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Home My WebLink About2001-02-14TO 2= 14-81 TOWN OF DRYDEN TOWN BOARD MEETMG February 14, 2001 Board Members Present: Su.pv Mark Varvayanis, Cl Thomas Hatfield, Cl Deborah Grantham Absent: Cl Charles Hatfield, Cl Ronald Beck Other Elected Officials: Bambi L. Hollenbeck, Town Cleric Jack Bush, Highway Superintendent Other Town Staff: Mahlon R. Perkins, Town Attorney Henry Slater, Zoning Officer David Putnam (TG Millers), Town Engineer PUBLIC HEARING LOCAL LAW 03 -2001 Billboard Moratorium Supv Varvayanis opened the public hearing at 7.10 p.m. and Town Clerk read the notice of public hearing published in The Ithaca Journal. Supv Varvayanis asked if there was anyone present who wished to comment. John Reid, Park Outdoor - 1 would request that you not act on this moratorium and act on the permits that we applied for under the existing ordinance about a year ago. There were no other comments and the hearing was left open. CITIZENS PRIVILEGE No comments. COUNTY BRIEFING Mike Lane stated that the county briefing was done last week because he was mixed up about what week it was. COUNCIL PRIVILEGE Cl Grantham - I wanted to talk about a call I got from a: citizen and I'm glad you're here Mike, and Tom, because I really didn't know how to answer him. Buzz Levine, who used to be on the Planning Board contact me. He lives on Ringwood Road and he has tried to get cable service to his house. The cable comes to the corner of his property. A couple of years ago if he had paid them $2,000 they would have put in cable to his house. They've come down some, but it's not reasonable. He wants to know what he can do, what residents in this situation can do, to get it at the same cost as their next door neighbor who has it, and if there is anything in the negotiating to deal with this. Supv Varvayanis stated he had talked with Mr. Levine and the distance is one telephone pole, 500 feet or so. Page 1 of 37 N .r, Q• 1'B 2 -14-01 Cl T Hatfield - I've spent some time negotiating on that issue. They have some very interesting guidelines that they have to follow. There are a. lot of spots without it in the Town of Dryden. 1'd like to see the whole town wired, for cable and for internet access, with the issues 16 that are out there today with fiber optics and other channels coming along. They're pretty set on their guidelines at the moment at lead:. Cl Grantham - So you're saying he should be able to get it? Cl T Hatfield - Well, it sounds like he's saying something different than what the facts are. I know from talking with Time Warner, now AOL Time Warner, they're interested in providing service, but they're not interested in unfairly extending funds to capital costs. The $2,000 here is the issue. I don't know how to articulate it very well without giving it some thought, but I can show you what they're talking about. I talked to Buzz. M Lane - The standard is how many homes per mile that they have to build to. Presently they build if there are 20 homes in a mile. The proposal that the consortium put out, of course the Town of Dryden is not a part of that consortium, is we requested it to be reduced to 15 homes per mile. That: is the subject of negotiation. C1 T Hatfield - I think we were talking, and I'd have to check my notes, I think they agreed to 16. But that's all subject to negotiation. But that still may not help someone in Buzz's position. There are several people I've talked to in the community who's neighbor may have it, but to get from their neighbors pole to their house could be a quarter of a mile. That's pretty much the limiting factor. What's really made it very much a focus is Roadrunner. Everybody wants access to Roadrunner. There's access through the phone line, but the Roadrunner product definitely puts people in the mindset that they'd like to access the web through Roadrunner. if Cl Grantham - Currently it's 20 homes per mile, so if within the next mile there are 20 homes who want cable they would put it in? Supv Varvayanis - Would they have to sign up, or do they just have to be available. Cl T Hatfield - I think it's just available. Every time you raise the issue, they come out and measure. 141 Walbridge - Living on Hunt Hill, I have looked into it for a number of years, but I think most people who live in rural areas feel outraged that no matter how much building gets done beyond them, the cable companies want to use the other citizens as a way of funding their capital costs. I think most people aren't going to be interested in being hit for $1000 or $2000 to help the cable company make money. I hope that the County does look into this because there are a lot of people in rural areas that would like more services, and they feel totally hamstrung by the cable company because they just don't seem interested in helping people. Buzz is only 500 feet and they aren't interested in helping. There are a lot of us that are further, and the cable companies have made no effort: to help people in our cicumstances. Cl T Hatfield - I don't know that I agree definitely interested in their bottom line. They interested in making investments that aren't gi franchise rights. That's why we negotiate with in the town wired. Hopefully there will come a than later, with everything you said, but I think they are are a for profit: organization. They aren't ping to give them a return. They exist by them. I would be in favor of seeing every house time when that will happen and sooner rather Supv Varvayanis - Since Mike brought it up, is this the time to discuss the pros and cons of joining the County? Page 2 of 37 TS 2-14 -01 is Cl T Hatfield - I'm not really prepared to discuss it tonight, but we can talk about it. Mike and I have talked a couple of times. 1 know the County is engaged in an ongoing process. We have as well. M Lane . It's a consortium, not the County. I'm just the County representative to the consortium. Supv Varvayanis - How many municipalities are in the consortium? M Lane - All but four in the County. The Village of Groton, the Town of Dryden, the Town of Newfield and the Town of Danby are not part of the consortium. C1 T Hatfield - We chose not to be a part of the consortium as 1 recall because we felt the consortium was being driven to some extent by the City of Ithaca, that has a different set: of needs with respect to cable provision. The second issue was the consortium chose to pursue a consultant and the cost of a consultant and those costs are being passed back to the consortium participants. Personally, I'm not sure that's the right way to go, but that was the decision made by those that sit at that table. I haven't seen where that direction has led to a conclusion. On the other hand, the direction we've been going hasn't led to a conclusion either. Maybe it's time to revisit the issue. 1'd certainly be willing to sit down with Mike and talk about it again, Supv Varvayanis - If we were to join the consortium now and one of the reasons was that we didn't want to pay, would you be looking for a buy -in for past expenses on this consultant? You probably aren't prepared to say. ® M Lane - The largest cost has been born by the City. There have been some passed down, and I can't tell you exactly what it was. It wasn't a huge share. I would think that if you were to join the consortium, they would want you to ante up at least that amount. But if there is interest now, I'd be glad to find out an answer to that question. Supv Varvayanis to C1 T Hatfield - Much of this is really committee work, so why don't you talk with Mike. Cl T Hatfield - We'll see if it makes sense. If there is something that we could do that would help the consortium or vice versa, we should look at it. M Lane - These negotiations are very, very hard and I don't imagine that they're that much easier for individual municipalities. One of the reasons is the leverage which the municipalities have frankly over the years has been chipped away, so there are only certain things that we can regulate and it makes it very hard for us. C1 T Hatfield - Our experience parallels each other along those lines. I agree with that. I think that's in part, as you say, regulatory changes by the FCC. It's similar in a lot of ways, its the same set of laws, with respect to towers. Control is being taken away from the local municipalities. M Lane - What has happened to the Dryden Lake Park Committee? I don't believe it met all of last year. Is it going to be revived, or is it gone? Cl Grantham - Joyce Gerbasi has asked that the responsibility be rolled into the Conservation Advisory Council. She was on the Dryden Lake Committee, too. I think that the CAC, I haven't said anything to them, but they'd probably be willing, although it seems that Page 3 of 37 TB 2 -14 -01 maybe it could be a subcommittee %vith some of the people who were on the Dryden Lake Committee before. 9 Supv Varvayanis - Why don't I bring it tip at the next CAC meeting. M Cane - I had one person come to me and talk about the trail that they like to use to hike on. They thought somebody had gone down through with a snowmobile. They thought that that actually made it a more usable trail because it to some exrtent had groomed the snow down, and they were wondering, even though that snowmobile on there was illegal, was there some way that they could be groomed on a regular basis to make it easier for people to walk on. Like driving something down through. Supv Varvayanis - We don't have any grooming equipment. We'd have to buy something. M Lane - But I promised I would relay that concern to you folks. Supv Varvayanis - Anything else? (no) Is the auditing done? Cl Grantham - I'll move the abstract. RESOLUTION #88 - APPROVE ABSTRACT # 102 Cl Grantham offered the following resolution mid asked for its adoption: RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby approves Abstract # 102, as audited, Vouchers #76 through #158, totaling $665,306.39. • 2nd Cl T Hatfield Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes Supv Varvayanis Yes Cl Grantham Yes At 7:27 p.m. Supv Varvayanis asked if there was any further comment regarding the billboard moratorium, there was none and the public hearing was closed. RESOLUTION #89 - ADOPT LOCAL LAW FOR THIRD MORATORIUM ON BILLBOARDS Cl Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby adopts Local Law #3 of 2001 as follows: V� Section 1. Title. This local law shall be referred to the Third Temporary Moratorium on the Establishment of Outdoor Advertising billboards in the Town of Dryden. Section 2. Definition. An "Outdoor Advertising Billboard" means any device, object or building facade situated on private premises and used for advertising goods, services or places other than those directly related to the premises on which said sign is located. Section 3. Purpose. The Town of Dryden zoning ordinance was initially adopted over 30 years ago. The zoning ordinance contained certain provisions loosely regulating Outdoor Advertising Billboards. Since the adoption of the zoning ordinance, the New York Court of Appeals has ruled that local governments may regulate the Pale 4 of 37 f TB 2 -14 -01 time, place and manner of commercial speech (as opposed to its contents) to effectuate a significant governmental interest and the regulation of aesthetics constitutes such an interest. Current town of Dryden zoning ordinance regulations do not prohibit Outdoor Advertising Billboards, and to many persons, such signs are aesthetically objectionable in a rural town and if misplaced, often are egregious examples of ugliness, distraction and deterioration. The Town through the Planning Board has undertaken a review of the Town Comprehensive Plan and has recently conducted a town -wide survey of residents to solicit their input on recommendations for updated local ordinances. Pending the receipt of a final draft of the Town Comprehensive Plan, the Town Board is concerned about the lack of restrictions on the placement of Outdoor Advertising Billboards in light of the Court of Appeals decisions. In order to preserve the environment and to provide for an orderly discussion of identified and yet unidentified concerns about Outdoor Advertising Billboards in a lawful, thoughtful and reasoned manner, the Town Board determines that it must declare a third, but shorter, moratorium on the establishment of any Outdoor Advertising Billboards pending the enactment of appropriate local legislation further regulating, prohibiting, or requiring the removal of the same. Since the original moratorium became effective on June 16, 2000, the Town Board has engaged the services of a consultant who has conducted a thorough review of the existing conditions that relate to Outdoor Advertising Billboards. The consultant has inventoried the Outdoor Advertising Billboards in the Town of Dryden and examined the current Town of Dryden regulations pertaining thereto. The consultant presented drafts of his comprehensive report to the 'town Board. In addition to the inventory of and analysis of the existing is regulations, the reports contain a thorough discussion of stage and federal regulations, other approaches to regulation in New York State, a discussion of relevant court cases, a study of the effectiveness of Outdoor Advertising Billboards as a marketing tool, and recommendations for Town of Dryden regulations. The