HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB Minutes 2012-01-17TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
215 North Tioga Street
Ithaca, New York 14850
Tuesday, January 17, 2012
AGENDA
7:00 P.M. Persons to be heard (no more than five minutes).
7:05 P.M. SEQR Determination: Krizek 2 -Lot Subdivision, 134 & 128 Poole Road.
7:05 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING: Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for
the proposed 2 -Lot subdivision located at 134 and 128 Poole Road, Town of Ithaca Tax
Parcel No.'s 28 -1 -34.19 and 28 -1 -34.9, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal
involves subdividing 0.151 +/- acres, which contains an existing garage, from the
southeast corner of 134 Poole Road (Tax Parcel No. 28 -1- 34.19), which will then be
consolidated with 128 Poole Road (Tax Parcel No. 28 -1- 34.9). Richard J. Krizek and
Janet Krizek, Owners /Applicants.
7:15 P.M. Consideration of a sketch plan for the proposed 23 -lot subdivision located off Park Lane
south of John Street, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 56 -3 -13.2, 56 -3- 13.36, and 57 -2-
1.2, Medium Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves the construction of two
new roads to provide access to 22 new residential lots and one lot reserved for
stormwater facilities. The proposed Edwin Drive is located on the west side of Park Lane
and will contain 6 residential lots while the proposed Brian Drive is on the east side of
Park Lane and contains 16 residential lots. This project was originally submitted to the
Town of Ithaca Planning Board in 2007 for preliminary subdivision approval, but did not
receive any approvals. William P. Frandsen, Owner /Applicant; Theodore E. Lauve,
P.E., Agent.
5. Nomination and Election of Vice Chairperson for 2012.
6. Approval of Minutes: December 20, 2011.
Other Business:
- Letter from Integrated Acquisition and Development.
Adjournment
Susan Ritter
Director of Planning
273 -1747
NOTE: IF ANY MEMBER OF THE PLANNING BOARD IS UNABLE TO ATTEND, PLEASE NOTIFY
SANDY POLCE AT 273 -1747.
(A quorum of four (4) members is necessary to conduct Planning Board business.)
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARINGS
Tuesday, January 17, 2012
By direction of the Chairperson of the Planning Board, NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that a Public Hearing will
be held by the Planning Board of the Town of Ithaca on Tuesday, January 17, 2012, at 215 North Tioga Street,
Ithaca, N.Y., at the following time and on the following matter:
7:05 P.M. Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 2 -Lot
subdivision located at 134 and 128 Poole Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 28 -1 -34.19
and 28 -1 -34.9, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing 0.151 +/-
acres, which contains an existing garage, from the southeast corner of 134 Poole Road (Tax
Parcel No. 28 -1- 34.19), which will then be consolidated with 128 Poole Road (Tax Parcel
No. 28 -1- 34.9). Richard J. Krizek and Janet Krizek, Owners/Applicants.
Said Planning Board will at said times and said place hear all persons in support of such matters or objections
thereto. Persons may appear by agent or in person. Individuals with visual impairments, hearing impairments or
other special needs, will be provided with assistance as necessary, upon request. Persons desiring assistance must
make such a request not less than 48 hours prior to the time of the public hearing.
Susan Ritter
Director of Planning
273 -1747
Dated: Monday, January 9, 2012
Publish: Wednesday, January 11, 2012
TOWN OF ITHACA
AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING AND PUBLICATION
I, Sandra Polce, being duly sworn, depose and say that I am a Senior Typist for the Town of
Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York; that the following Notice has been duly posted on the sign
board of the Town of Ithaca and that said Notice has been duly published in the local newspaper,
The Ithaca Journal.
Notice of Public Hearings to be held by the Town of Ithaca Planning Board in the Town of Ithaca
Town Hall, 215 North Tioga Street, Ithaca, New York, on Tuesday, January 17, 2012
commencing at 7:00 P.M., as per attached.
Location of Sign Board used for Posting: Town Clerk Sign Board — 215 North Tio ate.
