HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA Minutes 2004-07-19 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
MONDAY, JULY 19, 2004
7:00 P.M.
PRESENT: Kirk Sigel, Chairperson; Harry Ellsworth, Board Member; Ronald
Krantz, Board Member; James Niefer, Board Member; Dick Matthews, Board
Member; Andy Frost, Director of Building/Zoning (7:30); John Barney, Attorney
for the Town (7:15); Michael Smith, Environmental Planner.
EXCUSED: None
OTHERS: Randie Blooding, 121 Park Lane; Kathy Hansen, 121 Park Lane; Joe
Francis, 865 Taughannock Blvd.; Patricia Francis, 865 Taughannock Blvd.; Kevin
Allyn, Crown Construction; Susan Miller, 1036 East Shore Drive; Nanette
Peterson.
Chairperson Sigel called the meeting to order at 7:04 p.m.
APPEAL of Joe and Patty Francis, Appellants, requesting variances from
the requirements of Article VII, Section 707 and Article XXV, Section 2502 of
the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance to enlarge a non-conforming
residential structure with a north side yard building setback of 12 ± feet (15
feet required) located at 865 Taughannock Boulevard, Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No. 25-2-27, Lakefront Residential Zone.
Chairperson Sigel — Good evening, welcome to the July meeting of the Town of
Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals. We have three appeals this evening, that of Joe
and Patty Francis, the appeal of Randie Blooding, and the appeal of Susan
Miller. The first appeal is of Joe and Patty Francis. This is an adjourned appeal
from last month's meeting; they are requesting a variance from the requirements
of Article VII, Section 707 and Article XXV, Section 2502 of the Town of Ithaca
Zoning Ordinance to enlarge a non-conforming residential structure with a north
side yard building setback of 12 ±feet (15 feet required) located at 865
Taughannock Boulevard, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 25-2-27, Lakefront
Residential Zone. Hello.
Joe Francis — Hi.
Patricia Francis — Hi.
Chairperson Sigel — If you could just state your name and address again for the
record.
Patricia Francis — Patricia Francis, 865 Taughannock Boulevard.
Joe Francis — Joe Francis, 865 Taughannock Boulevard.
1
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel — Thank you. And I believe what we had decided last time
was that all you needed was a variance for the deficient setback, and then the
other work you wanted to do, because that doesn't encroach on any of the
setbacks, would then be legal without any further variance or special approvals.
Mr. Francis - Yes.
Chairperson Sigel — Is that the way you remember it, Mike?
Mr. Smith - I believe so, yeah.
Chairperson Sigel — So for that we shouldn't need the SEAR?
Mr. Smith - Right, it's turned into an area variance.
Chairperson Sigel — OK, any discussion, comments?
No's from the board.
Chairperson Sigel — OK, we'll open the public hearing. Does anyone wish to
speak on this appeal?
Chairperson Sigel opens the public hearing at 7:05 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel — If not, we'll close the public hearing.
Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 7:06 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel — I will move to grant the appeal of Joe and Patty Francis,
requesting a variance from the requirements of Article VII, Section 707 of the
Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance to permit the existence of a non-conforming
residential structure with a north side yard building setback of no less than feet
(15 feet required) located at 865 Taughannock Boulevard, Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No. 25.-2-27, Lakefront Residential Zone, with the finding that the
requirements for an area variance have been satisfied.
Mr. Matthews - Can we make that 11 feet?
Chairperson Sigel — It actually says 12.4 on the drawings, so I figured 12 should
be safe.
Mr. Matthews - Oh, OK.
2
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mrs. Francis - Interestingly, when we built the house 12 years ago, we thought
we had the right setback, and no one caught it. So somehow the house was
built.
Chairperson Sigel — Those stakes move in the middle of the night.
Laughter.
Mrs. Francis -Well, Al Fulkerson commented that that has become a fairly
common problem.
Chairperson Sigel —Where the lots are narrow like that, it's tough, when you're
already close. OK, a second for the motion?
Mr. Ellsworth - Second.
Chairperson Sigel —All in favor?
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 035: Joe and Patty Francis, 865 Taughannock
Boulevard, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 25-2-27, Lakefront Residential
Zone.
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Harry Ellsworth.
RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal Joe and Patty Francis, Appellants,
requesting a variance from the requirements of Article VII, Section 707 of the
Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance to permit the existence of a non-conforming
residential structure with a north side yard building setback of no less than 12
feet (15 feet required) located at 865 Taughannock Boulevard, Town of Ithaca
Tax Parcel No. 25.-2-27, Lakefront Residential Zone.
FINDINGS:
The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied.
CONDITIONS:
None.
The vote on the a MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
NAYS: NONE
3
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Sigel — OK, thank you, sorry you had to come back.
Mr. Francis - Thank you very much.
APPEAL of Randie Blooding, Appellant, requesting a variance from the
requirements of Article IX, Section 906 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning
Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a garage attached to a residential
structure resulting in a front yard setback of 10 + feet (25 feet required) at
121 Park Lane, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 56-3-13.6, Medium Density
Residential Zone.
Chairperson Sigel — Hi. Could you please state your name and address for the
record?
Kathy Hansen — My name is Kathy Hansen.
Randie Blooding — My name is Randie Blooding, 121 Park Lane.
Chairperson Sigel — OK, and just give us a brief summary of what you are
planning to do and why you need a variance for it.
