HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA Minutes 2005-02-28 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 28, 2005
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Byrd - It's approximately 41, maybe 41 and three quarters to be specific. It's
obviously from the lowest point to the highest point, it has a 12 inch pitch, so from the
bottom of the foundation, at least where the walkout door is to the top of the roof is
approximately 41 and a half feet.
Mr. Matthews —Is that the front elevation or the rear elevation?
Mr. Byrd- That's the rear elevation.
Mr. Matthews —The rear elevation?
Mr. Byrd- That's correct. It's the side, it's actually going to be a side walkout, so if you
look from the side, that's exactly where the elevation will take place.
Chairperson Sigel—OK. Anyone have any questions or comments? This is within what
we have granted for other homes.
Mr. Matthews —Been here before.
Mr. Niefer—From the elevations that we have, all it shows is one basement door exiting
the side of the building. No other windows or anything else?
Mr. Byrd- There are more than likely to be small windows on the back side,perhaps
maybe one or two.
Chairperson Sigel—Mike, any comments?
Mr. Smith—No, it should be an area variance, there is no SEQR needed.
Mr. Krantz—There are no views impeded?
Mr. Byrd - Absolutely not, no.
Mr. Matthews —So the slope of your house... you have a door in your plan here... and
the slope goes this way?
Mr. Byrd - This way?
Chairperson Sigel—He has it marked on the map her has, actually, indicated which way
the land slopes.
Mr. Matthews —I'm very familiar with the land. I've hunted every acre of it, so I pretty
much know it, I'm just not aware of where the variance that is requested is. Is it on the
front of the house or the rear of the house?
Chairperson Sigel—No, it's the rear.
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Frost—Where the walkout basement is.
Chairperson Sigel—The rear corner.
Mr. Matthews —So in order to have the walkout basement, he has to go up higher.
Mr. Frost—Right, the height is measured from the lowest point at grade, which is at the
bottom of the door at that side of the house. It's a very common...
Mr. Ellsworth—It's also because of the steep roof.
Chairperson Sigel—Any other questions or comments? OK, I will move to grant the
appeal of Marlon Byrd. Oh, thank you—we have to have a public hearing, I forgot about
that. We will open the public hearing, anyone wish to speak about this appeal?
Chairperson Sigel opened the public hearing at 7:07 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel—If not, we will close the public hearing and give it another try.
Chairperson Sigel closed the public hearing at 7:08 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel—I move to grant the appeal of Marlon Byrd, requesting a variance
from the requirements of Article VIII, Section 270-59 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning
Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a single-family residence with a building height
not to exceed 42 feet at 212 Eldridge Circle, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46-1-15.6,
Low Density Residential Zone. With the finding that the requirements for an area
variance have been satisfied, and with the requirement that the applicant's home be built
substantially as indicated on the plans submitted in the packet. Second?
Mr. Niefer—Second.
Chairperson Sigel—All in favor?
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 006: Marlon Byrd, 212 Eldridge Circle, Town of
Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46-1-15.6
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by James Niefer.
RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of Marlon Byrd, Appellant,
requesting a variance from the requirements of Article VIII, Section 270-59 of the
Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a single-family
residence with a building height not to exceed 42 feet at 212 Eldridge Circle,
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46-1-15.6, Low Density Residential Zone.
FINDINGS: The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied.
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APPROVED MINUTES
CONDITIONS: The applicant's home shall be built substantially as
indicated on the plans submitted by the applicant.
The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
NAYS: NONE
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
APPEAL of Lee C. Lee, Owner, Ernie Bayles, Agent/Appellant, requesting a
variance from the requirements of Article XXV, Sections 270-203 and 270-205 to be
permitted to construct a single-family residence with non-conforming building
setbacks and exceeding lot coverage limits at 1032 East Shore Drive, Town of Ithaca
Tax Parcel No. 19-2-14, Lakefront Zone. Variances from the requirements of
Article VII, Section 47 and 48 may also be requested. Said new structure replaces
an existing non-conforming structure.
Chairperson Sigel—Good evening.
Mr. Bayles - Good evening, I am Ernie Bayles, architect, this is Lee Lee. I am at 209
Utica Street, and Lee Lee is renting as this project goes forward. I have a slightly revised
proposal here, I think it would be advantageous to refer to, so I am going to distribute
this. The important piece here is the map depicting the proposed versus the outline of the
existing.
Mr. Frost—Ernie, we also have a fax that we got on Friday from a neighbor, Susan
Miller. Have you or Mrs. Lee seen this?
[pause as the applicant reads the letter]
Chairperson Sigel—Before we continue, I just want to state for the record that I am a
client of Mr. Bayles. Actually his partner is working on a renovation for my home. So I
wanted to get an opinion from you, John, on that conflict.
Mr. Barney—Has he indicated that you'll get a discount on your...
Chairperson Sigel—Quite a substantial discount.
[laughter]
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APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel—No, no discount. I don't feel any conflict.
Mr. Barney—There is no pecuniary benefit to you?
Chairperson Sigel—No.
Mr. Bayles - We're just reviewing this letter.
Mr. Frost—This is a handout, it was a fax from the neighboring property owner, who I
believe is in Hawaii at the moment. She voices some concern and also some support in
her letter. You may all want to read that now.
Mr. Bayles - So basically, the proposal here... I'm going to pull out a larger version and
sort of walk you through it, so it's clear what we're asking for. Essentially, the existing
building is a story and a half...
Mr. Coakley - Sir, would you like to use a wireless microphone?
Mr. Bayles - Oh, do we need that?
Mr. Coakley - Yes, you need to be microphoned so I can pick it up on the tape.
Mr. Frost—Ernie, I wonder if you can face it so that I think we have a number of people
in the audience of interest.
Mr. Bayles -Basically, the proposal is to build a new two-story structure with an attached
garage in place of the existing one and a half story structure with an attached carport.
The overall footprint has been enlarged slightly. 110 square feet out of 1100 total
existing. The proposal is this: the black, this is the property, this is the lake side, this is
the railroad side. The property is currently located right here, where the black outline is.
Our proposal is to build at the same side lot clearances that are there currently and
effectively remove a projection to the south which brings us down to a two foot side lot
clearance on this side, and basically keep that entire structure back so that the very tip of
it is no further than the existing westward projection of the building. So the area that we
we're actually going to be adding will be towards the railroad side, consisting of an
addition of about 4 feet to the carport area and about 4 feet off an existing front room as it
stands.
Mr. Frost—How close is the Northeast corner which is in the front yard, approach the
property line. You've got about 9.5 foot if I read this correctly?
Mr. Bayles - The original survey indicated 9.5 to the original corner. Depending on the
outcome of this meeting, we can maintain approximately six and a half, seven feet on
both sides, depending on whether you want us to kick it around or not. The way it stands
now, this corner would probably be more like 6.5 feet.
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Mr. Frost—And that's on the handout you just gave us, that shows the outline of
proposed building, February 28th. You said 6 foot.
Mr. Bayles - I believe so, I think I actually mention it in that little narrative.
Mr. Frost—OK, the narrative says 5 foot on the north line.
Mr. Bayles - OK, 5 foot, I'm sorry, I stand corrected, the narrative is correct.
Chairperson Sigel—Is there a particular reason you didn't align the new house more with
the lot lines to get a little bit greater setback?
Mr. Bayles - Well, we were primarily trying to illustrate the house in relationship to the
existing footprint, so that the extent of the additions were clear, and then we were going
to get into the discussions of how you would like us to treat the actual side lot lines. I
mean, they're not parallel obviously, but whether it would be preferable to crank the
house a little bit more to get closer to parallel or not. It seemed like a fine tuning
decision.
Mr. Barney—Are you using any of the foundation of the existing?
Mr. Bayles -No, no, we'll be replacing the entire foundation.
Mr. Matthews —Did you say you were going to make the side parallel with the property
line or not?
Mr. Bayles - We will ask for your direction there. If you would like to see that, I believe
we can accomplish.
Mr. Matthews —It's up to us to decide?
Mr. Bayles - Well, our proposal was to do this, but I think that we're amenable to a slight
adjustment if the board should choose that to be a better... we aren't real particular on
that particular issue.
Ms. Lee- I thought we had to be on the original footprint, that's why it's that way.
Mr. Matthews —OK, my other concern is the letter that we got from Susan Miller. Have
you spoken to this neighbor?
Mr. Bayles - Yes, we have had several conversations with her.
Mr. Matthews —And her concerns are legitimate?
Ms. Lee- Yeah, we adjusted it.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Matthews —And you are going to address that?
Mr. Bayles - Well, if you look at the letter that she had asked for, and you look at this
map, our original proposal is the green line, our original proposal was to extend the
building forward approximately four feet at the lake front side, from the existing building
line where it was, and through discussions with Mrs. Miller, we've agreed to move it
back approximately four feet, so that line no longer, the front point of the building no
longer encroaches beyond the existing building line.
Mr. Matthews —So you'll satisfy her concerns?
Mr. Bayles - I believe so, yes.
Mr. Matthews —So you'll have a happy neighbor?
Ms. Lee- Well, I have been very compromising throughout all of this. I even knocked
out a greenhouse in the front, because she didn't like the size. I've got to live with you,
we're going to be neighbors for the rest of my life, so I have to be neighborly, so that's
why we talked to her, and so we agreed in the end that if we move the whole house back
two feet, she will be satisfied. And that's what she was going to write to you, and that's
why we decide we will go ahead, and it will hamper a little bit, but it's not going to
endanger or enhance my living condition. I have been very accommodating.
Mr. Frost—So Mrs. Miller in her fax that the board received tonight, it says "if Ms. Lee
and her architect Mr. Bayles, move the structure back two feet as I was assured today
February 22nd, that they intend to do, so that it doesn't go beyond the current footprint on
the lake side, and the second story doesn't go beyond the current second story roof line
on the west like side of the house, and lake views from my windows should remain close
to what they are now, this would be acceptable to me," and Mrs. Miller is saying she
would accept that. And that is what you are saying you are doing?
Mr. Bayles - There was an interim.. it's a little confusing, but I'll try and explain. When
we drew the green line, we had no final plan, and we were just submitting to get in the
queue for this hearing. When we developed the plan further, we actually had pulled back
this line, our proposal, we had pulled it back two feet from that original green line. That
was then presented to Ms. Miller, she objected to that for her reasons, and so we agreed
to pull it back an additional two feet, which is what she's referring to, and so it's four
total, and so our current proposal now is to keep the prow of the building behind the
existing line of the front edge of the building, which is what she had asked for.
Mr. Frost—And again,just so the board is clear as they decide on this matter, the green
line on the lake side on the building sketch is moved back four foot to indicate the new
lake side park of the building.
Mr. Bayles - Right, the new footprint is outlined in red. The green outline was what we
had submitted back in January, which you can just throw in the garbage at this point.