reports also contain a survey of other municipal regulations, a survey of Outdoor Advertising Billboard users, and illustrative examples of Outdoor Advertising Billboard designs. The report has been accepted by the Town Board. The Town Board has disseminated the report to the public, received comments, and proposed changes to the Town of Dryden regulations. More time is needed to enact the changes to the zoning ordinance, including drafting the changes, conducting a public hearing thereon and publishing the notice of adoption of the approved changes. Based on all of the foregoing, it is necessary for an additional, but shorter, moratorium. Section 4. Prohibitions. No person, firm or corporation shall construct or submit any application for an Outdoor Advertising Billboard to the Code Enforcement Officer during the effective period of this moratorium. The Code Enforcement Officer shall not accept any application for an Outdoor Advertising Billboard and shall not issue any permit for the same during the effective dates of this local law. The Town Board shall not hold any public hearing on any pending applications for Outdoor Advertising billboards during the effective dates of this local law. The Zoning Board of Appeals shall not entertain any appeal of any order, requirement, decision, interpretation, or determination made by the Code Enforcement Officer during the effective dates of this local law if the same pertains to Outdoor Advertising Billboards. Page 5 of 37 TB 2 -144)1 Section 5. Invalidity. The Invalidity of any provision of this local law shall not effect the validity of any other provision which can be given effect without such invalid provision. Section 6. Term. This local law shall be in effect for a period of 60 days from its effective date unless sooner repealed. Section 7. Effective Date. This local law shall take effect on filing with the Secretary of State as provided by the provisions of the Municipal Horde Rule Law, and it is further RESOLVED, that the Town Clerk is directed to file the same with the New York State Department of State. 21,1d Cl T Hatfield Roll Call Vote COUNCIL PRIVILEGE None ATTORNEY None TOWN CLERK Cl T Hatfield Yes Supv Varvayanis Yes Cl Grantham Yes Cl Grantham had some changes and questions with respect to the minutes and the Board and Clerk discussed those. RESOLUTON #90 - APPROVE MINUTES Cl Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby approves the minutes of October 25, 2000, November 1, 2000, November 8, 2000, December 6, 2000, December 20, 2000, January 3, 2001 and January 4, 2001 as amended. 2nd Cl T Hatfield Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes Supv Varvayanis Yes Cl Grantham Yes The trial balance for tax collection was distributed, $3.8 million has been collected to date. Information regarding the 2001 Town Clerk's Conference to be held in Buffalo in April and Town Clerk asked to attend. The costs to attend were figured in the budget for the year. RESOLUTION #91 - AUTHORIZE CLERK TO ATTEND NYS CONFERENCE Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: Page 6 of 37 r TB 2 -14 -01 RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby authorizes the Town Clerk to attend the 2001 New York State Town Clerk's Conference and any necessary expenditureS- nd Cl Grantham Roll Call vote Cl T Hatfield Yes Supv Varvayani-s Yes 1 Grantham Yes B Holleabeck - We had a second meeting of the reorganized Recreation partnership yesterday. A first draft of the by -Laws prepared by the by -laws committee was reviewed. It will take at least one more meeting to complete those - The County Attorney has prepared a draft of the agreement to be ,signed by the municipalities which really is just a one pie document that says the municipalities agree to the proposal previously distributed and it will be attached, since the proposal itself had already been approved by all the municipalities. We went aver a format that will be used for reporting on the programs soon after they end, as far as what the attendance was. where the panic- ipants came from, the cost to run it, and haw volunteers were utilized- I've grit another meeting the week after next to discuss the fnrwat to be used for a treasurer's report to track the budget, etc. Newfield is being pressured by some of its citizens to join the partnership. The Newfield PTA has set aside three years worth of ,finds to cover their membership fees. ENGINEERING Dave Putnam - Nothing further on Sapsucker Woods Road other than the fact that they marked it out yesterday for us to look at. 1 T Hatfield - You were going to talk to NYSEG about that dry hydrant. D Putnam - I did talk with the-w and they've given ute inforruation- T've got to draft' a leirteT for you to send off to them, ZONING OFFICER $later - You have my report and you also have a doct=ent there that John Reid of Park Outdoor asked me to provide you with relative to the off pzeraises signage. You spoke about dr}F hydrants and Matt Shulman has some insight to some grant money for establishing and installing dry hydrants, which may work with the project a,t the old NY SEG facility, Matt Shulman - I amsume you are familiar with the County's 001 Flood Hazard Mitigation Program. I started with Frnicc# Impact i,n the beguumig of January and the first viable grant opportunity for us was the County Flood Hazard Mitigation Program. The County has $25,000 in total and will receive applic�atioTks from seven to ten municipalities for project that if approved would receive a 1/3 share from the Coxrnty, 1/3 from the municipality and 1/3 from the property owners (in cash or in ki;tid) - Craig Schutt from Boil and Water Conservation told me that he'd had a call from some people in the Yellow Barb creek area who had come to a previous Town Board and for which the previous Town Hoard had sit money on a comprehenSlive engineering study for a permanent solution to the Yellow Barn project. They were not displeased, but did not have the pockets to afford that- I went out with Chris Cicora and Craig Schutt on different occasions and visited the properties and property owners at at least two meetings. Of the 14 property owners we have ten and possible eleven who have already signed up for the proposal I have distributed to you. We visited the properties, walked the stream bank property by property, trying to define w40 hat could be done within the limits of a small grant that would be cost effective and would be i risk effective as well- Their primary suggestion is bio -re mediation, which is plantings and use Pj&C 7 of 37 193 2=14mCl of a new technology, seeded biomatting. Iii some cases that would be sufficient, In others there would be additional planti.rigs necessary for soil .retention, Most of the residents felt comfortable about the costs and the risks involved- We made it very clear there were some risks involved. It would require them watering them regularly and if there is a m4. 9or flood event before the seeding is established, it will go down 1 he creek. We were clear about that and they understood that, wild the Board needs 1'o understand that. There were some real questions raised by the residents about slowing the stream velocity and seeing if we would possibly do sorne thing more than just the plantings an the sides. Ifs appendix A you'll see the aerial view has eight yellow bars on it representing where Chris and Craig would like to put in sills, Coffer clams, or cgnaU stone structures that might come up about a foot or two above the ambient surface of the water to serve two functions. Not to impound water, but to cause th-e inter to hit it and go over it, lasing some of the energy, then as it So er> over it, make small pools where further energy is released. With this pries of eight small coffer dams in the space between north r,f Perguson Road as far as Route 13, they believe that in concert with the plantings while certainly not as effective as the half million dollar project, would o&r a good solution. I am going to be speaking to the Fall Creek Watershed Committee on Uw first of March to invirt� or solicit their participation in doing some further cross sections up the creek to see if we can find some ather low cost solutions. The Plan is in WA) phases, the basic and the intense. The basic is simply the planting portion of it for a total cost of $8,550. The property owners are responsible for a third of it- Many of them Qre planning to do the work themselves. There is talk of a boy scout group roirnmg .in and doing the whole project as a community event. The danced proposal would be an additional $6,500, bargmg the total project cast to $15,050. The responsibility of the Town should you approve thls and should it be funded by the County would be some $5,018, which could be iii cash or in kind. Do you havc any questions, because I've come to you tonight to present this and also to ask if you'd feel comfortable making a resolution in support of this, because that is required as a portion of the submission to the County. 1 Grantham asked who did the stone dam design and was told that it was dorxe by Clxris icora- He used some of the data from the previous study in terms of cubic feet per second and existing data to sketch the approximate locations. If approved by the Co=ty some cross sections will .need to be done for tj.ie exact placement of the strictures. The cost share on the structures is different than the cost share of the planting improvements in that the $6 ,500 inns divided by the number of participa -ti Wig landowners since ibe benefits don't really improve the places that are contiguous to tie structures- It would be art additional $140 to 10 per family should they agree to accept it. It was made clear to the property owners that even if the county approves the applica�nn, the implementation of the enhanced version is contingent upon the property owners wilJan mess to do so. Supv Varvayanis - Mahlon, this is now a neighborhood project not individuals and there are culverts and such downstream that we are protecting,, so are you comfortable with this? Atty Perkins - Nell, it's more than one property owner, it is not an isolated incident. upv arvayanis - Might. It's awhole neighborhood and there are culverts down through- Page 8 of ;7 B 2- 14-11 Atry Perkins - What you're going to end up with is a series of contracts bet* -een the Town and the property owner Chat set; foTCh the responsibilities - Taken ss a wbOle, it probably m -Tould pass muster- C1 T Hatfield - From an engineering point of view, Dave, have you seen this? 1) Putnam - No, Cl T Hatfield - These coffer darns? D Putnam - They'll work in the low Cow events, It won't work in the bigger flood event, because it will be so far underwater, C1 T Hatfield - Will they survive? 1) Putnam - If they're big enough, yes, Atty Perldns - Is there anything in the plazi the provides for the anchoring of these mats until they're established? One of the concerns I think the Town should look at is if those things do wash out and plug up the culvert under Yellow Barn Road, you mould have a real mess. M Schulman - There is an item in the budget for stakes to fastest them down- GI T Hatfield - F`rom what we 've discussed in the past and knowing the work that was done on that previous study, f chink this looks like a. pretty decent approach. I certainly think that a might watt to look at it as a project we could support. - That would be my optruon, I just think it's the first step of many. It's a long way from what, we envisioned -in the study, but they say the longest journey starts with the first step. This looks like a series of first steps. It might make some settee- Certainly anythurig that can be done to help that particular area I think will enhance Route 13. 1 think there's a public benefit, D Putnam - Oo people reaUze how far they are going to have cut these banks back to stabilize their? Shulman - Chris was -pretty clear in explaining he needs to cut the banks back to 45 to 50 degrees. There are a couple of places where that is not possible because there are structures in the way, Gl Gran tham - I think they did farm what they said at the meeting on Sun&y. In fact there was one landowner who said they didn't warkt to participate because it would be such a big cut. There was enough discussion that I certainly got the sense that they had a pretty gond idea how deep the cuts would be. M Shulman - Nobody is representing this as a pennunent solution. There's no way we can turn a $15,000 project into 7lie benefits of a half i on dollar project. Cl T Ha-tSeld - But it's also a first step. 114 Shulman - I'm also pLeasyed with the community participation aspect, We hope that will be a model we can use again m other parts of the Town. We've got signatures from most of the property owners and I've got meetings set up with a few more. We've got more than half signed up and other orally committed, ..