HomeMy WebLinkAbout1991-01-07z65
1991
MINUTES OF TOWN BOARD MEETING HELD MONDAY, JANUARY 7, 1991 AT 7:30 POM0
Those present: Teresa M. Robinson, Supervisor
Gordon C. VanBenschoten, Councilman
Ellard L. Sovocool, Councilman
Carl E. Haynes, Councilman
Absent: Donald E. Cummings, Councilman
Absent: Jack Fitzgerald, Attorney
Also present: Leland Cornelius,'Lyle Raymond, Chuck Rankin, Gary Wood
SPCA - Pam Stonebacker, Director and Stephanie Shaft,
President
Oath of office was administered to all officials present.
Moved by Mr. VanBenschoten, seconded by Mr. Sovocool, to approve minutes of
December 10 and 26 meetings as presented. Ayes - VanBenschoten, Sovocool,
Haynes, Robinson.
Claim Nos. 678 to 689 of the 1990 Highway Fund
were presented for audit. Also Claim Nos, 6 ?8
Fund in the amount of $5,957.96 and Claim Nos.
Fund in the:amount.of $3,008.95 were presented
Mr. Sovocool, seconded by Mr. Haynes, that the
payment. Ayes - VanBenschoten, Sovocool, Hayn
in- the- amount of $8,9'78.28
to 689 of the 1990 General
1 to 8 of the 1.991 General
for audit. Moved by
bills be approved for
es, Robinson.
RESOLUTION N0. 1 - 1991 ORGANIZATIONAL ITEMS
Moved
by Mr. Sovocool,
seconded
by Mr.
Haynes
Ayes - VanBenschoten,
Sovocool,
Haynes,
Robinson
RESOLVED, that the First National Bank of Groton be designated
as the depository for all monies coming in the hands of the Supervisor
and Town Clerk of the Town of Groton.
RESOLVED, that the Republican Register be designated as the official
newspaper of the Town of Groton with certain subjects to be published
in the Shopper.
RESOLVED, that the law firm of Fitzgerald, Taylor, Pomeroy and Armstrong
be retained as Attorneys for -the Town of Groton.
RESOLVED, that Gary E. Wood be appointed Zoning Officer and Building
and Fire Code Inspector for the Town of Groton.
RESOLVED, that Edwin Dow be appointed as Constable for the Town of
Groton.
RESOLVED, that Gordon C. VanBenschoten be appointed Deputy Supervisor
for the Town of Groton.
RESOLVED, that Kenneth H. Marks be appointed Deputy Highway Superintendent
for the Town of Groton.
RESOLVED, that Carol G. Marks be appointed Deputy Town Clerk for the
Town of Groton.
RESOLVED, that Margaret A. Palmer be appointed part -time Court Clerk
for the Torun of Groton.
• RESOLVED, that Dorothy Ostrander be appointed Historian for the Town
of Groton.
RESOLVED, that Leonard Proper and Gordon Lockwood be appointed as
Election Custodians for the Town of Groton.
RESOLVED, that small tool expenditures of up to $500900 by the
Highway Superintendent be authorized.
RESOLVED, that Bluef'Cross -Blue Shield Health Insurance for the
Supervisor and Town Clerk be paid by the Town of Groton.