Mr. Blooding - OK. We've been in the house for 13 years. Many things were
done very well when that house was built; large rooms was not one of them. For
some time, we've felt like we've needed a large space that we could use for
entertaining family, friends, that sort of thing. And in trying to do that, looking at
the different possibilities, it strikes us that this is the easiest way for us to do this.
We would like to erect a new garage in front of what is essentially, currently the
garage and then use that garage space for living space. In addition, a few years
ago when they approved the drainage in our neighborhood, since that time we've
been flooded a couple of times. It hasn't gotten into the house yet, but each time
it floods, it gets closer to the house. This would be an opportunity for us to do a
little re-grading, and some of the fellows from the fire department said they would
be able to help us out to figure out a good way to alleviate some of those
problems.
Chairperson Sigel — I assume you have considered, I think you state in your
packet that you had considered adding a second floor to at least part of the
house.
4
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Blooding -We did consider that. The house is a ranch style, and people told
us it would not fit with the architecture at all. Our neighbor on one side actually
has added a second floor to some of his and it fit very nicely for his house, yes.
Chairperson Sigel — I guess you don't, I assume you don't need as much space
as say an entire second floor would give you and sort of turn your house into a
two story, a complete two story.
Mr. Blooding - that would be beyond our means, frankly.
Chairperson Sigel — OK. So then this is the only practical way for you to add this
amount of space?
Mr. Blooding - Right, yeah.
Chairperson Sigel —Any questions?
Mr. Niefer- How do you envision solving this runoff problem you've encountered
where the gravel is washed onto the front? I drove by your property, and I also
looked at pictures, and I know what you're talking about, but then if you extend
up straight towards the road from the existing garage 24 feet, it's still if you keep
the same grade as the garage floor level and extend that out, how is the water
going to get around that area, it almost looks as though it's going to be a situation
where it's even going to be... catch more water, rather than less.
Mr. Blooding - It's my understanding that currently, the garage level can in fact be
higher than what the garage is now?
Mr. Niefer - Yes.
Mr. Blooding - So, we'll re-grade so that that sits higher, and we should have less
of that. We'll also re-grade some of the front yard so it re-directs water in a better
way. The major problem for us at this point, if you drove by the house, I actually
think I saw you, is that it comes into the driveway and then it drains back to the
north and down the north side of the house. Each time it does that, it dumps silt
in the yard, and the water gets closer to going into the basement of the house.
So one of the things that we will do is to put a drain across the new driveway so
that it will direct much of that water on through. We'll also probably have to drain
that, I mean I'll, I'll depend on some of the highway people for this. They also tell
me that they continue to work on getting that problem fixed from up the hill, that
they've had a significant problem with that, and hopefully that will be better.
Mr. Niefer - Are there any other houses in the neighborhood that have reduced
setbacks for their garage, as you're proposing to do?
Mr. Blooding - I can't tell you that, I don't know.
5
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel — I didn't notice any in particular, but I wasn't looking...
Mr. Niefer - To some extent it does somewhat change the character of the
neighborhood, because everything in the immediate vicinity of the house, they all
have what appears to be a legal setback and no encroachments out towards the
road, so it just appeared to me that this would be a first for that general
neighborhood, all the houses as they were originally built appeared to be the
prescribed distance back from the highway, so this would be a first.
Chairperson Sigel — I suspect you're... from what I saw, I think you're probably
right. The setbacks seem to be probably close to the minimum, but still legal,
because especially along the part where there are it drops off pretty quickly, so
people did seem to be getting their houses as close as possible to the 25 foot
setback line. I would point out that there is a provision, I'm not sure that they
would meet the strict definition of it, but there is a provision in the zoning that
allows a garage as close as five feet from the street, or from the property line, in
the case where you have a steep slope going back from the street. And it has to
be an eight percent grade starting at the street, I'm not sure if they would meet
that or not.
Mr. Niefer - This is fairly level.
Chairperson Sigel —Well, they've made the front yard fairly level, but actually just
to the side of the driveway, it does drop off right from the street, and then
obviously towards the back it gets even steeper.
Mr. Blooding - Yeah, trying to add onto the back of the house would be a
nightmare because it drops off significantly. You have a picture, one of the
pictures that you have is essentially from the back line. Now, it shows the back
of the house, yeah, the bottom one of those, and you can see that that's, it drops
off significantly.
Chairperson Sigel — Yeah, it would be tough to drive around back.
Mr. Blooding - Oh yeah.
Mr. Krantz - This garage, proposed garage in the front, you've got room enough
to park the car in front of it, and still be off the edge of the road?
Mr. Blooding - Yes, yes you do sir.
Mr. Matthews - I drove by there and looked at it to, and that was one of my
concerns. I don't know what the distance is from the end of the garage and to
the road, but I believe an average car is around 10 or 12 feet long, and this
seems to be butting right up against the road if a car is parked there, and when 1
6
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
drove by there were cars in front of the garage, they weren't in the garage, so I
had to assume that when people pull in, they can't drive in too quickly, because
they will quickly come up against the garage doors, so that will be an impediment
to the flow of traffic. But I believe that this easement will cause a car to be
almost parking right into the road.
Chairperson Sigel — Do you know how much driveway you'll have remaining from
the front of the proposed garage.
Mr. Matthews - To the edge of the road.
Mr. Blooding - Well, to the edge of the street line, will be only 10 feet, but a
significant part of that is my driveway which will be...
Chairperson Sigel — Your property boundary is considerably back from the road.
Mr. Blooding - Yes it is.
Chairperson Sigel —And then your driveway continues beyond that to the road.
Mr. Blooding - Yes.