-0 Page 4 of 37 TB 2 -1# -01 RESOLUTION #92 - SUPPORT FLOOD HAZARD MITIGATION APPLICATION Cl #yrantham offered the follou*ing resolution and asked for its adoption: WHEREAS, some residents of the Yellow Bain area cif iha Town of Dryden have experienced damage from flvo ding in past clue to the inability of the banks of Yellow Barn Creek to contain creek flow during flood events, and WHEREAS, those residents have approached the Town of Dryden for assistance in protecting their property, axid WHEREAS, an application has been prepared and will be submitted to Tompl ns County for funding pursuant to the 2001 :Flood liazard Mitigation Program, -uow, therefore, be it R F.:SOLVET), that the Town Board of the Town of Dryden hereby declares its support for the application submitted under the 2001 round of the Tompkins County Flood Hazard Mitigation PrograTa, and urges Tompkins Counly to fund its portion of this project- 1 i C1 T HatEeld Roll Call Vote C1 T.Hatfield Yes Supv Varvayara's Yes C1 Grantham Yes SuPv Varvayanis - Jack heard that we were interested in having the l-lighwary Department do some of the work as in kind labor, and he said that he didn't want to get into worldr3g an private property- Sut that's not going w be a problem if Ibis becomes a project is its Atty Perkins - And there's a license to go on the property. We've prepared a form for zs use for temporary permismion to go on private property in order to perform maintenance. Shulman. asked wh.effier it was advisable to collect a. deposit from I',be property owners and Atty Perkins advised against that stating that it was putting the Tawas in the position of trusl:ee and the property owners should sign an agreement that they will pay the co St, Shulman - With respect to Project Impact, Svc are looking for a sip -ring ceremony with FEMA. I spoke this afternoon with Maurice Iiinchey's office and Marty Luster's office and they seem to be leaning toward Friday, May IS. I'll keep you advised. Sul v Varvayaxlzs - $ryan Ramsey is here- Do you have a presentation or were you hoping to have question-s. Brian Ramsey - 1 Wasn't sure what you wanted. Supv Varvayatiis - Okay, just bearing the experience you've had, what has and hasn't worked in Tully. B Ramsey - Fro-w what I understand the situation is similar, but yet a. little different. With our Fire, 1..MS and Emergency Services in Tully, we .have devel vod in tb v town of Tully an ambulance district for the purpose of billing, With that the employees are part of the town of Tully employees. We are stationed in the fire house in Tully, Prior to just recently we were Page ]Oaf 37 TB 2 -14 -01 functioning as EMS providers, buC did some of the clerical work and those' types of duties for the fire distract and we work very closely with the fire district. Presently we are now firhter f paramedic civil.ervice, so we are actually functioning both duties with the fire district and the ambulance district- Oux fire district is a joint fire district, it's not a village fire district. The hierarchy is we have our Town Board as the ultimate employer. Under them we have two sets of commissioners1 one is the fire coma mssioners and one is the EMS or ambulance district commissioner. Thera it sort of funnels down to my position as director of operations for the ambulance service side of things to cart of supervise the paid staff and to take care of any of the benefits and employee -type problems that are going on- Our Fire Chief is. which is probably the only way it can work, ultimately the responsible party for any time of emergency calls or emergency operations. We all report to him during those t)'ges of operations. I can't stress enough the working relationship a have with our axe department. We all work as a team and it's not us against them type ,scenario up there, We've tmen very in tune to that because of other places in Onondaga County where that has happened. The communicaM- n breaks down between the two orgauizations, so we are very positive about open communications and we work well with each other. I undeTsCand that's similar to what's going on down here, but I'm ratr really sure urhat's going on down here - upv Varvaya.rus - Without the communication, yes, B Ramsey - Some of the biggest things that I can tell you, and some of the scuttlebutt that is heard out in the EMS curnmurdty is that you've got to make sure if you've gat paid staff that you've got one person who is going to oversee that. You can't have three or four different. people coming at the staff and giving their direcrion. It really needs to 13e funneled through one person. On the fire. side of it or on the emergency side of it, you've got to follow the chain of command with your chief officers and work together. (a upv Varvayanis - You frequently talk about both fine and ambulance. The two districts are coterminous r in Tully? S Ramsey - Correat- Supv Varvayanis - We have different districts so we have more problems that way - B Ramsey - In the Town of Tully there is one fine district and one ambulance district, although the ambulance district obviously goes out to other commuraties to provide EMS service. in the Town of Tully there's just the two entities, We go into the Town of Otisco, Town of Lafayette an.d Town of Fabius and mutual aid for the Town of Preble- I guess I'm not clear on what some of your concerns or problems are- Jiro Buckley - f have been appointed the lead paramedic in Dryden. I think since the last meeting when you did appoint me, for the most part 97% of all the problems that were being presented at the last meeting have been resolved. Prior to my appointment we didn't have anyone to direct issues to and we didn't know who was in control. It's been fairly clearly outlined that the paid staff is to cone to me, and I address the Town as well as the Fire Department and that is working out very well_ Obviously this is a month into things and I'm having a little hit of gTownig pains still, however I dlzink of the issues have smoothed nut. I think that the working relations that have been seen in the past do not exist at this time- We all have a very good working relationship down there- We all get along Very well. Rick, the Chief of the Fire Department, and Ron, the Deputy Chief, periodically meet with me- Kate, as EMS Chief, and I have meet gs periodically. We've been able to keep Marks apprised as to what's going on. A lot of things have been smoothing themselves out with the appointment of 16 the position. R44e I I of 37 TS 2 -14 -01 I think Brim has a vast amounit of kni)wle.dge that he can give us and maybes we can pick his brain for doings that we can do to help ourselves, but overall, I think 1h. in s are going well with the department and us working together. Cl T Hatfield - How large is Tufty in terms of physical sixes and population? 13 Ramsey - Just under 3,000 is the population. We have two fire stations, one in Vesper and the main station is in the Village of Tully_ It used to be the Village of Tully District_ Nine years ago they decided to dissolve the village and make it a joint fire district be -hveen the Town and Village, which has its own commissioners and really has nothing to do with either town government, They set up their own budget and they are the finial say on that. C1 T Hatfield - They are the 1.2X irg authority. There are a ]at of those that have faire. Commissioners and they have the abitily to impose a fire tax. B Ramsey - And they started with paid staff about eight years, Paid staff for the ambulance for the Rr- t four years and then into fire and ambulance after that. There are .paid staff and volunteers on both sides. I cooperate with the Chief and he cooperates with me as far as getting the job done_ We make sure the Focus is on delivering service to the community, Ft's very easy for litlJe teams to develop and territorial issues. As long as we can keep everyone's focus on why we are there, it seems to work out, well. I talked to ,lam when he first came over here and my feeling is that you 've got a, good service here and you just need. to work out some of the bugs and gel' some of the personalities to calm clown a little bit. You've got a very good reputation in the EMS community m-id the hospital community for providing quality care, and that's what's it's all about_ What I hear from people that I lcrnou* that live in your community, they're very happy with the service both on the fire and the ammu.lance side. You don't always hear that and it's good to hear. C1 T H.atGeld - That's goad to hear. What I hear today is about: peoplic having less and less time to volunteer in the fire department. or EMS service, and that became more complicated with the government imposing all the education requizements. That's not a bad thing, but I worry about years from noxv that ,%T're note going to have the ability to nave an all volunteer fire department. B Ramsey - I don't think you'll be able to stay a total volunteer fire department with the size of your community, the call volume, the nnw mandates that are going i;o be put on the fire, side of it. response t1me, education, OSHA requirements, etc- Bu eldey - I can honestly tell you that probibly within two to three years you're going to be looking for ire as well as EMS personnel, Sorge days the call response is great and there are days that qLvc have hardly anybody. This is a_ problem duiing the day, not necessarily the cven'ng, 1 recently had to call for assistance oxn a fall arrest; 't44xich I ended up taking by myself because we could not pull manpower. We can typically pull a couple of people together, but sometimes we ateri't able to get the assistance that's needed. The volunteers are great and help out 150%, but more and more are working outside of the community and companies these days don't always allow i1eir individuails to le =ave work to too the calls_ Our EMS call voluaaze is just. 15000 this year and we were pretty much utdiaing TLC and Bangs for about 2 months. B Ramsey - Tully does a total of 700 catlw a year and we have five full time firefighterfpararaxedics covering our district. Cl T Hatfield - F think as a community we need to be focused on this_ The providers are already focused au it. We heard it when we first started tall i g about the need for an ambuOance district. There's been a loss of qualified personnel that %vor1c out of the area, Page 12 of 37 T8 2- 14-01 especially during the days. In the next three to five years I think we need to be prepared to deal with that issue. B Ramsey - Talk to any of your volunteer groups, your legions, your Kiwanis Clubs, Elks, whatever, and find out where their volunteer people are. It's not like it was 25 years ago, the volume of volunteers has declined. One other aspect to think about is that: you have people moving in to your town and volunteerism has never been a part of their life. They pay their taxes and they expect the service. The good old boys and girls that used to go down to the firehouse and get up in the middle of the night are not there. Our whole society has changed in that way. I talked to Jim before, and we're available for advice, just give us a call. We're willing to give anybody a hand. It's working very well for us. We've got a system up there that's working very well. K Witty - We have lots of volunteers at night, but during the day it's the same four driving. I'm fortunate to be able to leave work to go on calls, but besides Dana Abbey and Doug Cotterill, there aren't very many people who can leave work during the day and respond to these calls. Our guys are getting old. Howard Keech and Jim Hulslander are seventy -some years old. We have a shortage of drivers during the day. I have off duty police officers coming in during the day to help us out, but I still have three or four shifts a week during the daytime that are open. Soon we'll have to look at hiring EMT/ drivers, J Buckley - We have a lot of brand new paramedics and we'll be facing bring some new people on and realistically, you're pretty much going to end up with new people because there is a shortage of paramedics. Everybody is looking. You'll end up with new paramedics and they're a little bit nervous, and they have a driver that has no knowledge whatsoever and overall are not much help other than lifting the patient, helping them walk out, and driving the truck. There are times when you just need that second hand and it kind of intimidates the newer people not having anyone to help them. Within the year, giving; consideration to the elderly gentlemen, and we would never try to shoo them away, you're probably going to be looking at hiring a driver /EMT, at least for the days. And if you truly look at the evenings, we probably have a base of 15 -18 people that really are very active, but basically Dryden Ambulance relies on about 10 volunteers for the most part. They are putting in 500 -600 hours volunteer time. These are your primary people. If those people left we would be without an ambulance service. Supv Varvayanis - He wants to advertise for more part timers and I said go ahead. J Buckley - Will you take care of that? Supv Varvayanis - You write it up and give Dianne the purchase order or whatever it is. B Ramsey - For the future you should seriously consider the fire and EMS side. You get more bang for your buck. Cl T Hatfield - I think Kate's suggestion of getting the committee together with you in a less formal setting is a good. I'd appreciate that.. We also have to consider that don't close our eyes to the fact that this is housed at Neptune, but we also have Varna, Etna, Freeville. Supv Varvayanis - That was my concern. How incredibly impossible will it be to create one district, or use multiple districts that somehow overlap so that we can use one employee to do fire and EMS? B Ramsey - Do you have different fire districts within the Town? Page B of 37 TB 2 -14 -01 Atty Perkins - No. There's one fire protection district which is the entire Town except the Villages of Dryden and Freeville and that fire protection district contracts with the different companies. 