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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-05-09 Public Hearing Minutes Local Law ' s 1 ,2 ,3 of 2005 May 9, 2005 TOWN OF DANBY PUBLIC HEARING MINUTES MAY 9, 2005 PRESENT : Supervisor Dietrich Councilpersons : Joel Gagnon, Norbert Nolte, Naomi Strichartz, Gladys Varona-Lacey Others Present : Susan Beeners - Code Enforcement Officer Carol W . Sczepanski - Town Clerk Susan Beeners - Code Enforcement Officer Richard Stumbar - Town Attorney Members of the Public : Raymond & Charlotte Mayo , Edward & Donna Inman, Ross & Elaine Cortright, Gene Beavers, Mel Westmiller, Greg Wooster, Ames Brown, Bob Hunt, Eileen Wright, Robert & Elizabeth Roe, Mary Oltz, Sue Howe, Sally Gagnon, Steve Cortright, Roaring, Anne Klingensmith, James Herson, Earnest Payton, Walter Guldenschuh, George Payton, Henry Peterson Tim DeVood, Olivia Vent Ramona Ehrhardt, Pat Woodworth, Frank Darrow, Willard & Dorothy Daetsch, Susan Hautala, Richard Oltz, Eric Miller, Kara & Eric Palmer, Jennifer Mullen, John Shepardson Sr. , Al Becker, Josh Benjamin, Amanda House, John Rosenbaum, Robert Chase, Janet & Tom Gray, Judy & Patrick Caveny, Jane Crispell, Cheri & William Farrell, Mary Gitlen/Lisa Tactgosko, Judy Willis, Marty & Faith Sternstein, Earl Ekdall, David Mastroberti , Barry Craddock, David Cook, Rick Dobson, George Blanchard, Carol Steele, Berne Fitzpatrick, Don Barnes , Jonathan Fisk/Leslie Connors, Ted Sukentarsk/ Sarah McNeill, John & Carolyn Colrun, Faith Chase, Brian Miller, Jeanne Rauten, Rick Lazarus, Bill Halton, Donna & Elizabeth Mosher, Jack Baker, Ray VandeBogart, Kathie DeWolf and many others . Public Hearing Declared Open : Supervisor Dietrich declared the Public Hearing Open at 7 : 10 p .m . and read the following Public Notice : " PLEASE TAKE NOTICE, that the Town Board of the Town of Danby will hold public hearings on Monday, May 9, 2005 at 7 : 00 p . m . at the Town Hall, 1830 Danby Road, Ithaca, NY, to consider adopting the following local laws . A LOCAL LAW AMENDING THE ZONING ORDINANCE REGARDING THE NUMBER OF LOTS ALLOWED, AND REQUIRED LOT AREA A LOCAL LAW AMENDING THE ZONING MAP BY CHANGING CERTAIN AREAS CLASSIFIED AS MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL ZONE TO LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL ZONE A LOCAL LAW AMENDING THE SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS OF THE TOWN OF DANBY REGARDING ADMINISTRATION, NOTIFICATION PROCEDURES , SUBDIVISION CLASSIFICATION, REVIEW AND APPROVAL PROCEDURES , CLUSTERED SUBDIVISIONS , OPEN SPACE STANDARDS , ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION, STREET IMPROVEMENTS , CERTIFICATION OF IMPROVEMENTS , SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS , AND DEFINITIONS All persons will be heard either in person or in writing. Copies of the local laws may be reviewed at the Danby Town Clerks Office during regular office hours . By Order of the Town Board Carol W. Sczepanski, Town Clerk Dated April 22 , 2005 Publish : April 26 , 2003 " i I 4 ! .. H 2 Public Hearing Minutes Local Law ' s 1 ,2 , 3 of 2005 May 9 , 2005 Communications : Affidavit of Posting of Legal Notice Affidavit of Notice to Neighboring Municipalities of Change in Zoning Ordinance Affidavit of Publication Review by Tompkins County Planning Pursuant to ss239- 1 & m of the New York State General Municipal Law of revisions to the subdivision regulations, zoning ordinance, and zoning map . Letter from Judy and Patrick Caveney Supervisor Dietrich said that we were going through the history in terms of where we are with this . You will be allowed three minutes per person for those of you who wish to speak. We are here to make comment on the proposed local laws . Chairperson Gagnon said that he would review for those of you who are not already familiar a little bit about the process so that we could put what is being said here tonight in context . The Comprehensive Plan was adopted in September of 2003 . The following early winter the Task Force was created as a committee of the Town Board to look at ways we could set a position for the Town to implement the Comprehensive Plan. The Task Force chose early on to focus first on open space protection as a primary task. The County of Tompkins Planning Department was hired to assist us in that process . The first step in that process was to create a list of potential strategies for protecting open space. We had a meeting here where everybody was invited and we took the