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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-01-27 Town Board MinutesJANUARY 27, 2021 4:03 P.M. SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING The Special Meeting of the Town Board of the Town of Cortlandville was held via Zoom video and telephone conferencing with Supervisor Williams presiding as permitted by the Executive Order of the Governor of the State of New York due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Members present: Supervisor, Thomas A. Williams Councilman, Jay E. Cobb Councilman, Jeffrey D. Guido Councilman, Theodore V. Testa Councilman, Douglas E. Withey Town Clerk, Kristin E. Rocco-Petrella Others present were: Town Attorney, John DelVecchio; Highway Sup’t., Larry Drach; Deputy Town Clerk, Abigail Albro; Supervisor’s Secretary, Patty O’Mara; Carol Simon; Annonymous attendee: “A.H.”; News Reporter: Colin Spencer from the Cortland Standard. Supervisor Williams: Alright, let’s see, it’s 4:03 p.m. Apple time and I’m going to call this meeting to order and let’s start with a Pledge of Allegiance there's one behind Doug there’s one over my shoulder here. All: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Supervisor Williams: This is a Special Meeting of the Town Board, Town of Cortlandville. And, why don't we start with a, just for the record so we have it recorded, a roll -call. Tom Williams, Supervisor. Councilman Withey: Doug Withey, Councilman. Councilman Testa: Ted Testa, Councilman. Councilman Cobb: Jay Cobb, Councilman. Councilman Guido: Jeff Guido, Councilman. Supervisor Williams: Thank you. Really what we're going to be talking about tonight, and the only thing we're going to be talking about, is the Rock 13… 13 Rocks, LLC. Which, as you know, is the name, I guess, of the operator... maybe not the corporation, but the operator of the former Cortlandville Sand and Gravel Company that has a sand and gravel mine in South Cortland, just North of the Best Western motel...hotel. It has been in operation for many, many years. It was started years ago by Roy Susskind and sold some years ago to an individual, name of Chris Henry. And, they applied, several years ago, to expand their operation. Both laterally, they have more land that they bought, they want to move laterally. As well as to dig into the ground. By digging into the ground they are going to be digging into our... to the aquifer, not our aquifer, but the aquifer that we all share. And their petition to the State DEC was to go 100 feet deep in that, at least 100 feet deep, into that aquifer. And if... I'm sure, I know Jay knows this, but I'm sure everybody else has seen the Suit-Kote operation in Polkville where they have this large clamshell digger working day, after day, after day, all day long bringing up scoops of gravel dumping it and doing whatever they do with it. That's sort of what would happen there. They petitioned the State… well, they were involved with us… our Planning Board early on. That went to the State on Monday. Issued a negative declaration for SEQR for their request to start that mine. That should have been sent to you, I think it was sent to everybody. And, before I forget it, I think, and this is a Special Meeting so we can work out of order here. I think somebody should make a motion to receive and file that document. It's a letter for the DEC and accompanying documents dated 1-20-2021 relative to the negative declarations for SEQR for the 13 Rocks, LLC. Councilman Withey: Tom, I’ll move to accept and file that article. Supervisor Williams: Thank you. Councilman Testa: I’ll second it. Supervisor Williams: Thank you Ted. All those in favor? Tom, aye. JANUARY 27, 2021 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE 2 Councilman Testa: Ted, aye. Councilman Withey: Doug, aye. Councilman Cobb: Jay, aye. Councilman Guido: Jeff, aye. Supervisor Williams: Thank you. Okay. Let it be recorded that it was a unanimous decision to receive and file that. Alright, so that's some of the early history of that. A couple weeks ago, actually a couple months ago, The Soil and Water people in the County… the Co unty Health Department and me, worked on a letter... a joint letter to be sent to the Region 7 people in Syracuse voicing our opposition to having this negative SEQR. Two or three weeks, fours weeks ago I guess… a month ago probably, I talked with Paul Heider and said, Paul would you be willing to involve yourself, involved the County in this? I know you have no water authority, you have no water system, but you certainly represent probably half the people in the County that uses that aquifer for a water source. And would you want to be involved? And, he said he would and we've been back and forth several times, and there is a draft letter that will be sent to the DEC with the signatures of: his signature, my signature, the Health