0 B Ramsey - It would be a mutual aid type agreement, Cl T Hatfield - I need to understand that better. The To%%m Board is the governing body for that fire protection district in terms of the taxing authority. I think there are some things that we need to look at and bring some of these folks together because I expect this is not a singular issue. It's not just Neptune. We're the biggest Town in the County with a population of some 14,000 people. Some parts of the community are transient and some are stable. B Ramsey - Onondaga County is currently looking at having county employees stationed at volunteer houses. Supv Varvayanis - I)o you have anything else to report about the ambulance restocking. J Buckley - The article that you asked me to look into, I've been unable to find that. (Cl T Hatfield provided a copy) I'll research this more and get back to you. I did have one other issue I wanted to speak on. We were in a situation a couple of weeks ago that brought our attention to the fact that our radio communications within some of the response areas are terrible. In the Virgil /Harford area we really have no communications with Cortland County. Two Fridays ago we were called for a possible full arrest, possible unattended death, after being there a few minutes we were held at gunpoint for a while. A brief period of time, however, we needed assistance. We knew we had a police officer approximately 25 minutes away. We couldn't raise Cortland County; we couldn't raise Tompkins County. We tried on cell phones within the truck, we tried Med 10, we tried Med 8. I tried numerous frequencies and was unable to get through. The only way I was able to get through was Med 3 which is our standard for using hospital communications for Cortland Memorial Hospital. Most individuals at that dispatch center shut Med 3 oft because it's a lot of static. I was very lucky that somebody was being nosey and they heard us. We were able to get the assistance that we needed. J Buckley stated they have looked into new portables, but that isn't really going to help in that kind of a situation because they couldn't get out from the truck. He has spoken with the Chiefs and the Sheriff of Cortland County and he believes they will be putting Cortland frequencies, both Sheriff and Fire, into their radios so they can communicate with them. But there will be times when that %%U not be a foolproof system, and probably nothing will be. They have looked at a Nextel system. The police here use it, the State uses it. There is a two way function on the system that can be used like a two way radio. It also f unctions as a pager and a. phone. He drove through the areas the ambulance covers, and it does not work in every area, but it did work in several areas that the StarTech did not. He tried both cell phones and was able to use the Nextel more than the StarTech. They can be used to contact other paramedics for assistance even when they are not on duty. $400 can be saved by not having to call for a fly car hookup, and he believes if you save one fly car hookup a month, you've paid for the cost of the system for that month. He receives six or seven calls a day as lead paramedic and the paramedics have decided that they would like some form of communications. TLC says Dryden could tie in to their group to contact them direct if need be. He will check with Bangs also. The police here indicate the ambulance could interconnect with them as well. The communications base would be much greater. The initial cost for the phones is $300 for four phones and the monthly fee would be $226, including 500 free minutes of service, unlimited two way talk and unlimited paging. All individuals are willing to pay for puny usage over the 500 minutes. He suggests setting caps on this if possible. Itemized billing is available and it turns out to be used for more of a private phone than a business phone, the • individuals will pay half the monthly cost. The fire department is looking into the same thing Pagc 14 of 37 TB 2 -14401 for their trucks. The ambulance department will pay for the phones, and they would like the Town to pick up the monthly bill. Supv Varvayanis stated he thought it would help communications. Cl Grantham stated that it made sense, and Cl T Hatfield stated they should get the itemized billing. Atty Perkins stated it should be clear what the participation of the ambulance employees in this agreement as there is a significant potential for abuse. Atty Perkins - Why is the Town involved in this? Isn't really part of the ambulance contract, and their responsibility to provide communications? Traditionally it: hasn't been a Town function. It is really part of the furnishing of ambulance service. Cl T Hatfield - Stated that the system would certainly allow for better communication. Atty Perkins - It really comes down to every time they have something break down are you going to come to the rescue, or is that part of the cost of them carrying out their contract. It's a decision you have to make. Do you have to buy a new ambulance for them, or is that something that they plan a reserve fund for and they put away part of what they earn every year into a fund, instead of you coming and bailing them out because they need a new ambulance? Supv Varvayanis - I agree that this is something that is normally part of a contract, but this is something that came up in the middle of the year for an obvious reason. I don't know how much you call it a precedent, on the other hand we do pay them well into the six digits and we also just increased their budget $30,000 a month ago. Cl T Hatfield - I'm inclined to say we're receptive to that, but I'd like to have a little more dialogue and know how it fits. Supv Varvayanis - I'd like to see them get the phones though. J Buckley - I'll schedule something with Ron and Rick and see if their budget can handle it and from there come a little better prepared. Cl T Hatfield - This is one of those issues where I'd like to authorize the Supervisor to take action on it if it's appropriate between now and our next meeting. I'd like to see the communication issues dealt with. Maybe we need a committee meeting. RESOLUTION #93 - AUTHORIZE SUPERVISOR RE: AMBULANCE PHONES Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby authorizes the Supervisor to further investigate obtaining cell phones with two way radio and paging capabilities for ambulance employees, and to enter into a contract for service if he deems it appropriate. 2nd Cl Grantham Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes Supv Varvayanis Yes Cl Grantham Yes Supv Varvayanis - Since a. letter came from the Chief Counsel, Inspector General of the Department of Health and Human Services, I was kind of suspicious if that fellow was actually ® reading The Ithaca Journal, so I called Dan Lamm at Maurice I•Iinchey's office today and my suspicions were correct. He read the original article and sent it down there and got this Page 15 of 37 TS 2 -14-01 response. He then brought this response to Cayuga Medical Center and they're having their attorneys look at it. .1t appears that they are mistaken, that they can still supply ambulances, but they haven't come out with a formal opinion yet. So it may be that you are out of the is restocking business in the next: few days. Cl Grantham - floes the ambulance district have a capital plan for replacing equipment, since this has come up? Atty Perkins - The ambulance district doesn't, the ambulance provider does. Cl Grantham - I guess it's something that we should look at and maybe make it a capital plan for the district. Atty Perkins - Now you are taking a giant step out of handled. The district doesn't own anything. We contract for equipment, the volunteers. We furnish up to three frill time paramedics. They own the ambulances, equipment, radios. and some software. That's a big step if you are going to do t capital plan. the traditional sway this has been the service. They furnish the paramedics and part time I guess maybe we own a computer hat. You could ask to see their Supv Varvayanis - We could request a little more reporting. Cl Grantham - I think it would be good to look at it. R Flynn - If I'm not mistaken, you get a CPA report every year. What more do you want? Supv Varvayanis - Your long term projections are different than a CPA's audit of the is year that: passed. R Flynn - We do have a reserve fund for replacement of ambulances as well with the fire contract for replacing fire apparatus. Supv Varvayanis - Possibly we just need a little more dialogue before the contract is signed. C1 Grantham - I' just asking since this came up. Maybe upgrading communi m. cations as time goes on is something that should be considered in a capital plan. Supv Varvayanis - You can understand. We just signed the contract six weeks ago and we've talked about items twice since then. Since we're already talking about radios and communications, maybe we should get on to the towers part. Mahlon, I asked you to discuss a little bit your understanding of it. Atty Perkins - As I understand it, we all know the Town of Dryden as well as a number of other Towns have tower siting laws. And in effect that's sort of a land use regulation. The County has taken the position that they are totally exempt from compliance with those laws and they're not going to involve the Towns in any dialogue regarding compliance with any of those provisions. There is in New York a Court of Appeals case which basically threw out the old distinction between whether something was a. governmental function or proprietary function to determine whether or not one municipality had to comply with the provisions of another if they were doing something within that municipality. The Court of Appeals replaced that with what they call a balancing of the public interest test. Basically which this is is a test that the Courts look at to determine whether or not: one municipality will have to comply with • the provisions of another's local law or ordinance regulating certain activities. There are Page 16 of 37 TB 2- 14-0i several factors which the Courts look at. One is, is there a legislative intent that there be an exemption and that's usually expressed in the statute which allmvs one government to take that type of action. The next is the nature and scope of the instrumentality seekang the immunity from the others' requirements, In this case it would be the County sccl6ng immunity from the Town of Dryden's Cower law, The third fac #or is the kind of function or the land use involved_ The fourth factor is the extent of the publi c interest to be served by the activity or the project.. The fifth factor is the effect a local land use regulation would have upon the project which is con<nmed. In this case it would be the tower:x_ Wbel'her or not compliance with the regulating municipality if you v4Till, compliance with the regulations would have an impact upon legitimate local interest. And intergovernmental participation in the developmental process and an opportunity to be heard. That of coarse is something which is going on right now in the SEAR review of this whole thing. Maybe MUce. can speak to the position that the CauLzity is taking with respect to the Towns that axe likely to be host to these towers and their involvement in that process_ But it's certainly far from clear from either the ounty'q position or the Town's position, I think, that the Cokmty would be wholly exempt frrom these tower siting laves_ Now that's not the position they're taking. Lane - Mahlon is wrong when he says What, or ?maybe he's just been misinformed. that the County doesn't intend to have a dialogue with the Towns with respect to their ordinances. They most certainly inWnd to do that. We have taken the position that we do not feel we axe bound by the ordinances bucause this is a legitimate public }purpose, an emergency safety communications systemx. Our attorney feels strongly that it is a very important public purpose and has talked to us about the same balancing ]issues that Mahlon has. We certainly intend to set down with the Towns that have ordinances and say let's talk about your ordinance, let's see what our project looks like, can we comply with, can wm compromise on this, is this something we simply can't change because of the technic;] ]issues. Atty Perkins - Who's the cbairrnan of that committee? M Lane - Barbara Blanchard. Atty Perkins - Well that's not her position. M Lane - I beg to differ, I'd be glad Co have you talk with her about it, Atty Perkins - I have talked with her and got communication from her to that effect, and as a matter of fact her position I thinly mast recently at a meeting wifli Barbara Blanchard, Barb =a Mink and the Town of Caroline Supem'sor was they don't really want to talk about it. This is what they are goirxg to d��_ Mark, do you have some ocher fall on that? upv Varvayanis - At the last meeting I attended last Tuesday., Jonathan flood, the attorney, said Tight out that they would start building, they wouldn't apply for any permits, and if the Towns didn't like, they could sus. Lane - You