Date of Posting: January 9, 2012
Date of Publication: January 11, 2012
Sawd�� (34A-4�
Sandra Polce, Senior Typist
Town of Ithaca
STATE OF NEW YORK) SS:
COUNTY OF TOMPKINS)
Sworn to and subscribed before me this 11`h day of January 2012.
nil
Notary Public
DEg,0RAH KELLEY
Notary- Public, State of New York,
No. 01 KE6025073
Qualified in Schuyler County
Commission apires May 17,,20
Wed esday, „January 11, 2012 THE ITHAJOUR AL
Town of Ithaca
Planning Board
215 North Tioga Street
January 17,.2012 7:00 p.m.
PLEASE SIGN -IN
Please Print Clearly, Thank You
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Address
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DATE Z
TOWN OF ITHACA PLANNING BOARD MEETING
Tuesday, January 17, 2012
215 N. Tioga Street, Ithaca, NY 14850
Board Members Present: Fred Wilcox (Chair), Linda Collins, George Conneman, John Beach, Jon
Bosak, Ellen Baer, David Slottje, Hollis Erb
Staff Present: Susan Ritter, Director of Planning; Bruce Bates, Director of Code Enforcement;
Creig Hebdon, Engineer; Chris Balestra, Planner; Mike Smith, Planner; Deb DeAugistine, Deputy
Town Clerk; Susan Brock, Attorney for the Town
Call to Order
Mr. Wilcox called the meeting to order at 7:02 p.m. and accepted the secretary's posting of the
public hearing notice.
AGENDA ITEM
Persons to be heard
No one came forward to address the Board.
AGENDA ITEM
SEQR Determination: Krizek 2 -Lot Subdivision, 134 & 128 Poole Road
Mr. Krizek explained that he owns two lots next to each other. He lives in one of the houses and
rents out the other. The garage, in which he stores all his equipment, is on the rental property. He
wants to sell the rental property, but keep his garage, and fasten that piece of property to his.
Mr. Wilcox asked if he could pick up the garage and move it to the property he lives on.
Mr. Krizek explained that he can't because it's on a foundation and a slab.
PB Resolution No. 2012.001: SEQR, Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval, Krizek 2 -Lot
Subdivision, 128 & 134 Poole Road, Tax Parcel No.'s 28 -1 -34.9 & 28.1.34.19
Moved by George Conneman; seconded by Hollis Erb
WHEREAS:
This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed two -lot
subdivision located at 128 and 134 Poole Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No's 28 -1 -34.9 & 28 -1-
34.19, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing 0.151 + /- acres containing
an existing garage from the southeast corner of 134 Poole Road (Tax Parcel No. 28 -1- 34.19) and
consolidating it with 128 Poole Road (Tax Parcel No. 284- 34.9). Richard J. Krizek and Janet Krizek,
Owners /Applicants, and
This is an Unlisted Action for which the Town of Ithaca Planning Board is acting in this
uncoordinated environmental review with respect to Subdivision Approval, and
Planning Board Minutes 01.17 -2012
Page 2 of 10
The Planning Board, on January 17, 2012, has reviewed and accepted as adequate a Short
Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, a Part II prepared by the Town
Planning staff, a survey map titled "Survey Map, No. 128 & 134 Poole Road, Town of Ithaca,
Tompkins County, New York," prepared by Lee Dresser, Licensed Land Surveyor with T. G. Miller,
P.C., dated 10/17/2011, and other application materials, and
The Town planning staff has recommended a negative determination of environmental significance
with respect to the proposed Subdivision Approval;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby makes a negative determination of environmental
significance for the reasons set forth in the Environmental Assessment Form Part II referenced
above, in accordance with the New York State Environmental Quality Review Act for the above
referenced action as proposed, and, therefore, an Environmental Impact Statement will not be
required.
Vote:
Ayes: Wilcox, Collins, Conneman, Beach, Baer, Bosak, Erb
AGENDA ITEM
Public Hearing: Consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed 2-
Lot subdivision located at 134 and 128 Poole Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 28 -1 -34.19 and
28 -1 -34.9, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing 0.151 +/- acres, which
contains an existing garage, from the southeast corner of 134 Poole Road (Tax Parcel No. 28 -1-
34.19), which will then be consolidated with 128 Poole Road (Tax Parcel No. 28 -1- 34.9). Richard J.
Krizek and Janet Krizek, Owners /Applicants.
Mr. Wilcox opened the public hearing at 7:07 p.m.
