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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2-8-2000 (B) MINUTES OF TOWN BOARD MEETING TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 8, 2000 AT 7:30 PM Those present: Glenn E. Morey, Supervisor Ellard L. Sovocool, Councilman Donald F. Scheffler, Councilman Sheldon C. Clark, Councilman Duane T. Randall, II, Councilman Also present: Chris Dempsey, George Totman, Mark Gunn, Liz Brennan, April Scheffler, Lester Coit, Valeria Coggin, Angela Leddy, Lee Shurtleff, Teresa Robinson, Erma Lyon, Jack Miller, Jeff Cargin, Chuck Rankin, Frank Satterly, Brian Wilbur, Bernie Thoma, Peter Meskill. Supervisor Morey – Is there any additions to the agenda? If not, I have one. That’s going to be a resolution to pay the vendor for the safe door. That will be number 9. MOVED by Councilman Randall, seconded by Councilman Scheffler, to approve the minutes of the January 4, 2000 Organizational Meeting. Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, to approve the minutes of the January 11, 2000 regular Town Board Meeting. Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. General Fund Claim Nos.9 - 41 of the in the amount of $135,511.50 were presented to the Town Board for audit. (See Resolution #18 – Authorize Check for Mosler – added Claim No. 42 and raised total amount to $141,488.50.) MOVED by Councilman Scheffler, seconded by Councilman Randall, to approve the General Fund bills for payment. Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. Highway Fund Claim Nos.3 - 16 of the in the amount of $17,213.59 were presented to the Town Board for audit. MOVED by Councilman Sovocool, seconded by Councilman Scheffler, to approve the Highway bills for payment Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. Town Board Meeting Page 2 February 8, 2000 Special Grant (HUD) Claim Nos.177 - 178 of the Fund in the amount of $26,779.21 were presented to the Town Board for audit. MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Randall, to approve the HUD bills for payment Liz Brennan, Bookkeeper – I’m still closing the books, getting ready to give the annual report. I’ll probably have that done by the next Board Meeting. We do have transfers that need to be made from the 1999 budget. RESOLUTION #10 - TRANSFERS AND ENCUMBRANCES FOR 1999 BUDGET MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Randall. Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. RESOLVED , that the Town Board does hereby approve the following transfers for the 1999 Budget: General Fund, Part Town: From: Contingency B1990.4…………………………………$ 913.50 To: Zoning, Deputy Clerk Salary B8010.12………………$ 913.50 General Fund, Town Wide: From: Town Board, Contractual A1010.4……………………..$ 505.33 To: Justice, Clerk Salary A1110.1…………………………..$ 313.78 Justice, Contractual A1110.4…………………………... $ 191.55 From: Town Clerk, Contractual A1410.4…………………… $2,723.69 Tax Collection, Contractual A1330.4…………………..$ 173.00 To: Buildings, Equipment A1620.2…………………………$2,896.69 From: Bookkeeper, Salary A1220.12…………………………..$ 229.60 To: Highway Clerk, Salary A5010.12……………………….$ 229.60 From: Retirement A9010.8……………………………………..$ 31.43 To: Disability Ins. A9055.8………………………………….$ 31.43 Highway Fund, Town Wide: From: Workers Comp Ins. DA9040.8…………………………..$ 372.71 To: Health Insurance DA9060.8……………………………..$ 372.71 AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED , that the Town Board does hereby approve the following encumbrances from the 1999 Budget: Town Board Meeting Page 3 February 8, 2000 General Fund Town Wide A1620.4………………………………$5,504.80 (For vault door and floor tiles in Clerk’s office.) Highway Fund Part Town DB51110.4………………………..…$25,000.00 (For Old Stage Road bridge approaches.) Mark D. Gunn, Code Enforcement Officer – I don’t have a whole lot to report for the month of January. We didn’t have any building permits at all. I had two Life Safety Inspections, and they’re up to date. I seem to have made a little head room, with the help of Mr. Casullo, on the Coit property that’s been an issue since May or June. We’re still working on that, but we’ve made some progress on it. Richard C. Case, Jr., Highway Superintendent – Last month I started talking about the weather, but I’m not going to do that tonight since we haven’t heard anything about global warming since I spoke. You all have my report. The first part is all pretty general stuff. At this time I’d like to request the Board’s permission to purchase two material spreaders at an estimated cost of $4,800 each. This money for these purchases has been budgeted for in this current fiscal year. But I do need Board approval for that. Supervisor Morey – Have we bid them yet? Richard Case – I submitted for quotes, and I have three quotes. RESOLUTION #11 - AUTHORIZE HIGHWAY SUPERINTENDENT TO PURCHASE MATERIAL SPREADERS MOVED by Councilman Sovocool, seconded by Councilman Scheffler. Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. RESOLVED , that the Town Board does hereby authorize Richard C. Case, Jr., Highway Superintendent,to purchase two material spreaders at an estimated cost of $4,800 each. Richard Case – The second thing: I am in the final stages of writing bid specifications for one new, tandem axle, heavy duty, snowplow truck. With your approval, I’d like to put this vehicle out to bid. It is my intention that this truck be ready for service by next fall. Since its purchase will be subject to permissive referendum, I’d like to get this process started as soon as possible. Supervisor Morey – Do you need our approval to do that, to put it out to bids? Town Board Meeting Page 4 February 8, 2000 Attorney Casullo – Yes, he needs your approval. Councilman Sovocool – It’s coming out of the Capitol Reserve. That’s why it’s subject to the referendum. Supervisor Morey – The only thing is that we have the right to accept or reject any and all bids. I thought that would cover it. RESOLUTION #12 - AUTHORIZE SNOWPLOW TRUCK BE PUT OUT FOR BIDS MOVED by Councilman Scheffler, seconded by Councilman Clark Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. RESOLVED , that the Town Board does hereby authorize Richard C. Case, Jr., Highway Superintendent, to put out to bid one new, tandem axle, heavy duty, snowplow truck. Richard Case - There is just one more thing I’d like to mention. When we did the budget the biggest share of our increase was due to petroleum products. As we all know things are jumping here, beyond what I anticipated. We certainly aren’t in any dire emergency, but it’s twice what I figured right now. I don’t know if there is some sort of legislative action you’d like to start here, questioning this, but it is double what I anticipated back in the budget workshops. It probably should be thought about. Colleen D. Pierson, Town Clerk/Tax Collector – Submitted her monthly Town Clerk’s and Tax Collector’s reports for the Board’s review. Councilman Randall, reporting on Environmental Management Council – I don’t have a lot to report, but I just wanted to start getting some dialog back to the Board. I’m currently a member of the Environmental Management Council and basically attended a couple of organizational meetings. We just adopted the Unique Natural Area Resolution at the first meeting and there will be some new information fairly soon about that. I think as a municipality rep. I’m going to be trained and bring that back to the Board at a later date. I think it’s important to share some of the information each time and get on the agenda on a monthly basis. Part of my duties on the EMC, I have to report quarterly to them also. So, there’s a two way street. A suggestion would be that each of these other, like Youth Council, and whatever, if we could have a report once in awhile from there, not only to meet those people, but to get some feed-back. It would be nice if everybody knew what they did. I’ve lived here my whole life and I don’t know what each of them does. Town Board Meeting Page 5 February 8, 2000 Supervisor Morey – Did you share the minutes with the rest of the Board, of the Environmental…..? Councilman Randall – No, I haven’t got them yet. I have a meeting tomorrow night as a matter of fact. I will. Clerk Pierson – I do have a couple of quick things: One is our lease with the Village for rental of the Court Rooms. We haven’t okayed that yet. Normally it’s done every January. It’s $3,600 a year. Do you want to act on that now? We have it typed up and ready for signatures. RESOLUTION #13 - CONTRACT WITH VILLAGE FOR RENTAL OF COURT ROOMS MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool. Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. RESOLVED , that the Town Board does hereby authorize the 2000 Agreement between the Town of Groton and the Village of Groton for the use of Town Court Room facilities on Conger Boulevard for the annual fee of $3,600. Clerk Pierson – The other thing is that we have to think about as an expense for this year is that our voting machines really need servicing before we get into the November election. We’ll have to go through one primary. The one that’s down, we won’t need that for a primary, but we will need it later on in the year. I have an estimate of $98.00 per machine or a total of $588.00 to have them all done. It’s been some time since we’ve had them done. We should have it done. It’s like a preventative maintenance. We sure don’t want them to go down this year. Supervisor Morey – Do you need a resolution for that? Clerk Pierson – No, I just wanted you to know what it was going to cost. It will have to come out of…… What they do is, there are people who come down out of Gerry, NY, and most of the Towns in the County have them serviced at the same time to cut down on the costs. So, they will be letting me know when they will be here. Supervisor Morey – Thank you. Is there a representative for Steve Whicher? Valeria Coggin, County Assessment Office – Presented the Year 2000 Revaluation Summary and Analysis Report from the Tompkins County Division of Assessment. She went over the report with the Board and explained highlights. Notices of revaluation are scheduled be sent to Groton residents on February 25, 2000 and the informal hearing dates with the Division of Assessment will be March 6 – 17, 2000 at 128 East Buffalo St., Ithaca, Monday thru Friday, 8:30-4:30 by appointment. Town Board Meeting Page 6 February 8, 2000 Barbara Blanchard, Lee Shurtleff, Jack Miller, Peter Meskill, and Brian Wilbur – Presented an update on what is being done to improve the County’s communication system between police, fire and EMS personnel. Peter Meskill and Brian Wilbur presented the problems with the present communication system; Jack Miller and Lee Shurtleff described what the proposed solution is; and Barbara Blanchard presented the schedule to complete the project. Bernie Thoma, Thoma Development Consultants – You questioned me on the status of Diversified Testing, and I am happy to say that as of yesterday, they are current on their loan to the Town. They were behind six payments and they made a $3,000 payment to the bank yesterday, which gives them an outstanding balance of $91,216.05. Supervisor Morey – Don, you raised a question about securities. Do we have any securities on this? Bernie Thoma – Well, you have a lien on any and all equipment that they have now or will ever buy. Plus you have the personal guarantees of the two principals. Councilman Sovocool – How many other liens are on that equipment? Bernie Thoma – It really doesn’t matter because the Town is there first, unless they might purchase some additional equipment. The basic equipment that they had when we made the loan to them and with the money that was used to buy some additional equipment, the Town has the first position on. Supervisor Morey – That’s good news. Future grants: is there anything coming up? I understand that there is an existing house, or home type loan or mortgage? Bernie Thoma – Well, there’s programs that the Town can take advantage of, and I think the Town has had some community development grants beyond this one, Diversified Testing. I think working through the County and Better Housing, or something like that. Each year there is the opportunity for the Town to apply for a new community development grant similar to the projects that have been done in the Village. It is changing a little bit because in years past, you’ve always applied to the federal government, because it was the federal government administering the program. Starting this year, the year 2000, New York State will be running the program. I don’t know if that will be good or bad, but we will find out. One of the things, Glenn, that you and I talked about is the potential to do some home ownership similar to what the Village has done up on Blanchard Heights, with existing housing. I know the County has been doing that on a countywide basis. I don’t know what they’ve done in the Town. But I know for a number of years the County received some…….dollars….. Supervisor Morey – When do we have to apply for that? Bernie Thoma – Tentatively they are saying the applications for this year will be due to the th State on April 28. That is not set in concrete yet. The State has to go through some administrative process to take the program over. That is supposed to completed by the end of February and then they are supposed to formally announce. Town Board Meeting Page 7 February 8, 2000 Supervisor Morey – Would it be better to have a partnership apply for this grant, like the Village and Town? Bernie Thoma – Actually, in the Village, we’ve pretty much applied just for the Village. I think that the grants that the Town has received have always been outside the Village. Certainly, if you were going to do a home ownership project, you might want to do a joint project with the Town probably being the applicant because every place in the Village is also in the Town. That is a possibility. Or you can do it separately. Supervisor Morey – Louie, what do you think we should do? Should we look into it a little bit more? Councilman Sovocool – I think yes. Councilman Scheffler – Yes, look into it and see….. Supervisor Morey – Do you get this quote on how much this is going to cost us and where the money is going to be coming from? Bernie Thoma – I can. I have. What I would recommend is, if you are in the gathering information stage, is probably not something that you’ll gather and make a decision and be able to submit by the end of April, so you’d probably be talking about next year’s application. There’s also another State program, the home program that might be usable. We’ve received a couple of home grants in the Village to use in just rehab. But you can also do home ownership with those. Those actually have a shorter deadline. My thought was that if you started looking with next year as your goal for getting the applications together, that would give you time to collect all your information and make your decision and then give plenty of time for us or whoever is to assist you in writing the application, making sure it’s competitive. Obviously, if you want to try to do something with the Village, it’s going to take some time to coordinate that