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HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-08-2003 TOWN OF GROTON MINUTES OF TOWN BOARD MEETING MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 8, 2003, AT 7:30 PM Those present: Glenn E. Morey, Supervisor Ellard L. Sovocool, Councilman Donald F. Scheffler, Councilman Sheldon C. Clark, Councilman Duane T. Randall II, Councilman Victoria Monty, Town Attorney Also present: Richard Case, George Senter, Liz Brennan, April Scheffler, Harold Benhardt, DeForest Hall, Ken Manzari, Tom Scheffler, Rod Mott, Scott Fenstermacher, Brian Klumpp, Liana Klumpp, Joanne Yunger, Thomas Billups, William Leaver, Jeff Snyder, Colleen Pierson, Frank Satterly, Jim Shurtleff, Skip Mott, Peg Palmer, Marie Murray, Floyd Ferris, reporter from Cortland Standard. MOVED by Councilman Randall, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, to approve the minutes of the August 12, 2003 meeting as presented. Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. General Fund Claim Numbers 235-260 of the in the amount of $24,129.04 were presented for audit. MOVED by Councilman Scheffler, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, to approve the General Bills for payment. Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. Highway Fund Claim Numbers 146-165 of the in the amount of $12,177.58 were presented for audit. MOVED by Councilman Clark, seconded by Councilman Randall, to approve the Highway Bills for payment. Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. Special Grant (HUD) Fund Claim Numbers 298-301of the in the amount of $23,670.18 were presented for audit. MOVED by Councilman Randall, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, to approve the HUD bills for payment. Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. Town Board Meeting Page 2 September 8, 2003 Supervisor Morey – Now we give the chance for the privilege of the floor. Anybody can come up. If you do come up, please speak into the mike your name, where you’re from. William Leaver – My name is Bill Leaver. I live on Spring Street Extension in Groton. Recently I applied for a variance to where I live for the change over of the use and I’m quite shocked to find out the brick wall I ran into. It really shocks me. I found out, which again, I didn’t own the building until a few years ago and they did put this in effect so I was unaware of it and didn’t have any idea. Can someone tell me the purpose of the L zone in our zoning code? Does anybody know what it is? That would be the next question. Supervisor Morey – L stands for low intensity, Bill. Mr. Leaver – Okay. Then the next question I have is they have a 2000 foot barrier around the Village of Groton. What’s the reason for that? Supervisor Morey – Where’s George? George R. Senter, Sr., Code Enforcement Officer – Right here. What low intensity was to maintain a higher density of single-family residences and that’s the purpose of the low intensity. They put it out 2000 feet. That was the decision of the Planning Board and there was a public hearing on the zoning when we changed it back in 1995 and nobody had a problem with it so it was accepted. And of course, Bill at that time didn’t own the property so he had no input on it. He had no reason to do it then. Mr. Leaver – Personally, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. I really don’t think that putting something around the Village of Groton and a building classification, they can’t expand a whole lot, like in business. What I ran into is, I wish you had a copy of this and I do see a little discrepancy in this and under one portion here it, what I’m trying to do is set myself up for a …..?….. use when I retire and where I live I have a great big barn…facility and it’s outside of, if anybody came down the road you wouldn’t know it was there unless they called you and told you. And none of my neighbors care or else I wouldn’t be trying to do it. But what I ran into that in the L zone there’s no new or used car sales, automobile repairs and service garages except gasoline service stations. And this zone, up here a little bit further, under retail sales, now retail sales you can do in the L zone. Up here it says retail sales of convenience goods such as groceries and gas stations. So up here I can put a gas station, which I don’t want to and I wouldn’t, but up here I could put a gas station in the L zone; down here I can’t but I don’t think I’m gonna, I wouldn’t put a gas station in anyway. George Senter - That’s with a site plan review for all of those. Mr. Leaver - Here’s what I’m saying is right here it says you can’t put any of these in.. George Senter – It says gas station in that zone, with a site plan review. Mr. Leaver – In any case, I did apply for a variance and when I got into the variance the worst stumbling block I ran into that I could not possibly overcome with any kind of honesty, you know, and so forth, and Lyle Raymond pointed it out to me and explained it to me that it would be a very difficult situation to even begin to think about. The only way I would even talk about it, a variance, I’d have to have a hardship. I could try to tell you people that but could I convince you? You know, that I need it up there because I’m hard up, I mean I don’t know. But I think Town Board Meeting Page 3 September 8, 2003 it’s pretty foolish, personally. I think it’s telling me what I can’t do with my land and I think it’s, you know, what I want to do I don’t see why I should have a problem, personally. I don’t know if we can do anything to change this stuff or what we’d have to do or what the procedure would be. George Senter – Well, I told Bill that there’s a committee right now doing the Comprehensive Plan and they’re going to send out surveys for