consensus of the group and which values among the list of twenty(20) or so that the County presented to us as possibilities, made sense and were further investigated for Danby. Several committees were created to look into these values further, reported back to the group and it was from that report it was essentially grouped into regulatory strategies and non-regulatory strategies We said we would get to the non-regulatory strategies and we did. The regulatory stuff we looked at and decided what we really wanted to do . Then Crystal Buck, our consultant with the County Planning Department was charged with re-writing our Danby Local Laws in order to incorporate these strategies into the subdivision regulations and the zoning ordinance . She did that and came back to us and the group reviewed it, made changes and decided to come together. This happened in the context of a super imposed moratorium that we had on project development in which window we were trying to get this together. We only had until January to pass on to the Town whether we wanted to in order to be considered within the window of the moratorium . At that point we had main points/out . We sent those main points on to the Town Board for consideration even though there was a bunch of unfinished provisional stuff which we are still dealing with which we will deal with later. That main package of things has now been run through two(2) public information meetings, has been reviewed by the Planning Board, the Town Board and the Town Attorney, and modified in response to comments to all of those . Crystal will review the main points prior to your comments so that everyone will have a pretty good idea of what is on th table . There is more to do . I think the particulars are to be to come back with the non-regulatory imposed for open space preservation and that is just part of the big picture . The big picture that the Comprehensive Plan set forth is that we want to try to encourage development and population growth in the existing hamlets of Danby and West Danby and to reserve and use the countryside surrounding primarily for recreation, agriculture and tourism . Crystal Buck from Tompkins County Planning gave a brief description of the changes that are being proposed. She described overviews of the zoning changes, and the subdivision regulations and conservation areas using a power point demonstration . Q - Ted Merritt asked what was considered a subdivision as subdivision to him is a group of houses not a house . He does not think it should apply to a single lot. Bob Lieberman - sees both the good side and the bad side. He sees the bad side as being a bureaucracy and the good side as maintaining some sort of green space . We are losing a lot of hunting areas . He is leaning a bit toward the green space . Q - Sanford Miller asked that the conservation area be explained . He said that the conservation area 3 Public Hearing Minutes Local Law ' s 1 ,2 ,3 of 2005 May 9 , 2005 smacks of socialism to him . Q - Brian Miller concerned about the land. Why if he wants to sell a piece of land off do he need to give a larger piece of land away and still have to pay taxes on it for his own recreational use. You are losing rights to that property. He said that he had attended a lot of the Task Force meetings and his suggestions fell on deaf ears because they had a certain agenda to follow and they don ' t care what others think about lands getting chewed up . There will be a house and then a brush lot a house and then a brush lot. Rick Lazarus thinks the new regulations are heading in the right direction. Sue Howe - this looks like this will come as a higher cost to tax payers to regulate these subdivision regulations . The Town already has a lot of State Forest Lands that are part of our Town and that does not generate a lot of tax revenue . Q - Are the conservation areas in a subdivision an expense to the subdivision or an expense to the Town and who has access to those conservation areas? Donna Mosher of Duffer Hill Road - owns thirty acres and would like to build a new house and a barn on their property. Q - does she need subdivision of the property or could they just put up a new house and barn. A - Supervisor Dietrich said that they do not have to go through subdivision . (This answer was wrong. ) Jack Baker - comment on Yaple Road subdivision. Q - how much of the Hansen farm with all that green space is now available for hunting? Ray VanDeBogart - concerned with conversation