Department... County Health Department, County Soil and Water Conservation folks, indicating their displeasure with this process and the potential danger to the water supply. We had a meeting on Monday, this past Monday, as sort of a strategy session to see what we could do, what steps we could take, that would be responsible and sort of toward the end of what we're looking for. I asked Doug Withey to be involved in that as a second rep from the Board. We couldn't have more because of the whole… Councilman Withey: Open Meetings Law? Supervisor Williams: Yea, the Open Meetings Law and all that stuff. So anyways it was Paul Heider, it was Mike Ryan from the Health Department, it was Amanda Barber and Kathy McGrath from the Soil and Water Conservation, it was Pat Reidy who I'm sure most of you know, and he is now a private citizen but he's very much involved in this, and very much willing to be involved in this. He was... and I don't know his exact title, but he was like a water quality expert for the Soil and Water people. So we had this meeting. There was a lot of talk back and forth and my takeaway from it was: A. Cortlandville was probably the most effective municipality. Our water system would probably be the most affected. And, I don't know, nobody has been able to tell me this. Doug, you might have an idea how fast the water moves, but if our well… our main production well, the well that we use for the majority of the water that we pump, is less than 1,000 feet from this operation. Councilman Withey: To answer your question on how fast it moves, it's been estimated between 8 and 12 feet a day, depending on the depth… there’s various depths out there. A reference point from the Smith-Corona site when they discovered the TCE spill there to the city wells was 13 months travel time. Supervisor Williams: Alright. Point I'm trying to make is, if a pollutant enters the water at 13 Rocks, whether it's petroleum or antifreeze or who knows what. If a pollutant, dangerous pollutant, enters the water there, it's a matter of days until it's potentially on our well site and probably months to go from there to the city's water well sites, it’s the same aquifer they're just further downstream. They’re down river from us. So it would effectively, unless there was some way to immediately mitigate it, it pretty much would effectively turn off the water to a substantial portion of the folks in the County. That varies from place to place, but our water system would be disabled and we would not have an easy fix to get more water. That, to me, seems to be a pretty traumatic possibility, pretty dangerous possibility, to just let it sit out there without doing something. Thus this meeting. I thought, why don't we get together as a Board and talk about our options, kick around suggestions, and see if we can come up with a game plan. And, I picked tonight because the County has their Legislative Meeting, their once monthly Legislating Meeting, tomorrow night. I thought it'd be nice if we could put a... at least to sketch a plan together. I can get it to the County tomorrow and they can talk about it tomorrow night. Thus, we’re here. Councilman Cobb: Sounds good. Supervisor Williams: Some of the action steps that were talked about, and Doug add or subtract to this as you see fit but, once the negative declaration is issued by the DEC there is a 30 -day comment period for public comment. I'm proposing that the Town of Cortlandville or the County or both send a letter to the DEC asking them to extend the comment period for an additional JANUARY 27, 2021 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE 3 60...90… whatever, pick a number so that we can adequately respond. There was talk about us sending a letter to the Susquehanna River Basin Authority, which is a federal or a National Organization, that really has a lot of clout when it comes to water in the Susquehanna River Basin, which is what this is. And, to reach out to them to see if they would support our position of... that this could be a... have a very detrimental effect on our water supply. We talked about the fact that this has not been overly reported, I guess, by the newspaper, by the radio stations. Probably because they didn't know much about it. I do know that in the past there were some editorials written, some articles written about the need to protect our water supply. But, the factual matter, as it stands now, hasn't been reported I’m guessing only because they really didn't know about it and we've been talking about... okay, how do we talk to our media folks to get information out. This is 25,000… this is half of the County. If you take all of the City and all the Town of Cortlandville and McGraw it gets to them after it goes past the City. 25,000 thousand people, that's half. Our County population is 49 to 50,000, so half in the County could be without water. Or certainly