Mr. Bates said that Mr. Krizek would not need a variance from the Town's local zoning, but he
would need a State variance unless he either had the wall next to the property line fire rated or
moved the lot line to get an additional eight inches of setback. The State requires a setback of at
least five feet from the eaves to the property line if it's not fire rated, so he needs to shift the lot line
closest to the street to the west.
Mr. Wilcox closed the public hearing at 7:18 p.m.
PB Resolution No. 2012.002: Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval, Krizek 2 -Lot
Subdivision, 128 & 134 Poole Road, Tax Parcel No.'s 28 -1 -34.9 & 28 -1 -34.19
Moved by John Beach; seconded by Hollis Erb
Planning Board Minutes 01- 17.2012
Page 3 of 10
1. This is consideration of Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the proposed two -lot
subdivision located at 128 and 134 Poole Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No's 28 -1 -34.9 & 28-
1- 34.19, Low Density Residential Zone. The proposal involves subdividing 0.151 + /- acres
containing an existing garage from the southeast corner of 134 Poole Road (Tax Parcel No. 28 -1-
34.19) and consolidating it with 128 Poole Road (Tax Parcel No. 28 -1- 34.9). Richard J. Krizek
and Janet Krizek, Owners /Applicants, and
2. The Planning Board on January 17, 2012, has reviewed and accepted as adequate a Short
Environmental Assessment Form Part I, submitted by the applicant, a Part II prepared by the
Town Planning staff, a survey map titled "Survey Map, No. 128 & 134 Poole Road, Town of
Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York," prepared by Lee Dresser, Licensed Land Surveyor with T.
G. Miller, P.C., dated 10/17/2011, and other application materials;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED:
1. That the Town of Ithaca Planning Board hereby waives certain requirements for Preliminary
and Final Subdivision Approval, as shown on the Preliminary and Final Subdivision Checklists,
having determined from the materials presented that such waiver will result in neither a
significant alteration of the purpose of subdivision control nor the policies enunciated or
implied by the Town Board, and
2. That the Planning Board hereby grants Preliminary and Final Subdivision Approval for the
proposed two4ot subdivision located at 128 and 134 Poole Road, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel
No.'s 28 -1 -34.9 and 28 -1- 34.19, as shown on the map titled "Survey Map, No. 128 & 134 Poole
Road, Town of Ithaca, Tompkins County, New York," subject to the following conditions:
a. Submission, for signing by the Chairperson of the Planning Board, of an original or mylar
copy of the approved plat, revised to show the north /south lot line adjacent to the garage
shifted 1 foot to the west, along with three dark -lined prints, prior to filing with the
Tompkins County Clerk's Office, and submission of a receipt of filing to the Town of Ithaca
Planning Department, and
b. Within six months of this approval, consolidation of the 0.151 + /- acre parcel containing the
garage at 134 Poole Road (Tax Parcel No. 28 -1- 34.19), with 128 Poole Road (Tax Parcel No.
28 -1- 34.9), and submission of a copy of the consolidation request to the Town of Ithaca
Planning Department.
Vote:
Ayes: Wilcox, Collins, Conneman, Beach, Baer, Bosak, Erb
AGENDA ITEM
Consideration of a sketch plan for the proposed 23 4ot subdivision located off Park Lane south of
John Street, Town of Ithaca Tax Parcel No.'s 56 -3 -13.2, 56 -3- 13.36, and 57- 24.2, Medium Density
Residential Zone. The proposal involves the construction of two new roads to provide access to 22
new residential lots and one lot reserved for stormwater facilities. The proposed Edwin Drive is
located on the west side of Park Lane and will contain 6 residential lots while the proposed Brian
Planning Board Minutes 01 -17 -2012
Page 4 of 10
Drive is on the east side of Park Lane and contains 16 residential lots. This project was originally
submitted to the Town of Ithaca Planning Board in 2007 for preliminary subdivision approval, but
did not receive any approvals. William P. Frandsen, Owner /Applicant; Theodore E. Lauve, P.E.,
Agent.