Supervisor Morey – What are the next steps for us then? Bernie Thoma – Is it home ownership that you’re looking for or are you just looking for any type of program? Supervisor Morey – That’s a good start. Bernie Thoma – I can provide you with some information on how a homeowner program would run, what would the rules and regulations be, and certainly a proposal to help you submit an application, and what would a potential application look like as far as how much money and how would the assistance be provided. I’d be happy to do that sometime in the next month or so. Then if you wanted to in the spring, have me back again, and we could talk about that and proceed from there. The other thing that you and I talked about, Glenn, is your….business loan program…program income. You have that Kathy Baxendell? Supervisor Morey – Yes, everybody got a copy of that. Bernie Thoma – The first thing I suggested, I don’t know how much you have, but I assume you do have some repayments in an account someplace, based upon any repayments that have been Town Board Meeting Page 8 February 8, 2000 made from Diversified Tests. Those funds can be used to make other loans to businesses that are growing in the Town. Glenn mentioned to me that he was approached by Kathy (Baxendell) who was interested in maybe borrowing some money, and the first thing I recommended is that before you just made the loan to somebody, you should really establish a program, so that you have some criteria to make that loan. One of the things I put together is some general criteria based upon the way the Village does it and the way some other communities do it. Then if you want to get us involved in providing the facilitation and the administration of that, I have provided Glenn with a proposal to do that on per loan basis. I don’t know, Glenn, have you heard back from her? Supervisor Morey – No. I was waiting for you before……. Fran, do we have to make a resolution to accept the program after we get it all taken care of? Attorney Casullo - I think you should. Supervisor Morey – Okay. So it probably wouldn’t be not until March until we get that together and review a little bit more. After the program, then we could approach people for the loan? Attorney Casullo – More often than not, they approach you. I guess the first thing you’d have to do, and maybe Bernie can help you with this, but make them aware that you are having this program. Bernie Thoma – One of the big concerns is if you go ahead and make a loan and you haven’t announced that it’s available, and you have other people out there who have a project and could have applied for that money too. If you establish your program, it gives you an opportunity to establish it at a Board meeting, get a little PR, put it in the Shopper or something, saying that the Town has funds available. Supervisor Morey – History: Louie and Don, what was the program before this? Councilman Sovocool – There wasn’t too much of a program before that, other than we got the loan and most of it went to Diversified. Bernie Thoma – Yes, that initial grant, we didn’t set up a program then because that was what the purpose of the grant was. It was just a loan. That’s all it was. It was just funds to make that loan to Diversified. Supervisor Morey – But you’d lend money to other people off this grant, right? Bernie Thoma – Not that I know of. Councilman Sovocool – We were supposed to. When this loan got repaid, that money was available to lend to other people. Bernie Thoma – Right. That was part of the process. But I don’t think any of the money has been out on loan. Town Board Meeting Page 9 February 8, 2000 Supervisor Morey – No, we never had enough. So there should be a program someplace, or is this specifically for one person? We’re going to have to adopt…… Bernie Thoma – When the grant was applied for, it was specifically to provide assistance to that company to relocate to the Town. So, there was never really a program established. It wasn’t that the Town asked for the money and then people applied for it. It was specific to that project. Supervisor Morey – So, by March we have to get a new program in. Bernie Thoma – I gave you a basic one to use as a guideline of things that you might want to decide about, if you want to have a loan committee like the Village does it, or you just want to function as the Board being the loan committee. Some communities do it that way. Other than that, it’s pretty generic. I’ll get you that information on the home ownership by your next meeting. Then if you want to invite me again, we could talk about it in more detail. Supervisor Morey – Thanks, I appreciate it, Bernie. Chris Dempsey – It’s time for everybody’s favorite subject: insurance. What I did was try to not make it too meaty. I just put together some records on what you’re presently carrying. It’s just a little bit less than last year. That means the safe didn’t affect us or have anything to do with our rates for that small loss, which is good. The reason I really like this company is the claim rep. lives in Groton City, just around the corner from Sheldon’s old farmhouse. So, if we have something, he’s real close. So, they’re as pretty good insurance company as I’ve been able to find. We run checks up to $2000 right out of our office within 24 hours. So, if there was something small happened….. Colleen, did you think that safe claim went okay? Clerk Pierson – Oh, it went good. He just came in and looked, and said, “send me the bill.” Chris Dempsey – Yeah, that’s the way they work. We like them. As an overage, basically what we have is, on the front page we have a million dollar coverage on our unders (?). That public officials should say a million dollars and that’s covering you folks. We have a 3 million umbrella. Under that, I’ve got a list of the vehicles and what we’re carrying on the comp and collision, and under that, I’ve got our marine coverage that covers our radios and things like that. All our buildings and the content of our buildings are covered for 2.3 million dollars. It’s on the blanket. So, say this building goes, there’d be 2.3 million available coverage for just this building. The back building, the same thing, up to what it costs us to put back. You can see there’s $430 if you want to add another million dollars on your 3 million umbrella. That 3 million goes over our regular general liability and also the over the public official’s million dollars. Some other things, that’s the basics of what your insurance is. You basically have liability up to 4 million and we’re covering the vehicles, and it’s a pretty basic plan. I’ll touch on real quick as far as what we were talking about with at some point in time there’s a question that might come up. We talked about at some point in time having youth coordinators or something along that. One of the things I was interested in is that right now I’m having a little bit of trouble getting liability coverage for the Little League and the football, Pop Warner, or whatever you call it. And I don’t believe the soccer program here in Town has liability insurance. Selective Insurance will add this to the Town or to the Village for nothing, this liability, as long as they have an accident policy. Now, am I saying to you that it’s going to cost you nothing if they have Town Board Meeting Page 10 February 8, 2000 a million dollar claim? No, it will raise your rates. You have a half a million dollar claim, it will raise your rates. At the start-up, it will cost you nothing. So, it’s the same for everybody. But, what we need to do is we need to cover these programs and