Chairperson Sigel — So do you know what that total distance is?
Mr. Blooding - I don't know. I can tell you we have parked three cars in line from
the current garage to the street without any trouble, so at least I know that. Let
me see...
Pause.
Mr. Smith - You can get a little bit of perspective from the one picture labeled
southwest view of Park Lane, the bottom picture, and the plot plan, you can see
the one jog in the driveway, where the planter and light pole is, you can see that
there's still quite a distance on the pavement there in the picture for a vehicle to
park, which would be in front of the garage.
Mr. Blooding - Actually if you see that light pole, in front of that light pole towards
the street is a parking space for my tenant and we've never had a problem there,
they're able to park, and the new garage will come to the near side, to the near
side of that planter. It will not come out to the street side of the planter.
Mr. Krantz - So your tenant's always going to be parked in front of the garage?
Mr. Blooding - No, my tenant will continue to park in front of that planter that you
see there with that light pole.
7
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel — How far back from where the driveway comes out for that
extra spot, how far back would the edge of the garage be?
Mr. Blooding - Roughly, almost to where that planter begins.
Chairperson Sigel — OK. To the house side of the planter.
Mr. Blooding - To the house side, certainly.
Chairperson Sigel — It'll be about to there.
Mr. Blooding - Yes.
Chairperson Sigel — But not further than that?
Mr. Blooding - Not further than that, no.
Ms. Hansen - It might be less.
Mr. Blooding - Yeah, it may be a little bit less, but certainly not further.
Chairperson Sigel — It does appear to me at least that if you look at this picture
here, southwest view, as Mike pointed out, the garage will not come out as far as
what they have as a dedicated parking spot, that they use right now as a parking
spot that bumps out from the main driveway. So if there's room for a car there,
there would be room for a car in front of the garage as well. I understand your
point that you don't have a lot of room to slow down, I mean you have to pull in...
Mr. Matthews - I don't think there's enough room for the car to get off the street.
Mr. Ellsworth - Well, we can make that part of the acceptance, that they've got to
be off the street, otherwise the plow's going to be taking off the back end of the
tenant's car.
Mr. Matthews - That's their problem.
Laughter.
Mr. Matthews - That's the plow driver's problem when he hits it.
Chairperson Sigel —Well you can see in the picture, there's a spot, you know, for
a car on this...
Mr. Matthews - Well, if you take, and this is very unscientific Kirk, if you were to
take the automobile that's sitting there now and that car is approximately 12 or 14
feet long, and the extension for this garage is 24 feet long. If you were to take
8
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
that picture of that automobile and extend it back another 12 or 14 feet, that
would be the edge of the garage.
Chairperson Sigel — No, that vehicle is more than 12 or 14 feet.
Mr. Matthews - I'm giving them a break, maybe it's 16, if it's 16, it's even worse,
my example is even worse. That would bring your garage door out closer to the
street. Which then, take that around and put that on the edge of the garage door,
and it is in the road. I don't know that, this is a very poor example, someone
would have to take a tape measure and do that.
Chairperson Sigel — Yeah. From what they've described, the garage doesn't
come out that much further than that car.
Mr. Blooding - That's correct.
Mr. Matthews - The garage?
Chairperson Sigel — The new garage...
Mr. Matthews - The garage will come out approximately twice the length of that
car.
Chairperson Sigel — No, no.
Mr. Matthews - 26 feet, right? 24 feet.
Ms. Hansen - No, we're actually looking for 22.6.
Chairperson Sigel — 22... OK, and this car is, I'm guessing 18 feet which is
mostly, most of the way, and obviously the car could pull up further, so...
Mr. Niefer -Another problem is there's a mailbox right in that corner, and that's
set back about a foot and a half or two off the road anyhow, and it's right on the
edge of the driveway, so when the mailman comes, particularly in the snow and
ice, that's going to take a little maneuvering to get the mail in the box and not hit
the car.
Mr. Blooding - If you look at the space ... do you all see the space that I have
dedicated for the tenant? The parking space? Because that's been there as
long as we've been there, for 13 years, and we've never had a problem with the
snowplow, and my current tenant has a pickup truck and yes, that's very good,
and that has not been a problem. In the 14 years we've been here, other than
having the snowplow leave the berm that we all have to go out and shovel off, it's
not been a problem.
9
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel — I think, you know, it's a good illustration, just look on the
sheet marked plot plan which just shows how far the, it just shows the garage
coming out not as far as where that tenant space is.
Mr. Matthews -Are you looking at the site plan?
Chairperson Sigel — Yeah.
Mr. Matthews - OK, and the proposed garage.
Chairperson Sigel — Yeah.
Mr. Matthews - How far is the end, the driveway, the door of that proposed
garage from the road? That's the question here, and if someone could give me
that answer, I'd be more comfortable.
Chairperson Sigel —Well, but you can see where they have the... you can see
where the spot that they have for their tenant is... no on that same drawing,
where the driveway comes out.
Comments Inaudible
Mr. Ellsworth - Just make it a condition of acceptance.
Chairperson Sigel — No, on this sheet marked plot plan, the road is marked, the
edge of the road. Well, actually I'm not sure if that's centerline or not.
Mr. Blooding -Actually if you look at this particular, it's the one that says "plot
plan", it's the one that has highlights — a couple of the dimensions are
highlighted. If you look there is says "water valve" on that dotted line. The
mailbox is right next to that water valve. So that's where the edge of the street is.
Mr. Matthews -Where the water valve is, that's the edge of the street?
