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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 1986-10-21 1 1 _TOWN_ OFITHACA_ PLANNING BOARD 126 East Seneca Street 2 Ithaca, New York TUESDAY OCTOBER 21 , 128fi 3 4 A g E N D A 5 700_ PzM-._ APPROVAL OF MINUTES -- May 20 , 1986 6 7 : 45 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING : Consideration of Site Plan Approval for the proposed expansion of East 7 Hill Car Wash, located at 77 Judd Falls Road, Business District "D" , Town of Ithaca 8 Tax Parcel No. 6-62-2-13 .6 . Daniel R. and Heather R. Kailburn, Owners/ Applicants . 9 8 : 00 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of 10 Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed subdivision of a 0 .83-acre 11 parcel from a 10-acre parcel of land located at 130 Ridgecrest Road, Town of Ithaca Tax 12 Parcel No. 6-45-1-13 . Zelaway R. Sawyer Jr. , Owner ; Attorney Philip S. Winn, 13 Agent. 14 4 P.M. SKETCH PLAN REVIEW : Consideration of the proposed subdivision of Summerhill Townhouse 15 Apartments, located in a Multiple Residence District, at 1026 Ellis Hollow Road , Town of 16 Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 6-62-2-1 .122 . Doherty Associates, Inc . , Owner ; Larry Church, 17 Applicant . 18 9 . 09 P.M. ADJOURNMENT 19 Susan C. Beeners Town Planner 20 NOTE: IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD IS UNABLE TO ATTEND, PLEASE NOTIFY THE PLANNING BOARD 21 SECRETARY, NANCY FULLER, IMMEDIATELY AT 273-1747 . 22 A OUORUM IS NECESSARY TO CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING. 23 24 2 1 TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD OCTOBER 21 , 1986 3 4 The Town of Ithaca Planning Board met in regular 5 session on Tuesday , October 21 , 1986 , in Town Hall , 126 6 East Seneca Street, Ithaca, New York at 7 : 30 PM. 7 PRESENT: 8 Chairman Montgomery May , Virginia Langhans, 9 Robert Kenerson, Carolyn Grigorov, James 10 Baker , John C. Barney (Town Attorney) 11 Lawrence P. Fabbroni (Town Engineer) , 12 Susan C. Beeners (Town Planner) , Lori A. 13 Walker ( Shorthand Reporter) . 14 ALSO PRESENT: Andrew Frost, Town Building Inspector/Zoning 15 Officer , Stewart Knowlton , Heather Kailburn, 16 Dan Kailburn, George W. Dengler , Scot 17 Raynor , Zelaway Sawyer , Philip Winn, Esq . , 18 Tim Ciaschi , Tony Petito. 19 CHAIRMAN MAY: Let ' s open the meeting with the 20 forst agenda item, the approval of Minutes for May 20th. 21 Anybody have any comments , changes? If not, do we have a 22 motion for approving? 23 MS. LANGHANS : I move we approve the minutes for 24 May 20 , 1986 . Town of Ithaca Planning Board 3 1 MR. BAKER: Seconded . 2 CHAIRMAN MAY: All those in favor say aye. 3 (All say aye) 4 CHAIRMAN MAY : Opposed or abstention. 5 (No response) 6 CHAIRMAN MAY : So moved . Thank you . 7 Now, we ' ve got a couple minutes before the first 8 Public Hearing. So, Susan, do you have anything you wish 9 to deal with? 10 MS. BEENERS: One thing is how the Board feels 11 about the date for the next Planning Board meeting . I ' ve 12 had some public inquiries about it as well , that would be 13 November 4th. 14 MS. LANGHANS : Election day . 15 CHAIRMAN MAY : Well, you know, let the other 16 members speak, but as far as I am concerned , that should 17 not interfere with us at that time of night. 18 MS. LANGHANS : I will not be here. 19 CHAIRMAN MAY : Does anyone have a problem with 20 it? 21 (All say no) 22 MS. BEENER: We should be okay. I ' ll have to 23 check . I ' ll check with some of the other ones that are not 24 here tonight. Town of Ithaca Planning Board 4 1 Another item is that the sketch plan review that 2 was scheduled for 8 : 45 will not be happening tonight. The 3 applicant expects to be coming back sometime shortly , 4 though. 5 CHAIRMAN MAY: Okay . That was published , so is 6 he asking for an adjournment or is he just -- 7 MS . KEENER: It wasn ' t a public hearing item. 8 CHAIRMAN MAY : Excuse me, I am sorry, you ' re 9 right. Forgive me. 10 Larry, do you have anything? 11 MR. FABBRONI : I told the Town Board last night 12 that last month went pretty quick . So rather than try to 13 do two or three things to completion, I took the task of 14 preparing a 150 item to do list if people want to do them 15 and if they don ' t want to do them that ' s fine too. 16 I think it ' s more useful to get all the loose 17 ends on paper in front of people rather than finishing two 18 or three projects . Things tend to generate so fast with 19 the Town that you can get into new projects before you ever 20 finish the old ones. And we ' ve kind of been laughing 21 around as I go through the whole file cabinet and see 22 things that well, in their own way are important . They sit 23 there idle for two years in the wake of a whole bunch of 24 other activities . Town of Ithaca Planning Board 5 1 I ' ve been trying to pass the most essential 2 things along to the staff not knowing who to pass it on to, 3 so I just have taken my choice and passed it on. 4 As I said the last time, it ' s been a pleasure 5 working with this Board . And I don ' t expect it' s the last 6 time I ' ll see any of you, since I am going to be pretty 7 close by. I don ' t expect to go to many public hearings in 8 the future. I am looking for that piece of serenity . 9 Again, thank you . With most of you, it ' s been 10 probably seven or more years, so thanks . 11 MR. KENERSON : Do you want to have a motion in 12 the minutes to the effect that we appreciate the efforts 13 for the last twelve years from Larry Fabbroni? 14 CHAIRMAN MAY : That would be very nice. Anyone 15 offer a second? 16 MR. BAKER: Second . 17 CHAIRMAN MAY: All those in favor may say aye. 18 (All say aye) 19 CHAIRMAN MAY : We still have about three or four 20 minutes . Is there anything else? 21 ANDREW FROST: I just put in front of you a copy 22 of the letter that is intended to go to all county real tors 23 giving them some background, very brief background , on the 24 zoning ordinance inspections for certificates of occupancy. Town of Ithaca Planning Board 6 1 The letter itself went to the Board of Realtors, which then 2 was distributed to their members, which is approximately 3 the 30 bearers of actual realtors in the county . 4 CHAIRMAN MAY: Okay, that' s good . Do you have 5 anything? 6 MS . GRIGOROV: I can give you the County 7 Planning Board report, if you want. B We met on the 8th. We discussed the 9 Environmental Bond Issue and they gave us a brochure, which 10 I hope you all have seen. I know there was more 11 controversy about it than I expected . One member objected 12 very much. Not much of the money was going to historical 13 renovation of buildings. 14 MS. LANGHANS : What ' s the -- 15 MS. GRIGOROV: Environmental Bond Issue, which 16 was sent to the County Planning Board . If anybody wants to 17 see it, they may . 18 They talked about the new safety building , the 19 jail . There ' s going to be a competition for some kind of 20 art placed in the safety building. They received nine 21 entries and the safety committee will choose the winner who 22 will get 25 ,000 . 23 The other reports that were given -- the Economic 24 Opportunity Corporation is no longer allowed to give out Town of Ithaca Planning Board 7 1 free food . Everything is seven cents a pound . 2 The Town of Caroline reported they are developing 3 a mobile home park ordinance . Because of this, a 142 unit 4 park has been proposed. 5 The main problem with Scott Heyman in the 6 County, he had, at the request of one of the members, 7 brought a list of services which the County performed , 8 which is attached , a long, long list . Some people wonder 9 what the County does with the tax money that they get. 10 The annual budget is 40 million, 7 million comes from local 1)000,000 11 tax. Over 8 million comes from sales tax and I-r6$9from 12 various fees, rentals and state aid over the million free 13 aid going down. So, the expenditure comes to about 500 """fff�JJJ 14 ahead . 15 The County Planning Department is doing a series 16 of informational meetings to explain the search for a new 17 landfill site . A number of sites have minimal criteria. 18 The interest has been reasonably high. There were a 19 hundred people at one meeting. It will rise by a thousand 20 percent when possible sites are made public. 21 CHAIRMAN MAY : Thank you. Anyone have any 22 questions? I think it ' s time now to open our 7 : 45 Public 23 Hearing for Consideration of Site Plan Approval for the 24 proposed expansion of The East Hill Car Wash, located at 77 Town of Ithaca Planning Board 8 1 Judd Falls Road, Business District "D" Town of Ithaca Tax 2 Parcel No. 6-62-2-13 .6 . Daniel R. and Heather R. Kailburn, 3 Owners/Applicants . 4 Whose going to tell us about it? 5 MR. KAILBURN ; It' s under consideration to put an 6 addition on our building to provide a better service that 7 is lacking in the area. We ' re already in the car wash 8 business and felt we wanted to do a better job. 9 CHAIRMAN MAY: Can you tell us what the tunnel is 10 going to be used for? How are you going to use it? 11 MR. KAILBURN : Well, it' s going to be a situation 12 where customers will come into the building . Their car 13 will be prepared by an attendant, probably myself or some 14 employee. Then they will be gently pulled through the 15 conveyor and the car will be washed by mechanical means, a 16 cloth system, which is scratch free, we hope. And it ' s a 17 very simple operation. It' s simple from the standpoint of 1s customer ' s use. If the customer is dressed up as I am, 19 they can stay in their car and get it clean and not get 20 cold, windy, wet, whatever . 