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Frost—Now, was this based on a survey? Assuming the board in some way decides
to consider this in your favor, how could the board be assured that the placement of the
building, since you're taking down the old entirely, and putting up the new, how could
the board be assured that this location is what Mrs. Miller expects to see? If there's no
survey?
Mr. Bayles - We could give you a measured offset from the concrete retaining wall to the
front of the existing building and provide that on the site plan that's provided with the
building permit, and then you can verify that on-site, or we can have that verified
presumably by survey for the bank, I don't know if Ms. Lee has a bank involved in their
transaction.
Mr. Frost—Assuming it goes up and the outcome isn't what the neighbor expected or the
board accepted, there's a problem.
Mr. Bayles - I guess what we would do is create a letter that would say the existing front
edge of this building is this far from these fixed points and get that distributed to
everybody so they all understand that and then that can be verified in the future if anyone
has any questions.
Mr. Barney—I suppose we could also condition that any construction beyond the
foundation not occurring until we had a survey of the foundation as it stands, showing
that.
Mr. Frost—Would Mrs. Lee be willing to provide some kind of a survey of the
foundation when the new foundation is in to help certify its location?
Ms. Lee- I don't understand.
Mr. Barney—I think what we might want to see, since it's so close is that once the
foundation is constructed and before a lot of investment is made on the rest of the house,
that we have a surveyor, qualified surveyor, certify that the foundation is within the
bounds as this board may determine it should be. Of the new building, that it meets the
requirements as set forth on the plan that is being presented to the board.
Mr. Bayles - It will cost somewhere around $400.
Mr. Frost—What we're intending to do is try to ensure that what you build doesn't end
up closer to the lake and doesn't obstruct anybody's view.
Ms. Lee- Well, you can see very clearly it's not.
Mr. Barney—We're agreeing with that, but once the old building comes down, all the
physical monuments that we would be able to compare it to are gone.
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Ms. Lee- Couldn't it be suggested that the original there is on the front what is that...?
Mr. Bayles - There's a concrete retaining wall.
Ms. Lee -There is a concrete retaining wall so many feet back. —
Mr. Barney—Right, and we want somebody competent who can certify that with an
appropriate measurement, and typically we look to surveyors. If you're an engineer
maybe we could take yours, but normally we would want a surveyor to make a
determination. I have a question with the other end of the building quite frankly, how
close to the sewer line are you?
Mr. Bayles -We had the sewer line marked out. We will be probably 11 feet form the
sewer line. It's not drawn accurately here. I called your sewer department and they came
out and marked it and there's a green line. I've taken some measurements. The current
building is about 14 foot 6 inches from that sewer line now, so when we move it back
that four feet, we're still 10 feet and some change.
Mr. Barney—My map says 14 feet minus...
Mr. Bayles - 14 feet minus 4 feet is ten feet.
Mr. Barney—OK, this is probably, I would guess a 20 foot easement, that's normally
what we have.
Mr. Bayles - I asked what the minimum clearance was, and he said normally we would
ask for 10 feet. I said is there any leeway, he says, well, what are we talking about? I
said well, 8 feet, fine. So that was the word I got from ... give me a name?
Mr. Barney—Wayne, Creig?
Mr. Bayles -No.
Mr. Barney—Dan?
Mr. Bayles -pardon?
Mr. Barney—Dan? Dan Walker?
Mr. Bayles -No.
Mr. Frost—Creig Ballard?
Mr. Bayles - Last names.
Mr. Frost—Sincebaugh?
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Barney - Wayne Sincebaugh?
Mr. Bayles - Wayne Sincebaugh.
Mr. Barney—I suspect that certainly if you choose to grant this there be a condition that
there's approval from the appropriate authorities from the town, and I'm not sure Wayne
is exactly the appropriate authority. I think this is probably going to encroach into an
easement area. Actually the Town Board will sometimes grant people a license to do
that, but again, without having it fairly precisely denominated on the survey, it's a little
difficult to know.
Mr. Bayles - Well, I did get a physical, there's a green line painted out there until the
snow covers it that we measured off of,just to confirm that exact fact—and if we do take
the building and straighten it out a little bit in relationship to the lot lines that will
increase that clearance.
Mr. Matthews —What's the minimum, John?
Mr. Barney—typically, we get an easement that's 20 feet centered on wherever the line
is.
Mr. Bayles - So if we're ten feet away...
Mr. Barney—If you're ten feet away, you'd be outside the easement.
Mr. Matthews —So if he rotates the footprint...
Mr. Barney—if he rotates the footprint, it will improve the situation, assuming that they
show the line appropriately.
Mr. Bayles - I feel fairly confident that those are accurate measurements, and the ten feet
is certainly on the edge of the easement, but if the easement were 20 feet, then the ten feet
would be clear.
Mr. Frost—Mrs. Lee, I hope you understand that, and we understand that you are being
very accommodating, and this is a very small building lot, and many of the lots on the
east side of the lake are substandard in size which makes these kinds of things difficult,
so I think the board is trying to recognize the compromises you've made, but at the same
time deal with the constraints of your building lot, so...
Chairperson Sigel—So, I'll ask the other board members how they feel about the
orientation of the building. Personally I think I would like...
Mr. Niefer- I have no objection to the orientation being changed so that the lines of the
building more closely parallel the property lines.
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Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, I think that would make sense. I mean, we are supposed to try
to grant the smallest variance that we can to accomplish a given goal. So it seems to
make sense to straighten it at least some. Any other questions or comments? OK, let's
open the public hearing.
Chairperson Sigel opens the public hearing at 7:28 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel—Sir?
Mr. Thaler- My name is Richard Thaler, and up until about a year ago I owned this lot.
The second cottage, I owned 1030 East Shore drive. The house in question that Mr.
Bayles indicates he is going to tear down is one of the original cottages down on the east
side, the east shore. It belonged to the builder who built several of the... it's the one that
is closest to the lake. Cottages on each side of it are set back. This cottage happens to be
closer, and the retaining wall used to be the docking, the first site of the docking of the
ferry boats that came out of the inlet. As a matter of fact, the metal stanchion is still
embedded in this concrete wall, and historically, when I bought this property ten years
ago, I did so to maintain the historic value of the east side of the lake. I don't have any
question that Mr. Bayles has done a good job as far as the design of the cottage, it is
going to be updated from what it is presently, and probably increase the value of all of the
housing down in that area. I notice however, that there is a provision for an elevator
which is on the south side of the house, and I want to know what type of elevator it is
because of the noise level that would be generated and next to the house that I am going
to be occupying, or do occupy. I'd like to have Mr. Bayles tell us what kind of an
elevator and where the lift machinery for that elevator is going to be located.
Secondly, I would like to ask what they are going to do with the... you'll notice,
along with the house, this used to be a garage. I tore that down in order to provide extra
parking for the people who were occupying this house. It has not been used for parking,
and what happens is cars are parked out here on the roadway and it becomes difficult for
the people using the roadway. Again, I would just like to ask if that is going to be put
back into parking or if that is going to be used as it is now for garbage. Again, this is the
only house that is not parallel to the lot lines, of all the houses down there in that area.
But, other than that, I don't have any objection to what Mr. Bayles has designed.
Chairperson Sigel—Thank you, sir.
Mr. Barney—Dick, before you go, how are the other houses oriented? It's kind of
cocked on the lot, but is that consistent with how the other houses are...?
Mr. Thaler- If you'll notice the older houses, 13, 14, 15 —are the three older houses
down there. I remodeled 15 but?I did not change the footprint. The footprint is the
same. 13 is the same footprint. 14 was originally the original house down there. It is the
one that is the closest, so any visibility from my house going towards the north is blocked
to some extent by this house, and by 13 looking south.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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Mr. Frost—are the exterior walls of each house parallel to each other, or are they cocked,
so as the board deliberated...
Mr. Barney—whether to shift the back end of that house a little bit so the house winds up
being parallel.
Mr. Thaler- 14 I think it would be helpful if it was parallel to the lot lines, but again ?I
don't think it's critical, but it certainly would make everything in conformity. Everything
else is parallel.
Mr. Barney—The others are more parallel.
Mr. Frost—So what you're saying is that Mrs. Lee's proposal, which is building 14, its
exterior walls are not parallel with 13 or 15.
Mr. Thaler- That's correct, and the projection that is here that is being proposed to be
taken down, that is the closest area to my lot line. What I did is when I owned both
places, I put some trees and a garden in here. The utility is right about where the elevator
is going to be, and that's why I'm concerned about elevator noise, because that's right
next to my bedroom.
Mr. Matthews —Is the elevator something that we should be considering?
Chairperson Sigel—Well, we could ask Mr. Bayles to address that. Do you know
anything about the elevator?
Mr. Bayles -Yes, the elevator that we were proposing to use is a very bottom-of-the line
residential lift, really. It does not meet any handicapped accessibility requirements or
anything like that. It is simply a platform in an enclosure that's run by a small electric
motor which is in the cab itself. There is a track that is mounted on the inside wall that
the elevator runs up, there's a trap door in the upper floor which comes up when the
elevator is at the second floor, and then when it goes down, that closes. I can't comment
specifically on the noise, I may have some information here in the specifications, which I
do happen to have with me, but my sense is that it will make no more noise than a
residential washing machine.
Mr. Frost—probably, actually I don't know if that's a good comparison. I've seen them
in homes for handicapped accessibility, and basically electric motors are pretty quiet, I
mean they hum, but they are not loud. Unless you do have a spec that shows that some
kind of decibel, they are pretty benign.
Ms. Lee- Like a garage door opener.
Mr. Frost—I wouldn't even say that, they are very smooth running electric motors.
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Mr. Bayles - In terms of the motor, it's probably a 1/3 horsepower motor, but it wouldn't
be as noisy because there aren't all the mechanical chains and stuff.
Mr. Frost—What is the intent if it's not for handicapped accessibility?
Mr. Bayles -Well, it's for less than able accessibility, we don't have enough room to get
a wheelchair in and turn it around. It's wide enough that you could approach it in a
wheelchair by turning around and backing into it, and then operating, but it's not a
commercial elevator of any type. It would not be acceptable in a commercial installation
as an ANSI compliant elevator.
Ms. Lee- Well, I need that because I have knee problems.
Mr. Frost—The only thing I can say from my experience, is they are typically very quiet.
Ms. Lee- the elevator takes years.
Mr. Bayles - It's slow. I mean, I think it'll take about a minute to get to the second floor.
Mr. Matthews —So after all is said and done, what I think you're saying is that you are
assuring the next door neighbor that you won't be waking him up at 2:00 in the morning
with a Clang, Clang, Clang.
Mr. Bayles - I will be willing to guarantee that, yes.
Mr. Frost—You had a two part question though, Dick, one was the elevator, and what
was the other?
