HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-05-21TOWN OF DRYDEN
SPECIAL PERMIT HEARING
MARTIN OTTENSCHOTT FREESE ROAD
MAY 21, 1998
The meeting was called to order by Supv Schug at 7:18 p.m.
Supv
Schug read a
letter from Laurie
S. Snyder, 36 Freese Road, in opposition to Mr.
Ottenschott's application.
She has concerns
about what Mr. Ottenschott is depositing at 5
Freese Road.
Feels it is an inappropriate use of the property. (Copy of letter in file).
ZO Slater - At the conclusion of the February 10 hearing there were several issues
identified and given to the applicant who hired an engineer to revise their existing plan to
accommodate primarily drainage, buffering, screening and site security, along with entrance
and exit via Freese Road providing adequate abilities for trucks to turn around on the site and
drive out and not have to turn around on the site, avoiding having to back in or back out. We
have received a new rendering which we've had for a few days. We are now ready to review
what has been submitted.
Supv Schug - Does Mr. Ottenschott have a copy of your comments on this?
ZO Slater - His agent does. I don't know if he does.
Supv Schug - Dave Putnamm is the Town Engineer. The drainage plan, map, buffering
program was presented. Asked Dave Putnam to comment on these.
10 D Putnam - The drainage plan which I was asked to review for the Town is acceptable
to us. It will handle the storm water that comes through Route 366 and route it around the
site without over - topping the neighbor's driveway anymore, in essentially the same place as
the ditch used to be. The other things I was asked to look at was the road and sedimentation
and none has been provided as of yet.
Supv Schug - So that's not complete then.
D Putnam - No.
ZO Slater - I have reviewed the plans. I found the screening to be inadequate. I found
the buffering to be inadequate in the ability to preclude the penetration of the neighborhood
both of visionary issues, noise issues, dust issues. I also felt that site security would be
important and no consideration has been given to site security at all. I find the plan in
general to not be sufficient to mitigate the concerns that have been established by the Board
in prior hearings.
Supv Schug - Do any of the neighbors have any comments?
Chris Easton, Fire Chief for Varna - This place poses an attractive nuisance I live
right across the road at 10 Freese Road. Any weekend you can see neighborhood on the dirt piles. One of the most traumatizing ighborhood
child, especially ne g things for any rescuers is to have to escuplaying
Y that s been buried in dirt. I think this o
without site security addressed at all it doesn't make an poses an
pelt unnecessary risk and
y sense to me to grant any special
SP 5 -21 -98
David Weinstein, 51 Freese Road - Reminded the Board that the Zoning Ordinance
asks that you specifically consider whether it is more objectionable by way of considering
noise, dust, odor and a suite of other things than the accepted normal allowed uses under a C
designation. I'm sure it wasn't in there to say well, think about these things or just dismiss
them and say that you thought about them. It means that if one of these things is not a big
issue or could have been easily mitigated you could have considered giving a permit, but four
or five or six of these items that are specifically named are not about to be mitigated in an
area like this. This is a densely residential area with a lot of houses close by and what was
suggested in the plan of having five white pine trees and a hedge of vibirnum and forsythia
that for the next five or ten years are not going to get much over my head is not going to
protect the neighborhood from noise and all the dust that will be created. This is a C
designation. This is a light commercial area and this is a heavy commercial use. I hope you
will find that this is an inappropriate permit to issue.
Paul Jennette, 361 Beam Hill Road - I would like to address two separate areas with
respect to this application. The first has to do with the applicant's compliance with the
requirements of the State Environmental Quality Review Act as implemented by 6 NYCRR part
617 and I'd like to know where the applicant is in his application procedure pursuant to
SEQR.
ZO Slater - I believe SEQR was 'reviewed at the first hearing. There certainly has been
a SEQR application filed. It's in the project package and I can't tell you exactly what stage
they're at at this point.
Paul Jennette - Just for everyone's information, SEQR Act is the State Environmental
Quality Review Act. What it says is that whenever a governmental body has authority to grant
discretionary approval to a permit application such as this, the body who has the most
primary responsibility designates itself as the lead agency and then is responsible for making 40
sure that certain environmental questions about noise, pollution, whether it be water
pollution or air pollution have to be answered. There is an Environmental Assessment Form
and my question is in the SEQR application that you refer to, is it a short form EAF or a long
form EAF that was included in the application.
ZO Slater - A long form part one.
Paul Jennette - Inquired where he could obtain a copy and was informed he could do
so at the Town Clerk's Office.
One of the things that the Town Board has to do is decide whether or not the project is
environmentally significant. They have to make a positive declaration or a negative
declaration. I implore the Board, as a practicing environmental engineer (the environment is
my business), that when they get to the point of having to make a determination as to
R that they make a positive declaration on the environmental
signficance under SEQR, to complete an environmental
signficance of this project, which then requires the applicant _
statement. The applicant will then have to demonstrate that
to review, and under
impact gli ble and then the public has a right
impacts of the project are negligible Implores the Board to please take that Path.
