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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA Minutes 2005-01-24 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MONDAY, JANUARY 24, 2005 6:30 P.M. PRESENT: Kirk Sigel, Chairperson; Harry Ellsworth, Board Member; Jim Niefer, Board Member; Dick Matthews, Board Member; Ron Krantz, Board Member; Andy Frost, Director of Building/Zoning; John Barney, Attorney for the Town; Michael Smith, Environmental Planner. ABSENT: None EXCUSED: None OTHERS: George Conneman, 197 Christopher Lane; Andrew Dixon, 310 W. State St; Scott Trelease, 630 Elmira Rd; Peter Trowbridge, 1345 Mecklenburg Rd; Dave Auble, 111 King Rd W.; Jagat P. Sharma, 312 E. Seneca St; Chuck Light, 205 Westview Lane; Marty Nichols, 610 Coddington Rd; Margaret McCasland, 272 Hayts Rd; Christiann Dean, King Rd. W.; Mary Bulkot, The Ithaca Times; Melanie Hauver, 6215 Perry City Rd., Trumansburg NY; Ryan Ciotoli, 6215 Perry City Rd., Trumansburg NY. Upon motion by Chairperson Sigel, seconded by Jim Niefer, the board moved into executive session at 6:37 p.m. Chairperson Sigel opened the regular meeting at 7:17 p.m. APPEAL of David Auble, Owner; Jay Bramhandkar,Appellant; Peter Trowbridge, Agent, requesting a Special Approval under the requirements of Article VII, Section 34 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance(Pre April 1, 2004 Ordinance applies), to be permitted to construct a 58-room hotel and associated parking on the Danby Road south of King Road West Chairperson Sigel—Good evening. Welcome to the January meeting of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Board of appeals. This evening we have four appeals. First is the adjourned appeal of David Auble, second is the appeal of Scott Trelease, and the appeal of Ileen Devault and Diane Feldman, and finally the appeal of Jim Clark. We will be taking them in that order. The first appeal this evening is an adjourned appeal from the last meeting, the appeal of Jay Bramhandkar, appellant, Peter Trowbridge, agent requesting special; approval under the requirements of Article VII, Section 34 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance that's the Pre April 1, 2004 Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a 58-room hotel and associated parking on the Danby Road south of King Road West, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 37.-1-17.1, Business District C. Would the applicant like to come to the table here? I think the first thing we should do is discuss Harry's role on the board for this case. He had recused himself at the last meeting because he currently had a contract with the applicant, and apparently that contract has ended, and so he has indicated that he feels that he is in a position to now vote on this case. TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Christiann Dean—I object. Chairperson Sigel—Excuse me, Ma'am, the time for public hearing will be a little bit later. Harry, did you want to say anything? Mr. Ellsworth—No, I have nothing to add. Chairperson Sigel—Do you have any comment about Harry's role? Mr. Barney—I might give Christiann and anyone else who wanted to comment on it before you take action, but I would, at this juncture, recommend Harry stay here and listen to the discussion and then make a decision whether to vote or not at the conclusion of that discussion. What I'm suggesting is that Harry continue to sit here until everybody's had a chance to speak including on the issue of whether he should or should not recuse himself, and then he will make his decision at that point, so it will give you an opportunity to comment on it. Ms. Dean—Thank you. Chairperson Sigel—It appears that the board has received a number of letters here which I don't think we've had a chance to read, I know I haven't, so we will just take a couple of moments to read the letters here. Pause Chairperson Sigel—OK, we can proceed now. Is there anything, Mr. Trowbridge, that you wanted to state at this point? Any changes to your application or any updates? Mr. Trowbridge - Well, since our last meeting, we did provide the board, on January 14 ' with an extended letter and two additional pieces of information. One is the overall site context map, looking at the surrounding development in the neighborhood that's on your left, colored aerial photograph, and what we wanted to show were buildings in relatively close proximity like college circle that have equivalent length buildings, and other development within the area. We also provided architectural elevations that weren't provided in the first submission. What we thought we would do as well in the letter, is much more clearly go through section 7, that focuses on the granting special approval, and in our letter to you, we did go through and outline in some detail how we've addressed those issues. As you know, and I'm not telling the board anything, some of the issues deal with traffic, surface water, health safety welfare issues, and those have all been addressed as part of our submission for site plan approval that was in front of the planning board and that we did receive a negative declaration. It seems that both the letters and the issues that need to be perhaps discussed more fully, is that is there a demonstrated proposed need. Andrew Dixon is here this evening, who did the demand study, the planning board did a determination that there was adequate demand for this particular program on this site, as a part of their resolution for preliminary site plan 2 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES approval. Andrew is here this evening if the board has any questions on finance and demand issues. The two other issues the project needs to be looked at relative to neighborhood character and context. Again we've provided some additional information tonight just so that we get a snapshot of this project in context with both existing projects, but also other projects that have been approved, such as the Holly Creek subdivision. So immediately to the west of the hotel, as you can see, there are a number of town homes that have been approved for construction, or at least have been approved through the site plan review process. We also feel, as the planning board did with both zone and the comprehensive plan. Both the new zoning and the old zoning does allow for hotels on this site, and as we spelled out in our letter, and to put a point on it, it really is the number of rooms, because the building itself falls well under, despite the fact that people have talked about the size of the building, well under what zoning allows. The building only occupies less than two thirds of the site area that zoning would allow for a building on this site, and it falls within all the yard variances and height limitations in terms of area variance. So there is no variances needed, nor is the size of the building per se, in question, it really is the number of rooms. Because the zoning does allow a building of this size on the site, given all the limitations. We have provided for buffering between zones as I mentioned last time. There is not only setback, but fifty-foot landscape buffers between various zones. On the site plan, as you can see, the zoning requirements for landscape buffering curb both on the west and the northerly side of the property along West King Road and between the holly creek subdivision and the proposed hotel project. So the applicant feels that the issue really boils down the additional 28 rooms in the hotel that we have fulfilled all the other obligations relative to both zone and site plan approval for the project. Chairperson Sigel—OK. Anyone have any comments at this point? Questions for the applicant? Mr. Matthews —Gentlemen, you said that, correct me if I'm wrong, in spite of the additional eighteen rooms, the size of the building, the profile of the building, the footprint of the building, is going to be the same as if it were a thirty room hotel? Mr. Trowbridge - I'm not saying it's the same as a thirty-room hotel, what I'm saying is that under the current zone, a building of this size is allowable, actually a larger building than what we're showing is allowable, in terms of building coverage, height, and setback. So, to put a point on it, it's the total number of rooms, and really not the size of the building, because, if we had a thirty-room hotel, the building could potentially even be larger than the building we're showing, under the current zoning. Chairperson Sigel—Any other questions at this time? If not,we'll begin the public hearing. Anyone who wishes to speak may now come to the desk and the microphone. Chairperson Sigel opened the public hearing at 7:33 p.m. Chairperson Sigel—Sir? 3 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Conneman - Good evening, you have a copy of my statement on a couple of yellow sheets of paper. My name is George Conneman, I'm a resident of the Town of Ithaca, I live at 197 Christopher Lane. I've lived in the town for seven years,previously I lived in the village of Cayuga Heights for 34 years. I've been active in the community during these years serving on several boards, including seventeen years as chairman of the Bolton Point Water Commission. I come to you tonight as a private citizen, however. I believe it is important to do all we can to preserve the nature and beauty of the Town of Ithaca and maintain the integrity of the zoning regulations. It is necessary to look at the impact, I think, of a project on the character of a neighborhood. The matter before you tonight concerns the granting of a special approval for more than 30 rooms for a Country Inn and Suites facility on the corner of West King Road and Rt. 96B. The intended use of this area in the town's current zoning is neighborhood commercial. At the time the Holly Creek development was approved, I believe the assumption was that the area now proposed for a large Country Inn and Suites facility (58 suites and rooms)was to allow development of an attractive, neighborhood friendly, commercial development on this site—facilities that serve the local neighborhood. The intent was to have some facilities on South Hill that would reduce the need to go into town and this reduce traffic congestion closer to the city. This area was envisioned as a small attractive shopping center. As small 30 room hotel,probably like a bed and breakfast, could still fit there but not the proposed larger facility. The footprint for the proposed Country Inn and Suites is just too large for the site proposed. Since 50 of the 58 rooms at the Country Inn and Suites are proposed to be suites (suites, as you probably know, in the way Country Inn and Suites do it are 50% larger than a typical hotel room). It translates into a facility the size of a 90-room hotel. In the last presentation to the planning board, the developer scaled down the size of the hotel from 62 to 58 rooms. Big deal! That's sarcasm, I guess. The proposed hotel is not comparable to LaTourelle, which is on a 20-acre parcel set way back from the road. The developer has argued that any Inn would note be economically feasible if it were as small as 30 rooms. But if you go to the Country Inns and Suites website, there are several new Inns that they've built, across the country, that have 38 rooms, and 38 or 40 rooms. I want you to understand that I am not opposed to development, but this development for a 58 room facility is not consistent with the neighborhood that is developing in this are. I believe it would also add to sprawl along the Danby Road and on into the Town of Danby. Development in this are should be of a dimension that fits with nearby parkland, small businesses and farmland. In letter to the Town of Ithaca Planning Board supporting the large Country Inns and Suites, there is not much passion flavoring it; rather the economic justification is merely boilerplate in my opinion. Other hotels recently built or under construction in our area(Courtyard by Marriot, Hampton Inn, and The Hilton) serve the needs mentioned in the letters to the Planning Board. Newly revised zoning laws would prevent such a sizable hotel from being built. There would be a structure limit of 7500 square feet the way I understand the zoning. I concede that the old zoning laws would allow a larger sized project. It is only by using a grace period that this project is even under consideration. 4 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES We also need to do all we can to provide a buffer for Buttermilk Falls Park. This brings more traffic into the area which impacts the park. The 58-room Country Inn and Suites is in the wrong place, is the wrong size and is being built for the wrong reasons. I urge you to turn down the request for special approval to build a huge Country Inn and Suites. Your refusal would allow an appropriate, neighborhood, commercial development which would include a small attractive shopping center and a even a small hotel or bed and breakfast. Thank you. Chairperson Sigel—Thank you, Mr. Conneman. Does anyone else wish to speak? Please just begin with your name and address. Ms. Dean - Good evening, I am Chritiann Dean. For the past quarter century, I have lived and farmed at 330 West King Road in the Town of Ithaca. For twelve years, I served as chair of the Town's agriculture committee, at the beginning of which I helped write the report,Planning for Agriculture in the Town of Ithaca. I come here tonight to attend the sixth meeting of the Town, at which I have voice my concerns about the Country Inns and Suites proposal. I would add that at most of those earlier meetings, including the earlier announced public hearing for this one, there were several other neighbors who attended, but because this meeting has been rescheduled, they are not able to be here tonight. The Town Comprehensive Plan designated the corner of West King Road and Danby road for neighborhood commercial enterprise, including a hotel of no more than 30 rooms, and permits a larger hotel by special approval, which brings you into the picture. I am not concerned about truly neighborhood commercial development on that site, like a small shopping center that would be used by people in the neighborhood, including a 30-room hotel or a large bed and breakfast, something in that neighborhood, but the proposal now under consideration is of a very different magnitude. The 53 suites, which are really multi-room units,plus 5 regular rooms, make the proposed hotel 3 times the size intended by the comprehensive plan. The development of this size, will bring, despite the traffic study provided by the developer, the would-be developer, a development of this size would bring significantly increased noise and construction traffic, as well as permanent traffic into this neighborhood, significantly changing the character of the neighborhood. As the owner of a fruit farm located less than 1 mile from the proposed development, I have additional concerns. The proposed hotel's nighttime lights, noise and litter, would make it impractical to continue to farm there. And our farm is part of the 1,085 acres of farmland, more than 1/6 of the town's agricultural land on West King Road. If you approve this large hotel, at the threshold of West King Road agriculture, I predict there will soon be no farms here, due to development pressure. The phenomenon that causes farmers to farm in the shadow of a city to finally throw in the towel. And I'm not talking about something theoretical, I'm right here, right now, and my kid, my oldest son, who is the only young farm heir on West King Road, who has expressed any public interest in continuing on, said to me last week, "Mom, if the Town lets them build that big hotel, we can't stay here, we might as well move to town. We can't keep going." And you know, you can only encourage farmers to farm, you