HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA Minutes 1980-01-21 4D� Vi I �� I }rY�/`.
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TOWN OF ITHACA
TOWN BOARD , PLANNING BOARD , ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
J O I NT M E E T I N G
JANUARY 21 , 1980
The Town of Ithaca Town Board , Planning Board and Zoning Board of
Appeals met in working session for discussion of proposed revisions to
the Town of Ithaca Zoning Ordinance on January 21 , 1980 , in Town Hall ,
126 East Seneca Street ( second floor ) , Ithaca , New York , at 7 : 30 p . m .
PRESENT : Supervisor Noel Desch , Robert Powers , Councilman Victor
DelRosso , Councilman Marc Cramer , Councilwoman Shirley Raffensperger ,
Councilwoman Catherine Valentino , Councilman Henry . McPeak , Liese
Bronfenbrenner ( Planning Board ) , James Baker ( Planning Board ) , Montgomery
May ( Planning Board ) , Bernard Stanton ( Planning Board ) , Carolyn Grigorov ,
( Planning Board ) , Edward Austen ( Zoning Board of Appeals ) , Edward King .
( Zoning Board of Appeals ) , Jean Swartwood ( Town Clerk ) , Barbara Restaino
( Town Planner ) , Gary Evans ( Tompkins County Planning Department ) , Carol
Eisenberg ( Ithaca Journal ) , Pamela Holme ( WTKO ) , John Davidoff ( WICB ) ,
Susan Myers ( WHCU ) , Nancy Fuller ( Secretary ) .
Mr . Robert Powers , Past - Chairman of the Town Codes and Ordinances
Committee ; led the discussion .
Mr . Powers ' opening remarks covered what had been covered at the
Joint Meeting in November 1979 , noting that discussion had progressed
to Section 6 . on page 18 .
Mr . Powers pointed out that paragraph 3 on page 19 sets forth a
requirement that pasture area must be provided if one wishes to keep
a horse - or horses . Mr . Fabbroni ' s challenge of allowing farms with
animals in R - 9 and R- 15 and possibly R - 30 was noted .
Mrs . Raffensperger inquired if horses are to be kept so many feet
from a lot line . Mr . Desch pointed out that paragraph 7 on page 20 sets
forth a 30 foot distance from lot line requirement .
Continuing on , Mr . Powers turned to Section 7 ( Building and
Other Structural Regulations ) , page 20 , commenting that the Committee
tried to be consistent . Mr . Powers pointed out the square footage re -
quirement for one - family dwellings in R- 30 , R- 15 , R - 9 being proposed by
the Committee as 720 sq . ft . Mr . Powers commented that the Committee was
told that this is the smallest mobile home generally being sold , adding
that 720 sq . ft . is somewhat of an arbitrary figure but , nonetheless ,
arrived at after investigation .
In sub- paragraph " b " on page 21 , Mr . Powers noted , a 360 sq . ft .
dwelling . unit is set forth as a minimum requirement for one unit in a
two- family dwelling , with the total dwelling required to be not less than
1 , 200 sq . ft . Mr . Powers pointed out that the 360 sq . ft . figure is the
smallest size in multiple and ; if that is correct there - - why not here ?
Mr . Powers noted that paragraph 2 on page 21 is the same as the
68 ordinance .
Referring to paragraph 3 on page , 21 , Mr . Powers noted that the
Committee had added measurements as well as stories .
Joint Meeting ( Tn . Bd . , P1 . Bd . , Zon . Bd . ) 1 / 21 / 80
Page Two
Mr . Desch noted that Mr . Fabbroni had suggested 30 feet as the
height maximum for habitable space , rather than 26 feet as proposed by
the Committee .
Mrs . Restaino stated that she thought that 30 feet is a little more
reasonable . Mr . Powers commented that a lot of people say that too . Mr .
Desch noted that Mr . Fabbroni also suggested that the maximum height for
an accessory building be 22 feet , rather than 18 . feet . Mr . Powers stated
that these . numbers are all subject to change , and pointed out that both
stories and height were recommended .
Mr . Powers pointed out that on page 22 , Section 8 , paragraph 1 , lot
dimensions are the same as both the 176 and the ' 68 ordinances , but R- 9 '
is back in .
Mr . Powers turned to . page 24 , paragraph 5 , Parking requirements , and
stated that the Committee had tried to address the problem of parking .
space in one and two family residence zones . Continuing on with this
paragraph ( 5 ) , Mr . Powers noted , on page 25 , sub - paragraph " c " which he
read out loud , as follows : " All parking areas must be paved or graveled ,
drained , maintained and provided with. readily accessible driveways . Open
parking areas for 5 cars or more must be landscaped and screened from
adjoining streets . No parking area shall be permitted in any required
minimum front yard except upon the Special Approval of the Zoning Board,
of Appeals . Mr . Powers then noted specific instances in recent years
which brought this up , being that of parking on the front lawn of certain
areas , e . g . , Snyder Hill Road . Mr . Powers stated that the Committee is
trying to tighten this up a little bit . He said that their biggest co.
cern is that they do not mean to say that one cannot park in one ' s fro 4
driveway . He asked those present to please look at this carefully . Mr .