SEQR law requires a public hearing•
it
question of drainage, When rains and storm water from the
The second issue is the q o from the ditch?
site goes into the ditch referred to, where does it g
Cl D Grantham - Fall Creek
page 2 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
• Paul Jennette - Just in case you didn't happen to know this, the State Environmental
Conservation Law as implemented by Title 6 of NYCRR Part 17 Rules and Regulations Part
751 states that anybody discharging a pollutant into the waters of New York State from a
point source be required to obtain a permit under the State Pollutant Discharge Elimination
Systems ( SPDES), the same as sewage treatment plant. The reason is that they are causing
the water quality standards of the State to be exceeded. There is a specific water quality
standard as expressed in 6 NYCRR part 703. It gives a narrative standard and a general
prohibition of discharge into the waters of the State of anything that involves a change in
color or solids being discharged to the water body or change in turbidity which is a change in
clarity of the water. In all three circumstances, if you have muddy water coming out of a ditch
from a commercial activity, those represent pollution of the waters of the State and exceeds
those standards and require this State Pollutant Discharge Elimination Systems ( SPDES)
permit be obtained from the DEC. That application process also requires a SEQR process be
undertaken. Has anybody as part of the application process included a SPDES permit from
DEC?
ZO Slater - DEC was asked to be a participant in this review. Michael Barilski of DEC
(Region 7 in Cortland) reviewed the application, went through the site plan and the
resubmittal of the site plan. His comment was that there were no permits required from DEC.
His only concern was sedimentation into Fall Creek.
Paul Jennette - The interesting thing to note is that the Region 7 Office Sub Office of
DEC until most recently had been primarily responsible for environmental resource law
issues, not for water quality issues or for SPDES issues or other types of environmental
pollution issues. It's only recently that they've been given responsibility for that. So I
wouldn't be surprised if some of the people in the Region 7 Suboffice in Cortland were not
• quite familiar with all of the nuances and the regulations and the law and I would suggest
that it might be a good idea to ask them again and I would be more than happy to help the
Town Board in determir g what are the right questions to ask and see if perhaps they might
have a different opinion once we point out the issues we are concerned with, and I would like
to volunteer my assistance if you like.
Supv Schug - Thank you.
Carol Hoff, 10 Freese Road - Also speaking for Marge Darchangelo who could not be
here. We have obtained a copy of the most recent engineers report and find that there are
several questionable items in it, some of which Mr. Slater has already addressed about the
screening and dust. Feels the bushes might be effective for a few months in the summer only,
and the existing trees on Freese Road are just scrub brush and they are totally inadequate.
The drainage problem was caused when the original drainage was filled in. It appears now
that water is not overflowing at the bottom end, but is seeping through the ground because of
all the material put in over the years and it also appears that it is possibly seeping under the
road and into the ditch on the south side of Freese Road and down the edge of the property at
10 Freese Road. The fill has raised the water table. Originally the area at 5 Freese Road was
at the same level or lower than the current property at 9 Freese Road. Even in 1972 when the
Freese Road bridge went out in the flood, his side yard was not as full as it gets now in a
thunder storm. Also if they get the permit and if they do all of this great stuff, it will take care
of it -- maybe. He is saying that the access should remain on Freese Road. Freese Road has a
5 ton weight limit. Freese Road is very narrow, it's only 18 or 19 feet wide and the driveway
that they are using is 10 or 11 feet wide. You already have on the books in order to get a
special permit for quarry or excavation or topsoil removal. Both of these operations are
similar in that they both use heavy equipment, they both use heavy machinery, they both
produce dust, noise, etc. You already have on the books that before a special permit is issued
that there shall be nothing that endangers the stability of adjacent land nor constitute a
Page 3 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
detriment to public welfare, convenience, or safety by reason of excessive dust, noise, traffic •
congestion, exceeding of designated load limits on roads in the immediate vicinity of the
operation. Also in Section 806 of the Zoning Ordinance it says that all access roads should be
provided with a dust controlled surface not less than 22 feet wide from the connection to a
public street. Freese Road is only 18 or 19' wide. Its right near an intersection. Trucks are
backing out or trying to pull in. It is not a safe access road.
I also would like to
reiterate
that the site is
an attractive nuisance and some of the
children are not only over
there on
weekends, but
are "home schooled"
so they are there at
other times during the week. They
are not only on
the piles, but in the
stagnate water.
The site is only 2.4 acres. There is not enough room
turn around and be able to dump stuff. He also says some
concrete and cement and blacktopping. It has been put in
been raised 6 to 8 feet. Then the gravel from the creek was
whole site level and they started building it up and making
taken out and recycled.
to have adequate screening and
of his material is recyclable
there year after year after year, has
put over the top to make the
it higher again. It has never been
Bruce Gavitt, 953 Dryden Road - That area was a wetland originally and under
current law it wouldn't be permitted as a dredge fill site. At least it requires a permit from the
Army Corps of Engineers. As I see it, it is still a wetland in the sense that you have a high
water table, you have wetland vegetation that borders the whole area. It would be an
interesting judgment call on the part of a Corps Inspector to see if that qualifies. Not a good
wetland, but a wetland. It used to be good wetland.
Supv Schug - Asked Mr. Fraboni to respond to statements and concerns of audience.
Larry Fraboni, Mr. Ottenschott's engineer - We thought we had fully provided a new _
drainage ditch basically from Freese Road about where the drainage path turns to the
northwest all the way to the northwest corner of the property: This would protect 9 Freese
Road. It's a drainage ditch that would handle more than twice what we call a hundred year
storm. The little ditch that currently exists along the driveway would remain west of the berm
that basically would protect the new ditch and would remain to service the driveway only.