266
Moved by Mr. VanBenschoten, seconded by Mr. Haynes
Ayes - VanBenschoten, Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson
RESOLVED, that the Town Board does hereby fix the annual salaries of
the following Town Officers and employees at the amounts respectfully
stated and that such salaries shall be paid at the time respectfully
specified:
� 1 a }:,' ]ereda M..•, Robinson,,; 'Supervisor $12,852.00 Bi Weekly
b Colleen D. Pierson, Town Clerk $19,300.00 Bi Weekly
c Leland E. Cornelius, Hwy. Supt. $32,000.00 Bi Weekly
d Arland L. Heffron, Town Justice $ 4,746.26 Bi Weekly
e Robert F. Walpole, Town Justice $ 4,514.74 Bi Weekly
f F.,llard L. Sovocool, Councilman $ 1,324.00 Quarterly
g Gordon C. VanBenschoten, Councilman $ 1,324.00 Quarterly
h} Donald E. Cummings, Councilman $ 1,324.00 Quarterly
i Carl E. Haynes, Councilman $ 1,324.00 Quarterly
j) Cary L. Wood, Code Enforcement Officer $1.3,230.00'Bi `sleekly
k) Attorney for Town $ 6,000.00 Quarterly
Moved by Mr. Sovocool, seconded by Mr. VanBenschoten
Ayes - VanBenschoten, Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson
RESOLVED, to appoint the following as representatives to Town and
County programs:
County Youth Recreation Programs - John Gaines
Environmental Management Council - Lyle Raymond
Route 13 Task Force - Transportation - Carl Haynes
Tompkins County CATV Commission - Colleen Pierson
Tompkins County Planning Board - George Totma.n
Local Youth Group - Ellen Cornelius, Teresa Robinson,
Jane Ea.des
Moved by Mr. Haynes, seconded by Mr. Sovocool
Ayes - VanBenschoten, Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson
RESOLVED, to approve appointments of Supervisor Robinson's Committee
Members as follows:
Finance - Carl Haynes
Machinery - Gordon-VanBenschoten
Building - Donald Cummings and Teresa Robinson
Fire Department - Lewis Sovocool
Personnel - Carl Haynes
Zoning, Building & Fire Code - Lewis Sovocool
Light Districts - Teresa Robinson
Fixed Assets - Carl Haynes
Senior Citizens - Lewis Sovocool
Planning Board - Donald Cummings
Appeals Board - Donald Cummings
Highway - Gordon VanBenschoten
Policy - Don Cummings and Carl Haynes
Dedication of New Building - Gordon VanBenschoten & Teresa Robinson
Moved by Mr. Haynes, seconded by Mr. VanBenschoten
Ayes - VanBenschoten, Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson
RESOLVED, that fees for Town services be set as follows:.
1} Master List for Excavating Purposes '$,.2.
2 Fee for Certification of Taxes $ 3.
3) Photocopies $
4 Verified Transcripts of Marriage $ 5.
5 Marriage Certificates $ 5.
6 Marriage License $20.
7 Town and Village Maps $
8 County Maps $
9 Mileage for Town Officials $
10 log Licenses $120
$ 7.
00
00 1st yr, $1.00 ea. addn. yr. •
25
00
00
00
50
27
50 - unneutered & unspayed
50 - neutered & spayed
Moved by Mr. VanBenschoten,.seconded by Mr. Sovocool, to set Town Board
Fleeting night for the second Monday of each month at 7:30 PM to be held
at the Town Hall. Ayes - VanBenschoten, Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson.
1 ,
.2.64.7,
' . • - ri
Moved by Mr. Sovocool, seconded by Mr. VanBenschoten, to set hourly rate of
Cleaner at $6.00 per hour, Deputy Town Clerk at $7.00 per hour and Court
Clerk at $7.00 per hour. Ayes - VanBenschoten, Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson.
Moved by Mr. VanBenschoten, seconded by Mr. Sovocool, to set an annual
salary of $1000.00 for the Town Historian and $500.00 contractual to attend
N YS Association of Towns Fleeting in New York City. Ayes - VanBenschoten,
Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson.
Moved by Mr. Haynes, seconded by Mr. Sovocool, to appoint Teresa M. Robinson
as Delegate to the annual Association of Towns Meeting to be held in NYC on
February 17 -20, 1991, and to appoint George Totman as an alternate. Ayes -
VanB enschoten, Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson.
• No action was taken to set court rental fees. Supervisor will get cost
comparison figures from 1988 and 1990 for next months meeting.
8:00 PM - Hearing - Dog Ordinance Fee Increase
Town Clerk read legal notice which was published in the Republican
Register on December 1.9, 1991.
T. Robinson - Does anyone have any comments? The SPCA is here to
explain or answer any questions.
S. Shaft - We explained our position last month. If anyone has any
further questions we would be happy to answer them. For
public record, by doing this increase .... in 1990 Groton
had a total of 915 licensed dogs which should have netted
$2,287.50 for local fee portion of license. With an
increase to $12.50 and $7.50, you should take in next year
(1991) if you don't have a significant increase in dogs for
this year in Groton, $4,575 from the local portion of
license fee.
T. Robinson - We are having an enumeration. Well, I think we'll
close the hearing.
Hearing closed at 8:10PM,
RESOLIJTION''NO. ,.2 - INCREASE IMPOUNDMENT FEES
Moved by Mr. Haynes, seconded by Mr. VanBenschoten
Ayes - VanBenschoten, Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson
RESOLVED, that the 'Town Board of the Town of Groton does hereby
increase impoundment fees to $15.00 for the first impoundment,.
$30.00 for the second impoundment and $45.00 for the third and
subsequent impoundments.