zoning questions and answers and he’d like to get on the mailing list so he could have his input. Supervisor Morey – Um-hm. Mr. Leaver – The other thing if I get away from the 2000 feet, but I have 150 foot frontage beyond that 2000 foot, I don’t need a variance, I can just get a building permit. So, what the hell, does that make any sense, you know? I mean I could have it on the hill, up further, and what’s the difference? I’m not going to do that. Why would go through the cost? I have a building that I can store stuff in and actually, what they, was doing that, and I didn’t realize when I bought the property, what was it, two years ago, it does devalue the property. What good is it if all I can use this thing is for storage? And as far as anything else, it’s right next to the gravel pit, I mean, we listen to Town trucks all winter long getting salt and everything else, so if you think I live in a quiet neighborhood it is quiet except in the wintertime. You got…and nobody cares, you know, but, in any case, when I submitted my money and so forth, the application, which I ended up doing, what do you call that, Planning Board, site review first, actually incorrect. That’s last. But I did pay 30 bucks for that and once I got into the variance and I sure as heck can’t convince Mr. Raymond that I’m a hardship case, so I said that’s a stumbling block I sure won’t get past. And I, so, what I want to do is I’m going to give you a letter saying I want my money back for that $30 I wasted in the third item I should have done. The other thing is, I wouldn’t mind talking about, down there on Cayuga Street, on 38, what happened to Lewis when he wanted to put an addition on his house, he had to prove hardship. I can’t imagine why anybody here would care what he did down there. I can’t imagine you people would care what I do as long as it’s, you know, decent. But he had to go through tons and tons of paperwork, which was a nightmare, for him I’m sure. I’ve not talked to him personally, but anyway, I guess when they did this, which nobody knew he was going to do anything, so who would complain? But anyway, on this side of the road you said it was zoned so he couldn’t put an addition on his house and the other side it wasn’t and the Town of Groton realized it was a mistake and went and changed it? George Senter – Yes, they did. Mr. Leaver – So, that’s what I’m looking for, personally, to see if you guys can do something in this, I think it’s a hardship, personally, that I can’t do …?...with the land. I’m not hard up but however, you know, you know, I feel I have a facility and I should be able to use it. Whether I do or not, who knows, you know? But I, you obviously recognized the mistake you made in the Lewis case after he went through a lot of grief… Supervisor Morey – Bill, the building codes were reviewed in 1995 and we have, we have found out a couple of mistakes that we are going to change, but, and this should be corrected too, so. Mr. Leaver – Okay, one thing I would like, and I don’t need it tonight, but maybe sending in the mail the names of all the committees on both sides of the Village and Town, just so I know who they are because I wouldn’t mind talking to them just for my input, you know? But the only Town Board Meeting Page 4 September 8, 2003 other thing I see on here, I see in McLean you’ve got some around there. Did this come about because of Sirens over there? You know that was a mistake that…. Supervisor Morey – No. No. The L designation for your area is because of the close proximity of all the houses and they wanted to protect all the neighbors. Mr. Leaver – The only other question I have is if Village of Groton likes it or not, I don’t know, but don’t matter. Thank you. Supervisor Morey – Thanks Bill. Anyone else? Bob? Harold (Bob) Bernhardt – I’m Bob Bernhardt. I live on West Groton Road. I’ve got a few questions for you. I’ve noticed in the Shopper there’s some ads in there for, political ads, sponsored by the Town Board, Planning Board. I was under the impression that anything taken up before the Town Board, there had to be a meeting under the Open Meeting Laws. And if you look in the Town Law Manual, that’s what it says there too. It talks about Political Meetings. Now, I’ve researched this. There’s no record of a meeting. There’s no record that anybody ever called for a meeting. Who authorized someone to put this in the paper? I went to check on it and find out who it was, not authorized, but who put it in the paper. Somebody from the Town Board had to authorize it. Everybody’s innocent? How can someone put something in the paper saying I’m sponsored by the Town Board and the Planning Board if nobody authorized them or told them that they were? I would think this Town Board would be appalled at this, that they’d do something about it. Nobody knows anything about it, huh? Supervisor Morey – Certainly, we all authorized it, Bob. Mr. Bernhardt – What? Supervisor Morey – We all authorized it as a group. Mr. Bernhardt – But you had to have a meeting. That’s where you’re wrong, see, here’s where you’re wrong. As a group you don’t have a right to do this. Supervisor Morey – Right. Mr. Bernhardt – Individually, you have a right to do it. Supervisor Morey – Correct. And that’s… Mr. Bernhardt – You don’t say it’s the Town Board. That’s where the whole thing went wrong. As a group, doing this, you’re wrong. Now, it’s too late to do anything about it, except to have you all resign. Hey, the Governor of California, he had to resign. The Mayor of Syracuse went to jail. I think this is terrible, and some of you people have been on this board for a long time, to do something like this. How much faith should I have in an action taken by the Board if that’s the kind of thing you guys are going to do? I’ve brow-beat