The old pipe under the driveway is both small and flat so it can't handle the amount of water
coming down off of Mt. Pleasant and all the development that has occurred on the East side of
366 so its a needed improvement to handle the flow of water. It would also handle spring run
off or some of those unusual runoff conditions like you've seen in the past. You saw it in
19729 1976, 1981. This would handle all those storm conditions. The site itself is a
precurvious (sp) material, so the retention of the storm flow actually is the best on the site,
but this ditch would also protect the property on the west from that. As a part of this ditch,
there is a 3 foot berm on the west side of this ditch. On that berm where we propose to do the
plantings and in response to what's been said, we are proposing as an enhancement to even
what has been submitted to plant a double row of these plantings, both within the woods on
Freese Road and on this 3 foot berm and in addition to that to temporarily put up one of these
construction fences, but unlike the ugly orange fence you are familiar with. They make an
environmentally pleasing green fence. It would also work as an erosion protection barrier. It
would propose to provide some security to the site when added to an entrance gate at the
entrance driveway. We still propose all these white pines at that particular location, on the
two mounds, it would contain the entrance. It would help the people across the street. That
greenery would be what they see instead of looking directly at the site. The dust will be
controlled by this enhancement that we are proposing.
In addition, Dave Putnam has brought up the issue of erosion off the site itself. We •
would add a silt fence along the west boundary and north boundary to contain the silt.
Page 4 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
• People have talked about wetlands and environmental regulations and so on. I feel compelled
to tell the Board that there is a regulation out for storm water runoff, but it has to do with
construction sites over five acres. This site is 2.4 acres. This may have been a wetland years
ago its not clear to me, but whoever is suggesting that it is a wetland now is not familiar with
the limits of the site we are talking about, but is looking more into Cornell's fields.
In summary, we are willing to add to this vegetative buffer. Experience will tell us all
that viburnum and forsythia grow high and thick and in time become a very effective dust
barrier as well as a pleasing visual barrier. As far as access goes, we felt it was very, very
dangerous for the infrequent use of the site to have these very heavy vehicles coming in and
out of the site off of Route 366. The 5 ton limit relates to the bridge as much as anything on
Freese Road. The access to the site is from Route 366 down a little portion of Freese Road into
the site. While its true the driveway farther down in is narrow, the mouth of the driveway is
25 or 30 feet wide. That would all be reworked at that entrance, again, to try to deal with the
neighbors' visual problem across the street and also to build a total visual barrier for those
people. With a gate entrance right at a driveway very close to Freese Road, the use of that
driveway would be minimized. That driveway would be regraded and improved for the use of
the neighbor and Cornell because that is the understanding Mr. Ottenschott has with his
neighhbors and I think that pretty much covers all the points and adds to them in the sense
of doubling up the planting that we suggested, putting both visual and dust barrier for the
time being. We just can't deal with kids going on the site in any foolproof way, but at least
they'd have to walk an awful long way to get onto the site. I will respectfully say that the trees
along Freese Road are more than twigs. Some are 30 feet high and 6 to 8 inches in diameter
and on a steep bank. Its a pretty effective visual barrier added to the plantings.
Audience member - Pointed out that the 5 acre limit aside, there is a lot of activity on
• that land and it is a misuse of land.
Carol Hoff - The weight limit on Freese Road is 5 ton. The weight limit on the bridge on
Freese Road is 15 ton. Not sure why there is this difference, but the 5 ton limit is not for the
bridge. Also, are you not already turning off of Route 366 and going back on Route 366?
Fraboni - That's right.
Carol Hoff - And at that intersection the visibility is not as good as it would be farther
down. It would be safer for those trucks to come in and out on Route 366 if a driveway was
made further down the road and not be a hazard to the traffic on Freese Road. Also it should
be noted that the driveway going in that way is also not only used by Cornell and the
neighbor, it is also used by joggers and bicyclers and people walking their dogs. You pull in
there and you never know what you will find in front of you.
Paul Jennette - The five acre concept that people are talking about here refers to a
specific general SPDES permit that DEC has come up with. It covers storm water runoff from
a myriad of industrial or construction activities. It is a special and specific general permit
that is out right now. Phase two of the storm water runoff regulations that will go into effect
later this year or next year is going to drop that five acre requirement down to one acre.
Irrespective of that, there are still provisions in the Environmental Conservation Law that
prohibit the discharge of pollutants to the waters of New York State. There are specific
regulations and water quality standards for such things as color, turbidity and solids.
Patti Easton, 10 Freese Road - I agree with Carol Hoff. The trucks are already turning
off on to Freese Road. If the driveway were moved down 366 it would get away from that bad
curve. The trucks would be turning onto 366 in a better location further down.
Page 5 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
Supv Schug - I agree that we have to do a very careful review and statement of
everything that has been proposed to us. I would ask the Board members if they would look
over the comments from tonight, the comments from February, the letters we have received in
between and make a list of your questions. Consider everything that has come up. If we
should go farther with DEC we will, and then do a set of findings and get back together. Larry
will get us a submittal of the upgrade. We'll try to get that done in the next month or so,
because evidently Marty, you must have use for the material that is in there. To do a special
permit, we have to go through a carefful and extensive program of the findings.
Ken Finklestein, 944 Dryden Road - If the issues needed for a special permit cannot be
resolved and the permit cannot be issued, then what will happen to this property? Will it stay
in its current condition? I understand there is a law suit pending. Is that correct?
Supv Schug - Yes.
Ken Finklestein - Let's assume he can't jump through all the hoops he needs to. Then
what happens to that property?
Atty Perkins - That's the subject of the lawsuit between Mr. Ottenschott and the Town.
If the Town is successful, the property would have to be restored or graded or not continue to
be used for dumping material and taking it off.
Ken Finklestein - But it would still belong to Mr. Ottenshott,
Atty Perkins - Certainly.