RESOLUTION N0. 3 - AMEND ORDINANCE RELATING TO OWNING OR
HARBORING AN UNLICENSED DOG
Moved by Mr. Haynes, seconded by Mr. VanBenschoten
Ayes - VadB enschoten, Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson
RESOLVED, that the Town Board of the Town of Groton does hereby
amend Ordinance Relating to Owning or Harboring an Unlicensed log
• to provide for increased fees and duly adopted the following
ordinance:
LEGAL NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN, pursuant to Section 130 of the Town
Law of the State of New York that the Town Board of•the Town of Groton,
New York, has on the 7th day of January, 1991, adopted the following
ordinance:
b '
ORDINANCE RELATING TO OWNING
OR HARBORING AN UNLICENSED DOG
1, Lim: Arty pexson a resid,ont of the Town' of Groton who owns
or h rbors a dog six months of age or older shall l media.tely
make application for a dog license. No 'license shall b'e
required fox any dog which is under the age of sl%K months and
which is not at large.
2. Fee:
The
license
fee
shall be as follows payable to the
Town
Clerk
of
tie
Town
of Groton
(a) For each neutered male or spayed femme - & 7,50
{b) For each unneutered male or unspayed female $12,50
3. VioY�: 1. It shall be a violation for any owner who fails
to license any dog and pay the license fee as provided in
Section 1 and Suction 2 of this ordinance.
. The violation shall be punishable upon conviction
by a fine not to exceed ten' dollars {$10.00 }.
Thu ordinance adopted September 24th,
1979, is hereby arnsnded.
Colleen D. Pierson, Town Clerk
Coiirt rental fee to " the Village for 1991 was discussed. Board req>zested
that increase on utilities be compared with figures from 1988. Supervisor
w111 hove figur-es'for next board meeting,
Lyle Raymond vias present to report that the Natutural Ar8a Survey and
Underground Tank Study were now ready to be made 1)ublic. He thought
that the best way to distribute information would be to,make a presentation
to !Town and Village Boards. Presentation would take about 1 hour.�,:.lr,.Lyle
suggested that this could be done before a'-regular board meeting. Nonda#y,
February 4, 1991, at 7:OCFM eras set for presentation.
RE` OLUTION N0. 4 - SET FEBRUARY BOARD MEETING FOR THE 4TH
Moved by Mr. Haynes, seconded by Mr. VanBenschoten
Ayes Vaaenschoten, Sovococil, Haynes, Robinson
m I
RESOLVED, that the regular February Town Board Meeting be changed
to Monday, February Z�, 1991, at 8:00 P,M, at the Town Hall&
Consensus of Board was to accept $2600 for old ohipper owned jointly by
Village and Town
Moved by Mr. Haynes, seconded by Mx. Sovocool, that the Town continue to
receive the New York State Register as in the past. Ayes - vanBenschoten,
Sovocool, Haynes, Robinson,
Moved by Mrs. Robinson, seconded by Mr. VanBenschoten, to go into executive
session to discuss personnel problems at }:1CPM,
Board Meeting xeconvened at ; 5PM.
Chuck Rankin, Bookkeeper, reported that payroll with new rates is okay.
A problem they are having is trying to mold two funds into one, Another
cheoking account may ease this. Computer prograiq keeps crashing. Deeds
to order a printer. Has gotten behind but should be gaining snort.
Gary Wood retorted that he is willing to work as a taedia.tor with Frei ji
and Electrical 7nspector� to resolve problem of upgrading eleectrjcal in
highway garage. Mr. Wood also reported that the $10,000 is not an invoice
from McFarland /Johnson, It was used to show ove=un to Banding Company.
Zoning Annual Report - 1988 - 84 bldg. permits - .3 Million
1989 79 bldg, permits 1.7 million
1990 - 90 bldg. perinit:s 245 milliorl with
19 new houses, 25 Inobile home, 44 Mist.
0
2`6
Gary Wood, Code Enfoxceiriant Officer, reported sequence of Herb Tichenar's
applications for building permit.
ist - Subdivided lot to create a non- corkfcrming lot - Turned sown
grid - Applied to build house - not explicit as to k *hat he wannted to do regarding
lot.
3rd - Reapplied to build .louse in same location,
xring last aneeting, Lyle, Jack and I sat out and discussed it. Jack's opinion
was that you'd stand a chance of a problem ei.thex way but certainly there was
no goad reason to defend turning it down. The man has 34 acres, 80Q' of
frontage and wants to build a house. If you go out and look at the property,
you can eee why he wants to put the house right t behind where the other two
are because thats the flat pied of property. I suppose he doesn't want to
build on side hill. He wants to build a modular, he's got the health depart-
ment approval and teat's where he wants to build it. $o, 1 presented it
essentially that I would reject it....... , How do I turn this dawn. You aaza
do whatever you want. Either way, there's always the chance that there's
going to be something that happens . , .. , ...But it would be difficult to
defend,...... A few days later, I got a, call from Lyle Raymond and he said
he 'could probably rehear that. Well,, why would you want to rehear it?