Charles Guttman, attorney, William Frandsen, and Theodore Lauve were present. Mr. Lauve stated
that this project has been resurrected, and he will be addressing the outstanding engineering and
environmental issues that were left hanging a' couple of years ago. He said the essence of the design
will remain the same. The subdivision will involve both sides of Park Lane off Route 79. He
described the subdivision: Brian Drive will have 16 building lots and one lot for stormwater control;
Edwin Drive on the east side will have six lots and no separate stormwater lot. He explained how the
stormwater control will work. The original 2005 design no longer conforms to the current
regulations, so they will work with Engineering Staff to update the pond designs, environmental
controls, and green infrastructure requirements to conform to the new regulations. Once the
stormwater plan is accepted, they will submit a notice of intent to obtain a state stormwater,
discharge permit. On Edwin, which is flatter than Brian Drive, stormwater will be directed to the
bottom of the lots and intercepted by a dry swale and discharged into an existing channel on the
west side.
Mr. Beach noted that he lives further up in the neighborhood; he asked what impact the
development will have on the safety of the intersection at Route 79, Park Lane, and the entrance to
Six mile Creek Vineyard. It's already a challenge getting out of Park Lane onto Route 79.
Mr. Lauve responded that a rough estimate of an increase in traffic during the peak hour is one car
per hour per lot, for a total of 22 cars per hour, or one car every three minutes. Right now the level
of service on Route 79 is fairly good. The trouble is getting out onto the highway.
Mr. Beach said this is especially true when the winery across the street is busy.
Mr. Wilcox asked Mr. Lauve to describe the challenges of dealing with stormwater detention along
Brian Drive.
Mr. Lauve responded that they have to minimize runoff and keep it below predevelopment
conditions, and try to do it within each house site. One of the practices is to use rain gardens, which
help reduce the runoff and reduce the water quality impact. The water that does run off will be
collected in a dry swale that runs along to the bottom of the detention pond. The upper detention
pond will take the runoff from the upper lots. Both the ponds will have to be designed to reduce for
predevelopment runoff for the one -year storm, the ten -yeas storm, and the one - hundred -year storm.
Mr. Hebdon concurred.
Mr. Bosak listed his preliminary concerns, noting that he was not on the Planning Board the last
time this project was reviewed. He is concerned about the topography regarding both the access
from Park Lane and the land itself. He wondered whether a clustered development wouldn't make
more sense. He would want to take a very good look at the SWPPP. He would also be concerned
Planning Board Minutes 01.17 -2012
Page 5 of 10
about runoff that comes through from the existing developed property above. He noted the
steepness of the roads, particularly Brian Drive: stretches of that drive are almost a 12- percent grade.
He questioned what it will be like driving on that road with a coating of ice on it. A resident of John
Street told him that the existing drive up Park Lane is nasty enough that she sometimes goes around
to Honness Lane, and she has seen cars abandoned on the side of Park Road when drivers couldn't
make it up the hill. He wondered how cars and fire trucks will fare on an even steeper road under
those conditions. Since the situation is already problematic, traffic will have to be looked at
carefully. He also wanted to know how the public would access the Town park from the new
development.
Mr. Smith explained that there's an existing park at the end of each road. Tudor Park is a developed
park with a playground structure, picnic tables, etc, at the end of Edwin Drive. Eastern Heights
Park, at the end of Brian, is a large park with a playground structure, basketball court, soccer field,
and hiking/walking trails. Access to Eastern Heights Park is from above.
Mr. Wilcox noted that for larger subdivisions, the Town generally likes to set aside about ten
percent for a park or open space. He wondered whether a set -aside was needed for this development.
Since Mr. Frandsen has done previous subdivisions in this area, it's possible that they anticipated
the eventual subdivision of this acreage as well; i.e., the parks are oversized for the original
subdivision, but are commensurate for the whole buildout of the site.
To a question from Mr. Wilcox about drainage easements on Park Lane, Mr. Hebdon answered that
the Town road right of way goes from the turn from Route 79 to the top of the banks so the Town
can maintain the banks. The water from Eastern Heights comes down Park Lane and into the creek
at Six Mile Creek Winery.