can't force them, you can't force us. And especially you can't force 5 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES the next generation. All farmers are pressured by high costs and fluctuating income, but those who farm in the shadow of a city also have higher taxes, noise,pollution and non- farm neighbors who like pretty green fields who like pretty green fields, but not the smell of manure or the sound of tractors droning into the night. And we do have to drone into the night. When the weather's right, we have to work. Ironically, the proposed hotel complex will drive out we few remaining farmers who currently keep open the green space that draw tourists, like the ones this proposed hotel holds to attract to Ithaca. What is the difference, I ask you, between East King Road and West King Road? With the remarkable lack of foresight two decades ago,just at the time I bought my farm, the Town allowed developers, including Mr. Auble to turn LaGrand Chase's East King Road farm, an expansive stretch of green space, into a suburb called Chase Farm. Once the town realized what it had done, the Planning Department began envisioning most of West King Road, one of the few remaining large stretches of farmland in the town as an agricultural zone. They formalized that intention in the comprehensive plan, by designating all of the West King Road farmland as an agricultural zone, and the Danby Road corner for neighborhood commercial enterprise, specifically a hotel of no more than 30 rooms, so it would not infringe on this agricultural zone. Although, technically a larger hotel, can, by special permit, be built on this corner, that is not, as Mr. Conneman pointed out, that is not what the intention of the Town's comprehensive plan states. Please recognize that farmers can only continue to provide the free groundskeeping services, mowing and cultivating our farms that are so valuable to the town and city tourist industry and neighborhood character, if town boards such as ZBA, avoid actions that render farms unfarmable. Please vote no on the Country Inn and Suites proposal, so my multi-generational farm family can stay here and keep West King Road green. And I would like to speak also to the public perception if Mr. Ellis votes this evening. At the earlier meeting, at the earlier announced public hearing, at which we were not allowed to speak, and at which you did not vote, Mr. Ellsworth recused himself by saying that he has a conflict of interest. This evening, IL believe I heard you say that you have now finished up your business and you no longer have that conflict of interest, is that correct? Although technically, I have no doubt that you have technically done that, no doubt... Mr. Barney—I would like to clarify something, that's why I'm a little bit on the defensive, Christiann, he didn't finish up his business, there was apparently a contract in place for some future work, that contract has been terminated, ended, so that there is no prospect of future work going ahead. So it's not that he did some work and was paid for it, or he has some expectation. At the time of the last meeting, as I understood it, he had a contract with Mr. Auble for a different piece of property, but nevertheless some reasonable expectation of getting paid. That contract was terminated without any further activity, and is ended. And that's why I'm not so quick to say he should not vote or vote. I don't see the clear conflict, as clear as it certainly was at the prior meeting. So I want to make sure you understand that it's not something that was contracted for, work was done and completed, there was never any work done. Ms. Dean - Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Barney. I still feel that there is a conflict of interest here, even if the technical conflict of interest is closed, I believe that there is 6 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES still a de facto conflict of interest from someone who has had a long-standing business relationship with the developer, and has no doubt, an opportunity to... well, I'll just leave it there. The public perception is very important in this, and the public perception will be... my public perception is, and I believe that many others from the public will perceive this in the same way, that it is inappropriate for Mr. Ellsworth to vote on this. Chairperson Sigel—Can I ask you a question? Ms. Dean - Surely. Chairperson Sigel—I would just like to ask you to expound a little bit on your statement that when you say that the proposed hotel's nighttime lights, noise and litter, would make it impractical to continue farming? Ms. Dean - That's right. The nature of our farm, and this is the only kind of farming that is increasing in the town of Ithaca, is small, fresh-market, high value farming. We grow organic red raspberries, and people need to feel like they're coming... people don't want to come to a place that's like in the back yard of a big development. People won't come, people won't buy our products. There are two aspects to this, one is that is just too unpleasant, I mean it's just too disgusting to be out there trying to farm with that level of noise, that level of traffic, that level of pollution, and it really destroys our business, no body wants to come out... people come out to pick because they want to come out to a nice pleasant place in the country that is pretty close to town, and people aren't going to want to do that anymore when it is really just in the backyard of a development. Also, regarding the nighttime lights and pollution, the nighttime lights change the eco-system, and the traffic also changes it. So, when there's a big development that goes in very close by,people start driving by, and throwing, for example they throw bottles. And if somebody goes up West King Road and tosses a bottle, it lands in our orchard where we have to drive our tractor, and the cost of replacing a shredded tractor tire is about 1,000 dollars, so that's just one example. But the farmers that farm on the edge of a city, this is a phenomenon that is very well documented in places that have had to deal with this phenomenon a little sooner than Ithaca. That, it just becomes impractical to farm. We will not be able to continue to farm if this development goes in, and frankly, we are a good deal to you. We are a really good deal, and the document,Planning for Agriculture in the Town of Ithaca, documents that, that the farmers,plus the state parks, are what keep al that green space open, and if we are driven out, it means that other farmers will soon be driven out, and there are only 12 of us, only 12 farms left in the town of Ithaca. So if one farm is pushed out by a development like this, there's going to be a domino effect, and perhaps it's hard for you to understand that, but if you approve this tonight, if you approve this, you are doing something that I don't think is your intention at all, what I believe your intention is is to support economic growth in the town, it's my intention too, that's a good goal. But I think you don't realize,perhaps you don't realize, and so I have come to all these meetings again and again to try to bring to your awareness the inadvertent effect of this proposed hotel which is way out of scale of what the comprehensive plan is looking for. The effect of that, not only on the neighborhood, which Mr. Conneman has addressed and all the people who have come out time after 7 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES time to try to speak to you would point out if you had allowed them. But also I am here to speak especially of these effects on agriculture. Thank you. Mr. Matthews —Question, Kirk? Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, Dick, go ahead. Mr. Matthews —You have a raspberry farm, is it? Ms. Dean - That's right. Mr. Matthews —It's located between Upper Buttermilk falls upper entrance and Sand Bank road? Ms. Dean - That's right, it's just above Upper Buttermilk Falls state park. Mr. Matthews —But on the crest when you come up? Ms. Dean -Yes. Mr. Barney—I'm sorry,. Christiann, I've never fully understood where you're located, is it on the West side of Buttermilk Creek or it is on the East side? Ms. Dean - I'll say it in a way I think everybody here will understand. As you come up West King Road, with 96B to your back, you pass the entrance to Upper Buttermilk Falls state park, and then you come up around that treacherous really sharp little curve, our place is just at that crest of the hill on your right. Mr. Barney—And that's beyond the creek, am I correct? Or is it short of the creek? Ms. Dean - We border Buttermilk Falls state park. Mr. Barney—On the...? Mr. Frost—So she'd be actually on the Southwest side of the creek, on the other side. Mr. Barney—On the other side, away from this project? Ms. Dean - It's on the other side of the road, but we still hear all that... Mr. Barney—I understand that, I'm just trying to pinpoint the location, it's on the far side of the creek, and the far side of Buttermilk falls state park. Ms. Dean - Far side makes it sound like it's far away. Mr. Barney—Other side, I'm not trying to be pejorative here. But on the other side... 8 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Ms. Dean - That's correct. Mr. Krantz—Away from 96? Ms. Dean - We own 55 acres there, we have a multi-generational farm with two sons who would like to carry on. Mr. Barney—And I think you indicated that it was about a mile away? Ms. Dean - It's less than a mile. Mr. Barney—Very much less, or what are we talking about? Ms. Dean - It's less than a mile. Mr. Barney—More than a half mile. I'm trying to pinpoint again... Ms. Dean - Just a little over half a mile. I haven't clocked it, it's probably 3/4 of a mile. Chairperson Sigel—Any other questions for Ms. Dean? Thank you. Ms. Dean - Thank you. Chairperson Sigel—Anyone else? Please just begin with your name and address. Ms. MacAslin -My name is Margaret MacAslin, I live at 272 Hayts Road in the Town of Ithaca. I'm relatively new to the Town of Ithaca, but I've lived in the area for forty years. You have my statement, but I have a few comments briefly to add to that also. Since the board is primarily supposed to consider effects of the project on the character of the neighborhood, that is hat I'll address. As a person who used to commute to work via West King road, and know the intersection by Christiann's house very well, it seems like more than a mile because it's so treacherous, especially in weather like this, and also Stone Quarry Road, I am very aware of the primarily residential character of this neighborhood, as, I didn't say it here but also the agricultural, I mean, that corner where she lives is where it changes from residential to agricultural, and how it is already under stress from the current level of traffic. The current character of the neighborhood is residential and recreational on West King and Stone quarry Roads, and I should have said agricultural as I mention later, residential and educational on East King road, and a mix of residential, business and open land on Route 96. Stone Quarry and West King roads form a lovely residential neighborhood that also includes upper buttermilk falls state park, a place I have visited regularly for forty years. Aside from the two years I commuted regularly in that area, Buttermilk falls park is one of the reasons why I've come here. Like I said, I'm relatively new to the Town of Ithaca, last month's meeting is the first meeting I ever attended that the town had. I was out of Town on family business shortly after I bought my house in the Town of Ithaca, but I did write a letter for the 9 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Overlook project in support of that, and that is less than a mile from where I now live, so I am not somebody that opposes development, but this is one that did catch my interest, and twice I've driven here during terrible road conditions because of my concern for the residential and agricultural aspects which other people could speak to better than I could, and at the last meeting there were a lot of people here to speak to the residential aspects that aren't here tonight, and Christiann has addressed the agricultural, and I am strongly concerned for Buttermilk Falls State park, and for 25 years I lived in the city of Ithaca and regularly went to Upper Buttermilk with my children, and I'm very concerned about the impacts on that. East King Road also houses the Montessori school, relatively close to the proposed motel. And while Route 96 already has several businesses, they are predominantly low-traffic generators, with the exception of Hilltop Quickstop (Big Al's — and more on that later.) My primary concerns are traffic, noise and changes to the viewscape. In terms of traffic, having a major facility directly across from Hilltop could aggravate and already dangerous area for pulling into/out of traffic on Rte. 96. Hilltop customers have had several accidents and countless near accidents. I soon learned to pull through the Gas Station to East King and use the traffic lights to get back onto Rte. 96 or back onto West King Road. With the exception of Hilltop, the other businesses in the area are all relatively low traffic, and/or have entrances that work with the traffic light. A motel will generate more traffic than other potential businesses, even such as a restaurant, because of both visitors and employees, and you have many part time employees as housekeepers and such with a hotel. On a slow day, I'm just guessing, but on a slow day a 58-room motel built for, and this is from the presentation last month, "64-100" customers plus the staff, would generate 75 different cars going in and out, so that would be maybe 200 entrances or exits each day, twice that on major college weekends, and I'm saying that as the parent of a former college student, and I knew that when I was visiting her, the hotel was the base for the entire family and we were in and out many times. However, the hotel may also generate pedestrian traffic, because the motel is also being geared to busloads of tourists, and that is one of the reasons for being bigger than thirty, is so busloads of people could be brought in. I am assuming that may include ski, wine and foliage tours, all of which sound like a great idea, it's just the location I'm unhappy with,plus visiting athletic teams. While bus tours would reduce car traffic those days,people on those tours may want to go places other than where their bus takes them. I am concerned about the safety of motel patrons if they try to cross Route 96 B to get to Hilltop, to Ithaca College, or even, heaven forbid, to walk downtown. That is just not a pedestrian friendly location. I would also like to note that the nearby Montessori school has a campus with buildings on both sides of East King, traffic from hotel patrons. Many of whom would not be familiar with the area, could make this more hazardous for student pedestrians. In terms of noise, and this is a big one, and it is a cautionary tale. I am especially concerned about noise from bus groups such as athletic teams or skiers. My family used to swim at the downtown Ramada Inn, now the Holiday Inn, and we started avoiding the pool on ski weekends because of the rowdiness. Any noise from patrons' socializing would have a significant negative impact on people who live or who are visiting the area, 10 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES in particular I am thinking of Buttermilk. It is amazing how far sound can travel, and I really want to underscore that point. This summer I was working at a farmstand on Route 96 North near where I live, and a family stopped who were on there way home from camping at Lower Buttermilk, they have done this every week for ten years, and I was a total stranger and they