21 MS . LANGHANS : The customer stays in the car? 22 MR. KAILBURN : Yes. It will be a real added 23 convenience to what I have, just from our own existing 24 customer basis. I think it will be a good addition up Town of Ithaca Planning Board 9 1 there, 2 MS . LANGHANS : Similar to the one down by K-Mart? 3 MR. KAILBURN: Similar , yes. 4 CHAIRMAN MAY : Okay. Thank you. Does anybody 5 have any questions out there? It is a Public Hearing. 6 MR. KNOWLTON : I 'd like to make a comment that 7 I ' ve had the pleasure of knowing Dan and Heather for a 8 number of years, ever since they bought the parcel of land 9 for the car wash. And I hope that in the future I end up 10 with such good neighbors who are attentive to their 11 business and their property . And furthermore, their 12 concern with what they do for the public, I could not be 13 prouder to have them, not only as friends because of the 14 years involved, but more particularly for the business that 15 they ' ve added as an adjunct to the plaza and to the area. 16 CHAIRMAN MAY : Thank you. Okay . If there are no 17 other comments , we ' ll close the Public hearing. Does 18 anybody on the board have any questions? 19 MR. KENERSON : I wonder if this affects in any 20 way any lot line or square footage coverage? 21 MR. KAILBORN : No, it doesn ' t affect lot lines. 22 MR. KENERSON : No problem with water disposal? 23 MS. LANGHANS : Do you have to have additional 24 storage for water or drainage? Town of Ithaca Planning Board 10 1 MR. KAILBURN : Not really. This won ' t use much 2 more water than the existing bay that is being added to 3 about the same amount of usage there is now. 4 CHAIRMAN MAY : But you ' re adding three new 5 reclaim tanks? 6 MR. KAILBURN : I will be putting in reclaim 7 tanks . The reason for these reclaim tanks is they will 8 probably be using less water . The reason for three tanks 9 is that you reclaim from your third tank in the system and 10 the water by the time it gets there is pretty well settled . 11 You have these tanks cleaned two or three times a year , 12 depending on the necessity of it, you check them and have 13 them pumped. 14 I have a tank there now. Single thousand gallon 15 tank that I have pumped as much as three times a year . I 16 mean, you can ' t -- 17 MS. LANGHANS : The existing one has taken care of 18 the five bays? 19 MR. KAILBURN : Right. It will basically service 20 the four . 21 MR. BARNEY: How far from the lot line is this 22 tunnel going to be? 23 MR. KAILBURN : About 14 foot from the roadway 24 behind or alongside of them. Town of Ithaca Planning Board 11 1 MR. BARNEY: So the diagram I am looking at, this 2 has a tunnel, this is 14 feet from the line here . I guess 3 this would be the south line . 4 MR. KAILBURN : Right. 5 MS. LANGHANS : Where it says existing plaza 6 parking? 7 MR. KNOWLTON : That' s service drive, Virginia, in 8 behind the plaza there. 9 MS, LANGHANS : Right. 10 CHAIRMAN MAY: That would be 14 feet from the 11 most -- 12 MS. LANGHANS : Southern end of the building of 13 the office mechanical area? 14 MR. BARNEY : Not just a tunnel , but the -- 15 MR. KAILBURN : Equipment xoom, yes. 16 MR. BARNEY: Fourteen feet from the -- 17 MR. KAILBURN : That ' s the existing building line . 18 MR. BARNEY : What' s that roughly? 19 MR. KAILBURN: Twenty feet. 20 CHAIRMAN MAY: What is the requirement in the 21 zoning? 22 MR. BARNEY: I was just looking. It looks like 3 20 feet. 24 CHAIRMAN MAY: This is in business district "D"? Town of Ithaca Planning Board 12 1 MR. BARNEY: "Co . 2 CHAIRMAN MAY : Business "D" . Not less than 20 3 feet from the structure to the side property line , which 4 would, if we were reading that properly -- I ' m afraid you 5 would have to go to the 2BA with it. We would not be able 6 to deal with it. 7 MR. KNOWLTON : In a business "D"? 8 CHAIRMAN MAY : That ' s what it says. 9 MR. FABBRONI : You ' re in a business "C" for one 10 thing . 11 MS . LANGHANS : It doesn ' t sound as though it 12 makes any difference. 13 CHAIRMAN MAY: Area, yard and height are 14 requirements given for A,B, C,D and E. 15 MR. FABBRONI : I am just saying you ' re in 16 business "C" . 17 CHAIRMAN MAY: On the corner is business "C" . I 18 thought back of it was "D"? 19 MS. BEENERS : This parcel was rezoned to "D" . 20 CHAIRMAN MAY : It ' s basically that corner , I 21 think. 22 MR. FABBRONI : I can tell you, for ten years any 23 way, I kind of looked at that ordinance to see what you 24 would do if B and C were attached to the liquor store and Town of Ithaca Planning Board 13 1 under separate ownership and more or less took the side psr�y.afer 2 yard , rear yard as applying to the pazamber of this whole v� 3 commercial zone and basically, with that kind of an 4 outlook, took it on a case by case kind of circumstance . �J 5 In other words , if you were within, let ' s say, 6 there was a building 20 feet off the line , you were worried 7 that it might be a concern, but inasmuch as there isn ' t, 8 you don ' t get into the problem in terms of fire areas and 9 other concerns to access adjacent buildings, which, again, 10 for what it' s worth, we kind of treated the east, side 11 yards, rear yards , front yards for this whole collective 12 commercial area. 13 MS. LANGHANS: Well, I don ' t have that much of a 14 problem with it, but I think Monte is right, we really 15 don ' t have the authority to say, "Go ahead" , when it' s in 16 our rules and regulations as to what we are supposed to 17 have in there. It should go before the Zoning Board of 18 Appeals. 19 MR. FROST: What is the issue , the rear lot? 20 CHAIRMAN MAY: It would be the side lot. 21 Is there any possibility of your owning any land 22 over beyond that line as far as access or is this line 23 drawn here really your boundary line? 24 MR. KAILBURN : Boundary line . Town of Ithaca Planning Board 14 1 CHAIRMAN MAY: That ' s your boundary. 2 MR. KENERSON : I don ' t know if it is really 3 correct. The existing property is less than the north 4 property line. Maybe there was an exception made at that 5 time. 6 CHAIRMAN MAY: It' s got a 60 foot driveway. 7 MR. KNOWLTON : The fee of the land goes from the 8 bottom line just below the word flgrass area 11up to the top, .� 9 if you will, of the line above the words existing 60 foot 10 driveway. And Dan and heather own the 60 foot driveway or V 11 have an easement across it. And so ostensibly , they do 12 have that use and that ' s where they paved the road that 13 lies in along side of there. That ' s where that road is put 14 there, that driveway is put. 15 MR. BARNEY: Who has the fee title to the si yfy 16 driveway, this adax foot driveway? 17 MR. KNOWLTON : We do. He has the right of way, i' 18 the plaza. 19 MR. BARNEY : The plaza owns that strip? 20 MR. KNOWLTON : Yes. 21 MR. BARNEY : I think then you do have a problem 22 with the north line as well. 23 MR. KNOWLTON : Why is that? 24 MR. BARNEY : Because you don ' t own it. Town of Ithaca Planning Board 15 1 MR. KNOWLTON : What is the problem on the north 2 line? 3 MS. LANGHANS : Same requirement, 20 feet. 4 MR. KNOWLTON : There is no structure out there. 5 MR. BARNEY: What is this open truck bay? 6 MR. KAILBURN : It' s a slab of concrete, no 7 building . It ' s got a vacuum cleaner on it. One thing , 8 this building or this full extension -- this addition on 9 the side there of six foot, it apparently will never hinder 10 traffic flow or there never will be any other building from 11 the other project coming to me because this is the existing 12 driveway that I am sure is going to remain a service road 13 for the plaza. There would never be what Larry was 14 speaking of, a fire truck problem or any other building 15 that would cause any retraction of that right of way that 16 goes behind the plaza. 17 CHAIRMAN MAY: I think we' re all in agreement 18 with that. That ' s not where the problem is. I am afraid 19 we ' ve got a problem with the zoning ordinance. You ' re 20 asking for something that we don ' t have authority to grant. 21 MS . LANGHANS : It' s a variance of the ordinance . 22 CHAIRMAN MAY: Do you wish to make any comments 23 on that at all, how you see it in the zoning enforcement 24 office? Town of Ithaca Planning Board 16 1 MR. FROST: Looking at the site drawing , I guess 2 my first question is which way is north. 3 CHAIRMAN MAY : Top of the page. 4 MR. FROST: So that' s facing -- the P & C would 5 be off to the top? 6 CHAIRMAN MAY : South . 7 MR. KNOWLTON : That is the parking lot behind it. 8 That' s to the west. 9 MR. FROST: Now, your concern is the car vacuum 10 area? 11 MR. KAILBURN: You see the three reclaim tanks 12 and there ' s a mechanic room and office space. It ' s that 33 portion of the addition, that structure is less than 20 14 feet from the side line . I need the mechanical room. 15 MR. FROST: By taking away that mechanical room, 16 then you have your 20 feet. 17 MR. KAILBURN: Yes, because that ' s what the 18 existing -- without the mechanical room, you don ' t have the 19 tunnel . 20 MR. FROST: That' s not within the property line . 21 The property is the continuing line that goes across here. 22 This scale that you came up with, is this based 23 upon your own measurements? 