Mr. Blooding - Yeah, well, the mailbox is set there so that's where...
Mr. Matthews -What's throwing me off sir is that to the right of that you have a
street line with an arrow— to the very right of your site plan — on the very right
hand side, you have a 10-foot utility easement, and below that you have the
street line. So the street line, if that line continues running, that's the edge of the
street, correct?
Mr. Blooding - You mean where it says utility easement?
Mr. Matthews - Yes.
10
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Blooding - Oh, no, no, no. That's the utility easement is there, and there's a
water service there, but that's almost in the middle of my yard. If you look next to
the driveway, there's a thing that says water valve...
Mr. Matthews - That's the edge of the street?
Mr. Blooding - My mailbox is right beside that, yeah.
Mr. Matthews - OK, Mr. Ellsworth, how can we put that into the approval that
there be enough room for the automobile.
Mr. Ellsworth - Well, you just make it a condition of the approval.
Chairperson Sigel — Right.
Mr. Matthews - How do we do that? I'm a neophyte.
Mr. Ellsworth - Well, whoever's going to accept the appeal, just works that in as
part of the acceptance. Just state that that's one of the conditions of the
acceptance.
Mr. Matthews - That would be sufficient?
Mr. Ellsworth - Right.
Mr. Matthews - And we hope that automobiles don't grow longer?
Mr. Krantz - This is getting a little complicated. Basically you just have a 10-foot
setback, plus or minus, and that's really clearly not adequate to have a car in
there.
Chairperson Sigel — Right. Well, John was just making the point that... John
Barney, yeah... that they're parking beyond the boundary of their property
basically at their own risk. I mean, the town could exercise it's right to do
something with that...
Mr. Krantz - Oh, OK, so we don't have to do a condition.
Mr. Barney - Well, the town owns property like anyone else does, and the town
owns that road. Looking at the survey Mr. Stock put into, it's pretty clear that the
town line, or the road line, the street line is just about encompasses all of that
tenant parking. So, granting a variance, or I guess if you choose to do so, and
I'm not going to take a position one way or the other, you should do it knowing
that there is no legal right to park anything beyond the street line.
Chairperson Sigel —Which, clearly 10 feet wouldn't be enough.
11
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Barney - Unless you park...
Mr. Krantz - Your tenant's got to park, you've got to extend his spot into your yard
a little ways.
Chairperson Sigel — Yeah, so, you are right I would say Dick, that they don't have
the right, save on their property, to park a car in front of the garage, but they
have been using what is the town right-of way for the road —you know their
driveway comes out over the right-of-way to the street, and they have been using
that to park in, and that... the way it stands now, I think there is enough room to
park a car in front of the new garage, but it's not all on their property, certainly.
So, the question is, how do you feel about that situation, and whether you would
support that or not.
Mr. Matthews - I don't want a car parking on the street.
Chairperson Sigel —Well, and their...
Mr. Matthews - I don't think that's correct, and I don't think the plow driver should
have to worry about that.
Chairperson Sigel —And I certainly agree with you there, I mean, they're not, a
car parking in front of this proposed garage would not be in what is currently the
street, but it would definitely be in the street right-of-way, which is, I mean no one
drives on that part because it is dirt. I mean, it's a dirt shoulder.
Mr. Matthews - You say it's not hanging over the pavement?
Chairperson Sigel — No, I mean from what I can tell, a car parked in front of the
driveway would not hang over to the pavement, the current pavement of the
street, yeah. That doesn't mean the town couldn't somehow change that
although it would seem somewhat unlikely.
Mr. Matthews - Yeah, you're saying current pavement, are you suggesting that if
they widen that street to the limits of what the town wants, then their garage door
becomes part of the street?
Chairperson Sigel — No their garage door is definitely within their property, and
then they have an extra ten feet, but that extra ten feet is all they're guaranteed,
and that's not enough room for a car, unless maybe they parallel park it.
Mr. Matthews - But if at some future date they decide to widen the road, then
there's a bigger problem?
Chairperson Sigel — Yeah, I don't know, does that ever happen, John?
12
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Barney - Yeah, it happens, but it's not likely to happen on Park Lane, this is a
residential neighborhood with a road...
Chairperson Sigel — The road is self-sufficient.
Mr. Barney - We're not likely to have a route 81 go through here.
Laughter.
Mr. Barney - But, yeah I think you're right, the garage, it's unlikely the garage is
going to be located on what is town road. I mean I can't see the town... want to
widen our street right-of-way by ten or twenty feet, what they might do is some
activity within their existing right of way which might absorb part of the asphalt
drive that's now being used for parking purposes.
Chairperson Sigel — So what they could end up with is just a garage, you know,
right off of the street.
Mr. Barney - Right.
Chairperson Sigel —Which you do see in some situations...where basically you
have to, when your car leaves the street, you have to pull into the garage to get it
off the street. So the worst case, that's what they could end up with.
Mr. Niefer - I guess I wish it wasn't coming so close to the street is all. I guess
the safety feature concerns me, and what could be an imposition on the
neighborhood structures, on how it looks to the rest of the structures. They all
have a setback which appears to be well within, exceeding their minimums, and
we suddenly have this house with the garage butting closer to the street.
Mr. Matthews - It doesn't seem to bother the neighbors, because they signed a
piece of paper saying they were OK with it.
Chairperson Sigel —Would it be feasible at all for you to, say, have the new
garage use, say, five feet of the existing garage for it's depth? So take five feet
away from what you planned for new interior living space, and then, obviously,
have the new garage come out five feet less.
