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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB Minutes 1989-10-23 TOWN OF ITHACA SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING October 23 , 1989 At a Special Meeting of the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca , Tompkins County , New York , held at the Town Hall , 126 East Seneca Street , Ithaca , New York , on the 23rd day of October , 1989 , there were PRESENT : Noel Desch Supervisor Henry McPea�c� , Councilman Shirley Raffensperger , Councilwoman Robert Bartholf , Councilman Patricia Leary , Councilwoman David Klein , Councilman John Whitcomb , Councilman ALSO PRESENT : John Barney , Town Attorney Andrew Frost , Building Inspector/ Zoning Officer Susan Beeners , Town Planner Eva Hoffmann , 4 Sugarbush Lane Muawia Barazangi , 120 Simsburg Drive PLEDGE OF' ALLEGIANCE The Supervisor led the assemblage in the Pledge of Allegiance . 1990 BUDGET DISCUSSIONS Councilwoman Raffensperger stated that in the Supervisor ' s Budget message he referenced that the Planning Technician position request has been cut back to a July 1st start . She stated that she would like to have the Board discuss and she would like to propose that that position be a year long position . She stated that she had an approximation only of what that would be , an additional $ 9 , 000 , as she understood it in salary and probably about $ 2 , 500 for fringes . Supervisor Desch replied , your interest is in the General Fund part of the budget ? Councilwoman Raffensperger replied , that is correct . Councilwoman Leary asked if it was true that in the Part-town under the planning appropriations that the money includes the water improvement study? Supervisor Desch asked , are you talking about 189 or 190 ? The Lozier ' s study for West Hill was paid for this year and was charged to the planning item in the budget . Councilwoman Leary replied , shouldn ' t it have come out of the water fund? Supervisor Desch replied no , because it was a long range study . There w&E; no way it was meant to be a capital improvement and that was the way it was recommended from in the beginning . Town Board Minutes 2 October 23 , 1989 Councilman Whitcomb stated that he was concerned about the amount of money that has been appropriated for the consultant/planner . Councilman Klein stated that he had some questions about the $ 20 , 000 for the GIS and some questions on the revenue sides of the Part-town budget , Supervisor Desch remarked , let me give you one correction , on page 5 under Superintendent of Highways , Personal Services , where it says $ 48 , 600 that is a typo and should be $ 38 , 600 . Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked , you said this included the clerical help . Supervisor Desch replied , yes . He went on to say that also , on the Highway Budget which would be permanent improvements on page 12 , the figure of $ 163 , 000 . 00 should be $ 183 , 000 . 00 , We had a $ 20 , 000 contingency fund that we had set up but Audit and Control says there is no way you can set up a contingency in the Highway Fund which makes about as zero sense as anything so that $ 20 , 000 which would probably be used for permanent improvements anyway should go back into permanent improvements , Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked , on that same page , on the Park Lane total for 1988 , $ 24 , 839 . 78 , was that the total that has been expended for that project ? She stated that she had checked on what had been spent this year but wondered if any money had been spent on previous years ? Supervisor Desch replied , no . He stated that he was quite sure that quite a bit of the $ 24 , 839 . 78 , without looking it up , was related to the drainage that was done in conjunction with the County . Councilwoman Raffensperger replied , that is not to be reimbursed in anyway by the developers in that area ? Supervisor Desch replied , no . He went on to say the Board members should go back to the Part-town section on page 9 and what Councilwoman Raffensperger would like to do is , under personal services , is add , he thought it was $ 10 , 000 plus fringes which would make it about $ 13 , 000 . Councilwartan Raffensperger replied that the figure she had was $9 , 000 for salary , $ 18 , 000 for a year and then plus the fringes . Supervisor Desch remarked that in going through the experience of hiring a new Engineering Technician that the Board should figure on $ 10 , 000 . If we hire someone with out experience we can pay a lower figure but. he felt it should be $ 21 , 000 plus fringes . CouncllwaTtan Raffensperger replied , on the philosophy that you ought to be able to find it some place if you are going to put it in , as she sees it there are two choices , She stated that she saw several revenue figures that seemed to be somewhat under estimated that could be increased or because she did understand that the people who went to the Catskills discovered as she did at the Association of Towns meeting that the Town could charge developers some rather substantial fees for the examination of their plans . We could take it from the year end balances , which by the way she also went back and researched and the ones that are estimated at the end of a year exceeded by substantial amount on January 1st of the next year . So she did not see this as being particularly difficult and a much simpler way of changing a portion of the budget . Town Board Minutes 3 October 23 , 1989 Supervisor- Desch replied that there certainly wasn ' t any problem . Under planning fees it shows $ 4 , 000 and there certainly wasn ' t any problem that $ 11 , 000 can be found even without any revenue changes . He went on to say that the only other thing he brought up when the Tentative Budget was presented , and it relates to Councilman Klein ' s question , and that is the GIS Study and that he included $ 20 , 000 the full amount and it was very unlikely that that will all be accomplished in one year , so that is another source . He stated that he did not know if Councilman Klein had something specific that he wanted to use that money for or whatever . Councilman Klein stated that was he was concerned with was to identify Exactly what it is we are getting involved with and are we doing something for the County . In other words , should the County be participating in that , rather than our funding it ? Supervisor Desch replied , that ' s absolutely right . That is the plan and the Town Planner can speak on this . A specific proposal will have to cow back , in any event before any commitment is made . He asked the Board how they felt about the need to budget for $20 , 000 ? What is the practical likely time frame for that to cane together ? Assistant Planner George Frantz replied , the $ 20 , 950 that we are proposing is based on his discussion with Jim Scaly who is coordinating the GIS development at the County and it is essentially that he estimates that $ 12 , 500 would pay for the cost of the County essentially digitizing the Town of Ithaca and incorporating it into their map graphics GIS System which they are now putting together . They are right now digitizing the Fall Creek valley , a fairly large section of the County under a grant from the State . Our idea was that we could piggy back onto that program and have the Town of Ithaca done . Portions of the Town of Ithaca within the Fall Creek Watershed are going to be done anyway , however , it is a relatively tiny portion , essentially the Northeast corner of the Town . Jim believes that given his time frame , he is going to have about a six months window beginning in January where he is going to have the equipment available and he could then add the necessary staff to do the Town of Ithaca between January and June . Town Planner Susan Beeners added , it would be of benefit to the County though and benefit to the City also . We have been talking to the City about participating in this as well which would then reduce the cost . Assistant Planner Frantz replied that unfortunately it does not appear that the City is going to go ahead at this point . We haven ' t heard from the City planning staff in several weeks . They have certainly been approached about this joint City/County/Town project but it doesn ' t seem like they have an awful lot of interest in going ahead with it . Councilman Klein asked if the other Towns in the County were paying the County to do the mapping or are we the only ones ? Supervisor Desch replied that so far we are the primary one of interest so they probably won ' t be digitizing the other Towns . Councilman Klein asked what the Town would be getting out of it? Assistant Planner Frantz replied , we get out of it for essentially paying they full cost of digitizing the Town , by the end of next year he felt we would have an up and running GIS system for the Town of Ithaca and . we would essentially be a turn key project . Town Board. Minutes 4 October 23 , 1989 Councilman. Klein replied then we would have computerized mapping basically ? Then what ? Assistant Planner Frantz replied , essentially what we would have on the computerized data base we would have land use in the Town , we would have all the tax map parcels digitized and on the computer base so that we could call up information , soil slopes , etc . , by tax parcel. or area of the Town . An important aspect is the 1990 census data will be available for the first time in a form that can be simply incorporated into this GIS system . The County is already making plans to do that . We could have a very good and fairly inexpensive geographic system for the Town . Eventually he felt the County would get around to doing the Town of Ithaca , they do intend to do the entire County . The problem is we are not a high priority area and j_t could be two , three or four years , depending on their sources of funding before they would get to the Town of Ithaca . Councilman Klein replied , some of this information we have anyway it ' s just not computerized . Mr . Frantz replied , right . Another thing which may bring down the cost of this is we have been digitizing portions of the Town using our Autocad drafting software upstairs and he thought that County would be able to take those tax parcels maps , in the small section of the Town that has been done , and be able to simply incorporate them into their GIS system without having to go back and digitizing them again . Councilman McPeak asked , is this software unique to our system or is it readily available ? Mr . Frantz replied , they are using a commercial software , available nationally . Councilwoman Raffensperger stated that she would like to go back to the question of the use of the planning money under the planning study line for the water study . She went on to say that it was not her recollection that that was originally supposed to be part of what would come out of that line and she was aware that it has been taken out , and she was also aware that throughout the year there has been a. lot of interest in small amount of money coming out of that planning study line , all of which we have been informed of , and yet some how or another $ 8 , 500 came out of there and we didn ' t seem to be notified of that . She stated that she would like to question