has to be a statement from the seller to the buyer , that the buyer acknowledges that this property is in an Ag d istrict with intended agricultural activity . Krys thought that in a positive vein it might be possible to put pressure on the County to assess property that is actively farmed differently than agricultural land that is waiting for development . Beach stated that one way to preserve farm land is to make it profitable . The real estate taxes need to be reduced . Farmers in N ew York State are paying twice what farmers pay in Pennsylvania for Workman ' s Compensation . Small businesses are facing that too . Seneca. County is considering a 6 % tax rate , which could draw a lot of Ulysses ' s 7 • TOWN OF ULYSSES 2 PLANNING BOARD BUSINESS FORUM MARCH 14 , 1994 businesses that way . They are welcoming them with open arms . We cannot tax ourselves into prosperity . Dan said there are only a - bout 4 full time farmers in his age group . The question is not will you ever be able to regain , but do you want to keep what you h ave ? David asked if the exemptions created in the 50 ' s were help - ful ? Dan replied that the benefits are decreasing about 3 % a year . In 5 to 8 years ( if the trend continues ) it will all be negligible . O riginally the breaks were up to 50 % off the tax bill . Krys men - t ioned a surprising factor - it is based on soil type - you get a ® better break if you farm poor soil ! Gerri said the formula worked better when there were lots of small farms . Doug responded that if he went into an ag district it would have doubled his assessment . Your best farm land is going to grow your best houses , commented Budd . K rys suggested that fire protection could be assessed differently for agricultural land . The school taxes are the most burdensome said Gerri , across the board . An area the Planning Board has little control over , responded Krys . Ithaca school taxes are the lowest in t he County . One third of the assessment in the Town of Ulysses is in that district , said Catherine . Beach mentioned that we are losing land to the State a little piece at a time , which reduces the tax base . A part - time farmer working another job can write off his losses . A full time farmer who has 3 bad years in a row will go under , said D an . Larry Thompson wondered if income based versus property tax could be promoted ? Ruth Kahn responded that as a delegate to a school board convention , she heard that topic addressed . It was stated t hat it must be made a priority . B each stated in order to help small businesses you need to be less restrictive . A B2 has to comply to site plan review . A lot o f our sales tax is going to Seneca County . L arry Thompson said small businesses need municipal water . Mr . S tamm ' s focus is in Ithaca . There isn ' t a benefit to our Township . We could promote a better tax break than Ithaca ( lower rent here ) . H e makes statements that deter businesses from coming here . D avid interpreted some of Mike Stamm ' s comments to mean that t he businesses that do not require close proximity to the northeast corridor of our county ( airport area ) ; the businesses that are here already ; are the businesses that will be the most successful . This is why the Members decided on this forum . They hope to hear businesses say , we ' re here ; we ' re thinking of expanding ; we ' re doing well ; we ' re n ot doing well ; why or why not . Obviously the business here that e xpands and does well , that ' s going to be our strongest basis for improving our community . Beach queried who is it that says whether a business is a good business or a poor. one ? The American way of life - you have a right to be successful or a failure . We have no ✓ ight judging whether one business is going to be better than another . ® David responded that one of the biggest complaints is the tax burden . A promotional point being made about the 82 coming in here will be that businesses ( retail , grocery store ) would provide for increased t ax revenues , resulting in some needed relief . The poor business will be a detriment to your tax base . It will cost the Town money . B each again asked , who would be the judge in deciding whether it ' s a g ood or a poor business ? Those judgements are made regularly in housing , stated Krys . We say we don ' t have mobile homes in the Town o f Ulysses unless they ' re in a park and that every dwelling needs t o be at least 750 square feet . That means that certain types of houses aren ' t built here , period . She asked the audience if they had a clear idea of why businesses aren ' t utilizing the commercial district ? D avid Allen said he would like to speak to that . He gave a brief 1 / TOWN OF ULYSSES 3 P LANNING BOARD BUSINESS FORUM MARCH 14 , 1994 h istory of his business experience . He has been a half owner of the ✓ illage Greenhouse , prior to that he was with White ' s Nursery ( 17 years ) and has owned a store up at the Pyramid Mall . There is an aura starting with the Village that says " not in my backyard - no g rowth " . It has creeped inticr the Town of Ulysses . A small business will have start - up costs of at least $ 50 , 000 to $ 100 , 000 . That ' s a scratch . To do business in Ulysses you can plan on spending as much money on a lawyer too . For this Town to really want to do business , you have got to change that perception ( attitude ) . When h e works in Seneca County , the attitude there is , what can we do t o help you ? That is known going in . They ' re " user friendly " . They are not , here . Integration of businesses is good . When a business has a down time , and they all do , it will be somewhat masked by the other successful businesses . You avoid strips of empty lots ( like what you see outside of Buffalo with the defunct defense industry ) . The Planning Board has got to sell itself . The business community has a bad taste as a result of past Planning Boards . The word gets out fast . The developers know which Towns are more accept - ing . Larry Thompson spoke about available commercial space . ( He is an owner of Ulysses Square . ) When he saw an article in the Journal written by Mike Stamm regarding the needfor more space , he galled h im to make him aware of Ulysses Square . He was told that that was n ot how they operated . He does not feel that Mike Stamm is inter - e sted in promoting space in the Town of Ulysses , only Ithaca . David Tyler said that the point Larry made about water and sewer was excellent . The Members have gone on record stating that t hey support a water initiative . Larry responded that water is not t hat far away . Krys asked the audience which was the more likely o ption - water from the Village of Trumansburg , or water from Bolton P oint ? Everyone agreed on Bolton Point . Bolton Point is offering it . Dan stated to the audience that the Planning Board had a joint meeting with the Village Planning Board . They told them that the Master Plan is currently being worked on . If they continue to stonewall on