Mr. Blooding - If that's necessary, certainly we may have to do that, yeah.
Chairperson Sigel — So, certainly they could just use less of their current garage
for living space.
Mr. Niefer -Well, that would be a nice compromise.
13
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel —And how deep is the house? It looks like, from the scale it's
a little more than 24 feet?
Mr. Blooding - Yes.
Chairperson Sigel — Maybe close to 30.
Ms. Hansen - On one side.
Chairperson Sigel — on, on, I'm talking about at the current garage.
Mr. Blooding - Yeah, it's 24 at the garage.
Chairperson Sigel — 24 deep.
Mr. Barney - I'm sorry I missed that. The new garage is going to be 24 feet
deep?
Chairperson Sigel — No the current garage is.
Mr. Barney - Oh, the current garage is. And the new one is going to be 22.6 feet
deep?
Chairperson Sigel —We're considering the possibility of encroaching on the new
living space, to get the new garage back from the road a little more. What is
your... this is going to be like a family room?
Mr. Blooding - Yes.
Chairperson Sigel — Umm, let's open the public hearing, that's a good idea. If
there are no other questions or comments right now, we'll open the public
hearing, if anyone wishes to speak on this case.
Chairperson Sigel opens the public hearing at 7:32 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel — If not, we'll close the public hearing.
Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 7:33 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel — I guess I could just poll you guys and see. Who is in support
of the proposal as is, coming out as proposed? And who is in support of say,
pushing it back 5 feet?
The board members voice support for pushing it back five feet.
14
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel — OK, I mean, is that something that is still going to serve your
needs? Are you interested in an approval with that condition?
Mr. Blooding - Yes, I mean we'll have to map it out and see, but I think that
probably is doable for us.
Chairperson Sigel — OK.
Mr. Frost - Can you repeat that, I didn't quite pick up the condition that you were
talking about.
Chairperson Sigel — having the new garage come out five feet less, and then
obviously they could decide however they need the garage to be to take some
space out of what was going to be new living space.
Ms. Hansen - Was the five feet chosen somewhat arbitrarily, I mean is that
negotiable at all, or is it...
Mr. Ellsworth - It won't be after...
Ms. Hansen - I know, that's why I asked that.
Mr. Frost - So if you have a concern, maybe you want to voice that before they
get too...
Chairperson Sigel — I mean if it was going to — if a foot or something was going to
make a big difference somehow, you could say why. I mean I was just, the
required setback is 25 feet, and you were proposing just 10, so I proposed five
more, so at least it got you a third of the way further into compliance. You could
probably state it in a way that made your case sound better, than the way I took
it.
Mr. Frost - How significant of a drop in the ground slope do you have at the rear
of the house?
Mr. Blooding - Excuse me?
Mr. Frost - How significant of a slope do you have at the back of the house.
Mr. Blooding - It is significant. If you look at the picture on page "E" that you
have, you'll see a picture taken from the back line of the lot.
Chairperson Sigel — Yeah, I was wondering about that too, Andy.
Mr. Frost - Because the only thing, and maybe it's worth discussion, is your
ability to do any additional space at the rear is hampered by that...
15
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Ellsworth - I've been hiking up behind there, you're just down from the water
tank. They all drop off.
Comments Inaudible.
Mr. Blooding - The town park is just above us, my neighbor bought his and I
bought mine, so that looks like it'll lie...
Mr. Ellsworth - To answer your question, it doesn't appear that if you need more
than five feet, this is going to get approved. Vis a Vis the polling that Kirk did of
the board.
Chairperson Sigel — I wasn't sure, Andy, if they were going to meet this... slope,
it says 8% directly from the street line, it's not really not that steep right at the
street line.
Mr. Frost - No it's not, but it does lend itself to the ability to encroach towards the
front of the yard, since the slope is serious at the rear.
Chairperson Sigel —Well, it's a mitigating factor, yeah. OK, Mike, any comments.
Mr. Smith - No. There is a SEAR in here, but it is an area variance, so it was just
there in case anything changed.
Mr. Ellsworth - The five feet helps his acceptance of this, because he points
out...
Mr. Frost - But the SEAR wouldn't apply anyhow, I mean it wouldn't even be
necessary, he's done it just in case, but...
Mr. Ellsworth - OK, right.
Mr. Frost - So are you asking the board to consider not as much as five-foot
back? I don't know if you'd responded to that.
Mr. Blooding -Well, it looks as though five feet, it's either five feet or nothing for
us, so we'll be very happy with five feet, thank you.
Ms. Hansen -Any foot is appreciated.
Chairperson Sigel — OK I will move to grant the appeal of Randie Blooding,
requesting a variance from the requirements of Article IX, Section 906 of the
Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a garage attached
to a residential structure resulting in a front yard setback of no less than...Now,
do you have an exact number for what it was going to be?
16
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Barney - Ten feet.
Mr. Frost - It would have been 10 foot
Chairperson Sigel — 10 feet exactly?
Mr. Frost - Yes, and I'm pretty comfortable, Randie and I did talk about this in
detail prior to the meeting, so I'm pretty sure he's got the 10 foot as a minimum.
Chairperson Sigel - OK. ...Resulting in a front yard setback of not less than 15
feet (25 feet required) at 121 Park Lane, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 56.-3-
13.6, Medium Density Residential Zone. With the finding that the requirements
of an area variance have been satisfied and also with the finding that because
the applicant's yard is so steep in the rear it would be very difficult for them to
add a garage around the back in the rear, and therefore the need for the variance
in the front, to put the garage in the front. Second?