Chairperson Sigel—Parking issue. How many cars there are going to be?
Mr. Bayles - I am going to let Ms. Lee address these questions.
Ms. Lee- I really haven't thought much about this issue, but when I bought the house, the
broker told me that this was the house that had the most parking than any other house
around, because you can park here on the back side, you can pull in. So, I don't know, I
haven't thought about that.
Mr. Bayles - I will say that we would not be able to build any more structure without
coming to this board once again, because that would be part of our lot coverage and we
would have to request further variances.
Mr. Barney—How many units are in this house?
Mr. Bayles -Pardon?
Mr. Barney—How many units? It's a single family house?
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Mr. Bayles - It's a single family house. Two bedroom.
Chairperson Sigel—Well, there will certainly be, even with the new plan, there will
certainly be parking for at least two cars, right? Completely on the property, I would
think.
Ms. Lee- Yeah.
Chairperson Sigel—For a single family unit, it doesn't seem reasonable to require room
beyond two cars.
Mr. Frost—It looks at least, you have in your packet from County Assessment, a picture
of the property, and you also have a picture that Kristie took around here. One would
assume that they could park pretty close to the house and therefore be out of the roadway.
Do you feel comfortable with that, Mr. Thaler?
Mr. Bayles - I think if one car is in the garage, there is clearly the driveway itself to park
in, and that there is space to put a car there. At this point I think it's actually used, I think
the neighbor uses it for her garbage, but that would obviously change somewhat. I don't
remember reviewing the parking requirements in this zone. Can you clarify that?
Mr. Frost—Nothing particular.
Mr. Bayles -Nothing particular. There is at least one required per residence is there not?
Mr. Frost—Theoretically you can park in the road. I mean, for one and two family
residences, there aren't any real strong requirements for parking. I think as anyone
knows that part of East Shore drive to be able to maneuver a car on the lake side of the
railroad tracks to get into the property is not always easy if someone is parking in the
roadway, and I think that is Mr. Thaler's concern.
Mr. Bayles -Usually it doesn't allow real two-way traffic, so anyone who parks
elsewhere is creating an obstacle.
Mr. Frost—I don't know if that addresses your concern, Mr. Thaler, or not.
Mr. Thaler- We planted a couple trees in the lawn to prevent people from parking on the
lawn, and there is enough room on the garage driveway if they want to stack them, so
they don't have to park either on the lawn or out on the roadway. Again, when I first
bought the property, the part that is here was intended to be extra parking, so that you
wouldn't have cars up here and on the grass.
Chairperson Sigel—OK, any more questions at this time about Mr. Thaler's comments?
OK, anyone else wish to speak? If not, we will close the public hearing.
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Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 7:40 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel—Now, back to the issue of alignment. You are going to have—it's
going to be 7 feet at the Southwest corner, and then the setback will get progressively
greater along the Southside as you go back from the lake. It might be reasonable to
suggest, say, maintaining that 7 feet along that...
Mr. Bayles - I think that probably the easiest thing to legislate would be to suggest that
we stay parallel to the southern lot line with a minimum clearance of 7 feet or 8 feet,
whatever. I'm trying to collect my thoughts about what the actual distance is across the
lot at that point, versus the width of the house, and since it's 40 feet at that end, and 51
feet at the other end, we might make a guess that it's 48 and the width of the house... the
documents don't have the dimensions on them, does someone have one of the plans I
submitted? Can you tell me the width of the house on the shell there?
Mr. Frost—It looks like 26, 6.
Mr. Bayles -26, 6. So if we had 48 and taking out 26.5, and then you should be able to
get ten feet on the side,presumably. So we could, ?I think that in terms of, I guess what
we would like to do is maybe to leave it so that we have some parameters that we can
work within a little bit. Maybe if we maintain a minimum of 8 feet on one side, and keep
parallel to the southern lot line... could the resolution be stated that way?
Chairperson Sigel—How about... I'm just trying to be fair to both neighbors —how about
9 feet?
Mr. Bayles - 9 feet.. or, or.
Chairperson Sigel—At least nine feet.
Mr. Bayles - At least nine feet, I think that can be easily accommodated.
Chairperson Sigel—At least nine feet from either side at the western extent and then, can
you estimate what would be the same number basically at the eastern end? The way it's
drawn now, you've got about five feet where it's close on the north...
Mr. Bayles -Right, right, but I had the ability to scale, but I'm afraid without my
computer I'm at a loss.
Chairperson Sigel—You said it's 41 at the far end?
Mr. Bayles - 40 at the right-of-way, at the railroads.
Mr. Barney—Except that's probably an overstated number, because that's at a slight
angle, so it's perpendicular...
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Mr. Bayles - Right, but as is the other lot lines, and those lots are fairly parallel. [he
measures the lines]. It looks like 46 feet, if you take out 26, we would still have ten feet
on either side, so if we were 9 feet from one side, we would be 11 foot to the other side.
Mr. Barney—At the west side now, or at the east end of the building?
Mr. Bayles - At the east end of the building, it appears that the lot width is about 46 feet.
If the building is 26.5, 19 feet, so it should be about 10 foot clear to that east property
line, maybe 9 foot.
Chairperson Sigel—So it looks like it would be safe to say 8 feet at the ...
Mr. Ellsworth—West end.
Mr. Bayles - Yes, I think so.
Chairperson Sigel—9 at the west and 8 at the east?
Mr. Barney—I would make it 8 across the board. It's about 45 feet, if the scale is right at
the easterly edge of the building.
Chairperson Sigel—You think 45 at the east?
Mr. Barney—That would be 16 feet, take away 40, you don't want to lock him into
within inches...
Chairperson Sigel—Well, it seemed like the 9 at the western end actually allowed for a
number of feet either way.
[the tape is changed]
Mr. Barney—you're forcing it not to be parallel by doing it that way, whereas you could
have it line up so it's parallel at least on one side.
Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, that's true. OK. So we could just say 8 feet for the entire...
Mr. Bayles -No less than 8 feet.
Chairperson Sigel—No less than 8 feet to any side lot...
Mr. Bayles -to any side lot, and parallel to the southern.
Chairperson Sigel—And substantially parallel to the southern lot line.
Mr. Bayles -No, I think that would be fine.
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Chairperson Sigel—OK, Mike any comments?
Mr. Smith—No, I think it's just area and setbacks, so no SEQR.
Chairperson Sigel—OK, so we don't actually need to make a motion?
Mr. Smith—There's one included in there incase something changed here and we needed
it, but I think you're just dealing with the area and setbacks.
Mr. Matthews —Kirk?
Chairperson Sigel—Yeah.
Mr. Matthews —By rotating it, and doing what you're doing with the distance from the
other property, we're not causing any grief for the other neighbor and her view from the
lake?
Ms. Lee- Actually we have set the house back...[inaudible]
Mr. Barney—We're relieving the grief at one end of the house and increasing it at the
other is what we're actually doing.
Mr. Matthews —I think you're actually benefiting her more.
Mr. Barney—Yeah, because it sounds like, from what Dick was saying, that it makes it a
little more parallel to the lot lines.
Chairperson Sigel—It's possible it could make a very slight detriment, I guess, depending
on what window you're looking out, but...
Mr. Matthews —Don't see a great deal of...
Chairperson Sigel—John, now which of these advertised sections do you think we
actually have to deal with? This isn't really rebuilding, this isn't rebuilding a building the
same? Is it simpler to just grant the section 47 and 48 variances for what they want to
do? Which would just be the setbacks and the lot coverage?
Mr. Barney—I think the 47 and 48 would probably work. It actually ought to refer to our
code.
Chairperson Sigel—270-47 and 48.
Mr. Bayles - The yard regulations are 270-47 and the building area is 48.
Chairperson Sigel—Any other questions or comments? I guess I'll give a motion a try
here. I will move to grant the appeal of Lee Lee, requesting a variance from the
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requirements of Article VII, Sections 270-47 and 270-48, to be permitted to construct a
single-family residence with non-conforming setbacks and exceeding lot coverage limits
at 1032 East Shore Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 19.-2-14, Lakefront Zone.
With the following requirements: That the...
Mr. Barney—Can I make some suggestions here?
Chairperson Sigel—Please.
Mr. Barney—The first one is that we get a current survey showing the location of the
front of the existing building, relative to the concrete wall...
Chairperson Sigel—westernmost edge.
Mr. Barney—westernmost edge, with the actual dimension, and that that be provided
prior to the issuance of any building permit. And that it conform to what is being shown
on the plans that has been presented here. Then, a second condition be prior to
construction beyond the foundation that the building code enforcement officer be
provided with an as-built survey showing that the new foundation is no closer to the
concrete retaining wall than the current structure is. I would suggest a third condition
that this be limited to a single family house because of the parking area. A fourth
condition that prior to any construction and the issuance of a building permit that any
required approvals from Town officials be obtained for any possible encroachment of the
rear of the house, or I should say probably more accurately, the northeast corner of the
house, onto any sewer or water easements be obtained. And then the fifth condition,
which I think you just talked about is that there be no side yards less than 8 feet in width
from the side of the structure to the adjacent side yard line. [He confers with Mr. Frost]
The assistant town attorney [laughter] has indicated that we can delete the section on the
single family house because it's a substandard lot, and he's right, there is a section of our
zoning ordinance that prohibits anything other than a single family house on a
substandard lot.
Chairperson Sigel—OK.
Mr. Ellsworth—Don't you have to indicate that we're also trying to make it parallel to
that south lot line.
Mr. Barney—Do you want to add that? Sure.
Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, to make it...
Mr. Barney—Substantially parallel....
Chairperson Sigel—Substantially parallel to the south lot line. OK. And add the finding
that the requirements for an area variance have been satisfied.
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Mr. Barney—And the additional condition, which I think it implicit, but it probably ought
to be expressed, that the construction not be any closer to the west line of the property
than the current existing structure is.
Chairperson Sigel—OK. Now we didn't mention, or we didn't state an exact lot
coverage value. We should probably put in that we are granting a variance for lot
coverage not to exceed, say, 18.5%. Ernie specified 18.2.
Mr. Barney—Or, more particularly, that the house be constructed substantially in
accordance with the building plans and dimensions that were shown as part of the
application.
Chairperson Sigel—OK. Second?
Mr. Ellsworth—I'll second.
Chairperson Sigel—All in favor?
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 007: Lee C. Lee, 1032 East Shore Dr, Town of
Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 19.-2-14
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Harry Ellsworth.
RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of Lee C. Lee, Owner, Ernie
Bayles, Agent/Appellant, requesting a variance from the requirements of Article
VII, Sections 270-47 and 270-48, to be permitted to construct a single-family
residence with non-conforming building setbacks and exceeding lot coverage
limits at 1032 East Shore Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 19.-2-14,
Lakefront Zone.