24 MR. KAILBURN : Yes , it ' s been measured out . Town of Ithaca Planning Board 17 1 MR. FROST: I don ' t know. I guess my feeling is 2 I 'd probably want to go up there and do some measurements 3 myself. See clearly, if he does not have the side yard 4 requirement, the policy is to go by the book and deny the 5 building permit. It has to be seen by a -- it seems like 6 we' re fairly close there. I think I will go up and take 7 some measurements there . 8 CHAIRMAN MAY: I guess we can do it whichever way 9 you would prefer . We can make a recommendation to the ZBA 10 or we can adjourn it and you can come back to the next 11 meeting . Do you want to make a recommendation to the ZBA? 12 MR. BARNEY: You still need the site plan 13 material for the commercial business district. I think you 14 could approve the site plan conditional on obtaining 15 measurements of that so they wouldn ' t have to come back to 16 this Board again. 17 CHAIRMAN MAY : I guess the next question is going le to be who should act as lead agency. Under the 19 circumstances, I guess that should be us . 20 MR. BARNEY: I think traditionally it' s the other 21 way . It ' s always been kind of an iffy matter because this 22 Board has more expertise on site plan matters and the ZBA 23 has expertise on variance matters. Most of the time, the 24 ZBA acts as lead agency . Town of Ithaca Planning Board 18 1 CHAIRMAN MAY : If we' re going to pass this on to 2 the ZBA acting as lead agency, would you -- 3 MS . GRIGOROV: Why don ' t we grant that approval 4 as contingent, that would be construed as recommendation. 5 MS. BEENERS : If you were to scrap number three 6 entirely and put in something to the effect that the ZBA 7 would be the lead agency for this project. 8 MR. FROST: I am a little bit confused. If I may 9 ask you a question. The site plan approval is for the 10 business district. It doesn ' t automatically go to ZBA 11 afterwards for site plan approval if there is no zoning 12 problem. 13 So, I don ' t understand why the ZBA would be lead 14 agency in this particular case . 15 MR. BARNEY: Under our environmental law, our own 16 environmental law, we kind of set up a hierarchy and that 17 seems to be the way it' s been read. When you have two 18 agencies involved, you have to select one or another as 19 lead agency and normally the ZBA wants to select. 20 MR. FABB RONI : I stand by what I said before and 21 that' s this ordinance makes reference to a business 22 district. It makes reference to the yards . If the front 23 yard being 30 feet and the side yard being 20 feet, it says 24 here none is required where a party wall is constructed . Town of Ithaca Planning Board 19 1 Now, if none is required where a party wall is 2 constructed, why is any required interior to a business 3 zone if a rear yard is 30 feet. You can take what 4 interpretation anybody likes, but it ' s right there in black 5 and white . 6 MR. FROST: I 'd have to chew that over . I might 7 tend to agree with that. I think there is a special safety 8 feature up at East Hill Plaza as it is. 9 MR. BARNEY : Occasionally , I hate to do it, we 10 differ in our opinions. And unfortunately , my opinion 11 reading it would be the other way. This would apply to 12 each parcel within a district and you can have a district 13 that ' s two acres or larger , but you still have front yards , 14 side yards , and rear yards just as you would with the 15 residence, if you will, a residence, five houses owned by 16 the same individual , each would have to comply with the 17 side, rear yard requirements. 18 As to the plaza itself, that' s all under one 19 ownership, I assume, so the governing yard requirements 20 would be for the entire building not for -- 21 MS . LANGHANS : So, effectively , it would be the 22 same rule. 23 MR. BARNEY: Except the car wash . Who owns the 24 land on which the car wash sits? The plaza doesn ' t own Town of Ithaca Planning Board 20 1 that land . 2 MR. KAILBURN : Would those yard requirements -- 3 would they be a requirement where the business might be 4 bordering on a nonbusiness? In other words , a residential 5 type area and they pertain to commercial? 6 MR. BARNEY: There are additional requirements 7 there. 8 MR, KNOWLTON : Monte, if I may comment that the 9 Kailburns are looking of course at the weather . Time has 14 become fairly precious . And if I am sitting here looking 11 at it, if you could recommend site plan approval 12 conditioned upon the ZBA approving a variance to 13 accommodate this need in accordance with what has been 14 discussed, it would certainly be helpful to them because, 15 again, sooner or later the weather is going to get worse 16 than it has. It ' s been lovely for the past two days. 17 MR. FROST: You might consider changing the 18 placement of the mechanical room since you may not get on 19 until December , if you' re lucky, for the Zoning Board of 20 Appeals. 21 We have six things up for November already, which 22 exceeds a little bit. 23 MR. KNOWLTON : That creates quite a problem, 24 Andy . Town of Ithaca Planning Board 21 1 MR. FROST: I don ' t know what to tell you, unless 2 the Zoning Board is willing to entertain a special meeting . 3 We could discuss it after the meeting I suppose . 4 MR. BARNEY : I would suggest that when you go in, 5 you also solicit a variance for the concrete pad on the 6 north side. I haven ' t had a chance to really look through 7 the ordinance. I think a structure is defined as anything 8 on or in the ground. I suspect that the concrete pad might 9 be susceptible as construction. You might as well clarify 10 it now so nobody gives you a headache about it, but Andy 11 will research it very thoroughly . 12 CHAIRMAN MAY : Does everybody understand the 13 motion drawn up by John? Do we have someone who would like 1.4 to make it? 15 MS . LANGHANS : Well, I ' ll do the draft 16 resolution. 17 (Draft resolution read) 18 MS , GRIGOROV: I ' ll second it. 19 CHAIRMAN MAY : We have a second . All those in 20 favor say aye. 21 (All say aye) 22 CHAIRMAN MAY : Opposed or abstention? 23 (No response) 24 Town of Ithaca Planning Board 22 1 WHEREAS : 2 1 . This action is the request for site plan approval 3 for the proposed expansion of East Hill Car Wash, located 4 at 77 Judd Falls Road, Business District "D" , Town of 5 Ithaca Tax Parcel No. 6-62-2-13 .6 , with such expansion to 6 consist of a full service car washing facility . 7 2 . The Planning Board at a Public Hearing on October 8 21 , 1986 , has reviewed the following maps : 9 "Additions to Car Wash - East Hill Car Wash" by 10 Dan Kailburn, dated September 20 , 1986 ; 11 "East Hill Car Wash - North Elevation" ; 12 "East Hill Car Wash - East Elevation" ; 13 "East Hill Car Wash - South Elevation" ; 14 "East Hill Car Wash Tunnel - West Elevation" . 15 3 . This is a Type II action which has been 16 determined to require no further environmental review. 17 THEREFORE, IT IS RESOLVED: 18 That the Planning Board grant and hereby does 19 grant site plan approval for the aforementioned proposed 20 expansion conditioned on the granting of a variance by the 21 Zoning Board of Appeals for the reduced side yard along the 22 south side of the proposed building . 23 CHAIRMAN MAY: Let' s now open the next Public 24 Hearing for Consideration of Preliminary and Final Town of Ithaca Planning Board 23 1 Subdivision Approval for the proposed subdivision of a 2 .83-acre parcel from a 10-acre parcel of land located at 3 130 Ridgecrest Road, Town of Ithaca, Tax Parcel No. 4 6-45-1-13 . Zelaway R. Sawyer , Jr . , Owner ; Attorney Philip 5 S. Winn, Agent . 6 MS. BEENER: Mr. Sawyer , I believe wants to 7 speak. 8 MR. SAWYER: My lawyer , Philip Winn , is in court 9 and he asked if you could sort of put my case on the back 10 burner . If not, then I ' ll tell -- 11 CHAIRMAN MAY: I think we can do that. I move 12 that we adjourn it until the conclusion of our next public 13 hearing . All those in favor say aye. 14 (All say aye) 15 CHAIRMAN MAY : Opposed or abstention? 16 ( No response) 17 CHAIRMAN MAY : Next will be our 8 : 15 and we ' re 18 right on time for it. It ' s a Public Hearing for 19 Consideration of Final Subdivision Approval for the 20 proposed subdivision of four lots and open space from a 21 24 .07-acre parcel of land located off Woolf Lane and Grove 22 Road, Town of Ithaca, Tax Parcel No. 6-23-1-11 .112 . 23 Timothy Ciaschi and Ken Autio, Developers; Scot Raynor , 24 Agent. Town of Ithaca Planning Board 24 1 So, tell us about it. Who' s here to talk? Nobody presenting it? 3 MS . BEENERS : Mr . Raynor is usually quite prompt. 4 I don ' t know, he should be here within the next couple of 5 minutes . 6 MR. PETITO : I do have a question about that. 7 MR. LANGHANS : What ' s your name? 8 MR. PETITO : Tony Petito. Is the Town of Ithaca 9 planning on running water and sewer out to this 10 subdivision? 11 MR. FABBRONI : What ' s in the planning stages is 12 to serve the area north of the hospital with water and 13 sewer . However , it' s contemplated that in the case of Mr . 14 Ciaschi , he would pay for the water and sewer that went 15 through his property . It' s necessary for both water and 16 sewer to go through his property to serve Woolf Lane and 17 Grove Place and Grove Road up in that area. 18 It ' s contemplated, it' s at least being discussed 19 that he would pay for the portion that ' s on his land as any 20 other developer would pay to bring water and sewer to his 21 project so . . . . 22 MR. PETITO : Where is this in planning stages 23 right now? 24 MR. FABBRONI : It' s right in the stage of Town of Ithaca Planning Board 25 1 developing engineers ' reports and doing a financial plan to 2 bond for the improvements . 