you enough now, but if you look in the Town Law Manual, right in the front, political caucuses, and the Open Meetings Law is violated, what constitutes violation of the law. That’s what you guys did. Well, that’s all I have to say on that. I, I’m disappointed in you. I really am. If you have a question, you have an attorney representing you here, you could ask her. Any questions? Town Board Meeting Page 5 September 8, 2003 Supervisor Morey – No. Mr. Bernhardt – Thanks. Supervisor Morey – Thank you. Anyone else? Ken Manzari – For anybody who don’t know me, I’m Ken Manzari from Genoa. I’ve worked for Atlantic Inland for 3 ½ years. I’ve been in the area for 61 years, in Genoa. I understand through the grapevine, I had 3 or 4 phone calls in the last 4 or 5 days, from contractors very concerned about Groton’s going to go with one inspection agency. I’ve been, maybe 12, 15 inspections a year in Groton. I don’t know of any problems. And last year I did a thousand inspections and I don’t know that I had a complaint anywheres in 6 or 7 counties. I’d just like the option, if you’re going to do something, it should be offered to all inspection agencies. And I’m not saying that there should be just one. There should be more than one and I think according to law it’s unconstitutional to have just one agency. And I would like the option of being here. I don’t know that anybody’s ever had a problem with my inspections here and if there is, I’ve never known about it. If you’re going to make a decision, I would suggest that you wait 30 days. You’ve got a system that’s been working. I know there’s some problems with New York Board in the area. They do have a guy from Waterloo coming down and one from Brooktondale and I think there’s one out of Cortland. And I have heard some problems so I’ve picked up some business by it. They haven’t been offering good service. And I don’t work 9 to 5, I work from 4, 5 o’clock in the morning till 10 o’clock at night if that’s what it takes. I guess that’s about all I got, if you have any questions. Supervisor Morey – All right. Ken, basically what we wanted to do was have like Floyd Ferris here to educate us what electrical inspection are. We know it has to be an advertised position and basically, we’re moving into budget season right now and we just wanted to learn a little bit more about it and Floyd was nice enough to come up and talk to us about it, so. Mr. Manzari – Well, I heard it through the grapevine. 3 or 4 contractors called me, why are they going to have one inspection agency, we can’t……… Supervisor Morey – We haven’t decided that yet. All right? And Floyd knows that we haven’t decided it yet, so. Mr. Manzari – All right. Thank you. Supervisor Morey – Thank you, Ken. Anyone else? If not, we’re moving on to our monthly reports and miscellaneous items. Liz, can you please come? Monthly Reports: Elizabeth Brennan, Bookkeeper/Deputy Highway Superintendent – Okay, you’ve got your listing of revenues and expenditures and the bank balances. We do have a few transfers to make. Town Board Meeting Page 6 September 8, 2003 RESOLUTION #60 – BUDGET TRANSFERS MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey RESOLVED, that the Town Board does hereby approve the following budget transfers: General Fund – Town Wide: From: Contingency A1990.4…………………………....$1,628.79 To: Town Clerk, Equipment A1410.2.…………………..763.00 Social Services, Day Care A16210.41………………865.79 Supervisor Morey – Anything else for Liz? Liz Brennan – The audit is done. We’ll be getting that report next month or the month after. They are still finishing up the Court, but as far as my books, they’re all finished with that. Okay? Supervisor Morey – You’re going to stay until after Rick aren’t you? Liz Brennan – Um-hm. Supervisor Morey – Okay. George? George R. Senter, Sr., Code Enforcement Officer – We had 10 building permits issued in the month of August. There’s no houses, no manufactured house, which are mobile homes, and there’s 10 other than that like porches, additions, roofs, garages and that sort of thing. I issued 6 C of Os, Certificates of Occupancy or letters of Completion and we’ve got one LSI to do for August. It didn’t get done in August but I’ve been talking to the person and we’re going to set up a time to do that. I don’t operate that as a fiscal matter so when I get it done I get it done, probably this month. That’s all I have. Any questions? Supervisor Morey – Okay. Yup. You gonna stay for a minute for Floyd Ferris? George Senter – Okay. Supervisor Morey – Okay, thanks. Rick? Richard C. Case, Jr., Highway Superintendent – As everyone knows we are, the Highway Department is dedicated to paving and resurfacing at the present time. With the assistance of the Village, the Town of Caroline, the Town of Dryden, we’re moving forward. Other than that, McLean got that windstorm and we got rained out Thursday, Wednesday, Thursday, so that’s pretty well cleaned up. We still have some small stuff to take care of but we’ll get to it when th time allows. The next thing I have for Board action is on August 28 we had the bid opening for the 2003 or newer wheel loader. Available for train-in was the Cat loader. We had 3 bidders. We had 7 vendors pick up specifications but there were 3 bidders that submitted bids. The three bidders who submitted bids was: S.C. Hansen, Inc., of Horseheads, Anderson Equipment of Town Board Meeting Page 7 September 8, 2003 Endicott, and Syracuse Supply. I went over the specifications and ruled out Syracuse Supply because they bid a 2003 model and they were also the high bidders. S.C. Hansen and Anderson Equipment both bid 2004 models. Then I went farther into the specs. The Komatsu, which is the Anderson machine, they exceeded the engine specifications and Case came up short. The hydraulic system