Supv Schug - We will do a proper findings statement and get back to you. Advised Mr.
Ottenschott's attorney that they would receive a copy. 0
Cl R Beck - What do we have on the record about a 70' access on Route 366.
Supv Schug - There were comments in February. Some people would like to see
access on 366 and others would not. I don't know if the engineer and Marty have looked at
the feasibility of coming off 366. That would require a state road cut.
Cl R Beck - It seems that would solve some of the Freese Road problems. Does the
applicant have to address that?
Supv
Schug -
The applicant can
and should take a
look at that
possibility. We'll
adjourn this
portion
of the Ottenschott
hearing to another
time. (7:59
p.m.)
Page 6 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
• TOWN OF DRYDEN
SPECIAL PERMIT HEARING
STEPHEN LUCENTE - MT. PLEASANT ROAD
MAY 21, 1998
Stephen Lucente - introduced himself, his wife, Patricia, and Doug Sutton of Sutton
Associates, the project architect, and Mr. Don Adams and Mr. Bob Harner, the engineers for
the project.
Doug Sutton - What my client is proposing to build is a group family apartment
complex up behind Route 366 on the hill that was formerly owned by Marchell. The site itself
is 12.51 acres and presently there is a pond up there. It has been cleared over the years. We
are proposing to put in 170 units, total square footage of over 176,000 square feet of
residential buildings which will cover less than 10% of the site in terms of the buildings. The
idea is to build it in five phases and to include a community center in the center of it. The
intent of the design is to make it family oriented and to group the buildings around the
community center. There will be outside space for playgrounds for kids. The other idea is to
keep the parking on the outside near the steep edges and to let people live on the inside of
the site with the pond and the community center as the focal points. The idea is to optimize
as much open space as possible and provide the community center with a walkway to the
public trail that has been proposed as part of the site work. We will provide good lighting to
make it feel comfortable and secure at night. When we looked at adjacent properties we
figured they were 63% agriculture, 30% was rental, 5% was institutional such as the church,
and 2% were owner occupied homes. Looking at Varna in general, which tends to be very
residential, we found about 300 rental units and 25 owner occupied units. The idea is to try
to make this work with the community of Varna as a positive addition to it. With that in mind
• my client would like to open the use of this community center as a peace offering and also the
use of the playgrounds.
Some of the problems that we face and are dealing with is traffic as an issue (the
engineers will speak to that), also drainage. We understand that there have been problems
down the hill with drainage problems and I think the engineers have figured a way not only to
keep it from increasing, but to make it better.
Some of the other advantages of the project certainly would be increased tax base to
the Town. It should decrease peoples sewer and water tax by approximately one - third. It
should generate approximately a quarter of a million dollars in taxes to the Town and to
governments and schools on an annual basis. I think at this point I will turn it over to the
engineers.
Robert Harrier - Assured the audience that they will comply with every regulation that
is required. NYS DOT for the roadways, NY DEC for the stormwater issues, NYS Dept of
Health for the water and sewer issues. We'll also be in touch with the Tompkins County
Highway Department and Town of Dryden.
We did a comprehensive analysis both on storm water and traffic. With respect to
storm water issues, we ran some models. This is a computer printout and calculations from a
program called TR55. Its a program used for small watersheds and so forth. Currently as the
site exists there are a lot of runoffs. A lot of the runoff is not concentrated through the pond,
which acts as a holding basin. We are proposing to use this stormwater pond and use this
road as sort of a barrier to direct the stormwater through the pond. That in itself will elminate
some of the problems with basement flooding and so forth. As part of that there is a drainage
• area that runs down through the property and what we are proposing to do is actually bypass
some of that water into the creek as it exists. It will go down behind the community center
Page 7 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
and then down into Fall Creek. We must comply with NYS DEC for our stormwater issues •
and intend to do that. Also there are some concerns in this area (indicating a portion of the
map) and what we are proposing to do is divert most of this runoff into an existing storm
culvert. We've been in contact with DOT and it looks like that may be able to happen. By
holding this stormwater back, it should eliminate some of the problems.
As it exists today, the Town of Dryden requires us to contain a 25 year storm. As part
of the SPDES permit, we must contain a 100 year storm event. Once we develop this area you
are naturally going to have increased runoff. What we will do is contain it through the pond
and storm water runoff and actually improve the situation that currently exists.
As far as the roadway issue, we've done considerable work on that as well. We've
looked at the level of service that exists on 366 and we've got some traffic counts. In
predevelopment conditions our peak flow through 366 is 585 vehicles per hour. After
development we're looking at an increase to 639 vehicles per hour. Traffic during peak hours,
am and pm, will be increased by up to 78 cars per hour. Again we will meet the requirements
of NYS DOT as far as driveway entrances, level of service. As it exists today the level of service
for that road is at a level C and post development it will still remain at level C. Level C states
an average speed can't exceed 50 miles per hour. While traffic flow is stable it becomes
suseptible to congestion due to turning traffic and slow moving vehicles. A service four lane
for up to 1200 cars per hour can be accommodated under ideal conditions.
David Weinstein - Inquired of Mr. Harner whether he felt the drainage plan as
rh presented was an acceptable plan with the water running down behind the Varna Community
Center and into Fall Creek.
Mr. Hamer - Yes. That is as it exists today. Its a pre - existing condition.
D Weinstein - Reminded Mr. Hamer that he did not have to live in Varna. That in a •
Y� recent Ithaca Journal article it was reported that Molly Case has burned out three pumps
since the last project went up. Indicated that the plan called for tearing down two existing
houses and that Mr. Lucente has offered a deal to Mrs. Case.