3 MR. PETITO : Let' s say that is approved, can 4 water or sewer go from there say over to, what is that, 96 , 5 towards -- 6 MR. FABB RONI : The water will be on 96 . The 7 sewer will practically be on 96 . The sewer will only serve 8 Woolf Road, Grove Road and Grove Place area, but it will be 9 within three or four hundred feet of Route 96 where Woolf 10 Lane intersects with it. The water will actually go up and 11 be along Route 96 and serve all the properties from the 12 Town Line down to -- almost down to Indian Creek Fruit 13 Farms. 14 MR. PETITO : Why I am questioning is because 15 there is a gentleman by the name of Bruce Babcock who 16 owns -- and we were planning on joint efforts for housing 17 in that area. I was just wondering what the possibilities 18 would be as far as getting water to that side and how long 19 it would take to get it there. And what we would have to 20 do to push it along. 21 MR. FABBRONI : Well , the water , as it is 22 presently envisioned, would only provide a single pressure 23 zone . And you would have to essentially design something 24 that was compatible with that system or provide your own Town of Ithaca Planning Board 26 1 storage tanks as a part of your own project, because at 2 least in the initial stages, the Town wasn ' t envisioning a 3 storage tank up there. We were envisioning a small 4 hydropneumatic zone to serve that area. 5 So, obviously if we set up that pressure zone to 6 provide reasonable pressure to a property at the Town Line , 7 that ' s kind of the elevation that established the cut off 8 for that zone . 9 From what I know, the Babcock land you ' ve been 10 talking about I almost think you would have to take it off 11 into a tank and pressurize it up from your own metered 12 tank. 13 To do the same thing without a large storage, I 14 guess this doesn ' t hit me cold . So, I 'd say if you had a 15 rather large proposal to justify a hundred thousand gallon 16 tank, that' s time to come talk to the Supervisor about some 17 joint efforts on a storage tank up there, because that ' s 18 what it would take to make -- we would like to have a half 19 million gallon tank up there some day, but until a hundred 20 thousand gallon customer comes along , another 50 thousand 21 gallon customer , it' s hard to put the package together . 22 The best way to put it, it' s open to every 23 proposal that could come along at this stage, but what ' s 24 really planned right now is a small hydropneumatic zone Town of Ithaca Planning Board 27 1 with small pressure pumps , maybe three or four large 2 pressure tanks , hydrants on either side of their facility 3 so they can pump it by and have fire flow with the fire 4 pumper and just kind of get in and serve that area without p le-we&al 5 going to the expense of a pump station, even 6 200 ,000 gallon storage tank up there. 7 MR. PETITQ: I see . � 8 CHAIRMAN MAY : Scot, you want to tell us about 9 this proposal? 10 MR. RAYNOR: Where did we leave off? This was 11 many months ago that we were looking at this property . And 12 we' re talking about developing it in several phases and 13 then we narrowed it down to a first phase with the four lot 14 subdivision and a parcel of land set aside for a playground 15 or park use as required by the Town of Ithaca. And what 16 we ' ve done in the meantime over the months, we' ve hired two 17 teams of surveyors. We hired T. G. Miller and Associates 18 in town to do the boundary computation. And we hired 19 Lockwood Support Services in Rochester , New York, to do the 20 aerial photography and they did a map of the entire 30-acre 21 parcel . 22 With that information, we were able to look at 23 the drainage patterns . It gave us a better definition of 24 which to design or think about the rest of the development Town of Ithaca Planning Board 28 1 in the next phases . And in talking with neighbors and 2 talking with the Town Engineer , and the Planner , we were 3 able to get guidance on where to go with this. 4 In putting that all together , what you see here 5 tonight is the final design showing lots one , two, three, 6 and four and the reserved park and playground parcel. It 7 shows the extension of Woolf Lane and DuBois Road with turn 8 arounds that are temporary until such time as the roads are 9 extended and become part of a road network connected to 10 DuBois Road and possibly at some future point where this 11 land is developed. There ' s a provision to bring the road 12 south. 13 Each one of these lots is over an acre and each 14 one has been designed to have their own water and sewer 15 system. This sewer system based on percolation tests, 16 percolation rate is 60 minutes per inch drop in the 17 percolation pits that we dug . { 18 I ' ve touched base with the people at the Health 19 Department and they say with that kind of percolation rate, 20 we do need a sand filter . Also, because we anticipated 21 these homes will be built with at least three bedrooms, you 22 need the minimum 900 gallon septic tank, so we designed 23 that. The tricky part in this was trying to deal with the 24 drainage that had been hampering us on the east side of the Town of Ithaca Planning Board 29 1 property for many years before my clients decided to do 2 anything with this land . So, we were going to be good 3 neighbors about it and of course , to help people out . And 4 we got a look at the situation as it only affects the 5 people who will be living in lots one through four. The 6 people down from the water shed , all the land does is drain 7 in a northeast fashion. And there are some key drainage 8 areas. One is off the end of Woolf Lane . 9 CHAIRMAN MAY : You say Freemans and Shermans have 10 requested that the water be directed to the pond? 11 MR. RAYNOR: Yes. They asked us to direct water 12 to the pond . 13 If there is at times too much water , as there is 14 now, then this can be brought here or in the future out to 15 the stream to the north . 16 CHAIRMAN MAY : This is a Public Hearing . Are 17 there any comments from the public, any questions anybody 18 wants to ask? 19 MR. DENGLER: I am George Dengler . I own the 20 property alongside those blue arrows there ( indicating) . 21 What are you going to put in there? Right now, it ' s 22 traveling right about the way the arrows point. Are you 23 going to put a ditch in there or leave it the way it is? 24 MR. RAYNOR: This is our future road connection, Town of Ithaca Planning Board 30 1 so we' re going to put a ditch in. Proposed road , always 2 has been, so we ' re going to go in and ditch it. 3 MR. DENGLER: You are? 4 MR. RAYNOR: Yes . No piping , just ditch. It 5 will be in the right of way off to the side. 6 MR, DENGLER: Actually , the way it ' s running now, 7 it actually comes this way. My property is funny, but I 8 don ' t have any about up to where that telephone pole is 9 about here ( indicating) . It runs along my property a 10 little bit because it doesn ' t bother me and my lawn is 11 here, so I left it -- it' s higher here than it is here 12 ( indicating) . So, if you ' re going to ditch that, you ' ll 13 probably have to dig through there ( indicating) . You got 14 trees and everything there. 15 MS . LANGHANS : Will you be ditching that now or 16 not until the road is put in? 17 MR. RAYNOR: We ' ll ditch it beforehand . What 18 we ' re showing is what we ' re doing now. That road is going 19 to get built eventually . 20 MR. DENGLER: Are you the architect? 21 MR. RAYNOR: Yes. 22 CHAIRMAN MAY: Do you have any other comments? 23 MR. CIASCHI : I want to ask Larry -- I wasn ' t 24 here , I was right in the middle, the sewer and water -- I Town of Ithaca Planning Board 31 1 talked to Susan the other day about it, about this sewer 2 and water . What exactly takes place? 3 MR. FABB RONI : That' s obviously left for you and 4 Noel to discuss in more detail , but it' s on the same 5 premise that we expect every developer to put in his own 6 utilities . So, it' s really not treating you any 7 differently from anybody else in the Town. 8 MS . BEENERS : We need to get some kind of 9 commitment from Tim if we ' re going to proceed with our 10 plans for going farther than just DuBois. 11 MR. FABBRONI : It calls for cooperation when 12 you ' re out to be able to get sewer to Grove Road, Grove 13 Place and Woolf Lane to get the water for the same area on 14 Trumansburg Road . But I might say, it wasn ' t planned in 15 total ignorance of your project either . 16 If you would have been any other farm up there 17 with no potential of any kind, we might have looked for a 18 more expeditious way to serve the area we were looking at 19 so, in that respect, it' s to suit your purposes a hundred 20 percent in terms of what' s planned and whether you choose 21 to do it yourself or work with something. 22 I 'd say , in my opinion, you ' re getting your 23 money ' s worth. You know, the sewer , just following the 24 line , the sewer could have been 500 feet down DuBois Road Town of Ithaca Planning Board 32 1 and you would have to go where it is. 2 In this case , it ' s in essence right on your 3 property line . The sewer is projected to come on the deep 4 side and pick up all those houses . 5 MR. BARNEY : Right along DuBois Road . 6 MR. RAYNOR: Then it ' s going to come up and 7 essentially follow this pattern to pick up Grove Road here 8 and to pick up Woolf Lane here ( indicating) . It' s all up 9 hill. In other words , Woolf Lane is down hill . This way , 10 there ' s no way other than to come by gravity or to have a 11 pump station here and pump back up to some place. So, 12 knowing what his roadway constrictions would be , the plan 13 would be to come up through here with one sewer line and 14 through here with the other sewer line . 