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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-04-13 - TB 411 TOWN OF ULYSSES REGULAR TOWN BOARD MEETING April 13 , 1993 P resent : Supervisor William Hogan ; Councilpeople Catherine S tover , Ben Curtis , Tom- Reitz , Robert Weatherby ; H ighway Superintendent James - Meeker ; ° Town Clerk Marsha III Georgia . O thers Present : Gail Zabawski , Phil Colvin , ' Mr . Bennett , L . S cott , Beach Stover , Bill Dean , Charles Oaks , Don Fairchild , Ruth Kahn , Mr . Wright ', Mark Corl , Mary McLallen , David Tyler , Julie - McComb - Odyssey P ublications , and others . . S upervisor Hogan called the meeting of the Town Board to order at 7 : 40pm and led those in attendance in the Pledge of Allegi- ance . to - the Flag of the United States of - America . - - . Mr . Reitz moved , seconded by Mr . Curtis approval of the minutes o f the Regular Town Board Meeting of March- 9 , 1993 : Unanimously approved . Report : Trumansburq Fire • Department N o report this evening . Report : Representative James Mason N o report this evening . III Claims Mr . Hogan entertained a motion to approve Claims # 95 136 in the 9 pP amount of $ 19 , 674 . 39 ; moved by Mr . Curtis , seconded by Mr . Weatherby . Unanimously approved . S upervisor ' s Financial Report • D istributed and reviewed . H earing of Delegations and Individuals N one O LD 'BUSINESS American Legion PUD Request Mr . Hogan said that a couple of people had asked if the Board was g oing to give the public an opportunity to speak at this meeting ✓ egarding this issue . Mr . Hogan said that he feel they have had w ay too much time to ponder this thing - and the - time for speaking and debating are over with . Feels the Board should get on with the vote and get this thing decided one way or - the - other so that the neighbors as well as the Legion - can go on about their III business . Don ' t know if all of you ( the - Board ) - agree with that statement , so what' s your feeling on that ? - * Do you- - want - to close o ff comments from the public and - vote ? ' If there is some brand n ew information that we haven ' t heard ; weld - like to hear it , - - o ther than that think we ' ve heard all the opinions - ande . arguments o n both sides of this issue . - Mr . Reitz said that the only thing he would like to ask . . . David Tyler , Chairman of the Ulysses Planning Board is - here - and they are working on a follow - up procedure and read through the minutes o f their meeting of March 22nd and things weren ' t clear . . . can you Town of Ulysses 2 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 highlight what took place ? Mr . Hogan said he asked David, • to . come. tonight and clarify the P lanning Board ' s positioi� 1• . - ; - P .,. . Mr . Tyler stated that at the ' Board ' meetirig in early February the matter was . referred to the . Planning Board for - further consideration and one . of " the suggestions was perhaps considering some sort of Special Permit procedure for what we came " down to calling a Social Club . . . rather a laborious term when you are w orking with it , but it came down to an organization which we w ould call a Social Club . , question was . . •. we spent one two and a half hour meeting tlking generalities and different ways we could approach the thing . . . and the meeting of the 22nd ( the minutes of the meeting in front of the Board ) we came down to three alternatives . The first alternative was to look at an amendment to this Zoning Ordinance ; the thrust of which comes from your minutes of the February Town Board meeting , that somehow .would a Social Club fit into a residential district . We only have one residential zone in this Town . One of the things w e discussed was the possibility of having two or more categories o f residential ; a lower density and a higher density type of zone w hichmight accommodate something like a Social Club . The problem w as , as a Planning Board we could certainly carve out something like that and then the question is where would you put it . We aren ' t at a point where we could make recommendations and I don ' t think the Town Board has information from the Master Plan Committee if we had two or three different types of residential zones , where you would locate them at this point and time . We felt that wasn ' t a viable alternative to get this matter ✓ esolved in the sixty day period that the Board had requested . S o at the Planning Board meeting of the 22nd , we looked at what w e have in our present Zoning Ordinance . We felt it was important to look at not . . . think there is some feeling that since a not - for - profit organization was involved that should get some special attention . . . we felt that from a Planning and Zoning point of view that the real issue was what kind of propensity of use d oes the organization propose to the neighborhood ; not if it was for profit but what kind of activities was it involved with . We looked at our Zoning Ordinance and said . . . look , we have a B1 zone ; would this type of activity interfere with the types of u ses that are in a B1 zone . . . in fact we found a lot of very close parallels in a B1 zone . We looked at the B2 zone , which was created about a year ago . In fact there are uses there that talk about assembly , that talk about restaurants and so forth , that are very close to this type of activity that the American Legion carries out at least from the perspective of those around it .. We then looked at the residential area and how it would fit into - there . So , the net result of our deliberation was , in terms of a Social Club or organization such as the American Legion or something like that , we felt , unanimously , it would clearly fit into a B1 zone . We also felt , unanimously that it would fit into a B2 zoneb and of course there was a restriction there ; think that there were activities going on between 11 : 00pm and 6 : 00am there w ould be a Special Permit process involved , , but that was certainly permissible . But , as far as the residential zone , even w ith a Special Permit , our decision was 6 to 1 not to recommend consideration of even a Special Permit process in a residential area . The reason for that was . . . if you elect , and there ' s a legislative act to say that a particular type of use can go in a ✓ esidential zone by Special Permit by a legislative determination , certainly you can have certain conditions added on to that , but basically if reasonable conditions are met that particular use can go into a residential zone , any part of the residential zone . We have no differentiation at this point , so w e felt it was really unwise to sort of throw the thing wide open '0 Town of Ulysses 3 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 e ven with a Special Permit process . This has been an issue that our Planning Board has wrestled with for quite some time . I think maybe the whole key to the thing w as , if you remember our original approval of the Development D istrict last summer , and the condition was that if it would cease to be the American Legion that it would go back into residential ; and we were told that was an illegal process and that it could not be done and that in fact the Development D istrict is rezoning . I think that is the real i'ssue . . . it came