Lucente - Denied offering Mrs. Case a deal and planning to knock down any buildings.
Mr. Hamer - Addressed the stormwater issue. The site has been filled in over the
years. There is a lot of water leaving the site as it is today - pre- development condition. There
is a lot of water that runs down this hill and in front of her property. This storm water is not
being treated. Of course when it rains she's going to get water.
X D. Weinstein - And you're going to treat it. Isn't that big of you?
Martha Case - lives next door to proposed project. Ever since Mr. Marchell started
digging on the hill she has been flooded, the church has been flooded, a lot of the neighbors
have been flooded.
R. Hamer - Acknowledged the problem and proposes to improve it.
Martha Case - Doesn't believe there will be any improvement on the hill behind her.
The water has got to go somewhere.
R. Hamer - The pond will help take care of the water. DEC will not issue a permit if we
don't meet their requirements. What we're saying is that we are going to generate slightly
more runoff, but we're going to hold it in this pond up to the 100 year storm event. i
Page 8 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
M. Case - Everything looks great on paper, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty
its not.
Supv Schug - Keep in mind that operations on top of the hill in the past were never
requested of the town, nobody ever said a word. Marchell went up there and played around
with his bulldozer and I saw a gentlemen today who owns a piece of property on the corner of
Mt. Pleasant and they have water in their basement also. Inquired of Mrs. Case if people had
water in their basements prior to the time of Mr. Marchell's activities on the hill.
M. Case - No.
D Weinstein - The size of this project will disrupt more than Marchell ever did.
Supv Schug - They are trying to do it under our control and under the State's control
and hopefully they'll dry the basements out. If the project doesn't handle the water and they
don't do their job, they won't get their permits. It's as simple as that.
\� D Weinstein - Let's don't get to that point. You are assuming that it is going to be ok:.
No one knows what this project will do.
Supv Schug - The governments have all the figures on that.
R Hamer - The State DEC guidelines state that we will not only correct the problems of
the proposed development, but that we are required to contain all this water during
construction. You won't see all kinds of activity and filthy water leaving the site. All of this
has to be contained and controlled with a proper erosion and sediment control plan.
D Weinstein - In Mr. Lucente's other project there is already an existing lawsuit
because they haven't met the handicapped accessible requirements. People are living there, it
is already built.
S Lucente - Do you know this for a fact?
�( D Weinstein - Yes.
S Lucente - Well you're wrong. We are in complete compliance with the State. You are
misinformed.
D Weinstein - I've also heard from people who are living there that they have cracks in
Xtheir walls already.
S Lucente - You are wrong.
Geoff Potter - Is Lucente going to maintain this ditch from where it comes out of the
pond all the way to Fall Creek? My grandmother owns the house on the corner down here.
We've had to put new footer drains in and everything else because the ground flow has been
disturbed.
Lucente - That's an existing stream, we're not adding more stormwater.
G Potter - Doesn't want to have to spend more money to keep the basement dry.
"� 05 C� We,nS �Ci�
qa
SP 5 -21 -98
Mary Potter - You are not taking into consideration the geological part of this area. •
That part of Turkey Hill is a potential water shed and has been since year one. We never had a
lot of problems with water coming down from there only when there might be a flood. The
little creek flows along the road and under my house and I've had to put culverts in. We
never had that problem until that pond was built. It disturbed things and people on the main
road have had a lot of problems. If you're going to send all that water from that large of a
complex down this little creek about three feet wide and the State doesn't take the water off
the road, its going to cause a lot more problems.
R Harner - I cannot stress enough that this is going to be a holding pond and we are
going to direct the water to the pond.
Audience comments that the pond will not be sufficient to hold the water runoff.
Ken Finklestein - The pond is not now safe. Are you expanding the size of the pond
and making it a better storage area than it is today? Are you increasing the flow rate of water
going down the stream?
R Harner - It acts as a holding basin. We'll size the pond accordingly and actually
have an outlet structure. Only a small amount will be released. What I'm telling you is that
the pond will actually hold the water. It will have a mechanism for allowing the water to come
out in a controlled fashion.
Paul Jennette - I'm a little unclear about this. You are going to contain the stormwater
in the retention pond on the site close to the development. You are also going to divert the
stormwater that currently flows across the entire site from this uphill 70 acre watershed.
You're going to divert that around into the creek. So you are going to hold onto the water •
from the site and slowly release it from the retention pond, but you're going to add all the
water that currently is spread out from the 70 acre watershed directly into the creek.
R
Harner -
If you note the SPDES permit,
which you should be fairly familiar with, it
does
not
deal
and divert it.
with
stormwater off
the
site.
That
is
a pre - existing condition.
P Jennette - People here are concerned with water volume and their basement being
wet.
R
Harner - If we
do nothing this
water is still going to go through the site. What I'm
saying is
we're going to
take this water
and divert it.
P Jennette - Have you calculated what the peak flow in a 100 year storm coming down
from the 70 acre watershed plus what's coming out of your pond, and also the capacity of the
stream which makes its way down here? Have you run a model on it?
R Harner - No.
P Jennette - Don't you need to know what the capacity of the stream is if you're adding
water to it?
R Harner - What we do know is that we are not going to increase the peak flow in that
stream.
Many untelligible comments from the audience.
Page 10 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
• R Harner - Somehow you are missing the concept of holding water. We have I believe
a 12 inch discharge pipe out of our pond so the peak discharge out of the pond will be less
than the peak discharge off that site to the creek under the present conditions. Pointed out
how the site presently drains- -part of it down behind houses and part of it to the creek.