know Robin Seeley taped that meeting and I'd really wiish you'd play that tape for M2Jalon and others. Joie talked about what an Article 78 proceeding would require and what proof would have to be put forward, He also talked about this balancing test that Mahloq has put forward_ I posed the question because members of this Town Board had asked me shoo# it, whether the Town of Dryden could. be an involved party_ The position of the County is that it would not be an involved party, but an 'interested party. An involved party is someone who for example has a permit requirement, Our position is that that is not the case. However, as an interested party, you would be informediIust the %ame as an involved party. You would have the right to have input the same a; an involved party, `f.'ou simply would not be required to have findings in the SEQR process_ Pago 17 of 37 TB 2 -14-01 C1 Grantham - Aere's more than one part to this project, Mike. Part of it is any of the radios, any of the changes in radio systems and so on that would have to be undertaken by 'towns and VUJ ages if the County changes the whale communications system. And you can't segment that part from the towers themselves. If you dont have radios, what good does the cnrrxmunication system, the tower system, do? As soon as you start looking at that, then the Towns and Villages are going to have to funrl za.dio VzOems, and then they are by defirdti.on an impalved agency_ Because the definition of an involved agency in 617 is "an agency that has Jurisdiction by la %v to fund, approve or directly uzi.dertake an action ", so I think that we are involved agencies because of that funding, value? M Lune - We'd be glad to have you participate m the funding for the towers. Supv Varvayards - Are you saying you're -building the tower strictly for their aesthetic M Lane - Absolutely, Supv Varvayanis - Well T think you'll have a lot of trouble getting an EIS to fly if you say you axes building a tower for aesthetic value- Cl Grantham - You can't separate the equipment that has to go with the towers from the to ;very. You have to look at it together_ M Lane - Most mun,icipalitie:s have came to us asking us to fund that equipment. Supv Varvayanis -But you haven't agreed to do that ye C_ Lane - We have floated several passibilities of sli ring the cost of that. Whether a particular community vbcoses what particular radios is up to that community. I think some of these radios are owned by the C oun.ty if I'm not nnistaken_ The Fire Departments, for example_ We maintain them. Cl Grantham - But what you are sap rig is that you are; regarding the adios as separates from the tower %~ stem and that doesn't make any sense to me. M Lane - Your position is because you have to buy a radio, that therefore you are an involved agency. I don t understarnd that pm ido-tn, 1 Grandria n - Tf we have to change radio equipment in this Town in order i;v benefit from the tower system that you are putting up, then we are funding part of the action that you are undertaking, M Lane - cr Bangs Ambu]ance shoal+ he an involved agency. Cl Grantham - I don't know. Atty Perkins - By definition, no, because they aren't a government entity. :cane - That point was not raised at the ComCap meeting, Supv V�xrvayards - It was raised in my letter to Barbara Mink, M Lane - I didu't see that letter Mark, i would be glad to Jack at it, 10 Pag IScF37 TB 2 -14 -01 ® J Buckley - I'm sorry. I don't know a lot about what's going on here, and I'm certainly not one to get involved with this, but it sounds like you people are arguing over our safety. I don't like that. I understand that somebody's got to be financially responsible, but we are talking about our safety, not money. Cl Grantham - No, we're talking about who has both what right and what responsibility to be involved in the design of this project and the environmental review of this project. We're not talking about whether it should happen or not. M Lane - I would question why this is coming up at this point. This is a county -wide system, it has always been a countywide system. We'd had reports from consultants of the breaking down of our system and the fact that we need to replace this. We've bent over backwards to have this study to make sure that the system we want to go with is the right one. The State also wants to do an 800 megahertz system. We have public safety agencies crying to us to get this done. Supv Varvayanis - What's your question? M Lane - I'm making a statement, Mark. I'm saying I don't understand why.... Supv Varvayanis - Can I explain? Because a letter was written to Barbara Blanchard last April and it xvas never responded to. M Lane - A letter to Barbara Blanchard. Okay, what letter was that? Supv Varvayanis - It was a letter from Don Barber saying that he thought since the Town had a tower siting law they were an involved agency. M Lane - Well, Don was not at the meeting, but I believe he met afterwards with Barbara Blanchard and Barbara Mink as you mentioned. So I think that's the County's position as far as I can see, but I cannot believe that he was gold that there will be no dialogue with the Towns. Supv Varvayanis - Why do you object to the Towns being involved agencies. M Lane - Because I believe this to be a County project. I believe that the ultimate decision about this needs to come out of the County Board. It's a countywide-system. Supv Varvayanis - You're saying the difference between being an interested agency and involved agency is we would not have decision making power. M Lane - You would not be making findings in the SEQR process. That doesn't mean you can't register your opinion in the SEQR process. Supv Varvayanis - But if the County didn't care, tough boogers. M Lane - The ultimate decision would be with the County. Supv Varvayanis - Well, 1 think that's what:... Atty Perkins - Mark, it's also an implicit statement that the Town does not have any regulatory authority if you're not an involved agency. isSupv Varvayanis - I understand that. Rcige 19 of 37 TS 2 -14 -01 Atty Perkins - And that's the position they've taken. • Cl Grantham - But there's also the funding. There's three: fund, approve or directly undertake. And you can argue the regulatory one, but there's also the fiu-iding issue. Atty Perkins - There are certainly locations elsewhere in the State where Counties have worked closely with the Towns to effect a countywide system by respecting local tower siting laws and regulations. Cl Grantham - I don't think anyone in this Town wants to slow down the improvement to the emergency system, Mike, but we do want to be directly involved in it and formally involved as an involved agency. Supv Varvayanis - It's also a responsibility. If we fail to do what 1 consider to be our duty, what's to keep a citizen from not liking; where a tower goes and filing an Article 78 against us and you? And as you darn well know, usually what will lose a Article 78 is that you didn't follow proper procedure. M Lane - Say that again Mark. Supv Varvayanis - If an Article 78 is brought, and the Town and the County work through proper procedures, pretty much whatever you decided will be okayed by the Court. The Court usually overturns if you haven't followed proper procedure. Wouldn't you agree to that? M Lane - Certainly. That's what an Article 78's for. Supv Varvayanis - Right. So if we are correct in that we should be considered an . involved agency and we let the County get away with doing what they want:, even if we think the towers are in exactly the right spot, if we were not an involved agency and we did not urrite findings, that would possibly be a losing Article 78 case if a citizen were to bring it. M Lane - I think the case would be :against the County. Supv Vwwayanis - Yeah, but the point is... M Lane - Because the County would be the agency that would be moving to erect a. tower. Supv Varvayanis - But we were also the ones who didn't do our duty. But that's not the point. The point is there might be a lawsuit brought, and you could lose. M Lane - 1 think the County's legal position on this is a strong one, at least from my hearing of the various weighing of responsibilities here. If the Town's disagree with, I guess the Town will have to do what the Town has to do. But we are going to try to move this project forward as quickly as we can, because the public safety community is asking us to. Supv Varvayanis - But they didn't ask you to do it illegally. You have to admit that: if there is a question, it says right in the ShQR handbook or regulations, if there is a question about what is and what isn't an involved agency then you should consider them an involved agency. M Lana: - We don't consider them to be questions. Page 20 of 37 T13 2 -14401 Supv Varvayanis - You're saying that it's absolutely unquestionable that... I guess there's no point in talking anymore then. In that case I'm looking for a motion. Cl Grantham - Nell, I don't have copies of this. You want: me to make copies and pass it around? Is this the kind of thing you're looking for, that thing that I drew up? Supv Varvayanis - No, because the County already has said that they don't consider us an involved agency. Cl Grantham - What action are you suggesting that we take then? Supv Varvayanis - That I be authorized to do what I feel and Mahlon feels may be necessary to get our position as an involved agency respected. Cl Grantham - Well, I don't think that we have any choice. We wouldn't be exercising due diligence if we didn't Cl T Hatfield - Why is it the County doesn't want us involved? M Lane - It's not that we don't want you involved. It's a technical definition, as it was explained to us in the ComCap committee of what an involved agency vs. an interested agency is. Now Mark, you came in and didn't raise any questions at the meeting. Supv Varvayanis - That's right. I sent a letter stating my views and I was told at that meeting we're going to build, we're not applying for a permit, and if you don't like it sue. What question should I ask? Tell me. M Lane - Well, I would think that you would ask more questions about how the Town would be involved as an interested party. We tried to explain that to you. Supv Varvayanis - I know what the definition of an interested agency is. I know what the definition of an involved agency is and I wrote a letter saying I thought eve were an involved agency. M Lane - All right. I'm not going to get into an argument with you. We'd be glad to have you come to the ComCap meeting. We'd be glad to have more dialogue at that meeting. We'd be glad to talk to you about the Town's concerns. '.Chat continues to be the County's position. Cl Grantham - Tom, if you want my explanation, you know in the Varna 11 process that: we've been going through, the public has some input, different parties had input into the potential environmental impacts, and then we came up with a list of findings by going through the environmental assessment form. But we did those findings, we said there is a potential for such and such impact, and it's exactly the sort of thing that we're thinking can occur and this is the kind of mitigation that be done. If we are an involved agency in some other lead agency's action, we participate in drawing up those findings. If we are an interested agency, we simply can state opinions. Supv Varvayanis - An interested agency really has no more authority or rights than any individual. Cl T Hatfield - Given that explanation and given what I know we spent a lot of time developing in terms of our tower regulations and the desire to be able to make them work iseffectively, 1 think we should be an. involved agency as opposed to interested agency. I think Pagc 21 of 37 TB 2-11 -01 that makes sense. Deb said it well. I'm certainly in favor of making this thing go forward. I don't like what I heard tonight from Mr. Buckley. Supv Varvayanis - We're looking at buying our own radios to get improved communications. M Lane - I believe that if you take action tonight to authorize a law suit against the County it will delay matters. It will delay the public safety in Tompkins County. I believe that. Cl T Hatfield - You say that you're looking at this being a misunderstanding. Is that what you're telling us? Supv Varvayanis - He's saying the County will not consider us an involved agency. Atty Perkins - That's the way you avoid the lawsuit. The County agrees you're an involved agency. Cl T Hatfield - 1 think that's the answer. Let's give Mike a chance to take it back and see if it can't be corked out. Supv Varvayanis - `Chat's why I wanted to make it perfectly clear. You authorize me. but I'm sure as heck not going to run right out and say Mahlon fie an intent. The county has a chance to get back. M Lane - Of course 1 will take your comments back to the committee. Supv Varvayanis - And Joe Lalley is one member and who else is on there? M Lane - The other members of the committee are Barbara Blanchard and George 'rotman and Peter Permiman. Supv Varvayanis - Maybe we should get on the phone. Cl T Hatfield - There are five members and three of them represent Dryden. I'm not in favor of lawsuits, Mike. Cl Grantham - Nobody wants a lawsuit. Cl T Hatfield - f'm not interested in. seeing a lawsuit. I think what we ought to be sending here, and I don't know if it needs to be in the form of the authorization