d own to whether it was appropriate to rezone , whether a PUD , by S pecial Permit or whatever , it was contrary to the general content of our Zoning Ordinance as it now exists . And frankly , that ' s where we came down . So the decision was pretty clear ; I think at our last meeting , clearly appropriate a B1 or B2 and clearly 6 - 1 not appropriate , ' even by Special Permit under our Zoning Ordinance as it now exists . Mr . Hogan thanked Mr . Tyler and the Planning Board for their hard w ork . He asked the Board where they wanted ' to go from here . Mr . Reitz . . . David , to follow up your discussion about the Si , B2 zones ; are any PUD ' s then appropriate in the Town Zoning Ordinance or this particular _ PUD request would not be appropriate ? Mr . Tyler said our feeling was . . . our decision was last November if you ' ll remember , was we failed to approve the thing for a ' , n umber of technical reasons , one of which dealt with the subject o f the particular development district . In terms of resolving this kind of problem , we ' re going to be in the process Of looking at our residential zone ; our own along with being given direction . . . it seems like an issue that keeps coming up . . . we ✓ eally need to refine our Zoning Ordinance a little bit to have more than one type of residential zone and that ' s what we are looking at right now . So development districts still have to comply , we are told , with certain zoning requirements ; you have to avoid getting into a sort of a trap of getting into what is called a spot zoning problem . Mr . Hogan asked if anyone would like to make the motion that we accept the Planning Board ' s recommendation ? As you know the P lanning Board is an advisory committee , it is up to us to make the decision . Mr . Curtis said he is a little bit at a loss as to what the recommendation is . . . seems to me when we left the last meeting , w as with the idea , the last time we discussed - this , that Alex w ould draw up kind of a sample zoning law change that would incorporate a definition for this type of use . Think there was one , basically , _ and in looking through the old proposed zoning change from a couple of years ago and they apparently recognized this . . . they called it community assembly . The Planning Board w ould review _ that and define that and come back with a ✓ ecommendation or come back to us with a proposal , or something like that . . I ' m not sure what it is we ' re approving or disapproving . Are you proposing a zoning change of some kind ? Mr . Tyler said a zoning change is necessary to _ really accommodate something like this . . . we ' ve talked about that proposal there before _ you , that ' s fine . . . but you wanted an answer within sixty d ays and Mr . Curtis appeared before us at this 22nd of March meeting and made a request that we consider something on kind of a stop gap basis to take care of this particular problem ; and the problem we dealt with cure was probably worse than the problem and we felt that it was not appropriate even by a Special Permit to try to shoehorn something in a residential zone as a Town of Ulysses tiq 4 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 residential zone now exists . What needs to happen , I think we are all aware of it , we need to update our Zoning Ordinance and w hat you are referring to right there is one of the things that n eeds to be handled . I think what we are getting back to you and saying from our meeting on the 22nd of ' March is that under our present Zoning Ordinance there was a concern that there was no place for a use such as this in the Town . . . that is not correct . . . we feel that a reasonable reading of the B2 says that they can fit into a B2 and certainly it is appropriate in a B1 as w ell . So it ' s not like they ca'n ' t exist anywhere in the Town . Perhaps the Town ' s Zoning Ordinance is a little crude at this point , and with refinement , which would take some time , have a broader application . With the time frame you gave us that was n ot really appropriate . Mr . Hogan said then what you are saying is the wording in the Zoning Ordinance right now in the B1 and the B2 would permit this type of organization , a Veteran ' s organization ? Mr . Tyler said especially a B2 which talks about public assembly and talks about restaurants and place serving alcohol and so forth . Those types of uses are clearly the types of things that are involved in an American Legion . Mr . Hogan said that doesn ' t specifically say Veteran ' s Service O rganization ? Mr . Tyler said no it does not . We looked at a n umber of other zoning ordinances , there was nothing as specific as that , almost all of them used the term ' community assembly ' , and a more popular term is ' Social Club ' , and then sometimes it d istinguishes between indoor and outdoor Social Clubs . Those are the types of organizations that are something like an American L egion or a VFW would fit under . The question about trying to come up with a definition for our Zoning Ordinance ; there are almost no definitions in terms of . . . it doesn ' t define what a church is , a school , and so forth and so on . We felt that the term ' Social Club ' , get into trying to define that might as well go back and define everything else in the Zoning Ordinance and that ' s if they were going back and starting from scratch , which I d on ' t think we thought was appropriate . Mr . Hogan said that basically what your recommendation then is that you are recommending that we deny the request from the L egion to build in a residential zone . Mr . Tyler said that came from our decision last November . Our d ecision last November was we did not approve the development d istrict . Then you asked us to look at this thing from the perspective of the zoning ordinance ; and we feel the spirit of it presents no problem with this type of use in a B1 or B2 district ; it does present a problem in a residential district for the reasons I have already explained . Basically not having any real specific limitation to put in a residential district with a Special Permit ; that we have one residential district in our Town . Mr . Curtis asked if something like a hunting club fall into the d efinition of a Social Club ? Mr . Tyler said I think that ' s true and would have to be defined . . . in fact you brought up the q uestion of the Conservatory as another type of community • o rganization and we felt that was quite different . . . it ' s really an educational organization rather than a social club type o rganization . They give ballet , art , piano lessons , etc . so that ' s an educational institution . Think the key to these types o f organizations is not whether they are not - for - profit or not , but what type of activities do they undertake which are analogous to other activities that are in the Zoning Ordinance . Town of Ulysses 5 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 Mr . Hogan asked Mr . Curtis if that answered his question . Mr . Curtis said so there is no proposed zoning change at this point that you are bringing to this Board ? Mr . Tyler said not in the time frame we were given . If we came to you with a proposal for , say , two or three different levels of residential , fine , but w here would you put them ? There ' s no input to decide