were so frustrated they said to me that they were never ever coming back again because of the Home Depot. The Home Depot, a big portion of it is a cage, an open area, and the phones ring there, which means they're not enclosed in the building, the phones ring 24 hours for faxes for people trying to leave messages, I don't understand why, but it happens, and I've spoken to people at the store and it really does happen. I wasn't the first person to complain. And these people camping, way across the road at Buttermilk got woken up in the middle of the night by the phones ringing at Home Depot. And therein lies the cautionary tale. I'm sure the people in the City of Ithaca making the decision about whether Home Depot could go in there had no idea that there were going to be exposed phones ringing 24 hours a day, so just whenever a project gets really big, and that's part of the issue here. That's the reason this board is hearing this, is because the scale is beyond the scale that would normally go in this place. Despite all the things that people have so eloquently mentioned to you verbally or in letters, there is just no telling what else might come up as soon as you start stretching. In terms of Mr. Trowbridge's comments earlier referring to College Circle and what's that's like. King Road has been an unofficial but a functional boundary where the character changes, north of King Road you're getting used to—OK, maybe it used to be different before Longview went in, but yes there's College Circle, there's Longview, there's Ithaca College, it's much more densely populated. From King Road, there is a much more rural flavor, and again that's where scale comes in, and it's not just the footprint of the building, a motel needs a lot of blacktop, and that blacktop and the size of the building is going to change the flavor much more than anything else that would be legal to build there. And I would like to stress both the unpredictability of the scale and just the change of the flavor to the neighborhood. The last thing I would like to address that isn't in my letter, is that as somebody very new to Town politics, other than the letter I wrote in support of Overlook, with my usual concern that there be good pedestrian facilities for people to walk from there across the street to the hospital, that's a big shtick for me, I used to be on the bike pedestrian advisory council for the city of Ithaca, but there is a public perception, and I'm referring here both to whether Mr. Ellsworth recuses himself this time and to the vote having been delayed a month ago. The only reason it was delayed is because with Mr. Ellsworth recused, it looked like the project was going to fail because one member was absent, and so it was postponed for a month,just so that it would have a greater chance of passing, because with Mr. Ellsworth recused and one member absent, there was a good chance it wasn't going to make it in December, so coming back and Mr. Trowbridge made a reference to letters, I don't know if he got to read the letters that you all didn't have time to read until tonight and got to address them in his presentation or not, because they were supposed to be... mine didn't come until tonight because the deadline for getting into the town was about ten days ago and I didn't make that, it just feels like backroom politics, and I'm sorry but that doesn't feel good to me, and it's giving me, it's not the way ?I wanted to get involved in Town of Ithaca politics, it's not what I expected from the 11 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Town, and again it's perception, I have no reason to know anything else, but all I can say is, it doesn't look good. Thank you. Chairperson Sigel—Well, you may not believe me when I say it, but what probably would have happened at the last meeting would not have been a denial, we simply, if we had gone to a vote, with two members not able to vote, if we'd just resulted in a split decision, it would have not been an approval or denial, it just would have been no decision. Ms. MacAslin - OK, no decision with all the people that were there that night able to talk that night would have been far preferable to just deferring. There are a lot of people not here tonight who were here then that wanted to speak. Chairperson Sigel—Thank you for your comments. Ms. MacAslin - Thank you. Chairperson Sigel—Anyone else wish to speak? Sir? Please just begin with your name and address. Mr. Light- Good evening, my name is Chuck Light, I live at Westview Lane in the Town of Ithaca. I wanted to come here tonight, I was here last time. I wanted to come to speak about development, and why I believe this development will be good for South Hill, good for the Town of Ithaca, and good for the controlled development of the entire region. As you are all aware, the county has come up with a comprehensive plan,. The Town has a comprehensive plan, and if I understood the representative of the Town of Danby and the Town of Caroline, Frank Proto recently, he was concerned that if the Comprehensive plan were followed, and development were in effect focused into the Route 366 corridor, the Route 13 corridor, and the Lansing area, that it would result in a loss of revenues to the Towns of Danby and Caroline. If I understood Mr. Proto's comments, though I may not have, he seemed to be arguing in favor of a more balanced development which included South Hill and the Town of Danby. I've heard a lot about the size of this building, and yet it's my understanding that under the current zoning, the permissible size of this building is fully 50%larger by way of footprint than the design. One of the things that concerned me when I looked at the materials that I saw, which included photographs of a Country Inns and Suites in Cortland, was that it didn't seem in my mind to truly reflect what the design has in mind for this corner. If you remember that photograph of the Country Inns and Suites it was simply chopped down so the height was lower by a story. Now that was done at the suggestion, I believe, of the Planning Board and by the ultimate agreement of the developer. But what that photograph fails to do is give you any idea of mature landscaping and what effect that will have on visual aspects of this property. And I believe, if my eyes are correct in looking at the landscaping plans for this property are that it will be very well landscaped and will present not the monolith that you see when you drive by the Hampton Inn on Elmira road, but a more residential facility, one that probably would have a visual impact closer to Longview than to the Hampton Inn and Suites. 12 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES So I think that you have to take into account what will happen over time on South Hill. I don't think anybody can realistically argue that South Hill is going to remain undeveloped. I believe the Route 96 corridor will have to be developed. Growth will take care of that. When I was a boy in Ithaca growing up, the City was the same size, but the population of the county is probably half what it is today. When I was a boy growing up, Ithaca College had not yet moved up on South Hill, and when the South Hill campus was designed, it was designed for a maximum student body of 3,000, that campus now educates 6,000 students 1500 new students come in every year for the purpose of obtaining an education. When I was a boy and my father and Howard Dillingham and Leonard Job sat on horses on that hillside and looked over where the new campus would be, there was no Longview, there was no Hospicare and there was no Ithaca College, all making demands on resources on South Hill. I've heard a lot of concern given about the impact of traffic, and I hope you'll give me the opportunity, Mr. Matthews, to try to give you at least what I consider to be a reasonable person's view of what the impact of this hotel will actually have on traffic. I know a great many people believe that it will increase the traffic burdens on Route 96B and increase the traffic burdens down into the city. I think the opposite is true. If you can remember and think about the fact that Ithaca College has 23 sports teams and they are some of the best in Division III, and those athletes, the ones that come from far enough away, like the football team from Norwich, which is in Vermont, can't come down,play a game, and go back home. They've got to stay somewhere. Where do they stay? Currently, they stay either on Route 13 South, the Pyramid Mall area, East Hill plaza, or some other hotel facility and in order to get to the Ithaca College campus, to compete athletically, they have to go through the city of Ithaca. The same is true with every person that comes to Ithaca College for educational or conference purposes. Because there is no facility on South Hill for housing these people, there is one choice, La Tourelle, which is very upscale lodging which most people cannot afford, and that's it. So all of these people that come to Ithaca College have to stay on Route 13 or on Route 366 corridor or out 13 towards Lansing and the Pyramid mall where these hotels are located. So, all of the people that come to visit Ithaca College for whatever purpose, have to go through the City of Ithaca to get there and that increases traffic burdens on an already burdened South Hill. Putting this hotel where it is proposed to be located, would in fact reduce the amount of traffic down South Hill because the people that would come there that would want to visit Ithaca College would only have to go a short distance down the road. The same is true with regard to Longview and with regard to Hospicare. Families come to spend time with parents and grandparents, uncles and aunts, elderly in the last days of their lives in the wonderful care of Hospicare, and those families that come in from out of town have to stay more than five miles away and travel through unknown city streets and confusing traffic patterns to get to either Longview or Hospicare to see their loved ones. That problem will only increase without hotel space on South Hill when the Axiohm building is finally developed if it is developed as it is proposed today because when small businesses and light industry go into that building they're going to attract additional people to South Hill and those people will need places to stay. Now I've heard a lot about the intent of the zoning, the comprehensive,plan, and with regard to small commercial enterprises and a desire on the part of many people who 13 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES have spoken both before the planning board and before you here tonight, about putting something like a shopping center, a small shopping center in that site. To me that ignores a certain amount of logic that comes with shopping centers, and I'll use a couple of examples, one the strip between the old Elmira Rd and Route 13 now where a nice family business went out of business recently because he couldn't keep his money up, but that's a long strip mall with a whole lot of shops in it, some are busy some are vacant, and one thing that it has and it has it in common with all similar strip malls, is constant, unending, morning until night traffic, in and out, in and out, in and out, all you have to do is go down to buy a bottle of wine if you are so inclined at the liquor store down there and you will know what I mean. If you go up to East Hill Plaza, which is a larger mall, but a mall nonetheless, you see the same thing, you see huge numbers of vehicles, incredible traffic at all times of the day and night, and that is the one thing that this community seems to be so concerned about. They don't want to have that. So how can you have a strip mall with a whole bunch of small businesses all trying to attract people into their enterprises and not have more traffic than you would have from people that would come in at 5:00 in the evening, check into a hotel, stay overnight, maybe go up to John Thomas for a meal, and then do their business at Ithaca College or see their relatives at Longview, or see their relatives at Hospicare, and they would go out in the morning and come back at night, visitors to Ithaca College would go out in the morning and come back at night. You wouldn't have the constant turnover of traffic... [Tape is changed]... what is before you is a proposal other than the number of rooms, legal in every respect, such that it would not have to have special approval. In other words, if I understood the comments earlier tonight by Mr. Trowbridge, if the developer could, for economic reasons, build a thirty-room hotel, he could build it this exact same size with the rooms just twice as big. So if the building fits within the Town of Ithaca zoning even grandfathered in as it is, then the real question is, what is the difference between 30 rooms and 58 rooms, and the difference is probably a slightly increased amount of local traffic up and down Danby Road as far as Ithaca College, Longview, out East King Road to Hospicare, and a significantly higher sales tax revenue for the town, significantly higher property tax revenue for the town, which is, as I understand it, strapped, all municipalities, all local governments are strapped as a result of a passed down the federal obligations to the states, and the states passing those unfunded mandates onto the local governments. Everyone, there isn't one person here who doesn't know that this is a very, very difficult time for governments fiscally, and this is a proposal which intends to provide relief for businesses on South Hill who need a shelter for people who come to visit them and which wants to provide significant benefits with regard to property taxes and sales tax revenues and hotel tax revenues to the Town of Ithaca and to the County as well. I think that it's important to think of this as part of growth that is inevitable. I think that no matter what happens, Tompkins County which has an unemployment rate of less than 3.5%, 3.2%... Chairperson Sigel—Excuse me, Mr. Light, could I just ask you to try to wrap up in maybe one minute? Thank you. 14 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Light- Sure, sure, I just want to make a couple more points. I've heard people talk about if this hotel is built, then agriculture as we know it will end. I find that difficult to believe. No one knows today what will happen if this facility is built, no one knows what will happen in the future. We do know there will be construction noise, but there will be construction noise if you build a strip mall there. Now, one of the things that intrigues me about this is that if you allow this hotel to constitute and anchor to that corner and this residential area behind it which acts as a further buffer to Buttermilk Falls in addition to the 33 acre buffer that Mr. Auble transferred to the State at less than market prices. It may be attractive enough to attract the very kinds of businesses that you want to see there, and there is another space as you can see on this site plan to the South along Danby Road that is zoned commercial and which would be very good to put in perhaps a restaurant or perhaps a small Tops Express type grocery the kind that you see in College Avenue in a store front,perhaps a video and video store and pharmacy, all of these businesses that people need, services that people need that live on South Hill, so they don't have to go down into the City of Ithaca, might be feasible if you had an anchor on that corner. So, I'm going to ask you to consider this to be an incredible well-planned effort, and effort that was made in cooperation with the Town of Ithaca, it's gone through many changes. I'm a little bit upset with the comment that I heard earlier that at the last Planning Board meeting they reduced the size from 62 rooms to 58 rooms, big