that: we were just kicking around, but a message needs to go back that we really do want to be involved and not on an interested basis. Cell tower issues we fought too long to get where we're at with it in the Town. We want to work with you, not against you. But we don't want to be treated as.... citizen. M Lane - I hear what ,you're saying, Tom, and I will report that back. Supv Varvayanis - You have to admit, an interested agency has no more rights than any M Lane - A governmental agency is going to have more clout than one citizen. Supv Varvayanis - Well, we need a formal resolution. C1 T Hatfield - I would like to see us not go that route yet. I think Mike got the message. Page 22 of 37 TB 2 -14 -01 Cl Grantham - I think that's the point. The point is do that if we do that, there are steps that can be gone through without authorizing a lawsuit, authorizing that Mark do what he needs to do. Cl T Hatfield - I guess I would go along with what you just said if that's the form of the resolution. As long as we are not authorizing the commencement of a lawsuit. Before we take that step it has to come back to the board. Anything else short of that, okay. That's why I'm not sure it needs a resolution. Mahlon and Mark and Mike, you've got the sense of the board here. I think that's where we ought to go. if we're going start a lawsuit, then let's hold that until we need to start a lawsuit. That's not in anybody's best interests. I don't think getting beyond where we are right now is necessary at this point in time I hope. I don't know if we ve got to get together again. We've got a hearing coming up for the billboards. We were looking to do that March 7, R Flynn - 1 understand the concerns and stuff that the Town board has, but it seems to me that in the truckloads of documentation and paperwork that has come bark from audits done and issued that have been addressed through the County and stuff like that, you mean to tell me in that truckload of paper work from external agencies coming and reviewing what would be the best for the County and so on and so forth, those questions that still are open in your minds cannot be found in any of that. Supv Varvayanis - No, that's the point. The point is do we or do we not say we agree with it. The County is saying we don't care whether you agree with what we want to do. R Flynn - So basically what you're saying is you want the final say on where a tower goes. Is that what you are saying? Cl Grantham - No. We can't have the final say. We're not the lead agency and there's no way we can be what's called the lead agency. This is an environmental review that's required by the State and we have as a 'Town an obligation to be involved in that process in a very specific way and it's called being an involved agency. What we're saying is that we not only want that, we have an obligation to be an involved agency and the Country has an obligation to have us as involved agencies. And that if we don't do that, we're not meeting our responsibilities as a Town Board. That's a very specific, formal role. R Flynn - I was under the impression that public safety did not fall under the re aim of having to have environmental impact studies and such. 1`hey could come in and say we're going to do it and that's it. Supv Varvayanis - That's not true. There are specific projects that's don't require SEQR review, and this isn't one of them. That's why there's an EIS being done in the first place. R Flynn - I understand your position and I commend you for it, however, being a user of the system, we need it and we can't delay. That's all I'm saying. Cl Grantham - Us being an involved agency would not slow it down at all. There's no reason for it to slow down if the Town's are involved agencies. The State Environmental Quality Review has very specific deadlines. If there is a deadline for us to give formal input and we miss it, too bad. The process marches on. So there is nothing that would slow it down for us to be involved agencies. R Flynn - Unless a lawsuit comes about. ® Supv Varvayanis -'That's the point I was trying to make earlier. If there's a lawsuit, the way lawsuits are usually lost is you didn't follow proper procedure. As far as I read the law, proper procedure means the Towns are considered involved agencies. If the County just said Page 23 of 37 TB 2 -14 -01 "Okay, you're involved agencies ", I think it %vill go ahead. If the County insists on doing it this way, I think it is reasonable to assume that there are very likely to be some citizens who file a is lawsuit because they don't want a tower going up. And if the County doesn't; follow proper procedure, which I think they're not, that's a lawsuit that might ruin. Cl Grantham - And that would slow everything down. Supv Varvayanis - Tremendously. Cl Grantham - We would have to start all over then. J Buckley - Mark, if I may, I have to leave. I have other obligations tonight. About: the letter in the paper, I just talked to Brian before he left, and he clarified that in his talking with John Morrissey who is on the regional boards of EMS, they've met twice in the last week or two, and what they believe is any volunteer ambulance, dedicated volunteer not partial, can be restocked at no cost by the hospitals. If you area paid service in any capacity, as Dryden is, we would be charged and ultimately cannot get restocking. I did read this. It's not clear at all. I will research it. I see a website and a name that I can contact. I'll research that farther for you tomorrow. Cl Grantham - Well, what would you like to do? Cl T Hatfield - I don't know frankly. Mahlon? Atty Perkins - It's a policy call. Cl T Hatfield - It is a policy call, and it's a protocol call, but I'm struggling here a little bit with it. Because I'm absolutely sympathetic to the points raised. Supv Varvayanis - It is a legal question though. Cl T Hatfield - What does it take to get the attention of the County more than what we've just done? Is our only recourse a lawsuit? Atty Perkins - In my opinion, yes. They made it pretty clear where they are. If you want to achieve the goal that we've talked about, I think the only way you are going to get there is with a lawsuit. Supv Varvayanis - 1 read the law pretty carefully and I am of the definite impression we're supposed to be an involved agency. Do you say I'm probably right? Atty Perkins - To tell you the truth Mark, I haven't looked at that particular issue carefully. Cl T Hatfield - I would assume that the County Attorney has looked at that carefully. He obviously is saying to the County something different. I would like this resolved, and I would like us to be involved, and I guess if it takes a lawsuit, then I guess I would very reluctantly go down that path. I don't know ghat I'm ready to do that tonight. I'm not sure that all parties have really understood each other that clearly, but Mark you've been involved in these meetings more than I have. I haven't been involved in them at all. Mike, you've been involved in them. You're saying that the County does not want us in any, shape or form, not bendable, on the involved agency status? M Lane - I said that we would treat you as an interested agency. The only difference • being that at the end you are not required to make findings. P,lge 24 of 37 TB 2 -14-)1 ® Supv Varvayanis - That's what he said. You are saying we're an interested agency, period, end of story. Correct? M Lane - That was the position that was taken at the ComCap meeting. Cl T Hatfield - Do you believe that position's inviolable, without lawsuit? M Lane - I told you I would take back what was said here tonight to the committee. I can't speak for everyone. Cl T Hatfield - I understand. It's not just the Town of Dryden either, understand. There are other Towns asking for the same thing. M Lane - lt's Dryden and Caroline so far that I know of. Supv Varvayanis - Well Danby's pretty frustrated also and as I understand it they are basically asking for the tower to be moved a quarter mile up the road and they haven't gotten a response yet. M Lane - I don't know how to explain that. They haven't formally asked for that yet. The Danby Supervisor came to our meeting and said nothing. Cl T Hatfield - Well I think that negotiation is preferable to a lawsuit, Mike, and I'll never change my mind on that part of it, but if it means that we can get through this so that Ron and his cohorts can get access to better communication system quickly, then I guess that I'd be inclined to go along with your request. I would hope that it doesn't come to that and I would ask you come back to us before you initiate any actual court plans. With that I'd be willing to go along with the authorization. Supv Varvayanis - I'll certainly talk to you or any board member before I do anything. I really don't want to do anything, but I think unless we state that we are willing, that they... Cl T Hatfield - I think that's part of the understanding. There's a willingness here. Everybody wants to achieve the same objectives and the Town wants to be able to make findings and come to conclusions and be part of that. I think it makes sense. I think it is our obligation. Cl Grantham - So is that a second? Cl T Hatfield - With some modification. If you can live with that change, then let's go forward with it. Cl Grantham - So authorize him to take steps with the provision that he come back before the step of litigation. Cl T Hatfield - Yes. Supv Varvayanis - Come back to the board or just communicate with the Board? Cl T Hatfield - You can come back to us individually. I don't mean formally, but come back to us. That's what I'm asking. ® Supv Varvayanis - I'm sure we'll be talking about this issue before I... Page 25 of 37 TB 2 -14 -01 M Lade - May I make a request that when the Town communicates with Chairman Blanchard or the County Attorney or our Board Chair Barbara Mink that the three Dryden representatives be copied with that correspondence? is Supv Varvayatnis -That's certainly reasonable. I just: assumed that.... M Lane - If you want us to have a copy it's best to send it to us. Cl Grantham - Maybe one thing we could do is make packets about the correspondence and make sure that each of the board members and the three county board members for Dryden get it. All of the letters and stuff that have gone back and forth. Supv Varvayanis - Do you want Don Barber's letter from last week? Cl T Hatfield - Not particularly. I 'm more interested in Dryden than I am Caroline. It's the same issue though, so why not. It's something the County would be interested in though. I'm sure it would be helpful to Mike and George. M. Lane - I do hope that if a lawsuit happens here that the Town of Dryden taxpayers aren't the only ones that are going to shoulder the cosh. Supv Varvayanis - Well, that's something I hope too. Cl T Hatfield - That's what I say. I don't want: to go down that: road, if we can avoid it. Supv Varvayanis - Mike's pretty much made clear tonight that that's, ..,.Well, never mind. M Walbridge - I'd just like to say that in some other dealings with the County I have the sense that actually it acts like a big elephant in the room and dares it's Citizens to sue it. You're sort of saying that everybody's going to be charged xvith a suit. A very easy way to prevent any suits would be the County to allow.... There's two stories here. I don't know whether it's particularly the attorney's point of view or whatever, he's acting very big in a small room and is almost daring its citizens or its Towns, which only the citizens end up paying for it, and sort of acts as if it isn't employees of us. That I don't think sits really well with a lot of us. M Lane - Peggy, I don't think that the County does that. Remember the County represents all the taxpayers in Tompkins County. Supv Varvayanis - What's that: got to do with this issue? Either you're following proper procedure or you're not:. M Lane - Apparently there's a question about who's following proper procedure. Cl T Hatfield - Let's call the question and go on. RESOLUTION #94 - AUTHORIZE SUPERVISOR TO ACT REGARDING COUNTY'S COMMUNICATION TOWERS PROJECT C1 Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby authorizes the Town Supervisor and Town Attorney to take whatever steps are necessary to see that the Town's position as an involved agency in Tompkins County's Public Safety /Communication Towers project, except that with • respect to litigation the Supervisor shall first contact each `Gown Board member. Pale 26 of 37 2nd Cl T Hatfield Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Supv Varvayanis Cl Grantham DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT Yes Yes Yes TB 2 -14 -01 Jack Bush read a letter he has received from Hildegarde Perine of 59 West Dryden requesting that the speed limit be lowered to 35 miles per hour from the intersection of West Dryden Road and Route 38 for a distance of two or three miles out the West Dryden Road. She states that most cars travel that area at speeds in excess of 60 mph and that children ride bicycles in the area. Jack Bush - I think what happened here, if you know the area you turn off Route 38 on to Nest Dryden Road, and just a little ways up the road there are two houses that have been constructed probably within the last five years. Where they built the houses is-a hill and there is a line of sight issue