anything I’m looking at to cover them on a liability on their own, Groton Little League, I think the last I got was $4000. They can’t afford that. But that’s the best price I could get, and that’s just for liability. Anything I can see, back to the 70’s, we’ve never had a claim on at least the Little League. The soccer is not as old. They’ve never had a claim. And the football’s brand new. Maybe you don’t want to take on that exposure, and I can understand that. That’s all I want to say. I think it’s a great thing that this insurance company, maybe not even a wise thing for them to do, take on something like this without any charge. But their feeling is for the amount of money, the Village being with the same company, put torward this insurance company that they would be willing to do that. I had to pressure them a little bit, but…also that’s another thing that I can’t guarantee on making this speech tonight. We don’t have any claims. What’s to say next year they don’t come back and say, hey, it’s a thousand bucks, hey, it’s three thousand? They might. I can’t say. So, I swam through that quick. I always do. Is there any questions? I assume you might want to make a decision on the extra one million dollars on the umbrella. Richard Case – In your opinion, is the liability insurance high enough? Chris Dempsey – There’s an attorney sitting here. There’s no way it’s high enough. Richard Case – Outside of Groton, what’s happening? Chris Dempsey – The market number that everybody is pushing these days is 10 million. The school has 10 million. Historically it took me a long time to get this Board to take an umbrella, and the only reason they did was that we got a lower insurance rate. I think we went a long time without an umbrella here. Supervisor Morey – When do you have to know about the 4 million dollar umbrella? th Chris Dempsey – That doesn’t really matter. It’s like anything: your renewal is on the 15 and th you decide on the 20 you want a four or a ten, it’s like anything; you can add it or take it away any day you want. Councilman Sovocool – How much does it cost to jump it a million, $430? Chris Dempsey – Yup. Well, that’s for the 4 million. If you, that’s pretty close to what…. Councilman Sovocool – If it’s 5 million, you’d go another $430…..? Chris Dempsey – You could probably, like if you started going up, like if you went to 10, we could pressure it so that you could, you know, get it down. But if you said you wanted an extra 2 million, that $430 times 2 is going to be pretty close. Councilman Sovocool – We must have budgeted $30,000 for insurance and we’re down a $1000 so I think we should go with the 4 million anyways. Councilman Scheffler – Yeah, I think probably we ought to go with the 4 million. Town Board Meeting Page 11 February 8, 2000 Councilman Randall – Yeah, I think so too. Councilman Clark – I whole-heartedly agree. RESOLUTION #14 - APPROVE INSURANCE COVERAGE AND INCREASE UMBRELLA TO $4 MILLION. MOVED by Councilman Sovocool, seconded by Councilman Scheffler Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. RESOLVED , that the Town Board does hereby approve the Insurance Coverage for the Town as presented by Chris Dempsey of Dempsey Insurance Company for an amount of $29,852.16 and agrees to raise the umbrella coverage for liability insurance to $4 million at and additional cost of $430, making the total: $30,282.16. Chris Dempsey – Does anyone have any questions or anything at all on the Little League problem? Councilman Scheffler - What’s the school’s position? Chris Dempsey – On that question, I basically went to the school and told them the problem I was having before I went to the Village Board. I went to the school’s insurance company, and they’d never heard of such a thing. They said that they were the biggest insurers of schools in the state and they had never had anybody insure the Little League, or what have you, through the school. It always went through the Village or Town or they had their own, or they were in the Little League Association. So, that would be very abnormal for the school to take on that liability. They were very, very, hesitant to do that. See, the whole thing comes down to control. Even Selective, every insurance company, they want if you’re going to put the Little League and the foot ball team and the soccer team as a rider on your policy, those people have to traipse through here and you’re really in charge of them. They have to come to you and explain to you what they’re doing. You have to have some kind of control. They are now under you. That’s the same thing as the Youth Coordinator. It has to go through somebody. Somebody has to have some kind of control. Councilman Sovocool – Well, in other years, who’s paid the insurance on Little League? Chris Dempsey – The Little League has paid it itself, but all they have is a blanket policy. I think once upon a time Glenn took care of it and they had liability then, but they haven’t had it for a while. Councilman Sovocool – But the Little League paid it, not the Village or the school or the Town. Town Board Meeting Page 12 February 8, 2000 Chris Dempsey – That’s correct. What they do now is they pay their accident policy and that runs somewhere in the $800 range. The football team has an accident policy and that runs them around $350. And the soccer team has an accident policy, but all that pays is if one of the kids gets hurt or is in an accident. I am sure the school has a certain amount of liability because the fields are theirs, and if somebody slips in a hole or something, well that’s going to be on the school. But they’ve run into problems. I guess there are some people who have asked, you know, if I am going to coach this team, where’s the liability insurance. Well, they don’t have any. I don’t think, I think in the past three years the market has sort of dried up, that have been in this kind of business. Councilman Sovocool – I’ve had businessmen tell me that when they sponsor a team, they buy liability insurance. Chris Dempsey – You can sue the sponsor to an extent. But what’s covering the coach? What’s covering the Little League organization? You know as well as I do, if you’re going to sue, you sue everybody you can, right down the line. Some further discussion was held on the subject with no decision being made. Supervisor Morey – Next is to talk about the Youth Coordinator: Chuck and Jeff. Chuck Rankin, Groton Village Clerk – As I told you on the phone the other day, Glenn, this was a discussion last year and we never really got too far with it. The Village has been busy building utilities to fish farms and getting Main Street done, and a couple of other things that came up. I did contact Steve Colt, Town of Lansing, and he wanted to come over and talk to both boards collectively or a committee from both boards. He said he’d also talk to Dave Remick, at the school. He probably should be involved in the use of the school’s facilities. That should come into play when this whole thing shakes out. I think we left it last year in the one brief meeting that we had with both the Town and Village Boards, I think we left it that we’re kind of hung up on a job description. I said to Steve, what do you do. He said he thought when he was a half time employee, it didn’t fall under County Civil Service as a competitive position. When it became full time, they had to have a Civil Service test with that same job description and he said it is like anything else, positions kind of evolve. It’s what the director of recreations of the Village is right now. If you go to the County and ask for that