Fabbroni ' s question of whether front yard or edge of shoulder was meant
was noted . Mr . Desch suggested adding the words " and properties " to the
second sentence in this sub = paragraph " c " , so that it ' would read : " Open
parking areas for 5 cars or more must be landscaped and screened from
adjoining streets and properties . "
Mr . Powers agreed that . this sub - paragraph ( c ) needs improvement .
Mr . May wished to discuss paragraph . 3 on page 21 again , stating that
both the structural heights are unreasonable .
Mr . Powers stated that he thought the time to do- that is when the
Planning Board and the Town Board disect this draft . He stated that at
this point he , on behalf . of the Committee , is trying to convey information
to the . Boards members and point out that a change was made here , a change
was made there . He suggested that if any Board member wishes to make
a change , he or she should think about it , and present those changes to
Mrs . Restaino .
Mrs . Valentino said that she was not sure she understood the process ,
and asked if after this meeting the draft goes back to the Committee . Mrs .
Restaino stated that that was the case , adding that different . opinions
from many people as to height , for example , will come through and it w!
become clear that it should be changed . She stated that then she will
incorporate the changes into the draft and go over this with the Commit
and then it will go to the Attorney .
Mr . Powers stated that the Committee felt that it would be a good
idea for the Town Board , the Zoning Board of Appeals and the Planning
Board to have some impression as to the thought process that went on when
V . Joint Meeting ( Tn . Bd . , Pl . Bd . , Zon . Bd . ) 1 / 21 / 80
Page Three
the Committee did the revisions . He stated that each of these Boards
should individually , or collectively , go over this draft and , at that
time , dot the is and cross the is - - right now we are indicating
concepts .
Mr . May commented that what Mr . Powers is really saying is that no
particularized input is wanted at this meeting . Mr . Powers agreed that
not a whole lot should be indicated at this point . Mr . Desch added that
comments should go to Mrs . Restaino in writing .
Mr . Powers said that he thought we should go through the whole draft
fairly rapidly so that concepts are understood . Mrs . Bronfenbrenner
commented that this should be done before Mrs . Restaino makes the correc -
tions . Mr . Powers agreed .
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that she thought that the " intent " is
needed before any of the Boards get this draft - - or " purpose " , whatever
it is to be called .
Mr . Powers stated that if it is the consensus that those present
. want to stop and dot is and cross t ' s , that is fine .
Mrs . Valentino stated that she thought that in certain cases we
can arrive at a general consensus . She said that that would save time ,
though it may take more time right now , but on some of . these .. issues . we
might already have an idea .
Mr . Desch pointed out that Mr . Fabbroni has set forth his rationale
for his 30 - foot . and 22 - foot height recommendation in his report to Mrs .
Restaino to which we have . been referring , that rationale being on page 5 .'
of his report under item #26 and # 27 . Mr . Desch asked if anybody had any
objections to that . Mr . Desch stated that he would certainly endorse 22
feet for accessory buildings .
Mr . Powers pointed out the gray area of low side vs. . high side . Mrs .
Restaino suggested calling a basement a story and have that included in
the definition , adding that that would set your limit for the three
stories and you could still use your 30 feet . Mr . Powers noted that Mr .
Fabbroni is talking about a two - story building plus basement . Mr . Powers
posed the question - - if you are on a hillside , at what point do you make
your measurements , and , is a basement a story ? It was noted that a
" story " has been defined and precludes a basement .
Mr . May wondered if all buildings over 26 feet were undesirable ,
pointing out that there are a lot of them . Mr . Powers said , not at all ,
and added that the intent was three stories from the main floor level and
then to calculate how high is a story . He noted that a basement for
living is 716 " .
Mr . Desch noted that it looks like Mr . Powers was right . ; we are not
going to resolve it .
The discussion moved on to Article V . Multiple Residence Zone ( R2 ) .
Mr . Powers commented that this portion shows the need for a comprehensive
plan . Mr . . Powers stated that this has been a very controversial concept
for a number of years , noting again that it is necessary to develop a
comprehensive plan .
Mrs . Raffensperger asked if , in the other zoning ordinance , there
were any criteria for multiple residence zones . Mrs . Restaino stated that
Joint Meeting ( Tn . Bd . , Pl . Bd . , Zon . Bd . ) 1 / 21 / 80
Page Four i"
she did not think so .