Ms. Erb listed her concerns and observations. She agreed with Mr. Bosak's concerns about
steepness. She would like the applicant to be able to reassure all the John Street uphill neighbors of
the continued stability of the bank below their homes. She will also want to see all six homes on
Edwin Drive on the outline. She pointed out that Tudor Park is at the end of the East Hill Rec
Way. She thinks the peak traffic will not go down Park Lane, but up hill to Snyder Hill Road toward
the college and shopping plaza, which will save the embattled south end of Pine Tree Road. She'll
be interested in traffic counts coming onto Snyder Hill Road from Regency and Sharlene. Slope
stability is a huge issue, and she'll want to know how they will landscape those homes to protect the
slope and how they will prevent people from planting in the storm conveyance trench. She will want
to know if water is falling from the John Street residences onto this property. The steepness is
appalling -- she doesn't know where 15 or 20 cars will be parked when they can't get up the slope.
She recalled that at the last sketch plan, some members weren't convinced that C9 and C11 should
be built on with such steep approaches into the homes. She suggested those lots be used for the
residents' community parking lot, instead.
Mr. Bates stated that they will not be able to use Brian Drive as a road name; it's too closely related
to names of existing roads in the County. He also stated that they will have to meet the Town's
requirements on the turnarounds for fire protection, which are more restrictive than those required
Planning Board Minutes 01 -17 -2012
Page 6 of 10
by the fire codes. He requested that the drawings be changed to more clearly define the building lots
on Edwin Drive; the way they are currently drawn shows, them going over certain easements.
Ms. Brock asked who will own and maintain the roads and stormwater lots.
Mr. Lauve replied that the roads will be turned over to the Town upon completion of construction
and acceptance of the road by Public Works. The stormwater control facilities will be owned and
maintained by the homeowners association.
Ms. Brock asked if the Brian Drive cul -de -sac exceeds Town road standards. Mr. Hebdon said he will
check.
Ms. Brock noted that the Town usually considers slopes steep if they're more than 25 %, and
suggested that the applicant use that as their benchmark.
Mr. Smith said that at the 2007 meeting, the Planning Staff discussed using a color -coded map to
delineate different increments of slopes.
Ms. Brock noted that if the roads are going to be dedicated to the Town, they will need to be shown
as separate lots, making it a 25 -lot subdivision with 22 residential lots, one stormwater facility lot,
and two roads. Another consideration she pointed out, which the County also noted in their letter,
is whether there's a need for sidewalks and if the five -foot shoulder was enough.
Ms. Erb said a pedestrian might be safer on a sidewalk with a hard curb as vehicles slip around on
the two streets, and it would be nice to have a defined route along the two roads to the Town parks.
Mr. Wilcox responded that there's not going to be a lot of traffic on these roads, and there are no
sidewalks in the whole Eastern Heights subdivision. It's an area where you don't take sidewalks to
get from one neighborhood to another; a paved shoulder might be reasonable.
Ms. Erb said that another issue is convenient and safe access to the bus route. She'd like them to
define the bus route through the neighborhood.
Mr. Hebdon noted that there have been changes in the procedure since the last time the applicant
came before the Board. After preliminary site plan approval, the roads and water and sewer go to
the Public Works Committee. After they make a recommendation to the Town Board to accept
them in concept, the project comes back to the Planning Board for final site plan review. The idea is
to allow the Town Board to look at the plan before anything gets built.
Mr. Wilcox invited the public to address the board.
Linda Hoffman, 17 John Street, stated that drainage is of great concern to neighbors on John Street,
so it was very satisfying to have heard the Board discussion on this topic. She said that the lots are
going to be individually owned, so there will be no control or approval over landscaping. The
stormwater facility will be maintained by the association. She pointed out that there is a covenant
Planning Board Minutes 01 -17 -2012
Page 7 of 10
on John Street that came with the abstract, and she does not know how it is legally enforced. The
covenant says that the property can't be developed for less than $125,000, which is inadequate for
today's standards, and mentions nothing about drainage and landscaping. People buying lots in the
new subdivision will need to be informed that there's a fee related to maintaining the facility.
Neighbors on John Street are also concerned about the value of their homes. She wondered what
value will be required to build a home on the new lots and how that will impact the value of their
homes on John Street. She thanked the Board for the park system. On the end of the John Street
cul -de -sac is a beautiful wide trail that goes up into the park and links into the upper area and into
Tudor. It would be lovely to also provide a link for the people who reside on Brian. She said this
subdivision will change the bird life and wildlife in the area; it would be wonderful to find a way to
minimize that. She noted that a few years ago the Town put a new road surface on John and Park
streets to provide more traction. The neighbors didn't like it because it kept shedding and was
granular and dogs got it in their paws. Traction is an issue. Park can be a slippery slope, and it can
sometimes be difficult to stop when entering onto Route 79. She said that turning left onto Park
from Route 79 is a nightmare. She is very concerned about their view, which is spectacular. The
neighbors hope they can maintain the value of their properties on John Street.