deal. In fact this proposal, if I remember correctly, came before the Planning Board with at least 72 rooms initially, so it's lost 20% of the rooms as a result of the agreement of the developer and a desire to work with the Town of Ithaca. I think that the Planning Board was satisfied that the developer has done everything in his power to cooperate and work with the Town to develop a project that will be beneficial to the Town, economically feasible to the developer, and will not have significant impacts on the region, except in so far as it reduces traffic down into the City of Ithaca and back up South Hill from these business, and the 800 pound gorilla on the block, Ithaca College. I know, from my own personal knowledge, that Ithaca College would love to see this development, and I think that it would be great benefit in many, many respects to the Town of Ithaca, and in closing, I would only say one other thing. I have heard a lot of people here tonight who consider themselves neighbors of this project, and are strongly opposed to it, and I respect that. They have every right to voice their opposition and that's one of the great things we have about our government here. But, there is one person above all who is going to be impacted the most if this development is allowed to go forward, and that one person is probably more in favor of it than anybody, and that's the developer of Holly Farms. Because those townhouses and rental units are the closes residential units to this proposed development, and yet that developer who has already received approval for the Holly Farms subdivision is 100%behind this. If this was going to have negative impacts on the neighborhood, I imagine you would think that the person who is closest to it would object to it, and yet Mr. Auble does not. He comes before you asking you to allow this subdivision to take place, this partition of this land to take place, allow this hotel to be built with 58 rooms because he believes it will be a benefit to his subdivision, which you have already approved. I think you for the opportunity of addressing you tonight. I sincerely hope you will provide your special approval for this project and allow this project to go forward because I think it will benefit the Town of Ithaca, I know it will benefit South Hill, and the businesses there and I think it will provide you with an avenue 15 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES for controlled growth, rather than the sprawl that everyone is concerned about. It would concern me greatly if instead of this development, a strip mall were to go up there with the constant traffic that would go in and out of there. I thank you for your time, gentlemen, and I wish you luck in your deliberations. Chairperson Sigel—Thank you. Does anyone else wish to speak? Mr. Conneman - Will I get an opportunity to respond to that? Chairperson Sigel—This is not a forum to rebut what other people have said before the board. Mr. Conneman - There is imprecise information. That is unfair. Chairperson Sigel—Please, begin with your name and address. Ms. Hauver- My name is Melanie Hauver, and my current address is renting in the Town of Trumansburg. I did send a letter last week, I'm not sure if the Board has it, but I apologize because I do not have a formal statement prepared, but after hearing some of the things said today, I just wanted to take a minute and say what was on my mind. I wanted to start by saying that my fiance and I really enjoy Ithaca, we enjoy the beauty of it and we frequently visit Buttermilk Falls State Park, as well as the other attractive parks in Ithaca. We also support local farms and always buy their produce and their products. So I do want to start by saying that these are some of the characteristics that we really enjoy about Ithaca, and the reason why we have decided to settle down here, even though we have graduated from college, my fiance from Ithaca College and myself from Cornell University. We really love Ithaca and have decided to stay. As a quick side note, I'd say that having gone to college here in Ithaca, I can speak firsthand about the frustrations that my family has felt and my friends' families have felt in being able to find suitable accommodations when they're here to visit, and that's not limited to graduation weekend, that's at other times of the year as well. In any regard, we, my fiance and I, have decided that Ithaca is going to be our home, and currently we are looking to purchase property to try and build our home. One of the properties that we are in the process of considering is in the Holly Creek development, in fact, it is the first lot in the Holly Creek development, so it is the one the borders West King Road and Holly Creek lane, the proposed lot, which would make us the closest neighbor to the proposed hotel. I have to say that frankly we're excited about the hotel, the 58 —room Country Inn and Suites and it's location on 96B and West King Road. We believe that the hotel will be a great buffer between our new home and the existing traffic on 96B. I have also seen pictures, the exterior, and I do find it attractive, compared to what else could possible be built there, so briefly I'm just encouraging the board to please accept the plan, the 58-room Country Inn and Suites proposal and know that we support it as part of our neighborhood. Thank you. Chairperson Sigel—Thank you very much. Anyone else wish to speak? OK, I could allow a couple of people, if they have already spoken, if they wanted to say something additional for one minute. Mr. Conneman? Please try to keep it brief. 16 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Conneman - I will keep it very brief. I believe Mr. Light is unfair in talking about strip malls. Strip Mall is an insulting term, and that is not what the Town of Ithaca Planning board would allow to be built at that site, and that's sort of a word that people use, they say "strip mall"... if you've ever been to Westchester County and elsewhere, you know you can build very attractive small shopping centers, and he tended to ignore it. The other thing is Mr. Auble did not give the state of New York that land, he got money for it. If you look at the records in the courthouse, you can determine how much. I don't want to get into a contest on that, but he was paid adequate amount of money for the property that he gave. Visual impact is very important, but with the footprint of that hotel, the visual impact is likely to be a hotel without much in front of it, it is too small to do that. You're not talking about La Tourelle, which is what most people think about. I just think the scale is beyond what it should be. I understand that neither the Planning Board or the ZBA is really involved in looking at economic development in terms of how much taxes something will raise, that's why we have separate Planning Board and separate ZBA so the Town of Ithaca worries about these finances and not these two boards. And so I think those are what I would say are unfair comments by Mr. Light. Chairperson Sigel—Thank you. Mr. Krantz—I would like to make a comment, too. I think that whether it is right or wrong, Mr. Light was very rude in making us listen to him for twenty minutes and then walking out of the room, and I would like to go on record as saying that. Chairperson Sigel—Yes, Ms. Dean? Ms. Dean - I did not intend to become an historian of this process, but by default I find myself in that role, because I'm the one that has come to all these meetings. The young woman who just spoke and told you that she an her fiance, that they liked that place and they hope to buy some land and they're not at all concerned about that hotel, they like the idea of the hotel. It doesn't take a very astute person sitting from where you are sitting to see that that young woman is sitting with Mr. Auble and his family and was just patted on the back by Mr. Auble's female companion. Chairperson Sigel—Please, we don't need you to make comments about where people are sitting. Could you please keep your comments to the proposal? Ms. Dean - Surely. That that is a strategy that has happened at many earlier meetings, where Mr. Auble brings his relatives and friends and they speak in favor of the proposal. Chairperson Sigel—Thank you. OK, anyone who hasn't spoken? Ms. Hauver- I just wanted to clarify something very quickly here. I met Mr. Auble as part of the process of looking to buy some land and I have known him since that time, but I am not a relative. And that's his wife, not a companion. 17 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel—OK, thank you. OK, anyone who has not spoken wish to speak? If not, we will close the public hearing. Dick, go ahead? Mr. Matthews —Counselor, may I put you on the spot? I apologize if I do that. Could you, in your best legal mind describe to me what the term neighborhood means and what it encompasses? Mr. Barney—I think that's really for you and not me to define. Mr. Matthews —Well, Mr. Rogers has one neighborhood and the UN has another one. Mr. Barney—I think we're not in the UN's version. We're probably a little closer to Mr. Roger's version, but it may be a little bit bigger. Mr. Matthews —How far does it reach, I'm having a struggle with that. Ithaca College is in the neighborhood. Mr. Barney—I think the neighborhood... If you look at the general vicinity and you could look a mile, you could look a half a mile around, I think what is the impact of this likely to be, and how far out is that impact likely to be felt, and I think you're judgment in that area is as good as mine. Mr. Matthews —So it's indefinite. Mr. Barney—Yeah. Mr. Matthews —Thank you. Chairperson Sigel—Any other questions? Mr. Niefer—Just one item that comes immediately to mind—as I looked at the proposal and the plot plans and everything, I did not see any outside recreational facilities at this location—I would like to have confirmation that there are no tennis courts, nor are there any outside swimming pool or are there any outside recreational facilities on the hotel site. I'd like to have confirmation on that. Chairperson Sigel—Mr. Trowbridge? Mr. Trowbridge - There are recreational facilities but they are indoors. There is an indoor pool and other associated facilities with the pool, but there is nothing out of doors Mr. Niefer—That would generate neighborhood noise other than cars, coming and going and the usual. Mr. Trowbridge - It's all interior. 18 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Krantz—What are the dining facilities like? Mr. Trowbridge - There is in fact very little dining facility in the building at all. There's limited services at the hotel. Chairperson Sigel—And nothing outside? No picnic table areas? Mr. Trowbridge -No dining, nothing outside the building other than pedestrian landscape and parking. I was just wondering if I could make a couple points of clarification based on comments that were made this evening? In terms of safety, I know that planning staff did require, and it may have been missed on the site plan, a combination of walkways that take pedestrians safely to a signalized intersection at West King Road and Danby road, and also pedestrian walkways that link this project to the Holly Creek project and beyond. So there is a rather extensive walkway system that is a part of the current site plan as suggested by staff. Also in terms of lighting, we did have to look very carefully, worked with the Town Engineer to make sure these sharp cut-off fixtures so it's dark sky and there are no light spillage—what we mean by that is that there is no illumination that would spill off the property and again the Town is quite serious about those kinds of environmental considerations and this project was subject to those. Chairperson Sigel—I wanted to ask you about the signage plan for the property. It may have been on one of your plans, but I didn't look closely enough to find the locations of the signs. Could you describe what you're planning? Mr. Trowbridge - Because also DOT and the Town would like limited access as you know, there is one allowable driveway or curb-cut off 96B so there would be signage at that location,but actually have to be a combination sign with whatever other commercial development would occur on 96 B, because there is one curb-cut. The building itself utilizes the front of the building as signage, so there is a big gable roof in the front of the building and the hotel is announced really on the building's surface. There are some other minor site signs. Chairperson Sigel—OK, so you're going to have the wall sign on the building, and then a sign at the main entrance. Mr. Trowbridge - In terms of entrance, and that will have to be ultimately combined with any other commercial development that happens South of the site because of the limited curb cut. Chairperson Sigel—OK, and you're not planning to seek any variances for signage? Mr. Trowbridge - For signage, no. 19 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel—As I recall, you would be limited to 50 square feet for a pole sign by the main entrance. I believe they might be allowed a rather large sign because that is based on linear footage? Chairperson Sigel—What size sign are you planning for the facade? Mr. Trowbridge - I'm sorry, we did review that earlier on in the process. I know we reviewed that because it came up with staff, and I don't have the square footage, but I know it fell within what was allowable in terms of sign... Mr. Barney—I think the sign size, and we can check with Mike here, and so forth is part of the site plan approval anyway. Mr. Trowbridge - That's right, ultimately, and final site plan approval. Mr. Smith—Yeah, and in the preliminary site plan resolution there is a condition for before final site plan, the sign details, color, lighting size, everything be submitted to... Mr. Trowbridge - And it's our intention that all of those conform. Chairperson Sigel—OK, my concern would just be that the wall sign, is the size of the wall sign capped? Is it a formula of the length of the building? Mr. Barney—It is linear footage. Chairperson Sigel—I'm concerned because the formula is based on the length of the building, it could be quite a large sign. Mr. Barney—I'll give you a shortcut. What is the size of the sign being proposed? Chairperson Sigel—He doesn't know. Mr. Trowbridge - We're just checking that, and we'll give you that in a second. [pause] Mr. Trowbridge - The sign that's shown on the elevation is 12 by 6. Mr. Barney—72 square feet? So it wouldn't be a problem if they chose to grant this to impose a condition that there be only one wall sign and that it not exceed 72 square feet? Mr. Trowbridge - And that's what's shown in the elevation that you received. Chairperson Sigel—And you were planning on having just one facing 96? 