the appropriateness of it , she stated that she had looked at the study again and did not think there was five cents worth of planning in it and she felt it was inappropriate to have charged it to the planning study instead of to the water fund . Supervisor Desch replied , that was your decision . Councilwoman Raffensperger replied , it was a decision that was not an informed one because we were not notified that that was being done . Supervisor Desch replied , that was intent and decision of the Board right from the start . Councilwrman Raffensperger replied that she did not see any indication that that was the case . Supervisor Desch replied , you need to look further . He felt that in terms of a planning study it ' s totally a planning study otherwise it wouldn ' t have been done . Town Board Minutes 5 October 23 , 1989 Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked , the consultant ' s report that we just received says it is not a planning study , that it has no relation to whatever comprehensive planning we have in the Town and it is not related to it . The only projections they made of a planning type was what would happen if we developed everything to the nth degree which she stated was not exactly her definition of planning . Supervisor Desch replied that he was not going to argue concepts of planning but the consultants report , that is Stewart Brown ' s report , also talks about capital improvement programs . A critical element of that whole process so you can ' t have one without the other . Councilwoman Raffensperger stated that she would then like to I nquire as to why no portion of it was charged to the water budget? Supervisor Desch replied , because there was no ensuing capital project . The Stearns & Wheler report relating to Inlet Valley was clearly in anticipation of a specific capital improvement project that would follow along immediately and it has . There is nothing unusual or complicated about that . It is a very clear distinction . That ' s a separate issue , can we focus on the changes that you want to make . Councilman Whitcomb remarked , let ' s focus on that line of 406 , Planning Study . Do we have any feeling as to what the actual 1989 expenditure will be ? Supervisor Desch replied , about $ 20 , 000 . Councilman Whitcomb remarked , and that includes the $ 8 , 500 for the study . Councilman Klein remarked , plus Stewart Brown ' s $ 10 , 000 . Councilman Whitcomb asked if he had been paid? Supervisor Desch replied , by the end of the year he will have been paid . Councilwoman Raffensperger added , and then there were several small expenditures for the interns . Town Planner Beeners remarked that her estimates were for the secretary , some reprographics . Taking the secretary and sane reprographics it comes to about $ 2 , 600 that was spent . After taking out the $ 12 , 000 for the Lozier ' s report you would have , total expenditure would be around $ 21 , 000 to $ 22 , 000 . About $ 25 , 000 would be left . Councilman Whitcomb replied , for the 1990 budget how did we arrive at the $ 32 , 750 expenditure in that ? Supervisor Desch replied , that listed all the items that the Town Planner had in her budget . It allocated $ 10 , 000 for the continued consultant study , it allocated the $ 20 , 000 for the GIS and then there was a couple other small pieces in there . Councilman Whitcomb continued , let ' s suppose that Stewart Brown were retained to do part two of the comprehensive planning study , do you think $ 10 , 000 is a reasonable figure then for his efforts for 1990 ? Town Planner Beeners replied that it was hard for her to define that when she did not know what the composition of staffing would Town Board Minutes 6 October 23 , 1989 be , how much time we would really have . We have a number of events , having a technician on board certainly helps matters , but being unsure what the Town Engineer position is going to be like puts another wrinkle in . She stated that she would think that if there can definitely be some productivity out of our office and a technician, on board full time perhaps we can make it by with $ 10 , 000 . But usually its about $ 30 , 000 for a comprehensive plan update , for a master plan and current zoning ordinance revisions . That ' s one of the really few figures she could go on as far as quoting . Councilman Whitcomb asked if realistically can that all be accomplished in 1990 ? Let ' s suppose we did go full speed ahead on revisions to the zoning ordinance and the comprehensive plan , one year? Councilman Klein replied that Stewart Brown had told him after their last meeting that you are probably looking at , if we bought everything he was talking about , a two to five year time frame . Two years would be the most optimistic . Supervisor Desch remarked that the feeling he has is that you have the flexibility with this allocation because the way things work this GIS information study will not be done in one year so you have some flexibility in funding if you want it . Have the consultant do more and not take away from that process . There is going to need to be a fair amount of negotiations with the County on just what we are going -to be getting . Councilman Whitcomb asked , so there is enough room in there to do whatever we might want to do in 1990 ? Town Planner Beeners replied , that she guessed it looked to her like there was a little bit of room , maybe $ 5 , 000 worth of room It looked to her like the GIS figure could not really be reduced by anymore than five . She stated that she had gone to the conference and was quite intrigued by the increased fee system especially where it can be charged , used to get an independent consultant in on behalf of the Town to review the project or just to reimburse existing staff expenses and she hoped the Town could look into seeing whether an additional $ 1 , 000 or $ 2 , 000 charge for review fee per large subdivision is not an unreasonable fee to go with . Councilman Whitcomb remarked that he just wouldn ' t want to see the Town , nine months into the fiscal year have to stop our planning because we ran out of money . Supervisor Desch replied that the budget could always be modified . Councilman Klein remarked , this $ 32 , 750 that is in there is basically the $ 20 , 000 for GIS and $ 10 , 000 for the consultant , right ? Supervisor Desch replied , right . Councilman Klein replied , it doesn ' t seem to be enough . We ought to reduce the commitment to the GIS and increase , he thought the consultant would be closer to $ 15 , 000 or $ 20 , 000 for the year . We really have to formulate what level . He talks about a lot of staff interaction if the Town were going to continue with the study , some of that might be taken up by the technician as least in terms of helping out. to some extent . Supervisor Desch asked , are you suggesting that the total change or just the allocation within the total ? Town Board Minutes 7 October 23 , 1989 Councilman Klein replied , maybe a little bit of both . Supervisor Desch asked Councilman Klein if he had a number in mind? Councilman Klein replied , maybe an additional five or something like that . Councilman Raffensperger asked if she were right to that as a budget item , even though we understand that the GIS is proposed and she was certainly supportive of it , but if it does not turn out to cost that mach that is not a definite commitment that you have to spend that: sum on the GIS , that is within a line and there is flexibility there . Supervisor Desch replied , zero commitment . You are not committing anything , you are just budgeting for it . Councilman Klein remarked , just a comment on the fees . It ' s amazing that the zoning and planning budget is about $ 240 , 000 and the fees that they generate is about $ 42 , 000 . we have a big gap to close there . Councilwoman Leary remarked , so none of the budget for the water study would come out of the water line at all ? Supervisor Desch replied , that is an 189 expenditure . Councilwoman Leary asked if it was continued into 1990 ? Supervisor Desch replied , no . Whatever work is being involved with the Inlet 'Valley will be a capital project once that is set up so that is totally separate . Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked , the only reason it is an appropriate discussion on the ' 90 budget is , if the money had been taken from the water fund there would have been that additional amount of money which would have gone into the year end balance . It would have come out of the water fund and changed that and would have then changed what the year end balance would have been . The Supervisor asked if there were any other questions on the appropriations side ? He then noted that on the revenue side Councilman Klein had some questions . Supervisor Desch then went on to say that: he would suggest that the additions that the Board made in the appropriations be identified by increasing the appropriations fund balance . You can increase the amount in planning fees if you want to , the only question is the uncertainty of knowing what it is we are going to be expecting in the way of subdivisions to review . If you want to increase that , double it to $ 8 , 000 if you want , but it is a little risky forecasting what it is we are going to be reviewing , but if you put it in appropriated fund balance then you are covered . Councilwomen Raffensperger added that she did not think the Town had any experience in how those fees were going to work and if they come in they can go into the fund balances . Town Attorney Barney remarked , the Board would have to pass a local law before assessing fees . Councilman Klein remarked that he had a question for Andy Frost or Susan Beeners . In terms of the Town Building Permits fees , how does the Town fees , he noted that they were increased recently , compare with the City of Ithaca . Town Board. Minutes 8 October 23 , 1989 Building Inspector/ Zoning Officer Andrew Frost replied , the City of Ithaca ' s , he believed , goes on a square footage value . So if you build 100 square foot you pay "X " amount of dollars . Somewhere along the line he remembered a building permit for Cornell in the City costing $ 42 , 000 . We are based on the value of the improvement . Going anywhere from $ 15 . 