whether this area should be low density residential district , if there ' s a residential district behind it , or residential apartments , • and so on . If we brought that back to you it would be something to ponder , you wouldn ' t have any way of implementing it , so we d idn ' t feel that was appropriate to do . - • • - Mr . Curtis said with the zoning business sometimes I feel like we h ave an old car with a flat tire and we keep saying we are going to buy a new car , or we could drive around with a flat tire . . . Mr . Hogan asked Mr . Curtis if he was all set . Mr . Curtis said Yeah , I guess , I still can ' t figure out if he ' s proposing that there be a group called Social Club , and then be permitted in a B1 or B2 or that would be a zoning change . Mr . Tyler said basically you have two alternatives , to look at the development - district or look at a minor zoning change which w ould say a - Social Club • would be appropriate in a B1 or B2 zone , as kind - of a stop - gap thing until we - can refine the Zoning O rdinance . There are - a - number - of things missing from the Zoning O rdinance , day care for instance is not provided for . . . there are a lot of - different things - that are fairly - common types of uses that just aren ' t - there . This became kind of one that focused - our attention on -• things , - but certainly there are a number of • other types of uses that . aren ' t specifically allocated in the Zoning O rdinance . - - - - • - . Mr . Curtis asked - if _ Alex brought a specific proposal to you that you guys then reacted to ? Mr . - Tyler said not exactly . . . we had a long discussion with Alex and what we wanted to do was go over it ourselves , what we felt - the alternatives were , and around the first week in - March or - late February , we spent two and a half h ours looking at various alternatives and so forth and one of the things was getting into definitions and we started looking at the existing Zoning Ordinance and its total lack . of definitions , felt it was - going to - be . . . well , it ' s like putting . new wine in old bottles -. • - • • Mr . Hogan said there is no question about it , we need to update the Zoning Ordinance . The Master Plan Committee is working at that , but what we need to do - is take care of the matter at hand . W e have a recommendation . . . well first of all the Planning Board ✓ ecommended against the PUD in a residential area and then we asked them to take a look at Special Permit basis , and they felt that was too liberal a tool to use , because if you set up some g uide-lines , anyone who met those guidelines could put any kind of e stablishment - in - a residential district -. So if my neighbor . w anted to sell his house anybody who met the regulations , the ✓ estrictions , of that • particular Special Permit , could . go in there and put . a- Moose Club or Sons - of Italy or whatever , right n ext doors to anybody, in - any - residential area . - - In any case . . . Mr . Tyler said he ran across a case recently that was a - permitted u se in a certain district and what - the - Board tried to do was put o n a -lot of - conditions and sort - of make - it . impossible and . the Court came along- and said you can ' t do that , you ' ve made. a legislative determination - for the zone with a special permit and w hat you ' ve tried to do is rule it out by making impossible conditions •, they- said that was not permissible .. - Think if you are g oing to say that something can - go in by Special Permit , think it w ill go there only if they meet reasonable requirements . . . you Town of Ulysses 6 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 can ' t make them jump over hoops and so forth . Mr . Reitz said , David , isn ' t it true that the Special Permits are n ot a criteria for Special Permit in our Zoning Ordinance , per se ? Mr . Tyler said as it stands now , that is correct . We ' ve fashioned a very elaborate Special Permit process that still is n ot going to be a perfect tool because , as the Supervisor said , you are right in the middle of a solid , residential neighborhood and someone sells their house , and if they can meet certain ✓ equirements , that could become a Social Club . And the question becomes , is that appropriate ? Seems to me that setting was too broad a clause to achieve a needed goal . What you need to do is to have specific area where something like this would logically fit . - - Mr . Weatherby said , is this maybe a case of possibly the o rganization applied for a PUD and maybe was misdirected in the proper zoning classifications they asked for or requested ? Maybe they should have tried one of these other classifications . Mr . Hogan said he didn ' t think so . Mr . Tyler said what do you mean ; in a B2 or whatever ? Mr . Hogan said this is obviously a case where the land was available at a reasonable price and a lot of the people felt strongly that it was a good place for it to go , so that ' s why they came in with the request . Mr . Weatherby said I am just saying that maybe if they had come w ith the request for one of these other zones instead of a PUD . . . Mr . Hogan said , well sure , Yeah . Mr . Tyler said there was discussion of that , even in our early review of the PUD last spring ; the parcel up here had just been rezoned B2 , and suggested why don ' t you consider that and they said it wasn ' t economically feasible ; those issues were presented and discussed and the applicant felt they weren ' t appropriate . Mr . Curtis said it wouldn ' t fit into that ; there ' s a provision for indoor recreation , but I believe the Legion proposes indoor and outdoor recreation . Mr . Tyler said we looked at that and felt that there were things , public assembly and so forth , that certainly would appear , don ' t think it would do any damage for an organization like that to be in a B2 zone . The B2 is a pretty broad - based zone . Mr . Curtis asked . . . when you talk about a Social Club , do you include in that , in your discussion , restaurant , bars , and all those social . . . under that same category ? Mr . Tyler said ✓ estaurants and private place of business or enterprise , that ' s w hat it is . Mr . Curtis said , and a Social Club is not - for - profit or private ? Mr . Tyler said if you consider the Conservatory as a Social Club , I think it ' s kind of a misnomer . It ' s very different from an American Legion : Think what we came down to is it ' s not what you call it it ' s what it looks like in terms of other kinds of u ses . . . an American Legion looks like something that has outdoor activities , has a lot of indoor activities , a restaurant and bar , people coming and going and so forth , it ' s clearly a fairly intense type of use . It ' s not something that would fit in very easily into a quiet residential neighborhood . To put something like that , like I said , in the middle of a residential area , w ould have some concern . Even though the area it ' s placed in is w hat we would maybe call a rural residential area , it ' s still predominately residential and certainly has generated a lot of concern with the people who live there . Cr Town of Ulysses 7 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 Mr . Hogan . . . are you all set Ben . . . I know you are not happy , and unfortunately we are not going