limited water. And we're thinking that's probably not such a good thing. What I'm looking for tonight, and to be very honest with you, what I'm looking for tonight is not necessarily a definitive answer. Not necessarily a, this is what we're going to do and how we're going to do it. What I'm looking for tonight is your feeling about moving ahead with pressing this issue however best we can do that. The reality is that this may cost some money. We may have to hire some high-priced/high-powered Environmental Attorneys. We may have to... One of the problems... And I'll tell you… One of the problems that the DEC mentioned in their deliberative process was that the applicant, the owner of the mine, provided them with a detailed, site-specific, engineering study of the water flow and where it comes from, and where it goes, and all that. We provided them with a more generic study done or more generic information by the USGS (United States Geological Service) that was not site specific. The DEC went on record with the County that they went with the more specific technical data because they thought it was more site specific. So, at the end of the day, we may decide that it's in our best interest to proceed with a site specific geological... hydrological engineering survey. That’ll cost money and if we could walk away from this meeting with the understanding that we are going to pursue this, we're going to pursue it with dispatch and strength, and we are going to pay for it, and is Marcia still on... Yes, Marcia’s still on. I asked her to reach out to her folks… her friends at the State Comptroller's Office and to run this by them to see if this qualifies... if there are these expenditures, if they would qualify for imbursement from the Water Reserve funds. She has done that, I had a call an hour ago or so from Marcia indicating that there were some technical things that had to be done, but she was pretty much assured that these would be legitimate expenses against our Water Reserve funds, which are very large. So, I don't want to spend that money, it's there for a purpose. Part of that purpose is to address emergency situations. Those funds are allowed to be there in case you have a massive water main break or a tank leaks or whatever you have the funds to jump in and fix it. In my mind, protecting our well is comparable to that. And, apparently the Comptroller's Office of the State agrees. Town Bookkeeper Marcia Hicks: May I make a suggestion? Supervisor Williams: Yupp. Town Bookkeeper Hicks: You would have to use the unexpended fund balanced and appropriate it. The reserved money is for improvement only. Supervisor Williams: You need to know that I speak of reserve funds as sort of all of those funds in the background. Town Bookkeeper Hicks: Yea, I just want to clarify. Supervisor Williams: Marcia has graciously volunteered to help with putting that together and with John DelVecchio, me, Megan to come up with a budget strategy as to how to handle this. So I guess what I'm saying is it looks as if there are some reserve funds available that we can tap into if we need to hire high-priced attorneys, high-priced engineering, high-priced whatever. Councilman Testa: I want to make a suggestion. Supervisor Williams: Yea. Councilman Testa: This is a no-brainer. You're going to affect 50% of the people in this County. I don't think we're going to have any problem at all shutting these people down. When you affect 50% that water is going to affect Cortland and Cortlandville. What else do you need? I don't see how this can even open the door for them. JANUARY 27, 2021 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE 4 Supervisor Williams: Well, I think what we need is a bully to reach out and smack the DEC, and I say that advisably. For them to say it's okay for mining operation to... as close as it is to a public water supply, to dig your hole in the ground at least a hundred feet deep and take out of it... the estimates that I've seen from the DEC is that they will mine over the next 15 years 10… get this… 10 million cubic yards of material. And, a cubic yard is 3 feet wide, by 3 feet, by 3 feet high that's a big chunk of dirt. And they will mine out of that hole in the ground, that they are going to create, 10 million of those 3x3x3 blocks. That is a huge amount of stuff. Huge. Councilman Withey: I’m sorry Tom. I didn’t mean to cut you off. Something you want to realize. I’ve.. ya know, back in 1990 I started a Cortland Water Fair, which is now the Cortland Water Festival, because of the TCE spill from Smith Corona. And, the public didn't know squat about what it takes to create a public water supply. So that was an educational thing that we were looking at. At that time we didn't know much about the aquifer. For years when I went in 1972 they thought all of the water was coming from the hill at the college. Which was nowhere