15 The way the roads are constructed right now for 16 turn around , they ' re level . They don ' t continue as they 17 showed with topography, but the turn arounds, that' s what 18 these areas right here and here are. In order to make the 19 road extension work, we have to go beyond the property line 20 at least 50 feet to cut down into the slope to make the 21 road work without a sudden dip down like that, make the cut 22 back down gradually. 23 Is that something we need a special -- can we go 24 back and -- Town of Ithaca Planning Board 33 1 MR. FABBRONI : You just get a road opening 2 permit. That ' s something you can -- I ' d say the Town would 3 want you to make it gradual. Just get a highway opening 4 permit, do what you need to in conjunction with the highway 5 superintendent . 6 CHAIRMAN MAY: We have to have those for 7 emergency vehicles. 8 MS. LANGHANS : How large is the turn around going 9 to be? It looks more like, rather than a turn around , like 10 a K-turn. 11 MR. RAYNOR: Well, it' s 25 feet wide by 20 feet. 12 Anything on the east side of this vehicle could back up and 13 pull out. 14 MR. BARNEY: Do we have specs on this? 15 MR. FABBRONI : This is the preferred turn around . 16 We prefer the hammer head , which is what this is. 17 CHAIRMAN MAY : Do we have a 60 foot requirement 18 in there so we can turn around an emergency vehicle? 19 MR. FABBRONI : I 'd have to check in the 20 subdivision regs . 21 MR. RAYNOR: I guess at a time when we ' re 22 building the road , it could be 60 . I thought they were 23 going to be hammer head. 24 CHAIRMAN MAY : Are there any other comments from Town of Ithaca Planning Board 34 1 the public? If not -- 2 MR. BARNEY : Can I ask a question? Would you 3 have any objection, Tim, granting the Town an easement for 4 the installation of water and sewer lines as a condition of 5 getting the subdivision approval? 6 MR. CIASCHI : In other words , you just want to go 7 out there and put your lines in is what you ' re telling me? 8 MR. BARNEY: I suspect it might come to where we 9 would like you to put the lines in on your subdivision, 10 given what ' s in the works in the planning, right now. I 11 think if it' s being laid out as Larry suspects , partly 12 because of the possibility of the subdivision, it leaves 13 Woolf Lane and Grove Road, the existing one, kind of 14 hanging there because they choose not to go up that way , 15 figuring they would come through you. 16 As an attorney, I don' t want to get in a 17 situation that what ' s been figured on and then all of a 18 sudden somebody comes to you, "Sign this easement so we can 19 put water lines and sewer lines. " And you say, "I want 20 some money for it, " and this thing and other thing . If 21 we' re going to have a problem, we want to find it out now. 22 MR. CIASCHI : No, you won ' t have any problem. 23 Put it through there, please . 24 CHAIRMAN MAY: We do need to add that to the Town of Ithaca Planning Board 35 1 draft resolution then. z MS. BEENERS : Changing the subject, I have a 3 letter I 'd like to read or at least enter the gist of it 4 into the record . This is something received from Kenneth 5 Riemer of Ulysses Planning Board on April 4th, which was 6 like three days after you last saw this project. I will 7 pass copies around to you. It concerns -- well, part of 8 it, as you can read, presently, there ' s an existing letter . 9 Reading , "The Town of Ulysses Planning Board held a Public 10 Hearing on the Ciaschi-Autio Subdivision and heard comments 11 from neighbors. 12 The Board ' s primary concern is in regard to the 13 drainage situation. Presently, there is an existing 14 problem in that run-off from the Grove Road area presently 15 runs east and northeast causing seasonal flooding problems 16 on the properties of Jack and Magdalen Decker ( 9-33-3-16) 17 and Roger Lunger ( 9-33-3-15) . The water flows across the 18 rear of the Decker property crossing onto the Lunger 19 property apparently causing extensive damage to the 20 driveway each year . 21 Any engineering studies should include a detailed 22 look at the run-off for the entire final project . We are 23 worried that these run-off problems will be aggravated when 24 development begins. There is also some doubt that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board 36 1 proposed ditching for the northern part of the project 2 could work due to the topography . 3 It would seem that the recommendations of a 4 qualified engineer could address these problems and we 5 would appreciate your expressing our concerns to whomever 6 does this study. " 7 M5. BEENER: It' s my feeling that the 8 improvements that are proposed as far as intercepting and 9 channeling the water from Grove in these locations is 10 adequate at this time and that in any further subdivision 11 drainage would be a matter of course to be evaluated. 12 CHAIRMAN MAY: Again, let me close the Public 13 Hearing and bring it back to the Board for further 14 discussion. We need to add a further condition. 15 MS. LANGHANS : Scot, you said you were going to 16 leave the northern part of the property just the way it is? 17 I mean, let the way it drains -- does it drain towards the 18 right when you talk about it? I thought you meant it was 19 going to drain the other way . 20 MR. RAYNOR: Well, everything goes up. It would 21 be on the effect we' re picking up all this water here, a 22 low spot here, we ' ve got several others that are being 23 picked up and channeled either to the pond or to ---- 24 MS. LANGHANS : What about that northern point on Town of Ithaca Planning Board 37 1 top. How does that drain now? Does it drain towards the 2 Lunger and Decker property? 3 MR. RAYNOR: Lower to here coming from Stevenson. 4 It goes right through there. There' s another -- there ' s a 5 low spot and the other is fairly flat, but like a 5 percent 6 slope down hill . 7 MS . LANGHANS : Where you will be working, that 8 aggravation will be going towards the pond? 9 MR. RAYNOR: Or DuBois Road . We' re aware of the 10 problems they ' re having. I ' ve seen photographs of thawing 11 in the spring. That will have to be worked on later when 12 you work up there. 13 CHAIRMAN MAY : Again, I would like to ask about 14 that road . Is that 50 feet? 15 MR. FABB RONI : There is a pre-existing 50 feet. 16 The board has accepted that as the right of way . In other 17 words -- 18 MR. DENGLER : In other words , they have a 14 grandfather on that? 20 MR. RAYNOR: That' s right. 21 MR. BARNEY : I think we should add to the 22 resolution that you have in front of you that Sue prepared , 23 a new paragraph five where it would state that the Town of 24 Ithaca is presently designing sewer and water systems in Town of Ithaca Planning Board 38 1 such a manner as to include service for this area. Then 2 add to the granting subdivision approval the phrase 3 conditional upon the developer providing to the Town of 4 Ithaca an easement or easements satisfactory to the Town 5 Supervisor , Town Engineer , and Town Attorney for placement 6 of water and sewer lines from DuBois Road to Woolf Lane and 7 Grove Road, it being understood that by accepting such 8 easements , the Town is not obligated to construct such 9 line . 10 Any difficulty with that? It being understood 11 that by accepting such easement, the Town is not obligated 12 to construct such lines . 13 MR. CIASCHI : You bring it to my door step and 14 you say you take it from there? 15 MR. BARNEY : You will give the Town an easement 16 to get from DuBois? By giving of that easement the Town is 17 not saying we' re definitely going to construct it. When 18 the time comes and we reach that point, there probably will 19 be some discussion if you ' re at the stage you are right 20 now. We ' ll be able to subdivide with some smaller lots and 21 give more lots there. They will be improved with water and 22 sewer when the owner subdivides. 23 MR. CIASCHI : That won ' t happen here. They will 24 all be over an acre . You get big acres and cutting up. I Town of Ithaca Planning Board 39 1 am just telling you it will look like a checker board . It 2 will look like hell . I am not going to do it. I have 17 3 installed for Mr. Riemer and me. I am going to live in the 4 area. It ' s not going to be a -- 5 MR. BARNEY: We get an easement when we get to 6 that point where the thing may be constructed. The onus of 7 the building may fall on you any way . 8 MR. CIASCHI : Mm-mm. 9 CHAIRMAN MAY : Do you understand , Tim? 10 MR. CIASCHI : Yes . 11 CHAIRMAN MAY: Would somebody like to make a 12 motion? 13 MR. KENERSON : I don ' t have John ' s notes. 14 CHAIRMAN MAY: Move with the modification. 15 MR. KENERSON : I move the draft resolution with 16 the modifications that have been presented tonight. 17 CHAIRMAN MAY: Do we have a second? 18 MS. GRIGOROV: Second . 19 CHAIRMAN MAY : All those in favor say aye. 20 (All say aye) 21 CHAIRMAN MAY: Opposed or abstention? 22 (No response) 23 CHAIRMAN MAY: Okay , so moved . So, that does 24 bring the final subdivision approval with certain Town of Ithaca Planning Board 40 1 modifications and requirements. 2 WHEREAS : 3 1 . This action is the subdivision of Town of Ithaca 4 Tax Parcel No. 6-23-1-11 .112 into five parcels of 1 .09 5 acres, 1 .12 acres, 1 .56 acres, 1 .70 acres, and 15 .76 acres, 6 respectively , and into a 2 .84-acre parcel reserved for Town 7 park/playground purposes . 