because of the hill. I don't think that this was a concern before those houses were built, but now because they've been allowed to build there I think there is a concern. I've talked to Ward Hungerford about this, and so has Mrs. Perine. I would be willing to support this and hope that the Town would be willing to do the same. Ward seems to feel like he would also support it. It's a County road, but because it's in the Town of Dryden, he would still need the Town's support. He has to go through the State M Walbridge - How likely is the State to approve it? J Bush - In most cases, I would say that probably it isn't very likely, but in this particular case there is a line of sight issue and I don't know how you would correct that other than cutting the hill down. Cl 'I' Hatfield suggested that the Town do a resolution in support of this request. RESOLUTION #95 - REQUEST REDUCED SPEED LIMIT ON WEST DRYDEN ROAD C1 T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: WHEREAS, the Town of Dryden has received a request: from a concerned citizen with respect to the speed at which vehicles travel a section of the West Dryden Road from Route 38 westward; and WHEREAS, the Town of Dryden Highway Superintendent confirms that there is a line of sight issue on that portion of the road with respect to certain driveways; and WHEREAS, the area has become more populated in recent years; NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that this Town Board hereby requests that the speed limit on West Dryden Road from Route 38 westward for a distance of one mile be reduced to 35 miles per hour. 2nd Cl Grantham Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes Page 27 of 37 TS 2 -14 -01 Supv Varvayanis Yes • Cl Grantham Yes J Bush distributed an Agreement to Spend Highway Funds to board members, and explained that this is work contemplated in the 2001 budget. J Bush - A is in -place recycling. That's the same thing that we did on Snyder Hill Road and Ellis Hollow Creek Load. B is also recycling what is already there. C is a, new surface on top. D is using some of the recycled material that was purchased last year and putting a new binder on the surface. "fhe same with E. F. Ferguson Road, is a new overlay to protect what's already there. G is Bear Circle. The condition of pavement there is completely alligator tracked and the only thin to do is grind it all back out of there and replace it. The same with H and I. J is a new overlay over the existing. Schwan Drive is an overlay. That has been on the schedule for two years now to do, and I've continued to hold off not knowing what was going to happen with water and sewer. The park has gone ahead and paved the whole park and I'd like to finish the job. If something more comes about with the sewer, we certainly can hold off another year. Cl Grantham - So basically you're repairing paved surfaces. What else are you planning to do on Freese Road? J Bush - In place recycle. Cl Grantham - No. I mean beyond this, with the bank and so on. J Bush - Finish the bank that we started and there is a bad section just up around the sharp curve on top where a four inch drainage pipe has to be put in. • Cl T Hatfield - I'll move that we move this pursuant to the conditions outlined. Cl Grantham - The additional Freese Road on the bank and the drainage, I think it came up a couple of months ago that that should have been SEQR'd and if you did more you need to do a SEQR process on that. J Bush - We've never done a SEQR process. Why would we be starting that now? Cl Grantham - Well, maybe we should have been doing SEQR processes on those kinds of things. Supv Varvayanis - I was talking to Mahlon about it, and correct me if I'm wrong, you thought it was possibly questionable but it's something we might. as well do, and then you know you're not doing something wrong. Correct? Atty Perkins - Just fill out a short form, and you're complying with the statute. Jack is right on one hand. Typically these are the kinds of actions even though they are approved, funded or undertaken by an agency not having been subject to SEQR, but if there is an issue about it, simply fill out the short form. Supv Varvayanis - We're getting complaints from citizens, so like I said a moment ago, I don't believe a suit will be filed because you didn't follow proper procedure. Since they aren't hard to do, why not just do it? Atty Perkins - If you have one in the file, you're covered. 0 Page 28 of 37 TB 2 -14 -0 1 ® Jack Bush was given a copy of an e -mail from Dave Weinstein regarding Freese Road and the need for a SEQR process. (attached these minutes) Cl Grantham - So we should probably have a project description before we do even a short form on this. Supv Varvayanis - On the SEQR yes, but right now we've got this agreement. Cl Grantham - I'm just talking about the additional work on Freese Road, the bank and so on. These are not, I don't think, SEQR. Atty Perkins - They are maintenance in place, not sul ject to SEQR. Cl Grantham - I think they all are. J Bush - III tell you right now, I think this is ridiculous to go this route. We've already started the work for this year, so if you want to tight me on it, go ahead, but I'm going to do the job. Cl Grantham - Why can't you bring us a project description at the next board meeting and just do a SEQR. J Bush - It sounds like it's creating a lot more work for me. That's what I feel is going on here. Cl Grantham - You plan the projects anyway, don't you have a project plan? 0 J Bush - I don't think it's what you're looking for. Supv Vauvayanis - Why don't you show us what you've got and then we tell you. J Bush - I can show you what I've got. You just drive down on the road and take a look at it. You've already seen half of what we've done. We're just going to finish the other half. Supv Varvayanis - No, we're talking about a plan. Do you have anything written down. J Bush - I'm not going to present you with a plan. Fight me on it. I'm going to do my job. If you can't see that that's a good project happening and listen to the people that are in favor of it. You've got the homeowners there that are in favor of the project. Supv Varvayanis - But if it's a good plan, what's the problem with running through a one page form? J Bush - Do you want to sit down and help me with it? Atty Perkins - I'd be glad to help you. Supv Varvayanis - If that's what it takes, sure. No problem. J Bush - Okay. Cl T Hatfield - We're not trying to hurt: you here Jack. We're trying to help accomplish the requirements that people could use as a wedge issue to actually stop something. You missed the conversation earlier, but it's the same issue. Page 29 of 37 TB 2 -14 -01 Atty Perkins - Jack, I think once you do two or three of them, you'll find that it's not • really very hard to comply. Cl T Hatfield - It:'s not creating a lot of work, and it's not that time consuming, but it has to be done. Anyway, 1 made the motion. RESOLUTION #96 - AGREEMENT TO SPEND HIGHWAY FUNDS CI T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: RESOLVED, that this Town Hoard hereby approves the Agreement to Spend Highway !Funds as presented by the Highway Superintendent and board members lvvi.11 sign the same. 2nd Supv Vaivayanis Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes Supv Varvayanis Yes Cl Grantham Yes Supv Varvayanis - I guess we're down to the property tax abatements for the trail casements. Cl Grantham - That was something that I brought up a while ago because land owners along the trail section that we have funded between the two Villages are asking if there would be any tax abatement. I think everybody got this resolution. It's just a resolution to the County asking that they take into consideration that the property subject to the trail easement will be property which is dedicated to a. public use and such use should be taken into consideration in deterrninirig it's taxable value. Cl T Hatfield - Is there a more efficient approach? I can envision this being a lot of work for very little benefit. IS there a better answer maybe? Atty Perkins - A fee simple deed. Supv Varvayan.is - Well Akre can sure do that if they want to. Atty Perkins - It's not your problem. You've done what you promised the people you'd do. You're going to pass a pretty clear resolution. C1 Grantham - I said verbally to them, this is one option. ,CI T Hatfield - From a tax angle, an income tax reduction is much greater than there xvill be relief in the form of property tax reduction. But I'll second it. And we'll pass it along to the County. RESOLUTION #97 - REQUEST TAX RELIEF FOR TRAIL PROPERTIES C1 Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: WHEREAS, The Town of Dryden is developing portions of the former Lehigh Valley Railroad property into a public trail from the Village of Dryden to the Village of Freeville, and WHEREAS, the area to be developed as a trail is currently assessed as vacant land, and WHEREAS, the granting of a trail easement to the Town of Dryden will create a servient • estate and the improvement of the area subject to the trail easement and %vi11 mean that the Page 30 of 37 T13 2 -14 -01 property subject to said easement will no longer be vacant and should be then valued for real property tax purposes in its current use, and WHEREAS, the use of said property will then be for a public purpose, NOW, THEREFORE, the Tompkins County Division of Assessment is respectfully requested to take into consideration that property subject to a trail easement to the Town of Dryden will be property which is dedicated to a public use and such use should be taken into consideration in determining its taxable value. 2nd Cl T Hatfield Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Supv Varvayanis Cl Grantham Yes Yes Yes The Tompkins County SPCA has forwarded the Town a proposed resolution and asked the Town to adopt: it, proclaiming February 27, 2001 as "Spay Day ". RESOLUTION #98 - PROCLAIM FEBRUARY 27, 2001 AS SPAY DAY IN THE TOWN OF DRYDEN Cl Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: WHEREAS, dogs and cats give companionship to and share the homes of over 50,000,000 individuals in the United States; and WE EREAS, one unspayed cat: and her offspring can produce 420,000 more cats in seven years, and one unspayed dog and her offspring can produce 67,000 more dogs in six years; and WHEREAS, human societies and shelters cuthanize six to eight hundred million dogs and cats each year, although many of them healthy and adoptable, simply because there are not enough good homes; and WHEREAS, the problem of companion animal overpopulation costs the taxpayers of this country millions of dollars annually through animal control programs aimed at coping with the millions of unwanted dogs and cats; and WHEREAS, spaying and neutering dogs and cats has been shown to drastically reduce dog and cat overpopulation; and WHEREAS, veterinarians, humane societies, and national and local animal protection organizations have joined together to advocate the spaying or neutering of companion animals on "Spay Day USA" in 2001, NOW, THEREFORE, BE hereby proclaimed as Spay Day observe the day by having their spaying or neutering of another 2nd Cl T Hatfield IT RESOLVED, by this Town Board that February 27, 2001 is in the Town of Dryden, and residents of the Town are urged to own cats or dogs spayed. or neutered or by sponsoring the person's cat or dog. Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes Supv Varvayanis Yes Page 31 of 37 TB 2 -I4-01 Cl Grantham Yes Atty Perkins - Can we talk about the proposal l gave you on the billboards? I guess when I went to do this 1 was unclear about exactly what you wanted me to do. What I did do was put in legislative form Option 1, which was in George's report and I did modify it to include Henry's comment about how you would measure the height, from the edge of the pavement adjacent to it. I did not: include in this, and it is simple to do if you want this, any language with respect to lighting or any language with respect to the landscaping. 