P Jennette - So now you are going to make it all drain into your pond. You are going
to take the 100 year flood, the 100 year storm, you are going to put it in that creek. You are
going to take drainage that part of the site currently does not drain into the little creek and
you're going to put it into the little creek now, into a creek that already floods in a 100 year
storm.
R Harner - Do you believe that we can adjust, using the pond, that we can control the
flow so that the peak discharge in that stream downstream of the pond, does not increase.
Peak discharge.
P Jennette - You say you are serving the same drainage area, but you're not. You're
increasing the drainage area.
Geoff Potter - inquired whether they had walked the creek and was advised they have.
Art Lecoq, 935 Dryden Road - Has lived here since 1960. Has put $7,000 in that ditch.
Has contacted DEC and asked their recommendations. That pipe has been increased to a 3
foot pipe that will not accommodate the flow since Marchell put the pond in. He cannot get
flood insurance, cannot use his basement, has 5 sump pumps running. Will this help it?
Audience member - How come the local government doesn't take care of the creek?
Many jumbled comments about who should or should not be responsible for creeks or
water going across property. Mr. Lucente asked that they be civil.
Ken Tillapaugh - inquired about the entrance and exits to the project.
D Sutton ? - We are proposing a minor entrance on Mt Pleasant. We're assuming that
the majority of the traffic will go out Route 366. We did some calculations and determined
that we are not changing the level of service of that road. NYS DOT does not allow you to do
this without very strict control. They have full control over this. They deal with drainage, they
deal with traffic counts, turning lanes, on and on. All of our calculations point to not
changing the level of service.
Ken Tillapaugh - Where is the entrance from Route 366?
Dawn Potter - They've purchased Marchell's property and are going to tear those two
houses down, am I not correct Mr. Lucente?
S Lucente - No. We've arranged for a 50' right of way between Marchell's property and
Mrs. Case's property. We will be utilizing the driveways that are on the Marchell property.
M Case - The biggest share of that driveway belongs to me. It doesn't belong to
Marchell. Where the garage used to be, that's the end of Marchell's property. If we get a lot of
snow like we have in past years, who's going to plow the snow and is that water from the snow
going to be running into my basement? How are you going to stop that?
• S Lucente - There will be storm drains. We'll have to put a storm drain system.
Page 11 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
M Case - inquired if other members of the audience would like a driveway 50' from •
their porch so they can't set out there. He's going to put in a road.
Nancy Suci, 98 Turkey Hill Road - Wants to get scale of what we're talking about. How
many units are in the trailer park?
Response - 210.
N Suci - So we're putting something roughly similar to the trailer park. Almost as
many units as the trailer park. It gives you an idea of how many families, how many vehicles.
It's a nice spot. Somebody ought to live there. Is there a market for this many family units? A
lot of them are students I suppose.
S Lucente -
No, we
are not
involved in
the student business. We do have graduate
students, but most
of our
tenants
are visiting
scholars.
Harold Simmons, 836 Dryden
Road -
You gave
us
a figure of 74 more vehicles per
hour. You have 174 units. The other
people
are going
to
walk?
S Lucente - There will be more traffic. There have been thousands of studies done.
This is from the Institute of Transporation Engineers and is used to determine the amount of
traffic. What I'm saying is that during the peak hours, between 7 and 9 a.m. and 4 and 6
p.m., you can expect a volume of cars coming and going at 78 cars per hour.
The speed limit in the area was discussed between audience members and Mr.
Lucente.
K Finklestein - explained the difficulty he has getting out of his driveway already. 0
Mark
Purdy, 68
Mt Pleasant Rd - Is concerned
about the
steepness of the road where
Mr. Lucente
intends to
put driveway. Visibility is not
good, the
road is narrow.
S Lucente - We have drawings and profiles of the road. When you pull out here you
should have adequate sight distance, 350 feet looking down and 260 feet looking up. These
are based on NYS guidelines.
M Purdy - It gets very slippery in the winter.
S Lucente - The local population is familiar with winter conditions and hills.
Amelia Habicht - Are sight distances based on the grade of the road?
S Lucente - Yes, there is very strict criteria that is used.
A Habicht - It can be very difficult to stop in the road. Trees interfere with visibility.
S Lucente - The trees will have to be addressed.
Lynn Griffin - Most people who are family oriented tend to buy a one family unit or
rent it. This seems to me that its going to be a city on its own. It will have its own community
center. It will cost the town more. There will be more upkeep of the road, there will need to be
more police protection. Is this going to be family oriented or is it going to be a three bedroom
apartment with six students in it? Why do you need a community center? You've got one
here. Why do you need to bring this into Varna? People are in there for a year and then
Page 12 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
• Atty Perkins - No.
D Weinstein - You need to consider whether if a special permit was issued it will make
the environment more objectionable than the normal uses for that zoned land.
Atty
Perkins - This is an
allowed
use, it requires
a special permit because of the size of
the project.
Its different from a
use that
is only allowed
by special permit.
Supv Schug - This allows your questions to be considered by the engineers and the
owner, and hopefully addressed properly so that we can solve any problems that may occur
down the road. Noted that in his rental experience, many grad students are here for 3 to 5
years.
Jennifer Berger - Spoke in favor of grad students. She spends much time volunteering
for the Varna Fire Department. The current chief and the past two chiefs have been grad
students. They do their share for the community, many permanent residents don't volunteer
their time in that capacity.