FINDINGS: The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied.
CONDITIONS:
1. A survey be provided showing the location of the front of the current
building in relation to the westernmost edge of the concrete wall prior to
the issuance of a Building Permit, and that it conform to what is
presented in the applicant's plan.
2. Prior to construction beyond the foundation, the Zoning Officer shall be
provided with an as-built survey showing that the new foundation is no
closer to the concrete retaining wall than the current structure is.
3. Prior to any construction and the issuance of a Building permit, any
required approvals from Town of Ithaca officials be obtained for any
possible encroachment of the northeast corner of the house onto any
sewer or water easements.
4. There shall be no side yards less than 8 feet in width from the side of the
structure to the adjacent side yard line.
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5. The building shall be constructed substantially parallel to the South lot
line.
6. The construction shall not be any closer to the west line of the property
than the existing structure is.
7. The house shall be constructed substantially in accordance with the
building plans and dimensions that were shown as part of the
application.
8. Lot coverage may not exceed 18.5%.
The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
NAYS: NONE
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
Mr. Niefer—Do you have to do the environmental?
Chairperson Sigel—No, because it was just area variances, Mike said we didn't have to.
Mr. Barney—Single family house with area variance don't require...
Chairperson Sigel—So were you voting in favor, Jim?
Mr. Niefer—Yes.
Chairperson Sigel—OK, unanimous. OK, Thank you.
Ms. Lee- May I ask a question?
Chairperson Sigel—Sure.
Ms. Lee- Throughout this whole process, it's been very frustrating to me, because it
seems I am the one that gives everything. I got nothing from our negotiation, and I, in a
way, resent it. How much does the owner of the property... what rights do we have?
This looks like my neighbor has all the rights.
Mr. Frost—I think as I said before, this is a very substandard lot, and the board could
basically deny your request and I think they were trying to accommodate you while
accommodating the neighbors. If you're neighbor came and wanted to build something
to their house that took away your view, you'd probably be concerned too.
Ms. Lee- What are the views? They didn't even ask that. The views are the bathroom
view and the bedroom view. That's all she was objecting to, so you tell me. I mean, it's
over, that's...
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Frost—I think fortunately you got your variance.
Ms. Lee- It's just very annoying because here I've got to worry about building this house
so she doesn't lose part of her bedroom view and part of her small window for her
bathroom. I don't want to say anything because I think I'm getting mad.
Mr. Barney—You're not succeeding. So, careful, they may rethink it.
Ms. Lee- OK, thank you anyway.
Mr. Frost—Your real challenges will be faced when they start building.
Ms. Lee- What?
Mr. Frost—Your real challenges will be faced when you start building.
Ms. Lee- Well, that's true...
Mr. Frost—Feel free to call me tomorrow and we can talk more about it.
Ms. Lee- Thank you. Thanks. I want to shake everyone's hand for voting yes. OK,
thank you.
APPEAL of South Hill Business Campus,Andrew Sciarabba,Appellant, requesting
a variance from the requirements of Article XX, Section 270-158 to be permitted to
allow a food catering operation within an Industrial Zone,located at 950 Danby
Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 39-1-1.2. Said zone does not specifically allow
such a use.
Chairperson Sigel—Hello. Good evening.
Ms. Luciano - I'm Linda Luciano, I'm the property manager at South Hill business
campus. What we're asking for is a use variance to be allowed to rent space to a catering
operation. The building is zoned industrial right now, and the industrial zone does not
allow for restaurants and cafeterias or similar uses. So, if the caterer is seen as in that
category, then we would need a variance to be allowed to rent the space.
Mr. Frost—There is an existing dining facility and an existing commercial type kitchen in
the building.
Chairperson Sigel—Before we go further, I just want to state my conflict with this case...
Mr. Ellsworth—This is your night.
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Chairperson Sigel—which is that Mr. Sciarabba is my accountant.
Mr. Sciarabba- He gets no discounts, believe me.
Chairperson Sigel—And he overcharges me regularly.
Mr. Barney—Also, I should indicate that our office has represented I think Mr. Sciarabba
in connection with the acquisition of this property. And I think another partner in my
office is representing the financing group or the investment group or whatever. So I
should let you know that there is that potential conflict as well.
Chairperson Sigel—Your advice is tainted.
Mr. Barney—It is biased as usual.
Chairperson Sigel—OK, I don't think my conflict will affect my voting in this case. So,
as I suspect you are probably aware, receiving a use variance is a very strict test, and it
requires some kind of financial documentation, essentially, showing that you can't get a
reasonable return from the property, or I suppose in this case, maybe just that section of
the building. I don't know if that would be appropriate?
Mr. Barney—I think it's a reasonable return for the whole property.
Chairperson Sigel—Without the granting of the variance, and you do provide some
anecdotal evidence of the amount that it would cost you to renovate it, and I just want to
ask you if you can expound on that, if you have any further details?
Ms. Luciano - Yeah, if I can pass this out. This is a letter from the building architect who
came and looked at the space, and gave us a description of what would need to be done if
we weren't allowed to use it as a kitchen facility and had to bring it up to building
standards. And also a break out of cost from the contractor that does most of our work
there detailing what the exact cost would be.
Chairperson Sigel—OK.
[board reads the handout]
Chairperson Sigel—Do you maybe want to walk us through the letter and hit the
highlights?
Ms. Luciano - Well, what they're saying there is with the demolition being at least
$30,000 and another$72,000 in construction fees, and then if you figure in an estimated
contingency and professional design services, you come up to $115,000 to convert this
space to a standard office type space. That figures out to about $66.00 a square foot, and
with a standard rent of$12.00 a square foot, it would take 5 and a half years just to break
even. So we are saying that is a hardship. We probably couldn't rent the space out.
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Matthews —My question, if I may have a question? The zoning doesn't permit a
cafeteria or a restaurant there?
Mr. Barney—It does incidental to another use there, it is permitted as an independent
stand-alone use.
Mr. Matthews —Previous to this, there was a cafeteria there.
Chairperson Sigel—Right.
Mr. Matthews —They don't want to turn this into a restaurant at the present time. I guess
I don't understand where there is a problem for the community if it is turned into a
catering unit, and I see an advantage if it in fact is turned into some sort of a restaurant
for the occupants of the building at some future date when they rent out all the space to
the industrial sites and businesses that want to go in there. You wouldn't have the traffic
on the highways because people wouldn't be leaving the building to go have their lunch.
I don't understand the problem.
Chairperson Sigel—Well, the problem, I mean, I agree with you, I also don't foresee any
problem, any impact on the community if say we allow this catering business there, and
like you said, the hope that in the future, as their occupancy grows, if this business also
serves food for the other tenants of the building, would, as you said, be a plus as well.
The problem is just that, unfortunately, the variance they need to do this is a use variance,
and it is a variance that has a harder test to meet, which is that you are supposed to show
that you couldn't get a reasonable return from the property otherwise, without getting the
variance. And therefore you need the variance to get a reasonable return. It's not the
same as an are variance, where the test is just what is the benefit to the applicant versus
the detriment to the community.
Mr. Barney—The problem is that the determination as to what's permitted in what
particular zone is normally a legislative function of the Town Board. There are safety
valve, I might call it that, that this board represents, where the legislative determination
may not take into account a particular set of circumstances which has the effect of
depriving the owner of the property from any reasonable return on the property. Then,
once that's demonstrated to your satisfaction, you can grant a use variance.
Mr. Matthews —Why is the test higher than something else they want to do, why? Is
there something detrimental to the community because it's a restaurant?
Mr. Barney—That's the law. It's not a local law, it's a state law.
Mr. Matthews —Well, you're a lawyer, so would you explain to me why the law is so
high?
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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Mr. Barney—Well, yes. The zoning is permitted as long as it doesn't effect an
unconstitutional taking of someone's property. So, you can zone for example a property
and say you can't put any gas stations there. This is the typical situation in fact you had
100 years ago, when they first put zoning in. You cannot have any gas stations, but
you've got somebody who has a gas station when you change that zoning at that point in
time. So, you have a gas station, the gas station is there. You can't legislate that out of
existence, because that would be a taking. He has an investment, he has a right to make a
return on it. By the same token, if you legislate in a way that precludes the property from
being used for any purpose that develops a reasonable rate of return then you have a
taking. So the Board of Zoning Appeals is given the authority that if you have that
situation, that you cannot make a reasonable return on that property, and therefore you
would have the risk of having the statute being declared unconstitutional because it is
taking people's property without the compensation for it. The board is given the
authority to vary the provisions of the ordinance to allow a use that enables the person to
make a reasonable return. But it is the use issue because normally the use that is
permitted is determined by the Town Board or by the Legislative body, the City Council
or whatever the body is, it is not determined by the Board of Zoning Appeals. The Board
of Zoning Appeals is only determining that, in this particular case, that is applied to this
particular situation, they can't make a reasonable return, therefore we are authorized by
law to permit them to do something that's not otherwise permitted under the ordinance.
But it's not your business as a BZA to kind of randomly pick and choose the things you
think ought to be appropriate or that you don't have a problem with. That's not your role,
your role is to determine if this test has been met of insufficient return. In which event,
you have the right to grant it, if the test is not met, you don't have the right to grant it.
It's that simple.
Mr. Frost—On the other hand though, the Zoning Board does have the authority to
interpret the zoning ordinance. So, as an example, in our ordinance for industrial zone,
we allow any lawful manufacturing activity. So, let's say they were canning vegetables
in this place as an industrial use, I don't think there would be any argument that this is a
permitted use. They are canning vegetables. One of the positions I took at one point
with this is that manufacturing means the preparation of something. And since no one is
eating in the restaurant or the cafeteria there, they are basically manufacturing food and
putting it in tin pans and taking if off-site. So at one point I thought that catering was a
permitted use because you are basically manufacturing food and taking off-site. There
was some debate with that, and the result was that they are here before you tonight asking
for the variance. I suppose it's not impossible at this point to make a determination that
catering is permitted. I'm going out on a limb here a little bit, but...
Mr. Sciarabba- Could I address the rate of return and the feasibility of this project, so
that you all have a sense of what we have in front of us here. We've got a 275,000 square
foot building, of which we have around 65,000 square feet leased up. We bought the
building for cash. We could not put a mortgage on because it's got environmental
problems, which you may have read about in the papers. The building [inaudible] may
depend upon how attractive and how much demand there is for space in the community
for that. And certainly, I've been involved in commercial real estate for a long time, and
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
I don't have one building in my portfolio or in my client's that have gone without
significant vacancy for some period of time. It takes a while in this community to fill
commercial space, especially when [inaudible] overall, there's no retail out here, there's
no real commercials, manufacturing offices, that sort of thing. So the building for us to
lease wherever we can to help us get the [inaudible] dollars to keep the project going is
important to us, OK? To tear that space out of there to use doesn't make any sense we
don't have the demand for that space from anybody else. We have about $3.5 million to
spend on the remediation of the property over the next couple years. We're hoping that's
a good estimate, so from a legislative point, every lease is very important to us, right
now. This is very, very small certainly. And if we look at some of the prospects we have
for other tenants right now, those are all small tenants. 1000 square foot, 1500 square
feet. So, we certainly feel that there is a financial hardship, if we can't lease any of this
space right now. Five years from now it might be a different story, but right now, it's
very important to us.
