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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA Minutes 2004-06-21 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MONDAY, JUNE 21, 2004 7:00 P.M. PRESENT: Kirk Sigel, Chairperson (7:25); Harry Ellsworth, Board Member; Ronald Krantz, Board Member; James Niefer, Board Member; Andy Frost, Director of Building/Zoning; John Barney, Attorney for the Town; Michael Smith, Environmental Planner. EXCUSED: None OTHERS: Paul Levesque, 217 N. Aurora St., HOLT Architects; Joe Fitzgerald, Cayuga Medical Center; Gary Teeter, Veteran Fireman's Association; Douglas Kemp, Veteran Fireman's Association; Randie Blooding, 121 Park Lane; Kathy Hansen, 121 Park Lane; Gregory Shaw, 102 Updike Road; Sue Fine, 102 Updike Road; Joe Francis, 865 Taughannock Blvd.; Patty Francis, 865 Taughannock Blvd.; Martha Armstrong, 766 Elm St. Ext. Mr. Ellsworth called the meeting to order at 7:11 p.m. APPEAL (ADJOURNED FROM MAY 17) of Cayuga Medical Center, Appellant, Lawrence Hoffman, HOLT Architects, Agent, requesting a variance from the requirements of Article XIII, Section 1303 of the revised Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance (effective April 1, 2004), to be permitted to construct a building addition to the Cayuga Medical Center with a structural height of 89 + feet (36 foot limit) located at 101 Harris B. Dates Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 24-3-2.1, Office Park Commercial Zone. MR. ELLSWORTH - This is the June meeting of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals. We have five appeals tonight, the first one was adjourned from the May meeting of Cayuga Medical Center requesting a variance. MR. FROST - The purpose for the adjournment Harry, I don't know if you were here for that. Were you here? MR. ELLSWORTH - Yeah. MR. FROST -We didn't... well I guess basically it was mis-advertisement, which is now properly advertised for the height of 89 feet. I don't recollect if we had the public hearing or if we even got that far. MR. ELLSWORTH - I don't think we got that far. Anyway, it's to be permitted to construct a building addition to Cayuga Medical Center with a structural height of 89 feet. The second appeal is of Ionghouse cooperative requesting a variance to be permitted to construct an 8x12 accessory building at 762-770 Elm St. Ext. TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES The third appeal is of Gregory Shaw to be allowed to construct an addition to an existing non-conforming residential building at 102 Updike Road. The fourth appeal is of the Ithaca Veteran Fireman's Association requesting approval to construct a 2448 pavilion at 648 Elmira Road. The last appeal which is the fifth appeal is by Joe and Patty Francis to be allowed to construct additional living space to a non-conforming building at 865 Taughannock Boulevard. If you want to go ahead with the Cayuga Medical Center appeal. Your name and address. Paul Levesque, HOLT Architects — Good evening, my name is Paul Levesque and I'm with HOLT Architects and I'm at 217 N. Aurora St., and I'm here tonight representing Cayuga Medical Center. We were here last month and we started to do a presentation. Do you want me to go through the whole presentation or we sort of talked about the issues. I'll proceed however you'd like to do it. MR. ELLSWORTH - Just briefly touch on the issues. MR. LEVESQUE - OK. The zoning for the town of Ithaca requires that any building over 36 feet high go to the Board of Zoning Appeals. We're constructing an addition on the southwest corner of Cayuga Medical Center. The existing building, as it's measured by the town ordinance is 83 feet 4 inches high. The addition we're proposing is 89 feet, so it's a difference of about 6 feet higher than the existing mechanical penthouse. Would you want me to present the drawings? MR. ELLSWORTH - Yeah, we have some new people here. Pause. Could you move back a little so those sitting behind Larry can see? Anybody that can't see can come up and sit in these three seats up here. MR. LEVESQUE - This building in the background is existing Cayuga Medical Center. The entrance on the second floor that we're all used to going into is located over by the emergency department's located over here, and the emergency department is by this addition. The addition is along the west and southwest corner of the building, and so the building as it's currently measured from the top of this mechanical room down to the basement over here is actually 83 feet, I'm sorry it's 89 feet from here down to the basement over there. And this is the other part of the existing hospital that's 83 feet 6 inches, so we're a little bit higher in this area right here. Part of the reason we're building up in this area is it's a mechanical penthouse that will serve the laboratory which will be located over here on the fourth floor. And it's the best way to serve that laboratory is actually with equipment right up on the roof right above it because that's the exhaust that we want to get out of the building. MR. ELLSWORTH - If you want to see better you can come up to these seats. 2 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. LEVESQUE - The uhhh... that's an axonometric... The building as we're proposing it on the lower level which would line up with the cafeteria entrance down on the south side is a mechanical room. MR. ELLSWORTH - So that south side is going out in the parking lot and it's not parking. MR. NIEFER - Well, you've got a circle there. MR. LEVESQUE -And this is the second level which actually lines up with the emergency department and imaging. So this would be the new emergency department and lobby area located over here. The third floor would be a new critical care unit which is located over here which is adjacent to the existing one. The fourth floor is the laboratory which we're locating up here, which will actually line up with the fourth floor patient wings. It's at the same level as the existing roof here. And the final level, the penthouse level, would be located up on top of that. MR. KRANTZ - So that's the portion that's. MR. LEVESQUE - This is the portion right here. Well, actually all of them exceed, all of them... MR. KRANTZ -Well, I mean the existing high point. MR. LEVESQUE - That's correct. This portion right here is the portion that exceeds the existing mechanical penthouse right here. MR. KRANTZ - There are just five levels? MR. LEVESQUE - That's correct. MR. KRANTZ - Yet it's 89 feet. That's 18 feet for each level? MR. LEVESQUE - The way the town zoning is written, we have to measure from the lowest level from the existing building, so there's a basement actually located over in this area of the building here, so we actually have to measure the height from the basement here to the top over here. Is there any other questions I can... MR. ELLSWORTH - Should we do the public hearing. I haven't run a meeting in quite a while. MR. BARNEY - Yes, it would probably be a good idea to hold a public hearing. 3 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. ELLSWORTH - OK, we'll open up the meeting for anyone from the public that has questions or concerns to come up to the microphone. Mr. Ellsworth opened the public hearing at 7:20 p.m. MR. ELLSWORTH - Anyone? We'll close the public hearing. Mr. Ellsworth closed the public hearing at 7.21 p.m. MR. SMITH- Harry, I can just mention that the SEAR was done at the planning board, a negative determination has been made and the planning board... it was a type I action and the Planning Board is the lead agency, and they made the determination for the site plan, the special permit and the height variance. You should have a copy of the negative determination in your packet. MR. BARNEY - Translated that means you don't have to do anything. MR. ELLSWORTH - All right. Any further questions from the board? Any special stipulations from the planning department that affect us? Can I have a motion on the appeal of Cayuga Medical Center to construct a building addition with a structural height of 89 feet where 36 feet at 101 Harris Dates drive? MR. NIEFER - Can we make it not more than 91 feet, because it's 89 plus or minus? MR. ELLSWORTH - That'll cover it. Nothings moved there. MR. NIEFER - I'll second that. MR. BARNEY - Could I suggest... MR. ELLSWORTH - I didn't make a motion. MR. NIEFER - I thought you did. MR. BARNEY - Wasn't that a motion? MR. ELLSWORTH - Well, I grant that the board approve the appeal of Cayuga Medical Center, requesting a variance from the requirements of Article XIII, Section 1303 of the revised Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a building addition to the Cayuga Medical Center with a structural height of 89 ±feet (36 foot limit) located at 101 Harris B. Dates Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 24-3-2.1. MR. NIEFER - I'll second that, but we were going to agree to make it not more than 91 feet. 4 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. ELLSWORTH - With a structural height not to exceed 91 feet. MR. BARNEY - I would suggest a condition that it be built substantially in accordance with the plans as submitted for the variance. MR. NIEFER - Second. MR. ELLSWORTH -Appeal's passed, MR. BARNEY - You've got to vote. MR. ELLSWORTH - Oh, excuse me, all in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 028: Cayuga Medical Center at Ithaca, 101 Harris B. Dates Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 24.-3-2.1, Office Park Commercial Zone. MOTION made by Harry Ellsworth, seconded by Jim Niefer. RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of Cayuga Medical Center, Appellant, Lawrence Hoffman, HOLT Architects, Agent, requesting a variance from the requirements of Article XIII, Section 1303, Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance to be permitted to construct a building addition to the Cayuga Medical Center with a structural height not to exceed 91 feet at 101 Harris B. Dates Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 24-3-2.1. FINDINGS: The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied. CONDITIONS: The structure be built substantially in accordance with the plans as submitted for the variance. The vote on the a MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer NAYS: NONE The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. 