to be able to make everybody happy w ith the rules we have to work with . But we need to act on this thing one way or the other . I will make a motion that we take the Planning Board ' s recommendations and we deny the Legion ✓ equest for a PUD on RT 227 . Is there a second ? : . N o second heard , Mr . Hogan asked the Board ' s pleasure . _ . Mr . Reitz moved that we go back to the Planning Board ' s - ✓ ecommendation which they approved 5 - 1 to approve the development of that Legion on 227 ; extracting out item # 6 , which our attorney says may not be legal . • Mr . Hogan said OK , there ' s a motion on the floor to go back to the original Planning Board recommendation , extracting that one item . . . is there a second to that motion ? Mr . Curtis seconded - for discussion . Mr . Curtis said with the original recommendation from the P lanning Board , with the thirteen items , minus one item , I had some concerns about the landscaping proposal . It was suggested for example that evergreen seedlings shall be planted and maintained around - the entire perimeter of the property . Of major concern that - I heard from - nearby : residents were the : headlights of cars coming and going -. and visual impact : I . don ' t think that seedlings • are • going to - do very much - and : I : would like to propose , under # 1 , that be changed to 6 ' : evergreen trees . - Mr . Hogan said I think 6 ' in - height is a little unreasonable , g ets to be a : pretty expensive - tree . Any other : discussion ? What about spot zoning on this whole : issue . .: : has - . that gone - away ? Mr . Reitz said no more than any PUD we ' ve approved before . If the question comes up and it _ s - spot zoning , we ' ll be - taken to task for it . . - _ Mr . Curtis said that one . thing . . . I think they have a real problem singling this particular PUD out and saying that it should be held to a standard - of - spot zoning . This hasn ' t been the practice in the past , it ' s inconsistent with what we ' ve : done : in the past . When you - have - an . applicant , that _ as I read through these conditions , has made , _ I _ think ; some extraordinary efforts to accommodate the concerns that - have been -. expressed at these hearings , . and I ' ve - sat : ; through other - proceedings of _ similar types o f requests where there - has been : very _ little : effort - to move in the direction of addressing the concerns of people as they have been expressed . . . so I think , to me it would be unreasonable to pull up . the standard . at this °. point . and _ sa y that _ we should : begin to apply it with this . particular . proposal : -. Mr . Hogan said actually , _ the reason -_ I mention it is because we haven ' t had , . at least since I ' ve been here , that much opposition to a PUD : request that have come _ up over : the years : _ Here ' s a ✓ equest where : the -. majority : of the : neighbors are not comfortable w ith this . particuiar -. use - and _ if -. the " majority : of your ._ neighbors aren ' t - going to - be happy with you - then - that certainly - is • a consideration . _ - : The - spot zoning issue has : been : discussed at length ; it :'.; s . a very serious -- concern . . as : far as . i _ m - concerned , spot zoning : If we ' re going _ to makee. a decision : here -_ and - we ' re - going to possibly . spend the - Town _ - funds . to - defend _ something - - that looks to be pretty suspect _ to - - begin - with ; I _ think it _ s - kind of - irresponsible . to _ use . Town : money : : Mr . Reitz said the spot zoning issue ., I think , was with . # 6 in there -; : and that ' s been withdrawn . . . that removes that potential . . Town of Ulysses " 8 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 Mr . Hogan said the entire project , not just item # 6 , the entire project is a concern . Mr . Curtis said in spite of our use of a mechanism of a B2 in the case of the Auble project , I don ' t see a great deal of distinction , and quite a lot of opposition was expressed there ; but to me an overwhelming difference here , that we have an applicant who appears to me to have listened to what was said and in the limitations that they ' ve been willing to accept in terms of the activity , in terms of the hours that they operate , in \terms of the plantings they will be able to do , in terms of the ;<` cidring of the building , distance from the road , that they have made an effort , which to me is a large part of what this process is about , they have made an effort to accommodate the people , which is something I don ' t think I found in the other case . Mr . Hogan said I don ' t disagree with that Ben . I think they have made a supreme effort . What I ' m talking about is the legality of the whole process here , which to me is questionable . Mr . Curtis said as I read our ordinance it seems to me , I ' m q uoting from memory without looking it up , but one of the purposes of a PUD was to allow development if it were not provided for elsewhere in the Zoning Ordinance . And I frankly don ' t believe that this one is . Also I can ' t see that this is a misapplication of the PUD , if there ever was an application . U nless we go to the trouble to define that , and there was a d efinition of that type of thing in the proposed ZORK Ordinance . . . community assembly which tried to define that . . . and o ddly enough their recommendation . . . although we never went anywhere with this . . . their recommendation was that it be permitted in both business and residential areas with Site Plan Review or it could be a Special Permit , but we are obviously not g oing in that direction , so I think if we are falling back to the tools that we ' ve used then it ' s our obligation to use those tools fairly . And in this particular case seems to Ae t at the applicants are exemplary and I can ' t see that e`( ° ` be penalized in a way when other applicants haven ' t been . Mr . Hogan asked for other comments . Mr . Curtis said the one concern that he has was the issue of the evergreen seedlings , that one I picked up . . . I think there were other concerns about the actual site lay out and areas where there could be some improvement with a reasonable effort on the part of the applicant and I think I would like the opportunity to have a final review o f their site plan , when the final one is prepared . Other than that . . . Mr . Hogan said as far as I ' m concerned myself , I ' ve thought about this long and hard , I have an awful lot of respect for the L egion , they do a lot for the community , but what it comes down to , it ' s not a popularity kind of test , it ' s a zoning issue , it ' s a land use issue . If we ' re going to have zoning and you tell someone , OK this is zoned residential , if you buy a piece of property here you ' re pretty safe because this is residential . And for most people that ' s the largest investment they ever make in their lifetime . . . in a piece of property and a home . And then after that person invests that money , you say OOPS , we ' ve changed our mind , we ' re not going to allow just residences here , we ' re g oing to put a service organization here , a Social Club . . . it ' s g oing to run a bar and a restaurant . Think what you ' ve done is you ' ve lowered the value of that person ' s investment considerably , cause you ' re hitting them right in the pocketbook . To my way of thinking , if you ' re going to have zoning , have zoning , if you aren ' t , throw zoning out ; but don ' t tell people o ne thing and then do something else , I don ' t think that ' s fair . ■ Town of Ulysses 9 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 And I don ' t think it ' s sound to hit people in the pocketbook . I ' m very concerned about the legal ramifications of this particular situation as far as spot zoning is concerned . Mr . Tyler asked if there were , any other questions for him . . . Mr . H ogan said no , thank you very much . Mr . Tyler said I know you have a tough decision , but there ' s an old thought that judges and lawyers have which is " Hard cases make bad laws " . Mr . Curtis said guess the point I would make Bill , is this , that this particular use is not provided for elsewhere in the Zoning Law . Mr . Hogan said I think that is questionable . Mr . Curtis said as I read it ' s not the mechanism that ' s provided is a PUD . I think that with a PUD this Board has the responsibility to minimize the impact of that development . To do what you ' re saying , essentially to try to protect the neighbors as much as people can do , I believe that effort has been made . I believe that the requirements that have been put forth by the Planning B oard in their original recommendations go a long way towards d oing that . There are some additional items I think could be d one and be done at reasonable expense and in that sense I would agree with you that we owe that much to the neighbors to make sure that this thing is placed in that location in a way that minimizes the impact . For that reason I would like to include a final review of the site plan . Mrs . Georgia asked if the final site plan review would be included as a number ? You are asking to review it , but you ' re not asking for specifics ? I want to make it clear . . . needs to be clarified when I write it up for publication . So you want to review and approve . . . if you don ' t approve the site plan then the PUD is not passed ? Are there going to be stipulations . . . Mr . Curtis said Yes , like any of the other conditions . Mrs . Georgia asked . . . but what are those conditions of your ✓ eview . . . someone would have to know that . Mr . Curtis said it would mean before they went ahead they would submit whatever the final site plan is to us and we could look it o ver and approve it . Mr . Hogan said that would be . . . Mr . Curtis said that goes in with a B2 . . . Mr . Hogan continued : that would be done anyway , right ? Mr . Curtis said I don ' t know . Mr . Hogan said by the building inspector . Mrs . Georgia said reviewing it is just reviewing it but if there ' s something in there you don ' t like that has to be spelled out or how else is anyone going to know that . How do you w rite that in there ? Mr . Curtis said I think this Board would have to approve the final site plan . Mrs . Georgia said . . . say for the Legion ' s protection what is it you are going to approve or disapprove ? That ' s a very broad statement . Mr . Hogan asked Mr . Curtis . . . are you talking about the location o f the building ? Mr . Curtis said he ' s talking more in terms of the screening and the way the driveway comes out ; there were a number of issues that were raised . Mrs . Georgia said that has to be spelled out in exact ✓ equirements of the PUD because if they don ' t meet that ✓ equirement then the PUD is null and void , but it can ' t be so broad that no one knows where they stand . Mr . Curtis said Marsha I don ' t know how to answer you , this is d one all the time , it ' s approved and that ' s one of the ✓ equirements before Alex issues the building permit . What can I Town of Ulysses 10 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 tell you . We ' re not breaking new ground here . Mr . Hogan said item # 3 talks about the rest of the landscaping shall be as per the site plan . So you already have a site plan . Mrs . Georgia said right , we already have that . Mr . Hogan said the location of the building is already determined , so . . . Mr . Curtis said I can revise that to say landscape plan . Mrs . Georgia said usually that ' s approved before . . . we have all that on file now is what I ' m saying . Are you saying you don ' t approve what ' s on file now , that you want them to bring different . . . I ' m not trying to argue with you , I ' m trying to clarify it so it can be written up . We have a landscape plan n ow . Mr . Curtis said right and it had on it , for instance , seedlings 6 ' high , vegetative buffer which shall achieve a height of 15 ' w ithin three years . . . frankly I don ' t quite know what that means , I ' m not sure how you figure out what that means , is that h oneysuckle ? Mrs . Georgia said that in the past we have written it in . . . like w ith Spruce Row we wrote in what kind of trees . Mr . Hogan said it has to be bushes or trees that would be 15 ' high in three years . Can ' t be a green fence . Basically , what you want to do is to ask Tom to amend his motion to include a ✓ eview of the landscaping as initially put on the site plan ? Mr . Curtis said I don ' t think the site plan incorporates all of these things . Mr . Reitz said the latest version upon the public h earing was revised site plan including the location of the building was moved . Mr . Curtis said then these requirements were put on afterwards ? Mr . Reitz said this was submitted as part of the public hearing and then as a result of the public hearing there were revisions made in the site plan , landscaping scheme and location of the building was moved slightly . You could say that the site plan to be approved by the Town Board prior to issuing a Certificate of O ccupancy . Mr . Curtis said or prior to issuing the building permit . . . that is what I ' m suggesting . Mr . Hogan asked if Mr . Reitz wanted to add that to his motion . Mr . Reitz said I thought that said that in part in item # 11 . . . all landscaping shown on S ite Plan and that additionally provided for herein shall be in place before Certificate of Occupancy shall be issued by the Town Zoning / Code Enforcement Officer . Mr . Curtis said Yeah , I ' m just suggesting we review it before the building permit goes out . Mr . Hogan said OK . Mrs . Georgia asked . . . review Site Plan or landscaping plan , or both? Mr . Reitz said the Site Plan is the landscaping plan and the building location , the site is the overall site . Mrs . Georgia said . . . before the building permit is issued ? Is that how you w ant it ? Mr . Hogan said before Certificate of Occupancy . Mr . Curtis said before the building permit , that is what I ' m ✓ ecommending . That ' s the only area , I believe , that we can in any meaningful way minimize the impact of this project on the n eighbors . Mr . Hogan asked if there were any more comments or discussion ? Mr . Curtis asked for point of information . . . did we include that change or not ? Mrs . Georgia said , I wrote it . . . Review and approve by Town Board Site Plan before the building permit is issued . The other change is the 6 ' trees on item # 1 . Hearing n o further discussion Mr . Hogan called for a roll call vote . Town of Ulysses 11 tN s' Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 Mr . Weatherby Aye Mr . Curtis Aye Mrs . Stover Aye Mr . Reitz Aye Mr . Hogan Nay Approved . Mr . Hogan said the PUD is approved 4 - 1 , thereby satisfying the super majority vote as required . • Mrs . Georgia asked if there was a legal description . Mr . Reitz said it should be in the file . Member ' s Initiative Mr . Reitz said he has an item for Old Business . Martin Luster ' s office called regarding Member ' s Initiative . We have applied in the past for water for Jacksonville . Mr . Hogan said have applied for Salt Shed also . Mr . Reitz said they want to know if we are still interested in resubmitting . Discussed this item for a few minutes . Mr . Reitz will be talking with the office regarding this . . . will find out deadline , other particulars . - Mr . Hogan said this is to renew an old request or submit a new one ? Mr . Reitz said correct . . . they were reviewing our . old ✓ equest and - wanted to know if we wanted to resubmit . If you want to support a new request I have a project ; that would be building a water tower on the North end of Town . Clearly a need to protect residents and think the Village would go along with it . Mr . Hogan - said he isn ' t clear as to why we would want to put . up - a w ater tower , we don ' t have any water . Mr . Reitz said work with - - the Village . Mr . Hogan said would see that as a Village problem n ot the Town . If the Village is trying to provide adequate water and charging people for it then it ' s up to them to find adequate pressure , not for the Town to provide that pressure , cause we ' re n ot getting any money for that water . Mr . Reitz said there are Town residents in the area . . •. perhaps we could work this out with the Village . Would also enhance the proposed development there . : : the - B2 zone . Mr . Hogan said you are basically suggesting this if we have the o pportunity to submit a new request ? Mr . Reitz said Yes . . Mr . H ogan said the one thing that comes to mind is this building . We could use some new siding and insulation on this building ; new floors , few other things . We could probably spend $ 25 , 000 . on this building in no time . Mr . Reitz said we have $ 22 , 000 . in the budget for that . Mr . Curtis asked if there was a cap . Mr . Reitz didn ' t know . Mr . Curtis said where Tom is heading would be a g ood idea . If we had a joint venture with the Village ; something like a second well . Would like to see a joint venture with a commitment or contract with the Village to send water to Jacksonville once we were able to put the rest of the puzzle together . Think a lot of Town residents would benefit . also . Mr . Hogan said there are a lot of Town residents you are going to h ave a hard time explaining why we are building a water tower for ✓ illage water for a few residents on the North end of Town . Mr . Curtis said frankly he is more concerned about a second well as being a key part of the puzzle . Mr . Hogan said you are talking big bucks when talking about the Jacksonville water project . W e ' ve talked about that before and have struck out before . Mr . Curtis said that is why you do one piece at a time ; don ' t spend as much - money . Mr . Reitz said he has received information _ about Town of Ulysses 12 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 monies being provided by the Clinton administration to deal with infrastructure . Mr . Reitz said he just doesn ' t want to see the Jacksonville water issue die . Agree with Mr . Curtis about the second well , but don ' t want to spend Town money for that since it wouldn ' t benefit the Town . Mr . Curtis said perhaps the way we are heading , never g etting this grant through or getting anywhere with this water project . . . if this is an opportunity to bring a little money back from Albany that can be earmarked for that project . Mr . Hogan asked how much money are we talking about . Mr . Reitz said he didn ' t recall . . . each legislature gets so many dollars and they sub - divide it . Mr . Hogan said you might be talking $ 75 , 000 . Mr . Reitz said there is the engineering study , etc . After further discussion , Mr . Reitz said he would get further information from Mr . Luster and return to the Board . N EW BUSINESS Fire Hall Construction Mr . Hogan asked if everyone had the information on the Fire Hall construction payments / agreement . Mrs . Stover said she would like to see a termination date of February 1997 in the resolution . Mr . Reitz said he isn ' t sure when the bond was issued , we passed a resolutioniin February 1987 to go into a contract . Not sure if they bonded then . Mr . , Curtis said there must be some alternative or why wouldn ' t you just contract for the entire ten years . Mr . Reitz said State Law says you can ' t . Mrs . Stover said she would like to say ' continue the contract until the bond is paid ' . Was suggested ' for five ( 5 ) years or until the Bond is retired , whichever comes first ' . Mr . Reitz moved the following resolution , seconded by Mr . Curtis : RESOLVED : that the Town Board of the Town of Ulysses hereby indicates its willingness to continue the contract with the Village of Trumansburg with regard to the construction costs of the new fire hall for five ( 5 ) years or until the Bond is retired , whichever comes first . FURTHER RESOLVED : that each municipality ' s share will continue to be determined by the ratio of a three year fire and related service call basis that will be reviewed annually . Mr . Hogan Aye Mr . Reitz Aye Mr . Curtis Aye Mrs . Stover Aye Mr . Weatherby Aye Adopted . Fire Inspector Mr . Hogan said there was a joint meeting with the Village . The ✓ illage worked out a deal with Doug Austic to take over all the responsibility in the Village for Building / Zoning / Fire Inspector . Talked with Alex and he said that was fine with him . We also ' Y Town of Ulysses 13 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 d iscussed having Doug as a back - up in the Town for Alex . The ✓ illage agreed . We need to talk about a Fire Inspector for the Town . . . Mr . Reitz said Doug is still our Fire Inspector . . . Mr . Hogan said correct , but Doug would like to just do everything for the Village and Alex could pick up everything for the Town . Mr . Hogan said he spoke with Alex and he would be willing to take over the responsibility of the Fire Inspector if the Board will add the budgeted amount for Fire Inspector to his salary ( what is left for the remainder of this year ) . He said he doesn ' t want to keep a log book for each inspection for an hourly rate for every inspection he makes . . . so he said he would be willing to consider it under those conditions . If we are not amenable with this arrangement , he said he wouldn ' t be interested in the job . Mr . Curtis said there are a lot of places where it ' s part of the job- of code enforcer ; to be fire inspector . I wouldn ' t mind amending our local law to eliminate fire inspections from our local ordinance and rely on the State requirements . Know where I work we do them when we have time on our hands . Mr . Hogan said he feels Alex is capable of doing the job , don ' t think the amount of - money is unreasonable to finish out the year . I would expect some reports from him as to the number of inspections he has done and I mentioned that to him and he said , Yes he