area. Is not apposed to neighborhood new notification regulations . His real worry is the amount of bureaucracy that we are creating trying to implement this and the amount of work it is going to take to oversee everything your neighbors do . The first mistake was the implementation of a moratorium . People who want to continue in town government cannot continue in this manner. He is opposed to how it came out. He is not opposed to reserving some green space but the conservation area concept was slid in at the last meeting and not something that was worked out as the Task Force went along. Dave Cook - would like an article in the Ithaca Journal made a part of this meeting. Q - wants to know why we have one County representative here who supports this but we have another County representative who explains to you what is the possible effort to homeowners and, tax payers He quoted Councilperson Gagnon statement to the Journal and the reference regarding the Director of Tompkins County Assessments review of possible effect on property values . Susan Beeners referred to the memo from the Assessment Department and explained that she has met with the Assessment Department and they did not understand the regulations . George Blanchard - attended the Task Force meetings and understands why most persons attending the Task Force meetings stopped . He offered input that never made it into any of the legislation. He said that he would run for Town Supervisor this fall and that there Gene Beavers and Joe Salino are going to run for Town Board. Rick Dobson - the Town has approximately 12 ,000 acres in State Forest Land. Only about 5 % of the land in Danby is developed or built upon. Q - Why do we need the 60% conservation area? Elizabeth Owens-Roe - appreciates open space but thinks that some of the issues that the director of Assessment took up are still not clear. Danby has always been an inclusive community. She is tired of paying for everyone ' s views . She said she is thinking of putting up a sign that says "Welcome to Danby pay per view. " Q - What is the impact on land owners if they follow this plan and who is going to compensate the 4 Public Hearing Minutes Local Law ' s 1 ,2 , 3 of 2005 May 9, 2005 landowner for having 60% of land that is not developable . What does that do to the tax base? Anne Clavel - should not apply to five acres or more . There is just too much bureaucracy. The Town should consider flag lots and not go to the trouble of subdividing . Dick Oltz - feels this is forcing young people out of the town. They are not going to be able to live here unless they have inherited a small fortune. Maybe a turnover should be in order of Town Board Members . Susan Hautala - Two acre lots are fine but the conservation area is not necessary. We have 10- 12 , 000 acres of conservation area that anyone can use. Resident - just moved here - Q - what is the purpose of green space and who decides where that should be? Resident - referred to Yaple Road - was subdivided into five acre lots and some of the land was donated to the Treman State Parks . He does not think that there is any waste land. Rick Hardesty - is confuded as to what is meant by the 60-40 . Q - asked for an explanation of what is meant by the 60-40 . Ray Mayo - He is totally opposed to these new regulations . Leave the open space up to the land owners to determine what they want and where it is going to be. Q - why do we give a hoot what Tompkins County wants as far as our land is concerned? Q - has heard there are deed restrictions being put in along with this but nobody has been talking about it. A - Crystal said that in most cases a deed restriction or something like that would be filed for the conservation area. John Shepardson - does not think that he needs the Town or anyone else to tell him what to do with his land. Al Becker - he does not intend to subdivide or do anything with his land. He intends to be held hostage by the tax collectors . He is not going to be held hostage by the Town Board. He does not want to see his neighbors being dictated to . He has not heard tonight that the Town Board will pick up the development rights . What is the Town going to pay us for the development rights . Bob Strichartz - thanked the Task Force for their coming up with the very innovative and interesting program . We have heard a lot of negative comments at this meeting. To him this sounds like a reasonable plan and does not think that it will have all these negative consequences . If it does then there is time to revise it . Guillermo- Conservation areas and Land Trust can be written into the rules . Pat Woodworth - sounds like a reasonable plan to her. Frank Darrow - A lot of things attracted him to this area. Development of this plan has reasonable chance of preserving land. Q- what the possible best guesses are for are on the overall assessed valuation of the individual parcels both small and large . He would like to know if we have any best guesses as to what the likely impact is over the next several years . Anything better than waiting a few years to see what happens . Is there any history anywhere that will give us that inforniation? If the information from the assessment office is actually true we have hit on a goldmine . We will be the only town in Tompkins County with our assessments going down. Willard Daetsch - assessment went up $ 35 , 000 and $40 ,000 in two years . He is impressed at how open the Task Force has been to anybody coming . There have been compromises and it is work in 5 Public Hearing Minutes Local Law ' s 1 ,2 ,3 of 2005 May 9 , 2005 progress . Dorothy Daetsch - tried to come to most of the meetings . There has been flexibility built in and it is a start . George Wooster - understands that people feel that they have rights on their land to do whatever they please. With development some people may have fear in regards to issues with new neighbors and noise. Bill Farrell - does not approve of 60-40 regulations . There isn ' t any right in the Town where they tell people that they must have 60-40 . We are one of the first towns that are doing that. They cannot tell me what other towns are doing this and he has asked many times . The answer has been that they are working on it. He thinks that people should be able to do what they want to do with their property as long as they do not harm the environment. Q - What other towns in New York State have a 60-40 conservation regulation? Supervisor Dietrich said Danby is one of the first towns in Tompkins County to have zoning. A - Sue Beeners reported that there are seven (7) towns in New York State that have had similar regulations but maybe a little more strict. She listed the towns and counties . Al Becker - They are opening a can of worms . Sherri Farrell Q - with respect to this 60% that would be put into a conservation district, you talk about that 60% being used perhaps for agriculture . She would like to know how much prime agriculture land there is in the Town of Danby? When you talk to the farmers in this town who cannot farm their land because it is so poor. They are trying to develop their land in order to save their investments . Pat Caveny - conservation of 60% open land and what it is going to cost us . Is also concerned about this legislation being enacted that serves to preserve some of these conceptions of what is the good use if any or is it to protect . Some of this is complicated and will require extra office help . Or to protect them against the neighbors having a driveway that is too long. Bob Chase - applauds the work that went into all of this . Frank Payton - does not have anything to say at this time . Ames Brown - people who build in developments do not come to meetings and are not part of your community. They are the elite . The median age of people in developments is 50 years . In ten years these people are not going to own two or five acres or a big house. There will be musical chairs among the wealthy and taxes will go up . Kathy Halton - said that the Finger Lakes Land Trust sets aside land for public use . She appreciates the work that has been done . Henry Peterson - plans to build White Hawk Community on Danby Road . The town should look at all the needs . Tim Devood - it is possible that we gave up some rights but there are people out there who will pay a premium for good land . Bob Hunt - personally does not agree with the plan. We should be looking into the water availability and sewer. Olivia Vent - is a Planning Board member and congratulated the Task Force personally and appreciates the effort they have made . She is concerned about the additional administrative work load this will generate. She would like to here more about what are the options if this does not pass . 