even close cause you see the ponds at the bottom as well. That’s the water supply. It’s not where it originates from. Nancy Jarvis... Nancy Jarvis Mueller went to bat and got an EPA, a Federal Designation as Sole Source Aquifer. That's a title, just tells what it is. It's the only aquifer we’ve got. So if we screw it up, we’ve got no place else to go for water. You can relocate wells, but it’s going to cost you money for transportation, the wells, and stuff like that. And I don't know if… certainly the owner of the well... or of the gravel mine, I don't think cares. And it appears that the DEC doesn't really recognize the vulnerability that this puts forward. Now, I think John Proud said that where they’re excavating it's only about 700 feet from our production wells over at Lime Hollow, but whatever it is it's dangerously close. And, water’s going to run downhill. So it virtually runs from that gravel bed down to the college hill, which is solid bedrock, and goes around mostly to the South and down to the river. And so... and everyone knows I've been a strong advocate for protecting the aquifer and I still am, always will be, it’s near dear. But Tom, you’re right, it's half our population, in one form or another, that utilizes that water supply… of the local population. Now, you’ve got your transient population that goes through whoever that is traveling through moteling, stuff like that. So it’s a big hit. To correct something like that, I mean all water is treatable, but at what price? Do you spend it upfront and protect it? Or do you spend it after the fact and keep it up. And it's going to be extenuating cost and circumstance to clean it up after the fast so it’s best to be proactive than reactive. You’re going to save a ton of money being proactive. My question for John of whoever John is consulting with, what's the chances? Alright? This is one thing that we have to figure out as well. We can spend a million bucks or whatever and if there's no chance of us winning then that's something that we need to have a percentage of. What’s our odds? What's our chances? So, and... I don't know if we know that at this point. But, I’m all in favor of spending water funds to protect that water. I mean, that’s what it’s about. So, it's one of those things where it’s a catch - 22. Supervisor Williams: Thank you. I need to tell everybody that, along that line, at the end of this meeting, shortly I'm going to ask to go into Executive Session. Much of what we've dealt with, and what we potentially will deal with, could well involve litigation with either the operator or the State or somebody. And, that obviously should be held in the Executive Session at the end of this meeting. But right now, what I'm looking for is consensus to move ahead to do a couple of things, three things maybe. To identify, have Marcia and John and whomever identify, you know, the budgetary process and put that in place so that we don't have to scramble around at a later date. It’s all there. The budget lines are already established. Our auditor, the Comptroller, everybody’s happy with that and we can move forward. The other thing I think we need to do is put together a local... I don’t want to call it a steering committee, but some local folks and the names I have on my list are: Forrest Earl, and I haven’t talked with... I haven't talked with Forrest or Pat Snyder, but Forrest Earl, who is a licensed Geologist, he brings a technical piece to the table, and Pat Snyder who is a very well-recognized Environmental Attorney, and of course our very own John DelVecchio, Pat Reidy, who was involved for years and years and years with water in the County, working for the Soil and Water folks, he has volunteered. He said, he'll do it pro -bono. And then Amanda Barber and Kathy McGrath at Soil and Water they are right now... I've asked them to sort of put together all the documents. Pat Reidy is sending them all his emails, all the correspondence he has, they're going to put together the document package, create the timeline so when we need a document we can reach out and there it is. So, I'm asking initially for the Board to authorize me to go out to... as I say I’ve got everybody on board except Forrest Earl and Pat Snyder. There may be some fees there, I don't know what. But, I certainly think we should be willing to pay them. But, I need some authorization. And, then the third thing is to put together a sort of action plan of what we're going to do and who's going to do it. And, that's something that I think that John DelVecchio and I can work on. I can bring in people, maybe rely on Doug to do a piece of it and Jeff to do a piece of it. Have to be careful of the Open Meetings thing, but I think we can sort of tag team this and move the ball ahead. I’ve asked John DelVecchio and he can report later if he wants. But I’ve JANUARY 27, 2021 