That's the x'eaeon.. , , , .... So, time hay transpired and I didn't get anything
done about it and the day before Tiehenor's were leaving town she called
one and wanted to know what I was going to do about it. And I Said, ah shoot
I guess I will issue it. So that is where I stood, 'And the next day the
adjoining owner was in looking for copies of the Planning Board records and
wanted to know what had happened, So, aa� it stands today, that's where the
damn thing stands.
L. Sovocool - Why was it turn4 cd clown the first time?
G. Wood - Because he was going to eareate a non - conforming lot.
L. Sovocool - Has he got 200'?
G. idood - That's the whole debate. (Drew map of property for board).
Whexe he wants to plunk the house is there and this has 138' of
frontage in there which, for whatevex it's worth, is consistent
with these two lots. I oan!t site the exact nObe2�s, but these
ax'e also non- confoming lots. It is a lot thats- separate, but
adJaaent to them. Which again is a nornEal crlIterion for giving
theta a vaueiance if its consistent W:rLth the rest of the
neighborhood....,.
L. SoV00001 - But he'a� only got 138' right here,
G. Wood - Right 'there,
L. Sovocool - And that's the problem, right"?
. Yk) od - The problem, I think, is tine adjoining Knapp has got a feud going
with him and wants to keep him From building there and he's
¢etting' to somebody on the planning board or whatever. Why would
Lyle Raymond give me a call and say we would rehear this thing.
Now, I'll tell you, Teresa came in the other day and she said
that I want to be sure that he doesn't get any Favors- -that, he
gets treated, the same as everybody else.- I've got to say that I
think asiybody else would have had that permit two years ago. Now,
if we'd have gone to anybody else in the town and they had 34 acre
parcel and they wanted to build a }louse on it
L. Sovocool bell, 1 know he's got the 34 aeres but he hasn't got the road
frontage for that particular plane he wanta� to put the lot.
D. VanBenschoten.- How does the ordinance read? If he were to came around
the horseshoe there arkd tack on the other '
G. Woad - The ordinance za such .....,,, that too. My owm feeling has
always been that it does not say that it has to be 200 contiguous
feet. Jack rules to the contrary, He says that it's implied it
has to be. We can live with that a.yisd when the Zoning Board of
Appeals turned down the first a4pplieation, i.t was on those grounds- -
that it had to be contiguous Xootage - -no greblen, there and they
said no, oRay, that's satisfactary. Now, taking that kin a different
context, if, as I've tried to do this With Lyle Raymond, if you t4Dok
this 'Ching and said alright do you want to build it over here --
everybody said fine - -no problem. Do you want to build I over herea-
ya no problem. Do you want to'build it
hY� over h4i`-- yah,.,. -�wel�
where's the point where you say you can't do it ?' And 'again it isn't
a case whex� it's any judgement and 1 d,on't or can' �t really speak
fox him, but if it rere rty Property, I think that's 'where I'd want
to build a house too. Again, because of 'the' level spat in the
property,
:J 0
T. Robinson - Can I ask you a question? If you had a piece of property and
you had 00' of frontage set aide ov8r here and made that
the property, them would be no question whether you could
have it, right? Any place you want it on that land.
G, Wood - If you take that position, Teresa, then.he now has 600' of
frontage an that other side.
T. Robinson - ?1o, I'm not saying 600'. I said he has to have 2001
.......
G. ?food - No, I'in saying he has a full 200' 'because he's no longer talking
about subdividing and he's acknowledged that to ever subdivide
that property w9tild require Et variance for that purpose.
C. Haynes - Teresa raised an interesting question there if .Vm fallowing it,
Let's .5appose that on the West side of Simms you define Z00' and
you draw a line xightback there and you call.that a parcel of
land. Then nothing will pxevent him from building his house
xight back there whexe he wants and putting the dx'i%v8way any
place he wants on that poxael.
G. Wood � I would hold that, yes.
. Haynes - I mean, and he's still got the rest of this land to do what he
wants to wit}-. Because it's no longer a question, ?.00 contiguous
feet, it takes more of his land to do it, right?
G. Wood*- Yess, but this line doesn't exist..
C. Haynes - Yes, but you could stipulate that or mak42 it a condition on
permit.
G, ` rood - I don't think there's any x'eaELon to. He's acknowledged ........