Mr. Barney—Andy, what's the term of the lease you're looking at?
Mr. Sciarabba- One year, with an option for two.
Mr. Barney—A potential three years?
Mr. Sciarabba- Yup.
Mr. Barney—One way the board may look at it is a temporary use variance for a period
of three years, which would basically get you your lease right now, and based on what
you're saying, based on right now, the economic difficulties are [inaudible] and then take
another look at it in three years, and that wouldn't necessarily foreclose getting it
renewed in three years, but you'll have to make the economic pitch at that point in time if
you still would need it.
Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, that might be reasonable. If at some point you were full
otherwise, then maybe the economic argument may not be as strong as to say not
renovating the space back into space that would then allow a conforming tenant.
Mr. Sciarabba- If we were full, I would suspect that the caterer would likely to be able to
have a restaurant for the tenants of the building...
Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, and then that would be a different situation that then we can
take a look at.
Mr. Sciarabba- I also like Andy's argument too.
Chairperson Sigel—You're not so fond of that, John?
Mr. Barney—No, I'm not fond of that argument.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel—Well, I don't feel strongly about trying to make that interpretation, so
I will yield to our counsel's...
Mr. Barney—Well, it's your call, not mine. The ordinance has some very specific
revisions about restaurants and saying non, and it talks about I think in a couple places
that allows a accessory use, a cafeteria or a lunchroom but not as a direct use, and then it
specifically says in the industrial zone, the following uses are prohibited, and one of them
is a restaurant of any nature, except for a cafeteria or other similar facility. Granted, a
catering operation is not a true restaurant, since you have people coming in and sitting
down, but it's close enough, that I guess if I were pushed I would argue pretty
strenuously that that's what they were looking to prohibit. But, I think what we're
talking about here, might work get over the hump here immediately of getting the
authority to execute this particular lease, and in the interim period, I strongly recommend,
Andy, that we take a look at amending the ordinance itself, and letting the legislature
make the determination whether catering... because I don't think, quite frankly, you'd
have a great deal of difficulty to get the Town Board to say catering would be a permitted
use there, in which event this issue would go out the window in three years.
Mr. Sciarabba- Some other things we would like to do is approach the Town Board
about adding to the zone the allowed uses of the office park zone, which would then
allow that.
Mr. Barney—Right, yeah.
Mr. Niefer—Approximately what percentage of the building is presently occupied?
Mr. Sciarabba- About 27%, 28%right now including our office?
Mr. Matthews —Is there a definition of industrial? You know I'm thick as pea soup
sometimes.
Mr. Barney—what's allowed is defined basically by what's permitted and what's not.
And it allows any lawful manufacturing activity or any lawful activity permitted as of
right in a light industrial zone. And then it goes onto list. But, notwithstanding that,
several items are prohibited, including restaurants and motels and hotels and adult
entertainment businesses, among other things.
Mr. Frost—I went into the dictionary and got the dictionary definition of manufacturing.
Mr. Matthews —That's probably different from Ithaca Zoning. Again, you know I'm
Columbo on this board, I ask these silly questions.
Mr. Barney—You ask good questions.
Mr. Matthews —If someone has a business at that site and they take computers and repair
them and take them back to the people's homes. What's the difference between fixing a
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
computer and bringing it back to someone's home, as opposed to fixing a vegetable and
bringing it to somebody's party.
Mr. Barney—Well, I think you have to think in terms of what is traditional
manufacturing and light assembly and that sort of thing. In a light industrial zone, light
assembly is a permitted use, and by virtue of that it is also a permitted use in the
industrial zone.
Mr. Matthews —So I can't become legal tonight and say that you are preparing a steak
dinner for someone is not the same as light assembly.
Mr. Barney—I guess I would have to ask you the question: Is preparing a steak dinner
more analogous to light assembly or more analogous to being a restaurant? And I guess I
don't eat computers. I don't eat a lot of steak either, for that matter, but I think you're
probably closer to that line then you are to the computer.
Mr. Matthews —I'm trying to stretch here somewhere.
Mr. Barney—More power to you. I don't make these decisions here, these are your
decisions to make. I'm only giving you my view of law.
Mr. Frost—Usually if our ordinance doesn't provide a definition, that's when I go to the
dictionary.
Mr. Matthews —Pardon?
Mr. Frost—Usually if our ordinance does not provide a definition, specifically, I will go
to the dictionary. It's the only other definition we have.
Mr. Matthews —Is that official, that we use Webster's Collegiate dictionary for definition
of a zoning practice?
Mr. Barney—If you lack a definition you are to use the term that is commonly
understood.
Chairperson Sigel—OK, well let's try to move along a little bit. Mike, any comments on
the environmental assessment report?
Mr. Smith—The only think I mentioned in there is the accessory permitted use of the
cafeteria lunchrooms seems to have similar impacts and requirements for parking traffic,
deliveries hours that type of thing.
Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, seems like they have plenty of parking. OK, any other
questions, comments from the board right now? OK. We'll open the public hearing at
this time.
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Chairperson Sigel opens the public hearing at 8:16 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel—Anyone wish to comment about this case? If not, we'll close the
public hearing.
Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 8:17 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel—And I will make a motion on the environmental assessment. I will
move in the appeal of South Hill business campus to make a finding of a negative
environmental impact based on the environmental assessment form prepared by Town
staff dated February 21, 2005. Second?
Mr. Niefer—Second.
Chairperson Sigel—All in favor?
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 008: ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT : South
Hill Business Campus, 950 Danby Road, Tax Parcel No. 39.-1-1.2
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by James Niefer.
RESOLVED that this Board makes a negative determination of environmental
significance in the appeal of South Hill Business campus, Andrew Sciarabba,
appellant, based upon the Environmental Assessment Form prepared by Town
staff dated February 21, 2005.
The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
NAYS: None
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
STATE OF NEW YORK)
COUNTY OF TOMPKINS) SS:
TOWN OF ITHACA-
Chairperson Sigel—Ron? Are you voting? Are you against?
Mr. Krantz—I'm not happy with that.
Chairperson Sigel—With the environmental impact?
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Krantz—Yeah.
Chairperson Sigel—OK. Are you voting against it?
Mr. Krantz—Yes, I'm voting against it.
Chairperson Sigel—Yeah,please expound.
Mr. Krantz—It may be stretching it a little bit, but it seems to me that you have a
property here that is only rented 27%, that is going to be used for light industry, and I
don't know that that is not going to create some pollution which is going to contaminate a
kitchen. It may be pushing it a little bit and stretching it, but I think that's a factor. We
don't even know what's going to be in the rest of the building.
Chairperson Sigel—Well, it has presumably been safe when run as a cafeteria for people
who worked at the building in it's former uses, but I agree, I think it's a good point.
Mr. Krantz—Yeah, I'm not ready to hang my hat on that completely, frankly. But it
would be a concern.
Mr. Barney—I think you can be sure that any catering service is governed in part by the
health department, and they come down and stick their thermometers in food and do all
of the things they do in a restaurant to make sure there is not a contamination or a
problem that way. So it's outside our scope obviously, we don't do that kind of
regulating. I would guess that that's any catering establishment, am I correct in that?
Mr. Matthews —So the health department would answer these concerns?
Mr. Barney—I assume if they came down and saw dust filtering down from someplace
upstairs onto the food, that would be the end of the catering business for a while.
Ms. Holtzpower- Can I answer that question?
Chairperson Sigel—Sure,just approach a microphone and tell us your name please.
Ms. Holtzpower-Hi, I'm Stephanie Holtzpower(sp?), I own Serendipity catering, and I
have approached Andrew Sciarabba to rent the facility, and I've talked to Carol Chase at
the health department, and the kitchen is fine, and they feel like they would like us to
move ahead with putting in our application for the kitchen. There is no issue that she
sees with contamination within the kitchen.
Mr. Barney—And she comes down and takes a look, or somebody from the health
department does?
Ms. Holtzpower-Yes, there is constant, constant reviews of the kitchen.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Frost—I hate to say this. 20 years ago, I worked for the health department, and in
fact inspected the cafeteria and it was operating at NCR, so it's a routine.
Mr. Barney—I don't know if that assuages your concern or not.
Mr. Krantz—Yeah, I guess. I think it could conceivably be an issue, but it is certainly
unlikely to be one, and there are some safeguards obviously.
Chairperson Sigel—Changing your vote?
Mr. Krantz—Sure.
Chairperson Sigel—OK. And if there are no further questions or comments, I will move
to grant the appeal of South Hill Business Campus, Andrew Sciarabba, Appellant,
requesting a variance from the requirements of Article XX, Section 270-158 to be
permitted to allow a food catering operation within an Industrial Zone, located at 950
Danby Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 39-1-1.2. Said zone does not specifically
allow such a use, with the finding that the requirements for a use variance have been
satisfied by the applicant, with the condition that this variance be limited to a period of
three years from ... are they starting very soon?
Mr. Sciarabba- The lease they agreed to is about approval, for various we can say March
1, which is tomorrow.
Chairperson Sigel—OK, for a period of 3 years beginning on March 1st, 2005. Any
other?
Mr. Barney—I think you want to make your finding with respect to meeting the
conditions or the requirements for a use variance, that based on the information submitted
tonight and that this project is in its infancy, and that at this juncture the building is not
very fully leased, that for the next two or three years, it looks like it may be difficult to
obtain a reasonable return. If they had to do the renovations and the like. So that that's
the reason you're giving a time limited variance.
Mr. Matthews —So what happens after the third year?
Mr. Barney—After the third year, they have a choice. Well, a couple of things, as you
may have heard, my recommendation to Andy was within that three year period,
somebody come in and alter the ordinance, so we get rid of the limitation. They can have
a catering as a matter of right or at least on a special permit basis. But if that doesn't
happen at the end of the three years, they either have to move out and stop the catering or
come back to this board and this board can take a look and see if the economics justify
continuing it for a period beyond three years. That's not unheard of-we've had
situations, I think the one that went on the longest was a parking lot up at Cornell, where
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 28, 2005
APPROVED MINUTES
this board gave a variance for a temporary parking lot that was renewed at periodic
intervals and I think it lasted for about seven years before they finally closed it down.
Mr. Matthews —Will that three year temporary permit chill the tenant who wants to move
in there?