00 for something that is under $ 10 , 000 to $ 3 , 000 for the upper end . Councilman Klein remarked that permit fees could be increased a lot more quickly than planning fees , he asked if this was correct? Supervisor Desch replied , well maybe . The only thing you have to keep in mind is what the economy is going to do in terms of business . Mr . Frost remarked that there was no real significant uprising when we raised our fee . We were trying to be somewhat conscious of the lower end ,mall project where a person pays $ 200 for a $500 project of a deck or something . Councilman Klein asked if it would be appropriate to ask the staff to give the Board scene kind of comparative numbers for say the City . He stated that he was sure the Town staff did every bit as much work as the City does and certainly in terms of inspections and follow through services and he would seem to think that the Town ' s fees could be very close to the City ' s but there was no reason to have them substantially lower . Supervisor Desch suggested the City of Ithaca and the Village of Lansing for a comparison . Mr . Frost added that the fees for going to the Planning Board and ZBA could be raised as the Town pays a pretty penny just for advertising . Councilwoman Raffensperger added that she would still like to see the other fee type pursued because we have people coming in here with proposals which go through a lot of processes and sometimes don ' t end up paying any fee on a building permit and yet we have expended a great deal of staff time on it so she did not want to abandon the other avenue . Mr . Frost remarked that another source could be a fee for temporary certificates of occupancy . Councilman McPeak asked if the TV franchise tax was based upon gross income or just a number ? Supervisor Desch replied , 2 % of their gross revenues . Councilman McPeak replied , that is a number that should increase . Their gross revenues are going up . Supervisor Desch replied , it has and it will even more . This is probably a conservative number . He then interrupted the budget discussion for a person wishing to be heard . PERSONS TO BE HEARD Muawia BarELzangi , 120 Simsbury Drive stated that the reason he came to the meeting was because the Board was discussing the budget and in talking to the Highway Superintendent he was told it would require money to pick up leaves and brush on frequent intervals . He went on to say that he was not the only one annoyed about this 0 ssue , there were a lot of his neighbors annoyed also . He stated Town Board. Minutes 9 October 23 , 1989 that he had spent a lot of time on the telephone talking to Tompkins County , the solid waste people as well as Collins . Now Collins is now becoming very strict , his people are opening the garbage bags and if there are leaves or twigs they are not taking the bags . Now you have announced you have moved the planned pick up of leaves and limbs to November 13th , and only once . It has become worse since the storm . We have leaves and branches piled up on the streets . He stated that he paid somebody $ 35 to cane and pick them up but sane other people haven ' t done that . They will be going down into the ditch and creating more problems for you in the future . It has to be done , the County doesn ' t want to discuss it they say go back to your Town . Mr . Barazangi went on to say that he came to the Town and it was discussed very briefly and the Board decided that November 13th was it , but it ain ' t . It isn ' t enough and Collins doesn ' t want to do anything about it . As you know he raised his prices to $ 250 per year , $ 120 of it is tipping fee . Somebody should check to see if he is overcharging . But aside from this , the Town of Ithaca , as does Lansing or Cayuga Heights , must give that service by more frequently picking up that stuff . Once every three weeks maybe , but you can ' t do it only once , you are creating more problems . There is no alternative . The same thing in the Spring , it ' s going to cane back to us again . He stated that what he proposed was that once every two weeks go around and pick up those leaves and branches once every two weeks . Just to pick one date is quite unreasonable . Supervisor Desch replied , it is difficult he realized but the problem was the Town would have to add people . Mr . Baranzangi replied that he realized that and that sane people had also given him a lecture on making a composting pile but that simply wasn ' t going to work . Give me an alternative even if it was going to oast him a few dollars , fine but give him an alternative and he felt. it was the responsibility of the Town of Ithaca to plan for what can be done with this stuff . You can ' t just leave it and say you will pick it up once a year , it ' s very unrealistic . Supervisor Desch remarked you are quite right , the whole thing that we are doing is essentially an experimental program . We have had absolutely no experience in doing it and we have no idea how well it is going to work . The problem is with the manpower and not only adding additional people but it is breaking into the schedule that he has to complete the work that he is already committed to do . Mr . Baranzangi replied that he appreciated the Highway Superintendent ' s problem but that is why it may take another two and a half people to help with the machine to pick up this material . But you can ' t just ignore it , please do not ignore it . Councilwoman Raffensperger asked if anyone had talked to Collins about whether or not he would pick up bagged leaves and take them to the County site ? Mr . Baranzangi replied that he had talked to Mr . Collins and he said he was thinking about it because he didn ' t like the procedure . He said he was willing but people will have to separate it from regular garbage . He again stated that a lot of people had lectured him on starting a compost pile but he was not going to do it . Etna Hoffmann , 4 Sugarbush Lane stated that she had not planned to speak on this issue but since it has been brought up , she stated that she would like to see some encouragement of composting because she thought it was the way to go in the future . It ' s a lot of bother and it may not be appropriate for all places in the Town but �rnid®mm7�tNR Town Board. Minutes 10 October 23 , 1989 there are many places in the Town where people have big enough yards where they could certainly do this . And also if you do have a service to pick up peoples leaves , she stated that she would hope that the Town did not have it brought to the regular dump but that you put it into one of these gigantic composting piles . Supervisor Desch replied that the plan was that the Town would do the composting . Mr . Baranzangi remarked that people might be willing to take their leaves some place if you designate a place , if that ' s a choice , but meanwhile tell us what to do with it . Councilwoman Raffensperger replied , is that a possibility that people would be willing to take the big bags of leaves , for example , to our highway facility or an available place ? Mr . Baranzangi replied that personally he was willing but he was not sure about other people . It may not be practical for other people . Councilman McPeak asked if Collins paid a franchise tax or anything for operating a garbage pick up? Supervisor Desch replied no , it is a private unregulated service . CONTINUED BUDGET DISCUSSION Councilwomen Leary remarked potentially a budget item , if we tried a part time person for the highway department . Supervisor Desch replied that John Ozolins had a couple of part time people built into his budget for other purposes but he wouldn ' t want to try to suggest any kind of numbers at todays meeting that should be reflective of just leaf and brush pick up . Councilman Klein stated that he had a few general questions , on page 6 there is an appropriation for the Pleasant Grove Walkway . Supervisor Desch replied , that is the second payment for that . The agreement with Cayuga Heights was that if there was to be a walkway on Pleasant Grove that the Town would participate in then it would have to be a Town wide charge , that way the people who lived in village would end up paying for 300 of the cost and that is why it is there . The problem is is that that is an old agreement but the village has not provided the information that would allow us to pay for the cost . At one point they were saying it was going to be a bikeway and not a walkway an another time a walkway and not a bikeway so he stated that he has held off paying anything until the status of that was cleared up and also an itemized statement of monies spent . Councilman Klein went on to say , on the same page the Youth Bureau , the line item is $ 153 , 590 and the City is requesting $ 251 , 449 . Supervisor Desch replied , two things . The reason the number is lower than the 1989 figure is that in 1989 we agreed with the City to pay a one time figure of about $ 30 , 000 while the negotiations were continuing with the County on the part that the County would eventually pick up . Now the $ 153 , 590 is the City generated figure , that is the figure they have asked us to budget for . However , that is presuming that the County picks up the full cost of Youth Development. and Youth Mainstreaming services . As you know, that decision has not been totally made yet and depends on the final County budget . So , we will have to wait and see what happens at Town Board Minutes 11 October 23 , 1989 the November 1st County hearing but he expected that that number would not change very much . Councilman Klein remarked , there is miscellaneous kind of unallocated insurance which comes up a few times , what is that? Supervisor Desch replied , that is property insurance , liability insurance and it is budgeted that way because there isn ' t a specific :Mate accounting breakout for each type of insurance . Also , those numbers are a little bit soft and probably higher than they need to be . However , the problem that all of us are going to end up paying for are hurrican Hugo and the San Francisco earthquake so it would probably be unwise to reduce those numbers . Councilman Klein asked if there was a line item on the South Hill Trail , a revenue part from the State anywhere ? We have a $ 15 , 000 appropriation for it . Supervisor Desch replied , that ' s the net figure so if the grant does come through , which we expect it will , then there will be a revenue it(m that he did not include . Councilman Klein remarked , but this would be the difference ? Supervisor Desch replied , this would be the net cost . Councilman Klein replied , that ' s what a matching grant ? So you are basically planning on spending $ 30 , 0000 Supervisor Desch replied , right . For a particular years effort . Councilwcnuun Raffensperger remarked , the City was supposed to be in on that , are they? (Paying) . Supervisor Desch replied , in terms of out of pocket costs , no . Town Planner Beeners added , the part in the City is our expense unless something changes . Councilwoman Raffensperger added , at one point we discussed the City paying a share . Supervisor Desch replied that is correct because at one time it went across Hillview . Town Planner Beeners added , we might see some benefits if the City area plans , We may see scene _ an further reservation p y reintroduces y p items such as agreeing that the City like the Six Mile Creek Ranger extend his patrol and possibly development of some other trails . Councilman Klein continued , on page 1 under the revenues , obviously the very first line the "real property tax" is $ 172 , 217 , that ' s Village of Cayuga Heights correct? Supervisor Desch replied , correct . Councilman Klein continued , the fourth line , the sales tax distribution , now that ' s gone in this budget from $ 280 , 402 up to $ 411 , 570 . He stated that he knew the Supervisor had touched on this but could he restate the explanation . Supervisor Desch replied , those two numbers are relevant to each other , what you do is to take the percentage that the assessed value of the Village is to the total Town wide assessed value . And that is the portion of those two revenue sources that will be made up through taxes to people who own property in the Village . The Town Board Minutes 12 October 