T. Robinson - Yah, but if he wanted to sell it
G. 1.400d If he wanted to sell it that's another wholee ball game, Someday
when he wants to sell that he's got either to =eato a conforming
lot, like. what you say, or he's got to get a variance to create a
non - conforming lot or anything,
C. Haynes - But isn't the time to do that now?
G. Wood - Let's go back -- We have a farmer, 100 acres or hundreds of acres,
he wants to put up a house for his son who.'s going to take over
the farm. Do we 'tell him he's going to have to create a lot to do
'ghat? I mean there are a lot of cases Ike this, Ga.rl, I've
probably issued dozens of permits along that line.' lau won't say,,
well all right, you've got to sell off a parcel to youx'.sona Sav
why do you tell thin guy, okay, you've got to divide that property'
your before I can get you your building permit.
C. Haynes It seems to me that you'd have to look at it in the kind of
cixcurmstances. I mean, if I had the potential of Winding up
here with what someday may be a non- conforming lot 'then it
seems to me that you'd need to exercise,- something a little bit
different than you would for a farmer that's got 2,000' vroad
frontage and he's building two or three houses.
G. Wood - Yes and no. Maybe the way to handle this parcel, when he wants
to do that, is these lots and then you've left with a, or keep a
conforming lot in the end and riot allowed to be subdivided to make
a non- conforming tat. So you many be working from this side over, or
C. Haynes - I'm not saying you've got to require a. subdivision, I'M ,just
saying that the stipulation is that this lot shall have a minimum
of 200 contiguous feet given the :fact that you have a risk here.
The farmer you're talking about wants to sell some land, Y"
may want to tell him the same thing, but with him it may not be
such a risk to a farmer who's got a lot of land,
T. Robinson - I thought when you made a permit you had to have a stipulated
axea, don't you?
G. Blood - Well, I have in Fact handled it that way.
T. Robisnon - Just ae an example, you have Danny Carey.
G. Food - Dan Cixey was the one I had in mind when I said that, Thexa was a
tiine when I carne on here that it was held that you could have but
one residence on a property. And I wish Jack was here because I'd
like to confront him about this, but it was head that you couldn't
have but one residence on the property and there was a couple that
bought a piece of property out on Clark Street Extension, I can't
remember their .dames, and we made them actually draw that into two
lots before they got a permit. We did a similar thing with B. Puffy
0
up there where he bought off from Gleason.
T. Robinson - But you had too.
G. Wood - Well, but, as you said the other day, you've got to treat everybody
alike. And I finally said to Jack,
you really
can't read that in
this ordinance. And, so,
what I've
been doing
in recent history
is saying to people like
Dan Carey
is give me a site plan which
shows me where you got a
legitimate
lot around
this home and yes,
in fact, that's what ........
l'. Robinson - If he were to sell that to somebody else and move into the
big house, you've got to have a differentiation or something
to sell.....
G. !flood - I guess the more important, or the way I see that Teresa is you've
got to make sure before you issue the permit that the potential
• exists for being able to divide that property off without creating
a non - conforming lot. Monica,- we did the same thing. That was a-`
908*04 off a lot.
T. Robinson - ?That I was just saying is when somebody comes in for a permit
they've got to have a piece of land so you can say they've
got an acre or whatever.
C. Haynes - What does Herbies building permit application look like? What's
he actually applying for? The First time you said he actually
applied for a subdivision and was turned down.
G. Wood - He applied to divide the lot. It wasn't actually a subdivision
because it was only one lot but he applied to parcel the property
in such a way that it would create a non - conforming lot mainly by
going right back through here. I think that's right anyway.
Maybe it was over here, I'm not sure 100 %.
C. Haynes - That sounds like a legitimate rejection in my mind..
G. Wood - Okay -- The difference I would have on that -- Quite'often you
pass those things if they're consistant with the other properties
in the. area. In this case they chose not to.
C. Haynes - Okay. So now, number two application -- What was he applying
for then? What did he do?
G. Wood - He gave us an application that looked like this (drew sketch).
C. Haynes - Same location as first time?
G. Wood - Yah. Yes, he's always stuck to the same location which is right
here basically to the rear of Simms property.
C. Haynes - What was the -- Technically, was there any difference between
the two?
G. 'flood - Between those two there was because,the first one showed a property
line, the second one did. not.
C. Haynes - Oh, he just showed the whole area? Why did the Zoning Board turn
that one down, the same reason? Did they just think he was
going around the mulberry bush to get where he wanted to get the
first time?