Mr . Powers stated that . the Committee did give a good deal of time
. to percentage density concept and added that it was not their intent t
shut down the percentage density concept , but they were not prepared to
handle the whole thing until they had a basis .
Mrs . Restaino stated that it would . be more appropriate in a plan as
a guide and _ not . in the zoning ordinance which is law , not policy .
Mrs . Raffensperger pointed out that she has read among her papers
on the zoning ordinance , undated material referring to intent , neigh -
borhood character , welfare , etc . She asked if the Committee left that
all out on purpose .
Mr . Powers commented that that applies , really , to all zones .
Mr . Desch wondered why that would not be in the purpose . Mrs .
Raffensperger stated that she was told it would be in a purpose in
each section , and added that it must be one place or the other .
Mr . Powers stated that he thought that it would be a good idea to
put that in an extended purpose for this section .
Mr . Desch asked that those present look back on page 17 , wherein
sub - section " a " sets forth criteria for residences . He stated that that
is probably what people have in mind .
Mrs . Restaino stated that there is no reason why we could not inc
porate these sort of requirements in multiple . Mrs . Bronfenbrenner add ,
and business , as well
Mr . May wondered why the Committee had accepted a 360 sq . ft . dwelling
unit . here ( sub - paragraph " a " , page 26 ) and required 720 sq . ft . in mobile
home zones .
Mr . Powers pointed out that the 360 sq . fte refers to a unit with no
separate bedroom and stated that the Committee felt it was acceptable for
an apartment . He commented that a freestanding 360 sq . ft . unit is pretty
small .
Mr . May said that he thought that one would have . trouble ' defending
360 sq . ft . as okay and 720 sq . ft . as being required .
Mrs . Restaino commented that any new mobile home park would meet the
newer requirements .
Moving on to Article VI , Mobile Home Residence Zoine . ( R3 ) , page 30 ,
Mr . Powers stated that it may . not be necessary to have this , but the
Committee thought they should write it in . He stated that it is modelled
after Broome County ' s ordinance and noted that this Article . took a very
long time .
Mr . Powers noted that Section 15 on page 31 , paragraphs # 1 and # 2A
set forth minimum area requirements of 25 acres - = 25 acres minimum si
area for an R3 Zone and 25 acres minimum size area for a mobile home
park . Mr . Powers noted that you may have an R3 Zone which is 150 acres
or 26 acres . Mr . Powers added that there are other permissible uses in
R3 than mobile homes .
Joint Meeting ( Tn . Bd . , Pl . Bd . , Zon . Bd . ) 1 / 21 / 80
Y: Page Five
Mr . Powers stated that under paragraph 3 on page 32 , 15 , 000 sq . ft .
is required for a mobile home on an individual lot , noting that this is
. larger than the requirement for a lot in R9 .
Mr . May stated that this is unrealistic when you say people can
build a home on 9 , 000 sq . ft .
Mr . Stanton commented that R9 zones are meant to be more high - density
areas .
Mr . Powers stated that 15 , 000 sq . ft . was not accidental .
Mr . Powers pointed out that sub - paragraph " e " on page 34 shows the
same 26 - foot height requirement that has been discussed .
Mr . . Powers pointed out that the requirements for streets , etc . ,
which are set forth on page 35 , are from a model ordinance . . Mr . Powers
. commented that open space requirements set forth on page 37 were the
Committee ' s own requirements .
Continuing on to Article VII , Business Zones ( B - 1 ) , ( B - 2 ) , page
39 , Mr . Powers stated that there were fairly substantial changes in this
area . Mr . Powers pointed out that some neighborhood businesses are
permitted .
Mr . Desch asked how one would accomplish paragraph 3 on page 42 .
Mrs . Restaino stated that that is a difficult one , but the Committee
wanted to include it .
Mrs . Raffensperger wondered why there were only two kinds of busi -
ness zones . . Mr . Powers asked if she were thinking about size
Mrs . Raffensperger replied , size and use . She stated that by having
B- L and B - 2 you are eliminating criteria - - for example , service stations ,
is compressed .
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that the Committee was trying to cut down
the confusion .
Mrs . Raffensperger stated that she thought that B - 2 is an awful
big category , adding that she was considering impact on existing facili -
ties and possible expansion .
Mr . Powers asked Mrs . . Raffensperger if there were a third category ,
would it be smaller or larger than B - 2 . Mrs . Raffensperger responded , .
larger than B- 2 .
Mr . Powers asked what there is in this revision which would not
handle . . a hotel , as an example - - or a skating rink - - or a bowling alley ?
Mr . Desch asked where one would put a regional shopping center -- in B- 2 ?
Mr . Powers replied , yes , in B- 2 .
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that she thought there should be a separate
category for regional facilities .