Audience member - inquired whether residents will be reimbursed if the water and
sewer charges are reduced by a third as stated. How do you determine this.
S Lucente - Because there are per unit assessments.
Audience member - Has not noticed a reduction since Mr. Lucente's last project went
in.
• Lee Willcox - Willcox Press employs as many as 300 and may go to 500 in the future.
They have wonderful people and wonderful people need a place to live. He is in favor of the
project and hopes that Mr. Lucente's project goes in.
G Potter - inquired if the water and sewer system was adequate to handle the increase
and was informed that it was.
Audience member - questioned development of the trail and suggested that perhaps
the lighting and project would make the trail not quite as nice to hike along.
Supv Schug - buffering along the trail can be installed.
Audience member - questioned whether two driveways for the project were necessary.
ZO Slater - explained that for emergency services for a project of this size two means of
access were certainly necessary.
. d e-in173 in _ itt - Concerned about the number of units going on this hillside. It is a lot of
av, people added in a short number of time. Perhaps we should wait and see what happens with
Wka the project that has already been approved.
Gay Nicholson - Suggested that in order to stop the spread of the population this way,
we see what we can do to strengthen the City of Ithaca as a place to live and inquired if Mr.
Lucente has looked there for his project?
• S Lucente - No.
Page 14 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
they're out. It's not just water and traffic problems, its going to be its own city. I don't know if •
it has anything to do with this community.
Supv Schug - as far as what it will cost the town, its a private road so we don't
maintain it.
L Griffin - Police protection? Fire protection?
Supv Schug - Police protection is already here. You've got to remember that years ago
these people bought into our very first water and sewer districts. And because there is water
and sewer here and we have good roads, we have as a town have little or no control over it, its
going to get developed. Water, sewer, roads, gas -- you're not going to stop it. It's going to get
developed.
L Griffin - does not want to see it turn into another collegetown.
P Lucente - explained that their projects have been very successful in attracting
graduate students, professors and scholars coming into Cornell. Those are the types of
clients they hope to attract. A lot of people stay 4, 5 or 6 years.
D Weinstein - There are several studies that show that a project like this often costs a
town more than they get in tax revenues. Has surveyed people in the area. People who own
their homes are interested in the development of the community. Graduate students who are
renting are not so concerned about the community because they are leaving. We have had a
recent revitalization of the community, young families moving in. This will not help us, it will
be a detriment to the community to have more transient people in the community.
Gay Nicholson - With the Citizens Planning Alliance and lives in the hamlet of •
Ludlowville, Town of Lansing. They have seen great residential growth in Lansing and the
result has been that their school taxes have tripled.
Ken Finklestein - In Cayuga Heights school this year where his daughter started
kindergarten 12 children were unable to get in because of lack of space in that school and
had to go to school elsewhere. While he would like to see more families in Varna, he is
concerned about where they will attend school. What are the steps involved before a project
like this can be approved.
Supv Schug - This is one step of many that must be taken. The Health Department,
the State DOT, the Town Highway Department, the Fire Company, all of these people have to
look at it. Roads are affected, where they put fire hydrants. One thing we should be asking is
for any contractor to ask the bus service come up and take a look so that we know that
streets, entrances, whatever are Tompkins County friendly. We'll review this again to get your
concerns in front of Mr. Lucente, his design engineer, his traffic engineer so that if the project
goes through your concerns are answered adequately. He has to do this so that the Town
Board is perfectly happy with what he has done and has mitigated the problems that you are
bringing forth.
K Finklestein - Must the Dryden Town Planning Board approve this?
Supv Schug - We have asked them here as a courtesy and because we want their
input.
Robin Seeley - Is concerned about quality of life. Is there anything in Zoning that says
that projects can't alter the character of a neighborhood? is
Page 13 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
• Nancy - inquired if both driveways will be open from the beginning of the project and
was advised that they would.
B Gavitt - This will add to the tax rolls in Dryden and its good for Mr. Lucente's
business, should we also assume that it is good for Varna.
S Lucente - That is up to the people in Varna. With cooperation there is no reason it
can't be a positive addition to the community. Providing housing choices is going to be good
for Varna. Advised the public they will address all their concerns and invited them to call him
with questions.
Leslie Chatterton, 140 Mt Pleasant Rd - inquired about the site lighting.
R Harner -
basically
it
will be parking lot
lighting and walkway lighting. The lighting
can be controlled
so as not
to
interfere with the
community.
Cl R Beck - Inquired what the timeline was for the project.
S Lucente - Expects the project to take place over a 5 to 10 year span of time.
Cl R Beck - It seems then there is adequate time to make adjustments for the
community.
Supv
Schug - advised public
that the material
regarding the project can be viewed by
the public at
the Varna Community
Center as well as
at the Town Hall.
Patty Easton - Wondered if Lucente had considered townhouses instead of apartments.
S Lucente - has investigated the market. Many people prefer not to have a place where
they have to maintain the property.
Representative of Bailey Homes - Has had detailed experience with Mr. Lucente. He
does a quality, high end project and expects this project to be a plus for the community.
Supv Schug - Has received a letter Mike Hovanec in support of the project.
G Gavitt - Has anyone done a study about what this will do for the market value of
current homeowners.
Lucente - suggests his project will have a positive effect on property values.
Jack Bush, 31 Rochester Street - Is concerned for the County of Tompkins and
compares it to Cortland County. Suggests that 75 unit development on Port Watson Street
lowered the property values on surrounding properties. Doesn't want to see this happen in
Tompkins County. Taxes are high in New York State and businesses are leaving.