Mr. Barney—I can't speak for the tenant obviously, but I think in the grand scheme of
things it's a realistic possibility that the catering would be a permitted use if an
application was made to the Town Board to alter the zoning ordinance and stuff. I can't
speak for the Town Board and I can't guarantee that, but they seem to be pretty
reasonable about these things, and I don't know that there's a reason that they would
want to insist that catering could not occur there.
Chairperson Sigel—Call a vote on the motion, or a second on the motion.
Mr. Niefer—Second.
Chairperson Sigel—All in favor?
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 009: South Hill Business Campus, 950 Danby
Road, Tax Parcel No. 39.-1-1.2
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by James Niefer.
RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of South Hill Business Campus,
Andrew Sciarabba, Appellant, requesting a variance from the requirements of
Article XX, Section 270-158 to be permitted to allow a food catering operation
within an Industrial Zone, located at 950 Danby Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel
No. 39-1-1.2. Said zone does not specifically allow such a use.
FINDINGS:
1. The requirements for a use variance have been satisfied based on the
information submitted tonight.
2. This project is in its infancy and the building is not fully leased and for
the next two or three years it looks like it may be difficult to obtain a
reasonable return.
CONDITIONS: This variance shall be limited to three years, beginning
March 1, 2005.
The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
NAYS: NONE
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel—OK. Thanks.
Mr. Sciarabba- Thank you.
APPEAL of John and Ida Wolff,Appellants, requesting an approval under Article
IX, Section 270-69 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance to be allowed to have a
psychotherapy office in a home located at 145 Honness Lane, Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No. 58-2-39.10, Medium Density Residential Zone. Home occupations are
allowed only with the approval of the Zoning Board.
Chairperson Sigel—Good evening.
Ms. Wolff- Good evening, my name is Ida Wolff. I am a psychiatric social worker, and I
am here to ask for your approval to do psychotherapy in 145 Honness Lane.
Chairperson Sigel—OK. This is going to be... the actual office that you use is in the
basement, is that right?
Ms. Wolff- There is an apartment in the lower level of the house, and those are the
rooms that I am going to use.
Chairperson Sigel—And you said you are just going to have one person visiting at a time.
Ms. Wolff- With the exception of when I do couple therapy where two people come, the
couple comes. But basically most people come for individual therapy.
Chairperson Sigel—Does your property, is there room for parking... say a couple comes
and they drive separately, is there room for two cars?
Ms. Wolff- Yes, there is a two car garage, and behind that there is room for at least four
more cars.
Greg—My name is Greg [last name inaudible], I'm her real estate broker.
Chairperson Sigel—OK.
Greg - There's probably parking for ten cars. You can probably put six cars stacked in
the driveway, and then two in the garage.
Chairperson Sigel—OK. It seems pretty straightforward. Does anyone have any
questions?
Mr. Krantz—It seems certainly reasonable.
Mr. Niefer—What would your normal hours be for seeing people?
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Ms. Wolff- I usually start at 10 in the morning.
Chairperson Sigel— 10 until 5 or 6?
Ms. Wolff- Five. Five or six. It really is dependant on the availability of the clients.
Some of them work, so they have to come.
Mr. Niefer—How many days a week?
Ms. Wolff- Right now I'm working something like three days a week. OK, let me put
that... I have a number of clients who would take me three days a week, but not all of
them area able to come and see me within three days, so it may be spread out over five
days, but I won't be seeing the same number. I usually don't see people Saturdays and
Sundays.
Mr. Matthews —How would the cars park in the back of that yard? Is there a driveway
going back there?
Ms. Wolff- There's a driveway in the front.
Greg—The driveway is actually on the front corner, and there's a walkway that goes
around the house and comes down the side, and then there's an entrance on the lower,
southwest corner of the property, on the sidewalk coming around from the garage
entrance.
Mr. Matthews —OK, so you would park out front and walk around.
Chairperson Sigel—Is it possible that you would see people in the evening? Say after
dinner time?
Ms. Wolff- I haven't done that, for psychotherapy, no.
Chairperson Sigel—OK. And is it possible that you might see people on the weekend?
Ms. Wolff- Sometimes. I have seen people on the weekends, but that is not my regular.
This is if they are having some kind of crisis or emergency.
Chairperson Sigel—OK.
Mr. Matthews —Neighbors? Have you spoken to the neighbors at all about this?
Ms. Wolff- We are not in this property yet. This is the property that we are buying, and
we are not moving into this property until maybe in May.
Mr. Matthews —So you don't know what the neighbors think about this.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Greg—Right now the space is being used as an art studio...
Mr. Ellsworth—I'm a neighbor, I live across from the church. I don't have a problem
with it.
Ms. Wolff- You know which property this is.
Greg—We've spoken to one neighbor.
[laughter].
Ms. Wolff- I have actually spoken to one neighbor who lives across the street, 146
Honness Lane. He said that there would be no problem, so long as we are not building
any new structures or a parking lot, which we are not going to do.
Mr. Matthews —If Harry says it's OK, I'm not can't argue with that.
Chairperson Sigel—I don't foresee how there could be much problem with one or two
people at a time coming. It sounds like the applicant wouldn't be opposed if we limited
the time say to between 9 and 6. And that's maybe all I would suggest. Mike any
comments?
Mr. Smith—The one thing I was going to ask was about signage. I didn't see any
mention about that if there are going to be any signs or directions or anything like that.
Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, were you planning to put a sign out?
Ms. Wolff- You mean my name? No, I have never used that in 18 years of doing
business. There might be a little arrow to direct people to the office.
Chairperson Sigel—OK.
Mr. Barney—Have you conducted this kind of business in another home somewhere
else?
Ms. Wolff- Currently, since 1987. Since 1987 I have been doing private practice in my
current home.
Mr. Barney—Which is not this building.
Ms. Wolff- Which is not this building, it's at 109 West Upland Road.
Mr. Barney—In the Village of Cayuga Heights?
Greg—That's correct?
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Barney—And there's no signs or anything there?
Chairperson Sigel—A sign is permitted right?
Mr. Frost—If it's permitted by the, as a permitted use, which this would be if it got the
approval, I think it's up to 6 square foot now, and then directional signs are exempt from
the regulation.
Chairperson Sigel—I don't see a particular reason to exclude a sign if we were to
approve it. I mean a small sign is allowed by the sign ordinance seems reasonable to me.
If she wanted to.
Chairperson Sigel opened the public hearing at 8:30p.m. With no persons present to be
heard, Chairperson Sigel closed the public hearing at 8:31 p.m.
Chairperson Sigel—If there are no further questions, comments, I will move to make a
negative determination of environmental significance in the appeal of John and Ida Wolf,
requesting approval under Article IX, Section 270-69 of the Town Zoning Ordinance, be
allowed to have a psychotherapy office at 145 Honness Lane. Second?
Mr. Krantz—Second.
Chairperson Sigel—All in favor?
Board—Aye.
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 010: ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT : John
and Ida Wolff, 145 Honness Lane, Tax Parcel No. 58.-2-39.10
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Ronald Krantz.
RESOLVED that this Board makes a negative determination of environmental
significance in the appeal of John and Ida Wolff, appellants, based upon the
Environmental Assessment Form prepared by Town staff dated February 17,
2005.
The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
NAYS: None
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Sigel—Okay and I will move to grant special approval to John and Ida Wolf
under Article IX, Section 270-69 of the Town Zoning Ordinance, be allowed to have a
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 28, 2005
APPROVED MINUTES
psychotherapy office in a home located at 145 Honness Lane, Tax Parcel 58.-2-39.10,
Medium Density Residential Zone with the finding that the requirements for a special
approval have been satisfied in regard to a home occupation and with the one condition
that clients be seen only between the hours of 9 a.m. and 6 p.m. Second?
Mr. Niefer—Second.
Chairperson Sigel—All in favor?
Board—Aye.
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 011: John and Ida Wolff, 145 Honness Lane,
Tax Parcel No. 58.-2-39.10
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by James Niefer.
RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of John and Ida Wolff, Appellants,
requesting an approval under Article IX, Section 270-69 of the Town of Ithaca
Zoning Ordinance to be allowed to have a psychotherapy office in a home
located at 145 Honness Lane, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 58-2-39.10,
Medium Density Residential Zone. Home occupations are allowed only with the
approval of the Zoning Board.
FINDINGS: The requirements for a special approval have been satisfied.
CONDITIONS: Clients shall only be seen between the hours of 9:00 a.m.
and 6:00 p.m.
The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
NAYS: NONE
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
APPEAL of Conifer Realty, LLC, Appellant, Ray Wetherbee, Agent, requesting
variances from Article XXV, Section 270-205 to enlarge a non-conforming multiple
residence building with additional living space at the Ellis Hollow Senior
Apartments,located at 1028 Ellis Hollow Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 62-2-
1.124, Multiple Residence Zone. Said existing building encroaches on building
setback limits from property lines. Additional variances from Article XII, Sections
270-104, 270-106, 270-107, and 270-111 to exceed setback limits, building coverage
in relation to lot size, and to allow a waste receptacle to be located within a front
yard buffer zone are also requested. A variance from Chapter 221, Section 221-6 of
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 28, 2005
APPROVED MINUTES
the Sign Law is requested to be permitted to have a second freestanding sign on the
property (single sign limit).
Tim Fournier, Owner of Conifer Realty
I am Tim Fournier. I am one of the owners of Conifer Realty, which is the owner of Ellis
Hollow Senior Apartments, 183 E Main St, Rochester NY. And with me this evening is
Mr. Roger Langley on my right, a New York State registered architect with NH
Architecture and Mr. Raymond Wetherbee, a project coordinator with us at Conifer
Realty.
Just a couple of comments are you want and then I can turn it over to the architect
if that is helpful. Probably many of you are familiar with Ellis Hollow Senior
Apartments, built in 1973 on the East Hill right next to the Plaza on Ellis Hollow Road.
The building was built in 1973. Its tired and in need of really extensive rehabilitation to
extend the useful life to provide affordable housing now for these seniors for the next 30
years. We were fortunate to receive a federal tax credit award this past year from the
New York State Division of Housing Community Renewal that will allow us to do about
a $3 million complete rehabilitation at the project. Some of the rehab improvements will
be, one very importantly and its part of the addition that we are proposing, we will be
able to include an elevator for this two-story building, which in 1973 built as senior
housing did not include an elevator. Energy conversion from electric to gas. Windows,
siding, roofing, gutters, new kitchens, new baths, common areas as well.
In addition, we are providing a new community area. We have received
conditional final site plan approval for this conditioned on the variances that are
necessary here. This addition will also now include a computer room, a wellness/fitness
facility, a doctor's office and a larger more functional community space. Our joint
venture partner in this is Better Housing for Tompkins County and they will be assisting
us with providing the supportive services for the seniors to, again, allow them to live
independent longer. I think probably the most important thing here is that this proposed
addition is not for the creation of more living units, but rather to provide a space that
allows us to deliver these services to these seniors to again, our motto really is to allow
them to live independently longer at affordable rents. With that, I will turn it over to Mr.