Mr. Ellsworth - I'll second it.
Chairperson Sigel —All in favor?
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 036: Randie Blooding, 121 Park Lane, Town of
Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 56-3-13.6, Medium Density Residential Zone.
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Harry Ellsworth.
RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal Randie Blooding, Appellant,
requesting a variance from the requirements of Article IX, Section 906 of the
Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a garage attached
to a residential structure resulting in a front yard setback of not less than 15 feet
(25 feet required) at 121 Park Lane, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 56.-3-13.6,
Medium Density Residential Zone.
FINDINGS:
1. The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied.
2. Because the applicant's yard is so steep in the rear it would be very difficult to
add a garage in the rear, and therefore there is a need for a variance to allow the
garage in the front yard setback.
CONDITIONS:
17
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
None.
The vote on the a MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
NAYS: NONE
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Sigel — Thank you.
Mr. Blooding - Thank you.
APPEAL of Susan Miller, Appellant, requesting an interpretation of or a
variance from the requirements of Article XXV, Sections 2502 and 2505 of
the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to add a second floor addition to a
non-conforming building and lot located at 1036 East Shore Drive, Town of
Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 19-2-13, Lakefront Residential Zone. The proposed
addition does not increase the building's footprint and will not further
encroach laterally towards an existing deficient side yard building setback;
however, the building's mass will increase upwards but will not exceed
building height limitations.
Chairperson Sigel — Hi. Please give us your name and address for the record.
Susan Miller— Susan Miller, 1036 East Shore Drive.
Kevin Allyn —And I'm Kevin Allyn from Crown Construction.
Chairperson Sigel — Can you give us a brief overview of what you're doing?
Ms. Miller- Half of the upstairs of the house now has a bedroom, so the other
half is only one story, and we propose to make that the second story as well, and
the entire downstairs footprint will become two stories.
Chairperson Sigel —And this is in the rear of the house?
Ms. Miller - The rear of the house, yeah, because it's just one bedroom at this
point with a tiny office and that one bedroom is actually separated off from the
downstairs; the stairs just go directly into the bedroom. So it's really only big
enough for one person the way it is now.
18
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Frost - The footprint of the house is not changing, and with the new zoning
ordinance, there was a little bit of discussion between John Barney and myself as
to whether they needed to appear before the zoning board and that the footprint
does not make the building any more non-conforming, but the addition of the
second floor, we felt that increases the mass of the building, so rather than have
a one story that's too close to a property we now have a two story that's too close
to a property line, and therefore we brought it to the board for an interpretation
and or a variance. Now, our new zoning ordinance, unlike the old zoning
ordinance allows a person to make changes to their building if it doesn't make
the building more non-conforming, or doesn't increase the non-conformity, and
the question, not to be repetitious here, was whether going up meant that it was
increasing the non-conformity, with the footprint not being changed. If you recall,
at last month's meeting, we had a case that didn't have to be heard because it
was concluded that they weren't making more of a non-conformity with the
addition to the building. So, I don't know if that makes sense to everybody.
Mr. Matthews - So, the question is that we're discussing a non-conforming
addition.
Mr. Barney - The building presently is non-conforming, because it is too close to
the side yard.
Mr. Matthews - And if it was conforming, there would be no question, it would not
have to be considered.
Mr. Barney - Well, and also, more to the point, even if it's non-conforming, if they
were going to build something, let's say on the other side where there was no
problem with the side yard, they could do that without needing to obtain a
variance. What is creating the issue here is that the property, I have to go back
and look at the precise figures, but let's say it's 10 feet away from the side line
when you're supposed to have fifteen feet, and it's a one story, the question is
when you put a second story that's also 10 feet away , as opposed to 15 feet, are
you increasing the non-conformity. And this was enough of a question that it
actually drove me to look at some cases and some other things, and we found a
case that sort of said, it's really up to board of zoning appeals how you interpret
your own ordinance as to whether that's an increase in non-conformity. My
feeling is like Andy's, that it is increasing the mass, the setback is really designed
to give people air and light and space from the property next door, and it's one
thing to have a 14 story building that's 10 feet away from you as opposed to
having a single story building, so I personally feel that going up is increasing the
non-conformity in that circumstance, but you folks are ultimately the arbiter of
that issue.
Mr. Matthews - But they already have a second floor.
19
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Frost - Well, they do in part of the building.
Mr. Matthews - So, now they're just making this second floor bigger?
Ms. Miller- That's correct.
Mr. Barney - The second floor at present is conforming, in the sense that the
existing second story is more than 10 feet away or whatever the dimension is.
Mr. Frost - And it's sort of grandfathered in, the fact that it's existed there for so
long allows it to remain there. Under our old zoning ordinance, which you really
weren't a board member for, any change someone made to a building, no matter
what side of the building it was, they would need to come to the zoning board.
We've kind of loosened that restriction to say if what you're doing is not going to
create an additional problem, you can do it without coming to the zoning board.
Usually that means you're changing the footprint.
Mr. Elsworth - What we frequently get into with lakefront property is the
neighbor's view, you're constructing the neighbor's view, which their paying taxes
to have a view. Although I don't see many people here.
Ms. Miller- There's no obstructing in this case.
Mr. Elsworth - Well, we have a new person on the board, I'm trying to explain to
him what happens generally with these lake front properties, where you have
fifty-foot wide lot, less, so on and so forth. That's what we hear a lot of. We may
not hear it tonight, but that's usually what we hear. What I'm hearing is, this is a
borderline case.