6 Public Hearing Minutes Local Law ' s 1 ,2 , 3 of 2005 May 9 , 2005 Don Barns - does not see any proposed changes in density along the highway making it medium or high density. He sees this as becoming more cumbersome He feels that everybody wants to restrict, restrict, restrict. You want to make more rules for low density but you don ' t create a medium or high density so that people can build. . He is against this legislation. Debbie Benson - You have a vision of a hamlet but not talking about it yet. You ' re moving forward to restrict the road density that goes through the town and not addressing both issues at the same time . Those areas that are for high density are wetlands and streams that lead to Buttermilk Falls . Ramona Eherhart : It is important to preserve some land is some fashion . She has 120 acres and 400 sheep . Is concerned that preserving small pockets of land as it will increase small pockets of deer all over. As one of the goals of this committee it was to preserve agricultural land. Q- what sort of incentives do you have in place or agriculture? Who is going to farm these little pieces? Jean Beavers - not in favor of the ordinance as it will defiantly have an effect on his neighbors . It will also affect the majority who are in the low density housing areas of West Danby. He has talked with his neighbors and most of them are not in favor of the proposed changes . He said that he does not feel represented by the Town Board . Mel Westmiller - is totally against this . He thinks that the Town Board should be looking at other things . There are other issues out there that should be addressed. Steve Cortright - feels that he is an adult and knows how best to manage his land and does not need other people to tell him how to do it. Is against this legislation. Rhonda Roaring - member of the task force and is asking the Town Board to approve the proposed changes . What she is hearing here is a lot of misunderstanding of what is really being proposed. Ann Klingensmith - favors the zoning changes that the committee came up with. They can be changed later. Lamar Herrin - has sympathy for his neighbors and people who own land in this town who might like to do something with it. He understands some would like to build on their land. What he does not have sympathy for is people who come from outside and want to impose their vision of the future on us . He supports the plan and would like to see some fine tuning done to devise the property owners that want to build sparingly on the land Mary Woodson - although development improves the tax base for the town it seems to make sense in reality that is a myth. Studies including Tompkins County has shown open land carries the tax burden of the town. Bond ratings can be higher due to managed land. Ed Inman - why can ' t the land be designed so that it can be sold off in parcels to include conservation area . Areas that are agriculture lands the set aside for conservation will be wetlands or unuseable land . The conservation area will drive the up the cost of the land. Donna Inman - not much of Danby is populated . It would be nice to be able to tell with clearer mapping where the wetlands are, and where the State Forest Lands are located and slopes that cannot be developed or unuseable . There is no commercial land available . Q - would like to know what percentage of the areas as compared to the whole township . How much of the land is actually available. Ted Jones - he complimented the task force for their job . Elaine Cortright - what bothers her is the tax implications . She served as a Certified NYS Real Property Appraiser for seven years (assessor) . Is concerned that we restrict development and the amount of land. We are going to seriously erode our tax base and the rest of us will be picking up 7 Public Hearing Minutes Local Law ' s 1 ,2 , 3 of 2005 May 9 , 2005 larger amounts of taxes every year. We need to have some balance . Sixty per cent set aside is way too much . Ross Cortright - Thinks the 60% set aside is out of line. You cannot force that on the people . If you want to do that, give the land owners the option of doing that and then give some benefit for doing it . Don ' t make us do it and then tax us on eroding our individual property rights . Bob Roe - there are 7,496 acres of NYS State Forest Lands in Danby and that includes both the forest, upper Buttermilk and Jennings Pond. As a member of the Planning Board, he helped write the Comprehensive Plan. This is a very specific interpretation by various specific groups of people and is not the Comprehensive Plan itself Seventy percent of the development in Danby is people putting up one house not big subdivisions . There is nothing about