would give us reports on a monthly basis . Mr . Curtis said I have mentioned to Alex in the past , the ratio between the cost of the code enforcement here and the fees , seems like we have a fairly high cost . Don ' t know if it ' s the level of activity or whatever . If the level of your activity is down it gives - you an opportunity to do these things . Personally seems to me this should simply be rolled back into code enforcement and not be a separate job . Mr . Reitz said I think that ' s what we are saying . Mr . Hogan asked do you want to adjust the salary accordingly ? Mr . Curtis said , No . Guess my feeling is that the nature of fire inspector , it gives you something to do . . . you have to be around anyway ; . . if you don ' t have - anything else , then you have a day to do fire inspections . Mr . Hogan said Alex said without the additional money he didn ' t want to do fire inspections . Right now it ' s a separate job . Mr . Curtis said - we can make it part of the job description . Mr . Hogan suggested having an executive session with Alex to discuss this situation . Everyone agreed . - REPORTS Town- Clerk - Mrs . Georgia reported $ 1 , 101 . 00 collected of which $ 892 ' . 95 was turned over to the Supervisor along with the monthly report . Retyping and - updating the Zoning Ordinance has been completed . Has been proofed ; Development Districts have been added . Met with Jeannie Barrett and reviewed the zoning map that will be reproduced for our Zoning Ordinance . Few changes will be made . . . use numbers instead of colors . Tax Collector - Mrs . Georgia reported $ 1 , 155 , 266 . 45 to date . P rinted out 241 second notices are printed out and will be mailed in a couple of days . Turned over $ 436 . 60 in penalties to the S upervisor along with the report . • 4 Town . of Ulysses 14 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 H ighway Superintendent - Mr . Meeker reported we received 31 " of snow during the blizzard . . . according to the National Weather B ureau . Federal and State governments have sent out forms for possible reimbursement , possibly up to 75 % . Interested in getting newer V plow . No word on the street lighting on Seneca Road . Got a budget proposal for highway improvement program . . . Town will receive a 14 . 81 % increase for Chips if the budget is passed . Mr . Hogan said the Highway Crew did an outstanding job during the blizzard . Zoning / Building - Mrs . Georgia read Mr . Rachun ' s report . Total permits for March , five . Board Members - Mr . Reitz said that at the Village Board Meeting o ne of the Trustees indicated he had heard that the RT 96 detour and closure might be delayed . Mr . Reitz called DOT and they said as far as they know it is still on go for May 1st . Mr . Hogan said he had received a call about the Town declaring a state of emergency so that residents could get federal disaster money down at the lake to repair damages to cottages or docks . It ' s up to the State to declare the state of emergency . Mrs . Stover reported that businesses will be able to have a tub for recycling / just what you would recycle at home . Office paper ; w hite with black ink ; no envelopes / must be taken to recycling center . Having extra tubs at recycling center was discouraged . Also , there is a donation of a tree , one for the Village and one for the Town . Have to decide where it goes . Mr . Hogan suggested w e get a flowering tree and have it put on the Fair Grounds as a thank you . If the Fair Board accepts this , all agreed it would be a good place . Mr . Curtis said Access TV , meeting on June 2nd to discuss franchises , answer questions we may have . Mrs . Georgia said Mr . Curtis had mentioned vacancies . . . have advertised in the Free Press about vacancies for TC EOC , Rep . to ACC , Rep . for TC Local Assessment Review and one for UYU Commission . Was advertised 3 / 29 and posted in Town Hall . No responses . Mr . Curtis volunteered to sit in on the ACC Commission . Mr . Reitz said we also have two openings on Assessment Review B oard ; that will be happening in May . It has been proposed that this be a County - wide review board but will not happen this year . So for this year we need to have two people . Mrs . Stover has found that she can ' t continue to be on the Review Board . . . the local Board usually makes recommendations to the County ; if there is someone new who hasn ' t been trained , not fair to people who come to present their grievance . Mr . Hogan suggested talking to Mrs . Duddleston to see if she will do it again this year . Mrs . S tover said she would be willing to sit in and direct people . The Review will be held the middle of May , Mrs . Georgia needs to notify the County who will be on the Review Board . Mrs . Stover said there are various forms , etc . that need to be addressed . Mr . Hogan said that Mr . Curtis mentioned that the Board needs to do SEQR on the American Legion . . . should be done before the PUD is approved . Mr . Curtis said I think all we have to do is the front page of the short form . Think we have to rescind the vote , do the SEQR and vote again . That would be my recommendation . Mr . H ogan said he wasn ' t sure if Alex had done this or not ( tried to 4 4 6 • Town of Ulysses 15 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 call Alex with no response ) . Mr . Curtis moved to rescind the vote on the American Legion PUD on the basis of a procedural flaw . Seconded by Mr . Weatherby . Mr . Hogan said you are saying that procedurally we should not have approved the PUD without having the necessary SEQR . Mr . Curtis said I think the State requires that we - go through this , we ' ve been thinking about this thing so darn long that most people have - already gone through it in their minds all the environmental concerns, but it ' s a State requirement that we do this and probably a good idea to make sure we didn ' t overlook something . - Mr . Reitz asked why Mr . Curtis says it ' s a State requirement ? Mr . Curtis said for rezoning . It ' s not a Type I and it ' s an unlisted action. I ' m assuming it ' s unlisted and that ' s one of the questions we have to answer , but I can' t think of anything that makes - it a Type I action . Mr . Reitz agreed it ' s not a Type I . . . it ' s an unlisted action . Mr . Curtis said you think it may not require one there Tom ? Mr . Reitz said it probably wouldn ' t h urt for us to do it . - - Mrs . Stover said she doesn ' t feel confident enough to take action . Mr . Hogan said he feels the same way . I rely on Alex . Mr . Curtis said he does a fair amount of them . Mr . Hogan said , Yeah , - you ' re familiar with it . Mr . Curtis said it is clear to him that one is required here ; can ' t get in trouble for doing one that ' s not required . . . before you commit the Town to a course of action , at • sometime before that time you have to do it . H earing no further discussion , a roll call vote was taken . Mr . Weatherby Aye Mr . Curtis Aye Mrs . Stover Aye Mr . Reitz Aye Mr . Hogan Aye Approved . - Mr . Hogan said the vote is rescinded . Now Ben , you are saying as far as • you are concerned this is an unlisted action . The Board proceeded with : P ART II ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT ( To be completed by Agency ) as follows : A . DOES ACTION EXCEED ANY TYPE I THRESHOLD IN 6 NYCRR , PART 617 . 