8 2 . The Planning Board made a negative determination 9 of environmental significance and granted Preliminary 10 Subdivision Approval to such subdivision as it was 11 presented at a Public Hearing on April 1 , 1986 , subject to 12 the following conditions : 13 a. That the Final Subdivision Plat, or other 14 submitted document, show the location of all drainageways 15 including a drainage ditch from the extensions of Woolf 16 Lane and Grove Road to DuBois Road , and 17 b. That the developer provide a complete 18 engineering drainage study showing the runoff and the 19 manner of any additional surface runoff, if created by the 20 subdivision. 21 3 . The Planning Board at a Public Hearing on October 22 21 , 1986 , reviewed a map entitled "Deer Oaks Residential 23 Subdivision, Phase I - Site Plan, Details, and Notes, dated 24 October , 1986 , by Scot Raynor , A. S.L.A. Town of Ithaca Planning Board 41 1 4 . The drainage plan for Phase I of this subdivision 2 as proposed is satisfactory to the Town Engineer . 3 5 . The Town of Ithaca is presently designing sewer 4 and water systems in such a manner as to include services 5 for this area. 6 THEREFORE, IT IS RESOLVED: 7 1. That the Planning Board waive and hereby does 8 waive certain requirements for Final Subdivision Approval , 9 having determined from the materials presented that such 10 waiver will result in neither a significant alteration of 11 the purpose of subdivision control nor the policies 12 enunciated or implied by the Town Board . 13 2 . That the Planning Board grant and hereby does 14 grant Final Subdivision Approval for this subdivision as 15 presented and described on the aforementioned map, 16 conditional upon the developer providing to the Town of 17 Ithaca an easement or easements satisfactory to the Town 18 Supervisor , Town Engineer , and Town Attorney for placement 19 of water and sewer lines from DuBois Road to Woolf Lane and 20 Grove Road, it being understood that by accepting such 21 easements the Town is not obligated to construct such 22 lines. 23 CHAIRMAN MAY : Now, let us go back to our 8 : 00 24 Public Hearing. So, let us reopen the Adjourned Public Town of Ithaca Planning Board 42 1 Hearing , the matter of Mr . Sawyer and proceed, Mr . Winn . 2 MR. WINN : I apologize for being late . 3 Mr. Sawyer is the owner of the 9 .9-acre parcel on 4 Ridgecrest Road . What he hopes to do is subdivide a 5 .83-acre parcel out of the larger parcel . The purpose of 6 this is basically to construct a one-family dwelling on the 7 .83-acre parcel to be occupied by Mr . Sawyer . 8 At least to maintain ownership of this, Tom plans 9 to subdivide it. Mr. Sawyer has gone to the bank to 10 construct a loan and he doesn ' t want to give the bank the 11 whole thing . He wants to cut off a fee. I believe it does 12 comply with all the zoning regulations. 13 CHAIRMAN MAX : He has the right to build one 14 house . 15 MS. LANGHANS : How come it' s sort of a -- not a 16 square lot? 17 MR. WINN : The surveyor that came up with this 18 proposal just wanted to leave enough frontage for future 19 adequate access to the west . 20 CHAIRMAN MAY: Why didn ' t he make a hundred foot 21 of frontage? 22 MR. SAWYER: Because the house is sitting so far 23 back from the road , he said you had -- 24 MR. WINN : There is a set back line . The reason Town of Ithaca Planning Board 43 1 being -- 2 CHAIRMAN MAY : A hundred foot of road frontage? 3 MR. WINN : Measured from the side back line is my 4 understanding . 5 MS . LANGHANS : 99 .17? 6 MR. WINN : Well, that ' s the street right of way 7 line you ' re looking at. There ' s the set back for the house 8 in this particular case is far to the -- 9 MS . LANGHANS : But every other lot has 100 feet. 10 CHAIRMAN MAY: I don ' t quite understand why he 11 angled this line the way he did . I don ' t see what the 12 benefit of that is. 13 MR. WINN : The gas line makes that one area. 14 Basically , the idea is to allow specific frontage 15 here for another lot 473 feet if Mr. Sawyer or the future 16 owner wanted to develop this area to the west , it would 17 allow room for a road of such width . 18 MR. BARNEY: Phil , is this an H frame power line? 19 MR. WINN : That ' s the power line . 20 MS . LANGHANS : What' s the 473 feet all the way to 21 this point? 22 MR. WINN : All the way to the property line . 23 MS. LANGHANS : Do you know what the distance is 24 to this line? Town of Ithaca Planning Board 44 1 MR. FABBRONI : It shows on the other map there. 2 It' s roughly , I 'd say it ' s roughly 75 feet less than that. 3 I mean, just a ballpark term, probably 260 feet. 4 MS. LANGHANS : So, you could get two, hundred 5 foot lots or a 60 foot road? 6 MR. FABBRONI : Going on the basis to get a 7 hundred foot right of way if that was 80 feet, then you ' re 8 down, you know, then you ' re down to 254 at the dimension . 9 I think without going out there and knowing the exact 10 distance from the corner to that power right of way , that ' s 11 what they ' re telling you here. They figured out they need 12 probably 295 on the center line and then 60 foot to stay 13 clear of this hundred foot right of way. I am not trying 14 to put words in your mouth , but -- 15 MR. WINN : But you ' re saying it correctly . 16 MR. BARNEY: What' s going to happen with the 17 shed? 18 MR. WINN : The shed is going to go. The shed 19 will be knocked down or moved, I am not sure. 20 CHAIRMAN MAY : Okay . It is a Public Hearing . I 21 assume there ' s no one speaking for or against it. So, let 22 me close the Public Hearing and bring it back to the Board 23 for any other questions to Mr. Sawyer or Mr . Winn . If not, 4 let us deal with the Short Environmental Assessment form. Town of Ithaca Planning Board 45 1 It ' s hard to see how it ' s going to have any 2 negative impact . 3 MS. BEENERS : Well , I guess there was one 4 condition I placed in the short EAF and draft resolution 5 is, one , that can be removed now and that' s the thing 6 conditional upon amendment of the map, suitable for filing , 7 to show the remaining frontage on the parcel . And that 8 correction has been made and we have been supplied with an 9 additional map too. So, the one condition remaining, I 10 would recommend, is that access be provided to adjacent 11 lands upon any further subdivision of adjacent parcel . 12 MS. LANGHANS : On this gas and electric 13 transmission line right of way bit, nothing can be 14 constructed, not even a road on that. 15 CHAIRMAN MAY : Roads can be constructed. 16 MR. FABBRONI : They don ' t allow -- they will tell 17 you they don ' t allow roads within that hundred feet. 18 CHAIRMAN MAY : But it isn ' t true. 19 MR. FABBRONI : I mean, they ' ll let you cross 20 under it, but you don ' t want them running parallel . 21 CHAIRMAN MAY: You can build a road on it, but as 22 far as building a road on it, the easement don ' t 23 prohibit -- 24 MR. BARNEY : Some of these had frame easements Town of Ithaca Planning Board 46 1 which are a little more rigorous than state electric and 2 gas routing line . 3 MS . LANGHANS : What I was thinking, you could 4 make two lots that were right next to each other and then 5 going back straight, the way the angle of the easement 6 goes, that it would just be a short part of the road that 7 would be in the easement, you know, that ' s why I asked. 8 MR. FABBRONI : The other thing, what I was trying 9 to get at, they might let you go on the other side across 10 here and crossing under , obviously is no problem. In any 11 case, they ' ll even move the poles for you. 12 CHAIRMAN MAY : Phil , may I ask a question? The 13 access to the adjacent land , what does that mean? Does it 14 mean all the adjoining piece or pieces in the ten acres? 15 MS . LANGHANS : There was an idea of coming in 16 across this way and coming across which would open lots up 17 on both sides and also could be extended to the back of the 18 sewer which could open up lots that way. 19 MR. FABBRONI : It could go either of two ways on 20 this parcel . I mean, just straight through and out. 21 Remember Chase ' s development from years ago. There ' s a 22 right of way here. In other words , it ' s hard to tell until 23 the things unfold. 24 MS . LANGHANS : But you don ' t want to block it out Town of Ithaca Planning Board 47 1 completely . 2 MR, FABBRONI : Whether you want to come through 3 here to develop that or whether you want to go through 4 here. 5 MR. BARNEY: Phil , is there some reason why the 6 surveyor couldn ' t move that up on the south side 83 7 hundredths of a foot to give you a hundred foot across the 8 line of the road? 9 MR. WINN : I am not sure what is in the center 10 line of the road . I understand the theory . I don ' t know 11 the answer to your question. The . 87 would adjust. 12 MR. SAWYER: Robert Russler is the surveyor , and 13 after we went to put the house on a piece of property, he 14 said you had to have access to the rear of the property 15 because that means your getting into subdividing . He 16 measured from one corner to the other . This is how it has 17 to be and later on anything that happened if anyone were to 18 buy any, they couldn ' t get to the rear of the property, 19 it' s kind of worthless to you if you have to get back to 20 this piece and you have to have access to get to the rear 21 of the property . You have to give room for the road if you 22 ever want to do that. 23 MR. BARNEY : I understand that. The question I 24 have -- Town of Ithaca Planning Board 48 1 MR. SAWYER: He measured it off , he did it twice . 