in the Komatsu exceeded and the Case came up short. Transmission was also specified a 4-speed transmission and Case didn’t have that and Komatsu had a 4-speed hydrostatic which is new, state of the art. Axle oscillation, rear axles in the Case will only go 24 degrees, Komatsu goes 30, which means when you’re on rough terrain you’re going to get a more stable piece of machinery. I asked for dual controls, which is hoist and bucket control. The reason I did that is everybody in our shop runs this machine and rather than have the joystick, I’d rather have 2 levers so when they go of one they know what they’re doing. Case didn’t have that. They no longer provided it. And Komatsu has a dual piloted system with the forward and reverse and the shifters are on these levers so that they don’t have to take their hands off of the steering wheel to run the shift ..?.. Case has one door; Komatsu has two. The parking brake is, on the Case, is outside; it’s a drum that needs, for adjustment you can get to it to adjust it but it’s still exposed to the weather. The Komatsu is within the transmission and it’s a wet disc; supposedly maintenance-free. Then we got to the static tipping weight. Case has 21,066 pounds in their tipping and the Komatsu went to 27,585 pounds, which is considerable. We’re talking tons there. So, my recommendation, as you see on the sheet that I handed you with the bids, is to go with Anderson Equipment with $81,360 as compared to Hanson who was $80,678. For a difference of $682 I think we’re gaining a lot more machine. So, it’s my summation that I recommend that we award the bid to Anderson Equipment in option 2. Supervisor Morey – Questions? Louie? Councilman Sovocool – No. You think Anderson is going to be the best bet for you? Richard Case – I think it’s a safer machine. It’s a lower center of gravity and I think it’s a better constructed piece of machinery. Councilman Sovocool – Well, for that price, I guess we’ll go with it. Supervisor Morey – Don? Councilman Scheffler – Parts availability, what do you think? Richard Case – Well, in the bid specs, if you remember the ones I had, to make sure that the people bidding are within 65 miles of Groton and they have their own parts service and that they are also capable of rebuilding or maintaining any of the components that are put on the piece of machinery in their shop. So they have to be factory authorized. They’ve done us real well thus far. Remember the Ingersoll roller that we purchased 6 years ago, they’ve done us well on that. Councilman Scheffler – It’s fine with me. Supervisor Morey – Tyke? Councilman Randall – I trust you judgment, Rick, so. Councilman Clark – I’m all set with it. Town Board Meeting Page 8 September 8, 2003 Supervisor Morey – Liz? Richard Case – Anybody else got any questions? There’s some equipment people in here. I’m open to suggestions. Supervisor Morey – How do we pay for it? Richard Case – The money was budgeted last year. We set aside 90…… Liz Brennan - $92,604. Richard Case – 92 and this is at 81,360. So, the money is in the equipment account and has all ready been budgeted. Liz Brennan – We set it as an encumbrance from last year. Supervisor Morey – Okay. When’s the delivery? Richard Case – Anderson was 110 days. Supervisor Morey – You’ll have the use of the other front-end loader until then. Richard Case – We’ll keep ours until it shows up. Personally, I don’t care if gets here till April. We’ll run the Cat through the winter. Supervisor Morey – Okay. I’ll entertain a motion to accept the Anderson Equipment Company. RESOLUTION #61 – ACCEPT BID FOR WHEEL LOADER MOVED by Councilman Randall, seconded by Councilman Clark Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey RESOLVED, that the Town Board does hereby accept the bid for a new 2004 Komatsu W A 320-5 wheel loader from Anderson Equipment Company of Endicott, New York, with trade-in of the Town of Groton’s 1989 936E Cat wheel loader, for a net price of $81,360. Supervisor Morey – Any other questions for Rick? April? April L. Scheffler, Town Clerk/Tax Collector – (Submitted her monthly report for the Board’s review.) I have a question for Don. Last month you mentioned that the Youth Committee was working on a signboard. Councilman Scheffler – Yup. Clerk Scheffler – Was that for the school or community or…. Town Board Meeting Page 9 September 8, 2003 Councilman Scheffler – Well it was specifically to advertise recreation events. I don’t think anything has really been done about it yet. Clerk Scheffler – Well, the GBA is working on a plan too. They are planning on having a kiosk somewhere on Main Street with brochures and a signboard. The Rotary has expressed an interest and they have said they would maintain it and update it. And since the GBA is trying to get all the groups together and work on the same things, we were wondering if this is something that your group would want to work with us on that? Councilman Scheffler – Yup. th Clerk Scheffler – We have set up a meeting with the Rotary on September 15 at 7:00 PM and if some of your people could come to that we could all get together and talk about it. If some of the Town Board members are interested in it too, that would be great. Councilman Scheffler – I think Chuck was looking into getting one of these portable signs was all. Clerk Scheffler – Well, this is going to be a central kiosk with a roof over it and a place for brochures and…. Councilman Scheffler – Someplace people can find out what’s going on. Clerk Scheffler – Yes. Councilman Scheffler – Yeah, we’ll see if we can work something out together on it because I know we haven’t actually done anything about it. Clerk Scheffler – I tried to email Marsha Larsen, but that came back with the address that was on the cover of the little booklet that you