12 ? Answer checked - NO . B . WILL ACTION RECEIVE COORDINATED REVIEW AS PROVIDED FOR U NLISTED ACTIONS IN 6 NYCRR , PART 617 . 6 ? If NO , a negative declaration may be superseded by another involved agency . Answer checked - - NO . C . COULD ACTION RESULT IN ANY ADVERSE EFFECTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE FOLLOWING : ( Answers may be handwritten , if legible ) Cl . Existing air quality , surface or groundwater quality or q uantity , noise levels , existing traffic patterns , solid waste production or disposal , potential for erosion , drainage or flooding problems ? E plain briefly : Answer given - YEStinal site plan to be approved to minimize d rainage / noise levels / surface groundwater / potential erosion , flooding problems . - - - Mr . Curtis said on the negative declaration , if Alex will type up . 1., Town of Ulysses 16 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 tomorrow Marsha , that the mitigation for that is that the plan w ill be reviewed to minimize the effects noted above . It could be ground and surface water , traffic patterns , potential for e rosion , putting in drainage . C2 . Aesthetic , agricultural , archaeological , historic , or o ther natural or cultural resources ; or community or neighborhood character ? Explain briefly : Answer given - YES , adverse impact on neighborhood character / steps Legion has taken in curtailing h ours ; landscaping ; mitigated by thirteen steps of PUD from American Legion to the greatest extent possible . C3 . Vegetation or fauna , fish , shellfish or wildlife species , significant habitats , or threatened or endangered species ? Explain briefly : Answer given - NO . C4 . A community ' s existing plans or goals as officially adopted , or a change in use or intensity of use of land or other n atural resources ? Explain briefly : Answer given - NO , rezoning is consistent with Town Zoning Laws . C5 . Growth , subsequent development , or related activities likely to be induced by the proposed action ? Explain briefly : Answer given - NO , this action doesn ' t commit Town to further development . C6 . Long term , short term , cumulative , or other effects not identified in C1 - 05 ? Explain briefly : Answer given - NONE . C7 . Other impacts ( including changes in use of either q uantity or type of energy ) ? Explain briefly : Answer given - N ONE . D . IS THERE , OR IS THERE LIKELY TO BE , CONTROVERSY RELATED TO POTENTIAL ADVERSE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS ? Answer given - YES ; immediate neighbors concerned about direct impact ; mitigated by conditions agreed to . PART III - DETERMINATION OF SIGNIFICANCE ( To be completed by Agency ) Mr . Curtis moved that the second box be checked , indicating that the proposed action will not result in any significant adverse environmental impact , etc . , seconded by Mr . Reitz . Mr . Weatherby Aye Mr . Curtis Aye Mrs . Stover Aye Mr . Reitz Aye Mr . Hogan Nay Approved . B ox Checked which states : Check this box if you have determined , based on the information and analysis above and any supporting documentation , that the proposed action WILL NOT result in any significant adverse environmental impacts AND provide on attachments as necessary , the reasons supporting this d etermination . Mr . Hogan stated that now we have officially completed the SEQR we now need to vote on the PUD application by the American L egion . Mr . Reitz moved to approve the PUD request by the American Legion , subject to their agreement as stated , seconded by Mr . Curtis . . ir. Town of Ulysses 17 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 RESOLVED : that the Town Board of the Town of Ulysses approve the request of Arthur E . Bouton American Legion , Post 770 for a Planned D evelopment District but only under the following specific conditions : 1 ) Six foot evergreens shall be planted and maintained around the entire perimeter of the property , wherever there is not going to be larger trees planted as indicated on the Site P lan . These evergreens will be planted in two ✓ ows , 10 ft . apart , 20 ft . apart in each row , staggered . 2 ) A vegetative buffer which shall achieve a h eight of 15 ft . within three years of July 7 , 1992 shall be established on the east side o f the property , from the south property line , along the west line of the pond and then around and along the north line of the pond , continuing to the highway right of way . 3 ) The rest of landscaping shall be as per S ite Plan . 4 ) Parking shall be as proposed on Site P lan . Well maintained , no asphalt or enlargement unless further application is made and approved . 5 ) Private club ( lounge and bar ) - only members and guests served . Not open to the public . 6 ) Hours of Operation - In consideration of the approval of this PUD , hours for the L ounge and Bar shall be the posted hours as follows : Monday - Thursday 4 : 00 - 11 : 00 p . m . ; Friday 4 : 00 - 1 : 00 a . m . ; Saturday noon - 1 : 00 a . m . ; Sunday noon - 8 : 00 p . m . 7 ) Outdoor Legion activities shall cease or must move inside the Legion Building by no later than 30 minutes after local sunset of d ay in question . There shall be no outside artificial lighting other than flagpole , cannon , sign and 12 eight foot light poles in parking lot . Flagpole only will be lit at all times . The other lights shall be extinguished when Legion not in operation . 8 ) Public activities shall end at 10 : 30 p . m . Sunday through Thursday , Friday and Saturday n ights at 12 : 00 midnight . 9 ) Activities are approved as per list of activities submitted , which list is attached h ereto and made part hereof . 10 ) All landscaping shown on Site Plan and that additionally provided for herein shall be in place before Certificate of Occupancy shall be issued by the Town Zoning / Code Enforcement Officer . Town of Ulysses 18 Regular Town Board Meeting April 13 , 1993 11 ) The Certificate of Occupancy must be issued within five years of July 7 , 1992 . 12 ) If variations of any of these conditions are made by the Town Board making any of them less stringent , a joint meeting with the Planning Board shall be held to seek Planning Board concurrence or vote by Town Board shall be made as if the Planning Board had disapproved this PUD application . 13 ) The Site Plan will be reviewed and approved by the Town Board before a building permit is issued . Mr . Hogan asked for a roll call vote . Mr . Weatherby Aye Mr . Curtis Aye Mrs . Stover Aye Mr . Reitz Aye Mr . Hogan Nay Adopted . CORRESPONDENCE Mr . Hogan reviewed the correspondence received as follows : minutes from TC EOC , TC Dept . of Planning , WILD in NY , Bulletin Board , SPCA report , Local Records , TC Board of Representatives / sales tax with City , Luster / State Aid , TC Youth / Youth Service Award , NYS Retirement , NYSEG , Village from D . Austic to A . Rachun , LaBerge , Cornell Cooperative Extension , John Delaney , reports from Justice Dept . / Rector 54 + cases / Zimmerman 9 cases , Village Police , TC Advocacy Board , Video tapes available from the State . Hearing no further business , Mr . Reitz moved to adjourn , seconded by Mrs . Stover and Mr . Curtis . Unanimously approved the meeting adjourned at 10 : 30pm . Respectfully submitted , Marsha L . Georgia Town Clerk pm