2 MR. BARNEY: How did he get the 99 .17? 3 MR. WINN : I asked him to add a further 4 dimension, to add a clarification, the original map only 5 had 95 shown. 6 MR. BARNEY: I have a little difficulty . I 7 realize the interpretation you make may very well be 8 correct, but if you read that interpretation a little, 9 every lot would have to be a depth of 250 feet, set back 10 150 feet if you read that the same way . I don ' t think we 11 read it that way . 12 CHAIRMAN MAY : 83 hundredths of a foot is going 13 to make that 60 foot right of way? 14 MR. WINN : I did read it at the set back line and 15 gave the benefit of the doubt to the Town saying, well , 16 that' s the average one , not this particular house and still 17 that is according to Mr . Russler , that ' s a few inches from 18 this point . 19 CHAIRMAN MAY: It seems kind of crazy to cut it 20 at this 99 .17 . 21 MR. WINN : I believe there was a reason for it. 22 MR. BARNEY: Reason for this, it happened to come 23 up to 99 .96 . Then the question is, what did it really have 24 to be, 99 feet, it would be 95 .83 feet in which event, you Town of Ithaca Planning Board 49 1 would have to move . 83 feet at least . 2 MR. WINN : I don ' t have an answer . You have to 3 make a revision, obviously . 4 CHAIRMAN MAY: I think we ' ve been using road 5 frontages in most instances. 6 MR. WINN : I don ' t know what difference it would 7 make, 25 .3 or 99 .1 is not exactly accurate. I don' t know 8 if it would be longer or shorter , because of differences 9 from the center line from the pipe on the north and south . 10 Basically, that was added for a reference bar . 11 Technically, we should have a map that shows us a hundred 12 feet width . Surmising from the shape of the lot, it 13 doesn ' t show that but since the surveyor says there is 100 14 feet at the back assuming interpretation the way we should 15 be doing . I don ' t think we ever drifted that much before. 16 Most have come in with a survey showing a lot hundred feet 17 from the road front or parallelogram or rectangle. We know 18 we have a problem. There' s a hundred feet on the road 19 front, not a hundred feet anywhere else on the lot. 20 MS. LANGHANS : I would think it would be much 21 easier for the surveyor to make a nice rectangle. 22 CHAIRMAN MAY : Do you think we need another map 23 then? 24 MR. BARNEY: No. Town of Ithaca Planning Board 50 1 MR. KENERSON : This state hasn ' t been drawn yet 2 has it? 3 MR WINN : It ' s drawn, but it ' s subject to change 4 as everything is subject to change . 5 MR. BARNEY: Are you going to mortgage the 6 property? 7 MR. WINN : The Trust Company took a mortgage on S the entire 9 .9 acres with the exception that upon a permit 9 being issued or subdivision being granted for this 10 particular lot all except this parcel is shown on this map 11 the . 83 acres would be released from the mortgage as a 12 practical matter if they came in and get 83 one hundredths 13 feet more. 14 I am sure the Trust Company is not going to act 15 at all. The only problem is sending it back to the 16 surveyor and additional cost . 17 CHAIRMAN MAY : I think, personally , let ' s have a 18 motion, unless John is going to object. 19 MR. BARNEY: No, not at all . It ' s your 20 discretion. 21 CHAIRMAN MAY : Somebody make a motion and in 22 consideration for something for access . 23 MS. LANGHANS : I ' ll do the draft resolution . 24 (Draft resolution read) Town of Ithaca Planning Board 51 1 CHAIRMAN MAY; Do we have a second? 2 MR. KENERSON : Second . 3 CHAIRMAN MAY : All those in favor say aye 4 (All say aye) 5 CHAIRMAN MAY ; Opposed or abstention? 6 ( No response) 7 CHAIRMAN MAY: So moved. 8 WHEREAS : 9 1 . This action is the subdivision of a 10-acre 10 parcel, located at 130 Ridgecrest Road, Town of Ithaca, Tax 11 Parcel No. 6-45-1-13 , into two lots of . 83 and 9 .17 t 12 acres , respectively . 13 2 . This is an Unlisted action for which the Planning 14 Board has been legislatively determined to act as Lead 15 Agency, and for which a Short Environmental Assessment Form 16 has been completed and reviewed at a Public Hearing on 17 October 21 , 1986 . 18 3 . A recommendation of a negative determination has 19 been made by the Town Planner , conditional upon the 20 provision of access to adjacent lands if the parent parcel 21 is further subdivided . 22 THEREFORE, IT IS RESOLVED 23 1 . That the Planning Board shall act and hereby does 24 act as the Lead Agency for the Environmental Review of this Town of Ithaca Planning Board 52 1 action. 2 2 . That this project is determined to have no 3 significant impact on the environment and a negative 4 declaration of environmental significance shall be and 5 hereby is made conditional upon the provision of access to 6 adjacent lands if the parent parcel is further subdivided. 7 CHAIRMAN MAY : Okay . Now, let ' s look at the 8 draft resolution for the subdivision. 9 MS . GRIGOROV: I ' ll move that one . 10 MR. BARNEY: Same modification? 11 CHAIRMAN MAY : Yes . 12 WHEREAS : 13 1 . This action is the subdivision of a 10-acre 14 parcel, located at 130 Ridgecrest Road , Town of Ithaca Tax 15 Parcel No. 6-45-1-13 , into two lots of . 83 and 9 .17 acres, 16 respectively . 17 2 . The Planning Board on October 21 , 1986 , reviewed 18 the Short Environmental Assessment Form for this proposed 19 subdivision and made a determination of negative 20 environmental significance, based on certain conditions . 21 3 . The Planning Board at a Public Hearing on 22 October 21 , 1986 , reviewed the following : (a) "Map of 23 Survey, House Lot Parcel , Lands of Zelaway R. Sawyer , Jr . , 24 Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York , " dated July 30 , Town of Ithaca Planning Board 53 1 1986 , revised October 16 , 1986 , by Robert S . Russler , Jr . , 2 L. L. S. (b) "Map of Survey, Lands of Zelaway R. 3 Sawyer , Jr. , Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York, " 4 dated August 24 , 1985 , by Robert S . Russler , Jr . , signed 5 and sealed by R. L. MacDowell, Jr. , L. S . 6 4 . It is in the interest of orderly potential future 7 community development that access be provided to adjoining 8 parcels in any future subdivision of the parent parcel. 9 THEREFORE, IT IS RESOLVED: 10 1 . That the Planning Board waive and hereby does 11 waive certain requirements for Preliminary and Final 12 Subdivision Approval, having determined from the material 13 presented that such waiver will result in neither a 14 significant alteration of the purpose of subdivision 15 control nor the policies enunciated or implied by the town 16 board . 17 2 . That the Planning Board grant and hereby does 18 grant Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval to this 19 subdivision, as presented on the material described above, 20 conditional upon the provision of access to adjacent lands 21 if the parent parcel is further subdivided. 22 MR. BAKER: Second . 23 CHAIRMAN MAY: All those in favor say aye. 24 (All say aye) Town of Ithaca Planning Board 54 1 CHAIRMAN MAY : Opposed or abstention? 2 (No response) 3 CHAIRMAN MAY: So moved. 4 (Adjourned at 9 : 30 PM) 5 - - - - 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 J TOWN M A,rm 126 EAST SENECA STREET I X H 161 T..- MiACA,NEW YORK 14850 MEMORANDUM TO: Tompkins County Realtors FROM: Andrew Frost, Town of Ithaca Building Inspector and Zoning Enforcement Officer RE: Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance DATE: October 13 , 1986 On August 18, 1986 1 became the Town of Ithaca ' Building Inspector/Zoning Enforcement Officer. Since that time I have received numerous telephone calls , which are always welcome, from realtors, property owners, and prospective buyers with questions pertaining to permitted uses, certificates of occupancy, lot size requirements, and other zoning matters. The intent of this memorandum is both to introduce myself and to address a few basic items, although not to go into the details of the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance. If you do not have a copy of this Ordinance, I encourage you to stop by Town Hall and obtain a copy, along with a Zoning Map. The cost is $1.60 for both the Ordinance and the Map. Zoning regulations are varied and include, although are not limited to, topics such as permitted occupancy regulations, lot size requirements , setbacks, accessory uses, accessory buildings , and non--conforming uses. Property owners who intend to construct new houses or structures , build additions, or make renovations or conversions, will also need to obtain building permits prior to the start of such construction. The main focus of the Ordinance is to protect and promote the health, safety, and general welfare of the community. If you would like to request a Certificate of Occupancy from this office, you may do so by making your request, in writing, accompanied by the $15 .00 fee. Upon receipt of your request and prior to the issuance of any certificate, record research and a site inspection will be performed. For older buildings, however , I will not certify that the building meets the New York State Uniform Fire Prevention and Building Codes. In some cases, this may also include newer buildings, depending upon records the _ are filed in Town Hall. Certification with respect to compliance with the terms of the Zoning Ordinance may occur irrespective of the age of the building providing that such terms are met. Tompkins County Realtors -2- October 13, 1985 Otherwise, the property owner may appeal to the Town of Ithaca Zoning Board of Appeals. I have received a few questions from new property owners who intended to use their property for purposes other than those permitted under the terms of the Zoning Ordinance. I encourage you to familiarize yourself with current Town zoning regulations and share these with prospective buyers, or, to call me if you have questions including, for example, exactly what zoning district a particular property falls within. I look forward to my association with you. AF/nf to / 5Srz e e / N Na ti 101, m La N O D N P3 al W O D " �4 fsa 2L7' � N ca T 100 �+ o /O v J� Of•,5p' 1 / tOZ ifs 0 CJJ � - 200 S 145 %20.43 / o W CA o n w / rs2 0 �r / fi0 0. 