Mr. Frost - Well, it's a matter of your interpretation, and the way the notice is
written, either you're going to make an interpretation that it is extending the non-
conforming use such that they need the variance which this is advertised for, the
case is advertised for the variance. Or you're going to make an interpretation
that they don't need it with the addition.
Mr. Matthews - Harry and I are apparently using the same question book. In the
previous case that we had here, I thought it was interesting that the people
asking for the variance had the neighbor's agreement that the change wouldn't
bother them. In this particular case, the instant case, I don't see anyone here.
Mr. Frost - Right, they do get notified though.
Mr. Matthews - There's nothing saying they oppose or confirm, so I guess I have
to ask the folks who are asking for the appeal, how is this going to impress the
neighbors, and their view of the lake and so forth?
20
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Ms. Miller- Umm, there's no window on the neighbor who's just 10 feet away,
there's no... their roof just comes down, you know, it's just a vertical roof coming
down, there's no window that looks out onto that part of that second, that space
above the first floor of my house, so when I put the second floor on just the back
half of the house there, there's nothing in their house that, there's no window
there that looks onto that.
Mr. Matthews - And it won't change their impression of being next to a, if I can
use the term ill advisedly, a skyscraper.
Ms. Miller- No, because there's already a large walk-in closet that comes up
firstly over that space, so it's just making it a little bigger than what's already
sticking out at the back end of the house.
Mr. Matthews - You know, although in my opinion at least, I think this obviously
should be granted, I think it would be a very bad precedent to not require a
variance for something like this.
Chairperson Sigel — I agree. I mean, my opinion is that I see adding any house
within the required setback to be analogous to adding first floor space, you know,
adding new house, new footprint within the setback— you're adding house within
the required setback. So that's not the same as expanding a house, you know,
on the other side, say.
Mr. Ellsworth - So, I would feel she should have a variance...
Chairperson Sigel — I agree.
Mr. Ellsworth - and I certainly think at this point I would want to grant it.
Chairperson Sigel — I agree to that as well. Are there any other questions before
we have the public hearing? OK, we'll open the public hearing, anyone wish to
speak?
Chairperson Sigel opens the public hearing at 7:47 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel — If not, we'll close the public hearing.
Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 7:48 p.m.
Mr. Frost - Your second floor addition, that's on the north side going up the lake
or is it on the south side?
Ms. Miller- On the east. The house sort of goes east to west and it's on the east
end of the...
21
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Barney - Towards the road.
Ms. Miller- Towards the road.
Chairperson Sigel — So it's just the people driving by in the rear...
Mr. Barney - What's the side yard requirement here, Andy?
Mr. Frost - Uh, 15 feet.
Mr. Barney - So it actually, it may in fact, LI can't really tell if it's 15 feet on the
south side or not. It's clearly 6.4 feet on the north side.
Comments inaudible.
Chairperson Sigel — It looks like you might get close to 15 in the rear on the south
side. I would say definitely under 15 towards the lakeside on the south side.
Mr. Barney - Under 15?
Chairperson Sigel — Yeah, I would say under 15.
Comments inaudible.
Chairperson Sigel — I mean, are you concerned about specifying the setback on
that side as well?
Mr. Barney - Well, I think we want to make...
Chairperson Sigel — or would it be sufficient to just say, not extending over the
current footprint.
Mr. Barney - We might get away with that. It would be nice, though, because the
current footprint however...
Chairperson Sigel — Could somehow change?
Mr. Barney - yeah, not clearly memorialized. It might be nicer to say no closer
than x number of feet, or the current footprint, whichever is less...
Chairperson Sigel — Yeah, and because it's on an angle, too, it's going to be hard
to specify a number that is really ... How far, do you know approximately how far,
I guess either from the east or the west side of the house, the addition starts? Is
it about halfway back?
22
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Ms. Miller- Oh yeah, if you look at the photograph and you see the one where
the back of the car is parked, and you see where it's already one story and then
there's the small part coming back towards the car, that's the big walk-in closet...
that would just be increased so that it comes up to the same level as the part in
front. And if you look at this one down here in the corner, you see how it's
currently constructed? It'll just come up to this same height as the peak in front.
It won't come back any further than the end of the house, as it currently exists.
Chairperson Sigel — Right, and only about half the house now has a second floor.
Mr. Allyn - That's right.
Ms. Miller -Well, it comes back to within eight feet of the back door, so it's only
one story per 8 feet, and then it goes up to that closet till it meets the second
floor front part. So actually that part here that's already raised above the first
floor would come 8 feet to the east further back.
Chairperson Sigel — OK, and none of the current construction will exceed the
present height of the roof?
Ms. Miller- Correct, the present height of the roof in front that currently has the
one story, it won't exceed that.
Mr. Barney - I'm sorry, now I'm confused. Front, are you meaning front, you
mean lakeside, or front meaning?
Ms. Miller- Lakeside, the part that currently has one story.
Chairperson Sigel — Two stories.
Ms. Miller- Yeah, sorry, two stories. It won't be any higher than that.
Chairperson Sigel —We're just trying to figure out the exact setback.
Ms. Miller- It'll come several feel higher than it currently, than that little walk in
closet is currently.
Chairperson Sigel — Right, right.
Ms. Miller - Just so it meets the peak in front there.
Chairperson Sigel — Should we start with an interpretation, John?