G. Wood - Yah, I guess maybe that's one way to answer.it. They went through
kind of a contorted logic that if he had no other options, if he
didn't own any more property over here, then they could grant it,
but since he did own more property, and I guess what that really
-boiled down to was that he could build over here, therefore he
didn't need the variance.
C. Haynes - Oh, they turned the variance down because they said he didn't
need it.
G. Wood - Now, you're missing the obvious question though. Why in the hell
did I turn down that second application?
C. Haynes - Oh, you turned it down first? That is a good question.
G. Wood - I don't have the answer.
C. Haynes - What's the third application look like?
G. Wood - The same.
T. Robinson - But that's the whole piece of property then?
G. Wood - Yah.
20AV1..
9
k
272
T. Robinson - If you ware to give a permit to hiM with it, 14ritten up
saying that there should be maintained on this side atleast
200', would that be illegal?
G, Wood - I don't know. I couldi' t answer that one. I think ,•hat I could
answer its that I think that would be acceptable to him. I right
be wrong, -but I think it would be.
C. Haynes - Where in Fact is this application? Has.he actually applied?
G. Wood Oh yes, yes.
Haynes - It hasn't; gone thr6ugh the Town Clerk's office has it?
G. Wood - It Came into the Torn Clerk's office. I hpppe�n to have it right
now, 4lhioh is not unusual, Carl. I take those things and I put
them in ray brief case or I put thenn on my desk or whatevex and
do a plan review and then.,,.,, so it is not always in the file,
T, Robinson - Md this is a j.,egal one. I EneaUl it is all paid for and
that jazz,
G. road - .Yah.
G. VanBenschoten - What you're saying, Teresa, is the '130 plus 70
G. Wood - No, what she's saying is on the other side where your pointing,
C. Haynes That's an i.ritsresting idea. In other words instead of 70,
go 200' on the ?lest side of Simms property,
D. VanBenschoten - Okay.
T, Robinson - Su you have the 200' and you could do whatever you wanted
to with tha,ti other that you have on the otherside.
C. Haynes - There is nothing in the zoning ordinance that �%5ay8 a guy can't
build ar driveway where he waAt,s it or put a house in the same
place as long as he's got the 200' frontage.
G. Wood - There's nothing-in the zoning oxdinanc'e that says where you've
got to Place the building on' the lot accept for the side yard
and front yard, if the'lot will accept that.
C. Haynes - And that's not a problem With where he wants to put.'his house?
G, Wood, - That is correct, it is not, That's why I don't have a problem
with it.
G. Haynes - Do you have the authority then to issue a building permit and
make that kind of a stipulation'
G. good - If that is that we can legally require, yes, In other -words, I
don't have the oxder to make judgements but I Certainly have the
authority to stipulate if something requires x 10 floor joists,
I can say it's got to be a 2 x 10 floor ,foist, And I don't see
where' thin would be ,0,414
C. Hayne$ In other wordy if it says ,you've got to have 200' of contiguous
road fx'ontage to have a house, then you cart say that. It
seema to me a pretty simple case unless-Hertie's fighting that
and I can't imagine
G, Wood - I don't think that he will but that another thing, I haven't
Approached him. I think the problem is that a neighbor is
determined that he's going to try to keep him fz'`om tuiId;ing in
that area.
T. Robinson But that is not our business. That's a fence business. W e'r`e
not in the fence business,
L. Sovocool - It's Herbie '.s land too,' so what the hell.
T, Robinson - If' trey want 'Cc fight, that's the2`e problem. They can get
their lawyer. As long as we're legal in doing what we're
supposed to he'a going to haVe to decide whatever he waits
to do.
C. Haynes - They can-be unhappy ab
end is that we've got
I don't know if what I
but it makes serlse or
we ought to get someon
Out it. but I think the key thing on our
to know whatevex - we tip is right, legal,
I
ust said or what Teresa, said is legal,
sounds like it ought to be, but maybe
e else$ opinion.
PJ
2! 3
G. Wood - I don't believe that anybody would test that part. Now, where we
stand a chance, I suppose, of a legal challenge is if Knapp wants
to bad enough he may contest that since the Zoning Board has turned
this down atleast once that I have no authority to issue a permit.
But, again, that was the discussion we had with Jack here in the '
back room and Jack said, "eh, either way ".
C. Haynes - Yeh, but when a guy comes back in with a third proposal which
actually is a little different or something ......