20 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Trowbridge - On 96, that's right. And there will be a ground-based sign at the entrance. Chairperson Sigel—And my other question was is there anything known about what is planned for the adjacent parcel yet, or is that still...? Mr. Trowbridge - There is no known tenant for the parcel on the South side, but it has been both Country Inn's experience as we have seen with other hotels as well, that they often times attract family restaurants, especially since Country Inn doesn't provide food service or really minimal kinds of food service at the hotel. That there is a captive audience there. Chairperson Sigel—Any other questions for Mr. Trowbridge? Comments? Mr. Ellsworth—I have a comment about earlier statements. I have not had a long-term business relationship with Mr. Auble. I have never billed any fees nor received any payments from Mr. Auble. I would like to make that clear before I vote. Ms. Dean - Sir, would you be so kind as to explain why you recused yourself at the earlier meeting? Mr. Ellsworth—Because at that time I had a contract to do some work. The contract's been terminated, and I never spent any time doing work on it. That's all I can say. Mr. Barney—The contract had nothing to do with this particular project. Mr. Ellsworth—No, it was for an adjacent project. Chairperson Sigel—Well, I would just like to state for the benefit of the other board members, that I have been struggling with my decision on this and have wished that the project were a little bit smaller,personally, but on the other hand, I don't feel that they miss any of the tests needed for the special approval. I do feel that they meet all of the tests, and so... while I wish it were smaller, I feel that they are deserving of the special approval. Mr. Niefer—Earlier you had provided us with the special approval section from the zoning ordinance and of course, it is what we commonly refer to as section 77,paragraph seven a—h, very specific criteria that needed to be met or adhered to in order for us to grant a special approval. I have listened carefully to what has been said, I have reviewed the material that has been submitted, and from the criteria that is set forth, I believe that we certainly have heard enough statements that would allow us to grant the special permit to build this facility. In weighing this information that was provided and the nature of it, certainly the people making the proposal come with credible information and evidence that I believe justifies their position, and that while there have been a number of people that have spoken as to the negative aspects of the project, the weight of the credible 21 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES testimony comes down in favor of the applicant for the special permit. So as a consequence thereof, I favor the proposal. Chairperson Sigel—Anyone else wish to make a statement? Mr. Matthews —Yeah, I've had a re-evaluation of the traffic problem. I've had a month to think about it certainly. I simply don't know if the hotel would generate more or less, I suspect it might generate less. I have to take into account that if we are talking about neighborhood, I think the neighborhood has to reach down to Ithaca College and the students, I raised three of them, I know they can wear a car out. They generate a lot of traffic. There is a tremendous amount of traffic being generated by the bypass route that has become East King Road to Route 96, because it goes by my home everyday, and that's not getting less, that's getting more. I have re-evaluated the impact of traffic with regards to the hotel, where I'm having a real struggle, and this may be my personal experiences in life, I used to hunt in that area, can't have that anymore. In fact, >I used to hunt on Ithaca College, used to get some good rabbits out of there, can't have that anymore. So the struggle with me is seeing the rural character of the neighborhood leave. There is an urbanization process going on, but also I have a struggle with the folks who live in that area. The woman who is the farmer, there are other people that live there and they like the view and so forth and the openness of it all. If the neighborhood goes a mile away, there are people who own homes a mile a way and a radius of a mile. I simply don't know, I didn't have the expertise whether or not those homes will be devalued by the presence of this hotel, I wish it was in a different place, because it will tend to sit there like a 500 pound gorilla, I like gorillas, I have no problem with gorillas. I simply don't know how it's going to impact the folks who've built homes there and have improved them and so forth. I can't guess one way or the other, and I wish I could close my eyes and pick a hand to raise because I simply don't know at this very moment which way I'm going to go, I'm struggling right now. I sympathize with the people who live there. Mr. Krantz—I also sympathize with the people who live around there, and I know I wouldn't want a large motel like that built right across the street from where I live either. But nonetheless, this is a committee that has different rules and criteria to go by. You're taught not to react emotionally, you're taught to follow the rules, follow the criteria. And there are criteria here that make it really difficult to vote against having the hotel there. In my opinion. Chairperson Sigel—OK, if there are no other comments or questions, I will move to... Mr. Barney—reads resolution below. Chairperson Sigel—Thank you, John. I will move that motion... Jim seconds. All in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 001: David Auble, Owner; Jay Bramhandkar, Appellant; Peter Trowbridge, Agent; Country Inn and Suites, Danby Road 22 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES south of King Road West, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcels No. 37.-1-17.1, Business District C MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Jim Niefer. RESOLVED that this Board finds with respect to the proposed Country Inn and Suites ("the Project") the following: 1. The Project meets all of the zoning requirements related to height, setbacks, open space, buffers and all other elements. 2. The Project is located on a busy road, Route 96B, in an area where a number of other commercial establishments are in relatively close proximity including Sam Peter's Appliance store and Big AI's convenience store across route 96B, a pizza take-out establishment across West King Road, College Circle Apartments approximately 250 feet north of the proposed project, Longview complex approximately 250 feet north, Holly Creek multiple residences adjacent on the west, La Tourelle Inn and Spa approximately 260 feet to the south and Ithaca College with all of its administrative buildings, athletic facilities, dormitories, classroom buildings approximately '/4 mile to the north. 3. The Planning Board has extensively reviewed the Project, granted site plan approval, and recommends that this Board grant the requested special approval. 4. The Town Board was asked to grant an extension of time for the applicant to complete its application process and granted the extension. 5. The Zoning Ordinance permits, as a matter of right, a number of up to 10,000 square foot stores such as banks, bookstores, drug stores, hardware stores, dry cleaning establishment, florists, beauty parlors, laundromat, building supply store, appliance sales and service, and any other retail establishment other than automobile sales agencies. Up to 35,000 square feet of such retail space could be built on the site, which would generate far more traffic than the Project will develop. Further, some of such uses would result in more noise than the Project. The proposed Project has landscaping that buffers the Project in part from surrounding properties and the adjacent roads. For all of these reasons and others, this Board finds the Project promotes the health, safety, morals and general welfare of the community in harmony with the general purpose of the zoning ordinance. 6. The lot is 2.74 acres, the building occupies only 19% of the site, and the access to and from the property is reasonably designed. Accordingly, this Board finds that the premises are reasonably adapted to the proposed use. 7. Other than La Tourelle, a relatively upscale Inn of about 30 rooms, there are no other hotels or motels on South Hill in the vicinity of Ithaca College. Not only Ithaca College, with its plethora of graduations, parents weekends and athletic events requiring visiting teams in many instances 23 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES to find overnight accommodations, but also Emerson Electric located a mile or so north, the businesses in the Axiohm building, about % of a mile north, and other industries need a hotel in the vicinity of South Hill. Thus this Board finds the Project will fill a neighborhood and community need. 8. For the reasons set forth above, with the numerous other commercial and large scale multiple residences in the vicinity, the Project as designed and located is consistent with the character of the district in which it is located. 9. For the reasons set forth above, particularly the number of commercial and large scale multiple residences in the vicinity, is not detrimental to the general amenity or neighborhood character in a manner which will devalue neighboring property or seriously inconvenience neighboring inhabitants. 10.The design of the access, with one way out on West King Road, and a right hand turn only onto West King Road, are safely designed for the structures on the property. 11.Based upon the findings above, and also upon the traffic study submitted by the applicant which indicates the Project will have a negligible impact on traffic on Route 96B, the fact that public water and public sewer are available to the Project, and the Town Engineer had indicated such facilities are adequate for the Project, this Board finds the general effect of the proposed use upon the community as a whole is not detrimental to the health, safety and general welfare of the community. 12.For the reasons already indicated above and based upon the design materials submitted, lot area, access, parking and loading facilities are sufficient for the proposed use. 13.Based upon the Town Engineer's analysis and review involved as part of the application materials, natural surface water drainageways are not adversely affected. 14.The Project does not appear to be feasible at a smaller size, based upon the economic information included in the application for the special approval and related approvals and the testimony of the applicant and his consultants. THEREFORE, this Board grants the special approval as requested subject to: 1. The conditions included by the Planning Board in its site plan and subdivision approvals (excluding the requirement, fulfilled by this resolution, that the applicant receive a special approval from this Board). 2. There be no more than one wall sign and that it not exceed 72 square feet in size, to minimize visual impact on surrounding properties. The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews NAYS: NONE The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. 24 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel—Thank you. Passed Unanimously. Mr. Trowbridge - I'd like to thank the board. I know it was a very difficult deliberation, we appreciate your time. Chairperson Sigel—Thank you everyone who came and spoke and put in so much of your time. APPEAL of Scott Trelease,Appellant, requesting a variance from Sections 221-6 and 221-7 of the Town of Ithaca Sign Law, to be permitted to place a wall sign with an area of 60 +feet(40 foot limit) at a commercial building located at 630 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33.-3-3, Light Industrial Zone. Chairperson Sigel—Hello. Please begin with your name and address for the record. Mr. Trelease- Scott Trelease, 316 [inaudible], Vestal New York. I'm just proposing to put a sign approximately 60 square feet on the building. This is 147 feet back from route 13, and the existing sign [ inaudible] in regards to that and also I am asking the zoning limit of not having any or trailers. [inaudible] Chairperson Sigel—So I see you have a picture of the frame, and then you have a rendering of the letters. Have you not made the face yet? Mr. Trelease- I have not made the face yet. I have the material for the face, but pending this board's approval, I have not actually made the sign. Chairperson Sigel—I think you had stated you were given the frame. Mr. Trelease- Yes. Other than the cost of one light bulb that broke, I have no money in it. Mr. Niefer—Is this the same frame or sign that was there previously on the building? Mr. Trelease- No it is not. Mr. Niefer—This is a different one? Mr. Trelease- Yeah, actually this frame came from a medicine shop pharmacy in Vestal, NY it was moved, and my family knows the owner, and they gave it to us. Mr. Niefer—What was the size of the sign that was previously there? Mr. Matthews —It just said Salino Electric I think. It was there, but it didn't have a lot of letters. 25 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel—I don't think it was internally illuminated was it? Mr. Matthews —No. Is this illuminated? Mr. Trelease- Yes. Mr. Matthews —With blinking lights and all of that stuff? Chairperson Sigel—Internal illumination. Mr. Matthews —Are the lights going to flash? Mr. Trelease-No... Mr. Matthews —Just be glowing? Mr. Trelease- Yeah, it will be on a timer. At my other locations, generally speaking, I have the timer off between 10 or 11 O'clock, and during the winter months, I have it on till approximately midnight during the week, because there is more traffic. It wouldn't be lit all night. Mr. Matthews —No blinking lights or anything like that? Mr. Trelease- I'm sorry? Mr. Matthews —No blinking lights or running lights or anything like that? Mr. Trelease-No, basically... Mr. Matthews —No mobility? Mr. Trelease- Yeah, basically the building is 40 feet long in front of it, and the sign that I have is 60 square feet, which normally wouldn't be allowed in the zoning... Chairperson Sigel—Right, 1 foot for each linear. Mike wanted to say something. Mr. Smith—I just wanted to point out that on your desk you should have different design for the lettering. I believe the size and everything is exactly the same. It's just the wording has changed on it and the same coloring and everything like that, but it's not the one that's included in the packet. Chairperson Sigel—So, you're planning to do this Trux Outfitter lettering? Mr. Trelease- Yes. [inaudible]. The color will still be blue with a white background, the sign is already painted. Actually I'm going to have to call to turn on the building so it fits in perfectly and it's not bright orange or anything like that. 26 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Matthews —Yes, what is this PB resolution No. 2005-004 item a? Proposed sign shall not exceed 65 square feet in total? Is this a recommendation being given to us, or an approval from? Chairperson Sigel—Well, the Planning board acts as double duty as also the sign review board... I think any sign variance has to go to the sign review board first? Mr. Barney—That's correct. Chairperson Sigel—So it has to get approval from the planning board first. Mr. Barney—If it's more than 25%it comes here, if it's less than 25% the planning board can grant that. Chairperson Sigel—They can grant that unilaterally. So, anyhow, they have to approve it, and they have conditioned their approval upon it not exceeding 65 square feet. Mr. Smith—The planning board is just making a recommendation, these are suggestive. Mr. Matthews —Sure they're making a recommendation? Mr. Barney—To you. Chairperson Sigel—Right, OK, you're right. Mr. Smith—They are conditioning on those... Mr. Barney—They're recommending that it be granted with these conditions. Chairperson Sigel—So they're just setting an upper limit which is a little bit larger than what the applicant has stated his sign is. Mr. Trelease- the actual sign is about 61 square feet. Mr. Matthews —So he's under what they recommended? Mr. Barney - When we grant these, we often grant them slightly larger than requested to allow for human error, because the last thing you want to do is grant a variance for 60 feet and have the sign come in and be 60.1 feet, or 60.3 feet and then have to go through the process again. Mr. Matthews —OK, thank you. Mr. Ellsworth—Scott, this is the only sign, you're not having anything up closer to the road that is smaller? 27 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Trelease- Yes I do already have approval for the sign that is existing on the property... Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, that is conforming. Mr. Trelease- Yeah, I think we spoke about that before. The sign was already there and was granted a sign permit for that without any problems, I believe by Mr. Frost. Chairperson Sigel—Right. Mr. Smith—And that one will have the new wording also? Mr. Trelease- Yes. Mr. Barney—With the new wording, we don't have to go back to the planning board do we? The planning board saw different wording, but I assume it's the size and design of the sign that they're concerned with. Mr. Smith—Right, it's the same color and everything. Chairperson Sigel—Right, so Mr. Trelease will have a freestanding sign on a pole by the road. I don't know how close, not particularly close to the road. Mr. Trelease- No, it's probably 15 or 20 feet away from the road—out of the state's right of way, I know that. Chairperson Sigel—And then this sign on the face of this building. And then the planning board here just suggests that we consider limiting the luminescence. Mr. Barney—They were wrestling with it because we have no real measure of what the lumens were, and they were basically not trying to prevent the sign from being seen from the road, but they were also trying to prevent it from being a real bright light that's going to be seen from 50 miles away, because the purpose of it is to identify this. Mr. Trelease- Actually, I'd like to comment on that. That's actually a negative impact, because if it's too bright, you won't be able to see the sign, much as the sun's too bright, you can't see it. You can't look into it, it's too bright. Human beings tend to look away from bright light, not at it. I just want the sign to glow and each bulb is approximately 50 watts. The sign bulb is designed to give a cold start and to work in cold weather. There are 12 bulbs in the sign across approximately every foot. But the panel on it will be practically opaque, you know a solid white. Mr. Ellsworth—It's not clear, it's opaque. 28 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel—Can you think of any way to word something so that we can... subject to some further review somehow? Mr. Barney—My problem is the same problem here as it was there. Lumens are, aren't they, identifiable, you can measure lumens, but I don't know if it should be 3 lumens or 300. I don't know enough about it. Mr. Smith—The sign law doesn't limit lighting, the amount... Chairperson Sigel—Right, I'm not sure, without having some kind of a standard, knowing that a sign that people generally regard as reasonable emits a certain number of lumens, we can't really... Mr. Barney—You can put that in—and say that the sign should not be unreasonable bright, but I would hate to be Andy going in saying this is an unreasonably bright sign. Mr. Trelease- When requesting the sign the other day, and I can work with Mr. Frost... simply removing a bulb will reduce the output of the lights. So it's not an undue hardship for me. You just slide the panel out and take every other bulb out or every third bulb and it will reduce the wattage instantly. Chairperson Sigel—We could maybe specify that it not appear brighter than other internally illuminated signs in that corridor—sort of compared to other signs... Mr. Barney—Like the Wonderland Inn? Mr. Matthews —I think we have to use the neighborhood definition here folks. I think it's called, and I don't want to offend anyone, I think it's called"common sense". Mr. Barney—You know what we could do probably is say that it not be, in the view of the zoning enforcement officer, unreasonably bright, and if the applicant believes that the zoning enforcement officer is being unreasonable, come back to this board and appeal that decision. I think that might work. Mr. Trelease- The point was made also that the lights coming out of the plate glass window, our hours, we're only open till 5:00, so a normal business sense, only the beginning of November till the end of January, when it gets dark at 4:30 or 5:00, when those lights will be on anyway, there's more light coming out of the inside of the building through the plate glass than this sign is ever going to project out. Mr. Ellsworth—Right, because it's clear glass, and this has the opaque cover. Mr. Trelease- The whole front of the building is plate glass, so from 18 inches up to the ceiling is all glass, and the front door is all glass, so there is going to be more light coming out from inside. [inaudible] so more light is going to be coming out of the window, and through the plate glass window than is ever going to be lit up by the signs. 29 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Matthews —Questions, you have businesses in Vestal and where? Mr. Trelease- I have businesses in Binghamton and Endwell. Mr. Matthews —Where is that last one? Mr. Trelease- Endwell. Mr. Matthews —OK, do you have any problems with the communities you're in with regards to signage? Mr. Trelease- not at all. Mr. Matthews —Do you have any problems at all, may I ask you, with regards to responsibility as a businessman? Mr. Trelease- No. Mr. Matthews —Thank you. Chairperson Sigel—For me, with the sign being illuminated, I'm almost more concerned with the hours, and I would suggest maybe limiting or requiring that the sign be turned off between 11 p.m. and sunrise. Mr. Matthews —That's reasonable. Reasonable? Mr. Trelease- I don't want it on, I don't know, I know when I got the business of what the traffic count is, but I didn't get the traffic count—reasonable speaking maybe 85 or 90% of the traffic goes by there between 6 a.m. and 9 p.m. at night anyway, so the few people who are driving by at 3:00 in the morning anyway... Mr. Matthews —You may not want to know them. Mr. Trelease- From an energy standpoint, I don't want to sign on at 3:00 in the morning or midnight anyway. Chairperson Sigel—OK. Mr. Niefer—Is the house out by the road, leased, rented or otherwise occupied? Mr. Trelease- Yes, it is occupied. My best security measure from the outside for my things being stolen, is the person living in that house. It's the best security I have. The rear of the building is just used for storage, having a house and somebody living there. Chairperson Sigel—OK, we will open the public hearing for this. 30 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel opens the public hearing at 9:14 p.m. Chairperson Sigel—If no one wishes to speak, we will close the public hearing. Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 9:15 p.m. Chairperson Sigel—I will move to grant the appeal of Scott Trelease, requesting variance from Sections 221-6 and 221-7 of the Town of Ithaca Sign Law, to be permitted to place a wall sign with an area not to exceed 62 square feet at a commercial building located at 630 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33.-3-3, Light Industrial Zone. Mr. Barney—You probably want to consult Mike on the SEQR. Mr. Smith—You need SEQR I think. Chairperson Sigel—Oh really? Mr. Smith—there's one there, I think. Chairperson Sigel—Even though it's an area variance? Mr. Barney—It's a sign. Chairperson Sigel—Sorry, OK. I will first move to make a negative determination of environmental significance in the appeal of Mr. Trelease for the very long reasons stated in Mr. Smith's environmental assessment form dated 115105. Second? Mr. Ellsworth—Second. Chairperson Sigel—All in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 002 : ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT : Scott Trelease, 630 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33.-3-3, Light Industrial Zone MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Harry Ellsworth RESOLVED that this Board makes a negative determination of environmental significance in the appeal of Scott Trelease, Appellant, requesting a variance from Sections 221-6 and 221-7 of the Town of Ithaca Sign Law, to be permitted to place a wall sign with an area of 60 ±feet (40 foot limit) at a commercial building located at 630 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33.-3-3, Light Industrial Zone, based upon the Environmental Assessment Form prepared by Town staff dated January 5, 2005. 31 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews NAYS: None The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. Chairperson Sigel—Now I move to grant the appeal of Mr. Trelease to have a sign with an area not to exceed 62 square feet in a commercial building located at 630 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33.-3-3, Light Industrial Zone, with the findings that the requirements for a sign variance have been met, and that the light in the sign shall be turned off no later than 11 p.m. every night and remain off until dawn. Thank you. Mr. Barney—You're welcome. Chairperson Sigel—Second? Mr. Krantz—Second. Chairperson Sigel—All in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 003: Scott Trelease, 630 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33.-3-3, Light Industrial Zone MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Ronald Krantz. RESOLVED that this Board grant the appeal of Mr. Trelease to have a sign with the area not to exceed 62 square feet in the commercial building located at 630 Elmira Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 33.-3-3, Light Industrial Zone. FINDINGS: The requirements for a sign variance have been met. CONDITIONS: The light in the sign shall be turned off no later than 11 p.m. every night and remain off until dawn. The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews NAYS: NONE The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. 32 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel—Thank you, you're all set. Mr. Trelease - Thank you. [tape is changed] 33 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES APPEAL of Ileen Devault and Diane Feldman, Appellants, Jerome Stiles, Crown Construction, Agent, requesting a variance from the requirements of Article IX, Section 270-71 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a garage with a 3 foot side yard setback (10 feet required) at 1404 Hanshaw Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 70.41-41, Medium Density Residential Zone. Chairperson Sigel—Hello. Mr. Frederickson - Hi, I'm Jeff Frederickson from Crown Construction. I'd like to give you another piece of paper, is that all right? Chairperson Sigel—Yup. Mr. Frederickson - Should have that on the original. This the practical difficulties with unnecessary hardship. I don't know if you guys have looked at the lot plan, but we would like to build a 2 car garage, they currently have a very small one car attached garage, that is just barely enough room. There is a bathroom inside of that garage and you have to park the car just right and the hood of the car actually will go underneath part of the structure, the bathroom, so it's very difficult to even park one car in. But these folks would like to have both of their cars in the garage for the obvious difficult harsh winters we're now experiencing. Just for convenience and also for safety actually. To build a 2 car garage, if we didn't get the variance, the actual position of the garage would be in front of the house, so as you pull up the driveway, the driveway would swerve to the right and we'd take out most of the front yard to be able to use that garage because of the landscaping and what not. So that's why we're asking you guys to give us the variance so that we can go to the 3 foot setback which would allow the house... would look good—you'd still have a view of the house, and that way, I'm still going to take out a little bit of their front yard, but it's not as bad, and will allow them to have the 2 car garage, and also allow them to use the space in the existing garage for some storage and for a mudroom, which they could really use. Chairperson Sigel—Have you spoken to your neighbor on this side about this and gotten feedback from them? First Applicant—We had spoken to them when we first talked about the plan, to set the garage back, and they didn't seem to have a problem us doing that at all. Chairperson Sigel—Did you ask him for a letter or anything to submit? Mr. Frederickson -No, they just talked to him, and I told them, because I've been through this before, I told them you've really got to make sure the neighbor feels good about it. And they are very close to the neighbor and they talked to him and he said hey no problem, but no he didn't offer to write a letter or anything like that. But he knew about the meting and all that, and he actually, it was interesting, when we started doing the estimate of the whole thing, that was one of their concerns was whatever we 34 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES do, we want to make sure that the neighbor's happy because they are actually good friends and what not so they had good communication with the neighbor. Mr. Niefer—Can you tell us what the distance is from the front of the property to the garage, how many feet? I don't see it here on this sketch. I don't want from the centerline of the highway, I want from the plates that were found on the front of the property. What's the distance from the found plate to the garage? Second Applicant—To the current garage? Mr. Niefer—to the proposed garage. Second Applicant—It's 75 or 80 to the current one. To the proposed one it's 40 something or 50. Chairperson Sigel—It's 68 to about the middle of that post. Mr. Niefer—So the net result is ... 56 feet or something like that. In this particular area, what's the setback of a house from the front property line? Mr. Barney—50. Not less than 25 and no need to be greater than 50 feet. It's the average, but not more than fifty feet is required. Mr. Matthews —The back of this garage is facing the house next door? Mr. Frederickson - Yes. Mr. Matthews —And the front of the garage is facing the lawn? Mr. Frederickson - And the reason the yard is at slope, there's a pretty good incline there, and that is where the yard levels off. Mr. Matthews —And you have had no letters from neighbors or anything like that? Mr. Frederickson -No sir. Mr. Matthews —Sure would have helped. Mr. Niefer—Is the basement apartment still rented? Second Applicant—Sometimes, it's not right now. Mr. Niefer—But it's still set up as an apartment, though. Second Applicant—Yes. 35 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Niefer—So where would the third car go then, when you rent it? Second Applicant—We're planning on keeping, if we can move the garage to where it shows on the plan, then we'd be able to keep one car spot. We currently have a parking area that's blacktopped under part of the proposed garage. And so we'd be able to keep one car for a possible tenant. Mr. Frederickson - To the side of the garage. Second Applicant—On the side of the garage. Mr. Frederickson - We'll actually keep the pavement where it is. Mr. Matthews —The other car would park between the garage and the house, is that it? Second Applicant—No, it would park towards the street from the garage. [inaudible] Mr. Frederickson - In that spot right now there is blacktop right now where it's parked. We're actually moving closer to the house with the new garage. There's no garage there now, it's just a parking lot. Chairperson Sigel—I have to say, I'm a bit hesitant allowing what is a fairly substantial deviation without that neighbor either being here or stating in a letter that they don't object. Obviously it's in their front yard basically, and that's not an insignificant impact for them. Mr. Frederickson - I'm sure we can get the letter, for the sake of... I don't know how you guys do it, but we could call him, if you'd like, and talk to him on the phone if he's available. He's not home? Second Applicant—Yeah, that's why he couldn't be here. Mr. Krantz—Could we approve it contingent upon Andy receiving the letter? Mr. Barney—You could, but he, or he or she, was given notice of the meeting, and presumably if they had an objection— Mr. bjection—Mr. Ellsworth—He'd be here. Mr. Barney—He'd be here, or you certainly might have gotten a letter. Chairperson Sigel—That's true. 36 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Barney—That's the purpose of notifying the next-door neighbors, to give them a chance to say something, and they chose not to. First Applicant—We did make sure, I mean we called them again last night to make sure. Mr. Matthews —I may be off base, tell me if I am John. Mr. Barney—You're never off base. Mr. Matthews —In the field. Thank you, you're a gentleman. Could we put in that that the homeowners are required to put up bush barriers or something? Mr. Ellsworth—They have those trees. Mr. Matthews —Where are the trees? Mr. Frederickson - One tree right in the back of the garage. Mr. Ellsworth—The trees must be right on the line. Mr. Matthews —OK, I see that, but I don't see anything from the road, is what I'm talking about. When I look at this, it's a rather pretty neighborhood, then if I see another building in there, what I see, me, anyone, is a clumping of buildings. So if there were trees in front or something to break up that clumping of buildings. Second Applicant—There's a hill. There's a parking area and then the property goes down precipitously and then we do have several trees planted. We have a row of pine trees. Mr. Matthews —Your definition of a hill and my definition of a hill are two different things. Second Applicant—Well, not a hill. First Applicant—There are three pine trees that we planted on the property line and there are two pear trees in the front area. So from the road you would see two pear trees. Chairperson Sigel—There was a photo that went around. Mr. Matthews —That's what triggered my question. I said the building is going to sit there right out from the road, and what you're going to see is a clumping of buildings, but maybe if it was broken up with some trees or something, maybe it wouldn't be so noticeable. I don't know if the neighbors care. I wish the neighbors had said something, I'd be able to make a better decision. 