Langley,just to go through the variances that we are requesting.
Roger Langley, NH Architecture
Just very quickly, a brief explanation of the existing building. It was constructed as a u-
shape building with these two fronting sides. The majority of the tenant spaces, their
living quarters, there are four units I believe on the second floor above what is currently
the office and community space. Our goal is to create a new entry element including
common spaces to improve the accessibility in the building as Tim mentioned. Providing
an elevator to take the tenants up to the second floor level. Currently there is a stair lift
over in one of the stairways, which really isn't that functional for a wheelchair bound
person to move from floor to floor, and it being a senior's development that is very
critical to provide these days. Also, this new addition will house all the community type
facilities. A larger, more grandiose community space so that the tenants have a spot
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 28, 2005
APPROVED MINUTES
where the majority of them can all meet together rather than right now it has gotten
limited use to a little quadrance over there. Its got low ceilings, kind of dark, balconies
very little, exterior exposure, no daylight, things like that. We are trying to create a very
open and inviting community space so that these people have a location where they come
and gather together and sit and chat with each other. Also, a computer room with access
to the Internet and just being on a fixed income some cannot afford computers,provide
that service for them. A doctor's office off to the side here. A convenient spot for a
doctor to come in a see a senior resident without them having to get in a bus or find some
transportation to try to get to see a doctor. Replacing the office area and providing a little
conference room so that if office staff needs to meet with somebody who is planning on
moving in or their family,just have a nice little convenient conference area.
The two far ends are the more mundane necessary functions of mechanical
spaces, trash collection, and things like that. What we are proposing to do is create trash
collection in all four corners of the building making it easier for the tenants to be able to
get to a spot without carrying the trash all the way down this long corridor. This way it is
in the four corners of the building and very convenient for them to dispose of the trash
coming down into shoots at the first floor level. That way it can easily come out and go
across the way to what is proposed in corner is a dumpster location and then in the
opposite corner a dumpster location making it easier for the maintenance people to gather
trash and get it out quickly so that they don't have to bring it all the way through the
building.
One of the rooms providing HVAC needs because we are replacing the electric
baseboard heat. We need a location to provide boilers for the facility. Of course we need
a fairly big size because there are 104 units and its decent sized equipment so we need
that area for that.
What we are doing by closing off this end of the project is allowing a tenant that
lives here on one side to, it's a short cut over to this side. Currently right now a tenant
that lives here and a friend lives here has to traverse the whole length of the building two
times and if they are on another floor they have to go up a flight of stairs. So enclosing it
kind of creates a walkway all the way around the building. They won't have to go to the
mall to do some walking if you don't want to. You can do some laps in the building.
The second floor level. Again, connecting the corridors basically from one side to
the other and providing trash rooms on each side that is all that second floor space is.
Again, a convenient connection from one side to the other.
Chairperson Sigel—So is the rest of the second floor going to be like a double height
ceiling to the first floor or is the roof just going to be lower.
Mr. Langley—This allows us to keep the roof fairly low except for over the community
space where we are upgrading to a cathedral ceiling in that area. So that allows us to
keep the roof structures on the side at a lower level.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Ellsworth—What are you doing to the skin of the building? It's got that board and
baton on it.
Mr. Langley—The proposal provides greater ventilation through the attic space, a new
roof over the entire building. Residing the entire building with vinyl siding. Here's the
proposed colors right now a white vinyl shake and some of the accentuaries, you know
there are sort of bays as you go down the building, accent those with white vinyl shake.
Then kind of tan, light brown siding on the rest of the building along with corner accent
trim,putting aluminum over the faces, vinyl gutters throughout the entire building to
collect the rain waters instead of just flowing out across the lawn areas. Then doing some
painted accents. The main entry area that is a decorative sunburst type over the main
entry. So the pink area is very small.
Mr. Ellsworth—Are you eliminating some apartments there with that new entrance way?
Mr. Langley—That center portion that we are adding is all addition. The dark edge area
is all addition. That's all the common area. In so doing, there is an area down here
where we are taking out the community space; we are taking out the office. That creates
four boxes for the additional four apartment units. It wasn't the intention of the design.
The intent wasn't to add four units, its just kind of a left over. What else do you with the
space after you add all your community functions at one end, you don't want to do any
more community functions down at the other end, you want all of those centrally located
within the building. So the idea was to renovate this first floor level to four apartment
units.
Mr. Matthews —I'm a little bit confused. I'm sorry. I get confused easily. You are not
invading the parking on the right side of the building, right?
Mr. Langley—This parking lot? No. We are not going into that parking lot.
Mr. Matthews —Okay. Here is where my confusion is. Your narrative said here you
were extending the building 40 feet. Would you tell me where that 40 feet is,please?
You are extending it 40 feet along the same rear property line.
Mr. Langley—Currently the edge of the existing building, there is a stairway that sticks
out to this point right here. This is the edge of the building we are building on. So that
40 feet is back at this point that we are coming out from. So from the stairplane we are
coming out approximately 26 feet.
Mr. Matthews —Again, the real property line is the line...
Mr. Langley—The rear property line is down here.
Mr. Matthews —That's the rear property line? Where's the parking lot?
Mr. Langley—It's a corner lot so maybe...this is probably the rear property line.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 28, 2005
APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Matthews - So where is the 40 feet we are talking about?
Mr. Langley—Sorry. We are not going anywhere closer to the rear property line than the
existing building.
Mr. Matthews —So where are you extending the building?
Mr. Ellsworth—To the east.
Mr. Langley—To the east we are extending. Do you see this dark hatched area here?
Mr. Matthews —That little corner?
Mr. Langley—That corner right there.
Chairperson Sigel—That is 40 feet right?
Mr. Langley—That is 40 feet from west to east.
Mr. Ellsworth—That leg along the east side, is that where there is parking? Is that out in
the parking lot or no? There is parking along there now.
Mr. Langley—This is an existing parking lot that we are going to fix and restripe. We
are not coming out any further than the existing parking lot.
Mr. Matthews —The sidewalk is still there?
Mr. Langley—Yes.
Mr. Niefer—I noticed looking at a couple of plot plans that the underground electric
utilities come in through the open "u" at the present time with a utility easement. Now
you are going to build above the underground the utility lines. You are going to build on
top of them in the easement area. Did you clear that issue up with the utility?
Mr. Langley—We have started discussions with the utility company. Obviously, they are
not going to let us landlock their transformers. They will all be removed and brought
outside the building to this front plate.
Mr. Krantz—Do you anticipate displacing any of the present residents while this massive
reconstruction is going on?
Mr. Langley—No. We do not actually. What we are doing is actually we are going to
have 7 to 8 units that are going to be available as we have had vacancies we are not going
to re-rent those. We have done this before in 7 or 8 other locations now where we have
done the rehabilitation in place and we will provide what we call lodge units. We will
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 28, 2005
APPROVED MINUTES
actually pack the goods for the residents; pack their kitchens up etc, because we will be
redoing their kitchens. They will probably be out of their apartments about 2-3 days and
we will move them into a lodge unit and it will be fully furnished. Better Housing is
helping us with that as well as our partner to provide supportive services. Activities will
occur over in the old community space while we are doing the renovation and basically it
will be like moving into a hotel room. If we get to a point where we have any other
issues needing more space, returning units faster, we have the Best Western, which is
actually the property that is our neighbor to the north that we will actually move people in
there for a couple of days, but it is generally about a 2 or 3 day maximum turn around.
Mr. Krantz—What percentage of the current 100 apartments have cars?
Mr. Langley—We have 128 existing spaces. About 35% of the residents presently have
vehicles. So we are...
Mr. Krantz—And you are cutting from 139 to 118.
Mr. Langley—What we have found since we have owned the site is that never more than
75% of the spaces are used on very rare occasion. So we find parking is actually
excessive if anything for the seniors and there's a real elderly component. In fact, there's
a frail elderly component that we set aside as part of the tax credit award for about 15%
of the units. It will be 15 that will cater to a real frail, elderly component and the
renovations that we are doing are going to allow frail elderly to live independently longer
because we will also have some supportive services that will be brought in by Better
Housing and using the doctor's office and those things that will allow the individuals to
stay there longer.
Mr. Niefer—I recognize from your write up this building is going to be completely
sprinkled with an alarm system. In the past the fire department had ingress/egress to the
courtyard area. In consideration of closing off the end, how is the fire department or the
building department that has jurisdictional over building safety, how have they reacted to
this or commented on the approval?
Mr. Langley—I have had a discussion with the fire marshal. He saw no problem with
enclosing that end of the courtyard. It's really not set up very well for them to access nor
would they access that with a fire truck. His only concern was that we maintain an
egress, several egress points out of that point yard either so that a tenant could exit into
the court yard in an emergency situation and then be able to exit out again. So the goal is
that any door entering this courtyard will be unlocked at all times. It's now a secure
environment that they will be able to go in there and come back out the other side of the
building.
Mr. Niefer—You didn't feel that people living on the second story would want to escape
from a window on the second story; they wouldn't have any assistance from the fire
department to do that.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Mr. Langley—As stated, there are access points through the building. There are a couple
of central type corridor areas and you can see the walkways. If the fire is over here a
firemen could come through the building and be in the courtyard.
Mr. Niefer—So will there be something from some fire official that will say...
Mr. Frost—Actually they wouldn't get a building permit if it were not code compliant.
They actually have access on all four sides of the building anyhow.
Mr. Langley—I think it is actually interesting as well that there...
Mr. Niefer—It is going to be a unique building because we don't have very many court
yard buildings in the Town of Ithaca.
Mr. Frost—Lakeside Nursing Home has a courtyard.
Mr. Langley—Yeah. There are 8 separate entrances into this building. There's two on
the north side, two on the south side, two down to the other end and two there. So there
is a lot of access in and out of the building.
Mr. Frost—Often the design of a lot of the buildings really doesn't even accommodate
windows as a viable means of egress. You take any hotel or multistory buildings you
cannot even open the window. The building interior is designed to accommodate people
going down stairs.
Mr. Matthews —So if they ran out into the courtyard, they could still escape out of the
building.
Mr. Frost—The intent by design usually is not to count as a means of egress the
courtyard, but provide enough passages to get out of the building without using the
courtyard. In the design they determined that the occupancy of the building with the
number of people, the number of doors, the distance traveled to doorways and stuff like
that.
Mr. Matthews —I have one question. Are you committed to maintain this facility as a
senior housing facility?
Mr. Langley—Yes, we are actually and as a senior affordable facility. As part of the
award of the federal tax credits from the New York State Division of Housing and
Community Renewal is a 30-year regulation, regulatory requirement that's deal fixed that
will require us to maintain this as affordable for the next 30 years.