23 , 1989 reason for that is that the Village keeps it ' s share of the sales tax as a Village , therefore , it is not legal or appropriate for the balance to be utilized to reduce the tax rate in the Village . Councilman Klein remarked , so this is basically like the eighty-five million dollar assessment out of the two eighty or something . He went on , on that same sheet , the State Aid Per Capita . That ' s a little bit lower . Supervisor Desch replied , right . All of the State Aid numbers for practical purposes , have not changed in many years . The only one that has actually changed has been the addition of a special state aid for fire code enforcement . So that really is a flat number . We always get into an argument as to which , when you get it , you have to break it out between part town and town wide and you try to do that as straight across the board percentage as possible . That ' s why the number seems to fluctuate a bit . Councilman Klein remarked so you use that as a safe number . Is there any particular reason why it is less than last year ? Supervisor Desch replied , it ' s a safe number . It ' s clear that the State isn ' t going to increase it , they even give signals about eliminating it like they did with the County . It ' s awful late in the year if they do but you remember the decision last year was not particularly early . Councilman Klein continued the mortgage tax , is that again the mortgages generated in the Village of Cayuga Heights ? Supervisor Desch replied , no . These are mortgages generated throughout the Town that we allocate approximately on the basis of the portions that the budgets are to each other in terms of services . These generally have been very conservative or safe numbers , they have been running much higher than this but on the other hand you have to be careful you don ' t go too far . Councilman Klein continued , on page 7 again the sales tax number . He remarked that in the Supervisor ' s budget message , the Supervisor had said that sales tax numbers were forecasted to increase 8% yet this line item is larger than 8 % . Supervisor Desch replied that ' s right because we know that the actual sales tax this year is going to be higher than the budgeted number and he was using what was expected to be the actual as the number . Councilman Klein remarked , so it ' s not 8 % over the 1989 budget but 8 % over the actual . Where is that surplus figure in the budget then? Supervisor Desch replied , it goes to the fund balance but what happens is that any surplus over the budgeted numbers have to go into the part town revenue budget . To make sure there is no co-mingling into the town wide . That ' s why any surplus above the budgeted numbers will end up in the part town fund balance . Supervisor Desch went on to say that sane of the personal service items will change a bit following the Personnel Committee ' s work last week on the salaries . Councilman Klein noted , under the appropriations that you have for the part town► on page 8 , contractual expenses , is that proportioned again , line items 405 to 499 ? or are those expenses also in the town wide ? Town Board Minutes 13 October 23 , 1989 Supervisor Desch replied , the ones in the part town are related to the services that are covered in the part town . If you look over on page 4 you will see the list of shared services that are related to town wide services and on page 8 the shared services that are related to the part town services . We try to split that out so that one part of the budget is not subsidizing the other part . Some are mandated , some are discretionary . Councilwoman Raffensperger added , the amount of the non-property tax distribution and the mortgage tax is completely at the pleasure of the Town Board , as she understood it . Because we have had this discussion years ago . Supervisor Desch replied , that is correct . Back on the town wide sales tax: you could make that zero there if you wanted to and assess a -tax and put that all into part town if you wanted to , you have that discretion . The only thing you can ' t do , at this point , is use it for fire protection . Councilwoman Raffensperger asked , can we talk about that very briefly? You contacted the State at the beginning of this past year about the possibility since we have a town wide , outside of the Village , fire protection district of using sales tax revenues for that . And that was not successful this year , as she understood it . WherEt do we stand? Supervisor Desch replied , it ' s in the State Legislative Committees Marty Luster and Jim Seward filed the bill , so it ' s a matter of working itself through the cc mittee process . Councilwoman Raffensperger asked , if that were to happen , then what would happen to this $ 411 , 570 figure in the town wide . Supervisor Desch replied , you would have to decide how you wanted to distribute the sales tax . Councilwoman Raffensperger replied , but it would basically have to came from that figure . Supervisor Desch replied , well it depends . You could say that any growth in sales tax revenues could be applied to fire protection revenues or you could distribute between town wide and part town budgets in. a different proportion . Depends on what you feel the priorities are for allocating it . Councilwoman Raffensperger replied that the reason she raised the question was because in looking at the regulations a couple of years ago it would seem to say that if that were to go through then , that there would be an obligation to apply it first to the part town part of the budget and she was assuming then that the fire would indeed be part of the part town budget . Supervisor Desch replied , that is the very crazy part about the wording in that law , because it doesn ' t define what part town services really are . That ' s why when you look at the law the way it reads it looks likes it ' s legal in fact to use it for fire protection purposes since the two area are close . However , a fire protection district is not necessarily a taxing district . It ' s somewhere :in limbo between a taxing district and a benefit district and yet it- is not a benefit district because you can ' t charge tax exempt properties . The Finance Law and the Taxing Law are very gray in this area . Councilman Klein asked , on page 41 the fourth line under Town Hall , building/grounds maintenance you have $ 1 , 4009 He asked if there were any particular project in mind? He stated that he knew the Ill�ISGhw�senias�u�i. Town Board Minutes 14 October 23 , 1989 trim was pealing pretty badly on the building and he wondered if the Board shouldn ' t appropriate more money for this ? Supervisor Desch replied that he felt what needed to be done was come up with a plan for budgeting for the more major maintenance , like that. . We can come back and amend the budget when it ' s done . Supervisor Desch noted a number of other items that are not on the agenda . EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR MAPLEWOOD APARTNIEN'!'S /CORNELL GRAD STUDENT HOUSING Supervisor Desch asked the Building Inspector/ Zoning Officer Andrew Frost for his comments . Building Inspector/ Zoning Officer Andrew Frost stated that it was not that he was afraid of making decisions on his own but in the spirit of` trying to make people happy and doing the right thing we have these two properties both of which have temporary certificates of occupancy . Starting with the Chamber of Commerce first , their temporary certificate of occupancy expires October 31st . Originally it was going to expire in September pending their completing some site plan improvements which never occurred . A variety of conversations have gone on to a point now that the Chamber 'vras directed by him to submit , to the satisfaction of the Planning Department , all necessary papers for their pursuit for a modified site plan approval for that property . He stated that he did not know if the Planning Department had all of the necessary papers and it was anticipated that there would be a November appearance by the Chamber . He went on to say that his own feelings , at this point , is to give them another temporary certificate assuming that by the end of the month they get all of their papers in and they are on the agenda for the Planning Board . One concern that he had , given their history up until now, is that they may not submit every thing that is being requested of them by the end of the month . Similarly with Cornell , you have these responsible people in the community and they delay in getting things in which he personally feels is inexcusable . Town Planner Susan Beeners remarked that at quarter of twelve today we received a revised site plan , an EAF and a letter , to the Planning Board , requesting that they be put on the agenda and requesting certain site plan modifications . She stated that back in August, she had done a field check and found that a number of things were not there on the site . They are requesting to delete a significant amount of the pavement and want gravel to be placed in the service access , that a row of trees not be put in but that they put in only a couple of clumps in beds and they are showing a few additional plantings but it is pretty low budget as far as plantings are concerned . They are intending to pave , as soon as possible , and are suggesting there be timber edge curbing along the inside of the front edge of the island . No curbing on East Shore Drive . The Planner went on to say that the Planning Board would be able to hear their request , if complete enough , either on November 7th or November 21st . Supervisor Desch asked the Building Inspector/ Zoning Officer what his plan was and was he asking for direction from the Board? Mr . Frost replied that he did not have any unresolved life safety issues which to him was the bottan line . He stated that he thought he was looking for guidance from the Board in terms of the delays Town Board Minutes 15 October 23 , 1989 that the Chamber has made in fulfilling their promises or commitments . Supervisor Desch asked Mr . Frost what were the options , as he saw them . Mr . Frost replied the options are to give them a temporary certificate , say through the month of November pending their appearance before the Planning Board and receiving a modified site plan approval or not giving them a certificate of occupancy . What do we do then , order them to vacate the building and not use it or take them. to court . Once they have no certificate technically they shouldn ' t be occupying the building . Councilwoman Leary replied that she thought there was more to this than life safety issues . What she felt was that our method of enforcement is the threat of not issuing a certificate of occupancy . Supervisor Desch asked Councilwoman Leary what she would like to see happen . Councilwoman Leary replied that she would like to see no certificate of occupancy and have them be forced to comply with the stipulations that were made when their site plan was approved . We can ' t just approve site plans , put stipulations on them and then when they don ' t want to abide by what we tell them to say well that ' s okay don ' t put in the paving , the curbing or the trees . Supervisor- Desch asked if the Building Inspector was looking for