37 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Frederickson - We didn't know it was required to have a letter, to be honest with you. I thought we were covered, but is it required to have a letter? Chairperson Sigel—It's not required, and if this was just a couple of feet of the ten, then I don't think we'd have any problem at all with it, but since it is 70% of the setback, it is a substantial... Mr. Frederickson - My understanding is you can allow up to three foot of the line, is that...? Chairperson Sigel—I mean, the board could allow you to go right up to the line— Mr. Frederickson - Oh, I didn't realize that. Chairperson Sigel - ...if you felt the evidence was compelling. Did you consider something where you would use your current garage and build a second garage on the side of the house and make a two-car garage that way? Mr. Frederickson - Yup, yup. We considered, but it would still be encroaching, because right now that garage area is very small, and there's a bathroom that's part of it, so it's really congested, and it would still be very close. And actually this keeps the garage away from the neighbors, in line with that house, the guy's house is next door. So by putting the garage ahead a little bit, is actually keeping it away from the neighbors house actually from his side door and window. So this is actually better for the neighbor, but that's a good. We actually did consider that and we drew up some plans. Chairperson Sigel—Because if you brought it forward from the house some, and over, you'd only be going over about one car width. You have almost 23.8 feet to the small addition on the side of the house. Mr. Frederickson - Right, the problem with that is that it will cost more money to do that, because it's an addition now, whereas right now it's a freestanding garage, so price is a consideration, also they wanted to use the existing space of the garage, for, like I say, a bigger laundry area and some storage area. And the other third point is that the garage now is actually farther away from the person's house, which was a plus, the neighbor's house. Second Applicant—They actually have very few windows on that side of their house, and the windows they do have are on the back of their house. They recently put an addition onto their kitchen and it's got lovely windows. And if we move the garage back, they'll be looking out their lovely new kitchen windows at our garage, and we didn't want to do that to them. 38 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Niefer—I was looking for a height of the garage. The best I could figure was probably 18 feet. Mr. Frederickson - Yes, sir. Mr. Matthews —Same as the one that is there. Mr. Niefer—It looks like the upstairs of the garage is going to be set up for storage, too. Mr. Frederickson - Yeah, the house desperately needs some storage, and we're going to have some pull-down stairs to be able to have storage in there. Mr. Barney—Is that noticed? Because anything over 15 feet I think is going to be a problem. Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, I thought it was 15 feet, too. The peak of the roof is 18 feet? Mr. Frederickson - Yes. Chairperson Sigel—I think you're limited to 15 feet for a freestanding garage. Mr. Frederickson - OK, I wasn't aware of that. If that's true, then we can switch it to 15. Then we'd have to do away with the storage. Mr. Barney—270-71 is where I'm reading. I'm sorry, 270-70, "no structure other than a building, accessory building, shall in no case exceed 15 feet in height." The last half of 270-70. Chairperson Sigel—OK. Mr. Barney—You might want to consider coming back with two things: make the application, broaden it out so you get your three feet in height; and bring a letter in form your next door neighbors and come back next month and my guess is that you probably aren't going to have a problem. Mr. Frederickson - Could you say that again, I didn't catch the first part? Mr. Barney—Well, if you want to build something that's 18 feet, this board has granted variances of 2 or 3 feet, and you're not talking a big, big variance to go up to three feet. But the problem is the notice to the public didn't make reference to it, so they can't really grant it just ad hoc, it has to be in accordance with the procedure. So if you come back with an application, or modify your application, I don't think they'll charge you another application fee. Come back with an application or modified to 18 feet in height and 3 feet, and then bring in or get your neighbor to come in. 39 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel—Drag him in here. Mr. Barney—I think that would make them more comfortable with what you're asking them to do. Mr. Frederickson -Now, would it also be an option, because we actually put the storage in after we put together the package just as an option, I think these guys would, I mean, could we also have the building planned and we're financing this. And the financing, once you guys approve this, they're going to finance it and there's a whole schedule there, but we can do that, what you're asking John. The other option is, could we just take it and reduce the footage to what's required of the 15 feet, get it approved, I mean, if you guys approve it, and then go with that? So, in other words, to get it approved we could go with the lower, and then... Chairperson Sigel—Well, the problem I'm having is that one of the criteria for an area variance that we have to make a finding of is that there isn't a means to achieve your goal that would require a smaller setback or a smaller variance. And for me, I see that you have options, other ways to achieve a two-car garage that would require a lesser setback. That tends to sort of tip the scales for me, especially not having your neighbor here or not having a letter, so if I was pushed I'm not sure which way I would vote at this point. And it seemed as if at least one other member was maybe unsure as well. It's up to you, but I think it would be easier for us, and you could get the height you want probably if you come back next month. Mr. Frederickson - So you don't think the height's an issue then, as far as the... Chairperson Sigel—I suspect that if your neighbor is for it, then I think you have a pretty good chance of getting the 18 feet high as well, to the peak. I don't think it would take very long at the next meeting, and we could put you on as the first agenda item. First Applicant—That would be nice. [laughter] Mr. Matthews —There won't be another hotel probably, we hope. Chairperson Sigel—And, as John said, it won't require another fee or anything, and I don't think it won't take too long, and it would be easier. Mr. Barney—I don't want to represent that, because I don't know what Andy will do, and I can't really speak for him, and he got called away at an emergency, so he may want the publication fee, which is not all that great, but I think he can probably live without it. 40 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel—OK, so I can't guarantee the no fee part. Mr. Frederickson - When is the next meeting? Would it be this time about a month from today? Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, about a month from now. Mr. Smith—February 281'. Chairperson Sigel—OK. Mr. Niefer—I find it somewhat troubling that this is like putting a garage in the front yard as regards to the adjacent properties, and my recollection of that roadway up through there and where all the houses are pretty much lined up. And this is going to be the only garage in the front yard if you will, in that particular area. It troubles me that it's so close to the property line, number 1, number 2 it's an exception to the character of the neighborhood in that there are not, in my recollection, any houses in the front yard, or garages in the front yard there, so... Mr. Barney—Take a look at this picture, because you'll find actually that their house is set further back than the two on each side of it, so that by putting the garage in the front, you're right, they may project out a little bit more, but not a heck of a lot, because they're talking about putting the garage, as I understand it, leaving one parking space in that paved area so the line closer to the street is going to run... Mr. Matthews —It will stick out. Mr. Barney—It will stick out, but not much more than the front line of the house next door on the left. First applicant—We'll actually be closer in—their house will still be farther out than our garage will be from the street. Their house will be closer to the street. If we build the garage, if you OK the variance and we build the garage, the front of their house will still be closer to Hanshaw Road, and most of the houses are much closer to Hanshaw Road than our house. We are the furthest distance from Hanshaw Road. Mr. Niefer—If this garage were appended right up against the front of the existing house, maybe it didn't require only three feet setback, it might be more palatable. I realize it requires some additional engineering and configuration and so on and so forth, but it would be an attached garage to the front of the house, butting right up against the existing garage, then it would be more in the character of the neighborhood. First Applicant—We have a breezeway that's right next to the house, that's adjacent, right next to the garage, and we'd have to lose that if we did that. And there are all the 41 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES garages that were just built. There's a garage that is three houses down from us that was just built the same way that's closer to the road than our garage will be. Mr. Ellsworth—Well, the house across the street is very close to the road, it's closer than any of these other things we're talking about. Mr. Frederickson - Yeah, it's hard to tell from the picture, but when you're out there looking at it, I don't think it's going to be out of character, it won't hurt the character of the neighborhood. It's something you got to look at. These other garages are closer to the road. Maybe I should have brought... Mr. Niefer—The house across the street is an old farmhouse, it's been there for probably 100 years, so that will be a grandfather situation. Chairperson Sigel—Well, I would, in any case, recommend that you maybe ask for an adjournment and then you could try to gather more support or at least... Mr. Frederickson - We could do that. I don't want to belabor it, but so my choices are, because I just talked to Ileen and Diane, and they will sacrifice the peak if we can just get this done with. You're concerned about the—we don't have the letter, but I can tell you 100% they talked to the neighbor, they're not here, they obviously don't... We can get a letter if we need it, but we're not required to have a letter though, right? Chairperson Sigel—Right. Mr. Frederickson - But you're saying because it's within 3 foot, and maybe easier to [inaudible]. Mr. Matthews —We have to be concerned for the neighbor. Mr. Barney—Not that I want to take a partisan point of view here, because it's not my role, but if you look at this section, you may not have it in front of you. 270-71, any other accessory building can be up to three feet, that's the maximum that you're required. And as I read this, it isn't entirely clear to me that a garage couldn't be right up against the line, because we allow for a garage to be across the line. So if these folks came in and encroached a foot onto the other property, they wouldn't even need this variance, so I don't want you folks to get hung up on the three feet particularly, because the way the law reads, the implication is that a garage within three feet is perfectly acceptable. Let me read this to you because it's confusing, and I have to claim the drafting of it. I did a crummy job of drafting it. It was me. It's subdivision E, section 270-71. "Accessory buildings. In medium density residential zones, accessory buildings other than garages may not occupy any open space other than a rear yard. Accessory buildings, in the aggregate may occupy not more than 40% of the required rear yard, and if other than a garage shall not be less than 3 feet from any side or rear lot line. If other than a garage, shall not be three feet from any side or rear lot line." So the implication there is an accessory building can be up to three feet, but 42 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES for the garage, it's not clear whether it has to be more than three feet or it can be zero feet, so that's what I'm a little puzzled at here. It goes onto say "not withstanding the foregoing, a private garage that serves dwellings on two separate lots may be build across a common lot line with a party wall by mutual agreement between adjoining property owners provided there is at least one garage bay on each lot." So if these folks got together with the people next door and built a joint garage, they could build it across the lot line. Chairperson Sigel—and then there is unequivocal evidence, though, that the neighbor is in favor of it. Mr. Barney—That's true. Chairperson Sigel—Since they're benefiting from it. So where does the ten feet come from? Mr. Barney—Ten foot is the normal setback requirement. Chairperson Sigel—For any structure..."side yards each not less than 15 feet, except that in one of the side yards a one story garage either attached to the principal building or is separate..." Mr. Barney—Can be within ten feet. Chairperson Sigel—So that's pretty clear that a garage is intended for ten feet. And that's, but that being referred to as a side yard is not intended to preclude it from being in the front yard. Mr. Barney—I think you can specifically have... accessory buildings other than garages have to be in the rear yard. Chairperson Sigel—OK. So it does appear that the requirement is ten feet. Mr. Matthews —Is ten feet? Chairperson Sigel—Yes. Mr. Matthews —From the property line? Chairperson Sigel—Right, for a ... Mr. Matthews —Garage. Chairperson Sigel—Whether it be attached or detached. Mr. Ellsworth—Accessory building is only three. 