5 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. ELLSWORTH - Getting ahead of myself there. Thanks, Paul. APPEAL of Longhouse Cooperative, Martha Armstrong agent, requesting variance from requirements from Article VIII, Section 807 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct an 8 x 12 foot accessory building extending 8 ± feet into the front yard setback of 762-770 Elm Street Extension, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 28-1-28.4, Low Density Residential Zone. Said accessory building will in part be a school bus stop shelter. MR. ELLSWORTH -Would you give your name and address? Martha Armstrong, 766 Elm St. Ext. —Yup. Martha Armstrong, 766 Elm St. Extension. I'm one of the members of Longhouse Cooperative, we have nine households there and we have, we actually have two driveways, but this shed is proposed to be at the head of the one that has seven of the nine households on it. And we have several reasons to want to put a shed there; one is that we continue to have school age children waiting for buses out there. One is to move, have a place to put garbage cans up by the road. And one is just partly to have a good place to put a sign for emergency vehicles coming in or anyone else coming in. We have a lot of people that get confused up there. And just to be able to beautify the area also. It's had a lot of old trees falling down there for a while, and just this past winter too, the Sumac's and everything started getting terrible, and we decided to clear it out and we thought it would be nice to beautify the area and have a little shed there and have a kind of entry to the place. MR. ELLSWORTH - So the main use is for the children? MS. ARMSTRONG - Well, we'll have children in the bus shed, and we'll have garbage storage within the shed. And that seems like the best location for us, and we found out that with the new zoning that even though nothing about us conforms with the new zoning, that we do in fact have two things. One, I think we're not allowed to have anything in the front yard, and our houses are set back 150 to 300 feet from the road, so everything is pretty much front yard. And also we'd like to have it close enough to the road that it does intrude into the 30 feet setback. MR. FROST - Essentially the only variance issue if I understand things, is that you are in the front yard setback and encroaching in that setback by 8 foot. MS. ARMSTRONG - OK, I thought both of those.... Anyway, we're encroaching. MR. NIEFER - The garbage can storage, is that just until the refuse collector comes and picks it up that particular day of pickup? 6 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MS. ARMSTRONG - Our plan was just to move them out there permanently. Currently we store them in a shed that is way back by building one in that drawing, there's a little shed up here where they're stored now, and that it would be more convenient for the garbage pickup people and for us to have them actually at the end of the road. MR. NIEFER - But this garbage shed, is it going to be for garbage storage continuously or just at the day when the regular collection service comes by. MS. ARMSTRONG - No, we plan to have the cans located out there in the enclosure. MR. ELLSWORTH - And they will be visible from the road? MS. ARMSTRONG - Well, the shed would be visible, I guess we could put a door on it so it's not visible. MR. FROST - Martha, maybe you can just describe. I think what their concern is is just the visible effect of seeing the garage cans. How is that going to be screened? MS. ARMSTRONG - Oh, ummm, well we've planned to have a solid wall up to the height of the cans, it would probably be a little higher than the cans facing the street, and then the opening facing our driveway, and if you're concerned, we could probably put some gates on the driveway side too. I don't know maybe it's a security thing that we'll want to seal them up anyway, so that kids coming by don't come by and shake them, because they go by and shake our mail now, rummage our mailboxes. I guess we haven't gotten that far in actually an approval from all nine houses of exactly what it will look like, but we do plan to screen. Certainly it will be solid to the tops of the cans facing the street and solid between where the kids sit and where the cans are and solid on the backside. It would be solid at least on three sides, and we could probably put a gate across the front that would hide it. MR. FROST - What you might find without that is a security issue in a different fashion, is that people might be depositing their garbage there in front of you. MS. ARMSTRONG - And we do get cars rummaged and stuff once in a while down there, so it maybe will work out that we put a gate on it. I mean, if it would make a difference to you, we could put something across that screens the front of it. MR. FROST - This picture perhaps is seeing that, and perhaps if you could clarify based on the picture how your shed will be different. 7 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MS. ARMSTRONG - Yeah, this was to sort of show the shape of the roof how it comes down and then it will be solid up to there so you didn't see cans in there. And we could probably, as I was saying, we could put a little pair of gates up there that could be opened up by the garbage guys but that would screen it to the height of the cans. I mean I don't really want to close it up, so there's some airflow. Completely. Well, there's going to be airflow, it's just posts in the ground. In the same way this is a simple post in the ground structure. MR. ELLSWORTH - It's obviously a needed improvement to your property and a nice thing for the children. It certainly should be there I think. But, I think we share a little bit of concern here that if you're going to have a whole bunch of unsightly garbage pails in full view of the road. MS. ARMSTRONG - I don't think anyone at the co-op wants unsightly at the entrance to the co-op. Our idea is to put some plantings out here and have it look nice and people like the shape of the saltbox shape shed so it's a little elegant rather than just a prefab tin can or something. You know, so it looks nice, it's the entrance to our homes. We weren't planning to have permanent ugly garbage cans sitting at the entrance to our homes, but if you want to stipulate that we will put a screening across the front of it, I think that will be fine, I don't think we'll have any problem with that. You know some kind of gate that is solid or has some nice stripping on it or something. The appearance of our houses is mostly board and batten, so maybe we'll use T111 that looks like that or actually do board and batten like the houses. MR. FROST - Is there a TCAT stop up there too? MS. ARMSTRONG - I wish. No, the TCAT bus can't get through the gulch I don't think, where Coy Glen goes, so, it's just the school bus comes up there and they actually turn around in the driveway and they head back down. They don't go through the Coy Glen either, I don't think. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Maybe this was addressed, I'm sorry I came in late, but I wasn't really convinced of the need for the variance. You have quite a bit of parking along the driveway there. You have area on the other side of the driveway at the end, where you could add some parking spaces if you mowed down the grass. MS. ARMSTRONG - The other side has drainage down through there. That's kind of where the water runs, down through there. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, I mean as you point out in your case it would probably be only one parking space that you would lose if you moved it the 8 feet. One of the criteria for an area variance that we need to make a finding of is that it's not possible to do it any other way. Or it's at least some difficulty to work around the need for the variance, and I find it to be a pretty simple thing to just 8 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES move it back 8 feet. I mean, especially you mentioned that the bus even turns around in your driveway, so it's not like the bus is going to drive by and not see the kids and keep going or something. MS. ARMSTRONG - Yeah, well, they do sometimes not see the kids and keep going. I mean they do come and if the kids not right up there. Cause they load them, and then they back in and turn around and leave. And if the kid isn't loaded, they don't stop after they back in and turn around. So they have in fact left kids behind who were up at you know the driveway to that first house. It's just, I don't know why. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Even if, they still turn around in your driveway though, even if there are no kids there? MS. ARMSTRONG - Yeah, because that's the end of the run. They don't go down through the Coy Glen gulch, they actually turn around their route. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. So I mean it would be pretty much impossible to miss children standing there if the bus pulled into the driveway. MS. ARMSTRONG - You would think so, but it's happened, it's definitely happened. They need to load the kids before they start backing up. And if they don't see the kid like instantly and load them, then they go into backup gear, and they just back up and leave. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Still I mean me personally I just don't really see the compelling need. I mean I drove around your property a little bit today, and you have quite a bit of parking all around the complex. MS. ARMSTRONG - But in the winter when there's plowing, and we all want to park right up in the front there, it's the place to park, and when we have overflow parking, that's where people park. MR. FROST - If I can add something, Martha, there actually are two issues here, and actually as I think about it, this would be an accessory building, and correct me if I'm wrong but accessory buildings have to be in the rear yard, so this is a request not just to have this bus stop located, which is being debated, within that 8 feet into the required buffer zone or area setback, but also just to have it in the front yard period. So we really have two issues here, whether or not you agree that she can have them in the location proposed is one issue. The second issue which kind of makes sense to me, is having a bus stop in the front yard, because that's where the bus is picking up the kids along the road. So there are two issues, I apologize. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —Anyone else have any other questions or comments? 9 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. NIEFER -Well, if this was not allowed for anywhere, then you would never have any kind of bus stop. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — right, well I mean most homes, most people don't put bus stops in front of their home. MR. NIEFER - Yeah, but there are a lot of bus stops throughout this universe. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —Well, for municipal bus service, yeah, I mean typically you don't have school bus stops though that are covered. MR. FROST - If this was just a bus stop I might have been tempted to not make an issue of it, it was the garbage cans part of it, and I think Martha and I did discuss this. It was a bit more than I was comfortable letting go. If it was just a simple school bus, I'm not sure that I would have sent it to the board. MR. NIEFER - I think that's what we're all a little unhappy about is the garbage pails. It's hard to vote against a bus stop for children. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah, I mean, I... MS. ARMSTRONG - Could the bus stop part protrude into that right of way or not? You'd want the whole thing back 30 feet? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — I mean I don't know how others, I can't speak for others on the board, but it seems, you know I really still don't see the compelling need. I mean given that it's not allowed in the front yard at all normally, to then... MS. ARMSTRONG - All 300 feet of it. I mean, we have kind of a weird front yard. If we want to build a new garbage shed, we do not want to build it in our back yard. MR. FROST - Let me ask you this, not being sure where the board is going, the bus stop' I think they are comfortable with. Is there a problem putting the portion, even having a second shed, which still may need a variance because it's in the front yard. Could you move it back 8 foot so it's not within that buffer zone? MS. ARMSTRONG - I mean I think you're right. You've driven by the site. We probably could do anything. Aesthetically, location-wise, we've sort of thought about doing the landscaping around it and stuff. That's where we would like to have it and it works better for the parking for us not to have people parking right up by the road when there is guest overflow. And there is guest overflow a lot. I mean you may say there is a lot of parking there, but you have to remember, there are seven units using that driveway and believe me with a few teenage kids who have cars, and two or three people having guests over on a weekend, among seven households, there's a lot of cars coming in there. We do use that 10 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES guest parking even, just anytime that front guest parking gets used. And when it is a snowplow situation, we definitely want to try to get all the cars down, we can't put them on the street. It's just, that's a good place to do it. And having them right up by the street is uglier than having them behind a landscaped shed in my opinion, but you guys have your thing, so. We've been thinking about that that aesthetically it would be a nice little shed with a nice forsythia or, and a new tall tree and some other lilacs or something in that new front area to create screen between the road and our activities behind the road. I mean if you just want us to do some kind of little thing that cans go in, we can do that and just have a separate bus shelter I guess, but, I don't know what you. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — I agree that aesthetically it makes more sense to have it all one unit, rather than sort of a line of little huts along your... MS. ARMSTRONG - Yeah, we would prefer not to do that. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah, how would the other members feel about, obviously having a requirement that the garbage cans not be visible from either the road or even the driveway. MS. ARMSTRONG - Or the driveway. Cause they would be visible. Probably that driveway side would be... MR. ELLSWORTH - Three sides were going to be up to a certain height... MS. ARMSTRONG - Well, we're definitely going to wrap the three sides that don't have to have access. And then I think we can do a simple kind of gate that can be opened but would be a screened gate that would cover the cans and that would look nice. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — So the cans would be sort of in the rear, and also then you would access it from one end? MS. ARMSTRONG - Well, I think it would be access by that driveway. MR. FROST - It would be accessed by the gate... MS. ARMSTRONG - Yeah, open the gate on the driveway side. MR. FROST - The wood siding would go up at least to the height of the cans so as you look over the side you're not going to see the cans. But it would seem to me you would want to have some kind of visibility even with the kids on their end with the school bus stop. 11 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MS. ARMSTRONG - Right, we haven't got an absolute settled design yet. The 8x12 is the absolute largest that anyone envisions this being, and we might be able to make it 8x8 or a little bit smaller. MR. FROST - My sense is, if I can add something, having been in most of the buildings there over the years with building permits, we actually do fire safety inspections at least one of the buildings there. I think there is a general woodsy, nice aesthetic value that all of the residents have created, and I would be a little surprised if they created a garbage shed bus stop that would be any less aesthetic or nice as their buildings and everything else. Having seen their buildings again, I think they are very conscious of the aesthetics and do a very nice job with them. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —well, personally, I'm comfortable granting the variance for it to be in the front yard, as they propose, with the condition that the garbage cans be screened. I'm just not convinced of the 8-foot variance. MR. NIEFER - I'm not very enthusiastic about having continuous permanent garbage in a structure along or near the road. The bus shelter situation, yes, I understand the desire and need for that. Windswept hillside and so on. I'm just thinking about how many other places are there around in the town of Ithaca where structures and auxiliary buildings are allowed along the road for continuous storage of garbage. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah, no, that's a good point, Jim. MR. KRANTZ - And that's an area that has a number of stray dogs and lots of wildlife, it's a rustic. MS. ARMSTRONG - What stray dogs would you be talking about? Actually the dogs don't go in the garbage much, they go in the compost, they have plenty of free to eat. There's really no food in the garbage, it all goes in the compost. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — I mean as I drove around I saw, you really have a substantial number of garbage cans and recycling cans and such, I mean, would you be able to fit all the recycling and garbage? MS. ARMSTRONG - Oh, the recycling stays in people's houses until Friday pickup. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. MS. ARMSTRONG - So this would just be garbage. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — This would just be garbage. 12 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MS. ARMSTRONG - There's normally three cans in use in a week, and once in a while, I mean we store up to, we have six cans available, but usually only three of them get used. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. MS. ARMSTRONG - But, you know, if someone's doing a spring cleaning or something, we got the extra ones. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —And this is... putting the garbage there doesn't seem like it's really convenient for the residents. I mean they would have to walk their garbage out to the end of the road. MS. ARMSTRONG - Well, most of us drive out every day, and pop it out. It's actually for the far households it's easier. But, one of our main concerns is the garbage truck is very heavy and does a lot of damage to the road and we're constantly re-gravelling the road to keep it maintained enough for vehicles that need to use the road and so we're just trying to get it out. It's also very noisy having the truck back all the way in at 7:00 in the morning. Beep, Beep, Beep for five minutes up the road. And it's not particularly safe having them come up and down the road I think. MR. NIEFER - Kirk, they could send the garbage out in the morning with their children. MS. ARMSTRONG - There we go, we'll have the little tykes carrying it out for us. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah, I am somewhat sympathetic to Jim's point. I'm not sure if we want to set the precedent of allowing people to put garbage sheds by the road. And also if they were just building a bus stop sort of lean to, then that would be a much smaller and you wouldn't have to have much of an enclosure. MR. ELLSWORTH - You know, life is full of small ironies. For many years, the resident's of that area fought bitterly because people were dumping their garbage on the other side illegally, and finally after a lot of policing and literally years of struggling, got people to stop dumping their garbage on the other side of the road. And now we're going to legalize it on the opposite end. MR. BARNEY - Martha, I may have missed it, is there a reason the garbage cans need to be up by the road? MR. FROST - It was because of... they're trying to eliminate the need for the truck to come all the way back... 13 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MS. ARMSTRONG - You know, our main reason is the wear and tear from the garbage truck itself... MR. ELLSWORTH - There's a ravine on the other side that goes all the way down... MR. BARNEY - I beg your pardon? MS. ARMSTRONG - Our first motivation, though there are some other ones, is the wear and tear from the garbage truck is a very heavy axled truck, it puts a lot of wear and tear on our road and sop we constantly re-gravel is to keep it in decent condition for vehicles that need to come in there. And we also want to use the shed where the garbage is now for utility purposes. So we need to build a new, we'd like to build a new shed for utility purposes, and certainly any utility shed is not going to be in the backyard, defined by our houses because our houses are so far set back, we basically don't really have back yards. MR. BARNEY - But the problem with the road is that it's a private road, not... MS. ARMSTRONG - Yeah, it's a long private driveway serving seven households, seven housing units. MR. FROST - You know, if they just put the garbage cans out front, I'm not sure there's an ordinance that would prohibit them from putting the cans out front. MS. ARMSTRONG - Just on the ground? MR. BARNEY - So, playing devil's advocate here, at least this would provide enclosure and protection for the garbage cans from animals getting into it and the like, but I'm not sure we have an ordinance that would prohibit you from putting the cans out along the road as long as the garbage is in the can. You know, I get called and do complaints because the garbage has been removed from the cans, usually by animals. MR. KRANTZ - I don't see too many stray empty garbage cans along the Town of Ithaca roads... MR. FROST - No, I'm not saying that you do, but I'm saying that there's no law if people want to... MR. KRANTZ - Maybe there's no law, but people generally have pride in their property and once the can is empty they bring it in within 24 hours unless there's some extenuating circumstances. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — I'm not sensing strong support for the garbage portion of the shed. 14 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. BARNEY - Pretty smelly joke. MS. ARMSTRONG - Can we get a variance for the garbage shed anywhere in the front yard though, given the layout of our property? I mean I think it's a real issue for us, because I think we do need a shed. We are going to need a new shed somewhere. I mean the backyard just isn't going to work for garbage cans on our property. If you look at our property... MR. BARNEY -Where's the garbage kept now? MS. ARMSTRONG - It's in a shed that is actually not on here because it is so humble. It is kind of near the word that says, near building one. You see there's a circle on each of the buildings. Building one is kind of in the middle back there, and it's near the driveway next to building one, a little bit in front of it probably, and near the driveway there. Just kind of at the bottom of that little wooded area shown. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with a variance to build a shed near one of the structures, you know or at least considerably further back from the road for garbage. You know, considering that your homes are already pretty far back from the road. MS. ARMSTRONG - So how far back would it need to be? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Ummm... MS. ARMSTRONG - Like could it be at the back of that front kind of parking area? Near where the first parking slot is for building for, but on the side with the post? Cause that side of building four has a lot of more drainage going through it. This side's a little bit higher. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —Would that be, would that be visible from the road still? MS. ARMSTRONG - Probably, everything is visible from the road. You can see building 4, you can see building 2. You can see building 1 from the road, I think. You can see each of those from the road, even though people like to claim they can't. You can see straight across. I mean we are planning to put new plantings in a long the road to screen there. I guess I don't know what to say to... most of this is open field along the east of the driveway, and there is trees along the west side of the driveway. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, let me just poll the board members. Who would support the garbage being included in the shed by the road? Along with the bus stop? 15 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES No's from the board. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, so maybe we should... I assume that people are in favor of a smaller structure for a bus stop by the road? MR. ELLSWORTH - For the children, yeah. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, why don't we take care of that? How large do you think you would need for just a... MS. ARMSTRONG - I think it would be a maximum of 48. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —48, OK that seems pretty reasonable. OK, we need to open the public hearing. If anyone wishes to speak... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL opens the public hearing at 7:50 p.m. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — If not, we'll close the public hearing. Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 7:51 p.m. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL - I move to make a negative determination of environmental significance in the appeal of Ionghouse cooperative requesting a variance from the requirements of Article VIII, Section 807 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a 48... MS. ARMSTRONG - Could you do it in square footage, just in case it came out 6x6? Could it be like less than 36 square feet? I mean, just so it was... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. To construct an accessory building at most 36 square feet placed in the front yard setback of 762-770 Elm Street Extension, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 28-1-28.4, Low Density Residential Zone. Said building will be a school bus stop shelter. MR. BARNEY - How far in to the front yard are you permitting this? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Not to encroach into the setback. Second? MR. ELLSWORTH - Second. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —All in favor? 16 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 029: ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT: Longhouse Cooperative, 762-770 Elm Street Extension, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 28-1-28.4. MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Harry Ellsworth RESOLVED that this Board makes a negative determination of environmental significance in the appeal of Longhouse Cooperative, Appellant, Martha Armstrong, Agent, requesting a variance from the requirements of Article VIII, Section 807 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct an accessory building at most 36 square feet placed in the front yard at 762-770 Elm Street Extension, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 28-1-28.4, Low Density Residential District. Said building will be a school bus stop shelter. This motion is based upon the Environmental Assessment Form prepared by Town staff dated June 10, 2004. The vote on the a MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer NAYS: None The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — I will then move to grant the appeal of Longhouse Cooperative requesting a variance from the requirements of Article VIII, Section 807 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a school bus stop shelter no greater than 36 square feet in the front yard at 762- 770 Elm Street Extension, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 28-1-28.4, Low Density Residential Zone with the finding that the requirements for an area variance have been satisfied and... John do you think we need any conditions? MR. BARNEY - Well, the only condition that it not be in the required setback. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, with the condition that it not be in the 30-foot front yard setback. Second? This is just for the bus shelter. MR. NIEFER - Second. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —All in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 030: Longhouse Cooperative, 762-770 Elm Street Extension, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 28-1-28.4. MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Jim Niefer. 17 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of Longhouse Cooperative, Appellant, Martha Armstrong, Agent, requesting a variance from the requirements of Article VIII, Section 807 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a school bus stop shelter, no greater than 36 square feet in the front yard at 762-770 Elm Street Extension, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 28-1-28.4, Low Density Residential District. FINDINGS: The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied. CONDITIONS: The building will not be within the 30-foot front yard setback. The vote on the a MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer NAYS: NONE The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, now how do you propose, I mean how would it work if you put it, if you put a shed. I'm saying, you have for instance, the second break in landscaping along the left side of the driveway as you go in. MS. ARMSTRONG -Are you talking where it says the field? That is used as access into building 3 on occasion. It's a driveway essentially, even though it's not a real driveway it is used to drive across the grass to get in there at different times. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Or, roughly across from that on the right hand side? MS. ARMSTRONG - Possible, I guess I would have to say, maybe I would have to come back because we're nine households, and... I mean it would be nice to have some kind of approval, but we might be back if nine households don't agree to that. I mean if you could give us some kind of indication of what would be an approved area, and then the area right across from that I think would be possible on the... it could be on the driveway side of that little parking are cause we just planted a very expensive tree on the non-driveway side of it, which I don't want to obliterate. 18 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. For me, and for me personally, you had suggested for instance along that parking area that's just beyond where the school bus stop is going to go, and that didn't, for me that didn't seem far enough back. I mean I'd like it further back more, sort of part of the grouping of buildings. And further away from the road. I'll just check with my colleagues and see if that's... MR. NIEFER - so, where are you talking... that second parking jog there? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — You see where the second parking area is on the right of the driveway? MR. NIEFER - Yeah. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — I was thinking either there or further back. MS. ARMSTRONG - Can I see where you're pointing to? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Sure... Chairperson Sigel and Martha Armstrong, appellant discuss the placement of the shelter. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —Well, I suppose... these are all on one tax parcel? MS. ARMSTRONG - Yes it is. MR. BARNEY - It's a cooperative. The houses are leased. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, so for this Andy is the backyard considered behind the furthest structure back? MR. FROST - I guess, I mean this is really a unique property. Other than Eco- Village, some property over on Caulkins Road, we really don't have properties that are set up in this kind of cooperative. I think your total land area is what? 19 acres. MS. ARMSTRONG - Well, including ... that tax parcel is about 19, Yeah. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Can a shed be in the side yard, or does it have to be in the rear yard? MS. ARMSTRONG - It has to be in the rear yard. 19 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Because it seems to me if you got behind the closest primary structure to the road, you could make the argument you're in the rear yard. MS. ARMSTRONG - There's no access for garbage or anything... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL - I'm just saying, sort of a line drawn across the property from the back here... MR. FROST - I've had some people who've built small little enclosures around their garbage cans, and the height of the height of the top of the enclosure is not too much greater than the top of the garbage can, and I generally have not gotten involved.... So you talk about a shed for your garbage cans, and I'm not quite sure what you envision. MS. ARMSTRONG - Well, when we were going to do it with a bus shelter, it was going to be a more substantial thing, if it's just going to be a box that holds cans, you know with a little picket fence around it or something, as close to the road as we can put it. We can just end this and talk to you about the garbage thing separately. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —Well, if you wouldn't necessarily want to put a roof on it. MS. ARMSTRONG - I don't care about the roof. MR. FROST - Martha, why don't we talk about it and I'll bring you back to the board if necessary. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. Well, I would think if you get behind the closest house, anywhere in the property. MR. ELLSWORTH -Which is building four. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —Which is building four, then that's the backyard of one of your buildings. It's all one lot. MS. ARMSTRONG - OK, well, why don't we stop with the... I'll say thank you very much for the approval of the bus shelter and we'll stop there? Is that good? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah. Thanks for your patience. APPEAL of Gregory Shaw, Appellant, requesting an approval from the Zoning Board of Appeals under Article XXV, Section 2505 of the Town of 20 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be allowed to construct an addition to an existing non-conforming residential building which encroaches within the front yard building setback located at 102 Updike Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46-1-13, Low Density Residential Zone. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Hello. If you could just state your name and address for the record. Gregory Shaw, 102 Updike Road — I'm Greg Shaw, 102 Updike road, Ithaca. This is my wife, Suzanne, same address. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, and just give us a brief overview of what you're doing and what you're trouble with the zoning is. MR. SHAW-We're planning to put an addition on the rear of our house, and when we applied for the permit, we were told that the existing structure was too close to the front setback, a few feet or something like that. But the addition is three bedrooms in the rear of the house. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. MR. FROST - So basically because of the location of the existing house, it's a non-conforming building lot, and any change to that building will require your approval. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Seems perfectly reasonable to me. MR. KRANTZ -Well, I'm a little confused. This one survey map shows the corner of the house where he's going to add on is under 25 feet from the lot line. MR. SHAW- Yeah, that survey map is before we consolidated two parcels. MR. KRANTZ - Oh. MR. SHAW-We also own 5 acres on that side, and so now it's all one parcel. MR. KRANTZ - OK. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —Any other questions or comments or concerns? Mike any comments? MR. SMITH- No, the addition isn't encroaching anymore into any setbacks. It seems appropriate. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, we'll open the public hearing at this time. 21 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel opens the public hearing at 8:00 p.m. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — If no one wishes to speak, we'll close the public hearing. Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 8:01 p.m. MR. NIEFER - It's noted it is a five and a half acre plot now, and none of the neighbors object. We have the letter. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Right, I think it would be perfectly reasonable even if it was the original lot, you know, putting it in the back. So, would we be granting a variance for the deficient front yard setback, John, or just approving this construction? MR. BARNEY - Under the old ordinance, you were enlarging a non-conforming use. Under the new ordinance, I don't know, Andrew, you're the expert on the new one. MR. FROST - To tell you the truth, it's not eminently clear the way the ordinance reads. And if you've noticed with the article 25, which is the non-conforming uses, I've basically cited virtually all the sections so I haven't left anything out. In this particular case though, I think section 2505 is saying to change the building you need authorization. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Presumably, the home either pre-dates that setback requirement, or they have a variance already for the front yard setback. MR. FROST -Well, I see it as a special approval, just as we did under the old ordinance. Some of the other cases that you'll hear tonight are a little less clear to me. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, well I will move to make a negative determination of environmental significance in the appeal of Gregory Shaw, requesting to expand their residence at 102 Updike Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46-1- 13, Low Density Residential Zone. Second? MR. ELLSWORTH - Second. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — all in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 031: ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT: Gregory Shaw, 102 Updike Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46-1-13. 22 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Harry Ellsworth. RESOLVED that this Board makes a negative determination of environmental significance in the appeal of Gregory Shaw, requesting to expand their residence at 102 Updike Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46-1-13, Low Density Residential Zone, based upon the Environmental Assessment Form prepared by Town staff dated June 10, 2004. The vote on the a MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer NAYS: None The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — and do you want me to wait then, or...? MR. BARNEY -Well, if you give me another 20 seconds here. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. We're just trying to figure out what we need to grant now. MR. BARNEY - I'm not sure we need to do anything. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — I was just wondering because as I started to read 2505. MR. BARNEY - 2502 is the one that I ... you have a non-conforming structure, which is what we have here, it says no such structure may be enlarged or altered in such a way which increases its non-conformity, but we're not increasing the non-conformity. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — So you think they don't need anything? MR. BARNEY - I don't think so. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Should I just tell them to go home, or should I make a motion to that effect? MR. BARNEY - To go home? Laughter 23 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — no, to declare that they don't need a motion. MR. BARNEY - I think under 2502, 1 think we're OK, because it says if a lawful structure exists at the effective date of adoption, this is a lawful structure, right? It can not be built under the terms of... for the reasons of restrictions on area, lot coverage, height, yards or other characteristics of the structure or its location on the lot, such structure may be continued so long as it remains otherwise lawful, subject to the following provisions: No such structure may be enlarged or altered in such a way as to alter its non-conformity, but you're talking about going out the back, and the non-conformity is in the front where there's a deficiency in the yard requirements. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —when was this home built? MR. SHAW- 49. MR. BARNEY - That predates all of our zoning so... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, OK. MR. BARNEY - So I think under 2502, the implication, and we probably should have said it explicitly, but implicitly, structure can continue and it may be enlarged as long as it doesn't increase its non-conformity. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, that's pretty different from the previous one. MR. FROST - But if you read over to page 103 at the top there, it says upon receipt of special approval of the board of appeals... OK that's to a two family. MR. ELLSWORTH - So a single family may be enlarged. MR. BARNEY - Some of this is dealing with uses, which the requirements are more rigorous to allow an expansion of a non-conforming use, which is as it should be because there you're basically doing a use that is inconsistent theoretically with the neighborhood, because you're doing something else. And here is the non-conforming structure section. Comments inaudible. MR. BARNEY - Well, we had a different ordinance before, now this is a new, much more polished, much more clear ordinance than we had before. MR. SHAW- Not clear enough. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — It's so polished that you're here unnecessarily. 24 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. FROST - We'll refund your money if necessary, so.... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Do you think we should make any kind of motion or should we just? MR. BARNEY - I don't think you need to, I mean it's up to you but I basically think you say Thank you, we appreciate hearing about it, and... build in peace. Laughter CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Thanks. We're sorry, this ordinance is only a couple months old. MR. BARNEY - We are learning, and in fairness, we are working our way through the ordinance just became effective April first, so we're still fumbling our way through. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — I think you would have needed a variance under the old ordinance. MR. BARNEY - Yes, no question... MR. NIEFER -Well, we're charging them a fee for hearing for no reason... MR. FROST - No, I said I'd refund the fee. MR. BARNEY -Actually, we ought to be paying them for educating us, but we won't go quite that far, so... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, so I think you're all set. MR. BARNEY - Yup, thanks. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Contact Andy tomorrow for your refund. MR. BARNEY - If he asks for my interpretation tomorrow, tell him not to call me, because it might be different than it is tonight. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Thank you. APPEAL of Ithaca Veterans Firemen's Association, Appellant, Douglas Kemp, Agent, requesting an approval from the Zoning Board of Appeals under Article XXV, Section 2500-2511, to be permitted to construct a 24' x 48' pavilion to be used in conjunction with the events of the Association, 25 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES on land currently zoned Light Industrial, located at 638 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33-3-4, -5.1, and —5.2. Said Association land use is non-conforming. A variance from Article XIX, Section 1906 may also be requested to allow said pavilion to be less than 60 feet to the side lot line. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Good evening gentlemen. Gary Teeter, Ithaca Veteran Firemen's Association — Good evening. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — If you could state your name and address to start off. MR. TEETER - Gary Teeter, 528 South Hill Loop. Doug Kemp, 638 Elmira Road — Doug Kemp, President of the Vet. Fire association, 638 Elmira Road. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —And you are looking to construct an open-walled pavilion. MR. TEETER - Open-walled pavilion which will be located between our existing building and our property line. The building is approximately, well it will be 2448. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — It will be where, approximately where you had, I saw there was some yellow rope. MR. TEETER - Exactly where that is. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — and this is only for the association's use —you won't be renting it out for anybody. MR. TEETER - That is correct. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. Does the association do things like Chicken Barbecues and stuff that are open to the public? MR. TEETER -We do chicken barbecues and stuff that are sometimes open to the public, generally if we have a barbecue or something like that, we do carry- outs. We don't generally open up our facilities for that type of activity. We do have other activities there, but they're all in the main building. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. It seems like a reasonable site to me. MR. KRANTZ - Just out of curiosity, what's to the left of the property line, what kind of terrain is that, is that swampy area. 26 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. TEETER - Yes, in fact it's wetland, right now it's agricultural, I think Eddydale farms uses that to plant corn, but I don't think they half an acre out of that I don't think. As a matter of fact, this year I don't think they even used it for planting. Directly to the west of our proposed structure, within about 15 feet of the proposed structure, there is an embankment that drops probably 15 foot down in to where the... MR. KRANTZ - And then it goes over to the old wonderland... MR. TEETER - Over to where the wet area is and the Wonderland Hotel, correct. MR. NIEFER -Would you expect bigger crowds on the property, in other words more cars, basically what I'm asking is, parking facilities are adequate for a 2448 enclosure. Will you have people...? MR. TEETER - Parking facilities I believe are more than adequate for what we would have there — in recent years, I think Mr. Frost would be able to tell you, in recent years, we've had a large amount of fill that was taken into the back area so it's all parking area. MR. NIEFER - So there's no spill over parking on route 13? MR. TEETER - No, there's no spillover, we own also the adjacent land to the north — to the east of that, which would be a big ball field, so any overflow parking that we have we do put into the ball field at this point in time. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — You have quite a bit of parking in the back there. MR. TEETER - There is very extensive parking in the back, yeah. Comments inaudible. MR. TEETER - They used to, yes, up until this year, now they're at the Town Barns I believe. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — So you're looking.... This would be 35 feet you said from the property line? MR. TEETER - That's correct. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. MR. NIEFER - Is that accurate? MR. TEETER - Yes it is, from a survey that was done by Robert Russell I believe in 1998. There's 93 feet between the property line and the existing building. So 27 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES if you took the 34 foot between the existing building and the edge of the proposed building, add the 24, would leave you with 35 foot between the proposed building and the property line. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — So, the setback variance is pretty clear, but what exactly would we be giving a variance for to allow it? I mean this is a non- conforming use, given that it's light industrial. So... MR. TEETER - We could put a machine shop in it if you want us to. Laughter. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — If you could make something in the pavilion, yeah. That would actually be helpful. So this would be non-conforming use of structures? Is this a use variance, John, do you think? I mean they're not changing their use, if they're allowed now? MR. BARNEY - This is light industrial? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah. Do they have some kind of use variance already to allow? MR. BARNEY - Probably not. MR. TEETER - I think that particular structure, the building when we purchased it several years ago, prior to that it was used by the machinists union as the union hall, and I think it was built, it was built, Doug you can tell them better than I... It was built 65? MR. KEMP - Somewhere's around there. MR. TEETER - The building itself was built in 1965, whether it was light industrial at that time, I don't know. But we basically use it for the same thing that the machinists union used it for, prior to that. I didn't quite understand the non- conforming use either, because it's the same use we've been using the place for right along. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — since it is zoned light industrial — I mean and you guys obviously aren't light industrial, I mean you're not manufacturing anything there. So, either you're... MR. TEETER - Well, we make hamburgers every once in a while. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Do they have a metallic taste ever? MR. TEETER - No, no. No oil in them either. 28 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — So it either would be the case that you've received a use variance to permit your use in a light industrial zone, or it was treated as a pre-existing, essentially grandfathered. MR. TEETER - I think it was treated as a pre-existing space. MR. FROST - That's what we've done in the past. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — so then this, if that's the way this is being treated, then this would be an expansion of a non-conforming use. MR. BARNEY - Yeah, which probably would require a variance for that. MR. FROST - Are you looking at 2501 or... MR. BARNEY - 2501, 1. MR. FROST - Such non-conforming use must not be enlarged or increased or extended to occupy a greater area of land than was occupied in the... use. So they're seeking a variance for that? MR. BARNEY - I would think they would need a variance, yeah. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — So that would be a use variance? MR. BARNEY - It would be the equivalent of a use variance, yeah. MR. TEETER - It seems to me we got a variance on that building the last time we put an addition on the front too. The last structure of the house was just... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah, you did, you got a front-yard setback variance. I mean that would have been the same thing. I think under the old ordinance that would have been treated similarly. I would have thought, that would be an expansion. MR. BARNEY -Well, you see under the old ordinance a use variance was not required. You could expand a non-conforming use by special approval, under the criteria that we applied then. But we deliberately changed that so that if you change a non-conforming use, you're now supposed to apply the criteria for a use variance. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK 29 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. BARNEY -Which LI had explicit in section 2510. Now, let me ask a couple questions. The area you're talking about putting this in... what is the reason you're going to put it here. What did you use that land for before? MR. TEETER - In the side yard we have barbecues, picnics, and clambakes for our association. We have over 200 members. In the past years, the past 7 or 8 years, we've put up a tent every year and we've taken the tent down. And we've had to rent tents and such to hold our functions there. But with the aging group we have out there, it's a lot easier to built a structure that we can use permanently as a tent in having the pavilion, rather than have to set up tents every year when we do our clambakes and picnics. MR. BARNEY - So would it be fair to say that what the pavilion is going to be used for is the same thing that you were using the property for, so you're really not enlarging a non-conforming use, you're just making it a little more permanent. MR. TEETER - No, no. The only thing we're doing is making it a little more permanent, rather than having a tent out there all summer long like we've had in the past couple years, we were going to go along with this pavilion. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — 2510 says that the application is to change the use to another non-conforming use. Then you apply the criteria to a use variance. And then it says if it's a setback you apply the area variance. It doesn't... neither of those is quite what they're doing. MR. BARNEY - Well, 2510, in the event an application is made for variance to enlarge or alter a non-conforming use, the board shall apply the same criteria in determining the matter as would be applicable as if the application had been made if the property was otherwise conforming. And then the examples are one is to enlarge a building that already encroaches, you use area variance requirements because you're dealing with an increased use, it's an area variance type of use. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. MR. BARNEY -Whereas if it's to change the use, if the applicant is to change the use to another non-conforming use, then you apply, it is considered a use variance. But... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — So this isn't changing the use. MR. BARNEY -Well, that's what I think maybe we can, if the board wants to head in that direction, I would be comfortable saying go ahead and do it on the theory that we're really not enlarging a non-conforming use, it's basically continuing a use that you've been doing in just a slightly different structure. I'm not sure it's a precedent I really want to rely on for every future application of this 30 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES nature, but in this particular instance, I would not be uncomfortable suggesting this. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Right, OK. Mike, any comments on environmental assessment? MR. SMITH- No. The planning board has reviewed the site plan and approved that. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, we'll open the public hearing at this point. Does anyone wish to speak? Chairperson Sigel opens the public hearing at 8:21 p.m. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — If not, we'll close the public hearing. Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 8:22 p.m. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —Any other questions or comments? OK, I will move to make a negative determination of environmental significance in the appeal of Ithaca Veterans Firemen's Association requesting an approval from the Zoning Board of Appeals under Article XXV. Would this just be 25, no 2510 is the criteria. Wouldn't it be 2501, John, use of land? 2502 is if structure exists at effective date, and this doesn't exist. MR. BARNEY -Well, you know I think I'm probably going to hang my hat on 2503, which is if a lawful use of structure and land in combination exists at the effective date, now we have land and an existing structure. The lawful use may be continued subject to the following provisions, and then no existing structure shall be enlarged... well, I think maybe you just want to punt on this one and go... The last one I'm quite certain about but this one... We'll argue that later, let's argue this one now. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Just gloss over all of them? MR. BARNEY - I would say under article XXV. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Under Article XXV, to be permitted to construct a 24' x 48' pavilion MR. BARNEY - That would continue a use that has been in existence for, what, 20 years? MR. TEETER - I would say since 1967 in one form or another between the machinists union and ourselves. 31 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Continuing a use since 1967 and also requesting a variance from article, which is there setback section again? MR. FROST - 1903 is it? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —Also requesting a setback variance from section 1903, or 1906. This is just the environmental assessment. Second? MR. ELLSWORTH - Second. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —All in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 032: ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT: Ithaca Veterans Firemen's Association, 638 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33-3-4, -5.1, and —5.2 MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Harry Ellsworth. RESOLVED that this Board makes a negative determination of environmental significance in the appeal of Ithaca Veterans Firemen's Association requesting an approval from the Zoning Board of Appeals under Article XXV, to be permitted to construct a 24' x 48' pavilion that would continue a use since 1967 and also requesting a setback variance from section 1906, based upon the Environmental Assessment Form prepared by Town staff dated June 10, 2004. The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer NAYS: None The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, I will move to grant the appeal of Ithaca Veterans Firemen's Association, requesting an approval from the Zoning Board of Appeals under Article XXV, to be permitted to construct a 24' x 48' pavilion to be used in continuation of a non-conforming use on their land dating back to 1967, located at 638 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33-3-4, -5.1, and —5.2. In addition this motion is granting a variance from Section 1906 to allow said pavilion to be no less than 34 feet to the side lot line, where 60 feet is required. This motion has the findings that the requirements for an area variance have 32 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES been satisfied and the condition that the pavilion be built as indicated on the applicant's plans, in the location indicated on the applicant's plans. Second? MR. ELLSWORTH - Second. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —All in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 033: Ithaca Veterans Firemen's Association, 638 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33-3-4, -5.1, and —5.2 MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Harry Ellsworth. RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of Ithaca Veterans Firemen's Association, requesting an approval from the Zoning Board of Appeals under Article XXV, to be permitted to construct a 24' x 48' pavilion to be used in a continuation of a non-conforming use on their land dating back to 1967 located at 638 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33-34 -5.1, and —5.2. In addition this motion is granting a variance from section 1906 to allow said pavilion to be no less than 34 feet from the side lot line, where 60 feet is required. FINDINGS: The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied. CONDITIONS: The pavilion be built as indicated on the applicant's plans, in the location indicated on the applicant's plans. The vote on the a MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer NAYS: NONE The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, you're all set. MR. TEETER - Thank you. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Thanks. 33 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES APPEAL of Joe and Patty Francis, Appellants, requesting an approval from the Zoning Board of Appeals under Article XXV, Section 2505, to be allowed to construct additional living space to a non-conforming building/lot located at 865 Taughannock Boulevard, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 25-2- 27, Lakefront Residential Zone. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Good evening. If you could state your name and address for the record. Patricia Francis, 865 Taughannock Blvd. — Patrica Francis, 865 Taughannock Blvd. Joe Francis, 865 Taughannock Blvd. — Excuse me, Joe Francis, 865 Taughannock Blvd. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, and just describe to the board briefly what it is your planning to do and why you need a variance. MR. FRANCIS - I think we're going for an approval and not necessarily a variance. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. MR. FROST - This may be similar to, but not necessarily exactly like the other case. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Have they received a variance ever for the... MR. FROST - They have had a special approval for the house given that they have a garage that doesn't conform to the zoning. In other words, I'm not sure with the new ordinance that the garage comes into effect. The existing house is actually 12 foot to the north side property line, but if you're taking the position. And it's not clear if the new deck which is highlighted in Orange on your survey maps. If that were to be more than 15 feet from the side yard, which I'm not sure it is, then that may be OK, however this being the lake front zone, which is a new zone in the town of Ithaca, they have a small guest house, which we picked up on your most recent survey submission which would not be permitted in the Lakefront Zone, you can't have two dwelling structures like you can in the other zones. So this one's got me a little stumped. But this is a lake front zone which is very new compared to the traditional residential zones we've dealt with. And again without being overly repetitious, the regular residential zones you can have two dwelling structures. This one has the guest house which wouldn't be... it may be legally non-conforming use of the land, but they couldn't build a guest house on this parcel under the current new zoning for the lakefront is one issue I possibly see, the other is if the deck being proposed is greater than 15 feet or not. If it's less than 15 feet, then I think that authorization is still required. 34 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. When was the guesthouse built? MR. FRANCIS - I'm not sure what you mean by guesthouse. There is a small outbuilding that has absolutely no plumbing, heating, whatever. Originally built by Mae Holmes, who is a music professor up at Ithaca College, she used it to compose music in. It's approximately 8x10. MRS. FRANCIS - Not that. MR. FRANCIS - Maybe not that big. We use it to store boating and equipment in, stuff like that. MR. FROST - I think that's a picture of it right there. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. So it doesn't have any sanitary facilities or anything? MR. FRANCIS - No. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — So that doesn't... MR. BARNEY - Qualify as a dwelling unit, no. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah so that doesn't qualify as a dwelling unit, so I don't think that's an issue unless it's encroaching, unless its physical location is encroaching. MR. FROST - No, I think the physical location is... it's just noted as a small guesthouse on the parcel, which we had that on the garage too. MRS. FRANCIS - It also lists the garage as living quarters. MR. FROST - Yeah, but that was scratched out on the... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, so that, neither the garage nor the thing labeled guesthouse would appear to be an issue. MR. FROST - So as we view this, I guess at least in my mind, unless the attorney could add something, that it's a question of whether or not the new deck is greater than 15 feet or less than 15 feet from the property line. MR. FRANCIS -According to our measurements, it's more than... more than 15 feet?... from the property line. 35 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — So it will be more than about two and a half feet from the edge of the deck to the edge of the house. MR. FRANCIS - Yes, you can see that on the... the... MRS. FRANCIS - There's an angle window on page Al on the middle floor, there's a window that opens, and that's at an angle so you have that set back as well. In other words, it's kind of misleading when you look at that picture, but... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, It looks like it's you know, I'm just looking at what's labeled 4 feet, it looks like it's almost the 4, so it's maybe three. MRS. FRANCIS - Yeah, if you look it's one quarter inch equals one foot, so there's at least an inch there, so it's at least four feet as you said. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah. MR. BARNEY - Yeah, except I think these may have shrunk a little bit... MRS. FRANCIS - Oh. MR. BARNEY - In the reproduction process here. Because the four feet, I'm measuring here where it shows exactly four feet, and it comes out to be a little bit more. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah, it's less than four, but I think it would be at least three. MR. BARNEY - Yeah, it's less than four, but I think it would be at least three, yeah. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — They only need it to be 2.6 right. MRS. FRANCIS -And we still don't know how that happened. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — so then did they just get an approval for the house in its present location or do you know if they got an area variance or doesn't it matter? MR. FROST - The last time they were to the zoning board, apparently the house may have been 16 feet and somehow it's not quite what it was. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — They've had a lot of dirt migration? MR. BARNEY - Boundary line migration. 36 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Boundary line migration. MR. FROST - You gave them the approval because they needed a special approval under the old ordinance because of the presence of the garage being across the property line and the highway line. So to make a change under the old ordinance to build this house that you're looking at on the survey map and in the pictures, they needed an approval from the board to construct the house because the parcel is non-conforming. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, that was before the house was built. MR. FROST -Well, there was an old house that was demolished. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, and at that time... MRS. FRANCIS - That survey that you're looking at is the one we brought you, Al Fulkerson did that before we built the house. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, and of course at the time the intention was to not encroach on the setback, so he didn't ask for a variance at the time? MRS. FRANCIS - No. MR. FROST - No, because they weren't proposing to have it. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —And you haven't been back here since then? MR. FRANCIS - No. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, so you don't have a variance then for the deficient setback. OK. So they need a variance for that. MR. FROST - Could be. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Could be? They definitely do. MR. FROST - I'm not making light of this, I am just thoroughly confused. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —Andy, they're living in an illegal house. Laughter. MR. FRANCIS -we followed whatever we were told to do so... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — They can't sleep at night. 37 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. FROST - But I don't know if the non-conforming provisions allows a non- valid non-conforming use to be enlarged, though. MR. BARNEY - You're exactly right. It needs to be a valid, non-conforming use. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —And it's not right now. MR. BARNEY - If it was built without the blessing of this board, then it's not a valid... CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Everything else about the lot is conforming right? MR. FROST - It appears to be conforming except for the garage. But section 2503 would... MR. BARNEY - the garage has been there right along, that's not a new... Comments Inaudible. MR. FROST - Doesn't seem to be an issue under the new ordinance. MRS. FRANCIS - Garage is like built when Mae Homes built, I mean it's as old as can be. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — But your addition has nothing to do with the garage? MR. FRANCIS - No. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Therefore that's a moot point, now the garage. So would it be your opinion John that if they got a variance for the deficient setback that they could do what they want to do now? MR. BARNEY - Yes. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — The way it was advertised can we do that tonight? MR. BARNEY - Well that's what I ... can I see how it was advertised? Was it advertised as it is shown on this menu here? MR. FROST - Changing a non-conforming building. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — additional living space to a non-conforming building and lot. 38 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. BARNEY - I don't sense that we're going to have a lot of hassle over it, but I would prefer to see it advertised as an application for an area variance for the house at it's present location. Which would take care of everything. MR. FROST - From here on out. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — So you don't think we can do it tonight? MR. BARNEY - I would recommend that you ... that it be re-advertised and that you hold the public hearing at the next meeting based upon an application for an area variance, and you probably ought to get a dimension. Do you have a more current survey than this map? MR. FRANCIS - That is the most recent. MR. BARNEY - OK, that doesn't show the... MRS. FRANCIS -Al Fulkerson just came out and re-looked at it, because I couldn't believe that it was right. I mean that's the thing we had at the meeting for our previous approval. So I called him up and he came out and he said "Yeah, Patty, it is right". MR. BARNEY - But that 12.4 is what the distance is between the house and the... the house at its closest point to the boundary. MRS. FRANCIS - Correct. MR. BARNEY - Ok, then I think probably it ought to be advertised for the variance to have a 12 foot plus or minus where... 15 feet is required? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. Unfortunately, as you've gathered, from earlier in our meeting, we're still getting used to the new ordinance, and this case it turns out was advertised incorrectly, what you want, if you get the variance for the deficient setback, which it was not advertised for, then you can do the rest of what you propose legally. So... MR. FROST - Then any of the new changes that you made — you wouldn't have to go back to the board for that. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah and any further changes you would need, as long as they stayed within the setbacks, so unfortunately what we need to ask you to do is just to come back to the next meeting. We can put you on first in the agenda, it will just take a couple of minutes. We'll advertise it correctly, and we'll grant you a variance for the deficient side yard setback. 39 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. BARNEY - Don't commit yourself to something unless you talk to the rest of your board. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Oh, well I guess OK, good point. Ummm, I assume that everyone is OK with granting a variance for the house as it sits there. MR. NIEFER -Absolutely. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, OK. So, I'm sorry but unfortunately that's the best we can do for you tonight. You know, you have, all of us have said that we're certainly in favor of granting that variance, but we just need to advertise it correctly. MR. FRANCIS - Thank you. MR. BARNEY -When do you want to start construction? MRS. FRANCIS - September. MR. BARNEY - September? MRS. FRANCIS -Well... MR. FROST - They were actually going to be in... MRS. FRANCIS - ...not be able to do it until September, because he's on another job. MR. FROST - And I actually had you scheduled for the next meeting anyhow, but because of a cancellation, I stuck you in this meeting so... MR. BARNEY - Well it's a good thing you did, because I think it, now it enables us to deal with it at the next meeting to give you the blessing that you need and then go from there. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK. MR. FRANCIS - What do we need to do then? MR. FROST - Nothing. MR. FRANCIS - Nothing? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Just come back, yeah... MRS. FRANCIS - So uh, we should change our little orange signs shouldn't we? 40 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES MR. BARNEY - Yes, you should get corrected orange signs. MRS. FRANCIS -What should it, what should they...? MR. BARNEY -Andy... MR. FROST - I'll talk to you tomorrow. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — They can just write it in themselves. MR. FRANCIS - Thank you very much. MR. BARNEY - You're welcome. I don't know what for, but you're welcome. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Yeah, certainly only one of you needs to come back next time. Umm, yeah, I'll move to adjourn this appeal to when's the next date? MR. BARNEY - July? CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — 19th? To July 19th at 7:00 p.m. And I'll try my best to be here on time next time. MR. FROST - We'll put you on first. MRS. FRANCIS - OK. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — Second? MR. NIEFER - Second. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL —All in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2004- 034: Joe and Patty Francis, 865 Taughannock Boulevard, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 25-2-27, Lakefront Residential Zone. MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Jim Niefer. RESOLVED that this Board adjourns the appeal of Joe and Patty Francis to the July 19, 2004 meeting of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals at 7:00 p.m. The vote on the a MOTION resulted as follows: 41 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JUNE 21, 2004 APPROVED MINUTES AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer NAYS: NONE The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. CHAIRPERSON SIGEL — OK, sorry about that. Chairperson Sigel adjourns the meeting at 8:39 p.m. Kirk Sigel, Chairperson 42