job description, it’s the Director of Recreations. The advantage is that maybe that isn’t the most perfect document you could want, but I’ve been through getting new job titles through the County. If you want to go that route, you won’t get it done this year, I can tell you that right now. It will be after the summer season if it happens. There was some more discussion on the subject. It was felt that an organizational meeting should be set up between the Village and the Town. It was decided that Supervisor Morey and Councilman Randall would represent the Town and Jeff Cargin, Chris Neville and Paul McCarty would represent the Village. Supervisor Morey asked Mr. Rankin to come up with a date and advertise the meeting so that any other interested parties could attend. Jeff Cargin – I just wondered if the school asked the Village to take the liability for the sports groups. Town Board Meeting Page 13 February 8, 2000 Chris Dempsey – Yeah, they sent a copy of that letter that they sent. They sent one to Glenn, I believe. Several Board Members indicate that they had received one. Glenn Morey – It’s up for discussion. Chuck Rankin – I guess my feeling was that if it was just Village kids using all these programs, I’d say yes, the Village…… I think probably a lot of these kids are out in the Township and, let’s face it, there are probably some that are outside the Township. If there is a liability, your spreading it over a bigger tax base, and I guess that’s one reason why I felt the Town should at least be approached on it. Whether we get into this and who’s going to do what, if that’s the way it all shakes down……… If neither one of us decides to take it, there’s no liability insurance. There was some more discussion on the topic of youth coordinator and liability insurance. Supervisor Morey – Thank you Chuck and Chris. April wants to come and talk a little bit about the Land Use and Development Code that we’re going to try and amend tonight. April, do you want to come up now? April Scheffler – (Passed hand-outs to the Board). First of all I would like to say that Tyke and Mark and I have been sort of a self-appointed committee to look at this because for the most part we don’t agree with what the Planning Board has presented to the Town Board. And as a new Planning Board member, I would like to go on record as saying that I don’t agree with it. We’ve all done quite a lot of talking among ourselves and a great deal of research, all three of us probably in different directions. And then we talked it over among ourselves and we talked with a lot of other people out in the Town. Basically, I have three different things I would like to cover tonight. First of all, the idea of height and size restrictions on accessory buildings is not unheard of. According to the “American Land Planning Law”, that these restrictions on the location of various buildings and structures – garages and sheds, fences, boathouses, and so on, such regulations have two principal purposes – to keep such structures, especially any large structures, away from adjacent lot lines, in order to protect the neighbors, and also to prevent their location in places where they would detract form the appearance of the neighborhood generally. It also states that these regulations tend to promote several of the statutory purposes of zoning – providing safety from fire, limiting the over-crowding of land, providing for light and air and sunshine, and improving and beautifying the village or town. I have provided you with information: the first page is mostly collected off the Internet. It’s various towns around the state who do have zoning height restrictions on accessory buildings. Most of them are 20 feet or 15 feet in height. That’s an overall height. Some of them actually limit square footage on accessory buildings too. I also had some discussions with George Senter. He informed me that the Village of Groton has a sidewall limit of 12 feet. As you know it has been said that the Code Enforcement Officers in the Town of Groton have always interpreted the 12-foot height limit that was stated in our code as 12-foot sidewall height. George said that that’s the way he always interpreted it when he was Town Board Meeting Page 14 February 8, 2000 Code Enforcement Officer for the Town. He feels that it is sufficient for most accessory buildings being built both within the Village and in the Town. He feels that to completely remove the height limit would not be a good idea. His one suggestion was that if the Town were to go with the 35-foot height limit, there should be some very, very careful consideration about the yard requirements. Putting a 35-foot building 6 foot from your property line is a little bit different than having a small garage next to your property line, and your neighbor may look at that as very different too. As he said, it could restrict your view completely, create a big shade spot where you usually grow your garden and you can’t grow your garden anymore, and a lot of other different things that could possibly be problems. I spoke with Doug Staley, Code Enforcement Officer for several towns, mostly, I think, in Cayuga County. He said that most of the towns he works for do not have specific height limitations in their local codes. We spent quite a bit of time discussing, I explained our whole situation here, and we discussed the possible size of the buildings if they were allowed to be 35 feet high. He agreed with me that that would be a very large building. When I asked him if he thought it was a good idea that we just remove this height restriction, his words were that to remove that height restriction would be in effect to “throw the barn door open and just let the horse run away.” I also discussed this with the Code Enforcement Officer in Cortlandville. Cortlandville is listed on your list of towns that do have height restrictions. They have 20 foot overall and 15 foot overall height restriction depending on what district you are in. They have different ones for different districts. I asked him how he would feel about completely removing those height restrictions and going with a 35-foot tall accessory structure. He felt that would be totally out of line for any kind of residential area and that it would produce a lot of problems. He mentioned a lot of things that were similar to the things that Mark mentioned to you when he came in and spoke to the Board about not knowing what might really be going on in the building and things that you could put in a building of that size. The second thing, I’d like to say: I think you all got the thing from the ZBA about changes they would like to see. They speak in there about changing some of the definitions for some of the buildings and possibly having special use permits for a building that’s larger than a normal sized garage. This is something that Lyle and I have had several discussions on. One of the things that I was concerned about was the wording in our Code where it says 12 foot, well it says less, but we all know it should be more, with site plan review. I kept wondering why it said site plan review and not variance, because everyone who wants a higher building, we’re sending them for a variance, not a site plan review. As I began researching in the law books that we have on our shelves in the back room, there is a lot in there about special use permits and how they could possibly be used in a situation like this, where if you want to build a building that is larger than your normal garage, you can have a larger building. You don’t have to go for a variance and actually