water and sewer the Board can just as easily change t he Master Plan and put the thrust of Ulysses ' s commercial develop - ment down in the Bolton Point area . Larry made the observation t hat the Village ' s supply is somewhat limited . He could have had at least two more tenants if he had more water . David Allen asked what the Planning Boards ' feelings were a - bout small businesses ? David Tyler responded that there has not been a cohesive thrust of how they want things to go . As examples , h e cited the Shur - Save area and the inability to get a commitment o n municipal water , and the Auble property , north of the Village , again potential for commercial , business development . The lack of water and sewer is a big stumbling block . There are smaller businesses that are not critically in need o f water and sewer , said David Allen . Krys asked , in the already established commercial zones , what are the reasons for the businesses t o keep from utilizing them ? Water is the issue , along with terrain t hat isn ' t appropriate . If you want to change anything from Residen - t ial / Agricultural ( PUD ) you have to come before the Board , said Dan . There are not set time frames , that a developer can give to their financial institutions or their builder that states when a decision will be made . This has stopped development from getting off the ground , said Dan . This is an existing reputation that past Planning Boards have had , said Karen . Gerri suggested that a letter be sent t o realators making them aware of available commercial space . If you ask for a conversion of an existing property that ' s zoned Residential , to Commercial use , if it is granted outright , 7 ,r TOWN OF ULYSSES 4 PLANNING BOARD BUSINESS FORUM MARCH 14 , 1994 it does put some legal danger into the equation that a spot zoning d ecision has been made , said Krys . I don ' t know if it is more illegal than what the Commercial is , you have already got , said Beach . Budd mentioned a comment made by a Planning Board Member at a previous Master Plan meeting . He stated that he would like to see h omes built in this Town that didn ' t have vinyl siding and board and batten siding . Budd thinks that making a statement like that is dangerous . Ruth agreed . L arry observed that those living in the Village ( who don ' t ® own a lot of land ) are willing to dictate to the small business owner / farmer what they should be doing with their property - yet t hey aren ' t the ones paying a lot of the taxes . ( He was referring to water and sewer. . ) One of the ways to create revenue would be to work together ( Village and Town ) to create a water district said Dan ( in the Village ) . Dave Allen mentioned that Hector did it ( water only ) . Krys shared with everyone that TCAD ' s water survey should be ready soon ( by April ) . Doug said that the Village has the capacity to service 150 - 200 new homes . Krys would like to see the break down of what it will cost the Village for t he upgrade . If there were more light industry in the ISA Babcock area , K rys didn ' t see that harming the Village . However , if the water were brought up that fa .r. ( from Bolton ) it would probably make it h arder for Ulysses Square to get tenants , said Dan . D avid Tyler said that two big problems were hit upon : 1 . How do we have water and sewer service available as n eeded ? 2 . In the agricultural area , what is the future in terms o f taxes and the burden on that sector of our community ? Is our community willing to consider some shift in the burden in the Ag area queried David Tyler ? The businesses going over the line ( Agway , new doctor office ) are what worry ne , said Dave Allen . Tom Reitz said that Gun Black went to Interlaken specifically because of water . They needed that phase to promote their product . A map of the underdeveloped commercial areas should be created said Krys . Send them to the realtors if you ' re really serious said D ave Allen . B each mentioned that he didn ' t think it was necessary to go t o the lake to get water . There is a good supply of well water between Kraft and Agard Road . Tom inquired if there is interest in creating other 82 zones o n the Planning Boards ' part ? David responded that waster and sewer ® need to go along with it , otherwise it is an exercise in futility . They have considered the area south of Town ( Shur - Save on down to H alsey House ) . A 13 zone for heavier commercial use has been con - sidered too , said Krys . Tom asked about the Pleasant Grove Associates area . It is on hold basically , as they are not up and running . Krys asked about Tom ' s impressions of that area . He felt it was a bit restrictive . D iscussion of having gradations in the Business Zone ensued . B each commented that that only creates more controls . When you try to juxtapose something of fairly intense use up against a Residential area you run into a hornet ' s nest , said David . There isn ' t a heck I , TOWN OF ULYSSES 5 P LANNING BOARD BUSINESS FORUM MARCH 14 , 1994 of a lot of difference between a B2 , 133 and a PUD said Beach . Rural Planning Development is the upcoming planning strategy said D avid Allen . As long as they fit into the neighborhood , is the key issue . Dave Allen suggested that that issue really should be re - solved by the neighbors and not the local Planning Board . The lack of motels is a problem in our area said Larry . That is some - thing that needs to be promoted . The court decision that we received a year ago , made it clear t hat the PUD cannot be used as broadly as it has been used in this Town in the past . That was really the only zoning tool that we ® were using . We need to designate areas where these things can go as a right so that people aren ' t coming into the Town Board , to h ave a development district run through the Planning Board , and back to the Town Board , etc . That ' s where we are lacking . The P lanning Board is working on these specific locations for these particular types of uses so people can get their, building permit and go , said David . With the restrictions in place in 82 they still have to come before the Board said Dan . It is that site plan review aspect , said Krys . Krys asked if anyone was considering expansion currently ? Several people have approached us , wanting to establish businesses , and we say , no chance . The attitudes are such that it will never get anywhere said Beach . They were interested in purchasing property or we would build buildings for them to rent . It would be on the commercial property . Dave Allen mentioned two large businesses in the Town of E nfield and The Town of Newfield . He knew that one produces jet engine parts ( Lockheed ) . The other he was unsure of . Both businesses are very much out of the way and no one would know they even were there unless you happened upon them . David thanked everyone for coming and encouraged them to invite other businesses to the next forum ( March 21st ) . The meeting adjourned at 9 : 50 PM . •