3 l • ' y Icni N � /I cn IIs II n N 0) I ISO n N ~ _ / o y a N 3 `as , n iV �m II * ry f o � •_ Gj ztr n N W C I S'u 33y 92 C" �� o s+• M�j�RN��C w w y 14O w (� f � n � IOp 06 FU 41 I . n 1 l� '! 0 m iyt. .7 i y � Idt V e+ a 141. W ..r. �»aY�r''3i 5- 4 rKv,o Vol'-I- %20 Q a I i i i -- - + 3 - u I-r i • K ^ly ` r i 1 E s V 1 = 1r� 1 II � S 1 4 l v = " I - 3 J F ti ' V 1 a i 1 1 1 i 1 1 y 1 � r 4 F f 1 � �I 1 �_• � �� .. � .ter � � q' q 0 � � V 2 x t F _N ti L n o o 1 I 1 1 s i al , T 1 .. 1. r e � ® 4 I 1 M I 1 y Z I dk t 1 V 1 W �L 2 �1 a I 1 1 k I:poil , 1 I 1 d 4 I • •l� rl�r 1.-. u w Q Q � �__ -l1 �` 4 M I .1 lj4 t .jai•M- � •�+�! � V �.�,. �k �. \ t.F^ j}F � a .��1= �� ��; ��� ,� � ti a � ,_ � � a _1�� IN :3 �I .� � �I IW Q If � I � M ..� I �..�.. �..� 1 �I«- � � ��s N � = � w IO I I ; � � I ZI + � I .6� -- l � '` � I � u .� l � .s�� i I { .w u, � _I II I { �� _ _ I � .�' I V� �l I � ` 1 �I i e � "�! �+ .x M i i � �� � s ._.... .._... � Z .__—�. .__ _L• 14•16-4(11851—Text 12 PROIECT I.D.NUMBER 617.20 Appendix C State Em wnmentet Quality Review SHORT ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT FORM For UNUSTEO ACTIONS Only PART l ftio t tetormatton RQ be completed by Applicant or Proiect'sponsor) ' Fm-kjpajlty • 3. :rolea Name 10mi ct locaom Town of Ithaca county Tompkins i. is proposod actloec ® ric. ❑ Expansion ❑ Modificationlalteratfon S. Describe project:driefir. . Applicant intends to construct a one family dwelling on the premises . shown on the attached map . Applicant wishes to subdivide this 0 . 83 acre parcel from the 10 acres now owned by him. 6. Precise location(road intersections,prominent landmarks,etc or provide map) NE corner of Tax Parcel #45-1-13 . Subject. property is an Ridgecrest Road approximately 900• feet .south of King Road 7. Amount of land affected Initially 0 . acres Ultimately (,1 -83 acres b. Will proposed aclion comply with existing zoning or other existing land use restrictions; I ® Yes ❑ No if No.describe briefly 9. What is premwt land use in vicinity of project; ® Raid-tial ❑ Industrial ❑ Comrsserciat ❑ Agricu.twe ❑ Park?andlopen space ❑ ether Describe 10. Does a involve a"11 ftleppraval,or funding.nor►or ultimately.Iran any other sovemmental agency(Federal,state or local)j as ja He If .cs,list agertey(s)and permlVapprovals 11. Ooes any aspect of the action have a currently valid permit or approval; Cl Yes JU NO If Yes,list agency name and permitlapproval type Application for a building permit has been made. _ 12. As result of proposed action will adstins permitiapproval require modification? ❑ Yes ® No 1 CERTIFY THAT TH>~INFORMATION PROIL-OED ABOVE 15 TRUE TO T14E BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE Appl!cantlsp-- name Zelaway R. Sawyer, Jr. . October 9 , l 86 Date: ��!Pfj lip S. Winn, Attorney Signature• It the action Is In the Coastal Area, and you ar© a state agency, complete the Coastal Asseasment Form before proceeding with this Assessment OVER - i PART 11 Environmental Assessment(To be completed by Agency) A Does action emceed any Type 1 threshold rn 6 NYCRR,Part 617121 It yes,coordinate the review protects and use the FULL EAF ❑ Yes )0 No 8 Will action receive coordinated review as provided for Unlisted Actions in 6 NYCRR,Part 6177/ el No,a negative declaration may be superceded by anothe, involved action ❑ Yes a No C. Could Amon result in ANY adverse effects on, to,or&mina from the following:(Answers may be handwritten,it legible) Cl. Existing air quality,surface or groundwater quality or quantity,noise levels,existing traffic patterns solid waste production or disposal.drainage or flooding problemsl Explain briefiy p potential for erosion, Not expected. C2 Aesthtitie,aaricnittaral,archedoaical,hlstoriG or other natural or Gvltund resoumar,or cc mmvmty or nciih6ortsood character)Explain briefly Not expected. C3. Vegetation or faurra,movement of fish or wildlife species,significant habitats,or threatened or endangered species)Explain briefiy; Not expected. C#. A community's existing plans or goals a:Officially adopted,or a change In use or Intensity of use of land or other natural resources)Explain briefly. Project is ,consistent with zoning and subdivision regulations, but it is recommended that access to adjacent lands be provided in any future subdivision of the parent parcel . Cs. Growth,subsequent development;or related activities likely to be induced by the proposed action)Explain briefly. Not expected, as long as such access is provided in the future. C6. Secondary,cumulative,or other effects not identified In C1-C6?Explain briefly. Not expected. C7. A change in use of either quantity or type of energy)Explain briefly. Not expected. PART 111 aetennination of Signiflcanee(To be completed by Agency) INSTRUCTIONS: For each adverse effect identified above.determine whether it is substantial, large, important or otherwise significant. Each effect should be assessed in connection with its(a)setting(i.e. urban or ruralk(b)probability ofoccurring; (c)duration;(d)irreversibility;(e)geographic scope;and(f)magnitude.If necessary,add attachments or reference supporting materials. Ensure that explanations contain sufficient detail to show that all relevant adverse impacts have been identified and adequately addressed. ❑ Check this box if you have identified one or more potentially large or significant adverse impacts which MAY occur.Then proceed directly to the FULL EAF and/or prepare a positive declaration. Check this box if you have determined,based on the information and analysis above and any supporting documentation, that the proposed action WILL NOT result in any significant adverse environmental impacts AND provide here, and on attachments as necessary, the reasons supportng this determination.- Project etermination.Project is consistent with zoning and subdivision regulations, and a negative determination is recommended , conditional upon the amendment of the survey map to show the remaining frontage on the parent parcel, and further conditional upon the provision of access to adjacent lands if the parent parcel is further subdivided. Agency Name Town of Ithaca Planning Bd. Susan C. Beeners Agency Preparers Name Preparers%gnaturerritle C+• 11/1 Town Planner pats Oct . 14 , 1986 1 - 349.°S 273 N • 3°3 1 g ' • a 2 4 3 N 4 l a v 5 x69. 1 1.3 AC 147.29 - 0 2209 . •• P 5. .� 275 ° 425 2.6 r►� 29 p - 6 16.74 AC x7s �, 1 257 • � rs o o t v� � 2$2+��•T ° • $ G7 72 7.46 9 • 27 O -10 _ � Z2 • !2 S I 25 p' 839.9 898 �00� �� C-01, j 24 + SOS °o 1 IL 10 AC- • � GQS,�2 AG• I � Zia.� 1 r1D z=5 22 w i $ECA N • eT5 ♦� 14 - $ ° 24^.5 W l _ , 21 15 2405 `C35 �� 16 n 20 m ' 222 J 19.2 - * 4 2 = m n 4 3 t lam. o � age � b � bQ � It a � � q n � Fv � a' a, � obx � � 9. ►. Zb U o� V oQ bviJu � b � wl � �I czt aIt lu g Vi 1ltt = FA rL 3 � J 5.00 Y _ 37 Sp Sµ gL 41►� GRg .,` t114DVltgh/j�� o f n 1 N Q ilk c�. 4J •2 to ho 'rr4rupttn o. IL p QWcs 99 p _ J Ck � t. U to 'o 0 a�u cn n d o0 a 3 0 IL a Au 44 a a F p � �i o d a�D Q a! ,no F- 0 0 to 3 � cs. 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I /rMYY]EY 1 i�ry� t• el •dt nn,�tw,��rM'r '^•+G bw mea 1.f TOWN OF ULYSSES %RTIN A.LUSTER,Supervisor 10 Elm Street JAMES E.VORP,Councilman MARSHA L GEORGIA,Town Clerk P.O. Box U CAROLYN J.DUDDLESTON,Councilman JAMES A.MEEKER,Highway Trumansburg, New York 14888 ROBERT A.WEATHERBY,Councilman Superintendent THOMAS F.REITZ,Councilman 607-387-5767 April 4, 1986 Ms. Susan Beeners Town of Ithaca Planning Board 126 E. Seneca St. Ithaca, NY 14850 RE: Ciaschi-Autio Subdivi�iion Dear Ms . Beener.s, The Town of Ulysses Planning Board held a Public Hearing on the Ciaschi-Autio Subdivision and heard comments from neighbors. The Board' s primary concern is in regard to the drainage situation. Presently there is an existing problem in that run-off from the Grove Road area presently runs east and north-east causing seasonal flooding problems on the properties of Jack and Magdalen Decker (9-33-3-16) and Roger Lunger (9-33-3-15) . The water flows across the rear of the Decker property crossing onto the Lunger property apparently causing extensive damage to the driveway each year. Any engineering studies should include a detailed look at the run- off for the entire final project. We are worried that these run-off problems will be aggrevated when development begins. There is also some doubt that the proposed ditching for the northern part of the project could work due to the topography. It would seem that the recommendations of a qualified engineer could address these problems and we would appreciate your expressing our concerns to whomever does this study. Inc rely, enneth Riemer - Chairman Ulysses Planning Board pm CC: Martin Luster Elizabeth Bixler County Planning [Gary Evans] File