change the law, which is one of Lyle’s concerns, you can have a site plan review, you can have special permit. We could have conditions put on an extremely large or larger building than normal. Those conditions would give the Code Enforcement Officer a few things to work with to make sure that these buildings are staying within the parameters that we want them to stay within, so that they remain appropriate to the neighborhood and appropriate for the neighbors. The third thing: I have provided you with some definitions of accessory buildings and uses. One is from “New York Zoning Law and Practice”; the other is from “American Land Planning Town Board Meeting Page 15 February 8, 2000 Law”; and the other is from our own Town of Groton Land Use and Development Code. Every definition of an accessory building that I have found clearly states that it needs to be subordinate and also incidental to the primary structure. To demonstrate: You all know how big our so- called “cold storage building” is out back here. I assume you have all seen it. This picture that I have provided you with, the smaller building in the middle is a scale drawing, taken from the blue print. 1/8 inch equals one foot. This building has 16-foot sidewalls, is 54 foot across the front, is 26 feet to the peak. That’s a big building out there. It’s much, much bigger than your normal garage would be. I’m not sure, but it’s probably bigger than your business garage, isn’t it (directed at Councilman Scheffler)? (Councilman Scheffler indicated agreement.) The lines that I drew on the outside demonstrate how big this building would be if you continued with the 16 foot sidewalls and raised the roof to 35 feet. The distance across the front would be approximately 126 feet, which is double, more than double. (Scheffler then produced scale models) This is our building out back (first model). I’m not a carpenter, but this is to scale, the same scale as this (the drawing). This is basically your singlewide mobile home (second model), also to the same scale. And this would be a doublewide (third model), or your normal ranch- style house being built in the Town of the Groton. Either one of them is quite a lot smaller than that building. Take that building and raise it to 35 feet, you have a building this big (fourth model). This building is 126 feet across the front and 180 feet deep. You can fit 16 singlewide mobile homes inside this building. That’s without stacking them up. And you still have room left over. I have to ask you if you think that in any way a building of this size can be incidental to a building this size. I am not saying that everybody wants to build this style of building. I am not saying that this is going to happen over and over. But this could be the horse that runs out of the barn if you open that door. That’s all I have to say. I don’t know if Mark has anything. Mark Gunn – She’s done a great job. Thanks, April. Exactly what she said here, as far as the incidental to the primary structure try to imagine just that garage alone, not even going with anything larger than that, and imagine 12 feet (Gunn walks forward and demonstrates the distance from himself and Councilman Clark). Right now our Land Use and Development Code allows somebody to put a structure 6 feet from the property line. Imagine a singlewide mobile home six feet from its property line and a structure 6 feet from that, adjacent to it. That’s the problem we’re going to have. I feel either way, the set backs need to be looked at. I think they’re a little bit too close. I think they’re a lot too close if something like this comes into Town. The chances of this coming up, somebody building a structure this size, you think it might be slim to none, but whenever I come down my road and I look across the valley over to 222, I see this fish hatchery. If you look at this town over the last 15 – 20 years, the woman who presented us with the assessment material tonight said it herself: Groton’s growing. People are moving out of other towns from higher tax rates, coming to Groton. Our buildings are getting very much larger. We’re seeing only a handful of these larger scale pole barns going up right now, only a handful in the last, probably, 15 years. Add another 10 years, if you do this now, in 10 years, we’re going to have things like this all over, and it’s going to be haunting us. People who have owned their property for years are going to have nice little homesteads, nice little gardens, and then somebody is going to come in and buy the 15 acres next door and because they have the ability to build a garage that big, they’ll build it. And it’s going to look out of place. It’s going to be too large. It’s going to be too close to property lines, too close to other structures. And I’m not going to have a leg to stand on. If you think this won’t come back to bite us: we were the first ones to come up with the entertainment problem. I don’t want to see us be the first one to come up with a lawsuit because we’ve got a 35 foot structure next to Ma and Pa’s singlewide trailer, a fire started, and it burnt both places down. It needs to be looked at seriously. I have seen not one piece of paper, one piece of research that has supposedly been Town Board Meeting Page 16 February 8, 2000 done by our Planning Board. I have not seen one piece of research. I thank Tyke and April for doing what they’ve done on this. Supervisor Morey – Thank you. Any other, a public comment? Let’s go back to monthly reports. Fran, you got anything for us? Attorney Casullo – No, just to keep you posted on the Coit property as we find out what the Town has on record, and I will keep you posted on that. Supervisor Morey - Okay. Number 6 is resolution to amend Land Use and Development Code. The process is to make the resolution. Attorney Casullo – The process is: I was asked to draft the law last month. You each have it on your desk. If you’re comfortable with it, you pass a resolution saying this is the proposed local law that would amend various sections of the Code dealing with the height issue. If you get a resolution that passes, you set your public hearing date. Supervisor Morey – So we pass the resolution, and then when the public hearing comes up, is it automatic approval? Attorney Casullo – Oh, no, not at all. You hold your public hearing and you listen to what the public has to say. If you’re swayed by some strong comment, by what the people say who are against what your proposal is, you don’t have to vote on it or even vote it down. That’s why you schedule a public hearing. You want to hear what the public has to say about what you’re planning to propose. If somebody from the public brings up a point that you think is worthy, you don’t have it accepted as is. That’s the whole idea of a public hearing, to get input. Councilman Randall – I have a question: if we pass this, not passing…. but it goes forward from this point if we approve….? Attorney Casullo – If you resolve that you want to pass a resolution proposing to amend the code by this, and that resolution passes, then you just set it up for the public hearing. Your vote will occur after the public hearing, whether or not this passes. You are not voting tonight to say this passes as proposed. Councilman Randall – So it’s basically a step to get it out in front of the public? Attorney Casullo – Absolutely. Clerk Pierson – Could that be amended right now? Or can it be amended just after the hearing? Attorney Casullo – Well, I try not to get too involved in this thing, because I always get myself in trouble with the various……. But I’ll tell