affordable housing of any form in this legislation. This will increase the number of non-conforming properties significantly. Ted Crane - finds comments interesting . He would like not to have developers develop much of our open space . He would like to see conservation areas put together with no houses around it so that if fact you could stand in for hunters to fire a gun. With no plan there will be just two acre lots with a lot of houses . Q - He understands that a burned down house cannot be replaced. A. A non-conforming lot would need adjustments . It is no different from the way it is now . Lee Washesky - member of Planning Board - is concerned about the regulations . He thinks that we have created a crisis now . We feel like we have to decide real quick Q - When are you going to vote on this and why cannot we as a Town have an open vote on this or does the Board have to decide for us? Tom Seaney - has misunderstood the 60/40 for conservation area. Does not see how this would decrease the land value . Barry Craddock - CMC is considered a small development. He personally thinks what the Town Board is doing is criminal . He came to many Task Force meetings and couldn ' t vote at the first three meetings . He didn ' t see any votes taking place to support the changes in the regulations at these meetings so he stopped coming. It is wrong how they run the meetings and the Task Force. He does believe in open spaces and planned development. If Danby wants to grow it needs to grow through planned development and we need planned conservation areas too . You also need to be able to vote on the changes in a Task Force. He does not believe that the Board should vote on this at the next meeting but that they should start over. Jonathan Zisk - has studied environmental sciences . Development is expensive. You don ' t make money by having random development . He supports the Board ' s position . He thinks that the regulations are fairly loose compared to other planning committees and development restrictions that can make impossible to develop . The hamlet (higher density areas) areas are being sacrificed for the sake of more restricted area and will cost the Town quite a bit . Jim Henry - Q - what if something goes wrong later other than fire such as with septic? Public Hearing Declared Closed Supervisor Dietrich declared the public hearing closed at 9 : 45 p .m . IiL�L/ v r Carol W. Scze p s i , Town Clerk phm- 1 is - 1 -2 -3 -05 TOWN OF DANBY TOWN BOARD MINUTES MAY 9, 2005 PRESENT : Supervisor Dietrich Councilpersons : Joel Gagnon, Norbert Nolte, Naomi Strichartz, Gladys Varona-Lacey Others Present: Susan Beeners - Code Enforcement Officer • Carol W. Sczepanski - Town Clerk Susan Beeners - Code Enforcement Officer Richard Stumbar - Town Attorney Members of the Public : Raymond & Charlotte Mayo , Edward & Donna Inman, Ross & Elaine Cortright, Gene Beavers, Mel Westmiller, Greg Wooster, Ames Brown, Bob Hunt, Eileen Wright, Robert & Elizabeth Roe, Mary Oltz, Sue Howe, Sally Gagnon, Steve Cortright, Roaring, Anne Klingensmith, James Herson, Earnest Payton, Walter Guldenschuh, George Payton, Henry Peterson Tim DeVood, Olivia Vent Ramona Ehrhardt, Pat Woodworth, Frank Darrow, Willard & Dorothy Daetsch, Susan Hautala, Richard Oltz, Eric Miller, Kara & Eric Palmer, Jennifer Mullen, John Shepardson Sr. , Al Becker, Josh Benjamin, Amanda House, John Rosenbaum, Robert Chase, Janet & Tom Gray, Judy & Patrick Caveny, Jane Crispell, Cheri & William Farrell , Mary Gitlen/Lisa Tactgosko, Judy Willis, Marty & Faith Sternstein, Earl Ekdall, David Mastroberti , Barry Craddock, David Cook, Rick Dobson, George Blanchard, Carol Steele, Berne Fitzpatrick, Don Barnes , Jonathan Fisk/Leslie Connors, Ted Sukentarsk/ Sarah McNeill , John & Carolyn Colrun, Faith Chase, Brian Miller, Jeanne Rauten, Rick Lazarus, Bill Halton, Donna & Elizabeth Mosher, Jack Baker, Ray VandeBogart, Kathie DeWolf and many others . Supervisor Dietrich called the meeting of the board to order at 9 : 45 p .m. following the public hearings on proposed local laws 1 , 2 , and 3 of 2005 . Motion to Adjourn the Board Meeting A motion was made by Councilperson Gagnon and seconded by Councilperson Strichartz that the Town Board of the Town of Danby adjourn the meeting to 7 : 00 p . m . on Wednesday, June 11 , 2005 . A roll call vote on the motion resulted as follows : Gagnon Aye Nolte Aye Strichartz Aye Varona-Lacey Aye Dietrich Aye Carried Unanimously min- 5 -9-05 Carol W. Sczepans , own Clerk