had. Councilman Scheffler – Yeah, that’s in my report tonight. We’ve got a problem. Clerk Scheffler – Okay. The other thing that I have is that Lisa has successfully completed her three month probationary period.Lisa has shown herself to be extremely dependable, always here early and staying until the work is done. She has proven to be trustworthy and responsible when handling money and important Town records and is always great with the customers. I feel she is just what we need in a Deputy Clerk and would like to request a 50-cent raise for her at this time. And that’s all I have. Supervisor Morey – Okay. RESOLUTION #62 – APPROVE RAISE FOR LISA RONGO MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Scheffler Ayes - Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey RESOLVED, that the Town Board does hereby approve a 50-cent raise for Lisa Rongo, Deputy Town Clerk. Town Board Meeting Page 10 September 8, 2003 Supervisor Morey – Okay, thank you. Vicki? Victoria Monty, Town Attorney – I would like to get the Board’s permission to send out two letters regarding collections, essentially one being the Diversified matter and the other is the Fingerlakes Aquaculture, which April sent me the information on. So, I have the numbers, actually left them on my secretary’s desk because I’m anticipating that you will give me the go- ahead regarding these. Essentially, if you recall the letters that we sent out previously for some of the delinquent HUD accounts, I guess there was one, it will be similar to that. Supervisor Morey – All in favor? It doesn’t have to be a resolution. Attorney Monty – I just wanted to get….. Councilman Sovocool – Yeah, I’m in favor. Councilman Scheffler – Yup, go ahead. Supervisor Morey – Thank you, Vicki. Clerk Scheffler – Vicki, do you want updated bills from me to go with that because we should add interest to date? Attorney Monty – Okay. Clerk Scheffler – Okay, I’ll get those ready for you. Attorney Monty – And I know also April sent me an email regarding the SPCA contracts. I guess they’ve sent you correspondence wanting you to renew and there are, of course, issues that we want to… Supervisor Morey – Correct. Attorney Monty – I don’t know if you mainly want me to work with April on that because she, it seems, has more contact with the SPCA and is very familiar with what the problems are …. Supervisor Morey – That’s fine. Can I have a copy of the contract though too? I’d like to make a couple comments on it too. Attorney Monty – Okay. Supervisor Morey – All right. Anything else, Vicki? Attorney Monty – I don’t believe so unless you have questions for me. Councilman Sovocool – I have none. Supervisor Morey – Okay. Town Court, Peg’s here. Do you have anything to add to the monthly report that the Judges…….all righty. Margaret Palmer, Court Clerk – Well, I’ve got one thing. Our workload has doubled. Town Board Meeting Page 11 September 8, 2003 Supervisor Morey – Great. Don? Councilman Donald Scheffler, as Recreation Coordinator – The Joint Recreation Committee nd met September 2 2003 for a monthly meeting. Marsha Larsen reported on the successes and failures of the summer programs and her plans for improvements for summer programs. A lot of progress has been made in administration of programs such as lifeguard training and communication of job expectations and responsibilities for the summer workers. This, we feel, will provide a better atmosphere in the future for both the workers and the participants. An improvement for next year’s summer concert series is the availability of bathroom facilities and it was requested that we open the Town Hall restrooms for the evening or get port-a-johns. And I assured the committee that we probably can do something for next year, either maybe block off the hallway or put port-a-johns out back or something. But part of the problem is accessibility for wheelchairs or senior citizens. So the committee kind of requested if, you know, they wanted to ask if they could use these bathrooms. I thought within a year we should be able to work something out. I will be addressing the Groton School Board at the next meeting, which is nd Monday, September 22 with some concerns we have over our office space at the school, that is unless the issues have been rectified before then. The School Board representative did not attend our meeting, so we didn’t get to talk to her about it. The skate park on Peru Road, which is now a Village park, has now been disassembled and stored by the Village due to the failure of the participants to follow the rules. And hopefully that can be worked out by spring and the kids can have their park back. And that’s all I have. Supervisor Morey – All right, thank you. Any questions for Don? Cortland Standard Reporter – I don’t know if I’m allowed to ask questions. When you say that the skate park has been disassembled because they didn’t follow the rules, what were they doing? Councilman Scheffler – Ah, specifically they weren’t wearing their helmets. Supervisor Morey – Tonight we have a presentation from Floyd Ferris, the electrical inspector, and the possibilities of the Town of Groton, where is Floyd, oh, there you are. We invited Floyd up here just to educate us about what a specific electrical inspector is. So, Floyd? Floyd Ferris – My name is Floyd Ferris. I live in Lansing. I’ve been an electrical inspector for 30 years. I worked for the New York Board of Fire Underwriters for 29 of those years and more recently I’m working for the Town of Lansing as the town electrical inspector and the Village of Groton as the village electrical inspector, municipal inspector. What’s been going on in New York State in the last few years is alarming. There’s approximately 15 inspection agencies operating throughout the State and many towns have