43 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Matthews —So they're asking for a seven-foot variance. Chairperson Sigel—An accessory building would have to be in the rear of the house. Mr. Matthews —Am I clear? They're asking for a seven-foot variance? Chairperson Sigel—Yes, seven foot less than the required. Mr. Matthews —Neighbor, neighbor, neighbor. Call Mr. Rogers and talk to him. Mr. Krantz—I would vote to grant the variance with the contingency that a letter come from your neighbor approving—simple enough. Mr. Matthews —With a time frame? Mr. Krantz—Before they build it. Mr. Barney—Before a building permit is issued. Mr. Krantz—Or just within thirty days. Mr. Barney—and in any event,prior to a building permit being issued. Chairperson Sigel—Does that seem like a reasonable condition, John? Mr. Barney—Technically, the position of the neighbor is really irrelevant,. But I understand that... Mr. Krantz—It's so close. Mr. Barney—You see a problem getting a letter? Why don't we phrase it that the letter comes from your neighbor that either approves it or does not abject to the building as proposed. First applicant—What did you say? Mr. Barney—Rather than requiring the neighbor to approve it,just to have the neighbor say they don't object to it, which is a little lesser test. First applicant—Thanks, I didn't quite follow. Mr. Ellsworth—In writing. Mr. Barney—Yeah, in writing and signed by the neighbor. 44 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel—Do you know the address of that house> First applicant— 1402. Chairperson Sigel— 1402. Mr. Niefer—West. Second applicant— 1402 Hanshaw. Chairperson Sigel—And that's the neighbor to the west? Second applicant—yes. Chairperson Sigel—No environmental assessment for this one, so I will open the public hearing. Chairperson Sigel opens the public hearing at 9:45 p.m. Chairperson Sigel—No one interested in speaking, so we'll close the public hearing. Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 9:46 p.m. Chairperson Sigel—I will move to grant the appeal of Ileen Devault and Diane Feldman requesting a variance from the requirements of Article IX, Section 270-71 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a garage with a side yard setback of no less than 3 feet, where 10 feet is required, at 1404 Hanshaw Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 70.-11-41, Medium Density Zone, with the finding that the requirements for an area variance have been satisfied if the following condition is met, that before issuance of a building permit, that the owner of the property at immediately to the west of 1404 Hanshaw Road, which is 1402 Hanshaw road send a letter to the Town of Ithaca, expressing that they have no objection to the applicant's proposal. Mr. Niefer—How are you dealing with the heighth? Chairperson Sigel—They'll be restricted to the 15 feet. Mr. Barney—The second condition would be that notwithstanding the application that the height be limited to 15 feet. Chairperson Sigel—OK. Mr. Barney—And the third condition I think you probably want is that the building be built at least 50 feet back from the roadway. Just to maintain the 50 foot front yard. 45 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Krantz—Since he's not here, I think we should say attention Andy Frost. Mr. Barney—Yeah, actually your letter should go to the building inspector, or Code enforcement officer, I think. Chairperson Sigel—OK, letter to the Code Enforcement Officer. Mr. Barney—I'm sorry, director of Building and Zoning. Chairperson Sigel—All right, second? Mr. Krantz—Second. Chairperson Sigel—All in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 004: Ileen Devault and Diane Feldman, Appellants, Jerome Stiles, Crown Construction, Agent, 1404 Hanshaw Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 70.-11-41, Medium Density Residential Zone MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Ronald Krantz. RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of Ileen Devault and Diane Feldman, requesting a variance from the requirements of Article IX, Section 270- 71 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a garage with a side yard setback of no less than 3 feet, where 10 feet is required at 1404 Hanshaw Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 70.-11-41, Medium Density Residential Zone. FINDINGS: The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied. CONDITIONS- 1. ONDITIONS:1. Before issuance of a Building Permit, the owner of the property immediately to the west of 1404 Hanshaw Road, which is 1402 Hanshaw Road, send a letter to the Director of Building and Zoning, expressing that they have no objection to the applicant's proposal. 2. Notwithstanding the application, the height shall be limited to 15 feet. 3. The building shall be built at least 50 feet back from the roadway. The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews NAYS: NONE 46 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. Chairperson Sigel—OK, Unanimous. Thanks. First applicant—Thank you. APPEAL of Jim Clark, Appellant, requesting variances from Article VIII, Sections 270-59 and 270-60 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a residential building with a height of 40 + feet (36 foot limit) with a side yard building setback of 36 + feet (40 feet required) at 105 Southwoods Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46.4-15.41, Low Density Residential Zone. Chairperson Sigel—Good evening. Mr. Clark- How are you? Chairperson Sigel—Doing OK. Start with your name and address. Mr. Clark- My name is Jim Clark, my address is actually Horseheads, New York, but the property in question here is lot 41 in Southwoods subdivision. Chairperson Sigel—And just give us a brief overview of what you need and why. Mr. Clark- Basically, I have two objectives in trying to get an approval for a height variance and both of those pertain to square footage. The first is the developers have put on some restrictive covenants, that say the minimum of 2600 square feet or greater, and this house stands as a two story, without a walkout basement is about 23 and change. The other square footage issue is justifying the price for the size of the house for this location. The most economical way to gain square footage is to utilize areas within the house, be that a walkout basement or [inaudible] garage or something like that. And actually I don't want to build the house higher, I just want to use a walkout basement on the back side of the house,particularly with the lot has a natural slope that direction anyway. Mr. Matthews —The back is towards East King Road? Mr. Clark- The back is towards, yes, at an angle. Mr. Matthews —There's not very much of a slope there is there? Mr. Clark- Actually from the road, if you look on the survey map there, from the road to where that power line is, there's just a little over just about seven feet there, drop, from the road to the back corner of that lot. Mr. Matthews —Oh, but the road there's a berm that goes up to get up to the land, right? 47 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Clark-Not on this particular lot, Mr. Matthews —From the road to the land is level, there's a big berm, natural berm, because the road is lower than the ground. Mr. Clark- On King Road or Southwoods? Well, the whole subdivision actually sits higher than King Road. Mr. Matthews —That's right. Mr. Clark- Correct, correct. Mr. Matthews —But from there where you come up to the top to the land, you're saying it's seven foot rise up to where your house is going to be? Mr. Clark-No, I say as you drive in Southwoods drive, lot 41 is on the left, from that point, as the lot goes back towards King Road, it drops. Mr. Matthews —Yeah. Seven feet? Mr. Clark- It drops more than that to King Road. Mr. Matthews —Well, yeah, but to the level of the ground, King Road is down there. Mr. Clark- Correct, correct. Mr. Matthews —It's not seven feet from that house down. Mr. Clark- It's more than that. Mr. Ellsworth—He's talking about the berm above the road, you're talking about the road. Mr. Matthews —Yeah, I'm talking about the road surface. Mr. Clark- Southwoods? Mr. Matthews —Yeah, I can tell the name of every tree on your property. Mr. Ellsworth - He hunts rabbits there. Mr. Barney—What's the drop to say where the overhead power line goes? Mr. Clark- Well, that's what I'm saying, it probably drops six or seven feet. Mr. Barney—To the power line? 48 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Clark- Right. Chairperson Sigel—From the back of the house? Mr. Clark-No, no... Mr. Barney—From Southwoods road. Mr. Matthews —There's quite a rise from the road to where the actual ground starts, I've climbed it many times. It's probably six feet from the road to where the ground starts. Mr. Barney—The other end though, from Southwoods drive to the powerline, you're saying is about a seven-foot drop? Mr. Clark- Right. Six foot. Mr. Matthews —From the house to the powerline is six feet? Mr. Clark-No, from the road to the powerline. Chairperson Sigel—Oh, OK. Mr. Clark- From the road it goes down. Mr. Matthews —From Southwoods road? Mr. Clark- Yes. Lot 41 is on the... Mr. Matthews —OK, and the road is elevated from your property? Mr. Clark- Correct. Mr. Matthews —OK Mr. Barney—The house fronts on Southwoods. Mr. Matthews —It drops pretty quick too, to your property, to your house. Mr. Clark-Right. The road is actually the highest part, then the lot slopes away. Chairperson Sigel—What's the drop from approximately where the front of the house is to the rear? What's the natural drop right now of the land? Mr. Clark- I don't know exactly. 49 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Chairperson Sigel—Like a couple feet? Mr. Clark- I'd say probably 4 anyway, 4 or 5... Chairperson Sigel—OK, so you're anticipating having to excavate several feet down in the back to get. Mr. Clark- In the front... Mr. Ellsworth—To get the walkout basement. Chairperson Sigel—You would fill in the front. Mr. Clark- To get the walkout basement, correct. Chairperson Sigel—Yeah, to get the walkout basement, you'll excavate, you'll lower the grade in the rear. Mr. Clark- Correct. Chairperson Sigel - Are you planning to raise the grade in the front any? Mr. Clark-No. Chairperson Sigel—OK. Mr. Clark- The house will actually set... we plan to bring the foundation actually higher or more even with the road, because like I said, that lot slopes away, so the top of the wall will be even with the road, OK? Which is going to be a foot higher than the grade there any place, and then the grade will slope away to the back. Chairperson Sigel—OK. So you'll lower it in the rear a few feet? Mr. Clark- Right. Chairperson Sigel—OK. Mr. Matthews —So if I take it right, you don't want to excavate anymore ground in the back, is that what it is? Mr. Clark- A little bit, but I don't know exactly how much. We'll have to dig out some for footers and what not. Then what we do with it, it will just be brought around and spread within the lot. We had the same application on lot 37 last year at this time. Mr. Krantz—This may be a naive question, but why is the ground level 4 inches below the basement floor in the rear? 50 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Clark- That was just in this sketch that the architect drew, that line is shown 4 inches below the basement slab, which is 8 inches below your finish grade outside. Which is what you need I believe from the finish grade to the silt load. Chairperson Sigel—We have already set the precedent, which at least personally I have been comfortable with in this development, of allowing homes to be a little bit higher than the allowed height because there are larger homes going in here with a fairly steep pitch roof and the walkout basement does seem to be a desirable feature. We had one just a few months ago, I think, which was actually higher I believe. Mr. Smith—And the two most recent ones were excavating out to make the walkout basement at least 4 or 5 feet where this one actually follows the natural terrain a little bit more. Chairperson Sigel—No, he is going to excavate several feet I think, below current grade to get down to the... Mr. Clark- Probably about 4, ?I would say in the back part. Mr. Ellsworth—That's for the footers. Mr. Clark- That's correct. Roughly, I don't know exactly. Mr. Niefer—Is this a spec house or is this for your occupancy? Mr. Clark- This is a spec house. I don't know, If it doesn't sell, then we might be living in it. Chairperson Sigel—And then the only part of the house for the side yard setback requirement, it's just the porch that's encroaching? Mr. Clark- Yeah, a little over three feet I believe on the last part there. Mr. Matthews —The setback is what? On the west side of the house? Mr. Clark- The setback I'm asking for? Chairperson Sigel—Yeah. Mr. Clark- Correct. Chairperson Sigel—You can see the porch as labeled as 36.9 feet. Mr. Matthews —There's a house being built next to you right now? 51 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES Mr. Clark- Yes. Mr. Matthews —Yeah. Chairperson Sigel—Any further questions? Mr. Matthews —No. Chairperson Sigel—OK, we'll open the public hearing, as we are required to do. Intimidating the witness is not appreciated. Chairperson Sigel opens the public hearing at 9:58 p.m. Chairperson Sigel—And we'll close the public hearing. Chairperson Sigel closes the public hearing at 9:59 p.m. Chairperson Sigel—So I will move to grant the appeal of Jim Clark requesting variances from Article VIII, Sections 270-59 and 270-60 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a residential building with a height not to exceed 41 feet, and a side yard setback on the west side of no less than 36 feet at 105 Southwoods Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46.-1-15.41, Low Density Residential Zone, with the findings that the requirements for an area variance have been satisfied, and the requirement that the house built as indicated on the plans submitted by the applicant. Second? Mr. Krantz—Second. Chairperson Sigel—All in favor? ZB RESOLUTION NO. 2005- 005: Jim Clark, Appellant, 105 Southwoods Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46.-1-15.41, Low Density Residential Zone. MOTION made by Kirk Sigel, seconded by Ronald Krantz. RESOLVED that this Board grants the appeal of Jim Clark, Appellant, requesting variances from Article VIII, Sections 270-59 and 270-60 of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance, to be permitted to construct a residential building with a height not to exceed 41 feet and a side yard building setback on the west side no less than 36 feet at 105 Southwoods Drive, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 46.-1- 15.41, Low Density Residential Zone. FINDINGS: The requirements for an area variance have been satisfied. 52 TOWN OF ITHACA ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS JANUARY 24, 2005 APPROVED MINUTES CONDITIONS: The house shall be built as indicated on the plans submitted by the applicant. The vote on the MOTION resulted as follows: AYES: Sigel, Ellsworth, Krantz, Niefer, Matthews NAYS: NONE The MOTION was declared to be carried unanimously. Mr. Clark—Thank you. Chairperson Sigel - Thanks. [pause] Any other official business anyone would like to bring up? Board discusses the prospect of having alternate board members. Chairperson Sigel adjourns the meeting at 10:00 p.m. Kirk Sigel, Chairperson 53