G Potter - Is concerned for the Varna Community Center, afraid it will have to close.
S Lucente - Wants to add to the services provided by the Community Center and
interact with the VCA to preserve the small town atmosphere.
G Potter - suggests that perhaps a path could be built from the project to the
• community center.
Page 15 of 16
SP 5 -21 -98
John King, 980 Dryden Road - Wondered about the speed limit through Varna. •
Supv Schug Advised him that at the previous meeting he advised the public to
circulate a petition detailing their requests for the road. The Town can then make a
resolution and submit it to NYS DOT for consideration.
J King - Is concerned for the children in the community.
Molly Case - Asked where the driveway from Route 366 would be located and was
shown on the map where that would be.
Cl T Hatfield - Would like to see the phases of construction described in more detail.
Supv Schug - We'll get back together at a later date and discuss the questions that
have been presented tonight.
Public hearing adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
Page 16 of 16
TB 5 -21 -98
• TOWN OF DRYDEN
SPECIAL TOWN BOARD MEETING
MAY 21, 1998
Members and guests participated in a moment of silence followed by the pledge of
allegiance.
Roll call was by Town Clerk Bambi L. Hollenbeck
Cl R Beck Present
Cl T Hatfield Present
Cl C Hatfield Absent
Cl D Grantham Present
Attorney Perkins Present
Supervisor Schug Present
Supervisor asked those who are able to please participate in the Dairy Day Parade. Cl
D Grantham and Cl T Hatfield indicated they would be available.
Chipping day will be June 6, 1998, at the Johnson Road site for residents to bring small
trees, branches, etc for chipping.
Supv Schug asked the Board members to review the insurance quotes provided in their
packets. The need for increased umbrella coverage was discussed. To raise the umbrella
coverage to $3 million will cost an additional $2,229 per year and to increase coverage to $5
• million will cost $2,947 per year.
RESOLUTION # 137 - INCREASE UMBRELLA COVERAGE TO $5 MILLION
Cl D Grantham offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
RESOLVED, that this Town Board increase the umbrella coverage of the Town
insurance policies to $5 million, and hereby authorizes the payment of $2,947 for said
increased coverage.
2nd Cl R Beck
Roll Call Vote Cl
R
Beck
Yes
Cl
T
Hatfield
Yes
Cl
D
Grantham
Yes
Atty Perkins - Dr. Robert M. Penna, who is conducting the study on the secondary
effects of sexually oriented businesses, was in town last week. He met with Henry Slater and
is getting census track data from the County. We toured the Town and identified the different
districts. It gave him a flavor of the commercial centers of the Town, the rural areas of the
Town. He has a copy of the Zoning Ordinance and Zoning map. He has a good grasp on where
we are and where we want to go. He proposes to hold a public hearing some time in June to
hear residents' comments about the secondary effects or their perception of what they are and
what should be regulated. We will try to obtain a guest spot for him on the KC Stevens
program to stimulate some discussion of what people are thinking. I made available to him the
file I've been keeping on public reaction, letters to the editor, and so forth. He anticipates we
should be in a position to adopt some regulations in July. That would mean extending the
current moratorium for a short period of time. He has suggested a 30 day extension. I suggest
Page 1 of 3
TB 5 -21 -98
• that we extend it to July 20, 1998. That would give us sufficient time after the July Board
Meeting to file any proposed Local Law with the Secretary of State or publish any proposed
Zoning Ordinance changes. I ask that you consider adopting a proposed local law (Local Law
D) extending the moratorium to July 20, 1998,
Cl D Grantham - suggested that a Board member be on the radio show with Dr. Penna
and suggested that Cl T Hatfield do so.
RESOLUTION # 138 - EXTEND THE MORATORIUM ESTABLISHED
BY LOCAL LAW NO. 3 OF THE YEAR 1997
Cl T Hatfield offered the following resolution and asked for its adoption:
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Dryden has heretofore adopted Local Law
No. 3 of the year 1997 effective December 18, 1997, and
WHEREAS, said Local Law provides for a 180 day moratorium prohibiting the
establishment of any adult use (sexually oriented business) in the Town (exclusive of the
Villages), and
WHEREAS, the Town has retained the services of Robert M. Penna, PhD. to prepare a
study on the secondary effects of sexually oriented businesses in contemplation of local
regulation of such businesses, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board has not yet received Dr. Penna's report, and
0 WHEREAS, due to the complexity of the subject and local interest thereon, it is
necessary to extend the 180 day moratorium,
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED AS FOLLOWS:
The following local law is hereby introduced and a public hearing thereon is scheduled
for June 9, 1998, at 7:30 p.m. prevailing time at the Town Hall, 65 East Main Street, Dryden,
New York:
PROPOSED LOCAL LAW D of the Year 1998
Section 1. The moratorium established by Local Law No. 3 of the year 1997 is hereby
extended to July 20, 1998,
Section 2. This local law shall take effect immediately upon filing in the office of the
Secretary of State.
2nd Cl R Beck
Roll Call Vote Cl R Beck Yes
Cl T Hatfield Yes
Cl D Grantham Yes
Supv Schug advised the Board that the Highway Department will be going on a 4 day
week at the end of the month.
Supv Schug thanked the Varna Community Association for allowing the use of their
is building.
Page 2 of 3
TB 5 -21 -98
Upon motion made, seconded and unanimously carried the meeting was adjourned at
10:02 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
'69,'b; I fi6-r("e'<
Bambi L. Hollenbeck
Town Clerk
Page 3 of 3
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