adopted ordinances limiting the number agencies to 2, 3 or 1. And as Mr. Manzari stated there may be a legal problem with that. It has been challenged in the courts numerous times. So what many municipalities have been doing is hiring their own electrical inspector and developing a fee schedule and charging a fee to the applicant and doing the work themselves and producing the electrical certificates themselves as an agent or a deputy of the building inspector. In the Town of Lansing it has been a resounding success. The City of Ithaca did it a couple of years ago; the Town of Fabius, Pompey, Salina, Cicero; many towns with the problems of competing electrical inspectors have decided to do these electrical inspections on their own. The problem is out there right now there’s numerous inspectors available to the public and what goes on is if one inspector fails my job I’ll just call another inspector that will pass it. And what happens in that case is in my letter was that the Town Board Meeting Page 12 September 8, 2003 quality of workmanship deteriorates. Inspectors, even the best inspectors, will accept low standard installations just to keep a customer. In all best interest he’s feeling he’s doing the best for his company but he’s not really doing the best for the customer or the people who are going to be using the building or are going to be occupying the building. A good quality inspection is done in accordance to the National Electric Code and there are some guidelines that the inspector can use and it gives him some leeway in some instances but there’s blatant violations out in the areas where there’s competition introduced that’s being overlooked. And, so like I say, the only answer is for the municipality to do their own inspections. It would be no different if you took George Senter and had 10 building inspectors our there doing your town. The public would simply dial the telephone until they found a building inspector that would pass an installation. Electrical wiring is the most important aspect of the building. It’s the most serious safety aspect. It’s the only thing that can burn it down or kill someone. I think George would agree with me on that. I’m here to answer any question you might have or the public might have. Supervisor Morey – How much does it cost for the inspection? Mr. Ferris – That depends. If it’s, the minimum fee inspection in the Town of Lansing and the Town of Groton has adopted a $55 fee. That’s for a, that encompasses quite a lot of inspection. That would be a service, a small addition, a mobile home service, maybe a basement wiring, swimming pool, it encompasses a swimming pool installation. It graduates up and the way the Town of Lansing and Village of Groton has structured their fees is on a per device basis. The more electrical wiring in the installation, the higher the fee goes. We produced a fee schedule that is open to the public. Everybody who wants to know how much a fee is going to be they simply pick up a fee schedule and they can ascertain what it’s going to cost right from that before they even get started. But a medium home, a 1,500 square foot home, between a 1,500 and a 2,000 square foot home, the fee would run around, between $125 to $150. It all depends on the amount of wiring being installed. With electric heat, if they were using electric heat, which not much of that is being installed out in the Town now, in the Village there is, but electric heat, electric water heaters, electric ranges, all that, that all ads up in the fee structure. The amount of trips has no bearing on the fee. Now, my colleague that just left, I wish he’d stayed because he could have answered some of these questions, but his agency that he works for charges by the trip. They have a minimum fee and then if it doesn’t pass inspection or if he has to return for a second inspection, they have a per trip fee. That becomes a little redundant because I think the public deserves service from a service employee, so to me to make 3 or 4 trips to a job is not unreasonable. Supervisor Morey – Okay. If we did hire an individual we’d have to come up with a Town inspection fee schedule. Mr. Ferris – That’s right. Supervisor Morey – Okay. All right. Mr. Ferris – You’d have to develop an application for an inspection, a power permit that goes to the power company and a defect notice if there was a violation on the job. The Village of Groton adopted the Town of Lansing’s fee schedule and application. The simply put their letterhead on top of the application. They’re all pretty standardized. It wasn’t much of a chore. Supervisor Morey – Okay. Any questions? Town Board Meeting Page 13 September 8, 2003 Councilman Sovocool – Floyd, do you do the Village of Groton now? Mr. Ferris – Yes, sir. Councilman Sovocool – You’re the only one that does it? Mr. Ferris – Yes, sir. Yes, I’m employed by the Village. Councilman Sovocool – So, no other inspector can come in and do the, do the Village? Mr. Ferris – No. They could. An individual could hire a private inspector to come and do an inspection on his installation, but if that installation is part of a building permit issued by George I would still, myself, have to do an inspection also on it. Councilman Sovocool – So, he’d have to pay twice? Mr. Ferris – Yes. Councilman Sovocool – Okay. George Senter – The Village of Groton had passed an ordinance several years ago to only do the New York Board of Fire Underwriters as building inspectors for the Village. So, Floyd has actually stepped into something that was already existing. Only difference is it’s not the Board of Fire Underwriters but they had to pass a resolution to do that. Mr. Ferris – Yeah, the Village had an ordinance, a written ordinance, that only recognized the New York Board of Fire Underwriters as an inspection agency and the way things are going, the way the courts are, these ordinances are being challenged in the courts, the Village decided it would be in their own best interest to hire their own municipal inspector and get out of the inspection agency…?