HomeMy WebLinkAboutCOC Minutes 2018-07-25COC 2018-07-25 Pg. 1
Codes and Ordinances Committee
July 25, 2018
Members Present: Bill Goodman, Chair; Eva Hoffmann, Yvonne Fogarty, Eric Levine, and Pat
Leary Bill King – absent
Staff: Susan Ritter, Director of Planning; Chris Balestra, Planner; Paulette Rosa, Town Clerk;
Bruce Bates, Director of Code Enforcement and Susan Brock, Attorney for the Town
1. Members Comments/Concerns
Eva stated that she was concerned about the chain link fence around the horse area along Pine
Tree Rd and Mitchell St areas. The ground cover has become overgrown and looks more like a
hedgerow which one can’t see through. She also thought the weight of the vegetation might
even be making the fence lean in some areas. Her concern is that many of the neighbors enjoy
the view through the fence and that is going away. She asked if there was something the town
could do. Bruce responded that the fence itself hasn’t changed so there is no law against the
weeds or vegetation growing. He said it would not fall under our property maintenance
because it is an agricultural use which exempts it. Bruce said he could mention it to Cornell but
that is the extent of our involvement or oversight.
2. Town Noise Ordinance Discussion (Town Code Chapter 184)
Bill G gave the background on bringing this law back for review for those members not familiar
with the issues and complaints. He then asked Paulette to summarize the types of complaints
that she has heard. Ithaca Beer neighbors have complained about the outdoor entertainment.
Paulette’s neighbors have complained about noise related to a party she had in her backyard. A
resident of Eastwood Commons has complained about her neighbor’s air conditioner noise.
And there have been a few other types of complaints.
Paulette started with the Ithaca Beer outdoor music. They received noise permits the first year
that they ran their outdoor concert series, which happened a few times that year. The town
didn’t receive any complaints that year. The following year, the decision was made by the
former town supervisor that noise permits were not needed for certain events, including the
Ithaca Beer events. The year after that, Ithaca Beer asked the Town Board permission to have
weekly music events, and that’s when the complaints started coming in. Issues were then
noticed with the permit process, slight changes were made to the process itself, and noise
permits were again given. But the root problem with Ithaca Beer has been that some neighbors
living nearby do not want amplified music.
This year Ithaca Beer received a permit for approximately 12 weeks for Wednesday night dinner
music from 5-9pm. So far there have been no complaints, but Ithaca Beer changed the style of
the music to much lighter and less amplification.
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The second complaint involved a resident in the Eastwood Commons condo community who
told her adjacent neighbor that she had to turn her air conditioner off after 9pm because it was
loud. The resident used the town noise ordinance to justify the action. This resident was really
harassing the neighbor with the AC unit and both were calling the town to see what could be
done. Paulette said she then looked at the noise ordinance and found out that air conditioners
were actually listed as prohibited in our law during night time hours.
Paulette then described the next complaint: she had a small 6-person party at her house up in
the woods off of Culver Road. She had her radio on outside on the deck, but people could still
talk to each other standing within 10 feet of the speakers. The sheriff was called by a neighbor
and the officer pulled in at 8:30pm on a Saturday night. The officer could hear the beat of the
radio approximately 10 car lengths from the end of Paulette’s driveway but not at the actual
end of the driveway. The officer said the sound did not seem unreasonable nor did the time of
night and assumed it was the topography of the gorge and the valley that allowed it to be heard
down the road.
The next complaint involved a resident starting their Harley motorcycle 6:30a.m., annoying the
adjacent neighbor. The neighbor wondered if there was anything that could be done about
that. Finally, Paulette explained that her office also gets construction or garbage truck
complaints, which are routinely investigated and enforced.
Bill G noted that he believes the complaints are related to the subjectivity of what is considered
“unreasonable” noise in the noise ordinance.
The committee then discussed each of the complaints and potential solutions. Regarding Ithaca
Beer, perhaps some kind of canopy or shelter that traps the sound and reflects it back to the
stage and away from residential neighborhoods might work.
Regarding the air conditioner complaint, Bruce stating that he went to the condo and it does
sound loud (like a refrigerator), but that the air conditioning units have been there since the
building was built in the 1980’s. He thought it was unfortunate that the design has the unit
under the window of another unit. Bruce thought the inclusion in the noise ordinance was
intended for “commercial” type air conditioners that could be regulated because there are
some ways to do that with commercial systems. Residential units, whether they are whole-
house or window, don’t have as many options for muffling sound.
Discussion followed and the committee felt that residential air conditioning units should be
allowed. The law should be changed to make it clear that residential air conditioning units are
not considered unreasonable noise.
After that general discussion, Susan Brock noted that, even with the suggested change, the law
still contains a section for prohibiting “unreasonable noise,” which is generic and subjective and
an air conditioner of any type could still be complained about.
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Susan thought that there might be a way to make the law clear that some noises are not
considered unreasonable, perhaps by expressly listing what noises could be considered
reasonable, although we would have to figure out how.