Victor Dillard, 15 John Street, stated that turning left off Park Lane onto Route 79 is difficult with
traffic coming in both directions at 55 mph. He is also concerned about drainage: water flows
towards Route 79, and there has been no control of water as it leaves their yards and approaches
this parcel. He wondered how they will control water, not only on those sites, but also the flow of
water from John Street to the site.
Ms. Erb responded that the Town Attorney will review the draft homeowners association
documents. There will be heavy contingencies about maintenance clauses for stormwater facilities,
including the right of the Town to inspect them and step in and charge the association, if needed.
She doesn't think the Board is legally allowed to consider views from private property - when they
do a viewshed analysis, they're supposed to look only from public spaces, not private spaces.
Mr. Bosak voiced concern about how things like this are maintained, because in the last few years,
so many homeowners associations [in the nation, not in the Town] have gone belly up. He also
wondered how there will be enough funds to maintain the infrastructure if only a few units are sold.
Ms. Brock stated that she was not sure that the Board can't look at any aspect of visual impact - they
do look at impacts on the character of the neighborhood.
AGENDA ITEM
Nomination and Election of Vice Chairperson for 2012
PB Resolution No. 2012.003:Nomination and Election, Planning Board Vice Chairperson 2012
Moved by George Conneman; seconded by John Beach
RESOLVED, that the Town of Ithaca Planning Board does hereby nominate and elect
Hollis Erb as Vice Chairperson of the Planning Board for the year 2012.
Planning Board Minutes 01 -17 -2012
Page 8 of 10
FURTHER RESOLVED, that said election shall be reported to the Town Board.
Vote:
Ayes: Wilcox, Collins, Conneman, Beach, Baer, Bosak, Slottje
AGENDA ITEM
Approval of Minutes: December 20, 2011
PB Resolution No. 2012.004: Minutes of December 20, 2011
Moved by Fred Wilcox; seconded by Hollis Erb
WHEREAS, the Town of Ithaca Planning Board has reviewed the draft minutes from the meeting
on December 20, 2011; now therefore be it
RESOLVED, the Town of Ithaca Planning Board approves the minutes, with corrections, to be the
final minutes of the meeting on December 20.
Vote:
Ayes: Wilcox, Collins, Conneman, Beach, Bosak, Slottje, Erb
Abstentions: Baer
AGENDA ITEM
Other Business
Letter from Integrated Acquisition &. Development (IAD) - dated Dec. 22, 2011
Mr. Bosak, Ms. Erb, and Mr. Beach were of the opinion that the minutes of the meeting in question
(Dec. 20) speak for themselves.
Mr. Slottje stated that his view is that the letter does not, in any way, accurately reflect what
happened at the meeting. He would not like someone who was not in attendance to think that the
letter was accurate. In his view, there was an affirmative misrepresentation by the applicant about
what was happening, and it went right to the foundation of what the Board was talking about. Mr.
Slottje said he has at least as much experience, in terms of years, in the commercial real estate
business as their entire shop, and it is beyond his belief that anyone in that business, which is
notoriously rough and tumble, could possibly be as offended as the writer claims to have been by
what happened at the meeting. What he thought happened was that IAD, by their own admission, .
did not advise the applicant that it's not their project. He did not know why IAD's representative
attended the meeting -- whether they were asked by the developer to be there or they wanted to
develop a relationship with the developer. However, given that the applicant affirmatively
misrepresented what was going on, Mr. Slottje thought IAD was embarrassed by what happened and
was trying to make it look like the Board [sentence not completed]. Normally he would agree with
other Board members and let the minutes speak for themselves, but he hated to have this
unchallenged in the record because he thinks it's inaccurate.
Planning Board Minutes 01 -17 -2012
Page 9 of 10
Mr. Conneman agreed. His point of view is that the applicant completely ignored who created the
problem, which was the City of Ithaca, and they did not make a very good attempt to find alternate
places for the workers to park.