… Supervisor Morey – Okay. Don? Councilman Scheffler – I guess I don’t have any questions right now. Think it over. Supervisor Morey – Tyke? Councilman Randall – Who would have to carry the insurance. Would we, it seems to me like it’d be put it more on the township’s back than it would, than it is at the present time if you did this. Mr. Ferris – That was paramount in the Town of Lansing and the Village of Groton. It turned out that the insurance that the Code Enforcement Officer is under also covers an electrical inspection. So, and correct me if I’m wrong, Jimmy, there was no additional expense ….. As an electrical inspector I would be working for the public, or he would be working for the public, and he would be reporting to George, the Code Enforcement Officer. Any enforcement issues would be up to the Code Enforcement Officer to enforce. Say, for instance, the municipal inspector went out and did an electrical inspection and discovered that there was code violations and reported them to the applicant or, again, the owner, it’s up to George, the Code Enforcement Officer, to enforce those corrections to be made. It would not be up to the electrical inspector. Town Board Meeting Page 14 September 8, 2003 It’s always, George’s, the Code Enforcement Officer’s, duty to enforce the New York State Building Construction Code and the electric code falls under that office. Incidentally the New York State Building Construction Code has its own electric code in it now, which has been adopted from the 1999 National Electric Code and that’s what the State of New York recognizes at this time is the 1999 edition of the National Electric Code. There’s been an addition since then, in 2002, which cannot be enforced at this time until the State adopts it. Councilman Randall – Are you having trouble with this now, George? I mean, is there people coming in inspecting wiring and you don’t feel that it’s…. George Senter – Not that I’m aware of. Councilman Randall – Okay. Mr. Ferris – There’s electrical inspections going on in the Town right now George don’t know about. He will never know about them. There’s service change-overs…. George Senter – I don’t get any kind of report on that or any kind of inspection report…… Mr. Ferris – With this method George would know of every installation that’s being inspected. Right now…..they’re coming in and doing inspections whether there’s a building permit or not and George would never know. It’s going on right now. Councilman Randall – I just personally have a problem with it, the competition end of it. I think competition keeps everybody honest and I think you, by appointing one person we’re going to cut that out. I’ve worked, I’ve worked with you in the past. I’ve also worked with Butch. I’ve, on this end of it and, you know, I had no complaint of anything you guys did, but I, I think number one that eventually it will police itself out. It’s no different than contractors, I think in a way. You know, you have a lot of people come in because there’s a market there and they sort of weed themselves out, the fly-by-nighters and whatnot, eventually, you know, that’s how, I think that’s how it works. Mr. Ferris – The problem with that scenario is the fact that things are getting done wrong during that period of time when things are getting weeded out and somebody could get hurt or a property could be lost. There’s no room for error on an electrical inspection, no room at all, not one inch. It’s too dangerous. Electricity is too dangerous for those amateurs out there that need to be guided to get the thing done right and according to code and there’s inspectors out that that claim to be inspectors, that are not certified, that have never been an electrician in their life. They’re operating without….?…right now. Never held a screwdriver. With probably, I can dare say, many of them don’t even have a code book. There’s electricians in this town that have more knowledge of the code than the inspectors who’s inspecting it. That’s the problem. Supervisor Morey – Okay. Sheldon? All right. Thank you very much for coming. We appreciate it. Okay. George asked the ZBA to provide an interpretation on campgrounds. Supposedly the campground definition is not adequate for you? George Senter – There is none. Town Board Meeting Page 15 September 8, 2003 Supervisor Morey – Okay. There is none. And he also wrote a letter to the counsel’s office to ask if their interpretation of the campground definition be good. Letter was written to Lyle asking permission to investigate a little bit further. Vicki, what…..? Attorney Monty – I don’t believe that we……?….. Supervisor Morey – All right, so Lyle’s looking for information whether he can do that or not. Is this imperative that we get a definition, George? George Senter – Well, it has come up and I have nothing to go by….(not using microphone). Supervisor Morey – All right. We’re looking for …?.. for Vicki to carry on to find out about the definition of campgrounds. George Senter – Lyle’s definition…..?