One committee member suggested using times of day and decibel levels to regulate noise, as
some people simply don’t like certain noises or types of music, but that doesn’t mean they are
unreasonable and should be restricted.
The Committee then talked about applying decibel limits and discussed the history of the law
and how the town’s law used to have decibel limits, but later modified the town law to be
similar to the city’s law when they moved away from decibels. It was noted that the city has
gone back to using decibel levels and actually used a consultant to gather data.
Bill G then said that he thought the “reasonable person” standard was hard to enforce, but
Susan noted that was actually a legal standard that should stay in law. She had researched that
a bit prior to the COC meeting, and the incorporation of a “reasonable person” standard is
preferred by the courts.
Discussion followed on who determines what a “reasonable person” considers unreasonable
noise and whether it’d help to use the Sheriff’s office to enforce the law or letting issues and
enforcement fall back to using the NYS laws on the books for disturbing the peace.
To wrap the conversation up, Bill asked the COC for some guidance. The committee suggested
changing the language related to air conditioning units. The committee also suggested allowing
certain musical events without a noise permit under certain parameters. The committee
requested more information on decibel levels and how one would set those levels. The COC
also asked Susan Brock to research case law and municipal laws to figure out if there is a list of
“reasonable noises” or noises which the committee would consider reasonable.
Bill G added that the town does continue to grow and that there may be more businesses near
residential areas such as Inlet Valley and East Hill Plaza, so these situations may be coming up
more frequently.
3. Regulating Outdoor Wood Burning Discussion
Bill G explained that the COC had talked about this a few years back after receiving some
complaints from Fred Estabrook on Coddington Road. The committee looked at some
restrictions, but the offending neighbor moved and the town never moved forward with the
restrictions. The previous proposed campfire regulation included a 50’ foot setback from a
property line or 100’ foot setback from a structure for any outdoor wood burning.
Mr. Estabrook has recently complained about another neighbor, now up the street, that is
having regular outdoor campfires that create significant smoke that goes into his house and
causes breathing issues for him and his family.
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The Committee looked at an aerial photo of the properties involved in the current complaint. In
this particular instance, the previously proposed 50’-100’ setback restrictions would not have
an effect, given the size of the yard and location of structures.
Eric noted it is not fair to treat everyone that wants to have a campfire the same simply by
applying distance limitations because there are proper and improper ways to have a fire.
There’s a way to keep the smoke down. He suggested that we draft a wood burning law like the
criteria listed in the noise ordinance. He liked the “reasonable” standard used in the noise
ordinance better than any distance limitations.
Bill G responded that the problem would be the same, subjectivity: who decides if the fire or
amount of smoke is “reasonable”? Chris noted that there was an article in the Association of
Towns magazine saying that towns may have regulatory rights under NYS law. Paulette
responded that that is what we use right now and where we direct people when they complain.
There are specific limits on the size of the fires and on what can be burned. The impetus for the
NYS law was to stop garbage barrel burning, but it does restrict campfires too.
Paulette added that she canvassed the other Clerks and no one has burning restrictions and all
defer to NYS DEC regulations.
The Committee decided not to pursue this law any further.
4. Stream Setback Law Discussions of Issues
Sue Ritter explained some issues that have come up at several recent Planning Board
subdivision reviews related to applying the stream setback law to properties containing
streams.
The problem is there are requirements in the law that require property owners to show stream
setbacks on a subdivision plat at the time of application to the board instead of during a
building permit. Some subdivision proposals are simply the subdivision of land, where no
development is envisioned or proposed. When there is a very large parcel and where the
parcels being divided would have no chance of affecting the stream or the setbacks, then it
seems arbitrary, expensive, and arduous to require a property owner to hire a surveyor to
measure and flag the stream setbacks for the entire length of the stream. Sue provided a
specific recent example where a property contained more than 1,000 feet of stream that would
have to be surveyed and measured from different points, and a large part of the parcel being
subdivided was going to NYS Parks for preservation, not development. But the law requires the
setback measurements regardless.
Sue added that the concept of requiring the setbacks at time of application emerged during the
drafting of the stream setback law. The law originally required the measuring for all types of
applications. But Cornell provided comments to the committee at the time of the law drafting
and asked if they have to do that type of surveying if a building was over 1,000 feet away from
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a stream. The COC at the time decided that the time to simply adopt a distance at which point
a setback would not need to be identified for site plan review, but not for subdivision reviews.
Sue would now like to see something similar for subdivisions.
The Committee discussed some comments that came up during the Planning Board discussions
with the key one being that lots that are subdivided should clearly note the stream setback law
somewhere on the plat so future buyers know there may be restrictions.
Susan Brock noted issues with drawn boundaries that may not be simple and straight and Sue
thought there could be roughly drawn setbacks, but not the need for surveyed dimensions.
Sue thought there could easily be verbiage added to make it all clear. Susan Brock had a few
other concerns related to the law, so Bill G suggested that they work on language and bring it
back for a future meeting discussion.
5. Other Business
There will be no August meeting. Next meeting is September 12th at 5:30p.m.