Mr. Matthews —For 30 years? Thank you.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel—Any other questions? I was wondering about on the application here
and the use variance is checked. I didn't notice any...are you aware of any use variances
that you are requesting?
Mr. Frost—I don't see that. The only thing I thought in my thinking was in terms of
going into the buffer zones.
Mr. Langley—Yeah, in a nonconforming use side within the area variance.
Mr. Frost—I think when they checked it off we was thinking...(not audible, Mr. Frost not
speaking into the microphone).
Mr. Langley—That's right. Exactly. We are not changing any use. We were looking at
nonconforming use because of the area setback.
Mr. Smith—In the narrative, also, it mentions expansion of nonconforming use instead of
expansion of a nonconforming building.
Chairperson Sigel—Okay.
Attorney Barney—I had just one question. I don't want to second-guess the designer, but
when I had a mother in a facility somewhat like this the doctor's office is kind of off by
itself. How do you accommodate people who might be waiting to see the doctor? Where
would they go?
Mr. Langley—It is fairly close to the community space and also if it is somebody who
needs assistance or whatever they could use the conference area. Its still preliminary
design and its something that we could look at further. By and large it is by appointment,
the doctor coming in often times its my understanding that a tenant will be called from
their apartment unit and the doctor is ready to see them.
Mr. Forney—We also have it in the community space as well. There is often times where
they end up sitting in there with their friends or they are playing cards or whatever might
be in there waiting.
Attorney Barney—I know the doctors in the area and having experience with my mother
the appointment time quite frequently was not the time that the doctor actually got to see
her.
Mr. Forney—That's very true. This, of course, we won't be serving any outside. They
would only being seeing residents of the that and a lot of times its also podiatrists as well
that we are now finding that its better to do in the apartment unit that they are providing
the service and they are going directly to the apartment units. So often times the office
doesn't get used as much. That is a good point. I think the conference area will be one of
the areas that will be used, but I think most of the time I think they end up sitting in the
community room.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel—Okay. I guess we need to enumerate all of the area and all the
setback variances that you are requesting. Are there any...it doesn't seem like there are
any new...you are extending the building a little bit on the rear and that's along the rear
lot line, but that is just a continuation of the current setback, right?
Mr. Langley—Correct.
Chairperson Sigel—And then all the rest of the new structures is conforming, is that
correct as far as the setbacks?
Mr. Langley—That is correct.
Chairperson Sigel—And that is a 20 foot setback?
Mr. Langley—22 feet 2 inches.
Chairperson Sigel—Okay.
Mr. Langley—I believe the existing building is 20 feet 1 inch.
Chairperson Sigel—So if we said 20 feet that would be plenty.
Mr. Langley—Correct.
Chairperson Sigel—So is that it then as far as setback?
Mr. Langley—I believe that is it.
Chairperson Sigel—Then there is just the general expansion of a nonconforming
building, nonconforming structure. Then there is the issue of a sign variance. Building
coverage.
Mr. Frost—And then the garbage dumpster being located in the front yard buffer zone.
Chairperson Sigel—Okay. So we have the 20-foot for the new piece, multiple residence
ratios, garbage and the sign. Do you want to talk a little bit about why you are requesting
a second sign?
Mr. Langley—Well the existing sign is down here at this corner. With the office function
and the community space, everything down at the other end, we are kind of seeing this
driveway at the eastern end as the new primary entrance so we would like to add a sign
down at that end as well as trying to encourage traffic through this existing driveway, but
knowing full well that people are creates of habit. The fear is if they don't see the sign
there, they've always seen the sign there that they think something has changed or
different that maybe the Ellis Hollow isn't Ellis Hollow any longer. So the idea was if
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 28, 2005
APPROVED MINUTES
we could put a sign in that location, it would just be more familiar to everybody saying
okay I'm at Ellis Hollow that is coming from the western direction.
Mr. Frost—It makes good sense because the current sign now is kind of on the corner
where people going down Summerhill Lane, not just to the Ellis Hollow apartments but
to the apartments further down the road. Interestingly a business zone, which is East Hill
Plaza, right adjacent to it can have two freestanding signs on a corner property. This is a
corner property,just happens to be in a multiple resident zone. It does make good sense
to offer the second sign at the second entrance.
Chairperson Sigel—Okay. Any question about the signage? I assume you are planning
to make the sign the size allowed.
Mr. Forney—I believe they are 24 square feet each.
Chairperson Sigel—Mike, any comments on the environmental assessment?
Mr. Smith—No. Most of the variances are preexisting things. Having the dumpsters
being enclosed will improve the situation.
Chairperson Sigel—Okay we will open the public hearing. With no one present, we will
close the public hearing. I will move to make a negative determination of environmental
significance with regard to the appeal of Conifer Realty for the Ellis Hollow Senior
Apartments for the reasons stated in the environmental assessment form completed by
Town staff dated February 16, 2005. Second?
Mr. Krantz—I'll second it.
Chairperson Sigel—All in favor?
Board—Aye.
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 012: ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT : Conifer
Realty, 1028 Ellis Hollow Road, Tax Parcel No. 62.-2-1.124
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Harry Ellsworth.
RESOLVED that this Board makes a negative determination of environmental
significance in the appeal of Conifer Realty, appellant, Ray Wetherbee, Agent,
based upon the Environmental Assessment Form prepared by Town staff dated
February 16, 2005.
The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
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APPROVED MINUTES
NAYS: None
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Sigel—And I assume John that you would recommend separate motions for
the sign as opposed to the other stuff or...
Attorney Barney—Well if we had an audience out here screaming at us with a possibility
of a law suit in the back of our mind I would do it, but given what we have here, I would
be perfectly comfortable if you want to do it all in one.
Chairperson Sigel—Okay. I will move to grant the appeal of Conifer Realty requesting
variances from Article XXV, Section 270-205 to enlarge a nonconforming multiple
residence building with additional living space at Ellis Hollow Senior Apartments, 1028
Ellis Hollow Road, Tax Parcel 62.-2-1.124, multiple residence zone with additional
variances from Article XII, Sections 270-104, 106, 107, and 111 to exceed setback limits,
building coverage in relation to lot size and allow a waste receptacle to be located within
the front yard buffer zone. Additionally, a variance from Chapter 221, Section 221-6 of
the Sign Law to allow a second freestanding sign on the property where one sign is
permitted specifically the variance is allowing a continuation of the building in the rear to
have no less than a 20 foot setback to the rear property line. How are the multiple
residences changing? Do we need to specify the new ratio? I could just specify the total
number that it's being increased to 104.
Mr. Smith—The current ratio would allow a maximum of 65.4 dwelling units and they
currently have 104.
Chairperson Sigel—So just say that this motion is granting permission to have a total of
104 dwelling units instead of the current 100 units where only 65 would be permitted
according to the zoning regulation. Also, this motion is allowing the garbage receptacles
to be within the front yard buffer zone. And lastly, the motion is permitting a
freestanding sign at the second entrance to be no greater than 24 square feet as allowed in
the sign law with the finding that the requirements for an area variance have been
satisfied in the case of the area variances and the requirements for a sign variance has
been satisfied in the case of the sign variance. Any suggested modifications? Okay.
Second? Question?
Mr. Niefer—With regard to the trash receptacle and enclosure in the front yard, there is
no comment or suggestion about some minimal landscaping, architecture around.
Chairperson Sigel—I think that was dealt with at the Planning Board level.
Mr. Niefer—I stand corrected. It just struck when I read through it that I was surprised or
I couldn't see it, any reference to any plantings around the front yard trash receptacle
enclosures.
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 28, 2005
APPROVED MINUTES
Chairperson Sigel—What is the material actually going around the dumpster?
Mr. Langley—It is going to be a board on board fence.
Chairperson Sigel—Okay. Is there any landscaping on the outside of it?
Mr. Langley—I believe there is some existing landscaping down at the end but not
specifically surrounding the dumpster.
Mr. Krantz - ...it says that the proposal calls to for the dumpsters to be placed within
wooden enclosures. So it doesn't really talk about trees covering or shrubs covering.
Mr. Langley—One very important thing is that the elevation grade here. The road is
approximately 15 feet higher than the parking lot elevation. While I could plant trees
around it, you are pretty much looking over it at the building. We would be happy to put
landscaping around it. When you look at the grade and why we selected that corner is
that it sits lower in that corner and no one will ever see it because when residents drive in
they are looking at the building and with that 15 foot grade distance it sits down below
the road you don't see it from the road either. But quite honestly we would be the first
ones to throw landscaping around it if we thought it didn't look well. We are happy to do
whatever the board would like with that.
Chairperson Sigel—You received preliminary site plan approval from the Planning
Board?
Mr. Langley—And final.
Chairperson Sigel—Okay.
Mr. Smith—I think you can see from the pictures that went around, too, the picture from
the road does show that it is a limited view in.
Chairperson Sigel—I don't feel strongly. I tend to defer to the Planning Board on that
kind of a matter. Second?
Mr. Niefer—Second.
Chairperson Sigel—All in favor?
Board—Aye.
ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 013: Conifer Realty, 1028 Ellis Hollow Rd, Tax
Parcel No. 62.-2-1.124
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TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
FEBRUARY 28, 2005
APPROVED MINUTES
MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by James Niefer.
RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of Conifer Realty, LLC, Appellant,
Ray Wetherbee, Agent, requesting variances from Article XXV, Section 270-205
to enlarge a non-conforming multiple residence building with additional living
space at the Ellis Hollow Senior Apartments, located at 1028 Ellis Hollow Road,
Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 62-2-1.124, Multiple Residence Zone, with
additional variances from Article XII, Sections 270-104, 270-106, 270-107, and
270-111 to exceed setback limits, building coverage in relation to lot size, and to
allow a waste receptacle to be located within a front yard buffer zone.
Additionally, a variance from Chapter 221, Section 221-6 of the Sign Law to allow
a second freestanding sign on the property where one sign is permitted.
Specifically, the variance is allowing a continuation of the building in the rear to
have no less than a 20-foot setback to the rear property line. This motion is
granting permission to have a total of 104 dwelling units instead of the current
100 units, where only 65 would be permitted according to the zoning regulation.
This motion is allowing the garbage receptacles to be in the front yard buffer
zone. This motion is permitting a freestanding sign at the second entrance to be
no greater than 24 square feet as allowed in the Ithaca Sign Law.
FINDINGS: The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied, in
the case of the area variances; and the requirements for a sign variance
has been satisfied in the case of the sign variance.
CONDITIONS: None.
The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows:
AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews
NAYS: NONE
The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously.
Chairperson Sigel adjourned the meeting at 9:20 p.m.
Kirk Sigel, Chairperson
48