T. Robinson - He's got the frontage but
C. Haynes - The proposal is that your answer is ..... and I might be reading
a whole lot into this that isn't there but I mean if the Zoning
Board turned it down out of the wild ....... of the trust issue
and all they say is he's looking at the whole 34 acres and 800'
and we've got no stipulation on this thing and what's to prevent
him from doing what he wants to do anyway and five years from
now he wants to sell. Well, I'd probably be turning it down
too for that reason: It just kind of smells a little bit. But,
if he's really coming in and what he's really saying is look,
I really don't care about subdividing the rest of that land, it
sort of doesn't make any difference anyway with the topography
and so on, and I•don't care if you put a 200' frontage limitation
or more if you wanted to, then I don't think anybodys got an
argument. I can't even imagine the Zoning Board has got an
argument. I don't see how they could argue that. I'm no expert
on this.
G. Wood - My own feeling is, Carl, that we're probably all as expert as
anybody else is to tell you the-truth. I mean a lot of common
sense has got to be applied. It's a judgement call and either
way you run into some risks.
T. Robinson - The only thing about it is you have the 200' and somebody
can't come up to you and say, well, you haven't got a contiguous
200` and you haven't set a precedent so people can say, well
you gave and done something different here and if you can do
it, I •can do it.
L. Sovocool - But, he owns behind Simms house
G. Wood - Yes, he does. He does not own behind that -- no, I can't be sure
of that.
C. Haynes - Where are we at in the process? Is there some point in which
this thing automatically is
G. Wood - No. Where we're at is the law says I have to issue a permit in
20 days. It's now been about 30 days. Then it doesn't say what
happens if I don't issue the damn thing. It does not say it
automatically becomes done if you don't do it.
C. Haynes - How do the days count? Just work days or
G. blood - It ,just says days. I've always treated it as calender days.
C. Haynes - So, what's next?
G. Wood - I guess I would like to hear some guidance from you. 110ne way or the
other, -we•. stand the chance of having to fund the coat of a
lawsuit I suppose. You aright want to weigh the odds, the particular
would sue you versus the odds that Knapp will sue you. My own
feeling is that it ought to have been issued, personally, and as I
• said earlier, I'm a little bit short of an excuse for not having
done it earlier- -the second time.
T. Robinson - I think I would put in the stipulation that it has to have
atleast 200' frontage on the other side if it was ever sold.
The way it is it doesn't make any difference.
L. Sovocool - If you put 200' on the other side; you've got another lot.
You still have got this lot here of 138'.
G. Mood - Well,- I suppose somewhere down the road, 50 years from now, this
may be back up but conditions may be.different then....
T. Robinson - You don't have to have 200' now but you're going to have other
people that are going to come around .......
G. blood - We11, you see that's where Tichenor's got an argument. You've got
two of them right up here on Route 38, Locke Road, where the Zoning
Board gave them variances.
C. Haynes - But what was the situation?
G. Wood - Not far different. I can't remember names, Colleen can probably
help me with the names, but one was a frontage of around 100' and.
went back into a parcel that had thirty or forty or fifty acres or
something like that ....
C. Pierson - They were existing lots though.
G. Wood - You're right, they were both existing lots.
T. Robinson - Was that Lukers and the Log Cabin?
G. ?flood - Yes, but my counter to what you said, Colleen, is that Tichenors
is an existing lot and Tichenors is an existing conforming lot. •
It's not a non - conforming lot. What's non- conforming.is that the
neighbor doesn't want the house back there next to him.
C. Haynes - But other than the neighbors issue, my guess is that the Zoning
Board probably having been conditioned to his first proposal
doesn't see anything in there that's going to prevent Herb from
doing that if he decides he wants to.
G. Wood - Yeh, I
think
C. Haynes - To
me the answer
is simple- -that you make some sort
of stipulation
to
make sure
that that doesn't happen. I don't see
how anybody
can
have any
argument with that. And if you've got
the authority
to
do that --
it sounds to simple to me.
G. Wood - Well, I think this is the analogy I made a little bit earlier, we
can put any kind of stipulation on there. I suppose somewhere along
-the line someone could contest that in court and get it thrown out
or something. So what.
C. Haynes - Did that sort of idea emerge at all with your discussions with
Jack? If Jack were here right now and we were suggesting Teresa's
idea here that its got to be a minimum of 200 contiguous feet
and in the event that the house and land associated with it were
sold
G. Wood - I think not. I think it's pretty well understood, and accepted,
that the 200' has to be continuous, whether or not Gary agrees
with that. And I'm willing to accept that. But, I think that the
understanding that we had in that discussion was that there's no
talk about, at this point, about dividing that property.