Mr. Slottje added that they admitted subsequently that they didn't look anywhere else, with the
exception of driving by Crispell's. They started out at 100 workers, then said they're really going to
need parking for 500 people.
Mr. Conneman stated that he thought these minutes ought to note those two points, because it's
unfair to the Board. The Board did not condemn the City of Ithaca, which they could have, for
what they didn't do, and also the same with the developer in that they really didn't look for
alternatives.
Mr. Bosak asked if the minutes could be appended by saying the letter does not accurately reflect
what took place.
Ms. Collins added that the letter states that the Planning Board has no right to look in the past and
are only supposed to be looking at things that are happening at the moment. Since she's only been
on the Board for a year, she was not acquainted with anything about that site, so she was glad to
hear the discussion. She said that it's becoming clearer to her why people are on the Board for a
seven -year term: it is critically important to look at the past and to integrate that into the decision
making that's happening at any given moment. She stated that she was strongly taken aback by the
assertion that was made that is not true.
Ms. Erb added that when the Board talked about the past, it was from the point of view of wanting
the applicant to understand why the Board is very sensitive about this area. The Board prefaced the
discussion with "we're very sensitive because of things that have taken place in the past."
Mr. Wilcox said he expected the Board to be and act very civilly with the applicants, and to ask
questions and probe to get information so they can make the best decision possible. He thought
that at one point during that meeting, the room seemed like a court room, where the prosecutor was
interrogating a defendant. The sense of civility the Board should maintain was lost. For him, that
was the problem. He also blamed himself for not seeing it and stopping it or at least interjecting. He
asked Mr. Slottje to confirm that he, at one point, told the applicant he should have brought an
attorney.
Mr. Slottje responded that that is one of the places in the letter where there is an inaccuracy. He
said it in the context of when the applicant decided that it would be good for his cause to shift from
100 workers who needed parking to 500. That's when he made that statement. Mr. Slottje said that,
to the extent that all or a large portion of the prosecutorial attitude came from him, he sincerely
apologized. One of his biggest weaknesses - he can deal with people who need help, people who are
not as able as others, whether they're professionals or others - is that he has a very low tolerance for
people who lie to him. He saw that what Mr. Thurston wrote is an affirmative lie, which they
admitted as such. When someone lies, he reacts poorly. He said he thought that even the letter from
Planning Board Minutes 01 -17 -2012
Page 10 of 10
IAD is close to that, and he refused to believe that anyone in this business was as offended as Mr.
Colbert said he was - that he's never been so in 20 years.
Mr. Wilcox asserted that the Planning Board's job is not to be accusatory, but to gather information
and make a good decision within the rules in which the Board operates.
Mr. Conneman responded that the record shows that the Board members do that. There are lots of
proposals that have come to the Board which they improve; for example, Belle Sherman Cottages.
Ms. Ritter said that she agreed with Mr. Wilcox. There was conversation after the meeting where
people said it felt very uncomfortable. They were disappointed with a meanness that took place,
something she has not seen in her years working with the Planning Board. She thinks they have to
be careful as to what is okay for a Planning Board. She doesn't want to see civility to go downhill for
any reason. It's important to be very respectful.
Mr. Bosak said that, without denying the need to maintain civility, when someone comes to a
formal proceeding and says the thing that is not, and the Board knows it, it's hard to be civil. The
man said that they had carefully researched the parking areas, and it became very clear that they had
done no such thing.
Mr. Wilcox argued that their research was considered to be woefully insufficient by some members
of this Board, but from their perspective, he could argue that the applicant came in to request to use
a vacant parking lot as a parking lot. He's not arguing that they shouldn't have looked at other
locations, but the fact that they didn't look, the Board can make note of, but not accuse them of all
sorts of bad things because they didn't look at the one place the Board thought they should have.
Mr. Slottje responded that the issue is not that they didn't look. The issue is that they gave the
Board a piece of paper that specifically said they had made an exhaustive search. He apologized
again to everyone.
Planning Federation
Ms. Ritter said she received a letter from the NY Planning Federation asking her to provide Board
member names and email addresses. She will send out an email to Board members; if they want to
provide their email to the Planning Federation, they should email the information to Ms. Ritter.
Adjournment
Upon a motion by Hollis Erb, the meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
r.14 A�l
D bra DeAugist , Deputy T w Clerk