1 wasn't clear whether it was something you wanted to consider or not. Supv Vacvayanis - We wanted to consider lighting, bu1:1 don't know, you say it's simple to do? Atty Perkins - We can do it right now. What you have there is two proposals. We would have a third proposal which would read Section 1502 of Article 15 is to be amended by adding thereto the following language at the end of the last sentence. That would be "any outdoor sign that: is illuminated from any light source other than an internal source shall be illuminated by a fully shielded light source or sources, designed and placed in the manner that: (1) restricts the area illuminated to the sign face, (2) directs in a downward manner, and (3) precludes the casting of any glare of light from said source beyond the sign face in any upward direction, horizontally, or to the side or to the rear of said structure. No light: shall be cast on adjoining property or upward beyond a horizontal plane level with the light source." We'd make that proposal 3 and then when you go to adopt these you can adopt 1, 2 or 3 proposals. If you want to talk about landscaping, we can add that as a proposal, or if there is no interest or support for that, we can just leave you with three proposals. Supv Varvayanis - We did talk about landscaping. I wish Charlie and lion were here. Cl T Hatfield - I do too because I think Charlie had a particular interest in that, as did I. But I'm not sure that the interests that I had mirrored what George came back to us with exactly. Cl Grantham - Well, look at the last page of the packet that we got from Mr. Reid, Cl T Hatfield - Okay, this is more what I had in mind, screening the superstructure. This is more what: I would be interested seeing some language about. J Reid - I didn't really catch it until I sat down to look at this. We had proposed a sign to be 15 feet high, the sign being 12 feet, which means there is 3 feet of upright to deal with. It's not a substantial thing to try and hide. The lighting information we have is standard lighting we use. It can be either underneath the sign shining up or above shining dow=n. Supv Varvayanis - You heard Mahlon's description. It would be mounted up, shining down. It sounded relatively clear. Is that something you can live with? J Reid - I can live with it. I don't tend to agree with him. I think if you have a light shining down, you're going to have a lot more affect on the surrounding area than if you have a light shining up. The astronauts are still landing; they aren't having any trouble seeing to get down. But I understand what he means. And where we propose to put some of our signs, which are not illuminated by the way, is across the street from where they just put in a used car lot with lights there. Supv Varvayanis - I think we ought to include the planting of vegetation and if Charlie and Ron don't want it, %ve don't have to pass it. But if they do want it, it might as well be there. Page 32 of 37 TB 2 -14 -01 Atty Perkins - It would be Article 15 of the Zoning Ordinance is to be amended by adding thereto a new section to read as follows: When the Town Board approves an application for a special permit for a billboard, it may condition such approval upon the planting and maintenance of landscape plantings. The following standards.may be utilized by the Town Board as part of such conditions: (1) Any existing vegetation at the location of a proposed off - premises advertising sign structure that exceeds 15 feet in height shall be retained unless such vegetation obscures any portion of the sign face from any location on the adjacent highway within 400' of said sign face; (2) A vegetative screen shall be planted to extend a minimum of 30' from the face of off - premises advertising sign and at an angle of no greater than 20 degrees perpendicular to the face of said structure; (3) Any vegetative screen shall be planted with horticultural plants or trees that are at least eight feet in height at the time of planting and which under normal growing conditions have a demonstrated growth rate of at least 6" per annum; (4) Any vegetative screen shall be a minimum of 10' in depth; (5) Any vegetative screen for an off premises advertising sign shall be located in its entirety on the parcel of land at which sign structure is located, whether such parcel is held in fee title or lease; (6) The structure owner shall maintain any vegetative screen so long as the structure remains on the site. Such maintenance to include replacement of any vegetation that dies during the life of the structure. See also figure 1, vegetative screen concept dated November 7, 2000, which is made a part hereof by reference. And that would be this sketch. Cl T Hatfield - That's the part 1 think I didn't agree with him on. I much more conceptually had in mind what we were given tonight, which doesn't reflect what you just read. Cl Grantham - This diagram much more specifically hides the upright, which is the point, right. ® Cl T Hatfield - Exactly. I like of that with respect to saving the trees, etc, but you've got to be able to read the face, and I think maybe that needs to be reworked a little bit. ZO Slater - The vegetative stuff to the side is making it look like a mobile home park entrance. That doesn't serve any purpose to the sign, where John's illustration is exactly what I think is needed. Cl T Hatfield - And something that grows 6" annually, that's not the point at all. If you've got a three foot surface that you are trying to cover, you want it to get three feet tall and stay there. The taller vegetation is more in line with some of the older structures where you've got a super structure on either side that's exposed. That's where I think you need some blending. J Reid - If I was building a sign that was 15 or 20 feet from ground level, I would want to plant something that would grow to cover it, but still you wouldn't let it get to the sign face. Supv Varvayanis - I've got a question about the heights. If you are measuring 15 feet above the road surface, if you have it 100 feet off to the side and it's a downward slope, can the sign still be 30 feet above the round? Atty Perkins - That's a problem. You're assuming that they are going to be closer to the road. Cl Grantham - And close to the same elevation. J Reid - Normally, what they do is reference the surface of the road because of that. 41 Some of them drop off drastically 10 or 15 feet. Page 33 of 37 TB 2 -144)1 Supv Varvayanis - So my point is if we have a 15 foot drop and it's an 18 foot post then we have to make slue that we have 18 foot plants, not 3 foot plants. 10 Cl Grantham - Can we just simplify? J Reid - Let me qualify that, too. I'd rather not go out and buy 18 foot trees to begin frith. ZO Slater - Well, it's probably not going to be visible anyway if you've got a big drop like that, in that particular application. Cl T Hatfield - 1 like the way you started that, where the Town Board may stipulate. Atty Perkins - I could certainly take this sketch and ... Supv Varvayanis - How about make it like a site plan? We just approve the plantings. Cl Grantham - And that the objective of the landscaping is to conceal the super structure. ZO Slater - George had indicated that in that landscape plan the whole idea was to screen it from adjoining property owners. Cl T Hatfield - I think he may have missed the concern that was being expressed here when he went in that direction. Cl Grantham - And if it's in an MA Zone, it's not such a concern. J Reid - If you look at what he wanted, with a sign such as I proposed to build, we would wind up with 600 square feet of plantings. That's a lot of plants. C1 T Hatfield - And a lot to maintain. Atty Perkins - The other thing we could do if you want to move this along, is you can go with those three proposals. Supv Varvayanis - And do the plants later. Atty Perkins - I can try to revise the concept here. Some of the concepts he has are good and we can land of work it in to this kind of a sketch as opposed to what he has talked about in his report. This was George's suggested language in the report., not mine. I can take this and try to address it. Cl Grantham -That seems like a good idea. So it would be another local law. Atty Perkins - No. What we're doing is amending the Zoning Ordinance, Cl Grantham - But we would do the process again for another proposal. Atty Perkins -'Right, We would have a separate public hearing on the plantings and screening part of it. Cl Grantham - One thing that's not in this option is the amortization of existing signs • and I can't remember really what people thought about that. Pagc 34 of 37 TB z-la -01 Cl T Hatfield - Pretty much we decided that what's there is there. 'ZO Slater Nobody's complaining about what's there now. Cl T Hatfield - In fact the most feedback I've gotten on this is from people who like the existing signs. It's been amazing. J Reid - In the material I gave you, and I realize it's quite a bit, there are lot of surveys done across the nation by independent organizations, not billboard people. You'll be amazed. If you think people hate billboards, you'll be amazed when you read that information. Cl T Hatfield - Speaking from personal information, when you get into a part of the country where there aren't any and try to find some information, there is nothing to help direct you. It's amazing. Cl Grantham - George talked about the tourist information signs. The property owner does it with the DOT. You have to have a permit. ZO Slater - You get a permit and I think DOT puts them up, and they maintain them as long as you keep paying. Supv Varvayanis - They're not cheap. J Reid - Are you maintaining the half mile distance between billboard structures in Option 1? 40 Atty Perkins - That's the proposal. J Reid - That's five times what the State and Federal require. This is an awful lot of space. No place that I know of has any spacing like that. The State guidelines would be 500 feet between structures. Cl T Hatfield - I think that's what we're trying to avoid. We're not interested in having them every 500 feet up and down Route 13. J Reid - Maybe not, but half a mile is a really long way. Cl T Hatfield - 30 seconds transportation time. ZO Slater - Well, look at: this way. If yours are approved, that will be the end of it. You won't have any competitors. J Reid - There have been cases, and there are companies that do this, and I know they do it. They go in and try to make the local laws so that competition can't come in. I've been in this business for so long that I think anything that is detrimental to our business is wrong for anybody to encourage to happen to eliminate position. Supv Varvayanis - I'm satisfied with half a mile. Cl T liat£ield - It doesn't seem like that big a gap to me. You're in the business, so you see it differently than we do. I'm happy with it right now. If it turns out there's that much more demand, weM have to revisit it. 41 ZO Slater - It does leave very little space. Page 35 of 37 TB 2 -14 -01 Supv Varvayanis - We're well aware of that. Cl T Hatfield - And it can be revisited if it becomes an. issue or a problem. ZO Slater - That's fine as long as you're aware of it. Atty Perkins - Someone should introduce these three proposals and schedule a public hearing on it. RESOLUTION #99 - INTRODUCE PROPOSALS FOR AMENDMENT TO ZONING ORDINANCE FOR BILLBOARD REGULATIONS Cl Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption: RESOLVED, that this `.l'oum Board hereby introduces the following proposed amendments to the Zoning Ordinance, and sets a public hearing regarding the adoption of these amendments for March 7, 2001, at 7:00 p.m. at the Town Hall, 65 East Main Street, Dryden, New fork: • • �; Appendix: A of the Town of Dryden Zoning Ordinance (Definitions) is to be amended by adding the following definition: 'BILLBOARD PACE. That surface or side of an outdoor advertising billboard on which • advertising for goods, services or places is displayed, and including both the surface on which advertising is placed, and any surrounding frame and decorative trim.' PROPOSAL 2 Section 1502(9) of Article XV of the Zoning Ordinance is to be amended to read as follows: 'Billboards shall be allowed by special permit within the M -A District. In no case shall: (a) any billboard face exceed 160 square feet in area; (b) there be anymore than two billboard faces on any one structure, whether said faces be back to back, side by side or one on top of the other; (c) any billboard structure be located nearer than one -half mile from another billboard structure, or nearer than 500 feet from the boundary of an R -B, R -B -1, R -C or 12 -D zoning district, or any residential zoning district within the Village of Dryden or Village of Freeville; (d) any billboard structure exceed fifteen feet in height, including support, measured from the edge of the paved surface of the highway adjacent thereto. When approving a billboard, the Town Board shall take into consideration the criteria set forth in Section 1303(2), and such factors as the size, construction and design; location. and effect on surrounding property; safety and vehicular traffic; and maintenance provisions, including provisions for removal of an abandoned billboard." Pagc 36 of 37 TB 2 -1 4-01 PROPOSAL 3 Section 1503 of Article XV of the Zoning Ordinance is to be amended by adding thereto the following language at the end of the last sentence. "Any outdoor sign that is illuminated from any light source other than an internal source shall be illuminated by a fully shielded light: source or sources, designed and placed in a manner that (1) restricts the area illuminated to the sign face, (2) directs in a downward manner, and (3) precludes the casting of any glare or light from said source beyond the sign face in any upward direction, horizontally to the side of, or to the rear of said structure. No light shall be cast on adjoining property, or upward beyond a horizontal plane level with the light source." These amendments shall take effect after a public hearing, their approval and publication as provided by law. 2nd Cl T Hatfield Roll Call Vote Cl T Hatfield Yes Supv Varvayanis Yes Cl Grantham Yes Cl Grantham distributed a memo to board members regarding the building needs study. On motion duly made, seconded and unanimously approved, the board moved into executive to discuss the employment history and medical history of a particular employee at 10:07 p.m. No action was taken. At 10:25 p.m., on motion duly made, seconded and unanimously approved, the meeting was adjourned. Respectfully submitted, 4-�l 4/ �Crit� 'IU� A 4( Bambi L. Hollenbeck Town Clerk Page 37 of 37