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE 5 asked John DelVecchio to look around for competent, focused, legal representation that... people or person that know the train when it comes to the DEC and this sort of thing. And, he can address that if he wants, but that's what I'm looking for. I don't think we need... even need a motion at this point. I think we need, this is where we're going. I would love to have an affirmative vote from the other four Board Members that we need to move ahead with this and that within reason you're giving me authority to do that and get back to you as things progress. And, that can be done by email. I don't know that we need to have a Special Meeting every time, but we certainly... I am more than willing and I think you know me well enough now that I send emails… I send a lot of emails and/or have Patty send them or whatever. So that's what I'm looking for. Councilman Cobb: Tom, I think it’s a great idea and whatever you got to do. If you want me to make a motion to that effect, that we authorize you to go ahead and set this deal up and move forward with this? I think it’s very important for the protection of our water aquifer, very much. Supervisor Williams: Thank you Jay. Councilman Testa: I’ll second that. Councilman Guido: I’ll second that. Supervisor Williams: Thank you Jeff or Ted. Either one second it. Any other discussion? Councilman Testa: Yes. I’d just like to say, I don’t... once this hits the papers, I don't think… I gotta tell you... this is going to be dead in the water. We're going to be looking at this as Heroes. No one out there who’s going to read this paper in the next couple of days and say, look, this is affecting 50% of this County with water, it's going to knock out the City and Cortlandville, that's not going to happen. I mean they're not going to be able to dig out there. I'm not concerned at all. And I hope we can hit the papers with it too. Supervisor Williams: Well, we have Colin Spencer with us tonight, our local reporter. So… Councilman Testa: This is dangerous, effects a lot of people. A lot of homes. Supervisor Williams: Certainly could. Alright, so we have a motion and a second. If there's no other discussion I’ll call to question, those in favor? Tom, aye. Councilman Testa: Ted, aye. Councilman Withey: Doug, aye. Councilman Cobb: Jay, aye. Councilman Guido: Jeff, aye. RESOLUTION #44 AUTHORIZE SUPERVISOR TO PROCEED WITH THE TOWN OF CORTLANDVILLE’S OPPOSITION TO THE MODIFICATION OF MINED LAND RECLAMATION PERMIT FOR CORTLANDVILLE SAND & GRAVEL MINE (ROUTE 13 ROCKS, LLC) AND THE NOTICE OF COMPLETE APPLICATION AND NEGATIVE DECLARATION FROM NEW YORK STATE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION (NYSDEC) Motion by Councilman Cobb Seconded by Councilman Testa VOTES: AYE – Williams, Cobb, Guido, Testa, Withey NAY – 0 ADOPTED BE IT RESOLVED, the Town Board does hereby authorize and direct the Supervisor to proceed with the Town of Cortlandville’s opposition to the Modification of Mined Land Reclamation Permit for Cortlandville Sand & Gravel Mine as submitted by Route 13 Rocks, LLC to the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (NYSDEC Permit #7-1122-00043; MLR #70436) including the Town’s opposition to the Negative Declaration and Notice of Complete Application from NYSDEC dated January 20, 2021. JANUARY 27, 2021 SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING PAGE 6 Supervisor Williams: Let the record show that was a unanimous affirmative vote. I have nothing else. Kristin, have I missed anything? Town Clerk Rocco-Petrella: I don't think so. Supervisor Williams: Patty, have I missed anything? Councilman Testa: She’s not on deck, I guess. Supervisor Williams: Yes she is… Supervisor’s Secretary Patty O'Mara: I don’t think so. Supervisor Williams: Alright. With no further business to come before the Board, Councilman Withey made a motion, seconded by Councilman Testa, to recess the meeting to an Executive Session to discuss potential litigation. All voting aye, the motion was carried. The meeting was recessed at 4:35 p.m. Councilman Withey made a motion, seconded by Councilman Testa, to adjourn the Executive Session and reconvene the Special Meeting. All voting aye the motion was carried. The Executive Session was adjourned at 4:47 p.m. Members of the public were invited to return to the meeting at this time. No further action was taken. Councilman Withey made a motion, seconded by Councilman Testa, to adjourn the Special Meeting. All voting aye, the motion was carried. The meeting was adjourned at 4:47 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Kristin E. Rocco-Petrella, RMC Town Clerk Town of Cortlandville *Note: The draft version of this meeting was submitted to the Town Board for their review on February 10, 2021. The final version of this meeting was approved as written at the Town Board meeti ng of February 17, 2021.