you this: I think, Colleen, that you were here last year and you can remember, when this first got brought up, it was actually my thought that what should happen, once I started hearing people pro and con about all this with the height, that you get some people from the Planning Board, get some people from the ZBA, get your Code Enforcement Officer, you sit down and hash this out to something that they all agree they can bring back to their various boards. Then once they get a general consensus, bring it to you, this Board. That way at least you know that what’s being brought to you has at least the majority Town Board Meeting Page 17 February 8, 2000 support of your Planning Board, your ZBA, and your Code Enforcement Officer, which makes it a lot easier for you guys to discuss it. th Supervisor Morey – Fran, we started that. On January 26 I sat down with the ZBA at a business meeting, and Tyke was at the meeting too, and we started off on what they were going to do and we were going to follow through that. I’ve asked Mark to give me a report of what he thought were short comes. So, and then next to the Planning Board to try to coordinate stuff. But it’s not going to happen next week or next month. It’s going to take awhile before we do that because we want to do it right. So, that’s one special no. Number 6 – can I have a motion to amend the Land Use and Development Code? Anyone? There was no response from the Board. Councilman Scheffler – Well, we have to do something on this. Supervisor Morey – Don, the only thing that we’re going to do right now is set up a public meeting, and then we’ll have to vote on it afterwards. Councilman Scheffler – So just basically, if we move on this tonight it’s just to get the ball rolling, whether it’s 12 feet or 3 feet or 35 feet? Several people speaking at once. Attorney Casullo – What would be happening is you would be getting the ball rolling as it stands right now. Councilman Sovocool – What if we wanted to change this after we got the ball rolling? Supervisor Morey – No. Councilman Sovocool – You can’t change it? Attorney Casullo – What you can do is after the public hearing, if it’s a radical change, then you start over again. If it’s a radical change it has to go over again. If it’s a rather minor or technical change, you can live with it. But if you’re talking right now you want to go 35 feet and then after a public hearing, you want to go back to 12 foot and accessory, it’s not going to fly that way. Councilman Sovocool – Could we change this from what they’ve got now from 35 to 20 and go that way? Attorney Casullo – You can do that if you want. Councilman Sovocool – Before we advertise it? Attorney Casullo – Sure. Supervisor Morey – We can change it right now? Town Board Meeting Page 18 February 8, 2000 Attorney Casullo – Sure you can. I’ll have it on your desks well before the public hearing date. Councilman Sovocool – It appears to me that most of these places are going anywheres from 15 to 20 feet for accessory buildings, maximum of 35 on principal buildings. Councilman Scheffler – Are we talking total height or sidewall height? Councilman Sovocool – I don’t know. “Accessory building, 20 feet.” April Scheffler – That was total height. I’m not sure that they were all to the peak, some were between the eves and the peak…. Mark Gunn – The height as our Land Use and Development Code states now, the definition of height is average finished grade to the peak. April Scheffler – Some of them in the other towns are not to the peak…….. Supervisor Morey – Let’s go back to Tyke. The maximum height of 20 feet, would that give you 12-foot sidewalls? Councilman Randall – Yes. Mark Gunn – Yes. Supervisor Morey – So it would be well within the same definition of accessory building that we have right now? Councilman Randall – Yeah, it would make it an accessory building, not a primary building. Mark Gunn – You could get a 14-foot side wall in there. Councilman Scheffler – Depending on the width of the building. Councilman Randall – Right. Councilman Scheffler – The one (building) I have, everybody looks at it and everybody wants to know: It’s 48 long, 30 wide, and 16 foot side wall to facilitate a 14 foot door and the peak is 23’5”. Mark Gunn – That’s a big building. Councilman Scheffler – That’s a big building. That gives everybody an idea. Supervisor Morey – Fran, if we change this from maximum building structure dimension to 20 feet all the way down, one, two, three, four, is there any other places we have to change that to 20 feet? Town Board Meeting Page 19 February 8, 2000 Attorney Casullo – Were you going to have primary or accessory structure 20 feet; I don’t know what the meters are? Yeah, if you just tell me you’re going 20 feet, you’d just be making that one change there. I believe, what I was able to see in the Code, those were the only sections that would apply to. You’re simply going from 35 to 20. April Scheffler – On accessory. Councilman Sovocool – For accessory buildings only. Attorney Casullo – So you’d be going back to a distinction of primary and accessory? That’s a key change, because last month I was told that we were going to get rid of the distinction. That’s why I put primary or accessory structure. What would you be doing for the primary structure, going back to the way it was? Mark Gunn – Primary is standard all over the place. It’s pretty much a standard of 35 feet. Attorney Casullo – How’s our Code read right now? Mark Gunn – 35. Attorney Casullo – So you’d be going back to the primary at 35, and the accessory at 20 feet, and that would be okay in all of the different sections except for the low intensity, which is covered by the building codes. Yes, I could change that and I could have it on your desks certainly well before the March meeting if someone wants to pass a resolution, if that’s what the Board wants to do. Councilman Sovocool – Well, is that going to cure the problem? Supervisor Morey – Okay, so the amendment is established that the maximum height for all buildings and structures, oh, wait a minute, we’d have to change that too. Tyke, would you be happy with this? Councilman Randall – I’m not a hundred percent, but it seems like a willing compromise, honestly. Taking everything into consideration, I think it’s the best route. Mark Gunn – If I might add, with this whole thing, bringing this height down, and I just spoke to Fran on the side, even going with a 12 foot side wall height and bringing the peak down to 20 feet, I think at a later point, and Fran said we could do this, it’s a technical issue, we need to look at the square footage as well. That’s something the ZBA said also, because we can’t allow a 4000 square foot “garage” to go in a place where it’s just not allowed, there’s not enough room. So, something has to be done between the committees to come up with a really good square footage rule as to the size of the lot and how close the structure. But to answer your question, Louie, this will be 95% of the problem here, the height. But we should do something later on about square footage. We could have that building with 12-foot sidewalls and we have no restrictions on square footage. Councilman Sovocool – But wouldn’t your lot kind of regulate that? Town Board Meeting Page 20 February 8, 2000 Mark Gunn – It does to an extent, if somebody has a small lot because you’re only allowed to cover so much of your lot. But if you’ve got a 15-acre parcel, you could put one of these large, 6, 8, 10,000 square foot garage in that. Some of the places, when we did the research, had some restrictions on square footage, and