…. do you have a copy of that? Attorney Monty - …..? … I know that, and Fran was the one that wrote that letter to Lyle and he reviewed it and….thought that it was adequate, the definition that Lyle had sent so I don’t know if you want to research it more. Supervisor Morey – All right. But it says for 90 days or more. My question is do we have to have a timeframe in there? George Senter – I think that’s if you have 5 or more or more than 5. That’s kind of awkward. There’s campgrounds, like Yellow Lantern,……live there year-round. Around here we have a place on Locke Road where there’s 2 sitting out right now. Supervisor Morey – May question is do we have to limit the timeframe? George Senter – For the mobile homes or the trailers or the….? Supervisor Morey – For the campground. George Senter – Yeah…………do they have to move the campers out or can they move out and leave them sitting there? I think that’s a part of the definition. Supervisor Morey – Well…. George Senter – And his just sits there all winter. I think it has and he doesn’t move it. Lyle’s definition calls for more than 5, so this guy’s got 2, so based on the definition Lyle came up with he’s…….(not using microphone)……. Supervisor Morey – Board? Louie? Councilman Sovocool – Well, if there’s no definition I think we ought to have something. George Senter – This could be something for the Planning Board and this committee that’s working on…..they’re going to look into the zoning regulations and everything so maybe it’s something they can look at. And Lyle’s on that committee…….. Town Board Meeting Page 16 September 8, 2003 Supervisor Morey – Okay, either way we can be ahead of ourselves then in other words. George Senter – Well, you know, if you do anything with that, it takes a local law to do it……(not using microphone)…. Supervisor Morey – Okay. What do you want to do, Louie? Keep the definition as is, what Lyle came up with or do you want….? Councilman Sovocool – I don’t know what the definition he come up with. Supervisor Morey – Should have had a copy of it all. “Any parcel or tract of land including buildings, cabins, tents, recreation vehicles or other structures under the control of any person where five or more campsites are available for temporary or seasonal overnight occupancy for 90 days or more.” Councilman Sovocool – Yeah, I didn’t get that. I didn’t get a copy of that. Supervisor Morey – Okay. Councilman Scheffler – I don’t know what happened to it. Did we get it a month ago? Councilman Sovocool – All I’ve got here is something that says Lyle’s definition is acceptable. Sounds all right. Five is a little too many I think. I agree with George on that. Councilman Scheffler – I like Lyle’s definition. I’m wondering about the number 5 is all. It does sound like it’s getting fairly big. I do agree that people need to be allowed to have their family or friends come in for a week or two and that should be fine but that’s in Lyle’s definition too. George Senter – Is the Health Department input in that, Don, also? I forget………… Councilman Scheffler – I didn’t see it on it. George Senter – If not, then I think that should be in there also. Councilman Scheffler – If it’s called a campground I think there are Health Department rules on it. George Senter – We need to know what that is too. Supervisor Morey – Tyke? Councilman Randall – I think Lyle’s definition’s good but I really think that we certainly need to have some more research in it, obviously, because I think we’re affecting more and we have to make sure it’s right the first time, so. Supervisor Morey – Sounds good. Sheldon? Councilman Clark – I feel the same way. I wish we could have Council help us and the Planning Board ought to be involved. Town Board Meeting Page 17 September 8, 2003 Supervisor Morey – All right. Vicki can you look into the definition and the 5 and more and the 90 days or more we have the question on? Thank you. All right. Today the schedule for the th 2004 budgets schedule. I came up with it. The first one will be this Saturday, September 13 at th 8:30 to 9:30 AM. I hope Thursday, September 18 at 7:00 PM the Highway employees can th come and talk to us. Saturday, September 20 at 8:30 AM, budget meeting. Tuesday, rdth September 23, Highway Superintendent, Town Clerk, and Court and Thursday, September 25 th ant 7:00 PM and Saturday, if needed, September 27, 8:30 AM. They are tentative. The first th meeting on September 13, we’re going to talk a little bit about the budget, give some handouts for the budget, special requests that we have had, such as the Food Net, agricultural exemptions, and that’s it. Does that work with everybody? All right, moving on to discussion on agricultural assessments. In July Danny Carey asked the Board to investigate fire protection tax exemptions. It was my understanding fire protection was not eligible for tax exemptions under fire districts but the fire protection districts, but they were available under fire districts. However I asked our Counsel’s office to look into that and Vicki found out that they are allowed in a fire protection district under Section 305 of the Agriculture Markets Law and also Section 306 in the agricultural lands outside of districts. Vicki what is the difference between outside districts? What’s that? Attorney Monty - …..(could not hear her speaking)….. It’s just how it’s zoned, whether it’s an agricultural district………….it’s just how they’ve zoned it……..?………. Supervisor Morey – Okay. All right. Okay. What I’m looking for from the Board is permission to go one step further to look at it and make a presentation to you during the budget hearings and to tell you what impact is going to be taxes as well as the total budget. Councilman Sovocool – Yeah, I think we better find out what the impact’s going to do before we…… Several people say yes. Supervisor Morey – If nothing else the announcements, this one’s premature, I guess it’s a little late but…. Announcements: th Reception for Gary Smith, tonight, September 8 , 6:30 to 7:30 PM th McLean Community Council Committee Meeting, September 17 at 7:30 PM at the McLean Fire Hall th Planning Board Meeting, September 18, 7:30 PM There being no further business, Councilman Sovocool moved to adjourn, seconded by Councilman Scheffler, at 8:38 PM. Unanimous. April L. Scheffler Town Clerk