Mr. Barney - I don't. I think if you've decided to give a variance, you've
interpreted that it needs a variance, and I think that you don't need to get into...
23
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel — OK. Have you figured out what you might state?
Mr. Barney - Well, you're right. Because the angle to the lot line varies, then
scaling it off... well, part of the problem is you don't know how far to go towards
the lake side from the east side of the house because of...
Chairperson Sigel —Well, roughly about halfway.
Mr. Barney - Well, I show the house as being about 40 feet, so halfway would be
about 20 feet, and at the 20-foot mark.
Chairperson Sigel — Yeah I think it was less than that, right?
Ms. Miller- I think it was about 18 feet that it would go, it's east-west I think it's
about 18 feet, isn't that right, Kevin? The addition will...
Chairperson Sigel — The addition will be about 18 feet from the back...
Ms. Miller- From the back of the current second story, to the where you walk in,
the door at the east end of the house.
Mr. Barney - East wall.
Chairperson Sigel — From the east wall, 18 feet.
Ms. Miller- 18 feet, yeah.
Chairperson Sigel — OK.
Mr. Barney - So at the 18-foot mark you're going to be about 11 feet it looks like
away from the property line.
Chairperson Sigel — OK.
Mr. Barney - And then it widens out to be about 13 feet at the southeast corner of
the existing building, and at the north line, 18 feet and you're down to about 5
feet, because that also narrows.
Chairperson Sigel — at the lakeside you're down to 4.8, so five would be pretty
safe.
Mr. Barney - Five is pretty close.
Chairperson Sigel — So we could just say...
24
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Barney - I like your idea the more I think about it: the existing footprint as
shown on the plans submitted at the meeting.
Chairperson Sigel — I mean saying numbers almost encourages widening the
back of the house.
Mr. Barney - Yes.
Chairperson Sigel — OK. Are there any further comments or questions? Mike,
any comments?
Mr. Smith - Now. Is this still an area variance?
Mr. Barney - This is still an area variance.
Chairperson Sigel — So we don't need a SEAR?
Mr. Barney - We do not need a SEAR.
Chairperson Sigel — OK. I will move to grant the appeal of Susan Miller
requesting a variance from the requirements of Article XXV, Section 2502 of the
Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to add a second floor addition to a non-
conforming building and lot located at 1036 East Shore Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No. 19.-2-13, Lakefront Residential Zone with the finding that the
requirements for an area variance have been satisfied. With the condition that
no part of the second floor addition exceed the current height of the portion of the
house that is currently two stories. And that the second floor addition not have
any larger footprint than the current first floor of the house.
Mr. Barney - Exclusive of eaves? Because as I look at this, it looks to me like
eaves may project outside the footprint?
Mr. Allyn - Yeah, you have a one-foot overhang.
Mr. Frost - Just the one foot, though?
Mr. Allyn - Yeah, I believe that's what we had.
Chairperson Sigel — can we say the foundation footprint?
Mr. Barney - will not exceed the foundation footprint by more than one foot.
Mr. Allyn -We're going to match the overhang that's already on the house.
Chairperson Sigel — OK.
25
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Barney - Yeah, because I suspect this survey does not pick up the overhang,
so we can't just say foundation footprint.
Chairperson Sigel —OK.
Mr. Barney - Actually, the way I suggest you phrase it is that the structure not
exceed the current footprint, with the exception that eaves may overhang the foot
print by up to one foot...
Comments inaudible.
Chairperson Sigel — OK. And also, with the condition that the addition be built as
indicated on the applicant's plans, whichever is more restrictive. Second?
Mr. Allyn - Yeah, it's one foot on most of it, and two foot on part of it.
Chairperson Sigel — OK.
Mr. Allyn - Here's the existing second story right here, so it will come out this
way, but then the house narrows down here, so this is to keep the eaves in a
straight line. It'll be one here, but it'll jump up to two here.
Chairperson Sigel — OK, this is the rear of the house, or the trackside?
Mr. Allyn - Yes.
Comments inaudible.
Chairperson Sigel — OK, I'll modify the condition of one foot eaves to allow for
two foot eaves where indicated on the applicant's plans.
Mr. Niefer - Second.
Chairperson Sigel — Second?
Mr. Niefer - Yes.
Chairperson Sigel —All in favor?
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 037: of Susan Miller, 1036 East Shore Drive,
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 19-2-13, Lakefront Residential Zone.
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Jim Niefer.
26
TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
JULY 19, 2004
APPROVED MINUTES
RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of Susan Miller, Appellant,
requesting a variance from the requirements of Article XXV, Section 2502 of the
Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to add a second floor addition to a non-
conforming building and lot located at 1036 East Shore Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No. 19.-2-13, Lakefront Residential Zone.
FINDINGS:
The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied.
CONDITIONS:
1. No part of the second floor addition shall exceed the current height of the
portion of the house that is currently two stories.
2. The structure shall not exceed the current footprint, with the exception that the
eaves may overhang the footprint by up to 1 foot where 1-foot eaves are shown
on the applicant's plans and by up to 2 feet where 2-foot eaves are shown on the
applicant's plans.
3. The addition shall be built as indicated on the applicant's plans or according to
the above conditions, whichever is more restrictive.
The vote on the a MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
NAYS: NONE
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Sigel — You're all set.
Ms. Miller- Thank very much, thank you, gentlemen.
Chairperson Sigel — Thanks.
Ms. Miller - Thank you.
Chairperson Sigel adjourns the meeting at 8:00 p.m.
Kirk Sigel, Chairperson
27