a compliance schedule or what? Where do you want us to go? Are you looking for a compliance schedule or vacate by November lst? Town Attorney Barney remarked , and if they don ' t vacate do we want to go after them? He went on to say that if the discussion was going to continue along these lines then the Board should go into Executive Session to discuss a possible litigation matter . The Town Attorney stated that the discussions that he and the Building Inspector had had and there was no sense that he was ignoring these requirements and he felt this was why the Building Inspector only gave them a temporary certificate of occupancy initially because the requirements are there and they need to be met . There are no life safety problems , they can occupy the building without fear that the building will collapse on them but they will not get a permanent certificate of occupancy until they comply or they get a modification of the requirement through proper channels which in this case is the Planning Board . He went on to say that the question he had was if the Town Board said march then march they would but this costs money and in the long run what is this going to accomplish and you will have a very upset constituent . But also , by the time we get to court and get an injunction or we have the Building Inspector go after them with an enforcement matter they probably will have their work done anyway and the judge will say it is all moot and we have spent some time and effort . The question is whether you want to go that road or not and spend the Town resources . Councilman Whitcomb remarked , there is no incentive for them to complete tole work now . We could continue to issue them temporary certificates of occupancy forever . Town Attonzey Barney remarked , there are two different situations here . With the Chamber , he felt they did not want to complete the work , they want to modify the site plan and they have been slow in getting the plan in so there is no way to know if the Planning Board will approve a modified site plan . If the Planning Board Town Board Minutes 16 October 23 , 1989 doesn ' t t=hen we have a different situation and then the temporary certificate of occupancy should expire because they have had their crack at the Planning Board and the Planning Board says they want the curbing and everything that was there . You either put it in or get out of the building . That ' s a little different than what we have right now , if they put the curbing in obviously that ' s the very thing they don ' t want to do . They want not to spend the money and he did not think it was any secret that they are having budget problems in what they had hoped to raise to construct the building . They just basically don ' t have the money . It ' s a question of how hard nosed the Town wants to be and how best to accomplish what we all want to accomplish and that is the enforcement of our provisions but he did not think the Board had ever taken the position in the Town that you couldn ' t get a modification of a site plan if indeed the circumstances and etc . , warrant that . Councilwoman Leary replied , we have already extended the temporary certificate , right? Mr . Frost replied , at least twice . Councilman Bartholf remarked , they are coming before the Planning Board in November , that ' s only another month . Town Planner Beeners remarked , that the asphalt plants close . She felt what she would see coming out of the Planning Board meeting and this is not related to whether or not they do curbing at this point , but basics like finishing paving the lot . That ' s something that they would do next spring and probably some of the other related things . The striping of what is a rather tight parking lot and which does have some safety aspects , that wouldn ' t be able to occur until May . Councilman. Bartholf replied , going on Mr . Frost ' s explanation of it not being a life safety problem and he had driven past the place and it looks okay from the exterior . He knew there were shrubs and things like that that had to be put in but to have them move out because of the few minor things they have to do . . . . even if you take some of the housing projects that are done , a lot of those aren ' t completed - right up to a point of landscaping being in , the curbs and things like this . He stated that he had seen this happen . Councilman Klein remarked that he guessed that here we have to look at the Planning Board responsibilities and the Town Board responsibilities because modification of site plans is clearly a Planning Board responsibility and that issue as a Town Board he felt they could not really deal with . Then speaking to the Town Attorney he asked , or can we ? Town Attorney Barney replied , in this situation it was a Special Land Use District so the general site plan was approved by Your the Town Board so unlike a straight subdivision or a straight site plan , you nave some involvement here and he stated that he thought the Planning Board wants to hear it . If the Town Board has strong feelings about the modifications he felt the Planning Board would like to hear this . Councilman Klein replied , then to follow up on that , even if they go to the Planning Board for modifications would it then , because it is a Special Land Use District , have to come back to the Town Board? Town Attorney Barney replied , that would really depend on the nature of the site plan modifications . You approve a general site plan , the detailed site plan is usually handled by the Planning Board . If curbing was on the general site plan and on this one and Town Board Minutes 17 October 23 , 1989 now they want to take the curbing out , he guessed his reactions would be that this was not of a magnitude altering a general site plan where it would need Town Board approval . If the Town Board wants to look at that kind of thing , fine but his advise would probably be not to . Now on the other hand if they wanted to move the building , which obviously they are not going to do , fifteen or thirty feet back or some major kind of change like that then , yes you are modifying a site plan in a way that the Town Board should take a look at it . Mr . Frost remarked , there were two issues . The site plan on the map and then there was condition number four from their approval from the Planning Board that curbing on East Shore Drive . He went on to say that his initial contact with the Chamber at one point was where is that curbing coming fron it was not on the site plan , yes but it was a condition . Then there is the variety of items that are :Lacking from the site plan now . Town Planner Beeners added , this site plan happens to be almost identical to the general plan that this Board approved . She went on to say that yes she would think that the Town Board could request that a report be received . Town Supervisor Desch remarked that the only thing that troubled him with that was that the thing that he was most anxious to have done and that was to get the job done and we don ' t want to give them a reason to have a long procedure that will interfere with that . Councilwoman Raffensperger asked if somebody could discuss a compliance schedule ? Mr . Frost replied that that was something that was done anyway . Councilwoman Raffensperger asked how it might help in this particular instance to resolve the problem? Town Attorney Barney replied that he was not sure what the Board wanted complied with . The initial thing was that if they wanted to modify their site plan , we wanted them to get on the stick and get to the Plwming Board and make that application . Finally they have done this today . What the Planning Board will do with them he did not know . His own recommendation would be to extend the temporary certificate of occupancy to give them the opportunity to present their materials to the Planning Board , have the Planning Board make their determination and at the Planning Board level produce a time frame , if -the Planning Board is willing to modify the site plan and if that tu:ms out to be the decision have both the Town Planner and himself , at the Planning Board meeting , tell the Planning Board that the Town Board would like to see the time frame within which these steps are going to happen and at that point build in a compliance schedule and bring it back to the Town Board . Councilwoman Raffensperger added , whether modified or not . Town Attorney Barney replied , whether modified or not . . . . well if it is not modified his sense would be that the temporary certificate of occupancy would expire on the first of November . Then the Board can make a choice on how to proceed . Councilwmin Leary remarked that she remembered when the whole issue of the Chamber of Commerce building came up there was some opposition from the community and some of it was based on how it would look „ So she stated that she did not think this was trivial . Compliance with asthetic requirements . In the past we have authorized the Town Attorney to begin action as a way of showing Town Board Minutes 18 October 23 , 1989 the party that we meant it She asked if there was a way to recover legal costs ? Town Attorney Barney replied no , normally not in those circumstances . You recover court costs but they are never anywhere near the time and expenditure . Councilman Klein remarked , we have obviously been talking about specifics but he felt in prior discussions with Mr . Frost he would also like some guide lines in general for the issuance of temporary certificates of occupancy and what types of stipulations and enforcement powers the Town can give the Code Enforcement Officer in giving some teeth here because this kind of situation can happen many other times and there is a reluctance to be very heavy handed or go to the costly expense of going to litigation . You can really play a stalling game and he felt that by either having a fee structure for temporary certificates of occupancy or specific fines that can be triggered automatically . Is there some mechanism or policies that can be established to give a little more teeth to the enforcement of these things ? Town Attorney Barney replied , that he had difficulty with temporary certificates of occupancy because the Town does not have a provision for them in the Zoning Ordinance and he did not think there was a provision in the legislation for the Fire Enforcement Code . What needs to happen is a policy decision made either we are or we are not going to have temporary certificates of occupancy . Supervisor Desch added that some research was needed and have it on the agenda. for the next meeting . EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR MAPLEWOOD APARTMENTS /CORNED GRAD STUDENT HOUSING Building Inspector/ Zoning Officer Andrew Frost stated that every time he goes to Cornell he meets about a dozen people who never have his letters and there are all sorts of people shuffling papers and making copies . They are on a temporary certificate of occupancy again and have four , five or six temporary certificates at this point . Each time in part the temporaries are triggered in part by okay you have several things to do to get any extension of the CO down the road you have to do this , this and this to get to the next point we have this , this and this . As of September 19th they have the following items with an October 31st certificate of occupancy termination . One is , there were six items noted on the Fire Department letter of April 13th . It had to do with the ability of the pavement , by specifications , to hold up fire department vehicles , sane hydrant situations which he knew had been resolved and a few other items . Cornell continually tells him by phone that they are working on it but he never gets the documentation back as a regular response . On his September 19th letter , he stated that he would briefly go into them , he noted the fire department letter which they tell him they are working on but he needed to verify that with Bryan Wilbur of the Fire Department . He went on to say that there was a certificate of completion from the New York Board Fire Underwriters for the electrical ,- been told this is okay b the inspection. , verbally he has Y Y electrical inspector as of a week or so ago . Mr . Frost went on to say that there was a situation on the plumbing approval . According to Bolton Point there are no health , safety kinds of issues , there was a fair amount of dialog that we got involved with in terms of the fact that these are factory houses and there is a certain protocol involved and limits as to how far the inspector can go with a factory approved house . The bottom line is , Bolton Point has the authority and wants to test each dwelling unit for leaks . Town Board Minutes 19 October 23 , 1989 Cornell tells him, and he doesn ' t quite believe it , that no one wants to give them access to their units . It seemed to him that out of 16) 0+ units there must be some people that would cooperate with them and provide access to inside of the units . Most of the plumbing that needs testing basically is site installed which is underneath the modular itself , so there really is no need for access . Cornell ' s response is that if they find sow kind of leak they have to get inside to fix it and the tenant isn ' t going to let them get inside to fix it . The other issues is that students are going to be gone Thanksgiving and at Christmas time and that perhaps by Thanksgiving and Christmas they will be able to access all the units and be done with it . He stated that he had told Cornell that the Town has given them enough time . He stated that he told Cornell that what he was anticipating was that they get it all done at the end of this month and that is it . If they are not done by the end of the month and you haven ' t accessed any units and you haven ' t gotten permission form the tenants , we ' ll talk about it then . The bottom line from Ted Wixson at Bolton Point that there is no apparent health hazards at Maplewood Park . The bikeway has now been paved , that was an issue . Final paving of all driveways to be completed or a time table for completion proposed was something he was asking for by the end of October but he did not expect thEffn to get all of the paving done because of the weather . We have had problems with drainage and we still as of this date do not have approval of the drainage ponds by the Town Engineering Department. . There is also an issue about fencing , there plan is to somehow add stones and perhaps planting to their drainage ponds and ultimately do away with a situation where you have visible standing water and also do away with fencing up there . Also , as of this date he stated that he had not received any papers or approvals from Engineering . Engineering was also concerned about the size of the ponds and the retention and how much water the ponds hold . There was access to Maple Avenue and Mitchell Street being approved by both the Town and County according to Eric Whitney last week and he is now satisfied that the access is safe . He stated that he asked for ,, but has not gotten yet , a plan to address current drainage problems on-site and he wanted a time table of completion . He stated that he had been verbally told that they have added gutters and leaders to the buildings and added some drainage things into the ground and they think they have it all under control , but nothing has been received on paper . He stated that he suspected that some of their drainage problems may not be simply taken care of because you have low lying areas and there is no place for it to go unless you pump it up or change the grade up there . Mr . Frost . went on to say that there was a question about fencing around the drainage ponds . He stated that he took same responsibility and he did not believe the fencing was shown on the plan but lie did not like to see ponds of water in a residential area without some kind of fencing . So he was after Cornell to get adequate fencing which they have done but now we have the question of fencing may be a problem especially visually . He stated that he was asking for signage throughout the complex which includes "No Parking" signs , etc . , we have everything except one stop sign which is a portable stop sign that seems to disappear every other day . He stated that he felt they could have had this all done a month ago . Supervisor Desch asked if any of the drainage issues was putting the off site areas at risk or are they on-site drainage problems ? Mr . Frost replied that he would say they were on- site problems . Part of the problems we had was when the City dumped a water tank for cleaning and that water somehow goes across Cornell Quarters and that added to som of the Problems. Town Board Minutes 20 October 23 , 1989 Councilwoman Leary asked , when did they first starting moving people in ? Mr . Frost replied that he was not quite sure but he thought it was about the first week in September . Councilwoman Leary replied you see in a case like this the only thing we can do is kick everybody out . Mr . Frost. replied , if you don ' t give them a certificate it puts people into a different position as to what kind of legal recourse to take . He stated that he was not making excuses but you have to appreciate a situation where he is up there on a Saturday , he goes back on Sunday , kids are standing around , there is just no place to put anybody . Councilwoian Leary remarked , they should camp out in Day Hall . Councilman McPeak remarked , you can ' t put the students out , they have enough stress and problems as it is . Councilman Whitcomb asked , before you issue a temporary certificate do you try to get from them a schedule of compliance ? Mr . Frost replied , yes . Councilman. Klein asked , have they done some of the things on the schedule and ignored others ? Mr . Frost replied , yes . Councilman Whitcomb asked , what will get their attention? Supervisor Desch remarked , there is another question and that is did they complete the life safety issues on the schedule that they said they would back before they started to occupy the building? Mr . Frost replied yes , otherwise he wouldn ' t have issued the certificates . Councilwoman Raffensperger asked , what about the fire department access , is that still hanging ? Mr . Frost replied , no . We have things like the repaving , the fire department access requirements . This is an NFPA requirement that the asphalt has to be a certain thickness and to be able to carry a certain weight which is the axle weight of the fire vehicles . If the Fire Department went up there now you might end up with a sunken hole in the pavement but it ' s not even finally finished . The Fire Department was comfortable with that . Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked , and that isn ' t a life safety issue ? Mr . Frost :replied not not in terms of them responding . It is very unlikely that the Fire Department would get stuck in the asphalt but you might end up with a pot hole in the pavement . The Fire Department was comfortable with that . Councilwmm Raffensperger remarked , and we have a letter that says that ? Mr . Frost replied , from the Fire Department , perhaps or else verbally . ism wmyfflmfw� Town Board Minutes 21 October 23 , 1989 Councilwoman Raffensperger replied that she thought it was important for the life safety issues for the Town ' s benefit to have all of those clearly taken care of in writing . Mr . Frost. replied that he wouldn ' t call that imminent or provides an imminent danger to someone on the property . Town Planner Beeners stated that she wanted to comment on the extent work required in approving their landscape plan . Mr . Frost has come to me several times when he has issued a temporary certificate and our office has not had the time to get out into the field to make sure that the plan conditions or landscape conditions have been met . The only way she felt they were going to get out of that end is through the improvement of our work programming and the hiring of additional help . What she was currently working with them on is a planting plan that she received in August , which she assumed was a final planting plan , which now show the trees that will be deleted . She stated that she had approved the planting plan she thought it was the final planting plan and now Cornell is telling us this is the final planting plan , in other words , what ever they come up with as final is final . She went on to say that she had :requested revisions as to how they were going to be planting around the retention ponds and also requested that they supply a :schedule of completion for all the improvements shown on the September 1988 plan . She stated that she was essentially asking than to reinstate the plan that she had approved last September . But she felt it would take a while to get through it . We are looking for next spring for planting and if there are any deviations from this she would have to report again to the appropriate board . Mr . Frost remarked that he would just like to go back to the life safety issues , you will just have to take my word that the asphalt issue is riot a life safety issue . He stated that he had Cornell Life Safety and the Fire Department involved in the whole issue . He went oil to say that he did have in writing a list of things among other things , a fire security watch 24 hours a day . They wanted to provide it during the day time but not during the night time but the agreement was around the clock which they did provide . We just didn ' t blanketly say occupy , there were several conditions . They have -the blue lights in operation and because of the telephone strike they brought in several temporary pay phones in the parking lot . We have pretty much the bases covered . He was not sure Cornell teak him seriously , however , that there may not be anymore temporary certificates . On the other hand , they have made some progress but some items are still up in the air but they have another week to provide some documention . Councilwoman Raffensperger stated that she thought she would like to see the Town Attorney draft a letter clearly outlining the things that are necessary in order to receive this certificate and if they have not made substantial progress or set up a compliance schedule within ten days or whatever , they aren ' t going to get one . However , it is phased and however it is described , she felt it needed to be addressed in one letter instead of these multitude of letters and phone calls , a very clear letter . Town Attorney Barney replied that Mr . Frost was very good at documenting things but he felt he could take Mr . Frost ' s letter and sit down with him and find out what was open , phrase the letter with a tent day limit . He stated that he would say that if the Board did not have a satisfactory response they (Cornell ) could count on evacuating at the end of October . Supervisor Desch asked who the letter would be addressed to? Town Board Minutes 22 October 23 , 1989 Town Attorney Barney replied , probably Mr . Rhodes and let him filter it. down as to where it should go . Councilman Bartholf remarked that he realized the Andy Frost was having a rough time and he felt the Board needed to give him some support . The Town Board needs to give him the support and say now this is it , let ' s do something . Councilwa-nan Raffensperger remarked , they certainly aren ' t going to get it done within ten days , that ' s not what we are saying , we are saying either do it or tell us exactly when you are going to do it . Town Attorney Barney replied , that he felt they were doing it , to a certain extent . Supervisor Desch remarked that the point was the paving wouldn ' t be done before next Spring because if they do it it will fall apart . But you need to know that it is going to be done by "X " date . Councilman McPeak remarked that there is a clause in the leases that says Cornell has access any time they want for life safety issues , he stated he knew this because he wrote that into the leases . Councilwoman Leary remarked , so we are giving them ten days to come up with a schedule , is that all we want ? Mr . Frost replied , plumbing issues , he wanted something specifically addressing the Fire Department letter from April 13th , which they have been working on but he had nothing in writing , approval of the final landscaping plan , we still do not have the drainage ponds , approval of the drainage ponds , which he expected by the end of the month . Town Attorney Barney remarked , today is October 23rd and his sense was that if he could get the letter out this afternoon , to say by October 31st if we don ' t have these there will be no extension of the temporary certificate . Councilwoman Leary asked , and you are authorized to start eviction proceedings ? Town Attorney Barney replied , that ' s up to the Board . We are meeting again on the 9th . Councilwcman Leary remarked , what we are essentially saying is if you don ' t do this by the end of the month we will get very annoyed . Town Attorney Barney replied , they understand the law and he assumed without a certificate of occupancy they are occupying it illegally . Then on the 9th we will look at it to see where they are and than if the Board wants to authorize us to proceed because they are a:)ntinuing to occupy it illegally , which he expected they would , then you can make a determination . If you want to make a decision today then he would go ahead and chase after them on November 1st , we can do that too . Councilwoman Leary replied , if they don ' t have a certificate of occupancy then , that ' s the logical step , right? Town Attorney Barney replied , that would be the logical step . Councilwc m m Leary replied that she thought that if the Board did not use those magical words they won ' t take it seriously . _ w a III iiiiiii>vr nm°ru� nn�wninn��rrmmi�rrmmm�rnnvi� Town Board Minutes 23 October 23 , 1989 Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked , there is no sense threatening to evict families unless you are really prepared to do it . Councilwoman Leary replied , isn ' t that what it means though , if you don ' t have a certificate of occupancy? Town Attorney Barney replied , yes it means that but one step , it ' s like speeding and occasionally he goes in excess of 55 MPH but he may or may not get prosecuted depending on a number of things , the least of which who is looking at him when he does it . They can be illegal but the Board may or may not choose to institute the proceedings if we feel , for whatever reason , there is progress being made . We may at that point feel there is progress being made and we tell Andy Frost to go ahead and issue another temporary certificate of occupancy , or you may say this is an intolerable situation ,, they are not responding or showing any effort to respond , and we will have to go the full route . There is going to be some very disgruntled people and while technically the University is responsible the people are going to be caning after them, which is us , it ' s the Town that is going to be getting a little bit. of the brunt from the occupants up there . Councilwoman Leary replied , that ' s what Cornell is betting on . Town Attorney Barney agreed . Councilwoman Leary went on to say that that was why she did not think they were going to move . Because this is our only enforcement . Town Attorney Barney replied that he thought that if he wrote a letter to President Rhodes that in itself he felt would bring sane action . They tend to say what in the world are they getting a little like this for? He said it was up to the Board but his recamiendation would be to send a fairly firm letter and we can go so far as to say when your certificate of temporary occupancy is not renewed we will expect you to comply with the law and vacate the premises . He stated that he could put it in that terminology without saying we are going to sue you on November 1st if you don ' t do it . Councilwoman Leary remarked , again it ' s not just life safety it ' s the principle of our requirements . Councilwoman Leary went on to say that she was not sure the Board had finished the discussion on the Chamber before moving on to Cornell . supervisor Desch replied , we are looking for a co pliance schedule , as far as he knew . Councilwomen Leary replied that she was arguing that she was not even sure the Planning Board was the appropriate place to put this request because we requested it . supervisor Desch replied , where should it be ? Councilwoman Leary replied , wasn ' t it the Town Board that specified the site plan approval ? supervisor Desch replied that he thought the Town Attorney had made the point that the Planning Board ' s purview of the specific site plan was the place to go since the scale of the changes were minor . Councilwoman Leary replied , in his opinion it wasn ' t major enough and she was saying that it was sort of major because of the - - sn�mm�im YYII11iWI�liYxnrrmw�n��ua�u��o�uaerwuio•� Town Board Minutes 24 October 23 , 1989 controversy that was generated by the public , that these concerns were pretty major . Councilwoman Raffensperger asked , can we check and see in the local law that the Board passed for the special district , to what extent these items were our contingencies . If any of these touch on that , it would have to come back to the Town Board . PERSONS TD BE HEARD Eva Hoffmann stated that she was sent here by Henry Aron , to represent him as the Chairman of the Zoning Board of Appeals to discuss several problems the ZBA was having with a property on East Shore Drive that Ivar and Janet Jonson are building . She went on to say that the item was not on the agenda and she did not know if she should be speaking about it now or not . Town Attorney Barney remarked , this relates to a building on which a variance was granted to allow Mr . Jonson to build a building 12 ' wide on a very narrow lot , a 20 ' wide lot . When he put the foundation in it was indeed a 12 ' foundation , when he put the walls up on top of the foundation the walls projected out from the foundation about 2 " on each side , so he now has a 12 ' 4 " building as opposed to a 12 ' building . Mrs . Hoffmann went on to say that there are other problems too . She stated that her main problem about it was that which we approved , we made a decision based on plans that they presented to us and based on things that they said to us at the meeting in response to questions we put to them . And there are at least three other items . when we looked at the floor plan , it was a floor plan it wasn ' t a foundation plan , so she felt one could expect the house , not the foundation , to be 12 ' . At one point Henry Aron asked because on the drawings it showed a window on the second floor like an attic window although a little bigger on two gable ends of the building and he asked if there was going to be an attic . Nii-s . Jonson said no there was going to be a cathedral ceiling . At one point Ed Austen asked if there was going to be a loft . Mrs; . Jonson said no there would be no loft . At one point she asked if there was going to be sky lights in the ceilings because on the long walls there were no windows and on the roof there were , actually there were no plans the second time when we made the decision , showing any windows on the roof but at an earlier time they showed us a sketch without any measurement of anything and on that sketch there were four sky lights indicated on the roof . Mrs . Hoffmann stated that she asked if there would be sky lights and she said yes because they had no windows and that was one way of letting light in . Now there are , instead , dormers , very large dormers which changes the way the house looks from the road . She stated that in fact when she went to look at it she wasn ' t sure it was the same house they had approved , it just looked that different . There is also apparently a loft where those dormers are and there is a big window in each dormer and apparently a loft when they had said there wasn ' t going to be a loft . Mrs . Hoffmann went on to say that her problem is what is the meaning of the plans 1`hat they bring into us and what ' s the meaning of what we sit and talk about and they give us answers . What do those answers mean if in fact they don ' t live up to them? Henry Aron had thought there was doing to be a discussion today to send this back to us to discuss . Supervisor Desch replied , that was his question , he wondered what was happening . Town Board Minutes 25 October 23 , 1989 Building Inspector/ Zoning Officer Andrew Frost replied that he sent them a letter directing them to come back to the Zoning Board . He stated that in his last telephone conversation with Ivar , Ivar had no intentions of coming back to the Zoning Board . He stated that he had told Mr . Jonson that he could not occupy the house without a certificate of occupancy and Mr . Jonson had said he didn ' t need it which suggests he would occupy it without a certificate . He stated that he did not intend to let it go two months without saying he has not gone to the Zoning Board now we will go to court . He stated that he took some responsibility for the loft because he missed that in the minutes but he doesn ' t typically read all of the minutes . But the loft in itself does not make this a two story house . Supervisor Desch remarked , so you are going to send him a letter and if there is no response when we meet on November 9th then we can decide about litigation . Mrs . Hoffmann remarked that Mr . Aron ' s point is that the Zoning Board of Appeals made a decision , they have violated this decision , why would they need to come back to the Zoning Board of Appeals , unless there is something new that would make us look at the whole thing again . He feels that they should be taken to court . Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked , if this were on a 100 ' lot it wouldn ' t make any difference but it is on a very small lot and very close to adjoining landowners and she had received calls every day from one adjoining landowner . Councilman Whitcomb asked if the Town had any mechanism to put a stop work order on the project when we notice that obviously they are going to be out of compliance ? The same thing happened on King Road , when. the building was completed out of specification with the plan he came back to the Zoning Board for a variance pleading hardship that his building wasn ' t ccanplying and he felt this should be stopped . Mr . Frost replied , in the case of Barra as in the case of Jonson he was made aware of the problem when it was discovered . With Barra there was a framing inspection which initiated the . whole thing . Right now the Barra house is operating as a single family residence and is in compliance but he can ' t use it as a two- family dwelling . Town Attorney Barney remarked that he thought the reason they wanted them to come back to the Zoning Board of Appeals was to give them an opportunity to see if the Zoning Board of Appeals would choose to modify the terms of the variance . You are not obliged to but if you want to take a look you can . Mr . Frost remarked that that was the way Mr . Aron had directed him in the beginning . Mrs . Hoffmann replied well he directed me to come here and make the points that she made . Councilwoman Raffensperger noted that the Zoning Board of Appeals was very careful because the project was so controversial . Councilwoman Leary asked , why do we have to wait for the 9th for this , we have a clear indication from that Zoning Board that they are not interested in granting a variance * Mr . Frost replied that he had given them one notice to go to the Zoning Board , if he wanted a certificate of occupancy . Supervisor Desch asked Mr . Frost what he would say in the letter . - -- ---- III 111111111 1111011 IN 111111111 Town Board Minutes 26 October 23 , 1989 Mr . Frost replied , we have not heard from you , if application is not made for you to appear before the Zoning Board by such and such date we have no other recourse except to initiate legal actions for your violations . Councilwoman Leary replied , that just delays it more because the Zoning Board isn ' t going to look kindly on it . Town Attorney Barney replied that he wouldn ' t prejudge what the Zoning Board of Appeals might decide . Councilwoman Leary remarked , well again the principle is that they get directions one way , they ignore it , they build it another way and then they figure . . . . . this is sending a message that they can go back to whatever Board it is and get a variance after the fact . Mr . Frost replied , a signal in the case of Barra got out that we are not going to mess around this way . There is no way to prevent these things from happening and he could not tell how many times he was at Ivar ' s measuring the foundation to make sure it was 12 ' wide . Now that we have the problem , he did not want to take the responsibility for Jonson ' s problems . Town Attorney Barney remarked that it was a question of what process you want to take . You could authorize a law suit today because technically it is in violation but he thought the step was that he should be sent a letter stating that Mr . Jonson was not in compliance in a number of ways , the 4 " being one , the dormers he felt the Board could really take issue with , you are not in conpliance and you have two options . One is either rebuild your building the correct way or seek a variance and if you don ' t do one or the other or if you seek a variance and a variance is not granted then the recommendation to the Town Board would be to start legal action against you . Councilwoman Raffensperger remarked that if we do end up going to court it would be better that he had the opportunity to go to the Board of Zoning Appeals and have that considered at that point . Supervisor Desch agreed , noting that he would have been given a notice first that it was going to happen . Councilman. Whitcomb asked how long would he be given to make application to the ZBA? Mr . Frost replied , well he had anticipated on having him here this Wednesday but obviously he is not coming this Wednesday so he could give him the next meeting which is November 14th or he could say make application by the end of this month . AUTHORIZE ADVERTISING TO FILL VACANCY IN TOWN ENGINEER POSITION RESOLUTION NO . 280 Motion by Supervisor Desch ; seconded by Councilman MCPeak , RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca hereby authorize the advertising to fill the vacancy in the Town Engineer position . (Desch , Mcpeak , Raffensperger , Bartholf , Leary , Klein and Whitcomb voting Aye . Nays - none ) . PRINTING Ol? THE ZONING ORDINANCE Town Board Minutes 27 October 23 , 1989 Supervisor Desch asked if the issue was how many copies to print ? Town Attorney Barney replied , we had our meeting with Mr . Coons and he really didn ' t have too much to offer , but we reread the family definition and have made a couple of changes . So we need to set a public hearing for the 9th to review the revised version and if adopted it could be incorporated before printing . Otherwise he suggested. that a limited quantity be printed until the occupancy question was resolved . RESOLUTION N0 . 281 Motion by Councilwcman Raffensperger ; seconded by Councilman Whitcomb , RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca will meet and conduct a public hearing at 8 : 15 P . M . , on November 9 , 1989 to consider a local law amending the Zoning Ordinance relative to the occupancy of dwelling units . (Desch , Mcpeak , Raffensperger , Bartholf , Leary , Klein and Whitcomb voting Aye . Nays - none ) . PROBATIONARY INCREASE FOR DEPUTY TOWN CLERK RESOLUTI01`d N0 . 282 Motion by Councilman McPeak ; seconded by Councilman Bartholf , WHEREAS , upon hire Mrs . Betty F . Poole , Deputy Town Clerk , was offered a $ 500 salary increase for successful completion of her 3-month probationary period , and WHEREAS , Mrs . Poole has successfully completed her 3-month probationary today , and WHEREAS , the Personnel Committee has reviewed the situation and reccnmendc, in favor of the offered increase , and WHEREAS , the Personnel Committee has reviewed the situation and recommends in favor of the offered increase , NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca approves and does hereby grant Mrs . Betty F . Poole , Deputy Town Clerk , a $ 500 salary increase effective October 24 , 1989 . The increase will be paid from A1410 . 100 Town Clerk - Personal Services . (Desch , - McPeak , Raffensperger , Bartholf , Leary , Klein and Whitcamb voting Aye . Nays - none) . RATIFY APPOINEVIENT OF PLANNING/ENGINEERING TEMPORARY SECRETARY RESOLUTION N0 . 283 Motion by Councilman McPeak ; seconded by Councilman Klein , WHEREAS , a request to consider appointment of Ms . Dani L . Williams as a full=time , temporary Secretary to the Planning and Engineering Departments for a period of six months to update the Town ' s map collection index and reference catalogue was suhmitted by Nancy , Fuller , Executive Secretary , and ®mnmmn Yiflli������wlnn�gu�tinOlIIW411oMY�Ar®�ilde� Town Board Minutes 28 October 23 , 1989 WHEREAS , a poll of the members of the Town Board conducted on October 5 , 1989 , resulted in a majority of Board members being in favor of this appointment , NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED , that the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca does hereby officially approve appointment of Ms . Dani L . Williams as full-time , Temporary Secretary to the Planning and Engineering Department for a period of six months . As was requested. , her hourly rate will be $ 7 . 00 /hour , and she will be paid for holidays that fall within her six-month tenure with the Town . She will be paid equally from A1440 . 100 Engineering - Personal Services and B8020 . 100 Planning - Personal Services . (Desch , McPeak , Raffensperger , Bartholf , Leary , Klein and Whitcomb voting Ay. . Nays - none ) . ACCEPTANCE OF GRANT FOR TRAFFIC INVENTORY AND STUDY RESOLUTIOIJ N0 . 284 Motion by Councilman Whitcomb ; seconded by Supervisor Desch , WHEREAS , the Federal Government , through the Federal Highway Safety Program has made funds available to the State and units of local government. under Section 402 ( c ) of Public Law 89-564 , as amended , to assist them in establishing coordinated highway safety programs , and WHEREAS , the grant for computerizing the signage inventory and identification of road hazards has been approved , NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED , by the Town Board of the Town of Ithaca 19 That the Town Supervisor be and hereby is authorized to enter into a grant agreement with the Governor ' s Traffic Safety Committee pursuant to the above mentioned program , 29 That the Town Supervisor be hereby authorized to advertise for bids as required , 3 . That the Town Supervisor is authorized to award contracts in accordance with this application . (Desch , McPeak , Raffensperger , Bartholf , Leary , Klein and Whitcomb voting Aye . Nays - none) . Supervisor Desch noted that the Board had the spec for the new truck which the Highway Superintendent distributed for the Board to look at before the next meeting . Councilman Bartholf remarked that he had a question about something he had received in the mail on the sound measurement instrument . He stated that he would like to ask someone to call Peter Hillman because he said it was only going to be $ 32 . 00 or something like that and here we cow up with a figure of from $ 500 to $ 700 worth of meter . Supervisor Desch replied that is true , there is the question of how much time you want to spend running around calibrating it . Probably in the end it will be the proper way to go . Town Board Minutes 29 October 23 , 1989 Councilwm an Leary remarked , we approved Dani Williams before she had a chance to finish reading the resolution and asked if it would be possible to throw in something about sick time too? Paying her for sick days . She asked if there was some way to prorate that or something so that if she gets sick she can get some sick time during that six months ? Linda Nobles replied , according to our normal policy temporary employees whether they are part time or full time don ' t get sick time . Temporary people have been hired in the past with a variety of benefits probably when there was the expectation that that person would became permanent . You certainly have the option to make that stipulation . Councilwoman Leary asked , when she was here through the temporary agency was she getting any sick time benefits ? Linda Nobles replied that she did not know , however , when the time sheets were received there were no hours on the days she was not working . Councilwanan Leary replied , sick time is a very , very basic benefit and she felt . . . . . Linda Nobles added , but normally only afforded to permanent employees . She didn ' t ask about it , she only asked about holidays . ADJOURNMENT The meeting was duly adjourn ed . Clerk