it went by district too. So, commercial districts could have bigger garages and low density could have the smaller ones, where the houses are closer knit. But the height, that gets us by. And like Tyke said, I think it is a fair compromise. I appreciate the Board for reconsidering. Councilman Scheffler – They can still apply for site plan review or a special use permit. I don’t want to….every lot is different. You can’t, I don’t want to make it so people can’t do what they want to do. Mark Gunn – Which is what we don’t want. We just want to be careful and make sure something doesn’t come back to haunt us. Supervisor Morey – George, do you have a comment? George Totman, Planning Board Chairman - I guess I better not. Supervisor Morey – Sheldon? George Totman – I guess my only thought is, I’m not going to get involved in this because I think it’s very inappropriate. But my only thought is that I’ve been on the Planning Board for 33 years and never had this problem of being blind-sided and not being considered in making a decision before, and I’m not going to try to speak for the whole Planning Board. I think it should be a Board decision. The Board met twice and give it to the Town Board. If the Town Board decides to ignore what they’re doing, I’ll just have to take it back to them and see what they want to do about things. I’m not going to get involved in this sort of thing. Supervisor Morey – Okay. Well, George, it’s the Town Board’s final decision. We know that, right? George Totman - Yeah, oh I understand. I don’t know…. Supervisor Morey – All righty. Does anybody want to make a resolution to keep the primary buildings at 35 feet and the accessory buildings at 20 feet? Councilman Sovocool – I would. Town Board Meeting Page 21 February 8, 2000 RESOLUTION #15 - PROPOSED LOCAL LAW #1 FOR THE YEAR 2000 CONCERNING HEIGHT OF ACCESSORY BUILDINGS MOVED by Councilman Sovocool, seconded by Councilman Randall. Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Morey Nays – Clark RESOLVED , that the Town Board does hereby request that Town Attorney, Francis Casullo, make the necessary changes to proposed Local Law #1 for the Year 2000 to reflect the Board’s desire to have a distinction between primary and accessory structures and that the maximum height for primary structures be 35 feet and the maximum height of accessory structures be 20 feet in all districts, with the exception of Low Intensity. Attorney Casullo – I think probably you’d want to rescind your resolution of last month, because you went on record last month as that was what you wanted to do. I guess it should go on record that this resolution that you just passed is going to overrule or rescind your resolution of last month. RESOLUTION #16 - RESCIND RESOLUTION #9 – JANUARY 11, 2000 MOVED by Councilman Sovocool, seconded by Councilman Clark Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. RESOLVED , that the Town Board does hereby rescind Resolution #9, dated January 11, 2000, in which the Town Board accepted the Planning Board’s recommendation to change the Town of Groton Land Use and Development Code to remove the present maximum height of 12 feet for accessory buildings and replace it with a 35 foot height limit for all buildings. Attorney Casullo – Just so I don’t get in trouble here, I probably am going to admit this, probably one of the rare times recently that George and I agree, I sort of think that the Board is the final arbiter in this matter. Given what’s happened tonight, he’s sort of been blindsided, but then again, as Glenn said you guys are the final arbiters. But I sort of tend to agree with him on that. Maybe he wasn’t given a full opportunity to express or rebut the views that were made tonight. Then again the Board is the final arbiter and you have the right to do what you want to do. Supervisor Morey – Okay. The intent was to get a clarification on the accessory structures and I think we fulfilled that intent. When’s the next Board meeting? Town Board Meeting Page 22 February 8, 2000 MOVEDPublic Hearing by Councilman Morey, seconded by Councilman Randall, to set a date Local Law Number 1 for Tuesday, March 14, at 8:00 PM at the Town Hall to discuss proposed for the Year 2000 which proposes to amend the Land Use and Development Code of the Town of Groton with regard to accessory building heights. Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey. Supervisor Morey - Any other discussion? Number 8: Resolution to pay utility invoices early. The Town Board did make a resolution in years past, but the new Board Members, we haven’t. Basically, the resolution is to pay the utility bills early because the Board dates do not coincide with the pay dates of the utility bills, and we’re getting nailed with the late payment. RESOLUTION #17 - PAY UTILTILY INVOICES EARLY MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Sovocool. Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey RESOLVED , that the Town Board does hereby authorize the payment of utilities bills before the date of audit to avoid late charges. Supervisor Morey – The last one is a resolution to pay the vendor,Mosler, for the safe door. Supposedly, they want the money up front, but Colleen and I had the discussion today and we will pay them when they walk out the door. We don’t know when it’s going to be. The safe door is in Syracuse. They have to contract with a concrete person to come in and modify the door opening. RESOLUTION #18 - AUTHORIZE CHECK FOR MOSLER MOVED by Supervisor Morey, seconded by Councilman Randall. Ayes – Sovocool, Scheffler, Randall, Clark, Morey RESOLVED , that the Town Board does hereby authorize the issuance of a check to Mosler, Inc. in the amount of 5,799.00 for the safe door and installation thereof. (Payment was added to audit of General Funds as voucher #42, raising approved total of General Fund vouchers from $8,390.50 to $14,367.50.) Town Board Meeting Page 23 February 8, 2000 Supervisor Morey – A couple things in your packet this week is ZBA code revisions. Tyke and I sat down with the ZBA and we discussed some of the things that we are going to be discussing in the next couple of months about code revisions. Our next step will be to sit down with the Planning Board and they are fairly brand new, so we will be talking to them in the next month. I did get a job description of the Constable, so if anybody knows someone who would fit this, could you please have them apply for the job? The alarm system, Don and Tyke, have you sat down with Rick about the alarm system? Councilman Scheffler – Not together. I talked to Rick about it some. Councilman Randall – I saw him last night, but I haven’t sat down formally yet. Supervisor Morey – We have to do something pretty quick. You have a quote there for the Knox Box. Basically that’s just the firemen’s key that is locked at all times and Chris said there are five people in the fire department that have one and can get in, and they are usually just chiefs. So, we’ve got to move on that too. If you guys can make it for next month and make a presentation for us, I’d appreciate it. Equipment, Sheldon? Have you sat down with Rick? We have to find out what we’re going to be doing and how much it’s going to cost us, and what the time frame is. I know we have some big purchases on that. th Also the Ithaca Journal is going to be meeting February 16 at the High School at 4:15. So whoever could show up there we’d appreciate it. There being no further business, Supervisor Morey made a motion to adjourn, seconded by Councilman Sovocool, at 9:45 PM. Unanimous. Colleen D. Pierson Town Clerk