T. Robinson -But you know that's a possibility.
G. Wood - That maybe, but I was going to say if he wants to do that someday
in the future, that can be addressed at that time. However, I
have no problem with putting that in the plan review ,just like a
lot of other things. Just one more condition in that plan.
C. Haynes - Or you could even go one step further, as Dutch was saying
earlier that there's talk at the County level that the minimum
frontage requirements may go up to 250 or 300 feet. You might
even want to say minimum of 200 or whatever frontage 'requirement
is in effect act the time it is sold. Suppose five years from
now he wants to sell it and the minimum frontage requirement is
300, then it ought to be 300'.
D. VanBenschoten - That would automatically kick in anyhow, this County ... •
G. Wood - I don't know how the County rules that Dutch.
C. Haynes - If he approved a building permit that said 200' thats going to
be an existing condition at the time a new law comes into effect
that says 300', for example, then I think Herb would have the
basis to say, hey look, this thing was approved at 200'. As a
pre- existing condition you can't make me go to 3001. But if we
said 200' or whatever frontage requirement is in effect at the
time it was sold, then if the County changes it he has got to
go along with the County changes. I don't know if we'd want
to do that or riot, but I'm just saying here's another wrinkle.
,7.)
T. Robinson - I wouldn 1 t go into santething like that because usually they
are grandfathered in, aren't they?
G. Wood - Well, I think that's exactly why he's saying to put it in there
so you override that..
C. Haynes - I'm not pushing the idea now, I'm just throwing it out for
something to think about,
T. Robinson - ?dell, if you put. it in like that and if he objected to it,
you could coma back down to the 200'. I would xeally feel
much more comfortable with the 200' _stated then that way....
C. Haynes - I can't see how anybody would ever wi:n a, lawsuit with that 200.
Thev oculd not :Like it and be unhappy but what are they going
G. Wood - You me n, like adding the .stipulation?
C. Haynes - Yeh, The guy owns the land and he's the one to agree to it
and the plot pl�i isn't. an issue, he can locate his house
and put a driveway some place. It would be more
comforting to heax Jack kinda buy into that at this point.
G. Vood - I think his porzition the othex day was that you paid your money,
take your choice �a six of one ?calf dozen of anothear,
T. Robinson -- You didn't go into this extra
G. Wood No, we didn't.
C. Haynes � When does Jack come back?
T. Robinson - Me's down enjoying himself -- about three weeks.
C. Haynes - Are you under some pressuxe to make some kind of a decision
some way or another?
G. blood - I feel I a.m. I'm over my deadline, As a matter of fact'. I had
every intention of getting it done within the deadline and calls
from Lyle and one thing ox aLnother, IKnew that I had to. write up
some kind of a ,justification for. whatever I did. and I gust never
get that writing done So it never got done.
C. 'Pierson - Gary, didn't you tell Bob Knapp and I that day that you issued
the permit?
didn't intend to .tell you that. What had . transpired was that
P7erl.e had called rye the day before and I had Bald, "Hell, 1 "rn
going tc issue it ". And she said we're going to be gone to
Florida......Thatt's the way it stands.
C. Pierson - Bob Knapp has had contact frith David 0fner. David offer has
come into my office looking for the building permit application
and the building pe2nrilt and I said I didn't have it and that
I haven't seen-It. And, I haven't seen any of the paper work
to date. I don%'t uant to look lake the'fool. It's not in my
office and it hasn't been in my office, David 4fner has
evexy right to see i t -- you issued zt and it should be there.
I'M sure he's coming back looking for it.
G. Wood - It will be there. Mattex` of fact, I will call him, 'There's no
reaeon he can't see it. Nobodys trying to kee 'P' him from seeing it.
C. Pierson - I r#st want to be on xecord that it's r; in n my file in my
office and that it ha n't been.
T. Robinson - Thanks.
Gary Wood, Code �hforcement officer, requested that his-new employee, George
Senter,'fabe put on his staff as a Building Inspector, Gary proposes to split
his sal=y between the two, 'phis would give George official Town status to
sign documents.. Garr said that George was not now qualified to be a building
inspector but he is paying for George's certification. Boaxd requested that
Town Clerk contact County Personnel Department to see if we could have two
Positions. Gaz,j also reported that 200 'anal some Odd letters, have gone out
relating to unlicensed vehicles. Gary is looking fcr some auidanoe from the
Board regarding unlicensed vehicles. Cade saYs no unlicen6ed vehicles are
allow,
t'h'ere being no further business, Mr. VanBensohoten moved to adjct3rn nesting,
seconded by Mr, Sovocool, at 11:05 P.M. Unanimous,
Colleen D. Pierson
Town Clerk