Mr . Powers stated that this matter is handled in the review process .
He added that if you make a relatively simple document , but make a sub -
stantial review process, you can control this .
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner stated that the only control the Board really has
Joint Meeting ( Tn . Bd . , Pl . Bd . , Zon . Bd . ) 1 / 21 / 80
Page Six
in shopping centers such as ' East Hill Plaza is the parking requirements .
Mrs . Valentino stated that this is a very serious question . She
pointed out that there were - no . criteria . during the period of the appro4
process for East Hill Plaza . There was no way we could put limitations
on this , no past experience , nothing in writing .
Mrs . Bronfenbrenner suggested an approach might be through occupancy
regulations , size , etc .
Mr . Powers stated that B - 1 zones have built in physical limitations ,
but that he can see the concern for B - 2 .
Mr . Stanton pondered the question of ending up with limitations in
B - 2 not specifying regional shopping centers - - - perhaps the way to go
would be to have separate requirements for them .
Mrs . Raffensperger stated that there has to be some way to regulate
those B - 2s that may be in operation now - - every . expansion: _ and continued
use has to be of concern .
Mrs . Restaino suggested that rather than limiting type of use , we
should perhaps limit intensity .
Mrs . Raffensperger stated that basically the old zones seemed to
have correlation between type of use and traffic generation .
Mr . Powers stated that the Committee spent considerable time in
trying to avoid a lengthy shopping list , and , . in doing this , we create *
the kind of circumstances of which you are speaking .
Some discussion ensued with - reference to paragraph 5 on page 41
where additional business or light industrial uses is set forth . The
questions remains as to whether " light industrial uses " should be in or
out .
Discussion moved on to Article VIII , Light Industrial Zone ( I - 1 )
which commences on page 45 .
Mr . Desch pointed out that in sub - paragraph " d " on page 462 it is
stated that " No waste may be burned on the premises . " . He suggested that
that might be out of date . Mr . Powers agreed that that was a good
thought .
Mrs . Fuller expressed concern about the " unrelated which " in . the
"Purpose " section ( 25 ) , page 45 , and was asked to fix it up .
Mr . . Powers pointed out that Section 29 , paragraph 1 , page 47 , " Noise "
is from a model ordinance . Mr . May was concerned with the use of - the
word " objectionable " . in the second sentence of that paragraph , indicating
that such a description of noise is really just a catch- all phraseology ,
rather than a definition . He wondered how it could be defended . Mr .
Powers agreed that it would be difficult defending " objectionable "
noises when the chart follows indicating maximum . permissible sound
pressure levels . Mr . Powers noted that you may have noises that are
defined and may be determined to be objectionable .
Mr . McPeak stated that audible range has been defined . Mr . Powers
disagreed .
Joint Meeting ( Tn . Bd . , P1 . Bd . , Zori . Bd . ) 1/ 21 / 80
Page Seven
Mr . McPeak stated that he was talking about radiation frequency - -
the FCC regulations - which have been set forth on a graph as of 1978 .
Mr . McPeak noted that a shop running RF generators would wipe out every -
one ' s TV for a half a mile or so . Mr . McPeak referred again to the
FCC regulations and jurisdiction and pointed out that if the Town licensed
a business it would have a problem regulating this . He wondered what we
would tell them . He said that this is a problem rearing its head more
: and more . He noted that RFI , Radio Frequency International does not get
into the health range until it gets beyond a certain level .
Mr . - Powers stated that this is a point well taken . Mr . Powers
commented that he has never seen it in an ordinance .
Mr . Powers . continued and noted that there is a change from the
168 ordinance having to do with " smoke " . Paragraph 2 on page 48 refers
to the DEC thresholds .
Mr . Powers added that paragraph 3 on page 48 , " Odors " may change
according to DEC thresholds also .
Discussion moved on to Article IX , Heavy Industrial Zone ( I - 2 ) ,
page 51 . Referring to Section 33 , paragraph 4 , page 51 , Mr . Powers
wondered if the inference there is that one cannot have a guardhouse
in any other place . Mrs . Restaino stated that sub - paragraph " a " should
be put in Light Industrial Zones also . Mr . Powers agreed noting that
the permission for the installation of manufacturing equipment if allowed
in heavy industrial , should be allowed in light industrial .
The last item of discussion at this joint meeting was. in connection
with the " Buffer areas " which is set forth on page 54 , paragraph 4 . Mr .
May pointed out that the . 200 feet referenced could also be parking . Mr .
May commented that the buffer area could be smaller if parking were set
apart .
This joint meeting . of the Town Board , Planning Board , and Zoning
Board of Appeals adjourned at 10 : 15 p . m .
Respectfully submitted ,
Nancy M . Fuller ,
Secretary .